Transcript
El Platypo: This needs big distraction energy for me. Distract, destract, destract, destract, destract. Yeah,
Red D: You know when you like say a word so much, you're like, is that a real word? Is distract a real word?
El Platypo: I know.
Red D: I don't know.
El Platypo: Well, ah to be honest, it's very weird, but I find it very difficult to stop myself doing sort of a Donald Trump fist dance to this music.
Jen: Oh no, don't.
El Platypo: Yeah, no, don't do it, Red. Don't do it.
Red D: That's so funny. Maybe I should make another TikTok ad.
Jen: I can't unsee it.
Red D: After my one I made six months ago. um
Jen: You guys are very good at it.
Red D: yes
El Platypo: Wait, you made a ticket.
Jen: It's a bit worrying.
Red D: ah
El Platypo: You made a tick or cat about this.
Red D: I don't know. About this podcast, but used Donald Trump to pro promote it. I mean.
El Platypo: But hang on before you go there. Like, did you make a tick tock ad about this podcast?
Red D: Yes, I told you guys. I think I even showed you when I used AI to make our logo animate.
El Platypo: I'm having to raise an eyebrow very high here. Cause I remember the logo, but i do not remember. We'll talk of a tick tock ad.
Jen: I remember talking about it, but I didn't really, I mean, don't think I ever saw it. Did you send us?
El Platypo: Maybe we should settle this creative and commercial difference offline when we're not doing it in front of everyone who presumably listens to this.
Red D: Are you on TikTok?
El Platypo: On the other hand, I'd love to continue this as a commercial dispute right now.
Red D: Well,
Red D: well, I was just so happy that we managed to use the whole jingle. So that's why I kept talking and dancing like Donald Trump. Um, ah
El Platypo: That's a bad reason to dance that way, dude. That's such a bad reason to dance that way.
Red D: I think the dances are music, I think. Everyone probably thinks that. um
El Platypo: I don't know, man. i get i I got PTSD already. Before the even tea.
Red D: You've seen my dancing, so you should be able to manage. ah um
El Platypo: I've experienced your dancing.
Red D: same Jamie, you should've leapt to my defence there. Anyway, back to the...
El Platypo: Oh, yeah, sorry. Oh, I mean, yeah what are you talking about?
Red D: ah
El Platypo: There's no comparison. Sorry, have I flustered long enough?
Red D: Yes, that's good. So welcome back, everybody. Bit of a break. One of us decided to get sick and have an operation.
Jen: Thank you.
El Platypo: It was an extreme measure to take to avoid talking to you, our beloved listeners, but I stand behind taking it.
Red D: Very extreme. i mean, you can always use the codeine when we're recording our podcast, the letter of a codeine.
Red D: That might be amazing. But we are back. We are doing... Oh, I only wrote down the name. ups My brain? It's back to being a sip. Season 3, Episode 8, Star Trek Voyager, Futures End, Part 1.
Red D: So, yeah.
Jen: To a parto.
Red D: Two parts. And it's halfway through the season. i was like, is it the end of the season? Well, anyway, we'll we'll find out next time. But um Jamie, Jenny, welcome back.
Red D: And Jamie, are you ready to do a one-minute summary? Or have you been through all the episodes and checked if it's your turn or not to do the one-minute summary?
El Platypo: I do love it when my victories are paid in patrony. um As just happened there. I haven't prepared this in any way, shape or form, but I think it's fair to say that this is that eternal story of a starship lost in quadrant far, far from home who run across a small starship in a rip in the space-time continuum saying, I must destroy you to save your planet in the future.
El Platypo: Give yourselves up now. and then basically blowing them and itself through the rift in the space-time continuum into the past as opposed to the future, and our intrepid band of Star Trek voyages embarking on adventures in 1990s Los Angeles, trying to find out the source of subspace frequency harmonics that suggest their time-travelling tormentor
Jen: Hmm.
El Platypo: Maybe on the surface. The plot continues.
Red D: Nice. Nice, Jamie.
El Platypo: Well, at most just threw in a load of pauses when I hadn't figured out what to say next, but apparently it adds drama.
Red D: Yeah, was great. And I think I ah realized why I made a mistake about who is moderating because I don't actually go in alphabetical order.
Jen: It was.
Red D: I go Jenny, Jamie, Redd. But anyway, we don't have to get into that now. But...
El Platypo: Just in case our listeners are unsure about this, Red falsely accused me of moderating today. What she didn't know is that for the first time ever on this series, I'd actually done my research and listened to the preceding two podcasts.
Red D: Oh, is that why we got more listens? That's great.
El Platypo: it It is. i had a lot of time to listen to things while I was on my hospital bed, from which I have arisen to preach with you, my fair friends.
Jen: Oh, you should have spent some of that time listening to our podcasts and seeing what they actually sound like as a as a listener.
El Platypo: I really hate to say this, but that's actually what I did. Indeed, what I said I just did.
Jen: Did you really?
El Platypo: That is what I just said I did!
Jen: i thought you were joking.
Red D: The secret's out.
Jen: oh my goodness. but But I thought you joking. Are you serious? Oh, well, how did how did we sound?
El Platypo: Yeah, of course I'm serious.
El Platypo: Like Argonauts. Heroes of old.
Jen: Excellent.
El Platypo: Yes.
Red D: I mean, I like listening to us, but I guess it's because I like talking to us.
Jen: Oh,
Red D: Yeah.
El Platypo: The lad sounds amazing. And, you know, the other two are pretty cool, too.
Jen: I'm just a bit scared to listen. Like I listened that one time, the first time we ever did one. And ah my expectations of hearing my own voice were, you know, extremely low.
Jen: And so actually I was pleasantly surprised. but But then since then, I've been afraid to listen again.
Red D: Yes, I mean, I wouldn't say... That makes sense. I mean, lot of people don't listen to themselves or watch themselves, as it turns out, as I've learned from all this TV rewatching podcast.
El Platypo: hmm
Red D: But um I don't think we said sound as bad as we fear. And yeah.
Jen: yeah as bad as you think in your head yeah
Red D: and Right. So back to the podcast. Initial reactions. Jenny, do you want to kick us off?
Jen: oh okay okay i mean you know, you guys, you know, I love Voyager. So I, I, I always pretend gone to me first because, uh, I love so many episodes, but unfortunately this is not one of them.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Jen: So my initial reaction, when I saw it, I knew exactly which one it was because I'm like, Oh, so I don't know why I'm not blaming the episode, of the actors or any, anything about it, but it's, um, it's not massively one for me.
Jen: And because you can see the part one and I know it's one that I'm not so keen on and it's a double hitter. So I'm kind of like, oh, there's two of them.
Jen: So I'm very sorry that was my initial reaction. um
Red D: I'm sad we don't have like a giant disappointed sigh on the soundboard and then I can play it now.
Jen: ah I really, really tried to think of why, because I thought, you know, otherwise it's just, there's nothing really to talk about in it, is there?
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: Very good.
Jen: But I, I'm not sure why, I just don't find it that interesting, these couple. what What about you two?
Red D: Yeah, Jamie, go ahead.
El Platypo: So actually, my reaction is actually quite positive, given the fact that the way in which I typically react to Star Trek episodes, which are doing the whole time travel thing, echoes the captain's resolution on and during this actual episode on the topic of...
Red D: you
El Platypo: actually, frankly, Star Trek episodes with the time travel thing, which is that her very first resolution on her first day in Starfleet is never to get caught in one of those godforsaken paradoxes.
El Platypo: Now, given that's how I feel about the time travel genre in general in Star Trek, I actually rather enjoyed this one. um Yeah, I thought it was interesting. It allowed a little bit of a chemistry builder of an episode so that you get to see the dynamics between people in you know a different environment.
El Platypo: um I found bits of it irritating, but nowhere one near as irritating as I normally find the time travel bits. And it was able to keep the plot progressing sufficiently quickly that I wasn't sort of dragged into the mire of, oh, for goodness sake, can we get back to the things that I love about Star Trek Voyager? um So that was cool. I really, really liked actually some of the awkwardness that is always generated when people do a time travel sort of scene.
