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We watch "Flashback" (S3 Ep.2)
14 Plays24 days ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Flashback”, in which Tuvok has debilitating flashbacks and we get an appearance from Captain Sulu!
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.
Theme music by Alain D
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome Back
00:00:00
Red D
I have hit the jingle. Yes, good.
00:00:02
Jamie
So, haven't started recording yet?
00:00:04
Jen
Good start.
00:00:04
Red D
Yes, we're recording.
00:00:05
Jamie
Because it hasn't come up on the top of my screen. Not that I'm trying to gaslight you.
00:00:08
Red D
Well, I feel gaslit at this very moment of time.
00:00:11
Jamie
It's something cool.
00:00:14
Red D
Yeah. You could be in a music video in your padded cell, Jamie.
00:00:20
Jen
Mm, a wrapper.
00:00:21
Jamie
Can we not start this episode with giving quite the impression that I have a padded cell in which I live? It's only in which I work. Just in case that gives away the game for where I work.
00:00:33
Red D
um Sorry, I can't hear you of the music because I adjusted something with my sound.
00:00:37
Jen
this is
00:00:38
Red D
But no.
00:00:39
Jen
Technical issue.
00:00:40
Red D
Okay.
00:00:41
Jamie
I think it's only you missing out there Red. Only you.
00:00:45
Red D
As long as the audience hears, you know, what's he repartee? Is that the same? and that
00:00:51
Jamie
Repartee believe.
00:00:52
Red D
Repartee. There we go.
00:00:52
Jamie
then yes
00:00:54
Red D
Then it's all good. Well, we know that this jingle goes on for one minute and 30 seconds, so I think I will...
00:00:59
Jamie
Really?
00:01:00
Jen
That is a long intro jingle.
00:01:00
Red D
And
00:01:00
Jamie
I think the audience want more of that rather than me. So you know there's a whole 30 seconds worth of value. Jack it back up.
00:01:08
Red D
no, but welcome back, Janie and Jamie.
00:01:08
Jamie
Jack it back up Red for heaven's sake.
00:01:12
Red D
Long time no see.
00:01:13
Jamie
Yo, yo.
00:01:13
Red D
and We had a lot of a summer hiatus.
00:01:14
Jen
Mm-hmm.
00:01:17
Jen
Holidays and various other stuff.
00:01:17
Red D
ah
00:01:19
Jamie
Have we?
00:01:20
Jen
Yeah, it's been a while.
00:01:20
Red D
I mean, not officially, but we ended.
00:01:22
Jamie
Well, I don't know. I thought you had a hiatus had to be consensual. I just thought that, you know, we'd all had random stuff put in our calendars.
00:01:30
Red D
Yeah, i think we can just say that was a hiatus. Not planned, but that's what happened. And we might have another hiatus before the end of summer, I don't know.
00:01:36
Jamie
Hmm.
00:01:38
Red D
But welcome back for Season 3, Episode 2 Voyager. We are discussing flashback.
00:01:42
Jamie
Hmm.
Recording Concerns and Listener Challenge
00:01:45
Red D
um But yes, I just want to make a note that ah for our listeners, wherever you may be, whenever you may be, Jamie is recording this from his office. So very big commitment. Thank you, Jamie. Thank
00:01:58
Jamie
I mean, given where I work, I could really do with not having that publicly recorded on the podcast in case it's ever listened to by any of my colleagues.
00:02:04
Red D
I don't know. I don't know.
00:02:08
Jamie
and Some of my previous colleagues who know it's existed, but thank thank you for that little chink in my security, Redwyn.
00:02:17
Red D
oh
00:02:17
Jamie
I'm sure it'll be fine. I intend to introduce all of my colleagues to this. However, as punishment for outing me potentially in front of world,
00:02:24
Red D
No, you can't give me punishment because I'm the moderator. So people watch what do you want to do there?
00:02:29
Jamie
Moderate this. What I'm going to do is I'm going to set ah you, myself, and our listeners a challenge. At some stage before the end of this episode of this series, I will actually commentate on a different episode to the one that you good folk have watched, and we will see if our listeners and your good selves at the end of the series can guess which episode was the one in which I was talking about a different episode.
00:02:59
Red D
Is this like the time where you just made stuff up because you hadn't watched the episode? I don't know.
00:03:03
Jamie
Oh no no no no, that neither here nor there. um That was just one time that all I'd done was read the credits, not the credits, the Wikipedia entry to see if I could pass muster, which I did.
00:03:12
Red D
The Wikipedia entry.
00:03:16
Jamie
You still have no idea which it was, but at some stage in the next season I will talk about a different episode to what you were talking about and we'll see if at the end of the season you can work out which it was.
00:03:23
Red D
Okay, good challenge.
00:03:27
Red D
That's a very complicated challenge, but
00:03:28
Jamie
right maybe Maybe we can offer our listeners a prize if they you know email in and tell us which they think it was. If we get one email, I'll be like, wow, we have fans.
00:03:38
Red D
that is a challenge. Challenge accepted.
00:03:41
Jamie
We're not allowed to you know set up a burner email address and just email us, right but yes.
00:03:46
Red D
Depends on the price.
Disjointed Viewing and Episode Summary
00:03:48
Red D
Um, well, we actually watched this episode, well, I watched this episode a week ago, think, and already am confused by my own notes, so maybe that's not going help with this challenge, but...
00:03:57
Jamie
Maybe I'm not the one who isn't commentating on this episode.
00:04:01
Red D
Yeah, but should we go to... Oh, sorry, Jenny, you sound like you want to say something?
00:04:05
Jen
I was just going to add that i watched half last week and I watched the second half today. So very disjointed. My notes are...
00:04:13
Red D
Ha ha ha!
00:04:13
Jamie
Interesting. I actually watched half last night and half this afternoon, so there's something about this one that...
00:04:19
Red D
Oh no, you're up to date.
00:04:19
Jamie
lends itself to halves and duality, which is perhaps appropriate given the dual nature of the mind meld that forms the basis of this episode.
00:04:31
Red D
That is a good point. And I'm so happy you watched it recently because I'm really gonna lean on do you guys. But Jamie, yeah so you are the most recent viewer. Would you like to give us the one minute summary?
00:04:42
Jamie
all the temptation in the world to say, what if I say no? ah So to go back and build on the theme of duality, this episode is entwined around the premise of dual repressed memories and In the journey that is taken, Tuvok, on approaching a nebula, starts to pass out and have flashbacks to a scene which we feel is from his childhood, and he passes out and he doesn't recognise the scene or the memory in which he is trying to stop a small girl from crashing over the edge of a cliff and she slips out of his hands.
00:05:25
Jamie
In a bid to reverse the process of these flashbacks, which the Doctor advises us can be life-threatening due to the unique mind of Vulcans, Tuvok undertakes a mind meld with the Captain to rationalise through and process his memories, except in spite of trying to access a hidden memory of the small girl falling off a cliff,
00:05:49
Jamie
he keeps being thrown back to a memory of his previous service in Star Trek with one Captain Hikaru, you're absolutely right but you're also absolutely wrong, Sulu, in which Sulu and Tuvok attempt to rescue a young Captain Kirk, ah and plot thickens from there as we discover that in fact The memory which triggered Tuvok was no real memory, but actually a virus generating a false memory.
00:06:24
Jamie
And the episode proceeds as we go through Tuvok's journey towards healing and recovery with the captain in his mind.
00:06:33
Red D
Oh, very good, Jamie. Very detailed. Nice, because that helped me. Because as I said...
00:06:37
Jamie
Well, typically i try and keep it down for a minute and I throw something offensive about New Yorks in there, but I feel that wouldn't help you.
00:06:43
Red D
No, that was very helpful.
