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The Fight for My Marriage: Breaking Free from Addiction by Anthony Curnutt
105 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of The Shameless Podcast, Ken Freire interviews Anthony Curnutt on overcoming addiction, rebuilding trust in marriage, and embracing biblical masculinity. Learn how Anthony fought to restore his marriage after battling pornography addiction and how men can step into their God-given roles.
This conversation is a must-listen for men struggling with addiction, marriage challenges, or seeking biblical masculinity.
Key Takeaways & Lessons:
✅ Secrets Destroy Trust: Hiding addiction for years created shame and guilt, leading to the near collapse of his marriage.
✅ Healing Requires Surrender: True healing began when Anthony fully surrendered his struggles to Jesus, accountability partners, and trusted mentors.
✅ Marriage Needs Boundaries: To rebuild trust, Anthony and his wife set strong boundaries, including full transparency with passwords, accountability, and open conversations.
✅ Biblical Masculinity is Key: Society distorts masculinity, but men are called to be spiritual leaders, embracing God’s design for manhood.
Top Quotes from the Episode:
💬 “You cannot have a thriving marriage with secrets.” – Anthony Curnutt
💬 “Jesus wants all of us healed—not just from sin, but from the wounds that led us into sin.” – Anthony Curnutt
💬 “Every man needs three people in his life: a mentor, a mentee, and a brother who will fight alongside him.” – Anthony Curnutt
Resources & Where to Find Anthony Curnutt:
📖 Book: Framework for Biblical Masculinity – Available on Amazon
🌐 Website: Real Men Ministries
📲 Follow on Social Media:
- Facebook Group: Real Men Ministries: Becoming a Spiritual Leader
- Instagram, X (Twitter), TikTok: @RealMenMinistries
🎙️ Podcast: Real Men Talk Podcast
Final Thoughts:
If you're struggling with addiction, shame, or marriage struggles, this episode is for you. Remember: healing takes time, but it is possible. Take the first step by reaching out for help, surrounding yourself with godly men, and leaning into God’s grace.
📩 Liked this episode? Share it with a friend who needs encouragement! 🚀
Recommended
Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Anthony Kernut and His Journey
00:00:30
Ken Freire
All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode. And today, I have with me Anthony, who... Wow. Hold on a second. How do you say your last name?
00:00:40
Ken Freire
Kernet?
00:00:40
Anthony Curnutt
Cur nut, yep, just like it's about cur nut.
00:00:42
Ken Freire
K... Kernet. Okay.
00:00:44
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah.
00:00:45
Ken Freire
Let me start that over again.
00:00:47
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:00:49
Ken Freire
Alright, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Shameless Podcast. I'm super excited. Today, I have Anthony Kernut with
Struggles with Addiction and Marital Challenges
00:00:58
Ken Freire
me. He is the leader of Real Men Ministries and the host of Real Men Talk Podcast, and he is an advocate for biblical masculinity. And what I love about the conversation we're going to have today is just a fight for marriage and how Anthony almost lost his marriage, but how he redeemed it and how God redeemed it healed him to be able to fight for it because of all the addiction that he struggled with. So, Anthony, welcome to the podcast, man. How are you doing today?
00:01:26
Anthony Curnutt
Man, I'm wonderful. Ken, thank you so much for allowing me, you know, for the invite, for for all of this. I love what you're doing. I love this ministry and I am excited for this conversation.
00:01:37
Ken Freire
Yeah. Dude, I remember our first conversation, you and I just kept going on and on because we were like just kind of fired up. We have very kindred spirits. We want to see men to live out their God-given purpose and their calling, so it's fun, man.
00:01:44
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:01:50
Anthony Curnutt
Yes, absolutely.
00:01:50
Ken Freire
But for those people who don't know you, right?
00:01:54
Ken Freire
And, you know, a lot of times we come into podcasts, it can be a little bit more professional and stuff like that. But we want to get to know the real Anthony. So tell us something just like either weird or silly about Anthony that most people wouldn't know from just listening to the podcast content that we're going to talk about today.
Hobbies and Personal Interests
00:02:10
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah, so I'm I'm a little bit of a nerd, right?
00:02:13
Ken Freire
All right.
00:02:13
Anthony Curnutt
I love I love Lord of the Rings. I love Harry Potter. I love, you know, play video games, you know, and which is which is kind of odd because nobody ever gets to see that side of me, you know what I mean?
00:02:24
Anthony Curnutt
And but yeah, you know, it's just just one of those things I enjoy doing.
00:02:29
Ken Freire
Oh, that's awesome, man. Okay, so when you say you're like a nerd, like how deep nerdum do you go down this rabbit hole? Is it like you've read all the books, movies, like you got like your own like shrine at home or...
00:02:43
Anthony Curnutt
No, not that deep. I would be, you know, but I've definitely seen all the movies. I watch them all the time. As a matter of fact, my wife gets on to me every time, you know, me and the kids will sit down. We'll have a Harry Potter marathon, a Lord of the Rings marathon. You know, I've seen them all like 100 times. But but I've not read the books. A lot of people would say that, you know.
00:03:03
Anthony Curnutt
I'm not really a fan, whatever, but anyways, I, I still love it. Right. play some call of duty, you know, those types of things, but no, no shrines, nothing like that. I've got little kids, so they tear up everything.
00:03:14
Anthony Curnutt
Right. And so, yeah, I don't even bother with any of that stuff. But, but yeah, I used to be a, something real funny. I used to be a video game collector. I had all the systems, right. And then we started having kids and I was like, okay, it's time to get rid of all this stuff.
