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00:00:01
We watch "Investigations" (S2 Ep.20)
9 Plays1 month ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Investigations”, where we finally find out why Tom Paris has been acting so whack, and see why even Jamie can’t deny Neelix is very brave and heroic.
We have no ads, no editing, and no socials but if you have any comments, questions or corrections you can reach us at hello@superstreak.co.uk.
Theme music by Alain D
Recommended
Transcript
Humorous Beginnings and Podcast Fumbles
00:00:00
Red D
And I'll play the jingle.
00:00:03
El Platypo
Please. So I'd like to be clear, I never said I wouldn't wind you about moderating.
00:00:08
Red D
No, this is the wrong jingle. don it
00:00:11
El Platypo
Oh, right.
00:00:11
Jen
Oh no, bad start, 2025.
00:00:14
El Platypo
Makes me moderate and then makes me look bad by playing the wrong jingle.
00:00:17
Red D
I've got to wonder how many times people could be listening to me going, I've forgotten how to do this. but time
00:00:24
El Platypo
You're picking up on it, you've got to start with some random shit at the same time as the jingle, so people are hooked in about what the hell has been going on when they weren't there.
00:00:32
Red D
Well, right now Jamie's snacking. i hello Okay, Jamie, so you're moderating and Jamie's dancing.
00:00:42
El Platypo
Well, I am moderating, but I'm kind of getting into the vibe to this. so I'm letting it build a bit more, unlike, you know, some slightly more premature moderators we might talk about.
00:00:47
Red D
Okay.
00:00:51
Red D
Oh yeah, you were very upset last time when I cut the shorts.
00:00:52
Jen
i
00:00:54
Red D
So will you just let me know if anyone just started.
00:00:57
El Platypo
I'm vibing, mate. You know, just just let me vibe for a bit.
00:01:01
Jen
i'm I'm vibing and I'm also just reimagining the story when Dre and I were at a family Christmas party and ah basically he let us slip that we do this podcast but we didn't know he didn't let us slip what this topic was.
00:01:04
El Platypo
This is this is the most I've seen my
00:01:12
Red D
Oh no! Okay.
00:01:15
Jen
And then one of the brothers-in-law, oh well, the husband of a cousin, um was determined to find it, like really determined, and kept asking questions all night about it.
00:01:28
Red D
Oh, that is funny. Did he find it?
00:01:32
El Platypo
No, of course
00:01:32
Jen
I don't think he has no...
00:01:33
El Platypo
God no.
00:01:33
Jen
he's because yeah The the minimum amount of parameters we did give him basically elicited about 100,000 different podcasts, so I don't think he's going to find it.
00:01:34
El Platypo
Never admitting I know you people to anyone.
00:01:44
El Platypo
Yeah, yeah. He felt he thought we'd he'd be able to sort of screw it out of us, but we yeah we managed to resist him, like SAS rogue heroes resisting the Gestapo and the latest BBC iPlayer series.
00:01:57
Jen
I think he underestimated levels of embarrassment.
00:01:57
El Platypo
Hello, hello, folks. Hang hang on, hang on, hang on. Whoa, whoa, everyone. I just think it's about time that someone took control over here. I'm not having this devolved into the sort of emotional shambles, shambles we've seen on previous iterations of this where I haven't been iterating.
00:02:15
Red D
Love it.
00:02:16
El Platypo
Is everyone clear on that? There will be orders, there will be structure.
00:02:19
Red D
Okay.
00:02:19
El Platypo
Yeah? Right. Anyway, no.
00:02:21
Red D
I respond very well to a mean leader, so this is going very well for me.
00:02:26
El Platypo
Shut up. i'm Sorry.
00:02:27
Jen
I respond like a rebellious teenager to it. Me neither. This could go badly.
00:02:32
El Platypo
And Jenny, I think that's what we all appreciate about you, which is why we're all going to be so sort of, you know, Emotion and responsive to whereas I'll try being mean to read see if I can you know push some high performance of her right Taking the grip that I promised to take about three minutes ago when I was Getting everyone to bop to the theme team.
00:02:50
El Platypo
Hello.
Neelix's Investigation Adventures
00:02:51
El Platypo
Hello. This is the podcast of Janeway's children. We are here I nearly said investigating but discussing some of us moderating season 2 episode 20 and investigations.
00:02:57
Red D
Bye-bye.
00:03:03
El Platypo
Now, we've had the theme music as I read Amelis, so um I don't need to read the theme music out, so theme music too. One minute summary.
00:03:10
Jen
like
00:03:10
El Platypo
Now, traditionally, this is my one, but as I am in the headspace of adaptive leadership, I'm going to say, Jenny, would you fancy, if you possibly felt like it, giving us a one minute, head and I'm going to say, Red, give us one minute summary now, to embrace that whole being mean to red summary.
00:03:24
Jen
um That's more like it.
00:03:28
El Platypo
And then I'll tell you both how you could have done it better.
00:03:28
Jen
Yeah, yeah. All right, all right, okay. well I was not prepared for this.
00:03:34
El Platypo
Well, it's for me to moderate. I'm giving it to you.
00:03:36
Jen
Yep, right.
00:03:38
Red D
like i'm out of breath already but sorry jenny
00:03:38
Jen
Apologies in the advance. I know, this is some extreme moderation, but I like it.
00:03:43
El Platypo
Jenny, I think that was brilliant. Red?
00:03:44
Jen
I haven't finished, no!
00:03:47
El Platypo
Too slow.
00:03:48
Jen
Okay, okay, my moment, sorry, is this. Neelix takes on the role of the lead investigator trying to discover, well, initially interesting facts to report on his brand new investigative journalism podcast show that he uncovers some interest.
00:04:03
Red D
I feel like I'm out of breath already, but sorry, Jenny.
00:04:05
El Platypo
Here's Voyager TikTok.
00:04:07
Jen
Excuse me, this is my one minute summary.
00:04:11
Jen
And he discovers some exciting goings-on in the form of a spy on board Voyager sending out transmissions to Kazon ships. um And then the rest of the episode is basically an investigation into who this spy could be. and I won't ruin it by revealing who it is.
00:04:31
Red D
Nice.
00:04:34
El Platypo
Excellent. Would you like to hear how you could have done it better?
00:04:36
Red D
why
00:04:36
Jen
I think already I'm crucifying myself with a million ways I could have done it better, so no, I don't need more.
00:04:42
El Platypo
Well, I'm again going to lean into the management style.
00:04:44
Jen
but
00:04:44
El Platypo
There was no way it could have been better. It was just perfect.
00:04:48
Jen
That's much better.
00:04:48
El Platypo
Red, give us one now. Sorry.
00:04:51
Red D
I'm going to refuse.
00:04:52
El Platypo
What are you proposing?
00:04:55
Red D
um
00:04:56
El Platypo
Right. Your cool things, summary privileges are rescinded. No, no. Go for it, Red. Sorry. thank you paul thank
00:05:03
Red D
Do you want me to do a summary or the cool thing someone did put in a cool thing and I thought that was very interesting and I want to hear more.
00:05:09
El Platypo
um Well, they hi i to be honest, I just want to point out the fact that the entire ah you know episode hinges around the fact that at the start of the episode, Tom Paris is discovered to be trying to leave Voyager to join a Talaxian convoy, and this triggers Neelix's investigations.
00:05:31
El Platypo
The plot thickens. Yeah, that was about it, but whichever you want to really, just just go with what feels natural.
00:05:33
Red D
Nice.
00:05:38
Red D
Well, I would also just add, seems to be doing a group summary, is that Neelix's investigation is ah is kind of stumbling into an ongoing real investigation, which he nearly, I guess, uncovers, and eventually he has to be brought in.
00:05:51
El Platypo
nearly blows the pace.
00:05:53
Red D
Yeah, maybe blows the case. But in the end, it kind of works for the 2Vox investigation, his kind of, you know, it's Neelix, he's kind of He does have a good nose for journalism, I would say, but yeah, yeah.
00:06:04
El Platypo
yeah Yes, he does. Although he does take it slightly too seriously, claiming to have the higher moral duty to Tuvok, which is a bit difficult to watch as Alaxi leads you to a Vulcan with a straight face.
00:06:20
Red D
but
00:06:20
El Platypo
But I think it's time. Let us move on to the first cool thing.
00:06:25
Jen
Well, it was me who typed it, but I was thinking, oh, I might be stealing it from Jamie.
00:06:25
El Platypo
Could the person who found the cool thing make it known?
00:06:28
Red D
and
00:06:32
Jen
Jamie might want to say this one, but no, I also want to say it. So here we go. This is possibly only interesting to read rather than anyone listening, but that's okay.
