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00:00:01
We watch "Persistence of Vision" (S2 Ep.8)
19 Plays10 months ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
New format, same old show!
This week we are watching "Persistence of Vision" in which Janeway is ordered to take a holiday, but a sociopathic and telepathic alien has other plans.
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Setup
00:00:02
Speaker
OK, Jamie, you're not trying to interrupt me, so that's good. I don't remember. What episode was it this week? Yes. Welcome back, everyone, for we, Janeway's children. I know they referred to us by our old name. We love Janeway, which never really was our old name. But anyway. It's not our actual name. Yes. So this week we are talking about season two, episode eight, persistence of vision. Does that ring any bells?
00:00:31
Speaker
No, don't tip in the chat. No one can hear. I was actually trying to unmute myself.
Humor and Technical Difficulties
00:00:37
Speaker
That was like the worst timing ever. It's a sarky, rhetorical question. And then I can't comment on anything. You have no idea how much that burned me, Red. Do you mean you actually... I was wondering why I had 40 seconds of uninterrupted airtime. I was like, what is happening? I don't know. I just think you've gone and put sticking gum under my mute button or something like that.
00:01:03
Speaker
Do you actually read the episode title, I suppose, to just go in the sequence that iTunes puts them up on? I don't watch on iTunes, so I don't know what you think. Okay, right, duly noted. Are you saying you watch on some illegal download site, young? No, on Netflix.
00:01:22
Speaker
Oh my gosh, we're on Netflix and I choose. I imagine what a profitable sponsorship, partnership that could be. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, I'm getting confused. I thought you meant the title of the Star Trek episode. No, I was referring to that. I just never look at the title when it will fire whatever platform that might wish to sponsor me. Well see Jamie, you know all that admin that I do?
00:01:47
Speaker
You know when I create the room and I create the document for us to type the notes in I have to do it I can't help but see what the title of the So let's dive in
00:02:05
Speaker
Jamie, are you up to giving a one minute summary?
Episode Summary and Themes
00:02:09
Speaker
Earlier this afternoon, I really thought I wasn't. And then five minutes ago, I really thought I wasn't. I really feel like I'm not again, which is an uncertainty of mind, which perhaps speaks to the contents of the episode itself in which delusion, psychic manipulation and people's confrontations with their deeply held insecurity or fantasy loom large.
00:02:33
Speaker
The episode starts with the intrepid crew approaching the space of an unknown alien species by the name of the Bortha, who Neelix urgently suggests to the captain she should consult with him prior to engaging in diplomacy. Instead of doing this, the captain is told by a two-inch high doctor to go and get some rest and relaxation time, as she apparently hasn't eaten for 60 days or drunk for 70. I may be exaggerating.
00:03:01
Speaker
Having then taken the Doctor's orders and been sexually harassed by a, well, frankly, hologram version of a Lord Burleigh from 18th century England, the Captain Ventsmans appeared as they approached the both of space, wondering if she's losing her marbles, as various of the hallucinations start appearing, and then the closer they get to the alien ship.
00:03:25
Speaker
the more the crew start to succumb to hallucinations and similar. We then engage in the crew's interaction with the aliens and how they extract themselves from this situation.
Reactions and Character Insights
00:03:37
Speaker
Did I manage to sound as though I was reading something there? No, but you sounded your usual brilliant self, so thank you very much. So I think before we dive into our, you know, top moments, top three or four moments,
00:03:52
Speaker
Our initial reactions. Jenny, are you ready to kick us off? I know if you like the episode you have lots of reactions. You think it's... How did you feel? Yeah, I liked it. I did. I mean, it was riding off the back of last week's absolutely hilarious one. So it did have a lot to live up to, which I think it suffered from a little bit. I think
00:04:15
Speaker
I still really liked it. I mean, any episode that's like 90% Janeway. I thought Janeway acted really superb in this one, actually. Yeah, absolutely. And I did like some some other small facial expressions of some of the other characters. Most notably, just the
00:04:37
Speaker
description of all the invitation from Nelix to Janeway to go and have some food and the mess hall and the expressions from I think the vault or what is known now, we're particularly good. Do we get the impression that the captain hasn't been regularly eating the mess hall given the enjoyment they take of the fact that she's committed to going down and eating there?
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah, well, that is one of my moments, so I think we can go into that a bit more later on. But, Jamie, anything else? Or your initial impressions or initial reaction? I found it a really enjoyable one, actually. I found it well acted. I found moments of humour in there. I found it just on the edge of being that little bit scary in a way that Star Trek does a really good job of getting to the edge of, but never going
00:05:30
Speaker
quite so far into the sinister. It was good, if I'm honest. I liked seeing a little bit more of Kez in this one as well. And I like that sort of exploration of the idea that the characters who you might instinctively think are the strongest aren't necessarily the strongest and vice versa. Yeah, I think that's a good... Not sure what to buy, I definitely agree.
00:06:00
Speaker
I would also say overall, I enjoyed it. I think you're right, Jenny, it wasn't like a peak episode, but I enjoyed it. But it's almost like when I was trying to think
Neelix and Culinary Humor
00:06:11
Speaker
of one of my favorite moments, I was like, well, I'm not going to have any because I don't think there were any like big moments, but overall it was... Jamie, have you settled or are you going to carry on? No, I have settled.
00:06:23
Speaker
Otherwise, I'm going to mute you until you stop. It's a lot of background noise. I'm so sorry. It's a little background noise. I'm definitely settled. I mean, I just love the fact we have a situation in which an entire ship has been gaslighted at one point. Yes, I think that's one of your points. So it's not good to dig into that. But what I will say, just to wrap up my overall impression, is it's one of those episodes where I'm just like, oh my gosh, they already put these characters through the ringer when it comes to losing their minds. Because there's a few episodes where it's like, you know,
00:06:53
Speaker
where they never know what's real or not. And then these days, those episodes really affect me for some reason. I don't know why, but I'm just like, oh, that must be very tough if you don't know what is real and what is not, I guess is what I mean. It does seem to happen to them a lot when you think about over the whole seven seasons. In fact, it's probably quite traumatic to be having actual delusions. And the number of times they have them because of some alien species or some
00:07:23
Speaker
I don't know, electro-bio-neuro-field or something. I would have thought they all need counselling quite badly. Yes, I think that's what I'm probably, I haven't quite finished my thought, but that's exactly it. I hope they have like a lot of therapy when they come back to plan. I mean, do they have a therapist on the ship? Because like with the best of all possible worlds, I'd love to be seen by the Doctor for some things, but not others.
