Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
We watch "Q and the Grey" (S3 Ep.11)
18 Plays16 days ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Q and the Grey", in which Jamie reunites with his spirit animal and we update our knowledge about war poetry a tiny bit.
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.
Theme music by Alain D
Recommended
Transcript
Episode Kickoff: Moderation and Ad-libbing
00:00:00
Jamie
So when you say it's like brand new, talk me through that.
00:00:00
Jen
Feels like the first time.
00:00:03
Jamie
Is it not a case of just click on something?
00:00:06
Red D
Oh no, the technical side of things is easy, but like, I guess because we rotate the moderator, then I'm like, oh, do I have to see what the episode is? I forgot how to do that. Ah, what's jiggle?
00:00:17
Red D
Is there my jiggle?
00:00:19
Jamie
You mean you you guys don't just ad lib everything you say all the time your whole life?
00:00:19
Red D
No,
00:00:25
Red D
I don't think I've ever ad-libbed. Every sentence that's come out of my mouth has been pre-prepared for at least three minutes.
00:00:31
Jen
Hmm.
00:00:31
Jamie
really need to try a living. It's vastly relaxing.
00:00:36
Red D
I do want to...
00:00:36
Jamie
i mean, it can get you into trouble sometimes when you tell people what they're really like.
00:00:40
Red D
Oh, yes. There's almost no chance of me doing that. but No dancing this evening, guys.
00:00:48
Jamie
All my dancing is going under the table. It's like the truest representation of the Riverdons.
00:00:55
Red D
I actually watched some rubber dancing recently.
00:00:55
Jamie
I
00:00:57
Red D
It's very impressive.
00:00:59
Jamie
didn't know you frequented those sorts of
Thematic Discussion: 'The Q and the Grey' Metaphors
00:01:02
Red D
My YouTube algorithm is very...
00:01:02
Jamie
Red. Hmm? right
00:01:05
Red D
weird i can't explain what's going on but okay i think we're nearly at the end of the jingle so i'm just gonna let it play out and uh welcome back for season three episode 11 the q and the gray i was reading that was about to say the q and i like the king and i or something
00:01:11
Jamie
Word.
00:01:21
Jen
Yeah.
00:01:26
Jamie
Red, this is why we're doing this podcast. You are actually Janeway, aren't you? Took a long time to acquire the South African accent when you came back in time, but I applaud you for it.
00:01:32
Jen
High compliment.
00:01:36
Red D
Oh, not sure what you're talking about. But um the Q and the Grey, do we know what that title might be referring to? Jamie, you you and Jamie know a lot more sci-fi references than I do, so...
00:01:49
Jen
Yeah, it's bit mystery to me too. I feel like I'm missing something really obvious.
00:01:52
Jamie
Yeah.
00:01:54
Jen
Q in the grave.
00:01:54
Jamie
I mean, there's always the good and the bad, the white and the black. I don't know, cute and gray.
00:01:59
Red D
that are not things, but anyway.
00:02:02
Jamie
Yeah.
00:02:03
Red D
Okay.
00:02:04
Jamie
There is some sort of juxtaposition there. Maybe it's between the Q with all of his individualism and the grey of all the other Qs who just want him to... I don't know.
00:02:15
Jamie
What's the word when you just suck it up and go with the flow? And don't don't you dare say a professional career in corporate services.
00:02:23
Red D
It sounded a bit like my life story. So I don't know.
00:02:26
Jamie
Succumb. Succumb.
00:02:28
Jen
Toning it in.
00:02:30
Red D
Phone negative. Yeah. Well, welcome back everybody.
Listener Engagement and Humorous Recap
00:02:35
Red D
And we had quite a few downloads the last month. So I have no idea how to tell if anyone who's listened to it once ever listens again.
00:02:38
Jamie
Oh gosh.
00:02:43
Red D
But thank you for downloading.
00:02:45
Jamie
We'd take an email. We'd take an email. Just let us know, people.
00:02:49
Red D
Yeah. The emails and the show notes. Um, ah Yeah, so Jamie, Jenny, well back to Jamie, i think you're up for a one minute summary.
00:02:59
Jamie
Now, Red, once again, I'm going to prove to you that ad-libbing is the way, because I'm about to completely ad-lib this.
00:03:05
Red D
I blew my mind.
00:03:07
Jamie
I am not blowing anything, young Red. I am not blowing anything. um So, this is The Cue and the Grey, an incredible episode in which our band of, frankly, in some cases, slightly horny-seeming explorers, experience the attentions of a cue, inadvertently are the cause of multiple supernovae, yes, it is a word, as their skipper refuses the cue's proposal to end a galactic civil war by god-like beings by mating with him and instead resolve this through the medium of getting Q back together with his ex of a few billion years relationship time with one of the most graphic
00:03:56
Jamie
macing scenes, to use their terminology, that I have ever seen in Star Trek at the very end. And one poses a question that I would like both my fellow podcasters and our listeners to render a view on, given the commentary that came after. But more of that anon.
00:04:13
Jamie
All ad-libbed.
00:04:15
Red D
Excellent, Jamie. I mean, yes, we know that you are not preparing your one minute summary at a time and every time.
00:04:20
Jamie
I'm just reliving the last two decades of my career.
00:04:23
Red D
Yeah, it's brilliant. I think that was a very good summary. Covered all the salient points.
00:04:27
Jamie
Is that a salute or is that a hand up?
00:04:30
Jen
that' was That was both.
00:04:31
Jamie
Oh gosh, right.
00:04:31
Red D
ah
00:04:32
Jen
A salute and a hand up um because i was I was intrigued by the title.
00:04:33
Jamie
but Noble blocker, to you.
00:04:38
Jen
So I looked up.
00:04:40
Red D
Oh, great.
00:04:40
Jen
Yeah, and ah it's okay, guys. We wouldn't have really known.
Civil War Metaphor Explained
00:04:45
Jen
It's definitely a US Civil War metaphor thing.
00:04:47
Red D
Oh, that makes sense.
00:04:48
Jen
Yeah, I still don't really get it.
00:04:48
Red D
But carry on. Sorry.
00:04:51
Jen
is So the Q is the blue. um
00:04:55
Jamie
Oh, the blue and the grey.
00:04:55
Jen
um Advocates for radical new ideas. The gray is the grey which represents the conservative faction and it's a play on the title of a famous poem the blue and the grey about the American Civil War so there we are
00:05:11
Red D
oh
00:05:12
Jamie
It's also a television miniseries that first aired on CBS in their installments in November 1982, set during the American Civil War.
00:05:24
Red D
thank you jenny that really helps because um that ties in with what happens you know they turn on the episode it makes it all seem a bit more cohesive so that is very helpful to know um and
00:05:34
Jen
I was curious.
00:05:36
Red D
Yeah, I was gonna about to try typing the letters quietly on my laptop, but then you beat me too.
00:05:40
Jamie
The
00:05:41
Red D
very um um very
00:05:45
Jamie
silence is overrated.
00:05:45
Red D
I'm very happy. Sorry, i don't know why I'm like well losing my train thought. But back to ah initial reactions.
Character Reflection: Q's Role and Performance
00:05:53
Red D
Well, Jamie, I'm going to start with you because when I saw this episode and I saw Q in the title, i was like, oh, Jamie's going to love this because I believe you love Q, if I remember correctly.
00:06:01
Jamie
um It's not so much a case of love as he's my spirit creature. Or, let's be honest, spirit animal.
00:06:05
Red D
Yes.
00:06:06
Jamie
No, it was amazing. I mean, in what other series would you be able to witness supernovae from the deck of your own starship, turn down sex with a godlike being, only to find out that that you were so due to prolonging a period during which supernovae were going off?
00:06:25
Jamie
and then in invade the literal realm of the gods portrayed so that your puny mind could understand it as the American Civil War and not only invade it but beat them with their own weapons whilst rein reliving your own American Civil War fantasy up to and including the cavalry are coming summoned by Trumpet Corps.
00:06:48
Jamie
In what other ah sci-fi franchise would this happen, I ask you? ah Answer, nothing and none. And so, yeah, I loved every bit of its Q-ish flouncy glory.
00:07:01
Red D
Oh, great. And Jenny, how did you feel about this episode?
00:07:05
Jamie
Yeah.
00:07:07
Jen
I feel exactly the same it's the joint love of Q any episode that the Q are in I tend to really like I just think they're always uh fascinating and they tend to be a bit philosophical they have all these discussions about time and life and death and you know existence and all these things
00:07:10
Red D
Oh.
00:07:21
Jamie
I feel a kinship with his courtship rituals.
00:07:30
Jamie
Yes.