00:03:26
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:03:27
Anthony Curnutt
And, uh, but yeah, I've always been kind of an advocate.
00:03:28
Ken Freire
Because they'll break it anyways. At some point, they'll find they're like, oh, what's this cartridge thing?
00:03:30
Anthony Curnutt
That's.
00:03:32
Ken Freire
Well, they wouldn't even know what it's called, right? But they're like, what is this?
00:03:34
Anthony Curnutt
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Let's spit in it or, you know, you know, go to the toilet or, you know, you something.
00:03:41
Ken Freire
Dude, I have like, so I have four kids and I have like my babies, right? Every year for the last eight years. They would grab my phone and they're just trying to like chew on it. Like, I don't know, like, right?
00:03:49
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:03:50
Ken Freire
And it's like, dude, I don't need your saliva all over the microphone. I could see them doing that with a cartridge.
00:03:53
Anthony Curnutt
That's right.
00:03:56
Anthony Curnutt
Yes. One hundred percent.
00:03:57
Ken Freire
Cool, man. Okay, so Anthony, you're a big fan. It sounds like every quarter you're doing some sort of marathon in your house, so I'll make sure to hit you up whenever I need a marathon, buddy.
00:04:03
Anthony Curnutt
Yes. All right. Yes.
Impact of Pornography Addiction on Marriage
00:04:09
Ken Freire
Well, Anthony, man, today we're going to talk about this topic about fighting for your marriage and how you had almost lost your marriage, right? So walk us through, like, what were the struggles you faced early on with addiction and how did that impact your life and marriage?
00:04:25
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah. And so really, it stands back for me being very young, right? So I've become addicted to pornography when I was five years old. And because of that, I had a very skewed view women, right? Even though I was kind of raised in church, right? For the most part, I'd never learned the importance of, a a you know, my parents are still, so I come from a broken home. I'm adopted by my dad, but they got married whenever I was, I don't know, six or seven. They've been married for 30 something years now, right?
00:04:59
Anthony Curnutt
And so I've seen, I've seen what that type of marriage looks like. but I did not understand. I didn't understand what it took, right? And because of my addiction to pornography, it really, it really just skewed my view of even my wife, even, you know, we were married for, I don't know, six, seven years before, you know,
00:05:23
Anthony Curnutt
everything kind of expired and I almost lost my marriage and I was like, wait a minute, what is What is going on? you And a lot of prayer, a lot of stuff like that, but that addiction to pornography, it's so...
00:05:37
Anthony Curnutt
You know took me over I mean anybody who's ever ever dealt with you know, really it's not any different than any other addiction, right? You know, it's on your mind all the time. You just can't seem to get past it can't seem to get away from it You're constantly hiding so then comes shame then comes guilt then comes all those things which do not play a very good part inside marriage, right and Not having a complete understanding of what a biblical marriage in and of myself for myself Was supposed to look like I, you know, it was just something that I had tucked off to the side. I thought was okay. You know, ah well, well, I mean, I knew it was wrong. I knew my addiction to pornography was wrong, but I just thought it was going to be okay. Right. As long as I kept everything hidden, I would never have to worry about it. and you can't, you cannot have a thriving marriage.
00:06:25
Anthony Curnutt
with secrets, you can't. It doesn't work that way. Eventually those secrets, you know, just like the Bible says, you know, your sins will find you out, you know, or light will, will shine on the sins. And, and, and so, and that's exactly why it happened.
00:06:40
Ken Freire
Yeah. So, what did happen? You know, for six years you were hiding it, you know, it was always maybe on your phone or or different things like that, but you did a decent job at hiding in it, but then six years later it came out. What happened?
00:06:52
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah. So, you know, and really it's it's weird. So this is pretty like phone days, right? You know, because I'm that old and my wife and I, we've been married for 21 years now. And and so, you know, we had been married for about six years and and it was weird because I really thought that I was kind of over it. Right. But what had happened was we didn't have a computer in the house for a long time.
00:07:17
Anthony Curnutt
And, uh, we had got this computer and stuff and it instantly, you know, that, that addiction just, just snatched me up. And, I had, I had been viewing it, you know, when the kids went to bed, when she went to bed, you know, I'd find excuses to be on the computer all the time, you know, and stuff like that. And, and we, um, one day I forgot to delete my history.
00:07:39
Anthony Curnutt
And she got on there and she found it and it was, it was devastating. It it just crushed her. And, and that was, that was a real, a real eye-opener, right?
00:07:52
Anthony Curnutt
the, that type of guilt and that type of shame being exposed was one. It was so hard for her. you know, she didn't, she can't, she can't understand, right. what it is for a man to deal with pornography. Not, not that I'm in any means, uh, being an advocate for it, right. in we'll discuss that in further detail later on in the podcast. but But the struggle that is there, I might as well just cheated on her in her mind. I completely destroyed her trust. you On top of lying to her, hiding things from her, all of that stuff coming out all at the same time. And it rocked her to the point that, I mean, we almost ended up in divorce.
00:08:36
Anthony Curnutt
And, uh, it was, it was a terrifying moment for for me, because it's something that I never wanted, you know, I had experienced before, you know, my mother was divorced. You know, we come, uh, I come from a broken home, even though my parents now that.
00:08:52
Anthony Curnutt
Once they got married, they've been married for a long time, but I never wanted my kids to experience divorce,
Healing and Rebuilding Trust Through Faith
00:08:58
Anthony Curnutt
right? I never i wanted them to, you know? And here's the, is, ah my wife, we were in ministry, we were, you know, we were living a lie, we were in church, we were doing all these things, nobody knew about it, right? no Nobody did, until they did.