00:07:49
Speaker
Well, it's not like Next Generation where there's a concept as a main character, so I'm not sure. Yeah, that's interesting. I think it is perhaps more affecting now as a concept than it was when it originally came out, because we have far more prevalence of fake news and social media, sort of fake stories and things like that, distortion of view of reality. So it becomes a little bit more sort of tangible in today's day and age.
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, maybe that's also that way. Great. So are we ready to go dive into our new format? I think this is the third time we're using it. We'll just go around in a mini circle with our top moments. And as I think, feel free to add to anyone else's moment if you have something that, you know, falls in the same bracket. And I'm going to try to facilitate, but
00:08:48
Speaker
I get very confused in counting one, two, three stuff to make some noise and track is gone. But I think, I noticed that we all put something about the teaser. So, um, I thought whoever goes first, maybe you can pick a teaser moment and then we can take it from there. Or I can, I can kick this off.
Introspection and Relatability
00:09:04
Speaker
I don't know about you. But
00:09:08
Speaker
Who's ready to take the lead with the top three moments and then I'll take the name off on my list. Jenny's ready, great. She's at the top of my list, so that works. I don't mind at all, yeah. In fact, I didn't realise that one of my moments was in the teaser, but looking back, it is. So yeah, well-nated red. Yeah, I mean, it's a really tiny little insignificant thing, but I just really liked it.
00:09:37
Speaker
basically genuinely not having holiday for two months is a medical issue. That's how serious it is. I really wish that all workplaces subscribe to that. That'd be wonderful. Holiday every two months. That would be great. I saw that point and I was like, yes, I didn't think of that, but that is a very, very good point. And they just, HR came every two months, like, have you had a holiday? Oh, off you go. That would be good.
00:10:05
Speaker
I mean I guess because they're you know on a ship where presumably they're doing like shifts and maybe eight hours at a time and I mean I just don't know what their rotor system is like with days off and things so probably holidays are more crucial anyway really minor thing I don't know why it's stuck in my mind Jamie anything to add to the teaser or I think you also had a
00:10:33
Speaker
I mean I had a couple some of them were a bit more generalized than specific moments but my first one was absolutely hysterics where in the teaser I think the captain is just walking along and the Neelix bounces up to her saying I knew I'd find you here and you think oh you know the captain's routine you know something like that because the computer told me you'd be at XYZ junction of XYZ interface with XYZ turbolift
00:10:59
Speaker
and I know you'll be wanting to speak to me again least important member of crew to most important member level of delusion apocalyptic continental galactic scale warp level self delusion of grander I don't know probably only surpassed by the level of self delusion I have in the workplace but let's not talk about that
00:11:22
Speaker
But that just made me smile because at the same time you sort of feel as like as much as that would peeve you if you were a skipper. I think the captain is secretly becoming fond of Neelix and his you know just complete lack of perspective. Well does that mean you're secretly becoming fond of Neelix? I will straight up shoot anyone in the face who says that.
00:11:46
Speaker
Wow, a podcast took a bad turn. I also read more violence. That's all. I'm just saying people would pay to, you know, hear us beating people up. They probably wouldn't and they shouldn't.
Holodeck Costumes and Gaslighting
00:12:00
Speaker
I mean, it's just his presumptuousness and his total lack of regard to the chain of command. It's just like,
00:12:06
Speaker
The captain will call you if she thinks she needs your help. And the way he's like, you need my help. You shouldn't be listening to me. When are you going to call? Yeah, but in the end, she knows absolutely nothing about them. I just find that amusing. There's none of the, oh, there are secretly psychic species who are going to try and take over your minds by channeling your gracious fears. Yeah, that would have been helpful to know if that's true.
00:12:33
Speaker
Well, yes, I also, I mean, the teaser, there was a lot going on, but I have to say there was a huge and a tiny moment for the doctor, which I was very, well, A, the doctor was about experimenting with him being able to move around the ship with, by I think installing holomatism. So this is like a big moment. So you'll be able to go other places apart from sickbay and the holodeck. But, um,
00:12:58
Speaker
The test was hilarious because he arrived, as you alluded to earlier, a few inches high, I guess. Now, before we go any further, how many inches tall do we think he was? I say 30 centimeters because I don't know what inches he was. Sorry, Judd. Guesses.
00:13:22
Speaker
Interesting. Well, I'm not going to make this crude by guessing, so I just love the fact that in that moment, though, the captain then turns off to berate people for wasting her time and saying that, you know, she can't be sure of every decision. And the doctor interrupts her, summons her down to his unspecified height between 1830 centimetres high, dresses her down and tells her off and orders her off to take sick leave for being grumpy.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yes, I mean, I love that scene where he's, I mean, again, if we think back to 1999 or whenever it was made, that was quite a big special effect. A tiny Dr. Janeway's face and that little, like, face-to-face discussion. Was it that huge? I mean, they'd had stuff like The Borrowers back there, hadn't they? Yes, but on just like regular TV. I mean, it's not film. Well, I thought it was a fun session. I mean, I loved it. Oh, like maybe, yeah.
00:14:17
Speaker
Not necessarily like cutting edge, but not common, I would say, in their world. Right, so thank you. I think we kind of covered the teaser. So we're going to carry on around in our little mini circles. So Jamie, are you ready for your top one to three points? Just one at a time, please. I'm going to make that very clear.
00:14:44
Speaker
Just your next point. As I said before, I loved the fact that we got to militarise level gaslighting. There was a stage at which everyone in the entire crew was being gaslit by their own personal interaction with their insecurities.
00:15:02
Speaker
into believing that they were close to their loved one or home and they were just, the moment they started interacting, they sort of glazed over and turned into a zombie. But I don't know. It was interesting in that they managed to do it in a way which something quite sinister was kept quite lighthearted and a little bit funny, in spite of the fact of being something quite terrifying, the idea of losing your mind, everything along those lines.
00:15:31
Speaker
So I enjoyed how they did that. I thought it raised interesting questions as to the perception of reality and how you know what's real, which has always fascinated me, being someone as uncertain and as unsure of oneself as I am. So yeah, it spoke to me a bit. I don't know. What do you guys think? Was it just pants or was it, you know, clever? Or was it too close to being the Matrix?
