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We watch "Deadlock" (S2 Ep.21)
9 Plays10 days ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Deadlock”, or do we mean Dreadnought? It’s all very confusing, and slightly traumatic when Janeway triggers the self-destruct!.
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.
Theme music by Alain D
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Initial Thoughts
00:00:00
Red D
if it's the right one.
00:00:03
Red D
It's the right jingle, guys.
00:00:04
Jen
Sounds great.
00:00:09
Red D
Jamie is doing his, like, blue steel pose, which is great for us, but doesn't translate that well. It's the audio medium.
00:00:22
Red D
We're just dancing, guys. For this non-video podcast.
00:00:27
El Platypo
Some of us are just talking.
00:00:32
Red D
You're the moderator Jenny so you just tell me when cancel this tune.
00:00:35
Jen
Oh, oh, we could have been here a while. I think, I think now's a good time for a fade out. Jamie's doing the thriller move.
00:00:42
Red D
Oh, moment, Faithson.
00:00:42
Jen
Move from the thriller...
00:00:43
El Platypo
and I'm not doing the throw. I'm doing the T-Rex.
00:00:44
Jen
Yeah, that's Oh, well, it's just also the same as the Michael Jackson thriller video move.
00:00:47
El Platypo
Don't look suspicious.
00:00:52
Jen
It's very good.
00:00:53
Red D
Okay.
00:00:53
Jen
Nice dance move. Right. So welcome. And today we are discussing season two, episode 21, Deadlock, which sounds a lot to me like dreadlaw.
00:01:04
Jen
And when I first saw Deadlock, I thought, oh, yes, it's the one I really like.
00:01:05
Red D
Yes.
00:01:09
Jen
And then I realised that that was Dreadnought.
Summary of 'Deadlock'
00:01:12
Red D
I'm really glad you brought that up Jenny because I saw Deadlock and I was like, wait, is this right?
00:01:12
Jen
Dreadnought. Dreadnought, sorry.
00:01:16
El Platypo
Do you
00:01:17
Red D
Have I chosen the wrong episode?
00:01:17
Jen
yeah
00:01:19
Red D
Like I'm sure we've watched this one already. I'm so confused. So yes.
00:01:22
Jen
Yeah, but it turned out to be quite good one anyway. i just couldn't really remember it as well as Dreadnought.
00:01:29
El Platypo
ah you know I didn't react to this one very well.
00:01:29
Jen
Now.
00:01:32
El Platypo
I didn't put myself engaged.
00:01:32
Jen
Oh.
00:01:33
Red D
Well, that's good because Janie's about to take us into initial reactions. Thanks. ah
00:01:38
Jen
I was but then I saw there was one minute summary in the in the to-do list. So Jamie I don't suppose you want to do a one minute summary?
00:01:47
El Platypo
I mean, Neelix's personality induces crew member to give birth to avoid talking to him as he forces pregnant women to do strenuous labor.
00:01:58
El Platypo
During said labor,
00:02:01
El Platypo
Voyager somehow clones itself in the same place, but invisibly to itself, ah runs into a plasma cloud away from some Vidiens, accidentally manages to merc itself in both dimensions it exists in along with the current one, um and then bunch of people die, and then...
Reactions and Comparisons with Star Trek Movies
00:02:28
El Platypo
ah Somehow it's all magically resolved with you know one Voyager plus a few crew members you know exploding and the other sort of switching dimension, um which somehow pans out okay because Weird is all part of the day at Star Trek, as is the final line of the episode.
00:02:43
Jen
hey
00:02:49
Red D
Very good.
00:02:51
Jen
Well, I thought, um you know, you could probably tell a little bit in your tone that you didn't like this one so much from that one minute summary, I think. Great summary, but, you know.
00:02:58
El Platypo
Yeah, I don't know what it was. like i found the start jarring. Just like, oh great, bang, it's all going off and someone's going to birth and...
00:03:12
El Platypo
Yeah, it wasn't like, you know do you know like a really good, dramatic lot's going on start? The the start of um the new Star Trek movies with Chris Pine, the very first one, that intro, where ships going down and Kirk's father is saving the day and it's dramatic and there's incredible music and there's a bit of an a ability, whereas this just felt like a bit like a building site.
00:03:36
El Platypo
ah um Sorry, red go for it.
00:03:36
Jen
if
00:03:38
Red D
Just a little pushback there on Christopher and Star Trek. But do those movies leave you with questions that will keep you up at night?
00:03:48
Jen
Wait, the the Chris Pine movies?
00:03:51
Red D
Ah.
00:03:51
El Platypo
Yes, many of them. Do I think it's appropriate to clone ah genetically super-engineered soldiers against potential yeah threats to humanity, Ayla Khan?
00:03:53
Red D
Ah,
00:04:01
El Platypo
It's a question that exercises me.
00:04:04
Red D
the right...
00:04:04
Jen
so keeps read I Red... I can't think of it any right now so I want to know what questions kept you off at night Red.
00:04:10
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:04:11
Red D
Well, I'm just alluding to the fact that you're always faced with like making some tough choices when you're watching it, or if you're in the same position, making tough choices, often in a Star Trek episode.
00:04:22
Red D
and But you know, I always have try and offend every Star Trek episode, so I'm sure J.B. is entitled to his opinion.
00:04:31
El Platypo
Well, I'm just saying that no podcast can survive if the response to the material is universally positive.
00:04:31
Red D
Yeah.
00:04:38
El Platypo
There'd be no drama. It would just be us going, oh, I like that so much. Oh, I like that so much too.
00:04:46
Jen
I guy was in the middle. I quite like this one. It wasn't like on my top but it was it was pretty high. like I quite enjoyed it. i always loved the ones where Janeway is all self-sacrificing you know brave and has some great lines and you know also the hair the red the Janeway hair again was just fabulous and
00:05:00
El Platypo
you've got Anyway.
00:05:06
Red D
Oh.
Character Analysis and Recurring Themes
00:05:10
Jen
I do love it.
00:05:10
Jen
I love Janeway hair and there were two hairstyles on two different Janeways so Not so much enough. Anyway, we'll get to that. um I have, moving on to one cool thing. I never have a cool thing because not cool. But this time I do.
00:05:24
Jen
And I stole it from, I believe I stole it from google Google's little AI machine.
00:05:31
El Platypo
Thank you.
00:05:31
Red D
ah
00:05:31
Jen
Because i had a, I was going to put it in my points that it's quite funny how many times Harry Kim dies during Voyager. Like, it's quite a few times, I think. ah And this being one of them, sadly.
00:05:43
Jen
Poor Harry. um So I decided to google how many times it was in total and it not only told me that he was killed on four separate occasions during Voyager's seven seasons but it also told me something quite interesting which is in Deep Space Nine the Chief Chief O'Brien had such a hard time getting killed that he invented a whole O'Brien must suffer sub-genre of Star Trek.
00:06:09
El Platypo
That's amazing!
00:06:10
Red D
Ah, thats that's a bit of backstory that i didn't realize.
00:06:11
El Platypo
i love that.
00:06:15
El Platypo
ah Is he supposed to have been like a really bad person or something? or
00:06:18
Red D
Not a bad person, but um but... I'll have to rewatch Deep Space Knight now, but that kind of... i mean, maybe, Jenny, you can comment. Makes sense. He's always...
00:06:27
Jen
Well that's the thing, I don't remember him dying a lot so I need to rewatch it too.
00:06:31
Red D
I think he must have died once, but maybe in a Next Generation, because...
00:06:34
El Platypo
I don't think it's that he dies. I think that it's like he's put in like prisoner situations of real suffering.
00:06:40
Red D
and
00:06:41
Jen
Oh okay so it's yeah it's not that he dies he's just always getting like tortured and captured and okay yeah that sounds a bit like him.
00:06:47
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:06:53
Jen
Anyway I just thought that was quite quite funny.
00:06:54
El Platypo
agree
00:06:56
El Platypo
No, I love that. That's hilarious.
00:07:00
Jen
And then um any more initial reactions Red?
00:07:04
Red D
um Yes, I guess I was excited because I knew were going to meet Naomi Weldon. There's a little baby that gets born because I love her character as she grows and...
00:07:15
Red D
Wee, she has like... I'm sorry Jamie to say this, but a very sweet friendship with Neelix as she grows up.
00:07:20
Jen
Yeah.
00:07:21
El Platypo
i'm I'm prepared to accept that Neelix might grow as a, you know, sentient being.
00:07:26
Red D
Well, he's the kind of good uncle... godfather character, I think, anyway. um and and But I did notice that, ah well, I would just, of the episode, I was like, wow, this intro teaser is very long.
00:07:37
Red D
And then I checked, it was seven minutes, which I think is extra long.
00:07:41
Jen
yeah
00:07:42
Red D
um But I don't know why, but for some reason, i when this episode gave me goosebumps, because in that moment where Janeway sees herself, that shadow of herself on the the bridge,
00:07:56
Red D
I think it's because forgot on the episode or something. I didn't know what was coming. i I can't really remember now, but I was like, oh my gosh. It gave me goosebumps, which is not a reaction I've had to TV very often.
00:08:06
Jen
Mmm.
00:08:09
Red D
um So I guess I must have had some kind of good in initial reaction to it. So, yeah.
00:08:14
Jen
Mmm. I got a bit, um like, quite surprisingly, a bit, teary-eyed when Harry died. And it wasn't even that of an emotional death.
