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We watch "Prototype" (S2 Ep.13)
14 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Prototype" in which we learn an important lesson:
When working with software (or killer robots) make sure you read the code comments, before doing something stupid (like bringing killer robots back from the brink of extinction).
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at [email protected].
Theme music by Alain D
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Technical Challenges
00:00:03
red23
I just can't help myself from making strange noises.
00:00:08
El Platypo
Is that going to be in the recording? You saying, I can't help making strange noises.
00:00:10
red23
when Oh yes, I think I figured out how to fade out last time before it just fades out. So welcome back everybody. Some more headdancing. Oh, forgot how long this...
00:00:25
Jen
What was the beep?
00:00:27
red23
Oh here we go, I remember now, sorry guys. um so Here we go, it fades us all up and you have to click it down.
00:00:32
Jen
Do we usually fade out a bit sooner?
Show Format and Humor
00:00:35
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:00:35
red23
A bit sooner, but it's not like we have a very strict formula for this show.
00:00:35
Jen
I've not heard the beep before.
00:00:39
red23
know
00:00:39
El Platypo
I mean, I'm sorry, I'm going to channel Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder.
00:00:39
Jen
Mm
00:00:42
El Platypo
Next time that's Blade, I'm going to have fat hands and I'm going to dance.
00:00:46
red23
And then can, I love that idea, but then and we have to get on video.
Episode Introduction: 'Season 2 Episode 13: Prototype'
00:00:52
red23
um So normally I would say what episode we are Reviewing, discussing, but Janie, can I put you on the spot and just say to tell us what we're discussing today, what episode?
00:01:00
Jen
-hmm.
00:01:04
Jen
Oh, okay. I believe it's Season 2 Episode 13 prototype.
00:01:09
red23
Very good and very well read from the notes.
00:01:12
Jen
Yeah, I mean, it's a bit it's a good thing I had the notes open, Red.
00:01:13
El Platypo
hey
00:01:15
Jen
I would have no idea otherwise.
00:01:17
red23
ah
00:01:17
Jen
yeah
00:01:18
red23
Sorry, I just decided to share the love a little bit around.
00:01:22
El Platypo
I mean can i can I just point out I have the notes in front of me but I wouldn't actually have been able to say that because I thought, read that you said Jamie can you tell us, and I was looking frantically up and down and I didn't find them until Jenny said it and I was like oh it's in the title!
00:01:36
red23
Oh yes, I did a little thing where I removed that line on the top because I just had to keep repeating myself every time I created a new document. So I was like, you know, I repeat the edits. So I was like.
00:01:44
El Platypo
Hang on, I'd like to talk about this with my union official hat on. No one said there would be, you know, spot checks and tests
Plot Summary and Initial Reactions
00:01:51
El Platypo
and things.
00:01:51
Jen
Thank
00:01:52
red23
But Jamie, your job is to give us the one minute summary, so.
00:01:56
El Platypo
I know, and it is a difficult one-minute summary for this one because it basically feels as though Bolana brings a race of robots who look like Doctor Who villains back from the edge of extinction, only to meet their counterparts who look even more like Doctor Who villains and them, find out they're both genocidal maniac races, and then get the hell out of dodge.
00:02:16
Jen
you.
00:02:23
El Platypo
And that would be my summary, really.
00:02:25
red23
But that was brilliant, so yeah. God, God, definitely.
00:02:28
Jen
Round of applause.
00:02:31
red23
um I noticed that, okay, so you mentioned Doctor Who villain vibes in terms of initial reactions. Well, I feel like, Jamie, you're gonna have a lot to say here, but I'm gonna go with Jenny first.
00:02:45
Jen
Oh well, thank you kindly. ah I quite like this one. um i ah I mean I really, I'll get on onto to it later I guess, but I really love the like trashy sci-fi fantasy backstory, you know, robot wars and kill killing their creators and their builders or whatever they call them.
Comparative Analysis: Star Trek and Doctor Who
00:03:04
Jen
I just kind of like that. It is very Doctor Who-esque and I just think it's fun. So I quite like this one.
00:03:10
red23
Oh, good. And Jamie, I feel like you're gonna conquer space science fiction adventure again, exclamation mark, exclamation mark, exclamation mark. Was that you? I know.
00:03:19
El Platypo
yeah it it was although it was only three exclamation marks i think you might have given me four there but um review when you edit so i understand why everyone is against me this evening um and i deserve everything i get um called big eight
00:03:25
red23
Hmm, I will go back when I edit this episode on double check.
00:03:28
Jen
i think I think it was three, you know, Jay, I think Red may have given the exact right amount of the exclamation marks.
00:03:43
El Platypo
No, it's a bit of a weird one because it felt, I mean, I know it puts space science fiction adventure again, and yes, you know, a tale of someone being kidnapped by space robots who are in the middle of, ah you know, robot war, and, you know, bringing back a doomed race with technology and then getting out when they're
00:03:43
red23
hahaha
00:04:02
El Platypo
you know, bad guys, it turns out. I know that that's very science fiction-y, but it felt more sort of Star Trek-y than many have of late, with, you know, the problem being one solved by some of Star Trek, not Star Trek, but Star Fleet's famed engineering, um although maybe it might be marquee engineering as it was Milano Torres, you know, um some frankly horrifying hundred-year-old alien robots who I did the science on the million hours and worked out it was 115 plus years old.
00:04:38
Jen
oh i did that
00:04:38
El Platypo
um
00:04:39
red23
Oh nice.
00:04:39
Jen
but second
00:04:41
El Platypo
um who could have been made to seem considerably more sinister as they are also say basically the premise of the first series of Star Trek Picard in that, you know, artificial intelligence, what turning on human life and things like that. And also Elon Musk's nightmare about AI.
00:05:00
Jen
Oh I did that.
00:05:01
El Platypo
um It could have been done an awful lot more sinisterly, but it sort of wasn't. And it sort of felt contained and in the way that Star Trek sometimes does a little bit child friendly, which Feels like a weird thing to say about two massive races of genocidal robots.
00:05:18
Jen
Bye.
00:05:18
red23
But yes, I mean, i we watched it as children. Well, yeah. So, um anything else before I just get my initial impression? um I think I always struggle with this question because I'm not really an initial impression person. I think I realize I am detail-oriented. Oh dear. But I love your comments about Doctor Who because I'm not familiar with Doctor Who, but I did feel, I mean, I know it, but um I didn't grow up with it. I haven't watched a lot of it. but I did feel the whole time that this was tapping into like a lot of pre-existing story, lore, science fiction, ah robot wars. Again, I don't watch any other, I hate to use the term science fiction, but Star Trek for me, that's it basically. so But I felt like other people would pick up on um lots of other stuff. So it looks like you guys did. um Right.
00:06:14
red23
I don't really have a one cool thing, but I did notice that this episode was directed by Jonathan Frakes. Is that the guy from The Next Generation? The Next Generation.
00:06:27
Jen
Oh, is he in?
00:06:27
red23
you know You know who he is.
00:06:30
El Platypo
Do I?
00:06:30
red23
Yes, you do. If you've watched the one, the Picard Star Trek, he's the next in command.
00:06:37
El Platypo
Ooh, the next in command.
00:06:37
Jen
Next time, come on.
00:06:39
red23
He's the first officer, I think.
00:06:42
Jen
Oh.
00:06:43
red23
Not Picard, the new series, although he isn't Picard, the new series, but the next generation.
00:06:48
El Platypo
ah the like The Hispanic Captain guy.
00:06:53
Jen
Oh, you're talking about will in the,
00:06:53
red23
Uh, yes. Well, there we go.
00:06:56
Jen
next gen oh i thought yeah sorry i thought you meant Picard and then i got very confused um oh so he directed this one oh cool he's like the equivalent of jakote in uh next gen i guess kind of natural true man
00:06:57
red23
Yes.
00:06:59
El Platypo
Yeah, I thought you meant the guard.
00:07:02
red23
Yo, he actually directed a lot of Star Trek, but I just saw his name pop up. So I was like, ah.
00:07:08
red23
Um, yeah.
00:07:14
red23
Yeah, exactly.
00:07:14
El Platypo
Interesting.
00:07:17
red23
Yes. i rany I mean, now I love him, but when I rewatched to Next Generation like a year or two ago, I was like, he's just like a giant toddler man.