00:16:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'm struggling a little bit with delay, so I'm just going to apologise in advance if I'm speaking over people. But yeah, I must say I did, I think Jamie was touching on the point about how terrified it must be to lose your mind. And I do think Jamie acted that quite well, because right at the start, when she goes to check
00:16:27
Speaker
with knee licks about whether there were cucumber sandwiches in the mess hall. At that point, I guess she's realizing that it's not a holodeck problem. And it's that has confirmed that the problem is in her mind. And at that point, I think sort of she conveys that quite well with her facial expression. So because it would be really horrifying to realize that
00:16:51
Speaker
that wasn't real, that person or that thing you're seeing there doesn't exist. There's a sort of horror, horror mixed with disgust about it almost in the way that she portrays it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the one thing that helps make it less scary is like, as you were saying, they do a couple of things is the fact that Kisk, when we find out Kisk can see other people's hallucinations, then you're like,
00:17:18
Speaker
It's a clue that it's not just purely in someone's mind in this case. So you're like, oh, okay. And also it's super interesting that she can see the characters in the other people's hallucinations. Yeah. I think that's why Jane was so relieved as well. And just utter relief on her face when Kesta, she can see the little girl because it means it's not just all in her head.
00:17:48
Speaker
Oh, no, we lost Jenny. Oh gosh, yeah, that was a bit weird. Hmm. Is she there? Is she not? Her computer's... She's frozen. I know. Her computer's normally, like, way, way better than mine. Um, I know this feels a bit weird being in the next room, but, uh, I don't have my phone. Has she? What's up?
Podcasting Etiquette and Technical Hiccups
00:18:10
Speaker
She's got any chance to read? No, I mean, it only happened ten seconds ago, but... Oh gosh, no.
00:18:18
Speaker
might be going and coming back. I really hope there's not like a wormhole next door. I quite like my wife. I mean, maybe we can make a movie about people who make a Star Trek podcast who then somehow land up on space. Yes, that would be interesting. Are we treating this? Yeah, of course we're treating this as they're still on the podcast. Maybe some of our listeners in Oregon can tell us about times they recorded their podcasts
00:18:47
Speaker
And this has happened. What do you do? What is the social etiquette in a situation like this? Do you try and glaze over it? Do you pretend it hasn't happened? Do you act as though you were better off anyway without them? Or how do you deal with? Well, I'm hoping that she'll be back online shortly so that I don't have to do any editing. You could just be like, oh, welcome back. That's a really interesting perspective, Red, and one with an optimism I often lack. But yes. I know, but she's smiling. Yeah, she really is.
00:19:17
Speaker
OK, so I'm going to have to break a valve of this podcast and do some editing due to some technical difficulties. But we were wrapping up the very high levels of gaslighting. Do you have any final comments about that, Jamie, before we move on? Maybe I've already made them and everyone laughed. Maybe.
00:19:39
Speaker
Sorry, I just thought I'd wrap up by attempting some gas lighting of my own, but it clearly didn't work. I'm sorry. No, no, no, not at all. I mean, the last thing in the world that one wants to do when one dislikes gas lighting is try and do it as an experiment on one of one's very good friends and one's wife and it to work. I'm happier it didn't work, frankly. I mean, that was an interesting attempt because what happened was that both Red and I just thought you were a bit crazy.
00:20:09
Speaker
And I'm not. So Ergo, I have convinced you of something that isn't real, thereby gas slicing you. Maybe that's a strategy I could use when people are actually...
00:20:20
Speaker
Well, I don't feel like I run into a lot of gaslighting in real life, but it's still a handy tactic to have. Just be weird enough and people go away red. That's all you need to know in life and it's really worked for me. You have to do it sort of gradually. You don't want to sort of leap off the darker, off the, you know, off the diving board into the deep woods. You need to sort of tiptoe towards it so you only alienate, you know, a minimum necessary quotient of society.
00:20:46
Speaker
You know, looking back on the last few months, I'm worried I might have been doing that without realising, but anyway. No, you seem like you had something to say there. Oh well, I wondered if you wanted a little tangent. Yeah, Miss Hammond. I don't want a little tangent. I want an enormous tangent. A ginormous one. An elephant so large you can't even get it to talk to the elephant in the room.
00:21:09
Speaker
Um, so I was, um, this is just a fun family Christmas, uh, experience. I'm with, um, one family member who is a genset, I guess? Is that the right one? One younger than us?
00:21:22
Speaker
Oh, Gen Z or something. And so we're just talking about, I don't know, stuff someone's read in the news, I guess, or something and an article, I don't know, maybe on gaslighting. I can't really remember how it came up. But basically, she's talking about this article in the gaslighting and I sort of say to my dad,
00:21:48
Speaker
Dad, do you actually know what she's talking about? Do you know what that means? Because I could just tell from the look on his face. He was like, no, no. And I was like, I'll explain where it comes from. I'll explain all about the theatre production that it was taken from, but how it's been taken now and sort of become this really buzz, fashionable word.
00:22:07
Speaker
for what it means these days. And my younger family members just says this hilarious comment of, this is the most millennial boomer conversation I have ever heard. Millennial explaining to a boomer what gaslighting is. And I'm not one to encourage the, you know, cultural wars and identity conflicts, but I think that was hilarious.
00:22:34
Speaker
That is very funny. Funny that someone's so young, I was aware of... I was never aware of these... I mean, I think I'd heard of Gen X? Is that something? When I was growing up? But yes. Funny that everyone has such high levels of awareness now of these concepts. But very sweet that you're a... You're a millennial, I think. Am I? Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering what those white people are talking about. Millennials. I don't want to be such a dick.
00:23:05
Speaker
Sorry, Jenny, what did you say? An old one. I'm the oldest millennial. I just, I just sneak in under the, under the wire. Under the limo bar. Anyway, should we talk about Star Trek? Yes, back to Star Trek. I think it's my turn now. For me to be the voice of discipline as I always am on this. So a moment that I quite liked was for a non-Star Trek reason, but I'll try and break some Star Trek into it.
00:23:34
Speaker
is the scene in Janeway's quarters where she goes, she's been ordered back to her quarters I think to relax and she's winding down and she starts to hear the voices and you know she's asking a computer if there's anyone in there and she's supposed to be alone and mainly I was just like really enjoying having the tour around her quarters because
00:23:59
Speaker
As someone who's now obsessed with interior design, I was like, oh, that's a nice carafe. Oh, I like what they've done in that corner. And there was a great horror moment almost when she tries to open her doors and the character from the holiday theories of the knife, which was good. But I must say I was much more enthralled by her quarters.