00:08:22
Red D
Oh.
00:08:22
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:08:24
Jen
It was just, like, flying off into space. So, you know, there's this sort of, oh, no, Harry kind of reaction.
00:08:30
El Platypo
emotional and perhaps you know glasping and him flying off on his own into the great beyond
00:08:37
Jen
Yeah, i think I think that was it. I think it's, you're right, it's something about the way he's dying in that, which is just like, just being pulled out into a void, you know?
00:08:42
Red D
Yes.
00:08:50
Jen
It's quite a scary death, I'd imagine.
00:08:55
Red D
It kind of reminds me of those curl-headed people. What are they called? All the main baddies.
00:09:00
Jen
Oh, yes.
00:09:01
Red D
um
00:09:01
Jen
um
00:09:02
Red D
They transport people into space to kill them. And it's like, oh, horrible.
00:09:05
El Platypo
What?
00:09:05
Jen
Oh yeah.
00:09:07
Red D
That's horrible.
00:09:07
Jen
Yeah, that is horrible. Yeah, can't remember what they're called now. Crazy haired ones, yep.
00:09:14
El Platypo
something, Maj. Yeah.
00:09:15
Red D
Yeah.
00:09:16
Jen
I
00:09:17
Red D
The Maj is the leader. oh my gosh, we've only been watching this for like two seasons.
00:09:20
Jen
know, can't believe none of us can remember.
00:09:21
Red D
I mean...
00:09:21
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:09:23
Jen
Oh no. They are my least favourite baddies, so that's my excuse.
00:09:26
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:09:27
Red D
My excuse is I cannot remember anything on the spot, so i'm just gonna stand by.
00:09:27
El Platypo
but my favorite
00:09:30
El Platypo
ah yeah
00:09:33
Jen
Oh my god. Well, at least I can remember the villains in this one, the Vidians, and I always remember them because they're so disgusting with the Ormond Harbourhood.
00:09:36
Red D
Yes.
00:09:38
El Platypo
Oh,
00:09:39
Red D
I mean, as soon as they mentioned Vadias, I'm like, oh no, Jenny's gonna hate this episode.
00:09:41
Jen
Yes.
00:09:42
El Platypo
another one of this.
00:09:43
Jen
Well, I mean, I don't... I think they're great baddies, so I don't hate episodes that they're in in a... like, they're bad episodes, but in fact, I think mostly they're quite good episodes because um
Existential Themes and Philosophical Implications
00:09:54
Jen
there's this real sense of terror, you know, which I just never got with the baddies with the crazy hair.
00:09:57
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:10:01
Jen
which is why calling them now since we can't remember their name. Like they were not, I think as they came across as this sort of tribal and therefore um um
00:10:11
El Platypo
in
00:10:11
Jen
dare I say quite yeah incompetent, bit stupid, which is not very, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, which is not that terrifying.
00:10:15
Red D
They're all brawn. They're just all brawn, no brain, I think, so they're not, like, such a challenging...
00:10:23
Jen
Whereas the Medians are actually sort of quite intelligent, aren't they? They developed all of these really advanced medical procedures to try and save those species and
00:10:29
Red D
And they like they almost come across as having empathy, I think, but they still do what they do, which is...
00:10:35
El Platypo
I mean, they they they do. I mean, there's that Videon that they accidentally resuscitate and give a body to that's perfect, that sort of falls love with the Doctor. And that's, you know, she is manifestly capable of emotion and sentience.
00:10:49
El Platypo
There's a weird sort of tragedy to their evil, I find, that is saddening.
00:10:52
Jen
Yeah.
00:10:54
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:10:55
Jen
I think it's exactly yeah what they were going for as well that the whole idea with the Bedeens is that they are a sort of like humans you know that the worst part of humans that
00:11:00
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:11:04
El Platypo
Or maybe just put in horrific circumstances.
00:11:08
Jen
Yeah, exactly. It's frightening to consider what humanity could become in similar circumstances. Maybe similar and go around harvesting organs.
00:11:18
Jen
so Oh, it's so rough.
00:11:19
Red D
that Your worst nightmare.
00:11:22
Jen
It is a great...
00:11:22
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:11:23
Jen
I do think that the the end bit where they come in and they're running around the ship and taking over and assessing people and is quite chilling, which I think is quite
00:11:32
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:11:33
Red D
Mm.
00:11:34
Jen
Yeah, quite a good one.
00:11:35
El Platypo
I find that horrendous, where they're like, oh, kidney might work, or extract pelvic ridge. It's like, ugh. Yeah.
00:11:42
Jen
Yeah.
00:11:42
Red D
And even like when they come across Samantha Wildman who's just given birth and they like seem extra excited because they know there's a baby somewhere.
00:11:47
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:11:48
Jen
a Yeah, and then, and you think, oh, but the baby's safe, but then no, because they can tell that she's given birth, and now they're going to go after the child, like it's, and I think there's this whole, I mean, I imagine on the, on the podcast where Harry and Kim, the
00:11:56
Red D
yeah
00:12:03
Jen
I can't remember the podcast called Red there, that's the one that I imagine Tom Paris would have a lot to say about this but there's a particular scene where he and two other crew members are running from the videos down the corridor and there's like a shot, yeah it's like a film shot where the the camera's chasing them um and it's quite a horror scene kind of shot I think.
00:12:05
Red D
The Delta Flyers.
00:12:16
El Platypo
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:12:22
El Platypo
yeah
00:12:25
Red D
oh
00:12:26
El Platypo
it It is, although I have large issues with that scene, because if even the crew of Princess Leia Organa's starship running away from Darth Vader in the first Star Wars can mount a unified point defence in a starship corridor environment, why the hell can't Starfleet?
00:12:44
Jen
Yeah, but yes I agree.
00:12:45
El Platypo
conference
00:12:45
Red D
They were surprisingly bad the Mene Bishop.
00:12:46
El Platypo
Military......undertaken when they know that if they you know let them in, they're all going to die and have their organs harvested.
00:12:54
Red D
Like there were 300 of them on in like five minutes. i was like, what happened?
00:12:57
El Platypo
Yeah. What the Did no one sort of start shooting?
00:13:02
Red D
Did no one lock the door? don't understand.
00:13:06
Jen
shooting was particularly bad as well. I just, they they basically, they need some shoot training I think, some of them.
00:13:12
El Platypo
it's it's a bit like the scene. That particular scene is a bit like the bit in Darth Marenghi's Dark Place where they're like, yeah, at this stage, we we basically didn't have enough budget for all the actors' time, so we just slow-mo'd everything.
00:13:27
Red D
apparently that's why Baywatch started doing the slobos they didn't have enough footage or something that's what I've heard I mean in gossip magazines I
00:13:27
Jen
Oh
00:13:29
El Platypo
yeah
00:13:32
Jen
my goodness, is that true? That's hilarious.
00:13:38
El Platypo
And for other non-obvious and obvious reasons.
00:13:43
Red D
i mean it I think it caught on but yeah yeah
00:13:46
Jen
Yeah, I think it did. You know what else that reminds me of? I don't know why, but it just seems has parallels in in vibes, I think. It's in them, the last Harry Potter movie, where they're in the middle of the battle, battle raging, but then they that they they lower the noise of the battle sounds and and they bring up this music, which is like this really slow, sad, sort of classical music, just as the three main characters, Harry, Harley and Ron, are running through the battle and seeing all the people are being injured and killed.
00:14:24
Jen
um And it's it's quite,
00:14:25
El Platypo
What time to run out of budget.
00:14:27
Jen
hu It's just a ah sort of, I really like sad, you know, seeing all the death and destruction kind of moment.
00:14:28
El Platypo
What a time to run budget and need to stretch it out.
00:14:38
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:14:39
Jen
And it has parallels, I think, with this scene where they're all sort of half-heartedly fighting back on Voyager, but, you know, really they're screwed, basically.
00:14:49
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:14:50
Red D
I feel like need to go back and re-watch this overtaking because somehow I don't know if got distracted or as writing maybe a note but that happened and the next thing there were 300 like vidillians on the shop so it just happened so quickly but
00:14:50
Jen
Anyway.
00:15:03
El Platypo
know
00:15:03
Jen
Yeah, it was a tiny bit in the episode to be fair. And I've got carried away and ah i'm not following the the plan at all and then this is terrible moderation.
00:15:10
El Platypo
I love it.
00:15:11
Jen
So let me, well, let me move on.
00:15:11
El Platypo
I am loving this one, Antigenycan.
00:15:15
Jen
Because you know, that was not even a point in any of my notes. So, you know, I'm going way, you know, going way off crack there.
00:15:18
Red D
it's nice that we discussed it
00:15:21
Jen
There I did. Right, I'm going to start
Recognizing Actors and Series Appeal
00:15:24
Jen
from the bottom up.
00:15:26
Red D
Oh, I was very happy with your first point. But yes, okay.
00:15:28
El Platypo
Yeah, this would revolutionise, you know, gender relations.
00:15:29
Jen
and Ha ha ha ha ha.
00:15:33
Jen
Okay, well, we we're going there. Okay, fine. Yes, I mean, this was the thing I was most impressed with about this episode. Just imagine if that is how you could deliver a baby.
00:15:43
Jen
Just transport it out of your womb. ah
00:15:46
Red D
And also, yeah, so just for listeners, they did a fetal transport of Samantha Wildman's baby, but why wasn't that done from the start?
