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00:00:01
We watch "The 37s" (S2 Ep.1)
32 Plays1 year ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "The 37s" in which Voyager encounters a 1936 Ford truck floating in space, leading them to a planet where they discover Amelia Earhart and other humans in stasis. Voyager's crew try to solve the mystery of why these individuals were abducted, and grapple with the decision to stay or continue on their uncertain journey back to Earth.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Setup
00:00:01
Speaker
So, welcome to this edition of Janeway's Children. Today, as my beloved colleagues Natalie and Jennifer know, we will be discussing the episode, The 37s. Very good, Jamie. I'm going to say something that... No, I've never said to me before. No, no, that the lead singer of Blink-182 said on Sunday night at the concert in Amsterdam,
00:00:31
Speaker
the best third grade class ever or maybe more appropriately the best third grade teacher ever because when you were speaking you started for a minute like you were reading to like like if I read any book it sounds like I'm reading to a child so uh I think you veered slightly into um
00:00:48
Speaker
But I'm sure any of our young listeners will be very happy with that.
Humor and Anecdotes in Podcasting
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. But did I get the episode right? Yes, you did. Of course. I think that's, I figured that's why he was talking slowly because he was thinking, actually, I forgot the title. I'd also like to point out, I didn't really get given much choice. Red Sorcerer went
00:01:09
Speaker
Would you like to introduce this? Three, two, one, go. Press record. Unflappable friend in the spotlight. Backchat, so I was just going to... You did a brilliant job. I hadn't given you any backchat yet, Red, my goodness. I said you were going to and I anticipated. Is it anticipation if you provoke it? Let's not get into that discussion.
00:01:37
Speaker
Red, why don't you want to discuss it's not anticipation if it's provoked or? I just want to talk about the episode. That's why. Yeah. Um, nothing to do with you, Jamie, but I have a very kind gentle mind. Um, but I had already put you on the spot once with the introduction, but would you be happy to give us your one minute summary? Wow. I'm actually going to ad-lib this
Discussion on Thematic Connections and Guest Stars
00:02:00
Speaker
one. He says frantically playing for time.
00:02:02
Speaker
I personally think it's an episode in which the plot of a Scientologist fantasy of humans being abducted and overthrowing an alien civilization gets given full shrift because of the fact that the producers chose to indulge Mr. Tom Paris' penchant for 1937 vehicles.
00:02:28
Speaker
Not bad. Not bad. Interesting perspective. That's what they keep me around for, Red. Interesting perspectives. That's what earns me the big bucks. Yeah. So I think, yeah, I'm not going to try to add anything. I wish I could subtract what had just been said from the actual record.
00:02:52
Speaker
I mean, as no one listens to this podcast, but I listened to another podcast that discusses true crime and they said they never do anything Scientology related because they're afraid that the Scientologist Scientology church will come off to them. And they like basically do this game and like never come off just will never do Scientology. So that's maybe why I made a basement Jamie, um, but, um, well, it was a massive smile. Yeah. What do you have against the Scientologist? Right? My goodness.
00:03:20
Speaker
And I'd just like to say that my interpretation of this episode's interpretation places them in a very positive light. Well, I have to be honest, I don't know enough about Scientology to make any comment, but I definitely tapped into my fears as a child of being abducted by aliens. So that was more my... Shall I take a slightly more serious run-up of this? Go for it. The crew wonder why they're sensing rust in space when iron can't oxidize.
00:03:48
Speaker
follow the trail, find a random vehicle from the mid-20th century planet earth history floating in space in which there is a transmitter generating an SOS.
00:04:09
Speaker
Before we dive in, before we get our initial reactions and get back to what Jamie was saying, I had to share with you that I think I told you my friends got me Murder She Wrote on DVD. So I have been through those episodes. And it's a lot of fun to see all the guest stars.
00:04:26
Speaker
from Star Trek before they were on Star Trek. So Captain Janeway owed a lot for- Seriously, I don't even know if she wrote. Yeah, I know she wrote. It's a lot of fun. Oh, what a breeding ground for talent that I never realized. Exactly. Oh, I might have to start watching. Yeah. And the one that, oh, I forgot her name now, but Captain Janeway, she's the murderer.
Technical Difficulties and Humor
00:04:48
Speaker
So that was very exciting. She's brilliant. We should make- So Janeway murdered someone. This episode read, what are you trying to say here?
00:04:56
Speaker
Oh, nothing, nothing, nothing. No, I think she was a good murderer, actually. Not in a, you know, derogatory way. I just think, you know, the... Captain Janeway character or actor? The actress. I think she'd do a great job of that sort of, you know... Really? Interesting. Hidden psychological depths. Oh, Jenny, I think we lost some of you there. Did you? No, no, I didn't say anything beyond interesting. No, I said Jenny. Oh, sorry. Jenny?
00:05:26
Speaker
It's not that, it's not like your, I'm not sure if it's related to your, also your picture is blurry, or is that just me, Jamie? Jamie, what do you see? I see Jenny sort of looking at her screen anxiously, but that's normally what happens when I open my mouth on these affairs. So she's not blurry for you? A little blurry. She's sort of frozen as well. Quick, let's say, let's say mean things about her while she's sort of
00:05:55
Speaker
unable to answer the hack. I've heard that she once looked at a kitten cross-eyed. Don't you really know what to do to improve it? Oh, we can hear you now. Yeah, that's right. Say something, Johnny. Hello, can you hear me?
Engagement with Episode 'The 37s'
00:06:10
Speaker
Yes, yes, it just, it's gone incredibly blurry. Maybe you robbed the camera screen? No, nope, no rubbing. I guess you're in the room, that must probably have the best internet is for you.
00:06:25
Speaker
You could try coming downstairs to the room, which actually has the router engine, which is the plant room. Yeah. Do you want me to do that? I'm using, what do you think Jean? I mean, we could give it another go and then you might have to move. She seems to have unblurred. Maybe the alien abduction was successful or unsuccessful. Sorry. Go on. You guys carry on. I know. I think that is better. Yeah, it is.