Technical Difficulties and Juice Speculation
00:06:45
Jamie
I can throw something of feeling offensive about Nenix though.
00:06:46
Red D
No.
00:06:49
Red D
Well, go for it, because maybe Jenny's still sorting out her tech widely over there. Yeah.
00:06:53
Jamie
Well, I think so.
00:06:54
Jen
Right back.
00:06:54
Red D
yeah
00:06:55
Jamie
The episode posits that the transfer of the virus which planted a false memory in Tuvok was from one of his crewmates who died in his arms during the episode trying to fight the Klingons which he flashsh but flashes back to with the captain.
00:07:15
Jamie
I, however, think the far more likely culprit is the juice that we enter into the episode with Neelix forcing on Tuvok in a bid to get him to try his cuisine.
00:07:29
Jamie
I think that is a far more likely source for the virus than indeed any poor comrade who died in the line of duty with dear Tuvok.
00:07:37
Red D
Well, it did take a a long time for that virus to activate if that is the case. So maybe you have sound Jamie.
00:07:41
Jamie
Did indeed. Did indeed.
00:07:43
Red D
but speak
00:07:43
Jamie
I think it was the juice.
00:07:46
Red D
Jamie, have you just turned off your camera or are you gone?
00:07:51
Jen
I am here, i was trying to increase the connectivity by turning off my camera, which is not sure entirely working.
00:07:52
Red D
Yeah.
00:07:59
Jen
um
00:08:01
Red D
Okay, well, I guess we could also turn off our cameras. I don't know how that will go. turns off. and turns so
00:08:07
Jen
Well, I think...
00:08:08
Jamie
I'm nowhere one near as focused if I can't look at my beautiful face. so
00:08:12
Red D
and
00:08:12
Jen
I mean, you're hearing me okay, so that's a good start.
00:08:14
Red D
Yeah, hearing you're fine.
00:08:14
Jamie
Yes. Yeah.
00:08:15
Jen
And you guys have not cut out for at least 20 seconds, so it's a good sign.
00:08:19
Red D
Okay.
00:08:19
Jamie
Boom time. We're winning.
00:08:21
Jen
Where are we? What are we on
00:08:22
Red D
How do you turn off the camera? I can't even see the button to do Oh, was right here. Sorry.
00:08:27
Jamie
it's It's the one that looks like a camera.
00:08:27
Red D
Okay. Yeah. yeah
00:08:29
Jamie
If you click it.
00:08:29
Red D
Yes, I know. I've just never had to use it before on a podcast. But Jenny, I don't know.
00:08:33
Jamie
Reds got through COVID without using conference call.
00:08:34
Red D
You're all good. Haven't...
00:08:38
Red D
Okay.
00:08:39
Jamie
Outrageous.
00:08:39
Jen
on?
00:08:39
Red D
This is going to be a terrible podcast if we can't see our faces. um But, Jenny, I'm going to go to you for your first initial reaction because I think it it's about juice. And Jamie did mention juice, so it's a good segue.
00:08:52
Jen
and Yeah, I think I have, mean, half these notes, the first half of these notes were made a week ago, so you're to have to bear with me. But, you know, I've written that juice looks frigging delicious.
00:09:03
Jen
And I think what that's about is maybe I watched this when I was really thirsty. Because that, I don't know what it was, special juice that Neelix has created from some far off planet concoctions that Tuvok really doesn't want to drink. It looked so tasty. I really wanted to drink it.
00:09:21
Jen
That just me.
00:09:22
Red D
I think it is interesting when I'm looking at my notes now, I'm like, wow, you already changed the person in one week because I don't think my notes make any sense. Or have a company different opinion. It did look like good juice.
00:09:34
Red D
Maybe you were thirsty. Yeah. No, but I mean, it did look good.
00:09:37
Jen
Maybe.
00:09:39
Red D
It did look good. don't know why. ah
00:09:41
Jen
I mean, that was my initial reaction. Other than that, a nice episode, I thought.
00:09:43
Red D
Nice.
00:09:47
Jen
Quite nice. You know, solid one.
00:09:50
Red D
Great. Jamie, initial reaction?
00:09:54
Jamie
I really enjoyed this one, actually. um Yeah, it was cool. It was a bit more a personal journey, a bit more sort of Star Trek and the Klingons and spaceships.
00:10:06
Jamie
I liked it It had a simplicity to it but it didn't sort of slow down, and that was cool.
00:10:13
Red D
Nice. I'm looking at my note, which says, Rebecca, baby, which I don't know what that means.
00:10:19
Jen
Mm.
00:10:20
Jamie
We're
Tuvok's Past and Memory Themes
00:10:21
Red D
Except that... ah But maybe it's... I did watch an episode of Seinfeld recently where that line is from, so I wish I knew what I was talking about. But yes, overall I enjoyed this. It was fun to get some more backstory of Tuvok and ah Captain Sulu.
00:10:21
Jamie
back with Captain Kirk.
00:10:37
Red D
And maybe some other characters made an appearance. I kind of forgot about that, that there was that crossover in a sense. And it also just serves to remind us that Tuvok is quite old. and Like a hundred and
00:10:48
Jamie
2Vox got a past, baby. 2Vox got a past.
00:10:51
Jen
Yes, absolutely.
00:10:53
Red D
Yes, he quit Starfleet for quite a long time.
00:10:56
Jen
fifty years
00:10:56
Jamie
That wasn't what I was referring to. But anyway, yeah, carry on.
00:11:00
Red D
um Great. So moving into our kind of full-on discussion, i'm going to stick to the order that's here in the notes. So Jenny, do you want to kick us off
00:11:10
Jen
yes absolutely um I'm again, I'm starting with the notes from a week ago. So ah let's hope I I'm hoping I understand them because if I don't, that's a bad start.
00:11:16
Red D
kick us off? Don't worry. All of mine are from a week ago.
00:11:23
Jen
But I have written have all department. Don't know if this is going to make any sense.
00:11:27
Red D
Okay.
00:11:29
Jen
Have all department heads submit proposals for cerulean usage. Reminds me of how I imagined Jamie's contracted. Well, I probably shouldn't say a department
00:11:40
Jamie
you know I don't think you should.
00:11:42
Jen
Not the current one you're working at, a previous one, a certain department.
00:11:43
Jamie
hi
00:11:47
Jen
um Reviewing all the proposals and then doling out the funds to the best one. I mean, make of that what you will. Yeah,
00:11:55
Red D
So this reminded you of your daily life or Jamie's day there.
00:11:59
Jamie
I should make it sound like I just go around and throw dollars out.
00:11:59
Jen
I think, you know what? I think
00:12:01
Jamie
It's amazing.
00:12:02
Jen
um yeah think it was something about, you know, when Jane Lee was saying, oh, there's cerulean out there.
00:12:08
Jamie
Hmm.
00:12:09
Jen
Let's gather some.
00:12:09
Jamie
Hmm.
00:12:09
Jen
Plenty of cerulean for everyone. Everyone submit a proposal for using Ceruleum and i'll I'll give you some Ceruleum in engineering and use some Ceruleum in some other place, the bridge, don't know.
00:12:12
Jamie
Hmm
00:12:20
Jen
It just reminded me of proposal submissions in government departments.
00:12:23
Red D
That is a really good point. I, I've spoken at length about how Star Trek taught me about organizational organization. but And now, yes, it's an, uh, that makes sense to me, Jenny.
00:12:38
Jen
I'm glad it made sense that someone did.
00:12:39
Red D
Um, Jamie, do you, I mean, she's talking about So I'm just wondering, do you see this? Did you get the same, uh, reaction or does it make sense? The reaction?
