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Cancel Culture & Corporate Boycotts: Do They Work?
36 Plays2 months ago
Welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen Podcast! In this first episode of our two-part series on cancel culture, we explore the history of boycotts and the growing trend of “canceling” businesses. Is it effective to cancel companies over controversial actions? What are the consequences of this type of protest? We examine the evolution of corporate boycotts and its role in activism. Tune in as we discuss whether canceling businesses truly drives change or simply creates publicity for the organization with questionable practices.
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Cancel Culture
00:00:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Cancel culture. What or who comes to mind when you hear the term cancel culture? Do you think anyone is ever really canceled? If you've ever poted and pondered this, we will be exploring this over the next two episodes. So buckle up. This is Karen and welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen pod.
00:00:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
All right, welcome back for another installment of You Can Call Me Karen. I am your host, Karen, joined by my lovely co-hosts, Manny.
00:01:09
Manni
Hello.
00:01:16
Steph
Wow. oh
00:01:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
that was um That was Manny if you weren't clear.
00:01:19
Steph
but
00:01:21
Manni
That was my soprano.
00:01:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And Steph.
00:01:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And Steph, ah can you beat that?
00:01:25
Steph
i No, and I won't try.
00:01:30
Manni
yeah
00:01:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Off to a strong start.
History and Humor in Cancel Culture
00:01:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um This week, we will be exploring the history of cancel culture and where we think it comes from. um But before we dive into the topic for the day, we got to get into who you calling Karen.
00:01:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, we're not doing that this time.
00:01:52
Manni
Yeah, yeah, we can't do we can't do the Wendy Williams.
00:01:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I don't know that one.
00:01:55
Manni
Poor Wendy Williams. I hope she's OK. But we can't do that. We have to find out, like, who you calling? Do the little phone.
00:02:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm not going to be doing that.
00:02:08
Manni
Do the little. Bring it.
00:02:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Anyways, on that note, Manny, Manny, who are you calling Karen this week?
00:02:10
Manni
Sorry.
00:02:14
Manni
I guess I got to go first for that interruption. um
00:02:17
Steph
you
00:02:20
Manni
oh So I am calling, i love I love that we have Karen on this podcast and I'm going to throw this back to one of my favorite Karen moments with Karen that occurred in um September when we were all together for alumni weekend.
00:02:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, no. Oh, no.
00:02:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, no.
00:02:40
Manni
We were um on campus. We already talked about the time when you had the shaker.
00:02:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Smoothie incident.
00:02:49
Manni
Yeah, and they were and you were like, I don't believe I should have a number. I'm foreign. ah
00:02:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Not exactly how it went down, but I like that better. so
00:03:00
Manni
Revisionist history. um But a moment that that was we're all walking on campus and if you haven't been on a college campus lately or if you live in a very rural ah area of the country, there are now robots that deliver food to people.
00:03:18
Manni
yeah
00:03:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I know where this is going. Oh my gosh.
00:03:24
Manni
So we're walking. We're drinking our little shit protein shakes. And we see these robots coming our way. And it's me, Karen, and a couple of other friends.
00:03:35
Manni
And ah Karen is like, what would happen if I just stepped in front of that robot? like Would they move out of my way? Or what? I don't believe that the robot would run me over.
00:03:49
Manni
So I'm just going to step in front of the robot or whatever. So we're like, OK.
00:03:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I knew that they stopped. Like they stopped. I knew they stopped.
00:03:57
Manni
right okay so she's claiming that she knew that they stopped okay so the robot is coming towards us on the main like um on the on the oval coming down the path and um she's like basically trying to play chicken with this robot and the robot doesn't stop
00:04:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No. I just lost chicken, that's all.
00:04:22
Manni
he
00:04:26
Manni
And yes, and her entitled ass was almost run over and by a robot.
00:04:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I lost the game.
00:04:33
Manni
you
00:04:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I jumped, I jumped.
00:04:34
Manni
she
00:04:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And then, but it did stop, remember?
00:04:36
Manni
Yes.
00:04:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Like it stopped as soon as I jumped, but but I lost the game.
00:04:41
Manni
Yeah.
00:04:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I lost the game with chicken big time.
00:04:43
Manni
Right. You definitely lost. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The technology one technology one carrying zero.
00:04:51
Steph
um here and Karen, I feel like your history of impeding traffic um is is long because I remember a certain Karen who would like to sit in the middle of the street or we're on sidewalks crisscross applesauce.
00:04:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh damn it was oh to ah no oh
00:05:14
Steph
When we're walking around campus, she she really just wants to be where she wants to be.
00:05:14
Manni
Yup.
00:05:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
My mother listens to this, Stephanie.
00:05:23
Manni
yeah and She probably knows this. She probably has millions of stories about this from your childhood.
00:05:27
Steph
for
00:05:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, I was an angel.
00:05:31
Manni
Like, yup. Actually, you were never a child. You were never a child. You were always born a 25-year-old woman.
00:05:35
Steph
You were born an adult.
00:05:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. I was born a 45-year-old white lady named Karen. It's fine.
00:05:42
Steph
Oh, man.
00:05:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh. Oh, Karen.
00:05:44
Manni
So that's my Karen of the week.
00:05:46
Steph
Love that, Karen.
00:05:47
Manni
Oh, Karen.
00:05:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Steph?
00:05:50
Manni
What about you, Steph?
00:05:50
Steph
So yes, my Karen story is kind of an almost Karen story. Like it has like the makings. Okay.
00:06:01
Steph
So, um, yeah, this is, this is actually kind of funny.
00:06:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm intrigued.
00:06:05
Steph
So my family, we traveled over the holidays and we were doing family boarding. Um, yes, we fly Southwest. I love Southwest.
00:06:16
Steph
Don't make fun of me.
00:06:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, family boarding.
00:06:18
Steph
Family boarding.
00:06:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I was thinking of like a dog kennel, like you were boarding the dog, you were boarding the family.
00:06:21
Steph
Oh, family boarding. Like we're getting on a plane to go visit family.