00:09:15
Anthony Curnutt
And all of that hiding, all of that stuff, it was just, was remembering the look of her face, right?
00:09:26
Anthony Curnutt
When she discovered that I was lying to her and that I had been few in this pornography and stuff, it haunts me even to this day, right?
00:09:33
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:09:33
Anthony Curnutt
And we're talking, you know, almost 20 years later, 15 years later. And I never want her to experience that again, right? Not only do I not want to experience it, I don't want her to experience that again, right? that That the person that's supposed to love her, the person that's supposed to protect her, the person that's supposed to look after her and guide her spiritually and and is
00:10:11
Ken Freire
To her, it felt like a betrayal.
00:10:14
Anthony Curnutt
And that's exactly I had done is I had betrayed her. And And in man, there was a lot of healing that to take place from that and all that stuff.
00:10:23
Anthony Curnutt
But was very difficult for a while, you even for several years.
00:10:26
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about, you know, let's back cut a little bit. You said that like you knew you always wanted to not have a broken marriage.
00:10:41
Ken Freire
You didn't want your kids to come up in a divorced family. Like that was something ingrained in you, right?
00:10:46
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:10:47
Ken Freire
But yet you still struggled with this sin, sexual sin.
00:10:49
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:10:51
Ken Freire
How did you like compartmentalize those two thoughts in your mind of like, I'm going to go fall into sexual sin and I want to have a healthy, thriving marriage?
00:11:03
Anthony Curnutt
Right. Well, first off, I didn't view it as a sexual sin. Right.
00:11:07
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:11:08
Anthony Curnutt
My my view of sex was so distorted. Right. was so distorted. I mean, I knew it was a sin, right?
00:11:18
Anthony Curnutt
And obviously, it's a sexual sin, but I never like that's not that was not my thought process, right?
00:11:24
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:11:24
Anthony Curnutt
That it was it was a sexual sin. It know, I just knew that I just, I needed that, right?
00:11:35
Anthony Curnutt
And really it it has a lot to do with things that had happened in my past, my need for affirmation, all these different things, my own insecurities were coming out in all of this, right?
00:11:47
Anthony Curnutt
None of this stuff that I knew, I didn't know this at the time, right?
00:11:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:11:51
Anthony Curnutt
This is not something that ah ah that was in my thought process. looking back and going through the healing process, i I realized what had stemmed the addiction in the first place at five years old, right? And we'll leave that to the imaginations. the the things that had happened to me at a young age that would cause you to go into something like that, I didn't even i put the two together, right?
00:12:18
Anthony Curnutt
And growing in that addiction and not understanding that, you know, yes, I understood that I needed to stop. I did not view it as big of a deal as she did. Right. Which is part of the problem. Right. You know.
00:12:32
Anthony Curnutt
Uh, at the time I did, I didn't, you know, okay. So yes, obviously I'm hiding this from her, but I didn't, you know, it's just, it's something you most everybody does. Right.
00:12:42
Anthony Curnutt
I mean, we're dudes. That's what, that's how, that's how we're geared. Right. We're, we're geared towards, you know, physical visual, you know, sexualization.
00:12:51
Ken Freire
stimulation.
Accountability and Overcoming Past Wounds
00:12:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:12:52
Anthony Curnutt
You know, those types of things. That process did not, I mean, it didn't. I didn't go through that process until afterwards, right?
00:13:01
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:13:02
Anthony Curnutt
But it it is what had happened as a result of my addiction for such a long time, right?
00:13:12
Ken Freire
Yeah, you know, a previous episode, I interviewed one of my pastors when I lived in Minnesota. And we talked about the five lies that most you know people believe who are addicted to pornography. And one of them was like the one that you mentioned, like, it's okay, I'm not hurting anyone.
00:13:31
Ken Freire
Right? This is... This is fine. Like, it's just me. I can handle this. I can manage it. But, like, this doesn't really affect it, but it did. Right? Like, it actually does.
00:13:40
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:13:41
Ken Freire
And it's a lie. Right? Because it does. It affects who you are as a person and how you show yourself to your wife, right?
00:13:42
Anthony Curnutt
That's right.
00:13:48
Ken Freire
To people around you. So it's one of those crazy lies that we think about. As the lie came to fruition, and uncovered. And now, all of a sudden, your wife is like, I don't want anything to do with you.
00:14:03
Ken Freire
And you saw the reality of divorce being there and losing, you know, the perfect image, what unquote, perfect, right?
00:14:13
Ken Freire
We knew kids are chaos, right? But like this image of an intact family
00:14:14
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:14:17
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:14:18
Ken Freire
That was a turning point for you to say, I got to go deal with this. And you said something fascinating. You were like, hey, I need to start going through the healing process of, you know, all these things. What some of the healing things that came about that you were like, I need to be healed of this or I need to work through these items to truly see healing in ah addiction?
00:14:35
Anthony Curnutt
right yeah well first off there was this process of rebuilding trust right you know that was that i understood that that was the first thing that needed to happen so we went we began to go through that process we've set lots and lots and lots of boundaries You know, I was 26 at the time when this happened. I'm now 42, even to this day, right? My wife has every password on my phone, every password to every email. every And it's not even that she doesn't trust me anymore. This is the accountability boundaries that I have put in place, right? To to make sure that trust is always intact and keeps me accountable, right?