00:12:48
Jamie
I don't know, I think it it does, but it's a bit more like the sort of hr specific ones that we used to have when we were endlessly bemoaning ah the lack of a functioning human resource department to stop, I don't know, Captain Tom, Captain,
00:13:04
Jamie
a soldier, an officer and a gentleman, Tom Paris being officer and gentleman Tom Paris in a brother in Paris in the hollow booths I sort of see slightly more parallels with that and the whole corporate I want proposals by x x time for how you use the cerulean go I quite like that as there's a bit of that that does feel like my corporate landia
00:13:26
Red D
ah nice um I don't have anything to add to that point, so I will move on to Jamie.
00:13:32
Jen
Thank you.
00:13:35
Jamie
Can I just point out, so my first point is back to the juice, as ever with my commentary. I focus on the important shit, unlike you people, you know trying to draw parallels between 21st century corporate, whichever country we happen to be in that our listeners think we're in.
00:13:53
Jamie
ah because I can't be specific in case people guess where I work. um I choose to focus on the important things. Could we take a moment to appreciate the very, one of the very first lines that Tuvok comes out with in this, in which with every every hint of emphasis, he makes a declaration of something as incredible sound like the most damning description of a potable concoction imaginable and leads me to my suspicion that the juice was actually the cause of him getting sick as opposed to the death of his crewmates 80 years or so ago.
00:14:32
Jamie
I think the fact that he says this juice is incredible cracks me up, frankly. It
00:14:40
Red D
That must have been a good line, but I don't remember it. I watched it too long ago.
00:14:43
Jamie
was the very first one.
00:14:43
Red D
But yeah.
00:14:44
Jamie
I feel like you didn't watch this, Red.
00:14:45
Jen
that
00:14:46
Jamie
Are you the one doing what I did?
00:14:47
Red D
My memory is really bad at the moment, and
00:14:49
Jamie
just reviewing an episode of Wikipedia without having watched it.
00:14:53
Red D
I have to hope it's because I'm being really busy.
00:14:53
Jen
second
00:14:57
Jen
i think I think it's because there's so many great two outlines in this one, ran that's what is.
00:14:57
Jamie
Hmm.
00:15:00
Jamie
Hmm.
00:15:01
Red D
Okay. Well, then I'm going jump in here because ah my first... note from last week when I watched the episode was I have no memory of this episode and that seems to have carried across.
00:15:10
Jamie
Hmm.
00:15:13
Jamie
Hmm
00:15:13
Red D
It took a really long time for the episode to come back, which I found interesting because normally I'm like, oh yeah, it's this one, it's that one. But but ah it's not it was not really a criticism of the episode. It's just funny that the episode that's about memory and planted memories and everything is the one that I do not remember.
00:15:31
Red D
um
00:15:31
Jamie
hmm
00:15:32
Red D
But then... as it was beginning, something splattered back and i was like, oh yeah, this must have been created around the time when this concept of suppressed memories was very popular and which I believe has now been debunked.
00:15:39
Jamie
hmm hmm
00:15:46
Jamie
oh
00:15:46
Red D
But apparently therapists all over the land were implanting memories and people, um again, not an expert.
00:15:46
Jen
Oh.
00:15:54
Red D
If you're listening, don't come for me, but and what it is just funny to watch TV from the past and see how like, don't know, like, so social trends whatever, but and new ideas impact what gets written into TV.
00:16:08
Red D
I always enjoyed that aspect.
00:16:09
Jamie
Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
00:16:11
Red D
um And yes, ah in I remember being a kid, reading all these articles in You magazine in South Africa about, oh, this therapist uncovered this memory and that memory.
00:16:11
Jamie
Yeah.
00:16:22
Jamie
yes
00:16:22
Red D
So um yes, that's all I have to say about that. Back to you. Unless anyone has a comment, back to you, Jenny.
00:16:29
Jen
Well, my it's just an amazing coincidence because my second point is all about this. um
00:16:35
Red D
Oh, good.
00:16:35
Jen
Yeah, so that was really interesting to think about actually because i didn't really I wasn't really aware that it was like a fashionable sort of pop-size trend at the time. um But I did relate it to modern day medicine.
00:16:48
Jen
So um I just, yeah, I did find the whole concept fascinating.
00:16:49
Red D
Nice.
00:16:53
Jen
um So, I mean, for me, it paralleled with PTSD where um
00:17:00
Jamie
and
00:17:00
Jen
You know, you're sort of reliving um the memory over and over again. And I thought it was really interesting.
00:17:05
Jamie
I would relive the memory of that juice.
00:17:08
Jen
Huh?
00:17:09
Jamie
I would relive the memory of that juice over and over again.
00:17:11
Red D
Yeah.
00:17:14
Jen
Yeah, I don't know. Traumatic memory repression leading to physical brain damage. I thought was a really interesting one and not so far away from reality.
00:17:21
Red D
yeah
00:17:21
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:17:25
Jen
um But I really don't know enough about neurology, ah so I'm just guessing. But I was thinking about when you have PTSD, I know that that can cause physiological changes in the brain, like the brain is plastic and learned autonomic responses.
00:17:42
Jen
So from from that angle, it's kind of ahead of its time. um
00:17:46
Red D
Yeah.
00:17:48
Jen
But ah yeah, I mean, I don't, the idea that we could lobotomize ourselves was, yeah, I mean, that is very,
00:17:53
Jamie
system
00:17:56
Jen
sci-fi and wild. I'm glad we can't do that, that I know of.
00:18:01
Red D
When you say lobotomize ourselves, you mean um remind me.
00:18:04
Jamie
We cause ourselves brain death by repressing memories.
00:18:05
Jen
I think that, so yeah, he was, um yeah, so when they thought it was a ah memory rather than a virus, um the doctor, I think that's what the doctor said, that he's basically lobotomizing himself.
00:18:08
Red D
right. Yes.
00:18:18
Jen
So, you know, by repressing this traumatic memory um and not bringing it from his own,
00:18:21
Red D
Yes.
00:18:24
Jen
conscious to his conscious and processing it is giving him brain damage, i.e.
00:18:25
Jamie
Hmm.
00:18:29
Jen
the bottomizing himself. um
00:18:30
Jamie
Hmm.
00:18:31
Red D
Yes.
00:18:31
Jamie
Hmm.
00:18:31
Red D
yeah like I just couldn't remember because, I said, my memory is so bad. ah
00:18:35
Jen
I'm amazed I did remember that to be honest. That was from a week ago that note, but i think I found it really interesting.
00:18:39
Red D
Well done.
00:18:40
Jen
so
00:18:41
Red D
Yes, I mean, you are the medical expert on this podcast, so it's always good to get your perspective. And then what did you think? I liked the fact that they take it a bit further and it turns out it's a virus actually, not this oppressed memory.
00:18:53
Jamie
you
00:18:54
Red D
That was a kind of twist.
00:18:54
Jen
Yeah, I love that twist. But it it acts like a traditional virus does, but in terms of memories. So yeah, i thought that was a little bit inspired, actually. I like that.
00:19:07
Red D
Yeah, me too. Jamie, anything to add?
00:19:11
Jamie
uh no i think you guys got it all oh sorry that was a problem i do beg your pardon
00:19:15
Red D
Brilliant. Do you want to dive into your next point?
00:19:19
Red D
No, no, it's not. I'm just trying make sure if you want to say anything about that, then we move on to
00:19:22
Jamie
Well, i to be honest, I'm picking up on this episode on a far less deep level than your good selves, because it just made me laugh a lot. I love the hint of foreshadowing from Captain Sulu, where...
00:19:31
Red D
we
00:19:37
Jamie
ah Tuvok misplays a situation in which Tuvok brings Captain Sulu some tea ah where he is in his captain's seat um and Sulu laughingly says I hope you don't think you're going to get a promotion on your first day on the watch so and Tuvok says that was the last thing I thought I thought i wasn't going to do anything of the sort and Sulu says you're going to be on this bridge, you're going to learn to take a joke, don't tell me all concerned, and have a sense of humour because I know that's not true.
