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We watch "Death Wish" (S2 Ep.18) image

We watch "Death Wish" (S2 Ep.18)

S2 E18 · Janeway's Children
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Welcome to Janeway’s Children

This week we are watching "Death Wish”, where we meet the infamous (and cheeky) Q, but also grapple with some difficult decisions.

We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.

Theme music by Alain D

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Transcript

Introduction and Podcast Trivia

00:00:00
Red D
Three, two, one, and let's see if I hit the right jingle.
00:00:04
El Platypo
Wait, what dance party are we doing?
00:00:06
Red D
I can't remember, is this the intro or ultra? This is the intro.
00:00:09
El Platypo
Change it.
00:00:09
Red D
No, this is the intro.
00:00:10
Jen
ah
00:00:11
El Platypo
I want the outro.
00:00:12
Red D
Oh wait, sorry. Let me.
00:00:15
Jen
such a professional outfit oh i didn't realize they were different actually sorry i probably should have noticed that before
00:00:15
El Platypo
ah
00:00:16
Red D
Oh yes, sorry. The one at the end is the first intro.
00:00:24
Red D
Oh my God. And again, these were done by my brother. Uh, but the dance moves are all Jamie.
00:00:33
El Platypo
of doing the paw and the shark fin.
00:00:36
Red D
You know, I wanted to do a poll when I was in my twenties and someone said, I've ever seen you doing it on the dance floor. I'm going to come over and slap you.
00:00:43
Jen
Wow, that's a strong reaction.
00:00:46
Red D
I think it's because I had good
00:00:46
Jen
I mean Jade, that looks more like half shark. Don't smooth.
00:00:50
Red D
moves, Jamie. Okay. This is really fun for the non-visual medium.
00:01:00
Red D
I've never really let this jingle play out. Okay, I'm gonna hit it.
00:01:02
Jen
This is a really, I feel like it's not usually that long.
00:01:06
Red D
No, I normally stop it.
00:01:07
Jen
Oh wait.
00:01:07
Red D
And I was hoping it would fade out professionally, but Jamie left, was, I was.
00:01:11
Jen
Are you just enjoying his sweet dance moves, Rhett?
00:01:15
El Platypo
Sorry everyone, there was some street dance and then there was a ginger cat involved. Everyone's standard start to a podcast.

Leadership and Decision-Making Discussion

00:01:24
Jen
so
00:01:24
Red D
So today, Jenny, you're leading us, take it away.
00:01:26
Jen
So... Right, okay. Well, I think it's starting off with the one minute summary, if I'm not mistaken.
00:01:34
Red D
Would you like to remind us what episode we are?
00:01:37
Jen
Oh!
00:01:37
El Platypo
Please say no, please say no, please say no.
00:01:39
Jen
That'd be a really good idea, wouldn't it? Season two, episode 18, Death Wish.
00:01:44
El Platypo
No, Jenny, you can't just let us lead you when you're leading.
00:01:45
Red D
Yes.
00:01:48
El Platypo
Fred tells you to do something, you've got you've got to, you know, be like the boss from Nevermind the Buzzcocks and be like, no, no, I wouldn't. And things like that when things are suggested.
00:01:57
Red D
I really want to be in a fly on the wall in Jamie's office now.
00:01:57
Jen
No, no, no. I think, I'm not one of those people, Jamie, when someone makes a good suggestion in a meeting, I don't immediately dismiss it because it wasn't made by me.
00:02:12
Jen
I'm not one of those people.
00:02:12
El Platypo
Well, I tend to immediately, and in terms of the most adamant ah bossness, just go, no. Let a moment's silence pass and then I go, which is my way of saying, yes, absolutely. Please excuse the fact I have a personality problem.
00:02:29
Red D
I hope everyone's already picking up the similarities between Jamie and Q.

Voyager Encounters Ethical Dilemmas

00:02:34
El Platypo
I am hurt by that. He, you know, is an amateur of, you know, pretty limited powers and scope. um But so, to the one minute summary, which I have been so, so proactively set up for. During this episode, we see the intrepid crew of Voyager jaying through the Delta Quadrant and finding an unidentified object flying through space, which appears to be a comet.
00:03:01
El Platypo
on scanning it and trying to teleport a sample of the comet back into the spaceship, they actually teleport what appears to be a person. It then transpires that this person is in fact a mysterious member of the race known as the Kew continuum, who have in fact been encountered by such luminaries as Jean-Luc Picard Riker and presumably the ranking officer of whichever Borg crew they were introduced to by the queue continue as we find out during this. The episode centres on the dilemma in which the queue they found seeks asylum on Star Trek Voyager and effectively asks for political protection as he wishes to commit suicide to escape what he claims are the cruel and intolerable conditions in which he is kept.
00:03:55
El Platypo
It then transpires that he is being kept in these conditions to avoid him taking his own life, as this would quote-unquote be of massive disruption to the continuum. We then see the intrepid crew run what can only be described as the worst ah HR Tribunal ever,
00:04:16
Red D
Come on.
00:04:16
El Platypo
um for constructive dismissal from an alien race to decide whether they will take on this weighty charge.

Star Trek Familiarity and Personal Reflections

00:04:26
El Platypo
How was that?
00:04:27
Jen
I'm tapping.
00:04:29
Red D
Yeah, that was brilliant, Jamie.
00:04:29
Jen
I don't know if you can hear it.
00:04:30
Red D
I think, honestly, that was one of your best ever.
00:04:33
El Platypo
I mean I tried to take pauses between words and then the cat joined so you know that was fine.
00:04:33
Jen
oh
00:04:38
Red D
I mean, each one has its own special character of your one minute summer meeting. So I'm not saying it should all be like this, but it was just very good.
00:04:42
Jen
Yeah.
00:04:45
Jen
It was very good. I enjoyed that one, but I also enjoy the ones where you managed to do it in one hilarious sentence. I think those are very impressive. So no, no.
00:04:52
El Platypo
but Yeah, but this one couldn't really be summed up as opposed to random transgalactic flancer objects to suicide pact. I can't really do that. Sorry, go for it.
00:05:04
Jen
ah but bit too serious wasn't it
00:05:07
Red D
Sorry Jenny, i just to interject here, i know I don't want to interrupt your your next step but something that we've never said on this podcast and I keep meaning to say is like we assume people will have recently watched the episode or have some knowledge on the episode because we don't really go into plot or that was a very good summary so I think someone could get scaped by with just that summary but it's not always like that so if you do listen
00:05:07
Jen
ah
00:05:11
El Platypo
Ranting.
00:05:31
El Platypo
Yeah, deliberately so. we don't We don't want people to find out about Star Trek from this. We might give them spoilers.

John de Lancie's Influence and Themes

00:05:37
Red D
Go find it on Netflix.
00:05:37
El Platypo
This is for the Illuminati.
00:05:38
Red D
Go find it on wherever. Yeah.
00:05:40
El Platypo
We'd ruin it for them if they watched our podcast.
00:05:44
Jen
Do you know what I assume, Red, is that if anyone does listen, it's possibly the kind of scenario that I find myself in when I'm listening to that Delta Flyer podcast where I i love the Star Trek word episodes so much that I've seen them so many times that I haven't watched it just before I listen to the podcast.
00:06:02
Red D
No, you don't have to have watched it just before.
00:06:03
Jen
But I remember stuff so well that I just, you know, I know it so well that I can basically remember, oh yes, I remember that episode.
00:06:04
Red D
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
00:06:11
Jen
I don't know what they're talking about.
00:06:12
Red D
Exactly. Assuming some familiarity, I guess is a better way of putting it with the episode.
00:06:13
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:06:18
Red D
Sorry. Back to you, Jenny.
00:06:19
Jen
oh well thank you um so we're on to one cool thing and i have something that is not not really not even mildly interesting but if there's no other cool things i'll say it what do you reckon red it was i i just i just said this is only interesting to me um but you know you have like
00:06:32
Red D
Throw it in there. Throw it in there. Yes.
00:06:41
Jen
um I think that the guy who plays Q is brilliant um and I always like to do a little bit of a wickedly Wikipedia page ah read about actresses that I like ah and I just found his background kind of interesting like ah there's all this stuff about his act
00:06:44
Red D
Yes.
00:06:45
El Platypo
Yes.
00:07:00
Jen
atheist activism. um And, you know, he he grew up in a religious school, I think it said.
00:07:02
Red D
Okay.
00:07:07
Jen
But then he sort of, I guess, rebelled against that and and feels quite strongly. There's some quotes in there about um how he feels about religion and and the negative side of it. um And I just thought that was really interesting, I guess, especially in the context of this episode, but they're talking about something which is like quite heavily think views centered around religion and, you know, certain
00:07:21
Red D
Yeah.
00:07:29
Jen
you know, Christian religions, it's considered a sin against God's wish and to commit suicide and all these kind of things. So I thought, wow, it must have been a really interesting episode for him to film when he has these sort of quite, you know, religious initial background, but then quite strong views.
00:07:41
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:07:47
Jen
um
00:07:47
Red D
Yeah that is so interesting. And do you remember his name of hand for our listeners?
00:07:53
Jen
Oh, gosh.
00:07:54
El Platypo
his is is what's going on john delancey but let's turn around now all a i this guy guy
00:07:55
Red D
Jamie, his the actor's name.
00:07:56
Jen
Oh, well done.
00:07:58
Red D
I was going to say John C. Delaney. ah For some reason, I moved the C out of Nancy.
00:08:06
Jen
so Oh, the other cool thing is that apparently he's very good friends with Katie Melbourne.
00:08:06
Red D
Oh,
00:08:11
Red D
um amazing.
00:08:12
Jen
That's nice.
00:08:14
Red D
And I'll throw in something random. He was in an episode of Motor She Wrote, which made me very happy.
00:08:18
Jen
oh
00:08:21
Red D
As an as a rich art thief,
00:08:21
El Platypo
ah me
00:08:25
El Platypo
Of course he is.
00:08:25
Red D
ah of course.
00:08:26
Jen
well
00:08:27
El Platypo
Although I do think that the whole being against organised religion comes through quite well in how he plays the character because he sort of uses it to puncture the pomposity of this sort of and show the ridiculousness of what would be an omnipotent on sort of being in the Star Trek canon. He makes this individual seem absolutely ridiculous and also terrifying, as well as, you know, good-hearted occasionally.
00:08:59
Red D
Yeah, well, it just seems like a good fit for the actor, which I guess you don't always get if you're an actor. So, yeah,

