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Algorithms, Headlines, & Control: How the Media Shapes Reality
47 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to Season 2 of the You Can Call Me Karen Podcast! In this episode, we will discuss the question: Is the media the 4th branch of government? In a world where news is often shaped by algorithms and sensational headlines, this episode breaks down the blurred lines between news and entertainment, while questioning the balance between freedom of speech and the need for regulation in the information age. Tune in for an eye-opening discussion on the media's power, its responsibility to the public, and how government control might shape what we see and hear.
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Links to sources referenced in this episode:
The 4th Estate as the 4th Branch
Mass Exodus from Media Shows (Read the comments)
News can’t be unbiased Tik Tok
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
Recommended
Transcript
Is Media the Fourth Branch of Government?
00:00:24
Manni
Welcome to the You Can Call Me Can podcast where we will be trying to uncover the answer to, is the media the fourth branch of government? We want to talk today about our echo chambers of misinformation on social media and why it seems as if there is a growing mistrust in the daily news.
Hosts Reconnect with Listeners
00:00:46
Manni
It's me, Manny, and I am joined today with Steph
00:00:51
Steph
Hello.
00:00:52
Manni
and the only woman in the world who could take a spiteful stereotypical label and turn it into a persona where she is beloved by all caring.
00:01:06
Steph
Okay.
00:01:08
Manni
Hello, guys. Welcome back. We have been on break for some time. relaxing and eating and indulging and god knows what they are nodding their head in affirmation um it was nice right guys to take a little bit of a break and reset but we missed our listeners we were talking about you guys the whole time we were off all good things all good things
00:01:25
Steph
you.
00:01:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ow, ow!
00:01:36
Steph
which personally
00:01:39
Manni
um So before we jump into today's episode, I was hoping you guys could catch us up to speed. um One of the conversation starters that I was thinking you could tell our listeners about is something you enjoyed or might recommend since your time off. Yeah, Karen, how about we start with you, my love?
00:02:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Great.
Karen's TV Show Recommendation
00:02:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um o Well, first off, I have been off of work almost like entirely for about two weeks now.
00:02:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So I'm feeling amazing.
00:02:17
Manni
Wow, that is so important.
00:02:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um It's wild and mostly home during that time with a short trip to Cleveland. But Uh, so because of that, I've been able to watch some TV, which I don't normally get a ton of TV watching time and, um, shrinking is drinking is my recommendation.
00:02:33
Manni
Ooh, I love this for you. Yes, shrinking.
00:02:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It is on Apple TV and it is Jason Siegel and Brett Goldstein and is that right?
00:02:51
Manni
man Harrison Ford.
00:02:55
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Harrison Ford and the woman who looks like Steph and I'm blanking on her name.
00:02:58
Manni
Yes. Jay Tilly.
00:03:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She is fire. So watch that show.
00:03:04
Manni
um
00:03:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I cannot recommend it enough. It's all the good feels. um It's like real.
00:03:11
Manni
What's it about? Tell our listeners what it's about.
00:03:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's like um Jason Seagal. Seagal? Doesn't sound right.
00:03:18
Manni
Yes.
00:03:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Is a therapist.
00:03:19
Steph
I think.
00:03:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
who lost his wife, that's not a spoiler, it happens in the very first episode, um in an accident and and he has a teenage daughter and he works with two other therapists, Harrison Ford and Jay, was it Jay you said?
00:03:36
Manni
Uh, yeah, Jay Tilly, but yes.
00:03:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um
00:03:40
Manni
I'm going to look up.
00:03:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I know I feel terrible, but and we'll just call her Steph. um And they, yeah. And so they're just like all therapists with their own problems working through them together.
00:03:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And they have this like network of friends and it's just very um lovely. It's like, I, it makes me feel good. It's sad. It's happy. It's all, and it's funny.
00:04:04
Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:04:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's like really funny.
00:04:05
Manni
It's a good sad. It's a good sad.
00:04:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. It's like makes you, yeah. um So they just wrapped up season two and I believe
00:04:12
Manni
It's the pretty, if you like.
The Appeal of Narrative Content
00:04:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
There's at least one more season. I could watch it for forever.
00:04:20
Manni
Jessica Williams is her name.
00:04:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So, Jessica Williams.
00:04:22
Steph
Oh, I love Jessica Williams.
00:04:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
What the hell did we call her? Oh, you know her?
00:04:27
Manni
J. Toad.
00:04:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:04:28
Steph
Yes, she was on The Daily Show.
00:04:28
Manni
And yeah, she was on the Today Show.
00:04:31
Steph
The Daily Show.
00:04:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was, yeah, a correspondent. Yeah. um Yeah.
00:04:34
Steph
Yeah. I love her.
00:04:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And she's so, yeah.
00:04:37
Steph
And if you guys think I look like her, well, wow, please.
00:04:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
A lot.
00:04:40
Manni
You do.
00:04:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I think you look like her a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You have that same like shaped face and
00:04:44
Steph
She cute.
00:04:47
Manni
Yeah, she's beautiful.
00:04:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She is, and ah her character is so great on that show too.
00:04:50
Manni
Her character are so enduring, yeah.
00:04:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She's so funny. Yeah, so 10 out of 10, shrinking.
00:04:56
Manni
And if you if you like Ted Lasso, it's the same people who wrote for Ted Lasso.
00:04:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a
00:05:01
Steph
Okay.
00:05:01
Manni
If you like Scrubs, I was a huge Scrubs fan back in college.
00:05:06
Manni
It's like Scrubs and tessla Ted Lasso met and had a baby. And it is just a beautiful, the writing is, the writing especially is like just so clever.
00:05:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
The writing is fire.
00:05:21
Manni
And I think it's the number one show on TV right now. So I would echo that.
00:05:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Absolutely.
00:05:26
Manni
Yeah.
00:05:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And then on on the darker side, we've also been watching Silo, which is also on Apple. Holy shit, like a human apocalypse kind of vibe. It's like the opposite end of the spectrum.
00:05:37
Steph
Okay.
00:05:39
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But, you know, for our listeners who aren't in into like feel good happy, Silo is the answer.
00:05:43
Steph
the okay hand
00:05:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Really messed up.
00:05:48
Manni
Well, thank you for providing both for everyone.
00:05:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But also enjoyed it.
00:05:52
Steph
yeah wow well i also was off for two weeks um so yeah and like i was
00:05:53
Manni
We are an inclusive podcast.
00:05:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm here. I am, yes, I'm just trying to be inclusive. That's it.
00:05:59
Manni
Steph, what about you? Any recommendations or anything that you enjoyed while being off?
00:06:09
Manni
Yay! From dance and school?
00:06:12
Steph
from
Steph's Digital Detox
00:06:12
Steph
dance and school. So like last day of school was the Friday, last day of dance was the Saturday, and then I was genuinely off. um It was like a busy start because I still like had to do all the presents and all that stuff that I hadn't really gotten to do. But once all that was done, I really like unplugged. So like I wasn't really on my phone very much.
00:06:37
Steph
um And I kind of like made an effort to like I saw this thing on um Instagram and it was like the immediacy culture like how quickly we feel like we need to respond to people.