00:06:25
Manni
But that would be called dog boarding, not family boarding.
00:06:28
Steph
facts. here
00:06:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Wow. If they were boarding their family, it would be family board.
00:06:34
Manni
Right.
00:06:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Anyways, Steph.
00:06:36
Steph
So if you are not a Southwest enthusiast as I am, um they board a group and then they do like a list preferred extended time. And then if you have a child six or under, you get to go on before the B group. And so we were doing family boarding.
00:06:54
Steph
And they she paused and like waited, anybody else a preferred, blah, blah, blah. She's like, okay, families, you can come on up. And so there was a family in front of us. And mind you, our flight had been delayed.
00:07:06
Steph
And so we had to be in the airport for three hours. And for some reason, my little two year old, who usually is asleep by 8pm, thought that she was somebody else and was sprinting around the airport until I would say almost 11pm and our flight didn't board.
00:07:23
Manni
Whoa,
00:07:24
Steph
Yup. And homegirl, we did not.
00:07:26
Manni
absolutely not Quinn.
00:07:28
Steph
Right? And so we didn't board until midnight. It was like 12 15 or was the flight time. And my baby finally fell asleep in the stroller and so usually i'm carrying her and we have the stroller folded up and then we put it like at the end of the tarmac or whatever or the gateway or whatever it's called but she was asleep so i wasn't ready to pick her up yet and so and i'm thinking my brain is like okay so
00:07:40
Manni
you
00:07:49
Manni
Yeah.
00:07:54
Steph
ah how I'm gonna do this so that I keep her asleep so that she sleeps the rest of the flight and you know and so and I'm holding her boarding pass for my boarding pass but blah blah blah and we're just about to hand the lady the thing and here comes this lady with the haircut with the haircut and everything and she just as I'm about to hand she's like um excuse me I was A so she she missed like yeah and so
00:07:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:07:58
Manni
Right.
00:08:03
Manni
Right.
00:08:08
Manni
Uh oh.
00:08:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh no.
00:08:12
Manni
Mm-mm.
00:08:20
Manni
Now.
00:08:24
Steph
funny enough, the boarding agent like stop like this.
00:08:27
Manni
Yes.
00:08:29
Steph
And I and like I stopped like this. And we all just kind of stared at her and she was like, and then she's ahead.
00:08:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Go ahead. Oh, good.
00:08:40
Steph
did say go ahead.
00:08:40
Manni
Yes.
00:08:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She wasn't almost caring.
00:08:42
Steph
He almost went there. Okay, like she but and
00:08:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Good, good for her. She checked herself.
00:08:47
Steph
She did check herself. And so then they took our stuff and then we rolled down and then I feel like she must have like realized that we all thought that she was about to be a complete a-hole because we get down to the end of the jetway.
00:08:57
Manni
Uh huh.
00:09:00
Steph
And so now I'm like, okay, let's try and pick Quinn up, you know, Quincy. pretty long and heavy. And so I'm like, she's dead asleep. And so I was like, here, let's pull off to the side where like, man, you can go ahead.
00:09:12
Steph
She's like, no, I'll wait. I'll wait. You guys do what you gotta do.
00:09:15
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh.
00:09:16
Steph
Like, like sugary, sugary sweet.
00:09:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a
00:09:18
Steph
And I'm like, no, seriously, this is gonna take a second.
00:09:19
Manni
Yeah.
00:09:21
Steph
We have to hold up the thing. Man, you may go ahead. And so I get baby over the shoulder. We hand the whatever. And she almost Karen's again, she is ahead of us. And now we notice there's a little stumble to her step. And so we realized that she was a little intoxicated.
00:09:39
Steph
and I think intoxicated, intoxication slowed her role a little bit because I don't know if she because okay so she's in front of us now and there's this old man who was sitting at the gate and he's like old old like wheelchair and he ever he takes slow to move like crazy old old old like I mean not all old people but I'm telling you guys like if you saw him
00:09:57
Manni
Old wheelchair.
00:10:03
Steph
He was very, very old.
00:10:03
Manni
Yeah.
00:10:05
Steph
And he was like, inching himself down the aisle and he was trying behind the seat.
00:10:07
Manni
No.
00:10:12
Steph
And so then he was like, so he um he turns around and he's like, I haven't spoken to a blonde all day to the Carrot Lady.
00:10:13
Manni
Death to an old person impersonation.
00:10:22
Steph
She was like, oh, they start flirting with each other. It was the weirdest thing. And she was like, well, I guess I'm going to sit with you. And so she does.
00:10:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:10:32
Steph
So it was so gross.
00:10:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um
00:10:33
Steph
So she she does one of these as if she wants this old man to go sit by the window and he does one of these because he wants her to go sit by the window.
00:10:42
Manni
Oh, like putting out its hands.
00:10:43
Steph
And so putting his hand like gone in like after you and she does the same thing and then she stands there for a second and you could tell she was to like oh I don't sit by the window and then she goes and says you know what
00:10:45
Manni
After you, man. Yeah.
00:10:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:10:56
Steph
All right, I'll sit by the window. I mean, she was like, you, she better be a good conversationalist because I'm going to sit by the window for you.
00:11:03
Manni
Oh.
00:11:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh
00:11:06
Manni
Wow.
00:11:06
Steph
Anyway, she almost Karen.
00:11:07
Manni
And this is why I don't fly Southwest.
00:11:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Cringe. I thought you were going to say, and this is why I don't fly commercial.
00:11:14
Steph
Oh.
00:11:18
Manni
That's it. know
00:11:21
Steph
But anyway, i'm like we just watched this whole thing, like Sleeping Baby on the chest, like, and and she, she was, it was wonderful.
00:11:23
Manni
Oh God, what a spectacle. And it's like one o'clock at this moment.
00:11:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh.
00:11:31
Steph
And she literally was like, oh my God.
00:11:32
Manni
ah Wow, no self-awareness.
00:11:34
Steph
Anyway, almost caring. None.
