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Is Gentle Parenting Going To Save Our Kids?
33 Plays2 months ago
Welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen Podcast! In this episode, we discuss the challenges of navigating modern parenting trends while being constantly bombarded with advice from parenting "experts." One of the most popular trends today is gentle parenting, which emphasizes empathy, respect, and understanding. But is it too much for parents to maintain? Should parents just trust their instincts and follow what feels right for their families, rather than trying to keep up with every new trend? We explore the pros and cons of gentle parenting, the pressure of expert advice, and how to strike a balance between modern parenting styles and intuitive parenting. Join us as we delve into the challenges of staying grounded while raising children in today’s advice-heavy world.
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Links to sources referenced in this episode:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/gentle-parenting-style-hard-on-parents-rcna176917
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
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Transcript
Navigating Parenting Advice
00:00:24
Speaker
They say babies don't come with a manual. So why are there so many? As a newer parent myself, there certainly isn't a shortage of parenting advice out there, and it is exhausting.
00:00:38
Speaker
How do we navigate one of the most important roles many of us will fill when inundated with oftentimes conflicting advice from experts? Is it time to drown out the noise and trust our guts?
Podcast Introduction
00:00:50
Speaker
Welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen podcast.
00:01:02
Speaker
Hello! And welcome. Hello! Hello!
00:01:09
Speaker
What? Hi. yeah Never fails to shock me. I mean, so this is Steph, and that was Manny. Baby, baby, baby, baby. Don't you know that you're so fine?
00:01:26
Speaker
Ooh! I like that. I also have here with us the illustrious Karen. What is illustrious being? I don't know. why I don't know, but I like it. I feel i don't know, but she's it.
00:01:42
Speaker
She's it. That's it. You that girl. Here I am. Well, welcome everybody to today's episode.
Naming Kind 'Karens'
00:01:50
Speaker
Today we're going to dig into some of the many, many, many parenting trends out there.
00:01:56
Speaker
But first, we got to know. are you calling Karen? I want to know. you were like I don't know where all this song knowledge is coming from. You are a straight up jukebox right now. All right. Jukeboxes. Oh, I love jukeboxes. They do, but they're like the MP3 version. It's not right either. Yeah.
00:02:17
Speaker
boxes oh i love tu boxes they do but they they they're like the m p three version he's not ready either I don't understand. ah hearing of the no Explain yourself. What are you trying to say?
00:02:35
Speaker
Literally, it's only going to get worse. Why don't you mute her mic? Okay. So hi um Okay. So my Karen of the week.
00:02:50
Speaker
I, um this story takes place January 20th. I don't know why I have to get the date, um but it is right before my opening of my new business.
00:03:03
Speaker
And um I'm at Home Depot shopping for some plants because my space has a bunch of natural light. And um instead of getting like decor I realize bringing in plants would be a nice way to like keep it green and fresh so I'm shopping at Home Depot excuse me I have a bunch of plants in my cart um because I was doing um also something with students where they're planting. i have a propagated wall in here.
00:03:34
Speaker
And so they're planting some vines in the propagated wall. And when they graduate from my program, they get to take their vine with them and plant it wherever in the community or at their home that they, yeah.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. God damn it. You're so sweet. Yeah. Thank you. um Do you just want to end there? Yep. And scene. Wow.
00:03:56
Speaker
um But i I was shopping around, had all these plants in my car and this woman stops me and is like, excuse me, are you a gardener? And I was like, like metaphorically.
00:04:10
Speaker
And she was like, well, like I have
00:04:14
Speaker
and she was like well like i have All these plants in my house that are like as high to the ceiling and I'm trying to get, give them away.
00:04:27
Speaker
Would you like them for free? And I was like, yeah, yes, absolutely. Done deal. And um I've told her about what it was that I was doing, what my program is, that this is all about service and everything that she's doing is like so kind and really like is in alignment with our mission and our philosophy.
00:04:47
Speaker
And so she's like, yeah, just text me your text me your number and um here's my number or whatever. And I'll send you my address and you'll just come and pick them up whenever you're ready.
00:04:58
Speaker
And so i was like, okay, great. Thank you so much. What's your name? was like, oh, it's Karen. Yeah. ah And I was like, of course it is. But I wanted to bring that story to the pod because I've had a couple of encounters like that of just like women with kindness, like white women in particular who have been like kind and generous.
00:05:23
Speaker
And I wanted to pose what is their name for for when that happens,
Empathy in Service Roles
00:05:28
Speaker
right? So we... We have our chats. We have our Karens. And can like what what can we call these these women who surprise us?
00:05:39
Speaker
I'm thinking about that ah Instagram viral video of the woman who's like, hey, hey, what are you listening to? Yes. And it was like the almost Karen moment, but it turned out to be like, right.
00:05:51
Speaker
Like go Jessica. Yeah. No, no. um that was see That was my fake name when I was in college. when Jessica? Like when a guy wanted in my name. Yeah, it was Jessica for me.
00:06:04
Speaker
ah Tiffany, Steph, who were you? Stacy. ac Stacy. Stacy. I love that we all. Jessica. No problem. We were all like, boom, that's the name.
00:06:16
Speaker
because people always mess my name up and say Stacy. So I just leaned into it. Oh, really? Oh, really? People mess your name up? Oh, really? I know. You're right. My name i'm weirdly always is correct.
00:06:28
Speaker
So speaking of, what do we call these women? I wanted to go with Susan. Should we? Susan? Susan. No, Susan from accounting. No, that's not going to work for me.
