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We watch "Elogium" (S2 Ep.4)
17 Plays10 months ago
Welcome to Janeway’s Children
This week we are watching "Elogium" in which Voyager has to fight off a potential mate, and Kes unexpectedly reaches a significant milestone.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
the recording has okay great sorry i was mumbling there because it said the recording has finished i was like what's going on what's that speak up sorry i couldn't help myself uh our poor listeners okay welcome back el platypur and jen uh and i'm red and we're here to talk about uh star trek voyager season two episode four elodium um wow this has been a very long time i don't remember if we ever introduced
00:00:31
Speaker
How's everyone doing? Good. Thank you. I've just about stressed eating myself out of the pre-podcast grumpos telling you about. Oh, yes. Good. I am also good. A little bit tired this evening.
00:00:50
Speaker
I think we might get through this episode pretty quickly because when I re-watched it, it went quite quickly.
Preferences for Later Seasons
00:00:56
Speaker
I don't know. It doesn't, it feels like it doesn't have as many scenes. I don't know if that's just a perception, it just, yeah. See, it felt kind of long to me. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm rapidly realising, like, actually, I really do love, like, the later seasons quite, like, some of the characters in them.
00:01:16
Speaker
I struggled a little bit with season two, I think, a little bit.
Memorable and Humorous Scenes
00:01:20
Speaker
Who could not like an episode with a size of an expectant whatever species Kez is being lifted out and carried out bodily by her husband while she eats purple flower petals? What's not to like with an episode like that? You both started looking at me as though I'm, you know, insane. Sorry. I think Jane's having some tech. Oh yeah, you actually cut out for me. It sounds like that was just me. I think that was just you. I heard Jane.
00:01:45
Speaker
Okay. Okay, well, before we do that topping around version of the podcast. Roger Rabbit. Jamie, are you ready? Do you remember you do a one minute summary? I know it's been a while since we recorded. I do remember, although typically it doesn't take one minute, it just tends to end up with me being offensive in some way or other. But in this case, it just seems like it. It's an episode about fatherhood,
00:02:16
Speaker
uh it's an episode about why you shouldn't um well frankly try to out alpha a bunch of sexually aroused space lugs which is the only way that uh i can describe some of the creatures
00:02:34
Speaker
in this. And it is a, well, this is an episode about how you can beater your way out of problems, as evidenced by Chikoshi's suggestion, the Voyager be submissive to the dominant alpha space sex slug. Very good. I think you got there in the end. That was good. Thank you. Oh, and the elixis in it as well. Oh, well, yeah, favorite features quite a lot.
00:03:00
Speaker
Well, I'm trying to respond to him, not with aggression now, but with, uh, ignorance or by ignoring him. So that's the approach I took there with what would submissive never submit to Neelix. I mean, so much of this episode speaks to that point.
Character Dynamics and Initial Reactions
00:03:17
Speaker
Um, so we kind of hinted at some initial reactions already to any fights. You said, but it was a bit slow.
00:03:25
Speaker
Any other initial reactions? I don't like to be critical so I mean I will say that I really really love one scene which of course is Red's, one of Red's favorites, a very wise Tuvok. Oh yes. And you enjoy his ruminations on Fatherhood. So good. Yeah I enjoyed that scene a lot. It probably took a lot of the thickness you asked for it. You know each to their own, it's just yeah
00:03:53
Speaker
also disgusting. Yes. Like, I mean, great job on the makeup and I guess in the acting, but like, Kess off. Yes, there was one time where I was like, well, it's quite soon, so I won't get, but physically, like, couldn't look at the screen because I knew it was coming. Jamie, your initial reactions?
00:04:22
Speaker
I thought there were elements of this episode that were quite fun. As I said, I loved the scene in which Neelix can't take the fact that Kez appears to be eating everything disgusting going and drags her out bodily eating blue petals and stuffing handfuls of blue and purple petals into her mouth to sickbay saying something's wrong with my wife.
Real-life Decisions and Relationships
00:04:51
Speaker
I don't know. I always find the sort of moments of interaction and intimacy between Neelix and Kes a bit cringy though. I don't know why. Um, cause she seems very, very young and I'm his alien. I mean, there is that. Yeah. But his alien costume makes him seem like a bit of a sleazy old version of Bilbo Baggins. Yeah. I think now it's dated badly. Sorry.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, maybe as a first time viewer, I think that when I did rewatch it, like in 2019 or 2020, perhaps I thought the same, but now I've watched so many times. I'm very.
00:05:28
Speaker
poured into their relationship. But yeah, I mean, I think overall, I, like I said, I thought, I kind of enjoyed it. And I thought it was kind of funny how, I guess, at any point in your life, when you're watching Star Trek, and maybe you have to watch all the episodes, but something will resonate with, I'm just thinking about a lot of my friends who had to decide, are they gonna have kids? Are they not gonna have kids? I mean, it does raise, you know, all these kinds of, and now, I mean, I'm a bit beyond, but the kid having age. So I was like, oh, Star Trek is still around.
00:05:58
Speaker
So yeah, I just thought, and I thought there were a couple of, yeah, as we said, that scene that you mentioned, Janie, in the scene with Janeway and Kaz in Sick Bay. They're kind of like touching emotional scenes between people, which I liked. Could I take it down at a level as well? Although not discussing it. And I'm not editing it.
00:06:21
Speaker
okay god i mean you know you made such a big deal out of that last time you said something that you know could have got you cancelled red um that is entirely fictitious for the record it's probably me that said something that could have got me cancelled i do like the fact that there is a hair off at the end between the skipper and one of the few other female members of the crew has a booth every bit as big and dominant as the skippers
00:06:50
Speaker
That's how you know it's real. I can see it. Good points to not notice that. And also, I had momentarily forgotten the end of this episode, which I also really like. I thought it was a nice little twist, which I won't say anymore about just yet. Yes, and also does lead nicely into the future, which I didn't really click until. Repercussions for their journey and how they're going to manage. Yeah. OK, so should we dive into the teaser?
00:07:19
Speaker
Anyone want to lead us through the teaser? I'm good to follow your leadership, as I've read. Well, we opened with Jokote getting to the turbolift and it opens and two people are K-I-S-S-I-N-G. I knew that I was going to lead with that. I don't know why I saw them, I was like, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. Jenny, you raised your finger.
