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The Father Heart of God: Restoring Masculinity and Purpose with Jonathan Lewis
181 Plays1 year ago
Have you ever carried a father wound that shaped how you see yourself, God, or the world around you?
In this raw and powerful episode of the Shame(less) Podcast, Ken Freire sits down with Jonathan Lewis, founder of Fathers for Fathers, to unpack how trauma, addiction, and anger often stem from deep places of brokenness and how the Father's heart of God brings real healing.
Jonathan shares his own journey: from trying to save his drowning father as a teen… to two decades of fog, despondency, addiction, and anger… to encountering Jesus in his 30s and finding a redemptive calling to help men break free.
If you’ve ever felt like your past disqualifies you or if you're tired of holding it together alone, this episode might just be the beginning of something new.
💡 What You’ll Learn:
- Why fatherlessness impacts men more spiritually than we realize
- How trauma shows up as despondency, anger, addiction, and isolation
- The number one lie men believe about masculinity and the truth Scripture reveals
- Why surrendering to the Father is the hardest and most masculine thing a man can do
- How Fathers for Fathers is helping churches disciple broken men
- The power of fasting, shared hardship, and vulnerability in male community
- What it looks like to trust God with the things you fear most: your kids, your legacy, your wounds
📌 Notable Quotes:
“We try to itch a spiritual wound with a broken stump and it doesn’t work. Only the Father can reach it.” — Jonathan Lewis“Anger in men is often born out of a deep injustice we know we can’t fix. That’s why we need a Savior.” — Ken Freire
“Hell wasn’t created for you but rebellion leads us there. The gospel gives us a way out.” — Jonathan Lewis
⏱️ Timestamps:
0:00 – The weight of fatherlessness
3:00 – Jonathan’s story: losing his dad and blaming himself
7:00 – How trauma and guilt shaped his manhood
10:00 – The fog of despondency and false identity
14:00 – Anger, masculinity, and what’s really going on under the surface
21:00 – The question every man must answer: Who is Jesus?
26:00 – Why surrender is the bravest act a man can make
33:00 – What Fathers for Fathers actually does and how churches can join
37:00 – Wilderness hikes, baptisms, and why shared pain brings freedom
42:00 – Father’s Day challenge: fast, pray, walk, and step up
📣 Call to Action:
Feeling the weight of fatherlessness, addiction, or disconnection from your purpose?
Go to www.fathersforfathers.org to learn more, join a hike, or bring a men's ministry to your church.
📲 Text Jonathan directly. His number is listed on all socials, and yes, he actually replies.
Want more content like this?
🔔 Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with a man who needs to hear it.
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Transcript
Intro
The Impact of Fatherlessness and Embracing God's Love
00:00:29
Ken Freire
Have you ever felt the weight of fatherlessness, not just in your life, but in your soul? Have you ever seen the devastation of fatherlessness around your society or community?
00:00:43
Ken Freire
Do you struggle with shame, addiction, or a sense of disconnection from your role as a man, husband, or father? And what if the key to healing isn't found in striving harder, but embracing the father heart of Today, we're joined by Jonathan Lewis, founder of Fathers for Fathers.
00:01:03
Ken Freire
Jonathan's journey from personal loss to founding a ministry that empowers men is a testament to the transformative power of God's love. So stay tuned as we delve into his story and discover how embracing our identity as sons can lead to true freedom.
00:01:18
Ken Freire
and purpose.
Breaking Cycles of Abuse and High Expectations
00:01:20
Ken Freire
Jonathan, thanks for joining us today, man. I'm so glad for you to be here. I know for some people who do not know you, tell us where do you currently live and a little bit of your story. Like what was it about your life background that led you to start Fathers for Fathers?
00:01:36
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, thanks, Ken. Ken. it's It's good to be here. And I really appreciated getting to know you, obviously, outside of our combined hearts for men.
00:01:48
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:01:48
Jonathan Lewis
And yeah, Fathers for Fathers, ah ah gosh, it was birthed birthed 34 years ago.
00:01:57
Jonathan Lewis
I just didn't know it 34 years ago. So, I had a dad who grew up with a very abusive father. He was a World War II vet.
00:02:07
Jonathan Lewis
He fought in North Africa, Italy, Europe, with the British under Montgomery, like the British prima donna to match Patton for all the American listeners.
00:02:19
Ken Freire
Hehe
00:02:22
Jonathan Lewis
he came back pretty damaged. like a lot of the vets back then coped with alcohol, which then led to a lot of, uh, anger, the home and, a lot of destructive behavior that my dad grew up with.
Coping with Loss and Finding Purpose
00:02:34
Jonathan Lewis
So my dad never drank, swore he would never drank and he didn't drink, but he still, uh, carried a lot of that over. His goal was to be a cycle breaker. And I would, I would definitely give him a passing grade.
00:02:44
Jonathan Lewis
but he still had some issues and, and then, uh, I grew up really trying to live up to his expectations. You know, he was notorious for celebrating my successes by reminding me that second was first in a long line of losers.
00:03:02
Jonathan Lewis
And if you weren't first, you weren't anything.
00:03:02
Ken Freire
Mm-hmm.
00:03:05
Jonathan Lewis
And I knew that, I know now that that was really what he received both from his dad, but also even the culture of that day. lot of pressure on um,
00:03:18
Jonathan Lewis
And then in a tragic accident, was actually the week after Father's Day. My mom, my youngest sister and and dad and I were out in Nova Scotia where I grew up.