00:15:18
Anthony Curnutt
The second thing that I did is I found me an accountability partner outside of my wife, right? A man, a godly man that I could turn to, right? That could mentor me, that could push me to be better, right? You could say they were my Paul to me being the Timothy, right?
00:15:38
Anthony Curnutt
they were you know hey listen this is come to light this is what I'm dealing with I do not want to lose my marriage this is the most important thing that I have in my life right outside of Jesus Christ I need to fix this I need help right and so talking those things out things that had happened in the past things that had
00:15:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:15:56
Anthony Curnutt
things I had done, right? All these different things. And that that, you know, a lot of healing took place. Counseling that she and I went through, you know, marriage, you know,
00:16:10
Anthony Curnutt
Basically marriage counseling, right? It wasn't really marriage counseling. Then it was just people in the church that we went to, but it was, it's the same thing, right?
00:16:17
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:16:18
Anthony Curnutt
you know, that, you know, Hey, listen, we're in this spot. We understand that God has brought us together and we want to save this. We need help, right? Uh, she needs help to heal from what I've done.
00:16:30
Anthony Curnutt
I need help to heal from my past and I need help to be accountable to. to her, right? And so the process of this healing, and it was painful, right? Some of the stuff is still painful to talk about at times, right? But it's necessary, right? It is, it's not fun. It's not, you know, anything, but it is necessary for us to do, if we're going to be leaders,
00:16:58
Anthony Curnutt
If we expect the people around us to heal, and we do, then we have to heal also. And if we continue to suppress, if we continue to hide, if we continue to push everything underneath that mental block, you just act like it's not there, nothing ever gets done. And it's like open wound that just festers over time.
00:17:20
Anthony Curnutt
and And that is what had happened to me, you know, and when all of it come out, you I went through this series of, you know, well, I feel guilt. I feel shame. No, it's not my fault. You know, trying to reject the, you know, accountability, you know, all these things. And finally, when I just broke it all down and I was just like, Jesus here, like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. I can't hang on to this. I can't deal with the shame. I can't deal with it. You are the only person, right?
00:17:50
Anthony Curnutt
you're the only way I'm gonna be able to truly heal. And this was a lot through guidance, right? This was a lot through uncovering, this this was a process ah ah of happening, right? Because even after that, it's not like the addiction just was gone, right? It didn't work that way. It's not like the Lord was like, oh, okay, the addiction was gone. No, I had to work through that, right? And I even,
00:18:15
Anthony Curnutt
You know, I even failed again, right? Now it was different because I didn't hide it. I didn't, you know, all those different things. I didn't, you know, all that stuff. I learned from my mistakes, but taking accountability for it was huge,
00:18:29
Anthony Curnutt
In my own mental health, it was huge.
00:18:34
Ken Freire
Yeah. What were, you know, as you think about the relapse, right? You relapsed, you started to take ownership, and you found healing. Talk to me a little bit more about the actual things you had to be healed from.
00:18:46
Anthony Curnutt
Okay.
00:18:47
Ken Freire
Right? Because you were like, hey, I had to be healed from several things to finally be redeemed from it.
00:18:50
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:18:51
Ken Freire
Because you were trying, you were trying to repent, you were trying to do all this, this but there were baggage and stuff that happened to you. So what were some of those things that kind of got uncovered while you were going through the process?
00:19:01
Anthony Curnutt
Right. You know, well, you things that had happened to me as a child, you know, even you know sexual abuse and different things like that that had happened that that I didn't know at a very young age right that I didn't even know that was still affecting me you know when all those things begin to come out when all those things begin to know nobody in my life even knew about them you know, and so when all those things begin to come out and they begin to, you know, having to be healed from those, those things that I didn't even know, again, that I needed to be healed from, had haunt me, they were just
00:19:40
Anthony Curnutt
wounds that were just you know again I go back to the festering right they were just there and they were just they were so painful once once we started to uncover them you know and I was like man you know on top of on top of not understanding what biblical sex looked like right I go back to you know my view of sex was so dirty It was so dirty because of my addiction. I did not understand what biblical sex looked like. I didn't understand that that sex was created by God. It was it was ordained. It was it was meant for something good, you know, all my life. I'd always I'd always heard that, you know, know, you just hear if you grew up in the 80s and 90s, you know, it was just
00:20:25
Anthony Curnutt
Sex is bad, right? You just don't have sex. You just stay away from, well, why? Because we said so, because the Bible says so, right? Sex is bad.
00:20:31
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:20:32
Anthony Curnutt
And so you just stay.
00:20:32
Ken Freire
It was put in the sin category. like Anything outside of sex bed.
00:20:34
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:20:35
Ken Freire
You're like, wait, what?
00:20:36
Anthony Curnutt
Exactly. You know, so 15 years old, I'm like, you guys are a bunch of idiots, right? Sex is phenomenal. I don't understand why, you know, why you guys are telling me this, right?
00:20:45
Anthony Curnutt
So I'm discovering, you know, I started having sex when I was 15 years old. And, and I like that.
Biblical Perspectives on Sex and Healing
00:20:52
Anthony Curnutt
it just permeated from there right you know like my sexual my view of sex because i was never taught biblical sex right i was only taught that sex was bad well that's not true right sex is not bad sex is good it was created by god sex in the confines of marriage is in its perfected state right
00:21:15
Anthony Curnutt
And through that, it is it so glorious. it It is a view of worship, right? Now, this a long time coming, right? to To get to that point, it took a long time to get there because I had to slowly learn, okay, so what I did was wrong, right? My addiction is wrong, but what God has created is not wrong.