00:11:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, ladies, I don't appreciate being one of these,
Historical Comparisons to Modern Cancel Culture
00:11:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
but those are your Karens for the week.
00:11:42
Manni
okay
00:11:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
All right, so I think we have mentioned before that this pod kind of started from our group text that got us all talking about current events, pop culture, politics, etc. And one of the things that seems to come up quite often in that dialogue is cancel culture. I personally have argued over the years that no one is ever really canceled. And we'll be diving into the specifics of people that we've talked about next week. But before we get there, we wanted to talk a little bit about the history of where cancel culture comes from.
00:12:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um companies or organizations that have been canceled or have been tried to be canceled and whether we think this is effective. So first, I wanted to start with a little bit of like, where does cancel culture come from? um Before canceling individuals, people canceled companies, people canceled governments or organizations or entities.
00:13:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
that were perceived as abusing their power in any way, shape or form. So I did some quick research. I went down many rabbit holes last night before stuff got me on track here um because the history here is quite extensive.
00:13:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So um just a little bit of examples, like there's a lot of history in the US specifically that ah involve this kind of idea of cancel culture.
00:13:17
Manni
Yeah.
00:13:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um specifically if we think about the American Revolution um and the Civil Rights Movement, which are like two kind of momentous times in our history.
00:13:38
Manni
yeah
00:13:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
can We can argue the reason for the start of the American Revolution. There are um a lot of catalysts of how we got to that point, but one of those was the the taxes that were being imposed on American colonists without um having representation in British government, the taxes really ramped up after the Seven Years' War, I believe, which is kind of like the First World War. um So this prompted boycotts of British products in the colonies to avoid paying these taxes. It actually generated a lot of traction, um which obviously got a lot of attention by the Brits, and it kind of was one of those early catalysts of the American Revolution and how we became the United States.
00:14:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um I also wanted to highlight in the Civil Rights Movement, I'm sure everybody has heard of Rosa Parks after her arrest.
00:14:32
Manni
Never. Who's that?
00:14:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Okay, so Rosa Parks, I just had to.
00:14:35
Manni
I'm just kidding.
00:14:39
Karen, Steph, & Manni
If you haven't, I'm not going to explain, but.
00:14:40
Manni
exactly Yeah.
00:14:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She was arrested for refusing to give up her seat on the bus. Okay. And um there was like a 13 month long Montgomery bus boycott, which ultimately resulted in a Supreme Court ruling that bus segregation is unconstitutional. So like, again, a boycott that resulted in ah an outcome, a positive outcome, I think we would argue.
00:15:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So a few moments in our US history where boycotts um or arguably what we today would call cancel culture were we're driving very meaningful change and to like altered the course of our history.
00:15:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and So again, a little bit of context behind cancel culture and like the US history specifically with this idea of boycotting to drive change.
00:15:26
Manni
Yeah.
00:15:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I thought in doing this research, I found it really interesting that in a time where previously like information was so much harder to get and pass along, right? You had like written newspapers, maybe you had radio. There are so many examples in that timeframe of like successful boycotts that like resulted in the thing that they were pushing for. And then if you think of, if you try to think of equivalent things in modern times where We have information at the tip of our fingers.
00:16:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
We were talking about this last week, so I think this is very timely.
00:16:08
Manni
Yeah.
00:16:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just, I haven't found such strong success stories, so I i wondered why. And this is what we'll kind of talk about today. A few examples, like if we think about Nike.
00:16:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Nike has had a couple of moments. In the 90s, they were boycotted for their are child labor practices overseas. In recent years, And soup, like ah I think about a year ago, there was some boycotts because they had partnered with a trans influencer, Dylan Mulvaney, who was like one of their representatives for female athletic attire.
00:16:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um But despite their kind of checkered history, right, they are the most successful ah athletic apparel shoe sales are through the roof.
00:16:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Every year their revenues are increasing. So like these cancelings are very ineffective, as you can see.
00:17:01
Manni
Yeah.
00:17:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Other companies with polarizing stances that people have called on to boycott recently, um BP for the oil spill, I guess that's probably like a handful, maybe 10 years ago now, Hobby Lobby for their healthcare practices, Chip-fil-A for their religious beliefs.
00:17:16
Manni
Yeah.
00:17:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
There's all these organizations that have contributed one way or another to the 2024 campaigns. And so like, depending on which side you're on, you're being asked to boycott.
00:17:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um The only recent boycott that I can think of that was rather successful is Bud Light. And interestingly, it's because they did a collab with the same influencer, Dylan mu Mulvaney, um on social media.
00:17:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And when she came out with, I think it was like a can, if I'm not mistaken, that was rainbow. And then you know it just took off on social media. People were banning the product or boycotting the product. um And it really hit Bud Light sales like dramatically. And for an extended period of time, I think the last article I saw was March of 24, which was but about a year after it happened. And they had still like repercussions from um that event way more than Nike, which is the same person.
00:18:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So I wanted to kind of set the stage for that because there's there are boycotts for a variety of reasons.
00:18:25
Manni
Hmm.
00:18:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Lately, they seem to be socially driven, right? Like what is your kind of um you know social preferences and where do you stand and therefore which boycott are you going to follow?
00:18:41
Steph
Oh.
00:18:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So I want to go through a few questions um on you know whether we think boycotts work um why you think they work or or don't.
00:18:51
Steph
Oh.
00:18:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um And then we'll end with a slightly more provocative question, which we'll get to. But first and foremost, let's hear whether you guys think boycotts work in today's world or cancel culture of companies.
00:19:03
Manni
Hmm.
00:19:07
Manni
Hmm.
00:19:10
Steph
I vote, they do not. I've, that particular particularly with organizations and companies, because I feel like Americans, I feel like this kind of goes back to our last episode.
00:19:15
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I vote.
00:19:29
Steph
um We, we want what we want. we want it when we want it.
00:19:34
Manni
I know.
00:19:34
Steph
And so, you know, like, I just bought brand new Nikes and I'm not done wearing them. And I don't care what they do or say, these are my shoes, or, you know, Chick-fil-A, you know, whatever, um whatever they've done, those sandwiches are tasty.
