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We watch "Resistance" (S2 Ep.12)
15 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Resistance" (the first episode written by Lisa Clink!) in which Janeway has to navigate a tricky situation with compassion, so she can rescue her crewmates from torture and interrogation.
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at [email protected].
Theme music by Alain D
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Oh!
Introduction and Theme Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Okay, Jenny, a little bit of an intro for you as we moderate-taste today.
00:00:11
Speaker
put You even get some seed. Uh, let's see. Feel free. Okay, over to you, Jenny. I think I have. Okay, thank you. Right, so I'm moderating for you lucky listeners out there and after that beautiful theme music surrounds selected by our wonderful founder of this podcast, Red, I'm going to hand over for a one-minute summary to Jane. I love the way that you say that as though my name is in doubt. We've known each other over 12 years and
00:00:48
Speaker
and not just a professional capacity and you're still struggling to remember
Jane's Star Trek Recap and Personal Insights
00:00:51
Speaker
my name. It's my doubt of really knowing what's supposed to come next, even though I have the list of what's supposed to come next. quite bed So don't worry, it's not even doubting. it's been na Well, if you're struggling as to what comes next, I'm struggling even more with this one than it's summary because I haven't in the amount of kitten poo chasing I've been doing in the last two hours, I haven't actually had time to think about this. But in essence, Captain Janeway and the crew are stranded on a hostile planet, police by a sinister quasi ah-state entity called the Makra, who frankly break them up in what seems to be an illicit substance deal, arrest some of the crew,
00:01:41
Speaker
Janeway wakes up to founda find herself in the home of an alien who deludedly believes that he is her daughter, and we go through the journey of the crew as they try and rescue their skipper and fellows. How does that sound as a one-minute summary? Very good, thank you. sounds nice Did I get the name of those sinister quasi-police state rights as well? Yeah, Makara or something. Makara? Sounds like Okra. Yeah, it's like a species from Stargate SG-1, which is not typically the phonetic vibe of Star Trek, but I like it. You know, I'm quite, before we go on to the one cool thing, I quite like the fact that Star Trek I do find tends to try and weave in a lot of linguistic sounds from different languages around the world in general. So maybe I should add that to my list of
00:02:39
Speaker
comments for this. Oh yes, there we go. So slight deviation there. Anywho, one cool thing, I believe a certain someone this red might have one. Yes.
Podcast Growth and Sharing Decisions
00:02:50
Speaker
Well, I thought I would just do a little deep dive on our very limited analytics ah for you. We had a viewer. Well, we did, we did pass the 550 downloads in all time. uh or 500 specifically so now we're on 550. I think in the last month alone which I have to say I think it's not bad considering how consistent inconsistent we are but we had 44 downloads because I released three new episodes so we had some new downloads 44 downloads of three episodes I don't think that's bad that's insane that's like over 10 an episode I was like
00:03:28
Speaker
I would be surprised if anyone downloads us and listens to us ever. Well, downloading is very different to listening, but we have, I don't know if I have any visibility on that, but also wanted to add that some new countries have added been added to the mix. sir Welcome Canada. Welcome India. Welcome Sweden. oh Sweden is probably Rachel. Hi Rachel. And then you know how we were very focused in Portland, Oregon, the States. And I was worried there was some kind of glitch in the matrix that was causing that. But we've now, we had like over, I mean, this is all time, but like nearly 60 or something downloads in South Carolina and Virginia. So. Wow. Maybe they really like our British accents. And by all I mean, Janice, because mine is just obnoxious. well and the south african
00:04:20
Speaker
Well, no, no, wait, America's Love are well known for their British accents, so I support this. So um yeah, I just thought that was interesting. It's very interesting. Wow. Well done, Red. and So you can't see listens then, you could just see downloads. I'm not sure how to interpret it because I guess I haven't looked too closely and I just, I'm taking a step at face value because again, I haven't, I'm not like an expert on this, but what I've heard like vaguely is that it's kind of hard to have true stats on podcasts. It's like a harder medium to track. I don't know why, but, um, but then another thing about this, there is some graph that shows like, I guess how much of the episode people listen to you or but listening. So maybe I can dig deeper into that for next time. I'd love to hear that part of me really wants to find out about these people, but part of them is possibly is really worried about, you know, what I might find under this particular rock. I wonder if we could set up like an arm's length email account, you know,
00:05:19
Speaker
air isolated from our viruses and people trying to steal our identity and just be like, why don't you, you know, get in contact here.
Workplace Accountability and Humor
00:05:27
Speaker
We're very curious about anyone who's downloaded more than twice who isn't personally known to us. so Very curious indeed. Well, we do actually have an email on the show notes that I've put in there. it's just somebody ah So people can find it at email us if they want. But I would be Yes, ah well, yes, kind of, I just assume, but I mean, I feel like you need to have, well, yes, email us if you would like, please and say hi, we would love to hear from you. Should we say what the email is on air or is that, you know, not done? I can't remember if it's it' in the show notes, but I think it might be info at Super Streak or hello at Super Streak. I have this other domain, so I just use it. It's not like Jamie's Children. Jamie, what are you doing?
00:06:14
Speaker
forgot you I could just see jimmyny Jenny. Jenny, bat your hand away from something. yeah Get away from the keyboard. I think Jamie was looking for where the office is so he could say it, but the thing is then he was going to ruin it for you. I'm losing my place in where I'm going next. Thank you very much for that. That is really interesting. I look forward to hearing more about abilities. so I mean, there's something else directly below that. There is! There is something on the agenda, but I don't know if this sounds like... because i cause I feel like you possibly... sorry Oh yes. You did this before we started recording. I did this...