00:24:21
Speaker
which I thought were very stylishly designed. And it did make me wonder, and maybe a question for you guys. I mostly watched this episode with a lot of questions. But would you like to live in quarters on a starship? Because I think there's something about that that really appeals to me, especially if it's that well-designed. Can I ask a question for giving an answer?
Living on a Starship - Fantasy vs Reality
00:24:40
Speaker
Are you the captain? No. No, I'm kidding. That wasn't the question. Absolutely irrelevant. Is there a cleaner?
00:24:50
Speaker
Well, yes, that's the point. I mean, yes. OK. Julie noted. It's probably a robot. Jenny, you look ready to answer. Maybe you thought about this before. Oh, I was just thinking that the cleaning would be some kind of like, you know, this is an episode where there's less like a barium sweep.
00:25:12
Speaker
and the scanner runs across. And I'm just imagining some sort of cleaning system. That's exactly how you keep your quarters clean. Anyway, I think they are very unappealing to me.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah I guess I think it's quite claustrophobic and the idea of looking out and I mean I love stars and they look beautiful but the idea of never sort of looking out and seeing the sun and sunrise or sunset is a bit freaky. Although wouldn't you see it in the sorts of windows as you go past stars and things? Yeah there must be all that experience some kind of daylight because there are other stars I guess depending on the place.
00:25:59
Speaker
Oh, I wonder. Well, I'll, okay, that's interesting. Jamie, have you concentrated enough or? No, am I stuck in one point in space in the ship where we like journeying around the place? No, it's you journeying around. How often am I exposed to the level of events that need me to have therapy afterwards, which we can pretty much calibrate at a standard Star Trek episodes events? Let's say once a year.
00:26:29
Speaker
So once a year I'm going to have a series of events which are probably life-threatening and so traumatic I need therapy. Yeah. And do I want to live in this environment due to the nice decor? Yes, that's a good start, that's a good salary. All right, out of interest what do you think my answer's gonna be? Oh I was very surprised, well I wasn't like very surprised but I was kind of surprised by Jenny's answer so I don't think I can predict
00:26:58
Speaker
Okay, Jenny, what did you think my answer was going to be? I really don't know. I mean, I think, I mean, I'd assume that if it was me, I'd say hell no, because I don't risk my life. I mean, I'm not in a high risk career or anything. So I don't know if it particularly suit my personality. I mean, I love the idea in fantasy land of going off adventuring and having high risk adventures.
00:27:26
Speaker
All of that, but I imagine it would be quite traumatic and exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Can I ask one further question? Last terrifying question. Sure. I think you mean clarification actually, but okay.
00:27:48
Speaker
Do I get therapy provided as part of my medical insurance on this ship experience? Yes, there's a counsellor on board.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, but do I have to pay for the money? No, that's another thing. You never have to pay for anything. Well, that changes everything. I mean, wow. This started as like a design question and we've really veered off. So maybe I should answer. Well, no, I'm still pondering it. There's a lot of variables here. In the words of the Big Lebowski, this is very faceted.
00:28:20
Speaker
I think we should remove the variables. Jamie, you've got two choices. You can have living in the quarters on the starship, or you can just live in a two-bed flat in London. Exactly the same stuff will happen to you, like the same amount of trauma. The same stuff. Whether that's low or high. The same amount of trauma.
00:28:41
Speaker
Yeah, but not the same level of medical insurance cover. I'd go for the ship. Yeah, even that is the same. Everything else is the same. Oh, well, that changes everything. Gosh. I mean, how much access do I have to, you know... Okay, no more questions. Have guns of a futuristic nature. I'm going to answer for Jamie. I think he would love it because he wants to live on a canal boat. Ah, yes. Very good point.
00:29:09
Speaker
Apparently the theme of gaslighting continues as I've been robbed of my voice. Robbed? You just had three minutes asking questions. I've lit nowhere. And yet I never got to give my answer. Maybe there's a lesson there for all of us. I don't know what it is, but it's good to sound really pompous now and again. Well, I'll go quickly and then you can give your answer.
00:29:30
Speaker
Um, I think I find it very appealing. Like I can't, I would love to live in the Barbican as well. Um, and, but just how well everything's designed, how everything's taken care of, how probably limits it. They don't have a lot of stuff. So very minimalism wear the same thing every day. It's kind of straightforward. Um, everything's taken care of. So in that way.
00:29:54
Speaker
And I did think everything was, maybe not necessarily to my taste design, but everything is so beautifully designed, like intentionally designed. So in that way, I do find it appealing. There are a lot of benefits to that, I must admit. And I did really like her little side table with the carafe and the two little glasses on the kind of built-in coasters on the table. I mean, I really noticed a lot in this scene. So yeah, that's my asset. Jamie, any final thoughts?
00:30:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, asking a question is more dangerous than it used to be. That's my final thought. That's my final, I'll never do that again, but I have two more questions for this show. Sorry, it's been too long since I completely derailed this podcast and indeed since a friend plotted my murder. So we've done one full circle, I think. So Jenny, we're coming back around to you.
00:30:57
Speaker
I won't do any more tangents in that case. I seem to be focusing on really tiny details. That's great. I just can't help thinking, and this is not the only episode that I ask myself this question. It's a completely trivial, unimportant question, but so many times and so many reasons.
00:31:13
Speaker
Are you ready for another point of thought?
00:31:23
Speaker
I mean, I actually think, I have a lot to say about this, so I want you to ask this question. Yes, go ahead. Well, I just, I can't understand why they don't have a holiday changing room. Like, did Janeway walk through the entire ship in her full blown gown costume? Because I've got to say, if I was going off with some, you know, like holiday, fun, away time on the holodeck, and I was going to be in some, you know, story that required a costume,
00:31:52
Speaker
That would really put me off having to walk alone in costume through the ship. I'm not sure I would use the holodeck in that case. Yes, I mean, I have to say to jump in is that when I saw her in that costume in her quarters, I was like, why is she having to put this on here? I mean, I didn't think I'm having a change room. Brilliant. But also it made me think like, oh, I didn't realise they had to have costumes to go into the holodeck.