00:07:30
Red D
Yeah, i really I think the last time I saw the Q was in that episode where that one Q wanted to end his life because he was very tired of being in the continuum. or But I feel like I am more one of the people with a tiny brain that is trying to understand the Q more.
00:07:39
Jamie
yes
00:07:47
Red D
I don't know if it's literally. And I really struggle. But um I'm always happy to see John Delancey as Q. He is really good, i think. um
00:07:56
Jen
yeah that's true I don't know maybe it's nothing to do with philosophy it's just that he's a really hilarious actor isn't it he plays that role really well
00:07:56
Red D
And so, yeah.
00:08:07
Red D
No, I think it's because I need to know how things work at the concrete level. So these queue really like blow my mind, but I tried to pay more attention and enjoy the episode for what it was and the framing, which is one of my points later on.
00:08:12
Jen
Oh!
00:08:13
Jamie
Mmm.
00:08:19
Red D
So um I have one cool thing, which no one reacted to in the notes, but it's not really about this episode of Star Trek. It's more about what we discussed last time.
Exploring Sci-fi: 'Scanners', 'Farscape', and 'Stargate'
00:08:29
Red D
But remember when you, Jamie, you were like, and the last episode we had, referenced scanners.
00:08:37
Red D
So
00:08:38
Jamie
Tell me you didn't watch that movie because that thing gives nightmares.
00:08:41
Red D
I mean, I watched it until the first head exploded and then I was like, I've seen it.
00:08:43
Jamie
ah Yeah, so like, what the fuck?
00:08:49
Red D
But I am intrigued and I maybe I'll go back because the head that explodes is not the one that you're expecting. There's kind of like a reverse scan going on.
00:08:55
Jamie
Yeah. I know, i know. It's really weird that it's that one that explodes.
00:09:00
Red D
But But I kind of was like, uh-oh, something bad is about to happen. And i was like, just watch this and then you can stop.
00:09:08
Jamie
Yeah!
00:09:11
Jen
Oh, you're not making me. wish I watched it with the stake like
00:09:14
Jamie
Yeah, it's not something so that's something you feel great about watching until you get to be able to say in a niche sci-fi podcast that you watch this niche sci-fi thing.
00:09:25
Jen
okay
00:09:26
Red D
I am now strangely intrigued and I wonder if I'll go back finish and finish it. But... um Yeah.
00:09:32
Jamie
I mean, if you're going to go in for that sort of weird shit sci-fi, go for Garth Marenghi's Dark Place.
00:09:39
Red D
No, I think I can only finish what I started or nothing all. Sorry. um I did also watch the first episode of Farscape, I think.
00:09:50
Red D
Yeah, like these guys said.
00:09:50
Jen
What did you think?
00:09:52
Red D
I think I also, I mean, it's nothing like scanners.
00:09:56
Jamie
reflects the production values
00:09:59
Red D
But I think I will try our remember to continue. But um
00:10:05
Jamie
did you meet moya
00:10:07
Red D
I just watched the pilots, I think. But that's quite long already. I mean, like I don't enjoy pilots necessarily of any TV show, like the first episode.
00:10:12
Jamie
Yeah.
00:10:13
Red D
But you you have to like get into because that's all just like background.
00:10:14
Jamie
Yeah.
00:10:14
Jen
Yeah.
00:10:18
Red D
That's how they landed up here, blah, blah, blah.
00:10:20
Jen
Yeah, I feel like maybe you might want to give it a couple more chances.
00:10:20
Red D
um
00:10:24
Red D
Yeah, no I think I will.
00:10:26
Jen
i from I'm trying to remember the pilot. I didn't think the pilot's very good from what I vaguely recall.
00:10:30
Red D
But I think the problem is I watched that first 10 minutes of Scanners and that on the same night and the thing that stood out really was the head detonated into a million little pieces so I need to go back.
00:10:42
Jamie
Yeah.
00:10:43
Jen
But do you know how both you and I love the Voyager opening, Red?
00:10:49
Red D
Yes.
00:10:49
Jen
Well, see, I almost put the Farscape opening on a par with the Voyager opening. I love the opening.
00:10:54
Red D
Okay, yeah.
00:10:55
Jamie
Mm.
00:10:55
Jen
This whole like little mini story that they repeat every time and then it goes into the theme tune.
00:10:56
Jamie
Mm.
00:11:02
Red D
Okay, I need to go back and this is the sun that gets sent out into space right because I also yes, the sun, I mean not the sun, but. ah
00:11:11
Jen
he's like this telling the story like my name is John Crichton and something something I can't remember the rest of it um yeah
00:11:16
Red D
yes. yes
00:11:17
Jamie
Yes, I've gone forward in time, or back in time, or been hurled by a time warp.
00:11:23
Red D
It doesn't help that I also watched a bit of Stargate 1. So this is...
00:11:28
Jamie
Oh, gee.
00:11:28
Jen
all in the same night wow
00:11:30
Red D
No, no, not the same night.
00:11:31
Jamie
What was
00:11:31
Red D
like The same but same two weeks. It's ah so a sweet bit of overload. um Okay, so should we begin our discussion of this episode, Q and the Gray, now that we know what that refers to?
Humor and Awkwardness in Holodeck Scenes
00:11:43
Red D
Jenny, do you want to kick us off?
00:11:45
Jen
Okay, yes. I'm going to just briefly sort of glance over my first point to go mainly to my second point because none maybe because it's not really a point.
00:11:54
Red D
I don't know, that's... okay.
00:11:57
Jamie
in the same scene. It's the same scene.
00:11:58
Jen
It's it's only a half point, right?
00:11:58
Jamie
It's the same scene. You can do both.
00:12:01
Jen
So my half point is, oh, bloody hell, the holodeck swimsuit girls are back. And there's a lovely, you know, juicy short as well when they're focusing on Tom Paris's face.
00:12:12
Jen
um but her cleavage just happens to be like right next to his face this is really really awkward pervy shot and I just wow
00:12:17
Red D
I did not notice that.
00:12:22
Jamie
We just want Paris where he's most happy.
00:12:26
Red D
And that is...
00:12:27
Jen
yeah yeah
00:12:28
Jamie
True of the mountain as well as the city.
00:12:28
Red D
He's very happy.
00:12:30
Jamie
Sorry.
00:12:31
Jen
and it wasn't even you know backed up with seeing fabulous Melana in her swimsuit this time disappointing. um So that's my hard point. And then my main point was just that I really, really love um the outrageously offensive queue dialogue.
00:12:41
Jamie
but
00:12:51
Jen
And one of my favourite parts of this is just this very offhand little, little address he makes.
00:12:59
Red D
Insult.
00:13:01
Jen
Yeah, this is a little offhand address Neelix when he's turning bar.
00:13:02
Jamie
You're
00:13:05
Jen
You there, bar rodent.
00:13:05
Jamie
there.
00:13:07
Jen
It's my absolute favourite. Another cocktail. Another fruity, frou-frou cocktail.
00:13:13
Red D
That was great. I noticed that Jamie is laughing a lot because I know Jamie loves Q and said this this is his spirit animal.
Janeway and Q: Dynamics and Philosophical Insights
00:13:20
Red D
I know Jamie doesn't respect Neelix. And so is this Jamie's fantasy being acted out in react reality?
00:13:26
Jamie
No, it's worse than that, because Q has managed to be more offensive in one line to Neelix with no effort than I have over an entire three series worth of podcasting, putting an awful lot of effort and thought in.
00:13:40
Jen
That actor is so good ah the off offensive of offensive thing.
00:13:42
Jamie
Yeah, like, the Lancey is so good.
00:13:45
Jen
You can really imagine if that was a real life person being so aggravated by them. They're really visual ones.
00:13:55
Jamie
John DeLancey is an amazing actor.
00:13:57
Jen
Yeah.
00:13:58
Red D
So good. ah So, I mean, Jamie, that was you in another life, I guess, but...
00:14:06
Jamie
What the hell?
00:14:07
Red D
ah Okay, okay.
00:14:09
Jamie
Hang on. Maybe omnipotent, but i was never a dick about it.
00:14:14
Red D
um But...
00:14:16
Jamie
phenomenally attractive though. Right, it's probably me though.
00:14:18
Red D
ha Yeah, it's over to you.
00:14:20
Jamie
sit point I would like to invite post-feminist comment on the statement made when Q's ex walks in on Q attempting to seduce the captain by giving her a puppy following the advice of said bar rodent.
00:14:39
Jamie
The comment being step away from the dog. I'm not talking about the puppy. Yeah, from Q.
00:14:49
Red D
Oh, and you interpreted that she was talking about Janeway?
00:14:53
Jamie
Fairly obviously, yeah.
