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We watch "Parturition" (S2 Ep.7)
21 Plays8 months ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
New format, same old show!
This week we are watching "Parturition" in which Neelix and Tom are forced to overcome simmering tensions and work together to save “not the mama!”..
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Transcript
Unexpected Start and Playful Banter
00:00:03
Speaker
Hold on, hold on, hold on. Hold on, people. It's too late. We've started recording. What? I can... Well, no, let's just go with it. Will you start with the podcast without me? I was going to do like dual sounds and... Sorry, Red, as ever. We've disrupted your flow to begin with because we've pretty much made a friendship out of that. That is the dynamic. Are you all plugged in?
00:00:30
Speaker
I mean, define all plugged in, right? I have attached my laptop to a battery, however, so I can cease to respond in a smutty fashion to being asked if I'm plugged in or switched on. What do I mean, turned on? Anyway, carry on. That's a different question. It works, meanwhile, shakes her head in shame at me. I think, in keeping with the tone of this episode, there were some smutty jokes. Oh, yeah.
00:00:58
Speaker
Oh, if it went past Jamie, that's hilarious. Okay, Jamie, do you want to remind us what episode we are discussing this week on our podcast, Jamie's
Episode Overview: 'Parturition'
00:01:07
Speaker
Children, just in case anyone didn't know where they landed by pressing play. Would you care to remind us? Oh yeah. So we, this is season two, episode seven, Parturition. Is that the correct pronunciation? Yes. What does Parturition actually mean? To give birth to the child, I believe.
00:01:27
Speaker
I see. Okay. I did not know what that meant but that is an interesting concept for this to be in. Do you want to give us your one-minute summary of the interesting concept of the show? There really are some drawbacks relying on effortless brilliance in situations like this as opposed to thorough hard work and preparation but I think the episode effectively lands on the dynamic between
00:01:55
Speaker
Neelik Neelix and Tom Paris in the aftermath of an incident in Simulator Suite which leads Tom Paris to realise that he is in love with Kess and Neelix's feelings of jealousy towards Tom to come to a fore.
00:02:13
Speaker
Following their discovery of their mutual feelings about this, they have a food fight, and then are triumpharily summoned by the captain who issues them with the mission to go to a planet together to investigate it as a source of nutrients.
Neelix and Tom's Adventure
00:02:26
Speaker
As a means of driving the plot forward, said planet is dubbed Planet Hell,
00:02:33
Speaker
and is also inaccessible by teleporter for a large period of time and also covered in noxious mists which sting flesh when one is exposed to them on arrival at this planet through crash landing because of course it's a crash landing
00:02:51
Speaker
Neelix and Tom Paris dig themselves into a cave and block the entrance off to avoid exposure to the nauseous mist, find an alien baby therein and are then rescued by the crew having hatched the alien baby which looks like a dinosaur from what looks like a dinosaur egg
00:03:11
Speaker
and also returned it to its parent while simultaneously feeding it the nutrient-laced mists as an exercise in xenobiological parturition, which I believe is what the episode title refers to.
00:03:29
Speaker
That was brilliant, Jamie. Well done. I feel like that deserves a clap, yeah. That was really detailed. That was great because if you haven't watched, if any listener hasn't watched the episode recently, I think that gives you all the key points. So well done. I really do. I really, really do need to continue relying on effortless brilliance. It's working for you. I wouldn't change anything. Some might call it male privilege. No, I wouldn't. I mean, that was a good job, whether a male or not. So no.
00:03:58
Speaker
So initial reactions, Jenny, do you have, how did you feel about this episode? Yes, you look excited, good. I loved it. And, you know, I want to verbalize that because I do feel like, you know, I love Voyager. I do feel like the last few haven't been ones that I really love. You know, I still liked them. So I'm very excited that this is one that I'm like, oh, that was mostly because it was hilarious. I look so funny. So much comedy.
00:04:28
Speaker
I'm sure we'll get on to it. Yeah, there was a lot of comedy. Anything else to add? Well, I mean, I know I mentioned about how there was smushiness and Jamie looked shocked that there wasn't smushiness. So I'm going to add that there is a smutty joke in the opening scene, in the teaser, when, you know, Kess and Paris, you know, she's having a lesson from him in
00:04:52
Speaker
flying and she falls into his arms. She's getting a lesson in how to fly. Yeah. And then, you know, he's tricked her in some way. So it's a bit of a trick question. I think you just made that up. No, but it's similar. She says, oh, no, you've changed this and that and made it a trick question. And that was a dirty trick. And he says something along the lines of, well, you know, I'm all about the dirty tricks. I'm known for my dirty tricks.
00:05:21
Speaker
Oh yes, yeah, agreed. That's Storsey, old dog. Jamie, your initial reactions or...?
00:05:30
Speaker
I mean, I just think that any serious space opera benefits from folk being dragged up in front of the captain covered in what looks like Italian spaghetti and having a cool eyebrow raised along with the statement, would you care to explain being isolated and left there hanging in the air to generate awkward silences for all?