00:21:41
Anthony Curnutt
Right. I thought they were both the same thing. So, you know, I was just using my wife just to get off. I mean, it was for me, it was no different than than pornography. It was no different than my addiction. It was just it was just me self gratifying myself. Right. And you want to talk about a a painful experience when I come to the realization. That that is what I was doing.
00:21:41
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:22:44
Anthony Curnutt
We're men, we take responsibility for our own actions. That's a man does. And so to have to sit down and be like, man, you don't have to come in and have that conversation with your wife, I'm sorry. I didn't, you know, and this is after, this is years after, even after that, right? And I'm going, man, I have failed yet again, just in a different way, right?
00:23:09
Anthony Curnutt
And so healing from all of this stuff, it was most definitely a process. and was most definitely, it was a, you know, not a fun process.
00:23:20
Anthony Curnutt
And you just continually learn, right? And here's the thing.
00:23:25
Anthony Curnutt
I'm sorry. the society in which we live, pornography is so viewed as normal, right?
00:23:33
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:23:34
Anthony Curnutt
It is, it is everywhere. It's in every movie you see. It's in every, you know, you walk into grocery store and it may not be full on pornography, but yoga pants and everything else that makes a man's mind just run wild, right? This is something that even today, and we're talking, you know, 15 years ago, this is something even today that I have to keep under the blood consistently.
00:23:55
Anthony Curnutt
This is my cross that I have to bear every day. I have to make a conscious decision. This will not be the day that I fail.
00:24:06
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:24:06
Anthony Curnutt
I will not do this again because I love Jesus, because I love my wife. And that is an intentional thing that we have to do.
00:24:14
Ken Freire
Yeah. And that's huge, man. Because i I want to talk about that here a little bit more because what I have found many times people are like, oh, I've been healed. Like it's of those things we feel like, oh, once I'm healed, I'm done.
00:24:25
Ken Freire
I can move on to something.
00:24:25
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:24:26
Ken Freire
But like you said, number one, the healing process took a while, right? It took years. And even as you've dealt with the initial blow of it, Right? Then it's like, oh my gosh, I found that I was just using my wife to get off.
00:24:39
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:24:39
Ken Freire
And then it's like, later on, you're like, man, I'm not being a good enough husband. And I get it. I've been there too, man, where I felt like, gosh, God, I'm just... I know I should be better and I can't do this.
00:24:50
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:24:51
Ken Freire
But we thank the grace of God that he continually sanctifies us and showing us how we could be better.
00:24:54
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:24:56
Ken Freire
Right? But it's still an ongoing battle. So, talk to us about guys who feel like they're stuck and they're struggling right now and they're like, man, I've been trying so much to put this under the blood of Jesus, but it's been really difficult and I just keep falling and I'm in the cycle of shame and sin. How do I get out of it? And and and what can I start doing to really see victory?
00:25:21
Anthony Curnutt
right? That's that's the most important question, right? and let me let me tell you something. One of the most important things that you could do is surround yourself with godly men, right? There are things I have to be careful the way I say it because sometimes it comes out wrong.
00:25:38
Anthony Curnutt
There are things that other men can relate better with you than your wife can, right? Now I'm not talking about hiding, right?
00:25:46
Anthony Curnutt
I'm not talking about hiding things from your wife or anything like that. That's not, that's not what I'm talking about, but men understand the struggle, right? And so to surround yourself with godly men, now that word is important. Godly men, you need spiritual leaders in your life, right? You're called to be a spiritual leader, you need a spiritual leader. Every football player needs a coach, right? You Patrick Mahomes and all these people, they have quarterback coaches, right? They don't play the game, they teach them to be better.
00:26:10
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:26:18
Anthony Curnutt
We as men, we need people in our, we need Paul's in our life, right? We need, we need people in our life that we can come to and be like, Hey, I am struggling or Hey, when they see us struggling and we're not saying anything, they come over and kick us in the seat of the pants, right? Hey, you're not on the right path.
00:26:38
Anthony Curnutt
And I'm telling you right now, if you continue going down this path, it it is a path of death. You've got to turn around from this, right? So the people that we surround ourselves is huge. It is a tool in our arsenal that God has given us intentionally, right? He has intentionally surrounded us with other people to help us go long. I heard a guy one time say, if you want to go somewhere fast, you go by yourself. If you want to go far, you take people with you.
00:27:03
Anthony Curnutt
And that's true even in our spirituality. You know, if you want to grow as a spiritual leader, you have to surround yourself with people who will push you, who will help you, who are going to spiritually guide you in the right direction. That is part of one of the most ah ah important things that you could do, right? Two, you have to break down walls, right? Healing, God can only heal what you allow him to heal.
00:27:31
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:27:31
Anthony Curnutt
Okay, for example, you know, all the things that had happened in my past, I didn't even realize that they were affecting me. I had never prayed for them. I had never, you know, I mean, obviously I had remembered them, you know, but I i just acted like they didn't exist, right? I built these walls up around them that that that kept everybody, including God out.
00:27:55
Anthony Curnutt
And it wasn't until I realized that I had those walls and I had to give this to Jesus. I had to let those walls down. That vulnerability is so difficult. It sucks. It's hard. It's scary. You don't really know. And so you have to get to a place where you're like, Jesus?
00:28:23
Anthony Curnutt
I trust you with this, right?
00:28:25
Anthony Curnutt
Cause that's really what it boils down to. I trust you with this. I heard a guy, I was just talking to a guy the other day. I've been mentoring and stuff. and He's like, I, I trust God.