00:14:53
Jen
Yeah.
00:14:55
Red D
I thought she was referring to her dog of a partner that had lived over another woman.
00:15:00
Jamie
Oh, I don't know.
00:15:00
Jen
Oh, in controversy.
00:15:02
Jamie
No, no, no, no, no. I think she was definitely like throwing shade at a Chainway.
00:15:08
Jen
Yeah, it didn't even occur to me that she might have been referring to Q actually.
00:15:09
Red D
no.
00:15:12
Jen
I thought it was JV, but interesting.
00:15:12
Jamie
Yeah. Because that way both of them are extremely offensive, which is par for the course for Q.
00:15:16
Jen
Well, the the there's a real reaction in their faces. and I do find it quite interesting because there's this whole load of super offensive stuff he says before that.
00:15:27
Jen
But then she comes in and calls one of them a dog. And suddenly that's, that's you know, outrageous.
00:15:31
Red D
That's too much.
00:15:33
Jamie
I mean, could i could I also take a moment to reflect on the fact how Q rather offends Chakote and
00:15:41
Red D
You still got my poem?
00:15:43
Jamie
Oh, sorry, sorry. Over to you, Red. My bad.
00:15:45
Red D
No, no, you can say it, you can say
00:15:47
Jamie
Well, I just, like, we go from, you know, professional colligary to, like, Chakotah getting hurt because, you know, someone else is after the captain, which feels a bit interesting. So, over to you.
00:16:01
Jamie
Red, I pass to you. Hmm.
00:16:03
Red D
Well, now I'm going to go back and maybe rewatch that thing because I honestly, I thought she was referring to Q, but I think it's because, and I'll come to it later, I had already framed the story framing in my mind, which was, well, we'll get to it.
00:16:14
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:16:18
Red D
So my first point was also, oh, not in green. um Well, oh yeah. I also, going back to that tropical opening scene when they're in that holodeck paradise, and Tom and Harry are doing their work, poolside or bar side or cleavage side, you pointed out, Jenny, I guess, for moments reviews.
00:16:42
Jen
performance reviews, aren't they?
00:16:44
Red D
And I thought, I've tried working outside. I can't do it. I don't know if you guys have the same or similar.
00:16:51
Jamie
i love doing it i love working outside anyway
00:16:54
Jen
I don't know how Jamie manages it.
00:16:54
Red D
Okay.
00:16:55
Jen
No, I could never. i do I also don't understand how people can work without a monitor, like just off their laptop.
00:17:00
Jamie
hmm
00:17:01
Red D
Oh, that I can do because I work from home and I don't have a monitor here, but I can't take this laptop outside.
00:17:05
Jen
Oh, gosh.
00:17:07
Red D
That's not going to work for me.
00:17:11
Red D
I find it very uncomfortable and there's glare and there's... I've tried a few times, but Jamie, do you have any tips for success? Not really working?
00:17:19
Jamie
Yeah, just just like chill out, bring a notepad out.
00:17:20
Red D
Pretending to work? No.
00:17:22
Jamie
What the what is this snot towards the hardworking public servant over there?
00:17:25
Jen
hmm
00:17:28
Jamie
um
00:17:29
Red D
That is not going to help your reputation. so i think
00:17:33
Jamie
Meow. at No, so um just bring a notepad out. Make sure you've got enough space to do the things you typically do when you're working. Make sure you're in a quiet space on outside. Yeah, it's all good.
00:17:45
Red D
I should try it again. It's a long time since I tried because I was like, no, this will never work ever again.
00:17:51
Jamie
Easy money.
00:17:53
Red D
Okay. Right. Back to you, Jenny. a
00:17:57
Jen
oh well um what have i written here have to remind myself um oh yes i quite enjoyed seeing all the crew members defend Janeway against Q's advances um i don't know just i don't know why just felt very loyal of them all um and i think already mentioned this but also especially how Janeway responds to all
00:18:23
Red D
Yes.
00:18:24
Jen
because I really don't think I could keep my cool in the way she does. I think i would be he would he would really push my buttons and I'd lose my temper. So kudos to Captain Janeway.
00:18:38
Red D
Yeah, I think there's... um She is so great. I mean, that opening scene where he's trying to seduce her, and she is so firm and so witty and so... Yeah.
00:18:49
Jamie
I think she just finds it quite easy to wither him with contempt, doesn't she?
00:18:52
Red D
yeah She is great.
00:18:54
Jen
this Especially she she does it with humour as well. I think one of the the comments he makes about Chakotay, you know, having a massive tattoo on his face and then he creates a tattoo on his face that's bigger and says it's bigger than his, isn't it
00:18:58
Jamie
Yeah, and it's...
00:19:06
Jamie
Shiba.
00:19:09
Jamie
Yeah.
00:19:09
Jen
And she comments some sort of, it's not big enough. know
00:19:14
Jamie
but but
00:19:15
Jen
She responds with, them with ah you know, keeping keeping distance but humour.
00:19:15
Jamie
yeah an old
00:19:19
Jamie
humma
00:19:21
Jen
Whereas I think I would respond with anger, which would be the wrong wrong call. So...
00:19:27
Red D
That's true. She doesn't really get angry. um
00:19:30
Jamie
I do love her line.
00:19:30
Red D
But she's very firm.
00:19:32
Jamie
I do love her line when he's telling her that he could have had anyone.
00:19:32
Red D
good.
00:19:36
Jamie
she And he goes, I could have had a Romulan empress or a single-celled microbe. And she's like, oh, so you're telling me I've beaten off a microbe. Thank you. What a compliment.
00:19:46
Red D
What a compliment.
00:19:48
Jamie
Yeah.
00:19:48
Red D
Also, I loved it. I can't remember the exact terms, but when he's like, oh, you're playing hard to get. And she's like, Q, you should consider me impossible to get or something like that.
00:19:56
Jen
Thank you.
00:19:56
Red D
Like, not hard to get. Very clear.
00:20:00
Jamie
Yeah. True enough? True
00:20:03
Red D
um Jamie, back to you.
00:20:07
Jamie
enough. we're going right back down, are we? Nice. So, I i mean...
00:20:16
Jamie
Oh, where do I start? have so many points. I mean, I'd just like to talk about the dynamics and the never editing...
00:20:24
Red D
just reading your points that I have a lot of questions but anyway carry on
00:20:28
Jamie
innuendos that are coming out from those good folk amongst them. I love Klingon females. They've got spunk to Milona Torres, which is just hilarious from Mrs. Q. um But then also i find the scene at the end of just...
00:20:49
Jamie
Well, one of many takes I will have on that. Can we say that the only point in which the entire episode, during which the captain seems in any way flapped, is when they say to her, don't you want to watch?
00:21:03
Jamie
And they're sort of going to mate. And she's like, no. And then we so move so quickly that she can't not watch.
00:21:08
Jen
But then she does watch. it
00:21:12
Red D
Yes.
00:21:13
Jen
That is pretty weird, that scene.
00:21:13
Jamie
To be clear, all that happens is they touch fingers, but still, that apparently is all takes.
00:21:17
Jen
but But she didn't know that. And she hung around to watch.
00:21:20
Red D
She was intrigued.
00:21:20
Jamie
Did she?
00:21:22
Red D
She was intrigued.
00:21:23
Jen
Yeah.
00:21:23
Red D
But is that because they're the most intelligent, oldest beings in the um the in the universe? Or because...
00:21:29
Jamie
no idea. have no idea you'd have to ask Janeway. I feel she may have let herself down there.
00:21:34
Red D
or because as she acknowledged herself in the episode, it's been a long time. So I don't know.
00:21:40
Jamie
EW!
00:21:43
Red D
If it's in the episode, I can't reference it. I would go through.
00:21:45
Jen
she did she did say it has been a long time
00:21:46
Jamie
Yeah, but it's still a new interpretation of why she's done it. Ew.
00:21:51
Red D
That's true, that was
00:21:54
Jamie
Oh, dear.
00:21:54
Jen
that's probably better than her just being a voyeur so
00:21:58
Red D
the way. Anything else out there, Jenny or Jamie? on that point?
00:22:07
Jen
I've actually lost the original. the original um We went off course, but...
00:22:09
Red D
Yes, me too. That's why I was... and I'm not going to help. I'll jump into my next point. I notice I'm the only one that often brings up the interior design ah elements of this.
00:22:19
Red D
sort
00:22:19
Jamie
Okay.
Q's Romantic Gestures: Humor and Critique
00:22:20
Red D
are you know
00:22:20
Red D
and know i don't think it's ah it's just it's a weird thing that I fixate on. But um I have to say, i kind of liked that red bit. That function isn't currently a city.