00:06:39
Speaker
That's like a thing. Susan from accounting. No, it's not. It is. that well I don't know. It's just like a. She's stuffy. She's lame. She's boring. She's nice and stops you at Home Depot and gives you her plants. No, that's not Susan. Turns out that's fucking Karen. yeah um um
00:07:02
Speaker
Did you pick them up yet, Manny? Yeah. she gave me Are they behind you right now? No, this one is actually from our dear friend Celia. She sent that to me. Oh, Celia. So sweet. Yeah, it's so luscious. And then this one was actually from our home.
00:07:21
Speaker
But yeah, they're like, there's plants everywhere. You can't, yeah, we'll take a tour one day. We can't put them all in the background. We can't put them all in the background. Although next time we record, I will. Thank you, Jennifer.
00:07:33
Speaker
I'm just trying. I'll just keep trying new names until one of them feels right. It has to be older, though. Oh, why? You see what I did there? Because people can't be kind? No, because Karen is like... Oh, it's on older me?
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. What are saying? It has to ah You know exactly what I'm saying. she just said it. She said it. I don't know. You want to go? yeah My sister's name is Linda.
00:08:01
Speaker
That's kind of old. Oh. And is she nicer than you? Yeah. That's it. She is. Yeah. Pretty, pretty good odds. What if it's Ruth? Oh, that's my mom's name.
00:08:13
Speaker
Oh, Ruth. Ruthann. I love this. Well, let's put out a poll. Mm-hmm. We'll put out a poll to our five listeners. No, on Instagram. Do it.
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. To our five people who only comment. I'm talking about Brienne.
00:08:39
Speaker
Thank you, Bree, for listening. Don't forget. Don't forget. And for our other listeners, if you want a special shout out on this podcast, you've got some work to do you got but You've got you gotta to work in those comments. Okay. comments buts Some girl named Karen seems to comment on you.
00:09:03
Speaker
I wonder who that is.
00:09:06
Speaker
are you calling Karen this morning? She's like, move along, ladies. All right. I'm throwing way back. um I was trying to think of like, yeah, chads.
00:09:19
Speaker
So I got a chad for you all this week. um You do? I do. um Anyways, Chad, so this was years and years ago, like a few jobs ah ago that I had.
00:09:35
Speaker
And i was out to dinner with like my team. And Manny is disgustingly eating on camera right now. So go to our YouTube page and subscribe.
00:09:48
Speaker
No, that was just, anyways. I'm so hungry, sorry. So I was out to dinner with my team and it was like,
00:10:00
Speaker
A bunch of us like younger, lower level people and then this more senior person. And the more senior person was like leaving before we actually had dinner. We had had, I think, drinks and appetizers or something like that.
00:10:16
Speaker
and mean And he was leaving, and so he was going to get the bill and pay for that first portion before we had dinner, just to make it, like, easier for expenses, because he had
Evolving Parenting Trends
00:10:28
Speaker
more whatever.
00:10:30
Speaker
Anyways, so he asked the server if he could get the bill, because he was going. And she was like, um oh, like, is something wrong, you know, or, like...
00:10:45
Speaker
why you know why do you want the bill? And he's like, I am a paying customer and ah when I want to pay my bill, I should be able to pay my bill or something. Like he got... Wait, hold on. Weird, weirdly aggressive.
00:10:59
Speaker
And I... and i like I mean, really liked this guy. It was so, it was just like such a confusing moment. Genuinely like, um yeah, I still have um like, I still feel favorably about him, but that was this, just the weirdest moment for me of like, oh, there's like little demons in all of us. Little, little Karens as it turns out.
00:11:25
Speaker
And I, And it was like so immediately apparent to me that this this person had never worked in a service, you know, role. Never known what it's like to have to deal with patrons and stuff like that. Like, it was just the weirdest moment.
00:11:43
Speaker
And I, in my, like, desire for non-confrontation immediately was like, oh, he's just got to go and he's just going to pick up this first. We're staying and we're going to work on it everywhere. was so awkward.
00:11:57
Speaker
And yeah, and then and then he paid and left and we all gossiped about it, speaking gossip from last week. But anyways, it was just very uncomfortable and unnecessary. And I don't understand why people think that they, that like being a jerk is necessary at all so it's almost like i mean her question was legit like she was just making sure ah everybody was doing okay because he hadn't ordered food yet i'm assuming yeah she was like wait are we done or yeah yeah or are we continuing yeah and so he could have just simply said well i'd like to pick up this part and they're gonna stay and they're gonna stay
00:12:39
Speaker
It's pretty straightforward. So simple. It was, it was the weirdest. It was the weirdest. I was like, he's got something going on. Cause that is not a natural response to a very innocent question. It was just so weird.
00:12:51
Speaker
And I think everybody needs to hold a serving job at some point in their early lives and so that they can just have a little more empathy for those. Wait, where did you guys serve?
00:13:02
Speaker
I know where I served Lone Star Steakhouse and Saloon. Were you cleaning up peanuts? I started like three weeks after the peanuts stopped.
00:13:16
Speaker
There was like a lawsuit because somebody like slipped and fell on them or something like that. yeah And so it was clean when I started. i never served... serve Um, but my first job was, uh, at Grader's Ice Cream, A. Oh, that's, that's a service job for sure. And then B, I have been an inbound customer service representative, like taking calls.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yes. so And you're teacher. And I'm a teacher and I get beat up that way too. So fine.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah. Anyways. Anyway. Well, thank you ladies. Mad Max, if anyone cares. Oh, I forgot about that. We don't care though. my gosh.
00:14:00
Speaker
That was like quintessential Ohio State. Yeah. That was excellent. I know. Thank you for that. Oh, you're welcome. Yeah.
00:14:12
Speaker
Well, thank you for sharing. And those are our Cairns of the Week.
00:14:27
Speaker
All right, friends. So today's episode was titled Parent Trap on the infamous Google Doc. Yay, yay. Yay, yay.