00:28:36
Anthony Curnutt
He's like, but in this area, I kind of want to hang onto. I'm like, so you're telling me you don't trust him in that area. You know, he's why do you have to say it like that?
00:28:44
Ken Freire
yeah
00:28:46
Anthony Curnutt
I'm like, because that's, that's what that is.
00:28:47
Ken Freire
Yeah. So
00:28:48
Anthony Curnutt
You know, I'm not, I'm not going to be around the bush, but it's, it's true. You know, we're like, okay, God, I want you to, to, you know, I want to be a good leader. I want to do all this. You can just have rain on my life, except for this.
00:28:59
Anthony Curnutt
I don't keep these walls up. I want to, you know, we're just going to act like this doesn't exist. And God's like, are you sure? I mean, he's he's a gentleman, right? He's not going to force you to do it. But he highly encourages you to do it, right? You know, and and until we let him in. There cannot be true healing.
00:29:22
Anthony Curnutt
right, until we let those walls down and be like, hey, and don't get wrong, this not an overnight process. I only know this because of 15 years of failing to do so, right, of learning, you know, okay, okay, yes, fine, I'll let these walls down, you can have it, just leave me, you know what I mean? I'm tired of dealing with it. And it is through that process that I have learned that every one of us, every one of us, every single one of us is wounded in some form or fashion, right? Every one of us experience wounds because we live in a broken world, right? We are broken people married to broken people in a broken world, right? Every one of us come with baggage into our marriage. Every one of us come with wounds. None of us gets out of this world unscathed. That's not the way it works.
00:30:15
Anthony Curnutt
All wounds operate the same, right? They may look different. Some wounds are bigger than others, right? Some ah ah experiences are worse than others, but the healing process is the same. Our trust in Jesus, our trust in Jesus, and this is crucial, our trust in Jesus has to overcome the fear of us being vulnerable to ourselves.
00:30:41
Anthony Curnutt
Right. It has to be.
00:30:41
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:30:43
Ken Freire
100%, man.
00:30:43
Anthony Curnutt
And yeah.
00:30:45
Ken Freire
And let me just... Let me just add on to that real quick because I think what's really important when people hear trust in Jesus, right? I think what they're afraid of is like, well, if I trust Jesus with this, will he reject me?
00:30:59
Ken Freire
Will he not accept me for this thing?
00:30:59
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:31:03
Ken Freire
And the the truth is that, like, he died for you when you were your worst before this even happened.
00:31:07
Anthony Curnutt
That's right.
00:31:09
Ken Freire
Like, that's when he died. So he's like... He and already knows that you have this. He wants you to bring it to him so that he can say, show you how he's already accepted you.
00:31:17
Anthony Curnutt
That's right.
00:31:17
Ken Freire
regardless of this sin or regardless of the wound that you have. And so for those people who are going through that, I just want to remind them, like, listen, God knows. And you and I both have a similar story of abuse.
00:31:27
Anthony Curnutt
That's right.
00:31:29
Ken Freire
And I remember having to take those walls down and bringing them to the feet of Jesus and be like, God, I'm afraid you're going to reject me. I'm afraid that people are going to reject me and not accept me for who I am.
00:31:38
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:31:41
Ken Freire
I need your help.
00:31:43
Ken Freire
will you please help me?" And just like, I remember bawling. Like, it was like that nasty bawling, like just not, you know?
00:31:46
Anthony Curnutt
Oh, I did too. Yes. Yes. One hundred percent.
00:31:49
Ken Freire
We're just giving it to Jesus. It was immensely helpful.
00:31:52
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah. Well, in the reason why we do that is because we project our insecurities that are brought onto us from other people onto the Lord.
00:32:02
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:02
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:32:02
Anthony Curnutt
So if we've experienced rejection from other people, We automatically put that on God every single time, right?
00:32:02
Ken Freire
Yep.
00:32:09
Ken Freire
Yep.
00:32:10
Anthony Curnutt
But He's not human, right? He's God. He loves us. While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, right?
00:32:17
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:18
Anthony Curnutt
He knew. He knew why He was hanging on the cross that, you know, 2,000 years later, you were going to screw up, right? He knew that.
00:32:27
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:28
Anthony Curnutt
He already did, right? And so having to
00:32:30
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:33
Anthony Curnutt
remove your and really what it is is is we end up with these insecurities right and so because we are insecure in of ourselves we we don't want to risk the chance of of getting hurt right because we've been hurt by other people because we have trust issues because we have all these things and we project those on onto god and god's like
00:32:54
Anthony Curnutt
I'm not, I'm not those people, right?
00:32:57
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:57
Anthony Curnutt
I'm not. I promise you can trust me with it. But the thing is, is that we have to willingly give it to him. Because if we don't, right, sin is a hard issue,
00:33:10
Anthony Curnutt
So if we don't give it to him, our hearts never really change. He could force us to give it over, but your heart doesn't change, right? But when we willingly give ourselves over, we are willingly giving our heart over to Jesus also.
00:33:28
Anthony Curnutt
you're giving all of you over. And in that process, Jesus can heal our hearts, right? I heard a quote the other day, I wish I could remember who said it, and I'm paraphrasing, but someone who's forced to do something is still the same mind, right?
00:33:45
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:33:46
Anthony Curnutt
is this, if you're forced to do something, your mind doesn't change about the way that you wanted to do it, right? If I wanted, if I wanted a steak for dinner, that's what I wanted, and you gave me fried chicken, ah ah you know, forced me to eat fried chicken, I still wanted that steak, right?