00:15:48
El Platypo
Teleport.
00:15:52
El Platypo
Teleportage.
00:15:54
Red D
Were they going to make her push that baby up?
00:15:54
El Platypo
Yeah!
00:15:56
Jen
For all women, for every kind of baby delivery, I think, yeah.
00:15:58
Red D
Yes.
00:16:00
Jen
I can only assume that it must carry I imagine it's the equivalent of nowadays caesareans in that, you know, they they are very safe, but there is an element of risk.
00:16:05
Red D
Hmm. Hmm.
00:16:10
Jen
So wherever possible, generally doctors try and encourage normal, should we say, baby delivery?
00:16:13
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:16:18
Jen
That's going to be my explanation for it in my head. I have no idea.
00:16:20
Red D
No, he did. he I mean, you're right. Because the doctor, I think they even implied that. Because the doctor then had to do some kind of normalization of the baby something or other levels.
00:16:28
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:16:29
Jen
Mucous membranes or something, yeah.
00:16:29
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:16:29
Red D
Because...
00:16:30
El Platypo
yeah
00:16:32
Red D
But, I mean, I was like, oh my gosh, this woman's going to die. And they're like, beep, the baby's been transported outside. I was like, they had that all along?
00:16:38
El Platypo
sent impression therapy yeah
00:16:42
Red D
ah was amazing.
00:16:43
El Platypo
I mean, I agree. I have a related point, though, like, on the why the hell didn't they transport shit. How did anyone, and my response was, how on earth did anyone think a kid with hooked horns is getting out of a uterus without casualties?
00:16:57
El Platypo
Hooked, sharp horns.
00:16:59
Red D
It three little horns. She had three little horns, yes. But they were little horns. I don't know.
00:17:05
Jen
did look quite little didn't they? It's hard to imagine them doing a lot of damage.
00:17:07
Red D
And also they're probably like still...
00:17:08
El Platypo
They look like hooks.
00:17:10
Red D
But they're probably still flexible.
00:17:10
Jen
Do
00:17:11
Red D
You know, like those horns take a while to...
00:17:12
El Platypo
How would you know? do you mean they're still flexible? When are horns ever... When have you ever seen a flexible cow horn?
00:17:19
Red D
When they're born, I think it's like flexible.
00:17:19
El Platypo
Or a triceratops horn? They are born with flexible horns.
00:17:24
Red D
Hey, I, when I was six years old, I created a triceratops out of play-doh or plasticine so i think i'm the expert yes
00:17:31
Jen
you know what? I'm going to go with they're made of um cartilage because that can be quite hard and if it's sharp could be...
00:17:32
El Platypo
can't...
00:17:35
Red D
yes
00:17:38
Jen
um it' feasible that could be damaging it if it's inside you and like scraping along your womb.
00:17:42
El Platypo
Yeah, that's the point that I'm making, yeah.
00:17:45
Jen
But it also kind of looks like that stuff that they stuck on that poor baby and typically a little bit like cartilage or how I imagine cartilage.
00:17:51
El Platypo
Yes. Yeah. um So yeah, I would like to stand by that. If I have a child, we're filing its horns off before it comes out.
00:18:00
Red D
I guess if the baby's going out, you know, if we're gonna get very technical, it was going up coming out head first, so the bottom of the hooks are pointing up into the...
00:18:09
Jen
Oh yeah.
00:18:09
Red D
so... but if But the baby turned around, and I guess that's when all the trouble started.
00:18:11
El Platypo
Yes.
00:18:15
Jen
Yep.
00:18:15
El Platypo
I stand by my original. How on earth did anyone think a kid with hooked horns is getting out of a uterus without casualties?
00:18:23
Red D
I think you have a point there, actually, James, you've won me around.
00:18:26
El Platypo
think that's very big of you, Red. That's very big of you indeed.
00:18:31
Jen
I did enjoy quite a lot of the like
00:18:31
Red D
ah
00:18:33
Jen
doctor, like the medical stuff going on. Like so there was that bit as well at the end about the breastfeeding and how I think this baby's half Qatarian is it?
00:18:44
Jen
And usually it's being born to a Qatarian then they would have scales on their skin which would protect them when breastfeeding but because yeah
00:18:48
El Platypo
Oh yeah.
00:18:52
El Platypo
From their from when fangs were rocked.
00:18:54
Red D
Because they get tips really early, yes.
00:18:56
Jen
Yeah, so from a human mother breastfeeding a half-Katarian baby, then she has to consider you know other ways of breastfeeding. And there's a lot of technical medical stuff in there based around the species of the baby, which I thought was um like nice detail.
00:19:11
Red D
Yes, I thought it was great detail. And when he was like, I wasn't sure what the doctor was going to suggest when he mentioned the scales, because he was like, well well, we might have to find an alternative. And I was like, is he going to say we might have to make you some scales or something?
00:19:21
Jen
Yeah.
00:19:21
Red D
I was like, what will the solution be for this problem? I mean, like, you know, just stick.
00:19:24
Jen
yeah I wonder.
00:19:27
Red D
But it was the alternative. So maybe. say
00:19:31
Red D
Formula.
00:19:33
Jen
So is that all the baby chat guys? Shall we move on to...
00:19:38
Red D
That is all my baby chat.
00:19:38
El Platypo
I mean, well, baby, yes.
00:19:39
Red D
All there. Yes.
00:19:41
El Platypo
Although there's like a child ethics one for me later.
00:19:44
Jen
Oh, okay.
00:19:45
Red D
Baby chat, baby chat, baby chat. I also love how the Doctor has a terrible bedside manner, even with a woman giving birth. that was He was true to character, true art.
00:19:51
El Platypo
Oh yeah, wow. Bush, try and remember the exercises we did. Slip up a lip.
00:19:58
Red D
and
00:19:59
El Platypo
Breathe.
00:20:00
Red D
oh Why aren't you listening mistake to me?
00:20:02
Jen
Poor doctor.
00:20:05
Jen
I'm gonna go with red next, red point next.
00:20:08
Red D
Oh, okay. Yes, so in the teaser, I think, I just thought this was a very funny line from Janeway when um they found out, they're hurtling through space, and they find out that the medellions are in the vicinity. And she, her quip was, I'm in no mood to donate any organs today, which I thought was just very funny. I think I always like a funny line.
00:20:29
Red D
I am an organ donor. I think we're all are organ donors now, so nothing against organ donation, but they're live, yeah, they're live, yeah.
00:20:33
El Platypo
yeah just the enforced organ donation that goes
00:20:38
Red D
A non-consensual organ donation doesn't sound fun.
00:20:42
El Platypo
coerced specifically
00:20:43
Red D
Yeah. ah But it was just a very quick line, delivered very quickly, but I thought it was familiar
00:20:49
Jen
wonder when is she in a mood to donate organs?
00:20:52
Red D
hilarious.
00:20:54
Jen
I mean, hopefully never. not Not when you're alive, you know, and it's going to kill you.
00:20:57
Red D
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:00
El Platypo
Mm.
00:21:00
Red D
yeah
00:21:01
El Platypo
Yes. Yeah.
00:21:03
Red D
But yes, that was my first point. Just a funny little line.
00:21:05
El Platypo
Come on.
00:21:07
Jen
I have a different favourite Jamie Lyon which I'll get onto later.
00:21:07
El Platypo
Come
00:21:12
Jen
But, okay, so I'm gonna go, I think back to the top of my little list.
00:21:12
El Platypo
on.
00:21:20
Jen
I'm not really sure I've lost track, but anywho, I mainly, I think there might have been other people who this was a hot, I wouldn't say a highlight for, but something that might have um struck you as a bit of a moment.
00:21:35
Jen
um Harry, basically he, well first all he dies but then the other Harry has to return to a Voyager which is basically not his Voyager and that's where he stays for the rest of Voyager, the rest of the series is like...
00:21:52
Red D
This is what I'm talking about keeping me up at my tonight. I've... Go
00:21:56
Jen
Ah okay so this is okay I do understand that yeah I mean how would you feel
00:22:00
Red D
ahead.
00:22:00
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:22:05
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:22:05
Red D
I...
00:22:05
El Platypo
It's just like, it would be like, are these my friends?
00:22:06
Red D
go ahead
00:22:08
El Platypo
Are they not? Yeah.
00:22:11
Jen
I mean, surely you'd be grieving a little bit.
00:22:12
Red D
ah
00:22:14
El Platypo
And is this my reality? Like, did but did anyone actually die? Did an entire crew die or not? or
00:22:23
Red D
Yes, what does it mean if, like, those people are, like, i mean, the essential question is, are we even alive? Because if some of them died and it didn't matter, what was the point, I guess?
00:22:33
El Platypo
yeah Yeah.
00:22:33
Red D
Like, I mean, I went went it a bit over the top there, but, like, yeah, he just switched ships to, because I guess they acknowledged that the other ship had lost Harry and had lost a Nomi Wild and the baby, he took the baby, but, like, he's just supposed to carry on?
00:22:49
Red D
Like, that never happened? I'm like,
00:22:52
El Platypo
I think... Janeway's basically, at the end, trying to sort of smooth him through, like, don't think about it, just keep going and that'll get you through, and that, you know, there's a greater which that is, like, the best possible of advice, unless he's actually started to think about it, at which stage it's, like, one hell of a head fuck and pour this man 50 whiskeys and don't let him stop and think. Yeah.