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah it was a really, I mean I also think it was a really great episode and obviously I love anything that brings people together as friends but also there was so much comedy and like you said I think we'll get into that. So yes I think this was like
00:06:18
Speaker
I understand why you've been a little bit out of love with the last few episodes, but this is kind of classic Voyager, but the comedy version, in a sense, when we do this kind of stuff, coming out again. And I actually, yeah, so let's go on, because I know that there's a format and I was just going to jump in with another thing that I knew, but there was a time and a place for the reaction I was about to give. It's only taken 23 episodes for me, so I had that. I'm out on
Embracing Spontaneity and Humor
00:06:44
Speaker
cost. Another clap.
00:06:46
Speaker
The blame on the pupil reflects badly on the blame from the teacher. Okay, so Jamie, do you want to read us around our new format, which is, you know, our kind of top three highlights, one at a time, three rounds, or three to four rounds, what have we managed? Yes, I think that's a good idea. Great. Well, you did a great job last time, so can you... You're happy to do that again? Oh, I thought you said Jenny. Oh, no, Jamie. I could, but Jenny, you want to do it?
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy with that. I feel like if I'm, you know, facilitator so that I probably shouldn't go first. So I'm going to hand it to Jamie. As you can see, there's no editing, promotion or planning. It's all on the fly.
00:07:33
Speaker
And it's only taken me 23 episodes to inculcate an appreciation for the effortless, brilliant approach to podcast presentation in these two. And they say that I'm a slow learner.
Top Moments and Character Highlights
00:07:44
Speaker
But no, I was really hoping to generate an awkward silence that because I thought you might just have said,
00:07:49
Speaker
Jamie in a way that was ambiguous enough that I could have claimed it to have thought it was Jenny and just kept an awkward silence going on for an indefinite period of time, which only goes to show that we have a cynical and smart saboteur here. However, it falls to me apparently, because someone else who has passed that torch sort of tipped it onto me to set me alight with it to start us off. So
00:08:15
Speaker
I think the first thing that we talk about, and we tend to alternate, are our top three or four moments from the episode. So, Jenny, you do that thing where you... for some reason. But Jenny is leading our round of three.
00:08:33
Speaker
So you weren't telling me to present, you were telling me to tell my favourite moment. I said we're gonna start with Jamie, you start with your favourite moment and then I'll direct it on to whoever's next, maybe to go. I mean one of my favourite things, I actually mentioned my top thing with the skippers,
00:08:53
Speaker
I see, would you care to explain to Tom and Neelix when they had basically hit the nadir of their relationship for the entirety of the series. So I won't go into that one. But I'd actually prefer to start at the end, which is my love for the fact that Neelix is
00:09:11
Speaker
suggested celebratory prandial on arriving home from a dangerous mission, having saved child's life, secured the future of his marriage by removing his chief romantic rival, and received the enthusiastic embraces of his loved one, all at the same time as generating a new and
00:09:34
Speaker
presumably warm friendship with Tom Paris, was a drink made from the secretions of an adult dung hill of adrenal glands, which I just found rather wonderful, as Neelix is apparently also the person in charge of, well, the voyage's victual provisioning. Yes, that drink did not sound appealing to me, I have to be honest, but I loved how they were bonding.
00:10:04
Speaker
I mean, I just love the fact that that's the immediate thing that occurs to them to bond with, or at least Neelix, which is again using him as the comedic relief. And I just just about managed to get over my hatred for Neelix in this one. So it's a good thing. I'm not saying it'll continue. I'm not saying it'll continue. No, you can have emotions. But I would if we had to produce, I would say insert round of applause here.
00:10:28
Speaker
Did you just say you can have emotions? I'm not just having emotions. No I said I'm sure your feelings for him can change over time. Ah right, beg pardon. So that was my first top moment.
00:10:43
Speaker
Thank you, Amy. Yeah, I mean, I have to say, I mean, I feel like that was part of the comedy, maybe the disgustingness of adrenal gland drinks and also follicle harvesting for the dinner. That's probably not my favourite comic moments, but yeah, I kind of appreciate it. Was that a play on like angel hair pasta, but pasta that was actually harvested from people?
00:11:13
Speaker
i reckon so yeah and because you do say it is called angel hair isn't it so yeah presumably it's not actual hair yes actually i mean i really worry about the fact that we are harvesting stuff of real live angels i mean there's going to be hell to pay almost fully in reverse metaphorically but um yeah
00:11:37
Speaker
So, on to Red. What was your first
Tom, Kes, and Relationship Dynamics
00:11:40
Speaker
point, Red? Yeah, so I'm not sure it was like my favorite moment, but in the teaser, in the shuttle, where, I mean, Kiz and Tom Parris had that moment when she stumbled on him. I mean, the way he looks at her is quite
00:11:54
Speaker
I mean, acting there is... I mean, let's be honest, it was a hot moment. It was, I was like, whoa, okay, they need to get all that shuttle stat. I mean, you step away from the three-year-old, Tom Paris. Only two, by the way. Two years old, sorry. But then when they're leaving, you know, after all the excitement and stuff, and I think Keneerik sees them leaving the holiday.