00:14:39
Speaker
And as I was preparing for today's topic, I felt it so fitting because as a newer parent, I have a two, almost three-year-old. Parent trapped is how I often feel. Trapped by affect expectation, trapped by rules, and ultimately wanting to do right by my little girl.
00:14:56
Speaker
So I came across an article, which I will link in our links. Wherever you get those. I'm in charge of all technical things. She's not...
00:15:10
Speaker
ah for yeah she has not yeah Worst group partner. No, I'm just kidding. If you guys are in Mrs. No, I'm just kidding.
00:15:23
Speaker
do I just want you to know. Wow. but that I feel like really summarizes all of the recent trends and sheds some light into onto where they all come from.
00:15:35
Speaker
um This quote from the article really resonated with me. It says, but changes in parenting practices across generations are nothing new. One generation's parenting gospel often becomes another's pain point.
00:15:50
Speaker
Science backed advice that told baby boomers to withhold affection led to the popularization of genn X's attachment parenting style.
00:16:03
Speaker
Enter gentle parenting.
00:16:07
Speaker
I don't want gentle parenting to enter. um i know. Please leave. i not Well, the article is actually called wild gen Why Gentle Parenting is Proving Too Rough for Many Parents.
00:16:19
Speaker
And it says parents are trying to perfect an imperfect practice. So the article is critical of gentle parenting. And so we'll talk a little bit about that. um But first of all, um ah so gentle but parenting is where going start, because I feel like um as millennial parents, that is the parenting trend that I think has really inundated ah us and has driven conversations about what we should and shouldn't be doing. But why that article stood out to me is that that's definitely, um that I found it interesting that our gentle parenting is Gen X's attachment style and that's boomers withholding affection. So I found it interesting that it's saying that having this big parenting trend generationally is not new.
00:17:12
Speaker
it kind of stood out to me that like, you know, all groups of parents have some parenting style that is kind of pushed on your throat. um So that made me realize like there's going to be something else, you know, after this.
00:17:26
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Back, back, back, back, back the fuck up. Yeah. Our parents call it attachment or whatever. Well, no boomers attachment what style.
00:17:38
Speaker
Would our parents be boomers because Yeah, I think so. My parents are boomers. yeah and so Yeah. So I think boomers were told to withhold affection. So like the firm, the stern, the whatever.
00:17:53
Speaker
And that led to the ah parents. That led to this Karen right here. Yeah. The parents that were are just above us, so Gen X, they are the attachment style. So like the but yeah co-sleeping, all that stuff. And then millennials, which is where we are, is in that gentle parenting trend is what the article is saying. Got it, got it, got it. That's a good clarification, but I'm asking, did they name it?
00:18:25
Speaker
Like okay how we're like calling it something. Did they like know that's what the name was or? I think the attachment style thing is a pretty common term. I don't know at the time if they had named that, but like.
00:18:42
Speaker
That's a pretty common theory. Have you read a catchment-style book on parenting? Well, there were, yeah, there's been books for a minute. Yeah, there's been but books for a long time. That's what this article also mentions, that there are lots of like written articles about how to parent, and each generation has had a trend that has been prevalent or often discussed, or the measure measuring stick that parents use to determine if they're doing a political good job.
00:19:11
Speaker
Well, I know one thing for fucking sure. Blanche and Latricia, they ain't read no motherfucking parenting books. Okay? No. no Not their style.
Gentle Parenting Experiences
00:19:24
Speaker
Not their attachment. I think that that's what stood out to me is I kind of assumed like this, like, cause I'm not reading any books, but I'm on social media and hashtag gentle parenting and like all the videos and all that stuff. It just kind of pops up in your newsfeed. And then, you know, I feel like, know, I work with women who have kids around my age. And so they're like, well, have you tried this? And this is what I heard. and then you should blah, blah, blah, blah. And And so I just kind of assumed that this like, you know, all up in your business about how your parenting was new with the advent of social media.
00:19:59
Speaker
But it sounds like it's been going on Every generation of parents has been faced with some sort of you should do this instead of that. Yeah, I definitely hear that.
00:20:11
Speaker
Like, i I would agree with that. I didn't realize that. Yeah, that's what what drew me to this because i was like, oh, so everybody feels like every set of parents feels like they're being told what to do. um So I first want to start with gentle parenting because I think that it is everywhere when it I feel like it's the most common. So I wanted to define it first.
00:20:32
Speaker
um So as when I'm preparing for this, if I Google gentle parenting, this definition is what comes up. Um,
00:20:44
Speaker
It's basically parenting centered on empathy, respect, and connection. And so the goal is to have positive discipline instead of punishment to address difficult behaviors.
00:21:02
Speaker
um And so the goal is you are supposed to set clear and consistent boundaries. So it's not permissive. You're supposed to set clear boundaries, but you're supposed to model how to regulate your feelings, um validate the feelings that the child is having, and then like kind of coax them to understanding kind of thing.
00:21:23
Speaker
um which therein lies the challenge because the section, another section of this explaining it it says it can be challenging to remain calm in the moment of conflict, which is when you want parenting advice.
00:21:35
Speaker
You don't want it when they're being sweet. You want it when they're acting like lunatics. And it can be difficult to respond when a child doesn't change behaviors. So it just feels futile.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yes. So my first question is, um so my first question is um to you two, because we all three are parents.
00:22:01
Speaker
However, Karen, you're a little um ahead of me as far as age with your son, Maxwell and Monika, you have three and you have different age groups and all that kind of stuff. So I think that we can, you guys can really help me get through with it. I'm just kidding. This is not going to be a counseling session, but I just, I'm excited because we have some varying perspectives.
00:22:25
Speaker
But my question is, how has the discussion of gentle parenting impacted you parents, positive or negatively? Positively or negatively?