00:20:10
Jamie
and then that foreshadowing shadows are one of the most hilarious lines ah in which Janeway and Tuvok subdue Tuvok's superior officer um And Janeway asks why they did that.
00:20:29
Jamie
He said, because ah ah asking female officers for their clothing this could lead to misunderstandings with a completely dead man face that just cracks me up.
00:20:40
Red D
Yes, that was... I remember all of that very clearly. That was all very funny.
00:20:44
Jen
Yeah.
00:20:45
Red D
So parts that i remember. Jenny, yeah?
00:20:49
Jen
Oh, I, I, do you know what? I, I loved all those elements you've mentioned, Toby, and, uh, I actually, the Sulu and the tea, um, I thought you were going to steal my next point because I love that scene, but there was a, there was a line, one line that came after it, which I loved.
00:21:01
Red D
Ah, yes.
00:21:06
Jen
I'm just wondering if that was the time.
00:21:08
Red D
Yeah, go for it.
00:21:08
Jamie
Yes, yes.
00:21:10
Red D
Go for
00:21:10
Jen
don't, I don't know where we are in the, in the, uh, list of terms, but, um, It was Janeway coming up afterwards, after they had that conversation about the tea and saying, never brought me tea.
00:21:22
Red D
it.
00:21:24
Jamie
And I think that's pretty sexist of Tuvot, to be honest with you.
00:21:28
Red D
Well, maybe he learned that if he tries to do anything nice to people, people will think that he's sucking up or trying to get a promotion.
00:21:34
Jamie
When did that ever stop a Vulcan?
00:21:35
Jen
Yeah, he learned his lesson.
00:21:37
Red D
which he wouldn't like. Like a colleague of mine was telling me he took a cooler bag to like an event and then he left it behind and then another colleague like collected it or brought it and then brought back to him and had like completely like cleaned it, bleached it, everything. was like, why didn't you do all that stuff? was like, well, maybe he was like, I didn't say sucking up to you. I tried to phrase it a bit better. I was like, ah.
00:22:03
Jen
Maybe he wants you on a project that's cut coming up.
00:22:06
Red D
Yeah, he's relationship building.
00:22:06
Jamie
yeah
00:22:07
Red D
Relationship building, I think.
00:22:09
Jamie
yeah
00:22:11
Red D
That's the term. Okay, well, Jamie, that was... i mean, I think we're going to whiz around today because I just know that Jamie wants to get back on a train home. So if you're happy with that as your next point, then I'll move back to Jamie for your third point.
00:22:24
Jen
That was my next point.
00:22:26
Jamie
Wait, wait, hang on, don't you have a point read at some stage?
00:22:30
Red D
Oh, that was a good point. Thank you.
00:22:34
Red D
um It was...
00:22:35
Jen
That's a good point about the points, Jamie.
00:22:36
Red D
Yes, thank you, Jamie, for keeping me on track. Well, my my brain, I'm worried. I'm going to start taking creatine. Anyway,
00:22:42
Jamie
I live for this shit. Hmm.
00:22:44
Red D
um it was really, I mean, not in a serious way, but I guess a bit unnerving to see Tuok have like what essentially was, I guess we would describe now as a panic attack because he's so, you know, he's on the bridge and he's feeling all these emotions or sensations.
00:22:58
Jamie
Hmm.
00:23:02
Red D
um And when they cut to him in his quarters and he's playing that Katara, Katara, Kathera and it really looked very unsteady so when they say or when he explains to Kez that it reflects the you know your mindset or your mental well-being whatever you like and then it crashes I think if I remember correctly you're like oh my gosh this poor guy is really being put through the ring especially for someone who
00:23:12
Jamie
Yeah.
00:23:16
Jamie
That's so harsh.
00:23:30
Jen
um
00:23:33
Red D
We all get put through the ringer, but he's not used to going through the ringer. Used to seeing him, not because he has such strict control, you know what I mean?
00:23:38
Jamie
on
00:23:43
Red D
So to see him like and losing a bit of that or experiencing something severe enough to help him lose.
00:23:47
Jamie
i I think that's just prejudice against the Vulcans. Vulcans go through the ring of two red. Vulcans go through the ring of two.
00:23:53
Red D
Yes, but they don't act like it when they're going through the ringer.
00:23:57
Jamie
I think that is offensive.
00:24:00
Red D
I think that's a dumb point.
00:24:02
Jen
that
00:24:02
Jamie
sister
00:24:02
Red D
Sorry.
00:24:03
Jamie
I think that's offensive too, and I think you should think about what you've done.
00:24:04
Jen
ah
00:24:08
Red D
But yes.
00:24:08
Jen
I think Red was making the point that you know when there's something that you associate strongly with your sense of self and your identity like Vulcans, their mind and their logic that when that goes that's even more horrifying and tragic than you know say someone who is more spiritual or superficial
00:24:11
Jamie
that's offensive.
00:24:23
Red D
Yeah.
00:24:28
Red D
Someone is always losing it. That's not going to have any impact.
00:24:30
Jen
if
00:24:32
Red D
But just to see in that situation, well, you know, I kind of spelled it.
00:24:35
Jamie
I'm just asking questions.
00:24:37
Red D
Good question. Good question. um
Humor and Personal Reflections
00:24:40
Red D
Okay. I apologize because now I have kind of screwed up the order, but I think it's good because i think we can go go back to Jemmy.
00:24:45
Jen
How could you?
00:24:50
Red D
Jemmy. Wow. Guys. Jemmy. You finally merged. It's because there's no cameras.
00:24:55
Jamie
Oh my god, we finally emerged as a celebrity couple.
00:25:00
Red D
Oh, it's Jemmy. How do you feel about that?
00:25:01
Jamie
I prefer Yarny or Jani.
00:25:04
Red D
Oh dear. um
00:25:06
Jen
It could be Jenny, could be Jimmy or Jenny.
00:25:09
Jamie
Yeah.
00:25:09
Red D
Jimmy? No, none of them sound good.
00:25:10
Jen
I don't really like either, I gotta say.
00:25:13
Red D
don't know why I said that.
00:25:14
Jamie
Yeah, Jen is.
00:25:14
Red D
Sorry.
00:25:15
Jen
Let's stick with J&J. like that one.
00:25:16
Red D
Yes.
00:25:18
Jamie
J squared.
00:25:20
Red D
ah Jenny.
00:25:20
Jamie
J two oh, okay, Jenny.
00:25:22
Red D
so On to your fourth point. Oh, yeah.
00:25:25
Jen
Right. Whizzing through, whizzing through. um I really enjoyed Sulu's acting.
00:25:32
Red D
oh
00:25:32
Jen
I did write something else in my notes, but it comes across a bit offensive. And so I i did and did add the word
00:25:41
Jamie
can't be more offensive than it already has been.
00:25:43
Jen
well, I did add the word over, overacting. But, you know, that sounds like I'm negative about it, but I'm not. I kind of love it. It's so dramatic and he really commits, you know. It's like, I think he's sort of doing it on purpose.
00:25:53
Jamie
I love i loved him
00:25:57
Jen
I don't know if it's like, and a is it dramatic irony?
00:25:57
Red D
Yes.
00:26:00
Jen
I don't know what dramatic irony is, but, you know, he's having it on purpose and it's hilarious. I love it. I'm here for it.
00:26:08
Red D
Jamie, I think you also love Sulu.
00:26:10
Jamie
Oh my gosh, he was amazing. Yeah, so I'm going sort of jump around a little bit. Could I just take i' take a moment to point out that we finally have the absolutely right, you're also absolutely wrong meme.