00:06:43
Jen
We discovered Nelix acting in a different show, Red.
00:06:47
Red D
What? Sure.
00:06:48
Red D
I want to know.
00:06:48
Jen
Oh my goodness.
00:06:49
Jen
It was so weird. You know, at first you have that moment. Oh, that person's really familiar. Oh my God, who are they? Oh my God, it's Felix! So we recently started a recommendation from you as well.
00:07:02
Jen
We started the Resolian Isles.
00:07:04
Red D
Ah!
00:07:05
Jen
Yeah.
00:07:05
Red D
Is he in there?
00:07:06
Jen
Have you not seen him in it? Oh my goodness, yeah.
00:07:07
Red D
I mean, I probably have, but it's been a while and I was just thinking maybe I should rewatch it if I do move to Boston because it stays in Boston.
00:07:14
El Platypo
Listen to this.
00:07:14
Jen
Oh yeah.
00:07:15
Red D
um
00:07:16
Jen
um Yeah, he's like, it's just for one episode.
00:07:20
Red D
Yeah.
00:07:20
Jen
I don't really remember what character he plays, but um also, Interestingly, he basically is Neelix in it.
00:07:26
El Platypo
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:26
Jen
He's the same character, the same mannerisms, expressions, facial expressions.
00:07:29
Red D
Oh, that is ringing a bell.
00:07:29
El Platypo
I mean, he's also a religious extremist, but...
00:07:33
Jen
Yes, yeah.
00:07:33
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:07:37
Red D
I don't know if I'm not making this up, but towards the end of Murder, She Wrote, because it turns out Murder, She Wrote went on for 12 seasons as a child. I think I just saw the first few, but I think I mentioned this before.
00:07:44
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:07:48
Red D
Janeway appears in it.
00:07:49
El Platypo
Oh, wow.
00:07:50
Red D
and
00:07:50
Jen
Oh!
00:07:51
Red D
And two guys from Deep Space Nine, the tailor. Oh gosh, the spy tailor.
00:07:58
Jen
I remember the tailor, yep.
00:08:00
Red D
And maybe Neelix, maybe I'll make it up.
00:08:00
Jen
Is he in it?
00:08:02
El Platypo
oh my god Oh my gosh, we watched something last night which was basically Murder She Wrote Does Poirot with the star of the OC.
00:08:09
Red D
Oh, what's that called?
00:08:12
El Platypo
that yeah
00:08:13
Jen
It's just come out on Prime or Netflix, come with which.
00:08:17
Red D
Okay.
00:08:19
Jen
Invitation to a murder, possibly.
00:08:21
Red D
Okay.
00:08:22
Jen
Yeah. I mean, yeah. It was, it was all right.
00:08:26
Red D
It was all right.
00:08:28
Jen
I think Jay liked it more than me.
00:08:29
Red D
Okay. ah Yes, I get very excited when I see, um because I just watch only watch all shows, it happens more and more. But when I see characters or actors from different shows, from a show I love as like guest starring in another show.
00:08:44
Jen
It's very exciting, isn't it?
00:08:45
Red D
So thank you for sharing that with me.
00:08:45
Jen
Yeah.
00:08:49
Red D
I actually watched Magnum PIs on Prime now. So so watching I watching Magnum PI and every now and again, I'm like, ah, I know that actor.
00:08:53
El Platypo
Now that is a show. That is a heavyweight show.
00:08:56
Jen
Hello.
00:09:01
Red D
yeah
00:09:02
Jen
I have never watched Magnum PI. Maybe I need to add that to my list.
00:09:04
Red D
da
00:09:06
El Platypo
Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that the character the actor who plays Neelix whilst playing essentially the same personality completely is just an absolute dead fit for a completely cheerful religious fan fanatic lunatic who, you know, chairs a right-wing network. I'd just like to comment on how realistic he is in both of the parts with essentially the very same personality.
00:09:32
Jen
yep
00:09:33
Red D
He has this kind of energy strumming through him that somehow could fit.
00:09:38
Jen
cult leader energy
00:09:40
El Platypo
I don't know what you're talking about, Red. He's as upstanding a tlaxon as I have ever met or paid to leave me alone.
00:09:46
Red D
but In real life apparently he's a complete sweetheart.
00:09:46
El Platypo
Right!
Star Trek Character Dynamics and Humor
00:09:50
El Platypo
And I would still feel that way as I paid him to leave me alone.
00:09:50
Red D
yeah
00:09:54
El Platypo
um Right. Let's go. let's Let's talk about this one. Thoughts, impressions? Who wants to kick us off? What's the first thing people noticed? Or wanted to?
00:10:06
Jen
I feel like you should, ah I mean, yeah, I just, I, you know, I was holding off.
00:10:06
El Platypo
that That's typically a cue for other humans to engage in conversations, as opposed to just pointing and excellent.
00:10:09
Red D
I was waiting with you.
00:10:13
El Platypo
I love of it when I get to explain to humans.
00:10:13
Jen
I was holding off because, but I was holding off because I don't think my, you know, it's initial reactions and my initial reaction is really boring.
00:10:21
Red D
Oh, God.
00:10:21
Jen
It it was like, yeah, it was, it was quite good.
00:10:22
Red D
it
00:10:24
Jen
Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, I did not make, take down many discussion points.
00:10:29
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:10:29
Jen
Like I quite enjoyed it, but for some reason I didn't have in my brain, a lot of discussion points. have a slow brain day guys
00:10:37
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:10:37
Red D
but I think. I got excited because when it started, I realized, ah, it's going to be the culmination of this Tom Paris storyline that's being hinted at.
00:10:45
El Platypo
I see.
00:10:47
Red D
and So I was like, ah, yes, this is where it's all going to kind of culminate and end.
00:10:47
El Platypo
But...
00:10:51
El Platypo
No.
00:10:52
Red D
And then.
00:10:53
El Platypo
Problematically for me, when you said at the start, I got excited, my eyes leapt to your very first note, which starts with, and I won't get the whole thing.
00:11:00
Red D
No, but we're not, we're not there yet. We're not there yet.
00:11:02
El Platypo
Well, it's your first note.
00:11:03
Jen
I have a slow brain, dear guys.
00:11:03
Red D
You had initial reactions, which is a different section of the documents, okay?
00:11:03
El Platypo
I thought that was what was getting you excited.
00:11:09
Red D
But, and then also, you know, each time, whenever, I don't know, I find whenever I watch the older shows or whatever, each time you go back, you're like, oh, this is interesting or whatever. And then, um, you know, it's an e-legs and he's got this program and it's daily updates.
00:11:21
Red D
And now that I've been working on consulting, I'm like, what a great change in management exercise that he's running on a show. Oh, comms exercise, maybe not change management because nothing's going to change for a while.
00:11:28
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:11:31
El Platypo
Well, yeah. and And also, to be fair, whoever whoever wrote this episode could have made a lot of money setting up, I don't know, social media 10 decades before it actually actually happened.
00:11:40
Red D
Yes! Yes! Exactly!
00:11:43
Jen
It's basically a forecast.
00:11:45
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:11:46
Red D
Yeah!
00:11:47
El Platypo
Well, is is would we classify what Neelix is doing as close to podcasting or closer to TikToks? Because they they're always sort of two to three minutes.
00:11:57
Red D
No, oh were they? I couldn't really quite tell. I wasn't sure if he was just going all day. I don't know.
00:12:02
El Platypo
I mean, we're talking we're talking about the ones that aren't the doctor talking about, you know, Klingon digestive systems as a health note.
00:12:07
Red D
but the daily updates i have i have some questions about this later on i'm happy to bring them up now but jamie and your role is in change management have you ever tried to do videos because we have tried to do videos but
00:12:20
El Platypo
ah You're violating the key and crucial element to all change management, which is treat anyone and everyone who is being subjected to it like a mushroom. Feel your shoes and keep them in the dark.
00:12:32
Jen
Oh no!
00:12:33
El Platypo
Or at least that's what happens when the big that's what happens when the big four get involved, Red.
00:12:35
Red D
a
00:12:37
El Platypo
People designing things in a darkened room. No one being allowed to know that anything is happening.
00:12:41
Jen
Well, we're gonna get sued!
00:12:44
El Platypo
I mean, I didn't say which big four. I meant Big Ernie, Big Sam, Big Fred, and Big D Town. Who did you mean by the big four?
00:12:55
Jen
Who Who won?