00:07:47
Speaker
Oh no, I was just going to add to your little song with K-I-S-S-I-N-G, but not in a tree. And they look a bit embarrassed. Would you be embarrassed if you were caught by your CEO and his second-in-command snogging in a lift? Oh my gosh, yes. Would you be embarrassed if the lift was on a spaceship
00:08:12
Speaker
and you've been stranded by a wormhole the far side of the known universe and we're going to be stuck together for circa 78 years. Yes, well embarrassed. Okay, I just wanted to get my frames of reference. Where you've got some kind of CO or that kind of a relationship. Well I just struggled with knowing where the parameters of you know normal social interaction are so I thought I'd ask the question. Would you be embarrassed? I don't know, it never happened to me. I assume you guys know because it's happened to you.
00:08:42
Speaker
Yes, I've been in space 35 light years ago. But then we go into, I think they all exit the turbolift and it's also Tom and Kiz are with Chakotay and Tom is just helping Kiz carry some leaves.
Space Threats and Humor
00:08:56
Speaker
Green silent views is helping. That is helping her carry those leaves. Well, yes, I feel like you might have a lot to say, but Neelix really loses it. What do you have to say about Neelix's behavior, Jamie?
00:09:12
Speaker
I feel as someone who looks visually like every specimen of the toxic masculinity I see manifesting itself in this scene that I do not have the right to comment. So I shall defer that, right?
00:09:28
Speaker
Jenny, you're married. Oh, well, I mean, yeah, he acts sort of jealous and kind of possessively. And I think it doesn't at this point, Kess makes a point that, you know, it doesn't actually matter, even if he was interested, because it's about trusting her. You know, it's the age old argument, jealous husband.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, but he loses it because he's like, you're such an innocent. And then I think it's just because he was helping carry something. And he said, like Tom said, see you later. And she said, yes. And he's like, I know. Yeah, later. That's not a serious conversation. That's just like all talk. But yes, it's like a setting up. Well, yeah, there's a few moments which I'll see later on. Hmm.
00:10:17
Speaker
On the bridge, we see that the crew is investigating some strange energy readings. They've discovered some space-dwelling life forms. At first I was like, what's the big deal about space-dwelling life forms? Isn't everything they encounter a space-dwelling life form, but I guess they mean they actually live and float in space as opposed to planets, other planets. Yeah, like how do they survive in a vacuum like that? Like breathing nothing? Kind of an interesting idea. Yeah, good point.
00:10:46
Speaker
And in that same scene, we see Captain Jamie Chacote discussing the challenges of relationships on their long journey home. Throughout this one, I've forgotten about that actually, there's this weird flirting thing going on between Jamie and Chacote, which is quite entertaining.
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah, because she he's like, I think we should have a policy and she's like, well, I don't think we can really interfere. And he's like, well, we kind of in a different situation to normal Starfleet kind of situations. And generally, like kind of just accepting that eventually people will probably pair off, but not herself. She doesn't have that luxury. He's like, do you also mean yourself or something? Yeah, he's he's inquiring, I think. Well, yeah, I mean, there's there's there's intent there. And some
00:11:37
Speaker
small amounts of smolder nice word and i thought of the JC shippers which i think i mentioned before the people that really wanted them to get together the JC shippers but to use a phrase that jakota used earlier it's unlikely that Janeway will be conducting any indiscreet shipboard fraternization because i think that's what he called what he saw that turbolift um there's something about she's still because it's not that far down the line she's still hoping for
00:12:05
Speaker
Yes. She's hoping to be back soon. And then we go to the disgusting bit. Yes! In the aeroponics bay, Kes starts eating beetles. Just like, without even realising it, I think. Yeah, just a sort of natural desire to, which apparently is a thing. Yes. Really? For that species of alien, they do that.
00:12:30
Speaker
no no no no like humans get cravings for weird things like eating dirt um well it can be just a sign apparently of um certain diseases as well if you start craving strange things like beetles or grass or um slow gin i don't know how accurate that information is let it somewhere
00:12:54
Speaker
I'm not very checked into it, but I'm just like, that makes sense. There is no source. I have no source. This is a source free podcast. This is random thoughts. Post truths. It is a bit sinister though. And it's a completely different direction from where we thought we were going for, you know, we're going to investigate the space creatures. And also this is going to be about Tom Paris shaking it.
00:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, that's really true, actually. And so it's completely unexpected. But when I was watching the second time, I was like, I can't watch. And it's almost like she doesn't realize. And then when she realizes, she's like horrified. So that's almost because you're like, well, I don't know why it's worse. It's just worse.
00:13:37
Speaker
Well yeah I agree it's worse because I mean you can imagine only suddenly realizing you've got crushed beetles in your mouth purposefully putting it there. But anyway I just realised that we spent quite a lot of time on the teasers so should I delve into act one?
00:13:55
Speaker
Go for it. Yeah, go Jenny. Here we go. So, on the bridge, we're learning about the life forms. They're similar to protozoa, but faster, no digestive system. And bigger. Yes, much bigger. We have a porous outer covering. And then we're in Kesa's quarters, and she's eating again, eating all kinds of strange stuff. Neelix brings her flowers. And we're back.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yes, we're back. Sorry, Ron, but back to Jenny. Sorry to interrupt you. That's all right. After initial blip. Um, so I think I was talking about act one. So act one on the ridge, learning about the life forms, which are protozoa, but faster. They have no digestive system and they have a porous outer covering. So they just have to absorb nutrients from the atmosphere. I think is that how they work? Yeah.
00:14:44
Speaker
I cannot remember. And they have to move really quickly because there's not a lot of nutrients in the atmosphere. Presumably they're in space, so there is no atmosphere.
Technical Challenges and Reproduction Discussions
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry. It's an area of food poverty, I think, would be the technical term, but yeah, sorry, back to you, Chaney. In Kez's quarters, Kez is eating lots of stuff, lots of strange stuff. Helix brings her some flowers, she apologizes, and she eats them.
00:15:11
Speaker
And then Kez is sharing with me that she can't stop eating. And she's adding nitrogenated soil to her food. Yeah. I mean, I feel we should point out at this point that he doesn't just take her, he lifts her and carries her bodily legs kicking as she struggles to get away from him to try and get more unusual foodstuffs to eat.
00:15:36
Speaker
That was actually a very funny moment. I only realized it after the second view, but I was like, that is hilarious. She's got those strands of the plant in her bath, and he's trying to carry her up. And when she's eating those two apples at once, did you notice? She's like biting from each apple.