00:03:31
Jonathan Lewis
By then, days are getting warm. The ocean's still frigidly cold, but not for Nova Scotians. And so we were out scuba diving and spearfishing flounder. And my mom had decided not to do a second dive, but I went out skin diving with my dad and And we got into trouble and I ended up dragging my dad to the beach, but was not successful in saving him.
00:03:55
Jonathan Lewis
And so I was immediately faced with fatherlessness just after my 15th birthday, but also the guilt and the shame and the burden of knowing that it was my fault or certainly believing that it was my fault that my dad drowned and that I was not able to save him.
00:04:16
Jonathan Lewis
And then of course the echoing vestiges of, well, if you're not successful, you're a failure. And so I went into my latter teen years very despondent, you know, without any kind of sense of direction healthy male role model in my life. And then I was thrust into into adulthood where I was now expected to be a husband, a leader.
00:04:42
Jonathan Lewis
And I was absolutely ill-equipped, unequipped to do any of those things.
00:04:50
Jonathan Lewis
You know, it's funny, I was thinking about our chat today, Ken, and I thought with Fathers for Fathers, I'm talking to a lot of guys that struggle with anger.
00:04:58
Ken Freire
yeah
00:04:59
Jonathan Lewis
And I can't pinpoint why or where it's coming from. And I'm sure we'll unpack that little bit today. But fast forward 34 years later, I'm 49 years old now, which
00:05:10
Jonathan Lewis
other than looking in a mirror, I don't feel like I'm 49. And then I look in a mirror and I'm like, who is that guy looking come me? But, thankfully I can still keep up with all these young bucks, uh, you know, with fathers for fathers and a lot of the ministry we do and like the hiking and climbing and stuff. But, I've had a lot of time to, to mature.
The Role of Vision and Purpose in Overcoming Struggles
00:05:30
Jonathan Lewis
I've had a lot of mistakes, a lot of failures, divorce, uh, struggles in fatherhood and parenting. and, and really had time to look back and say, oh that's why was angry.
00:05:44
Jonathan Lewis
That's why i was was struggling with despondency and lack of purpose and a purpose and a clear direction. And I didn't get saved or or come to know Jesus and who he was and what he did on the cross, really, internalize and understand it until was about 32, 33 years So went almost in this fog of life with no clear sense of purpose, hope, or vision. And the the book of Habakkuk, which is book in the Old Testament, a small prophet, he says, where there's no vision, the people will perish. And I think with men, we need vision and we need purpose. And until we know what our purpose is and we have a clear vision, we can engage in a lot of self-destructive behavior. And you and I have talked about that, whether it's pornography or
00:06:34
Jonathan Lewis
any kind of addiction, alcohol, drugs, you know, even being a playboy of itself is destructive behavior where you're really putting on a mask or as John Eldridge calls it, you you know, it's the poser. that's really where Fathers for Fathers was birthed, was recognizing the carnage of my own pilgrimage trying to understand this.
00:06:57
Jonathan Lewis
And then becoming very clear that there is a clear vision and purpose for my life. And just seeing how it's transformed my life. Like the Bible also says in Romans 12 too, be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
00:07:13
Jonathan Lewis
And I started to realize like my whole worldview, my mind, my spiritual and mental health was being rejuvenated as I got clear on what my actual purpose is.
00:07:24
Jonathan Lewis
And it's not to just engage in repetitive, self-destructive behavior and this vortex of anger and frustration that I can't pinpoint.
Healing from Trauma and Embracing Spiritual Identity
00:07:34
Ken Freire
Okay, so once you started to figure out your purpose, I think something that I want to address that you hit on really the beginning was that there was this fog that you had to lift first.
00:07:38
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:07:42
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:07:47
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:07:47
Ken Freire
And I'm curious for you, how did that fog affect you? I mean, I'm just trying to sit here and envision, and and forgive me if I paint the picture too grim, but you tried really hard to save your dad.
00:07:59
Ken Freire
And I'm sure that the the the emotions, adrenaline rush, the chaos of that moment of you're like, I'm doing everything I can and I couldn't do it.
00:07:59
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:08:08
Ken Freire
And now you have to carry that weight. How did that affect you during that season?
00:08:13
Ken Freire
And then how did that affect your relationship with God?
00:08:16
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah. So let me speak to the guys who've had trauma. You could be military or just a ah ah guy who maybe you up in a gang in one of the inner cities or whatever, but the trauma is there.
00:08:28
Jonathan Lewis
And it just creates this despondency.
00:08:28
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:08:31
Jonathan Lewis
Like it's almost like it's surreal and it didn't happen to you. And it was like a dream, but it did happen to you. And it literally shapes every facet of your life and you don't want it to, it almost makes you angry that it is shaping every facet of your life. Like you, you're angry at the fact that you're held hostage by it. And yet, it's there, it's, it's, it's what creates all the fog and despondency. And so for me, I mean, the first thing I've learned, cause I've gone through,
00:09:01
Jonathan Lewis
EMDR and trauma therapy, unfortunately much later in life, not until my early 30s. But what I discovered was that the body keeps a score there's all kinds of literature on that.