00:12:56
El Platypo
Yeah, no one. No one has heard of the big four. Anyway, sorry, you're you're asking more seriously as opposed to my whimsical meanderings as to how to do change management. If we ever do some sort of things like video blogs or things about what's happening, why things are thinking. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Like do it in current role for latest batch of recruits to find out about their experience. Um, sometimes you'll have a leader, uh, doing a far side chat that looks more or less awkward depending on how well-versed they are at being human about the reasons why we're doing a change.
00:13:31
El Platypo
Sometimes they're able to stop their hands doing this thing that you got in the will in pretty much every Will Ferrell movie of his hands just anytime he's giving an interview his hands just going like this throughout it and checking them down.
00:13:44
Red D
what
00:13:45
El Platypo
ah like Ricky Bobby tired egg and nights. But yeah we do do it. All of that having been said ah i I think Neelix's style is not one that has been embraced in the change management sphere particularly strongly. though
00:14:00
Red D
No, but it should be, like but so I we'll have to say about that.
00:14:05
El Platypo
That would mean that Neelix was leading change and I don't think I'd be happy about that because I might end up working for him. um Right, shall we go on to our initial reactions? No, not our initial reactions, but the things we thought about it and then we wanted to talk about.
00:14:23
El Platypo
Jenny, would you like to kick us off?
00:14:26
Jen
Okay, well, you know how I am a little bit of a sucker for sentimental tripe?
00:14:27
El Platypo
Boom.
00:14:33
Jen
It's so... I really enjoyed Neelix's little heartfelt speech at the start when he's talking about Tom leaving. um I just really enjoyed...
00:14:41
El Platypo
Say he was an underappreciated an underappreciated gem and he didn't appreciate how many people appreciated him.
00:14:44
Jen
Sorry?
00:14:50
Jen
Yeah, I think I just enjoyed the fact he was making all these comparisons to when he first met someone Well, when he first met Tom, how he's misjudged him, um you know, hes he thought he came across as arrogant and he mistook arrogance for something or other else.
00:15:09
Jen
I can't really remember the details of it now, but I just thought it was a lovely speech.
00:15:09
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:15:12
Red D
Paragons for courage.
00:15:12
Jen
And it...
00:15:13
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:15:14
Red D
Yeah, like running us for life's anxiousness.
00:15:14
Jen
Yeah, yeah. right Yeah, it was it was quite poetic, but also it did make me think about
00:15:16
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:15:17
Red D
Wow.
00:15:23
Jen
you know, first impressions of people I now love and have known for decades and how fascinating it is to look back on the first impressions of those people and remember what you thought of them then to what you think of them now.
00:15:24
Red D
Yeah.
00:15:28
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:15:34
El Platypo
and Yeah.
00:15:41
Red D
Yes, because I mean, not, I think it's different at rowing, but I have friends at work that some of them, if I'm honest, and I have told them this, when I first met them, I thought, we'll never be friends.
00:15:52
Red D
Not because, not because I didn't like them anymore, but because people in consulting are so confident, overly, like, not overly vulnerable. And that's just like, you know, not something that I guess, I was like, oh, we'll never be friends.
00:16:06
El Platypo
so
00:16:07
Red D
And some of them have turned out to be like, very long-term best friend like you know great friends so yeah makes you think
00:16:13
Jen
Yeah.
00:16:15
Red D
house
00:16:15
Jen
I remember one of my closest oldest friends I thought of was very standoffish i when I first met her. And I thought, oh, is this hiding someone quite nasty?
00:16:27
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:16:29
Jen
But it turned out to be nothing of the sort.
00:16:30
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:16:34
Jen
I just think some sometimes some people come off that way when you first meet them. But underneath, they're wonderful, whereas people.
00:16:39
Red D
I think Jamie's talking about me right now, Jamie.
00:16:39
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:16:42
Jen
No, not not you at all, Red.
00:16:43
El Platypo
He's talking about me. No, no, no.
00:16:46
Jen
No, no, I will
00:16:46
Red D
Yes,
Reflections on Friendship and Independence
00:16:48
Jen
i'll tell you who are after the, ah but just in case, just in case.
00:16:50
Red D
hopeline
00:16:53
Jen
i should do different But I'm trying to remember first meeting you, Red.
00:16:59
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:16:59
Red D
yes I'm not sure I can remember that well. I know with Jamie, I felt like instantly comfortable and I think I told him this at the bar. but the rowing club once when I've had to meet because I was like you remind me so much of like a good friend from South Africa so I was like in my mind into it was just like the same
00:17:07
Jen
Aww.
00:17:14
El Platypo
and And I was always really disappointed that that wasn't friendly Robbie.
00:17:18
Jen
Do you know, I think I had the same experience with you, Red.
00:17:19
Red D
sorry friend yeah
00:17:23
Jen
i see I have this vision of you sitting on like a weights bench or something and the in the club room of Esther, and there's like a squad meeting or something, and you're sat just behind me, and then I think Jay was there as well.
00:17:35
Jen
and You just seemed very, very like chilled and, you know, you know, there's a lot of intense people in the rowing club where we met and you were, you know, a bit calmer by comparison.
00:17:41
Red D
Yeah.
00:17:48
Red D
Oh,
00:17:50
Jen
You came across, you know, calmer and slightly less ah terrifying.
00:17:55
El Platypo
hmm yeah well um i mean you came across as a feral bundle of uh energy to me when i'm in the floor of the weights from gym that day jenny so don't think you're any less terrifying oh i can't
00:17:55
Jen
it so Yeah.
00:17:56
Red D
I'm happy to hear that.
00:17:59
Jen
I definitely remember meeting Jamie for the first time.
00:18:12
Red D
be
00:18:13
El Platypo
For those of our viewers who can't see the video feed, a small black dwarf shard cat has just come and started snuggling Jenny.
00:18:21
Jen
Well, she was trying to eat eat my crisps, actually, so hence the...
00:18:21
El Platypo
I think it's an important context. Are there cats in the Star Trek universe?
00:18:27
Jen
Yes!
00:18:27
Red D
Yes.
00:18:28
Jen
Very much so. Spot. Spot the cat.
00:18:32
El Platypo
Is that an instruction or a noun?
00:18:35
Jen
It's a name. It's a noun.
00:18:37
Red D
Data has a cat.
00:18:37
Jen
Proper noun.
00:18:38
El Platypo
Right, anyway, we're we're going we're going off beast.
00:18:39
Jen
Yeah, what's the name of Data's cat?
00:18:40
El Platypo
People? I said there was to be none of the emotional shambles we had on other podcasts. We're going off piece. Back to Neelix's speech.
00:18:50
Jen
Well, I mean, that was basically it. I mean, it was just a just a nonsense thought that came to mind, really, that I just, qui and and to be fair, like, um there's a lot of the Neelix character that I don't enjoy.
00:19:02
Jen
So I feel like I really wanted to point out, you know, the times when I really quite like his scenes.
00:19:02
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:19:07
El Platypo
I mean, that's...
00:19:07
Jen
And I like that one.
00:19:09
El Platypo
That's fair. I mean, I'm going to riff off a similar thing in a different direction. As some viewers may anticipate having listened to me occasionally, ah go on minimal length on the topic,
00:19:23
El Platypo
this episode is very tough for me because Neelix goes 100% Neelix and where in other episodes I have the chance to say this shows he's absolutely incompetent because no good comes of it actually a lot of good comes from it and it's crazy tough quite touching and that's really hard for me that's unbelievably hard like he's actually led by his own ego to do some good which is unbelievably annoying
00:19:49
Red D
Very brave.
00:19:50
El Platypo
ah
00:19:52
Red D
and
00:19:53
El Platypo
I know that's why it's so bloody annoying. ah Because, you know, he he's a character who, as much as I'm, you know, slowly, shyly coming to an appreciation, of it's annoying when it sort of slaps me in the face as hard as it does here. So I think on the notion of me being slapped in the face by Nix, I'm going to sort of pass the passion to Red. So what was your first thing that you wanted to focus on?
00:20:18
Red D
Well, Yes, I'm surprised that he won.
00:20:20
El Platypo
And I do emphasize the slapping element of my piece.
00:20:24
Red D
Well, not surprised by the only one that mentions this, but in his very first broadcast, I guess he's just discussing gossip and raising crew morale or whatever, and he's walking across the canteen and he slaps his own buttocks in excitement.
00:20:37
Red D
I don't know, I was like... and I just won!
00:20:39
Jen
I miss that.
00:20:41
Red D
both of them like boop boop um and there was a part of me for some reason I think because I listened to like the Office Ladies podcast yesterday ah and in my I don't know life I was watching something and I kind of uh as like the the kind of image zoomed in on like these characters I am I thought of the camera people like you know like oh there's people there it's not just anyway this is basic stuff but then I was like
00:21:04
El Platypo
Ha ha ha ha!