00:06:54
Speaker
You're there. I'm going to have to do some editing. More so than usual, more so than usual. I actually found this one of the episodes that engaged me a lot more solidly than most. I don't know what it was. It was the combination of something so completely random as, well, finding a truck floating in outer space
00:07:23
Speaker
to something completely familiar and I think the real human touch of the fact that Tom Paris is just completely into this vehicle but completely into the sort of attitude that your typical petrolhead enthusiast would have anyway in that he indulges his hobby and manages to annoy 2FOC by turning the vehicle on when they find it and that sort of really got me and that sucked me into the rest of the episode in a sort of
00:07:51
Speaker
engaged and slightly more fun and less serious sort of way than I might have otherwise done. Yeah, it was cool. And your initial reactions, Jenny? Well, I think you have a different opinion. Yeah, I'm afraid. What did you say to me over supper an hour ago about it? This is one of the ones that I often skip, actually. Yeah, I just doesn't think really, I don't really find it very engaging. I'm not really sure why.
00:08:20
Speaker
I quite enjoy the last 10 minutes, but up until that point, I don't know. I think maybe I'm just not that interested in the immediate air heart and old cars, I guess. But I did find this philosophical dilemma in the last 10 minutes quite interesting. Oh, that was engaging. That was so engaging. Yeah, I did enjoy some of Jamie's acting in that. Yeah, I think
00:08:50
Speaker
For me, it's also probably not one of my favorites. And I realize now, when I think of a good scene, I think of something that's very emotive. And so that all happens at the end. I think that's probably covers the last couple of seconds.
00:09:09
Speaker
And also, I've got to say, Amelia A Hart's hair just really distracted by her wig or something. Yeah. I literally, as we said that though, I just Googled her and her Wiki entry. And they actually got an actress who looked exactly like her. And the hair as well is like complete replica. Well, I did get excited when I saw the actress because I have watched Rosalia Niles and she's in there and I'm like, I know her. But I didn't know her like 20 years ago when I watched her as a child. What was she in? Sharon Lawrence. Her name is Sharon Lawrence, I think.
00:09:37
Speaker
I mean, she's been in a lot, like, NYPD Blue, tons of stuff, but I just know it's on Zodiac Isles. Oh. Zodiac and Isles. Zodiac and Isles. I wouldn't recommend it, but it's a crime drama, so I watched it. Okay. No offense to anyone on Zodiac Isles. I really enjoyed it, but it's not brilliant.
Plot Exploration: Discovery in Space
00:10:00
Speaker
I have to be honest, I still don't know what the name is from you saying that.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I always said to me, you should watch Rizzoli and Iles. You should watch Rizzoli and Iles because then you are like prime dramas. And I was like, I don't know what you're saying. Rizzoli and Iles. That's what's come up as I put in Zoli and Iles into Google. Not that I'm not 100% focused on the subject matter in hand and not that I'm not diving around all over the place. Okay. Well, um,
00:10:28
Speaker
Anything to add to your initial reactions? I think we've got like a two split here, two, one. Interesting to hear that you were really sucked in, Jamie. So you were already taking us through the teaser. Do you want to take us from the rust to the kind of automobile floating in space? Well, yeah, it's sort of an interesting start from the bridge of Voyager and effectively sensors picking up
00:10:56
Speaker
something that to us, 20th century and 21st century denizens sounds very much like the residue of a car when they're talking about there's, you know, iron oxide in space. And Jane, we're questioning, does someone want to tell me how in an atmosphere where there's no oxygen, something is rusting out here? And that's effectively being the trail of breadcrumbs that leads them to
00:11:24
Speaker
what they discover is a floating truck, which is possibly one of the more random objects that a Star Trek crew has discovered in my experience. Agreed. But yeah, I love, I absolutely loved the reaction to it. And I also love the fact that when they go and investigate it, there's a complete twist because you go from this atmosphere of something completely familiar
00:11:53
Speaker
but in a completely unfamiliar setting that Tom Paris then goes into. Yeah, so you take us into Acron, I think. So before we hit there, Janie, anything on the teaser? I mean, I just thought it was a bit surreal when you see this truck floating in space, not what I expected. Yeah, do you know what? I think I'm probably going to have probably not as much to say in the first half. I was thinking this when I was watching it. I was like, I think one thing that happens when you're not as engaged in this episode is
00:12:22
Speaker
You don't naturally sort of come up with comments. You don't have the verbal diarrhea that I do. Yeah, I don't have as many reactions in my brain. If that makes any sense. But I feel like I have more to say as we go towards the end. Just buzz in. I can do some of the, due to Red's fabulous act notes, I could do some of the descriptions.
00:12:50
Speaker
Oh, yes, sorry, I kind of messed them up in my own. So I'll think about that next time. Because I put my own notes into those things and split them up. So I can't remember what is the description I put in and what is my own notes, if that makes sense. Interesting.
00:13:05
Speaker
Um, but yes, I think in act one, we're in the cargo bay and they investigating this truck. And Tom Paris, as you've said, is the petrol head and he identifies it as a 1936 Ford truck. And this scene, I think it's very humorous, Jamie. So there were a lot of. I agree. I agree. Sorry, I cut across to you just cause I was about to jump in. Well, I think one that you might not have found as funny as me is when Tom, like Tom is describing it and Harry's like, is this a precursor to the hovercraft?
00:13:32
Speaker
Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. But I just, the idea that something this primitive was a precursor to the whole of a craft, I actually found that hilarious. But I also found it really hilarious when Tuvok starts introducing, almost introducing the scene, telling the crew that this is a mid 20th century earth vehicle.