00:09:12
Jonathan Lewis
But part of the way the body keeps a score is it blocks out the trauma. So we actually aren't even keenly aware of just how bad it was and how much we've been hijacked by it, which then allows us to create agreements with ourselves where it's like, no, that's not going to govern me or I'm never going to be in that position again or I'll never trust or I'll never allow a woman or i i I'll never be submitted to creates a lot of narcissistic behavior in men. you call it toxic masculinity. I don't believe there's toxic masculinity. I think there's just broken people, whether it's a man or a woman.
00:09:43
Jonathan Lewis
And we got to get to the root of what is it. And so for me, that fog, that despondency was... I couldn't change what had happened.
00:09:54
Jonathan Lewis
I was there. I dragged my dad to the beach. I should have drowned with him. My mom thought we were both gone until I came dragging my dad up out of the ocean.
00:10:07
Jonathan Lewis
And the first two or three years after that, was just in shock. You know, my mom was a stay at home mom. My dad was a very successful business guy with three businesses, not without its struggles.
00:10:23
Jonathan Lewis
He was definitely a workaholic. You know, his his value in his world was his ability to provide for us economically. You know, he grew up in a generation where social and spiritual Value adds as a father weren't as big a priority. So he thought he was loving us by providing for us. And And so, you know, basically went out of my late teens where I was couch surfing. My mom had remarried. I didn't feel like I belonged at home.
00:10:54
Jonathan Lewis
I was actually told that I didn't belong there. And I didn't know where I belonged. to I would even argue today at 49, there's still an element of that for me, where in this world, I feel like I don't belong. I don't feel like I belong in America or Canada. have wanderlust.
00:11:10
Jonathan Lewis
I have wanderlust.
00:11:10
Ken Freire
Well, definitely not Canada. Yeah.
00:11:12
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, I always want to travel. what I can say is I definitely know my identity.
00:11:18
Jonathan Lewis
Romans 8, Paul ah points us to that. Galatians points us to it. I know my father. like I actually have seen that I've actually been given a great gift by not having an earthly father who's flawed getting in the way of a perfect heavenly father.
00:11:34
Jonathan Lewis
So the fog lifted. When again, as the Bible says in Ezekiel, the scales were lifted from my eyes. I actually saw that I was flawed, that ah I was always going to in my flesh, in my own strength, try and fix myself and I was never going to be able to fix myself. So I was always going to be frustrated and angry and that loop of frustration would just continue.
00:12:04
Jonathan Lewis
And I think as you get older, it gets more and more self-destructive because you become despondent and you almost give up. And I see it in men my age in their late 40s, early 50s who they've literally spent the better part of their adult decades in agreement with whatever it is that has them in their brokenness. And they don't even know it anymore.
00:12:28
Jonathan Lewis
Like it's like, well, this is the only way. And those guys. It's not the only way. is a better way, but it takes a lot of work and discipline and most importantly, humility.
00:12:43
Jonathan Lewis
And so yeah, the fog for me went on all through my 20s
Transformational Power of Accepting God's Love
00:12:48
Jonathan Lewis
and the carnage that it left in its wake in my life and those that I loved was not good.
00:12:58
Jonathan Lewis
And and it really kind like King David came to a head for me in my early 30s with divorce and a spouse who chose to be in another relationship.
00:13:09
Jonathan Lewis
And I really can't blame her. You was angry and I didn't know how to deal with it. And I wasn't know physically abusive or anything, but I was just angry. Like I wasn't I wasn't a fun person to be around, you know. And, you know, it's funny, my wife, Sarah, we've been together now for 14 years and and yesterday we had ah bit of a day off here and just spent some time together. And this morning, you know, she was getting me a coffee. So I was getting ready to start my work day. And she said yesterday was so much fun.
00:13:38
Jonathan Lewis
You're so much fun. And like, I don't think she realized the the absolute blessing that she was pouring into me as my spouse saying that to me because the opposite of you're fun and I enjoyed my day with you is you're angry and you need to get that sorted out from a spouse.
00:13:58
Ken Freire
Yeah. And I'm sure that feeling of like, I've been there where I was always angry. And you're like, I don't want to be angry, but this is the only emotion I know how to cope with life.
00:14:10
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, it's really born out of a frustration.
00:14:12
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:13
Jonathan Lewis
that it's like an itch you can't reach and you know it's rooted in a deep pain.
00:14:19
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:14:21
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:14:21
Ken Freire
Yeah, and that's where I found like, you know, from biblical counseling things that I had training on that like many times anger for men comes from the injustice that they know they can't solve.
00:14:32
Jonathan Lewis
That's right.
00:14:32
Ken Freire
And we need a savior, right?
00:14:33
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:14:33
Ken Freire
This is why Jesus came. It's just like we see this injustice and we see this emotion that God has given us, anger, but we don't know how to rightly articulate it or rightly handle it.
00:14:43
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, I call it a spiritual itch that only God can scratch.
00:14:45
Ken Freire
So it gets sinful.
00:14:49
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:14:51
Jonathan Lewis
Sarah and I, we rescue dogs. If you had told me I was gonna rescue dogs years ago, it have been, like my parents bred and showed purebreds, Shetlands.
00:14:53
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:15:01
Jonathan Lewis
So the fact that now we have mongrels, and they're not just mongrels, but we've had two, three-leggers in a row from Thailand. And we have this little guy, Balinga, that we adore.