00:21:06
Red D
How would you react if you're just trying to film this scene with Neelix in the canteen and he suddenly slaps his butt so I think I would crack up. So I'm just curious how many takes it has to do, or maybe they're very pro professional.
00:21:19
Red D
But yep, that was what stood out to me early on in the episode.
00:21:23
Jen
I didn't even notice that! Gosh, I have to rewatch it.
00:21:25
Red D
oh
00:21:27
El Platypo
a Yeah, it's an odd one to focus on for your first bit, Red, but everyone has always seemed to appreciate Neelix to a degree that I'm uncomfortable up with on this one, and that only telegraphs a potential direction of travel for why that is.
00:21:31
Red D
Maybe I just...
00:21:36
Jen
Someone is paying too much attention to Nelix's buttocks.
00:21:41
El Platypo
Sorry?
00:21:42
Jen
Someone is clearly even paying too much attention to Nelix's butters.
00:21:46
Red D
Maybe I just looked up at a perfect moment to be like, wait, what is he doing?
00:21:46
Jen
Butters buttocks.
00:21:50
Red D
i
00:21:52
El Platypo
Well, I mean, on on the point of independence of the on-looking eye, I think that sort of rather talks to Jenny's first point, or second point even.
00:22:03
Jen
Oh, is it back to me?
00:22:07
El Platypo
I mean, it can be.
00:22:07
Jen
Do you, are you referring to my, so my, uh, a journalist must be independent comment.
00:22:11
Red D
long yeah
00:22:11
El Platypo
Yes. What is that reference in this episode?
00:22:12
Jen
Yes.
00:22:13
Red D
Remember those days.
00:22:14
Jen
Ah, well, yes.
00:22:16
El Platypo
I remember through Twitter.
00:22:16
Jen
Well, this is the thing I, I, I, it is an interesting, it's an interesting one, isn't it? And I mean, yeah, when I was growing up, I had this dream of being a journalist, but like, you know, when I was really young, so it was the kind of journalist where I was basically Lewis Lane.
00:22:33
Jen
Superman you know and it was and I modeled what it must be like to be a journalist based basically on her where an idealized world you know where journalism is always independent um and the important thing is you're communicating the truth to the people and it's a noble profession.
00:22:39
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm.
00:22:52
Red D
why
00:22:52
Jen
It makes me sad because I feel like I mean I'm sure that still is the case for some journalists but you sort of get the impression nowadays that's like a rare thing. And mostly journalism is you're just a salesman. You know, there's a lot of, you know, paid paid opinion pieces and a lot of money exchanging hands for different articles and publications, which always makes me a bit sad. And I i mean, I work in an industry that is quite tightly regulated, but it's very specific industry.
00:23:28
Jen
um And I sometimes wish that outside of my tiny, well not tiny, but very niche industry, the rest of the press was as tightly regulated, because it's really not, at least not in our country anyway.
00:23:29
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:23:43
Jen
Anyway, that's my little rant done. And that all came from this one statement from Alex. Journalists must be independent.
00:23:50
Red D
Well, I mean, yes.
00:23:52
Jen
Oh, it's such a lovely, noble dream.
00:23:55
El Platypo
That's like, when is he actually a journalist?
00:23:55
Red D
but
00:23:56
El Platypo
Like, he's not putting things up.
00:23:58
Red D
yeah He starts off as like a fluffy TV personality, but then he makes the transition into tough, hard-hitting journalism.
00:23:58
Jen
Well, he's an investigative journalist.
00:24:05
Jen
Yeah.
00:24:05
El Platypo
And it sort of happens as you go through the day. So he starts off as a fluffy daytime TV you know presenter on the morning show couch.
00:24:08
Red D
Yes.
00:24:14
El Platypo
As we go list through the episode, he sort of goes through the gears of the various news episodes through the day. So lunchtime news, a little bit of fluff and froth, and then evening news that's full on updates on the war in Ukraine and things like that.
00:24:26
Jen
Yes, but you know what?
00:24:26
Red D
And I'll just throw in my my like second point here. I think he is really affected by Harry Kim, who tells him, yeah, I like your stuff, but it's too much fluff.
00:24:32
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:24:36
Red D
It's all dessert in your meat and potatoes.
00:24:37
Jen
That is, and yeah, that is what I was gonna say as well, sorry, Karen.
00:24:39
Red D
And he also, you know, go ahead.
00:24:42
El Platypo
No, no, no. We're a Finn. This is why it's a human conversation. Human at each other, guys. Human.
00:24:47
Red D
And so he's really, yeah that sparks his transition a little bit, I think, into more serious journalism.
00:24:47
Jen
Human.
00:24:53
Jen
Absolutely, yeah, I had put that down as well.
00:24:53
El Platypo
and and And what's the phrase of Harry's that, what's the phrase of Harry's that, you know, really emphasise that to your journey?
00:24:59
Jen
Yes.
00:25:02
Jen
Yes, because um I've written this down as well. I really like his description of it, because he says, I don't know if it's the kind of show for me that he likes. It's got too much frosting. And and I'm thinking, what the hell does that mean?
00:25:13
Jen
And then he goes on to explain, it's basically lacking in substance. And he describes a time when he was, I don't know, like running a radio show and um he ended up following a really interesting lead and it led on to something of substance, something of meaning.
00:25:27
Jen
I just, I have never heard that phrase and I love that. And I think I might use it in future. Too much frosting.
00:25:31
Red D
too much for us Harry Kim wouldn't like tech talk
00:25:32
Jen
Not enough substance.
00:25:38
Jen
yeah there's a lot he wouldn't like in the modern world but yeah I agree I read I think that was the moment when you next turned from you know personality on the morning show to real life investigative journalism
00:25:40
El Platypo
Yeah, nice.
00:25:55
El Platypo
Yeah, that's that's fair and I think we could have done with some of that for quite a lot more of the series because jumping to my sort of next point Am I the only one who feels that Tom Paris's behavior has been being telegraphed for what feels like months on this series in advance of just loads of random episodes of you know drunk disorderly and for no apparent reason or driver and no one doing anything about it to the point where it's just like stuck out like a sore thumb amidst the typically smooth and resolvatory Star Trek storytelling style.
Tom Paris's Storyline Critique
00:26:33
Red D
yes i mean i yes which i quite like because you know it's not often you get something that runs more than one episode apart you know apart from but i was gonna say as a comeback but then it doesn't really apply here because i was like you know back in the day you would watch an episode a week so
00:26:36
El Platypo
I think it's been being telegraphed a while that something was up with Tom Paris to fit a wider plot arc
00:27:00
Red D
you would have to have to make it kind of stand out I guess you remember you wouldn't watch every episode so if you see one and three episodes you have to have seen at least one of those to understand something what's happening now but um are you complaining that it wasn't like well done or were you just are you just saying like yes I knew something was up I guess that's my question
00:27:20
El Platypo
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. I've got to be careful here. I may eventually have a social media handle that all these Star Trek Voyager fans could get to me by. I think love Voyager. I think that's one element of it that hasn't been done particularly well because it was really really hammed in.
00:27:44
El Platypo
like most things on episodes get explained but this just happened and wouldn't be explained like for instance tom parris throwing uh chakote over on the bridge and then being stood down and things like that um so i didn't think it was but it was flagged it was flagged not particularly subtly um but it was definitely there so yeah i guess i don't know where i'm leaving that as to where the
00:28:11
Jen
I think I know what you mean. um if The way they did it, I think I might have chosen to do it slightly differently in that perhaps the behaviour would have been shown more in the episode preceding this one, and then left it on a sort of dangling cliffhanger a bit, like like the main theme of the last episode would have been resolved, whatever that theme was, but there would be this sort of leftover question like, what's going to happen with Tom? What's going on?
00:28:40
Jen
um However, the way they did it is probably a bit more true to life. um So maybe that's what they were going for. As a viewer, I think it would have been a bit more satisfying to have it rather than sort of this ongoing thread where you're just sort of in the back of your mind wondering what is going on there? Is there something going on there? and then And then also by the time you get to the resolution, you've kind of forgotten about it too. So it's an interesting choice.
00:29:13
El Platypo
Interesting. Fair enough. yeah Right, Red, I think you're next.
00:29:20
Red D
Oh, okay. um Well, this is a very random point, um but I'm just going to share it with you. I was listening to the ScriptNodes podcast, as we'll pick up, I spent my whole life listening to podcasts. um And someone, oh, one of the hosts was like, he was saying, oh, I love the word jabroni, which is this kind of insult you can throw at people. ah Because I guess he his implication was, it's got no, apart from just ah being like, you're an idiot, um and he was like,
00:29:55
Red D
He didn't think it had any negative connotations to do with like race, gender, or religion or something. I was like, I'm not sure about that. But I tried to do some research.