00:07:26
El Platypo
yeah
00:07:27
Jen
I can see that. Yeah, I can see why.
00:07:30
El Platypo
Aww.
00:07:31
red23
It's not like I didn't like him, but he's just reminded me of a giant toddler man as well anyway.
Exploring Star Trek's Prime Directive
00:07:36
red23
I can see it. Okay, so moving on to our usual discussion, and we'll go through our aunt's favorite things. Um, Janie, I happen to write your name down first and we know I have to track this very methodically, otherwise I'll lose my way, so you have update to kick us off.
00:07:53
Jen
yeah absolutely um so uh you know this was one of those ones which i watched it i enjoyed it but then i really was struggling to to come up with things to discuss um so i'm afraid i cheated a little bit and i read your guys things but then reading your guys notes always uh like inspires other thoughts so um now i have several things First one of which, um so I just really liked the discussion right at the start between Janeway and Bolana where they were trying to, where she was trying to Janeway, Bolana trying to convince Janeway to let her um try and help them ah repair the power units so that they could create more, I don't know, what are they, are they called droids or automated units?
00:08:16
red23
good
00:08:35
red23
Good.
00:08:35
El Platypo
Project
00:08:39
red23
ah Units, automated units.
00:08:39
El Platypo
types? Yeah.
00:08:43
Jen
And yeah, I just, I don't know, for me, it had a little bit of a like medical ethics vibe. This is the whole, I like the way they both presented their arguments. They were very good points, you know, and you had one of them talking about comparing it to like, would you withhold giving a species a treatment which would allow them to reproduce as otherwise they would die out, which is, you know, quite a motive.
00:09:00
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:09:04
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:09:09
Jen
um analogy, um but then, you know, versus Daneway's point of, yes, but they never had the ability to reproduce and we would in fact be um interfering quite seriously in if they were organic beings, like evolution potentially, she compared it to evolution at one point, and and changing their, what what is for robots would be their DNA, you know,
00:09:30
red23
Yes. yeah
00:09:36
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:09:36
Jen
um
00:09:37
red23
There
00:09:37
Jen
And I thought that was really interesting because she's kind of touching up on all those like discussions, especially back then, that there would have been around, you know, working with stem cells and should you be messing with DNA and what if it's to treat an incurable disease?
00:09:47
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:09:48
red23
we are.
00:09:52
Jen
Is that okay?
00:09:52
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:09:53
Jen
And all these difficult medical ethics arguments. And I just really enjoyed that scene between them because they were sort of presenting their different arguments. And I just find it a really interesting topic.
00:10:05
red23
Yeah, that's a good reminder because sometimes I sometimes I remember sometimes I forget, but if you think about when the show was made and broadcast, that's a really good point. And yeah, it was a good, I mean, I also really enjoyed that discussion. Sorry, I'm just jumping in yet, but I did love Janeway's comment when she's like, sometimes extension is the natural end point of evolution.
00:10:24
Jen
Hmm.
00:10:24
red23
You know, something we don't have to go into now, but yes, it's just part of my,
00:10:28
Jen
Hmm.
00:10:29
El Platypo
and it's it's such It's such a weird one with the Prime Directive for Star Trek because it seems such an artificial line to draw. of will only help folk when they became become capable of actually spacefaring and warp travel and not until that point no way and it's I understand the logic behind it but it feels difficult to imagine it being employed when in in so many instances you know you see a sentient race, you see potential, you see all of the art and science and artifice and courage and effort that a race coming from its cradle and you know trying to develop and continue means by implication
00:11:22
El Platypo
It just feels difficult to imagine that being so starkly held to.
Work Ethics and Professional Anecdotes
00:11:27
El Platypo
it um I don't know. I love, love, love Star Trek and the subtlety with which it approaches topics. In seeing it sort of drawn so starkly in this one, it's a very weird one, isn't it? I don't know. It just sort of prompted that in me, amusing on it.
00:11:42
red23
Yeah, well, I forgot actually about that um line, but maybe by 2400 or whenever the set, people have learned the law of unintended consequences. So um they maybe things would be better if they stepped in, but it's maybe more easier to rationalize.
00:11:55
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:12:01
red23
Well, they could just pretend we were never here.
00:12:02
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:12:03
red23
And then their progress or evolution would have carried on.
00:12:04
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:12:08
El Platypo
Yeah, it's.
00:12:09
Jen
I mean, it's for their own protection as I understand it, isn't it?
00:12:13
red23
Yeah.
00:12:13
Jen
It's because they um potentially might not be ready for that kind of technology and they might destroy themselves with it.
00:12:16
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:12:23
El Platypo
No, I understand I'm aware of that argument. it just
00:12:32
El Platypo
and I also understand and acknowledge the unintended consequences rule, although I don't actually know it myself, which is a bit annoying. um
00:12:41
red23
Well, I'm not sure if there's a law, but I know that people are always implementing something, hoping to do something good, something that happens because they think it's true.
00:12:41
El Platypo
ah
00:12:48
El Platypo
Yeah, yeah, but it just almost, you know, to to go back to the pretend we were never there thing, it almost draws the line of moral responsibility in that universe that you're morally responsible if you can't pretend you weren't there, which doesn't feel like it does justice, so they're clearly very moral drivers of many of the characters you come across in Star Trek.
00:13:13
El Platypo
Get there.
00:13:13
red23
I do think it's hard for them to scratch it, yeah.
00:13:13
El Platypo
I'm being different. It's completely okay to say, Jamie, you've completely misunderstood the Prime Directive.
00:13:21
Jen
No, no, I don't think you have at all. I think that's the whole, ah I mean, that's one of like the major themes throughout all Star Trek seasons is um the difficulty of it, not not just to stick to, but whether it should be there and
00:13:30
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:13:37
Jen
there's so many negative outcomes to just not having one and just interfering whenever and wherever they like but that doesn't mean that there's not a whole load of negative ones to having it as well so I just think it's a really um difficult rule to have and and where do they draw the line and they obviously chose that line on well when they have warp capability that's when we um contact them but
00:13:40
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
00:14:00
Jen
you know, is a bit of an arbitrary line, but then where else, what else can you draw it at? I mean, is there a better line? I do think it's a great um like discussion topic though.
00:14:12
red23
Nice.
00:14:13
El Platypo
It's a great choice.
00:14:15
red23
Well, Janie, you've already thrown in something, but was that your one of your top moments, or do you want to add something here for your round?
00:14:16
Jen
thanks
00:14:24
El Platypo
Oh me, no I'd like tos go to go in a completely opposite direction.
00:14:26
red23
Okay, very good.
00:14:28
El Platypo
I think, given the company we're in, can I just point out that we have completely been misfocusing our attention this episode? Gold helmet! I'm sorry, but like given given the fact that the first time I think Jenny came to Spain, the very first thing she did was to message Red Gold about the fact that we saw Spandau Ballet going gold. We had enemies with gold helmets on this who are the enemy race of robots. I just wanted to focus on that because it was like one of the most Doctor Who-y things in a very Doctor Who episode.
00:15:01
El Platypo
The fact that she basically showed the antagonist robot side by showing they have a different colored helmet.
00:15:10
Jen
Thank
00:15:10
El Platypo
I just loved that. ah um And I loved the fact they were gold. I thought they were massively fabulous.
00:15:16
red23
Um, I had a question. Wow. I don't know. Oh yes.
00:15:20
Jen
you.
00:15:20
red23
So for the people that might not be familiar, can you tell us a little bit about Dr. Who?
00:15:25
El Platypo
ah Doctor Who is a classic, some might say the classic British science fiction series, TV series, I should say.
00:15:28
red23
I might say.
00:15:37
El Platypo
and the premise is that a time-traveling doctor ah from an alien race basically travels backwards and forwards through time in a police box called the TARDIS, which on the inside is enormously bigger than it is on the outside, and is basically a mobile space spaceship come time machine. And Doctor Who as a series is about, frankly, the adventures of Doctor Who. and it generates a premises of thousands upon thousands upon thousands of absolutely incredible characters um among which are the villains and so you may have heard of the Daleks with their catchphrase of exterminate or and these I frankly think are absolutely incredible and terrifying the weeping angels who are a race of animate statues who are wholly
00:16:23
red23
No.