00:15:12
Jonathan Lewis
I've never, we've never in my entire life, my parents or Sarah and I, we've never let an animal, a dog up on the furniture, the couch, you know, recall and discipline has always been a big thing.
00:15:24
Jonathan Lewis
This little guy's got us wrapped. I mean, he literally crawls in between us in bed. don't know how I ever let this happen, but because he's got three legs, poor little guy, whenever he's itchy on his left side, he can't scratch it his little stump, just wiggles and he's turning his head.
00:15:40
Jonathan Lewis
And it's funny when I look at him, I think, OK, that's a physical scratch. He can't itch that we we get to itch for him and he loves us for it. And it's like he does a little stump thing and and then we we reach in and scratch where where he wants us to.
00:15:54
Jonathan Lewis
I believe that men have a spiritual itch from injury, wounds, brokenness that we try so desperately with our broken little stump to itch our whole lives, which then leads to anger, frustration and bitterness because we can never quite get it. We don't even know where where to itch.
00:16:14
Jonathan Lewis
And then when we finally just give up and surrender to God, he just reaches down and itches it.
00:16:19
Ken Freire
you
00:16:22
Jonathan Lewis
And it's like the best back scratch ever. And, you know, if there's any guys listening to this, Ken, I mean, my encouragement would be get around other guys who have gotten over that and,
00:16:36
Jonathan Lewis
and can really encourage you and speak wisdom into your life that can draw you to a place of humility where you drop the act, you drop the pose or the mask, as Eldridge puts it, you surrender God's authority over not just your life, but all of creation.
00:16:54
Jonathan Lewis
I mean, you look out the window behind me here, these red cedars are spectacular. And he created that. And if he created all of creation and he says, not a sparrow will drop from the ground.
00:17:10
Jonathan Lewis
Look at the lilies of the field, how beautifully they're adorned. then of course he cares for you and your wound and your brokenness. And he wants you to be a good dad and a good husband and a good member of society. and He wants you to have a deep sense of justice, but you're not going to be able to scratch that itch on your own.
00:17:31
Jonathan Lewis
You have to submit like all of creation to your creators.
00:17:36
Ken Freire
Yeah. Well, what causes men to not want to surrender? Cause I know a lot of guys who are afraid, like deep down inside, they want the result that you talked about, but the process to get there is really difficult because we have been trained to be like, figure it out by yourself, you know, pick yourself up by your bootstraps.
00:17:46
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:57
Ken Freire
Let's make it happen.
00:17:57
Jonathan Lewis
A real man knows how to deal with this.
00:18:00
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:18:01
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah. I think you've got to, it's like I said, be not conformed to this world. The world is lying to us. It's telling us that real men are islands. I mean, you know, you look at Paul Simon, I am a rock, I'm an island with Garfunkel.
00:18:17
Jonathan Lewis
What a pile of garbage. Men are not rocks. We are not islands. We we were meant to work with other men in particular. We were meant to be a part of community. It's in our DNA to want to be a part of a community.
00:18:32
Jonathan Lewis
I mean, even broken men join biker gangs and gangs. Why? Well, because we're social creatures that we want to be in community, even in prisons, maximum security prisons. What's the first thing everybody does? Right.
00:18:43
Jonathan Lewis
They find their community.
00:18:43
Ken Freire
They find their click.
00:18:44
Jonathan Lewis
They find their buddies, their safety net. So the first thing is, is drop the act. You're not ah you're not an island. Not even the toughest of the toughest men are islands. OK, as a matter of fact, the strongest, toughest and most courageous men I've ever met had really strong community.
00:18:53
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:19:01
Jonathan Lewis
They had four or five guys around them that they could trust and lean on. and that they admired. They had mentors that they looked up to and that they modeled their lives after.
00:19:12
Jonathan Lewis
And I can't think of anybody better than the guy who created you in his own image. And you are armor bearer for him, whether you want to be or not. And you Bob Dylan in 1979 said, you got to serve somebody. It's either the devil or the Lord, but you got to serve somebody.
00:19:28
Jonathan Lewis
We have it in our mindset. Oh, that's That's not true. I'll serve myself. Well, if you're serving yourself, you're serving the devil, right?
00:19:36
Ken Freire
hmm
00:19:36
Jonathan Lewis
ah You're either rebelling against God or
The Journey of Humility and Spiritual Growth
00:19:38
Jonathan Lewis
you're pursuing God. You're either humbly pursuing him or in your pride and arrogance, walking away from him. This is an age old battle, right? We're the prize.
00:19:50
Jonathan Lewis
Hell was never created for men. It was created for Satan and ah ah third of the angels in heaven who rebelled against God.
00:19:59
Jonathan Lewis
That's what it was created for. Any men who go to hell is because we've chosen to follow suit and also rebel. But it was never meant for us. Like Jesus said, not that not one would perish. He doesn't want a single man, woman or child to go to hell.
00:20:15
Jonathan Lewis
We want justice and God is the great judge and also has to have justice. And so when I look at Easter, which we just celebrated, Jesus literally came as a substitute to serve the justice that was required for our rebellion, our pride, our arrogance, our haughtiness. I can do it myself.
00:20:41
Jonathan Lewis
So my encouragement to guys would be, I said this to a guy in the UK last week, someone I have a professional relationship with. He's an FX trader, so a currency hedge guy.