00:30:02
El Platypo
What is... Okay.
00:30:03
Red D
And basically, the rock Dwayne Johnson has like used this word now for 20 years, so to find out anything about how gibberish was used before is impossible. But my point is, if you really want an insult that is really not tied to any kind of human characteristics at all, dilithium scrubber stood out to me.
00:30:18
El Platypo
Ahh!
00:30:23
Red D
i love it probably
00:30:23
El Platypo
Because actually what you've written on your notes looks way filthier, because you can read that out phonetically.
00:30:26
Red D
yes oh ya man well there's ah There's a typo there.
00:30:31
El Platypo
Dickiutham scrubber. Dickiutham scrubber.
00:30:33
Jen
no
00:30:33
Red D
It's supposed to be dilithium scrubbers.
00:30:34
El Platypo
That that sounds filthy.
00:30:37
Red D
So, you know, if you want to yell at someone instead of, you know, the usual, whatever nasty.
00:30:41
Jen
but But now hang on a moment, Scrub definitely has a history because there's that song from the 90s whenever it was
00:30:50
Red D
At first you got no, yeah, but that's not an insult, is it?
00:30:51
Jen
No scrubs. PLC. I don't know.
00:30:54
El Platypo
yeah by definition yeah this fella can't get no love and does anyone know what a scrub is man but no i guess i can go
00:30:56
Jen
Aren't they singing about how they don't want no scrubs, which is some...
00:31:01
Red D
But they don't want no scrub.
00:31:05
Red D
OK, now I'm going to have to be able what that means.
00:31:05
Jen
Yeah, like a a scrubber is some kind of some kind of negative man. I don't know. Yeah, I got that impression.
00:31:14
Red D
The scrub is a guy that thinks he's fly. OK, yeah, no one wants that. I get that. So still on board.
00:31:21
El Platypo
I mean, of all the people on this call, there's one that's been very silent, and she has the largest ears of all of us, so, you know, ask the cat that's just turned out whether she can deal with
00:31:31
Jen
What do you think we're?
00:31:34
Red D
No, a term that was popular ah in Atlanta at the time. A guy with no purpose, no prospects. Oh, interesting.
00:31:41
El Platypo
Okay.
00:31:42
Red D
But if you don't want to use scrubs, you can use dilithium scrubber or scrub.
00:31:46
El Platypo
Hmm. Fair enough. Well, I mean, i talking of scrubs i mean i
00:31:52
Red D
I mean, can I just interject?
00:31:53
El Platypo
oh sorry
00:31:54
Red D
I don't think I've ever called anyone by a name at all.
00:31:57
Jen
and
00:31:59
Red D
It's already
00:31:59
El Platypo
I'm fairly sure you've called me a bellend on many an occasion.
00:32:03
Red D
a word I use.
00:32:03
El Platypo
And if you didn't, I knew what you meant at the time.
00:32:05
Red D
yeah but maybe something so ahs
00:32:09
El Platypo
This is why you fail, Red. You have to be able to call people what they are. um Which, if you haven't called me a bellend, is you failing to do that? Right. So, next thing, I think... Jenny, I think it's back to you. Do you do you want to go? Shall I go? How does this work? Are we bouncing up a fourth?
00:32:28
Jen
I really don't know about this moderation, Jamie. I mean...
00:32:31
Red D
Yeah, but maybe something similar.
00:32:32
El Platypo
That's exactly the side that I'm doing my job.
00:32:33
Red D
That was true.
00:32:33
Jen
Do you wanna go?
00:32:35
El Platypo
if everyone is If everyone is happy, you're not doing it right.
00:32:36
Jen
Should I go? What should we do, guys?
00:32:39
El Platypo
I'm not doing it right.
00:32:39
Jen
I need some direction here, man.
00:32:42
El Platypo
Right, you didn't point three, do point four.
00:32:45
Jen
Oh, oh gosh.
00:32:45
Red D
Wow, things are falling apart there.
00:32:46
El Platypo
And I spilled my beer in anger.
00:32:48
Jen
What have I done? Oh, and now a moderator has frozen.
00:32:51
El Platypo
Hello?
00:32:52
Red D
He knocked over a beer and something.
00:32:53
El Platypo
Oh, God. Well, that's boring.
00:32:56
Jen
I pushed him too far. Well.
00:32:58
Red D
Then he pushed back against the moderator.
00:33:01
Jen
Clearly.
00:33:03
Red D
They will snap.
00:33:03
Jen
Oh no. Oh gosh, I hope he hasn't spilled something over his laptop.
00:33:10
Jen
It's gonna be all my fault right now.
00:33:11
Red D
But I died lithium scrubber.
00:33:16
Jen
Oh no.
00:33:17
Red D
I did hear a beer bottle hit the ground or hit something.
00:33:24
Jen
Well, hopefully it's just hit the ground rather than the laptop.
00:33:27
Red D
Oh yeah, he's orange.
00:33:30
Jen
Oh, I've still got, oh, he's gone now.
00:33:31
Red D
Oh, and he's offline. He's probably running back to come sit next to you.
00:33:36
Jen
Is this the just the kind of where you need to edit, right?
00:33:42
Red D
I'm not going to do that. This is the content, this is the fall.
00:33:45
Jen
This is the most exciting part.
00:33:46
Red D
ah
00:33:50
Jen
Waiting for moderator to come in for life.
00:33:50
Red D
Oh, well, he's back.
00:33:51
El Platypo
Sorry, sorry about that. um Yeah, so in my anger, whoever spoke last, I managed to knock my beer over and it knocked my, ah what I gather is called an Ethernet cable out, which meant that I was offline for a few crucial seconds, during which I understand that you wrapped up the podcast and jobs done and early bath.
00:34:15
Red D
Well, never had have I had such a quick chance to use the word that theme scrubber as I did when you knocked yourself off the podcast.
00:34:21
El Platypo
It's not about speed red. It's about what you do with it, you little dilithium scrubber. um And I bet that sounded a little bit more weird.
00:34:27
Red D
I really hope it catches on anyway.
00:34:33
El Platypo
Well, it's not one word, but two, and I feel willing to bet that d'acuthium scrubber will catch on more quickly. You big d'acuthium scrubber. Right, Jenny, it was in fact your go.
00:34:47
El Platypo
Hit me. Hit us.
00:34:47
Jen
Right.
00:34:48
El Platypo
Hit our viewers.
00:34:48
Jen
Yes. Well, I'll try and try give it a bit more lit.
00:34:49
El Platypo
Listen. Hit something.
00:34:52
Jen
no energy this time because I don't want to accidentally scare a moderator into knocking me a bottle over. and
00:34:59
El Platypo
I glass myself, it's true.
00:35:02
Jen
um So what have I got left to chat about? I'm afraid I only have one more discussion point so after this I'm just gonna have to like piggyback on yours basically. um My last one was i was very trivial. I was just a little bit disappointed at the point where Tom was saying goodbye and everyone did think he was leaving forever. At the just, you know, pat on the back type hug that went on between Harry and Tom. I mean, whereas the love, you know, this bromance we've all come to know and love, I would expect more emotion, you know? ah so That was a bit disappointing to me. What did you guys think?
00:35:41
Red D
Yeah.
00:35:42
El Platypo
Yeah, man. Like, that needed more than a hug that Tom wasn't particularly into.
00:35:48
Red D
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, yeah, actually and maybe I can add a couple of my points in there because a I did really love this scene earlier when Neelix finds out Tom is leaving and he is worried about his fault.
00:35:58
El Platypo
Oh, yeah.
00:35:59
Red D
And they have this very kind of, oh, difficult scene because Neelix is like, what did I have anything to do with it?
00:36:00
Jen
Oh yeah.
00:36:04
Red D
And Tom is having to kind of
00:36:06
El Platypo
Hmm.
00:36:06
Red D
There's a part where he's acting and then there's a part where, I mean, in his role, and then I think there's one part where he's like, no, Neelix has got nothing to do with you. That's true coming, you know, through.
00:36:13
El Platypo
yeah
00:36:14
Jen
Hmm.
00:36:16
Red D
um And then they hug at the end of that scene, which is so sweet.
00:36:20
Jen
Yeah.
00:36:20
El Platypo
I was touched by that as well actually.
00:36:22
Jen
Yeah, me too.
00:36:22
Red D
I was very touched by that and made me realize I could never be a spy.
00:36:23
Jen
I like that one.