00:12:19
Speaker
and they all like pumped up from the lesson. It did remind me of that research. I have, it's probably been like debug now because the research is just always debunked, but there was that research that came out like that on a first date, you should go like on a roller coaster or do something where your adrenaline gets pumped because you kind of bond faster. So I was like, if I was Neelix, I'd be like, yes, I really wouldn't want to have like my lessons with Tom Harris. Yeah. At that point in time, I could understand a little bit his jealousy based on the research. It's quite a risky,
00:12:49
Speaker
I reckon that research was available to Neelix at the time. That might explain an awful lot. And he was doing so well. I think the last the last step time this sort of jealousy theme came up, he was, you know, holding it together. And then, oh, anyway, we'll get into that. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my kind of something that stood out to me, I guess. Cool. And then my
00:13:17
Speaker
My first point on these top three to four moments was, I mean, it was hard to pick because it was just a comedy in general, particular quotes. So I picked two. One of them, in fact, although I think there was a lot from, you know, Paris and Nelix who were sort of the main
00:13:40
Speaker
main characters in this episode, I did really enjoy the doctors, the delivery of the doctors. I'm a doctor, not a boy, yeah. It was mostly delivered in desperation, though, wasn't it? Because by that stage, everything he'd said had only incriminated him further, and he'd only
00:14:00
Speaker
It was on the captain realising that the doctor eavesdrops on her conversations with Chakotay, who she then sort of dispatches with extreme prejudice to have a word and review the operational protocols. But it almost sounds like a desperate denial of guilt. It was a very suspicious denial of guilt. Very suspicious delivery. It was his facial expressions, what he was saying as well.
00:14:26
Speaker
It's always the way of the doctorates, the delivery with the facial expressions that really gets me. But also, I have to say, there's one quote that Tom gave that I actually just can't stop laughing at it even now. I don't even really know why. It's not that funny. But for some reason, when they're deciding what to do with the little baby alien, and Neelix is advocating that they need to stay and look after it, and it needs nurturing. And Tom just says,
00:14:52
Speaker
What do you want to do? Wait till it graduates high school? Stop laughing at that one. It was really funny. I mean, go ahead Jamie. Strawpole, was the baby cute? The baby was hilarious. Basically looked like a miniature dino, but I'm not sure if it's cute or not.
00:15:17
Speaker
It reminded me, sorry, I would go sidetrack as a bit. I don't know if you would have seen this show called The Dinosaurs, it was like in the 90s. Oh my gosh, yes. That is exactly what it is, yeah. What? I mean, when I googled, as this baby popped up, the baby creature, I was like, nah, nah, nah, nah. Wow, I'd forgotten that existed. I do know exactly what you mean though.
00:15:42
Speaker
But I also wrote down a couple of lines that I might add to this comedic, all the humor that was in the show. But when they're rolling around, when Nelix and Paris are rolling around in the metal, having the food fight, because now Nelix just can't hold it anymore. And he's like, Nelix is like, I'll kill you. So Paris is like, I bet your hip has already did the job or something. That was a good one. Paris had some great lines actually. Yeah.
00:16:12
Speaker
And, um, I thought I had one more, but I think, yeah. I also did think it was very funny, Jamie, you already touched on this moment when, um, now Harry and, sorry, Tom and Niex are in front of the captain.
00:16:24
Speaker
She's like, am I sensing a personal problem here? I need expenses to be honest. And she's just like, solve it. Oh my goodness. Red, we have overlap. That was on my list as well. That was going to be like my favorite classic Janeway moment. Am I detecting some sort of personal solution? Solve it. I love that. Also because I think it does like play with your expectations a bit because it is classic Janeway, but she could have equally been like,
00:16:52
Speaker
Oh, tell me about it. Like you need to go see a therapist. I was like, you know, but this time she has no patience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do that. That whole scene I thought was great, actually, like one of the other points I had was about the expressions Tom and Neelix have their awkwardness on their faces when they're sort of, she's asked the question, but they're sort of, you can see they're deciding whether to, what to do, whether to say, no, no problem at all. Or yes, well, actually, here is the problem. And maybe we should go and
00:17:22
Speaker
I just thought that was really well acted. But I've accidentally delved into my second point. I apologize. We don't have to be entirely chronological. Oh, it's the pressure of being the facilitator of this episode. Getting to me. I will hand it back to you, Jay.