00:20:54
Jonathan Lewis
And, you know, he's talking to me about his girlfriend and just his woes of, you know, retreating from Canada back to the UK in the wake of a bad business deal. And I was just listening to him and I just, I could tell the spirit was saying, this has got nothing to do with business. I want you to, I want you to pour into him.
00:21:11
Jonathan Lewis
And he asked me about my faith and I was like, okay, open open door.
00:21:17
Ken Freire
It's like an easy layup.
00:21:18
Jonathan Lewis
And this was an easy layup for me, not for him.
00:21:23
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:24
Jonathan Lewis
And I just said, look, man, you're a smart guy. Guy's got two PhDs in economics, right? I said, you owe it to yourself to answer age old question.
00:21:37
Jonathan Lewis
And that question is simply, who was Jesus, right? 2,000 years ago, this guy was either a liar, I mean a liar, to the nth degree, because he carried the lie all the way to his death.
00:21:47
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:21:52
Jonathan Lewis
And it was a gruesome, brutal death. He was either crazy, which is actually more likely, because how do you actually go through that unless you literally are crazy enough to believe you are who you say you are, which, because he said, I'm the son of God.
00:22:05
Jonathan Lewis
to the point of death, you were who you said you were. And the fact that the 12 men that followed you closely were all willing to die horrible deaths as well, would suggest to me that there's real validity. I mean, if we were in a court of law today,
00:22:25
Jonathan Lewis
And you brought in three or 400 witnesses who said, yeah, we heard him speak. The guy was ah ah alive. He didn't die. He rose. And these 12 guys that followed him, I mean, let's be honest, these guys left to their own devices would have kicked puppy dogs and slapped kids. I mean, they were not the 12 I would have picked.
00:22:41
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:22:42
Jonathan Lewis
right, to carry my message. And yet they're all transformed to the point where they're willing to die for what they say they experienced, witnessed, and saw. So to the guys out there, I would say that the most important question you have to answer in your life is, who is Jesus Christ?
00:22:59
Jonathan Lewis
And what does that mean for me? And how am I going to respond to the answer? And I think you need to, in your in your masculinity say, am I actually prepared to go down this path, answer this question? And then if the question is, he was who he said he was, am I actually going to have the guts to follow through with what that requires of me in response?
00:23:25
Jonathan Lewis
I think that biggest thing that keeps people from answering the question is, is I think in their heart of hearts, they don't want to have to respond to the answer when they get to the final conclusion.
00:23:36
Jonathan Lewis
And so I think the biggest thing that keeps men from God is pride, arrogance, and the lack of willingness to answer the question of who is Jesus and what does that mean and how am I going to respond?
00:23:53
Jonathan Lewis
uh, I am beyond thankful that at 32, 33, 34 years of age, I uttered, I think probably the most important words of my life, although I didn't know it the time. And that was, God, if you're there, if you're real, you reveal yourself to me?
00:24:15
Jonathan Lewis
Because everybody wants to be me except me. And I'm miserable and I'm broken and there's something wrong with me. There's something really wrong with me and I don't want to live in this bondage anymore.
00:24:29
Jonathan Lewis
And I did that on a Sunday morning on a Kubota in my field. And when your heart is authentically postured in a place of humility and it cries out for its creator, me tell you, boys, he shows up.
00:24:48
Jonathan Lewis
right?
00:24:48
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:24:48
Jonathan Lewis
David wrote a Psalm, Psalm 51.
00:24:49
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:24:51
Jonathan Lewis
And the last verse of Psalm, he says, I would offer burnt offerings, but what's the point? Because the real offering to you is a contrite and broken heart.
00:25:02
Jonathan Lewis
And I think if we humble ourselves and we're willing to be vulnerable and we approach God with reverence and respect, he will show up in a magnificent way and transform your life, which by the way,
00:25:16
Jonathan Lewis
obviously includes setting you free from your anger, your bondage, whatever it was that ailed you and broke you. like That's a foregone conclusion, guys. So what seemed like the impossible mountain becomes a molehill, a bunny hill on a ski hill at the start of a magnificent transformational journey.
00:25:35
Ken Freire
Yeah. You know, Jonathan, one thing that I thought about as you were talking is that men, we love to do hard things. Like we love a challenge.
00:25:43
Jonathan Lewis
Totally. And this is hard.
00:25:44
Ken Freire
Right.
00:25:45
Jonathan Lewis
This is not easy.
00:25:45
Ken Freire
This is really hard.
00:25:46
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:25:46
Ken Freire
Yeah. But that's where I was like, oh, we love to do hard things, but sometimes we're afraid to do the hardest thing.
00:25:47
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:25:53
Ken Freire
And that's to surrender all of our will to God and say, okay, I'm going to trust you fully.
00:25:57
Jonathan Lewis
Ego. Yeah.
00:26:00
Ken Freire
I was listening to, I know you and I both, you know, listen to Matt Chandler. I was listening to Matt Chandler and he was talking about this. He's like, hey, if you were at a scale of one to 10, 10 fully trusting God, and you said you're an eight, where you're like, that's only 80%. That means you're trusting yourself 20% and it's never going to work.
00:26:16
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:26:17
Ken Freire
And it's like 100, you got to give 100% to God. And that's really hard. But the benefits of doing that outweighs you holding on to that 20%.
00:26:22
Jonathan Lewis
Well, yeah.