00:19:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:19:54
Steph
And so I'm gonna keep buying them and you can't tell me what to do. um And so I just feel i feel like people don't get behind,
00:20:01
Manni
yeah
00:20:06
Steph
don't even if they agree with why people are calling to cancel those organizations, convenience and what they want tends to win over, win out.
00:20:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:20:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Why do you think that's so different than in the past? like If I think about um the the boycotting of British goods at the start of the American Revolution, people wanted those goods. It was like molasses and sugar. you know like Why do you think that was so effective? And today we're like, f fuck it.
00:20:40
Manni
I think because less product was being produced and we came on to new soil where we found different raw materials that we could use that on we we could substitute for those materials that were being shipped in.
00:20:58
Steph
Hmm. Hmm.
00:21:01
Manni
I also think to the part of the product with the company and ah and American citizens and our, we talked about this last episode, our understanding of the entire like matrix and system isn't as evolved as it should be. So these companies like Bud Light and BP Oil, they manufacture a lot more than just the product that they are forward facing to to the consumer.
00:21:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
e
00:21:25
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:21:29
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:21:29
Manni
So you'll never really be able to shut those major companies down because they have their hands in other industries and we are not aware The average American is not aware of what those other industries and and manufacturing things that they're producing are.
00:21:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mmhmm.
00:21:48
Manni
And so they have a lot more power than what they had historically.
00:21:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mmhmm.
00:21:54
Manni
I also think that this is something about, um again, our conversation last week on TikTok and Instagram and social media, I think a major corporation versus an individual small enterprise. If I get on social media and I start talking about canceling these companies, it's perceived as like vi signal virtue signaling. And then my comment section now gets inundated with you know negative feedback from people who might not agree with me. And in turn, as a small enterprise, that might
00:22:30
Manni
cause me to change my tone. And I think we're seeing that right now with the after facts of the election and the war in Gaza and the Free Palestine Movement. I think it's been quieted after the election and that's something that like I think that's a consequence and whether you know I'm saying consequence may main mainly as like an outcome of the size and the power that that movement had.
00:22:57
Manni
And it was very, it was able to make it into our feeds and our news because it was more of a voting.
00:23:09
Manni
It was more of a a topic for like who we were going to vote for. But now the outcome of the election has happened.
00:23:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and Election.
00:23:16
Manni
It's not as boring as it actually was.
00:23:18
Steph
Hmm.
00:23:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a We do not strive for coherence here.
00:23:22
Manni
So I think that Yeah, I don't know. Those are my thoughts. Whether they were coherent, I don't know.
00:23:35
Steph
but Um, I feel like, um, I think Manny, you might have sent us this like meme or like video where, um, a woman, I don't remember her name.
00:23:46
Steph
I feel bad to bring it up without having her name, but she was being interviewed like on the red carpet and she was like, and so we got to mess their money up.
00:23:55
Manni
oh yeah
00:23:55
Steph
Um, you know what I'm saying? And I
00:23:58
Manni
yeah
00:23:59
Steph
And I feel like you know when when there was the rally around the um Boston Tea Party and boycotting British goods, there wasnt there was an immediate, it would cost less if we were no longer required to pay taxes, but canceling Nike doesn't change the cost of the product.
00:24:20
Manni
Oh, yes.
00:24:22
Steph
It doesn't change anything for the end result.
00:24:23
Manni
Yeah.
00:24:25
Steph
And um when I think about like, we brought up the BP oil spill, I remember they did a long campaign like I remember like, because people are like, BP would drive past BP and it would be empty.
00:24:39
Manni
Yeah.
00:24:39
Steph
And I remember like back then there wasn't streaming, like people watched commercials still, BP's commercials. Do you guys remember those? They were like um all the things that they're doing for preservation of animals in the sea.
00:24:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:24:54
Steph
And like they really like fought for people to trust them again.
00:24:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mhm.
00:24:59
Steph
and um
00:24:59
Manni
Yeah.
00:25:01
Steph
So I feel like, um, it worked, um, for the tea party and like before, because there was an actual tangible result. Cause it costs less if we're not paying taxes to another organization. Whereas now, um, like to Monika's point, Nike is going to Nike, um, whether you buy their sneakers or not. Cause Nike is so immersed in so many other things that we may not even know about.
00:25:29
Manni
Yeah.
00:25:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:25:30
Manni
And I will say, again, this goes back to like, the way we study history is really important because we have a certain sense but like to to the victor go the spoils, right?
00:25:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yes.
00:25:42
Manni
But let's remember that there were people who did not want to go against the British. There were anti-revolutionists and blood was drawn for that to happen.
00:25:47
Steph
me
00:25:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:25:53
Steph
one Yeah.
00:25:54
Manni
There was war over that, right?
00:25:56
Steph
Right.
00:25:56
Manni
So violence was shed.
00:25:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:25:57
Steph
Right. Yeah.
00:25:58
Manni
So at what cost is a boycott, right?
00:26:01
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:26:02
Manni
like Like the boycott, like you said, was like a catalyst um It really hurt the British government and that kind of like weakened their power, right? But we did fight a very bloody war.
00:26:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:26:21
Manni
for that to occur, and there were people who did not want that to happen. And so the magnitude of that, ah we have to remember that with less people in the time period, it it might not have seemed as like what what we're facing today, but the the story is the same.
00:26:40
Manni
There were people who were uninterested in getting involved. There were people who were uninterested in going to war.
00:26:43
Steph
yeah
00:26:45
Manni
There were people who were unwilling to fight, you know.
00:26:46
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:26:48
Manni
um So I just I just think it's important to that you know we we also like make sure that like from perspective point of view that like it it it was yeah.
00:26:57
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:26:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
There are dissenting opinions it is
00:27:00
Manni
yeah
00:27:01
Steph
That's a good point.