00:13:55
Speaker
and Tom Paris just cuts across him in probably one of the only instances where Tom Paris will show a more in-depth expertise on any subject than Tuvok and says, actually, it's a 1937 Ford, to be precise. And I just find that equally funny, actually. Oh, I missed that moment, unfortunately. I mean, it did happen to your favourite security officer. Yes, maybe I just block out when he's disrespected.
00:14:23
Speaker
But yeah, I find it really funny. And then he manages to switch the engine on. And Tuvok says, we must clear the bay and we must also fumigate as though the exhaust fumes are just utterly, utterly unbearable. Yes, I think yeah, I mean, that was
00:14:42
Speaker
When Tom Paris is like getting into the car, because they figure out that they can probably start it. He's like, this is the full voice command activation. It should be something called a key. But again, it's like, I live in the future that they describe because we voice activate command many things. And yes, when the engine backfired and like, everyone like ducks are covering two volt rules. It's very funny.
00:15:07
Speaker
And also this is the moment in my life where I discovered that AM stands for amplitude modulation. Hmm, me too. I didn't discover that this episode. I'm afraid I did. Yeah, but I was thinking this is probably really embarrassing. I actually had no idea what I really stood for. And to be clear, I didn't discover this episode. I discovered it this conversation. Not trying to say I already knew that I was saying I missed the detail.
00:15:34
Speaker
I wasn't trying to be like really patronizing. Thanks, thanks. I feel a little better. So they are playing around at the radio and Balana identifies this like sounds as an ancient distress call, which they identify as SOS. And they're kind of like, well, Janeway wants to know why they haven't discovered it before now. And it's because it's too slow, basically. It's not like a sound frequency that I guess starships and
00:16:04
Speaker
views. And so I guess at this point, this wants them, they need to find the source of this distress signal, which leads them to the discovery of this L-class planet, which has, for some reason, they can't take a shuttle to, uh, trinimic interference, storms. Ah, so they have to land the whole of Voyager. Well, I guess they have to land Voyager.
00:16:37
Speaker
I was just sort of intrigued by the the amount of drama from the musical
00:16:46
Speaker
background landing so sort of you have Janeway stand up and say we're going to land the ship or something and this beautiful melody swells and the strings come out and then the whole way through the landing there's a
00:17:03
Speaker
real, I don't know how to describe it, like patriotic kind of theme song. Yeah, it's just, I don't know, I guess I was kind of curious about what, I guess it's to indicate that it's a big deal that they're landing the starship. I mean, Tom Paris, pilot par excellence, had never landed a starship before.
00:17:24
Speaker
Can you believe that? I'm all about the skipper. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we do find that out, but I didn't notice the music. So when I'm taking all these notes, I miss a lot of things, miss some things, but that is very interesting. It's also kind of, and not to say it's because they're using a CGI, but that was quite a big deal having that scene with like CGI and I wonder if they want to be like with the music and CGI and make it like more emotional or something. And then while just feeling like you're looking at something animated, if you can tell.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, almost cinematic maybe. Yeah, I think it's the cinematic element. Because John Parris was going pretty fast. At one point was he landing at 10,000 kph? Yeah, like what the
00:18:08
Speaker
10,000 kilometers in one hour. How many kilometers does that translate to in one second? I can't do the maths, but I was like, well, he looks like he's going class and then he gave his speed. He's like, he is going fast. Well, he does say later in the episode to the Amelia Earhart that he, that it can travel at, I think, 4 billion per second. I did, I enjoyed that landing stress there.
00:18:36
Speaker
Yeah, because they always use like warp speed. I quite enjoyed, you know, he's like, warp, warp, whatever, which in your terms is four billion kilometers per second. I appreciate that. It is an unusual opportunity for Star Trek as a series to emphasize the scale of its ships, though, because so very rarely do you actually get a chance to compare like, oh, so this is the ship on which X many people are and goes X amount of speed.
00:19:04
Speaker
But you never sort of get to see, well, it's about the size of a 10-story building, 12-story building.
00:19:11
Speaker
the Pentagon or something like that Buckingham Palace and I think when the ship has actually landed it's it's such a rare opportunity to see it and see it in its vast sort of majesty and put into proportion by a planet that I think that rousing music really makes sense and I enjoy it. You know what now more why I think about it well this is a real stats comparison episode because they also mention about the crew complement, I don't know 52 or something and then they're talking about the
00:19:41
Speaker
humans will get to it but the people on the planet which is I think a hundred thousand and yeah there's a lot of that sort of comparison speed comparison going on they were going at 2 kilometers a second 2.777 recurring kilometers a second wow because at one point they were like
00:20:05
Speaker
I can't, 10 kilometers and then a second lady, they were two kilometers away from the surface or something. I could be both surrounded by doing that. But I think, speaking of seeing Voyager on like a planet and getting a scale, that does take us into the next or second act because I think we have that scene that opens with Voyager in the background, some members have disembarked and eventually we split up into two teams. One, to go find the source of the signal, this SOS, I think.
00:20:33
Speaker
And one, two, I wasn't sure what the team was supposed to be doing, but I think looking for like the energy source maybe. I sort of disagree. I think they'd actually, they'd picked up some unusual energy sources which transpired to be not the cave.
00:21:01
Speaker
Oh no, I've got it. Amazingly, I've actually remembered. There goes
Unveiling Historical Figures
00:21:05
Speaker
one team and then the first thing they see is an Earth aeroplane, which they go into investigate and powering this airplane transmitting the signal is an alien energy battery source. Power source.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, so now actually, you know, I think I haven't got it right. Yeah, sorry, Janie. Janeway is with that team that binds the airplane, but then she gets buzzed by Jacote, and he's like, we found the source of the emanations or whatever. And so she joined, they had a mine shaft, and then she joins Jacote's team. And we could probably skip all this.