00:23:15
El Platypo
And I agree with that. It sort of segues into my mind because to me, like one step further, would you accept your child's sort of weird trans-dimensional p clone?
00:23:26
Red D
Yes, because I mean...
00:23:26
El Platypo
Because cause the ensign who gives birth um lou in one instance loses the child, but in a bid to escape the Vidiens on the actual vessel ah that gets boarded,
00:23:42
El Platypo
they take the child with them and return or give it to her. Now, I nearly fell into the trap of saying, return it to her, but it was whilst being her child, it was never actually hers, which is a weird sort of philosophical distinction to draw, isn't it?
00:23:55
Jen
Hmm.
00:23:58
Red D
It's very strange that she's just like, i'm not not I mean, it's not strange that she's just happy that she has her baby, but it's not her baby back.
00:24:04
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:24:05
Red D
It's like, unless everyone is actually, yeah, very hard to wrap my head around.
00:24:12
El Platypo
yeah
00:24:13
Red D
I do agree that the best thing is to never think about it again, but if you're in that situation,
00:24:16
Jen
Good. Hmm.
00:24:17
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:24:19
El Platypo
That baby is found night after night in the bar with whiskey screaming mindlessly into the void.
00:24:24
Jen
you
00:24:27
Red D
I mean, I know that, oh, sorry.
00:24:27
Jen
I think I'm... No good.
00:24:30
Red D
I just know from a personal thing, I can like kind of very quickly just move on and get over stuff. So I think I would be, in a sense, fine if that happened to me. Like I would just adjust, this is the new reality moving forwards.
00:24:42
Red D
But I think, as you said, if you think about it too much, yeah, that would be...
00:24:50
Jen
That could be the key then. Because i I don't know. You never know how you react in that scenario. But I have a feeling I might dwell on the deaths of the other crew, you know?
00:25:05
Jen
And that would be very difficult because you'd to be like you're grieving for people, but there are people that are still there with you.
00:25:06
Red D
I have... yeah
00:25:10
Red D
Yeah. that's what's so hard to wrap my head around.
00:25:15
Jen
And I mean, I think though, if you were to Jamie's question, like, I think if you were the mother of the baby, though, you'd know that that baby was genetically yours.
00:25:15
Red D
like
00:25:24
Jen
So, you know,
00:25:25
El Platypo
is that the same thing, though?
00:25:29
Jen
I don't know.
00:25:31
Red D
Like, are these people essentially the same people, same person, or are they actually different people? I don't know.
00:25:39
Jen
It's very weird episode.
00:25:39
El Platypo
It's an interesting question. It's a very, yeah.
00:25:45
Red D
but I lost you there, Jamie.
00:25:46
Jen
Oh, yeah. Can hear us, Jay?
00:25:52
Jen
Say something.
00:25:55
Jen
Your audio's gone. Technical issue.
00:25:56
El Platypo
I'm here.
00:25:58
Jen
ah there we go.
00:25:59
Red D
think my fridge is beeping at me because I have a feeling i left it open when I put in my...
00:25:59
El Platypo
Yep. Red.
00:26:05
Red D
and I keep hearing this...
00:26:05
Jen
This is not a technical issue.
00:26:07
Red D
No, I keep hearing this like beep through my headphones. I'm like, what is that noise? And now I remember I have a new fridge that beeps at me.
00:26:14
El Platypo
Is yours not a cat?
00:26:17
Red D
Oh, no, didn't. Why do I explain myself on these things?
00:26:21
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:26:23
Red D
Oh, I can hear the beeping noise. Okay, this is not a part of the podcast, but it's not the fridge, so that's fine.
00:26:29
Jen
Mystery beeping.
00:26:30
El Platypo
We're totally on ship here.
00:26:32
Red D
oh Sorry, guys.
00:26:34
Jen
I think it was a good... no it's fine, it was a good point to at which to move on from this this very weird situation of this voyager.
00:26:43
Red D
ah Yes, maybe my brain generated that fake beep thing, so I didn't have to think about it.
00:26:46
Jen
Yeah, just don't think about it too much. Yeah, I mean, I just... the last thing I want to say on it is it almost came across as quite unfeeling that they just carry on, you know, when
00:26:59
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:27:02
Jen
All these people have died.
00:27:02
El Platypo
yeah it
00:27:03
Jen
These people they know and love, you know. But yeah, I don't know. It's a weird scenario.
00:27:09
El Platypo
is not sure which we go with there do you is it kind of to move on or is it you know callous and unfeeling
00:27:19
Red D
very confusing.
00:27:20
Jen
I have no idea.
00:27:22
El Platypo
Also, um no, no, you go for You go for it.
00:27:22
Jen
Right.
00:27:25
El Platypo
Sorry. I'm still sort of struggling with various things. So whilst you can hear me and presumably see me, you've all frozen on my screen. So no, no, carry on. Carry Let's go. Let's go.
00:27:35
El Platypo
Next thing.
00:27:36
Jen
Sorry, sorry guys, we've got an audience, we've got ah many technical issues.
00:27:36
El Platypo
Next thing.
00:27:40
Jen
Bear with us. Okay, next point, Jade.
00:27:45
El Platypo
Is it mine? I thought I'd made mine.
00:27:49
Jen
my ah Okay,
00:27:50
El Platypo
Yeah. So my my point was the one basically around the transdimensional child, which I'd made.
00:27:58
Jen
in that case, Red, over to you.
00:27:59
Red D
Okay. I think, um well, I find it, I'm going to say this because we will disagree and Jamie said conflict is good for the podcast. But you mentioned earlier that you cried when Harry was sucked into space.
00:28:13
Jen
Well, I, you know, you know, didn't cry, but, you know.
00:28:15
Red D
Yeah, I don't mean, you had an emotional moment.
00:28:18
El Platypo
it was... sin
00:28:18
Red D
I laughed. I guess I don't know.
00:28:21
Jen
that
00:28:23
Red D
I think it was the final spinning motion, I think, as he went.
00:28:23
El Platypo
I
00:28:26
Red D
Did he spin like twirl, like,
00:28:26
El Platypo
i thought I was bad for how I hate Neelix, but you hate Harry.
00:28:29
Red D
I don't hate Harry.
00:28:30
El Platypo
Interesting. Red hates Harry.
00:28:33
Red D
I think one thing I've learned about re-watching TV a lot in my adult life is um how differently you can experience an episode from time like like like time to time.
00:28:33
El Platypo
Nice.
00:28:44
Red D
So another time I could watch this episode and be quite moved. But for some reason I was more distracted by the special effects, I guess. And that made me laugh. So...
00:28:54
Jen
Yeah, I can completely see why it was comedic as well.
00:28:54
Red D
um
00:28:57
Jen
Like, yeah, i I can, you know, visually see that. And yet for some reason, you know, it made me sad. Carrie's dying.
00:29:07
Red D
oh
00:29:10
El Platypo
Red laughed at it. She hates Harry.
00:29:12
Red D
I think it's not that I hate to Harry it might be that I have no emotions in general um but yeah
00:29:15
El Platypo
She hates Harry.
00:29:19
Jen
I mean... I'm sure you do. and they just, you know, very sensibly not directed at some random TV show.
00:29:25
Red D
oh no that's definitely not true but I other maybe we can discuss a little bit more of the special effects but um
00:29:26
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:29:32
Red D
or you're going mention this, but that special effect, for some reason, think it was because he literally twirled off, like, you know, like, his arms akimbo, legs akimbo, and was like, um so that just, I guess, made me laugh, but there was obviously the special effects of the two Janeways when they were in the same scene, which I thought was pretty well done, um and the two Kezzas, maybe some practical effects there, but yeah, I thought,
00:29:49
El Platypo
and
00:29:59
Red D
ands I don't, yeah, ah normally i always enjoy the special effects, but for some time um reason, this one made me laugh.
00:30:07
Jen
Well, I can completely see it. It was a bit comedic.
00:30:12
Red D
this
00:30:12
Jen
Sorry, Harry.
00:30:13
Red D
Sorry, Harry.
00:30:14
El Platypo
Hey, he's got at least three other deaths to try and get it right with, so no worries.
00:30:20
Jen
Yep.
00:30:21
El Platypo
Could have been someone else.
00:30:21
Red D
Exactly.
00:30:21
Jen
Yep.
00:30:22
El Platypo
Could have been O'Brien. He would have suffered.
00:30:27
Jen
So, think we're back to me.
00:30:29
Red D
Yeah.
00:30:30
Jen
And I have already touched on this, but I'm just, you know, Janeway hair appreciation society moment. I feel I thought she had a rather nice sort of poofy bun situation going on in the you know put together Janeway and then in the you know our ship is falling apart Janeway.
00:30:42
El Platypo
yeah what you
00:30:48
Jen
She had this uh this lovely ah version on the same hairstyle with this like slightly
00:30:53
El Platypo
Do you think she sort of changes it based on how action the situation is likely to be? So like in deeply formal it's always bunned up and like in action ones it's like little bit you know down
00:31:07
Jen
Not that I've noticed but it could be.
00:31:10
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:31:10
Red D
But I do like the disheveled version versus the like pulled together version.
00:31:10
El Platypo
Ah! Excuse me.
00:31:14
Red D
And disheveled, I've now learned that hair is a very big signal in TV. um And I wish I could remember the context of this, but there's an episode of ah Next Generation with Riker. And something, I think he's like hung over or something. And just his hair is like slightly messy.