El Platypo: um It actually worked and was played quite well. um And yeah, it gave us opportunities for new things like, for instance, Ensign Kim's first time in the chair.
Red D: Ah, yes. It's very first time. Still not promotion worthy, but, um, so this is, well, yes.
Jen: Thank you.
El Platypo: Says who?
Red D: So I think I'm probably maybe halfway between the two of you. Um, I think I was also a slightly bad mood when I started of watching and i was like, Oh, it's going to be hard work.
Red D: But then when they met in LA, did get sucked in and, um, And I don't know why, but I always liked, i mean, I've never seen her in anything else, but I'm like, ah Sarah Silverman, because, you know, she was a stand-up comedian. She is a stand-up comedian. i think she was in other things with TV, but I only ever saw maybe a bit of a stand-up. um And Ed Begley Jr., the guy who plays Henry, evil guy.
Red D: I've seen him in so many things growing up as a child. I tried to go through his, like, IMDB whatever to see what I really knew him from, but he's been in so many things. I think I just recognized his face from everything like touched by an angel and various other things. So I always love to see people.
Red D: There's something I really love about. I'm not that I've done this actively, but like tracking people's careers and realizing, Oh, they were in so many things.
El Platypo: In the context of...
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Red D: I saw them in one, but then I, you know, I don't know, like just like this, I find it.
El Platypo: Christopher Walken, for instance.
Red D: Yes, but people who are more like character actors or whatever that are just being on all these TV shows that you grew up and love. But I didn't really realize because i thought like as an actor you went to a show once and that was it and you never saw you again.
Red D: Like as a kid I really didn't understand all these things. but
El Platypo: Especially if you dine on that show. like Then you were definitely never going to be again.
Red D: Yeah, man, that's end of career. oh So yeah.
El Platypo: Yeah.
Red D: So I did like the familiar faces.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: um But okay, so I guess, Jenny, is it going to be tough for you to come up with some points to discuss this evening? Are you kidding
Jen: twice Yeah, I mean, is it...
Red D: like I guess you can throw some bad things in, but you kick us off?
Jen: Yeah, sure. i mean, it is a weird one, though, because normally if I don't like an episode, I still have quite a lot of things to say. Maybe bad things. um I did struggle with this one.
Jen: Do you know what it is When Jamie was speaking, there was something you said which, um I don't know, like initiated this thought, but I think maybe it's just the fact that they're not I like Voyager because they're on Voyager and in space and that's the setting.
Jen: And a lot of this is just like the setting as if you were watching a show in about LA, you know, and maybe that's what it is.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: It's not that it's like a bad episode. It's just not something I'd necessarily choose to watch if it was a show in that setting. That would be less interesting. So it might just be that.
Red D: Yes, because that was my huge complaint about Picard, the series that came out of it. Was that so much of it was set on Earth. i was like, what is the point of this?
Jen: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Red D: What is the actual point? So that makes sense to me.
Jen: Yeah. Yeah. It might just be that. I might, because I've got so few points, I might use that as my first point.
Red D: Yeah, I think that's a great, great first point. I know you've only got three, so let's ration them out.
Jen: um'm I'm sure more will come to me as we talk, but but yeah.
Red D: I'm sure.
Jen: Thanks, Red.
Red D: ah Jamie, over to you. how do you want to What favorite bits, annoying bits, new bits did you want to discuss?
El Platypo: no. so I mean, i actually got one of my points in earlier about the description, the captain sort of having a very, very clear thing about the fact that of all the situations she doesn't want to get into,
El Platypo: ah the very first one she decided that she didn't was a godforsaken time loop paradox. um And I, leaving aside that sort of caption, how I felt about the time travel trope typically, ooh, alliteration, I like what I've done with that note. um I just found it, I find it adds a nice bit of humanity to the captain's character to actually find there are some situations she doesn't relish getting into as much as she, you know,
El Platypo: plays that line like, yeah, of course, no sweat, hair flick and all that sort of jazz, but um it's nice that she positions some things as not her wanting to do anything about them or actually find herself in them.
Red D: That is interesting. Jenny, do you have a reaction to that? Or do you agree?
Jen: I think it's a really good point actually, yeah, because it makes it a bit more realistic. I mean no one loves everything, do they?
Red D: Yeah, I think it is.
Jen: Mainway hates time travel.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: I think it is realistic. But to me, it's bit like, but you're a captain. You should be dedicated to all forms of problems that you, but but I think your reaction is more normal.
El Platypo: Oh yeah, but...
Red D: My reaction is more people that have to be perfect, which is unhealthy.
El Platypo: What the hell? People don't have to be perfect, that's what makes them people.
Red D: I learned how to be a person from watching TV. So I needed them to be very good role models.
Jen: in
Red D: So that's interesting to me.
Jen: I mean that's I mean friends is basically how we learned to have relationships and friendships I mean that's how we grew up yeah
Red D: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
El Platypo: let's say
Red D: um Anything else to add there, Janie? Or should I move? Should I jump jump in with a point?
El Platypo: but No, you you let's let's go to you. i feel like you really like this episode, so I'd really like to hear some of why you like this episode.
Red D: Oh, I'm not sure. But first of all, we're in 1996, baby, which now looking back was pretty sweet time to be a alive.
El Platypo: Yeah, yeah.
Red D: um So I wanted to know, I mean, I think I guess I was 15. um Don't remember anything, but do you remember 1996? Do you remember anything? I guess you were a bit younger.
Red D: So maybe, I don't know, like any fun memories or fun bands or favorite stuff?
El Platypo: yeah oh
Jen: I feel like that might have been around the time of sort of Spice Girls, um maybe um Boy Zone.
Red D: Yes, that's what I was just thinking.
El Platypo: eura ninety six
Red D: There we go.
El Platypo: yep
Jen: it ninety yeah Wasn't 96?
Jen: It does ring a bell, but I can't think why, like in terms of pop pop culture.
Red D: there a World Cup or Euro?
El Platypo: and was No, there there was there was a European Cup in in England where England actually reached a semi-final before then, you know, twathing themselves out against Germany.
Red D: Oh.
El Platypo: Stuart Pearce.
Jen: Oh, was it that one? It was the one where Beckham did the foot thing and he got a card.
El Platypo: Oh, no, no, that was that was, I think that was the 1998 World Cup. This one was Stuart Pearce. No, not Stuart Pearce. Gareth Southgate missing the penalty against Germany.
Jen: oh
Red D: How long is gas off keeping alive?
Jen: Oh.
Red D: Oh no, he's a coach now, right? No, my manager.
Jen: Yeah, yeah.
El Platypo: Yeah, yeah.
Red D: Okay.
El Platypo: he He isn't just some elemental figure as much as his coverage in the English press might suggest he is.
Red D: Yeah.
El Platypo: And I love him dearly. Hmm.
Jen: I mean, him becoming coach was a bit of a, um like it makes you feel old I mean because it's the first time I think that not that I'm a particular football follower I'm not at all but did watch I guess the the world cups growing up you know because everyone does in the UK even if you don't like football um and no actually remembering someone from my childhood who was playing and is now coach made me feel little bit
Red D: Yeah. Yeah.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: yeah
Red D: Fair enough. Fair enough. ah Yeah, I wish I could remember a bit more. I just think maybe 1996 was the probably around the time I started going to the socials at the boys' schools, and but which was very exciting.
Red D: ah
Jen: Yep, yep, exciting times.
El Platypo: Socials at the boys' schools.
Red D: At the boys' schools and dancing to, like, Faithless and...
El Platypo: Did they ever go to socials at the girls' schools?
Red D: They didn't really host them, I think.
El Platypo: Aren't they?
Red D: But, like, they were at...
El Platypo: That's a bit sexist.
Red D: I'm not sure why, but Ronda Walsh, Saks, Bishops, they all hosted the socials.