00:06:54
Speaker
I did this off air. I was so mad about two things that my colleagues did that I wanted it to be on record on this podcast. But then I sent a voice note to my sister and I shared one of them with you. And so I feel better now. So I don't have to talk about that. Just thinking about how our listeners would feel getting this insight into, you know, what shouldn't be done in a British corporate tech working culture. Well, I like listening to rants about work, but I feel like this is definitely not, you know those rates where you can see like how much of the episode the listeners listen to think if we start with the work rants.
00:07:30
Speaker
Oh, that's not my concern. I think people would find it fascinating, but I just don't want to identify people. But let's just say, if you're the boss and you've claimed to do something and then someone asks for that piece of work, don't be like, ah, I can't find it. Just admit that you never did it and you sucked it out. The dog ate my homework. Amazing. level Oh, gosh. Okay. Right.
Tone and Emotional Reactions
00:07:52
Speaker
So ah finally, we're on to the actual, you know, episode, which was called Resistance. um Season 2, Episode 12. So, initial reactions. I'm going to go to Jamie first. What initial, just initial reactions? It was, it was interesting. I mean, I felt that, weirdly, the one character who I thought felt really, you know, nailed it was the Mokrat, Sinister Secret police chief. So I think in his interaction with
00:08:27
Speaker
jakota where he's of course we'd like to help you find your colleagues but that may take some time in a sense so I think he absolutely nails the vibe of the sinister secret police state um awful person but the rest of it it just it really lacked a certain if you're going to cover the sort of subject that it does of totalitarian secret police state and oppression of various folk. It just it didn't really feel like it got that vibe for me very well if that makes any sense. I love that about Star Trek, it's always trying to take a light-hearted take on things, but the tone felt wrong for this one. I did enjoy it, but it felt like it didn't quite get it right for me. That's interesting. I feel like we'll delve deeper into that.
00:09:23
Speaker
That's exactly the sort of thing the secret police chief would say to me. We'll delve deeper into that. Sorry, I'm just trying to do this moderation thing. It's going very badly. No, it's going well. It's going well. That's exactly the response you want. Oh, it's red for a little reaction. Well, I think I have a complete opposite reaction to JV. um Also, obviously, I didn't remember what I, you know, set up all the notes and everything, but I didn't remember what the episode was until I played it and I just saw the short synopsis or, um you know, summary you see before. saying And I was instantly just full of sadness and being like, oh, I remember this is really sad. I hope I could get through this. um And I actually, I mean, I don't know if I'm in a very emotional state, but I cried a couple of times in this episode.
00:10:13
Speaker
Um, because it's just, I don't know, you know, uh, maybe this is something that will come up later, but it's just unfortunate that, you know, when, when Star Trek is delving into these things, this episode is 20 years old or 30 years old and there's always a contemporary yeah example of what's going on. Yeah. Um, so I found it and I just think that character, the Kalem, Kalem, this tragic, He's a very tragic figure. I know, but he is, and if you look at, you were to narrate what happens to him, I agree. He has a tragic life, and it's a tragic figure, but the way in which it's almost played for us, and also some of the way in which he's depicted in his interactions with Janeway is, it gets that tone wrong, and it sort of undermines the effect on the gravity that it's getting fortunate
00:11:11
Speaker
to me, I don't know, I i hear you in the story, it's a tragic one, but it's almost undermined by the way in which the past is delivered, I don't know. I think, um yeah, I mean, my initial directions is, Red, same to start with, like, I couldn't remember this one very well, um until it started, um and I sort of remember the whole sad story of the main guest star. I feel like I'm a mix between you two. So I found the end very sad. And it did always fruit is why I and I think there'll be one of my comments later, but part of that is how well acted it was on Janeway's part in the facial expressions. But I also I yeah, I feel like I mean, not to sort of denigrate the the guest star, but
00:11:57
Speaker
The way he played it was kind of creepy. Yeah, God, it was so weird. Creepy. Yeah, like the way he sort of was touching her. Yeah. So it was difficult. like Yeah, that was also a kind of sadness for him and his history. and But he has like, so he's got like, obviously a memory, like, I mean, he's got his own, I guess. ah yeah I get that he has like a memory thing, but it's not that that's in question that you know he's mistaken jamie for his daughter is that having mistaken jamie for his daughter the way in which he interacts with someone he thinks is his daughter is a bit creepy front of me i don't know if it was his daughter yeah this is where i think honest it was his daughter do
00:12:46
Speaker
I wouldn't strongly feel that way because I found the body language and the interactions really, as you say, creepy.
Cultural and Linguistic Elements in Star Trek
00:12:52
Speaker
I'm possibly supposed to tell, isn't it, when you know it's Jane and not his daughter. But if it it was his daughter who he hasn't seen in years and she's been imprisoned or or whatever it was, like, you might be that intense and, you know, sort of grabbing her face. Well, Jamie, I think I mean, I did not pick that up at all. But what I will say is it's TV. They have to be close to each other. So like, as in the limited space of the frame means that people often walk closer. I also think it's like a different era. And that is why it doesn't play quite as well as it would have if it didn't have that sort of creepy edge to it because nowadays, obviously, there's a lot of stuff about them like, for example, in sport, and you know, you've got coaches and they have. Yeah, but he's her father, like, it's okay for your father to be affectionate with you. I mean, he thinks he's her father, right? So yeah. But I think we probably should boob into the next section because we can discuss this then. Yeah, and then we get all into like consent and is it different between really all members and like it's all over me. Well my family just teased me because I always acted like I didn't want any affection but deep down aside, I appreciated the hugs.