00:32:16
Speaker
And then that actually takes away from some of my wanting to live on a ship because do you have to stall all your costumes or do you, can you just recreate them each time you need them? Given the amount of use that these places get as well, I mean, you could replicate the costume, but there must be times on, you know, low action shifts where like the place just looks like Comic Con or a reenactors convention as people just troop to and from the holodeck.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yes because Jenny we're gonna see some episodes in the future where they all go to that Irish village at the same time. It's always an Irish village. I mean I understand that it must be quite common to see people in costume wandering through the corridors and so maybe people are just used to it but still it takes away from the sort of privacy level. You know if you like read like a fantasy book a certain amount of that
00:33:14
Speaker
is just you in the book, you know, and that's what's so enjoyable about it. You're off in your own little world and it's just an adventure just for you at the time. Obviously I realise most people, there'll be like millions of other people reading the same book too, but do you know what I mean? It's got that element of solo adventure and I think it would take it away a bit for me if I act and like broadcast it to the entire ship by wearing the costume and striding through the corridors to the holiday.
00:33:44
Speaker
I mean, yeah, I really felt like I got a surprise when I saw that she had to change before she went to the holodeck. And so I tend to agree. And also it's like, given that some people think a lot of people use the holodeck for, you know, personal, private matters. Do they just walk around and they roam? There's an argument that Jane waited just that when she snobbled Lord Burleigh.
00:34:11
Speaker
Yes, yes. People walking around in there like Playboy Mansion robots. Or their Playboy Bunny. Has no, I mean, one has to imagine that that particular simulation was banned because otherwise, I mean, there are young people in, you know, the echelons of the crew and someone will have a Playboy Mansion app.
00:34:36
Speaker
Tom Parris springs to mind. No, no, he does classy French snooker houses slash brothels. Well, well, and actually, too, though, because, you know, when he gets his porn far, he needs to mate. Yeah, exactly. Well, I love that you brought that up, Janie, even though you think it's tiny, but it's really, it did bump me and it's a very good point.
Character Hallucinations and Relationships
00:35:06
Speaker
Agreed. Agreed. How would you feel, Jamie, strutting around in your 18th century Lord Burley costume or something? What have you on?
00:35:15
Speaker
I love the way that you voice that in the way that makes it sound as though I actually have one, as opposed to a hypothetical one. You're not going to mission out of me that easily, young Red. I think I'm all for enactment and things like that.
00:35:36
Speaker
I mean, you're going around a spaceship with a bunch of people who look like they're in costume anyway, and I'm not only talking about the human members of the crew here, let alone the aliens, so why not, yeah. Ah, so you wouldn't think... It's like, dress as though you're going for a joust.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think me and Jamie, I think we're more similar. I feel a bit inhibited, but Jamie, you sound like, you'd be like, oh no, this is just how it works. You know, there's a natural reaction when you're wearing something strange to be a bit like, I look like a dick at the best of times, but then you just, you just got to embrace it and get on with it, haven't you? Good life advice. And on that note, Jamie, are you ready to give us another top three?
00:36:18
Speaker
Okay, yeah. I like the fact that at the stage where Janeway was worrying that she was losing her mind, she proceeded to handover command to Chikote and did so in a way that was reminiscent of every single project management handover ever, where far too much detail has been given and then the individual feels the need to reinforce everything with a verbal cue.
00:36:46
Speaker
in a way that's neither helpful nor even intelligible because you just can't remember that much stuff as the person on the receiving end of it. So I really enjoyed that. That just felt a bit like Gen Z workplace in Star Trek vessel. Yeah, Jenny, anything to add? I see you giggling. Yeah, I completely agree. It is sort of standard, typical.
00:37:11
Speaker
project manager type handover. Oh yes and I forgot this and then this oh and then yes this is the other thing you know I mean I would possibly say bad project manager. We do hang on there's one rule on this podcast and one rule only Jenny and that's that we do not question the redoubtable Janeway.
00:37:33
Speaker
I will not have her good name bought into disrepute by your sub-average knowledge of project management procedures from an entire career as a project manager. Um, well, yes, even I have to agree for the record with you, not with January.
00:37:53
Speaker
I have to, yeah, I did find that scene very relatable. And yes, it wasn't, she wasn't at her finest. But it was also, it did also remind me about like, before you go on holiday, all the stress of just handing over on holiday. Like, is it even worth going on holiday? Because you have to like, remember everything to tell someone else. So. Think and ink, Red. Think and ink. Yes. I mean, all that stuff could be written down. So. Yes, Jenny. Go ahead.
00:38:25
Speaker
Just because of the delay, I'm just sort of having to put my hand up. I do apologise. I would just like to clarify one point. When I was saying bad courting management, I was not referring to Jamie. No, she's fabulous. Oh, what's Jenny wrote back from this one?
00:38:42
Speaker
I'm definitely really back. Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, I was thinking about in our kind of workplaces where, you know, a natural text summary that the person can then work through is going to be probably more helpful. But to be fair, if you're on a ship like that and stuff's coming up, you know, day to day, you know, hour to hour, very quickly, you probably could do with a bit of a verbal run through as well. Therefore, Janeway is still excellent at her job. Yes, I also want to add,
00:39:12
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Sorry. Maybe because of the delay, but I agree. And there was a point when she was rattling all that stuff off, when I was like quite impressed that she kept all of it in her head or, you know, she hadn't let anything slip through. Uh, so. Absolutely. Yes. Back to our rule. Don't criticize it, Janeway. That's all the Fight Club is. Don't criticize Janeway. Um, cool. Are we happy to move on?
00:39:40
Speaker
I think it's my turn. Oh, Jamie, what do you want to add? I want to know why Jenny's putting her hand up every time to interrupt instead of just interrupting over us. Well, I do love the hand raise and I'm going to try use it myself and I really, really strongly encourage you to do the same, Jamie. I just called you Jamie, I think, I apologise. That's what we were laughing at. Jamie's demonstrating the finger raise, which is not required. No, it's a hand raise.
00:40:10
Speaker
The, what's it called? The single finger salute or something. I don't know, I've heard that term before. The bird. The bird, yes. Okay, I think it's my turn. And I think maybe Jamie, you already mentioned this and it's kind of going back to the beginning, but I did really like that scene where, just before Jamie goes on her first business lunch, I think. Business lunch. Where she's introduced to the concept of corporate America and London. I don't know.
00:40:40
Speaker
Yeah. You know, she's so on edge. She walks into the bridge and she's stressed and Neelix immediately is like, and she wants to have that meeting with him finally. And she's like, he's the one that suggests the business lunch. And I like the way she like looks for reassurance and Tuvok and Harry and they all like encouraging her like, yeah, no, you can do that. It's, you have our permission. And then she's like,
00:41:04
Speaker
she kind of relents and agrees to this mess hall lunch. And you can see Chiquote is very happy that she's like, because I guess they worried that she's not taking care of herself. Because we find out she hasn't eaten for quite a long time. And it's just sweet that A, they are like, yeah, go ahead. B, that she kind of looks to them for that permission, even though she is the captain. But I guess she's so used to being just very strong. And that might be like the first time that she's done something that's not just purely work focused.