Jen: Oh Red, I don't know if you were a fan, but I recently watched something which basically did a rundown of all of these songs from Steps
El Platypo: Oh.
Jen: You remember Steps?
Red D: I remember steps.
Jen: Oh my goodness. I think that must have been, yeah, back in the 1996.
El Platypo: No.
Red D: Yes, i'm sure there's peak steps time.
Jen: That would have been the time.
El Platypo: What's...
Jen: Peak Steps, yeah.
El Platypo: hmm. Was Oasis Reblur a thing back then as well?
Red D: Yes, probably.
Jen: I think so. I think that was my older sister was into them at the time. i think I was bit too young.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: But yeah, definitely around that time.
Red D: 1996. Good times, I think. And I did enjoy...
Jen: All the best movies in the ninety s
Red D: So they... Yes. Sometimes people post on social media, like, in this week, one week in 1995, these top like amazing films came out.
Red D: You're like, wow, that was... don't know. and I'm going to make something up now, like Shawshank Redemption, Sister Act, and Jurassic Park or something. like like
Jen: Oh yeah.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: Probably those did come out the same week, but you know what mean.
Jen: Yeah. Oh.
Red D: But I did, and for me, it was like, oh, 1996, because I guess that's when, like, in real life, when the episode was made, I think, I guess, or somewhere around there. um I'm just, but I did like the twist where they, like, at the scene, up like, they've been torn through that vortex, whatever thing, and they see Earth, and I guess you're like oh, my God, but they're in the right place at the wrong time, because they're now 1996. And I did enjoy Tom's line, which was, like, when...
Red D: a case, Janeway. He's like, oh, yeah, you're the expert in the late 20th century or early whatever stuff. And he's like, what what do we need to fit in or whatever? He's like, to blend in, we need nice clothes, fast cars, and loads of money or something, which I'm like, I think that's still accurate.
El Platypo: Yeah.
Red D: Yeah,
El Platypo: Yeah, isn't that accurate in Voyager's Day?
Jen: Thank you.
Red D: it's still the case. So i enjoyed that little line.
El Platypo: And actually, could I engage with that question? just When they go down in 1996, baby, ah not the title of anyone's sex tape, do they have loads of money, the Voyager crew?
Red D: No, there's no money in a the Starfleet.
El Platypo: Can't they, like, replicate it or forge it?
Red D: Yes, they can.
El Platypo: i'm just I'm just looking at you know the opportunities for exploitation here.
Red D: That's true. Oh, yeah, that's true. That's a good point because
El Platypo: Just in case I ever find myself in that situation. Not that you know secretly conducting negotiations with an alien ship off Earth here.
Red D: Because Jenny, I'm sure you'll probably remember this, like they've eliminated the concept of money in the 24th century or something, but you're right.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Like they, they had to like get a vehicle by pretending to take it for a test drive, but they could have maybe just replicated some money before they went down.
El Platypo: Hmm.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Good point, Jenny.
Jen: That's a really good point.
El Platypo: That's what you keep me here for along with the face.
Red D: ah of Jenny, do you want to take over?
Jen: Yeah, well, I had so a few points and Jamie already stole one.
Red D: Sorry.
Jen: And I just, you know, he, yeah, because I also said, Harry in the captain's chair.
Red D: Oh, but you.
Jen: Hurrah. We love Harry in the captain's chair. He's getting some captaining experience. And, you know, that's a good thing considering he's basically not going to get a promotion for seven years. so
Red D: Join the club, Harry. Yeah.
El Platypo: Does anyone get promoted in that seven years?
Jen: Well, how can they? Because they need everyone to do their job in order to make the ship run.
Red D: yeah
Jen: Because they don't have anyone to replace the junior...
El Platypo: yeah, but I mean, preume presumably so some mid-level minions without plot armour die at some stage and folk need to sort of shuffle up the career ladder.
Jen: Oh, wow, that's brutal.
Red D: And, yeah.
Jen: If someone dies, then you get a promotion.
Red D: Oh, gosh, okay, yes. I don't want that promotion.
El Platypo: Hey, we've we've all heard of Dead Men's Shoes.
Red D: That's Jenny, do you think Harry made the right call to go lower, closer to Earth?
El Platypo: It's a thing because it's a thing.
Red D: Wow, excuse that very scientific terminology. So that he could beam up the captain and Chakotay, but with the risk of being seen by the Los Angelians.
El Platypo: The angels.
Jen: I mean I was quite surprised he chose to do that actually don't know would Jane may have done that
El Platypo: the angels
Red D: That's true, she would have. Leave no crew member behind. Sacrifice everyone for the few. That is her motto.
Jen: well but yeah
El Platypo: She did say his timing was impeccable. And if Janeway is the standard of leadership, then if Janeway is the standard and we aspire to meet that, then he is he did the right thing.
Red D: She was happy with his decision. No.
Jen: Yeah, I mean, i guess I wouldn't have expected him to leave them behind or anything, but maybe given them a bit more time. do you know i mean?
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: i don't know if if I was, it was clearly the right decision, but if I was in his shoes, I guess I might have thought I'll give them more time, which clearly would have been the wrong wrong call. But you know, sometimes they do have episodes where they say, give them more time, trust them.
Jen: so and then And then that works out.
El Platypo: yeah god stop cramping her style disobeyed a direct order harry for him for heaven's sake
Jen: So...
Jen: I'm just glad that he made a call and it was right.
Red D: But Lana wasn't very helpful. Yeah.
El Platypo: what did balana say in this situation what a way to take responsibility onto yourself oh dear license
Red D: She was like, it's your decision. You decide.
Jen: Yeah, I reckon that was a um ah artistic license kind of thing. Like they wanted to show that it was gonna be Harry's decision, you know, to make sure that he got the full credit when it went right. Because in reality,
Jen: I mean, if you're quite junior to the captain chair and you've got all of these really expert people around you, you would want to include them in the decision, I would think.
El Platypo: uh
El Platypo: sister
Red D: Yes. Yeah.
El Platypo: this assistant it
Jen: Like, yes, the the final decision rests with you, but you would take all the expert advice, surely.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: Head engineer, you know, but you did good in the end.
Red D: yeah Agreed.
El Platypo: assist
Red D: He did good. um So Jamie, any next point?
El Platypo: Right, I just want to talk to the fact that Captain Branson's immediate realm of insult for a police officer who he feels is over-employing the powers of state is quasi-Cardassian totalitarian.
El Platypo: And I just think that we need to dig into that a little bit more deeply. Because I could um i can understand Cardassian quasi-totalitarian, but I can't understand quasi-Cardassian totalitarian.
Red D: No, yes, the order.
El Platypo: Yes.
Red D: Because he doesn't look Cardassian.
El Platypo: No, he's not.
Jen: Maybe that's why he says crazy.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: He's like, you've got you look you you look human, but then...
El Platypo: Well, yeah, but is there anything about him?
Red D: Oh, he is wearing a grey uniform, isn't he? and on
El Platypo: No, he's wearing a thin blue line.
Red D: Like ah the police uniform.
El Platypo: Yeah, it's not grey, it's dark blue.
Red D: But I think it was... Is it? Okay. Because I was going to say it's grey uniform.
El Platypo: Yeah.
Red D: Maybe it's similar to how Cardassians...
El Platypo: Well, I did my research as well for this episode, actually, Red, and I found out that the LA police uniform is a deep navy blue as opposed to grey in anticipation of precisely that point being made.
Red D: Gosh, Jamie, you remember I don't like it when you do your research.
El Platypo: um
Red D: Just try to be helpful.
El Platypo: Just trying to stand my ground.
Jen: Wow, that is some research.
El Platypo: I've realised a lot of people have been pushing me around on this podcast.
Red D: Wow, you've changed since you've had that operation.
Jen: He's got more time on his hands.
Red D: gosh.
El Platypo: I just realised I've got to live life to the full. i've i've
Red D: You
El Platypo: I've lost myself slightly in trying to not be annoying. I need to go back to my roots.