00:13:59
Speaker
so give your affection When you know it's actually desired. yeah um so onto um our top moments um each so um maybe i'll just stick with the same order because um i feel like i'm just going to confuse myself but yeah so jamie over to you for your first moment so i i think like this is a hats off to jane way moment now initially i was uh i was tempted to be a little bit uh irreverent and go jane way still got it um but actually i was going to say it's like hats off to her for
00:14:41
Speaker
finding herself in a situation of needing to break into a prison having very few of the typical Star Trek tools and improvising and being able to act and where she sort of acts that she's she's one of the colorful ladies who frequent that planet in order to seduce a guard into making himself vulnerable for Kalem to knock him out. And I was just like, this isn't Janeway in her normal, comfortable space, but, you know, quite impressive. I enjoyed that. My goodness, I totally forgot about that moment. Yeah, that was... Not sure how believable she was, but I loved it. I mean, I thought it was brilliant because, um you know, you're seeing a really different side to Janeway there with her basically pretending to be a prostitute. And it could be quite, um again, a little bit creepy, the whole thing, that this horror, this guard is basically going to paint her.
00:15:34
Speaker
and the sex, but then it, I think they round it off well with once, you know, he's been hit on the head, cocked out. um She sort of makes a joke of it. And then off they go to storm the prison, like, and I think that sort of light hearted end to the scene is, is quite nice. Sorry, I totally took the point. No, I agree. I agree. This is what we're supposed to do to remind each other. It's okay to, you know, react in a human way. We're not too well being tortured. and
00:16:05
Speaker
um much that i'm sure Yeah, she was very good because, I mean, I think as I've shared with you, I mean, maybe I'm growing up now as a 42 year old, but in my, I was like, no one on Star Trek has sex as interested in sex. They like beyond that. um And I know she is a beautiful actress and many people consider her beautiful, but she was just like, That's not really how Ike's, you know, she was this leader, I guess, let's put it that way. That was what, she was strong and everything. But, and when she comes in acting as this, how did you put it, Jamie? Fun girl? I can't remember what it was. A colorful lady, I think was my type of person. Yeah. Jenny was the one who called her a prostitute. Who said the what about your favorite leader? But um first first of all, I was like, oh, I'm not buying this, but then she's so good. She's so seductive. She's so convincing. So yeah, I have to agree with you, Jamie. She's very good.
00:16:59
Speaker
I think that was was a good scene. Oh, there are no good scenes in this one, I've got to say. and I mean, I'd put some notes on my own, but I feel like I'm gonna... You find it very interesting listening to your best notes, right? Right, your first note. Well, I'm gonna skip my first one because I think you're gonna say something similar, but I have a question for Jamie. I was very excited that Neelix actually did save the day. So they were on that planet to get Tellarium. He was the only one that managed to get back to the ship with the Tellarium as they had energy to put their shields back on and everything. And so how did you feel about that? I know he's your least favorite character. I put it down in my notes. Neelix in capsules could get through a drug deal interaction successfully. I know it's not a drug, but it was very close in the way it went down. So yeah, I was like,
00:17:48
Speaker
They seem sort of positioning looks in a rare frame of competence, this one, and I salute and acknowledge it. He seems unusually non-bumbling for Anelix, so we'll go for it. I reckon, no, that's because they've chose a believable thing for him too. Ah.
Character Competence and Rule-Breaking Dilemmas
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, because no one else no one else really borrowing Paris is going to be up for an illicit deal. and Paris just looks too clean cut. Anelix has the practice, is what I'm saying. He has the skill set, because that's basically what he was doing before he found Voyager. So, you know, you see, he's perfectly competent and capable. You just got to give him the right
00:18:28
Speaker
yeah um field to work Yes, where you planted matters. You spend your entire life trying to teach a fish to climb a tree, but spend its entire life feeling it's an idiot. oh Yes, I'm a fish in a tree. I don't know, sorry. I'm a peacock, you've got to let me fly. ah the other guys oh One of my favourite films of all time. You've got to let me roar.
00:18:59
Speaker
Gosh, all that. I really lost my train of thought. Is that, are you done with your notes? Yes. like Okay. So dear, dear, what was one of my notes? Oh dear, I feel like my notes are going to suffer by comparison because my first note is, well, I'll branch out a little bit, but um first off, Janeway's hair. Yes, that was my first note, but I saw we had the same one. I just, I want to pick a part of her hair on this. I just think it's got that extra special the bouffant thing going on up top and it's a long, luxuriant, you know, almost waist length.
00:19:34
Speaker
madam so And she goes into some hardcore combat and the bouffant stays in place, which is very impressive. And then I'm going to expand a little bit. I actually just really enjoyed all the costumes of all the away mission teams that went on the away mission. I just thought it was really interesting and I quite liked them. um green bananas um her boots were pretty cool yeah she just looked pretty cool yeah um like she was going on some actual real mission you know yeah an indiana jones style mission maybe yes i would like to make a point to do with the slater on in the episode oh okay well we'll look forward to that well i would just like to because i have so many little random points here so i'll just add i also
00:20:24
Speaker
I get what you're saying. As I promised many episodes ago, I didn't ever want to talk about Janeway's hair, but I make her it an exception now. I love the ponytail at the back. Also, it's fun to see them in, like, civvies. Like, ah and these were good civvies. And I also like the mopra. I mean, as much as you can like the baddies outfits, but they really convey this malevolence, like, you know, from the minute you meet them. Yeah. There was good costumery, I said costumery, all round. yeah got department all well Well done, well done, well done, well done. Okay,
00:21:02
Speaker
and must um okay great. so Back to Jamie for another point. I would like to leave with my my point, which is the military shoes. I love the fact that that was the thing that Jamie used to avoid actually getting caught by an undercover MOCRA agent who actually tries to score some weapons, um which Again, typically in Star Trek, um where things like these happen, people are caught. But actually, Janeway, again, proves she's a cut above through her ability to interpret military shoes, um which did stick out like a sore thumb there, the fact that they were shiny and sort of ruthless. So I really like that as a scene. I don't know why. And also, I can't believe they didn't think to change the shoes. I mean, I think it's a double eight or, you know, in disguise, undercover.