Philosophical Reactions and Legal Drama in Space

00:09:05
Red D
very interesting. Thank you, Jenny.
00:09:07
Jen
about initial reactions?
00:09:09
El Platypo
Oh, I mean, I just thought that that was an awful H.R. tribunal.
00:09:17
Red D
Well, go ahead, sorry.
00:09:17
Jen
This Well, I was just going to say that, well, that contradicts quite strongly with the notes I'm looking at that you made to Jamie.
00:09:24
Red D
Yes, that's what I thought.
00:09:25
Jen
I mean, you have three exclamation points, three in a row for this episode.
00:09:26
El Platypo
nay I actually said it was amazables. I loved keeping the imp of misrule. the harlequin of the tale, and perhaps that last syllable of the word harlequin is meaningful in this context.
00:09:40
Red D
Oh, very nice.
00:09:43
Jen
Intrigue. What about you, Red?
00:09:45
Red D
Yes. Well, I had two initial reactions. I mean, overall, when when I got into it, I think I similar to, well, it's like, it's law as a legal drama in space. So I was like, and I could see that like this type of topic being addressed in a law and order episode. So, which I also love. So I was very happy, but I also was like super busy today.
00:10:07
Red D
So when I sat down to watch it and realized, you know, as the openings, um, for the teaser was starting, I was like, Oh my gosh, there's so much to get through. And I know it like, doesn't make the episode take longer, but for some reason I was like, how am I going to get from like this, this through this whole massive storyline and just like 45 minutes.
00:10:21
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:10:24
Red D
I was like, there was a bit of a that because I knew what was coming and that as just an element of like TV is like how you can really like lose track of time and everything when you're in it. But if you kind of know what's coming, it can feel like quite a big,
00:10:36
Red D
um but I it's just because I was busy and I felt like a lot to go through because I knew it was coming but overall I mean I do love it.
00:10:39
Jen
Hmm.
00:10:45
Red D
It's so law and order and space so I was very happy.
00:10:48
Jen
Yes, I agree.
00:10:48
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:10:50
Jen
i I do love a good legal drama.
00:10:52
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:10:53
Jen
I like, i like you know, even the the books, you know, John Grisham and that kind of thing, so anything of of that ilk.
00:10:58
Red D
Oh yes.
00:10:59
El Platypo
just
00:11:00
Jen
And I especially love when they do it in Star Trek, because the thing is, if you try and watch like a courtroom thriller type film or something, quite a lot of them have a a bit of horror gore side to them as well, which I am not a fan of.
00:11:13
Jen
The ones in Star Trek are usually quite um centered on the actual sort of legal procedure, which is, I swear I'm not a lawyer or anything in that field, but I just, I think in another life I might've been, I've had it quite interesting.
00:11:19
Red D
What did she prefer?
00:11:23
Red D
You could have been.
00:11:26
Jen
um And I guess it's more like, it's not just the law, it's like the philosophical debate, which is fine and interesting listening think to you.
00:11:31
Red D
Yes.
00:11:34
Jen
So I loved it.
00:11:34
Red D
Good.
00:11:37
Jen
Now, who are we going to first? I reckon Kimmy stayed in the same order.
00:11:41
Red D
Yeah.
00:11:42
Jen
It's easier for my brain. Jamie,
00:11:47
El Platypo
Really, yours is first.
00:11:50
Jen
that you would first in the initial reactions.
00:11:52
El Platypo
Oh, you mean the the order in which we spoke? Oh, this is going to be confusing. Well, I mean, I knew that other folk found moments of casual sexism that spoke to their heart in the same way they spoke to mine, but I just felt that my favourite moment of casual gratuitous sexism was Q telling the captain, you're angry when you're beautiful.
00:12:14
Red D
Oh my god.
00:12:14
El Platypo
Which, I mean, is awful, an awful thing to say, but also hysterically funny, as a way of showing us that this is an absolute tool bag of an omnipotent being.
00:12:17
Red D
I'm sorry.
00:12:19
Red D
Yes.
00:12:25
Red D
Yes, I mean, I'm definitely going to add in a couple of my own thoughts here, if that's okay. But no,
00:12:30
Jen
Yep.
00:12:30
El Platypo
ah So you you agree it's okay to talk to people that way?
00:12:34
Red D
I mean, I first thought, one of my thoughts is why is someone so omnipotent and in the future still so sexist?
00:12:35
El Platypo
Ed thinks it's okay to talk to people that way.
00:12:40
El Platypo
ah
00:12:41
Red D
But ah Yes, that's that like line was hilarious. But then when he's in her bedroom, in her bed, and then he was like, and then she like obviously jumps out of bed and gets her robe, but um he was like, you know something about how he finds her so interesting because she commands so much authority, but she hasn't lost her femininity.
00:12:49
El Platypo
Oh, yeah.
00:13:02
Red D
I honestly thought she was going to slap him because I wasn't like punch him.
00:13:02
El Platypo
Yeah. wow Yeah.
00:13:08
Jen
who ah Yeah.
00:13:09
Red D
I mean, but maybe it's also I mean, it's his character, right?
00:13:14
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:13:14
Red D
But that always seemed to be a concern in the 90s. Like, if you're powerful, but you still have to be feminine. It's like, why? I mean, I'm sorry.
00:13:21
El Platypo
Yeah, i'm I'm powerful and I'm not masculine.
00:13:24
Red D
I mean, yeah, I mean, it's just like, lot i thought it's and her delivery of that line, I believe, was very good.
00:13:32
Jen
yeah
00:13:33
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:13:33
Jen
ah There was so much of that, wasn't there, throughout the whole episode. of just um he he He is hilarious. like but It was a comic delivery genius, I think, from The Cube.
00:13:43
Red D
yes
00:13:44
Jen
but I also just really liked Janeway's reaction, because it was just this seething rage, this quiet um anger, which you can really empathise with.
00:13:44
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:13:55
Jen
It's pretty annoying if that stuff happens in real life. Imagine if the person doing it was like literally
00:13:58
El Platypo
yeah
00:14:02
Jen
There was nothing you could ever do because they're this omnipotent being.
00:14:05
El Platypo
yeah
00:14:06
Jen
but Your hands are pretty much tired, aren't they?
00:14:07
Red D
That's a very good point.
00:14:08
Jen
That must be very frustrating.
00:14:09
El Platypo
yeah I mean, I have two things that I'd love to i'll just talk or like to come back to about that scene, which I'll come back to at the end of mine.
00:14:11
Red D
Yeah.
00:14:18
El Platypo
But yes, I very much enjoyed that scene and how it was played.
00:14:27
Jen
Red, over to you.
00:14:28
Red D
Yes well I just have one very random maybe I'll combine two of them quickly um but the actor who plays the first cue who becomes called Quinn I believe at the end uh he always reminds me of my uncle so I'm always like ah but um
00:14:32
El Platypo
Yay.
00:14:40
El Platypo
Aww.
00:14:42
Jen
Oh.
00:14:43
El Platypo
Is your uncle omnipotent too?
00:14:46
Red D
No, but he's kind of cheeky and fun. Well, he was when I was young.
00:14:49
El Platypo
Aww.
00:14:50
Red D
was it ah But um I did love Neelix's only kind of little scene in the show when his typical reaction to finding out ah the initial cue is like doing all these magic tricks and like got Janeway in the canteen and he's like kind of just clicked his fingers and there's like this amazing meal on one of the tables and it's rabbit.
00:14:50
El Platypo
Aww.
00:15:15
Red D
I was like, reaction is like, rabbit?
00:15:17
El Platypo
No, it's Welsh rabbit, which is not actually rabbit.
00:15:18
Red D
I'm sorry, Welsh rabbit. Oh yes, sorry. And he's like, rabbit? She never told me she liked rabbit. I'm just such a classic Nelix reaction. Like, there's all this like, unexplainable stuff going on and people appearing and disappearing at will.
00:15:27
El Platypo
and
00:15:31
Red D
And he's just like, she never told me she liked rabbit.
00:15:34
El Platypo
But I love his le next line even more though.
00:15:34
Red D
Like, what is rabbit? Yeah.
00:15:37
El Platypo
It's what is rabbit after like, I should have known she liked rabbit.
00:15:38
Red D
Yeah.
00:15:39
Jen
well
00:15:40
Red D
I don't know.
00:15:41
El Platypo
What is it?
00:15:42
Jen
And I liked his next line even more than that, his concern. Is she interviewing for another chef? yeah
00:15:50
Red D
So I just enjoyed that little moment.
00:15:52
Jen
He did pretty well considering he only had that one scene to make.
00:15:54
El Platypo
I mean, one on on that, though, like, I mean, if we can go to the sort of outcome of briefly of the trial, I think of all the things that Quinn could have done on the ship to experience life in this mortal coil, taking taking a line, taking a trick out of Guinan's book of actually being behind the bar or in the canteen would have been no bad way for him to do it.
00:16:20
Red D
ah Yeah, I guess we'll discuss that a bit more, but there's always food.
00:16:26
El Platypo
or drink a sexist cue sexist cue sexist cue sexist cue
00:16:27
Red D
Food or drink, yeah.
00:16:29
Jen
I'm gonna go to it from my point ah back a little bit just briefly just briefly guys to the whole um sexist cue kind of kind of theme um because yeah I mean I I assume the reason Red he is uh you know this futuristic um ah being in the future is still sexist, is in fact more to do with his character of of wanting to be annoying to everyone.
00:16:56
El Platypo
Yes, yes.
00:16:56
Jen
And the he's like, what's the most going to be the most annoying thing to a female captain?
00:17:00
Red D
Yes.
00:17:02
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:17:02
Jen
ah Maybe but that is. That's how I like to think of him.
00:17:06
Red D
No, that is a really good point because it's not like he treats anyone in a not annoying way.
00:17:07
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:17:11
Jen
Yeah, like you you make, I can't remember what I'm in next generation. he The way he annoys Riker is quite different if I remember correctly like insulting his um like beard and his manliness and things and Riker character is quite like I think sees himself as quite a masculine figure yeah so he knows how to get him and then he's just trying to rub everyone up the wrong way I guess but I gotta say like I just i I think he does it so well like it is perfectly infuriating so I think he does it brilliantly and also hilarious and my favorite one of them
00:17:25
El Platypo
ah sh Manly man.
00:17:48
Jen
and Well, aside from the fact that he calls a Madden captain and she sternly tells him never to do it again and then he just continues doing it all the way through.
00:17:56
Red D
Right till the end.
00:17:58
Jen
He's also the one where he's like, now we find out whether the pants and then he raises his eyebrow and sort of looks her up and down really fit.
00:18:09
El Platypo
and he mostly looks head down i mean his his delivery of that of so many lines was just
00:18:10
Jen
yeah Yeah, it's just, you can imagine it her being her in that situation. I'm just like, oh my goodness, rage.
00:18:25
El Platypo
exquisite both meaningful and comic all at the same time and people are coming no riddle started yeah funny beautiful charismatic
00:18:28
Red D
i but i'm sure i sorry too I mean, in- I'm sure I had a crush on him when I was like 13. Because ah when I watched this when I was- I mean, not like a serious crush, but like just like a- Because- Because he was just like, um, funny, I'm guessing.
00:18:34
Jen
Oh wow. Red, red.
00:18:47
Jen
I completely understand. i I have an embarrassing crush, also completely based on how funny they are. um And...
00:18:55
Red D
Jamie? No.
00:18:58
El Platypo
I mean, I love that, but ouch, you're a bad friend.
00:18:58
Jen
No.
00:19:02
Jen
No, I'm afraid...
00:19:02
Red D
I am saying that you're funny though. Sorry.
00:19:04
El Platypo
Yeah, I know.
00:19:04
Red D
jeny Very much.
00:19:04
Jen
Yeah, it's kind of a failed compliment.
00:19:05
El Platypo
You take with one hand, and you give half as much back with the other.
00:19:08
Jen
i'm
00:19:12
Jen
Now, just to be clear, this is not like, you know, I want to take him to bed or anything, but I
00:19:15
Red D
Oh, I think I know who you're going to say. Please continue.