00:31:29
Red D
And it's like the funniest thing I've ever seen that series or whatever.
00:31:29
El Platypo
yeah
00:31:33
Red D
Like, oh, that's, I don't know why. It's just so funny that his hair is like out of place. um but they can communicate a lot with the hair. Like, what do they do in this episode, I guess?
00:31:41
Jen
Yeah.
00:31:43
El Platypo
true
00:31:44
Jen
I think also the, I mean, the moment where she's injured and says it's just a scratch and someone else says it's not just a scratch and she said it's fine.
00:31:56
Jen
I think the interpretation of that we're meant to take is that she's very seriously injured but she's soldiering on. Except that the injury is like this tiny scratch under her eyes.
00:32:04
Red D
Yes! Yes!
00:32:04
El Platypo
right for this
00:32:07
Jen
It's quite hard to take that seriously, but...
00:32:10
Red D
I also felt that.
00:32:10
El Platypo
She's visually injured, so, you know, She's hard.
00:32:15
Jen
Yeah.
00:32:15
El Platypo
Signalling the captain's virtue.
00:32:17
Jen
yeah
00:32:18
Red D
That's true.
00:32:19
Jen
Absolutely. Jamie, Avery, hmm, y'all ready?
00:32:20
Red D
I mean, not not really related to her hair, but I guess this kind of causes her hair to become disheveled. ah You know when... Oh, I can't... Sorry, yeah my memory is really bad today, but they're being, I guess, attacked by those proton...
00:32:33
El Platypo
Mmm.
00:32:34
Red D
droplets or proton blasts or something uh and uh i think there's like a scene where they've magnetized the ship so it's like smooth again like it's and then uh the magnetizing magnetization like breaks down and they get hit again and then janeway and chakotay take their seats on the bridge and then they get hit and janeway's like jump out of her seat like it's very i don't know if anyone noticed this but like her back is arched so like she like
00:32:34
El Platypo
Blasts. Original blasts. Blasts.
00:32:42
El Platypo
know.
00:33:00
Red D
flings herself from her seat for this, I guess, um the start work. But I i was just kind of, almost again, entertained. But she did a great job, I would say, oh as she always does.
00:33:06
Jen
Mm-hmm.
00:33:08
El Platypo
As she always does. So I, the the thing I noticed was like, I just, I think some of the stuff in this, this episode where they get Janeway talking to Janeway, it's just like weird, like weirdly close and intense body language, which obviously they weren't the greatest at these. oh sorry.
00:33:30
Red D
no I also felt that but sorry let me I'll go when you finish sorry Jean
00:33:35
El Platypo
I was just trying to generate some more conversation by mining for conflict, so I think you should go.
00:33:41
Jen
Thank you.
00:33:41
Red D
yes I when they have that scene where they're debating and they well the two captains are on the ship that's the clone ship want to a better word um and they're trying to decide what to do but I think it's like
00:33:48
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:33:53
Red D
They're very close. It's very intense. And it feels like a little bit uncomfortable, I think, to like a modern day viewers for some reason. But then I was like, we have to remember they only had like this much screen.
00:34:04
Red D
They didn't have widescreen like things. So we are people often look like a little bit too close to each other when we like rewatch these episodes because it's come up before. Like why was Tom so close to that woman or otherwise whatever?
00:34:15
Red D
And I think it's just like how much ah space there is actually to show these people close up on screen.
00:34:16
El Platypo
would be the and Okay. So it's not some weird person behind the cameras.
00:34:22
Jen
Interesting.
00:34:24
Red D
No, I don't think so. i think I mean, I think it was supposed to be like, I guess, representation representing a bit like when you are in conflict with yourself or debating with yourself or like trying to win an argument with yourself, ah you know, if you' have to conflicting points of view.
00:34:38
Red D
But I also think there was a bit of just like, that's just that's how they film stuff because they had to both be on the screen at the same time for a better reason.
00:34:38
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:34:45
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:34:48
Red D
That's my theory anyway.
00:34:51
El Platypo
and
00:34:53
Jen
Yeah, I gotta say I didn't notice it in that particular scene, but I have noticed it before where I think particularly where you've got a male and female character and you're unsure if they're trying to imply that there's something going on because they're so close together it seems a bit creepy, or whether that's just a camera shot.
00:35:09
El Platypo
ah yeah but then that's That's just how people talk in Starfleet.
00:35:09
Red D
but
00:35:13
Red D
Say that again? Well,
00:35:14
El Platypo
That's just how people talk in Starfleet.
00:35:16
Jen
the
00:35:16
Red D
I guess that they want a close-up, but they don't have that much space, so we both just stand very close to each other.
00:35:25
Jen
I've lost where we are. Who's next?
00:35:27
El Platypo
I think it's probably me. And um I just, building on this thing, I thought there was lots of creepy. So i thought like the doctor going, it's our baby, was like a little bit... I also thought Janeway's first interaction with the mother and child after his birth is likewise a bit like creeps.
00:35:49
El Platypo
Like, who wants their boss coming in and sort of touching them and their baby after they've just given birth? question more Question mark, question mark.
00:35:56
Red D
If Jamie was my boss, yes.
00:35:59
El Platypo
Not in that way. Not in that way. That's all I'm going to say. um yeah, I don't know.
00:36:04
Red D
and pick up on that.
00:36:06
El Platypo
I think...
00:36:06
Jen
I wonder if that's why Janeway said...
00:36:06
El Platypo
don't think it was deliberate. Oh, go for it.
00:36:11
Jen
Well I was just going to say to your point that I wonder if that's why they made... I noticed they made Janeway say Samantha as she came in um rather than Ensign, you know, whatever it is.
00:36:19
El Platypo
It looks weird.
00:36:22
Jen
um Well I don't know if they were trying to show that there's a relationship there ah friendship that's outside of the Ensign Captain one
00:36:33
El Platypo
a
00:36:35
Jen
such that it would be completely normal.
00:36:35
El Platypo
um yeah Remind me what the relationship is, actually.
00:36:39
Red D
Jamie, haven't you had to go see and meet your friends' babies? You must come meet the baby. must come see the baby. Sorry, that's actually from a Seinfeld episode. but That's not me trying to make friends.
00:36:48
Jen
second
00:36:48
Red D
I'm not a fan of people with babies.
00:36:50
Jen
and
00:36:50
Red D
But, I mean, people are normally very excited to show off their babies.
00:36:54
El Platypo
I mean, yes, but Ensign Samantha isn't.
00:36:58
Red D
ah' nu i mean, I think the doctor was taking a step too far with our baby, for sure. But I didn't pick up on this. Well, I didn't react the same way, rather.
00:37:08
Jen
No, we need to.
00:37:11
El Platypo
yeah interesting yep
00:37:12
Jen
Anywho.
00:37:14
Red D
Any other creepy moments?
00:37:17
El Platypo
uh i mean harry kim walking back onto the bridge of voyager from a different dimension and everyone just being like hey it's harry hasn't died and no one having any existential questions and like that was a bit weird and creepy um
00:37:35
Red D
Yeah, you think about it, B'Elanna has the memory of seeing Harry like it's...
00:37:39
El Platypo
Die.
00:37:40
Red D
tired.
00:37:40
El Platypo
Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.
00:37:45
Jen
There's a lot that's weird about this one. I wouldn't say creepy, I'd just say weird.
00:37:52
El Platypo
Yes.
00:37:53
Jen
But, I mean I do take your point. I guess if I imagine as well, just going quickly back to the baby situation, if you might imagine my actual bullshit in real life sort of running over to me as I'm lying in a hospital birth bed having just given birth, probably in like nothing but a hospital gown, then yes, that would be really creepy.
00:38:04
Red D
Oh, God. No.
00:38:06
El Platypo
Yes.
00:38:13
Jen
um But I guess I'm thinking of it in terms of Star Trek and Janeway being a close personal friend and not a boss.
00:38:21
El Platypo
yeah
00:38:22
Jen
But of course she is, so maybe it's creepy.
00:38:25
El Platypo
yeah a lot creepy this one for me and obviously it ends you know it's on both creepy until the ball come along
00:38:28
Jen
just
00:38:34
Red D
They're pretty creepy.
00:38:35
Jen
Yeah. Okay, red.
00:38:38
Red D
Oh, well, I will just... Oh, okay. Well, I've already covered that.
00:38:42
El Platypo
Harry Kim being sucked off into space. Oh, right.
00:38:46
Red D
ah
00:38:47
El Platypo
Frozen?
00:38:47
Red D
I did think... I don't know anyone else picked this up or it was just my imagination, but I felt like when we had the two cases in Sick Day, I felt like the actress played them slightly differently.
00:38:58
Red D
Like the case from the damaged ship
00:39:00
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:39:02
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:39:03
Red D
was somehow not 100% KISS, which I thought it was really great acting. and I mean, i if that was intentional. um So I just was wondering what and everyone else thought.
00:39:14
El Platypo
Oh, yeah, I agree.
00:39:16
Jen
Yeah, interesting. I didn't actually notice that at the time, but now you say it, I can see what you mean. I wonder if she thought she'd play it as though she was the same person, Kez, but she there was something not quite right because she's not in the right whatever it is, space, time, dimension, whatever this.
00:39:30
Red D
Yeah.
