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Is Self-Care a Scam?
35 Plays2 months ago
Welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen Podcast! This week we dive deep into the world of toxic self-care trends, unpacking how the concept of "self-care" has been distorted in recent years. We discuss the rise of the discussion of self-care practices that promote unrealistic expectations and quick fixes, which can ultimately damage mental health and well-being. Additionally, we explore the important issue of cultural appropriation, focusing on the co-opting of the term "self-care" from the Black community, where it originally held deep cultural and historical significance. Join us as we unpack the truth behind these trends, the impact of cultural misappropriation, and how we can reclaim true self-care practices that are inclusive, mindful, and rooted in authenticity. Tune in to this eye-opening discussion on toxic self-care, cultural appropriation, and how we can all practice self-care in a healthy, meaningful way.
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Links to sources referenced in this episode:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/21/self-care-radical-feminist-idea-mass-market
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-politics-of-selfcare
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
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Transcript
The Juggle of Self-Care and Responsibilities
00:00:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Self care. Cool, let me just add that to my list of things to do. First, take care of my son. Second, do an excellent job at work. Then make time to be a good wife, sister, daughter, friend. And now self care. Work out, make healthy meals, take care of my skin, meditate. Something's gotta give. I guess I'll just have to take sleep off my list of things to do.
Humorous Beginnings and Technical Glitches
00:00:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hi, I'm your host Karen, and welcome to this week's episode of You Can Call Me Karen.
00:01:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hi, ladies. I'm so excited for this week.
00:01:13
Manni
All right,
00:01:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Who's excited for this week's episode?
00:01:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Steph, you're muted, um but I heard you, I read your lips.
00:01:28
Steph
oh Oh, dang it, that was gonna be so funny.
00:01:34
Manni
in the recording, let's go back and do it again.
00:01:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's not happening. um Okay,
Self-Care Stories and Cheeseburger Phones
00:01:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
before we dive into our topic on self-care, let's start with ah who you call in caring stories.
00:01:41
Manni
and
00:01:50
Manni
Who are you calling, Karen?
00:01:51
Steph
We did it.
00:01:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm not doing it.
00:01:54
Manni
Do the phone, people.
00:01:56
Steph
We did it and then complained about it.
00:01:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah
00:01:59
Manni
And do the, is it a cheeseburger phone like DJ Tanner?
00:02:03
Steph
ah
00:02:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh You're going way back with that one.
00:02:06
Manni
I always wanted a cheeseburger phone.
00:02:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh Okay, who are you calling Karen, ladies? Who's kicking us off?
00:02:15
Manni
Steph, why don't you go first?
00:02:17
Steph
I will be happy to go first. So um
Bruce Fisher and Political Etiquette
00:02:21
Steph
my canned story is a Chad story.
00:02:25
Manni
Oh!
00:02:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yay, we love our chats.
00:02:29
Steph
um So we are um we're recording this prior to inauguration, but post certification of the election results and the start of the new Congress.
00:02:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my goodness. Side note, that um certification happened and was not news.
00:02:54
Steph
It was not news because, okay, so we're not getting political. It was not news and it went fine as it normally should.
00:02:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
okay yeah just totally like yeah but
00:03:01
Steph
It did.
00:03:02
Manni
Well, what got the news was maybe what you're about to talk about.
00:03:03
Steph
um
00:03:07
Steph
Yes, I'm about to talk about um the ah by a man by the name of Bruce Fisher, who is the husband of Nebraska ah Republican Senator, I believe it's Deb Fisher, um and ah Vice President Kamala Harrison, Harrison, girl.
00:03:14
Manni
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:26
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Okay. Yeah, it just totally like, yeah.
00:03:28
Manni
know
00:03:29
Steph
Vice, no disrespect, Mamala.
00:03:34
Karen, Steph, & Manni
how quickly we forget.
00:03:34
Steph
um Yes, did her her duty of swearing in the new Congress. And she there's um footage and audio of this um as the husband was standing there, Kamala Harris, and Harris turns to him, reaches out to shake his hand, and he denies shaking her hand.
Inauguration Ceremony: Tradition vs. Tension
00:03:56
Manni
There's another one.
00:03:56
Steph
And um and she was like, so hu well, that part right there, that part right there,
00:03:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Wait, who is he? Why was he there?