00:15:54
Speaker
And yes, when he was apologizing, when he was like, I'm just no man like Tom Paris, they're all over the quadrant. I just thought, you just can't escape players. They are everywhere. There is a nice Adam and Eve reference though, with the two apples. And we should also point out the fact that throughout the process of plumbing the culinary depths,
00:16:17
Speaker
Kez's look just looks more and more and more feral and terrifying and it's reflected in her body language as well because her body language becomes quite sort of I don't know to say bestial but animalistic um so it's it's quite interesting atmospherically I think she actually does a very good job the actress in this I mean I always I know not everyone loves her but I always like her yeah I enjoy her
00:16:47
Speaker
And Jenny, do you want to take us back to the bridge? So they're on the bridge and they're still following and studying the swarm of lifeforms. Voyager begins to accelerate, even though Paris is trying to slow down. And then Voyager gets pulled in by the magnetic wake of space sex. Yes. I haven't paid too much attention to the technical aspects of this, but I think there's like an EM resonance field that they can't getting sucked in by.
00:17:17
Speaker
So yeah, I don't have anything much to add there, just a bit of action, I guess. But it doesn't seem very perilous to me, to be honest. I'm not worried that they're going to die in this slug storm. Act two. We're already on act two, guys. So I think Jamie asked for... Oh, Jamie, we've lost your sound again. What's happened?
00:17:39
Speaker
I muted myself, that's what happened. There's a question they read. Would your perception of possible risk be influenced by the knowledge that the magnetic resonance was generated by space sex slugs? Yeah, I think it seems less dangerous. Because they're space sex slugs, which we don't know at that point. Really? That's true.
00:18:07
Speaker
I don't know why. I just was like, I didn't feel like they were going to die. I mean, at all. Sorry. No point. And I think they were going to die, but that's just me. Um, yeah. So in act two, they're on the bridge. Uh, everything is, they have life support, but actually a lot of things are going offline. Um, they don't have impulse power, but they've got the warp core, which Cody doesn't want to use it because they might harm these life forms.
00:18:35
Speaker
So does anyone want to explain what Volana Taurus came up with, the Targ scoop? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's basically a mechanism whereby magnetic fields are generated in order to scoop particulate matter out of the way of the ship. I can't recall the precise nature of the anecdote to do with the Targ, but that was my understanding of the mechanism.
00:19:05
Speaker
That's good because I think I got my understanding was wrong because I was like, that sounds a bit like when they play classical music to keep teenagers away. And I don't think that's how it's supposed to go. I don't know if we had tog in real life. Yeah, I wasn't sure if it was supposed to repel and how. But yes, thank you, Jamie. I want to find out more about this tog scoop because I don't remember enough about it. OK, well, while Jamie is researching, Jamie, do you want to take us through the next scene? Which is quite funny.
00:19:34
Speaker
No, no, no, no, I've found out what the Targ scoop is. It's a device used on the front of Klingon ground assault vehicles to prevent collisions with Targ herds. Now, what's a Targ herd? No, so it's like a cow. Is it? Yeah. It's not even a single in front of trains. It's like a cow. Cow herder. Cow prong. I'm thinking of cattle prong or something, I don't know why.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I think, yeah, in the next scene we're in sickbay. Neelix is panicking. Wow, he is again. I'm surprised you're not complaining about him, Jamie. I mean, this is a bit annoying. The last time my better half started eating earth and random plants and beetles, I too was panicking, so I can sympathise. Apart from the fact that he's gone from
00:20:27
Speaker
I want to lock up my wife because she's talking to other men. My wife is eating earth and plants and things like that. Lock her up for me, doctor, in terms of tone, which I think we can all get behind is perhaps not optimal. I mean, he's getting in the way of the doctor. It was quite funny.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yeah, but he eventually gets kicked out, I think, by the doctor. There is a fair amount of humor to be found in this as well, along with a fair amount of at effing last. I did like, I think, Jenny, that the doctor proposes that theory that she might be craving those minerals or things, you know, like, because they're trying to figure out what's wrong. And I did like her line, you can't mean my body likes dirt, because that's what she's eating.
00:21:15
Speaker
So, um, but he looks, it's very upset that he's been kicked out storms to the bridge, complains to Janeway. She's like just ignoring him, but clock clocks onto the fact that, uh, um, kids is actually ill or something. Uh, and actually at that point, the doctor kind of calls and summons, summons her to sick bay, um, to cause he's got a report on kids. Um, Janie, do you want to, Oh yeah.
00:21:45
Speaker
I hope I got that part of the notes right. No, I was not expecting to jump in mid-act, but I'm more than happy to. I believe we're at the point where she's in Caz is in sickbay and has taken over the doctor's office and erected a force field. So the doctor suspects Caz is being affected by the phospho-erotic force field. Voyager must leave.
00:22:14
Speaker
Well, that's his recommendation. They need to get out. Yeah. And the doctor has also found a strange growth on her back. Which, again, sounds a bit... not great. But yes, then I think they have this nice scene where Janeway tries to reason with kiss and explain what the doctor thinks is going on. But she's like shaking her head and Janeway's like, oh, do you think it's something else? And please let me in.
00:22:43
Speaker
into the kind of force field. I did like at this point, I think Kez, Neelix is trying to also like plead with Kez and he's like, you can eat anything you want. I kind of just let me in, which is not sweet. Lacking and understanding. Yes, completely missing the point. He's like, you can eat whatever you want. There might be more going on here than weird cravings, Neelix. Yeah. But Kez does lower the force field for Janeway.
00:23:12
Speaker
And do you want to explain a scientific medical thing that's going on, Jenny? Oh, that Kess explains eventually. Yeah, at this point. So Kess actually seems to know what it is. She says that, I can't remember how it's they say it, Elogium? Yeah. There's something that happens to her species once. And it's basically the time when they can have a child.
00:23:41
Speaker
but it only happens the once, so she has to decide basically further to have a child right now. It happens much earlier than it usually does. Yeah, so she's actually going through what Janeway characters are as a puberty, but as you say, it's actually a one-time thing. So suddenly it's gone from being puberty to being like she has to decide this major life decision. And we also find out she's only two at this point, and normally they go through it at four or five.