00:27:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, it's ah it's a fantastic point. When I was um you know looking into this topic, I was originally surprised that in a world where, like in the age of information, in a world where we have every piece of information at our fingertips theoretically,
00:27:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um you would think that you know boycotts could theoretically become more effective because You can get the word out about something. You can reach the masses and you can ah you know generate, I guess, a following on a specific topic. But your point there, Manny, is great because the reality is there's two sides to every story. What I think is bad or what company I think we should boycott for whatever reason
00:27:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
there is a portion of the population and usually about half that would disagree.
00:27:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so the more information that people have, the more people can um voice their stance and either support or not, you know or or boycott said company or organization.
00:27:59
Manni
Mm hmm.
00:28:00
Manni
mean
00:28:09
Manni
Yeah.
00:28:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's interesting because I wonder how many how much conflict we are avoiding by you know, by more people being informed just broadly.
Impact of Cancel Culture on Companies and Consumers
00:28:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um
00:28:26
Steph
Well, I think to
00:28:26
Manni
Say more about that. what you what can you say Can you dissect that a little bit? Would you say how much conflict we're avoiding?
00:28:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, like, you know, boycotts um create some form of conflict, whether it's whether it's the American Revolution, whether it's the Civil Rights Movement,
00:28:33
Steph
Mm.
00:28:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um the like the name boycott comes from a person actually it was his last name in Ireland ah who was a landlord and it was like an uprising against the landowners basically um and you you know those things those events drove change maybe because there was less information available to people, you know, maybe because it was like a powerful few that could do a lot more while others ah sat ignorantly or, you know, naively by, as opposed to today where now we can get a lot more information out and maybe conflicts don't,
00:29:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
escalate or come to a head because there's more people that are informed and can take a stance earlier before it becomes a major conflict. I don't know. I'm just hypothesizing based on like what you said there, Manny, but it's like it is kind of interesting to think about if we had less information, would there be more kind of monumental change from these types of boycotts?
00:29:57
Steph
I feel like when something that you said, Manny, was that if you individual post, we need to do this, there's the dissenting people right there in your friend group.
00:30:10
Steph
And so that you get that individual shame, like, you know, to be called out.
00:30:14
Manni
yeah
00:30:16
Steph
um And maybe you're not ashamed, but it slows your role. Cause you're, you know, like the people I'm friends with, we all have varying perspectives. And so not everybody I blast to is going to ride with me.
00:30:30
Steph
and And so it slows everybody down because you know like like we were saying in our last episode, you know there can be data to support why we should cancel this organization and there could be data to support why um that organization shouldn't.
00:30:39
Manni
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:30:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
We shouldn't. Yeah.
00:30:48
Steph
And somebody who really just wants to continue to wear those Nike's is going to find data to support where I'm gonna keep wearing my Nike's and I'm gonna let you know and here's an article
00:30:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and
00:31:00
Steph
And so we're done.
00:31:00
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:31:01
Steph
And we're done here. ah
00:31:02
Manni
Yeah, I think it goes back to like at what cost right like we
00:31:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:31:08
Manni
I don't need to boycott Nike and go to war over boycotting Nike because because there's New Balance in rebo and Lululemon.
00:31:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:31:15
Steph
you
00:31:18
Steph
Yeah.
00:31:20
Manni
We have more competition for other products that we could purchase as opposed to back then when it was like, well, what else are we going to be doing in our free time?
00:31:21
Steph
Yeah.
00:31:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:33
Manni
Let's just go to war. Fuck it.
00:31:36
Steph
ah you would But you would think with so much competition that it would be easy to, quote unquote, mess Nike's money up, but it's not.
00:31:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, it's not.
00:31:47
Steph
like there there are There are a lot of options.
00:31:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
They're too big. They're too big to fail, if you will.
00:31:50
Steph
There's so many brands that you could use instead. And, you know, but trying to convince people that, you know, try these other brands isn't working so like or doesn't work.
00:32:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, and and this is like...
00:32:04
Steph
know but and i Not that I think Nike, like not that I'm not proposing that we all boycott Nike.
00:32:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, they're just the example.
00:32:11
Steph
They're the example.
00:32:12
Manni
Yeah.
00:32:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, and this is why I think this the idea of like just access to information um really changes the outcomes of these types of events because there is half of the population. I'm making up the number, but you know some portion of the population that's like boycott Nike and they do that. And then there's another portion of the population that's like Wait, I love Nike or I believe in what they're doing and therefore I'm going harder at them.
00:32:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so now we're just back to where we started and Nike's good to go.
00:32:42
Manni
Right.
00:32:47
Manni
Yeah.
00:32:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Again, using Nike just as the example. So like ah building on that a little bit, I thought it was interesting as I was researching this. that Dylan Mulvaney specifically came up into events that had like massively, it seems like massively different impacts on the organizations um that were targeted. And i I get curious if that's surprising to you too, if you have thoughts about like, why do you think that is? Why do you think one was so much more successful than the other? Bud Light versus Nike.
00:33:20
Manni
Well, you said Bud Light was, ah to remind us of the time, Bud Light was 24.
00:33:20
Steph
Hmm.
00:33:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
what They were both like in the 2023 timeframe. They were pretty close to one another.
00:33:33
Manni
Yeah. I'm not familiar with this, so I'll let you go Steph.
00:33:34
Steph
I think I I think um with the Bud Light thing, first of all, I think it was because I remember there was like a commemorative can with Dylan O'Mey's face on it, but it wasn't actually going to be sold.
00:33:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and
00:33:54
Steph
So it was silly that people were like acting like a dang fool over it because it ended up not being, it wasn't
00:34:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It was just something that made for her, I think.
00:34:04
Steph
made for her and she like held it up. and But like I think people thought that that meant that that was gonna go into production and it never did. And then um I feel like maybe it was around the time when so many organizations did their, and like not to be any kind of way, but like that performative rainbow, everything in June kind of a thing.
00:34:14
Manni
Mm hmm.
00:34:26
Manni
Yeah.