Red D: need to go back.
El Platypo: Make Jamie Grace again.
Red D: So what do you...
El Platypo: M'njka.
Red D: make jamie great again oh dear make jamie less annoying more annoying again make jamie
El Platypo: M'njka.
El Platypo: You only get to say that if you can say the acronym, because I came straight out with M'njka, because I did my research before this podcast, and I found out that Make Jamie Grace Again spelled M-G-G-A, pronounced M'njka.
Jen: Revert all the personal growth.
Red D: you said a lot of research so what do you think why do you think the line is written that way
El Platypo: Well, I'm just throwing out to the group to crowdsource an answer because that's the most annoying thing that I can do in this situation.
Red D: I tried to answer.
El Platypo: But I actually think that thelo writers thelo right just the the screenwriters either made an error there or
Jen: Thank you.
El Platypo: or it's supposed to show that he's not in his right mind to suggest that someone would be quasi-Cardassian totalitarian as opposed to Cardassian quasi-totalitarian.
Red D: Yes, I was thinking of him. His mind is juggled.
El Platypo: Maybe his mind is addled from the guilt of having responsibility for the deaths of billions of everyone he knows on his shoulder for 30 years.
Red D: Addled. Yeah, juggled.
El Platypo: I think we should be a bit more sympathetic here, people.
Red D: Jenny.
Jen: So I, I have just done, well I was busy doing my own research you see.
Red D: Hand raised.
El Platypo: I can't believe no one slated me for that last statement.
El Platypo: Oh, God, were you going to get the LA police officer seat uniform?
Jen: So here's
El Platypo: Yeah.
Red D: This is not a research podcast.
Jen: the thing.
Red D: Never mind.
El Platypo: is Yeah.
Jen: But here's the thing, because i couldn't really understand you guys, because I was like, I don't understand what they're saying, because to me, the way he said it is the way that makes sense. I don't understand why it would be the other way. So I looked up right, and quasi means according to Google.
Jen: um Apparently, but not really, i.e. seemingly. So he is not really, he's not really to Kardashian, which is very clear.
El Platypo: Seemingly Cardassian.
Jen: So it makes sense.
El Platypo: he's not but He's not seemingly Cardassian either.
Jen: Yeah, he's seemingly Kardashian from his behaviour because he's acting all authoritarian.
Red D: Yes.
El Platypo: Hang on. Hang on. night Neither all totalitarians are Cardassian, nor are all Cardassians totalitarians.
Jen: He's definitely not really Kardashian.
Red D: No, all Cardassians are totalitarian.
El Platypo: What, even the ones on Deep Space Nine?
Red D: Yes, you because you never know really if that tailor's good or bad. And he's the, uh, hmm.
Jen: But he doesn't, it he looks human, doesn't he?
Red D: Not to paint all the Cardassians.
El Platypo: Yeah, dude. what why you being so Why are you being so xenophobic? Just paint them all with one brush. Someone stand up for the right to cut that thing.
Red D: Oh yeah, we also meet that guy's daughter.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: She's very nice. That's true. Sorry, Jenny, you were saying.
Jen: Oh, just that, I mean, i think of it like he looks human. So he's, he saying, right, well, he's human. So he would only be seemingly Kardashian, not apparently, but not really.
Red D: And as you say, it doesn't have to be because of his appearance, but because he's- he's apparent, I think, that they've had interactions before. So he might just not like someone ah you know, trying to control his behavior because he's a nuisance on the streets kind of thing.
Red D: um Sorry, that's how he's portrayed.
El Platypo: That's a nuisance on the on the streets, fire between the sheets.
Red D: Yes, I was like, who's going to finish that for us? oh
El Platypo: Now, in the interests of backing up my research, I have just posted a photo of the LAPD formal uniform on the group, and you will find that it is a very dark navy blue.
Red D: um
El Platypo: So it has to be about his behaviour.
Red D: that's not what the character was wearing i'm sure he was wearing a lighter gray top or lighter top and darker pants i can't be 100 sure on the color
El Platypo: It was! it was!
Jen: Oh, see, I thought it was navy blue navy blue police uniform.
El Platypo: Yeah. Oh my goodness.
Red D: gosh maybe i just maybe the like mention of kardassian just transformed my experience of that
El Platypo: Yeah. Jeepers, dudes.
Jen: Mm.
El Platypo: How prejudiced is that? She hears Kardashian, she thinks, great. Sorry. i'm I'm desperately trying to play the alien card on someone tonight.
Red D: Okay, my turn, i think. um Okay, back to, um i mean, I'm still in early 1996 LA. I clearly want to go to there. But um I did like Tuvok's comment when they beamed down to the planet and they tried to blend in.
Red D: where're like and they I think, are they on Venice Beach or something? I can't actually remember. Maybe it's not even LA. But, you know, they're surrounded by the eccentrics of 1996 LA. Tuvok's like, we could of just worn our Starfleet uniforms.
Red D: No one would have even noticed. Like, And I love that comment.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Red D: And I think that also applies in London because you can wear whatever you want. You can go out on your pajamas. You can go out in your... Yesterday I saw dapper gentleman in like houndstooth suit, houndstooth hat, like a black and white houndstooth tie.
El Platypo: hell hell's tooth
Red D: Houndstooth, I think is the...
El Platypo: what is okay
Red D: Like a black and white check, let's just say. But like his suit, his jacket, his hat, then a purple tie.
El Platypo: okay
Red D: He looked great.
Jen: Yeah, you can walk your ferret.
Red D: was like... You can walk your parrots.
Jen: Seen that in London.
Red D: You can
Jen: Yep.
El Platypo: Yeah. You can walk your little crow that you keep in your pocket on a leash. i've I've seen that too.
Red D: You can wear like...
Jen: Yeah. and Oh, you can dress up with your friend in an entirely covering your entire body head to toe as a dinosaur. and stand stand on top of a road bridge with passing traffic underneath you and pretend to have dinosaur T-Rex fights.
El Platypo: On New Year fighting.
El Platypo: well Seen that as well, yep.
Jen: I've seen that.
El Platypo: New Year's, multiple times.
Red D: Did you see that or were you the dinosaurs?
Jen: Oh no, no we we saw it. Yeah, very distracting when you're driving.
El Platypo: I'll just say that one year we saw it.
Red D: Oh. So I like that comment and it just made me think of London.
El Platypo: I can't believe we're not leaping on the one year we saw it past that, but anyway.
Red D: Well, and then the next year you were those dinosaurs, is that what you were?
El Platypo: i and i I don't answer questions, that's what I do.
Red D: Okay. I'm trying now to think of, i've I mean, I'm sure I've seen a very, very exciting things. I think I've mentioned them all. So back to you, Jenny.
Red D: I know you're maybe on point two of three. ah
Jen: Yep, yep, I'm running out rapidly. um
El Platypo: If you run out of time this episode, just, you know, start repeating what gets posted repeatedly in the chat.
Jen: No, you know, I never have a problem, i never have a problem increasing the points during the chat because you guys make such interesting points and then I think, I think of more things to say.
El Platypo: It's it's it's a moment.
El Platypo: Aww.
Jen: um ne Well, fortunately, fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately, the second point is very long. So, um let me see if I can try and
Red D: Great. Go for it.
Jen: say it in a much more succinct way. um So yeah, when i watched this when was younger, I could never understand why the Starlink character doesn't just listen to what they say and then say, oh, right, okay, well, yeah, I won't take this time ship into the future then, because after all, he's gonna blow himself up as well as the solar system.
Red D: Oh, good point.
Jen: And I don't know why he, does he, so the question was like, does he meet these people immediately think they're lying to him? and
Red D: No, I have a question. I have a response, but when you finish, sorry.
Jen: Okay.
El Platypo: Yeah, stop interrupting, Red. God, can't believe you.
Red D: Just raised my hand.
El Platypo: Sorry. sorry
Jen: No, I mean, I know because the thing is, yeah, I may just have missed something that is, you know, some, some storyline that i aspect that I have ah failed to recognize, which would change this point entirely.