00:41:34
Speaker
Um, during work hours. Um, and yes, Jamie, I'm going to give you a chance. I see your finger rising up to the ceiling, but yes, I did like, again, Jamie, like you said, some of your moments, very tiny. This is very tiny, but I thought it was very sweet.
00:41:47
Speaker
is, although I'm almost, I'm not sure I interpret that scene the same way as you read. Oh, okay. I don't think that she's looking for reassurance from them. I think she's looking for them, to them to try and help her with a way out of going down and eating Neelix's cooking. So yeah, I interpret it. And they're laughing because she can't get out of it, but they're laughing in a supportive way because it's also good for her for all the reasons you outlined.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, but she can't, she replicates something in the missile. She doesn't have to eat the annex's food. Yeah, but I think he says... I think it would be a bit rude, Red. If you come round to us and you don't eat your food because you're replicating something for yourself, that's... Well, that's really funny because now I'm re-seeing that scene in my mind and I could just see Harry's face and he's like... Yeah. But he's like, maybe that wasn't encouraging. Maybe that was like, if you can handle it, you should go.
00:42:38
Speaker
This is the problem with the subtle, the subtle acting expressions is that you don't know what they are. Well, maybe I wasn't...
Cuisine and Cultural Critique
00:42:45
Speaker
Go ahead. I, well, I, I interpreted Simba's Jamie, because I think Neelik says, come on, Captain, I've got a wonderful array of lunch and food, a feast, if you will. And then at that point, she sort of looks. I think my interpretation of T-Voc was
00:43:04
Speaker
you know, grimacing. And a two book, what is he? He's not playing a Vulcan. A Vulcan grimace, the equivalent of Vulcan grimace. And then Harry's look is kind of, it's really bad. So I think we've learned something about me, which is I desperately need people to give me permission to do anything that's not strictly within the code of code. And we need to talk about this whole
00:43:34
Speaker
running a podcast thing that you've been up to lately, right? As far as I know, corporate hasn't cleared that. Oh, yes. Well, there's no corporate in my personal life. So that's good. But it is funny, because now I could see what you're saying. And I can totally see the scene the other way. But I think I've also been like a bit reprogrammed by
00:43:54
Speaker
the actor who plays Paris, because, you know, on the podcast, the Delta Fliers, at one point he gets really sick of all the jokes they make about Neelix's food. So I think I've kind of changed as in to adopt a more like Neelix positive food approach. But actually, so I was like, why are they making jokes about his food? Isn't his food actually fine? And I have been trained out of just thinking his food is terrible. And that's always a joke. Always the butt of a joke.
00:44:25
Speaker
So, um, but yeah, that was funny that we all saw it slightly different way. So do we have enough comments for another round? Um, I, oh, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. Okay. I, I just, yes, we definitely do. Cause Jenny's got some shocking stuff to bring up. Jenny, back to you. Oh, wow. I didn't realize it was shocking. Um,
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah, shocking for the viewer. It was jolly interesting to see that when they're all sort of having hallucinations about, you know, their darkest desires, that the larnest darkest desire was to get off with Chikote. Yeah. I don't think I ever really predicted that before this before. Oh, no, I thought that might be there. I thought that could be there.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yeah, I was not a fan of it. You know, I'm glad they didn't follow through with that. Yeah, I didn't. Those two together didn't seem quite right. And then I just thought later on that Alana and Harris just that was a brilliant story. So what did you guys think? Well, I think I'll try to see. I think as a kid, when I watched it, I would be quite happy for them to end up together.
00:45:47
Speaker
But like I was never, I don't think I remember, you know, I've told you about the JC shippers, the people who want Jamie and Shikote to get together. And I was like, no, Jamie's never gonna get together with anyone. She's the captain. So sorry, Jamie. I mean, this is all like as a child. But yes, I mean, it was kind of shocking, not shocking, but yes, kind of like, oh, what's happening? She has had the hallucination.
00:46:17
Speaker
And maybe it was just a way to test that, explore it from a TV writing perspective and engage people's reactions. And probably most people reacted as being like, ah, no. And they went in another direction. But for anyone who was hoping they would get together, that would have been a fun moment, although not a very long-lasting moment. And yes, I think
00:46:45
Speaker
Yeah, maybe we'll discuss these streams a little bit more later on. But yeah, I thought it was fun to see, but not like a couple I was rooting for. Not fun to see, but like a fun experiment. Oh, that genie's out of the bottom, right? That genie is out of the bottle. I mean, I was kind of shocked when they went from kissing and engineering to like being thrown on the bed. And for a while I was like, whoa, what is happening? This is Star Trek. Yeah, like a bit more horrible than
00:47:16
Speaker
like you typically get from Star Trek I totally agree that was yeah not nice yeah anything else to add there
00:47:32
Speaker
I mean, again, sort of in the in the ballpark of events that would probably need therapy if you experienced them yourself, if you were Bolana, but neatly sort of glossed over by the requires of the plot narrative. No, I think you guys have gotten it really.
00:47:52
Speaker
Oh yes, it did remind me. I did find, I was pointed to some, I know, but I started talking first, so I'll finish my point. Thank you. Um, it does remind me of some, uh, a therapy of dreaming that I came across recently, which is that dreams are there to discharge, like emotional charge from the day that wasn't like followed through. Um, and so I was like, Oh, is, does this mean that we'll get to it a bit later, that this is something that, oh no.
00:48:22
Speaker
She's gone. Let's give her a moment. Oh no. She's back. She's back. She's back. Jenny can left the building returns. Sorry. She's like the alien. I'll just say this theory of dreaming, which is like, it's getting rid of emotional discharge kind of actually ties in with this episode, because I guess if you think about the hallucinations, but Jenny, you had your hand raised. Oh, she's frozen again.
00:48:52
Speaker
Can you hear me? Oh, Jenny, you had your hand raised. Yes. I did. Yes, we can hear you. Can you guys hear me? OK, yes. Yes. I feel like this is... I can raise my hand if you need me to. ...this disastrous work calls where everyone says, can you hear me? No, can I hear you? Blah, blah, blah. I mean, the only other point I was going to add on to the Volana Chiquote experience was that it does lead to, I think, a really nice scene, which I really enjoyed at the end, which is where Volana is discussing with Jane Way.