00:16:34
El Platypo
wholly indestructible but can only move when they're not being looked at so it leads to some unbelievably atmospheric episodes where you find the protagonist in situations where the light is flickering on and out and these episodes are absolutely terrifying as you sort of see freeze frames of the aid of the weeping angels as they come across the main characters which is absolutely terrifying honestly youtube weeping angels and prepared to have the socks scared off you um sorry jenny your hands leapt up
00:17:06
red23
Oh, Jenny, yes.
00:17:07
Jen
Can I interject a question that just occurs to me now? Now, which came first? The weeping angels in Doctor Who or those little ghosties in Super Mario?
Doctor Who's Influence and Nostalgia
00:17:18
Jen
Was that the same? Equally scary.
00:17:20
El Platypo
i think i think the ghost is actually
00:17:22
El Platypo
sure
00:17:25
red23
Amazing question. um And you've always convinced me to want to watch Doctor Who now. from that description. The one word I had to learn very quickly I guess when I got to the UK was TARDIS because people are always describing a tiny room that seems bigger than it is or a closet where you can fit in tons of stuff that you wouldn't expect from TARDIS.
00:17:33
El Platypo
Mmm.
00:17:43
Jen
Yeah, that's basically become an actual new word in itself now due to not do hasn't it?
00:17:49
red23
I think so yeah.
00:17:50
Jen
Have you never watched any of it?
00:17:52
red23
I have seen it but I don't want to insult anyone but I think it's one of these things where hey maybe I should try again b I'd heard so much about it, and then I watched it, but without any of the nostalgia, so watching it as an adult. And I was like, this, and I rewatched a lot of American TV, and I was like, the production values of the show are terrible.
00:18:16
Jen
um
00:18:16
red23
Sorry.
00:18:17
Jen
Yeah, they are, they are.
00:18:17
El Platypo
and And that's why this slightly tacky bunch of villains were so re reminiscent of it.
00:18:23
red23
Yeah, fair enough.
00:18:24
Jen
I think it is a lot of nostalgia, like, um growing up with it.
00:18:26
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:18:29
Jen
Did you watch, well, did you watch the sort of older ones, the original ones, like 25 years ago?
00:18:32
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:18:34
red23
No, I think I was like visiting someone for Christmas or something and the...
00:18:38
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:18:38
red23
I think it was like a David Tennant? What was that?
00:18:41
Jen
Okay, so then, it might be worth watching one of the old ones, like, um
00:18:41
red23
What was his name? Okay. okay
00:18:45
Jen
it would have seriously aged, like, really badly. But, ah like, it was um one of these things growing up where it just was the most terrifying villain, villain noise in the world, the Daleks, Nurek Nid.
00:19:00
El Platypo
oh yeah erk charbo
00:19:02
Jen
There was something about their voice. um I don't know what sort of, what device they used to create this, like, synthesized, exterminate voice.
00:19:09
El Platypo
anyone
00:19:10
Jen
But, oh, it was scary.
00:19:11
El Platypo
I'll try I'll try and get a youtube YouTube clip of it so I can play it over I can play it over the the Tanoi as it were at some stage to this episode oh
00:19:19
red23
Okay.
00:19:20
Jen
Also, the original um theme music was friggin awesome.
00:19:24
El Platypo
so good yeah
00:19:25
red23
Oh, so does it was a change all the time with each new...
00:19:26
Jen
Very good. Well, it is still the same really, but it doesn't, ah like the tone of it is slightly different, like they sort of vaguely change it.
00:19:35
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:19:37
red23
Okay.
00:19:39
Jen
But anyway.
00:19:40
red23
Okay. Well, I mean, Jamie's description and your endorsement means perhaps I will give it a go.
00:19:41
Jen
you
00:19:44
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:19:46
red23
I mean, I think you have a good point. I should watch some of the older stuff because a then I won't be so put off by either. ah I'll expect the production of values to be less, but it will manage my expectations a bit better.
00:20:01
Jen
yeah Yeah. And just it just to add, I mean, I have to say, I'm not really into it now. Like, for me, it was very much, yeah, a kid growing up thing.
00:20:09
red23
Okay.
00:20:10
Jen
Whereas I think Jay, you quite like the module ones, don't you?
00:20:14
red23
Well, while Jay is looking, in case, oh, try to play it, let's see what happens, because playing something doesn't always work.
00:20:16
El Platypo
i have found I have found it, do you want to hear it?
00:20:22
El Platypo
Hang on.
00:20:24
red23
It's like, if you're sharing a screen, sometimes you have to share the...
00:20:27
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:20:30
red23
Oh, you've got it on your phone, I think.
00:20:37
red23
like that That is, I mean, that's pretty creepy.
00:20:37
Jen
No, no, no, you don't, yeah, the the audio quality is not, yeah.
00:20:40
El Platypo
It's yeah, it doesn't do it justice though. Yeah.
00:20:44
red23
But ah I won't look it up. um So moving on to me, I guess. Still near the other beginning, but I did really enjoy the opening
Episode Analysis: Creative Choices and Character Dynamics
00:20:53
red23
sequence. So we had the whole point of view of this robot on the operating table for once, once in a better word.
00:20:56
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:20:59
red23
And it was like a play on that whole, I mean, the only other time you see that kind of scene, well, I don't watch a lot of movies, I watch a lot of TV, but is if someone is like having a near death experience or they're in the hospital or people you know like they're being that's when you kind of get that similar perspective of looking out at people um but it had that funky little robotic symbols along the bottom and then everyone was it was kind of again i felt like i was paying homage to something that i don't know because they were the characters were really close and looking in and
00:21:12
Jen
Thank you.
00:21:29
red23
sometimes there's like a little bit of comedy like Tuvok and Jamie would like move up and look at each other and move back down like on either side of Balana and I really enjoyed it even if I didn't get all the references but um I just thought it was um interesting and wasn't it black and white?
00:21:34
El Platypo
ah sister
00:21:46
red23
Am I making that up? Hmm maybe it was. Do you remember?
00:21:49
Jen
Mm-hmm, it was.
00:21:50
red23
Yeah it was okay.
00:21:50
El Platypo
Yeah. Chen, did you just put a hand up?
00:21:54
red23
Now she's covering her violinic.
00:21:56
Jen
Accidentally.
00:21:57
red23
but
00:21:58
Jen
No, it's a long, boring... I press mute to have a bite of chocolate, and then and then when Red asked me a question, I tried to unmute and I put my hand up by accident.
00:22:12
Jen
Please, couldn't you?
00:22:12
red23
ah Jamie's also trying to have a bite of chocolate. Do you guys, did you not eat today or something?
00:22:17
Jen
ah Sorry, sorry, Red.
00:22:17
red23
Let's go. Oh yes, the new contract and running around to get beer.
00:22:22
Jen
Yeah, and the new contract is not nine to five, it's nine to six.
00:22:26
red23
Oh my god.
00:22:26
Jen
Oh, I know, outrageous.
00:22:29
red23
ah Okay, I have some questions for me. I'll save them for after this because we kind of, um would I really like that I just, oh yes, so baby up.
00:22:32
El Platypo
system
00:22:36
El Platypo
I have a question. How long is this shift in a Star Trek bridge?
00:22:42
Jen
I have often wondered that.
00:22:42
red23
I think we have found that out, but I forgot.
00:22:45
El Platypo
Sorry, I was prompted by Janice.
00:22:50
red23
But let me quickly wrap up my point because I think I can combine, I can combine two there.
00:22:51
El Platypo
Hmm, sorry, sorry.
00:22:53
Jen
Hmm.
00:22:54
red23
But yes, so I really enjoy that opening sequence and it ends with the reveal of this robot on the kind of bed. But we see it like on a station monitor or something or like in one.
00:23:02
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:23:05
red23
um And later on, but I'll just say, no, this robot has a six pack. So like, do they need to do that? But when later on when we see Balana opening up his stomach area, I noticed he has a very well defined six pack. So I thought that was a curious touch. That's all I have to say. um
00:23:25
El Platypo
Sex sells red.
00:23:26
Jen
strange yes yes i was just thinking about um the six pack comment maybe uh they were designed based on their builders by the creators and all the creators were super fit
00:23:26
El Platypo
Sex sells. That's all I'm saying.
00:23:27
red23
Does a robot need a six pack? That is the question. So moving back to you, Jenny. Are you ready for your next point?