00:34:02
Anthony Curnutt
And that's just a, that's just a huge
00:34:02
Ken Freire
You're still going to be thinking about the steak. Yeah.
00:34:04
Anthony Curnutt
I'm still going to be thinking about this day. That's right. And that's just a humorous way of putting it. But, but it's true. Right. And so Jesus wants us to be holy healed. Right.
00:34:13
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:14
Anthony Curnutt
yeah. And when I say holy, that's not H-O-L-L-Y that's W-H-O-L-E-Y. Right. Holy. He wants all of us that our whole being healed. Right.
00:34:24
Anthony Curnutt
Our mind, our hearts, our spirit, our beings. Right. He wants, he wants true healing and only he can offer that. Right.
00:34:32
Ken Freire
Yeah. I love that, man, that just the way you explained it, like, hey, he wants all of us to be healed. And he could force it, but no one ever changes their mind or heart by being forced.
00:34:43
Ken Freire
Right?
00:34:43
Anthony Curnutt
No, no, I don't.
00:34:44
Ken Freire
They need to be wooed. And love how God's grace wooes us.
00:34:47
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:34:48
Ken Freire
Right? Or he's like, hey, I'm going to show you how amazing, how loving, how beautiful, and how kindness.
00:34:49
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:34:53
Ken Freire
Like, I love how Romans... I think Romans 2 says it, where it's his kindness that brings us to repentance. right? It's not his judgment. It's not his wrath. It's not the fear.
00:35:03
Ken Freire
It's his kindness. It's like we know that God is going to be holy and just, but his kindness and patience to us, that when we deserve wrath, he actually gave us love.
00:35:08
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:35:14
Ken Freire
That's what brings us to repentance, man.
00:35:14
Anthony Curnutt
Right. Amen.
00:35:16
Ken Freire
And I love that, dude. As we wrap up, Anthony, I know that there are A lot of people who are listening to this and they might be thinking to themselves like, man, Anthony's just dropping truth bombs left and right, right? And just reminding us that like, it is a process. It is something that takes time. But your story has been beautiful in the sense that, man, you didn't get divorced, right? You still have a healthy marriage, you have healthy kids, now you're helping men.
00:35:43
Ken Freire
you know, with overcoming this addiction and at the same time just becoming masculine men, living out within their God-given design and calling. So tell us a little bit more as we wrap up of what do you do now and how are you helping them?
Mission of Real Men Ministries
00:35:57
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah, so i I still surround myself with godly men, right? I heard somebody say the other day, I said the other day, it's been a while back now, but if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room, right?
00:36:08
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:36:09
Anthony Curnutt
Spiritually is the same way. You know, every one of us, and I preach this all the time on the podcast, it's in the book, it's in everything. Everybody needs three people in their lives.
00:36:22
Anthony Curnutt
And this is crucial to our Every one of us needs a Paul, right? We need a spiritual leader. We need somebody who's going to kick us in the seat of the pants, who's going to guide us, who's going to spiritually set us on that path, right? Every one of us need a Timothy, somebody that we are pouring into, somebody that keeps us accountable, right? We need to be in good standing because we need to help this person being good standing, right?
00:36:47
Anthony Curnutt
I wanna be the best that I can be for this person that I'm bringing up, right? Because the goal is that the Timothy will surpass you, right? That he becomes somebody's Paul.
00:36:54
Ken Freire
Yep.
00:36:57
Anthony Curnutt
And then you need a Barnabas, right? You need somebody who is a true friend, who's not afraid to speak truth to you. He's not you somebody that comes alongside you, that is willing to fight with you, that is gonna go and minister with you, that you all these people. And obviously those positions change over time. Again, hopefully your Timothy becomes your somebody else's Paul someday, right? And they outgrow you. Hopefully you outgrow your Paul, they have to get a new one. Those positions change.
00:37:22
Anthony Curnutt
but we should consistently be seeking those positions out. We should always have a spiritual leader. We should always have somebody we're poured into. We should always have a friend, men's group, something that that people that you can go to that is judgment-free and be like, hey, guys, I need you right now.
00:37:30
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:37:39
Anthony Curnutt
I just need somebody in my corner. I just need somebody to be praying. And to have those people, is crucial to our success. You will never... Let me put it this way.
00:37:49
Anthony Curnutt
Satan's greatest tool. right? We know that he's a liar. The greatest thing that he's ever deceived us of is to think that we're alone in a fight, right?
00:38:00
Ken Freire
Yeah, 100%.
00:38:01
Anthony Curnutt
And that's, yeah, and he does it to all of us, right? But that's not, it's not true. We are not alone in a fight. We have, God has surrounded us with people, right?
00:38:11
Anthony Curnutt
He has surrounded us with people to lift us up. You know, he's given us pastors, he's given us mentors, he's given us friends, he's given us, you know, younger people for us to pour into. And to do that, be in your word, right? It is another thing that be a student of the word, right? And whatever I say, a student of the word, I have a friend of mine. He's like a PhD guy, right? You know, and he, he reads a chapter of the Old Testament chapter, of New Testament chapter of Proverbs and chapter of Psalms every day, right? I don't, I don't work that way, right?
00:38:46
Anthony Curnutt
I'm a community college dropout from Southeast Missouri, right? the reason why I'm saying this is because it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality, right? I'll read three or four verses and I will dissect them. i I have become a student of the word. It may take me, you know,
00:39:05
Anthony Curnutt
six times as long to go through the bible is what it him but it doesn't matter right i am consistently striving to grow closer to jesus right to be better tomorrow than i was today that's that should always be on our minds right and the only way you're gonna do that is to be the student of the word, right? So, and the reason why I say it that way, because a lot of times whenever I say, you know, get in your word, people think about, oh, well, I need to read a chapter a day, or I need, you know, read the Bible in a year, or I need, no, that's not it.