00:17:41
Speaker
for your second moment. Ah, so my next bit that I absolutely found hysterical was finding out that Tom's love language is his ears going orange, as the doctor itself cares how he knows that Tom is attracted to her by the fact that every time she enters the room, Tom's respiratory rate
00:18:07
Speaker
increases his pupils dilate and his ears turn orange and that originally he thought it was some sort of an outbreak of Cardassian flu but then he sort of realized it happened every time Kez came into the room so that he realized it was actually that which I found hysterical. Very funny but also like very um if you're Tom you'd be like
00:18:31
Speaker
It's always horrible when you find out you're an open book, in a sense. Oh, people can tell, that's what I was thinking. Oh no, oh no, people can tell. I mean, it does rather undermine the doctor's claim that he's a doctor and not a voyeur. Just saying. He's watching them closely. He was, that dirty sense. Anyway, sorry. Keep it in your pants, you dirty beggar. As Brian Lessard once said,
00:18:59
Speaker
What did you think of Kess's reaction when doctors telling her that you haven't noticed, that you seriously haven't noticed that Tom is into you? Oh yeah, that was a good question. I didn't, I was busy laughing to be honest. Should I have noticed something? Am I blind?
00:19:20
Speaker
Not particularly. I just felt I did find it a bit odd. Her reaction. I don't know if it was like a delivery choice. But she was talking about how she was really just really angry at them both. And upset. And at the same time, she's sort of smirking. I don't know if that was like playing on. Secretly, she's quite happy. Yeah, she's got two men after her. Yeah, because I mean,
00:19:49
Speaker
Let's face it, I think Tom Parris is handsome and it's supposed to be handsome. I don't think it's them. That's true. And really flattered like in some way. I mean, yes. I'm just thinking of had things gone otherwise and
00:20:11
Speaker
I don't know, Kes fall in love with Tom Parris of Tom Parris being stuck in that mating ritual, eating earth, basically imitating a giant praying mantis. Oh no, don't go back to that episode. So disgusting. Okay, cool. So Red, what's your second moment? Yes, I did love the appearance of Harry's oboe.
00:20:40
Speaker
Because I think it does come up a few more times over the older series. I guess it must be the first time we've seen it not because he said he had eaten Neelix's food, put Neelix getting more jokes about his cuisine, and used his rations to, I guess, replicate the oboe.
00:20:57
Speaker
And, but it also reminded me, I'm sure on the Delta players podcast, I heard Garrett Wang say, but not like, I haven't listened to this recently, but I'm sure he would say something about how he would should be given like a more sexier or cooler instrument than the old one. But that's part of his career. Exactly. I mean, it's like a pancake. Exactly. If like Harry Kim was like, I don't know, doing a sax to the side that just wouldn't have made a lot of sense.
00:21:22
Speaker
I found that one of the most touching sort of personal moments between Harry and Tom Paris, which is effectively come to dump his woes on Harry, which is kind of touching. It's a bit weird. Oh, I've suddenly realised I'm in love with her. He's a bit old and long in the tooth for that to be a late realisation. A whole ship full of women.
00:21:51
Speaker
Is it real? I was surprised he used the phrase. Sorry, you went back so I didn't hear you. Oh, I just I just asked if the ship really was full of full of women and then sort of asked about gender ratios on the command staff and things like that.
Character Development and Themes
00:22:08
Speaker
But that was my sort of podcast HR moment. Well, I mean, I kind of agree. I was a little bit like surprised that they admitted to being in love with her. Yeah. But I guess you took it that very nice birthday present.
00:22:20
Speaker
That's true. I also, you reminded me, you know, I love that scene because I quite enjoyed Harry's response as well. Like he wasn't all immediately, yeah, he wasn't immediately like, oh, Paul, you, this is.
00:22:31
Speaker
really sad if you were anything. He was a bit more sort of, you bring it on yourself. You think, you really, you like having these crises, don't you? Or something, I probably would have said, but he was sort of saying something about him enjoying the drama or something, which Tom then seemed to consider, which was a thought very, you know,
00:22:51
Speaker
self-aware of him, just, you know, considering Harry's opinion and wondering if that's accurate and maybe he can do something about not getting himself into these situations. Maybe it's a bit of a self-sabotage thing. Agree. Yeah, it was a good to see their friendship and their kind of candour. Yeah, their closeness. Also, I have a question. Is it a clarinet? I feel like it's a clarinet. Oh yes, sorry clarinet.
00:23:20
Speaker
I feel like I should know because I did play the clarinet when I was a band geek with the clarinet. I mean I saw millions of clarinets but yes, yes I think you write as a clarinet. Anywho, cool. So I feel like I've kind of covered my second one a little bit because it was about this sort of acting choice of guesses when she was
00:23:47
Speaker
talking to the doctor about the situation. I just found that a bit of an odd one. So I was curious to hear your thoughts on that. But it sounds like I'm the only one who noticed that. No, I think I agree with you. But I'm trying to remember now and I can't remember it exactly. But I kind of I do remember being like a bit surprised at her reaction. Like it wasn't I don't know, it wasn't like
00:24:16
Speaker
complete denial, like there's no way she could have possibly known. And as you say, a bit of, she's not upset because I guess why should she be upset? But she's more upset at being like maybe told that you should have known or you've kind of just been ignoring it. I mean, this is what I'm supposed to do. I can't exactly go to two parties and go, you stop being into me and you stop being jealous. It's a difficult conversation to have. Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I did appreciate the explanation. There was a little bit of an explanation behind it when she said that where she comes from, it just would never happen because they have this, you know, you pick a mate for life and then everyone just stays in their mates. So at least that might explain why she would maybe not. I love the doctor's response, though.