El Platypo: if
Jen: Because what then was went on to thinking about was how watching it as an adult, um I don't really, that doesn't really come to me as a question because I can just imagine the sort of person that would just refuse to listen to any information.
Jen: um And I think Janeway says at the beginning before they meet this guy that he clearly has a huge ego and that makes it very easy to imagine the kind of person who would actually go to their own destruction rather than listen to unheeded information, even if it's in their best interest.
Red D: Yes. Yeah.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: ah Yeah. I mean,
Jen: um Maybe I'm jaded from meeting terrible people as I grew up. I don't
Red D: no, but I think that's so interesting that like, I find that really interesting because as a kid, I a hundred percent understand you like that is so dumb. Why are they doing that? And then like, as an adult, you still think that's dumb.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: Why are they doing that? But you're less surprised, I guess.
Jen: know. Hmm.
Red D: um But I want to interrupt.
Jen: That is much clearer way.
Red D: Yes, sir, go ahead.
Jen: Now I was gonna say that's a but much better, clearer way of explaining it rather than my mumble jumble of words.
Red D: Because
Jen: Thank you.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: but because I was also going to say what you what you said reminded me of all the, you know, true true crime podcasts ah that I listened to and they were interviewing hosts of true crime podcasts and they were like saying is there a pattern, a type of person that is more, you know, have you identified a pattern of the people that are willing to commit a serious crime very often against someone they are actually in a relationship with let's say and they were like no it can be anybody, like you know there's no pattern but someone was like yes but a lot of people think they're going to get away with it
El Platypo: hmm
Red D: So I think there's that element of criminality in this character, whether it's intentionally or not, where he thinks he's smarter than everyone else and he can somehow profit from what he has and it won't end badly for him. He'll like, I'll smart everybody in the end.
Red D: Even though, sorry, I'm always relating a lot of stuff to true crime.
El Platypo: ah sister
Red D: But um maybe that's an element. He just thinks he's smarter than everyone else and he'll figure a way to not get blown up.
Jen: Yeah.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: It's even without any reasoning. That's the thing which gets me, like it's not even...
Red D: Yeah, yeah.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: No, because if they had to stop and reason, then they would realise that they are wrong.
Jen: yeah
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: yeah That is scary though that the true crime says, no, it can be anyone. You can murder your spouse. I'd be worried if I was you, Jamie.
Red D: Especially after he has she had to look after you all week.
El Platypo: Yeah, I'm vulnerable right now, man. If she gets me now, there's no one going to be able to help me.
Red D: ah Jamie, I also have to ask, what does MAGA stand for?
El Platypo: Margo.
Red D: That's... Ma- no, M-O-G-A, the picture that you sent in the chat that I'm trying to incorporate in live.
El Platypo: No, I didn't send... I sent MJGA. Dude, it's in the chat!
Red D: M, is that a J?
Jen: That's the make Jamie great again.
El Platypo: dude it's um it's in the chat
Red D: I'm looking at it, that looks like an O in the middle, M?
El Platypo: No, no, not the WhatsApp chat. It's it's in the actual this chat.
Red D: Yeah, I know, but I'm looking at the WhatsApp chat.
El Platypo: do you
Red D: This is...
El Platypo: i would like I am offended. i love it. I can be so annoyed right now. I'm offended do you think that I would be that bad at handwriting that I would spell it one way repeated times in one chat and then get it wrong the one time I write it down.
Red D: Oh wait.
Red D: I'm confused and my phone is running out of battery. So let's move on.
Jen: you
El Platypo: Yeah, and honestly, Red, can't we state a
Red D: Okay. So let me open this again. so that was Jenny. Jamie, your turn.
El Platypo: Oh, gosh. I actually need to bring sanity to this. Okay, so I had a bit of a thing throughout this episode, which is that basically um whilst I got past the whole time travel of Trump, there were still times when I found it annoying, and I ended up basically going with... like who's neelix now like who's doing something really really ah you just just very very silly indeed um and in the first instance the holder of the neelix currently neelix spoon is whoever basically plays the part of neelix giving away the fact they're actually you know
El Platypo: a landing party from a ship to the people who've got no idea about that whatsoever. And it sort of goes from Branson, and this is the worst insight you can throw him his way, trying to be Neelix deliberately by telling everyone he's from a different planet and just not being taken seriously. So that's failed Neelix.
El Platypo: um So from then...
Red D: By Neelix, you mean the person that sets off all the chaos in the episode?
El Platypo: By being discovered, yes, as the member of the landing party.
Red D: Oh, okay.
El Platypo: So then it goes from Branson to Tom when he's answering Sarah Silverman, asking which college he went to, and he goes, Starfleet Academy, somewhere on the East Coast.
El Platypo: And I'm like, okay, you're Neelix now. To Neelix, just for, like... being taken by the ultimate soap opera who's the father cliche, ah to me then just ending up writing in despair that Voyager is Neelix as it gets seen for 10k up in the atmosphere randomly doing flybys a la Top Gun over the building of Mr. Starling.
El Platypo: So many people were Neelix this episode, I feel.
Red D: Jamie, that was some very impressive, I guess not literature literary, but TV analysis, I have to say.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Red D: um
El Platypo: I'm quite... i mean, I'm offended by the fact you don't think I'm capable of impressive analysis. Always the tone of surprise.
Red D: and never said you would have would, never said that, but that is a next level analysis, I think.
El Platypo: Well...
Red D: I was like, of course the X loves soap operas. That's hilarious. And I love the scene of Voyager flying over LA. Makes me happy. Jamie's like, oh.
El Platypo: wonder how they I wonder how they're getting discovered this away mission. They don't have Neelix down there to do the job for them.
Red D: So that is really interesting. If I was smarter, I would come up with a better response. But I think that was really interesting.
El Platypo: Sorry.
Red D: Make Jamie great again. Now, speaking of Captain...
Red D: Braxton or Brattonston.
El Platypo: Branston.
Red D: So, um, uh, well, actually you had a few things to say about him. So maybe I'll wrap them all up. I did really feel for him when we find out he's been LA for like 30 years.
Red D: Has he been homeless the whole time?
El Platypo: Indeed, that's desperate.
Red D: And he was sent to an institution.
El Platypo: That's hard lines.
Red D: I was like, that's a huge, that, yeah, that's a lot to take in because it happened due to this time walk basically.
El Platypo: Hmm.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: um I did think he reminded me of Gandalf when in the moment where he was like, Voyager fools. And it reminded me of run you fools or whatever from Gandalf.
El Platypo: Hmm just just accept that you must all die now for my future you fools
Red D: ah And then when he was explaining A to B to c did anyone understand what you're saying? Because I was making notes. I was like, can anyone explain the sequence of events that mean they, everything lands up being exploded?
El Platypo: yeah Yes, but he's incorrect by his own logic.
Jen: I'll try, I'll try yeah so he's odd so it's a loop and they don't know what came first chicken or egg so
Red D: Jenny! Yes. yes
Jen: um A. There was a massive explosion, solar system destroyed in his time and in the debris they found evidence of Voyager and then B. He went back in time to try and destroy a Voyager to stop it happening and then C. By doing that um he was put into this situation where he was taken to 90s LA, Voyager followed him and met him and his time ship which led back to the situation A, i.e. Voyager and his time ship colliding to create the explosion.
Jen: that right?
Red D: Great. Yeah, I think that is right. i That makes sense to me. But as I said, I wasn't... Jamie, you you think there's a flaw in the logic of the this Branston?
El Platypo: I do, but I mostly feel that way because Branson is a character from Downton Abbey. No, mean...
Jen: Bye.
El Platypo: i mean The logic breaks down when it keeps trying to switch responsibility between Voyager and his space probe. And because to take action as direct as destroying Voyager, they would need to be the direct causal agent as opposed to just on the scene of and the evidence pointing actually to his vehicle.