00:06:51
Steph
and like that kind of stuff.
00:06:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
who Yeah, I love that.
00:06:51
Steph
And I really just was kind of deliberate about like setting aside time that I wasn't like available, I guess. And i so I felt way more present um spending time with my baby and with Steve and just, I just really feel more rested than I have in a long time.
00:07:03
Manni
Hmm. Hmm.
00:07:11
Steph
So I recommend
00:07:12
Manni
Yeah.
00:07:13
Steph
shutting it down and um and i've got a detox i no like i was i still was on social media i had i admit i'm like it's i'm addicted like i the scroll but like i just was not as available to like like and people um and i just kind of
00:07:15
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yes.
00:07:15
Manni
Oh, a detox from social media.
00:07:21
Manni
Not that.
00:07:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:07:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
People. Mm-hmm.
00:07:40
Steph
I don't know, it felt good. I feel good. I'm ready to go back to school.
00:07:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ay
00:07:44
Steph
And I never really say that. i think like I'm seeing all these like teacher memes that are like, oh, I'm not ready to go back and all that stuff.
00:07:47
Manni
Oh,
00:07:52
Steph
And I'm usually right there. And I really honestly feel ready to go. So yeah,
00:07:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
That's amazing.
00:07:58
Manni
that is wonderful.
00:07:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I am with you though on the phone. I definitely spent a lot less time on my phone. Like I was just very conscious to like set it down and be present.
00:08:04
Steph
Set it down.
00:08:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And the last couple of days have not been as good probably because we're at the tail end of the two weeks, but it does make a really, really big difference in my like mental state and my ability to remember things.
00:08:07
Manni
Mm hmm.
00:08:10
Steph
Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
You know, like, I just feel like the phone really messes me up.
00:08:22
Manni
Yeah, I
Manny's New Ventures and Family Time
00:08:23
Steph
Oh,
00:08:24
Manni
similarly to what Steph was saying.
00:08:29
Manni
just setting up a boundary, not that I have to tell anybody else that this is what I'm doing, but more so, um Mark as unread has become one of my favorite features on iPhone because I don't have to respond to a text message if I don't necessarily know how I want to respond, right?
00:08:39
Steph
yeah.
00:08:43
Steph
That
00:08:48
Manni
And sometimes I
00:08:49
Steph
is it right there.
00:08:51
Manni
Right. And so like Mark is on red allows for me to come back to it and not forget about it, which is why I was responding so frequently before because I was like, well, I got to respond now before I forget about it.
00:09:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:09:03
Steph
Yes. Yes.
00:09:04
Manni
So now I use that tool as a feature um to help me to just set that boundary for myself.
00:09:11
Steph
Yes.
00:09:11
Manni
Right. So that I can have more clarity with in presence. with with all the conversations that I'm having going on. And I want to put a pin in that for um our conversation for today, because I think that that will come up a little bit later. um For me, my ah recommendation, and again, I just feel like I'm a little bit behind on this, but I too took a day to to rest. i'm i'm
00:09:43
Manni
You guys can follow me on social media on my other account, educationalism method. i'm I'm starting a new business um model for for students and teenagers.
00:09:53
Manni
So I've been kind of really preoccupied with that. But on New Year's, I took a day to really just be still. And my daughter, Brielle, asked if I wanted to watch Wicked with her.
00:10:05
Manni
And let me tell you that bag on movie.
00:10:09
Steph
I know.
00:10:11
Manni
Holy moly, it is phenomenal. The costumes, the singing, um that the energy between the two characters, it just, it all worked for me. I've seen Wicked on Broadway before twice and I absolutely love this story and this plot.
00:10:31
Manni
And the movie did it justice. So I was just so happy about that.
00:10:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a
00:10:36
Manni
And I've nonstop been listening to the Wicked soundtrack. I love the colors. I love everything about that movie. So if you have not seen Wicked and you are in a place to be still for three-ish hours.
00:10:52
Steph
I heard it was like 245.
00:10:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Three hours?
00:10:53
Manni
yeah ah Two and a half.
00:10:57
Steph
have
00:10:57
Manni
Yeah.
00:10:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Whoa.
00:10:58
Manni
Yeah, but we watched it when it was out streaming.
00:10:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
That's a commitment.
00:11:01
Manni
So that was how I think I was able to like, yeah, could really commit to it because it is long.
00:11:03
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Helpful.
00:11:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I didn't realize how long it was.
00:11:09
Manni
So yeah.
00:11:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I haven't seen it yet, but it's I will see it.
00:11:12
Manni
And it is just part one.
00:11:13
Steph
I will see it.
00:11:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:11:14
Steph
you know Yeah.
00:11:15
Manni
Yeah, yeah.
00:11:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I've already heard the music.
00:11:16
Steph
I'm dying.
00:11:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's amazing.
00:11:18
Steph
Yeah.
00:11:19
Manni
The music, like the Defying Gravity, I cannot get over, i have I can not get enough of that song.
00:11:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm.
00:11:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:11:26
Manni
so Anyway, that would be my recommendation if you haven't listened to or watched Wicked yet.
00:11:26
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:11:32
Manni
Please check it out. it has so It's like almost an allegory. It has so much symbolism in it, and it is just a wonderful piece of art.
00:11:37
Steph
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:11:40
Manni
I anticipate it is going to get a lot of awards this season.
00:11:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:11:43
Manni
so
00:11:44
Steph
Yeah. Get that Cynthia Revo in here.
The Credibility of News Sources
00:11:59
Manni
So today we're gonna cover a topic we've been discussing in the group chat for quite some time, and that is the media. The subtle messages, the uprise of so-called journalistic experts on social media platforms, and what makes a news source credible. These are all things that we're gonna be looking at today, but before we do any of that, girlies, we gotta get to it.
00:12:26
Manni
Okay, who you calling Karen this week? Steph, since Karen kicked us off, I'm gonna have you go first on this.
00:12:37
Steph
um Okay, so um I live in like a cute like suburb town or whatever and Whatever and we the we the city that I live in has like a holiday parade and a tree lighting at the beginning of December and and it's like it's just kind of like a festive whatever Santa clicks the button and the tree lights up and people bring their families out um I don't know go because it was furry ended up being freezing that night and um whatever but I thank you thank you for I feel very validated that you said that out loud because I was like
00:13:14
Manni
Black people don't do the cold.
00:13:20
Manni
I see you girl.
00:13:22
Steph
Do you see me?
00:13:23
Manni
Yes.
00:13:23
Steph
Thank you. um And so prior to the event, um you know, the the social media for the city like posts like the trees here, like we we found the tree and um they show pictures of it being carted to the city.
00:13:24
Manni
ah
00:13:38
Steph
It's a really nice cool tree. There's all sorts of like hubbub, like it's coming those, you know, holidays or whatever. and there's this guy in our town who's like
Local Controversy and Inclusivity Debate
00:13:48
Steph
I don't know want to be like super sleuth or something he like he has his own like journal journal or like news and he sends out a newsletter to community members and um he is like retired photographer and he does take absolutely beautiful photos but he writes an article to go with it
00:14:10
Steph
And he announces to everyone that the tree will not have a star at the top of it this year. And that was a deliberate choice of the city because they wanted the event to be more inclusive.