00:25:06
Speaker
Oh, what was the other one? So to finding out that a conference only picked one makes, and that's just how it is. Yes, and that explains why your literature is so dry. Oh, yes, of course. That is a good line. So I will send it back, Jay's way.
00:25:24
Speaker
Hmm, interested. So I had another sort of comedic moment where the doctor is telling Kess that, you know, he's not finding the situation amusing in the slightest and that it was a situation as old as time that, you know, a woman being forced over and that he could show her the autopsy reports going back as far as the
00:25:51
Speaker
something like the 1500s. And she said, you're not taking this seriously. I'm not interested in that. And he goes, you're always interested in autopsy reports. Like, this isn't funny or something. He's like, I'm not trying to be funny. You're probably interested. Yeah, very.
00:26:06
Speaker
There was so much humour in this episode actually. Yeah. It's almost like an episode of 30 Rock where if you blink you'll miss it. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I wonder if, because they get different people to direct them, don't they? And write. Yeah, that's true. And produce, actually. Maybe more the writing in this one. I mean, there will be showrunners who manage the overall quality of the scripts and the groups break down.
00:26:36
Speaker
they break down the story and stuff as a group. But then one person goes away and writes the episode, I think. Oh, cool. Well, they did a great job. Great job on this one. Well done, whoever it was. No, I've not really touched on the egg at all. We haven't. We were sticking to all this sort of comedic moments rather than like the main cause for the story, which is the aliens. But I guess they're not in it much.
00:27:04
Speaker
Anyway, Red. Is that my turn? Yes. Well, I think maybe, I don't know if anyone put it, I can't remember if I see, but I think maybe something we can all discuss is really that, how kind of Neelix and Tom bond in this episode. And I think for me, it starts when Tom is sharing a little bit on the alien planet, or the impasse alien planet, and
00:27:31
Speaker
He's sharing for some reason about, oh yes, but he did learn some survival skills at the academy, but he only got a B minus, and then he makes just like a B minus. And he's like, well, my dad was the, you know, the instructor. And what does, and you know, Niex questions that. I guess he wasn't into, I guess he didn't do favorites. Yes. And like, that's like just planting a seed for like, I guess humanizing Tom or Niex. And then there are a lot,
00:27:57
Speaker
I mean, we can probably talk about, you know, the apology scene. I don't know if anyone has put that in there, but that is quite a big, big element. But it, you know, yeah, sorry. No, sorry, sorry. I wasn't sure if you wanted just to comment as well. Yeah, opening it up to what did you guys think about how they manage that kind of arc and the moments in it?
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I didn't actually put it in the notes. But in fact, yeah, like that's sort of the big main theme, isn't it? Jealousy, but then growing into friendship, bromance, which I mean, I loved it. I thought it was really well done.
00:28:38
Speaker
Even to the extent that I thought the conflict throughout the first half was really well done as well, with the silly sniping remarks they made to each other in the shuttle on the way down, just being very irritable with each other, I thought was actually quite realistic. I can imagine being like that when Jay and I spent too much time together. I can't imagine that for a moment. When does that ever happen? Oh, you mean me? Oh, ouch.
00:29:04
Speaker
Sorry. And then, you know, I just yeah, I thought, I mean, it's just classic Star Trek, isn't it? That the whole like, apology, someone apologizes, they do it in a really genuine and sort of grown up manner. And then the other person actually accepts that. And then, you know, sort of apologizes a bit himself and sort of very open and honest with each other. And it's just, for me, it's the classic, if only
00:29:29
Speaker
if only real life was like that. Yeah, I felt very, I don't know if you get this, but I remember when I first watched this episode, and even now rewatching it, when you can see that Tom's about to admit that Neelix isn't totally crazy.
00:29:49
Speaker
I sort of want to scream don't do it don't do it and it's all going to go horrible oh my goodness he's you're finally getting on and then you're going to tell him that you fancy his girlfriend he's all going to get horribly wrong and then um you know it's just yeah it's just incredibly um refreshing I guess to you know he is open about it and then Neelix has a very grown up attitude about it you know he accepts that he's attracted to his spouse and
00:30:14
Speaker
But also that he's drawn a line that he won't ever cross. And I think that's what enables it. Exactly. It is a very grown up view, I think, and like realistic, which I like. Yeah, because I mean, you can't really, especially in their circumstances, help too much who you're attracted to. But you can help, you can choose to do
00:30:38
Speaker
just what to do, I guess, if you feel that way about someone who is or isn't available or is or isn't interested or always. Yeah, exactly. Jamie, what did you think about the... What did I think about...? Their apology scene or that scene where they kind of tomshade and...
00:30:59
Speaker
I thought it felt heartfelt and also natural, which is a lovely way to be able to to provide steam like that. So all good. Yeah, I was impressed. Yeah, I just always say like babies bring people together. And this episode
00:31:21
Speaker
Oh, that baby, though, is hilarious. Yeah, well, great. I don't know. Do we want to talk about? Do we want to answer your question, Janie? Is the baby cute?