00:04:00
Manni
Exactly. a
00:04:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
You guys, I'm genuinely responding to this for the first time. I was like, I was out of the country.
00:04:08
Steph
You didn't, okay.
00:04:09
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I didn't, yeah, I've been like out of the news cycle.
00:04:10
Manni
yeah This what made the news cycle, not the certification, but this program.
00:04:13
Steph
Yeah. Not the certification, but yeah. um Basically, so so basically your family is there when you get like sworn in.
00:04:18
Manni
Yeah.
00:04:23
Steph
It's like the start of the new Congress session. And everybody else, you know you walk up, you shake the vice president's hand, they take a photo and it's like a swearing in situation.
00:04:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh.
00:04:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, like ceremony.
00:04:37
Steph
And the guy was, Ceremony, yeah. And, you know, I found an article um that was talking about it, and it basically it says, like, traditionally, it's just to kind of celebrate camaraderie.
00:04:39
Manni
yeah
00:04:46
Manni
Yeah.
00:04:49
Steph
um It's more like, um just, here we go, we're gonna get started for this this new session. And so it's not typically contentious or a time to be making some sort of, it's not a thing.
00:04:59
Manni
Right.
00:04:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, it's not a thing.
00:05:01
Manni
Like you won. You won.
00:05:03
Steph
Yeah, exactly.
00:05:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Congratulations.
00:05:07
Steph
And so um how you are going to have, he was holding a Bible, I believe, in his hands too.
00:05:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Of course.
00:05:13
Manni
Yeah.
Standing by Beliefs: Personal vs. Public Actions
00:05:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, sorry.
00:05:17
Steph
Oh, so you're spicy this week. ah
00:05:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Sorry, listeners.
00:05:24
Steph
but
00:05:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Try to be better. I'll be better.
00:05:25
Steph
Anyway, I'm calling him chat of the week because, you know, you can have like, there's nothing wrong with having political beliefs and, um and I, I can understand feeling that vehemently opposed to someone I feel very strongly about a certain someone.
00:05:41
Steph
um two But when you are standing by the Vice President of the United States, um it should be a momentous, positive experience for your wife.
00:05:41
Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:05:52
Steph
um You have now stolen her shine, her moment.
00:05:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:05:52
Manni
Yeah.
00:05:55
Manni
murder That part.
00:05:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
oh
00:05:56
Steph
and um and And I will also say that I stole that point from Shalaman the God because he made him donkey of the week and he...
00:05:59
Manni
That part.
00:06:07
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my god, I love that.
00:06:09
Steph
Yeah, and so he he brought that point up of like now we're talking about you and not about her and it was her time and um they they were talking about the moment and like ah Deb Fisher like nudged him to like come on like get your sh it together um and it just
00:06:15
Manni
right
00:06:23
Manni
right
00:06:25
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah
00:06:26
Manni
Well, there were two cue points, right? Like, even when he first came up on the stage, he didn't, like, I guess they were trying to, like, position for photo ops and stuff, and he didn't want to be, like, next to her.
00:06:38
Steph
yeah
00:06:38
Manni
And she made a remark, like, come on, I don't bite, you know? And then, yeah, so that was his first, like, hey, cameras are on. Don't be an asshole.
00:06:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my gosh.
00:06:50
Manni
Okay? ah right? And then he still continued to hold the Bible and act self-righteous and
Grocery Store Civility Incident
00:07:00
Manni
steal the moment away from his wife and make it about him.
00:07:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
who Deb Fisher, you said she is the from Nebraska.
00:07:07
Manni
this And this guy is a professor, I believe, right, at the University of Nebraska, something
00:07:07
Steph
Yeah, Senator from, she's a Republican Senator from Nebraska. and She was just saying.
00:07:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Sorry.
00:07:16
Steph
What?
00:07:16
Karen, Steph, & Manni
whoa Whoa.
00:07:19
Manni
Nebraska, but one of the like affiliate campuses, I think I read.
00:07:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
The branch campus.
00:07:23
Manni
So people will like imagine if this is his visceral for the president publicly, how he feels privately about a certain demographic of people.
00:07:31
Steph
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
00:07:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm.