00:14:22
Manni
Hmm.
00:14:25
Steph
And the star has a religious connotation, like the star.
00:14:25
Manni
Hmm. Hmm.
00:14:30
Steph
So like the tree they kept, Santa they kept, but they did not put the star on top.
00:14:34
Manni
Santa they kept though, Santa.
00:14:36
Steph
Santa and the tree.
00:14:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And the tree.
00:14:37
Manni
right
00:14:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I mean, these are all Christmas symbols, I don't understand.
00:14:41
Steph
They're Christmas, but not Christian. Santa and reindeer and all that stuff is technically the star of Bethlehem.
00:14:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
What is the star?
00:14:50
Steph
That's how they found the Wiseman.
00:14:52
Manni
So Karen, I'm just kidding.
00:14:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I mean, I'm not Christian.
00:14:55
Steph
All right.
00:14:57
Manni
I don't know.
00:14:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I mean, it's just a star.
00:14:59
Manni
I was like,
00:15:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Okay, whatever.
00:15:01
Steph
OK.
00:15:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
i Okay.
00:15:03
Steph
Well, Karen, OK.
00:15:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just think if you're gonna have a tree in Santa, like why stop there?
00:15:10
Manni
Oh my goodness.
00:15:11
Steph
Okay, Karen, because that was the point of my story.
00:15:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I know, I know.
00:15:18
Steph
It's literally everything you just said. The whole, like, social media, like, universe blew up. Where's the star? What happened to the star? Like, he wrote the article, like, the city ditches the star this year or something like that.
00:15:33
Steph
So then it just created, like, this whole thing.
00:15:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh God.
00:15:37
Steph
And I think in
00:15:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Meanwhile, if they hadn't put a star up and said nothing, nobody would have noticed.
00:15:40
Manni
Nobody would have noticed.
00:15:42
Steph
Yes, but and he had he not done like he posted it and then it riled everybody up um I think at the same time there was an organization that has a religious um affiliation and they also do a parade and theirs is super religious like they have a banner that says like Jesus is the reason for the season and they have chaplains and stuff that does a parade and
00:15:45
Manni
Right.
00:15:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right.
00:15:47
Manni
The most.
00:15:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:15:48
Manni
Yeah.
00:16:08
Steph
they didn't have the funds and they asked the city to fund it and the city was like you can partner with our parade and you're welcome to be a part of it but just know that our parade is not going to include the big Jesus banner and we want it to be more inclusive and more secular if because separation of church and state like the city just wanted to make sure that
00:16:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:16:27
Steph
And so simultaneously that the star was being removed, that organization didn't decided that they weren't going to pay the fee to be a part of the city thing.
00:16:38
Steph
And so their part was canceled. And so it just seems like at the same time, Westerville was like, a war on Christians, like kind of thing is what it kind of like,
00:16:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, my God.
00:16:49
Manni
many
00:16:51
Steph
turned into and ah and I feel like at the root was the city just trying to be inclusive and kind of dig into not dig into but like the non-religious aspects of the holiday season would be like the tree and the Santa and all that stuff but not get like Jesus and the birth and the wise men and the mer like they just kind of wanted to leave
00:17:12
Manni
Did they invite other religious organizations to the parade?
00:17:17
Steph
Everybody is welcome to come to the parade, the the or religious, to participate.
00:17:19
Manni
to participate.
00:17:21
Steph
any Well, the the city puts on the parade and really all that's in it is like the police, the firefighters, Santa, like, it's just like city organization kind of a thing. And the religious group wanted to join, wanted the city to fund their thing.
00:17:36
Steph
And they're like, we can't fund your thing, but if you pay, or you can pay us and we can hire police to have your parade, but they couldn't afford to have their Christian parade.
00:17:46
Manni
I see.
00:17:46
Steph
And they were like, well, you're welcome to join our parade.
00:17:46
Manni
Okay.
00:17:48
Steph
And they were like, well, we can't join your parade if we're not allowed to hold our Jesus banner. And so they they just canceled it all together. But yeah, yeah.
00:17:57
Manni
Wow.
00:17:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, that's some drama.
00:17:59
Steph
So I was, isn't that?
00:17:59
Manni
no
00:18:01
Steph
And I was just like, I don't know, I just found found it interesting that the city was up in arms. A, like you said, if no one's brought it to anyone's attention, no one would to have noticed. Or maybe they would have, but it wouldn't have been such a big deal.
00:18:15
Steph
And B, I feel like in an effort to be inclusive, they kind of like like made people mad and I don't know. um just I was ah was a little bothered.
00:18:25
Steph
I think turnout was still good, but like I just was all the commentary.
00:18:28
Manni
Yeah. So who's the Karen? Who are we calling the Karen in this story?
00:18:33
Steph
That's a good question. I was i was going with the community on that.
00:18:37
Manni
Oh.
00:18:37
Karen, Steph, & Manni
like everyone who's posted on social media.
00:18:39
Steph
Posting on social media and
00:18:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I don't know. I think that guy who had to write the story about the star is a bit of a Karen.
00:18:43
Steph
Tony is probably the, yeah, yeah.
00:18:45
Manni
ah thank
00:18:47
Steph
I think the way like his headline, Chad, oh, did we ever, is it Chad?
00:18:47
Manni
a
00:18:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Chad.
00:18:52
Steph
What did we decide on that?
00:18:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I like Chad.
00:18:55
Steph
Chad.
00:18:55
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm going Chad.
00:18:56
Manni
It's Chad for now.
00:18:57
Steph
I think it was the Chad article um and calling, calling the city out. Cause like he obviously has an agenda. Like he's like trying to act like he's a journalist, but he had kind of an angle and
00:19:10
Manni
Oh my God, this is so good for our conversation for today. I think we're gonna dive in deeper into that.
00:19:13
Steph
I kind of, I had two stories and I had saved this one for, I did this one for this one.
00:19:16
Manni
Yeah.
00:19:18
Manni
Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, we'll have to have to look more um into that intention.
00:19:24
Steph
Because I saw his account and his profile picture is like one of those like blue American flags, like then blue, yeah, then blue line.
00:19:33
Manni
Oh, like blue lines. Oh.
00:19:37
Steph
And I was like, this multiple.
00:19:40
Manni
Oh, so you, okay.
00:19:40
Steph
So.
00:19:41
Manni
I, okay.
00:19:42
Steph
while
00:19:42
Manni
We can dissect that a little bit further later. Karen, do you have a story for us?
00:19:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I do. It's a little more benign, I feel like, but I just had this strange encounter.
Grocery Store Etiquette
00:19:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um So we were, I think I mentioned we were in Cleveland over New Year's and staying with some friends.
00:19:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I ran out on New Year's Eve to get champagne for New Year's. And um I like, I had this nice bottle of champagne that was gifted to me on Christmas.
00:20:08
Manni
Okay.
00:20:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I, got super into champagne over the holidays.