00:23:47
red23
Oh, yeah.
00:23:50
red23
That's success.
00:23:50
El Platypo
Pantene possessed.
00:23:55
El Platypo
and i was I was about to react to that because I was like, maybe they were based on builders and I was like, do they typically have six packs in your experience? I mean, this isn't the Diet Coke advert.
00:24:06
Jen
Just to clarify, builders is the name that the robots give their creators. Yes, no not your standard um British rookie builder.
00:24:13
El Platypo
Bricky.
00:24:16
Jen
Not to, you know, say anything derogatory about UK builders.
00:24:19
El Platypo
I mean, they're fab, let's be honest.
00:24:23
red23
I did see a really mean tweet today about builders, physiques.
00:24:26
El Platypo
What?
00:24:28
red23
I don't know if I want to repeat it, but it was along these lines of, if it's such a demanding job, how can you put on weight, basically?
00:24:30
Jen
well
00:24:34
red23
But I phrased it in a slightly more palatable way.
00:24:37
El Platypo
Wowzers. That is proper harsh.
00:24:40
red23
Yeah, I thought it was...
00:24:41
Jen
Okay, I'm gonna...
00:24:43
red23
Why people are critiquing things that have nothing to do with them, I'll never understand. Jenny, over to you.
00:24:47
Jen
Well,
00:24:49
red23
As we do our show about Star Trek, when no one asks for our opinion.
00:24:53
Jen
um well I wanted to hear your opinion, Red.
00:24:54
El Platypo
ah
00:24:56
Jen
Annuals, Jacob. There we are. ah So, i it's a really minor moment, ah but I just thought it was quite a little funny scene between so of Paris and Chiquote, sort of having this little macho tension between them quite early on, um where Chiquote still says, oh, we don't want to new lose another shot at all, Tom. you know ah And this is all ended when Janeway says some kind of comment um in a certain tone of gentlemen, a bit like, now then gentlemen.
00:25:31
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:25:31
Jen
That's quite enough of that. um I don't know if it was meant to be a comic, but I thought it was quite funny.
00:25:34
El Platypo
I found a burger.
00:25:37
red23
Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that story, Jamie. I was going to say, I also enjoyed that moment because I think I just, when people have conflict, I just brush over it. Oh my God, that's not real. Whatever reason. But, um, and TV, um, or like they can be adults, they can get over it. But there is, this is still the stage where there is that conflict between Cote and Paris and they're going to rub each other the wrong way. Well, I think quite still a little bit longer.
00:26:01
El Platypo
Yeah, that was a... I mean, could I put my hand up and ask about this? Because that felt a little bit unusual and contrived to me, because I haven't seen Paris and Jacoté arguing in that way before. um
00:26:17
red23
Well, if we go right back to the pilot, I think one of them saves the other one's life. And then they always, I feel like they have to pay the other one back. ah contrary that monoousity No, but because there's so much and andos animosity antagonismism between them.
00:26:27
El Platypo
Yeah, not not in that sort of way.
00:26:34
Jen
Yeah, I think originally there was genuine, um you know, animosity, and then they sort of, when one of them saved the other's life and vice versa, they they sort of, and they realised they had to work together, they got over it, but because they'd already established that kind of relationship, it seems to have morphed into like a sort of, a bit more of a jokey, lighthearted,
00:26:34
El Platypo
Maybe.
00:26:37
red23
Yeah.
00:26:37
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:26:51
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:26:54
Jen
And I just, it reminded me of a colleague once told me, we'd been on a call, a work call with a couple of like, you know, leaders in the field, a couple of like older gentlemen.
00:26:55
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:27:13
Jen
And we we both of us, she was a ah female sort of senior leadership team type person.
00:27:13
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:27:16
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:27:20
Jen
and We both just sort of sat quietly and just let them get on with it whilst they talked at each other for for an hour.
00:27:26
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:27:30
Jen
and And then afterwards, she was talking to me about it. And it was one of these calls where like nothing is a bit as waste of time, you know, like nothing productive happens.
00:27:39
red23
yeah
00:27:40
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:27:41
Jen
um And yeah, she used this term, which I had never heard before, I thought was hilarious and I've never forgotten it. She just said, oh, well, you know, it's just
00:27:48
red23
Yeah.
00:27:50
Jen
bit of willy wagging going on. What the hell is willy wagging? You know, when you've got a couple of men waggled at willies.
00:27:57
El Platypo
two Two men posturing at each other. Yeah.
00:28:00
red23
Jamie's like, I know instantly.
00:28:02
El Platypo
Well, that's a bit harsh.
00:28:03
Jen
yeah
00:28:04
red23
No, I'm not saying you do any wagging, but it sounds like you understood it very.
00:28:11
Jen
Sorry to all men. I know it's a bit offensive.
00:28:15
El Platypo
Sorry. No, no, that's.
00:28:15
red23
Honestly, to be fair, i as someone who hates talking up at meetings, that is like my preference. That is probably not good for my career, to just let Willy Wagon go on and uninterrupted.
00:28:20
Jen
okay
00:28:23
El Platypo
Oh, red.
00:28:28
Jen
Yeah, I'm sure a much, you know, stronger, assertive woman could have ah jumped in there and done something about it. I just let them get on with it, I'm afraid.
00:28:39
red23
That was a funny phrase though. I hope I never forget. um Okay, so what? Oh yeah, I was like, anything to add to? Oh yeah, nevermind, sorry, I'm just speaking out nonsense phrases. um Anything else about to Power of Such A Goatee, otherwise Jamie, we can go to you.
00:28:58
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:28:58
Jen
Nope.
00:28:58
red23
Jamie, next favorite moment comedic scene.
00:29:01
El Platypo
So i I found this actually really, for what was quite a sort of Star Trek-y Star Trek episode, I found this quite a chilling moment though, in that it was quite obvious that the plot had been weaved in such a way as to prevent Balana asking how the builders had ceased to be. And then when she finally gets them, there's that silence and then the robot says in the voice that seems reserved across science fiction franchises for ah robots that seem benign but turn out to be genocidal, just turns around and goes, we terminated them.
00:29:43
Jen
Why did you sound Irish?
00:29:44
red23
yes
00:29:44
El Platypo
ah
00:29:44
red23
but i shouldn't laugh because it was it was chiing with
00:29:46
El Platypo
Yeah, but it's it's also hilarious because the sort of spoof on Star Trek that is Seth Green's The Orville has a character in it called Isaac who has the exact same tone of voice as as the robots in every single scene and it just seems to have been adopted ah but it is also absolutely chilling as you sort of find out oh so these you know theoretically just trying to help themselves out of a bad situation robots are possibly bad guys or baddies
00:30:09
red23
Yes, sorry, I shouldn't laugh because it was chilling. Yeah, because it also is so so it's more of a contrast.
00:30:17
El Platypo
Yeah.
In-depth Character Analysis of Balana
00:30:19
Jen
Did anyone else think that Jamie's, what's the word? Imitation that was Irish. Was that just me?
00:30:32
red23
Jamie, can you do it again, please?
00:30:33
Jen
but
00:30:34
El Platypo
We terminated them.
00:30:37
Jen
That was totally Irish.
00:30:38
red23
Yeah, that was a little bit...
00:30:40
El Platypo
I guess it's an American, but anyway.
00:30:43
red23
That's true. I mean, but yes, it was pretty chilling. I mean, but we could, well, I have a couple of points about the robots, but they were so black and white, and which makes them very chilling.
00:30:55
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:30:56
red23
They just follow their programming as the one line was, like no thought whatsoever.
00:31:02
Jen
Mm.
00:31:04
red23
Um, anything else you want to say about the silver headed robots?
00:31:09
El Platypo
I mean, ah hey, wow.
00:31:10
red23
Right now.
00:31:14
El Platypo
Ouch. No, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't vastly taken with them as a bunch of Star Trek baddies go.
00:31:28
El Platypo
like they They didn't seem as as painted in as much colour as some folk that you come across later in the series, I think, who are also cyborg or cybernetic life and also antithetical to um most other life forms.
00:31:46
red23
Yeah. yeah they was range bird Sorry Jamie, I didn't mean to imply you shouldn't speak but I was trying to say you don't have to make up something if you don't have something ready is basically what I was trying to say.
00:31:47
El Platypo
I speak, of course, of the Ferengi.