00:24:10
Speaker
Are our years on her planet a different length to human years? I think she just ages much more quickly, Jenny. Is that right? Because I think... Yeah, the way they seem to refer to it is it seems to be that they're counting in human years. Yeah. But I don't know.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is human years, but like, so they will only have a life of five years together, her and Neelix. Okay, no shit, I mean, I struggle with this, but anyway, carry on, I'm just struggling because I want to be gratuitous. Well, it just, it occurs to me actually that it didn't occur to me when I was fortunate enough to say that when they're deciding about what to do,
00:25:00
Speaker
If she's wanting Neelix to be the father, Neelix has a sort of humanish type lifespan. What kind of lifespan is the child gonna have? And if it's something in between the two, that's a bit mental, isn't it? She's gonna basically die when her child's quite young. Yeah. Also, is it ever confirmed in the episode that they are genetically compatible?
00:25:26
Speaker
Well, Janeway does raise the question that although that they don't actually know but yeah Okay, so I think we are we are moving along to act three So Jamie returns to the bridge to get an update from the crew and then in her ready room She discusses Kazza situation with Kote, which I think again is actually quite a nice moment you've seen
00:25:53
Speaker
And then actually, yeah, she does say they don't know if they genetically compatible, but this does raise a lot of questions. And she's like, well, if we is going to take us 75 years to get back, we might have to replace the workforce. Workforce planning.
00:26:11
Speaker
at an HR department. I'm not saying that, you know, any HR department in any place ever should ever be tasked with managing the pro-creational refresh of a Starship crew. But I'm just saying that they would want to, to make sure it was, you know, done in a risk free way, if not humane way.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah I mean there's I yeah I mean it's kind of insane to think you have to replace your workforce by having children and then like Janeway's like well what life are we bringing them into and I just wish all parents spent as much time thinking about whether they're going to have kids or not as the characters in this TV show. I just think that Janeway's missing a trick here really because like there are alternative models that they I think the Federation has already come across like
00:27:05
Speaker
there's an absolute peach of an opportunity to develop a Borg-style collective societal vision on the board Voyager and, you know, avoid the problem there, that she's just inexplicably missing. Well, that's not really Starfleet-style, I think you were right. As Jokote has said, it's a different situation and some might say it's a little bit
00:27:33
Speaker
Blink it for Janeway just to be thinking in terms of Starfleet mores given 50% of her crew are not Starfleet. And indeed, the couple who are causing all the problems right now are definitely not Starfleet. Okay. Well, yes, yeah. So they, as they're kind of like, I guess, senior leadership team are having to grapple with this question that they haven't thought about before. They have an SLT.
00:27:59
Speaker
Well, no, but I'm just calling it like the first officer, whatever the bridge team, the bridge team. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
00:28:09
Speaker
But then we go back to Sigbe. I don't know who wants to take us through this, but this is not Neelix being confronted with this option or choice. I mean, Neelix. I tell you what, I can't handle the back and forth. I'll go back forward. Okay, but we don't tend to just do the whole act in one go because there's different scenes, you know? So an act is like multiple scenes with different things going on.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, so this isn't any different to, I think, what we've done before. Interesting. Yeah, so I would say, overall, Neelix seems a bit unprepared. He reminds me, I think, of a lot of mom and dads. He's like, are you sure? Are we ready?
00:28:54
Speaker
Is it safe? I mean, I'd go a step further. He actively seems to want not. Which I think isn't necessarily typical of modern dads, as he's standing up for masculinity, all of that stuff. It's typical of dads who don't actually want the kid. Fair enough. I say judgily.
00:29:19
Speaker
He does say bringing a child into the world is a huge responsibility. I did laugh. I don't know if you guys laughed when he was like saying, well, I guess someone will have to watch all the time. She's like, that's right. That's called bigger parents. She seems to be like, really, uh, she seems much more committed to the idea. And obviously he seems more evasive, but then he finds out he does actually have 50 hours to decide. And so he seems relieved. Say what?
00:29:50
Speaker
Well, he finds out a bit more about the process that if they do make, they'll be bonded for six days. They have 50 hours to decide because the window is... I think this is called as driving the narrative tension. Yes, exactly. I'm not sure if the being bonded for six days pop might not be the most terrifying thing. Can you imagine being bonded
00:30:16
Speaker
But anyone else think it was, he was, I mean, when he was like, Oh, so what's involved?
Rituals and Wisdom on Fatherhood
00:30:20
Speaker
And then she's like, we have to be bonded for six days. I feel like his expression was like, she's starting to behave and her body language is a bit insectoid. And I'm sort of imagining them in some sort of weird hive situation, like the queen from alien. Yeah, I think I'm just as I told you before, people have word to don't have any sex.
00:30:44
Speaker
I don't know if we've skipped over the more disgusting parts of this as well, like where she's got some weird mucus on her hand. It comes out of her forehead. And she's like... It's young. She's got a wedding and makeup did a great job. Yeah, I do. I think we're meant to be slightly disgusted. Yeah, it doesn't really... It's really more about the childbearing. This is not about sex.
00:31:11
Speaker
It's a mid-90s production that cannot be sex. And also, I had this thought at some point when I saw her, she looks like she's already suffering and she's sweating. I was like, wow, this really seems to put menopause in perspective. Menopause gets a lot of, I don't know, screen time at the moment. And I was like, wow, this looks pretty intense.
00:31:37
Speaker
But then we have this nice scene in The Messle where Tuvok arrives for lunch and begrudgingly accepts whatever Nina is supposed to offer. And then Nina goes over to him and is like, what's it like being a father? That's true. And it's a very deep and almost intimate scene because
00:31:54
Speaker
I think Tivok takes one look at Neelix and sort of sees through him, but almost in seeing through his anxiety he also sees through to a slightly deeper place where actually he's sort of secretly thrilled by the prospect, I think, or at least Neelix is of the possibility of being a father, or at least I get that impression.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean, he definitely sees through Neelix, and he's like, I can only tell you that if you have doubts, you shouldn't do it, but it's also very, very rewarding. And then, I don't know what you thought, Jenny, but Neelix just assumes that he doesn't have a boy. He doesn't even consider him a girl. You have an awful lot to tell a boy. What if it's a girl? And the two looks like, why would you treat her any differently? And her having a father is very valuable to her.
00:32:51
Speaker
I don't know how you felt about Neelix's assumption there. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, it was a good response from Tuvok, wasn't it? Yeah, I did really like this scene. I don't know why. I mean, I feel like Tuvok was just answering Neelix's questions based on his own personal experiences, which is what you'd expect from Tuvok.