00:31:33
Speaker
Oh yes, I mean I was trying to avoid answering clearly no by saying it's hilarious. I mean it's not cute to me but I'm not sure I find human babies that cute so I might just be an anomaly.
00:31:53
Speaker
Uh, that was actually funny because I just, as you said, that something snapped, like, you know, popped into my mind is that when that, uh, adult alien arrives on the planet or comes back or whatever to retrieve the baby, like I didn't find that alien as ridiculous looking as I found the baby. I agree.
00:32:12
Speaker
I think there are people who like, you know, when a baby is very newborn, it's not necessarily cute at that specific moment. So, you know, it is parallel, paralleling. I'm just thinking about the human experience. Because it was not a cute baby when it came off the show. Sorry, Jamie. Oh, no, don't worry about it. I mean, I did.
00:32:33
Speaker
I did absolutely find hilarious the fact that both of them looked like a specific alien race called the lizard men from Doctor Who. I thought the baby was cute. Baby dinosaur sort of way. Jurassic Park ish.
00:32:58
Speaker
I did enjoy the whole, it was a bit sort of lost in the fact that there were so many other good moments in this episode and such great content. But I did enjoy the fact that there was this whole story arc about how they're trying to work out what to feed the baby. And meanwhile, they're getting, they're trying to keep away from the vapors of the planet, which seem to be searing their skin. And it turns out those vapors are searing their skin because they're full of amino acids, which is how the baby
00:33:26
Speaker
actually feeds. And I thought, oh, that's quite a nice little mini story there. Yeah, I agree. It was super interesting, actually. I mean, just from a scientific or theoretical point of view. Yeah, they inhale their food. I guess it's kind of similar to... They respire their food. They what? They respire their food.
00:33:51
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes. I see it was similar to I think there's some whales where they sort of filter water through and then from from the water they absorb the crumb. Ah, yeah. Reminds me of that. So I have actually done that thing again, where I got too overexcited. And I basically just
00:34:15
Speaker
spoke through all of my talking points as we were going through. So I do apologise. I'm going to hand it back to Jake, unless we've gone through all yours.
Comedic Elements and the Doctor's Antics
00:34:23
Speaker
Well, we happen to have touched on one of them, which was that your literature must be very dry. And also the fact, I think we've also touched on the fact that the doctor very kindly tells Kes that she needs a few more years on the clock before she realises when folk are into her.
00:34:42
Speaker
at the young old age of two, but I'm not going to go into the questions that that arises because this is awkward territory for Star Trek. I do think we should talk about the Captain and the discovery that the Doctor has been eavesdropping on
00:35:02
Speaker
core leadership team interactive sessions on the basis that I'm the doctor, I need to know. I'm not a voyeur. I just think it's an unusually severe response from the captain to this, with a hint of a smile at the same time. Yeah, I mean, what did you think, Toni?
00:35:28
Speaker
I think it's a fair response. He's not a person at that stage. Well, yeah, but he's made a fuss. I don't know if it's happened yet, but he does make a fuss about being afforded the same rights as a person. And so surely that means that the laws apply to him as well. And other crew members wouldn't be allowed to keep on people. Would he be allowed to marry a crew member?
00:35:55
Speaker
Are you asking whether I think he should be or with it? Whether he is currently, as things stand. Well, could you start a crew member from marrying him? Yeah. If he didn't want to be married by the crew member and they just married him, would they have the right to stop or would he have the right to stop them? These are the questions that this podcast was formed to get into. These are the questions that boggle my mind.
00:36:24
Speaker
But I mean, what I wasn't super clear to me is like in that instance, it made a 1000% sense that he was eavesdropping because thanks to him, they had the stuff to protect their skin. So is he just eavesdropping on like the bridge conversations or like all conversations? Yeah, because I can kind of understand if he's eavesdropping on the bridge. It's a good question, because I, knowing his character. What is the captain hiding?
00:36:54
Speaker
Jenny, what were you going to say? I mean, obviously we don't know the answer, but based on his character, I would I would guess that it's the bridge conversations because you know how later in later episodes he's really like, oh, I want to I want to have like emergency command of the ship if needed. And I want to I think he just wants to be feel like he's important, you know, he's part of the leadership team and
00:37:17
Speaker
So I can absolutely imagine him listening in to rich conversations specifically to try and feel like he's a part of the top tier, you know? Yes, I agree. Yeah, so those are my last ones, which sort of zonked through.
00:37:34
Speaker
Red. Yeah, I think we've covered all of my NOS4. It's not a bad thing, because we've had 37 minutes, so... Oh, we've got to... Yeah, I liked it. Stop there. Stop there. Themes. Well, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, themes is next on the beautiful agenda, which we'll just put together.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I haven't written them down, but for me, obviously, a big part of it was jealousy. Again, this is just to be a big theme in the early episodes of Star Trek. That's what jealousy is about. And nice to see them sort of finding a way around it or how to manage it. And then what were your guys' themes?