00:22:36
Speaker
um For me, oh ah it's interesting because a lot of things you said there... took me a lot of different places. um When I was envisioning myself as a parent, I certainly envisioned more of my parents' parenting style, probably because that's what I knew and that's how I was parented.
00:22:58
Speaker
And so like, like your comment about how the boomers, I'm going to get it wrong a little bit, but like the style was more like, um, you've got to let the kid figure it out.
00:23:14
Speaker
You know, like it's a little bit, it's just a little bit more of a distant parenting style. And I feel like, um, gentle parenting is like super, um, ah hands-on helicopter parent, whatever.
00:23:26
Speaker
I always envisioned myself being more of the former, but when we went through the adoption process, we had to take all these classes to help us you know understand the adoption process and attachment.
00:23:39
Speaker
Because i don't have the luxury of nine months in the womb of attaching with a baby. And so you're starting from a place of like nine months behind. And so it's really about making sure that that baby knows that if it cries or if it whines or whimpers,
00:23:54
Speaker
that you're there, you know, like that they don't have to worry about um abandonment or anything like that. And so that process taught me actually to be quite a different parent than I had expected would be.
00:24:07
Speaker
Like i would, I, he didn't co-sleep with us because Bob frankly, just couldn't sleep and he's not his best self when he's very tired. So, you know, Maxwell slept on his own, but anytime he made a sound, we were right there, you know, like, and I just didn't expect to be that parent at all.
00:24:27
Speaker
So it's bringing up a lot of these thoughts for me about my journey, um, Despite all of that, I would not consider myself a fully gentle parent.
00:24:39
Speaker
Because like you said, like when he's having his moments, it's really hard to be calm and soothing. i can do it I can do it for a really long time, way longer than Bob can. I'm i'm a pretty patient person.
00:24:52
Speaker
But then when... enough is enough, i like I lose my shit and I feel like it wouldn't be that bad, my outburst wouldn't be that bad if I hadn't been bottling it up as long as I was with my quote, gentle parenting style.
00:25:10
Speaker
So I'm often like debating this in my head like, is this the right answer? Because instead he sees like calm, cool Karen half or 90% of the time. And then randomly I'm like outburst yelling at him.
00:25:22
Speaker
Like that, that's not even authentic to who I am. It's just because I'm bottling that shit up as long as I am instead of like letting it out in little, little drips, you know? yeah So I don't, I do struggle with that. I don't like feeling, I don't like that feeling. I'm always super apologetic, but that feels shitty too.
00:25:39
Speaker
Like that's just going to be his memory of like, of like mom randomly yelling at him for seemingly the smallest thing and then being really sorry actually though they say like with gentle parenting will the willingness to a and so um sorry great sorry like Actually, what they ah yeah i say is... I don't mean to like... I just have been reading about this a lot. You took on full-on therapy.
00:26:18
Speaker
Oh my goodness. We lost her again. I'm going to have new internet.
00:26:29
Speaker
I guess. It's unreal. Well, Karen's back. And so I'm going to, well, actually you, I'm saying, well, actually,
00:26:40
Speaker
Thanks. And that's so annoying. um So my apologies. But, but I was responding to you saying, um you feel like Maxwell will have these memories of you like being calm and then just randomly losing your shit and then apologizing.
00:26:58
Speaker
And one of the, um, the Bennett, like one of the good, one of the things about gentle parenting in my reading about gentle parenting is that the willingness to apologize is healing and repairing.
00:27:10
Speaker
Like, so be able to say, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Cause I feel like, um, there's a generation of parents who would not say, I'm sorry when, when you mess up. And that's part of, uh, teaching your kids, um, how to handle their emotions and,
00:27:25
Speaker
And so I think that's probably one of my positive takeaways is that owning, like, I think back to, you know, me growing up, I don't really remember hearing I'm sorry very often, even when my parents were kind of popping off for no good reason, you know, even if they would admit that they were, they, I think maybe the parental structure they were used to is that, that kids should, aren't really owed that and I think good thing about gentle parenting is that it is saying they are human beings they are owed apologies and you know reckoning and understanding kind of a thing yeah
00:28:05
Speaker
So that the comfort I was saying a comfort in that I think there's some positivity in the I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, like the article saying like the, there's challenges to it because in the moment you can't, it's hard to remember to be like, I understand your feelings.
00:28:23
Speaker
Like while they're like screaming or throwing something. And, and so there's going to be days when you're not on, you know, like you said, it,
00:28:34
Speaker
pops off and then you but the apology is a good thing too okay what about i don't think i said pop off just i just want call back to season one more i wouldn't i don't know how to use that all right manny over to you um Well, I really appreciate you bringing in your experience about the parenting classes that you took with Maxwell before adopting Maxwell.
00:29:07
Speaker
I always really enjoy hearing that side of your story, and um i just really appreciate the perspective that you brought bring with that part of your journey. And, um, I think that's why it's so cool to have like such a diverse group of friends who have different, uh, various, um, trajectories to their, um, journey into motherhood. And like, I just, I'm always very thankful when you share, um, what that experience was like for you and Bob. So, um,
00:29:45
Speaker
I'm saying that because um I feel very annoyed by this question and not that you posed it but just this is just not my experience.
00:29:56
Speaker
um And i think what's really jumping out at me in this article is the claim of things being science backed.
00:30:08
Speaker
and Like, what the fuck does that mean? it's Like, how did you research this? And what science did you use? And who are the people that you used it on? And what?
00:30:22
Speaker
um It's like the one conversation we were having about how you can, like, find science to prove anything you want, basically. Quote science. Quote science. yeah Yeah. And I think that's what, like, I'm like...