00:36:25
Red D
I would be totally useless, but like, oh no, I'm actually going on a secret mission. I don't know.
00:36:30
Red D
And maybe you can tell me how you would handle that. But then I'd kind of forgotten about Harry Kim, I guess, cause I haven't watched in a while. And then when they got to the transporter room and you have to say but goodbye to Harry, I was like, Oh my God, this is like a huge goodbye.
00:36:42
Red D
It was, um, yeah.
00:36:45
El Platypo
Is Tom better friends with Neelix than he is with Harry Kim?
00:36:48
Red D
No, Harry Kim made like, it's a bromance. see
00:36:51
Jen
ah
00:36:51
El Platypo
Yeah, but you can be best friends with someone who isn't your pronouns. It's just that with the bros are more broey.
00:36:55
Red D
No. I had just kind of forgotten and then I was like, oh my gosh, this must be really tough for Harry.
00:37:01
Jen
Maybe it was a decision they made because this episode was supposed to be focused on Neelix and they didn't want to
00:37:04
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:37:09
El Platypo
Yeah.
00:37:09
Red D
I mean, I felt like it was implied that they have had like, I didn't feel like it was Harry finding out for the first time, but it was just all my reaction of being like, oh my gosh, Harry, I forgot about Harry.
00:37:10
Jen
Take away from that, I wonder.
00:37:12
El Platypo
yeah
00:37:19
Jen
No.
Chakotay and Plot Exclusions
00:37:24
Red D
How's he going to take this?
00:37:25
El Platypo
Was Harry not in on the plot?
00:37:25
Jen
It was only January in Tuvok, wasn't it?
00:37:27
Red D
No.
00:37:28
El Platypo
think Yeah, but just smile I don't know how I feel about January's decision not to involve Chakotay in it.
00:37:40
Jen
yeah
00:37:41
El Platypo
That could have led to some, you know, i yeah Just based on Tom Perez's words, at the end, where he's apologized to the entire crew for being a jerk, but saying that he kind of enjoyed it when it was such a coache, that could have led to some serious incidents that ruffled crew cohesion and led to violence.
00:37:49
Red D
ah hu
00:37:57
Jen
yeah yeah bit cheeky wasn't it i i just if i was to go to I would not be having a good week. I mean, you basically found out that you've just, as the second officer, not been included in this major spy plot, allegedly because, you know, they wanted a good performance out of you.
00:38:08
El Platypo
Yeah. Mmm.
00:38:17
Jen
And then, and then you've got, you know, this guy who's been basically behaving like a bit of a prat to you for several weeks. Turns out, as well as that, he's also, he's also been like he' in the clear.
00:38:25
El Platypo
It's in the clear.
00:38:29
Jen
He's also been lying about that. and keeping secrets from you.
00:38:31
El Platypo
yeah
00:38:32
Jen
And now he's basically making fun of you on what is the national television saying he enjoyed it.
00:38:32
El Platypo
yeah
00:38:38
Red D
ah
00:38:39
Jen
It's a bad week for Chakotay.
00:38:40
El Platypo
think we can understand that.
00:38:41
Red D
Well, I can't if I wasn't going to mention this, but now because, you know, to make Shakur to feel better, he looked pretty darn good in this episode. I don't know why, but I was like, well, he's very I mean, he is a very handsome man.
00:38:52
Red D
The whole crew is very handsome, but he looked good. So he had that guy.
00:38:55
Jen
Oh, we've a little you know red Chakotay thing going on.
00:38:57
Red D
Yeah,
00:39:01
El Platypo
oh
00:39:01
Red D
ah yeah I mean,
00:39:03
Jen
i did I did not notice this.
00:39:03
El Platypo
i thought we meant to i thought we meant neelix there actually but
00:39:08
Red D
So I felt bad for today for sure. It's a bit humiliating, but I thought he looked good, so swings and roundabouts. I don't know.
00:39:16
El Platypo
nice I mean, I would say I'm going to jump from this point to my next one, but I like Yigit Salz. I was genuinely touched by Neelix's first hug when he was almost overcome with grief about it.
00:39:28
Red D
Oh.
00:39:30
El Platypo
um I was touching on one of the reasons this was such a difficult episode for me to acknowledge my arch-enemy is, in fact, rather a nice person. It's a bit like that scene in oh ah mit David Mitchell's first comedy where he's, you know, playing an artsy officer who suddenly realizes, looks at his ashtray that has a skull on it and is like, are we the bad guys?
00:39:55
El Platypo
um But yeah, so I'm i'm happy now.
00:39:57
Red D
Yes, you are the bad guy for not news cycle, Jamie.
00:40:01
El Platypo
I was going to say that but ah the actual bit I loved was the fact that in short succession, we sort of had three different news reports from Nelix where it was like, we love Tommy P when he's leaving.
00:40:14
El Platypo
We didn't appreciate him enough. Tommy P is a traitor. And then the fun one was just funny again. We love Tommy P. Oh, sorry.
00:40:23
Red D
Typical news cycle.
00:40:25
El Platypo
I mean, yes, yes.
00:40:26
Red D
You're going to raise them enough and up but then cut them back down. Isn't that what they say?
00:40:30
El Platypo
Well, i' I'm just I'm ready for whatever happens when this this podcast makes it big for us. That's all I'm going to say.
00:40:36
Red D
We are not ready. but are
00:40:40
El Platypo
emotionally or indeed in terms of theater and podcasts itself.
00:40:42
Red D
and
00:40:44
El Platypo
So that that was me, I think, Red, I'm going to bounce back to you like the proverbial tennis ball being thrown between two very closely situated walls.
00:40:50
Red D
Okay, I think
00:40:54
El Platypo
Bounce to you, Chief.
00:40:56
Red D
You have a point which I will, sorry, you don't need to know about my thinking. um I wanted, I got very excited when I saw Martha Hackett's name on the screen as his guest starring, because then you know, Cesc is back, um and she is the villain in this episode, and she's a pregnant villain, which I have to say Star Trek might be the only place I've seen a female pregnant villain before.
00:41:05
El Platypo
Ooh.
00:41:19
Jen
yeah it's pretty cool
00:41:20
Red D
And she's great, so always, and she is apparently a para your fan favorite, um but It's just funny because being like, oh, the pregnancy is all part of her like evil plan as well.
00:41:31
Red D
Anyway, so I just wanted to give a shout out to her character. And I say i was very excited to see that she was back. And she is still, yeah, um as evil as ever.
00:41:31
El Platypo
you
00:41:42
Jen
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
00:41:45
El Platypo
I think she she gets she gives good vibes on evil, I have to say.
00:41:45
Jen
this is this
00:41:50
Red D
Yeah, exactly.
00:41:52
El Platypo
it's Seska's back, it's on. It's evil, it's snarky, it's sarky. I like it.
00:41:59
Red D
things.
00:41:59
El Platypo
There's some good sort of tracers with psychopath eyes in this particular episode as well.
Seska and The Doctor's Unique Roles
00:42:05
El Platypo
For some reason, the folk were always playing tracers with Seska, always seemed to be these weird sort of people with weird eyes, like the murderer at the start, and then this weak chint, no one.
00:42:15
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:42:17
El Platypo
Was it Noah, or what was the name of the tracer of this episode?
00:42:21
Red D
Oh, Michael Jonas.
00:42:22
Jen
Jonah?
00:42:23
El Platypo
Michael Jonas, yeah. Not no, Jonas. Anyhow, Jenny, it's, it's your last, I think it might be your last one, I don't know.
00:42:32
Jen
No, my last one was my last one.
00:42:35
El Platypo
Ah, oh, fair enough.
00:42:36
Jen
I'm out.
00:42:36
Red D
It's up to us now, Jamie.
00:42:38
El Platypo
it's weak to I mean, I would also say that one of the things that I appreciated about this episode was rather than people taking the Doctor seriously as though he's a person, him being played as just frivolously ridiculous comic relief, about an egotistically incensed about not getting two hours of fame every day to talk to people about Klingon glosses, whatever that is.
00:42:52
Red D
Yes.
00:43:04
El Platypo
uh although he does come in at a crucial point to save Neelix by uh calling him and interrupting his potential murder by someone with what looks like a cross between a creme brulee gun and um yeah a nail gun behind him high tech stuff but
00:43:17
Jen
Haha. Haha.
00:43:23
Red D
the If a doctor was very funny and I just loved the speed with which he went from being like, I'm not interested in that, like, and then thinking about it, like when Neelix proposes like a little segment on a show to being a complete, an added diva.
00:43:36
Jen
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:37
El Platypo
And people wonder why I worry about AI having social media profiles.