00:22:33
Red D
You know, the bed that a queue has magicked into existence.
00:22:35
Jen
the The Valentine's one.
00:22:36
Jamie
Yeah,
00:22:37
Red D
Valentine's Day bed. I mean, when I say I like it, I don't want it. But you know, in like longms and films and stuff, often like if they go to like one of these, like, I guess, hookup motels whatever, it's a round bed or a heart-shaped bed or a water bed.
00:22:42
Jamie
you did. Sorry.
00:22:51
Red D
And I'm always like, that doesn't seem very practical to me. a Like, especially the round bed. That really... I'm right. But this was like, okay, it's a normal shape. bed It's red. It's got a bit of a hot theme. And then it does have like the starscape behind, which it's always going to be very romantic. I think so.
00:23:11
Jen
How funny is it we ended up watching this episode with that sort of opening scene with all the flowers and roses and chocolates and Valentine's bed.
00:23:20
Jamie
Oh, just by Valentine's Day.
00:23:21
Jen
The week of Valentine's week?
00:23:21
Jamie
Yeah.
00:23:23
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:23:23
Jen
assessment
00:23:24
Red D
That was good timing. um So I guess no one else liked the bed, but I just thought I would share that.
00:23:31
Jen
Nah.
00:23:31
Red D
No.
00:23:33
Jen
But I did love, as usual, um Super Pervy Jenny, Janeway's nightie.
00:23:33
Red D
Yes.
00:23:37
Red D
Oh yes!
00:23:38
Jen
and
00:23:39
Red D
Which we have seen before, right? I think it's one she has worn before. um Yeah, beautiful night outfit.
00:23:42
Jen
It could be.
00:23:44
Jamie
Is it?
00:23:44
Jen
but it were whatever, they're always Saturn.
00:23:44
Jamie
Because QMagix are into it.
00:23:47
Jen
Yeah, that's not so cool.
00:23:52
Red D
That's not really a term, but anyway, night outfit.
00:23:55
Jamie
Yeah.
00:23:56
Red D
Very nice.
00:23:57
Jamie
and But yeah, can i put a hand up? I don't like the bed. I love the bed
00:24:01
Red D
Oh, that's even better. oh You need, i don't know, no, nevermind. don't know what I was gonna say about that. Your house, was gonna be like, you might have to get us another bedroom with Jenny to allow that into the house.
00:24:11
Jamie
bed. I didn't allow that into the house.
00:24:15
Red D
Cause she,
00:24:16
Jen
uh you can have that in the cabin jimmy
00:24:19
Red D
yes, Jenny's face about the bed was very clear, not a fat.
00:24:23
Jamie
Hmm. As cabin in this podcast enabling my only out spring of toxic masculinity continues of
00:24:25
Jen
ah no bet it wasn't king size either gotta have gotta have king size yeah and we're not particularly tall so i don't i don't know how people
00:24:34
Red D
Oh, no, Demi wasn't king-size.
00:24:36
Jamie
Not big enough. Again, do not big enough.
00:24:38
Red D
Do you have a king-size bed?
00:24:43
Jamie
I'm not indulging that.
00:24:46
Red D
My sister and her husband have a king-size bed, which they moved into my spare bedroom. So the bed takes up most of the bedroom. And it does look very comfortable. And I've kept meaning to like lie down in the afternoon or something. but Because they were like, yeah, you know like you can. Because I was like, that bed looks so comfortable.
00:25:02
Red D
never did it. And they're moving on the weekends. So I might not have my chance.
00:25:06
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm.
00:25:06
Jen
Oh quick, right as soon as the podcast over you'll go lie on bed. It does feel so spacious.
00:25:10
Red D
But it does look, yeah, it does look comfortable.
00:25:12
Jen
home You do get used to it so that then it feels normal. But oh, it's still so nice. I highly recommend.
00:25:20
Red D
Yes, I think your bedroom has be able to take the bed. ah So yeah, like a my spare room is maybe it would be, no, I think it'd be too big even for my main room.
00:25:32
Red D
But it looks very cozy and comfortable. And I would never leave if that was my bed, I think is the problem. ah Jenny, back to you Let's see what you've got going here.
00:25:44
Jen
Well, let's see. Ah, yes. Now, this is a point in, kind sort of to um compliment, shall we say nicely, my earlier point about, you know, just celebrating Q's fabulously offensive, you there, bar rodent.
00:26:01
Jamie
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:03
Jen
Then he has this conversation with Neelix, and then I feel like Neelix has his little you go girl moment.
00:26:06
Jamie
Hell yeah. I mean,
00:26:10
Jen
when he comes back with, do you want to know what Captain Janeway likes about me? I'll tell you. I'm respectful, I'm loyal, I'm most of all, I'm sincere.
00:26:17
Jamie
yeah.
00:26:20
Jen
and Those are qualities which someone like you could never hope to possess. You go on legs.
00:26:25
Red D
Yes, very brilliant.
00:26:27
Jamie
um yeah
00:26:29
Jen
An excellent defence.
00:26:31
Jamie
I also like the way that they all sort of then disengage with Q and not hang around to let him sort of turn them into stuff.
00:26:38
Jen
They don't let him play with them. which is obviously something he likes to do to try and wind, he likes to wind people up, likes to draw them in um and then sort of make them mad. i think he gets some kind of sick pleasure out of it, but they're all, you know, quite strict, aren't they? with a
00:26:56
Jamie
Yeah, it sounds like they were all pre-briefed.
00:26:57
Red D
Yeah, that's a really good point.
00:26:57
Jen
You're all at Starfleet training.
00:26:59
Jamie
Yeah.
00:27:01
Red D
Yeah, a really good point. I might as well throw in here, there were a few insults that made to say this earlier, and I forgot, sorry, but that... um hugh gave So it was the bar rodent one that is the, I guess, the top insults of the episode, judging by your guy's reaction. But he called Chakotay Chuckles, which I was like, that's very rude.
00:27:21
Red D
And Paris Helmboy.
00:27:22
Jamie
Is it?
00:27:22
Red D
Oh no, that was female Q. She called Paris Helmboy.
00:27:24
Jen
Oh, yes.
00:27:24
Jamie
Yeah.
00:27:25
Red D
But I was like, they clearly you have some very good insult.
00:27:25
Jen
Hellboy.
00:27:26
Jamie
And it's...
00:27:28
Jen
Oh, that was a good one.
00:27:29
Red D
Yeah.
00:27:29
Jamie
Chemistry.
00:27:30
Jen
You hellboy.
00:27:30
Jamie
Is Chuckles that offensive?
00:27:33
Red D
Huh?
00:27:33
Jamie
Is Chuckles that offensive?
00:27:36
Red D
I don't think Chakotay wants to be called Chuckles.
00:27:38
Jamie
I think we'd all do with being called Chuckles a bit you know more often.
00:27:43
Red D
Another bed suit.
00:27:43
Jamie
Lightens us up. He's supposed to be the Harlequin of this tale, is Q. You can't take that away from him. In the same way that I, a ridiculous harlequin of this podcast production.
00:27:49
Red D
Well, that's okay.
00:27:56
Jen
I think it's the delivery as well.
00:27:56
Red D
Yeah. Yes.
00:27:57
Jamie
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:58
Jen
they They do do it well. Like, ooh, hell boy over there.
00:28:01
Jamie
Tangerine.
00:28:03
Red D
Yes.
00:28:03
Jen
Such a perfect amount of patronising.
00:28:05
Jamie
Disdain.
00:28:07
Red D
yeah
00:28:08
Jen
Yeah. nicely
00:28:09
Jamie
the same tone you'd say pool boy.
00:28:12
Jen
yeah
00:28:12
Red D
Yes, that's a good point. Sorry, I just want to throw that in there before I forget. But it's actually your turn, Jamie.
00:28:19
Jamie
Is that indeed? Well, I would then like, remaining on the light tone, is I'd like to just point out that the way that Q originally approaches trying to seduce the captain of, you know, just magically having the bed there and magically being able to snap his fingers and she's in different clothes, ah is how teenage boys, young ones, imagine seduction is done.
00:28:45
Jamie
So I'd just like to point out that he sort of gradually moves through the maturity spectrum as we go from the episode where, you know, he first of all just throws all the useless moves, then he sort of tries to fake being sincere, then he actually is open and honest, and then he actually, know,
00:29:00
Jen
Thank you.
00:29:08
Jamie
fesses up and starts trying to take some responsibility with his ex, which I think shows a character growth throughout the episode from one end of the immature to the other end of the mature spectrum of, am I going to say male or am I going to say dating behaviours? Well, up to you guys.