00:20:17
Steph
Thank you.
00:20:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So I was like, I'm going to buy a couple of nice bottles of champagne and it'll be fun, whatever. So I went to the store, got a couple of nice bottles, was checking out and then Cashier like took them and she was like, oh, you're buying the expensive bottles.
00:20:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I was like,
00:20:36
Manni
evening
00:20:39
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um, like, how how am I supposed to respond in that moment?
00:20:44
Manni
This is how I would have responded. Throwing my hair back.
00:20:47
Steph
give a
00:20:49
Manni
Yes! so and
00:20:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
i i like I was like, oh, yeah, we're having a party. um I said, we're having a party. I was sent for champagne. And she was like, um she was like they better be reimbursing you.
00:21:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I was this is none of your business, first of all.
00:21:07
Manni
At a party?
00:21:08
Steph
Business! a
00:21:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It was just the most awkward encounter. I didn't know how to react. I don't know. it's like so It just felt so weird to me for you to be commenting on that how much money and I am or am not spending on my groceries.
00:21:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
but like It was a grocery store.
00:21:29
Manni
Yeah.
00:21:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It wasn't a liquor store. Anyways, I went i went back to my friend's house where we were staying and I was telling them about it. and My friend Adam was like, you should have responded with, these aren't expensive.
00:21:42
Manni
Oh, damn.
00:21:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I was like, why, why am I not passed around my feet?
00:21:48
Steph
hello
00:21:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Like that would have been just like not, these aren't expensive for me. Have a nice day.
00:21:54
Manni
Oh, damn burn.
00:21:57
Steph
And then you would have to have thrown money in her face.
00:22:05
Manni
I'm making it rain, bitch. You know who I am?
00:22:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Anyways, I don't know if that's like really a Karen, but it just made me so uncomfortable that I felt like a little Karen-y, you know?
00:22:14
Manni
i
00:22:19
Steph
I think is i think it's because we like when we were defining Karen last season, um we said that it's someone who can't mind their own business and Homegirl did not mind her own business.
00:22:19
Manni
I'm Karen, one of the co-hosts of the major podcast. You can call me Karen.
00:22:36
Manni
Oh.
00:22:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
That's true. Mind your business.
00:22:41
Steph
is
00:22:42
Manni
Mind your business, just mind your business.
00:22:43
Steph
magic
00:22:47
Steph
a
00:22:48
Manni
And those are your Karens for the week, guys.
00:23:03
Manni
So admittedly, I loved the sound of this topic when we first threw it out onto the Google Doc, but they're laughing because I love my Google documents and spreadsheets.
00:23:13
Steph
Oh.
00:23:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yes, you do.
00:23:21
Manni
But as I started to look more into it, I felt like I was researching for a college poli sci
Media as a Political Influencer
00:23:31
Manni
class. And this topic is very detailed. And it made me question if I was qualified to cover this on a podcast that is um you know, up and coming. And I am just this little mediocre podcast host. So um I'm going to not have imposter syndrome, and I'm going to try to push us forward today. um I think the breadth and the depth of this topic is really overwhelming. So to um help us like
00:24:03
Manni
create a framework, I think we should unlock some of the core subject matters in later episodes. What I was hoping today, we could talk about terminology, some of the history, and perhaps your future predictions based on current trends we see on social media. Steph, you just gave us a really good example with your you can call with who you call in Karen, story, some of the things that, you know, if we really are paying attention to this concept or this beast that we call the media, what are some of the subtle things that people are doing in order to influence our opinions through social media and journalism. so
00:24:41
Manni
I think it's important to frame this discussion in such a way that what we're really talking about here is um First Amendment rights and really the question of what authority does the government have to restrict access to information to its citizens.
00:24:59
Manni
We're recording right now January 5th. supposedly come January 19th, there is going to be a ban on the social media platform TikTok.
00:25:11
Manni
So we'll be following this story with a changing administration. So I think that's like what makes this conversation so seductive. In my opinion, it's less about speaking out about your government and more about the fact of what makes a source credible.
00:25:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm. Hmm.
00:25:28
Manni
um I also think going back to what Stephanie was saying, this is a conversation about urgency and immediacy. so Why is it that people run to TikTok to get their news as opposed to waiting till five o'clock when it comes on to one of the more credible stations on TV?
00:25:51
Manni
And then also when we say the media, who exactly are we talking about? Is it me putting on my ideological len glasses and saying the media pointing to the other end of the spectrum that and opposes my ideology?
00:26:01
Steph
Mm. Mm-hmm.
00:26:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:26:05
Steph
Mm.
00:26:08
Manni
Or is this what does this like entire term mean?
'Fourth Branch of Government' Explored
00:26:11
Manni
So that's why I think this was really hard for me to like like.
00:26:15
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm-hm.
00:26:17
Manni
conceptualize, and I hope that we can come to some more concrete ah answers, or maybe we won't, maybe it will lead us down more questions. But yeah, that's it how I wanted to approach today. So when I say the fourth branch of government, are you guys knowing what I mean by that in terms of they're both shaking their head? No. Have you ever heard that terminology before we started talking about it in the group chat?
00:26:46
Steph
Not before we started talking about it though.
00:26:49
Manni
um So, yeah, I heard this because I used to be a social studies teacher and I um taught government for about two or three years. And so this term has kind of stuck with me. And when I went to teachinghistory.org, they defined the fourth branch of government by stating journalist Douglas Kater entitled His 1959 book on the practical relationships between the government and the press, the fourth branch of government, convinced that in so far as the press did act as a true political player, rather than an unbiased observer of politics. It corrupted itself and went astray from its primary responsibility.
00:27:35
Manni
to convey important information and to act as a nonpartisan watchdog for the public against all trespassers on their rights. Lately,
00:27:46
Manni
Some political writers have used the phrase the fourth branch of government to mean the voters power to form law directly through petition or referendum.
Can Journalists Remain Unbiased?
00:27:56
Manni
So my first question to you guys um is do you guys think that journalists can remain unbiased in today's society? Have they ever been unbiased?
00:28:09
Manni
Why do we need them to be unbiased or even pretend to be? I'm thinking about ah Potter Pardon the Interruption is one of my like favorite sports shows on TV that's like one of the only shows that I watch on actual ah network TV that I religiously come back to.
00:28:30
Manni
And I'm thinking about um Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbon. And they are very um vocal about the teams that they support and don't support.
00:28:39
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:28:41
Manni
And so why is this OK in like sports industry and not in like our government and our like other journalism?
00:28:44
Steph
Thank you.
00:28:48
Manni
And why is it so? I don't know. I just I just let's start with can journalists remain unbiased in today's and society and have they ever been biased? What do you guys think about that?