00:30:34
Speaker
i don't This couldn't be any far removed from like just my experience growing up, what I'm experiencing right now as a parent and I don't know. i I hate to always default to like black families, are yeah but my household just looks so different then my a white peers household and the discipline looked so different. So as far as the only changes that I've made, and I know like I get made fun of in my family for this, but the only changes to the style of parenting that I've made is that I don't spank my kids.
00:31:12
Speaker
um and that was just a very conscious effort that I made um maybe it's has a lot to do also with the partner that I chose you know but um ah just that's the only like right or left turn that I have made in disciplining my children that I would like you know, that my family would be like, why don't you spank them? You know, like they're bad, you know. ah um And it's just a conscious effort that I mean. And I, you know, I think that there is it's speaking of science. I think that there is science that shows that like spanking is like not very good.
00:31:53
Speaker
um But I don't I don't know. And that's not why I do it, not because of science. I just do it because I, like, talk about, like, guilt and, like, feeling, like, the shame the feelings of shame and stuff that come after that. Like, I i just feel, like, and completely terrible after doing that. And I think that's what makes me um frustrated with this conversation because a lot of this conversation is about – um
00:32:21
Speaker
It feels like a lot of this conversation in that stratosphere is about how I look as a parent to those around me. So like onlookers. Yeah. Yes.
00:32:35
Speaker
And not necessarily about the deep emotional, psychological relationship that I have with my child and how that looks developmentally as they age.
00:32:50
Speaker
um So I just, I don't know. i'm i i wrote down the word tolerance um as Karen was talking when she was saying, like, you know, Bob,
00:33:05
Speaker
With sleeping versus you um when Maxwell was um a baby and then now like how that tolerance looks. And I just think this is such a nuanced conversation, especially if you are in a relationship where the other parent is.
00:33:21
Speaker
ah very present in the lives of your children, like no amount of advice is going to help you in that situation. um You are just going to have to show up authentically and honestly with your partner and um talk about how, like what the values of your own home are and how you are going to consistently apply them.
00:33:45
Speaker
um And that conversation is so hard because And so time consuming that I don't have enough in me to go out and look at research or advice for what the quote unquote experts are saying.
Balancing Parenting Approaches
00:34:01
Speaker
Like, I want to be the expert of my own home, you know? And so this is just so challenging. um I also grew up in a, with a mom who was a single mother and um worked her ass off.
00:34:18
Speaker
Like my mom and she wasn't just taking care of me. Like I have stumbled upon treasures of my mom showing up to court for her nephew because her brother died and she took her, she took her nephew in and she has these, she has me. I'm young. I was looking at the date.
00:34:43
Speaker
I'm probably five years old. She's showing up to court. for him. You know, she took my cousin in you know, there are so much to my parents' story that I'm just now starting to understand.
00:34:56
Speaker
And the more my kids age the more I understand why my parents were the way they were or my mom was the way that she was you know i'm like I think I've shared this that like youth sports and like having to drive and watch like a softball game where my daughter loses 21 to 7 hours away and I'm like
00:35:22
Speaker
ah But my mom, like, so while my mom did those things of like maybe quote unquote popping off when she was irritated and frustrated because she was a single mother who didn't have any help and the kids were doing do stupid fucking shit.
00:35:36
Speaker
And she didn't have the patience or the tolerance for it. She was at every single game an hour and a half away. three hours away for tournaments. I remember her being the stand. She had my face on a t-shirt, you know, like pat she no she course she did yeah and was there for me emotionally and so many ways. And like, I just don't, I don't, I don't know. i just think like, gosh, we just go outside of ourselves so often for the answers when it's like just there and your kids just really want to be seen by you.
00:36:09
Speaker
Yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like when you first started talking, I, again, for me as my, first of all, I have a two-year-old. So like, I think the, the one of the times when you're super bogged down with what you should should be doing is when a kid is an infant but because of like the sleeping and do they cry it out or do you pick them up all the time or do you breastfeeding? Oh my God, breastfeeding and exclusively, like all that stuff. So I felt like was just constantly, and this was so recent for me.
00:36:41
Speaker
um And so, you know, and I'm a scroller and on social media, particularly Instagram. And so there's this lady that I follow who I really, really like.
00:36:52
Speaker
And when you first started talking to me, I think I figured out why I like her is because she's a black woman. Oh yeah. I know who you're talking about. Yes. Destiny. Oh, so do I. Destiny. yeah anthony got yeah I think the reason I, I associate gentle parenting with what she says about gentle parenting.
00:37:10
Speaker
Cause she talks about it from, you know, repairing. She, she said that if you are repaired, then you can teach your kids to repair kind of a thing. And she talks about the fact, like, she's like, I'm not permissive, so don't get it twisted.
00:37:27
Speaker
And there's still rules and expectations, but um there it's about discipline. And she one of the things that she says is discipline is the root word is disciple, which means to teach. And so I was like, this lady, I love her, but you couldn I can tell that she comes from like no disrespect to the way i was raised as I'm a black woman. And this is, you know, I just relate to her because it oh there's slight tweaks.
00:37:57
Speaker
But there's still some, some traditions that, you know, black families that still exist. And so I don't feel like I'm abandoning everything that I ever learned as a black woman.