00:29:28
Red D
That is very interesting because i mean, I don't, I, it will lead into my point very nicely.
00:29:30
Jamie
Story arc.
00:29:35
Red D
So I think Jenny, if you have any thoughts, uh, um,
00:29:39
Jen
No, no it's very, very interesting. Yeah, and was just thinking how at the end, you know, he tops it all off with basically s saying, you know, kill me, but spare Janeway, you know, none of this is her fault.
00:29:49
Jamie
Hmm.
00:29:52
Jamie
Hmm.
00:29:52
Jen
And that is a very grown up self-sacrificing thing to do. So that's, that's, that's, he's reached peak grown up queue at that point.
00:30:02
Jamie
Hmm.
00:30:03
Red D
Yeah, interesting, because I disagree.
00:30:07
Jen
Oh,
00:30:08
Red D
Well, not that I disagree, really. But, you know, I was referring earlier or alluding to the fact that I was like, my tiny brain can't take the continuum, even when they try to put it in terms that the humans can understand. But i was like, I guess the terms they're trying to put it in, but are like,
00:30:22
Red D
I mean, I'm sure there's a better term for this, but like the classic Casanova style seducer experience where he like just tries to love bomb you instantly. Then he tries to convince you that you're the only woman in the world for him. Then he tries to pretend that he's being honest about what he really wants at to the point where he's like, yes, i really I'm ready for a relationship and I want to sail down, but oh my God, I'm not going to look after the child.
00:30:48
Red D
And as I recall from a future episode, it turns out he does neglect his child or he's not a great father. So even though, yes, he ends in a more mature state, maybe as a dad or something, and he has a more...
00:31:02
Red D
He brings an end to the war and he has, I guess, know it's reconciliation, but a better ah like solution by meeting with the fellow Q. I don't think he's matured ah at all.
00:31:13
Red D
A lot of things reminded
00:31:14
Jamie
Maching is always the solution.
00:31:16
Red D
Mating is always the solution. So, yeah, I was just trying to see it through kind of more that lens and trying to and and trying instead of trying to understand exactly what the Q are.
00:31:27
Red D
But I guess you... I mean, I do love the bit about what you said about, like, teenage boy fantasies. I've never been a teenage boy, but that's enlightening. So...
00:31:36
Jamie
I mean, you've surely come across them.
00:31:38
Red D
I did, but not...
00:31:41
Jen
Not enough.
00:31:41
Red D
Teenage boy... Like, I mean, not... Yeah, no I don't think any teenage boys try to seduce me. Well, if they did, I didn't notice. So I guess...
00:31:53
Jamie
You either notice or you either don't notice or you notice too hard.
00:31:56
Red D
Yes, that's maybe... Yeah. Ah, yes!
00:31:58
Jen
Yeah, you've brought me round, Red.
00:31:58
Red D
Yeah.
00:32:00
Jen
I'm i'm now, and now agree with you.
00:32:03
Red D
ah yes
00:32:04
Jen
is Because, yeah, he doesn't, I mean, he's selfish i think it's more i guess that by the end the expression on janeway's face when at the very end he tries to save her life without thinking of the fact that they're gonna you know um execute him um it's sort of she looks at him in ah such a shocked way it's more a oh there's a there is a glimmer of uh humanity there but it's just a glimmer i'm not sure he's grown to the extent that you know your traditional storyline would have him but um he sort remains yeah he he remains like this um dangerous um sort of arrogant selfish being but you also are now aware that there is like a glimmer of um conscience there sometimes if you're lucky
00:32:32
Red D
Yeah.
00:32:41
Red D
He's not Yeah.
00:32:58
Red D
Yeah, I mean, maybe actually this could be a huge reach, but there's that episode in The Next Generation, right, where he's going to, like, ah come at awe of humankind to death or whatever if they don't, like, there's a trial type thing.
00:33:11
Jen
man
00:33:12
Red D
um And I guess there is that, like, very long character growth where he feels bad about being responsible for the death of one human being, which maybe wouldn't have bothered him a long time ago. But... um
00:33:24
Jen
yeah so remind me of the timeline does that happen that scene in next gen that happens before this before voyage
00:33:32
Red D
I have no idea. I just know that Next Generation was made before Voyager. I think it comes before Voyager.
00:33:39
Jen
That's what I always assume, which I'm i'm sure I get wrong.
00:33:40
Red D
Yes. I think that's correct.
00:33:41
Jen
with but
00:33:42
Red D
I think that is correct because... Yeah. um I think I've tried to figure this out before. um
00:33:51
Jen
That would make more sense.
00:33:51
Red D
so but That's just a random thought.
00:33:55
Jen
Hmm.
00:33:57
Red D
So a bit of both. But he's still... When it comes to women, a Casanova.
00:34:06
Red D
You just doesn't want them to die, which is nice.
00:34:11
Red D
Oh, Jamie, we can't hear you.
00:34:14
Jamie
I was just thinking it was a high bar and yeah, we'd, we would all appreciate folk feeling that way about us.
00:34:25
Red D
But Jenny, I'm very happy. I always love to bring someone around convince someone about my point of view. But back to you.
00:34:33
Jen
oh well um i now have slightly more we're moving on to the the part of the episode where they start having these like really interesting phil philosophical dialogues going on um and i just really like some of the screenwriting between jane ray and q in this um and so i sort of had two Two thoughts around that.
Parenting and Ideals: A Philosophical Debate
00:34:57
Jen
um One was this lovely, ah just this lovely way Jamie speaks about humanity and about how they've developed and evolved over centuries to have love and compassion and conscience.
00:35:08
Jen
And, you know, it takes time.
00:35:09
Jamie
Sussi.
00:35:11
Jen
It's such idealism.
00:35:14
Jamie
sister
00:35:14
Jen
i I don't know, in these times, it it makes me wonder, do we still have all those things? oh
00:35:23
Red D
We have some of them in some parts of the world.
00:35:23
Jen
But it's nice to imagine.
00:35:26
Red D
Yeah.
00:35:26
Jen
Yeah.
00:35:27
Red D
But it does take time to make non-violence the norm, let's say.
00:35:34
Jamie
Yes it does. We're still never...
00:35:36
Red D
It's not a given. the human condition is, it's not a given, given the human condition, if that makes sense.
00:35:42
Jen
yeah
00:35:45
Jen
You can never evolve evolve it completely out.
00:35:50
Red D
No, because I think it's it's mostly ah norms and societal expectations that dampens it, I guess. I mean, this is something I've been thinking about recently, but it takes a long time for those norms to develop, I guess, and for people to...
00:36:03
Jamie
yes I never think it's all one way though, because I think a lot of the ways in which, you know, this they talk about humanity evolving
00:36:15
Jamie
non-violent ways, and I think the whole thing that Janeway is saying is it's not actual evolution in the Darwinian sense of, you know, biologically we become unable to you know be violent, things like that.
00:36:26
Jen
no no
00:36:28
Jamie
It is societal evolution and societal norm evolution.
00:36:30
Jen
I
00:36:33
Jamie
So, yeah, I get...
00:36:35
Red D
believe I believe that's what I said.
00:36:37
Jamie
Oh, I thought you were making the opposite point.
00:36:38
Red D
ah
00:36:39
Jamie
I thought you were saying that societal norms get in the way of peace and things like that.
00:36:39
Red D
No.
00:36:44
Red D
No, I think that's what drives, that's what keeps people in check is a societal expectation that changes over time.
00:36:45
Jen
understood Red.
00:36:47
Jamie
Ah, got you, got you.
00:36:51
Jamie
Noted. Okay, fair enough.
00:36:54
Jen
i understood brett so
00:36:56
Jamie
Sorry, thought you were making the opposite point. My bad.
00:36:56
Red D
I don't know that, was like, if you both us understood me, I'm like, gee whiz, I really need to go on a communication course, but maybe this is just a
00:37:00
Jen
i No, no, no, no. No, the, um is' it's ah is's culture, isn't it?
00:37:02
Red D
just so
00:37:02
Jamie
That's what this is for.
00:37:04
Red D
fifth
00:37:06
Jen
And culture developing over generations and... I think that was part of it.
00:37:10
Jamie
Yes.
00:37:11
Jen
and And then it's also related then to what she talks about later about how Q just wants to like drop the baby and run off and then expects the baby to, she says, you can't expect the baby to inherit your ideals.
00:37:18
Jamie
Yeah.
00:37:22
Jen
They're not like genes. You don't just pass them on through biology.
00:37:24
Jamie
Yeah.
00:37:25
Jen
You you have to stay and teach them. In fact, I've just, oh no, I've just accidentally gone on to my last point. That was my next point.