00:21:58
Speaker
How can you not change your shoes? and um more morera well and Come I also like that scene, but it kind of was a twist for me because when I saw him, I was like, dude, you could not be more obvious that you're a resistance fighter because he looked like so like and looking around like blatantly or whatever. And then it turns out like this twist. So yes, but Janeway was brilliant. You did play suspicious. like uncomfortable wealth, I think. like yeah yeah He was obviously trying to play the, I'm in Star Trek, I'm an actor, but I'm also pretending to be a role in the and the show that I'm not famous. Yes, I think that guy did pretty well. Rent, I think, your next point. Okay, so this is a bit of a random point, but to kind of raise the question, but
00:22:53
Speaker
I thought this was a good, well, the beginning anyway, because I got the impression that Voyager was supposed to have actually got permission to land on the surface, because when they get caught by the Macra, but they used this phrase that I already learned when I got to the UK, a boss that I had, well, she I was not paid, she was the mom, but she taught me the phrase, never ask for permission, ask for forgiveness. And I thought, this is a very good example of that. And I was just curious how you guys felt about that approach to life. I'm not sure I can adapt it, but I thought it was a good example of, That's good. I don' so oh well i was to say, I have heard that phrase i and I feel like there are some people who definitely should not follow that. There's others who do need to follow that a bit more. It's all context. Yeah, I agree. Interestingly, in an absolute classic of fantasy literature, did you guys ever hear of the Eragon series of books? but
00:23:51
Speaker
Is that dreaded? Yeah, it was. That phrase just comes up again and again and again. Best to ask forgiveness rather than permission. Is that when it got drilled into you, Jamie? Because I feel like that's your life for most of me. Given how often I have to apologise, it may be the case, but I didn't think of that sort of person, did you? It's not a bad thing or a good thing. It's just sometimes it can work out, sometimes it doesn't, I think, right? I mean, yeah, I just think you and I wrote a little bit more um interested in the rules. Oh yes, I'm a rule follower. ah mo I don't believe they're meant to be broken. are You have a bit more like funk. No, I don't think it is that because. But it is because there can be cases where like I don't want to get into a whole thing, but it's like if I am somewhere where even if I don't agree with the rules, I will feel obliged to follow them.
00:24:51
Speaker
I weirdly feel that quite strongly, in fact, but people seem to think that I don't feel that. Often try and find a way of sort of circumventing the known rule. but that's not No, that's entirely different because someone who's like asking, who's maybe asking that you're talking about, isn't looking to circumvent, they're just looking to ignore. Whereas circumvention is actually a degree of compliance of actually, I'm not going to you know break this particular rule in the spirit and literal intent by which it was written. but me Maybe that's just smart. Maybe that's just like the next step up. So in the way in which I've avoided saying that I am the sort of person you've outlined is exactly that distinction. I wasn't saying no. I was saying, let's just do something slightly different.
00:25:43
Speaker
I think it's all context, isn't it? And you're definitely not the kind of person I had in mind who um I was saying shouldn't follow that, because I think you sometimes follow that in a positive way. Yeah. as it Sometimes you you just go for the rules and sometimes the great rules and you've done it very well. But I think there are people out there too. I mean, if you're just trampling all over yeah everyone else. Yeah. But it's it's even it's like why you have three kittens and I don't have any. It's not like it doesn't have to be like a big, it doesn't have to be a big, terrible thing. Or indeed, I mean, you know, the sort of person who'd asked to be pushing the project and then reveal after their first meeting that they're immediately away for two weeks
00:26:28
Speaker
yes but asking forgiveness rather. She will be forgiven but she did not ask for permission. Well not because she will be forgiven, maybe not forgotten. Maybe she would ask forgiveness to eat all permission. She probably doesn't even realise. You have to obey this. Yeah I want to hear about this. Also let's find out if we've got any listeners in London because this could be professionally compromising. Yeah. Try and keep it outside of the UK. I did find out that I did something unknowingly many times for which I could be fired today. um But that's a different question. so I'm not going to be. You pretended to be a cop and arrest people. I've arrested people. Many times I've read. I mean, you know, nothing's ever happened. oh know Then we've got a row basement.
00:27:18
Speaker
Now, I'm going to bring this slightly back to Star Trek. I'm sorry guys. I love it when that's not my job. I could just talk to a little rummage and ask them to bring me back. You relax, Red. I'm going to get in charge. them do It's still related to asking for forgiveness, not permission. I agree with the initial point, Red. I felt like there was some kind of like, what do they call it? Like a prelude prologue? I'm sorry that we were missing a little bit in this episode, which I was i would be really interested in. Like the whole um situation, the mockra, the rebel, the resistance, like what what is actually actually going on? How did this come into place? Like, um you know, we learned a lot about their prison like and, um you know, the various security measures.