00:49:22
Speaker
what they both experienced when they were having these hallucinations, without actually saying what happened. And I just felt it was like a really nice little Janeway, but on a bonding moment. And, you know, insightful advice from Janeway there too, when these things that have been uncovered that are, I guess, repressed desires, it's better to stare them in the face, you know, than try and push them down and bottle them up. But yeah, I just thought that was quite a nice little scene between two of them.
00:49:52
Speaker
Yes, I agree, because it reminded me a bit of that scene with Niex and Shikote when Niex found out that Shikote also got jealous and it wasn't the end of the world. Because in this scene, I think Belona is the first one to hint at that she had her dream or her hallucination, if it's tied to her desires, that is kind of very revealing or sort of something very uncomfortable or deeply buried. And Jamie has said something like, me too, I had the same experience.
00:50:23
Speaker
And there is something strangely embarrassing about having like a very personal dream or a dream that is like, I don't know. I don't know if you ever wake up from a dream and be like, oh, why did I dream that? That's so awkward or that's so whatever. So I felt like I could relate to them, but I also agree that it was a really nice and nice scene that they shared. Jamie, do you want to add anything or dive into your next point?
00:50:49
Speaker
No, I had nothing. I was sort of, I was in agreement with you. I, uh, yeah. Okay, great. So you're up next. What does that mean?
00:51:01
Speaker
For your point, like we do every round, every episode was so fun. You just seemed so keen to get me into it. I was like, I'm going to play along. I'm going to make them wonder if this is one of those moments. My ADHD kicks in. My attention wave is, don't just repeat something someone said 30 seconds before. You did do that and congratulations.
00:51:22
Speaker
So I just thought that I would see this as one of those moments when my attention wandered, my ADHD kicked in and I repeated something someone had said 30 seconds before. I'm not doing that. I really sort of liked my final HR point, which was
00:51:40
Speaker
going from where we are which is close to the end of the episode to back to the front I think that someone in Starboard HR should look at the spans of command and management practice if the skipper is needed to sign off on every little decision that she was talking about at the start of the episode I think this demonstrates a negatively ratioed span of command and someone should have a word
00:52:09
Speaker
Good point. Definitely. Sorry, I just thought that I'd come away from my persona of corporate landia on previous points so it was important to you know go back to form. No, I love the management lessons from... Do you have any more of your top moments that you'd like to talk to us about?
00:52:37
Speaker
I only have one, I had two questions, maybe, but I wanted Jenny for the one question and now she is gone. Oh no. Do you want to prep me for how I should respond to the question without giving me my answer? No, but what did you think? Calm, contemplative, enthusiastic, supportive, confronta- sorry. I want your genuine reaction. It's quite genuine in inverted commas reaction to this. What did you think of the cucumber sandwiches?
00:53:05
Speaker
That's a very intellectual point. No, I mean, how they looked. That's outrageous, Red. Oh, no, you. We're not practicing responses. You're actually asking me a question without Jenny here. Questionable. They just were like playing bread with... playing cucumber. That's not really a cucumber sandwich, is it? But then, are we really expecting...
00:53:29
Speaker
an alien and a hologram to do perfect cucumber sandwiches. Although I did notice, and you might call me to task on this, you had the sort of square edge of the bread, but then the cucumber protruding... Exactly! And they haven't been cut, like, flush with it, so I think that's bad cucumbering, frankly. Well, that's what I wanted to know. Well, yeah, but on the flip side of it, it did look like it would
00:53:52
Speaker
work. Oh yeah, it was edible. A production of the importance of being earnest. Oh, okay. Which cucumber sandwiches are hugely important, so. Okay. Yeah, awkward. Not really sure here, to be honest with you. Well, let's wait for Jenny and see if she comes back and I'll ask her. Yeah. I might just come over here. Okay, my wife has come to join on my podcast and I'm going off earphones, off headphones. Do you want to just do it off mine?
00:54:21
Speaker
Okay, yeah. Folk, we are off headphones. Jenny Kan is in the room. Jenny Kan is officially in the same room as her husband. She's doing it. Oh, look at you guys. It's so cute.
Literary Parallels in Holodeck Programs
00:54:34
Speaker
Jenny, I was just, my last point was just two questions. I've already asked Jamie, but what did you think when you saw the cucumber sandwiches?
00:54:42
Speaker
Um, do you know what? My head is entirely right now only filled with how amazing your connection is. I'm in the next room and like all I was getting is snippets. I mean, there's a dishonest and an honest answer to that. Which would you like? Have you been sabotaging my wife the next time? Uh, no, the, the dishonest answer is I've just closed all the pornography when you came in. Oh, I'm glad there's an explanation. Now, um, the cucumber sandwiches, um,
00:55:10
Speaker
As a British person, did you think they were an accurate reflection of cucumber sandwiches? Oh. I mean, I was confused by why they were on top of a layer of cucumber. But other than that,
00:55:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's, I'm not sure I've ever really had cucumbers. Actually, they do do them at Henley. Yeah. I would like to just pause a second here, because we're talking to someone who, every week, the one item on the shopping list, which if I forget it, I get hung out to dry, is cucumber. I love cucumber. Who eats cucumber on a week daily basis. And are you telling me you've never put that into a sandwich?
00:55:52
Speaker
No calorie, it's hydrating, it's delicious. I have a cucumber salesman. Wow, I've learned something new. But without being in a sandwich, you've never made it in a sandwich. Yeah, I just never made just cucumber in a sandwich, that I find a bit weird.
00:56:07
Speaker
I find this assertion very suspicious from someone who makes me buy as much cucumber. I dip it in hoover's and stuff, you know. I do know that he's not having had it before though I do I am still very much aware that it's like traditionally British stable but I think it's more like if you're having high tea at the rich.
00:56:29
Speaker
No, I just thought they looked a bit sloppily made. And as Jamie pointed out, it's like there's a lot of cucumbers sticking outside of this. Well, it's actually it's so true. It's sad, which making it's not as though anyone, you know, put any effort things back then they still. Well, OK, moving on from cucumbers, something I wanted to ask Jenny and Jamie, Jamie, you can tag along. No, most probably also like, you know, but the holiday that she's she's in that reminds me of a novel.
00:56:59
Speaker
Like a, um, Oh yeah. What is this?