El Platypo: um And it's also not sufficient to allow him to use the trope of, yes, but actually no, but actually yes, when he's asked, is actually Voyager's fault?
El Platypo: It's not. It's his for trying to destroy them to prevent it that actually does it. um But I suppose in the throes of 30-year-old trauma and insanity, he's probably not ascribing...
El Platypo: ethical causality, particularly rationally. So I suppose that's acceptable from a plot writing perspective.
Red D: Again, sign up for Jamie's Philosophy Podcast, available on other channels.
El Platypo: sorry i Sorry, I trained off
El Platypo: that. sir Was that a bit rambling? I beg your pardon.
Red D: No, I liked it.
Jen: No, made complete sense.
Red D: I liked it. I think you guys really helped I had that question. So back to you, Jenny.
Jen: Oh, well, my mind is far away in the philosophical, yeah, yeah, the loop and yeah, I mean, there's this other episode, I don't know if we've done it yet or if it's coming up, where they get stuck in the, it's like Groundhog Day, isn't it?
El Platypo: Ethical causality.
Jen: It reminds me of that left episode, can't remember very well now, but like,
Red D: oh oh
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: and then somehow one of them realizes that they're repeating and then they have to try and break out of it and this' that's quite a good episode.
Red D: yes
Jen: Anyway, I won't ruin that one by chatting on about now. Yeah, I did start to run out a little bit of things to say at this point. So the only thing I could think to point put down was um I thought it was a weird decision that when they first went through the time, what do you call it?
Jen: to the I don't know what it, do you know, does anyone know what calls? Where they they get pulled in into 1996 through some kind of space chasm?
Red D: Yes, but they they didn't they didn't use like normal terms.
Jen: I don't
Red D: They like said, I don't know, disturbed protons or something. i don't I don't know. So I also don't know the terms.
Jen: know. it was something like that. Anyway, they go through, crash, find, wallop, and then ah the scene is everyone recovering and you know getting up from the floor. And Jamie stands up from the floor and um you know starts doing her hair.
El Platypo: ah Also, does anyone see that weird ball thing on the floor as well when she's getting up from it?
Jen: What? What? Why? What?
El Platypo: There's a weird sort of one of those suckery balls that maybe I think she's been serving.
Red D: Oh.
Jen: Oh, it's the tennis ball. You know, she takes, it doesn't.
El Platypo: It doesn't look like a tennis ball.
Red D: Yeah.
El Platypo: It looks like a ball of suckers.
Jen: Yeah, it's a very, maybe that's the type of tennis ball they use on board a spaceship because then if it crashes into a window, it just gets stuck on the window rather than, you know, well, you'd hope a tennis ball wouldn't smash them.
Red D: know but
Jen: ship window, yep, they're bit stronger than that.
El Platypo: What is...
Jen: But yeah, she takes it with her into the captain's chair and then all the way through that scene for some reason.
El Platypo: Hmm.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: Anyway, these are minor details.
Red D: I didn't notice her fix her hair, but I thought the way she got up was a little bit, I don't know how to say this, like, um, underwhelming considering they've just gone through something quite major.
Red D: Like she seemed like kind of fine.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Like, oh, okay. Somehow. Yeah. So I guess like, I also noticed something about that little moment that I, um, was a bit, uh, off kilter or something.
Jen: again that
El Platypo: Mm-hmm.
Red D: and I mean, you noticed her hair. notice that bit, but yeah.
Jen: It was an odd one. Yeah, I don't know if... I mean probably it's just one of these things they didn't really... maybe they just didn't even think about it at the time. don't know.
Red D: No, because it's just a little... I mean, no, she doesn't have a line, or or she goes into some lines. They just gotta, like, somehow... um And it is difficult.
Red D: I know it is difficult to look like you've just... You're in a battle scene, or you are, because they're having to do all the shaking and everything themselves a lot of the time.
Jen: you
Red D: so yeah. um And Jamie, you said something about the scene as well. Oh, the ball. Yeah. So we all picked up something a little bit odd, but...
El Platypo: I'm
Red D: so Okay, well, Jamie, you've got a bit of time to think of some more points as we move around the circle. Jamie, back to you.
El Platypo: umm So, I mean, I have one very, very brief point, but then I have another one that's ah HR related, so of course it must take all of our time. ah The first one is, did anyone notice when we're shown Starling's office for the first time, the photo of Starling and Nixon suggesting he's a wrong one?
Red D: No, I didn't see that.
Jen: No.
El Platypo: We need to...
Jen: I saw was on the cover of like Time magazine or something.
El Platypo: I don't
Red D: Oh, okay, so he was really positioned at this powerful...
El Platypo: know.
El Platypo: asshole place, because he was also positioned in a framed photograph of Richard Nixon, the person who was fired for Watergate and corruption.
Red D: Yes.
Red D: Watergate. Such innocent times.
El Platypo: Yeah, when when people would jump when they did the wrong thing.
Jen: Hmm.
Red D: Yes, that sadly is over. Wow, people just cling on. No shame. um I...
Jen: you
Red D: um Oh, I didn't see that. I guess I was writing down. But I think I've seen that in previous watches. But it's a good way of, like, setting the scene or giving an indication of the characters.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: So I do enjoy it when I spot those things.
El Platypo: I agree. um And shall I go on to my HR-related point?
Red D: No, because I have...
El Platypo: or noy Oh, no, do you? Oh, no! Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Red D: Because I have...
El Platypo: M'chka has been halted.
Red D: No, because I have some more than... I have more than one. that Not that I'll have to do them all, but... um I did, so this is very random, but Kez and Neelix, two of your favorite characters, Jamie and Jamie.
El Platypo: I love Kez.
Red D: Good. But I really enjoyed that they were given the task of monitoring all the news feeds. And it reminded me of some of the work that I do because they were doing some social listening. They had developed an algorithm, given it some keywords, and to check for any mentions of, like, sightings of Voyager, I guess.
Jen: Yeah.
Red D: And I And I was like,
El Platypo: um I know. know.
Red D: um and maybe i'll wrap in the other like tech thing but for some reason i gave you a real kick when that starling guy was like oh she's already emailed her colleague or something i was like email and in my mind i'm like that's all tech i'm like no we still use email today for some reason i was like because when i listen to the office ladies podcast sometimes that someone will use like a
Jen: Thank you.
El Platypo: Hmm. Yeah.
Red D: Blackberry or fax and they'll be like, ah, old tech alerts. So I was like, email, old tech alerts. Then I'm like, no, I used email today. It's still around. But for some reason, 1986 was, I guess, a fairly early mention of email.
Red D: Although I'm not sure. So yes, I really was thrilled that I grew up and did Kez and New York's job, basically, now as an adult. So socialistic.
Red D: Um... Janie, do you have anything else? Did that strike it, spark any thoughts? Exactly. I don't
Jen: Oh, yes. Well, no, i was I was about to be feeling like i was way out of date when you were talking about email being, I thought you were going to say it was really ah an old tool that, you know, no one uses anymore.
Jen: I was about to be horrified because I use it all the time in my job outside.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Jen: my God.
Red D: like, oh, email, that's old fashioned.
Jen: I mean,
Red D: No, I use that to today. i don't know.
Jen: I mean, but to be fair, it is old fashioned in that it has been around for a really long time now in in the context of, don't know, there's a lot of new stuff constantly coming out.
Red D: Yeah. Yeah.
Jen: And right now it's all about AI and chat DTP and things. And, you know, there's this whole period of like a decade or so after the internet when it was all social media and the first time Facebook appeared.
Jen: on um So by that frame of reference, email seems very old.
Red D: yeah
Jen: It seems, it's been, don't know, many tens of years. ah can't think when. don't get what you're saying.
Red D: Yes, I think i I still remember. I do still remember because I guess the World Wide Web was invented before email. But I'm pretty sure I can still remember watching on the news a news item about the first email that was sent. Or like the first, let's say, outside of the university, you know, when it went like mainstream.