00:37:32
Jamie
Oh, no.
00:37:33
Jen
And she's like, creating a new kind of Q is a noble idea.
00:37:33
Red D
That's okay.
00:37:37
Jen
It takes more than impregnating someone and walking away. if you want your offspring to embrace your ideals, you have to teach them yourself. um
00:37:44
Jamie
no
00:37:45
Red D
Yeah, I mean, that is, I mean, a bit like, I think what you said earlier, you were alluding to the fact that like, okay, in 2024, whenever this was happening, there's still this race, like a race or species, sorry, I've got confused there.
00:37:59
Red D
that is fighting and turning to violence, even though they're the oldest, most wise, most omnipotent. So do I mean, what hope do we have? I guess, in a sense.
00:38:07
Jen
yes
00:38:08
Red D
I don't think that was your point. I think your point was like, oh, yes, we should be evolved enough to know that violence is not the answer. And then also at that point in time, that species should be evolved and enough to know how to be a good parent.
00:38:19
Red D
How can they be such a bad parent still? my gosh.
00:38:24
Jen
I guess they've had no practice because there's no one has been and a parent in millennia.
00:38:24
Red D
Sorry.
00:38:24
Jamie
True.
00:38:27
Jamie
Yeah.
00:38:27
Red D
That's true. That's a good point.
00:38:30
Jamie
A bit of years of doing nothing and just pissing about trying to you know get your rocks off will probably turn you into a bit of a de-gen.
00:38:30
Jen
um
00:38:38
Red D
Yeah, that is a good point. That's fair.
00:38:43
Red D
But there was, I mean, yeah, she, I think I did really like her speech that she gave about parenthood. I sadly, i think I was making some notes when she um was giving the other speech that she referred to, Jamie, but they were good, good, definitely.
00:38:58
Jen
I really like the screenwriting on this one, like those conversations, because I think it must be quite hard to write things like that, like conversations between two people um about like, you know, big topics that come across as still, like they could genuinely be conversations, they're not just written.
00:39:01
Jamie
Yeah.
00:39:20
Red D
Yeah.
00:39:21
Jamie
yeah
00:39:21
Red D
And they're not, um they're coming out of the kind of voice of the character. They're not like a sermon or preaching, I guess. they the They're just like, oh yeah, these are good points or something to think about.
00:39:32
Red D
or
00:39:33
Jamie
um
00:39:33
Jen
Yeah, and it's a really nice balance as well, I think, of um like things that make you think deeply slash hilarious comedy. I just love the juxtaposition, and I think it's really nice to be balanced.
00:39:42
Red D
Yes. Yes. Cool.
00:39:47
Red D
That is a good point. i didn't think of it like that. But that's how I like my deep thoughts delivered. just suppose with a comedy.
00:39:53
Jen
Yes, little bit of deep coming, deep thinking, little bit of lightheartedness to cut through that.
00:40:00
Red D
little bit of finger mating to break things up.
00:40:03
Jen
Oh, yes.
00:40:03
Red D
I'm kidding.
00:40:03
Jamie
Yes, I mean, on on that, I'd like to pick up on the biggest conversation of all that we haven't really touched on based on that scene. Now, you won't have escaped your notice that I think you ah his last words in that scene were, I was good, and I think he says, you were good.
00:40:26
Jamie
Here's the big question. Do we reckon Q was good?
00:40:34
Red D
I barely understand what the cues are. So I don't know if I can answer this question, Jenny.
00:40:36
Jen
yeah ah Yeah, I don't know.
00:40:39
Red D
ah
00:40:39
Jen
I feel the same. know. you know what? I have an opinion on it. I think he'd be terrible.
00:40:44
Jamie
ah yeah Don't you give me your moral contempt.
00:40:44
Jen
No, I think he'd be terrible because isn't isn't isn't generally the same people who are terrible in bed because they're selfish in bed
Character Critiques: Q and Female Q
00:40:57
Jen
and he is super selfish.
00:40:57
Red D
Yes.
00:40:58
Jen
So I think I'd assume he'd be awful.
00:40:59
Red D
Yes.
00:41:02
Red D
Yeah, I think that's fair.
00:41:02
Jen
hint
00:41:03
Red D
I'd be like...
00:41:03
Jamie
So was other Q lying to him then? oh
00:41:07
Red D
Well, it wasn't the first time they've ever done it. I don't know.
00:41:10
Jen
So she wouldn't know any better. if No, she just wouldn't know any better.
00:41:13
Jamie
So she was lying to him.
00:41:17
Jen
So what she thinks is good is that might be terrible. It does,
00:41:20
Red D
And maybe by virtue of them being queues, there's something good baseline. Like, but I'm just trying to...
00:41:29
Jamie
I mean, Q does say that foreplay with a Q can last thousands of years.
00:41:34
Red D
That's true. That sounds like a nightmare. But okay.
00:41:36
Jen
yeah. It's horrifying.
00:41:37
Red D
I was like, in my mind, was like, oh my gosh, she would at least control the ship. She would. I don't know what was saying. But what do you think, Jamie?
00:41:47
Red D
Do you think he was good?
00:41:50
Jamie
I don't want to think about Q in bed. I don't know why you're asking me. in a second
00:41:53
Jen
what because you asked us double standards
00:41:55
Jamie
I know. It's a dichotomy and a cynical one. Uh... He probably tried hard.
00:42:02
Red D
Well, then he's got a better chance of having been good.
00:42:07
Jamie
You can try too hard.
00:42:09
Jen
did he try i don't know if he did try i don't know if he
00:42:11
Jamie
Look, this is this is a subjective opinion. It's probably quite hurt by hearing you think that he didn't try hard.
00:42:22
Red D
Oh, that's true. Q exists, he's omnipotent.
00:42:26
Jen
He's listening in, guys.
00:42:26
Jamie
Next one.
00:42:27
Red D
He's listening into the podcast. I've really lost track of whose turn it is, what's going on.
00:42:33
Jamie
Well, I introduced that last point, Silicino, I think as you read.
00:42:35
Red D
That's true. Oh, okay. Well, I have one, well, two points. Both are pretty random. But um I did like Female Q, and she is literally in the credits as Female Q.
00:42:48
Red D
She doesn't get a name.
00:42:48
Jamie
Hmm.
00:42:49
Red D
That's that's why I'm referring to her like that.
00:42:50
Jamie
Aw.
00:42:51
Red D
But um ah I think, I mean, on on various rewatchings or whatever, maybe I didn't quite get it. But in this episode, especially in this viewing, especially when she was interacting with B'Elanna, who is like a very strong half Klingon character, she is like towering over her.
00:43:10
Red D
And so I looked up the actress because now I have to watch this on Amazon, not Netflix, because whatever. And the actress is six foot two. And that is tall, or used be considered tall.
00:43:20
Jamie
It's pretty short in South Africa, here isn't it
00:43:22
Red D
It's British one. And i was like, oh, that's perfect casting. Because I guess they're going for people, someone that's more more than human or superhuman or something.
00:43:28
Jamie
it?
00:43:30
Jamie
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:31
Red D
and So I was like, oh, that was... And really, I noticed it this time around watching, I guess. ah So, yeah. this sort been
00:43:39
Jen
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:43:40
Jamie
Hmm. Hmm.
00:43:41
Jen
I did not notice that until you pointed out. She is super tall. maybe me
00:43:44
Red D
Yeah, she's really tall. Yeah.
00:43:46
Jen
I think that she as well. She does that character really well. And, you know, I think it's difficult when you have a already a strong character already in and in a season that everyone knows well and accept as that character.
00:44:01
Jen
And then you bring in...
00:44:02
Jamie
Hmm.
00:44:04
Jen
um knew a someone who's supposedly in a relationship with them or has been and and and who has existed prior to that character being on the show do you know what i mean like
00:44:16
Red D
Yeah, and as they like equal, in a sense, like, um yeah, counterparts, yeah.
00:44:17
Jamie
Mm-hmm. Canterpon the foil.
00:44:20
Jen
yeah yeah I'm always impressed when um shows do that and
00:44:20
Jamie
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:26
Jen
you immediately believe it and just accept that person as that, you know, partner or spouse or whatever it is. I think that shows that it's either good writing or like the actor or actress coming in did a great job.
00:44:44
Jen
Yeah, I think they chose well.
00:44:44
Red D
Yeah, that is a good point because from the minute she appeared, you kind of accept her. like ah like Of course there was someone else and of course it's this woman kind of thing.
00:44:53
Jen
Yeah, totally believable. Maybe it's the casting director to doing a good job.
00:44:55
Red D
Yeah.