00:57:04
Speaker
which one I think of, yeah. I think it's a few different ones. I think part of it is a little bit like, he's a bit like Rochester and Jane Eyre, I think it is. But also I think it has like overtones of like Rebecca, also in an overall role. What is the one where the guy does have his wife upstairs in Norway? Oh, which one is that? Great Expectations? No. Mrs. Hamisham is upstairs in the
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah, but he's not hiding away his crazy wife.
00:57:36
Speaker
I think that's Jane Eyre, isn't it? Okay, yeah. They are all quite, it's that genre, isn't it? Yeah. Climb period. It's a weird thing to program as a romance. And then there was a follow on, a novelist wrote The Wide Sargasso Sea, and it was like a modern take on, from the perspective of his wife. Oh, interesting.
00:58:04
Speaker
I haven't been able to find it while we googled so that's annoying. Okay well that is helpful because it's like I was plucking at the memory of my mind for once with a better expression but I think you're right it's probably a combination of different different ones but it certainly has elements that are very recognizable. Just can't not can't remember what they I can't remember distinctly.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah, because I think, um, on the one hand, it's, um, it's, if it is Jane Eyre that has a crazy, he actually does have a crazy wife upstairs. Um, but then I think Jane Eyre's novel also has these like sort of supernatural overtones. And I think that's a little bit more like, um, like Rebecca, because in Rebecca, the wife is actually dead. Oh, yes, but still having a revenge. What's that?
00:58:54
Speaker
Yeah, the new wife is sort of imagining like her presence is still there. Do you know, I think it's probably a few because now I'm thinking it's similar to other ones as well. Well, that was my final, not point, but I had a couple of questions so I just wanted to get them out of the way. I think we're ready to move on to themes. Jenny, you're nodding so I'm gonna make you cook us off.
00:59:20
Speaker
Oh dear, teach me not to nod. No, I think I didn't have many, but that could be just my sort of slightly tired brain this week, other than like perception of reality and holding on to your sanity and the terror of losing your mind and all those things. Jamie? Very similar to Jenny in the
00:59:47
Speaker
need to understand the truth as you understand it and the limitations of our ability to grasp that. And I know that that sounds very like the nature of reality. Obviously gas lighting because we've been there a few times in passing with this episode. That's fine, you don't have to have more.
01:00:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was more one that I lived than I thought of themes, which feels like unusual, given it was, you know, again, The Matrix, but on Star Trek. Yeah, for me, I think there's only like, I mean, yes, I think I definitely agree with what you said. But for me, the main theme that, well, I didn't really stand up, but for some reason I picked it up, I think was like personal strength, because at the start, we have Janeway, who's like, very, like, she just seemed very strong, even though she was struggling.
01:00:40
Speaker
And then strong enough to realize something's going wrong and get help and kind of make the right things. And then also we haven't really discussed the end, but Kez is able to remain focused on her mission and not get distracted by all the hallucinations that are already starting to mess with her. And as you can actually see them lose character as they get angry and her personal strength to kind of execute on her mission again.
01:01:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's usually a really good point, right? We didn't even discuss that whole scene, which was quite a big key scene where I actually, I mean, I didn't enjoy the past
01:01:19
Speaker
Oh no, yes. The weird, plus foam weird boils here. Moving from loving Neelix, just waiting to, you know, really weird. Scary Neelix. But I did really enjoy the elements of that, like that she was able to just like, using her mind, basically just undo this villain alien, and that then she was able to see his true form, potentially. Yeah. Or there's a twist at the end, where he sort of disappears.
01:01:49
Speaker
But that whole scene, I just thought I quite enjoyed that. I even enjoyed the evil Neelix because it's quite a cool take on someone whose character is usually so opposite to that and bubbly and silly. Yes, he's very ominous when he's like, he says something like, you're getting annoying now or whatever. Yeah, that's weird.
01:02:11
Speaker
The alien is so horrible at the end as well, the whole, why would you do this to us? Because I can. And a horrible thought, isn't it? Like someone with telepathic abilities can just choose to go rogue and just to invade your mind and give you hallucinations just because they feel like it. Yeah, I mean, I guess that does tie in with the theme of the gaslighting, right? Some people will do that just for kicks.
01:02:40
Speaker
Very interesting episode. And finally, star player. I'm happy to go first if you're still thinking.
01:02:51
Speaker
I mean, I've got mine. Oh, kick us off, Dean. I think we've touched on it. Kez, I think, was amazing. Yeah. And very much sort of saves the day. I do like the fact that the Captain goes really brutal and it's going to go badly for you, young Serar, to the gaslighting alien at the end. But, you know, that's a different one. So it still Kez for me. Kez, very good. We're the winner.
01:03:19
Speaker
What's your guess for you? Sorry. No, I was also leading towards Kiss, so now I can't remember if I can pick Kiss as well, or have to come up with someone else. But yes, I really like her strength in the final scenes. And it's also laying the groundwork for her telepathic abilities, which are going to grow over the series. Yeah. Okay, I would say Kiss, but I'll give an honourable
01:03:45
Speaker
mentioned to Tom Paris because he was able to resist the hallucination for slightly longer than everyone else because he didn't have a good relationship with his father. He was like, I won't look at that screen because I'd rather not. I don't want to see my dad. But then eventually he got sucked in. So he can't be the star player, but good try. Yeah. You know, we know I'm not going to say that. So Jenny, I think it's the final one.
01:04:13
Speaker
Well, then that leaves me happy to say Jeng Wei in that case, because yeah, it would have been between her and Kez because I do really like the whole storyline that follows where Kez is exploring her telepathic abilities and then sort of becomes actually really powerful in nature series and that's pretty cool. But I did think this was some nice action from Jeng Wei. Yeah, agreed.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, she had a little fight scene. That was a stunt. With the knife man. Yeah, with the knife matron. Knife matron. Very good. We got through our technical difficulties. Anything else to add? Only to ask in true form, true to character this episode, did we read? Did we what?
01:05:10
Speaker
actually get through those difficulties or has this all been in your head? Oh my god please no! Like waking up and you think you have to move and pack or something you wake up you're like oh my god that was a drink. Oh no that was my Tuesday. Oh yes. I feel like playing us out with the other jingle. I can't remember what it sounds like but I'm gonna try it. Do you? I'm gonna have to do some of the editing anyway. Do you think?
01:05:40
Speaker
That's what he said. My goodness, this is not on camera. See you soon and have a happy Easter. Can you hear us? Going from the other side.