00:43:38
Red D
I think this is based more on human behavior Jamie, I mean Jamie, sorry.
00:43:46
El Platypo
He's an artificial intelligence, he's not a human.
00:43:49
Red D
I know, but that's ah my understanding of the normal person to act the pipeline is I'm sorry, by actor, I mean, like, you know, superstar or something.
00:43:56
El Platypo
but That's fair. Although i would I would sort of, well I actually read, I'm going to bounce back to you before I go with the most frivolous last point that I think we've ever come across. but you've
00:44:08
Red D
I don't mean just.
00:44:09
El Platypo
that's that's okay dude that's okay we we know you we know you feel the doctor metaphorically um go for it you'll go after pregnant cesca
00:44:19
Red D
Um, okay. So I did enjoy that little inter exchange between a Tuvok and Neelix where Neelix has not been informed that, um, there's this ongoing and they're trying to like, I guess, smoke out the spy or the street or whatever.
00:44:36
Red D
Um, and, but no, actually it's not yet. I think it's when he brings his concerns to Tuvok and Tuvok is still trying to like play it down like it.
00:44:41
El Platypo
mean
00:44:44
Red D
And so then eventually Tuvok agrees and he yeah there's like kind of this exchange where Tuvok is like, I'll pursue the matter. And Neelix is like, and I will help you. And Tuvok is like, you will not.
00:44:53
El Platypo
It's just like you will not be helping.
00:44:56
Red D
Just there's that classic little, you know.
00:44:59
El Platypo
and There's the certainty in shutting Neelix down that I'm very much there for.
00:45:03
Red D
Yeah, it was just very funny.
00:45:03
Jen
Yeah.
00:45:05
El Platypo
Yeah, fair. I mean, I'm going in a totally different direction. um My note reads simply, I would defect just for an appointment with a caisson hairdresser, which occurred the moment I saw the caisson again.
00:45:17
Red D
yeah
00:45:19
El Platypo
I still think they have incredible hair and I really want it. So, yeah.
00:45:24
Red D
You should be shaking your head.
00:45:26
Jen
Oh gosh, yeah, I worry, I worry. I mean that is some bad hair.
00:45:30
Red D
Do you even have hair or is it coral?
00:45:30
El Platypo
Ouch, man.
00:45:34
Red D
Because I'm gonna send you off.
00:45:34
Jen
It looks like coral.
00:45:35
El Platypo
Is it coral?
00:45:36
Red D
It looks like coral.
00:45:36
Jen
It's like sponge with bits in it. But I think, I do believe Jamie that he loves it. Based purely on one haircut Jamie got years ago.
00:45:49
Red D
Oh, yes.
00:45:50
Jen
Which was, I didn't even know he was going to get his haircut.
00:45:53
Red D
ah Do have pictures of this that you could send or remind me?
00:45:53
Jen
Oh man, it was such a shock when he walked in the door.
00:46:02
Red D
Or was this hair like shaped like a Bravo.
00:46:06
Jen
It was basically, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you were going for that guy, oh gosh, it's off a show, really popular show. Oh no, Peaky Blinders.
00:46:18
Red D
Ah!
00:46:19
Jen
um Yeah, and it's like shaved on one side and long on the other side.
00:46:23
El Platypo
Still think it's an option for me.
00:46:24
Red D
okay i like the shape but the long on the one side i don't know that hairstyle oh yes only cut i also wanted the undercut to be honest but oh
00:46:30
El Platypo
I just want an undercut someday, anyway.
00:46:36
El Platypo
Thank you. You see, Jenny, it's fashionable.
00:46:38
Jen
Well, actually I have seen people with it and I think it looks pretty cool. I don't
00:46:43
Red D
jamie when did you have this haircut in all their pictures because i just go
00:46:48
El Platypo
Jenny destroyed all evidence as a precondition to marrying me.
00:46:49
Jen
think we took any. Yeah. But you might remember it because I think he also decided he didn't like it and went and just then shaved his head to get rid of it.
00:47:00
Jen
So we knew when he changed it.
00:47:01
Red D
I remember the shaved head a bit. Maybe I never seen it to before.
00:47:03
Jen
Yeah. Well, there was a reason for the shaved it.
00:47:08
Red D
Amazing.
00:47:11
El Platypo
I enjoyed the shaved head, but others tell me that, no.
00:47:16
Jen
Oh no, I thought the shave tape looked quite cool, it was quite interesting. But um I do really, I love your slightly longer hair, honestly.
00:47:26
Red D
Oh.
00:47:27
El Platypo
Fair enough. I definitely look like that character out of a truck and Dragon Ball by Trunks. Yeah.
00:47:37
Red D
I don't know this character, but well.
00:47:40
El Platypo
Right, I think red is for you to wrap us up and bring us home.
00:47:46
Red D
Okay. I do want to say too. Well, maybe one of these is only important, but I'm going to say two.
00:47:50
El Platypo
Final point that's very interesting.
00:47:53
Red D
So ah watching Neelix interact with the engineers reminded me of. being totally non-technical and interacting with developers and just pointing at the screen and being like, why is there that cap there?
00:48:04
Red D
Why is that happening? Why is this?
00:48:06
El Platypo
yeah
00:48:06
Red D
And that's basically how I started my job in tech. And a bit like me like, but so I just, that just brought back memories, but something that has bothered me for quite a long time.
00:48:20
Red D
When I say bothered, you know, I think about it every now and again, when I'm watching Star Trek is Whenever they have to get a security code, they give it by voice. And it's a code like engineering 0, delta 5. Can someone just, if they're not an engineering, can they use that code? Because they're all hearing each other's security codes all the time.
00:48:39
Jen
I had the same question read. I had the same thought.
00:48:41
Red D
ah
00:48:43
Jen
Oh, I was very confused when he, and the thing is, Neelix used it when he went into someone's personal quarters and used it to access their personal, like, laptop or screen.
00:48:55
El Platypo
Yeah, come link.
00:48:55
Jen
So I'm very, I'm very confused about how their codes work.
00:48:59
Red D
This seems like a huge security risk of law in the system.
00:49:00
Jen
Yeah.
00:49:03
Jen
Yeah, I think, and then And then I decided that probably I should just not ask too many questions here. Artistic license.
00:49:12
Red D
Yes, I'm glad I got it off my chest now. It's not something that keeps me up at night, but I just had to...
00:49:16
Jen
Also, you just reminded me right of this with your description of interacting with developers of this um little meme.
00:49:17
Red D
I've thought about it a few times. I just had to mention it.
00:49:30
Jen
which I just could not stop laughing at for years. And it's so basic. It's not funny at all. And I don't know why, but maybe you'll appreciate it. And it's just a little stickman drawing. And you've got, I don't know, website developers that has a screen and you've got website developer underneath, a little stickman next to him, client underneath, and little developers saying, would you like infinite scroll or pagination? And the client's saying, yes.
00:49:58
Red D
hello
00:50:00
Jen
That is literally it, and I could not stop laughing for years.
00:50:02
Red D
Very good. Yes. I have a comic that I have saved somewhere on my laptop and I love it. I know I understand why I love it so much, but it's like someone voting, like they're driving in a car or something and they're like, we'll be there in, why is it so funny? It's got something to do with like the speed of like downloads on Microsoft or something. It's like, we'll be there in five and five hours, eight hours, two minutes, one minute. And then like, I'll try to dig it up.
00:50:30
Red D
When I think about it, I just laugh and now I'm not even quite remember the how it actually started.
00:50:34
Jen
You'll have to find it and send it to us.
00:50:37
Red D
Well, because it was a time where like the internet was really slow. That thing's are already slow.
00:50:43
Jen
Oh, and you had the, yeah, the noise, the dial-up.
00:50:46
Red D
Yeah.
00:50:47
Jen
It's funny how things like that just, yeah, they just there's something that Ian Hislop said weeks ago, and have I got news for you as well? And like, Jamie repeated it to him the other day, and I was still in floods of laughter.
00:50:59
Jen
Like, I don't know why, it's just this like really innocuous comment.
00:50:59
Red D
yeah
00:51:03
Jen
uh sense of humor is a strange thing i was just yeah you know yeah yeah like i still love it i don't know why it's so funny oh anyway
00:51:04
El Platypo
What was it? Was it the one... the mad thing? Yeah, I'm not going to say that out loud.
00:51:16
El Platypo
Right, not in that spirit, but so Red, I'm conscious it feels as though you had a few other things you wanted.
00:51:25
Red D
I did have one more, which i'm I'm happy to bring up now because I think it's a question for you, Jamie.
00:51:28
El Platypo
Dirt. Dirt.