00:19:17
Jen
as as, you know, a little bit in his lap.
00:19:20
Red D
Oh, no, no.
00:19:20
El Platypo
the
00:19:21
Red D
what Okay. Yes. But ah yeah, Yeah.
00:19:22
El Platypo
Oh my dang.
00:19:24
Jen
It's just because he's so hilarious and intelligent and you know, he has comes across something quite a struggle on the old side as well.
00:19:28
El Platypo
So would she would you rather be 20% funnier or 5% better looking?
00:19:37
Red D
20% funnier.
00:19:39
Jen
Definitely. Yeah.
00:19:41
Red D
And I saw the picture of Ian Hislop and his younger days recently. Why was that coming up? I don't know where I was sort.
00:19:41
El Platypo
Interesting.
00:19:47
El Platypo
It's bank bank.
00:19:49
Red D
Oh my gosh.
00:19:51
Jen
ah No, I don't think he was ever a, ah you know, model type. um
00:19:56
Red D
No, no, but it was just for, I mean, he kind of looked the same, just younger.
00:19:56
Jen
that's a
00:19:59
Red D
I don't know, I can't explain.
00:19:59
Jen
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's definitely to do with this sort of personality, at least the one he portrays. I mean, you never know what people like in real life, do you?
00:20:08
Red D
I mean, I haven't seen, um, like, is it time I got used to everything, like, in a while, but he also got, like, that kind of cheeky demeanor, I think.
00:20:11
Jen
Yeah.
00:20:14
Red D
Um, I mean, you have to, to do that kind of role.
00:20:16
Jen
and
00:20:19
Jen
Jamie, you I think you didn't answer your own question. Would you be 20% funnier or 5% better-looking?
00:20:24
Red D
Oh, yeah.
00:20:25
El Platypo
I was just trying to show that I wasn't shallow by not engaging with it.
00:20:29
Jen
But you seem quite surprised when Red and I were like, definitely the funnier.
00:20:33
El Platypo
I mean, I don't think it would be possible to be funny at all.
00:20:39
Jen
OK.
00:20:39
Red D
ah
00:20:41
Jen
Well done.
00:20:43
El Platypo
Most people seem to have trouble not thinking of music clown as things are.
00:20:43
Jen
I'd answer.
00:20:48
Red D
oh
00:20:49
El Platypo
So maybe that wouldn't particularly be helpful. Some friends mine um friends of mine on this call made some unkind comments about me and being an outlier of an extreme earlier.
00:20:51
Red D
Who thinks of you as a clown? Why am I saying?
00:20:56
Red D
That said you were funny.
00:20:59
El Platypo
So, you know, close people. You know, they were like, you can't take you seriously because you, you know, go for humor and clown. And so I i think I'd have to go for the looks because I want to be taken seriously.
00:21:11
Jen
Well, Jamie.
00:21:11
Red D
Oh, but Jamie, I think if you get 5% more attractive, then you'll go into, like, the Bumbo category.
00:21:17
El Platypo
I'm already a bimbo.
00:21:19
Red D
ah Okay, sorry, that i didn't mean to insult you again.
00:21:24
El Platypo
ah just keep coming up with the burns my goodness but may maybe maybe he says as though this has all been orchestrated and it's now his point round that can lead on to one of my points which is I would like to comment on the fact that not in terms of good or bad looks but just in terms of
00:21:26
Jen
Jamie.
00:21:27
Red D
The accidental burns.
00:21:46
El Platypo
What an incredible face to express the character Q has, because to me, I mean, the face and the way that he's made up in this look like the essence of the dilettante noble rake, like this figure that's had the nobility sort of drained from its face by life of excess, but still has that broken remnant in there, but also just completely jaded with life at the same time.
00:22:01
Red D
Oh, yes, 100%.
00:22:13
El Platypo
It's a wonderful, wonderful sort of counter to those moments where he's trying to play as though he you know has the straight bat and is the representative of the cue and believes in their vision of what they are as a species and cue values when he goes has lines like, I'm a born-again cue and things like that. And the face just sort of gives a little bit, just enough of a light, what he's saying to make him a plausible intermediary. And I love it. I think whether a lot of it was to do with the makeup as well, how he was made up and, but I mean, just the most expressed and expressive face for this, ah this role. Yeah.
00:22:58
Red D
like Agree.
00:22:59
Jen
I agree as well.
00:22:59
Red D
I'd like to... Yeah, ah what did you think about the makeup?
00:23:02
El Platypo
Although his lips are like weird blue black, which is weird.
00:23:03
Red D
Yeah, they were, hey.
00:23:05
Jen
Yeah, I, I, when I saw that, I thought, oh, well, I suppose that's in keeping, when I thought, I suppose that's in keeping with that first appearance in next gen, because you did have this eyeliner and sort of blue lips.
00:23:09
El Platypo
Is he it an extra from Dune?
00:23:16
Red D
Mm.
00:23:18
Jen
And actually, they've just toned it down a bit, because I think in next gen, it was bright blue.
00:23:19
Red D
Ah.
00:23:21
Jen
But then and then I was like, well, is this it? presumably it's a cue thing so I actively sort of looked for on the other cue on Quinn and he does have the slightly blue lips and the dark eye circles as well so I guess it's a cue thing.
00:23:32
Red D
Okay.
00:23:34
Jen
It's a really interesting makeup choice like I wonder why they chose that for the omnipotent being to have the dark eyes and the blue lips.
00:23:41
Red D
Well, eyeliner makes men look sexy, so I don't know if that's the wrong reason.
00:23:46
El Platypo
some of us manage it with not just what's on our face but apparently what's in our mouths with humor red with humor
00:23:53
Red D
But with humor, yes, well saved. But I mean, I guess like what you alluded to, it well, what you mentioned, Jenny, is like maybe in the I don't know when Next Generation came up, they went for quite a bold look for this thing, and then they had to find a way to maintain that kind of link, but for a more, at that time, modern audience.
00:24:08
Jen
Yeah, but tone. Yeah, just tone it down a bit. Yeah.
00:24:13
Red D
It's quite subtle, but it works for some reason.
00:24:16
Jen
Yeah, I do think that a lot of it is, as James said, like the, he's great at the facial expressions as well. Like, I think, you know, It's not all the makeup.
00:24:25
Red D
Oh yes.
00:24:27
Jen
um But Red, I would imagine so.
00:24:28
Red D
He must be like a fan favorite. I mean, I would maybe, I don't know if, yeah, he's so good.
00:24:34
Jen
I mean, especially as he, I mean, his character kept coming back, didn't it? Not just in next gen, but then through.
00:24:38
Red D
Yes.
00:24:40
Jen
and
00:24:40
Red D
Oh yes. There's a lot more to come.
00:24:45
Jen
Miss Red, over to you.
00:24:47
Red D
Okay.
00:24:48
El Platypo
Go, go, go.
00:24:50
Red D
Okay. Well, I guess at this point I had a question more than a, in a, ah and favorite But when we find out that Quinn, well, I think he's been locked up, locked up for 300 years.
00:25:02
Red D
Nevermind how ever long he's been alive for.
00:25:02
El Platypo
o
00:25:04
Red D
But I was like, would you like to be alive for 300 years or not?
00:25:10
El Platypo
Which 300 years and what age am I for the entire time?
00:25:13
Red D
Well, I think for the quick, like in keeping with the Star Trek, you would maintain like a middle age, let's say for the 300 years.
00:25:22
El Platypo
I don't know how I feel about middle age.
00:25:25
Red D
You are middle aged apparently. I mean, I know, wait, maybe you're not, but everyone keeps going, are you living until you're 75? So middle age is 31 or whatever.
00:25:31
El Platypo
I've got one on my right hand here, red, for you, and the other one here for what you just said.
00:25:34
Red D
I say middle age. I say middle age is 50 because we live to a hundred at least. That's my philosophy.
00:25:42
El Platypo
Yeah, I've seen my previous comment.
00:25:42
Jen
Are we, ah but so are we omnipotent in this scenario? Or are we just human?
00:25:48
Red D
No, this was just living for 300 years.
00:25:48
El Platypo
It gets a bit boring after, you know, 90 or so.
00:25:53
Jen
I feel like there has to be a lot of context questions, like are you, yeah, but what or if you um are living with like some really painful disease all that time?
00:25:58
Red D
Guys, I would live for 300 years, for sure. Not longer, I think, but 300 years, I'd be happy for.
00:26:06
Red D
Well, Janie, obviously that is not an element of this question, I would say.
00:26:09
Jen
Okay, okay, so we're healthy.
00:26:09
El Platypo
Well, this is why we need context.
00:26:10
Red D
You're not omnipotent, but you're in full health.
00:26:11
El Platypo
We need context.
00:26:13
Red D
You like reach 45 and you stay there for 300 years.
00:26:13
Jen
Okay.
00:26:16
El Platypo
here's Here's a philosophical question. Would you wanna live for 300 years, but what age you are is set and you don't actually get to know it before you are that age?
00:26:23
Red D
I just said 45.
00:26:28
El Platypo
And yeah, and you know nothing else about the circumstances, the period of history, everything like that.
00:26:31
Jen
company
00:26:32
Red D
No, let me guess, keep it simple. Like once you hit 45, your body doesn't age until you hit like 290 and then you get older and then you die.
00:26:40
El Platypo
yeah but you don't you and actually no no no but you don't know what age you're going to be number one so i'm changing the question haha i know and i'm making it more interesting
00:26:41
Jen
Yes, I mean,
00:26:47
Red D
That's my question.
00:26:47
Jen
like
00:26:48
Red D
So I rebuke you that.
00:26:48
Jen
yeah You've got to answer Red's question and then, you know.
00:26:53
Red D
I would live for 300 years. I think longer would be too much, but 300 years would be like a pretty interesting span of time for the amount of change that would happen.
00:27:01
Jen
Yeah, I mean, presumably it would, I mean, all the movies and all the TV shows suggest that really no one wants to live river.
00:27:07
El Platypo
this
00:27:10
Jen
But to me, it sounds pretty cool to have 300 years at 45.
00:27:12
Red D
Yes, not forever.
00:27:12
Jen
I mean, I do like 10 different degrees. I could do a degree in fine arts and astrophysics.
00:27:17
Red D
You could be the lawyer now.
00:27:19
Jen
I could be a lawyer for a bit. I could be, um you know, I could just do a lot of creative things. Maybe try and write some piano songs or I mean, yeah, it sounds great to me, but I mean.
00:27:27
El Platypo
yeah
00:27:30
Red D
Okay.
00:27:31
El Platypo
But then you then you watch all the people you know and like, sort of...
00:27:33
Red D
No, I think so 300.
00:27:36
El Platypo
Oh, are they?
00:27:37
Jen
Oh, well, that's great. That's even better.
00:27:39
Red D
Yeah.
00:27:42
El Platypo
So now I feel about other people getting to get 300 when I...
00:27:44
Red D
Okay.
00:27:46
Jen
So Jamie, what about you?
00:27:46
Red D
Let's... Yeah.
00:27:49
Jen
but Yes, I would flip the 300 order.
00:27:54
El Platypo
No.
00:27:57
Jen
Why?
00:28:02
Red D
Yeah, why?
00:28:03
El Platypo
Oh, sorry, I didn't... I thought you were saying, oh, not why.
00:28:06
Jen
Oh.
00:28:06
El Platypo
um
00:28:10
El Platypo
I mean, you lose loads of friends. um You can get stuck in an awfully bad loss of situations, aging to 300, like, you know, medical experiments for folks who want to find out what you actually have in you that makes you live up to 300.
00:28:30
Jen
just Just think how good you'd be at sculling.
00:28:30
El Platypo
I just think it might get a bit onnui filled.
00:28:36
Red D
What did you say, Jenny?
00:28:37
Jen
I said, just think how good you'd be at sculling, Jamie. 300 years practice.
00:28:40
Red D
Oh, yeah.
00:28:42
El Platypo
Well, this is a thing. I think it would leech the joy out of those things, actually.
00:28:46
Jen
Well, I mean, I guess what that's what this episode is, the character in this episode is saying.
00:28:49
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:28:51
Jen
So, I mean, you don't know, it might. you might
00:28:53
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:28:56
Red D
I think I am. I'm with Jenny. You're right. It's time to like learn so many different things.
00:28:59
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:29:02
Jen
Yeah that's the thing I think, I mean I guess if you're just doing the same thing, I mean that's a form of torture isn't it, having to repeat the same thing over and over again and um you know you hear these war stories about people having to like dig dig graves and then fill them in and then dig them again repeatedly but never ending and and so you know but I guess it's what you do with the time though isn't it because if you're like