00:07:33
Manni
Um, so yeah, that
00:07:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Although to play devil's advocate just for a moment, ah i would I would argue you know educators, um well, I guess I'm thinking of our political beliefs and the fact that both of you are educators. And so some people might have the same reaction but opposite you know to um educators who lean
00:08:00
Manni
invited If I was invited to a public ceremony where I was supposed to receive my husband, was I would swallow all of my pride.
00:08:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:08:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, no, I know that about you guys, but yeah, that's true.
00:08:10
Steph
whole
00:08:11
Manni
Or I would decline the invitation.
00:08:17
Manni
Right. ah But to extract the key because we also put Kamala in a position to have to, in that moment, react with grace that she didn't need to get.
00:08:18
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Like just let her have her moment and you don't have to be there.
00:08:31
Manni
She has been through.
00:08:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, like another, just another circumstance where a black woman has to like bite her tongue and be the bigger person despite being totally bigoted.
00:08:38
Manni
Right.
00:08:41
Manni
just being there doing her job, by the way, her job.
00:08:43
Steph
Yeah, but just do it.
00:08:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and Yeah.
00:08:45
Manni
That is her job to certify the election.
00:08:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:08:47
Manni
So what did you expect?
00:08:47
Steph
Yeah.
00:08:49
Manni
Like that is what she's supposed to be doing. You think she really wants to be there its with all you guys as she just got defeated?
00:08:52
Steph
Shake your hand.
00:08:57
Steph
Yeah.
00:08:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, man.
00:08:59
Manni
Good job.
00:09:00
Steph
yeah Though I will say something else that um Charlemagne the God said, he was like part of him, kind of congratulates him because like keep that same energy. Like he did not, and I guess, ah he didn't go opposite. ah He, he kept it real.
00:09:18
Steph
Like, I don't like you. I'm not even going to shake green and nothing was different about his behavior. Like he did it. Like it wasn't too faced. It was, but he, he was, it's still wrong. He, he, he got down the other day, but he was just like on the flip side, at least he was, you know, keeping it, um, real.
00:09:28
Manni
Right.
00:09:38
Manni
earth oh
00:09:40
Steph
No, no, you're a Chad.
00:09:41
Manni
Yeah, like there are certain Maybe this is, I think this is what the conundrum that they have established for me.
00:09:53
Manni
And by they, I mean people who have a certain voice about how we should show up in places. And it's like, if that's your belief of that we should do this when um the national anthem is playing, or we should put we shouldn't wear tan suits in the White House, or we should, you know, if that's like your belief, then like, no, not actually you are being too faced.
00:10:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a Yeah.
00:10:16
Steph
Yeah.
00:10:16
Manni
Because if you're the one saying that we need to behave a certain way, and there needs to be more decorum, and it needs to be the way that it traditionally was. And and you get to pick and choose when that happens, but we don't.
00:10:24
Steph
Yeah.
00:10:27
Steph
Great. Yep.
00:10:29
Manni
Or other people don't, right? Like when other people do it, it's it's wrong.
00:10:34
Steph
You're the dad.
00:10:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, that's it.
00:10:35
Manni
So that's,
00:10:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
mean
00:10:38
Manni
that okay. Woo, that was spicy.
00:10:44
Steph
Okay.
00:10:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I'm glad you raised that because I did not hear about that when I was out of the country. So thank you for sharing.
00:10:52
Manni
Yeah. Well, my Karen of the week, um it we're going to call her grocery store Karen.
00:10:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yes.
00:11:01
Manni
So um a couple of months ago, this is right before, I want to say it's right before the holidays. So holiday madness haven't even started. at It was like early November.
00:11:11
Manni
So I just want to put that out there because I know people during the holidays act a certain way in the grocery store and at stores.
00:11:20
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh.
00:11:21
Manni
um we are we We're taking a time where it's like maybe a week or two before that's supposed to happen. So I'm in the grocery store and um I am down going down an aisle and I like to go to the grocery store and just like meander and wander.
00:11:37
Manni
Like it's kind of a fun experience for me. I love grocery store music. I i don't know. I just kind of take my time when I'm in the aisles and I could sense this woman like behind me who was somewhat in a hurry.
00:11:51
Manni
You know how you can like sense somebody because the aisles are so like narrow.
00:11:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, that's me in the grocery store.
00:11:53
Steph
here Yeah.
00:11:57
Manni
somebody who's trying to like hurry you along or like, you know, and, um, I was just like, okay, you know, like just moving my cart a little bit here and move my cart a little bit there.