00:26:27
Red D
oh okay the birth of a meme
00:26:27
Jamie
This is where it happens. You're dead.
00:26:30
Jen
Oh. Hmm.
00:26:30
Jamie
And Yeah, I know, I know. And it was was a beautiful moment. And it was of course to Tuvok when he was trying to do correctly the moral thing but was also absolutely incorrectly trying to do the moral thing.
00:26:47
Red D
oh yes because tubok was like we can't risk ourselves going to rescue kirk of course and
00:26:52
Jamie
Well, it wasn't quite so much we can't risk ourselves as we've been directly ordered not to and we'll be disobeying orders and generating more danger.
00:26:57
Red D
Ah, yes.
00:26:59
Jen
Rules and regulations.
00:27:00
Jamie
So, you know, Tuvok isn't motivated by a fear of, you know, danger.
00:27:00
Jen
no
00:27:05
Jamie
He's motivated by, you know, if there weren't rules, this would be France.
00:27:10
Jen
this is
00:27:12
Red D
I don't think we have any listeners in France, thank goodness. Okay.
00:27:15
Jamie
Well, to be honest, that's not my phrase, and I don't in any way mean that as something against the French. It's just a phrase that I've occasionally heard from unreconstructed acquaintances to explain why we need some rules and structure, whereas I, for one, love France.
00:27:33
Jen
i'm glad I'm glad we added that in for all our French listeners, you know, because there's like a really strong fan base in Paris and it's important to say that.
00:27:38
Red D
but
00:27:40
Jamie
We might one day have them, Jenny, and we want them to feel comfortable with supporting us, as they should be.
00:27:45
Red D
that's I mean like as I said i don't think we have any of this in France it doesn't um than pop up on our map but you never know what could happen and what people would go back and listen to so yes but to your point of his acting or of acting he definitely has a very distinct style and I wonder also if a style of acting changed between the original series and Voyager.
00:28:09
Red D
like
00:28:09
Jen
then
00:28:11
Red D
So just and maybe they were all a bit more dramatic, for want of a better word. But I think he had to bring...
00:28:16
Jen
It reminds me bit of...
00:28:18
Red D
Sorry, go ahead.
00:28:19
Jen
so
00:28:20
Red D
But I think he had to stick to his style, because then he wouldn't be... simply like
00:28:24
Jen
Yeah, very true. I was just going to say that I wonder if it's more theatrical acting, like theatre, stage.
00:28:31
Red D
Yes.
00:28:34
Jen
Oh,
00:28:34
Red D
Like a Cisco in Deep Space Nine.
00:28:38
Jen
oh yeah.
00:28:42
Red D
Okay, great. Thank you, Jamie. ah Jamie, would you like to... You did comment on Sulu, but would you like to give a new point skip this round? A new feature of this podcast?
00:28:59
Red D
Or you want to finish writing something in the notes? Is he still there?
00:29:03
Jen
I'm wondering if he's gone.
00:29:05
Red D
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:06
Jen
It seems like maybe he has. We lost Jamie! Oh dear.
00:29:12
Red D
He's skipping around in the notes. I think it was at you. Yeah, that's you.
00:29:18
Jamie
so Sorry, I'd muted myself and I hadn't realised and then I'd lost my screen time so while you guys were going on, oh gosh, I was muted. Okay, that's interesting.
00:29:28
Jamie
What was the last thing I said that you heard out of interest?
00:29:31
Red D
You're absolutely right, but you're absolutely wrong. No, I'm kidding, but...
00:29:35
Jamie
ah You're absolutely right Red, but you're also absolutely wrong. um Yeah, i'd I'd like us to reflect on the fact that Tuvok clearly has a past in an unspecified way that he doesn't talk about much.
00:29:50
Red D
Oh yeah. Tell us what you think happened in that post.
00:29:51
Jamie
only I think he's done some things. I'm just saying. You know Black Ops with Captain Sulu.
00:29:56
Jen
Things like...
00:30:01
Red D
Yeah.
00:30:01
Jen
I'm intrigued.
00:30:02
Red D
Yeah, me too.
00:30:03
Jamie
Well, I mean, the whole fact that this was a whole subsect of his Starfleet career that Captain Janeway wasn't aware of, the fact that he keeps sort of brushing it under the carpet is a long story. um The fact that we don't really hear much else of what he does there. We just sort of hear about his path out of Starfleet. think he was a secret operations guy.
00:30:28
Red D
Oh, that's a good...
00:30:29
Jamie
Anyway, that's just a view. Foreshadowing, maybe. I don't know. I haven't watched ah all of Voyager.
00:30:35
Red D
ah
00:30:36
Jen
Thank
00:30:36
Red D
That is an interesting theory. Can you remind us, because you have that memory, of what his path was? He wasn't Starfleet, but then he left and he meditated.
00:30:45
Jamie
yeah
00:30:45
Red D
He met his wife.
00:30:46
Jamie
ah Yes? Yep, continue.
00:30:48
Red D
No, that's it. That's all can remember.
00:30:50
Jamie
Oh right, he met his wife, he started to raise kids.
00:30:50
Jen
you.
00:30:53
Jamie
I paraphrase here the kids were so awful he ran to Starfleet to get away from them. um
00:31:00
Red D
Oh, yes. Nice. Yes.
00:31:01
Jamie
leap 100 years to the present day. No, um he met his wife, he had children, and then he realised the lessons that his parents had been trying to teach him through Starfleet, and he realised that Starfleet offered opportunities to learn those lessons, learn from others, and see the galaxy, so he took them.
00:31:22
Red D
oh yeah nice
00:31:24
Jamie
Although he said his first sojourn at Starfleet was, quote-unquote, unpleasant.
00:31:24
Jen
Hmm.
00:31:29
Red D
yes
00:31:29
Jamie
Possibly because of he had to endure the egocentric nature of humanity, to quote his words.
00:31:34
Jen
Hmm.
00:31:35
Red D
Oh, yes, yes.
00:31:36
Jamie
With everyone needing to ape, less importantly, humanity's values, and more importantly, and more offensively, to other species, humanity's sense of humour.
00:31:47
Red D
Yes, he really didn't like that.
00:31:48
Jamie
That was the bit that pissed him off.
00:31:51
Red D
Yes, I think I'll i'll save a point. But yes, he was wasn't really into fun. So I guess...
00:31:58
Jamie
No, not at all. It wasn't T though.
00:32:02
Red D
Yes.
00:32:02
Jen
I mean, he was also, you know, a spy at the Union Voyager, wasn't he? So that would lead me into Jamie's theory about him.
00:32:07
Red D
Yes.
00:32:07
Jamie
Hmm.
00:32:09
Jamie
Hmm.
00:32:10
Jen
Maybe he was recruited really early in his career.
00:32:13
Jamie
Hmm.
00:32:15
Red D
Yeah, I was also thinking of that.
00:32:17
Jamie
Hmm
00:32:20
Red D
Okay, well, I think my next point is very similar to one of Jamie's points. So feel free to dive in, Jamie. But how many times did they say gaseous anomalies in this episode? And then...
00:32:32
Red D
Because I've listened to Delta Fly's podcast, I'm sure they tell a story where Tim Russ is always farting and then just blaming it on a gaseous anomaly. So, really?
00:32:42
Jamie
Can you imagine Tuvok farting?
00:32:45
Red D
No. But Tim Russ, the actor, he's a different guy.
00:32:48
Jamie
I can't imagine it either. i mean I just loved the ship was damaged in a gaseous anomaly. It was the log entry for how they trashed the ship going on unauthorised mission into Klingon territory.
00:33:04
Red D
I am sorry every time they said like that phrase three or four times and I just loved every time. but what's exciting
00:33:11
Jamie
I mean, it may it may be different in other countries, but in the one that we're in, that's basically analogous with a fart.