00:28:59
Steph
I feel like there was a time when like journalists were unbiased and maybe there are journalists who currently are, but i I feel like those who are biased are the ones who rise to fame and and have the following. Like if you push your specific agenda, people follow because of the immediacy and the fact that you can find, you know, I think um in our description, we mentioned the team the term echo chamber, like people are attracted to hearing what they, what validates their thoughts. And I feel like journal, like, and I don't want to disrespect journalists, true journalists who do believe in
00:29:44
Steph
being you know straight down the middle. I loved that line that said unbiased observer of politics. like That's what I think journalists should be, but I feel like what has become popular with Fox News um and and then on the flip side, MSNBC um continuing to be an echo chamber, two organizations could cover the same story very, very differently and speaking to their specific audience. and And I guess that's just TV news journalists. I don't know, you know, newspapers and stuff, but um I don't know. i'm for I don't feel like the majority of journalism is unbiased any longer.
00:30:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but um I did not research this. However, I remember learning at some point that I think it was Reagan who changed regulations about journalism. And before Reagan, there was a requirement for a journalist or I guess a news organization to present ah effectively like both sides of a story. And then when Reagan put in place some I don't know, law, and I shouldn't say it was Reagan, it was probably Congress, right?
00:31:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
like But it was in his presidency where it took away that requirement to have to present both sides.
00:31:09
Manni
a
00:31:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Does that ring a bell for either of you?
00:31:12
Steph
Um, I was listening to, um, I listened to the radio still, um, with commercials and all. I don't know. I, I I do.
00:31:22
Manni
loseozer no i'm just kiddingdding
00:31:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
The radio? Is that what you said?
00:31:26
Manni
like That is bad business for the podcast industry stuff.
00:31:26
Steph
Um, it's, it's, I, I'm sorry, but I love to steer like, you know, ah through I don't know.
00:31:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
What is that? no
00:31:31
Manni
Don't admit that again.
00:31:36
Steph
Anyway. And, um, but through the radio, I listened to, um, The Breakfast Club. Charlamie Lagarde is my favorite. Um, and they were talking about, they, The Breakfast Club brings on politicians and he was saying that people were like,
00:31:53
Steph
Upset with the breakfast club because I can't remember who they brought on maybe it was Vivek Brahms whatever his last name is Ramaswami and People were giving them a hard time and he was like I am we are legally required To if I bring on so-and-so I have to bring on so-and-so like they're we there is governing There are requirements.
00:31:56
Manni
yeah
00:31:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Ramaswami.
00:32:11
Manni
a
00:32:14
Manni
Yeah.
00:32:16
Steph
They do have to present both sides. He said that we're supposed
00:32:19
Manni
That came up with the, you can call me daddy, Kamala interview. When people were upset about um Kamala going on, you can call me daddy or you can call her daddy or I can't remember the name.
00:32:24
Steph
Mm.
00:32:32
Manni
um But they were like, why didn't she have Trump on? And she came out and said publicly, I did invite Trump.
00:32:38
Steph
They have to.
00:32:39
Manni
I did invite him, too. Yeah. So I'm not sure the what the regulations are on that.
00:32:42
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:32:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm.
00:32:48
Manni
that day Like I said, I was feeling like a poli-sci college student.
00:32:52
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:32:53
Manni
And i it was midnight. And my paper was due at 1 o'clock.
00:32:57
Steph
a
00:33:01
Manni
And I didn't have time to research all of it.
00:33:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But I guess, well, I guess going back to the original question of like, do we think that journalists can be unbiased.
00:33:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah Where I was going with that comment was like whether or not they successfully were unbiased before said act, whatever that was, is probably debatable.
00:33:23
Steph
Oh. Oh.
00:33:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
like I didn't read the news before Reagan. I was not alive before Reagan. And so I have no idea whether they actually they implemented that effectively or not.
00:33:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But in today's society, with social media and like the access to information, I personally believe journalism is is like trying to stay relevant.
Manipulation of Facts in Journalism
00:33:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so in order to do that, they have to say super provocative things, which are slanted and biased, in order for people to watch or read their platform, which means that you know like which which is how they get money.
00:33:57
Steph
wow
00:34:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
so i I don't know, like how would you be unbiased in that world? Like I just, I think that they're fighting a losing battle at this point, which is frightening.
00:34:14
Manni
Yeah,
00:34:19
Manni
yeah I do think there is some element of capitalism in there of like, how do we keep our industry alive?
00:34:21
Steph
Oh.
00:34:25
Manni
I saw something that was like, people run to TikTok and um Instagram to get their news because it's free. So now you have paid subscription to the Washington Post.
00:34:37
Manni
New York Times, right? You have to pay to read their articles online.
00:34:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:34:40
Manni
You have to pay to get them delivered to your house. So ah there is an element of like keeping the free press, keeping the press to be accessible for for people.
00:34:51
Manni
um But I was thinking about this historically about like, I don't know about Reagan, but again, through my teaching, the Alien and Sedition Acts are one of the first acts of Congress that we saw where there was this what is the right of the press, right?
00:35:08
Manni
And that's why I was saying it's like a first amendment, right? Like the Alien and Sedition Acts of like what you can write out legally in press about your government. My, I guess the core of my question is who determines what bias is, right?
00:35:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm.
00:35:24
Manni
And I think that's what we're struggling with right now as a society, right? So like, that's where my, like, um How can you say that this is bias when this is fact?
00:35:37
Manni
So what makes something biased in the eyes of somebody who has an opposing view of me?
00:35:38
Steph
Yeah.
00:35:43
Manni
And I think that's where we're like hitting, we're we're not recognizing as a society of like, wait, the the real question is why is this bias to you?
00:35:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right.
00:35:53
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:35:54
Manni
You know? so
00:35:55
Steph
Yeah, I feel like, um...
00:35:55
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I mean, what you what you just, I'm jotting this down because what you just said about like who defines what is a bias blows my mind because you can you can throw a fact to prove almost any point, right?
00:35:57
Steph
Oh, go ahead, Karen.
00:36:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So like you can say, um you can throw out certain statistics to prove a certain point.
00:36:18
Manni
Right.
00:36:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
There are other numbers out there that could either disprove or provided like an and, and this other thing, you know? And so, oh yeah, it's like facts are so murky these days.
00:36:35
Manni
Yeah, facts can be manipulated. Yeah. Steph, what were you going to say?
00:36:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
We want everything to be black and white and and everything is gray.
00:36:44
Steph
I was thinking of just like the unfortunate um introduction of the term fake news.
00:36:52
Manni
and Yeah.
00:36:52
Steph
like I feel like you know as soon as a fact or a piece of information um paints you or someone,
00:37:04
Steph
in a negative light or contradicts your beliefs it's easy to say that's not true even if it is a fact or like Karen said writing another piece of um data that could contradict it and so it just leaves the consumer confused and um and so then you just kind of lean into you know i just feel like maybe we're not we consumers are not going to news and to information with wanting to know, but wanting to validate.
00:37:40
Manni
Right. Yeah.
00:37:42
Steph
Like, I feel like the purpose has changed.
00:37:42
Manni
Well, that was why it was like, yeah. Well, that was why it was like, let's put a pin in this conversation about what you were saying earlier about your rest and restitution and immediacy culture.
00:37:53
Manni
Um, and what social media has done for our nervous systems and our intellect. And so I'll take a very like but I won't make it political.
00:38:06
Manni
I'll talk about Ohio State, okay? I was on threads the other day, and somebody had posted a clip of the Oregon coach responding to a question, but it was just the clip of the Oregon coach.