00:44:57
Red D
yeah i think Yeah, I think she did a a great job or was very good casting idea when they when they're trying to cast for that character. So that was really just my little point. So, Jenny, do you have anything else?
00:45:11
Red D
You might, you might not.
00:45:12
Jen
No, so I was i'm just commenting on your guys points now basically i I'm out.
00:45:17
Red D
I think Jamie has a few things to add about the Civil War caps or CHAPS
Holodeck Debate: Purpose and Fashion
00:45:23
Jamie
I mean, these are these are more like comments than anything else. So I think some of those Civil War caps just looked amazing on both sides. I'll leave that out there. I was want to know why tom and Kim are always in Beach Bay Paradise Hollows and exactly how far they go in them.
00:45:23
Red D
caps.
00:45:44
Jamie
Actually, I really don't want to know that.
00:45:45
Red D
I don't want to know the answer to that one.
00:45:46
Jamie
I really don't want to know that. oh I mean I was I did echo the point around you know human evolution and that would that actually help things giving human DNA the powers omnipotence maybe not I mean I did very much enjoy the egotistical element of I raised banner of course others followed from Q of course they followed me um I am sort of slightly interested that we haven't particularly engaged with the final ah devil's choice temptation that Kiwi gives the captain of, meet with me and I'll get you guys home.
00:46:22
Red D
Yes.
00:46:27
Jamie
Which is interesting, but thankfully isn't examined too closely. The captain being portrayed as having a strong up moral centre not to even entertain that.
00:46:38
Jamie
um And those were my themes.
00:46:41
Red D
Well, if I may respond to some them and you jog my memory about some of them, but um in terms of the holodeck, huh?
00:46:47
Jamie
careful It's
00:46:50
Red D
Deb's a holodeck. My sister, who is eight years younger than me, is of the third belief that that is what the holodeck is for, and I refuse to believe it. And...
00:46:59
Jamie
what I'm here for.
00:47:00
Jen
Yeah.
00:47:00
Red D
She's like, what ah why else do you think it's there?
00:47:03
Jamie
I tell you what actually, crossover crossover anecdote. It's what it's for in the Orville.
00:47:10
Red D
Ah...
00:47:10
Jamie
which like there's an entire episode in which basically the ship's mainframe is corrupted and nearly taken over because one of the uh one of the officers buys a porno program for use on the holodeck that's infected with viruses
00:47:26
Red D
Oh, that's a work corporate embarrassment. That's too much to handle.
00:47:31
Jamie
yeah anyway hmm
00:47:34
Red D
But Jenny, I don't know if you have any feelings about that.
00:47:38
Jen
Well, I mean, it's sad to think, but that is probably what would happen. I mean, that presumably, lot of people would use it for porn, wouldn't they?
00:47:45
Red D
Yeah.
00:47:49
Jen
I mean, that's
00:47:53
Red D
And I guess you could make the argument it in this if this in this instance, that is almost, I mean, i'm sure lots people would disagree with me.
00:47:54
Jen
all I have to say.
00:48:00
Red D
This is just my personal opinion, but it's almost reasonable. They far from home. They don't know when they're going to get back to their, they might've been in relationships. it's they probably is It's probably difficult or ill-advised to have interpersonal relationships.
00:48:08
Jen
Yeah.
00:48:11
Jamie
it's okay this is the sex positive yeah are you kidding there are interpersonal relationships throughout the start
00:48:15
Red D
So,
00:48:15
Jen
That's true.
00:48:18
Jamie
um and This is a sex-positive environment, right?
00:48:18
Red D
Yes, I know, I know, but you call for seven years, you can't just carry on having sex with everybody on your ship.
00:48:19
Jen
Yeah, but not like...
00:48:23
Red D
Like, I mean, that's...
00:48:23
Jen
Yeah.
00:48:24
Red D
like that
00:48:24
Jen
yeah you got Imagine if it, you know, when you break up, and you keep having sleeping around and then... And and also, i believe there's a later episode where the holodeck actually comes in very helpful to a certain young Vulcan who is going through Pornfar.
00:48:30
Red D
He'll run out.
00:48:37
Red D
Yes. Yes, yes. as so But those are very noble. I mean... i mean
00:48:45
Jen
and
00:48:45
Red D
um And then, sorry, but ah back to the holodeck, but not the sexy side. um I have to comment on this outfit because I don't know if we're going see it again, but we did see it last week. And I don't know if we see this whole program again, but the turquoise shiny cycling shorts with the turquoise shiny, like sports bra.
00:49:08
Red D
It's starting to grow on me. like this
00:49:14
Red D
You know what outfit I'm referring to.
00:49:16
Jen
i do now yeah now i think about it i always think they're swimsuits but in fact they're more like um 80s athleisure where
00:49:24
Red D
Yes. Yeah, but no. I
00:49:26
Jamie
Mm.
00:49:26
Jen
um from like an 80s music video or something they might be really comfy is there anything like lycra you know that you do your exeism
00:49:30
Jamie
Mm.
00:49:32
Red D
don't know why. It's just like, I guess if you keep seeing it, something you it's like, oh okay, that's actually not bad or something. I don't know. um But yeah, and then there was that temptation or that perceived temptation with Q saying I can send you back home but I think he's played with them before which he refers to so yeah
00:49:55
Jen
Yeah, they don't really trust him anyway. So like he can promise things, but I think she's got to the stage, at least this is how I think I'd feel, where it's not tempting because you don't think it is being tempted really.
00:49:57
Jamie
She's learned.
00:50:06
Jen
It's just him messing around.
00:50:09
Red D
you kind of knew eventually he was going to try pull that ah um on her but uh She's learnt. She's learnt. Okay.
00:50:20
Jamie
learned
00:50:23
Red D
Um, so any final thoughts? so Oh, I had one more point. Sorry, I forgot. How cute is the baby in the Star Trek uniform?
00:50:31
Jamie
That's so bad.
00:50:34
Jen
Oh, can't say I noticed it was in a Star Trek uniform.
Uniforms and Humor: Baby Q and Companions
00:50:39
Red D
the thing. Again, I don't think I've noticed this before, but when Q, like, appears and he's got his baby, but he... I guess had with female Q through the finger meeting. was like, oh my gosh, he's wearing a star fleece uniform.
00:50:50
Jamie
bye
00:50:55
Jamie
And one which he hadn't earned, may I add.
00:50:55
Jen
Yeah.
00:50:55
Red D
Oh,
00:50:57
Jamie
Had that kid been through Starfleet Academy before he started shoving planets off their orbits? No, he had not.
00:51:03
Red D
ah true, classic Q.
00:51:03
Jamie
Once again, hr needs to be involved. In fact, having him in there probably constitutes charred labour.
00:51:11
Red D
Okay, I'm sorry, I just thought, I mean, i I don't think I've noticed before, but I was like, baby and in uniform, that is quite cute.
00:51:15
Jamie
It was a Dorb's, though.
00:51:17
Jen
I mean, I do love that they always turn up in Starfleet uniforms.
00:51:18
Jamie
Yeah.
00:51:23
Jen
like It's another of the hilariously offensive things, you know, like that his his ah spouse was also in the Starfleet uniform and then top it off they bring up they bring the baby in in the Starfleet uniform.
00:51:23
Jamie
Yeah.
00:51:31
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:51:31
Jamie
Yeah.
00:51:33
Jamie
I love it. Hmm.
00:51:34
Red D
didn't realize.
00:51:36
Jen
Just taking the piss of the crew as much as they can basically.
00:51:40
Red D
That is so true. Okay, moving on to themes, and we might wrap this up in under an hour. But Jenny, do you want to kick us off on themes?
00:51:50
Jen
well um yeah i started to come up with a few procreation war and peace nature versus nurture seduction and individualism again feel like this comes up a lot we had a whole episode talking about collectivism versus individualism a while back and now here it is again
00:52:05
Red D
yeah.
00:52:14
Red D
Yeah, I think it's a, I mean, not a common theme, but a thing, it's something that comes up in all kinds of places and discussions, but yeah.
00:52:25
Jamie
point
00:52:25
Red D
ah Do you want to elaborate procreation? I'm sorry.
00:52:30
Jen
Not really.
00:52:32
Jamie
That's fine.
00:52:34
Jen
I mean, that one's probably quite self-explanatory. You know, the the whole story is based on Q wanting to have a child because he thinks it's going to bring about some kind of peace.
00:52:45
Jen
and I still don't really understand the the thinking behind this.
00:52:49
Red D
Yeah, we didn't really touch upon that, but even did he refer to this child as the new
Grand Gestures and Skepticism
00:52:53
Red D
messiah? Like, I mean, it was really tapping into some, like, religious imagery and all this kind of stuff.