00:33:15
Speaker
And it was interesting though, the answer started out with, if you have any doubts at all, you shouldn't do it. And somehow at the end of this conversation, Neelix has come round to the idea, like this is like the exact opposite of the advice you were given, number one piece of advice, which is quite funny. But no, I don't know, I guess I just enjoyed the reflections on fatherhood from you. Yeah.
00:33:45
Speaker
Oh yeah, we find out actually he has four children, three boys and a girl. No wonder he's so happy to be on the far side of the galaxy would be a typical joke to make. Oh, he did say it. You can see he's sad that he's not. He's so far away from them. So that is nice. Then we go back to the bridge and they're ready to initiate some kind of that tog scoop or inverted pulse to try escape from the swarm.
00:34:11
Speaker
uh, which I think seems to work at first. Honestly, some of this just went over my head, but then the life form start attaching themselves to the warp naysails. And then they're joined by a much larger version of the life form. I mean, like sex, a thorn slug as I've referred to it. I mean, I was like, why is it so much larger? Are these little ones partners for that big one or babies of the big one? Leaping to the assumption throughout the various scenes coming that they are
00:34:38
Speaker
having sex with the big one, as opposed to, say, feeding off it. So I would like to understand the reason for that assumption. I find it presumptuous. Yeah, I agree, because I, your initial thought would be there is babies. Exactly. Okay, Jenny, act four.
00:35:05
Speaker
I guess if we want to just interject, we'll just put up our hand. Oh, it's just interrupt. Yeah, yeah. Interrupt me. Interrupt me. I will strategically pause. So, unsure is the exact reason for the size difference, which is what we were just saying. Okay, so they were also unsure. Yes, it wasn't just us. It wasn't just us. Jane, which decides to continue out of the swarm, hoping that the creature on the naysayer will drop back and rejoin the swarm. However, instead, the larger creature moves with them.
00:35:33
Speaker
generating an electrically-charged plasma stream in J&M's storage space. Dodgy. Dodgy understanding of PAC behaviours, especially when it's...
Strategic Decisions and Biological Insights
00:35:46
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think the only thing that was interesting here was Apilano was like, let's destroy them, chain waste life. Yeah. We're the intruders here. Let's just try. She's still trying to problem solve in a more environmentally compassionate way, I would say.
00:36:01
Speaker
I love how Balana plays the typical sort of Klingon conflict, that particular side of the conflict in this. She's the awful force. So the crew realise that the smaller creatures are attracted to Voyager's emissions and theorise that Voyager has been mistaken for a potential mate. So those emissions are essentially what the crew likens them like to its pheromones.
00:36:32
Speaker
Well, actually, I didn't really realise at the time, but I feel like all that research about pheromones came out around this time. You know, when people were like, oh, if you put your sweat on a guy, he'll like... Ew! That worked! It was disgusting! I mean, the pheromones exploded, and it's all to do with your mitochondria and genetic match, so you're trying to match with people that are not too close. Like, all those theories and stuff maybe came out. Did anyone on this call ever try that or have that done to them? Because... Ew.
00:37:03
Speaker
No, but I read all about it and it was fascinating that it was in one, one of the one I read anyways in mice. Um, they discovered that the smell, um, was actually indicating to the mice that they had compatible immune systems, like immunohistocompatibility. Um, and it made sense. It was an evolutionary trait because.
00:37:28
Speaker
they'd be attracted to those that would enhance their immune system so their offspring would have an even stronger immune system than the two individuals that were mating. Click a little mouse. Yeah, quite fascinating.
00:37:42
Speaker
And I have a mouse, but let's not get into that. Let's talk about Red's mouse. I haven't seen it since I got back. So hopefully it's occasional visitor, occasional visitor. I'm like, no, no, shoo, shoo. I'm watching TV. I mean, we could lend you our cat when we get it. Yeah, I mean, I was like, this is another reason to get a cat.
00:38:07
Speaker
Actually, our friend whose name begins with V has a cat that they would be very happy to kidnap from their street and give to you on a semi-permanent basis so it never invaded their house again. I can't go to Surbiton and start stealing people's cats, Jamie. You wouldn't have to do the stealing. The friend in question would
00:38:30
Speaker
frankly, capture and transfer the creature themself. Ick, cos it's not the friend in question's cat. Yes! I mean, is it someone else doing the stealing? Are you stealing red, really? You have a mouse. Come on. Less of the moral quibbling, more of the, you know, mouse eradication.
00:38:50
Speaker
Jenny, I think you want to say something about mice. Oh, I was going to tell a little story. Yes. It might be a really boring little story, but it's just a very London story. Like the first place I ever lived in when I moved to London was obviously like, you know, a little bit, a little bit rundown, a little bit rough. And obviously you had a mouse problem because most of them do. And it got to the stage where we just sat, you know, in the living room watching TV after dinner.
00:39:15
Speaker
Not only does one mouse run out from one end of the room, exact same moment, another mouse runs out from the other corner of the room, they zoom across and they they bag into each other, into the room, squeak, spin around and run back. This is the stage that it's got to. That is the greatest story and honestly that makes me feel better because I never saw any mice for like the first four years that I lived here.
00:39:41
Speaker
Although the previous people, I found evidence of like mouse trap thingies, but they looked like ancient. And then a few months ago, I started seeing mice, like, well, a mouse. I'll be watching TV and just see this movement and be like, did I imagine it? They're kind of like using my passage. It's like a thoroughfare to get from wherever they're going. So I was like, what is happening here? Then I found, I kind of found an area where maybe they had gotten, well, I followed a mouse's sword where I got out. So I patched that all up.
00:40:10
Speaker
And I got there, I got the high frequency plug that plays the equivalent of classical music for mice to keep them away. And then I didn't see any mice again for ages. And then I'm just sitting on my couch. Oh, this is what just before I'm about to go to Cape Town. I'm just sitting on my couch with my head near the window and I suddenly see a mouse climbing up my curtain. And because it was so close, I like screamed. Even that's like a tiny mouse.
00:40:36
Speaker
And then over like, then I thought this was like kind of all happening before I left. So, but then I, I got to the stage, it was just a few nights where I was like, okay, I mustn't scream because if I scream, then I lose all control of the situation. And I need to understand where these mice are coming from or this mouse.