00:11:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ae yeah
00:12:07
Manni
Right? Like, so she can get by and go on her merry day. Um, and then I'm at the checkout line. And, um, it's a little bit crowded in the grocery store. So like the lines are a little bit longer. And the line next to me is an older gentleman who I would say had to be in his mid eighties and where in the checkout line, um, of like, uh, like 30 items or more, right? Like we're not in the like small checkout line because we have a lot of groceries.
00:12:43
Manni
The man walked away to go get something because there was a weight. This woman comes up with the Hamilton beach, whatever, let's say coffee maker, and stands in front of his cart to go next and jump him in line.
00:12:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
no no
00:13:05
Manni
And he comes back and he was like, what are you doing? My cart was here. And she's like, no, it wasn't. You weren't standing here.
00:13:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
No, no.
00:13:15
Manni
And he was like, I was. My cart was here. And she's like, oh, well, no. I'm just going to go in from like and and pay for this because you weren't there. And I interjected.
00:13:26
Manni
I was like, excuse me. This gentleman was here before you. You have one item. We have more items. We cannot go to the like 20 items or less line and get out.
00:13:39
Manni
You can. You need to move.
The Self-Care Trend: Origins and Perceptions
00:13:42
Steph
Yes.
00:13:42
Manni
And he still Stayed in line in front of this man And I was like he is an older gentleman trying to get his groceries out and you are being so rude and disrespectful right now and she was like well I just have to get this one thing and she proceeded to put her stuff on the conveyor belt and check And he's like you were being so You were being so ma'am What are you doing?
00:13:49
Steph
ah war
00:14:03
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my God.
00:14:09
Manni
Like he had been standing in line for at least like five minutes before that happened and she just jumped in line in front of him Yeah, and then the cashier, you know how normally you can get a little thing from the cashier of like, they were next, go back, didn't even say anything.
00:14:15
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Gee. Yeah.
00:14:22
Manni
I'm like, you, it was like this teenage boy and I'm like, I wanted, I wanted to be the care and then to be, go to management and be like, you need to train your employees to say something in that situation because that is,
00:14:34
Steph
el hey
00:14:37
Manni
utterly, utterly disgusting what she did to that older gentleman, right?
00:14:40
Karen, Steph, & Manni
yeah
00:14:40
Steph
hello
00:14:44
Steph
wow
00:14:44
Manni
To anybody, but to somebody who was like, you could tell he was like a senior citizen taking his time. Like it probably took him three hours to shop for all of his groceries.
00:14:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my gosh.
00:14:54
Manni
Like, oh, it was disgusting. It was disturbing. And the clicker, I know you guys, because we are all human.
00:15:05
Manni
This was all black on black crime.
00:15:07
Steph
No!
00:15:10
Steph
but No!
00:15:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Not, not what I pictured. I was certain, I was certain that woman looked just like me.
00:15:19
Steph
and flash the
00:15:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, when you said you guys, I like, I felt it coming and I was like, it can't be true.
00:15:25
Steph
and mean I know, same. I was like, I refuse to believe.
00:15:32
Manni
Right down to the checkout, boy. It was all black on black bread.
00:15:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh my God. head
00:15:38
Manni
wow i know I know you know what that reminds me of is in a time to kill at the end when Matthew McConaughey has his big monologue.
00:15:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
That, like, I feel like you need to start from the top so I can picture this story in a different way.
00:15:46
Steph
different way. yeah Oh, yeah yes. Yes.
00:15:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Okay, fun fact, never seen that movie.
00:15:56
Steph
period a who okay yeah i feel like i forgot i know that about you ah time that's seriously i love that movie so much
00:15:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
in I feel like this is going to be a theme any time a movie is referenced, just to be clear. I have seen like three,
00:16:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
movies.
00:16:13
Manni
I know, we do know that about you, but I thought, it's time to kill.
00:16:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I know. Everybody thinks that.
00:16:17
Manni
ah um no I love that movie so much.
00:16:25
Steph
and the book
00:16:27
Manni
Yes.
00:16:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Wow.
00:16:28
Manni
Anyway, that's my, very yeah.
00:16:28
Steph
um
00:16:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
All right. That was a spicy one. um
Commercialization vs. Authentic Self-Care
00:16:32
Steph
um
00:16:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, those are your Karens for the week.