00:31:50
Jen
Bye.
00:31:57
El Platypo
Oh, no, no, don't worry. Don't you worry. I will happily make something up.
00:32:00
red23
You don't have to yeah because I think they're the ones to get through.
00:32:02
El Platypo
I feel obligated.
00:32:05
red23
ah So moving on to my second point I guess and I think maybe Jenny you had something to say about this as well but I was really struck by how emotional and how beloved I was about saving this robot from the beginning and how she seemed to empathize or this robot story really resonated.
00:32:19
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:32:26
red23
She was like really emotional about saving this robot's life and ah something else that I've read is, I guess, I think it always depends maybe when you're watching or what phase in your life you're watching, but Belanna is like a strong half-kingon character, but then when she goes emotional, it's like really vulnerable and you're like, oh my god, she's like really.
00:32:42
Jen
Mm.
00:32:45
red23
oh And I wasn't quite sure um why she adopted this like very, what's the word, she was anthropomorphizing this robot because she described like bleeding artery and he's about to die and I mean, why not just like, he's about to run, it's about to run out of power. i mean Um, and I mean, she was super emotional from the start, which I found a bit, um, intriguing. And she didn't question anything that he told her like, um, at all. So obviously it doesn't pay off necessarily for her because she has this full, uh, well, she gets kidnapped by this robot and forced to do all these things for this robot. And, um,
00:33:29
red23
ah And in the end she has to kind of overcome all this emotion and she finally kills this prototype that she kills at the end. But really at the beginning I was really struck by how emotional she was and in passion she was to fight for this robot's life. And I'm trying to say I didn't understand but I just, I guess, didn't quite get it.
00:33:50
Jen
Yeah, I felt the same. I felt like there was some kind of acting choice that I um would be, as you said, intrigued to know the sort of rationale behind it. um because you know usually she's ah you know she has that Klingon half to her character and so she's very, she's usually the one saying we should fight back.
00:34:08
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:34:12
Jen
We should not trust anyone and um it she was so emotional right from the start.
00:34:12
red23
Yeah.
00:34:12
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:34:18
Jen
um It reminded me of one episode which I absolutely love, which is where she gets like separated into her Klingon half and her human half.
00:34:25
red23
Yes, exactly.
00:34:26
Jen
And her human half is so,
00:34:26
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:34:28
Jen
um
00:34:29
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:34:29
Jen
like vulnerable and very emotional and I mean I'm sure we'll get to that I love that episode because I think she plays that really well ah it was almost like she was playing that and I wondered what brought that on really um it was so emotional it sort of I wondered if they were going for some kind of um like comparison between you know this is her creation in the same way a woman
00:34:30
red23
Yeah.
00:34:56
Jen
ah gives birth to a child, you know, the joy of creation. And maybe that's what they were trying to show through an engineer's an engineer's creation rather than the creation of life.
00:35:08
red23
That is a very interesting point. Yeah, because and but's oneing that is one good explanation.
00:35:11
Jen
I don't know though, I just, yeah, mystery.
00:35:12
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:35:19
red23
I hadn't thought of that. But what do you think, Jamie?
00:35:22
El Platypo
Yeah, I like that. No, I like that. I love that explanation, actually. I think also one of the things about Bolana is her fierceness doesn't just come through and fight back in every situation. She just, I get the impression she, as a character, holds emotions fiercely. So when she feels empathy for this race, who you know, face extinction, and there's also that touch point with her other passion of engineering, I think it sort of makes sense that she reacts in the way that she does so fiercely and with such engagement because she is also a fiercely loyal friend as sort of evidenced throughout. So yeah I think it sort of chimes actually.
00:36:06
red23
Yeah, I think maybe another, I mean, I think this ties into a point I have later on, but I might not have a lot of points to answer, maybe I'll just throw it over here. But she's also a problem solver, and I wonder how much of this was because she really wanted the opportunity to solve the problem and prove herself and or take on this challenge versus help the robot. But I i think it was, At that, in the early stages, I got the impression I was to help the robot.
00:36:34
Jen
Hmm.
00:36:38
red23
um Yeah, so just the research.
00:36:39
Jen
Hmm.
00:36:40
El Platypo
and and And I think Balana has a natural empathy for the outcast, or the push-upon given her expulsion from Starfleet Academy, doesn't she?
00:36:48
red23
Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
00:36:50
El Platypo
Sorry, I haven't just been doing the thing I do where sometimes I just repeat everything someone said because I blanked out, have I?
00:36:53
Jen
Nope.
00:36:57
red23
No, you said something completely new and original.
00:36:57
Jen
no
00:36:59
Jen
Yep, well done.
00:36:59
red23
ah So I'm sure.
00:37:00
El Platypo
Okay, I just thought I'd check in there because you guys were both giving me a funny look because I was dwelling on this one a bit too long.
00:37:04
red23
Oh no, it's more because I was thinking of what you said.
00:37:07
Jen
I was, yeah, I was thinking about what you said. Interesting point.
00:37:12
red23
That is true. She probably would. And i yeah, I would also do that for different reasons, but that I think helps explain her behaviour. Right. Jenny, number three of your...
00:37:26
Jen
Ah, well. um I think I have two more left too. I mean, this was just like a half form of thought, so I don't know how interesting it is.
00:37:35
red23
Great. I have a few of those.
00:37:36
Jen
But I guess I feel like maybe it fits better into themes, but it's just, it was a lot of like um killing our creator kind of moments, you know, like Bulana eventually has to kill the prototype, builders tried to kill their creations.
00:37:52
red23
Oh, yes.
00:37:52
Jen
And then the other way around, the robots eventually killed their creators. um So yeah, I feel like that's a bit of a theme running through.
00:38:05
Jen
That's all I'd say on that really.
00:38:05
red23
Yeah, I have to now think about that. That's why I've got quacks. I'm like, yeah, that's a really good point, but it was actually quite a lot like going on, so it's hard to follow it all. so
00:38:15
Jen
I guess I like the cyclical, you know, nature of it. It's got that resolution in a sort of depressing way. ah
00:38:24
red23
That's true.
00:38:25
Jen
And she's the honest finishing what the builders started.
00:38:29
red23
Oh, yeah. um Jamie, anything to add there?
Humor and Professional Reflections
00:38:36
red23
Jenny, I think you just blew our minds, so I'll move on to the next point.
00:38:40
Jen
oh
00:38:43
red23
Jamie, you're up.
00:38:46
El Platypo
Oh yes, I am indeed. So I'd just like to take a moment to appreciate the fact that we get to the far future, we get to a stage where people are living on the edge of space, the void staring back at them as they don't miss a beat looking into its embrace. And at the early hours of the morning, with all the technology available to folk for stimulants, drugs, things to keep them awake, we still get coffee snobbery.
00:39:14
red23
hahaha
00:39:17
El Platypo
There's something deeply reassuring about the fact that when faced with an existential dilemma and something that cuts to the core of her being as a problem on a number of intersection lines, the Lana can still find the time to be mean about Neelix's coffee, which, again, After so many things Neelix had done to make me feel that like I was being harsh on him, I'm using this artificially, I don't think I've been harsh on him at all, um he still can't do one of the very few culinary things that even I can do and make a decent pot of coffee.
00:39:52
El Platypo
She ruined his coffee, frankly, and he clearly doesn't have any survival instinct either as he denied her more coffee.
00:39:55
red23
Oh. Yes, that one didn't seem quite brave.
00:40:02
Jen
His very ungrateful considering how he'd helped her was a whole Sultan allergy as well.
00:40:03
red23
um
00:40:10
red23
Yes.
00:40:10
El Platypo
Yeah. Who would have thought you needed salt for an omelette? Gah.
00:40:15
red23
But I thought he raised an important point that we face it today, society guys, which was
00:40:20
El Platypo
we did Yes, we do need salt for an omelette.
00:40:22
red23
which is the the, I mean, I'm hugely generalizing now, but the tech bros, I want to only sleep four hours at night because I want to be brilliant to get so much done. And the reality, which is we all need sleep, otherwise we can't function. so um
00:40:37
El Platypo
How much brilliance happens after an entire week of only sleeping four hours a night?
00:40:41
red23
I don't think a lot.
00:40:41
El Platypo
I'm just asking for a friend.