00:34:26
Steph
And so that was part of, like and so I feel like um you know everybody knows someone who supports the LGBTQ community and so the LGBTQ community kind of like rose up and it is shameful to be hateful towards that community and that's what like the people who were opposing but Bud Light for spotlighting her was very much misogynistic, very like yeah homophobic and so they looked silly and so
00:35:04
Steph
So the masses were like, no, I support Bud Light. It kind of caused the the the flip. People were like, oh, I'm buying Bud Light. I haven't drank Bud Light since I was 21, but...
00:35:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But actually, Steph, Bud Light's revenues were dramatically hit in a bad way.
00:35:22
Steph
Really?
00:35:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
they They lost a lot of money.
00:35:23
Steph
Because I... Mm-hmm, interesting.
00:35:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
A lot of money.
00:35:27
Steph
I think I must have seen the flip side.
00:35:27
Manni
But you said that they didn't put out the product.
00:35:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:35:30
Manni
You said they didn't put out the product.
00:35:30
Steph
It was...
00:35:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It was just the collaboration with this influencer. It was just them like essentially taking a stand um you know in support of the LGBTQ community.
00:35:35
Steph
oh
00:35:39
Steph
and see.
00:35:44
Manni
Yeah.
00:35:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And that rubbed their clientele wrong.
00:35:44
Steph
I see maybe.
00:35:49
Manni
Well, I think that this is like actually a conversation about, um we're talking about companies and products and also law and legislation.
00:36:01
Manni
So the successful boycotts or quote unquote successful boycotts were changing laws.
00:36:06
Steph
Wah, mm-hmm.
00:36:07
Manni
The company cannot change laws. So hitting a company in the product, hitting a company by not purchasing their product, might not lead to legislative change because they don't have influence in our government.
00:36:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No.
00:36:21
Manni
So I think that that's part of why we don't see a success with boycotts because we're talking about boycotting companies and organizations. The reason why they were effective before was because it was about um making legislative change to our rights and our freedoms.
00:36:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, I think...
00:36:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I think...
00:36:38
Manni
But we have the right and the freedom to purchase from whatever company and organization that we want.
00:36:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right. I think the equivalent would be, well or like the purpose behind like boycotting a company, for example, is to effectively put it out of business, to boycott it to the effect to the point where they can't make a profit and therefore they go out of business.
00:36:43
Steph
Yeah.
00:36:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So that would be the equivalent to a legislative change.
00:36:58
Manni
that's That's what I'm saying.
00:37:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
but
00:37:02
Manni
That's why I think people don't do it because it's like, who cares if this company goes out of business, it's not affecting my rights or my individual freedoms in any sense.
00:37:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a It's just like less important to them.
00:37:11
Manni
Yeah. yeah and it's like it if it doesn't affect my rights and individual freedoms, and I can purchase from another company right like hobby lobby, for example, I don't I don't purchase things from hobby lobby I don't need to post it on social media I don't need to tell anybody about it because I just fucking shop at michael's.
00:37:27
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:37:28
Manni
or etsy you know what I mean.
00:37:29
Steph
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:37:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, that's interesting. but do you think but like I feel like there's people who in the act of you know boycotting a company are are trying to say, like everyone should do this, this company should not be in business, they should not have our money.
00:37:51
Manni
I think a better example of this is Planned Parenthood.
00:37:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um
00:37:54
Steph
Ooh.
00:37:57
Manni
People standing outside of Planned Parenthood and trying to book boycott Planned Parenthood because that has more of a direct impact on legislative rights and freedoms. Personally, I see you pondering.
00:38:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, I'm pondering. Sorry.
00:38:12
Steph
Yeah.
00:38:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Because but I think the thing that I'm trying to debate in my head is um like a boycott is not exclusively about legislative rights and freedoms.
00:38:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I understand though the point that that rally is more passion. And so it may get a better following or outcome. But I think you can boycott a lot of things to based on you know whatever whatever the topic or the flavor of the week is. And the point with companies is about putting them out of business. But like we're nowhere near doing that in in any way these days. And I think it's because of access to information.
00:39:00
Manni
Has a company ever been boycotted to the point of being put out of business?
00:39:05
Steph
Oh.
00:39:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um I can't say that I Googled that, but I am certain I could find one.
00:39:09
Manni
Not very.
00:39:11
Steph
oh
00:39:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh But that's not boycotted. that's just they they They did not have the technology.
00:39:16
Manni
Advanced technology.
00:39:20
Manni
Yeah.
00:39:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Okay, so why don't we then continue on? Because I think where I would love to get your thoughts is, and and I think maybe where this conversation is going a bit, is in today's world of information, is cancel culture kind of another tool to promote your product.
00:39:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah Kind of this concept of like any news is good news. ah So you're getting attention to the good or service that it is, like that you're selling. And this is like super cynical of me, but like, do you think that there is some form of marketing out there where companies are like, it doesn't matter what gets us in the news cycle.
00:40:00
Manni
Hmm.
00:40:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
If people are talking about us, that's good publicity.
00:40:04
Manni
Hmm.
00:40:07
Manni
Oh.
00:40:07
Steph
I think that's where I was going with the Bud Light thing. like I think that when people were outraged, their regular clientele, that group of people who are still drinking Bud Light,
00:40:19
Steph
yeah was impacted by this like, oh, not my beers want to be LGBT, you know, what i whatever. And I'm so sorry. This is so judgmental.
00:40:31
Steph
What? Who am I? I'm that's terrible.
00:40:34
Manni
She has a certain picture in her head of people who dreamt about it.
00:40:36
Steph
I have a, okay, because I remember Kid Rock had his cases of Bud Light and he was shooting them with guns and stuff.
00:40:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:40:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yep. He was like shooting them.
00:40:46
Manni
Yeah.
00:40:46
Steph
And so maybe there was a temporary um dip in sales, but I feel like after that, there was a rallying of people who were like, I haven't had Bud Light in a minute, but I'm certainly going to have it now.
00:40:59
Steph
And I feel like, and that kind of speaks back to our last episode with my silo, you know, like my social media was filled with people who were like, I'm drinking Bud Light, you know, because they were like, kind of doing the antithesis of what was happening to Bud Light.