00:28:06
Speaker
um But then I thought maybe they specifically did that because they wanted the focus to be on the actual human impact on the main, the main guest star guy. um But yeah, you raise a good point because I mean, generally Voyager does pay by the rules. So there is, some big ah either they only have limited time, right? But it's like, why did they choose that option? And like, what is the additional context? and We just know they're like a hostile planet or something. Yeah. um And as you say, I do think it seemed like they they didn't ask permission. I see my own backstory to this, which I just was like, well, I assume this must have happened, is that they um they found they found out they did their research about this planet. um And obviously, they're in a dire situation. There's desperately need for their room, whatever it is. um And they assess that basically there's no way they're going to get it. not most correct with yeah totally hostile um and then i can just i guess i can imagine jamie and that scenario just saying well i'm not just gonna sit here and let my crew all die because we have no other options for getting to their room um so we're gonna we're gonna go for it um okay then that is i mean when you say that it's like that would be a whole interesting i don't know if you could make a whole episode so you could do two parts of but
00:29:29
Speaker
when people are forced to break the rules in a sense, but for the right reason. yeah better breaking the rules we The rules are bad, we followed. I have a blast, I promise. so Just, you know, in the proper manner at the right time. Well, i'm not supposed by an authoritarian secret police regime. regime yeah Um, so my, um, second note, um, was, um, I just quite enjoyed the scene between T. Vulcan and Palana, um, when they were in, in prison. Um, and we're learning a little bit more, or maybe I'm just learning, cause I didn't know this, about Vulcan's pain tolerance. Um, and I just quite enjoyed that sort of chat between them. Um, and she's realizing for the first time that
00:30:27
Speaker
possibly like a lot of people like me, you would maybe assume that Vulcans can, I don't know, withstand any pain, but they just, you know, they repress it and they control. That is, in fact, not the case. They have a certain amount of tolerance for it, but beyond that, you know, as they still student experience pain. And it, you know, humanizes to Vulcan a little bit, um even though he's not human. Yeah, I just really enjoyed that scene. I mean, i I agree. I think it was though not the focus of the story, I enjoyed like those little scenes because they were captured and in the prison wall. And so even that first scene with Tuvok and Balana and she's like, I just wish I knew that they'd come back to the ship with the terrarium because then it'll be worth it. And Tuvok is like, I can't offer you that kind of reassurance. and But he kind of just in that scene reminds us there's no point in imagining the worst because I think Balana also goes to like
00:31:24
Speaker
Jamie could be dead. I think. But he can't give false assurance. You know, he's like, we just got to deal with the facts, which is always a helpful reminder as a human being that he mustn't imagine them. And yes, I mean, then that scene that you're referring to is after I didn't actually quite realize until that scene. But when Blahn is like trying to test whether she can escape, she hears those kind of anguished cries and realizes that was too vox you had been tortured. That's horrific. Do you think that was actually is the actor? It must have been, right? Making the screams. I don't think they actually tortured him. It's called method acting, Jamie. I think they did. He did because he did a good job as it was because it didn't sound like too well. No, I didn't realize that was, yeah. No, I didn't at the time. yeah until yeah um I know. Maybe they knew someone else to make the scream just because it would sound so different. I don't know.
00:32:22
Speaker
Do you audition for that sort of voiceover job? That's a really good question because I think, you know, there's so many times they won't get an answer to do something, I guess, because it saves money. Like if it's the back of them, they have all these stand-ins and all that kind of stuff. So, ah yeah, why not do that? This has reminded me but i'm just gonna of a little anecdote anecdote time. So occasionally in my work, I have to schedule voiceover recordings, voiceover artists, and recently, um there had to be a re-recording. And it was for something, it was a really lengthy piece, but due to regulatory stuff, shall we say, um we had to record to change one word in one section. And this whole massive recording, you know, which is not unheard of in my field, but what was so interesting was that the voiceover artists, even though they were being paid for like the whole studio session time for literally five minutes work, um I was like,
00:33:21
Speaker
Well, that is quite admirable because they actually seem quite unhappy that, you know, and they were keen to say, you know, is there anything, is there any other, can I do it in a different way or something else? Because it must feel quite, um and I'm just thinking about someone auditioning just to do a ah talkr and
00:33:44
Speaker
and sorry but then how it's related to that person is an actor and all actors want to do as far as i can tell is show emotion so i think that someone was like what you want me screen like a tortured prisoner i'm in they go for that yeah they say i'm doing it that's gonna yeah it's it's all good practice but also i thought i mean what did you think about the situation so i'll just bring in one of my other points because i have too many i think but Um, just in general, I think they are in prison.
Resistance and Empathy Themes
00:34:14
Speaker
Do they actually have the names of any resistance fighters? Cause they're in this like Orwellian situation where they're going to be tortured for information they don't have, which is honestly my worst nightmare and likely it will never happen to me. but Yeah. ah ah did yeah that was I was a bit confused about that too. I assumed they don't have the information, but we don't actually know, do we?
00:34:38
Speaker
Um, yes. Cause then I was a bit confused cause two buck was, well, on ah in that scene that you referenced was like, why don't you fight? So what do you mean? He's like, well, there's some times when you can't fight back physically, but we are fighting back because we're not sharing information. Yeah. So actually they probably didn't have information. So maybe they, I mean, I guess they could have said, yes, we bought this from that guy in the markets or something. I don't know. Okay. Back to your point. We didn't necessarily have. Well, the information. and croel lacia in the series or anything that ill No, i maybe I mean, I can understand that, like a background being given as, um, yeah, as something that allows you to build ah a from a sinister phone, but, um, maybe they intended them to come back when it was written.