00:38:07
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:38:18
Manni
He couldn't see the question. And all the clip said was, some days you like the odds are in your favor, and today it wasn't in our favor, and it wasn't in their favor when they played Michigan.
00:38:31
Steph
Oh.
00:38:32
Manni
So when you hear it like that, you're like, what the fuck?
00:38:36
Manni
Right? You're like, say something else, we just crushed you, right? Like as an Ohio State fan.
00:38:39
Steph
have Yeah.
00:38:41
Manni
And then you go into the comments and people are outraged, Ohio State people, because we're like insufferable.
00:38:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:38:49
Manni
And some of the comments are like, you guys, he is responding to a question of how Ohio State has come back after their loss against Michigan.
00:39:01
Manni
Right? So to your point, Steph, of like, we just, people post salaciously on social media what they want people to react to going back to the chat article.
00:39:07
Steph
yes
00:39:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:39:13
Steph
Uh-huh.
00:39:13
Manni
and the journalist who said, only the one part about the star, right?
00:39:17
Steph
Yeah.
00:39:17
Manni
Just giving just enough information to push an emotional reaction.
00:39:20
Steph
Push it. Uh-huh.
00:39:23
Manni
And um that leads me to my so my question of this mass exodus from, we saw I saw a TikTok about mass exodus from the Morning Joe show.
00:39:34
Manni
and MSNBC after the election. um What does this mean about checks and balances for our branches of government in the future? like How are we going to be able to you know make sure that our information and our sources are
Government Regulation of Media
00:39:48
Manni
credible? or Is that if that even the government's responsibility or is it our responsibility as citizens to take a time out and look at the information a little bit more carefully?
00:40:02
Steph
Mm-hmm. Wait, when you say the government's responsibility, like, do you mean, like, in regards to, to what, like,
00:40:10
Manni
I'm talking about so like um okay so what we talked about the tick tock and how tick tock might be banned, but looking when we were talking about echo champ echo chambers and algorithms right so who has a check on mark Zuckerberg for and Elon Musk.
00:40:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:40:29
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:40:29
Manni
for the information that I get exposed to because I don't have access to be able to say, I mean, I can, like there are certain things that I can toggle with in my app, but like overall, like they're just pushing certain things into my algorithm and I'm, there's like firewalls that I can't get past in order to see other stuff that would um help me to have an understanding of people who might have ah but opposing views of mine.
00:40:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:40:33
Steph
Mmm.
00:40:39
Steph
Mmhmm.
00:40:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
right
00:40:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right. Manny, I think you like you've just gotten to the core of this issue and it is a few things.
00:41:04
Steph
Yes.
00:41:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It is that our government is slow and so we have not caught up with technology. I do firmly believe that we need some type of regulation for modern day technology.
00:41:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Full stop. Social media included, but I mean, there's other things, right? That like our government is just behind on. Because the whole premise behind the regulations of the past on journalism is that we should not allow corporations um to operate without any guardrails.
00:41:32
Steph
hello
00:41:50
Manni
Right.
00:41:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
because consumers don't have the same amount of resources and access that corporations have.
00:41:57
Manni
Right.
00:41:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so the whole premise is like protecting consumers. As a consumer of information, we should not be expected to have to read something and decipher whether it is fact or not.
00:42:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Like we should hold these companies accountable for what it is that they're doing.
00:42:10
Manni
a
00:42:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Now, how you do that, gosh, I'm not a politician. and my business acumen only takes me so far. So i I don't have a good answer for that, but I just can't i just can't ah overestimate that like our government is slow and behind and needs to really catch up.
00:42:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And we're seeing little hints of it right with like ah earlier this year, I think Florida banned social media for children under 14.
00:42:32
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:42:32
Manni
Yeah.
00:42:39
Manni
Yeah. You're 14, yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:42:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I think that's brilliant. I think you know i think that I have
00:42:45
Manni
Yeah. Especially coming from Florida.
00:42:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I know I was very confused. I was very confused by that, but bravo, Florida. like That is brilliant and like needs to be, I think, federally implemented.
00:42:54
Manni
We'll give you your prize.
00:43:00
Steph
Yeah.
00:43:00
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But then I do think that only solves a portion of the issue. it's It's saying that we don't trust children to be able to decipher the information that they're receiving on social media, but we do trust adults, which
00:43:04
Steph
Right.
00:43:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
is clearly not working either, right? Because of all the things you've said, they target are like the way that our brain works and our urgency for information and they exploit that.
Regulating Social Media for Children
00:43:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And then it's creating this like massively polarized environment where if we had access to other information, we could at least make more educated decisions for ourselves on what we believe to be true, what we want, what we don't want for our government or
00:43:30
Manni
Right.
00:43:38
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:43:38
Manni
right
00:43:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
you know, sports or whatever you know, whatever thing that we're passionate about. So I don't know.
00:43:47
Manni
Yeah.
00:43:47
Steph
I, I feel like what, like, remember how I, like, when I was like, well, I listen to the radio and, you know, show me.
00:43:56
Manni
And we were like, loser.
00:43:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
What's that?
00:44:00
Steph
But the radio.
00:44:01
Manni
Radio? Who needs a radio?
00:44:04
Steph
But the radio and like and network news and um and those kind of mediums do have federal law that requires balanced information.
00:44:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Do you have one?
00:44:16
Manni
Right.
00:44:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:44:21
Steph
And social media is the wild, wild west.
00:44:24
Manni
Right.
00:44:25
Steph
And it was not created, in which I don't think in its infancy, like what thought that it was going to be people's primary source of receiving news.
00:44:36
Steph
And so to Monika's point that the government is slow, or I'm sorry, that was Karen's point, that the government is slow to um catch up with the fact that people are using that as a news source.
00:44:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:44:49
Steph
And I feel like when there's a news source, there should be regulation um Not to not to um get rid of free speech, but if you're going to present information as fact, then there needs to be research and there needs to be accreditation and it needs to be balanced. like you know Just thinking back to teaching eighth grade English, an argumentative essay, you have to have a counter argument and you have to have evidence from both sides for it to be a like a truly argumentative essay.
00:45:22
Steph
So I just feel like there does need to be some sort of regulation since we are headed to TikTok and to Facebook and to Instagram for news period.
00:45:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
da Yeah.
00:45:34
Manni
Yeah.
00:45:34
Steph
um
00:45:35
Manni
Well, that's a certain generation. There's also another generation that does solely like fixate on um cable news as well.
00:45:44
Steph
here Well, I feel, yeah.
00:45:44
Manni
And cable news has capitalized off of their um addiction to cable news, and they are not presenting only facts. They are more argumentative and opinionated on their news networks.
00:45:57
Steph
Yeah. Well, and I wonder, like, I just, I want to know, like, cause like, I feel like back when you were saying why we don't just wait till the 5pm, the 5pm news, like our parents did, like, you know what I mean?
00:45:59
Manni
so
00:46:12
Steph
Like that there's like this immediacy culture because of the 24 hour cable news networks that has to fill 24 hours.