00:38:09
Speaker
Right. And, but I do resonate with some of the repair and the regulation, you know, like, well, that's, I think what I was trying to say of like, what gets what got passed down to me was like,
00:38:22
Speaker
that my mom was working this hard in this, yeah like, really fucked up system as a single person, single single mother. And, like, she didn't work that hard for me to have to hold on to her generational stuff, you know? like And so, like, I have to decipher, like, what in those moments that I'm getting, like, mad about is, like,
00:38:44
Speaker
from like our, our generational wounds or like, you know, and so when you're talking about like, I have to be repaired first, right. I, I just, that, that reminds me of that of like, like I'm also working on like breaking some of these things that my mom worked so hard for me to get here to have so that I don't have to be that way with my kids so that I can be fully present, you know? um,
00:39:11
Speaker
I don't know. And then other thing that you said, reminding me of a, um ah like, little, I don't, a meme, I guess it was, because I do have a teenager and like, our relationship is so different from the other two right now, you know, and admittedly,
00:39:28
Speaker
it's different because like, I'm a high school teacher, like I'm a middle school teacher, you know, so like, this is my jam. Like I like will completely just burn from my mind, the memories of raising infants, you know, but like get me inside of a middle schoolers brain and like, I'm there. Right. And so like, it's, it's so we're, we're in a really cool place right now, but I came across this meme that was like,
00:39:52
Speaker
My mom told me when I was like approaching like my hormonal years or like my preteen years, like you're going to you're going to go, you're going to start feeling a little bit differently in your body and you're going to start to begin to act crazy.
00:40:07
Speaker
The only thing is I'm better at it. so let's So let's both regulate our emotions so we can keep the peace. Stop me if I've told this story on this pod already, but like I vividly, I have this memory of...
00:40:25
Speaker
my sister going into high school um or maybe even late middle school. And she was like talking back to my parents and just being, you know, a, a, a high school girl, like a adolescent girl.
00:40:38
Speaker
And I remember being like, she left the room and and I was, I said to my parents, don't, I'm not going to be like that. Don't worry.
00:40:48
Speaker
And my name is Karen, God damn it. And it was swift, you know, like that was a lie. There's no controlling that crazy once you hit it. But I just remember like seeing it and recognizing it and then also experiencing it and not being able to stop it.
00:41:04
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's what I think is like the difference in like the two communities, right? It's like, like, absolutely no way would you ever catch me, like even thinking like, even if my hormones did tell me something like there.
00:41:19
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. No way. that i If I wanted to keep my lips and my teeth and my mouth.
00:41:31
Speaker
Period. No, there was no talking back. oh Remember when your the phrase in the black community is like, I'm not one of your little friends. I'm not one of your little friends. Love it. Yeah. There's so many of these that over the years we've talked about that I wish I had written down because like Maxwell needs some of that. I want him to have. Yeah.
00:41:50
Speaker
I also want to say some of that. That feels very liberating. It is. Say it. It is. I'm your little friend. I'm not one of your little friends. I love that. Don't talk to me like that.
00:42:01
Speaker
Oh, now we've incorporated. Don't talk to my husband like that.
00:42:07
Speaker
The other one thing you were saying there, though, Manny, about just like the different um like the different home dynamics between a black home and a white home like growing up.
00:42:19
Speaker
And it made me think, like, I i should not make overgeneralizations like this because usually that leads to bad things. However, here we go. I think it's probably pretty good odds that all of these parenting books and styles are written by white people. You guys are both, like, violently not.
00:42:46
Speaker
I'm like, who are the people that they... Yes, yes. Like Karen Smith, the doctor and Dr. Karen Smith. Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah. So anyways, that was just my immediate thought when you said that. And no surprise that a lot of these styles, therefore, don't resonate with the two of you. Well.
00:43:08
Speaker
Well, I, it does. I mean, have been really because of destiny.
Breaking Generational Cycles
00:43:14
Speaker
i just I really do try my hardest. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but at all ever, but I'm, I am finding some, like, like I like some of the things about the fact that, um, I don't know.
00:43:33
Speaker
But I think the thing with destiny is like what I was trying to say, not like pull it back to me or anything, but like, I think developmentally destiny is in a place where her kids are like the same age as my kids. Right. So it's easy to have that conversation about like, look, this is what like she was saying. Like she always talks about like how her daughter gets an attitude or whatever and like how that looks in the boundaries and stuff that you said. It's hard to do that with a two year old.
00:43:56
Speaker
Oh, no cause yeah. Elementally, they're not. It's impossible. Like critical thinking is like not fair. No, absolutely. I feel like though, um I feel like what she says is helping me maybe set the stage.
00:44:09
Speaker
yeah hope um And some of the like, you know, making eye contact and like listening and and, you know, a little bit of validation. And then here comes the no. I said no.
00:44:20
Speaker
yeah And that's not really against what they call gentle parenting because you are still to set boundaries. You are still to, you know, and you can't be all like,
00:44:32
Speaker
Kumbaya when you know they're throwing something at your head, you know, that's where we're at. That's two almost. Yeah. So. So I feel like there's just. But I think that there's a way that I'm relating to the way that this idea of gentle parenting is, had been presented to me because it was only through this lady that I was like, right yeah that I was hearing it. And there was so much, I recognize so much of what she grew up at. She was references, what it was like for her as a child being parented and how she wants to, um,
00:45:09
Speaker
be different or break some of the generational um trauma that she experienced and that has really resonated with me yeah
00:45:20
Speaker
yeah I think you know since we're like defining things and I don't want to get like too deep into the woods of this but like do you want to maybe set like Should we put some more ah language to what we mean by like generational trauma, generational wounds, like in the black community and what that looks like with discipline to like maybe give this conversation a little bit more texture?
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, um I mean, I, I didn't really. um like Like you said, Minika, the main thing I don't do is for sure I don't spank. There's spanking. And I think my older parents were like, you should spank them. The Bible says it, blah, blah, blah. There's like that religious aspect to it too.
00:46:03
Speaker
and um And just kind of ah because I said so, um you know the i think that that's kind of common. I don't know. what like What were you thinking, like to add context?
00:46:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think I was more...
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah, I was just thinking more about like, I guess this goes back to like conversations about like therapy and like access to like, you know, being able to express yourself and like being able to talk about the things that I guess I'm, I feel like I can now have a circle of friends and a community um and a space where I can talk about like the microaggressions and stuff that I felt at work so that I don't have to bring that home with me.