00:33:11
Jen
Yeah, I think...
00:33:12
Jen
I
00:33:18
Red D
Yes.
00:33:18
Jen
i mean, I'm always gonna think of that now when I hear gaseous anomaly.
00:33:23
Red D
It's yeah, once you hear it, you can't get rid of it. I'll tell you that.
00:33:26
Jen
I might even start using it, you know? It's a bit stinky, did someone let her for gaseous anomaly?
00:33:29
Red D
ah
00:33:31
Red D
ah
00:33:31
Jen
it
00:33:33
Red D
Oh, the cats have little gaseous anomalies.
00:33:35
Jen
Yeah, it's always the cats.
00:33:37
Jamie
Oh, I thought I thought i'd just heard the cats in your background.
00:33:38
Red D
ah
00:33:43
Red D
oh Okay, so that's all I had to say about that. So back to you, Jenny.
00:33:49
Jamie
Oh, my
00:33:49
Jen
Well, I think we're really following similar note-taking on this episode because again, i noted down an amazing classic two-book quote hilariously divideed delivered which was just after the moment Jamie was talking about two-book talking about egocentric humans.
00:34:10
Jamie
God.
00:34:10
Jen
um I just love his delivery of the the human fascination with fun. has led to many tragedies in your short but violent history.
00:34:17
Jamie
yeah
00:34:20
Jen
it just think it's hilarious.
00:34:20
Jamie
Hmm.
00:34:20
Red D
Yes.
00:34:20
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm.
00:34:21
Jen
It's untrue.
00:34:23
Red D
And I will just add my point in there because i think I copied down the other part of the line. Well, one wonders how, oh gosh, sorry, I can't even read. One wonders how your race has survived having so much or something, like but like fun.
00:34:37
Red D
He's really down on fun, but his delivery is great.
00:34:41
Jen
He is stick in the mud when he's younger. And then he becomes a bit more wild and, you know, easygoing at these the ages.
00:34:50
Red D
Yes, I can't wait. not Not because of this, but I do love the episode. ah This is not a spoiler, I think.
00:34:55
Jamie
I am, I am.
00:34:56
Red D
And Neelix leaves Voyager. And Tuvok manages to push himself outside his comfort zone little bit. But we have to get there.
00:35:05
Jamie
yeah
00:35:07
Red D
Oh.
00:35:09
Jen
Are you alright Jamie? There's this is like giggling going on in the background and I'm just wondering
00:35:10
Jamie
i um i am I'm listening and I'm actually just sort of enjoying it. This is my normal noise level, but because you've got no verbal cues from it, so we've all got cameras off you just it sounds horrifically sinister.
00:35:23
Red D
ah
00:35:23
Jen
hey so
00:35:23
Jamie
And typically, horrifically sinister if you can't see me.
00:35:24
Jen
but like It sounds a bit like you're watching something in the background and laughing rather than at the podcast.
00:35:29
Jamie
Unfortunately, not that's ah that's a different competition to it on this season. that'll be
00:35:33
Red D
I assumed he was giggling at us, Jamie.
00:35:35
Jamie
Well to be fair I was but now I'm sort of being put in this box.
00:35:35
Red D
Oh,
00:35:39
Jamie
Look, honestly. I'll turn my camera on if you've got to, you know.
00:35:42
Red D
no.
00:35:43
Jen
Oh, there we go.
00:35:43
Jamie
Be reassured.
00:35:46
Jamie
That was.
00:35:46
Red D
ah Well, now I'll be back on camera. i think it's your turn, Jamie.
00:35:50
Jamie
Really? Honestly? bring me me go back on camera You put the pressure on. um yeah i I would like to talk about my enjoyment of the interaction between Captain Sulu and the Klingon captain, where after an exchange absolutely fraught with diplomatic hostility.
00:36:16
Jamie
ah Captain Sulu finishes it impishly again with the immortal line, nice to see you too, Korg.
00:36:25
Red D
Yes, that was great. And great to see Klingons, I think, because I'm sure they don't appear elsewhere Voyager.
00:36:30
Jamie
What are you trying to say about Bellana Torres? She's not a bit part character.
00:36:33
Red D
Oh, that's a very good point.
00:36:33
Jamie
Honestly, her so offensive.
00:36:35
Red D
That's a very good point. But the Klingon warriors. no, we do see them because she has an episode where she goes to...
00:36:41
Jamie
Yeah, God.
00:36:42
Red D
Stars God?
00:36:43
Jen
but
00:36:43
Red D
What is it called?
00:36:44
Jamie
Someone doesn't like Klingons.
00:36:45
Jen
Wait, there's several. Hang on. Yeah, what about the episode where people are following her around, Klingons, the random rogue ship of Klingons, because they think she's he carrying the Christ child or something.
00:36:51
Red D
Yes, sorry.
00:36:53
Jamie
And another thing where the whole page is whole thing is they want her because she's part Klingon.
00:36:53
Red D
I retract my statement.
00:36:58
Jen
Also, go on.
00:36:58
Red D
I retract my statement.
00:36:58
Jamie
its ah
00:36:59
Jen
also
00:37:00
Red D
It's because, let me just defend myself, it's because Deep Space Nine is a only about like the Klingon war against the Cardassians and then the...
00:37:01
Jen
god
00:37:09
Red D
So for some reason I just got confused. I thought there were Klingons in Voyager. Yeah.
00:37:13
Jen
Yeah, so that's the like hardcore Klingon series.
00:37:15
Red D
yeah
00:37:17
Jen
But also, one of my favourites has a Klingon in it, ah one Klingon, which is the one where the banana gets split into two components.
00:37:25
Red D
Oh yes, no, that's a great episode.
00:37:27
Jen
Oh, she's so good
00:37:29
Red D
I apologize to everybody this misinformation that I was spreading there.
00:37:31
Jen
in that. Yes, apologise for it, so you should. and
00:37:36
Jamie
Not okay.
00:37:37
Red D
and Not okay, agreed. But I was put in, I was corrected in real time, so no harm, no foul. don't know if that's a thing.
00:37:46
Jamie
Was there no harm? Was there?
00:37:50
Red D
I hope so. Um...
00:37:52
Jen
Jay, if you keep going, I'm going to have to point out your mistakes. Well, I wasn i wasn't going to do it. wasn't going to do it.
00:37:58
Jamie
I would love you to.
00:37:59
Red D
Jamie makes mistakes I'm not picking them up so
00:38:03
Jen
I think it was Kang.
00:38:03
Jamie
Hang on.
00:38:05
Jen
I think the Klingon was called Kang, not Kark.
00:38:06
Jamie
It was Kog.
00:38:08
Red D
I can't I cannot weigh in on this discussion flashback um maybe I can find it I have it here
00:38:08
Jen
I reckon it was Kang.
00:38:12
Jen
Oh,
00:38:12
Jamie
Well, there's only one way to find out about it. Remind me the name of this episode. Hang on. Star Trek Voyager Episode Flashback Plingon.
00:38:19
Jen
here we go.
00:38:27
Red D
Kang. Kang.
00:38:29
Jamie
Is it Kang?
00:38:31
Red D
It says K-A-N-G.
00:38:33
Jamie
Unbelievable. Ridiculous.
00:38:35
Jen
I'm saying nothing.
00:38:36
Jamie
I've been gas lit.
00:38:39
Jamie
Alright, well, there we go.
00:38:41
Red D
You know the woman that Janeway and Teobach suppress?
00:38:44
Jamie
They steal the clothes off.
00:38:47
Red D
I think it's her.
00:38:48
Jamie
Suppressed.
00:38:48
Red D
She's also from the original series. I thought she must be because, yeah, I just...