00:26:26
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:28
Jonathan Lewis
And I would even argue in our flesh, we can't even give 100%. He has to take us there.
00:26:34
Jonathan Lewis
Our heart can want to be 100%. But I think that last 1%, 5%, I don't know what it is, man, but the last two years, my prayer has been, take me all the way.
00:26:48
Jonathan Lewis
Make me the kind of man that actually is of use to you. And it scared me to pray that prayer because I inherently knew from my understanding of the Bible that that probably meant a lot more time on the potter's wheel than I would have liked and probably a lot more pain by way of some difficulties that would require the shaping of my character to get me to be and that kind of man.
00:27:17
Jonathan Lewis
And, you know, I think about Job 1315, Job says, though you slay me, yet will I trust you. know, Job cursed the day he was born, but he never cursed God.
00:27:28
Jonathan Lewis
And the very end of Job 42.5, I think it's just an amazing statement of fact that he only could have come to having gone through the trials, the James 1 verse 2 trials.
00:27:42
Jonathan Lewis
And it was, my ears had heard of you, but now my eyes see you. And said, I'm not even convinced that I'm a hundred percent, but here's what
Trusting God Through Family Challenges
00:27:53
Jonathan Lewis
I do know. and It's okay if I'm not, because God will carry me the distance. And frankly, that's what it's all about.
00:28:02
Jonathan Lewis
I mean, I, I went through a very difficult time and am going through a very difficult time with our two, teenage daughters. And, two years ago I got on my knees and I was having like an Elijah moment where I'm like, God, just let me die. Like I can,
00:28:16
Jonathan Lewis
I've done everything, but this I cannot bear. These girls are going far, far adrift.
00:28:20
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:28:23
Jonathan Lewis
this is crushing. feel like I've done everything you've asked me to do. And I think I had a transactional mindset where i was like, well, I do all this stuff, you know, like the proverb, you know, raise them in his ways and they won't depart from it.
00:28:34
Jonathan Lewis
So where's my transactional? I did what you wanted. And now my daughter should be perfect. You know, young women who are sold out for Jesus. And, God had to reveal to me two things. One, they're not my kids, they're his, and he loves them more than I do. That was a tough pill to swallow, he is pursuing them, even when I can't.
00:28:55
Jonathan Lewis
the the real reveal, the real difficult pill was when I felt the spirit after a period of fasting. He said, Jonathan, do you trust me with the girls?
00:29:06
Jonathan Lewis
And I've gone through this with my business, yep. My marriage, you got it. Friendships, no problem. Church dynamics, no problem. Ministry, cash flow.
00:29:17
Jonathan Lewis
But it was funny when he said, do you trust me with the girls? There was like a millisecond pause in my spirit where the answer was not an emphatic yes.
00:29:25
Ken Freire
Mm.
00:29:28
Jonathan Lewis
And it surprised because I thought the answer was yes until I felt the spirit putting the question to me. And then I started to weep tears of contrition because I realized that I didn't fully trust him. And guys, our heavenly father knows us better than we know ourselves. Like he will do heart surgery and draw us into a deeper and deeper place of trust and surrender to him, even when we thought we've arrived.
00:29:58
Jonathan Lewis
And, you know, I look at Peter and Jesus's interactions with Peter, and I would have loved to have been able to witness the rest of Peter's life prior to saying, crucify me upside down because I'm not worthy to even die the way he died.
00:30:06
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:30:15
Jonathan Lewis
I mean, Peter went from being a pretty cocky, self-assured, aggressive person a guy guy who is arguably a tax cheat and, you know, literally lived by the words, if it's meant to be, it's up to me to humble.
00:30:31
Jonathan Lewis
You can see it in his writing in first, second and third Peter. It's a completely different guy. And he's like, I can't even, I'm not even worthy to die the way he died.
00:30:43
Jonathan Lewis
I'm not like, it wasn't like he was trying to showboat. He literally was like, I don't want to die the way Christ died. I just think, wow, like what a pilgrimage God took him on to transform him
Mission and Community Building of Fathers for Fathers
00:30:58
Jonathan Lewis
prior to him coming into eternity where, and that's the thing also guys, you're never, ever, ever going to fill this void here.
00:30:58
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:31:04
Jonathan Lewis
Like Augustine said that, that there's a hole in our, in our human hearts that can only be filled by God. So you can, You can be like a duck on water and just paddle, paddle, paddle, paddle vigorously.
00:31:16
Jonathan Lewis
And you can even look like you get it all together on the surface. But sooner or later, you're going to get exhausted trying to do it in your own steam.
00:31:26
Ken Freire
Yeah. and And Jonathan, you and both know a lot of guys who have burnt out because they were trying to do it on their own.
00:31:31
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, totally.
00:31:32
Ken Freire
And that's where, in some ways, Fathers for Fathers was birth of like, you're seeing all this tragedy.
00:31:37
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:31:40
Ken Freire
And we know where there are no men, society start to crumble, homes start to fall.
00:31:40
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:31:45
Jonathan Lewis
Yep. Yep.
00:31:46
Ken Freire
And you were like, hey, I'm going to take... the initiative and something that I believe you and I both believe that God put on your heart to do, right? It's called you to do and you've started it. But you're like, I'm going to try to to reverse this trajectory.