00:46:53
Speaker
where I feel like our parents didn't have that and they brought that home with them. And so a lot of it is a lot of the discipline was wrapped up in like what they were experiencing in and the outside world. And so that's why wrote down that word like tolerance that like their tolerance for behavior that is actually age appropriate was lower because the jobs that they had to hold because of the inequalities um that they were experiencing out in the world and um or like the misogyny or you know like I just I I I just wonder if like there was never like a space for them to really heal um and I think you bring that home with you
00:47:39
Speaker
I think that's super interesting thought. because um I do feel like for my, my mom, that wasn't necessarily her truth. If you guys remember from like our friendship episode, season one, my mom modeled friendship and she did have a circle of friends that she talks to. And I do feel like my mom talked out a lot of things, maybe not necessarily like
Trusting Intuition in Parenting
00:48:03
Speaker
expectations. Like I feel like there was like that hint of like,
00:48:07
Speaker
we do you do it I say kind of thing especially my dad too is very much like that but like if there were were life things going on in our family um she was big on like talking it through and um she had friends that she talked it through so I don't always feel like she came home like with additional um additional weight it's just if I'm not listening she gonna let me know and if I'm not following her expectations she don't let me know um so but I do also think that like something you know I've learned in my journey of being a parent to a Black child is
00:48:46
Speaker
that uh our society you guys know this of course but our society makes black children black adults much oh yeah here yeah and so i wonder too if part of that's what i was like or otherwise like they're trying to get you to grow the fuck up because the world is going to make you right the road kind like ah yeah that's what i'm saying of like yeah Yeah. Like, like you, like, like, again, like, I don't want you to have to experience this. So like, I'm going to try to get ahead of it yeah so that you don't have to, you know? Oh yeah. There's definitely that. It's like, yeah.
00:49:23
Speaker
Yeah. Like you have to act like this out on the street because you don't get a second chance. you don't Yeah. This is how you survive. Yeah. So listen once. Wow. Yeah.
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Deep, deep, deep. I love that.
00:49:39
Speaker
um I only have really one other question. Um, um, I asked, I started with gentle parenting because i feel like that's the one thing that like I see everywhere all the time.
00:49:50
Speaker
Um, but I was just wondering if there was ever like a moment when you like felt like super overwhelmed, like, like you can think of a parenting instance where maybe you felt conflicted about how you're handling something or overly frustrated um,
00:50:09
Speaker
I mean, I can think of a million because I only have a two-year-old. I'm not sick of it. But can you think back to, or maybe, you know, yeah. is Is this bringing up anything? Because I could have a list.
00:50:24
Speaker
oh I mean, vividly for me. So Maxwell was an angel baby. Like, slept through the night. He was very quiet. Like, I can count on one hand how many times...
00:50:39
Speaker
he cried to the point that i had to set him down and walk away. Like that was very rare for me. um And so I think because was so easy Then when he when he was about like four and a half, he started coming into our bedroom during the middle of the night.
00:50:58
Speaker
And my sleep started to be disrupted then, which was like way late for most people. um And he still does it. ah And whatever, that's what it is.
00:51:09
Speaker
But I do like remember i was – there was like probably six to 12 months where I was just like – a zombie, totally sleep deprived. Everyone had advice.
00:51:21
Speaker
And I'm like, you guys, I have looked this up. I have read everything there is to read. I have talked to the doctor. This has been going on for a frigging year at this point. You think you're the first person to tell me to walk him back without using words? Like,
00:51:36
Speaker
yeah Get the fuck out of here. I was like at my wits end. I'm like, nothing you can tell me. Nothing. ah yeah nothing you can tell me I haven't tried. So please, I'm just venting right now. I'm not asking for advice.
00:51:50
Speaker
yeah i Oh, it used to make me crazy. Yeah. I'm still in the thick of all the sleeping nonsense and One my coworkers, her son is six months older than Quinn.
00:52:04
Speaker
And so, and she has like brought in like a sleep specialist or something like that. Yeah, I know. And it's like, well, you're supposed to. My eyes just rolled so hard. Rolled so hard. I know. And it's like, you're supposed to, or whatever, or you, you know, it's like, you shouldn't blank, blank, blank. And this is why they blank, blank, blank. And I'm just like, well, I'm going to blank, blank, blank. Cause this is my baby. And there is some sort of intuition that we all should be able to like lean into.
00:52:36
Speaker
And, um, yeah. so yeah I do have the tendency to want to give advice but I think this process has taught me that like if somebody wants my advice they'll they'll ask me for it and otherwise i should just like empathize or like yeah, Sunny, been there yeah, like most of what I say now is like You're almost through it, man. It feels like the end of the world right now. And it's going to feel that way until it's over, of course. But like in the grand scheme of things, like another three, six months is a blip on the radar. You will barely remember this in two years.
00:53:14
Speaker
And that's all. That's all the advice I have. Our bodies forget these things very quickly somehow. Some people have more than one. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
00:53:26
Speaker
Some people have more than one child. Was that my cue?
00:53:32
Speaker
some people are dumb enough to have three go ahead they're not mine
00:53:45
Speaker
for um I I'm I'm similar to Karen in this regard like I generally don't go out seeking advice I just don't I'm pretty arrogant in that regard um Because i I just think so many people don't know, like,
00:54:03
Speaker
I just don't, maybe I'm cynical in that regard. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't know. um And I had Brielle at such a young age that it was like trial and error that I guess I didn't get into the habit of like looking at it, you know, and I can see, I know what you're talking about though, when it is like those lonely nights of like waking up and feeding the baby and like scrolling and like that's a learning, you know, because it's like, that's what like is at the front of your mind. um So I can see that. um But yeah, I guess,
00:54:34
Speaker
I don't really allow myself to get overwhelmed by parenting advice. I just would rather escape into reality TV and.