00:46:12
Manni
you know
00:46:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:46:20
Steph
I'm thinking of like Anchorman, you know?
00:46:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:46:23
Manni
A whale's vagina.
00:46:25
Steph
But i like you have to fill 24 hours of news. And so they're just going to say whatever comes in. And I don't know what the regulation is for you know cable news, but like network news is, I feel, like under more traditional.
00:46:39
Steph
like I feel like when I heard it, I'm pretty sure the acronym was FCC, but I don't know what that stands for.
00:46:45
Manni
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:46:46
Steph
ah Um, so yeah, but why, at what point does the FCC include social media and cable news networks?
00:46:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. It is, it, they have to be included in order to be called, like, called, uh, journalists or whatever.
00:46:57
Steph
I don't know if cable news networks are included in that.
00:47:00
Steph
They are. Okay.
00:47:04
Steph
But is it because maybe like a station like Fox News, like the show itself, they are more pundits, like they're not necessarily like
00:47:04
Manni
what
00:47:13
Manni
Yeah.
00:47:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's, it's the difference I think between like a, like an op-ed, you know, when you write an opinion piece versus, and, and so you can get away with a little bit more when it's like entitled opinion, but
00:47:19
Steph
Yes, op-ed. Yeah.
00:47:23
Steph
Listen. OK.
00:47:26
Steph
All their programming is very op-ed.
00:47:30
Manni
Yeah.
00:47:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right, right.
00:47:31
Steph
Same with MSNBC.
00:47:32
Manni
Well, I'm going to pull this, I'm going to wrap this up because we are running out of time, but to your point,
00:47:32
Steph
and
00:47:39
Manni
um This all goes back to the original question of like, can news remain unbiased because programs are people, right? So the people, it's not the political pundits who are sitting at the chair who are the face of the network. It's just the puppet masters behind the people who are sitting at the chairs again.
00:47:59
Manni
Go watch Wicked, because it is these people who run the networks, right?
00:48:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:48:03
Steph
Okay.
00:48:06
Manni
I'm thinking about also secession. I loved that show.
00:48:08
Steph
Oh.
00:48:09
Manni
um The people who've run the networks have an agenda as well. And so when you're saying like the FCC and these government programs, it's like, well, what are the moral and ethical principles that they are following?
00:48:21
Manni
in order to maintain that our news is
Future of Media Regulation
00:48:24
Manni
unbiased. And are they? And we've seen several lawsuits recently um against these news networks and organizations because they aren't following the ethical principles, but they have money, they have money to pay so that they don't have to.
00:48:36
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:48:39
Manni
And so, um yeah, so like, I think, I don't know, I'll i'll wrap us up with
00:48:40
Steph
Hmm.
00:48:46
Manni
OK, I had two more questions, but we can we can table those. Do you guys have any confessions that um you want to bring to light?
00:48:50
Steph
Hmm.
00:48:55
Manni
If not, I have i can give us another question to take us out.
00:48:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, I think this is my confession. My confession is like the, the bias definition thing. Like you said, how do you define bias?
00:49:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Um, and I just, that kind of blows my mind cause I always in my mind thought it's like black and white, like something is fact or something is slanted.
00:49:23
Steph
Okay.
00:49:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I just feel like now I'm going to think of that statement so differently because if you watch CNN or if you watch Fox news, they are going to be convicted in their belief that they are telling a factual story based on true information, unbiased journalism, and they will come out with completely different stories right about potentially the same exact thing.
00:49:45
Manni
Yeah.
00:49:50
Manni
Yes.
00:49:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And like depending on your political beliefs, you're going to look at one or the other and be a little bit more aligned with one in all likelihood. And yeah, and so it's just wild to me to think about like, actually, there isn't, like buy bias is not clear.
00:50:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's like, it depends on which vantage point you're looking at something from, whether you believe it's biased or unbiased.
00:50:14
Manni
you oh Yeah.
00:50:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so then how do you solve that? It's so, it's, it's so murky.
00:50:28
Manni
Yeah.
00:50:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And ah this just goes back to like the whole premise of like, these discussions is like lots of things can be true at the same time there's not always a yes or a no and a right and a wrong it's like there is so much gray area and so much complexity in our world and that's just another thing that like as soon as you ask what the definition is i'm like shit this is i've been living a lie
00:50:36
Manni
yeah
00:50:48
Manni
Yeah,
00:50:51
Manni
yeah yeah no, I think that that's like when when I talked about framing this conversation, I said it's important that we discuss terminology and vocabulary because sometimes, you know, what you what we use as language sometimes might not be what we're actually meaning is the is the definition of that.
00:50:53
Steph
a
00:51:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:51:13
Manni
Sorry, Steph, what were you going to say?
00:51:15
Steph
Well my confessional like somebody who I follow on social media is Dan Rather.
00:51:22
Manni
um
00:51:22
Steph
ah Do you guys follow him? I just love him like because
00:51:24
Manni
Yeah, he is very gentle in his approach.
00:51:27
Steph
very gentleness approach and I feel like he has bias, he has opinions and you you know where he leans politically, but he talks a lot about the responsibility of the journalist to make sure that you are balanced and he's really like calling back to a day when we do to all turn on the news at five o'clock and trust that the information is um is valid.
00:51:49
Manni
a
00:51:52
Steph
And so what I'm thinking about is just like the, like people who are giving us news, whether it's kind of like a ah cable news program, whether you're putting out information on social media that's considered news, I feel like there was a time when journalists had this, and I'm not trying to dog people, but this like integrity and sense of responsibility that when what we say is
00:52:18
Manni
Yeah. me Yeah.
00:52:23
Steph
important and does impact government as a media is the fourth branch of government and we have a sense of responsibility and what has murked that is capitalism and the fact that like which we brought up at the beginning is that money is driving the fact that we consumers are biased and we're just going to chase after what makes us feel good and what makes me feel good is somebody saying you know things that I 100 agree with
00:52:32
Manni
Yes.
00:52:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:52:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Would I believe in?
00:52:51
Manni
Yes.
00:52:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:52:51
Steph
And so I feel like, you know, part of it is if we can maybe part of it is at what point do we go back to journalists having that sense of responsibility and understanding their role and how it impacts army government.
00:53:09
Steph
And also, a guy I follow, um I don't have the the link to it or anything, but it's Brian Tyler Cohen, I follow him. um And that that obviously may give away my political leanings, but he...
00:53:24
Manni
it's pretty obvious where it's at.
00:53:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
As if, yeah, as if our listeners were unclear.
00:53:26
Steph
Okay, well, if you're wondering, um and he really he really talked about the fact that the organizations that are conservative are blowing up and he's finding that the conservative politicians are willing to be interviewed by these right leaning organizations.
00:53:52
Steph
And the left leaning people are turning down opportunities to be a part of this, like, you know what I'm saying?
00:54:02
Manni
yeah and Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:04
Steph
And this trend of like being, okay. So it's like on the flip side, I feel like I think that both sides need to be doing the same thing, if that makes sense.
00:54:07
Manni
Yeah.
00:54:16
Manni
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:16
Steph
Like it's like, I don't know.