00:31:58
Ken Freire
So walk us through a little bit of like practically what does fathers for fathers do for those men who are listening to you and they're like, man, this story resonates.
00:31:59
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:32:06
Ken Freire
I'm, I have been angry or I am angry and I am alone and I am struggling and I'm, I need something different because what I'm doing is not working.
00:32:15
Jonathan Lewis
Sure, so I would say Fathers for Fathers actually isn't even targeted at men as much as it is at churches that need structure men's for men's groups.
00:32:22
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:32:27
Jonathan Lewis
So the vision that God put on me this time two years ago was to build a parachurch that really doubles as an ambulatory or a stretcher-bearer type of service for men. So on the one hand, yes, we're about men and that we wanna find them,
00:32:42
Jonathan Lewis
and get them to the church. But the church is the hospital. don't wanna be their church. We wanna be the ambulatory service that gets to where they are in their brokenness. Like if they're on Pornhub, like my my best outcome is that Fathers for Fathers is advertising on Pornhub.
00:33:00
Jonathan Lewis
even know if that's possible. I hate to say it, but Canada, one of our biggest s s exports, is gambling. Our two biggest exports is not oil.
00:33:11
Jonathan Lewis
It's gambling and pornography, which is pretty sad.
00:33:16
Jonathan Lewis
Both of which come predominantly out of Montreal. I'd love to see Fathers Fathers have a head office in the same building on the same floor as Pornhub someday. um I'd like to see all those guys get saved.
00:33:28
Jonathan Lewis
But either way, In Canada, we don't have super churches. like know you're in Franklin, Tennessee, or Nashville. And know I've spent some time in Charleston, and and there's like church every five feet.
00:33:41
Jonathan Lewis
And it's not just a church, but 500 people, 2,000 people, people. Belt, you're extremely well-churched.
00:33:49
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:33:50
Jonathan Lewis
can do a whole nother podcast on legalism and cultural Christianity and how many people are actually like chasing our father. But outside of the Bible Belt, Christianity is under duress. It's under attack.
00:34:03
Jonathan Lewis
In Canada, you know, I live in a city with 550,000 people and there's probably eight evangelical churches that are expository teaching the word and none of them have more than four or 500 people.
00:34:14
Ken Freire
Wow.
00:34:14
Jonathan Lewis
So these churches don't have a lot of money. because they don't have a lot of money, They got to choose where they can do the most damage with the the least amount of resources.
00:34:19
Ken Freire
Thank you.
00:34:21
Jonathan Lewis
So men's ministry is extremely time consuming because men are not easy to break and it costs a lot of money. And so I really feel like God put it on my heart to build a turnkey men's ministry for churches that can't afford it.
00:34:37
Jonathan Lewis
So we're partnering with churches in that context. have our immersive study, which is going to print here. In the next couple of weeks, it's like an eight to 10 week study where we take men from kind of like Eldridge, the wound, the brokenness.
00:34:51
Jonathan Lewis
But it's it's a full pilgrimage on the journey of sanctification, what it means to really live and walk in the spirit.
00:34:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:35:01
Jonathan Lewis
Know God, know his word, know your identity walk with authority and be free the bondage, the anger, the traps that have ensnared you. But we also do, um you know, these hikes. I think we're doing 10 of them this year. Eight are on the books now where we we we take guys that maybe they're divorced, single parenting, don't have a lot of money. And we've got supporters that will finance the cost of some gear and even the cost of getting them there. And we take them for a four or five day hike in the mountains and really allow them to have community with men. And if I've learned anything about men and my time in the military, I'm
00:35:38
Jonathan Lewis
when men have a shared experience where they don't have their phones, they don't have any distractions and they can really open up around a campfire, open and honest, it's transformative. you did one a couple of weeks ago where we had guys baptized.
00:35:51
Jonathan Lewis
We even had a Navy SEAL who is a hard, hard nut. And the last day he opened up and sure enough, talked about his anger and just trying to understand where it comes from. it was just so good. and so Fathers for Fathers is really meant to be a parachurch a ah stretcher bearer for the main body.
00:36:14
Jonathan Lewis
And it's to challenge and rally men. And so, for example, Father's Day is coming up. And we are very aggressively working to rally churches to do something around Father's Day, which we did last year.
00:36:26
Jonathan Lewis
And in our first year, it went coast to coast in Canada and we had several states in the US s join us. And I know this year it'll be even more.
00:36:34
Ken Freire
That's awesome. Jonathan, those people who are like, hey, I want to get my church plugged into this, or they want to just get to know you more, what's the best way to to get a hold of you?
00:36:35
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:36:42
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:36:45
Jonathan Lewis
you can. Well, there's several ways you can text me. My cell number is everywhere on all my socials. So feel free and I will respond. You can message us at Fathers for Fathers, our website.
00:36:57
Jonathan Lewis
I'm sure you're going to put down below, but it's just www.fathersforfathers.org.
00:37:00
Ken Freire
Yep.
00:37:03
Jonathan Lewis
It's in the U.S. and Canada. you know, I've got guys who will send me a ah message on one of our posts on, uh, Facebook. Obviously my marketing team is doing that, but I'm still monitoring it. One guy said, Hey, I want to come on one of these hikes. I'm like, no problem.
00:37:17
Jonathan Lewis
I'll throw the QR code in here when we have the next one up for sign up, but can't wait to meet you. So, you know, we're not, I don't want to ever get so big that we forget that we're, we're still, doing this one guy at a time.