00:29:08
El Platypo
Hmm, exactly, yeah.
00:29:14
El Platypo
This is why Rose and such tortured souls.
00:29:21
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:29:27
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:29:27
Jen
learning all these different things. I mean there's a never-ending supply of books to read, even if that's all you do, you you just read.
00:29:31
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:29:33
Jen
um But there's been other things you can do and try.
00:29:34
Red D
And I just realized maybe 300 years would be enough time to get my life on track.
00:29:37
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:29:41
Jen
Just about enough, yeah. And if you had kids you could watch, it you could see your grandkids grow up and even maybe your great great grandkids.
00:29:42
El Platypo
yeah
00:29:43
Red D
Your great grandkids.
00:29:50
El Platypo
You could master arts hitherto unknown.
00:29:53
Red D
Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to turn into one of those irritating people. They're trying to fight mortality and be young forever, but if we had a choice.
00:30:01
El Platypo
Yeah, those people who want to be in cryotubes at, you know, age 40.
00:30:04
Red D
ah
00:30:04
Jen
ah Oh go my god.
00:30:06
Red D
But yeah, so that was my point slash question.
00:30:10
El Platypo
Interesting.
00:30:11
Jen
Okay.
00:30:12
Jen
Well, what do I have on my list here? Let me see.
00:30:12
El Platypo
to
00:30:18
Jen
Just on the more serious side, obviously there was this like big question in this episode around suicide ah and a lot of the arguments for and against.
00:30:26
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:30:30
Jen
I have heard before. But there was one I actually hadn't really considered, so I was like, oh, that's an interesting one. and I think it was when Quinn, well, I think it was Quinn who mentioned it, I'm not sure, but they were talking about in scenarios where suicide is illegal, talking about that situation being that the individual has rights, but only so long as they don't conflict with the state.
00:30:57
Red D
Mm.
00:30:57
Jen
ah which is we know which obviously doesn't sound right because you know the point of human rights is that the human rights, you can't just take them away just because they don't suit your government of the day.
00:31:10
Jen
And I thought that was quite a good argument. not Not that I'm saying for or against, but it was just one of the arguments on one of the sides which I hadn't really considered before.
00:31:17
El Platypo
ah it It was actually the argument that was the very first politics lecture I ever had on exactly that and based around
00:31:18
Jen
Interesting.
00:31:23
Jen
Oh!
00:31:25
El Platypo
An essay by Isaiah Berlin called on positive and negative liberty, basically around that freedom to and that freedom from. um And actually that conflict is never fully reconciled.
00:31:43
Red D
Yeah, it did sound like a very, it was very eloquently put, I guess, in that in the argument at that I mean, in the Star Trek episode, not in that philosophical paper that you just cited.
00:31:48
El Platypo
Yes. Yeah.
00:31:54
El Platypo
I mean, it is very eloquently put by us over Lynn as well, but yeah.
00:31:55
Red D
so but Yeah.
00:31:59
El Platypo
for
00:31:59
Jen
i I do often, I got the impression watching this episode and lots of other like philosophical Star Trek and episodes that are similar to this. that kind of things they're portraying are probably if anyone like listening to us has done any kind of even basic um you know A level which is the equivalent of the exams you do um that's sort of 18 19 but really like basic um education in like philosophy and ethics these are probably like you know philosophy 101 entry level kind of things um but uh interesting to me i didn't really study any kind of ethics or philosophy so
00:32:27
El Platypo
entry level.
00:32:30
Red D
Yeah, but they...
00:32:32
Red D
What's that?
00:32:32
El Platypo
Agreed.
00:32:34
El Platypo
I find them interesting.
00:32:35
Red D
Yeah, but also, I mean, it's like they, I mean, we don't have, yeah, we don't have to like go into and like the politics side of things, but they they, I mean, that's the point is that they're addressing um issues that are being raised at the time, but on Star Trek and reflecting them back, I guess, or debating them in a way that's kind of less emotive because it's not here on earth.
00:32:38
El Platypo
They popularise philosophy.
00:32:45
El Platypo
Don't we?
00:32:58
Jen
Oh.
00:32:58
Red D
um And
00:32:59
El Platypo
By definition.
00:33:00
Red D
Um, but yeah, and I don't think, I mean, I think there's smart people writing these episodes or people that have thought a lot about some things or do the research. And actually that reminds me is that very sadly, Jerry Taylor passed away.
00:33:14
Red D
I think the last, since the last time we recorded and she was like one of the executive producers and writers of Voyager and wrote lots of the episodes and informed a lot of, um, captain Janeway.
00:33:17
El Platypo
o What? Wait, Jerry Taylor?
00:33:26
Red D
Yeah. You'll see her name on the screen all the time. Um, But yeah, she passed away in the last few weeks.
00:33:31
El Platypo
Oh, sorry. Yeah, oh, that's really sad.
00:33:35
Jen
yeah
00:33:38
Red D
I meant to mention that, but it wasn't really a one cool thing, but it was a notable thing.
00:33:41
Jen
No, no.
00:33:42
El Platypo
I mean, I actually thought when you started with Jerry, you were going to give it Jerry Ryan.
00:33:46
Red D
No, no, she's still alive and sexy, don't worry.
00:33:51
El Platypo
Excuse me. Some of us are not shallow in that way.
00:33:56
Jen
I think Red was directing that at me because I think she's hot as hell.
00:34:01
El Platypo
oh wow
00:34:01
Red D
I mean, she is, maybe I was directing it myself, I don't know. But yes, yeah.
00:34:09
Jen
I've lost all train of thought, redfish.
00:34:09
Red D
um Sorry, sorry, back to the core issue.
00:34:10
Jen
Just put Jerry Ryan into my mind.
00:34:11
El Platypo
yeah cant to back to
00:34:15
Jen
And I can't even remember what I was talking about. ah No, I think that was my second niche point. So I think possibly back to you, Jay.
00:34:24
El Platypo
i mean me almost Paralleling your point around the individual versus state rights, or those fireworks I can hear, I just found the differing ways to rebel fascinating between Q's angry capriciousness and Q who becomes Quinn's simple nonconformance, and they're both so different in their attitude and how they perform their rebellion that it becomes quite a revelation
00:34:37
Red D
right um
00:35:00
El Platypo
over the course of the episode that Quinn was actually inspired by Q given the differing flavour of their behaviours.
00:35:03
Red D
Oh, sorry, Ami.
00:35:12
El Platypo
Q messing with the destinies of races and Riker and Picard and the Borg for fun and Quinn simply deciding that he didn't want to be part of society in a far more simple and understated way, but one which threatens to disrupt Q's society and the Q continuum, on a level in which Q, at the height of his capriciousness, would have died to emulate. So I found ah found that a really interesting parallel and almost send up. I don't know how you reacted to it.
00:35:55
Jen
Yeah, I mean, I agree. I thought that was a nice touch where, you know, the Quinn revealed to the queue that um he was kind of an inspiration to him, that he was doing things which were against the rules of the queue and doing things differently because he felt like the queue was stuck in a rut and needed change.
00:36:22
Jen
And then of course it was Q who gave him the Hemlock command.
00:36:25
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:36:26
El Platypo
and a slightly suspicious voice of Tuvok asking whether the doctor kept that sort of hempok round. Only added to the mystery, 4Q appeared, grinning his twinkly little twinkle.
00:36:42
Red D
But yes, I definitely agree. Definitely added some more depth, I guess, to that dynamic and conflict and relationship between the two cues.
00:36:47
El Platypo
Mmm.
00:36:52
Jen
Over to you Red.
00:36:54
Red D
Well, now I wonder if I should skip a couple of questions or stick to maybe two moments that I really enjoyed. I'll just combine them.
00:37:04
El Platypo
Yeah, give us the ones that flow, flow with it Red, flow with it.
00:37:07
Red D
No, I'm going to stick to my orders. Sorry, Jamie. I did love it, Wayna.
00:37:11
El Platypo
Well, I'm going to emulate you and say that you are more boring than a fart in a tailor shop.
00:37:12
Jen
but
00:37:19
Jen
I did not hear that line.
00:37:19
Red D
Well, I was...
00:37:21
El Platypo
Eh?
00:37:22
Jen
Nothing. Go to it.
00:37:23
Red D
Uh, no, I just to, yeah, he probably would say that to me.
00:37:24
El Platypo
And I bet you wouldn't have had the chance.
00:37:28
Red D
Um, I did love the moment where Quinn tries to commit suicide and all the men on, um, where did you disappear? And Blahn is like, all the men have disappeared.
00:37:39
Red D
Um, and it was just kind of funny because it leads to a bit more, I guess.
00:37:43
El Platypo
Her panic in her voice.
00:37:45
Red D
Well, a bit more like when Q, second Q comes on board, the men haven't been restored. So he's like, thinks this is like a female only ship, but also when the men are returned, I did love Two Box reaction. It was pretty, the most genuine of reactions of like, just the acting, I guess, was really good.
00:37:59
El Platypo
ah was he Did he just sort of raise an eyebrow and continue with what he did?
00:38:01
Red D
No, he actually looked quite ah perturbed, which is unusual for him. So, and then I did love it when First Cute was trying to hide Voyager from Second Cute, and they went through that series of ever more ridiculous hiding places.
00:38:15
Red D
So they go back to the Big Bang, I guess. um And then they, um I just wrote, honey, I shrunk the ship because they become smaller than protons, which are attacking them.
00:38:27
Red D
And finally, they have a Christmas decoration on a Christmas tree, which I just thought was hilarious.
00:38:31
El Platypo
I know, so cute.
00:38:34
Red D
And they can see, um but they busted by Q2, who finds them on the tree, I guess.
00:38:38
El Platypo
Oh, cute little deer.
00:38:41
Red D
The QE2. Yes, I just, I, It was good comedy for me in those moments.
00:38:48
Jen
Yeah.
00:38:48
El Platypo
As a fiction, I mean, just prompted by your talk with the dancing across time and space, how do we feel Q would fare against Doctor Who?
00:38:58
Red D
I'm lucky I can't say anything about this because I've never watched Octave.
00:39:02
Jen
Well, I mean, to me, um it would be an obvious cue, because they're an omnipotent being. I mean, is Doctor Who omnipotent?
00:39:10
El Platypo
Well, remember, Quinn says, never think we're omnipotent.
00:39:10
Jen
I don't think they are.
00:39:17
Red D
That's a
00:39:17
Jen
It does say something like that, doesn't it? But then in other episodes, I think they say they do they are an omnipotent.
00:39:20
El Platypo
hopefully inconvenient.
00:39:22
Jen
I mean mean, it is a just, what do they call it? A discontinuity.
00:39:26
El Platypo
Disingenuous?
00:39:27
Jen
Now you know in shows where they, there's a, continuity error or something. I feel like they do say they're omnipotent in extent, but maybe I'm imagining it. But you're right.
00:39:38
Jen
No, I remember that cue says something along lines of um they they're omnipotent as humans understand it, but not, I don't know.
00:39:49
Jen
I can't remember.
00:39:49
Red D
He does say something about like how maybe they just have like better technology or something or compares their omnipotence to like.
00:39:49
Jen
Anyway.
00:39:55
El Platypo
Yeah, do we ever find out where the Q's power comes from?
00:39:59
Red D
Well, that was like one of my next questions, so I might say that, but and I'm like, what is the cue and what is the continuum?
00:40:02
El Platypo
Ah.
00:40:06
El Platypo
What is a continuum?
00:40:08
Red D
Yeah, what is the continuum and what are cues?
00:40:11
Jen