00:35:28
Speaker
but for whatever reason they changed their minds. Yeah, because I mean, they do seem cool as sinister enemies, but nowhere near as sinister as the Borg, say. Yeah, like the other sort of seasoned, you know, main enemies are a bit more intense, aren't they? There's like, I guess the Cazon and, well, there's reptilian hunter. Oh, yes, oh, lord. We've been still to come, I guess, is it? Oh, lord. Oh, and oh my god, the organ harvester. Oh yes. wow Basically the mocha are never going to live out. They look kind of cool, but yeah. The mocha are just, you know, a responsible security force to keep all of Malay differences and I don't see why we've tasked them in such a native like people. We don't know the background, they might be a good guest today. They needlessly violence, so I think we can do it. It's your final fish point. Is it? yeah So I really love Mel and Hat.
00:36:25
Speaker
Aww. I was like so brave but using, you know, humour. Using, no but using like soft power to diffuse heart and bravery in that moment and I really like that. So having given Caleb all that crap and really stuck a bit it struck a bit of a chord with me. I'm happy because you that scene was... Heartbreaking. Heartbreaking and he's playing along and he he does have issues. But he's much smarter than the Mocha of Realize. And when they put that melon cap on him, because he's saying. And much more worthy as well. Oh, well, I mean, worthy, but goes that goes without saying. would but um And then when he has that dunce, well, it's almost like a dunce cap after that melon hat's put on him. And then he makes that eye contact with Janeway. And you, I mean, if you don't know, you realize he knew exactly what he was doing the whole time. You know, like it was completely intentional.
00:37:25
Speaker
and a distraction to save that resistance guy. A very good scene.
00:37:34
Speaker
I wonder, you've reminded me of a point, I didn't put it in my notes, I put it in themes, because I feel like it's really more of a theme discussion, but it's kind of related to that scene. I'm going to save it, I'm going to save it for themes. Red, what's your, what doesn't have to be your final point? Well, I think, Yeah, I think i I do want to say something about Chakotay, but maybe before then. um So I might have two last points. um But I guess the character of ah Callum, ki I'm sorry, and the communication between him and Jamie, I kind of find it interesting because at the beginning, they're kind of talking at like cross purposes, and she's like trying to get him to understand. And then she kind of learns to meet him, I guess, where he is.
00:38:22
Speaker
And to the point at the end where they haven't seen and she kind of, he's been shot to whatever by the gods. And he thinks he'd find at that point, just before then he finds out that his daughter was shot actually trying to rescue her mother and the mother is dead. And Janeway is able to kind of just give him the closure and say, Oh, no, they lying. I wasn't shot. And she got all the letters and I think, but there was actually one line kind of midway I think, which was what it's all right to understand when he was freaking about, out about like his wife not getting her letters, his letters. And I just thought that was such a good line because I haven't yet um not experienced anyone in my family, whatever that's got Alzheimer's or dementia or something. But you read letters or you read stories and it's difficult for people obviously, but you like, you have to meet that person where they are.
00:39:16
Speaker
Like they can't, you know, they can't get their memory back. You can't like get frustrated. And sometimes people are like want a script or want to know exactly what to say. And obviously this line wouldn't be appropriate in all circumstances, but I just thought like, it's all right to understand. It was such a good line because it was like, you don't have to try to tell this person, oh, no, I'm not that who you think I am. Your wife is dead or whatever. You can just say something short and acknowledge the moment and move on, I guess. so I just really like that. Yeah. She, she adapted. Yeah. She, she did the right thing first, of course, to say, to try and tell her that she wasn't who he thought she was. Obviously you shouldn't do that, but once she's done that several times and it's not working, she changed her tack. And, um, yeah, that's the exact great way of saying it, meeting him halfway. Um,
00:40:12
Speaker
And yeah, that's exactly the overtones I got from it, read the kind of sort of, I feel like it could have been the writing of this, could have been something that was like, or an analogy of someone with dementia or Alzheimer's or even just other mental health problems, you know? And it's even like something you can compare to situations today. The wonders of Star Trek, you know? It's always 20 odd years later. um And a lot of discussion about mental health these days and a lot of like recommendations for how you like interact and help folk and support folk are, I think, compared to what they were 50 or years ago, a lot more of what Janeway does with this guy. He's a nice man. And empathy, you know, as opposed to, I guess, that rebel guy who
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah, he's just... Oh, yeah, well... Yeah, he's not actually... He's not the bad party, he's not the... He's not the Mochra, but he still is saying, oh, just ignore this guy, you know? He's worthless, like, crazy. Oh, yeah. I think... I think he's the worst guy I can think of, because we never found out who the Informal was. I didn't hear that. We never found out who the Informal was, so it could have been that resistive, like, a worse guy than we think. Didn't we see him in prison later? Like... Yeah. He was a plant. Yeah, you might be right. I wonder. No, it's an interesting point. I love it. um Yeah, so in really interesting point. of right And I think, I believe we went to my final point, but I feel like I was just so interested in what you're saying, but I kind of lost a bit where we were. um This is kind of um related, really. And I mentioned it right at the start, but I just
00:42:08
Speaker
really thought Jamie did a fantastic job in interacting when she was interacting with this guy. Because um I think all of the emotion, right well, the the bringing a tear to my eye, it wasn't really so much, um um I'm afraid to say, the guests are dying. It was more her reaction to it, the pain and sadness on her face. And I think for me, it was throughout. that was what held this together as like a good episode. She's just a very expressive actress and I thought she did it very well. It's a very, very sad story he had, but I think she sort of kicked it up a notch. Yeah, Scheher, like, I mean, I only made one, but from the moment where he says, my little girl is home and you see that like kind of expression move across her face to how
00:43:05
Speaker
Yeah, the whole episode and how she adapts and everything. but You can just see everything across her face. It's kind of insane that that's what good acting is. Very, very good and expressive.