00:16:33
Manni
ah
00:16:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
All right, ladies, as I mentioned at the top, we are going to dive into the self care trend today. um Before we get into the details, though, I did want to start off with a question for you guys. Let's begin at the beginning. So really quick for our listeners,
00:17:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah Normally, when we are preparing for these episodes, we like put together this little like kind of cheat sheet that our fellow co-hosts can read and do a little bit of preparation for. But this week, I have asked Manny and Steph not to look at the guide because I wanted their honest reaction.
00:17:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um Because as as I was diving into this, I was a little bit surprised. And so anyways, I think that's important to preface. So if we're fumbling a little bit more than usual, it may be because Steph and Manny were not prepared at all.
00:17:46
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um So
00:17:47
Manni
getting dressed like you are.
00:17:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So let's start with a quick question of um what do you two know about the term self-care? Like what comes to mind and do you know where it came from?
00:18:04
Steph
ah When I hear self-care, I think of like bubble baths, like moms, like
00:18:12
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Perfect.
00:18:14
Steph
um ah you know, kids are gone, moms in the bath reading a book, or um I don't know, I guess I think of self care as me time, whatever that may might look like.
00:18:31
Steph
So not necessarily, you know, even if it's just sitting in silence, it's just individual, like by yourself time, whatever that looks like for you.
00:18:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Perfect.
00:18:43
Steph
That's what I think of.
00:18:46
Manni
I think of self-care as this, I think of it in two ways. I think of it, ah how I think of most things that there's a term that we use that's glamorized, and there's a term that we use that is ancient practice and principle.
00:19:06
Manni
I think of it self-care similarly in the way that I think of yoga.
00:19:11
Steph
Mm.
00:19:11
Manni
I think people use the term, ah I think it has been whitewashed self-care in the same way that yoga has been whitewashed.
00:19:22
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:19:23
Manni
and We use it as a term to, ah yeah, I like talk about surface level things, but I think the intention underneath the term is much deeper. I think it, what's the word that I'm using? for like It has so much more impact into it, but it's easier just to call it self-care. But in doing that, we have walked away from the definition completely.
00:19:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm. Okay, this is fantastic. Thank you both for um being vulnerable and just reacting live to my question. So um went like when I first threw out this idea months ago for like toxic self care, I was reacting to What I find to be the annoying social media trend of, um you know, like my skincare routine or my daily meditation or I wake up at 4 a.m. to do all of these things before my day starts so I can take care of me. And I know that that's a very like popular idea right now. So I don't want to um
00:20:39
Karen, Steph, & Manni
alienate our listeners, but bear with me here. um But this is what I thought it was. And I thought it was like just another exaggerated example of like the worst pieces of our individualistic society coming to the surface and just like capitalism. um I am going to link a number of articles for those that want to dive into this deeper because they're really quite fascinating. There's a lot of history here, but um In the Andre Spicer article, he says, quote, self care can become an excuse to get out of almost any commitment. This can be a problem not just for the people we let down, but also for ourselves. Self care can become an excuse to avoid pushing ourselves even slightly outside of comfort zones. As a consequence, we miss out on opportunities to learn and to have experiences we can't directly control.
00:21:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
end quote. So that to me feels like what I was envisioning self-care and like the annoyance of that trend to be, but it's much bigger than that. So um I was speaking to a woman I work with about this topic and she was like, oh my gosh, I love um You know, I love this topic.
00:21:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I love like the history here. Let me send you some articles that I really like." And I was like, okay. So I started reading them while I was on an international flight yesterday and i I hope it's as exciting as it seemed to me in my sleep deprivation.
00:22:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But the history of the term self-care, like the modern use of that term was coined by Audre Lorde. Are you two familiar?
00:22:22
Manni
Yeah.
00:22:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Um, so she has a ton of accolades, but on the very short spectrum, like a black lesbian political activist, she was a writer.
00:22:24
Manni
Yeah.
00:22:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
She had, yeah she was fantastic. She was amazing. Um, she wrote about the need
00:22:35
Manni
right She asked that quote this about the slave master, and we can't write the whole quote that was ah popular in 2020 about like you can't rebuild the slave masters.