00:40:54
Speaker
I got to the stage where I'd be just watching TV on my couch and it comes in and now I see it. I'm like, oh, okay. And then it runs under my Christmas tree. I'm like, okay, I can just hang out under the Christmas tree for now. But then it started like coming around the room closer to me. I'm like, no, shoot, back, back. And then it like runs back out. And my theory was- Were you worried about the mess with cheese cubes on it?
00:41:16
Speaker
No, but my theory was I did put out like this humane mousetrap but I only had like one or two nights to like use it before I left but I thought because I live alone and I just in the evening sit on my couch and watch TV that I guess it's like it thinks no one's around so it's all exploring but you live in a house and then it happened and two mice so that makes me feel
00:41:36
Speaker
slightly better for some reason about my life my lifestyle i don't know why do you know what red when you said um you know you said you were not going to scream you were just going to be calm because you wanted to see where the mouse was coming from i was just imagining you sitting down to have a discussion to understand where the mouse is coming from where it was coming from emotionally emotionally
00:42:06
Speaker
Well, I think our relationship was approaching that level of intimacy, to be honest, because it was like, I'd be like, no, I'm in the living room now, you leave, you can come back later. I think we can all appreciate where the mouse was coming from emotionally then if you kept ostracizing it that way, Red. Well, I just also started to get into this, like, fear that maybe it was like a small rat, and I was just relieved actually to see it was a mouse.
00:42:32
Speaker
Okay, right. I'm going back to the... Yes, thank you. Right, that was a fun detour. In sickbay, Neelik shares with Kess that he wants to be a mate.
00:42:45
Speaker
and the father to the child. But before they make a test to go through this ritual, so it gets even weirder and even still disgusting. As part of the ritual, the doctor has to take the place of where her father would generally be. Massaging her feet until her tongue swells. Yes.
00:43:12
Speaker
And again, there's a little hint of jealousy from me, like, because he doesn't want the doctor massaging Kess's feet. Very strange. And then in the sick bay, the doctor seems fascinated by the biologic aspects of the ritual, which I guess is understandable from a biological interest perspective. Kess asks the doctor whether she's doing the right thing by going ahead to having a child. So she's starting to question things now.
00:43:41
Speaker
and Kest was missing her father and so she's asking the doctor of his guidance and says instead but obviously the doctor could only offer... statistical support could we take a moment to appreciate the nature of the statistics of what he gives her which is effectively just telling her about various species one of which if you get pregnant before 40 you're put to death was literally all he said about
00:44:08
Speaker
And also, I don't know, Jenny, he mentions the Breen. And I just remembered the Breen from Deep Space Nine. They're not great. So I didn't really pay attention to how often they procreate, but I was like, Oh, the Breen. I can't remember them. They, they, cause I watched the last episode of recent kind of, they like those.
00:44:26
Speaker
They'd like to have a helmet that looks almost like a dog face shape, and they just help the... I think they get employed to help the changelings destroy Deep Space Nine. So the changelings destroy Deep Space Nine then, right? Is that a spoiler?
00:44:40
Speaker
No, I'm just saying that they want many health factors. It sounds like a spoiler there, Red. A spoiler is like 20 years too late. What was that, Jenny? I think if it's a spoiler it's like 20 years too late. Yes, I mean, I can't be worried about that. We must protect the sanctity of the plot line at all costs and all causes, Red. We both know the principles behind which we stood up to do this podcast.
00:45:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. Well, I just want to quickly say in this scene, I just thought it was interesting when Kez admits that it was kind of easier when Niex was so resistant. Did you? I just liked that moment because she was like, well, when he was blocking her, then she really wanted it, I guess, because she didn't really have to make a decision. And now she has the freedom to actually make. I think it's insightful how the relationship dynamic within a couple is so orientated at the other's view. And often it
00:45:31
Speaker
it sort of points to the possibility of losing one's own perspective. If one is too orientated by the other party in exactly the way she says, because of the fact it was A, not a decision, and B, just a case of overcoming resistance, which was far higher than her own, she wasn't actually really thinking about what she herself wanted. Yeah. Yeah, and she almost
00:45:59
Speaker
I mean, this is a very broad topic and something that I think about, but sometimes I think people form their whole, not necessarily like in couples, but their personality or their approach just in opposition to something else and not really making their...
00:46:13
Speaker
decisions that are best for them. I think it is, I can understand it as well, that feeling because it's I think especially, what's
Motherhood Reflections and Conflict Resolution
00:46:25
Speaker
the word, I don't know, the right word for it, but especially relevant I guess to women because there's an age point isn't there where you're starting to think, you know,
00:46:35
Speaker
this is a decision I now have to make, and if I make the decision to have kids, is that because I actually want them or is it because there's the fear of that decision being taken away from me? And I think this kind of represents that to some extent. Yes, definitely. Because, yeah, I mean, she, yeah, she says, am I just doing this because I can? Which is another aspect.
00:47:01
Speaker
But again, I just have to congratulate her because she's really asking herself the tough questions before making this decision. Yeah, because she's like, I'm not even grown up yet. And I'm capable of taking on such a huge responsibility. But yeah, it's a good scene again. I think it's also telling that she's comfortable with the doctor being in loco parentis for her. That's quite meaningful.
00:47:33
Speaker
Earlier, I think Neelix was like, why do you want him? He's only one human and she's like, well, he's real enough to me or he's very real to me. But in the middle, in the middle of all this introspection, there is drama. There is. Yes. On the bridge, Chikote suspects the larger lifeform, Macy Wilger, as a potential rival mate. So they decide to initiate an impulse burst to try to escape.
00:47:57
Speaker
this backfires as the creature becomes more aggressive. It's interesting though because the interpretation of, oh it's a rival mate, let's fight it off, comes from Janeway, which is a very alpha and alpha sort of way of managing the situation.
00:48:20
Speaker
Oh, she yeah, proposed that how they went straight to that, which I guess makes sense. I mean, a lot of rival chain chain chain ways, particularly strict at saying, whatever we do, we're going to try and avoid harming this creature, which is going to butt heads with it. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, I jumped out of town. I know there's a structure and I need to respect it.
00:48:46
Speaker
Oh no, no, no, that wasn't it! I am done, I'm done. Please don't hurt me. They beat me after the episode if I don't follow the structure. If I cough twice, it's a call for help. You, Jamie, you're in charge here. Okay, great. Wow, I'm doing Act 5 too. Oh, I feel so powerful. Jamie, you realise that the mute button is like a radio cough button? Sorry, that there's a what?