Red D: um So I do remember that.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Jen: I read some sort of, I don't know, I guess it was a meme or something recently about, you know, a bunch of, an office, someone played a sound on YouTube that was the old dial-up modem sound and all the millennials perked up their heads like, like a, what are those little animals that perk up meerkat, you know, as if they were, all the millennial meerkats were being called home to their place of, um,
El Platypo: census
Red D: poked up but ah be a beer cat
Red D: yes take me home I'll come that's so funny I need to see that um okay so Jamie however you want to proceed How many points do you have left?
Jen: Belonging.
El Platypo: assistance
El Platypo: Well, I...
Red D: feel like you want to address the HR issue, so go for it.
El Platypo: I mean, you realise that all that you've done by saying that is guaranteed that I don't say it next, because I have to be contrary. So I actually want to address Tuvok's behaviour in The Getaway by Van, and I absolutely love the fact that in what is presumably their filming of the stunt gone wrong...
Red D: Oh, yes.
El Platypo: Tuvok running into and diving into the van to get away from pursuit is not done smoothly and stylishly. It's done with him absolutely tw at getting twatted on the backside by the van moving off as he dives into it in a way that's far more realistic than would be the case if someone you know did it in Hollywood style, just straight in without it. But he just gets absolutely... Oh,
Red D: I did notice that. was like, oops.
El Platypo: nexted on the backside by the van moving off as he's mid-dive into it.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: is
El Platypo: So I just thought we should take a moment to appreciate the visual comedy of the moment.
Jen: Yeah, it's I was going to say there is quite a contrast the to, ah you know, the Benedict Cumberbatch.
El Platypo: 30 to 40 second silence would be appropriate. So...
Jen: and I mean, I know it's not the same species, but um Khan when he's playing Khan and he's the guy who plays Tuvok in the movie.
El Platypo: Oh, shit. Come on! Hmm.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: And they're both
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: is very Hollywood. The scenes with them where they're fighting, and where they're running, and when they're jumping from van to flying hovercraft van in the skies of Earth above Starplate Academy, it's exactly what you're describing.
Red D: oh
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: Oh, yes.
Jen: It's very Hollywood and they look very super superhero cool doing it. um So yeah, it's bit of contrast from good old Tuvok and Voyager.
Red D: Which one do you prefer? or do you like both?
Jen: and like both.
Red D: Okay. Yes, but it's funny because I noticed that. I was like, ah I wonder if that's how it was supposed to happen.
El Platypo: hmm yeah
Jen: Thank you.
Red D: But he made it in the band. I guess in a sense, watching it, was like, oh is he going to make it? So that was good. But not sure it was intentional. um Okay, so I think it's my turn.
Red D: I only have small things really left. But I have to say, I did think that Chakotay and Janeway made a very good 90s power couple.
El Platypo: yeah
Red D: Like the way they were dressed. I almost had like um kind of small, I know their style is actually quite different, but they almost might reminded me like a couple out of the Matrix.
El Platypo: sustain
Red D: um Like, a so the they were very stylish. I mean, i wouldn't say should they should dress like that now, but they were a very stylish 90s power couple.
El Platypo: it's bit like huge in Japan stylish for the I agree
Red D: yeah to Yeah, but I yeah i like their style.
El Platypo: ah agreeham
Red D: They blend it in.
El Platypo: Yeah, does Janeway blend in in the you know massive white suit of enormous bagginess on the beach where no one else is in a suit?
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: I think it's pretty 90s.
El Platypo: No, it's pretty 90s, but it's not pretty LA beach-ish.
Red D: True, but it was very much suited maybe the office, the styling office.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: um
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: But I enjoyed them. But I don't want to say anything that might set Jamie off for not giving his point later.
Jen: laughs
El Platypo: Oh, well.
Red D: And maybe while I was to wrap up, so... in terms of like their disguises. I thought they looked great. Tuvok's like hat just to hide his ears because that would just give them away. Although Sarah Silderman character spots them. But the way he just tries to pass them off as a family trait was quite funny.
El Platypo: No, he doesn't.
Red D: was like, I guess you could
El Platypo: He doesn't. He doesn't. Tom Paris does, and he turns that into a diss. It's a family trait. They're a bit sensitive about it.
Red D: Yeah, but I was like, I guess, because I was like, oh my gosh, if she sees his is, that's like a huge giveaway. And then he just, they come up with an explanation. Yeah.
Red D: Jenny, anything you want to throw in As we wrap up, I guess.
Jen: Was that was that Jamie or Jenny?
Red D: Jenny. Jenny.
Jen: Ah, ah um not really. I was just thinking that, I don't know if I was that lady in that situation and I saw the ears. I don't know that I would jump to alien though. I think I think there's just something wrong with this is. But maybe that's just me.
Red D: Well, nowadays you'd think someone has had surgery on their ears, but...
El Platypo: in a
Jen: Yes.
El Platypo: Well, actually, I had an experience when I was very, very young in school that makes me think of this slightly. So that was... like I was about three or four.
El Platypo: And this was in a school which had kids up to... the Girls up to 13, boys up to, I think, five or six. um But there was a girl there who had, like, enormous canines
Red D: Why isn't anyone doing anything
El Platypo: gent genuinely like like pair pair of vampire teeth in sort of thing and i saw a tv program about vampires and then i sort of saw this girl you know that same year and was like is it this that is that not is that is that is that and i was like is it a vampire is this just some poor girl and like honestly i spent
Jen: Thank
Red D: about this?
El Platypo: the the entire year batshit terrifying mean this poor this girl thankfully like was years older than me it didn't have a clue that I was you know going through this whole crisis of yeah a vampire are vampires real um ah or is this just you know normal because everyone else seems to be acting as though it's normal just ah does that just mean that you know some people get teeth like that or that vampires are normal and walk amongst us um So I can actually empathise with the perspective that Jenny says, that people would just write it off as, you know, an affectation or an odd condition.
Red D: Oh, the three-year-olds. Oh.
Red D: Oh.
Jen: Okay.
Red D: Oh, wow.
El Platypo: If it's, you know, just one-off and treated and acted and styled out as completely normal.
Red D: Yeah, sorry, I'm i am just thinking about you as a three-year-old kid, so cute.
Jen: Mm-hmm.
Red D: Anyway. um Right, Jamie, do you want to give us perhaps a final point or two?
El Platypo: Well, I hope... I hope this isn't... hypocritical in the wake of what I just said, but I wanted to sound this episode's vaguely sexist screenwriting klaxon alarm, which I've decided to make a thing on all featured podcasts. Can we take a moment to consider Chakotay reacting to Captain Janeway saying, that woman who just passed us scantily clad, in brackets, my observation, could be my great-great-grandmother.
El Platypo: And Chakotay looking back and going, she has your legs. Can we take a moment just to consider on that?
Jen: Thank
El Platypo: And also the whole, why is Tom's modest operandi of flirting with Sarah Silverman's character? Lean over her close and then mansplain her own research to her.
El Platypo: I just, I quite enjoyed those. And I wanted to put those to you as this week's example of vaguely sexist screenwriting, clacks and lull.
Red D: well when you gave the example the well i guess my example but the one of jacote and janeway and you re-explained the joke i'm like oh that's really funny because like he's making the joke about i forgot that that she could have been related like um so but when i heard it i was like oh that's uh
El Platypo: yes
Red D: I'm always seeing a little bit light floating, which never leads anywhere. But Jenny?
El Platypo: You sound disappointed by this rant.
Red D: Also,
El Platypo: You sound disappointed.
Jen: Yeah, I mean, I've got to say I did not pick up on particularly on those two. And, you know, I am a bit like hyper alert to the Voyager people leaning over people and naturally closely, especially men over women.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Jen: That seems to happen a lot in the Voyager universe, but I didn't really notice it so much.
Red D: yeah.
Jen: I think Jogod is just making a joke and then Tom's flirting, you know, and she's kind of flirting back.
Red D: Yeah. no
Jen: So...