00:52:53
Jen
Yeah.
00:52:54
Jamie
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:52:59
Red D
um
00:53:00
Jen
I mean, you...
00:53:00
Red D
And I was like, how is this going to work? All I know from history is that every time there's a new messiah across all religions, that just can't causes more splitting and more, like, certainly not unification, yeah.
00:53:09
Jen
More bloodshed, yeah. And i as far as I could tell, the only actual... I was trying to listen to see when he explained.
00:53:19
Jen
And he never really did. I mean, he mentioned something about fresh blood. i was like, that's not really an explanation. Well, then maybe fresh blood will do something. good It's so vague.
00:53:29
Jamie
so sister
00:53:30
Jen
I mean, maybe, as you were saying earlier, it's because our tiny humanoid minds cannot understand in the same way omnivitent beings can.
00:53:31
Jamie
Well, it just...
00:53:38
Jen
So maybe that's it.
00:53:42
Red D
Yeah, me I mean, to be fair, no one's ever had a cute baby. So maybe he's onto something. But I was like, human history doesn't show that this is a successful approach, I guess. um But Jamie, any themes from you?
00:54:01
Jamie
I mean, I was initially tempted just to write sex numerous times on the themes thing, which I did, and then I deleted. um i just think um
00:54:15
Jamie
Q remains an adventurer of the most exciting sort. We're all drawn in by the chaos that is his existence.
00:54:27
Jamie
yeah i I got nothing else, I enjoyed that.
00:54:32
Red D
Great.
00:54:32
Jamie
I also suspect my earphones have died, because can't hear you guys.
00:54:33
Red D
I'm... Ah, you were... Yes. Okay, we can hear you, but yeah.
00:54:40
Jamie
it taste
00:54:41
Red D
There was a pause, I think, and then I thought, oh, something's happening. I don't think I really... Theme. Theme. Theme. I think you guys have covered it. I don't think I have anything to add, except...
00:54:54
Red D
Be aware of anybody who appears with a rose heart-shaped colored bed. Anyone who tries that hard.
00:55:03
Jamie
I am there.
00:55:03
Jen
I mean, I would be immediately suspicious without the Star Trek warning, I think, with a heart treatment.
00:55:05
Red D
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
00:55:11
Jamie
um And you really were the first you know few times that we went on the...
00:55:11
Red D
definitely
00:55:14
Jamie
Sorry.
00:55:18
Red D
um So star player. Jenny, can I come back to you? Do you have a star player ready?
00:55:23
Jen
ah Yeah, no, I have um have been thinking about it and I can't decide between basically Janeway because of how she her character because of how she handles Q I just I have so much respect for that because I really don't think I would keep my call I
00:55:36
Red D
Yes.
Episode Stars: Janeway, Q, or the Puppy?
00:55:44
Jen
don't know she handles it with firmness as you said read but also humor and I wish I could do that in more situations I think it's a very diplomatic way to handle things like that so yeah that is very impressive but I was also a little bit tempted to go for Q just because
00:55:44
Red D
That's a good one.
00:56:03
Jen
literally because of the you are rodent comment which is you know I find I watched a lot of comedy like comedy but I rarely rarely does it make me laugh out loud that that one always does that one and have I got you that's it that's pretty much it that's the only tv or or you know cinema or anything that makes me laugh out loud
00:56:13
Jamie
You there, bar rodents.
00:56:22
Red D
Amazing.
00:56:25
Jamie
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:27
Red D
Love it. Well, we don't have to make you choose, but I feel like maybe if Jamie goes, then
00:56:34
Jamie
Okay. Yeah, I'm... I think the doctor.
00:56:43
Jamie
Keeps a clean sheet. First time in a while. No injuries, no deaths. Good job.
00:56:48
Red D
I mean, he also was like, he tried to say that the medical bay whatever of it is where the action is after they just watch witnessed a star go supernova.
00:56:57
Jamie
Keeps a clean sheet, keeps a clean sheet.
00:56:58
Red D
Yeah.
00:57:00
Jamie
so you know Hey, no one dies, but stars go supernovae on the Astropathics wards watched that episode. So I think the doctor has a higher performance statistic there.
00:57:13
Jen
Did you guys also note?
00:57:14
Jamie
Performs against his KPIs. right
00:57:16
Jen
did Did you guys also note? ah the very beginning they reference his new mobile emitter just so we don't forget he's he's saying i'm experiencing this open over from the bridge due to my mobile emitter so
00:57:22
Jamie
Yes, just to remind people.
00:57:23
Red D
Oh, oh.
00:57:28
Red D
Oh, yes. Yes.
00:57:31
Jamie
can i Can I add to that that he references wearing illegal contraband on the bridge in front officers who are theoretically on duty and gets away with it. Again, star player material.
00:57:42
Jamie
Yay.
00:57:43
Red D
You've made your case. i accept it, Damien.
00:57:47
Jamie
yay
00:57:48
Red D
I mean, mine is not much better, but at least... Mine was in a few more scenes or longer scenes, the puppy.
00:57:56
Jen
Oh.
00:57:57
Red D
The puppy was very cute.
00:57:59
Jamie
make your make your case what is beyond being cute which is just pure objectification of the trying kind of thing we're trying to stamp out in this office environment okay
00:58:01
Red D
Okay. I'm,
00:58:10
Red D
I will make my case. It's a bit of a long case, but um and we might as well say, but it was a few weeks ago, ah kath the actress Catherine O'Hara died. we, I think maybe it was, we even discussed this.
00:58:21
Red D
I can't remember because we discussed Schitt's Creek or something.
00:58:22
Jamie
yeah
00:58:24
Red D
And then I watched a film called Best in Class kind of because she was in it. And I thought, anyway, just that's when people die. like to watch a movie of theirs or something.
00:58:35
Red D
And it's a mockumentary of this big dog show that's been running now live.
00:58:38
Jen
Ah!
00:58:39
Jamie
Oh.
00:58:41
Red D
And so I've been watching the videos on YouTube of like the non-sporting dog or whatever, or in the agility class.
00:58:46
Jamie
Oh.
00:58:48
Red D
And and my sister have be watching bits of it on YouTube. And I must say that this puppy that we saw in this episode was very well-trained compared to some of these dogs at this premium dog show.
00:58:58
Jamie
Hmm.
00:58:59
Red D
um
00:58:59
Jamie
but the
00:59:01
Red D
Not that they misbehave, but they're not... They're not, I guess it's more casual in some elements than I realized. And anyway, I just thought of the puppy. was very cute. And when I fell asleep and Jane weighs arms, it was just really just so each other. It was very cute. But it's probably influenced by all the Westminster Kennel Club stuff that I've been watching recently, Jenny.
00:59:21
Jen
I think I've seen that one. is the film.
00:59:23
Red D
yeah
00:59:24
Jen
The documentary.
00:59:24
Red D
Oh, yeah.
00:59:25
Jen
Yeah.
00:59:25
Red D
Yeah.
00:59:25
Jen
um Yeah, that was really funny. i might have to rewatch that one again.
00:59:30
Red D
I mean, she was in the film and then the then she passed away. i mean, the film was a while ago. Then she passed away recently. And then the the the dog show started mockumentary is based on. And they had like ah an on honor of her on like the big screens and stuff. So it was really sweet, like, I guess.
00:59:46
Jamie
Oh. Oh.
00:59:47
Jen
Aww.
00:59:47
Red D
Yeah. So I think I'm just in a cute dog mood. I'm going to start with that little puppy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh, we got through.
00:59:57
Jen
It was cute.
00:59:58
Red D
Yeah, it was very cute. And very sad that she knew from the beginning that was not a puppy that she was going to get to keep. oh But anyway. We did not make it under a minute, but I think we barely I can start playing our outro, our jingle.
01:00:13
Red D
And I can quickly check what episode we have next week or in two weeks time.
01:00:21
Jamie
I'm going to Vogue while you do that.
01:00:21
Red D
ah
01:00:24
Red D
Microcosm. Does that ring any bells, Jenny?
01:00:26
Jen
Oh, was it macro? because
01:00:28
Red D
Microcosm.
01:00:29
Jen
Oh yeah.
01:00:31
Red D
Ah, really?
01:00:31
Jen
Oh yeah. If it's the one I think it is, I really like it. Yeah.
01:00:34
Red D
Oh, exciting.
01:00:35
Jen
If it's the one I think it is.
01:00:39
Red D
Oh, I think my sister's home. Good timing. Oh, I've lost you guys. Oh, sorry.
01:00:43
Jamie
Have you?
01:00:44
Red D
I opened Wikipedia and then I lost you. Sorry. And stop.