00:40:42
red23
I mean, I, yes, I,
00:40:43
Jen
you You're cognitively impaired. like it It makes no logical sense to have a lifestyle like that. You will be less efficient. you
00:40:50
red23
I think there are some people, a small minority, that genetically can survive with less sleep. like apparently Margaret Thatcher was one. And I was like, Oh, that's ridiculous. But I'm reading this book now. And it seems like oh that is actually possibly true. And you hear of other cases of people that can survive in four months of sleep at night. But I think of all those interns at this low, I mean, low level, but high earning people in banks or whatever that are forced to work until like 2am every morning. I'm like, there must be so many mistakes in their work. I mean, it's like horrifying to think of about, I think.
00:41:24
Jen
Yeah, and actually how overloaded doctors are, because I mean, you know, life or death.
00:41:29
red23
Yes, doctors, another good one. And they are actually trying to, sorry.
00:41:35
Jen
No, yeah, we make the same point. I think that's the life or death situation. And if they make a mistake there, you know, someone dies potentially.
00:41:42
red23
Yes, I mean, when my dad was specialising, he would, I remember him doing these 36-hour shifts, what was that? And I'm like, I think even at 12, I was like, this is dumb.
00:41:51
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:41:52
red23
Like, this doesn't make any sense.
00:41:52
Jen
nine
00:41:55
red23
But I did like, as you said, um But then he was like, yeah, I miss the salt because I was too tired to notice. I realised that was missing. And then Balana goes to sleep. And then she has that moment, which I think we could probably already do. She immediately has a brainwave and jumps out of bed.
00:42:10
El Platypo
but
00:42:12
red23
Which I enjoyed.
00:42:12
Jen
in her pajamas.
00:42:14
red23
And her pajamas.
00:42:17
red23
um Great.
00:42:18
El Platypo
I mean, I would like to point out that HR should have a word there because cause that's clearly inappropriate and Neelix is put in a very awkward situation and doesn't do anything to help himself by, oh no, not Neelix, the doctor.
00:42:22
red23
She was running around in her pajamas.
00:42:31
red23
the doctor yeah um okay well i managed to slip in one of my gifts so thank you jamie um jamie back to you i think you said you had least one more
00:42:31
Jen
That's the doctor, yeah.
00:42:33
El Platypo
The doctor doesn't do anything to help himself.
00:42:45
Jen
Yep, I have one more and I'm afraid It's just a slight, just minor criticism of Ilana.
00:42:54
El Platypo
GASP
00:42:55
Jen
Yes, I'm afraid so.
00:42:56
red23
Okay.
00:42:56
Jen
Even though I i do...
00:42:58
red23
I have a comeback. So, but go ahead.
00:43:00
Jen
Oh, do you? Excellent.
00:43:01
red23
I mean, as in I have another moment.
00:43:01
Jen
Good. Good. I, you know, I... do love the actress and I love the character so this is a minor thing but she had the whole like one of the most dramatic um and and overdone lines like and the delivery I just felt a little bit of improvement she had the whole like my god what have I done line and she just didn't do enough with it should have been way
00:43:30
El Platypo
Hmm.
Robot Design and Comedic Elements
00:43:31
Jen
melodramatic and um you know it's um it's that sort of uh giving off vibes of uh frankenstein you know um where you know my god what have I done just needs to be said drama
00:43:43
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:43:51
red23
I have to say, yeah, I didn't buy it when she said it. That was not her strongest delivery. I have to agree with you. But I did like the scene when Boyja was under attack and she was on the pre-lawship. And she doesn't say anything, but she's I think she can watch the attack on the view screen or whatever. And you can just see everything sinking in, like the realization that she's made a huge mistake. So I liked that.
00:44:17
Jen
And.
00:44:19
red23
I thought the acting there was very good. the acting when you she said that line that yeah was not quite correct. Oh sorry I want to cough.
00:44:34
red23
Jamie do you have any comments on her acting or those moments or anyone else's acting skill for that matter?
00:44:40
El Platypo
Oh, no. Gosh, everyone on Star Trek is clearly a better actor than I. I don't agree with that. I don't know if I was looking quizzical or something like that. I didn't particularly have strong feelings against the comment as as being made, I think. yeah
00:44:59
red23
No problem. um Jamie, do you have another point?
00:45:04
El Platypo
I do, yes.
00:45:05
red23
Great.
00:45:06
El Platypo
um So everyone seems to, in what I didn't feel was a particularly serious episode, have gone with very serious things. So I'm going to be the antithesis of this and say, I love the fact that the sort of dramatically sinister alien robots have Iron Man hand lightning bolt guns ah which if if you look to the Iron Man in the future Marvel movies looks like an almost direct take off of the weapons that they have where they just fire things from the palm of their hands a lot Iron Man and I just love that parallel I like how you know science fiction sort of recycles these little things I don't know if that's you'd call that an easter egg to this episode of Star Trek in Iron Man
00:45:36
Jen
Thank
00:45:48
El Platypo
But I kind of like it. I kind of like it.
00:45:51
red23
It's fun to see those kind of little similarities and wonder, oh did that person all that visual effects person I grew up watching Star Trek or, um, definitely.
00:45:58
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:46:00
red23
And while, I mean, while we're talking about the robots, I have a few little things to say about them, but, um, all their visual appearance, really.
00:46:00
Jen
you.
00:46:05
El Platypo
Ooh.
00:46:08
red23
But I, I suddenly, when I was watching, I like i'm halfway through, I was like, Oh, it must be awful to act in that mask. I mean, can they see anything up? I mean, maybe they had like kind of meshy eyes or something, but that must have been very difficult, I think.
00:46:18
El Platypo
citizen
00:46:24
El Platypo
And maybe maybe added to the effect that they all gave of moving with a certain robotic awkwardness by making it difficult for the human actors to see.
00:46:34
red23
Yeah. I mean, I like those little robotic movements, but um um also i' still on the robots, because I'm just going to throw in all these points.
00:46:38
Jen
Hmm.
00:46:43
red23
I loved how they were not really into nicknames. So when Milana tried to call unit 394739,
00:46:49
El Platypo
hmm
00:46:50
red23
he just said no.
00:46:52
Jen
i
00:46:53
red23
Computer says no, basically.
00:46:54
El Platypo
yes yes yes yes
00:46:56
red23
And I also loved it when she said something like when they were working in his on the ship. trying to create the prototype. And she was like, cross your fingers. And he held up his fingers and then crossed them with the other hand.
00:47:07
El Platypo
yes yes
00:47:09
Jen
and
00:47:11
red23
I thought that's a good little moment, I guess.
00:47:13
Jen
ah I quite liked the um um kind of touching on Jamie's point as well a bit as well as you all read. um When they did use the sort of Iron Man electricity hand weapon um I found it actually hilarious because the the robots themselves seem very, to use your term of phrase, red low production value.
00:47:36
red23
yes Yes.
00:47:37
El Platypo
Hashtag budget.
00:47:38
red23
The costume was stopped at the neck.
00:47:38
Jen
And then out of nowhere, but then out of nowhere.
00:47:40
El Platypo
Budget. Yeah. And you could see where the costume sort of, you know, came apart with a helmet was on the neck.
00:47:42
Jen
were Yeah, so you've got this like kind of rickety C3PO type hilarious robot in quotation marks.
00:47:48
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:47:52
Jen
And then out of nowhere, um this lightning bolt shoots out of his hand
00:47:57
El Platypo
ah so
00:47:58
Jen
which is a little bit more art markete
00:48:00
red23
Yeah.
00:48:01
Jen
Which, I i guess, the the seemed out of place in and made it quite funny, I thought.
00:48:10
El Platypo
so
00:48:11
Jen
Not sure if that was what they were going for.
00:48:13
red23
But yeah, I think I sat, I was writing some notes, but I saw the, the hand lighting, but it was an alphabet where I wasn't paying 100% attention. and
00:48:26
El Platypo
I mean let's be honest they put a light bulb in the glove and that was their costume.
00:48:32
red23
and Okay, so I guess this is like a, let's call it a free round, cause we might, I think some of us might've reached our limit of, okay.
00:48:38
El Platypo
I have.
00:48:41
Jen
It's all on you, Red.
00:48:41
El Platypo
let's Let's not hide my embarrassment here.
00:48:44
red23
Well, so has Janie. So I think I only have two things.