00:41:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:41:14
Manni
Oh, yeah.
00:41:15
Steph
Does that make sense? I feel like, I feel like that to your point,
00:41:17
Manni
yeah
00:41:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It does.
00:41:19
Manni
Like Ben and Jerry's.
00:41:21
Steph
like but like men and cherries exactly like when they do their posts the people underneath are like your ice cream is really freaking expensive but i just bought a pint
00:41:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:41:31
Steph
Because I love what you're saying and what you're doing.
00:41:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh
00:41:32
Manni
support
00:41:34
Steph
I feel like Bud Light's campaign after really called people out like you, so do you not support the LGBTQ community? Like, and it made people who were boycotting them like they're like, bye, you're not welcome here then.
00:41:47
Steph
Like, don't buy our products because we this is what we stand for. We stand for inclusivity. And so I feel like the people who got loud and yes, their sales dipped, I feel like it opened up a channel for people who maybe weren't necessarily drinking Bud Light um and using it as a, okay, well, that's my beer mouth.
00:42:06
Steph
We're, if we're, if we're going to be buying light beers, you know what I mean?
00:42:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:42:11
Manni
You are throwing so much, Jane.
00:42:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
if we're gonna be drinking.
00:42:18
Steph
I hear it.
00:42:19
Manni
like
00:42:20
Steph
What? My embarrassed.
00:42:21
Manni
ah so
00:42:22
Steph
I am throwing so much shade at you. My apologies. I don't know who I think I am right now.
00:42:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I love it, we're here for it.
00:42:29
Manni
e I think that this very, I wasn't considering this, but I think that this is
00:42:30
Steph
Oh my god.
00:42:39
Manni
oddly familiar with our conversation last week about the media, you know, of like when we say the media, does that also include corporations and their marketing and their promotion?
00:42:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It is, yeah.
00:42:44
Steph
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:42:49
Steph
Mmm.
00:42:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mmm. Yes.
00:42:52
Steph
Yes.
00:42:52
Manni
Like is that what we're also talking about here and how are we defining the media into your point, Karen, of like the influence that it has?
00:42:55
Steph
Yes.
00:43:00
Manni
Maybe it doesn't have a very, ah maybe it has more of an indirect impact on legislation and the collective consciousness of the people to make them aware of the way that they are voting by who they put on their product.
00:43:18
Manni
right So now you have this propaganda machine where it's like you automatically associate Kid Rock with right-wing media and ah conservatism.
00:43:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:43:31
Manni
right And so if he is on a certain product, that kind of shifts your consciousness.
00:43:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Subliminal, mm-hmm.
00:43:38
Manni
Yeah. to support or not support purchasing a product and maybe they have so much money that they don't give a fuck if you don't purchase their product or not.
00:43:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:43:50
Manni
They have succeeded in putting that messaging and signaling into your consciousness that you will now vote a certain way and that political candidate now has access to them and their organization giving them more
00:43:50
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:43:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yep.
00:44:06
Manni
um power to do whatever it is with the other products
00:44:08
Steph
Uh-huh.
00:44:14
Manni
that they are doing that isn't even directly involved with the product that they're selling to you.
Politics, Marketing, and Global Perspectives
00:44:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, it's like um creating the ultimate emotional um connection to a product by like tapping into like your core beliefs, right? So it's like, yeah, oh the propaganda machine you said, that's what like sticks with me is this like very intertwined world between our companies and our politics that's becoming kind of like frightening in a way you know in how they tap into our like very emotional responses to the world around us.
00:44:55
Steph
Yes, because the politics is part of what causes people to want to boycott. It's like this circle too. like
00:45:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:45:01
Manni
Yeah.
00:45:02
Steph
you know um if Like, you know, we're talking about um Hobby Lobby and, you know, not supporting women in there who work for them to have birth control or whatever. And that's like like legislation which causes people to say, well, then I'm not going to shop there. um Is this because when you said that, Manika, you were talking about When we're talking about media, we're also talking about companies and their marketing.
00:45:31
Steph
And like companies and their marketing have way more direct contact with us now, especially with social media. um to you know people you know If you follow products you like.
00:45:43
Steph
you know if they you know So they're reaching us like constantly.
00:45:43
Manni
Mm.
00:45:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Or like these collaborations with influencers where it's like specific individuals are suddenly weaving products into their content that we're like getting these subliminal messages that we don't even realize we're getting.
00:45:50
Steph
and florence sort
00:46:00
Steph
But to that point with the subliminal messages. And so tell me if this is like not related at all is what we're talking about.
00:46:06
Steph
But my brain went here is like pharmaceutical companies. And you know the argument that you know pet they are kind of like they're in the pockets of of politicians.
00:46:06
Manni
Mm.
00:46:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:46:22
Steph
And so, you know, that's why like insurance, you know, pharmaceutical and insurance companies, and like you know what happened with the CEO of, you know, healthcare, care um and the uprising around that it's just like, I don't know, my brain went there because of um
00:46:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm.
00:46:41
Steph
messaging and access to the information that we're given and how, you know, what keeps us sick, you know, and why do we need insurance and stuff. It's just, I don't know, my brain went down this rabbit hole of just like, um, all these corporations that have a huge influence on our legislation, you know, like thinking about the and NRA and, um, gun lobby and all of that kind of stuff.
00:46:51
Manni
man
00:46:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:47:06
Steph
Like, is this related at all? Cause that's what my, I kind of jumped off the cliff here.
00:47:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. I mean, we we we could have a whole season dedicated to this, I think.
00:47:13
Steph
I'm in it.
00:47:15
Manni
The conspiracy board has been built.
00:47:18
Steph
yeah
00:47:21
Steph
It's been built.
00:47:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
hu I'm not um not normally one for conspiracy theories, but your comments here are quite intriguing. um i do think I do think all of these things are intertwined. I think at the end of the day, ah i I would be curious to do a bit of research on like what other countries around the world do relative to boycotts or cancel culture because it is such a big topic in the US. And as I was like researching it, it felt very cultural for us. like We have a history with boycotts and like driving change as a result of that type of activity.