00:39:32
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:39:36
Jen
situation is. I never really understood what... they said it wasn't a space-time situation, did they? they And it wasn't parallel universe.
00:39:41
Red D
Yeah, because they're in the same space-time.
00:39:43
Jen
Yeah, so um I'm still not really care what was actually going on, but...
00:39:44
Red D
yeah
00:39:47
Red D
We'll have to read that paper from Kent University, I guess.
00:39:49
Jen
Yes!
00:39:50
El Platypo
miss
00:39:50
Red D
Oh
00:39:52
Jen
Yeah, I did enjoy that line actually when they were talking about what happened with the, you know, Kent student University paper. um And they were saying they just, at the end of the experiment, neither... neither could survive.
00:40:03
El Platypo
oh no
00:40:03
Jen
um
00:40:03
Red D
yes, mutual annihilation.
00:40:05
Jen
Mutual annihilation.
00:40:05
El Platypo
Oh no. None can survive while the other yet lives.
00:40:09
Jen
Yes, another Harry Potter.
00:40:12
El Platypo
Can I specify, did they mean Kent University is in the UK? Like, based on the country way?
00:40:17
Red D
I think i also thought that to start but then I realized they were saying like state Kent University or something like that which implied that maybe but it could be because they do like reference things from like globally right but I was wasn't sure
00:40:18
El Platypo
Because that's like proper...
00:40:33
El Platypo
Yeah. Fair enough.
00:40:37
Red D
But yeah, I just was impressed with her acting there. Jennifer Lien, or Lien, don't know how to say her name, but I was like, oh i think she's put a little spin on this version of Kiz.
00:40:44
Jen
Hmm.
00:40:46
Red D
Well, that's how I interpret it anyway.
00:40:48
Jen
Yeah, it's an interesting if you run with that as well, because then what about Harry? He's gonna be out of place for the rest of his life.
00:40:54
Red D
Oh, yes. That's true.
00:40:58
Jen
Maybe it's just because she's a, what they called her?
00:40:58
Red D
That is true.
00:41:04
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:41:04
Jen
Gosh, we're not doing very well in this episode.
00:41:06
Jen
I'm like forgetting names of aliens.
00:41:07
Red D
They even say, oh my gosh, I'm sorry.
00:41:09
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:41:09
Red D
I'm too tired. and
00:41:10
Jen
Yeah.
00:41:12
Red D
company.
00:41:12
Jen
A comfort, yeah that's right, well done Red, yeah, a comfort.
00:41:13
Red D
A company? Thank you. I was like, I better get this right.
00:41:15
Jen
So maybe you need to get something right.
00:41:17
Red D
Yes. Yes.
00:41:19
El Platypo
yes
00:41:19
Jen
Our poor listeners, if there are any.
00:41:22
Red D
well
00:41:23
Jen
Yeah, she's she's like, you know, and empathetic and can read people, you know, if you feel certain things that humans can't, so maybe that was just her.
00:41:29
Red D
yes
00:41:35
Jen
And Harry will be fine.
00:41:37
Red D
Yeah, she is more sensitive, maybe.
00:41:38
El Platypo
Well, suddenly there's twice as as as many of her friends as there used to be with minor fractional differences.
00:41:48
Red D
yeah Yeah, so I just thought she did a great job there.
00:41:49
Jen
Plus, yeah, yeah.
00:41:52
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:41:54
Jen
Plus maybe the whole situation's rectified.
00:41:54
El Platypo
Do you think they signaled it with her hair as well?
00:41:57
Jen
Oh.
00:41:58
El Platypo
Do you think they signaled it with her hair as well? As well?
00:42:03
Red D
No, they were identical, weren't they?
00:42:05
El Platypo
No, Kiz from Damage Ship's hair is very much messed up, whereas think this is not.
00:42:06
Red D
ah to was there...
00:42:10
Red D
Oh, OK. I didn't notice as much. Oh, yeah.
00:42:13
Jen
hello Maybe the situation rectifies itself once the other ship is destroyed so that Harry then becomes permanently, you know, he's a part of the the new ship now, officially.
00:42:27
Jen
Huh,
00:42:27
El Platypo
Yeah, but not where I thought you were going with that.
00:42:28
Red D
Yeah.
00:42:31
Jen
where did you think I was going?
00:42:32
El Platypo
Well, when you went with maybe the situation rectifies itself when the ship is destroyed, i had this image of Kez's hair magically becoming sort of nice and pristine. I was like, that's where we're going with this?
00:42:47
Red D
Oh, that's funny because that is how it works in some shows. You can just see like the magical transformation.
00:42:53
El Platypo
Oh, yeah.
00:42:55
Jen
Yeah. Do you think, right, um when we had the initial, before we'd moved to the second ship and we just had the original Voyager falling apart and Jane Ray looked at state and then we we first jumped to the other ship,
00:43:08
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
00:43:15
Jen
um and we went straight on a shot of the, I'll say the new Janeway, the second Janeway. um To me, it looked like she was even more, what's the word, like well-groomed than usual.
00:43:28
Jen
Like she had like this really sharp lick lipstick on really perfect perfectly aligned hair.
00:43:31
Red D
Yes, yeah.
00:43:35
Jen
And I wonder if that was on purpose, just to show the contrast between them. There's this chip that's falling apart. And then,
00:43:44
Red D
Yes, I think you're right. Because also, I noticed, I don't not you say it, but I had remember the close ups when they were having that debate. ah She looked very glamorous.
00:43:54
Jen
Yes, more so than usual, yeah.
00:43:55
Red D
Not glamorous, but yeah. Yeah.
00:43:58
Jen
Yeah, I wonder if that was like a little, you know, show the contrast kind moment.
00:44:03
El Platypo
Yay.
00:44:03
Jen
Anywho, moving on, moving on. So, are we on the back with you, Red?
00:44:09
Red D
I'm happy to go. I've got one more, I think. so But I realized one of the Fadians was played by an actor who we all know, I'm sure, but wouldn't necessarily know his name.
00:44:12
El Platypo
yay
00:44:19
Red D
But his name is Bob Clendenin. Sorry about that, Bob. I don't think I pronounced that very correctly. But he was one of Fadians. He was a surgeon, a creepy surgeon at Scrubs, the creepy neighbor in
00:44:30
El Platypo
paul
00:44:33
Red D
ah Cougar Town and I think he was also in Dude Who Saw My Car or something and he always plays this like tall skinny creepy dude and I once heard him on an interview and he was so great because he's like yeah I don't care that I'm typecast I get work all the time because then people want me to or something along those lines I think ah um it's Bob Clendenin
00:44:35
El Platypo
What?
00:44:52
El Platypo
How do you spell his name?
00:45:00
Red D
C-L-E-N D-E-N-I-N
00:45:03
El Platypo
K-L-E-N.
00:45:04
Red D
C-L-E-N.
00:45:07
Jen
This is gripping listening.
00:45:08
El Platypo
Oh, Klandenin. Oh, nice.
00:45:09
Red D
Yes, I think.
00:45:10
El Platypo
Oh, okay. Interesting.
00:45:12
Red D
Do you recognize him?
00:45:13
El Platypo
That's how I like. I'm just typing him in. Oh, yes. Yes, that is a familiar face.
00:45:18
Red D
you will You will know him, yeah, for sure.
00:45:22
El Platypo
That is hysterical. hysterical.
00:45:24
Red D
And he was perfectly cast, I guess, as a video. Creepy video.
00:45:26
Jen
Mm.
00:45:27
Red D
Yeah.
00:45:27
El Platypo
creep me verin Actually, yeah, like I sort of even know which one.
00:45:28
Red D
creepy with did
00:45:31
El Platypo
I recognize the facial expression.
00:45:33
Red D
yeah So that was very, I mean, I'm always excited to like rewatch shows and be like, oh, that actor that I didn't know was, you know, was in there, wasn't there or whatever. So that was very exciting for me.
00:45:42
Jen
Yeah. I'm exactly the same right, but then I always feel kind of bad that I feel that way because surely if most viewers feel that way, then it means that producers, directors are going to be constantly recasting the same people and giving them the work because they know the audience is familiar with them.
00:45:51
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:46:03
El Platypo
Have you ever come across the British dramatic scene?
00:46:03
Jen
And I...
00:46:06
Red D
Yes, apparently that's very, very strong. But i what I mean, i what I find fascinating because I was going to say earlier is that I have very bad pu ah object permanence, which is something you develop up as a baby, which I don't think I develop mine, which is like when something's out of sight, it's hard for me to believe that it still exists.
00:46:15
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:46:22
Red D
So like when I leave
00:46:22
El Platypo
Ah, yes, it's probably the same.
00:46:23
Jen
Oh wow!
00:46:24
Red D
When I leave work in the evening, I'm like, those people just poof, disappear.
00:46:30
Red D
But there is a kind of explanation to this. So that's why i was saying I think I'd be kind of okay if I was Harry because of that kind of default in my thinking.
00:46:36
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
00:46:39
Jen
I was gonna say that might be quite a...
00:46:40
Red D
ah Or fault. Or fault in my thinking, sorry.
00:46:42
Jen
um yeah it's that's quite a useful thing to have I would imagine.
00:46:43
El Platypo
Mm-hmm.
00:46:47
Jen
Helps you not dwell.
00:46:48
Red D
But how it relates to this conversation is kind of like I would see something, see an actor in it and then like never think about that actor again. And now when I'm re-watching like things from Murder, She Wrote and Golden and Girls and ah Law and Order and then seeing these same actors crop up, I'm like, oh yes, that's how they make a living.