00:48:48
El Platypo
oh
00:48:48
red23
ah Maybe one of them is back to the robots, but did anyone else find prototype 0-0-0-1 very annoying? Because he just kept being like prototype 0-1-1-1-1 ready for programming. And everyone was like trying to sort out all this stuff.
00:49:01
El Platypo
Yes!
00:49:01
red23
You just kept finding out with the ready for programming. I was like, OK, good.
00:49:05
El Platypo
Oh my goodness, yes.
00:49:07
Jen
I felt like they could have dropped one of the zeros. I mean, I kind of liked that they were, I guess they were just trying to, yeah, a little bit.
00:49:11
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:49:15
El Platypo
Comic releasing.
00:49:17
Jen
And it's just sort of accentuating the fact that this is a like computer program, sort of it's technology, it's not human, all these kinds of things.
00:49:22
El Platypo
Mm-hmm. Mm.
00:49:28
Jen
But yeah, it was it was quite a mouthful for him to repeat several times, wasn't it?
00:49:32
El Platypo
Mm.
00:49:32
Jen
Zero, zero, zero, one.
00:49:33
red23
I mean, I think the whole like getting the prototype power or whatever to work, and that was all great when he came online. It's like amazing. But then he, I mean, obviously was intentional, but he was a little bit annoying because he kept like just asking for programming while everyone was trying to sort out something else.
00:49:48
El Platypo
Yes!
00:49:49
red23
It's like, just calm down.
00:49:50
Jen
Thank
00:49:52
red23
um but This is a very random point and not really to to do a Star Trek, but it's my final point is the power of deadlines.
00:49:56
Jen
you.
00:50:01
El Platypo
Oh
00:50:03
red23
Balana has this crazy deadline to come up with a prototype that they don't even know is possible and she achieves it.
00:50:04
El Platypo
yeah!
00:50:07
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:50:09
red23
ah And I'll think about it, Janeway is always giving her crew deadlines to problem solve these crazy things on its TV, but they, this case, they had like, I don't know, 72 hours to figure out a diversion or...
00:50:19
El Platypo
mmm that's 24 hours too late or something too slow she says fair
00:50:22
red23
Yes. And I was like, I need more deadlines in my life basically, if I want to achieve anything.
00:50:27
Jen
this
00:50:30
red23
So
Themes, Ethics, and Episode Evaluation
00:50:31
El Platypo
mmm
00:50:32
red23
yeah, I don't know how you guys feel about deadlines.
00:50:35
Jen
I like them um but as long as you don't you know give yourself too much grief if you don't hit them like I like the it's more like less of a deadline and more of a goal and then if you nearly hit the goal I'm like great that's the success because if
00:50:52
El Platypo
Yeah, you're just that little bit more advanced than you would have been in it. It's the narrowing of the mind towards the goal that I like and you can speed up a little bit as opposed to being like, I've got to go all sorting day and it's just not got the energy in and everything's slow.
00:50:57
Jen
Exactly.
00:51:07
El Platypo
And other things can crop up if you like, right, I'm going to get this done in an hour. Bang. And that's, that's quite nice. I like that.
00:51:14
Jen
Yeah, and then if you get if you get it done in an hour and 10 minutes, um that's, you know, exactly if you hadn't given yourself the hour deadline.
00:51:14
red23
ah
00:51:18
El Platypo
Yeah. That's also better than it would have been.
00:51:22
red23
Yeah, that's still a win, for sure.
00:51:24
Jen
So yeah, I'm a fan.
00:51:27
red23
Yeah, I think i yeah i just I need outside accountability. So a deadline that someone else is waiting for is the only thing I will get me to do anyway.
00:51:35
El Platypo
Yeah. tell Tell me how the job search is going.
00:51:38
red23
Yes, exactly.
00:51:38
El Platypo
okay
00:51:39
red23
I mean, I'd be brilliant on Starfleet, but in my own life, useless.
00:51:39
Jen
nothing
00:51:43
red23
ah Okay, well moving on to themes. Jenny, do you want to kick us off?
00:51:50
Jen
Yes, I felt like and it might just be my interpretation. There's a bit of like medical ethical theme, which I do you love a bit of medical ethics. um I think I probably already covered it earlier, but it's just about how much to interfere and um you know, should be we be giving life forms the ability to procreate? um And does it matter whether they originally had the ability or we were forgiving themselves with something that's new? And I just think there's like a lot of parallels to that in all different kinds of medicine.
00:52:19
El Platypo
hmm you can hear them from there they're five meters behind me scratching scratching toast
00:52:25
red23
Oh, those are the kittens.
00:52:29
Jen
Ah, yeah!
00:52:31
red23
Yeah, I can hear them from London.
00:52:33
Jen
yeah
00:52:36
red23
No.
00:52:36
El Platypo
I mean, would you would you like to go and sort of be shown my video camera or me to bring one and Lion King Star present it to the podcast?
00:52:41
red23
Oh, please. Yes, of course. Bye.
00:52:44
El Platypo
Okay, this is gonna have to be Leo because he's the only one who'll put up with this.
00:52:48
Jen
So just, you know, and unless we plan to edit this out um for anyone listening, we have three new kittens and they're adorable.
00:52:54
red23
Oh yes, this is not gonna get edited. This is the highlight of the show.
00:52:56
Jen
ah
00:52:57
red23
People can even just imagine these two kids as their own might.
00:53:01
Jen
We might even get one to meow.
00:53:02
red23
Oh, come on.
00:53:03
Jen
You never know.
00:53:04
red23
Come on.
00:53:04
Jen
They do like to meow a lot.
00:53:06
red23
Aw.
00:53:08
Jen
Here comes Leo.
00:53:08
red23
I'll see you tomorrow. It's okay. Aw, proper liking moment.
00:53:12
Jen
yeah
00:53:14
red23
Cute.
00:53:16
Jen
Where's he gone? Bring him back.
00:53:17
red23
Aw, a tail going across screen.
00:53:17
Jen
oh
00:53:20
El Platypo
Yeah, he decided to show his ire by yeah treading all my keys. Sorry if he messed up someone's notes.
00:53:26
red23
I feel like it's already bigger. Oh, I've got to get their face up.
00:53:29
El Platypo
Oh, he's, yeah, I mean, he's gonna be a cat by the son time that you get here tomorrow.
00:53:33
red23
Oh, no, I I can't even just put it...
00:53:33
El Platypo
he's They're growing that fast. Oh, so cute. Hang on, I need to take him back to his friends. They're all missing him. Two seconds.
00:53:41
red23
Okay, no way.
00:53:41
El Platypo
you
00:53:42
red23
ah
00:53:43
Jen
umm I'm sure he would be fine, but Jamie's very attentive to the kittens.
00:53:48
red23
thank you Um...
00:53:49
Jen
They're like the most pampered kittens in the world.
00:53:54
red23
Um... Well, I mean, if you want to continue, I mean, I think yeah there was a strong medical, ethical, moral dilemma.
00:54:03
El Platypo
come
00:54:04
Jen
I don't know if I can go back to medical ethics from kittens. i mean
00:54:07
red23
Okay.
00:54:08
El Platypo
There are two underneath my screen, savaging my earphones, where they dropped.
00:54:12
red23
ah
00:54:14
El Platypo
They've been taken away, but they may start attacking my feet, which is fine. Hello Luna, do you want to be shown to the podcast?
00:54:22
red23
Have your Lion King moment.
00:54:22
El Platypo
Okay.
00:54:24
El Platypo
Ah, Sivanja!
00:54:24
red23
so but
00:54:24
Jen
no
00:54:26
red23
Aww, cute!
00:54:27
Jen
number two
00:54:27
red23
So pretty!
00:54:28
El Platypo
You are so pretty. And let's see the last one, Moia will put up with this, who's a bit like love suffering, it all if everyone else has been through this.
00:54:36
Jen
A bit closer to the camera.
00:54:38
El Platypo
Oh, no, no, she's gotten away from me. She's gotten away.
00:54:41
red23
Aww. Well Jamie, apart from pampering kittens, do you think you have a theme for this episode?
00:54:47
El Platypo
Yes, I was going to actually go away from my theme around pampering kittens, which actually builds on Jenny's last point of medical ethics, how much to interfere in his procreation and life forms right. And my question would be, do we define these robots as life forms?