00:48:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Yeah, and so I guess I'm wondering in my mind, like is this a phenomenon because of the like individualistic, capitalistic culture that we operate in?
00:48:14
Manni
Hmm.
00:48:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Or is this something that's more broad, like human nature? I don't know the answer to that question, but maybe something we can explore in a future episode.
00:48:23
Manni
Yeah. I love that wandering. That's a really, like, wonderful perspective to take of like, is this a very unique American phenomenon versus the world?
00:48:34
Steph
Oh my gosh, I have like the best confessional.
00:48:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, it's perfect because I was going to steer us into confessional. So Steph, take it away.
00:48:46
Manni
Yeah.
00:48:47
Steph
Well, I feel like when
00:48:54
Steph
I don't know where that came from.
00:48:55
Manni
Not the click.
00:48:55
Steph
i I'm sassy today.
00:48:56
Manni
She is sassy.
00:49:01
Steph
I'm so sorry.
00:49:02
Manni
yeah
00:49:02
Steph
um So I feel like Americans, because of capitalism, tend to be individualistic. And and that's why boycotts and such just don't take off, because you know we don't care about each other.
00:49:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:49:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh Yeah, that's fascinating.
00:49:20
Steph
We care about ourselves.
00:49:22
Manni
Yeah.
00:49:22
Steph
And what makes me think of it is our response, the United States response to COVID and how people were so, you know, like at the beginning of it, at the very beginning, you know, it was very much like we need to, as a community, wear masks and limit social and and and people are like, my body, my freedom.
00:49:30
Manni
yeah
00:49:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
They were scared.
00:49:45
Steph
yeah you know And I felt like that was a point when I realized that the United States, because of capitalism and individualistic perspective, we did not rally and did not come together to beat COVID as quickly as we could have, you know while other countries really um didn't buck the plan to you know
00:50:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
her
00:50:09
Steph
you know, stay in and all that kind of stuff. But I think that's right there.
00:50:12
Manni
Yeah.
00:50:12
Steph
Why? And everybody wants to be right. um And everybody wants to argue and doesn't, you know, look at it from a holistic perspective.
00:50:24
Manni
Yeah, well, that's the like to i I do have a confession, but I want to respond to that. like That is the foundation that America was built on. you know It's funny that we're coming back to the like conversation of the boycott because while we were so morally superior about the taxation without representation, we were still importing slaves into the country.
00:50:32
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:50:41
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:50:45
Manni
And we were the last country to ban the slave trade.
00:50:45
Steph
Yep.
00:50:49
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:50:51
Manni
So we were built on this right I'm using this word lightly, principle of making money.
00:50:59
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:50:59
Manni
So to go to you know forward that with COVID, people started saying, I'm not wearing a mask for you because I'm losing money from not opening my business, right?
00:51:08
Steph
Money. Mm-hmm.
00:51:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:51:13
Manni
Which has been a thread of the consciousness of American citizens since the beginning of time, and that is because of slavery.
00:51:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:51:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm.
00:51:22
Manni
Um, so that, that, that, I don't know, right there is like what we think of that.
00:51:27
Steph
Yep.
00:51:27
Manni
And then I was also thinking of, this is also a conversation. The last two episodes have been a conversation about transparency. You know, there's so much, the reason why we have conspiracy theories and the reason why we have all these wonderings is because we're not trans, the government is not transparent with us about.
00:51:45
Manni
the intertwineings between the businesses and the major corporations and the legislations and the Congress people.
00:51:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:51:53
Manni
And there's this mystery. I use that very lightly of like what's happening behind closed doors. I'm thinking about Hamilton and like, no one else was in the room when it happened in the room, and and they're and and you know?
00:52:09
Manni
And it's like, again, that has been a part of our, our historical thread of this American flag of like secrecy.
00:52:15
Steph
Yes.
00:52:17
Steph
Oh.
00:52:18
Manni
And so we have nothing to do but to like question like what is really going on here because there's such a lack of transparency
00:52:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And...
00:52:28
Manni
And why do they have that much power to be able to do that, right? To like withhold information from us about where the money is going, what the conversation looked like, what additional products they're purchasing, who's making the product. I don't know. but so it It goes back to what we were saying last week about the lack of ethical principles and integrity.
00:52:52
Manni
and And until we can get to be a society where that becomes important, capitalism is always going to win.
00:52:59
Steph
Yeah.
00:52:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:53:00
Steph
Dang girl.
00:53:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Dang. I thought this was going to be a light, fun conversation about cancel culture.
00:53:07
Steph
okay
00:53:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Here we are solving the world's problems again.
00:53:11
Manni
and You know they are.
00:53:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Are you listening, America?
00:53:16
Manni
Speaking of canceled, we'll be canceled in two weeks when this gets out onto
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:53:19
Manni
the ether.
00:53:20
Steph
Oh my gosh, on my impressions this week alone.
00:53:23
Manni
right
00:53:23
Steph
I'm so sorry. It just bubbled up out of me.
00:53:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Steph is getting canceled.
00:53:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, well, this was lovely.
00:53:33
Manni
well
00:53:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Next week it gets lighter with people. We'll talk our favorite, our favorite debate.
00:53:41
Manni
You're promising something. This marketing that you're promising, I don't know.
00:53:45
Steph
I don't know if it'll get lighter.
00:53:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Keep listening.
00:53:48
Manni
Yes.
00:53:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um You lighter like Bill Cosby. Anyways.
00:53:55
Steph
So light.
00:53:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
On that note, please like, subscribe, follow, all that good stuff. We're on Instagram. We're on the TikToks. We're on, I don't know where else, Manny.
00:54:05
Manni
You You too.
00:54:06
Steph
YouTube.
00:54:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And we would love some action so we can keep doing this work.
00:54:08
Steph
Apple.
00:54:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So thank you and see you next week.
00:54:14
Manni
Bye, Karen.