00:38:51
Jamie
Aww, awesome.
00:38:53
Jen
Yeah, I did wonder that.
00:38:54
Red D
I meant to check before we recorded, but now I i see Grace Lee Whitney, played Janice Rand, a fictional character, in Star Trek, the original series, during its first season, as well as three other the Star Trek films.
00:39:01
Jamie
Cool.
00:39:09
Jen
Hmm.
00:39:09
Red D
Okay.
00:39:11
Jamie
Excellent.
00:39:12
Red D
Great. I'm glad I managed to look that up. um And then I think on that note, I have a final point, but
Vulcan Memory and Character Admiration
00:39:20
Red D
even though we've not really discussed much about all these flashbacks, but...
00:39:20
Jamie
and
00:39:24
Red D
um I was wondering, do Vulcans have a perfect memory or perfect recall? Because he could just say, like, yes, I keep having this flashback, but I know that never happened. And then when they travel back in his mind, OK, sometimes you have memories that you don't have access to, maybe, or you kind forgot and then only something triggers them. But was just curious. He seemed to have perfect recall.
00:39:49
Jamie
Well, he is perfect in every single way, so I guess we shouldn't be surprised by it.
00:39:54
Red D
That's true. And now I'm gonna cough, so I'm gonna mute myself, so talk
00:39:59
Jamie
Oh gosh.
00:40:01
Jen
Wait, what?
00:40:01
Jamie
I feel alone. Silence.
00:40:03
Red D
Sorry, I'm back.
00:40:04
Jamie
We're missing something.
00:40:04
Jen
but but What happened?
00:40:06
Red D
I had to cough.
00:40:07
Jamie
And another thing.
00:40:08
Red D
um Yeah, but, oh, I had another point, but I'll bring that up later.
00:40:12
Jamie
and another thing
00:40:15
Red D
and Okay, because I think...
00:40:16
Jen
Well, now might be the time because I've run out of points.
00:40:20
Red D
Yeah, I'm also about to run out, but Jamie has a few more. But yes, okay, so on the recall side, um when I watch this episode that's why I'm saying like wow a week later I'm not sure I feel this way but when I was watching it i was like mind melding for dream memory analysis might be my ideal job because I guess I was thinking and love discussing people's dreams
00:40:36
Jamie
ah
00:40:37
Jen
Oh,
00:40:40
Red D
um so I think that could be very I'm doing like a bit of you know amateur dream analysis I guess but Jenny I don't want to go into world war 2 with you no offense
00:40:42
Jamie
What?
00:40:54
Red D
um
00:40:54
Jamie
What?
00:40:55
Red D
jenny's dreams that she shared
00:40:55
Jamie
what
00:40:58
Jamie
I mean, is she? Well, yeah, that's true.
00:41:01
Jen
I'm very... You've lost me
00:41:04
Red D
since you share that you have those wartime dreams okay maybe i'm a memory
00:41:04
Jamie
Uh...
00:41:11
Jamie
up
00:41:13
Jen
but every
00:41:13
Jamie
I love the way she's fed her this and now she's letting her hang out to Dorothy. Did I say that?
00:41:21
Jen
time Oh, I know what you're talking about.
00:41:22
Jamie
Did I?
00:41:22
Red D
um
00:41:23
Jen
I know. Was it COVID? During COVID?
00:41:26
Red D
yes yes
00:41:26
Jen
yeah Yes, it was it was it was just one dream. But yeah, it was... love stuff was
00:41:31
Jamie
but just Just paint Jenny's entire dreamscape a trench warfare landscape from World War I.
00:41:36
Jen
yeah
00:41:37
Red D
i mean the things that i remember i remember jenny's dreams but i don't remember like basic facts like your name oh
00:41:45
Jamie
Hmm.
00:41:46
Jen
oh yeah that was a pretty weird dream i'm I'm with you Ed I love listening to people's dreams and apparently it's super boring for a lot of people so you know you're in good company here
00:41:56
Red D
Yes, I don't why people find it boring, but I find it fascinating. So I'm glad can share my dreams with you, Jenny, or vice versa.
00:42:00
Jen
yeah
00:42:05
Red D
um Right. Jenny, coming back around to you, though I know you don't necessarily have a point, but is there anything that's come to mind? Or we can always move on to Jamie, who's got a few more.
00:42:16
Jamie
not sure I do.
00:42:18
Jen
I'm just thinking about dreams now.
00:42:19
Red D
okay
00:42:20
Jen
I'm trying to reveal them in any weird Reiki ones head.
00:42:22
Jamie
As you think about dreams, are you attaching bayonets?
00:42:27
Jen
Well, there weren't any bayonets in that war dream I had. It was it was more like bombs.
00:42:31
Jamie
How is it a war dream if there are no bayonets?
00:42:32
Red D
Weren't you in the trenches? Oh,
00:42:35
Jen
No, no, it was modern warfare. It was like rockets landing.
00:42:38
Red D
modern warfare. Oh.
00:42:39
Jen
Well, actually it was a mix, you know what? Because it was it was modern day rockets landing, but they were landing like on a beach, which has overtones of like, yeah, like in D-Day bombings and things.
00:42:46
Red D
Oh, Normandy.
00:42:50
Jen
But also they were coming from China. So that was more modern.
00:42:53
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:42:54
Jen
It was bit of a wild dream.
00:42:58
Red D
Oh, dear. That was funny.
00:42:59
Jamie
All
00:43:01
Jen
ah have, I know. I guess I did not take that many notes for this one, even though I enjoyed it.
00:43:08
Red D
No problem, I think Jamie can ah entertain us for you.
00:43:10
Jamie
all Well, I'm not sure that I can. I think my... my we I just really, really enjoyed ah the captain's dismissive side eye.
00:43:26
Jamie
Of course, the whole lot of them would have booted out of Starfleet Academy today, but every single one of her forebears, including the captain who Tuvok served under, I very much enjoyed that side eye.
00:43:39
Jamie
And that is about me. I don't even have anything else to throw at Neelix beyond the accusation that his juice was the actual baddie in this episode as opposed to some random virus that happened to be showboating in Tuvok's head.
00:43:49
Jen
Yeah.
00:43:57
Red D
But you wrote something here about uniforms and actually that does remind me that I did like seeing Tuvok as the original uniform and also just I guess the set and the everything.
00:44:01
Jamie
Oh.
00:44:05
Jamie
Oh.
00:44:07
Jamie
Hmm.
00:44:08
Red D
That was kind cool.
00:44:09
Jamie
Hmm.
00:44:09
Jen
yeah
00:44:12
Jamie
Yep, no that's fair. i mean the The thing that I noticed about uniform was the only difference between now what you know what was worn full duty and what was worn in bed was that they just sort of unbutton one quarter of their top when they're in bed.
00:44:25
Red D
Oh yeah, they were just lying on those beds that they were here for. well Right, then are we ready for themes?
00:44:33
Jen
Yeah, let's do it
00:44:35
Red D
Okay, Jenny, can I go in order again? If you want to kick us off?
00:44:39
Jen
it. put reliability of memory and how things may not be as they seem.
00:44:43
Jamie
No.
00:44:46
Jen
I think this was based on the doctor's comment.
00:44:47
Red D
That's good.
00:44:48
Jen
You know, he was talking about how, you know, over time memories, the they warp and change and, you know, your interpretation of them, excuse me, your interpretation of them according to your life experience and reflection and perspective change too.
00:45:04
Jen
And so actually how reliable is memory? Who knows?
00:45:08
Red D
Yeah. They always do those studies, don't they? Like, did you visit this place were you in this hot air balloon? And people are yeah. And they're like, no, you weren't. Or something like that. I'm massively paraphrasing.
00:45:19
Jen
Yeah.