00:39:39
Anthony Curnutt
It's all about yeah what is best for you. You know, what can you do? If you can read a chapter a day and you, that's, that's how you're doing your best to get into work, then that's fine.
00:39:51
Anthony Curnutt
Right. But I don't, I also don't want people to be overwhelmed, men to be overwhelmed and be like, I can't, that's, I'll never retain all of that.
00:39:57
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:39:58
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:39:58
Ken Freire
They're like, I'm already working 10 hours a day, got a family, and you want me to read for three hours the word?
00:40:01
Anthony Curnutt
Exactly.
00:40:04
Ken Freire
Like, what? Am I waking up at 4? Like, what am I doing here, you know?
00:40:06
Anthony Curnutt
Exactly, exactly.
00:40:08
Anthony Curnutt
Just just make it part of your day and and make it started with your day, right?
00:40:13
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:40:13
Anthony Curnutt
That is crucial because it's like ah ah getting a song stuck in your head, right? If you're on your way to work or whatever, you know, you're playing radio and you get the song stuck in your head.
00:40:21
Anthony Curnutt
If you start your morning off with it, right? You can maul on it and chew on it all day. And sometimes I've had the greatest revelations where I've read a verse and I thought, I have no idea what the heck I just wrote read, right?
00:40:35
Anthony Curnutt
I have no idea what's going on here and I just think about it all day and then all of a sudden it was like boom I Got it, right?
00:40:36
Ken Freire
It hits you.
00:40:43
Anthony Curnutt
I got it, you know, and it was like two verses
00:40:44
Ken Freire
Yeah. And that's where found for me healing, going back to the healing process, right? When I had the word in me, it like just came alive and it started to talk to me when all these insecurities and all these pains started to come about, man.
00:40:59
Ken Freire
So I love that you were talking about that, like being a student of the word.
00:41:02
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:41:03
Ken Freire
Anthony, as as we wrap up here, People can tell you're passionate, you're excited about this, you know, topic and stuff like that. What's the best way to reach out to you to get more insight and from you?
00:41:15
Anthony Curnutt
Yeah, man, you know, we have we have so much, right? So obviously our website framework or website is Roman ministries.us.
00:41:26
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:41:27
Anthony Curnutt
I have a book out called Framework for Biblical Masculinity. You can there's a link on on the website or you can go to Amazon. You just type in the book or my name. have a Facebook group, we have a private Facebook group called Roman Ministries Becoming a Spiritual Leader, where we are consistently trying to disciple men, becoming godly men, right? You can become a part of that. You can just hit me up on Facebook, Roman Ministries.
00:41:50
Anthony Curnutt
you know, you just, just holler at us, you know, we're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, we're on, you know, X, I always want to call it Twitter, X, you know, we're on, we're on all those things, right? You can reach out to us anywhere. And, uh, I would love to hear from, you if you have any questions, if you have, if, if any, of of anybody needs any guidance, right? We're all in the same fight. We're all trying to become the leaders. God has called us to be.
00:42:13
Anthony Curnutt
become the husbands, the fathers God has called us to be, to encourage the people around us. And and that is our mission as Roman Ministries, is to help men become those spiritual leaders that God has called them to be.
00:42:26
Ken Freire
I love it, man. And Anthony, thank you so much for pouring into men, right? Because not a lot of people want to do that. They just forget or or they're just too scared and you decided to step into the chaos, the fear and said, no, no, I'm going to do this.
00:42:39
Ken Freire
I'm going to help men deal with their struggles and become real men, right? Real men who want to love God and love the people around them.
00:42:44
Anthony Curnutt
Right.
00:42:48
Ken Freire
So, thank you, man. It's always great to meet a brother in arms who's trying to fight the same fight with, you know? It's kind of like you were saying. Like, sometimes we can could feel feel alone. It's like, no, no. The more we have men around us fighting that fight, the better we we are.
00:43:02
Anthony Curnutt
That's exactly right.
00:43:03
Ken Freire
So, thank you, man. and Thank you. You're doing that. And I can't wait till one day for us to connect, man, ah in person and have some fun.
00:43:09
Anthony Curnutt
Yes.
00:43:11
Ken Freire
But for those of you, again, reach out to him, Real Men's Ministries. I'll put all that in the show notes all of you who are listening, and be encouraged by what Anthony's been talking about. The reality that, like, you may feel like your marriage is is in shambles.
00:43:25
Ken Freire
You may feel like you're hiding this sin. There may be wounds in your past. Like, none of those things are too far from God to redeem. So if you're listening to this, reach out to Anthony, reach out to me, who reach out to whoever, and start working through the healing process because I guarantee you God can redeem you and God can transform everything. And you can look at this on the other side of the fence and be like, wow, I almost lost it.
00:43:53
Ken Freire
And i i I knew what God meant for evil... Well, not God meant for evil, what man meant for evil, God made for good.
00:44:00
Anthony Curnutt
that's
00:44:00
Ken Freire
that's the beauty of what we're talking about here. So, Anthony, thank you again so much for your time here. And for those of you who are listening, I'll see you back next week. And until then, remember to kill shame, stand strong, and be on mission.
00:44:14
Ken Freire
Hope you guys have a great day and God bless.