00:21:43
Speaker
But yes, we find the Christ Jesus changes. It's important we get the detail here. Goodness, guys. I think this is possibly one of the reasons I disengaged a bit though, because I think our three of us and we can't none of us remember like the exact details of how it all fits together. It might be just a bit, a bit too many sort of interweaving, you know,
00:22:11
Speaker
story parts. I'm not sure. Anyway, very well read. Obviously the interesting bit is the cryostasis chambers with eight humans. And I think by looking at them, they can tell they are from the 1930s. And the only thing I will say here before, because I'm sure there's a lot to discuss, is Balana actually picks up that they're still alive. So in these chambers. Yeah.
00:22:34
Speaker
And they're all from different, clearly from the markings of their clothing from different backgrounds and cultures. So you have someone who has the eagle wings of a pilot on their badge. You have someone who appears to be wearing Japanese military uniform. You have a man in sort of office gear. And you have a man who appears to be a farmer as well, which
00:23:02
Speaker
is interesting given Janeway's comment earlier in the episode that she surmised that whoever had driven the truck due to the horse manure and seeds that were stuck in it had probably been a farmer, allowing you to draw a very easy causal link there as to whose Ford truck this might have been. Oh, very good point. I mean, good catch. I think we also briefly see, I mean, later on, a woman in a sari, so an Indian woman. But yes, it's like a kind of
00:23:31
Speaker
I guess these aliens came and tried to get like a sample of humanity. So actually I forgot, but the next scene is in the briefing. Oh no, sorry, I lied. But in the scene also Jamie clears one of the kind of dust off one of these changes and reads. I don't know why she had to read and spell out instead of just read. Did anyone? I didn't think that. Well, she was like, she like reads it. She's like A period.
00:24:01
Speaker
A-R-H-A-R-T-E. And then she very slowly says, Amelia. This brain process is seriously slow. She can't possibly be that slow. She wouldn't be capturing all the stars.
00:24:20
Speaker
read. Maybe she's expecting it not to be English or something. So she was like, let me start up. I feel like maybe this must have been like a stage direction from someone who thought it would be more dramatic if she realized slowly, but it isn't very in character, is it? Yeah, the actress would have just been like, can't I just read? So yes, they back in that they actually go back to a briefing room. I sorry, just a small comment. I think I might have written it down later, but
00:24:48
Speaker
I love seeing the sky from the windows in the background whenever they're in rooms on Voyager. The blue sky in the background instead of the stars. I mean, I love seeing the stars, but it just made a nice change in the background. And then, so we're in the briefing room and I love because I thought it was this time it was Harry Kim's turn to ask the dumb question, who is Amelia Earhart?
00:25:16
Speaker
Because if I normally give those roles to Paris, wouldn't have worked in this case, I guess. I mean, Paris is off there on the planet exploring and boldly going where no man has gone before, apart from abducted ones. So, you know, someone's got to do the dumbass thing.
00:25:32
Speaker
I did quite like that, that comment, that question, because I feel like that's a bit more realistic, because would they know that much? I mean, however many hundreds, thousands. I mean, that's probably quite a minor character, and especially it's a very US focused character as well.
00:25:53
Speaker
No, no, I mean, the only other sort of reference to history that I can sort of remember in a Star Trek movie or indeed episode is actually on the sort of remakes of the first generation Star Trek where Captain Kirk plays the Beastie Boys and Spock turns to him and says, is that classical music?
00:26:20
Speaker
I don't know. I'm sure we're going to have some history references again. But yes, I think, well obviously this is a nice opportunity for the audience to learn about Amelia Earhart if they don't know her. And it does turn out later that she is a hero of Janeway. So Janeway knows her history. She was the first female pilot or well-known female pilot. She disappeared. And then she does
00:26:45
Speaker
say like you know what no one was sure already what happened to her but there was this very the most ridiculed notion was this like she'd been abducted by aliens just like what obviously um happened as jakota points out um but they're kind of like they all ask themselves why would they have ducked by aliens and if they were abducted by aliens why can't we pick up any aliens in the area so they're a bit bloody hard to pick aliens up yeah sorry why can't they pick up any aliens with their senses and their technology
00:27:15
Speaker
I mean, however you pick someone up, Red, is how you pick them up. Or not at all. You have to pick up an alien, let me tell you. Some of us have tried very hard. Sorry, I don't want to say that. I remember that I forgot something from an earlier scene, but basically, Janeway wants to wake them up because see if they can get any insights about the Delta Quadrant. And also they realized if someone brought them here to the Delta Quadrant,
00:27:44
Speaker
it might be a ship or some technology around that could take Voyager back. Yeah, I, I thought this was a very quickly made decision, considering the sort of, I thought it was a bit of an ethical dilemma, really, because these people are going to be like, shocked and horrified. Yeah. Who knows what else traumatized everyone they know is dead, you know. But on the other hand, she does say,
00:28:09
Speaker
was the alternative, we'd leave them for another 400 years. Which is a good point. And interestingly, she tries to soften their land, or I don't know if it's her or someone else who tries to soften their landing by saying there should only be humans present when they're awake. But they then decide that Kez can be disguised as a human. Yeah, I mean, I think that was also something I noticed and Kez
00:28:34
Speaker
It does look pretty human to me. She does, although in a later scene, she seems very uncomfortable when her ears were exposed. But anyway, let's carry on. Yeah, we'll get there. So they have to wake up the aliens, some of the aliens, so I use humans simultaneously because they're all connected, I think, through this cryostasis chamber.