00:38:22
Speaker
maybe so much as this theme last week, or the last episode, but I think, you know, trust,
00:38:32
Speaker
In the sense that what A, Neelix and Tom had to just trust each other and go on this mission whether they like it or not. So it's kind of forced trust in a sense. That's kind of enforced by the hierarchy of the way a softy works and everything. But then when Paris decides to share the truth with Neelix, like the full truth, and
00:39:00
Speaker
I've been watching like Law and Order or something and it's just like, you know, I do believe that like, it's better to know the truth than people trying to protect you from something or keep stuff from you because that seems to cause more trouble at the end. I mean, these are methods I learned from TV, not so much from real life. But yeah, but I guess the way it changed, but now that, as I said, the way it kind of changed from that, like kind of enforced trust to the kind of genuine trust between them.
00:39:28
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you, Red. I think in general, that's my philosophy as well. I mean, it's different from being truthful, open and honest to like blunt, brutal, unnecessary truth. Obviously, but no, in general, I think even in real life, I think you otherwise, I always, I always kind of believe that the person
00:39:51
Speaker
who's not in the know on some level feels that. Yeah. Yeah. Even if they don't know it, they feel something's not right. And it then affects them. I have heard that in terms of stories about adoption and from people who were adopted. I mean, again, you know, anecdotally, I'm not sure.
00:40:08
Speaker
And there's that author. Ah, what's her name? She does memoirs. I think she writes about this. But yes, and also I think people need to have all the right information to make the best choices for themselves at the end of the day. Yeah, absolutely. What about you, Jay? What themes?
00:40:34
Speaker
The first episode where I didn't actually want to throw him out the airlock. So that's a positive, but yours were better, I think. But yours was more humorous. You've got the balance right, guys. Yeah, two third substance, one third vacuosity.
Leadership and Conflict Resolution
00:40:55
Speaker
Silliness. Gotta have a bit of silliness.
00:40:57
Speaker
Yep, yep. Yeah, I think so. Stop Liz. Oh wait, can I just say on the scenes? I just want to know if someone's put Janeway Zaz. Obviously it wasn't me. I just want to know that by now.
00:41:16
Speaker
I don't know why we wouldn't know that wasn't you, Red. Janeway's bass was very Janeway. So this was a symptom of two things. One, which was Janeway being absolutely hilarious, this episode and some absolutely cutting sarcasm. And two, the fact that the S on my keyboard isn't working, so I tried to successfully mess with the Z.
00:41:41
Speaker
it's meant to be Janeway's sass. But yes, we are where we are. I'll ask you no questions, I'll tell you no lies. There is always a corporate lesson to draw from Star Trek, I think, or management lesson if you want. Sometimes don't tolerate any nonsense from your team members. Yeah, I think she was blunted and to the point, but you know, clear and fair and
00:42:10
Speaker
solve it just solve it yeah she doesn't pick any sides she was just like just fucking solve it jfd i um sorry i don't know why i'm going into corporate speaking weird voices at the stage of the evening uh should have happened earlier if at all i did um i just really loved that whole scene and like even to the instant where you know where they're in the mess hall beforehand and she buzzes over the phrases buzzes them and then her paris sort of says
00:42:41
Speaker
Right now? When they're both covered in all this sketchiness. Can I also point out, and this is part of the redemption of Neelix, that he was winning the fight at that stage because he was on top of Paris at that stage when he was stopped. Oh well. Who would win, do we think? In a fight Paris against Neelix. Oh, this is tough. I mean, Paris is a hard-hewn, rough-living gambler from the Alpha Quadrant.
00:43:10
Speaker
He's been in prison. Yeah. But I don't know. Neelix Neelix has lived it rough and been a frontiersman. So exactly. Yeah. I think Neelix in this fight, he's got more to lose. Yeah. Cool. Right. Is that all the themes?
00:43:36
Speaker
I think so, yeah. It feels like a healthy amount of themes. Yes. And it means we can move on to my favourite bit, well, one of my favourite bits, Star Player. I don't know why that's the theme for Star Player, but it's going to be... It's about like a stripping theme. I don't know. Is it? Do we need the rights to the music? How do you know it's a stripping theme?
00:44:01
Speaker
I don't know, really. It's just popped into my mind. Maybe our fans can tell us. Anyone? Is that a stripping theme? Write in and let us know for the next show. We'll read it out, but we'll also treat you with a huge amount of suspicion for knowing the answer. So I mean, I think this is a difficult one to call. I think there were a lot of star players.
00:44:27
Speaker
I think I'm going to get you guys to give us. Okay. I think the lizard baby has played an absolute blinder because it's managed to use an inter-diplomatic species first contact event to broker a... God bless. ...piece between two jealous lovers
00:44:53
Speaker
breaking up a dynamic as old as the human race in a non-violent way completely differently to the way that Romeo and Juliet turned out. And now I'm just saying words because Jen has gone offline. She just doesn't do it. I don't know if she'll pause or just give her a moment. Lamp. Brazier. Lamp shade. Sofa. I love lamps.