00:49:16
Speaker
That the mute button can be used as the equivalent to a cough button on the radio recording. That's a good point. I just heard him coughing and didn't even realise. Anyway, act five. So still on the bridge, the crew debates the correct course of action, if there is one. They decide to retaliate in a similar fashion. I bump it back, but it doesn't work.
00:49:40
Speaker
Violence never works. Shikite proposes its time-to-change strategy, so in opposition to Barna, who is getting, I think, more and more irate and aggressive, showing her Klingon tendencies. Shikite wants to act submissively to acknowledge superiority of the creature, so Voyager decides to mimic the smaller creatures. What they're doing is changing colour and rolling over. Yeah.
00:50:09
Speaker
And I think in this scene, Chikote describes Voyager as a sexual rival, which I thought was hilarious as a first time for everything. I mean, like Voyager the ship. So I thought that was funny. Yeah, I can't remember also how they
00:50:27
Speaker
They basically came up with some quite creative thinking in terms of how they were gonna mimic the smaller creatures by making Voyager appear a different color. And submissive. Well, the rolling over aspect's quite straightforward, I guess. They just rolled Voyager. Oh yes, I'm sorry, I did not make any notes of that. I think like blossom photons or torpedoes or something. Yeah, I don't remember. Something like that, yeah. It was like a purple or blue. Plasma steam, something of that description.
00:50:55
Speaker
Can I ask a question? If you're like Star Trek Voyager, the ship itself, right? And you're like apparently the baddest thing in the sector, right? How bummed out would you be the first time ever that you got considered a sexual rival? You got made to act submissive and submit by your crew so that you couldn't be like the dominant starship sexual object of the quadrant?
00:51:27
Speaker
I think I would be okay with that because I don't have any feelings as a boy at the start of. Also, it's not a sentient being. I just thought I didn't think it was real. I think that purpose is to get a leg. I think one can have an opinion that every ship is a lady and every ship is a sentient being, but yes.
Comparisons and Crew Reflections
00:51:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, I like that. I like ladies. Like Moya. Moya would be pissed. I mean, I'm a bit... Moya in...
00:51:59
Speaker
So what does Moya come from? Moya is a world ship in an early 2000 slash late 90s sci-fi series called Farscape. That was it. Whose name we have mentioned earlier on this call. Not this call, but this podcast. Shout out to the classics.
00:52:24
Speaker
Australian characters and Australian sci-fi, absolutely epic. Have you, yeah, yeah, read this one, you go watch. Okay, fast forward. I mean, it's, it's hysterically funny on a number of levels, not excluding costume, cast, acting, concepts, plot lines, Australian accents in outer space. And yeah, but not excluding those, but it is incredible.
00:52:56
Speaker
She does have comedy value. There's a lot of Australians in it. We're not going to call it acting, but they're in it. Well, I was about to be very mean about Australians, so I caught myself there. I'm going to have to end this episode anyway. I was also saying Australians can act, just the Australians in that particular sci-fi franchise. I think there are lots of Australians who can act like Nicole Kidman. She's very good.
00:53:27
Speaker
On that note, the creatures begin to detach from Voyager, and so they are able to move away from the life form without further issues. I just have to say, the funniest line of the episode I thought was from Tuvac where it says, if it appears we have lost our sex appeal, Captain. I disagree. I think the funniest line of the episode is when the captain says, when I need to find out about mating behavior, I'll go to you two. I'll go to you two, Kote. Oh, yes.
00:53:57
Speaker
cringe, blatant, come on. And what does Tricote do? Yeah. I'm trying to go for the the American audience with my British accent raconteurship of the words smolder. Anyway, carry on.
00:54:26
Speaker
Okay, in the mess hall, Neelix is preparing food and Kez offers to help. We found out that Kez decided not to conceive, and that perhaps Neelix is actually disappointed about that. Kez says that they might have another chance, though, in the future, as it was a false regime brought on by the life forms.
00:54:45
Speaker
So he's very excited about the course of the year and having a daughter. As is Kez by his insistence at Biaduct, she's touched by this and by his desire that it look exactly like Kez. And she kisses him passionately when he says that.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yes, and I wasn't creeped out, so that's why I say I'm acclimatised. I was sort of creeped out, to be honest with you, given the various lifespans, and I wanted to look just like you, but I'll take it in the way in which it was intended to be pitched by the producers. Yeah, I mean, I think you're right about the intention of it, but for me, I'm similar to Jamie, I find the whole, I want it to look exactly like you, and then he snogs a face off. I'm like, why?
00:55:32
Speaker
Is he refreshing the workforce as well? He's on board now. To do that, why are you pulling that face? Describe the face for the listeners. Yes, I can't even do that. But Jamie left disgusted, I guess. Neelix is involved. And then in Jamie's ready room, my captain is completing a log.
00:56:02
Speaker
And this is the, I like this little twist at the end. It's like a precursor to the future voyages of Ensign Waldman arrives, which I actually, I don't, have we actually mentioned her much in this? She's around in this. Yeah, she's around. She is on the bridge and she is the one who is kind of giving some information about the life forms right in the beginning. Yeah, sorry, that book got cut out, I think. Cause I mentioned it when we had that technical era. But she was like giving details on
00:56:29
Speaker
the life forms and that they have no digestive system. It was like at her station where they were kind of discussing this. And then later on, I think she was proposing some theories as well about. Yeah. So they sort of brought her in. How it would react. So she was seen a few times before now. Oh, I think I just got cut out. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, that was very weird. You kind of like went and fast forward.
00:56:54
Speaker
Yeah. Right at the end. Oh, gosh, quick. So anyway, she enters Jamie's room, seemed a bit flustered. And she says that she is in fact pregnant. And Jamie offers her congratulations. And I mean, I think and someone was explaining that she didn't actually know she was pregnant when she came on board. And it was supposed to be like a two week voyage rather than how many years ends up being. You know, she wants to have the baby.
00:57:22
Speaker
i think this is a bit where i was a little bit confused is it that her husband he's on deep space nine he's not on board yeah he's alive he's just on deep space oh is he on deep space nine that means that that implies death no i didn't i'm not sure what time zone timelines they're on
00:57:44
Speaker
But I think she's like, she does say he's the baby, I guess, is what she has left because they're so far away from her. Oh, yeah, you're right. That's what she means. I think I got the impression when she said is all I have left of him made me think. Stranded in space. And to add to that, this is the moment where we have the bouffant hair off.