Yeah, I mean, I did have that down. I'll do only my next point, Red, because that is relevant. I thought the depiction of the continuum was quite good, because it from the sort of gist that you get from what the continuum is from other episodes from Next Gen, it would be incredibly hard to depict.
00:40:20
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:40:36
Jen
And they've said before, I think, that humans wouldn't be able to come to the continuum as such um because it's not in the, I don't know, realm of understanding or it's not they're not capable of it.
00:40:50
El Platypo
Realm of perception. Yeah.
00:40:52
Jen
Yeah, so I quite liked the way they chose to symbolise it with the road and the...
00:40:57
El Platypo
that goes to the universe and then back again, but not to anything else.
00:41:00
Jen
Yeah, and then, you know, when when they first show you it, you think, well, this is a crap depiction, it's just a road and a house with some people in it, but then when
00:41:05
El Platypo
a
00:41:08
Jen
the Quinn guy starts to explain it.
00:41:10
El Platypo
yeah
00:41:11
Jen
And then you sort of see the looks on the characters' faces.
00:41:15
El Platypo
yeah
00:41:15
Jen
um I think they did a good job with a very difficult task.
00:41:19
El Platypo
but i I absolutely love the interaction between the two actors as they're debating on whether they show the crew of Voyager the continuum in the terms that we ultimately end up seeing it.
00:41:35
Red D
Yeah, because I guess they're implying that humans, they had to figure out a way for humans to be able to comprehend it.
00:41:41
El Platypo
and To experience.
00:41:42
Red D
And I think this was, this was a good episode to kind of like rewatch, because I'm sure when I was 13, I was like, what is this dusty town I don't understand?
00:41:50
Jen
this is the
00:41:51
Red D
But I agree, Jenny. It was like, thus as an owl, you're like, that seems like a nightmare.
00:41:57
Jen
yeah Yeah, because that's the thing at that point. They're trying to, I think by that point, Janeway said, what I'm trying to decide here is not whether suicide should be allowed, but whether to grant you asylum.
00:42:07
Jen
And ah she's she said something earlier about, are we going to take like, I don't know, the Bolian principle of um we can only grant you asylum if we can prove that you're suffering. So then it becomes all about
00:42:16
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:42:18
Jen
the nature of suffering and is he suffering.
00:42:20
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:42:20
Jen
He's not suffering from a disease or from pain so but yeah is he suffering from I think he says unendurable existence and you sort of I feel like you do get kind of sense of it from that
00:42:23
El Platypo
Buying closure.
00:42:31
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:42:37
El Platypo
I do love the circularity of the argument that Q brings to the question of whether he's insane, saying he wants to kill himself. Clearly he must be insane. No sane person would want to kill himself.
00:42:51
Jen
Yeah but i like I like the evidence that the rebuttal that that can't be the only thing because that in itself and in and of itself I think she says is not evidence of insanity.
00:42:56
El Platypo
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:04
Jen
Anyway over to you Jay.
00:43:07
El Platypo
Oh gosh. So I actually so think that one of my favourite things throughout the entire episode is maybe maybe I said the Vulcans or maybe just two Vulcans. Absolute refusal to be ruffled by Q's prancing in and out.
00:43:24
El Platypo
Any time a cue appears, all the 2-Voc does is just raise a quizzical eyebrow and continue with what he's doing. So when Quinn magically appears like BAM in his courses through a locked door to ask him to represent him, he just raises an eyebrow and responds, I am curious. Do all cues lack manners?
00:43:46
El Platypo
or if they simply out-evolved them, words to that effect, as not necessarily ah an insult, but a genuine question, um it strikes me as an immensely elegant challenge, but also one that must resonate with the viewer as they consider the situation Q finds himself in of having existed so long, he's almost had the need for these niceties burnt out of him by time's passage.
00:43:50
Jen
Bye.
00:44:17
Red D
Yeah, I mean, I also had to note that down because ah kind of tying back to what we said about the Q2, his ah blatant sexism and trying to annoy people, ah regardless of sex, actually, sorry about the fireworks.
00:44:32
Red D
um but ah ah okay But I,
00:44:33
El Platypo
ah hear none I I had for the word sex.
00:44:38
Red D
too much actually asked a question that I was thinking in my head, basically up at until that point was like, they just have, they have, Why are they so annoying basically? Or why is Q so annoying?
00:44:48
Red D
And is it because you've been alive for so long, you just are so superior to everyone else. You don't have time for those niceties. What what is happening there? That's always maybe here normally.
00:44:58
El Platypo
listen
00:44:59
Red D
I don't know, but yeah you're right. It resonated because I mean, I was wondering that exact same thing, not as eloquently as Tupac, but yeah.
00:45:11
Jen
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because i when i was I was thinking along the same lines and in relation to sort of Q's, annoying, comedic sexism, I was a little bit like, and obviously he's just saying slightly sexist, annoying comments and ah it's kind of funny.
00:45:15
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:45:28
Jen
But he's obviously, there's also seems to be a, what's the word, like a limit on it as well. So they they've evolved to be sort of mildly annoying and and they've got no politeness but they haven't that they haven't they don't take it so far as for him to be like you know sexually harassing Jamie but like in you know all abusing her or you know I mean like it's it's a weird
00:45:51
Red D
Maybe it's, yeah, maybe it's just a bit to do with like the aging process. Cause you know, like when I was 18, I don't know, I was like socialism, communism, great. These sound like great systems.
00:46:01
Red D
and Now I'm like, that's ridiculous Natalie. I don't know. I would just dismiss that. out of I mean, not, you know, I'm just like broadly giving an example, but, um, maybe they just stopped taking things seriously.
00:46:15
Red D
I don't know. So seriously.
00:46:16
Jen
That's funny because I go the other way. I was really, I was quite right wing when I was younger. but I'm more of a so social Democrat these days now.
00:46:26
Red D
Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying that, umm well, yeah, maybe socialism is in the right way, but communism, for sure. But I
00:46:33
Jen
I guess we shouldn't say that on this should be because we're my alienates and people and especially
00:46:37
Red D
don't think it was a huge communist population.
00:46:38
El Platypo
Good. I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.
00:46:43
Jen
but
00:46:43
Red D
Yeah, I'm just saying, like, but for different people, it'll be different things. for Like, for me, it might have been like, oh, yeah, I probably need to get around to that, blah, blah, blah. No, I'm like, oh, that would never work. I'm not gonna spend time worrying about it.
00:46:55
Red D
um
00:46:55
Jen
They've become more brusque as they've aged ah hundreds of thousands of years.
00:46:57
Red D
Yes, yes, yes.
00:46:58
El Platypo
yeah
00:46:58
Red D
Or you're just like, okay, yes, you're going to have to go without a face-up, but when you get a job and start wanting things, you're going to land up just like me, don't worry.
00:47:05
Jen
but
00:47:08
Jen
and Okay. Who, I didn't, was that, I've forgotten, who did the last point?
00:47:13
Red D
That was Jane's point, I think.
00:47:14
El Platypo
That was mine. We started with Q's prancing into Vulcans and we ended up with, I don't know, an attempt to evade politics.
00:47:15
Jen
Okay.
00:47:20
Jen
Politics, oh no.
00:47:21
Red D
Natalie denouncing communism. ah
00:47:23
El Platypo
No one say the B word.
00:47:23
Jen
but
00:47:25
El Platypo
Everything's gone to shit, but no one say it.
00:47:29
Jen
Go
00:47:29
Red D
Well, I am ready with my next point, if that helps.
00:47:32
El Platypo
I want to be trolled by trolls.
00:47:32
Jen
for it.
00:47:34
Red D
Well, you're about to be trolled hard, sorry Jamie, but I would like to nominate the most Jamie moments of the episode when Q is in the hearing and he wants to call a witness to the stand and he says, I call myself to the stand.
00:47:37
El Platypo
o
00:47:50
Red D
And the way he did it reminded me so much of you, Jamie.
00:47:50
Jen
and
00:47:53
El Platypo
I would like to gather that most daily moment comes shortly after.
00:47:55
Red D
and Wait, before you get
00:47:59
Red D
I just, before you get upset with me, I've always got the impression that you really like this character, so I think that's what planted this seed in my head, maybe if I didn't already think that.
00:48:06
El Platypo
Right, I've never been as offended in my entire life as when you said the last few minutes of compensation, so I can't imagine how you think you're getting out of jail on the basis of that. No, I think the most Jamie moment actually comes when he says, it's a rare pleasure to entertain a guest of such refinement and knowledge on a topic.
00:48:14
Red D
That's just true. who
00:48:25
El Platypo
I yield the floor to myself. I actually prefer that as an expression of Jamie.
00:48:30
Red D
No, there was something about the way his actions as well when he said, I'll call myself to the stand or something that bray reminded me of me.
00:48:33
El Platypo
Yes.
00:48:36
El Platypo
turn
00:48:39
Jen
There's definitely something about the delivery of that, I agree, Red. I think oh it's a little bit, Jamie, when you're, you quite often tell jokes where there's a punchline and you're very, I would say good, but dramatic about the delivery of it.
00:48:52
Jen
So you sort of build it up in that dramatic way and then you leave the pause and then you come in and here is Q. And so that element, I can, I can see this. I think you should take it as a compliment.
00:49:04
Jen
Q is hilarious and an amazing act.
00:49:05
El Platypo
I do, I do.
00:49:05
Red D
Yes!
00:49:06
El Platypo
Did you see me being offended apart from when I told I read that I was offended in a culy clearly not serious way?
00:49:06
Red D
Yeah.
00:49:10
Red D
You did.
00:49:13
El Platypo
But I'm going to maintain the pretense of offense. It's useful.
00:49:17
Red D
I mean it's not meant, it's only meant as a compliment while there's a better way, but I just, that moment really reminds me of you.
00:49:19
El Platypo
With elections.
00:49:26
Jen
Well, I am on to my final point, I think, which is, I can't, it's a really basic one, but, you know, my love of Janeway, well, this is another love ah loving Janeway woman.
00:49:26
El Platypo
Marvelous. Hmm.
00:49:41
Jen
I just really thought she did an excellent job of delivering just this one line, is when when basically Quinn has, she decided that Quinn can become mortal, and he's been given mortality, um so now,
00:49:55
Jen
you know presumably he's going to kill himself but she wants to try and you know persuade him not to so she talks about you know now you're mortal maybe um you might want to reconsider you could you could experience what it's like living in a mortal body you've never done that before that's new and you might get different experience anyway and she's like she's really trying so earnestly to convince him and she says i like this life cue and it's just the way she says those five words and you know it looks like she has such tears in her eyes and emotion and I just think it's an excellent little delivery of a five word sentence.
00:50:32
El Platypo
It's so lovely.
00:50:34
Red D
Yeah, it's very good. It's very good. And I think, I mean, you kind of already mentioned her her like seething anger or or, but overall, I mean, she just played, I mean, she did such a good job, um, reacting to Q and like all, although her, I dunno, reactions were spot on and her, well, I thought, um, but that moment was, yeah, I really hoped he would absorb that message, but I guess he had experienced everything.
00:50:43
El Platypo
yeah
00:50:47
El Platypo
but
00:50:56
El Platypo
yes i mean i no i disagree i i think this is the one moment of the entire episode that the rice has got wrong because
00:51:10
Red D
Mm.
00:51:12
El Platypo