00:54:45
Speaker
Throwing it back to last week. Yeah. But I think, I think it's, again, it goes back to what we were saying with destiny of like, I i think I'm so kind of focused on trying to be the best version of myself that like that in itself is attractive enough for my kids to want to know how to be a kinder, better human.
00:55:03
Speaker
And I think that like a lot of this conversation is just reminding me that like, this is just another form of control. Like you were saying, like each generation has their own thing. right This is just another form of control. So like, just like chill. um that and Like just ah your your kids, like, and and this maybe comes from like the fact that I have three kids who were raised seemingly the same way and all three are different, you
Reflections and Closing Remarks
00:55:26
Speaker
know? So like, it I think maybe I've given up, I don't know, and like trying to like do one thing correctly because like what works for Brielle doesn't work for Millie. What works for Millie doesn't work for Miles, you know? yeah.
00:55:40
Speaker
I just am noticing that they're all their own, their own person. And like my biggest goal is to just like keep them safe yeah oh um and keep them kind.
00:55:53
Speaker
And, and, and I get such lovely compliments about, well, at least Brielle. You peaked early. Yeah. Yeah. i whole child you peakeked early yeah um But, you know, and like, I don't know. I don't know if that has anything to do with me or Luke or the home that they're growing up in. But, you know, I think, again, I just sometimes you just have to realize what kind of home you are creating for your child. And like, if that's the home that feels peaceful and harmonious, then that's the correct way for you.
00:56:30
Speaker
Yeah. Love that.
00:56:35
Speaker
So are we paused too? No. Okay. Did we lose Seth? We were all pondering. Yeah. um So with that, um anyone have any confessionals?
00:56:50
Speaker
I do. You do? Okay. um So ah the first, I don't know, three or four of our episodes this season all seemed to come.
00:57:04
Speaker
circle around capitalism in some way, shape or form and like the, you know, the the effects it was having on society. The theme that I'm seeing for this ah for last week and this week that is coming through is the patriarchy.
00:57:21
Speaker
And Manny, you just said these parenting styles are just another form of control. And I immediately thought of like, this is the freaking patriarchy looking for ways to make women feel like they are not being good enough parents, that they need to do something different to be better parents.
00:57:45
Speaker
And I know gentle parenting involves men and women. I am very aware that all of, you know, that like we have a generation of men who are very present fathers, relatively speaking. However, I think that at the end of the day, there is an expectation on women and their parenting that is far different than the expectation on men. It's like the whole conversation of like,
00:58:09
Speaker
like dad takes the kids to the park and everyone's like, oh, he's such a good dad. And you're like, okay, well, I'm a good mom too. Anyways, it just, that hit me when you said it's another form of control and it's like, yes, it's like another way to make women feel less than and to give them a distraction of something else that they need to better themselves on so they don't look behind the curtain.
00:58:34
Speaker
well And there we are again. There we are again. Now we're right back at it. Capitalism and patriarchy. Wicked. Something has changed inside me.
00:58:51
Speaker
Any confessionals from you, Manny? um So something that Steph said made me think about, and you probably know this term very well, Steph, as an educator, um social emotional learning.
00:59:03
Speaker
Ooh. And I feel like gentle parenting is social emotional learning yeah wrapped up. And yeah one of the things that I teach my students is – um how to navigate conflict um directly because I feel like we um float out these buzzwords like social emotional learning, but we don't know what that means for ourselves. yeah
00:59:37
Speaker
And so I put them through the ringer at the end of the semester through this project where I'm intentionally, um like not clear and where I make them like kind of figure out and problem solve together. And it's like, okay, like, and we talk about it and, you know, we unpack it at the end. And it's like, so like, what were you feeling? Did you directly address the person?
01:00:02
Speaker
And what I say is you can't give away something you don't have. So how can you step into a classroom and tell a group of learners that they have to work in cooperative learning groups for social emotional learning, but you don't have it when you work in your own groups.
01:00:20
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel that way with gentle parenting, right? Like, how can you tell, how can you try to like instill this in a child when you don't have it yourself, when you step out into your own conversations, when you step out into your, so I think that's why I was like a little bit kind of like defensive in the beginning of like, is cause like we have to really, like these things really take work on all, yeah like um us in every conversations that we have, not just with our children, you know, but with each other.
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah. You can't give away something you don't have. I love that. I think that's what my confessional is, is that I'm realizing what I'm attracted to about Destiny's way of presenting.
01:01:08
Speaker
Gentle parenting is always centered on like you're healing yourself and realizing that, you know, are you really mad at your kid because they,
01:01:22
Speaker
you know, through the shoe or is there something else going on? Or she's like, do you feel distra- like, do you feel- they being disrespectful or do you feel disrespected?
01:01:35
Speaker
Yes. And why? You know? And so I just feel like, um, that, you know, I just feel like you can't give what you don't have. And so I'm realizing that being ah present, um, warm and loving person boundary setting parent stems from taking care of yourself too yeah so yeah that's what what i why why i'm attracted to what she says I agree. Destiny.ann on Instagram, SheTheBomb.com.
01:02:07
Speaker
SheTheBomb.com. Let's put her into those links wherever they are. Yes, I saved a few. Wherever you get your links. Whatever the link. Go technology. yeah and
01:02:23
Speaker
All right, friends. Well, Karen, thank you for joining us and listening. Just wanted to share or give you a heads up for taking a brief pause and we'll be back in two weeks. um So please follow us on Instagram, like and subscribe to our channel Apple or Spotify.
01:02:40
Speaker
And we love you for listening. Thank you.
01:03:01
Speaker
out of Tiki-Taki and they all look just the same.