00:22:47
Manni
ah You can't rebuild, oh God, now it's escaping me, but it's something about like you can't rebuild, this basically she's saying you can't rebuild the system with the same tools that the system was built with.
00:22:55
Steph
Mm-hmm.
00:22:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
a That sounds like her stuff for sure.
00:22:57
Manni
that
00:22:57
Steph
Oh.
00:22:58
Manni
that hes Yeah, but she's the one who that turn back whole phrase came from. She's she's brilliant, yeah.
00:23:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So she, in addition to that, coined a lot about, um she wrote a book about, I think, self-care. And the whole premise behind this was the specifically the need for black women to preserve themselves in order to continue the fight, essentially.
00:23:29
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:23:30
Manni
Yes.
00:23:30
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:23:31
Karen, Steph, & Manni
which i i i As soon as I started reading this, like my mind was blown. I was like, toxic self-care is just this annoying trend that you know white privileged people have the luxury of being able to incorporate in their life.
00:23:41
Steph
Wow.
00:23:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And that just you know goes to show why this is so um controversial. But there again, there's a few really great articles in the show notes that I highly encourage people if you're interested to read more into the like details and like the history of um this term. There's a lot of different perspectives here. like they're all I think they're all valid. They're all relatable about either you know the um kind of the white supremacy of like kind of taking this term or about the capitalistic undertones you know where our society just, again, wants to capitalize on anything that becomes pop popular.
00:24:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Or the quote that I shared from Spicer where it's like, um you know in in practice, this is going too far and we are um per potentially doing things in the name of self-care that are taking away our experiences or or harming those that we
Capitalism's Co-option of Self-Care
00:24:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
love. So there's like a lot of different perspectives that I think are all very valid.
00:24:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um But it comes down, in my opinion, to capitalism and how does capitalism make money i on this term of self-care.
00:24:58
Manni
I see.
00:24:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So um one other quote that I...
00:25:00
Steph
No.
00:25:01
Manni
Can you hear my development industry?
00:25:03
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, the wellness industry, exactly. Exactly. And I mean, I should have should have looked up what the like revenue associated with the wellness industry is, but it has to be
00:25:12
Steph
know
00:25:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
enormous. um So before we get to a few questions that I'd love your responses to, one quote from the Kathleen Newman but-Breming article.
00:25:27
Karen, Steph, & Manni
she This is kind of meta because she was talking about quotes from Dr.
00:25:29
Steph
No.
00:25:32
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Omolara ooh women demo, and I'm sorry if I am butchering that, um but it blew my mind. So what the what Dr. Omelara said was um that in our society, quote, busy is a badge of honor. um She said that she had experienced burnout and developed an autoimmune disease because she, quote, didn't realize the physical effects of weathering as we continue to try to overproduce in hopes that it will make this system value us.
00:26:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I'm like, my mind is blown. It's like, yeah, so the system doesn't value us because it's ah it's a capitalist society and so it's all about making a buck. And then it sells us ways to take care of ourselves so we can give it more in hopes that it will value us. It's like just this self-fulfilling prophecy. um And so as i was as I was preparing for this, I wasn't sure if this conversation was going to be an example of a white woman not understanding kind of the underpinned date under underpinning or undertones of like the roots of this term, or if it had been so bastardized that we were all kind of living in that space. But I'm curious
00:26:53
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um what you I guess what your reactions are to the history there and like Steph, I think the way that you were thinking of it is very similar to the way that I was originally thinking of it before I dove in. um So maybe your reactions first about just like the that there's more to self-care than what we knew about it on its surface.
00:27:14
Steph
Well, yeah, I guess I, I feel like what I who I follow and what I read um is very much informed by black people and black interest activists. And so I did not I was not combining the the two messages of self-care.
00:27:38
Steph
When you said self-care, I was thinking of the mainstream, like take a bubble bath, you know exercise, whatever.
00:27:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:27:46
Steph
And i felt I find that separate from black women need rest in order to survive. Because I see that message a lot in everything that I read.
00:27:58
Steph
And and I don't. and so And I feel like that's like sacred, that's special, that's important, especially since um the 2024 election and just like the 92% and how we're resting.
00:28:09
Manni
Yep. Yep. Yes, we're resting.
00:28:14
Steph
So I feel like for me, um that is, I feel like that's like um in home conversation, like black women, we're going to just rest, we're going to take care of each other ourselves.