00:28:54
Speaker
And obviously, there's a bit of a Ferrari. I don't know if that's how you pronounce that word, but for some reason, that's what came to me. And they all... Ferrari. Yeah. I thought it was for all. For all, that's better. Yes. As I said, I don't know how to pronounce it. Well, I guess it's a good apology. People don't take it well. So, yeah, one of the first things that happens is that they introduce the concept of the universal translator, which I thought was kind of funny because
00:29:25
Speaker
And like, you know, there's people that watch shows that they try to like, catch mistakes, or like, things that are out of sequence. And you can imagine people watching this being like, how can they all understand each other? So they just quickly got that out the way being like, one of the real awakened humans is like, wait, you still think there's, there's a plot link that's missing here. Because I can understand how they can understand the modern, you know, the crew of Voyager, understand how the Americans
00:29:55
Speaker
understand them. I can understand how the Japanese can understand the crew of Voyager. What I can't understand is how the Japanese chap can understand the American chaps and chapesses who don't have a universal translator and are from his time period. Oh I assume they gave everyone universal translators. Do they? Because they literally took them out and start talking to them. When do they give them the translators, Natalie? When do they give them the translators?
00:30:22
Speaker
This is something that I found a hole. Sorry, too much enthusiasm here. Well, do we know that the translator is an actual physical device that is placed on everyone? I had to pick a hole in my hole. I'm really grumpy about this. It's a good question. Good point. Um, so Jamie is trying to explain to them, like her theory that they were abducted by aliens and put into the deep sleep.
00:30:48
Speaker
Because the year now is 2371. I did make a note of that, even though these dates normally fly past me. Jamie asked me how to describe the last thing she remembers, which sounds very much like an alien abduction to me.
Tensions and Cultural Exchanges
00:31:06
Speaker
A clean, froze still the air.
00:31:10
Speaker
And again, I'll just mention that for some reason as a child, I was very afraid of being abducted by aliens. But this was obviously not something that affected you guys. I mean, I've never been abducted, so it doesn't affect me emotionally.
00:31:31
Speaker
I love the fact I was able to imply you were. I'm so sorry. I don't know if I should lean into it and get read. It's okay. You don't need to deny this. But anyway, we cannot confirm or deny the rumor that one of our podcasts has been abducted by aliens.
00:31:51
Speaker
Um, I can do some marketing in a, I was saying about that cost. I can't accept it. Um, and anyway, all this is a bit too much for everyone, I think. And Fred Noonan, Amelia's, Amelia, your heart navigator, basically tries to take the awaiting. He pulls a gun. Yeah. And he's doing well though, because he pulls the gun, points it in Janeway's face and manages to get an entire
00:32:19
Speaker
uh star trek crew of security goons to put their guns down and let their skipper get taken hostage which i'm impressed by i'm i'm thinking someone who's making a case for star player right there um kind of at the same time jakote like
00:32:37
Speaker
I never know what to say. I don't know how to describe when, like, he beams in, he messages in, he... Calms in. Calms in. To say... So he can hear what's happening. They realize that this Janeway's away team's in trouble. But he also tells him, tells Janeway that they detected alien lifeforms.
00:32:58
Speaker
So that's like another piece of the puzzle that we get. But also we realized that Tuvok is going to lead a security team to kind of go to the aid of the Nile. Oh, he is. Oh, that away team. So during this time, Janeway is still trying to persuade these newly awakened humans, like, you know, like, I guess the truth.
00:33:20
Speaker
and their theory. And I did like her one line that she, oh, which I didn't even write down properly, but she kind of starts her argument, which was there was a time when no one believed that women could fly across the Atlantic and now people fly across the stars or from star to star. And you sort of see Amelia's face perk up a little bit like, oh, I might be interested by this version of reality they're selling. Yeah. Then Jamie tries to use Kez as an example of the alien, just with her little ears, but that's not very convincing.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's an excellent response from Amelia, I think, because I'd be super skeptical as well if I was in their position. I'd say, well, I've seen all kinds of strange things that humans do to their bodies. That doesn't mean she's an alien. So good point. That's a very good point. Yeah, I mean, am I the only one who thinks Kez is really uncomfortable when her ears are exposed?
00:34:13
Speaker
I can see it on my head, that scene actually, but I think I was busy taking notes, but she kind of looked physically uncomfortable. I didn't notice anything, but I may have missed it. Yeah, I don't know. There's an edge there. Anyway, let's crack on. No, I mean, I'm sure there was, but as I said, sometimes these things go over my head because I'm looking at my screen.
00:34:41
Speaker
Just one more interesting point, which was that Harry Kim was explains that we learned that Mars was colonized by people from Earth in 2103. So do you think Elon Musk is going to do it before 2103? Or is he going to be dead when Mars is finally colonized? And then he's going to be so pleased. We can but hope. We really can. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Strike that from the record. Yeah. I didn't mean that.
00:35:09
Speaker
Navigator is really not getting on board with any of these arguments, but later Janeway tries to get Amelia Earhart on her own. And she uses this classic negotiation techniques, flattery, but I think she's being honest here and transparent. But yeah, like I think she said something like, you've always been an inspiration to me and explains that she's now captain of Starship and how Amelia Earhart probably inspired thousands of captains, I think.
00:35:39
Speaker
And then I, then Janeway's like, do you want to know what happened after you disappeared? And we find out that one of the theories is that Emile Yehot was taken prisoner by the Japanese for trying to spy on Japanese occupied
00:35:53
Speaker
land or islands, which is like, was a very new theory to me. It was to me as well. I didn't know that was one of the theories. And yeah, and then and then she backs it up with like historically what happened because in I don't know how many years after that's when Pearl Harbor was attacked. And wow, this, this makes a lot of logical sense. Who knew? I was like, this is a lot of creative license. And they are like, and then I did some Googling and I was like, okay, that is being proposed as a theory. And that was as far as I
00:36:21
Speaker
I was like oh my god I've never heard that. That was clever the way they weaved that in though. But then the people who had the three folk thought, least likely, thought she'd been abducted by aliens. Yes. Dot dot dot. Which said not to be true. But I think Emilia Hart says something like oh no one, how do you know, no one is supposed to know that about this Japanese connection. That convinces her that Jane Lee's
00:36:51
Speaker
not just talking complete nonsense. She says it's part of history now. It's common knowledge. Yes. I was like a creative license. A lot of stuff got declassified lately. But maybe it will be common knowledge back, you know, in the year that they're in. Very good point. So the scene just, this act just wraps up with, I guess, this short scene with too much code and it's
00:37:21
Speaker
trying to undertake this rescue mission. I guess they get to outside this mine or whatever, but they get pinned down by open
Historical Revelations and Decisions
00:37:30
Speaker
fire. All these aliens, well, these things dressed in these three outfits. So I'm firing on this security team and they get pinned down. It's like de-envibed to their outfit as well. Can't see anything of their faces or their bodies. No, yeah. Also quite an inept ambush, I thought.