00:45:21
Red D
which yeah But, yes.
00:45:24
Jen
Yeah.
00:45:25
Red D
at Jamie.
00:45:28
Jamie
So I think my theme is Sulu, who I just think is the best character ever. I'm sorry.
00:45:36
Jen
Mm-hmm.
00:45:36
Red D
Oh, why do you love him so much?
00:45:37
Jamie
love I just, he has a real wryness and a cheerfulness to him. i love him when he's being serious, I love him when he's being dramatic. But there's a smile to him and a cheerfulness and a lightness of his take on the universe while still being a serious character that is it very much appreciated.
00:45:58
Red D
Oh yeah, I think that... I don't know his character that well, but the way say that, that makes sense.
00:46:03
Jamie
Yeah, a character of cheer and good heart, which I think is incredible.
00:46:04
Red D
That likeness. Oh yeah, I have to watch...
00:46:07
Jen
Makes me want to watch an episode of the original series actually. It's been a long time since I did.
00:46:17
Red D
Oh dear, what is going outside?
00:46:19
Jen
Is that you Red?
00:46:20
Jamie
God.
00:46:21
Red D
No, that was not me. That was just from outside.
00:46:22
Jen
As in you're... yes, not you personally.
00:46:25
Red D
And I'm not swearing at people outside.
00:46:26
Jen
You're Red.
00:46:28
Jamie
a
00:46:28
Red D
Honestly, I don't know what's happened, but people have like lost their minds this summer.
00:46:33
Jen
Oh it's the heat. Everyone goes is crazy.
00:46:34
Red D
It's the heat. I'm not offense you guys, but you British people cannot handle the heat.
00:46:39
Jen
I think that's fair. Hmm.
00:46:40
Red D
like um Okay. My theme, actually, my memory finally like started working again. I remember a point that I hadn't said, so I'll say it together while there's the theme, but I guess the theme of, you know, I love seeing the friendship between, um,
00:46:54
Red D
Tuvok and Janeway and the fact that he chose her for the mind meld, which normally you would only need do with family or maybe another Vulcan. But he said, on this ship, I trust you more than anyone else.
00:47:06
Red D
And then like the way he chose her to do his mind meld.
00:47:07
Jamie
yeah. Yep, good.
00:47:09
Red D
So French, a little bit of French up there.
00:47:10
Jen
Yeah, that's cute.
00:47:10
Jamie
Ooh.
00:47:14
Jamie
yeah
00:47:15
Red D
Right, star player.
00:47:19
Jen
I had chosen someone but now I'm bit afraid I'm going to take Jamie's away.
00:47:23
Red D
Is it the virus? I know.
00:47:25
Jen
Oh no it wasn't!
00:47:25
Jamie
No, no, that wasn't that wasn't mine either.
00:47:26
Jen
That was a great one!
00:47:26
Red D
I'm
00:47:27
Jen
Oh I wish I'd chosen that. ah wish I wish I'd thought of that red. That was a good one.
00:47:30
Red D
sorry. You can still have it.
00:47:31
Jamie
i know what I know what Jenny was going to choose because it wasn't the virus and that wasn't what I was going to choose either.
00:47:38
Red D
Well, you start, Janie.
00:47:38
Jen
Okay
00:47:39
Red D
We'll let you go first.
00:47:40
Jamie
I was going to choose the juice as clearly it was the one that got Tuvok and no one has managed that thus far. Someone finally broke the majestic Mr. Russ and it wasn't a virus, it was a fruit juice or more to the point a blended one. Hats off for doing so as an inanimate non-sentient substance.
00:48:00
Jamie
Chapeau.
00:48:02
Red D
Very good. So the juice for Star Player One, i feel like this award is losing its value.
00:48:07
Jamie
There's a lot of learning in that.
00:48:11
Red D
But no, please. Jenny, maybe now you can say the one you want to say.
00:48:15
Jen
Yeah, yeah, i like I mean part of this was that like there's it's very difficult to not pick, it's basically the Tuvok show isn't it right? So i was kind of assuming someone's going pick Tuvok so therefore
00:48:25
Red D
Mm.
00:48:28
Red D
Mm.
00:48:30
Jen
I picked Sulu because I agree with Jamie's lovely little summary that he gave him earlier.
00:48:32
Red D
yeah
00:48:36
Jen
He's just this like way overly dramatic but also laughing at himself kind of cheerful actor. um And I just love his delivery. It's hilarious. It's like he doesn't take himself too seriously, which let's face it, Star Trek, I mean, don't know that it should take itself too seriously, apart from when it's dealing with the, know, really serious themes.
00:48:58
Jen
know suicide and yep oh really I have to google I have to google later
00:48:58
Jamie
Could I also say young Hikaru Sulu was a buff. He's very handsome indeed.
00:49:12
Red D
Okay, so star player Sulu. So I also, I have to come up with star player on the spot now because I hadn't thought about this. And surprisingly, I'm not choosing Tuvok or the virus.
00:49:21
Jen
oh no no one's choosing to look oh
00:49:22
Jamie
Oh. Oh.
00:49:25
Red D
I mean, he was, I mean, I guess you're right from an acting perspective and and screen time. yeah
00:49:31
Jamie
Hmm.
00:49:32
Red D
But I'm going to star player to Janeway. for, again, I guess it's tied back to that friendship theme, I mean, willing to do this like deep mind mold, introspection, investigation to try save the life of her friend.
00:49:44
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm.
Friendship and Trust in Star Trek
00:49:48
Red D
um And they almost got stuck in that mind mold at some point, so it wasn't risk-free. So I don't think I've given that many to Janeway. So Janeway, I'll start there.
00:49:57
Jamie
Yeah.
00:49:57
Jen
oh I think we've been we've been holding off red, both you and I, because we're worried we're going to over reward her.
00:50:00
Red D
Yeah.
00:50:04
Red D
She'll be overrepresented.
00:50:05
Jen
Yeah, over reward her. ah And you've chosen to go for traditional awarding according to the character rather than the actor as well, which we chop and change between, don't we?
00:50:17
Red D
Yeah, but we, we dropped a change.
00:50:20
Jen
Yeah.
00:50:21
Jamie
yeah Fair enough.
00:50:23
Red D
Okay. Well done everybody.
00:50:24
Jamie
Alright, we've done it. Great job.
00:50:26
Red D
um um yeah, that was interesting without cameras.
00:50:27
Jamie
And we did it with only one third of human body language. Which
00:50:35
Red D
Jenny, you have a very nice voice.
00:50:37
Jamie
was bad.
00:50:38
Jen
Wait, is that Jamie or Jenny?
00:50:38
Jamie
Ouch.
00:50:40
Red D
Well, Jamie has a nice voice, but that's well established, but that was Jenny.
00:50:42
Jamie
No, that was Jenny. That was Jenny.
00:50:45
Jen
Oh, how nice!
00:50:46
Red D
I guess I wasn't distracted by all the visuals. Yeah.
00:50:49
Jamie
yeah Or your beauty.
00:50:50
Jen
Oh. Because occasionally I have to listen to a recording for myself.
00:50:54
Jamie
Your wife.
00:50:55
Jen
Oh. <unk>
00:50:56
Red D
Oh, well, don't stress.
00:50:57
Jamie
Aww.
00:50:57
Red D
You have a nice voice. um So, oh, next week is this, or next time, rather, is the shoot.
00:51:06
Jamie
You realize we're still recording, by the way.
00:51:07
Jen
oh
00:51:08
Red D
Yes, I know. jingle just ended. But saying next week is the shoot, or next time is the shoot.
00:51:10
Jamie
Oh, sorry.
00:51:13
Red D
See you then. Bye.
00:51:15
Jen
Bye-bye.
00:51:16
Jamie
Jingle?