he has experienced everything but for a creature who clearly is a member of a race who are experienced gourmet's it doesn't ring true to me that he would pass up on the opportunity of exploring a new galaxy of experiences as immortal it just doesn't ring true given that the absence of
00:51:23
Jen
Thank you.
00:51:40
El Platypo
potential new experiences is what drives him to the point of wanting to take his life. I know they got that one wrong in an absolutely otherwise pitch-perfect Exquisite episode.
00:51:53
Red D
But don't you think he would have experienced, every time he left on that road to go to the universe and then came back, he had all these...
00:51:57
El Platypo
Now, because experiencing something immortal omnipotently is entirely different to experiencing notson nixon and not
00:52:06
Jen
I do. <unk> got I was say that I do completely understand the argument.
00:52:07
El Platypo
the
00:52:07
Red D
go ahead Jenny.
00:52:12
Jen
And I think Jamie made a good, ah you know, good argue um and in favor of that.
00:52:13
Red D
Yeah.
00:52:20
Jen
um But it did ring true to me just because although obviously it's different, it would be a different experience being mortal if you've been in um immortal forever.
00:52:23
El Platypo
Mmm.
00:52:29
Jen
um Because he's also, well, I'm still going on the basis that they're basically ah omnipotent, right? And if you were, um
00:52:37
El Platypo
But he he wasn't autistic.
00:52:37
Jen
he he He would already know what it's like because they're omnipotence. They know what it's like to be human. They know what it's like to be every kind of species, like a fish and a flea. And they know everything, you know.
00:52:46
El Platypo
and no because they disagree because they clearly don't have full sight of the future otherwise Q would have known what would happen when this situation arose and by very definition to be human is to not be omnipotent and to have that element of risk and of finiteness to your day-to-day interactions I just think
00:52:48
Jen
So. ah
00:53:11
El Platypo
would revealed it a completely different experience set, one which he hadn't had the chance to have.
00:53:17
Jen
Hmm.
00:53:17
El Platypo
So I i think they get it wrong, this that one piece of the entire episode. As much as it's important that the entire thing that he do be to kill himself, I think it actually would have added a fascinating dynamic having someone who theoretically knew everything, but couldn't do anything as part of their team.
00:53:36
El Platypo
I think he could have been a new Neelix character.
00:53:38
Red D
yeah I think, yeah, I mean, I think I see it from both sides and depending on maybe when I watched it, whatever I could see, but I think from like a TV writing perspective, if I may say that, it would have been like a bit of a, I don't know what's the right way of putting it, to have this whole thing about him being able to decide whether he could die or not, and then not letting him get to choose, would have been quite a week, it would have like weakened the whole argument of the whole
00:54:08
El Platypo
Well, I think it does.
00:54:08
Red D
request was asylum and I mean I'm not yeah it
00:54:11
El Platypo
I think it already does.
00:54:14
Jen
I guess he would have still been choosing, wouldn't he? but choosing
00:54:18
Red D
would have been a bit it would have like I think really been a like too sweet ending for that show for that episode
00:54:24
Jen
Yeah, I agree. I quite like the way it ended, even though obviously it's sad. And also, so for me, a part of what Quinn was trying to do was to um do something to like shake up the continuum to change it you know, try stuff that's...
00:54:37
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:54:40
Jen
they've basically said at the start of the episode that um they've lost the ability to to grow and learn and develop because they haven't done that in centuries, yawns, because nothing ever changes.
00:54:48
El Platypo
and
00:54:51
Jen
And what Quinn liked about Q was that he was being some kind of disruption because he wasn't obeying the rules. Everyone's followed for thousands of years so Quinn wasn't obeying them either by killing himself and that's You know, because that was that his sort of last, his hilarious trying to give meaningful last words, ah sort of saying, this is my present, the continuum, my death.
00:55:09
El Platypo
Yeah. yeah
00:55:14
Red D
And I just want to say from a personal perspective, I would have loved him to have a nice life as a human being.
00:55:19
El Platypo
Hmm, yeah.
00:55:19
Red D
But I just i was just saying purely from a TV writing perspective, it just makes it a bit more, it's not really, it doesn't reach the level of shocking, but stronger, I think in a sense.
00:55:19
Jen
Yeah.
00:55:24
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:55:29
Jen
Yeah.
00:55:30
Red D
not They don't check it out, I guess, out of the final, because it's like, okay, well, he fought for asylum, but he gets to choose to, he chose to live.
00:55:32
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:55:35
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:55:36
Red D
So it's a happy ending. It's not really a happy ending, which I guess is kind of, well, it can be interpreted in various ways.
00:55:42
Jen
Yeah, I do think though, um your your argument, Jade, like that definitely, it crossed my mind as well. I was like, you know, Jane really argued so um well, you know, you're now you're mortal and, you know, it's going to be a completely new existence to being immortal. ah I think on balance, like I quite like the ending they chose.
00:56:04
Red D
Yeah, again, on a personal level, I think he's missing out.
00:56:07
El Platypo
Yeah, and that's why I think that it doesn't ring true.
00:56:07
Jen
yeah
00:56:12
El Platypo
It's been starved, starved for 30 decades.
00:56:12
Red D
Yeah, I see a point, yeah.
00:56:18
Jen
So red, I think. Next.
00:56:21
Red D
Oh, yes. So I think um maybe just some areas around the legal side of things, not really, but I'll just lump these two together. But um we saw Tuvok and Janeway upholding their belief system, are very strongly I guess.
00:56:37
Red D
But um when we find out that Tuboc actually doesn't agree with Quinn and his biological suicide, but he's still doing his best to act as his lawyer.
00:56:42
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.
00:56:49
Red D
um I mean, I don't know if people often feel like this, but every now and again you hear people being like, how can you defend that person or whatever? I'm like, that's their job.
00:56:56
El Platypo
but
00:56:59
Red D
If lawyers start being able to choose who they can
00:57:03
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:57:03
Red D
You know, like, you know, like that would be a very slippery slope to go down. I think personally, cause I already liked, no, sorry.
00:57:06
El Platypo
And also click
00:57:09
Red D
It's just his, um,
00:57:09
El Platypo
No, no, I was going to say in riffing off you, ah hu the way in which Quinn reacts to Tuvok saying that and surprising him and the appreciation that he has for being surprised and something, that to me reinforces my position of he should have tried mortal life and it doesn't read through.
00:57:24
Red D
yes.
00:57:30
Red D
He would have been surprised again if he had given it to us.
00:57:32
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:57:32
Red D
That's true. Um, so I really liked, yeah, I mean, obviously too awkward would be like that, but it was just interesting to throw that in and realize that, oh, he actually completely disagrees with this, but he is doing a really good job of, um, you know, putting forward his case.
00:57:41
El Platypo
yeah
00:57:43
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:57:46
Red D
And then also when Q2 tries to bribe Janeway with a shortcut back to Earth. I was like, that's never going to work on her, you idiot.
00:57:55
Jen
there
00:57:55
Red D
But you know, um,
00:57:56
Jen
no.
00:57:57
Red D
What do you say as an incentive for making the right decision or something?
00:58:01
El Platypo
I need to use that line.
00:58:03
Jen
ah Please don't!
00:58:04
Red D
Jamie's like, writing that down for the next meeting.
00:58:04
Jen
Oh my gosh! Oh no!
00:58:08
El Platypo
Here's an incentive to make the right decision.
00:58:08
Jen
Jamie, you're gonna go to jail!
00:58:12
El Platypo
I'll restructure you Yeah,
00:58:16
Jen
Yeah, I mean, I like that um Q says, I mean, I told the continuum that wouldn't work.
00:58:19
Red D
Oh, good.
00:58:22
Jen
Like, he knows, like, obviously she's not going to take a bribe. But his second offer of saying, okay, but bear this in mind, to help your decision, we won't send him back to that.
00:58:33
Jen
awful condition in prison. um I'm like, well, I mean, yeah that's ah that that would add that you'd certainly take that into account, wouldn't you, in your deliberations?
00:58:35
El Platypo
yeah
00:58:41
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
00:58:43
Red D
That was interesting. and so i was I wasn't quite sure how, I'm not really good at, I don't know, I don't know if it's negotiation, but yes, it was interesting the way he approached like trying to get what he wanted.
00:58:55
Red D
First was to offer her Earth, knowing that she wanted to know that she just wasn't gonna send him back to this horrible situation. Then when they moved beyond that, he gives her what she actually wanted. Now she's kind of moved on from that.
00:59:08
Red D
Anyway, I just thought it was interesting, but I thought, I'm like, you're playing a bit dirty now, Q.
00:59:08
Jen
Yeah.
00:59:10
El Platypo
and
00:59:14
El Platypo
I mean, that's that's his calling card.
00:59:14
Jen
It's very in character.
00:59:16
Red D
Yes, yeah.
00:59:18
Jen
I agree about the T-VOC. I thought T-VOC was great in this as well, like, I love that, you know, the way Quinn asks him to represent him and he goes through the logic of it, like, well, you know, I don't have any legal training.
00:59:22
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:59:34
Jen
um You know, it doesn't make any sense. but then Quinn just boils it down to you, but I'm asking you. And at the and end of the day, then presumably Tuvok is going to say yes, regardless of how logical it is, because to him, it's logical that he does his duty.
00:59:47
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:59:52
Red D
Yeah.
00:59:52
Jen
um Someone has asked him to represent them.
00:59:56
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:59:56
Jen
And so he's going to say yes, regardless of whether he agrees with them or whether he thinks he's the best person, um because it's, I guess,
00:59:59
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:00:01
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:00:05
Jen
He feels it's his future to do so. I don't know what you guys thought about that.
01:00:09
Red D
Yeah, I mean, he puts his his role, his duty above his own personal opinion. And I liked his line when they were kind of in a canteen in January, and he was like, yeah, we still haven't persuaded the captain Like he was really taking his role very seriously, like, um, and the role of persuading Jane Wayne.
01:00:29
Red D
I didn't explain, I don't remember that line well enough to quote it, but, um, I just, I don't know, for me, that moment reinforced that he was doing the, like, he was really serious about doing the best that he could.
01:00:30
El Platypo
No,
01:00:39
Red D
And he was actually convinced that they would be able to persuade her eventually. Um, that's kind of the impression I got.
01:00:47
Red D
But, you know,
01:00:47
Jen
So I, go
01:00:49
Red D
I'll just say this is like, I guess this is where I learned all my rules of society and stuff from. And then in a real society, this is not really how it works. I'm like, when people are like, oh, that lawyer shouldn't have defended that person.
01:01:00
El Platypo
no.
01:01:02
Red D
I'm like, I'm so confused. Why are you saying that? In this episode of Star Trek, two completely disagree that this guy should be able to come commit suicide, but he defended about him anyway.
01:01:06
Jen
but
01:01:10
Jen
but Yeah, absolutely. I think in real life, I understand that for some lawyers as well, it's a case of they've been the way they've been educated as a lawyer is to um and powers them and what drives them is to win and an argument.