00:37:52
Speaker
Well, yes, the rescue team needs rescuing. It covers themselves in glory, this scene. Let's leave it at that. This isn't about blaming people or finding, you know, scapegoats. This is about finding a solution and possibly signing up the rescue and away team to
00:38:15
Speaker
I don't know, re-assignation of GCs as maybe the toilet cleaning team might be in order. When you think about it, it actually is pretty inept on all parties because as we find out, you know, in the next few minutes, that no one really knows what they're doing in this scene. Because I mean, I could carry on if you like. No, carry on. Sorry. I saw that it's still recording your side, so I just stopped talking until I am.
00:38:44
Speaker
Oh, that's it. Of course my fingers otherwise there'll be a gap. But yeah, so basically after the other the team leave the mineshaft and they're getting fired on as well. Jane Way says she says I'm going to go around the back. So whilst Jokote and Tuvok provide cover by continuing to fire, she sneaks around the back and manages to surprise the what we believe are aliens. And then it turns out that really no one no one knows what they're doing. Massive incompetence because the aliens remove
00:39:14
Speaker
Well, she basically, they find out that Janeway is human and they are shocked and they remove their, I don't know, helmets, I guess, face masks. And they're human too. And at that point they agreed to stop firing on each other for no reason. But boy are they pissed because they think that Janeway has disturbed the sanctuary of the 37 and is a Briori. Not yet, I think that's a little bit. But they keep mentioning, I think this is when we first hear about the Briori.
00:39:43
Speaker
because they're like, Oh, you were the Briari or the Briari? Yeah. So yeah, so something I should have maybe said is that at the end of the last, like kind of when they're still in the prior chambers, Janeway manages to convince the 37s or the newly awakened humans that the best way they can prove their theory to them is taking them into Voyager. And that's why they were kind of on their way out and got
00:40:08
Speaker
involved in a skirmish in which the navigator got injured. So we see, I just want to discuss this little scene in sickbay where he took his love for me. The doctor properly heals him because he thought he was on his deathbed and he's like, oh no, we can't just let this go that simply. I mean, there are so many touches of this scene that are just wonderful. I mean,
00:40:36
Speaker
The fact that it starts off with him saying, Amelia, I think I'm a goner now. And the doctor says, oh, I would be so sure about that. And he goes, why? And the doctor tries to heal him and then says, oh, the amount of alcohol in your system is inhibiting our healing tool. And then he declares his love, thinking he's going to die. And then the doctor says, OK, you're fine now. Which Mr. Noonan goes,
00:41:03
Speaker
Let's forget it. I, I ever said this and Mina says, I already have. Yeah, very quite humorous. But again, just, I guess we find out that this Newton guy was an alcoholic. I'm not sure that's historically accurate or not. Um, but, uh, can we keep them yawning to a minimum? So sorry. It's.
00:41:27
Speaker
Oh, it's my first day of day or few weeks in a new job and I'm absolutely shattered. Sorry about it. No worries. Um, so now maybe now we're getting into the interesting stuff because now we're in the briefing room and, um, Janeway is kind of finding out from this guy, which she calls Mr Evansville. Um, so that's according to Wikipedia. And from what I could pick up, kind of, we get a history of this, this human, why these humans are on this planet. So who wants to tackle this, this history?
00:41:56
Speaker
Go, Jenny. I'll try. I'm going to try. And apologies in advance. Forget it all wrong. So these people who they thought were aliens dressed in the dune suits around for humans explain that they arrived there as descendants of the humans that were abducted by the Biori.
00:42:13
Speaker
In 1937, I don't remember that, I'm just reading Red's excellent notes. So thank you, Red. And then obviously, Janeway is keen to know, you know, what about the ship that the Biori brought you here in? Is it still here? Can we use it to get home? But unfortunately, that was destroyed when
00:42:35
Speaker
Basically the Biori were using the humans they abducted as slaves. Slaves rose up. Yes the slaves rose up and that was when they took over and the Biori left and never came back but also their ship was destroyed unfortunately. So there's no way for them to get home using it.
00:42:53
Speaker
And then they talk a little bit about the 37s, I believe, which is what the humans that inhabit the planet call the humans that were in the cryostasis units. There were 37 of them originally, I think. And the ones that are left are the ones that were left frozen, but the other ones unfroze and that's what populated the planet into three glorious cities, he says.
00:43:20
Speaker
And then, you know, they all make friends and they say, come and visit our city. Life on our planet is good. He emphasizes really, really strongly.
Crew's Choice: Stay or Continue?
00:43:30
Speaker
Yeah, he's really enthusiastic. We've got three incredible cities. I sort of love that moment. Yeah.
00:43:38
Speaker
He's very proud, isn't he? Very proud of what they've achieved in overthrowing the brewery, building it. What Janeway mentions later is similar to what they've built on Earth in that it's a society free of war and poverty, which makes me a little bit sad about what we've done in real life with Earth. I was like, could I be watching this episode?
00:44:00
Speaker
More inopportune time? Yeah, could I be him? Could I just live in this? Yeah. I couldn't agree more. But then we moved to Janeway on her own, looking contemptuously out of window where she's... Oh, sorry.