00:43:18
Speaker
She's a wonder, aren't you anyway? I'm hungry. Now, I'm going to open it up because I feel like you guys might have had a couple more. I think I've finished my points, but are there any other like last points before we uniform I only have one, I think, that I want to. think Where is it? Where is it? My notes. I mean, I've basically made it. I want to know who the informant was. Who talked? Who talked when I was in? Well, I just want to say that I thought Shikote did a pretty good job as
00:43:53
Speaker
the, in command while Jane waves away. He was very good at negotiating. I thought with that awkward guy, cause he got him to agree to, well, at least pretend to agree that he would be able to speak to, to back and pull on it. He was very good at delegating. Cause when they were like, there's no way we could beam in or out or whatever, he just turned to Harry and feels like, I guess that's a problem for you to solve. I looked pretty happy about yeah make it. Um, um And he used one of my favorite phrases, which was surprise attack. So it was all good. using to use the phraseable surprise attack Well, he said so much for a surprise attack, but surprise attack was one of my favorite phrases as a teenager. So shout out to Krote. I feel like a guy that I had a crush on used the phrase.
00:44:43
Speaker
Uh, I can't really you remember why. No, I wish. Speaking of consent, I do wish. i do that's what you're going to say that you' to surprise a I was always so good around him. So sadly, no. Yeah. Also known as the, um, broadcast and the fly trick from teenagers. a point What did you say? So far ah so that there was a girl at my boarding school who used to mime what a surprise attack looked like in a way that looked very much like a program shooting tongue-out capital as a way of taking the piss out of the context. I feel like in this phrase some of her caught on but I can't remember what we like did when we said it. I mean we used it like amongst friends and stuff. I wish I could remember.
00:45:36
Speaker
I'll have to ask them. Yes, exactly. It was basically just like, surprise attack. This thing where I think there was a period when I was a teenager where people would yell bundle. other it was that good to Or yellow car. yellow yellow car so is her yellow car that yellow yellow car and ah ah be allowed to give it dead arm to the person need yell killer What is this? Bundles? like I've never heard of bundles. Oh gosh yes.
00:46:08
Speaker
pilon and someone say pilon pylon Do people still do that kind of stuff? I mean I was only suffocated like three times. did dis say like I mean it's been a long time since we're teenagers but I'm willing to let you in for and friend my memory of it was that I just watched. yeah You just quietly yelled bundle and then watched everyone. For me there was stuff at night most because I was at a boys' school at a boarding house with dicks and I nearly got suffocated. But we we did it not like for you like it was like a fun thing but sometimes you would just land up on the bottom and then that was quite stressful. It was violent and bloody and bloody and all that. shit Now that's horrible. That's horrible. Oh, this is fun. It was definitely the only context I read. for reasonable but the People chose to join the bundle.
00:47:04
Speaker
That's why I never was in here. I heard someone shout and I always turned to watch. It was interesting, but mostly I was like confused as to why people would choose to join the bundle. ah time found that so i just anyhow and so Uh, do we think there's more points to discuss or do you want to read your scenes? No, I had one other point, but maybe it's not appropriate and Garrett Wong is not here to consent to my point. Well, I feel like you need to tell us now. Well, in that final scene where Harry Kim is debriefing Jane Wayne, she's obviously, um, contemplating this bishop that she just met you in. I thought he looked exceedingly handsome, so I just had to say that. Oh, I have to go back and rewatch it now.
00:47:50
Speaker
change i a stop like
00:47:54
Speaker
i have thought of one also extra point which I completely forgot until you wrote about Shikote Red. um His excellent captaining. Yes. I was just going to agree with that and in particular when I was watching I thought that scene where he was, as you said, negotiating with the mocha guy was really good between the two of them. Yeah. There was so much brilliant kind of struggles. And like I know what you're saying, you know I know what you're saying, and you know I know you know. Yeah. And there's a lot of sort of, and you know, chess. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And it suited Shikote's character as well. Yeah. Like you believed that he would be good at this situation. So anyway, so these I think I've said my main theme earlier, which I wasn't a bit sort of tentative about mentioning, to be honest, because I was like, maybe this is not how
00:48:54
Speaker
others are viewing this episode because I did sort of liken it to, as you mentioned earlier, read perhaps a comment on those interaction with those with mental health problems. And obviously it's a bit of a topic which can be controversial. I don't want to delve into it too deeply, but it just um struck me that it had that note about it and thinking with the people that are in my life who have mental um mental health challenges um it that interaction she had with the guest star did remind me of um of seeing that in real life um in those scenarios um so i felt like maybe that was part was the one of the themes um yeah i mean i think i mean there's also a difference between mental health i guess and like i mean not to put and
00:49:48
Speaker
Alzheimer's dementia, that's a, you know, I think a biological disease. I mean, not like this. I'm not saying that that's what the guy had, but I'm just saying ah there's a bigger umbrella, I guess. But I guess for me, it was like, oh, I hope i if I'm ever in that situation, I can live up to that standard of behavior that she displayed, I guess, the patients and the communication in that kind of situation where she could have been frustrated um and lost patients.
00:50:20
Speaker
So I thought that was certainly one of the themes and something to struggle. Any other themes do you think? Sinister secret police state. Yeah. And you know, importance of not effect, well frankly of frank leo that sort of state being avoided and all the negatives that come from it and the side harm and You know, the cruelties that go along with it. To me, that came through quite strong alerts. I mean, I think it's part of the Star Trek sort of canon, that sort of love of liberty in its way.
Reflections on Police States and Teamwork
00:51:03
Speaker
I don't think this was like a strong theme, but something that I didn't mention earlier.