Red D: Also, we didn't see that other woman's legs. So maybe we were terrible. I don't know. afraid so. so
El Platypo: I mean, that that's not a good career move if if you're not the skipper.
Red D: no
Jen: I suppose it is a little bit, I guess it's flirty isn't it because if you if it was just a joke and not flirty you'd say well she has your eyes, not your legs.
El Platypo: Yeah. Can I take it therefore that once again this week, I have virtue signalled in vain and I sounded the klaxon mistakenly, mistakenly.
Red D: so And we shut it down.
El Platypo: That is really disappointing as someone who yearns to be the HR rep for this podcast. But okay, I acknowledge the error on your side and the joint work will do to change you.
Red D: Okay. Yeah, maybe maybe I need to change. I'll become a little sensitive.
Jen: Yeah.
El Platypo: Oh, it's not easy.
Red D: um um Right. I think I have a final point from myself. But um this episode, I guess we end on kind of a cliffhanger in the sense that um because they're monitoring the TV networks, is it Harry?
Red D: Or someone is like, oh, Janeway, you need to see this.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: And it's the footage of Voyager flying over. Leia has been captured on your own someone's, I guess not phone, but some amateur footage.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: And it's a huge deal, I guess, in this episode.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: But... It just made me laugh because those types of videos come out all the time. And they always, like like, they always, there's always, I presume, some non-alien explanation. Like, I think even last year, there was, like, a spate of these things seen over, I don't think it was that way, some way.
Red D: And I was like, oh, is this really aliens now? And then it just fades into the background. So it seemed like already a really big deal. But I was like, you know what? These people see these videos all the time. You don't have to worry for it, Jim.
Red D: Just um stay calm and carry on, i guess, as some British people say. And maybe maybe we should mention that ah the Doctor lands up on Earth, even as Voyager is flying away, because the Starling character downloaded it from Voyager.
El Platypo: Keep calm and carry on.
Red D: So just a little plot point to mention before we wrap up.
El Platypo: I agree. I think it's it's worth keeping on podcasters. focused on the fact that in spite of the fact that Starling appears to hold all the cards. To quote the crystal method, there is still hope.
Red D: twist yes and uh jenny what do you think if you saw a video like that of uh what would you think would you think it's a real starship or aliens or
Jen: Well, I mean, my default setting is always like, oh, there's some explanation. you know So I wouldn't be excited.
El Platypo: yeah Yeah, like mine with that girl's canines.
Red D: yes
Jen: I do sometimes think, though, that if anything ever did happen, i would definitely miss it because I would just immediately dismiss it as some reasonable explanation.
Jen: you know so if there was any kind of extraterrestrial signal, it would be lost on me.
Red D: oh that's funny, they went to summit, decent, reasonable explanation and okay i guess i was gonna say and on that note but actually we still have themes and star player so who's ready for a theme?
El Platypo: Time travel.
Red D: i'll go, time travel
Jen: yeah that's the only one I was thinking of
Red D: My theme is I want to go to l LA and I need to stick to my plan. I want to drive across America and get to LA in time for the Olympics and go watch some of Olympics.
El Platypo: um Amazing.
Jen: oh wow wouldn't mind seeing LA
Red D: and This reminded me of that plan.
El Platypo: Great shot. I love that.
Red D: I would like to go. ah So time travel, anything else you want to throw in there before we do start clear?
El Platypo: I think development opportunities for the minions as we quite clearly see that Harry steps up.
Red D: Ah, yes. think, yeah, I did a good job.
El Platypo: Acting up does the job. and do-oo-oo to-oo do I think the possibility that the entirety of the 20th century computing boom and by extension the Matrix is caused by that asshole time-travelling his ship back and giving it to Starling should be kept in mind.
Jen: technology
Red D: Also, but go ahead.
Jen: think technology is a theme isn't it it's like you know we can't beat him because he's got since 29th century technology and we're only century and then And then the poor lady at Zeti with her 1990s technology and the whole idea of how stuff just becomes out of date and obsolete.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Oh yes.
El Platypo: Hmm.
El Platypo: hmm hmm
Red D: yeah
Jen: What was once it's viewed as, you know, the future.
Red D: Yeah. Also, there was that little moment where Janeway is explaining to Chakotay that in 2047, there was a big earthquake and LA was submerged and it's now a great coral reef, which I guess now we're closer to 2047 than when the episode came out.
El Platypo: Hmm. Hmm.
Red D: You're like, ooh, that's, a you know, like film and TV, when things that were very far in the future are getting closer. You're like, I don't know. It always just makes me think.
Red D: Okay. Star Player.
Red D: I'm happy to kick us off, I think, if we...
Jen: Yeah, you go first, Red.
Red D: I am going to do the... I don't actually... I think you said her character name, but I did like the Sarah Silverman character. um
El Platypo: hmm
Red D: I thought she... I mean, it does i was I did Google, like, why was she in Star Trek? Because she's not a standard comedian.
El Platypo: hmm hmm
Red D: And then I think at the time she was interviewed in, she was like, oh, I don't want to be in sitcoms. not very good. I want to play... play, I mean, I don't know at the time what was happening in the sitcom world. um She was like, I want to be on a more serious show, but where the comedy is, now maybe I'm making this up, but a bit more natural, or you know not like over the top of it.
Red D: And I think she did bring a lot of comedy to the role, um even just some of her expressions and stuff, so I did enjoy it.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: And I liked that chemistry that was building between her and Tom.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: So she'll be my star player.
El Platypo: Okay. That's interesting. So I would like to give mine on the basis of achieving celebrity in outer space first. And I would like to award that to Blaine's twin brother from the soap opera.
El Platypo: has an elix hooked on his saga.
Red D: Very good. ah But do you remember the line that she gave the not father of her child, but twin brother of the father of her child?
El Platypo: What does it matter? It'll still be genetically ours or something like that. that
Red D: Very good.
Jen: Okay, in that case, then I will have to give it to Harry because, you know, he's in the chair, he made had to make a call under pressure and he did it and it was the right call and
Red D: Aww.
Jen: poor thing doesn't get promotion for seven years so we've got give something.
Red D: but he'll get star players.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: So that's good.
El Platypo: What does he do so wrong for the next seven years after that shining star? Gosh.
Red D: Yeah. As Jane said.
Jen: I mean possibly he does get something. They get those little buttons on their neck don't they when they get they move up ranks. I can't really remember.
Red D: Yeah.
Jen: I just yeah it comes up
Red D: I mean, it's not something, yeah, it's not something i ever noticed myself, but when I started listening to Delta flyers and all, it's always like, ah, Harry you never got promoted.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Poor Harry. I was like, ah, I wasn't really, I didn't care about promotions as a kid, so I wasn't paying attention.
Jen: Yeah, yeah, that's only something that occurred to me re-watching it. isnt i
Red D: Well, very...
Jen: I think they do have an episode on it though where it is a theme, like how do you manage when you know no one can stop doing the job that they were initially brought on to do?
Jen: Because in the real world, you even if you're not promoted, you would move on to different projects to learn different skills to you know grow.
El Platypo: Hmm.
El Platypo: You go crazy. Yeah.
Jen: Yeah, so how to avoid that. I think it does come up by current episode.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Red D: Well, we're in season three. that That will come up eventually. But I'm going to hit the jingle. And thanks, guys. I guess we'll see you for part two.
Red D: Future Zen, part two.
Jen: Oh, not another one.
El Platypo: Hmm.
Jen: No, I'm joking. I'm joking.
El Platypo: Can't wait! It'll be magnificent!
Red D: Oh, I don't know when that's going to come up because I might be in Mexico in two weeks' time.
Jen: Oh, nice.
Red D: But we'll be in touch. We'll...
El Platypo: I will not generate a new appendicitis to avoid another time travel episode. I can assure you of that.
Jen: listen
Red D: Yes, I guess you can't lose another appendix. Okay,
El Platypo: Munchka, munchka, munchka.
Jen: and It's gone.
Red D: don't hang up. Bye.