00:44:16
Speaker
I just want to quickly jump in there because we do, we never actually see these beautiful cities, sadly. On-line reviews of this episode, there's a lot of discussion about that. I agree. I would have liked to see them. Just some kind of artistic rendering. But before we get to Captain's Ready Room, we just, I think, the scene you already mentioned earlier, but we have the scene between Tom Paris and Amelia Earhart, which was quite nice because they're two pilots and they're both basically discussing like, how fast can you go? I'll show you that innate pilot personality, I guess, that they have in common.
00:44:46
Speaker
And maybe that's when you did that conversion, Jamie. I can't remember, but. It is. Yeah. Yeah. And she's very excited about how fast this hardship can go. I just thought it was a nice moment of two people with a lot in common, like, you know, noting out stuff. Yes, Jamie, then we in this, we have a scene in the captain's ready room. Well, yeah. And it's a very, I find this actually one of the most emotional scenes on Voyager that I've sort of seen.
00:45:16
Speaker
because it starts with the captain looking out the window contemplatively and really sadly and she's joined by Chakotay and they start to talk and comment on their experiences and it transpires that the captain is wondering whether she should give the crew the choice to stay and in a real conflict between herself of whether she should order them to stay, whether she should give them the chance to stay, whether she should order them to go,
00:45:47
Speaker
And she talks herself in circles saying, I can't give the crew a vote on every major decision, but they would be at home here, you know, these three wonderful cities. And then she eventually sort of frustratedly decides she's going to give the crew the choice and tells the crew that there'll be a major announcement at 1400 hours, I think it is, in which she informs the crew of the situations as anyone who wants to stay.
00:46:15
Speaker
meet her in the cargo bay. She doesn't say for what, which might explain the last scene, alternative interpretations coming, but she does say so. And then we move to... Well, I think let's pause there because there's a lot to discuss in that scene. And also, a hand has flown up in a Star Trek symbol salute. Our next scene is in Act 5, so let's focus on Act 4. So, Janie, yeah, I think that's probably one of your more interesting scenes.
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like it gets really interesting from this point on because it's a bit more of a, I guess, moral conundrum. If it's a risky decision she makes, but it's a difficult choice because it's possible that enough of the crew will want to stay. And, you know, it's totally understandable. They would that they don't know how long it's going to take to get home.
00:47:01
Speaker
their current estimate is the rest of their lives. They'd probably be dead by the time the crew reaches home. So they either live their entire lives on this starship of 152 people or they've got this planet full of humans, beautiful, glorious cities, 100,000 people. But the risk, of course, is that if more than a certain amount choose to stay, then the decision has been made for the remaining crew members who cannot pilot the ship alone.
00:47:28
Speaker
Um, although now I think that now it occurs to me that maybe there'd be people on the planet who wanted an adventure and she used to come, although, I mean, committing to her entire life in space. It's a big, yeah, it's a big decision. Um, and yeah, I was really surprised actually that she gave them the choice in the end, but, um, then again, she's gonna have to, so I don't know.
00:47:54
Speaker
Well, her final line I think in that scene is they deserve to make the choice for themselves, which seems risky, but I think is the right decision.
00:48:07
Speaker
It's weird, though, because it's almost like it could be actually taking the choice away. Yes, I think if that was the outcome, they would have to do another referendum. Oh, no, Red, you didn't. As a step one, I think it was the right choice, the right decision. Yeah, I mean, she could have phrased it like, look, first of all, let's see how many of you actually want to stay and then we'll decide what we do. I guess you can't do that, can you?
00:48:36
Speaker
But it's, it's an interesting conversation to experience as well of, well, how many crew do we have? Okay. 150. How many do we re realistically think we could run the ship with a hundred minimum? And so you realize that the risk is even greater than we think, because not only does she risk losing the crew members, but she also risks losing the ability of those who wanted to continue searching for a way home to find a way home.
00:49:06
Speaker
Yes, I think Jenny did cover that. Thank you, Jamie, for covering it again. Oh God, sorry. That's what we've been talking about the last moment. Yeah. You could just tune into our podcast, it's called Jamie's. Oh, for God's sake.
00:49:24
Speaker
It's the new job, the new job. We're letting it go. I'm absolutely exhausted. So yes, taking us into the final scene. I'm wondering if we could do this episode in 10 minutes. I mean, in the remaining 10 minutes, we did an hour, but maybe that's a silly goal. But as you said, Jamie, in the kind of final act, everyone knows that they need to make this call, they need to make this decision. So as these conversations
00:49:47
Speaker
conversations happening around the ship. And the first conversation we see is actually with the 37s, the remaining 37s in a mess hall with Mieleks, who's being a very hospitable host. I love the way he had prepared some gel o for the Americans. And replicated some ginger for the Japanese 37. He does manage to do a bit of self delusion though, because I hear him telling someone that the captain relies on him heavily.
00:50:15
Speaker
Well, yes, I was going to say the 37s are discussing whether to stay or go, and Neelix is like, I'm definitely not leaving for the reasons that you just gave, but yes. And then we also see Belanna Torres and Harry Kim discussing.
00:50:29
Speaker
And I didn't make too many notes about this, but it was almost like in their attempt to understand the understanding of people that might want to leave, they kind of assumed the other person wants to leave. And when I kept getting up, it worked up. So both of the others saying, you want to leave, no, you want to leave. I can understand why someone would leave. You want to leave? Are you leaving? It was in two different sentences. So I think Milana is shocked that Harry would even consider staying because he's been such a like,
00:50:57
Speaker
I want to get home kind of guy and he's got young, his parents still alive and they'll be waiting for him and things. But even he is considering it, does he? Considering it. Yeah, that is a good point.
Emotional Resolutions and Unity
00:51:09
Speaker
Then we have a scene on the planet's surface with the Janeway and Amelia Earhart, who reveals to Janeway that she and the rest of the 37s have decided to stay. Basically because they related to the other inhabitants on this planet, which seems fair enough. I mean, probably a couple of other things.