00:51:08
Speaker
the desire to for unnecessary violence in the and humans and whatever because all this unnecessary torture to get information they may or may not have I mean it it was almost like an excuse to oh yeah and that came through in the character of the uh secret police state sheet it's like not a necessity that was enjoyment Yeah. I mean, this is a very random story to share, but I remember having, younger you know, younger brothers and sisters and as a young kid, remembering, I guess, like how it felt good to like lash out or punch someone or something. I mean, like as a very young kid, please don't touch me. Or maybe not that young, like eight years old or something. But then like a rather age, realizing that's not okay. And I just stopped, you know, like, and yet some people, I guess, don't ever grow out of it. They just have that, um,
00:52:02
Speaker
is he i It's interesting that you can actually remember the time that you sort of... I remember being like, it's not a okay for me to hit my little brother-sister. Like, it's just... Oh, maybe it's because I didn't know. Oh, you're all the... Yes, that's what it was. Oh, so the problem is all the younger siblings of the world. just well We remember you all as siblings, basically. Yes. Yes, I remember. I only have all the siblings. Everyone used to chase me around telling me she was gonna kill me. Oh my gosh, no I damn it to that I just want to make I just mean like as in like I don't know like slap their hand or push them away or something like you know like
00:52:43
Speaker
Oh. What? They didn't ever remember that? That is worrying. Guys, I thought this, okay, I all paid for a family in the UK and I, they one time they like 10 year old son ran her around with a knife threatening to stab everyone. I thought that was very unusual. Is this a common occurrence? I mean, mine wasn't running around. She was slowly very this is the one jamie
00:53:06
Speaker
several these see your sister in a completely different way. Although I am absorbed by my oldest sibling, that apparently I would be the one beating them up. so When I was really- That's why you don't remember being beaten up. When I was toddler, behave- Oh. um She said how I would always try and hit them with my toys. And specifically, I would always not go for the soft toys. Pick out the hard toys. So I don't know how true that is. I think, first of all, when people blame people who are not responsible for their behaviour, yeah, I have a question. A lot of questions. I have a lot of questions. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I think it was half Jane. Yeah. Okay, so if we're done with themes, we want to start there, which means I'm going to have to think of who is my star player, so we're going to go into one of you two first.
00:54:04
Speaker
but Well, I have written mine down. That's why I was just volunteering to go first, but very random. But he did stand out to me. It was Tom Paris because. the moment where they are struggling to get through to the planet and then they find out there's this is disturbance at the prison and they don't know what's going on. Tom Paris is like immediately like oh that's us it must be Starfleet that is somehow either causing the disturbance or they'll be taking advantage of the disturbance so it's our time to act now. So I feel like he knew his crew so well because I think I've said this before but if you get stranded on a planet or kidnapped by an alien
00:54:40
Speaker
you should, and you're a member of Starfleet, you should always be working to escape or get yourself up because someone else will always be there to meet you halfway. That's like, they won't leave you behind. And he, yeah, just the way he was like, yeah, that's them. Let's go. I like that. Great choice. Yeah. Doesn't ask permission. Just in fact, as you say, that it's, yeah, you just, it's the assumption, you know, it's the absolute default, like they will be Even if they didn't cause it, they won't be using it. like yeah I love that moment too. It's a great choice. Oh, thank you. Ready, Jamie? Yeah, no. i Probably Caleb. Probably that I didn't like his acting of the father-daughter interaction.
00:55:30
Speaker
um More a heroic, tragic figure than a tragic, heroic one.
00:55:38
Speaker
ye Yeah. Good choice, good choice. We're going to have different ones too. Well that's good because mine is normally the humour one. Yeah, there's a little bit of a tragedy comedy sort of comedy moment. No, I get that but he's he's not the common relief in this episode. Certainly not. So I mean I feel like someone has to choose Jamie. Yes, sorry. and I am on there to do that because as I say I think she did a fantastic job and all those emotions were right at the Also it was kind of like a different for a different reason like usually if I choose her as a star player it will be for Captain Catherine Janeway you know saving the day and strong independent woman and self-sacrifice and all of these will be wonderful
00:56:33
Speaker
buzzwords. You know, it's like a different side of her like seeing a really sort of more emotional um acting. But I will all like I would like to give special mention because I was a toss up between Jamie and and because I don't think I'm going to choose him very often because he's just not one of my, you know, top top favorites. Shikote. For the reason Jamie and I, you just we discussed earlier about I just think that that scene with him and the mocha guy that was like right, right in his wheelhouse and I just think that was a great interaction. I, 100% believed it. Very nice. Um, I think I also did like a special mention. Oh, for Shokote. So, uh, if, uh, if everyone had disagreed with, um, my Tom Paris book. So we definitely have an agreement there. Yeah. It was really interesting episode. Yeah.
00:57:26
Speaker
good a Very good. Very good facilitation, Jenny. You're in charge from now on. well Thank you. Oh, this is just like at work, isn't it? Like if you work really hard, you're rewarded with more work. Yes, exactly. Oh yeah, just don't tell us you're not coming back for six months. i Just don't turn up. Yeah, I'll take on all the responsibility, guys. Absolutely. Secretly going away. I love it. Ready for the jingle, Red. Ready for the jingle. I've pressed play, buts but it's got a slow start. Well, yeah, thank you, everybody. Thanks for listening. See you in X some amount of weeks because we are on a sub-sales schedule. I'm just doing some slow- Wow, I'm kind of mesmerizing myself.
00:58:22
Speaker
I really wish this was a visual book last time. Okay, see you soon! Bye! but