00:55:07
red23
that
00:55:07
El Platypo
Also, Kat has just done a fart very close to me indeed to revenge Lit- Yes, of course, it's Leo. I understand why you have done this.
00:55:13
Jen
It's revenge. Revenge for picking them up.
00:55:17
El Platypo
Oh god. But um I do like that take on the whole. Is it, you know, AI, Elon Musk style going to extinguish and replace all of us and all of these sorts of things? And I'm a bit like the boundary between what constitutes biological life and at what stage the robots become defined as life as opposed to highly over-programmed prototypes, and that's an interesting one for me.
00:55:47
Jen
Hmm.
00:55:47
El Platypo
I don't know where I fall on it, not because I feel strongly in either direction, but because I don't know, which I don't like admitting to with typical toxic masculine arrogance. um Just, you know, put my hand up and flag myself as that. I'm also being distracted because there's, you know, a cat right next to my computer screen.
00:56:02
red23
um
00:56:07
El Platypo
Oh, a kitten.
00:56:07
red23
Oh, well, um, I wouldn't, I also wouldn't be able to answer. They have to they have life or not. Although I'm inclined to say no, but what I would say is never adjust the programming or the code without reading the notes left behind by the previous developer, because there was absolutely a reason why they weren't supposed to be able to procreate.
00:56:25
El Platypo
yes
00:56:30
red23
Uh,
00:56:30
Jen
This is such a good point, such a good point, Red.
00:56:32
El Platypo
Genocidal tendencies. Yeah, that that should be in the notes of anything you get from that perspective.
00:56:38
red23
Um...
00:56:39
Jen
i I couldn't agree more, and I don't even know and anything half as much about it as you do, Red, but yeah, in my line of work, there are certainly times when certain clients want to take something that's been created, give it to a whole group of other people um without the original
00:56:46
El Platypo
just
00:57:00
Jen
source material and then and then like change it and build on it and oh it's always such a bad idea. So I can appreciate that even with my lips less technical expertise than you.
00:57:09
red23
Yeah.
00:57:14
red23
Well, i ah I guess I have worked in tech. I'm not a developer or coder, but I am aware of the concept of comments that people leave in the code to explain what's going on. And so, yeah, read that before rubbing something out or doing something new. I had kind of two themes actually, but um well, one was like, ah about the like, you know, back to Bologna's drive to help this. It's like, and then the result of that was this kind of very ah dangerous situation that she and Voyager got into. So it's like, I think if you want to help or you feel compelled to help someone or something and work with people, you should know exactly why are you're doing it. Like, is it for yourself or is it for them? And have you thought everything through? Like, um instead of just
00:58:07
red23
I do believe we're going through a phase of the world where everyone just wants to feel good, but it doesn't really worry about whether this one thing actually does good. I'm not saying belong as a 100% good example of that, but I think there's something there. But the other thing was, I mean, we didn't really get to touch on it because there's so much, but just the complete pointlessness of most wars. I mean, these silver robots were fighting against gold robots because their creators or builders had created them, gone extinct like a hundred or whatever years ago, and they were still fighting, which again, they're probably parallels for that on Earth today.
00:58:38
Jen
no
00:58:41
red23
So just a complete pointless.
00:58:42
Jen
hmm for sure yeah i
00:58:47
red23
And Anything else to add before we go to Star Player?
00:58:54
Jen
feel like we've been pretty comprehensive on this episode it was a good one
00:58:56
El Platypo
yeah this is we've done this one top to toe really oh now that is a very very challenging one because i typically tend to come up with the unorthodox one but it tends to be a sort of riff off or against the folk that you guys have chosen i mean yeah i know i know and
00:58:57
red23
Yeah. Okay. Jamie, switching things up here. You're ready to give us your Star Player.
00:59:20
red23
I just noticed that none of us was at $1, so it's kind of like a...
00:59:26
El Platypo
yeah I mean, you've quite clearly picked up on the fact that I'm playing for time, and as kind as you are going to be bothering me to have some time to think about it, I am going to formalise in my head. And I think it's going to be Neelix.
00:59:37
red23
Ah!
00:59:37
El Platypo
I think it's going to be Neelix, because he helped someone enough that they stopped rejecting his coffee, which must be awful, because his cooking is awful. and he actually helped solve a complex problem thereby almost allowing the survival of a race who will conveniently forget his genocidal
00:59:58
red23
So
Closing Remarks and Standout Characters
00:59:59
red23
you managed to pull the, what did you call it?
00:59:59
Jen
Thank you.
01:00:01
red23
The... What is it now? No, not the face of the ashes. The unconventional choice, even with the pressure, but I think it's a well-deserved. The genie.
01:00:04
El Platypo
Phoenix from the ashes
01:00:15
Jen
Yeah, I have to struggle a lot choosing one this time. um ah i um I tricky one. I don't know if, I'm sort of torn between three, I guess.
01:00:32
red23
Ah, that's good.
01:00:32
Jen
of Yeah, like, Balana, obviously, because, you know, she's in most, like, it's mainly about her, this one, isn't it?
01:00:34
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
01:00:41
Jen
She's the main star.
01:00:43
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
01:00:44
Jen
And the thing is, I think, I enjoyed the episode and I think she does a good job, at but I feel like there are later episodes where she really stands out, you know, and she's she's brilliant. So I'm a little bit, um I'm sure about choosing this time around, which makes me kind of lean a little bit towards actually Janeway.
01:00:58
El Platypo
Nelax. all
01:01:00
Jen
No, Janeway, purely because I really enjoy that interaction. That was possibly my favourite scene, that interaction between Heron Bullana at the start. um Or in fact, um because we haven't actually touched upon it yet, the doctor, because he basically um gave Banana the idea for the transfusion of war plasma, which, you know, set the whole thing in motion, which, to be fair, is probably a bad thing at the end of the day, so then I don't really know.
01:01:24
El Platypo
hu Yeah, race will conveniently forget of genocidal robots.
01:01:29
Jen
Exactly, so, um oh god, can I just like pass this one, Red?
01:01:33
red23
Yes, because you've actually, I mean, I'm sorry, you can still choose her if you want, but I i am gonna go with Janeway, because ah not for that first scene, and then we don't see a lot of her in the middle, all but that final scene, where she has so much empathy for Balana, and the fact that Balana had to destroy this creation of hers,
01:01:48
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
01:01:53
red23
And her total lack of blame for what happened because it gets in the end, Janeway did make the call that Bologna could do that.
01:01:56
Jen
so
01:01:59
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:02:00
red23
So that's her responsibility. So she, she just had like so much pity for her and understanding.
01:02:04
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:02:06
red23
And again, I just wish I had a boss like Janeway.
01:02:07
Jen
Hmm.
01:02:07
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:02:10
red23
So that's my star player, but I had forgotten about that.
01:02:11
Jen
Yeah. Me too.
01:02:17
red23
I thought you mentioned Janeway. So thank you, Jenny.
01:02:22
red23
I don't know if that helps you make a choice.
01:02:25
Jen
Oh, do I still have shoes?
01:02:25
red23
You still have to make a choice.
01:02:27
Jen
I thought I got a pass. I thought I was getting it all.
01:02:29
red23
Oh, I thought you made a pause for like two minutes.
01:02:31
Jen
No, like a pass for the episode. i Can I just give, I tell you what, can I choose the rebels?
01:02:34
red23
I'm gonna honor rules so we can give you a pause.
01:02:41
red23
Yes, yeah.
01:02:43
Jen
because um I just enjoyed the overall episode and like the story arc and the background of their robot wars and killing their creators and all this sci-fi drama. And I feel like that would not be possible without the robots. So thank you, robots.
01:03:01
red23
Brilliant. I love that nomination. And it sounds like you guys have some kitties to take care of. So I'm going to play our outgoing jingle. Do not hang up because I need your stuff to upload, but you'll be able to go it in like a minute's time.
01:03:14
Jen
This is such a professional outfit.
01:03:16
El Platypo
Yeah, it's a totally run ship Thanks
01:03:18
red23
ah Thank you to our listeners and see you next week. Bye. See you again when you dance around a little bit as well.
01:03:28
Jen
Adios. revvan
01:03:31
red23
well oh yes ah oh sorry
01:03:57
red23
Well, oh yes, ooh, sorry.