00:54:17
Manni
I feel like that was one of the criticisms against Kamala's campaign I saw both like why are you doing this like like the the left didn't really know how to step into that stratosphere and I and it was like divided in a sense so I'm like what that should look like and and you're seeing that yeah the the right is starting to take a little bit more of yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's
00:54:23
Steph
Yes.
00:54:29
Steph
So that stratosphere.
00:54:33
Steph
ah
00:54:40
Steph
really utilize. And that's scary.
00:54:45
Manni
Yeah. um so So we've come to the end of our podcast, but I will say to um kind of bookend what you were saying, Steph, about like the responsibility of journalists.
00:54:55
Manni
And like this is really a conversation about integrity. um But I don't think it's the responsibility of the journalists. I think it's the responsibility of citizens to not want to jump in to the quick news flash, breaking news, and think that you
00:55:09
Steph
oh
00:55:14
Manni
are credible to present this information to a broader platform.
00:55:18
Steph
who
00:55:19
Manni
right and And who am I to say that as somebody who's hosting a podcast right now and we are like putting our stuff out there. you know Maybe we're doing the same and maybe I'm you know having a Johari Wendover effect right now.
00:55:31
Manni
But like it is it is something that we, as consumers of information, are going to have to be more mindful of when we put out a product.
00:55:42
Manni
if it is
00:55:42
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:55:43
Manni
If we do have this freedom to put out our products, then we have to make sure that we have some integrity and some ethical pillars aligned to the products that we put out um to make sure that we are you know just ah contributing to the harmony of society and not the harm.
00:55:58
Steph
Oh.
00:55:59
Manni
you This was a wonderful discussion, you guys. So happy to be back. Karen, you have the last word.
00:56:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, well, just in the spirit of being able to disagree, I disagree.
00:56:10
Manni
Oh.
00:56:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just think i just think that expecting every person, every citizen to, like quote, do the right thing is unrealistic.
00:56:23
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just think government needs to set boundaries and set guardrails on like what information can be put out, how it can be put out and inform consumers better of what information it is that they are absorbing or receiving.
00:56:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just like, we have 300 million plus people in this country, right? Like to expect everyone to do their research and know how to do their research and stuff.
00:56:47
Manni
Right. No, I, I
00:56:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I just, yeah.
00:56:52
Manni
I wholeheartedly take what you're saying, I'm saying in the meantime, because our government is so slow.
00:56:58
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:56:58
Manni
And because we have 300 million people, what does that even look like?
00:56:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:57:02
Manni
How does that look like that a government a government official would come to your house and say, don't post that, you're not right?
00:57:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:57:07
Manni
like Or what does that look like we're going through the internet and the ether system?
00:57:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
nine It's not on the individual. I think it's on the corporations. It's on the Facebooks and the or the metas and the Googles and the um Twitter, whatever they're called these days.
00:57:16
Steph
one Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:57:23
Manni
Yeah.
00:57:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
you know like It's on all of those corporations have ah to have to follow certain regulations. um
00:57:31
Steph
I think that they're trying with the fact check. Like I feel like some things like, but it's not, it's not enough.
00:57:34
Manni
yeah Nope.
00:57:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's just that gu our government is too slow to ah to understand what needs to be done and put proper controls in place, in my opinion.
00:57:46
Manni
Yeah, I mean, I just don't know how that would look if somebody is building a platform on TikTok based off of this persona that they're going to bring breaking news about, let's say like Gaza or whatever, you know, they really believe that they are credible enough to do that when they haven't um gone through the education and the process of, and that's the whole thing of how this all started, of like, what makes something bias incredible?
00:57:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
i don't
00:58:12
Manni
like Like, do you really need an education to be able to do this? Like, where does that, going back to Steph's point about integrity, like, where what makes something, um what makes me
00:58:20
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:58:26
Manni
you putting out this content? Is it because you have a degree? Is it because you have decades of experience? Is it because you've gone back and forth and and looked at both sides?
00:58:39
Manni
I think that is something that, like what what does that look like?
00:58:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's a it's a very, but that it that is the way that it was designed originally.
00:58:46
Manni
How do I look?
00:58:46
Steph
Is it like a licenser?
00:58:47
Manni
I don't know. A licensure? Exactly.
00:58:50
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:58:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
like That is what a journalist is.
00:58:55
Karen, Steph, & Manni
You have to have a specific license. You have to have an education and understanding of the regulations of what you can and cannot report on. I listened to a podcast with, uh, it was an interview with John Oliver because he does last week tonight and he's not a journalist, but they do a lot of very.
00:58:55
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:59:05
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:59:10
Manni
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:59:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Journalistically styled stories.
00:59:16
Manni
Yeah.
00:59:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so, but in the guise of satire. And so like, he was questioned about like, do you see yourself as a journalist?
00:59:21
Manni
Mm.
00:59:25
Steph
Oh.
00:59:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But then he would be held to different standards on what it is that he can report. So anyways, like even in those environments, it's, it's really interesting.
00:59:30
Manni
Fascinating. fascinatingating Yeah.
00:59:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I don't have a good answer, but I do think this is why we have government to be able to protect our citizens in and give us access to information on both sides, you know on all all ends of the spectrum.
00:59:36
Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:59:48
Steph
Oh.
00:59:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
are all parts of the spectrum um in a way that is productive you know and not divisive. And like we have gone way off the rails, in my opinion, on that.
00:59:57
Steph
Okay.
01:00:01
Steph
Mm-hmm.
01:00:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And it's all, to Steph, your point, it's all in the name of capitalism.
01:00:02
Manni
Yeah.
01:00:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's all money.
01:00:06
Steph
Oh, yeah.
01:00:06
Manni
yeah Yeah.
01:00:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And so if we could somehow take money out of things, then maybe we could make better decisions on behalf of our people and not on behalf of our corporations.
01:00:07
Steph
Mm-hmm.
01:00:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
says the business person, so well I realize a little bit of a contradiction there.
01:00:22
Manni
Well, I think that every platform started out with a certain intention and it's just morphed into competition between like, you know, remember social media was just about pictures and posting and now it's become something like a lot more than that.
01:00:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. Yeah, it's a monster.
01:00:40
Manni
um So yeah, i think I think you're right that like ah maybe it's that we need less, right?
01:00:45
Steph
Yeah.
01:00:48
Manni
Maybe it's that we don't need to be inundated with so much information. Maybe the regulation is to take away how much we've built this into and then just slim it down a little bit and make it more digestible for people.
01:00:54
Steph
Way. Yeah.
01:01:04
Manni
So I don't know.
01:01:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm.
01:01:05
Steph
Mm hmm.
01:01:06
Manni
To be continued, Guy, this this this was lovely. we We uncovered a lot. I don't know if we answered anything, but we definitely kept it classy, sassy, and a little badass-y.
01:01:11
Steph
Okay.
01:01:17
Steph
yeah
01:01:18
Manni
I don't know.
01:01:19
Steph
ah
01:01:22
Manni
thank
01:01:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
You're really trying.
01:01:23
Manni
I'm reaching. See you next time, listeners. Thanks for joining us.