01:01:27
Jen
and And the harder that argument is to win, the more and the all they enjoy it.
01:01:31
Red D
Yes, yes, yeah.
01:01:32
Jen
you know That's their passion, this winning hard arguments. And therefore, some of them would probably actively seek out to argue against things that they um they actually don't agree with, you know, but I'll do.
01:01:44
Red D
Yes, but if you also, if you somehow mistakenly get accused of a crime, you want someone who will defend you as the best of their ability as well. I mean, oh but yes, I think there is an element of just like being smart enough to outsmart the like charges or something.
01:01:53
Jen
Absolutely.
01:02:00
Red D
Yeah, like and unpack the problem.
01:02:05
Jen
Yeah, I don't have any points left, so I'm gonna have to go. ah I mean, how many of you guys have left?
01:02:12
Red D
I'm done.
01:02:13
El Platypo
I have one. I have one point.
01:02:14
Red D
yeah
01:02:15
Jen
Oh, well then we will end with Jamie.
01:02:16
El Platypo
And I'd like to lighten the mood. I would like to riff off the moment in which Q makes his offer. But instead of focusing on the offer, could we just talk about what appears to be typical Star Trek skipper and intruder wear?
01:02:32
El Platypo
Can I just point out, like, what the hell is A, that unbelievably sexy night dress January appears to be wearing? like completely impractical to sleep in, full length silk and And B, what the hell does Q think he's up to, trying to seduce her wearing a massive sock on his head?
01:02:58
Red D
What was Was he dressed in like old-fashioned pajamas or something?
01:02:58
Jen
Hahaha!
01:02:59
El Platypo
Is that meant to be like a phallic symbol for a condom or something? because like Yeah, yeah, old fashioned nightgown and and night sock on his head.
01:03:07
Red D
I need to rewatch that because to be fair I was so taken by Jamie's pajamas which I think
01:03:08
El Platypo
ah Like completely undermined the sexuality of his natural charisma.
01:03:18
Jen
ah
01:03:18
El Platypo
See, it wasn't just me that noticed them.
01:03:21
Red D
I think this is like a more like a but maybe not a maturity thing or a age thing, but like, yes, in the past I was like, what is she wearing? Why isn't she just like instead of issue gray onesie or something?
01:03:30
Jen
yeah
01:03:31
Red D
Like that's what I'm imagining.
01:03:32
El Platypo
i presumably because the ones he was issued to the ah the ship cats for reasons.
01:03:33
Red D
But now, yeah. Now I'm like, appreciate a quality nighttime outfit. And actually I once, yeah, a nightie can be very comfortable.
01:03:46
Jen
well i mean yeah isn't silk supposed to be
01:03:47
Red D
I've never had one like that.
01:03:48
El Platypo
and She's not wearing a 90, she's wearing a full length dress.
01:03:54
Red D
Yes.
01:03:54
Jen
I think it is a 90, but ah it's very...
01:03:58
El Platypo
i'm mean
01:04:00
Jen
I think it's beautiful.
01:04:01
Red D
It is beautiful.
01:04:02
Jen
ah I wouldn't wear it in bed, but, you know...
01:04:03
El Platypo
I'm going to see if I can Google this without getting NSFW.
01:04:06
Red D
i I didn't actually listen to the corresponding Delta Flies episode this week, but I have a feeling from listening to it like four years ago that they also freaked out about a pajamas.
01:04:16
Jen
I mean, I think she looks crab, but yeah, I mean, it's not not my standard nightwear.
01:04:23
Red D
yeah she does she does look great and every now and again i once had this what was really comfortable and not not sexy at all but it was like white thick cotton like nighty like long sleeve down to the floor like i don't know if you remember a little bit like in mo when marshall wears like that night dress um in how i met your mother like it's weird how like something so full length and like with so much fabric out of it it's actually really comfortable
01:04:44
Jen
Oh yeah.
01:04:50
Jen
Well this is the thing, I feel like I can't judge Jamie too harshly for wearing that lightie because in fact have I ever actually worn something like that to bed?
01:04:55
El Platypo
I'm not judging her harshly. I am not judging her harshly.
01:04:57
Jen
Maybe they're really comfortable.
01:04:59
El Platypo
Or indeed negatively.
01:04:59
Jen
You never know. but Jamie I think you should wear something like that to bed first and then you can tell us.
01:05:03
El Platypo
You want me to wear Janeway's outfit?
01:05:05
Jen
Yeah to bed and then you can tell us if it's comfy.
01:05:09
El Platypo
You buy me Janeway's outfit and I'll wear it.
01:05:12
Red D
And don't send me the pictures, is all I'm saying.
01:05:15
El Platypo
And if you want me to, I will send her other pictures because she clearly needs to be more comfortable with transvesticism if she worries about me wearing Janeway's outfit.
01:05:18
Red D
ah
01:05:24
Red D
No, it's not that. It's just that, you know...
01:05:26
El Platypo
Oh, so it's me, is it? It's me?
01:05:28
Red D
No!
01:05:28
El Platypo
Oh, I... Right, fine. I thought you were a sexist. Actually, it's you hate your friend.
01:05:34
Red D
I'm just not that positive, that's what it's about.
01:05:34
El Platypo
How you wound me.
01:05:38
El Platypo
So?
01:05:39
Red D
I'm not that sex positive. I don't want to know about what happens in your bedroom.
01:05:42
El Platypo
I'm not sexual in a nightgown, I'm just resting. Why are you objectifying me, you dreadful, you know, pigs?
01:05:46
Red D
I apologize again.
01:05:51
Jen
is it I feel like it's a good time to move on to themes.
01:05:54
Red D
Very good.
01:05:55
Jen
Although I know I am the only person who's written down themes this week.
01:05:55
El Platypo
Sexism.
01:06:00
Jen
just um they To be fair, I don't usually write them down to be honest.
01:06:01
Red D
Yes, I have, I'll pick a theme, but I didn't write it
01:06:05
El Platypo
I'll pick one too.
01:06:07
Jen
I just clearly was feeling very organised today. ah And I think we've discussed the one that anyone's already that I put down, which is like the nature of suffering and whether living too long.
01:06:19
Jen
is actually for torture. um And, you know, the rights of the individual versus the state.
01:06:24
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:06:25
Jen
There's one.
01:06:25
Red D
Sorry, Jenny, can you just rip repeat that a little bit because I just heard, sorry, Jamie's chair thing moving, sorry.
01:06:26
Jen
Anyone else?
01:06:30
El Platypo
Sorry.
01:06:30
Jen
Oh, um but I was just saying that my two themes I've written, we've probably already covered basically just the nature of suffering.
01:06:31
Red D
I didn't catch it.
01:06:37
Jen
I, e you know, when Quinn is um not suffering in terms of pain or disease, but he, you know, is supposedly suffering due to having to live so long.
01:06:49
Jen
on repeating the same things over and over. And also other theme, rights of the individual versus rights of the state. So they were my two. What about you guys?
01:07:04
El Platypo
Sexism, why are omnipotent being sexist?
01:07:08
Jen
ah
01:07:09
Red D
Well, yes. I think Janium came up with a good response to that.
01:07:13
El Platypo
Oh yeah, fair.
01:07:13
Red D
A good rational.
01:07:15
El Platypo
I know, i think I think you had some good one. I mean, there's a really interesting one about why on earth the Q continuum are respecting a star, well... ah Federation star ships offer of asylum when they're quite clearly capable of just taking the ship itself by snapping their fingers. That's an interesting one for me.
01:07:37
Jen
Yeah, that's all.
01:07:38
Red D
Well, I guess that's Yeah, I mean, she did say that, yeah, anytime anyone requests a sign, then there's a standard procedure, but I guess that's like, maybe abiding by the rules of space, society.
01:07:43
El Platypo
yeah
01:07:46
El Platypo
Also, um which which is closer to a deity? One of the Kew continuum or one of the weird sort of um beings in that weird sort of interspatial hole in Beethor.
01:08:01
Red D
I know
01:08:03
Jen
Oh, what? but
01:08:05
Red D
what you're talking about. The wormhole in D space nine.
01:08:07
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:08:10
Jen
Oh, I can't remember them.
01:08:11
Red D
I think they are more closer to deities.
01:08:16
Red D
Also they have more people worshiping them, right?
01:08:17
Jen
Oh, yeah.
01:08:19
El Platypo
Which the cues?
01:08:21
Red D
No, the wormhole people.
01:08:23
El Platypo
But are the wormhole people omnipotent?
01:08:26
Red D
Don't know.
01:08:28
El Platypo
Interesting.
01:08:29
Red D
But they seem to be a more spiritual element, let's put it that way.
01:08:31
El Platypo
Yep.
01:08:31
Red D
Like visions and connection.
01:08:32
Jen
Plus, the queue talk about evolving.
01:08:33
El Platypo
Yep. Yep.
01:08:38
Jen
So it seemed less, you know, as Rod says, they're spiritual, it's just in in theory all these wonderful what seem like magical things they can do are actually um things that they have evolved to be able to do.
01:08:42
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:08:54
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:08:54
Red D
Yes, maybe their fingers just have like a micro transporter.
01:08:59
Jen
There is that, do you remember that episode, I think it's Deep Space Nine, where there's the Ferengi, I'm not sure though, the Ferengi who basically
01:08:59
Red D
thanks
01:09:10
Jen
are able to convince a village of people that they are deities because they made tricks with a transporter to make it look like they can make things disappear and appear like the cube.
01:09:13
Red D
That's a good episode.
01:09:16
Red D
ah
01:09:21
Jen
So, but that's kind of what the queue always saying, isn't it, is that the reason you, it seems like magic is because you're not involved enough yet, you know, and things that we do now with science, if we went back 300 years, people back then would think it seemed like magic.
01:09:21
Red D
oh that's a good episode
01:09:30
Red D
Yeah.
01:09:32
El Platypo
No, I'm.
01:09:38
El Platypo
a
01:09:41
El Platypo
Interesting.
01:09:41
Red D
Yeah.
01:09:42
Jen
Anywho.
01:09:43
Red D
I mean, I think that you you you read you hit the main theme, well, one of the key themes, which is that like, um well, the rights, various rights, but I also, like you said, the nature of suffering and how i mean I often like kind of in a very prestigious manner i say only boring people get bored but I mean be kind of um maybe it's not that I just want to like expand a little bit more on like how tough it is to live if you're super bored and I mean like in a sense like if nothing is great not I mean I don't know we don't spend a lot of time thinking about it but I in my work especially I see people suffer when they're not stimulated at work
01:10:24
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:10:24
Red D
And I certainly feel like i can that can happen to me if I don't take charge of my own stimulation.
01:10:28
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:10:28
Jen
oh
01:10:30
Red D
That's what he said, she said, whatever. but um And yeah, I think he was suffering because he was bored.
01:10:39
El Platypo
yeah
01:10:39
Red D
And I'm not saying fix boredom by like you know running out, trying to get, but you need to be stimulated mentally, physically, otherwise it's a very tough existence.
01:10:48
Jen
oh
01:10:51
Jen
Yeah I mean that's kind of what depression as I understand it equates to isn't it of like you don't you're not interested in anything
01:10:54
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:10:58
Jen
any aspect of your life you're not you're not able to motivate yourself to even get out of bed to do your teeth because it's none of it feels like it's mattered matters matters you're not stimulated by it you're not interested in anything which sounds awful it does that does sound like suffering to me and um know ah to remove on move on to star player which is a bit more like artist okay
01:11:16
Red D
No.
01:11:19
Red D
So.
01:11:20
El Platypo
Well, yes, yes.
01:11:20
Red D
Yeah, sorry. Because we got a small.
01:11:24
Red D
Yes. Yes.
01:11:27
Red D
Jamie.
01:11:28
Jen
David.
01:11:29
El Platypo
Well, I want to name one, but I want to get the reasons why.
01:11:34
Red D
As per every time.
01:11:34
El Platypo
Q. you as the only being in the universe who has managed to be involved in a Star Trek Voyager episode and limit the damage that Neelix has done to some non-catastrophe threatening level.