00:46:59
El Platypo
yes
00:47:05
Red D
From going to show, to show, to show.
00:47:05
El Platypo
but sounds
00:47:06
Red D
They don't just do like one show.
00:47:07
Jen
okay
00:47:09
Red D
I mean, i sorry, I sound so stupid, but that is ah kind of my point.
00:47:09
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:47:12
Red D
is like I kind of enjoy seeing, oh, that's where they got their start or that's where they were like they were a jobbing actor, blah, buth blah, blah.
00:47:14
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:47:17
Jen
yeah yeah oh I don't think you're alone in that red it's fun seeing you know people you're familiar with and you see them in lots of things but when they're younger and they're first starting out and especially when I find it really satisfying when you think someone's a fantastic actor and then you look back and see them in early things and They maybe, you put it this way, you can see how far they've come, like how they've developed their craft, i guess.
00:47:40
Red D
Yeah.
00:47:43
El Platypo
Oh.
00:47:44
Jen
i I think that's quite satisfying.
00:47:46
Red D
What I find quite interesting, because as I mentioned, I rewatched like things like Murder, She Wrote, which I watched when I was a kid. And then there's some actors there, you're like, okay, yes, I went on and they were they were like the parents and friends or parents and Seinfeld or whatever.
00:48:02
Red D
But there's some people who are only, I only, i think, i can from what I can tell, I've only ever seen them in an episode of Moni Short. And I love that actor, just from like one performance.
00:48:09
El Platypo
la
00:48:11
Red D
I'm like, oh my God, I love this book.
00:48:11
El Platypo
hello
00:48:13
Red D
And I'm like, that's kind of crazy. It's not even like from multiple performances.
00:48:14
El Platypo
suspicious
00:48:16
Red D
So people make an impression on you when you're a child, guess. Yes, that's true.
00:48:21
El Platypo
I really
00:48:21
Jen
Well, yeah, I mean, as we know from Janeway, I mean.
00:48:24
Red D
yes that's true
00:48:27
Jen
So i have one more comment of my own and I ah believe I've timed it quite well because you know, it's right at the end but I did really enjoy Janeway's line right when the vidians came on and started
00:48:30
El Platypo
do. Ooh.
00:48:39
El Platypo
Mm.
00:48:46
El Platypo
yeah
00:48:46
Jen
attacking everyone and then they finally broke into the bridge and she sat there and they don't realise it but she sat there with the self-destruct timer going down and it's got down to about two seconds and she says, stands up and says, welcome to Voyager and then boom.
00:48:57
El Platypo
Two seconds.
00:49:03
Red D
you It's so satisfying.
00:49:05
El Platypo
I'll be your hostess today.
00:49:06
Jen
And yeah, it just, it really reminds me of like the payback's a bitch kind of line, you know, yeah um which I couldn't remember what's from.
00:49:06
El Platypo
Yes, sir.
00:49:11
El Platypo
yes
00:49:14
Jen
Do any of you remember where that line is from?
00:49:17
Red D
No, but we can look it up.
00:49:18
El Platypo
I just thought it was the wit and wisdom of Captain Catherine Janeway, Catherine Mulgrew.
00:49:23
Jen
No, no, I mean the Payback's a bitch line.
00:49:25
El Platypo
Yeah, no, I know.
00:49:26
Red D
I'll look him.
00:49:26
El Platypo
that's That's what I was referring to.
00:49:28
Jen
Oh. No, don't think from her.
00:49:30
Red D
Hmm.
00:49:31
Jen
don't know where it's from.
00:49:33
El Platypo
Everyone Googles this simultaneously.
00:49:33
Jen
Might look it up.
00:49:35
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:49:35
Jen
Yeah.
00:49:38
El Platypo
That's interesting.
00:49:38
Red D
Sorry listeners, while we all go.
00:49:39
Jen
Where are you using Google?
00:49:41
El Platypo
I don't know. just thought could hear someone cutting their toenails, which is a bit weird.
00:49:43
Jen
two
00:49:45
El Platypo
um
00:49:45
Jen
Oh, here we go Payback's a bitch origin.
00:49:48
Red D
ah Okay, Jenny's found.
00:49:49
Jen
Oh, Batman Returns.
00:49:50
El Platypo
Really?
00:49:52
Jen
I mean,
00:49:52
Red D
Independence Day? i mean, I'm on the same forum as you have.
00:49:57
Jen
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
00:50:02
Jen
Eb is an Independence Day, yeah.
00:50:04
El Platypo
Dying,
00:50:06
Red D
Oh, people quoting Shakespeare.
00:50:12
Red D
Ooh, someone's laptop sounds like it's not great.
00:50:15
El Platypo
dying. dying
00:50:17
Jen
ten Anyway, right, so that's my last one. Now, anyone else? Anyone else?
00:50:23
Red D
No, I think I'll think I'll save my, well, think I think, I I will save my last point for my star player. I've decided.
00:50:31
Jen
Ooh, okay. Jamie, any final comments before we move on to...
00:50:33
El Platypo
No, I think we've scraped the bottom of my barrel on this one. I think, you know, comments about how horrible are the Deans, but that's about me.
00:50:40
Jen
Excellent.
00:50:41
Red D
like a very,
00:50:45
Jen
Excellent. So, themes. um
00:50:48
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:50:49
Jen
I've heard some other people wrote some stuff because I had a bit brain blank with this one and the only thing I could think of was the very bog standard, you know, sacrifice, self-sacrifice, Janeway and one crew to save the other crew.
00:51:01
El Platypo
I have...
00:51:04
El Platypo
I have something equally worthy, but more convoluted in the way that I get there. i have You've got to face your problems head on as opposed to running from them. And my reason for it is, the only reason that all of this happens is that they run away from the fleet of about 50 Vidian ships and hide in a plasma cloud as opposed to doing what they should have done, which is attack them head on.
00:51:26
El Platypo
If they just confronted their problem head on, it was 20.
00:51:27
Red D
50 ships. 50 ships. Oh, okay.
00:51:30
El Platypo
Anyway, if they just confronted that problem head on, they'd have been fine.
00:51:34
Jen
That is a really weird lesson to take from this.
00:51:34
El Platypo
and yeah
00:51:37
El Platypo
I know, i I just thought I'd go around the houses on it.
00:51:41
Red D
I would say, actually, I was going to say something else. Oh, you're done. No, Jamie, sorry. i um I think there's a, ah there is, yeah, I think you have an element of truth there, but I think they must be, I'm sure they were trying to do something with the two Janeways in terms of theme. And now that I think about it, the Janeway of the clone ship volunteered to self-destruct first.
00:52:06
Red D
The Janeway of the second ship said, give me 15 minutes. um And then in the end, that extra time was the right thing to do. So how do you ever know you're making the right decision? I guess is a... That's why I try to put up all my decisions as long as possible.
00:52:20
Red D
hope I don't have some critical information. ah oh Jamie, we can't hear you. What's happened?
00:52:28
El Platypo
To that point, I think the concept of necessary and sufficient evidence is quite a useful one.
00:52:28
Jen
Oh no.
00:52:34
Red D
Hmm.
00:52:34
El Platypo
um You know, so some things need to be the case for something to be the case, but they're not enough to prove that it is the case. Whereas thinking of, you know, sufficient to believe something, you know, is is a different evidential level.
00:52:48
El Platypo
And it's quite a nice sort of double set of hoops to make any decision jump through, I guess.
00:52:56
Red D
Yeah, it's very good to have a framework that's not just delay as long as possible, which is my strategy.
00:53:01
El Platypo
Yeah, yeah, agree with that.
00:53:02
Jen
Have a cut off boy.
00:53:04
El Platypo
Have a matrix.
00:53:04
Red D
um But yes, I also did think of Chakotay's line right at the beginning, which is home is where you are, which I guess applies to Harry and the little baby and their experience.
00:53:09
El Platypo
Or not.
00:53:19
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:53:20
Red D
Oh, sorry, Jamie, you cut out again there. What what did you say?
00:53:22
El Platypo
Yeah, I know. um It's like my reality just momentarily phases in and out of being. I've cloned myself, had an adventure, and then murdered my co clone. um Not unlike Harry Kim in this one. um they doubt That was me.
00:53:35
El Platypo
I had another mess.
00:53:37
Red D
But you mentioned the matrix I was just saying.
00:53:39
El Platypo
Oh, no, I said you need a matrix for decision-making.
00:53:42
Red D
Ah, yeah.
00:53:43
El Platypo
Not the matrix, a matrix.
00:53:45
Red D
A matrix.
00:53:45
El Platypo
It only becomes the matrix once it becomes your matrix. Or, you know, a worldwide thing for controlling humans and turning them into batteries in a virtual reality.
00:53:49
Red D
Very good.
00:53:54
El Platypo
Futuristic state needing Neo.
00:53:58
Red D
Yes, that seems like too much effort, but a matrix with decision making I can
00:54:03
El Platypo
I'll put it back into it.
00:54:03
Jen
yeah I like a time point, a deadline, you know, so I say oh I'm only going research until this date or I'm only going research until they have three quite Sorry, i we're thinking about getting out our window read. I'm like, well, I'm only going to get three quotes and then I'm not going to get any more. Yeah.
00:54:24
Red D
Yeah, three seems more than sufficient.