00:58:11
Speaker
because I don't think I've ever seen Captain Janeway's hair be bigger than it was in this particular scene. And Ensign Wildman's hair is, if anything, even bigger. I genuinely worry if they get next to all those carrying those bad boys around the place. It's like two space life forms that are about to bump heads. Yeah, the Star Trek version of Bill Bailey realising that
00:58:37
Speaker
He shares his head with a small creature that inhabits it called Archie, that is his hair. Sadly, I do not get that reference, but hopefully someone is saying well. Jenny, but yes, I only think I want to say about that scene as I just thought, Captain Janeway, why do I always forget the actors names when I need to recall them to mind?
00:59:02
Speaker
Yes, thank you. Her face is just so good in this scene. She's getting the news because you can kind of see she's putting the dots together. What does it mean? It just shows everything. It shows she's absorbing this information from wild men. It's taking into account everything they've just been through, the fact that they've been discussing this very thing, the fact that she's very happy about this woman. I don't know. It's all there on her face. Very good. Yeah. So. 80. Oh, yes.
00:59:31
Speaker
Very good. Um, themes, any particular themes, jump out, I'll let you enjoy. Being a beast has to get out of trouble. Choices. Neelix. Oh yes. Puberty. Big hair. Really big hair.
00:59:57
Speaker
You only need to pick one. Jamie's covered in hell. I don't know. Well, I'd bless you if purple flowers as a food source. Okay, Jamie, cut your face. I'm committing to this, Rhett. As I said earlier, I think I just wish all human beings put as much thought into helping a child as everyone. I thought you were going to say I did into these themes.
01:00:25
Speaker
No. Wow. I mean, you just hear some stories and you're like, why, why did you bother having a child? Yeah. Everyone's behaving very responsibly. So, um, I thought that was good. Yeah. Janie, do you have anything to add to Janie's laundry list of games?
01:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like I've been past a bit of a poison challenge because Jamie's listed them all. I have none left. You can't expand. No, yeah, I mean, I obviously sort of wonder about procreating and whether to do it and can...
01:01:01
Speaker
are you able to and windows of opportunity to do it and it's a big decision and all the sort of pros and cons involved in it and that whole sort of debate and reasoning from different characters. I really enjoyed all that. It was all quite thoughtful. And then there was a bit of sort of biology or zoology, animal behavior kind of stuff in the life form, so it was all quite fun.
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point. There's also space sex logs, which we haven't covered as a theme. There's more characters than other themes. I don't know if it's a theme, but sort of didactic tale of, you know,
01:01:49
Speaker
in the animal world, you think something's attacking you, but it might not be attacking you. Quite often it's actually just maybe defending it's young or it's doing something to try to save itself. So it isn't necessarily always the best response to fight back. Yeah. Definitely. This does remind me, but this is a bit of a tangent. Maybe it's like a satire account online.
01:02:18
Speaker
social media but there's this guy who like seems to be promoting the idea that bears are harmless they just want to be your friend please let this be satire or if this is real and like just a few months time there's going to be like we're sorry to report that this guy's not dead because honestly but my problem is that people might see us and think okay we can make friends with the bears i'm like maybe you maybe you could land up having a very pleasant non-death experience with the bear but that's just down to chance not down to like
01:02:49
Speaker
I don't know why someone I'm at once I was at in Zambia and the hotel I was staying at had these giraffes that would just walk through the grounds and some tourists went up to them and standing behind them and standing I was like
01:03:05
Speaker
I don't think you should do that. Did anything happen to them? I mean, they, well, nothing happened, but, and I guess they were in the grounds, but you can also get wild, like maybe they are more tame, but I just think you should respect nature. I mean, I want to cuddle everything I see, but just to say, but I accept that I might eat more. I mean, I, when I was like eight, I went on holiday to Kenya, and one of the very first things we did was go to a giraffe petting zoo, and it was the best thing ever.
01:03:36
Speaker
Yes. When I was in Cape Town now, sorry, we all get to stop here, I went to this kind of animal sanctuary and they have this like, like a few times a day, you can go into this monkey enclosure and then all these little common squirrel monkeys or something just run all over you. Well, they just jump onto you as you're walking past. Obviously, there's like a guy putting food on his head so he jumps on your head. But they're so cute.
01:04:00
Speaker
I always agree with you about observing it in its natural environment and not, you know, trying to hug it. But I always feel that way when I go to Richmond Park. And in summer in particular, you've got crowds of people around them within two metres of them taking their photos.
01:04:26
Speaker
Jenny, I have seen parents let their kids chase the deer. Their toddlers and their five-year-olds or ten-year-olds, they are chasing the deer. I've just seen it. I'm just like, I can't watch. This can't end well. Well, yeah, poor deer, but also possibly poor child.
01:04:49
Speaker
I do worry about the general intelligence. Well it's okay because we come here to judge them all. Yes. And I live in the idealistic world of Star Trek. Yes. Does anyone have a star player? I don't know if I can think of one but I mean I'll have to nominate someone. I mean I think Kes puts up with a lot.
01:05:13
Speaker
I think the giant space slug does well. One of the few things to have a head on confrontation with Voyager in this quadrant and walk away. Yeah, giant space slug for me. Good nomination, accepted.
01:05:30
Speaker
I think mine's going to be Tvok. I really enjoy that little conversation he has with Alex about fatherhood. And I feel like in later episodes, January is a close second, but I feel like the later seasons we get down, like Jamie's going to be mine every episode. I have to choose someone else right now. I think Tvok is a worthy nomination for sure. If only for eating Neelix's food with a straight face.
01:06:00
Speaker
Um, I, yeah, I think this was a good episode for kiss. So, um, she did actually act a moment. So I was like, wow, she's doing really good job interacting. And as you said, Jamie, that kind of adjusting and becoming a bit more like, as you said, she's actually been taken over by this biological process, a bit more animalistic, uh, I kind of frightened.
01:06:25
Speaker
And she's like losing control of herself. And yeah, she's like, yeah, I will nominate Kaz as my star player. Probably write someone, did she? Yes. She'll do a lot of work in that. She does, she does. But it was like, there were kind of two strong separate storylines. So it's like almost like it was not like just a focus on one person, which, but she is good. Okay. Any final thoughts? I think we've done it. We've, we've smashed this one at the park.
01:06:57
Speaker
Very good. And on that note, two thumbs up from Jenny. I will press stop. Thank you and bye.