00:51:32
Red D
And you've kind of, uh, answered it already, but I think you want to have it.
00:51:37
El Platypo
up
00:51:38
Red D
Jenny, what do you think of Neelix now?
00:51:39
El Platypo
ah
00:51:41
Red D
Question mark, question mark.
00:51:43
El Platypo
Now, why would you type in an assumed answer on my bottom? I loathe him with the power of a thousand suns for it. That's just unkind. This episode may have won me over.
00:51:54
Red D
Yay.
00:51:56
El Platypo
um yeah It sort of did, but he's still going to know what the hell asked me, but I'm not going to hate him while he doesn't.
00:51:56
Red D
yeah
00:52:03
Red D
I'm glad that we've won you over to the New Mexico Fan Club.
00:52:06
El Platypo
Eh, you haven't. Neelix's true and pure heart and rather good hugs for Tom Paris did.
00:52:14
Red D
Oh.
00:52:14
El Platypo
And I was so good I think that Kes needs to be worried. But anyway, moving on from that themes and not adultery.
00:52:20
Red D
Wait, wait, I just wanna, sorry, I found, I found, sorry, this is really a tangent, but I tried to find the cartoon that I mentioned, but I couldn't, but I found my second favorite cartoon.
00:52:22
El Platypo
Oh gosh.
00:52:32
Red D
Which is two frames. The first frame is a woman speaking to her boss and she's like, they hold all your data indefinitely for free.
00:52:34
Jen
Hehe.
00:52:38
Red D
The second frame is the boss now speaking to a group. The NSA will be our new cloud provider.
00:52:45
Red D
Oh, I thought that was, I thought that was so funny at the time.
00:52:48
Jen
That is a good one.
00:52:51
Red D
Yeah.
00:52:52
Jen
I love things that tickle funny bones forever.
00:52:52
El Platypo
yeah
00:52:54
Red D
know
00:52:55
El Platypo
Right, themes and themes.
00:52:56
Red D
Oh, themes.
00:52:58
El Platypo
Themes, themes, themes. A couple that are written by the people.
00:52:59
Jen
In.
00:53:02
El Platypo
hit Hit me with your themes people.
00:53:05
Jen
I think I might be responsible for most of these espionage belonging sets of belonging. You know, there's this whole speech from Tom about how, you know, he's always trying to fit in when he came aboard and he kept trying, but he
00:53:12
El Platypo
This isn't that person.
00:53:16
Jen
He couldn't manage it and so he's leaving but then it turns out that that isn't true because he does belong and that's all lovely. And then the whole seeking the truth and investigative journalism theme.
00:53:24
El Platypo
And he had found...
00:53:29
El Platypo
um can i Can I also point out the fact that Tom had found his family on voyage of the way Neelix thought. He was just concealing it to walk the lonely path of the brave man undercover.
00:53:41
El Platypo
That was it really.
00:53:42
Jen
Exactly.
00:53:42
El Platypo
Although I'd also like to point out I feel that Neelix definitely needed a 20s investigator hat.
00:53:48
Jen
oh You definitely have that vibe, yeah.
00:53:51
El Platypo
Yeah, not like not unlike the guy who was the American who did it in the TV thing that we watched last night, Jenny. That sort of a hat would have been perfect for him, albeit not from the perspective of being a murderer, just of being a reporter. Right, star players, people. Hit me, hit me, hit me, hit me.
00:54:08
Jen
Well, you know how I'm often very indecisive. I can go first this time because I did actually think about it before. And here's the thing. I am very rarely going to choose Neelix as star player, so I think I will choose him this time. Based on, you know, twofold. First off, you know, the conversation that he had, well not conversation, the little speech he had at the beginning, which I just thought it was rather lovely and made me meditate on, you know, first impressions versus normal, long time familiarity, which was lovely and poetic. And also because, you know,
00:54:44
Jen
He really was treading the path of independent journalism and investigation and and seeking the truth and all these lovely, noble, idealistic things. And I'm a bit of a sucker for a bit of idealism.
00:54:55
El Platypo
I should, yeah,
00:54:55
Jen
So, I just need it.
00:54:58
Red D
Nice. Not deserved.
00:55:00
El Platypo
I'd agree with that. rent
00:55:04
Red D
Um, I'm going to go a bit random. Like, well, maybe not random. but I don't mean, but I'm going to go for Shkote.
00:55:12
Jen
Mm.
00:55:13
Red D
Because.
00:55:14
Jen
Is it based?
00:55:15
El Platypo
doesn't lose his students.
00:55:15
Jen
It's not based on looks.
00:55:17
Red D
No, no, because, yeah, I mean, he is obviously evening with rage when he finds out, but he holds it together.
00:55:18
Jen
anyway
00:55:20
El Platypo
Very good looking.
00:55:21
Jen
yeah
00:55:24
Jen
Is that part of the appeal, Red?
00:55:25
Red D
I do like an angry man.
00:55:27
El Platypo
if
00:55:28
Red D
That is true.
00:55:28
Jen
Oh no!
00:55:31
Red D
That is true. I mean, when I say angry man in film and TV, I like a short angry man, like Mark Wahlberg in a lot of movies.
00:55:38
El Platypo
this
00:55:39
Red D
I'm not not saying, I just love those characters. I'm not saying, um um but I think just because, yeah, that is, you know, it's always like embarrassing or a bit of humility when you find out something at work.
00:55:44
Jen
There's no judgment here, right? No judgment here.
00:55:46
El Platypo
um
00:55:52
Red D
This was a big deal and he was most treated by Tom. And then he just kind of, I think January handled a little bit well, like handle, you know,
00:55:59
El Platypo
Well, I don't know that. I don't think that chain we're having a lot, but yeah.
00:56:03
Red D
But he accepted her um and he seemed to be like, okay, fine, moving on. So there we go.
00:56:10
Jen
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I can see but reasoning because I think I don't know if maybe inside he was seething but I think if I did in his position his position yeah I would have been having a very bad week.
00:56:22
El Platypo
eventually understand it. yeah
00:56:26
El Platypo
um So I am going to opt for a joint one, Tom Paris, and whoever the engineer was who installed the shield on that caisson shuttle that basically spent what felt like two days running with the caisson literally 20 metres behind it in the bigger ship, shooting it.
00:56:45
El Platypo
and whoever did whoever installed that shield was amazing and Tom Paris for you know being under interrogation and sharing oodles of cool and deceiving everyone yeah that's me yeah yeah um yeah i think i think that wraps us up doesn't it or are we do we do we need is there a theme and you know we're gonna do this stuff all the way like all the way through as well there's gonna be none of this
00:56:56
Red D
Yeah, he was good. I don't think of him, but yeah, good choice. Yeah. There is, I'll play it now, the right one.
00:57:09
Red D
sort of their whole
00:57:15
El Platypo
under this emotional shambles. Can I take that back? There's someone flying a cat across the screen in slow-mo.
00:57:24
El Platypo
ah
00:57:25
Red D
You're not just frozen for me, so I can't wait to see you all.
00:57:26
El Platypo
Oh, no! Oh, she's frozen for me as well.
00:57:28
Jen
so okay
00:57:31
El Platypo
Please don't make the cat vomit.
00:57:31
Jen
not pale guess
00:57:33
Red D
Please don't make me cat vomit, because I'm very famous.
00:57:33
Jen
we go
00:57:35
El Platypo
It's important that people don't get past the facade.
00:57:36
Jen
oh
00:57:39
El Platypo
and Did you just turn down the jingle?
00:57:41
Red D
No, I don't. It's just shorter than that intro.
00:57:44
El Platypo
Very disappointing.
00:57:44
Red D
Or maybe my mouse was still on it. I don't know, but that was, that was important. I can't quite- You're still look recording?
00:57:49
El Platypo
Play it again. Play it again, just to be sure.
00:57:50
Jen
Are we still recording?
00:57:53
Red D
Sorry, I forgot to place the mouse.
00:57:53
El Platypo
Yeah, we're getting the tingle out to make sure we got it right.
00:57:57
Jen
bre I cannot believe the screen froze when I was catsurfing.
00:58:02
El Platypo
Good.
00:58:02
Red D
Oh, that was very sad for me because my log counts.
00:58:02
Jen
You missed the catsurfing.
00:58:07
Jen
I'll have to do it next time. I don't think Moira can take two rounds of catsurfing.
00:58:09
El Platypo
Great job, team.
00:58:12
Red D
Oh, okay.
00:58:13
El Platypo
Don't do it, Jen. We'll find another one.
00:58:15
Red D
Okay, bye!
00:58:16
El Platypo
Peace out.
00:58:17
Red D
Don't wake up!