00:37:31
Jonathan Lewis
And by one guy at a time, like I mean literally, you know, but relationships. Obviously, the goal is to hand them off to good pastoral leadership where they can get discipleship and community. But I also realize there has to be a trust factor at the beginning. And so we work hard on that with the guys.
00:37:48
Ken Freire
Yeah, I love that. for those of you who are wondering, would Jonathan really respond to a his text messages? Absolutely. I mean, Jonathan, we've been texting each other back and forth for quite some time now.
00:37:57
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:59
Ken Freire
And I was like, know, Jonathan didn't get into all the details of what he does. And in some ways, very well off, like you're very successful in the world's eyes. And I'm like, man, he's texting me faster than than parents do sometimes.
00:38:10
Jonathan Lewis
You know what drives me nuts is when you text someone and they don't get back to you.
00:38:10
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:38:16
Jonathan Lewis
Like, so yeah, no, like as a matter of fact, if you text me, because obviously text like, you know, can stack up on you or you open it and you think I'll respond later and then you
00:38:26
Jonathan Lewis
I'm so glad use max that you can blue dot it. So I can remember to go back.
00:38:31
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:38:32
Ken Freire
Oh, yeah.
00:38:32
Jonathan Lewis
But I would literally have anxiety about, did I forget anybody today? Like my wife knows. before I go to bed, I pray. But the thing I do before I pray is I go through my texts one last time for the day to make sure I haven't forgotten anybody.
00:38:46
Jonathan Lewis
And take it seriously, partially because I'm in a service industry, but also for fathers, for fathers, well, that's what I'm trying to do is serve guys.
00:38:46
Ken Freire
Hmm. Hmm.
00:38:56
Jonathan Lewis
And often these are guys in desperate situations. I mean, I can remember flying to Toronto and meeting a guy in a parking lot who was just suicidal and spending an hour and a half with them. And And I'm so happy to say that we've got him plugged into community.
00:39:09
Jonathan Lewis
And although the storm is still raging, he's got a support system now, right?
00:39:14
Ken Freire
Yeah, which is huge.
00:39:14
Jonathan Lewis
He's coming on one of our hikes in Virginia August. And it'll only be the second time I've ever met this guy. But I pray for him all the time and his kids.
00:39:21
Ken Freire
Hmm.
00:39:25
Jonathan Lewis
So, yeah.
00:39:26
Ken Freire
Yeah. Awesome. Jonathan, love what you're doing. love you as a brother. you know, as I remember the first time we had a conversation, told you, Jonathan, I think we're going become great friends because of what the Lord has done in your heart and my heart.
00:39:32
Jonathan Lewis
Likewise, Ken.
00:39:35
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
00:39:39
Ken Freire
And I want to see Fathers for Fathers grow tremendously and still be very relational.
00:39:43
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:39:44
Ken Freire
So thank you so much for being on the podcast, man.
00:39:44
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah. Agree.
00:39:46
Ken Freire
I really appreciate that.
00:39:47
Jonathan Lewis
My pleasure.
00:39:48
Ken Freire
And for those of you who are interested, want you guys to go check out Fathers for Fathers.
00:39:48
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:39:53
Ken Freire
Go text Jonathan. Sincerely, he's there to help you. If you are in that desperate situation where you're like, I have lived in a life where I've been fatherless. heard Jonathan's
00:40:03
Ken Freire
He lost his father.
00:40:03
Jonathan Lewis
you're not, you're not fatherless.
00:40:05
Ken Freire
You're not fatherless.
00:40:05
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:40:06
Ken Freire
is someone there, and it's the best father.
00:40:06
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:40:09
Jonathan Lewis
He is. He really is. Like I, I would actually say losing my dad was actually one of the best things that ever happened in my life. And I don't say that lightly, because, I have a perfect heavenly father who has literally been father to the fatherless as Psalm 68 says.
00:40:25
Jonathan Lewis
yeah, father's day, You know, if you want to check out what we're doing on our website for Father's Day, Ken, I invite you and your church to join us. But we're just asking guys to fast, whether it's from food or their devices the day before Father's Day, get up early and join other guys from their church to pray and either walk to church, walk around their church.
00:40:43
Jonathan Lewis
Last year, we had guys walk into a lake doing baptisms and walking back to church.
00:40:47
Jonathan Lewis
But join us in getting real about Father's Day and making a covenant with our Father to really lean in, step up and own our responsibility in this.
00:40:59
Ken Freire
I love it. I love it. All right.
00:40:59
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:41:00
Ken Freire
For all of you men, go check out Fathers for Fathers. See if your church could get plugged in for Father's Day with the campaign and the initiative that you guys are doing.
00:41:07
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:41:08
Ken Freire
Jonathan, thank you once again for being on the show.
00:41:08
Jonathan Lewis
Yeah.
00:41:11
Ken Freire
And for all of you men who are listening, remember to keep killing shame, standing strong, and be on mission.
00:41:11
Jonathan Lewis
Thank you, Ken.
00:41:18
Ken Freire
Our perfect Father loves you, and He's got you, and He's always going to be with you.
00:41:18
Jonathan Lewis
That's right.
00:41:22
Ken Freire
Hope you guys have great day, and God bless.
00:41:22
Jonathan Lewis
That's right, Ken.