00:51:26
Speaker
And this is the moment where they have that line, Janie, that you brought up, like these two parallel civilizations to corrupt a world you can be proud of, one where war and poverty simply don't exist. We're not there yet. And as you said, at this point, we find out that those who want to
00:51:44
Speaker
Oh, I said stay. I mean, you need must be in the cargo bay in 30 minutes time. And I, I really love this bit, actually. I think I really like Kate's Mulberry's acting in it. Oh, yes, there's some. It's really emotional, I thought. Yeah, so she's, she's walking down the corridor with Jokote. And they're discussing who they think will stay and who will leave. And they both have an idea about
00:52:08
Speaker
you know, I think this person might might leave, you know, he's he's got a partner and they want to settle down and you know, there's, you know, they each have their ideas basically. And then it basically ends with them saying, well, I don't really want either of them to leave, I want no one to leave, you know.
00:52:24
Speaker
And you can tell that they're getting quite a quite worked up, ready preparing themselves for the cargo bay doors to open and you know, who knows maybe the entire crew will be there, maybe even five people will be there, but that will be sad to them because they want everyone to stay. And I just think it's really well acted the sort of suspense. And then the cargo bay doors open.
00:52:45
Speaker
And there's a great camera angle going on. As they walk through the cargo bay doors, first you only see Janeway's face and then it revolves around to see the cargo bay itself. And it is in fact empty.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, and then my favourite bit of the acting of the episode actually is the look on Katie Mulgrew's face, I think is really well acted. Oh, it's amazing. I like Welder when I saw her face. Yeah, it's emotional, but she's like trying to contain the emotion because, you know, she's the captain. But she's obviously really affected. I think she just acts those facial expressions really well.
00:53:24
Speaker
I felt like I could really relate. Normally you can relate if you've been through something similar, but then I was like, I've never been through something similar. People had just like, I mean, maybe on a smaller scale, like, so I was like, no, I haven't experienced anything that like in my life, but her expression was just so good that I felt it. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. It felt like someone realizing that those who are closest to them are there for them.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's it. That's what's related to it is when you are surprised by something, because some people in your life have suddenly surprisingly showed that they care or loyalty or something of that ilk. And it's such a lovely feeling, even more so I think when it's a surprise.
00:54:05
Speaker
You think, oh, you know, I hadn't affected this person, all these people's lives that much, or been that close to them. But they obviously did have some faithful loyalty in me. And that's a lovely feeling. Yeah, so well acted. And wonderfully acted.
00:54:26
Speaker
And then I think there's also, I mean, I just summarise it as the ship lifts off watched by the 37s who decided to stay and the crew resumes their quest to return home. But actually we do have that scene in the bridge where I think there's two of us, someone say captain on the bridge, Janeway enters. He has like this eye contact with each member of the crew and it's like this very kind of special or emotional moment. It's a common moment. And then they're off again.
00:54:56
Speaker
on the way back to the Alpha Quadrant. But yeah, really, there's a lot of no emotion, and then a lot of emotion. It's all squeezed in by emotion at the end. I don't know. I have to think about themes. Does anyone want to have a go at themes? I did think about that during it. And my thoughts were, I'm struggling to identify themes in this. I'm sure they're really obvious. And I just... The crew being a family? Ah, yes.
00:55:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think yeah, there's probably historical roots. This isn't a theme, but this is something I'm just I would want to know an awful lot more about the Briori. They abducted a bunch of people bred a civilization then got overthrown by them and then ran away. Who the hell were they? Why are they abducting humans to the to a completely different quadrant?
00:55:57
Speaker
It could have been fun if we'd met them again, like we meet some other aliens. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Vengeful, but fun. Yeah, I think the theme of, maybe it's like, well, it's not even chosen family because these people did not choose to be. I do notice in the last sort of couple of episodes, this episode and the last episode,
00:56:26
Speaker
of the previous series. They were at pains to emphasize things that bonded the crew together. So first of all, it was the Maki and the Starfleet crew members. And this time it was all just the crew into a cohesive whole. And yeah, I just noticed that continuation.
00:56:46
Speaker
Yes, I guess it's just like a recommitment to each other and a kind of bonding moment, even though it wasn't like a suffering bonding moment, like they are for deciding to stay together. And times tough and times not so tough. Yeah. So, um, star clear.
00:57:10
Speaker
I think Noonan does what the entire Delta Quadrant fails to do and takes the Skipper hostage. I think it's got to be him. I think you know mine just for Janeway's last 10 minutes, I think. Fantastic, fantastic acting. Actually, I would like to change mine. So we find out in this episode that the Skipper relies on Neelix heavily, so it should be Neelix. What was your first choice?
00:57:40
Speaker
My first choice was Noonan. Noonan. OK, well, I was going to say I could take your first choice, but I don't think I can do that. But I can't believe Jamie has come so far around that he's chosen Felix, even if it's facetiously. Even if it was sarcastic. I wasn't being facetious. I was being sarcastic. And the exhaustion is making me incoherent. So I'm not in my right mind, Reg. You can't. I'm not sure that you voted for Felix as your stopping. Under duress.
00:58:11
Speaker
I will go, let's say, I don't know, maybe I'll just go for immediate Earhart because she was the, no, I can't really come up with a good reason. She just is my story. She felled in her spying mission. Yeah, because she was played by Sharon Lawrence, who I enjoyed watching in Rosalia Dials. Not a very good reason, but I was excited to see her on screen. So I was like, oh my gosh.
00:58:39
Speaker
Okay. It's under one hour. It's under one hour. And it's going to be some editing. So this could be like our shortest episode of all time. I'm not going to jump in because I will ruin the hour thing. I've already written enough. Yeah. Nope. I'm done. You sure? One minute. One minute. I was going to say maybe, just maybe, it's because Jamie's tired. Yes, maybe. And I thought, bye. Bye.