Character Performances and Interactions

01:11:52
Red D
Why are you saying that? I feel like I'm forgetting something crucial here.
01:11:55
El Platypo
Because any time anyone else has interacted with Neelix In an episode, we have flirted with disaster, whereas in this instance, Q is so omnipotent and so powerful, he manages to interact with Neelix, and nothing negative occurs, being a slightly weird joke about rabbits.
01:12:03
Red D
Okay.
01:12:18
Red D
Well, you must have a real lens on me, like, yeah.
01:12:20
El Platypo
I love Neelix. I love someone who is able to generate disaster that well, but we gotta respect Q for what he manages there.
01:12:25
Red D
oh
01:12:29
Red D
Very good point. ie ae Well, I'm not sure. Yes, not to say. It was a very tough call for me at this time between 2Buck, the legal genius, and Janeway.
01:12:41
Red D
But I think I'm gonna go for Janeway just for how she handled Q.
01:12:43
El Platypo
nice see
01:12:48
Red D
She was brilliant.
01:12:50
Jen
Yeah, I mean, she was.
01:12:51
Red D
and though obviously the hearing and everything, but it was all her reactions to Q that I really loved.
01:12:57
Jen
Yeah, well, it's a toughie, I agree. I, i especially because I would struggle to choose between, well, three Q, Janeway, and two volt, because I think they all did brilliantly in this.
01:13:03
El Platypo
Nicely. Hmm.
01:13:11
Jen
um I think, ah I think though, i I don't know guys, I don't know, can I have all three? i just I'm just going to go for two boxes because you guys chose Q and Jamie.
01:13:25
Jen
But I thought both Jamie and Q did some brilliant acting.
01:13:28
El Platypo
Actually, I would like to change mine.
01:13:31
Jen
Oh no!
01:13:31
El Platypo
I would like to nominate Bolana Torres for being the one who actually gets him out of captivity.
01:13:38
Red D
Who notices that all the men are gone? Or that she gets them out of the cabin?
01:13:40
El Platypo
You get some out of captivity, no one else beams him out of the asteroid.
01:13:45
Red D
Ohh, it beams him out of the asteroid, yes, sorry.
01:13:46
Jen
She starts it all off. Yeah, that's true. That's true. But yeah, I think.
01:13:50
El Platypo
She's the clown running across that particular minefield.
01:13:53
Red D
But we can- Yes.
01:13:54
Jen
I do think to you, to you, October, there's some mentioned because for reasons read, they explained um not to do with the actors so much as to do with the character plays of putting up such a good defense, even though he doesn't actually um agree.
01:14:12
Red D
Yeah, and I think this might be, oh, maybe it's not, but I feel like this might be the first time I've chosen Jenny.
01:14:17
Jen
oh
01:14:19
Red D
Well, so.
01:14:19
El Platypo
January's our leadership icon.
01:14:21
Red D
She is, but as Jenny always says, we know there's gonna be lots of chain links in the future.
01:14:25
Jen
you yeah i try
01:14:27
El Platypo
one
01:14:28
Jen
try not to use a do
01:14:32
Jen
that's it guys
01:14:32
El Platypo
Well

Closing Remarks and Recommendations

01:14:34
Red D
Thank you, Jenny. Is it time for me to play the next jingle?
01:14:35
El Platypo
done.
01:14:38
Jen
I think it is I'm sorry it was a bit of a long one this time yes I'm
01:14:39
El Platypo
Can someone else do a bit more dancing there? Cause like I did all of it last time and I didn't like to carry.
01:14:47
El Platypo
Yeah.
01:14:47
Jen
channeling my inner hin, Jamie.
01:14:50
El Platypo
You're in a what?
01:14:51
Jen
Jamie will know what that means. and If anyone reads the Miles Cameron novels Deep Black, they will know what I'm doing in my dance moves.
01:14:52
El Platypo
Oh, yes, yes.
01:14:54
Red D
Who dat?
01:15:01
Red D
Okay.
01:15:05
Red D
Well, I'll have to look it up because I've finished all the books you recommended last time.
01:15:11
Red D
Okay, bye! Don't hang up!
01:15:14
El Platypo
okay