00:45:20
Speaker
Is that from... I was going to say, I was going to ask, is it a quote from Anchorman or is it... I went to the stand-up comedy show once and for some reason I... It is definitely a quote from Anchorman. Brick Tamland. I love that. Okay, should we pause and wait for Jenny to come back? I mean, we could just keep saying random words until she comes back. That could be a thing as well. I've given you a couple of random words. I think it's yours then. Yeah, she comes.
00:45:48
Speaker
Pomegranate. I'm so sorry guys. I had not plugged in my laptop. And you were so mean to me before when I left to plug mine in and I didn't even go offline. Red said a mean thing about Brick Townland. I love love. It's not a mean thing. It's like the equivalent of I am Groot. It can mean anything that the sayer means it to.
00:46:17
Speaker
I was about to comment, Jay, that your Star Player choice, I'm thinking somewhere, someone somewhere who designed and created that baby is very pleased. And so they should be. So they should be. Yes, getting the recognition they deserve. Agreed. Did I miss who? I don't know. Right, next Star Player choice after the eclectic. Let's go for the stellar.
00:46:48
Speaker
Jane, are you ready yet? No, because then I started panicking, trying to get my laptop back. Okay. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. I mean, actually, I think I'd like to extend, well no, Carrie, I've made my choice and now I regret it. We can come, we can circle back. I, I do know what I've made mine. Okay, go for it. I'll go if you're not ready. There will be no circling back. I think also because actually I'm probably unlikely to pick
00:47:18
Speaker
him in many future ones because there aren't many, you know, there's other characters who stand out more frequently, you know, like the Doctor and Jane many things. So because it was my
00:47:31
Speaker
favourite line. I'm going to go for Tom Parrish. Oh, yes. I just I just love the graduation line. I thought there are other hilarious comic lines. And I also just thought his acting, the whole like awkwardness of it, the little irritational conflict moments with Nelix and all those bits were just really well done. I think that is a great choice. And please just give us that line again, if you can remember it.
00:48:00
Speaker
Oh, when Neelix is trying to say, we need to look after the baby. We need to take care of it. I mean, we've got to nurture it. And Paris just says, what do you want to do? Wait until it's high school graduation. Sorry. I'm glad I'm not the only one who appreciates that. You've reminded me of the other line that I really like. If you hear muffled screams, that's a cry to be teleported out. Oh, yes. At the very end. Oh, yeah.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, this really was comedy gold. Okay, then I think my star player is a bit random and maybe it should... Oh, you know. Is it difficult? No, I'm gonna, I think, yeah, I was gonna go a bit random, but I think I'm gonna go with Neelix because yes, he's jealous. Yes, he's actually not that brave. He's not that brave. Like he, I think he wants to pull out of their mission when they encounter that, you know,
00:48:59
Speaker
if I remember correctly, he's not like super brave, but he was, he knew exactly what they were supposed to do when it came to finding this, you know, vulnerable creature and really embraced being a godmother as he was like nominated by Paris. And yeah, I thought, overall, again, I mean, he, you know, I think he's a brilliant actor, but in this episode, I think we'll give him the star player. That's cool.
00:49:27
Speaker
Um, I actually really, as we spoke, wanted to revise mine, but it might mean that I need to revise my star player in previous episodes as well. We're not going that far back. Well, I just feel that on discovering that the Doctor has been hearing everything on the bridge, like, this is a level of espionage we haven't seen in this universe before, and like, everyone would want to do that, so maybe he was a star player in all the previous episodes where he heard what was going on.
00:49:57
Speaker
Yeah. I maneuvered the situation to the greater good. So maybe the doctor. Okay. Interesting. Oh, an interesting thought experiment. I can go back and watch the episode thinking, what's the doctor this day? Yeah. And was he the reason this was okay?
00:50:18
Speaker
But obviously that's funny, because that might make me think the opposite, that we should rescind all his previous arguments. Because actually he's had this secret extra knowledge that he's, it's not been a fair game. That's true. When you say espionage, you know, it makes me think of, I don't know about that, there's some serious espionage game in the, I think it's Deep Space Nine, is it? I guess Cardassian? Yes, yes.
00:50:45
Speaker
And he's like a spy or something. And that's all very sort of like a dagger. Oh, what's his name? I can't remember. You do. I know. The tailor. Yeah. Yes. He's a tailor. He's a tailor in the quotation marks. I mean, that character is like, this is a huge talent. It's just so brilliant because you rarely never actually know where you stand. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a clever storyline. Yeah. Oh.
00:51:15
Speaker
Well, thank you, Jenny. Yeah. Good, I think. Wow. Less than an hour. Yeah, well driven folk. I think we've done well there. I'm going to play us out with our random jingle and then we can, which I don't fade out, so sorry when it stops abruptly. Thanks, everyone. Bye.
00:51:46
Speaker
dance party here.