00:54:24
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:54:26
Jen
yeah
00:54:27
Red D
Um...
00:54:28
Jen
a
00:54:28
Red D
I think it's because, gosh, sorry, as you said that, ah triggered something and now it's slipped.
00:54:36
Red D
Oh, no, i can't remember. oh this is so annoying. But just about the decision-making and putting it off. But then, oh, yes, sometimes I'll be putting off something for so long, so long, so long, and then something else happens, and I'm like, okay, now, and then I'm like, that's why I was putting it off.
00:54:50
Red D
Why didn't I just know that and stop being stressed out about and, like, being like, oh, why are you procrastinating, blah, blah, blah, you're an idiot.
00:54:50
El Platypo
and yeah
00:54:56
Red D
Like, oh, my other part of my brain knew didn't make any sense to do that yet. But they're not talking to each other,
00:55:01
Jen
Ah.
00:55:02
Red D
so
00:55:04
Jen
Oh, well I do, I see, I wouldn't see that as a, oh, that's stupid, they weren't talking to each other. I would see that as, you know, in those Matthew Syeth books. um
00:55:13
Red D
Oh yes, I do want to read some of these books.
00:55:15
Jen
Yeah, they're quite good actually. Like one of them, he talks about, um like what people perceive as intuition. And he's sort of explaining it how in fact, in a lot of cases, it potentially isn't.
00:55:21
El Platypo
um
00:55:26
Jen
It's like, for example, um you know, a fireman not knowing where to step in a burning building that is not going to result in him falling through.
00:55:35
Red D
Oh.
00:55:37
Jen
And, you know, they might describe that experience as that was really lucky. There was nothing to indicate that that was the place to step. And and whilst that is accurate, that there's nothing in his conscious brain, um he was a fireman for 25 years.
00:55:53
Jen
And that is a level of experience that is probably somewhere in ah the unconscious brain as well.
00:56:00
Red D
Yeah.
00:56:00
Jen
um Similar with like nursing and and things, you know it's not they they you perceive it as intuition, but in fact, it's not potentially just experience and and knowledge and skills, but it's not knowledge that is at the forefront of your brain.
00:56:08
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:56:12
Jen
It's it's buried deep.
00:56:14
El Platypo
yeah
00:56:14
Red D
Ah, interesting.
00:56:15
Jen
Yeah, an interesting take on it.
00:56:16
Red D
That makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.
00:56:18
Jen
Hmm.
00:56:21
Jen
Yeah. I guess he was he was liking it as well, because he was talking about like great sporting heroes. um to you know They train, they train, they train, and then eventually it's just muscle memory.
00:56:33
Jen
And their muscle just reacts. Like when they're playing tennis, for example, they don't think, oh, I need to do this particular move to return the ball. um you know the They sort of just react. And...
00:56:43
Jen
he was liking it to be like that but within the brain so it's muscle memory in the brain yeah
00:56:48
Red D
Okay.
00:56:50
El Platypo
Fascinating.
00:56:51
Red D
That's why I always defended that rugby player who put that other rugby player's ear.
00:56:51
Jen
yeah
00:56:55
El Platypo
Who did Walter?
00:56:57
Red D
This is for a long time ago. That rugby player, one rugby player puts another rugby player's ear. um but my point was they're not thinking consciously when they're playing they just like that it's all that training obviously you don't train to bite other people's ears but I'm just saying if something slipped in there you could get carried away because you're not consciously thinking all the time about how you're going to a tackle or what you you know you're just going with I'm sure I said that because I thought you might have a reaction Jamie as a rugby player
00:57:20
El Platypo
I mean, what don I don't know about that. i
00:57:26
El Platypo
Yeah, I... No. Sorry, no. you
00:57:30
Red D
I'm not condoning biting people's
00:57:32
Jen
yeah You're biting.
00:57:32
El Platypo
no No, I'm not arguing that.
00:57:33
Red D
Good night.
00:57:35
El Platypo
I'm actually saying that I think you have more control than you realise or than you're giving that individual credit for. So I don't line up we beyond that, you know...
00:57:45
El Platypo
ah annulment of ah maldoing.
00:57:51
Red D
Fair enough. Fair enough.
00:57:52
Jen
Yeah, I mean I guess you don't want to use it as like an excuse for behaviors do you? You'd say oh well it was just my unconscious brain reacting. So it's yeah there's nuance there.
00:58:03
Red D
I just remember trying to make that argument for someone. ah So that's, I don't know why I remember that. But yes, I'm not saying it was the right argument.
00:58:08
El Platypo
control myself when accidentally beat him to death with his own head.
00:58:12
Red D
No. But sports are a unique situation. um
00:58:19
Jen
And on that note, let's move on ear-biting rugby players.
00:58:22
El Platypo
Yes. Yeah. Red, fighting rugby players. Sorry, carry on.
00:58:27
Jen
Star player, star player.
00:58:27
Red D
oh
00:58:29
Jen
Are they?
00:58:29
Red D
I'll go. I'll go.
00:58:30
Jen
Yeah, go on.
00:58:31
Red D
I'm gonna go for the baby, Noemi Wildman, who was really, really cute and very quiet when they were hiding from the Vidians. The doctor was trying to hide Akiko, like, shh, so she was crying and didn't give away She was very cute.
00:58:40
Jen
Oh.
00:58:42
Red D
She just looked like really serious, like this little baby.
00:58:45
Jen
Okay.
00:58:46
Red D
So she's my star player.
00:58:46
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:58:47
Jen
I can't believe they stuck these things in this poor baby.
00:58:47
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:58:52
Red D
know, I mean, I'm not sure that would fly today, but...
00:58:52
Jen
that little
00:58:55
Jen
Yeah.
00:58:58
Jen
That's a very good choice. Jamie?
00:59:02
El Platypo
I think... whom
00:59:11
El Platypo
i mean one has One has to imagine the Videan Organ Harvesters have had a good time.
00:59:12
Jen
great yeah
00:59:16
El Platypo
But I don't know any of them individually to get star player, so not one of them.
00:59:24
El Platypo
I mean...
00:59:25
Jen
Should I go with mine?
00:59:26
El Platypo
ah right Harry Kim, back from the dead for the first time.
00:59:32
Red D
Good choice. If you're going with that, yeah.
00:59:33
Jen
Fair enough?
00:59:34
El Platypo
More conventional than normal, more conventional.
00:59:34
Jen
There? Yep.
00:59:37
Jen
Yep. I think mine, yet again, I'm not gonna go for Janeway, just for the, again, the reasoning, like, is I think she did a great job, but just feel like I'll be voting for her a lot if I notice every time.
00:59:38
Red D
ah
00:59:46
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:59:49
Jen
So instead, I'm gonna go for Samantha Wildman, because, ah
00:59:52
Red D
Oh.
00:59:54
Jen
you know I do feel sometimes on Star Trek um they don't do such a good job of the dramatic acting where something really traumatic is occurring or something really don't know painful or you know they're not not often so you good at that particular type of acting whereas I actually thought she did a pretty decent job of the giving birth i and also in particular the sort of look of anguish when she thought her baby died or well her baby did actually die
01:00:03
El Platypo
Hmm.
01:00:25
Red D
Yes, I also noticed that. That was great.
01:00:26
Jen
Yeah, as the kind of situation where you think there's no way Star Trek's going able to convey that kind of kind of trauma. And I'm sure they didn't really, to anyone who that's happened to, I'm sure it didn't remotely do it justice. But I think overall i was I was quite impressed with that. um So well done, whoever that actress. Who's the actress?
01:00:49
Jen
Do we know?
01:00:50
Red D
I do not know that, but that can be looked up.
01:00:56
Red D
But I totally agree that she had like this tear running down and she just did a good job.
01:01:03
Jen
Yeah.
01:01:06
Jen
So, i'm I'm taking too long and I am.
01:01:06
Red D
Have you go?
01:01:10
Red D
No, no. Sometimes it's very hard to find something the most obvious thing. Then they want you go to IMDB then they want you to do this. And then I'm like, I just want the name.
01:01:17
Jen
I'm gonna have to stick in who played. oh come on Google. This is too much typing.
01:01:21
Red D
Oh, seriously?
01:01:22
Jen
Yeah, okay, Nancy Howell, there we go.
01:01:25
Red D
ah good job.
01:01:26
Jen
Well done, Nancy Howell. Amazing, so think we're done. think that's it.
01:01:33
Red D
We are done. Should I play the jingle?
01:01:36
Jen
Absolutely.
01:01:37
Red D
Okay, this is the slow jingle.
01:01:38
Jen
Can't go out without a jingle.
01:01:43
Red D
Jamie, why are you muted?
01:01:47
Red D
are you just moving your mouth? Okay.
01:01:49
Jen
It's probably snarping biscuits.
01:01:50
El Platypo
That was fire, Red. That's all you need to know.
01:01:52
Red D
Wow.
01:01:55
El Platypo
Not on screen, but on fire.
01:01:58
Jen
Nancy Howe was in King Lear Macbeth and Boydler Boydler
01:01:59
Red D
ah
01:02:01
Red D
wow
01:02:06
Red D
And what?
01:02:07
El Platypo
You scared the old black tortoiseshot cat. She's looking very, very sort of scared by the music.
01:02:14
Red D
Aww. Okay, see you next time. it again.
01:02:17
Jen
Bye
01:02:18
Red D
Bye.