00:28:26
Steph
and And I don't know that that's the same thing that mainstream is saying about self-care because the the preservation that Black women need to do is for survival.
00:28:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:28:38
Steph
ah So I wasn't, yeah, no, no, that was it.
00:28:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, and that's. Sorry to interrupt you. Oh, I was going to say, and that's what I found so fascinating, because because we have totally separated or we have taken that term, you know, self care was originally written by um Audre Lorde because of all the things that you're describing.
00:29:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And the whole premise was the work that you all have to do on a day-to-day basis just to survive in this society and in this culture is emotionally and physically taxing. And so to continue to do that, you have to take time for yourself so that you're not overextended. um She wrote this when she was dying from cancer. And there was a lot of discussion about was she so ill because of literally not being able to take care of herself. And so there's like this, um yeah, I guess link between not just your emotional and mental health, but your physical health as well, if you're not if you're not taking care of yourself.
00:29:52
Manni
So I was going to say, um first of all, I found the quote, ah it's the master's tools will never dismantle the master's thoughts.
00:30:00
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:30:02
Manni
And that plays into what you're saying about like this whole cyclical i experience with capitalism and it's like, again, it's so funny how we have kind of like a theme of our season right now, right?
00:30:11
Steph
Yeah.
00:30:17
Manni
Of like, okay, let's just pump this idea into them so they don't pay, again, Wicked, why Wicked is such an allegory right now.
00:30:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, don't look behind the curtain. Yeah, don't look behind.
00:30:26
Manni
Yeah, to ah today just keep doing this one little thing right here and paying into this little aspect of oh of um pay this person, pay that but pay pay for this product.
00:30:38
Steph
Oh,
00:30:39
Manni
Again, going outside of ourselves in order to find our inner voice um so that we can what?
00:30:42
Steph
no.
00:30:48
Steph
and
00:30:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
he Keep paying the man.
00:30:48
Manni
So that we can what?
00:30:50
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Keep paying the man.
00:30:51
Manni
like can me Which brings me to my next point, I was i scrolling TikTok yesterday and I came across a ah young, ah he seemed young, but he was wise beyond his years and he said,
00:31:09
Manni
How do we know that we are the most advanced society when these colonizers came and burned everything down from all the other societies?
00:31:20
Manni
How do we know that in Alexandria, there wasn't a cure for cancer?
00:31:21
Steph
Oh. Oh.
00:31:25
Manni
How do we know that in these African countries, there wasn't the cure and these colonizers just came and burned everything down that would have got us there?
00:31:39
Manni
So when we're talking about black women and we're talking about like rest and revolutionizing rest, for me, what I hear is going back to my ancestral roots and my intuition of what I know to be true from being birthed from this motherland, that like, I don't need product. I don't need these industries to heal me in the way that they are marketing themselves to do, right?
00:32:07
Manni
I find that in community and all these products are doing is is isolating me from community. and going back to Black, you know, to Indigenous ancient Black practices, our communities or our wealth came from these spiritual practices and bondage of of like our our our chanting, our dancing, our our um our relationship with plants and the earth, right? And so
00:32:41
Manni
When a certain demographic does that, right they it it's you have to pay for it. right And the reason why for us, um it's we are seen as less advanced is because we didn't put a profit process ah price on it.
00:33:00
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm.
00:33:04
Manni
But there isn't a price on it. you know
00:33:10
Steph
Yeah.
00:33:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Ooh, yeah, that hit hit me. The reason why we're seen as less advanced is because we didn't put a price on it. It's like, I can't believe how much capitalism is coming up here.
00:33:24
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I am a businesswoman.
00:33:25
Steph
Yeah.
00:33:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah Yikes. um Yes, I think that that is exactly where my mind, well, not so eloquently said, but exactly where my mind was going when I was reading up for this discussion is how something so pure, you know, this idea that if we're going to advance and if we're going to progress
00:33:50
Manni
Ha ha ha ha!
00:33:57
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Um, and if we're going to, as a people become better, we have to start in inside ourselves essentially. And then cap capitalism got their hands on that concept and now is doing exactly the opposite of the intent, which is about selling products to your point and making people have yet another distraction to focus on so that we don't look behind the curtain.
00:34:28
Manni
Yeah. and i and i And I have friends in the wellness center industry. I have witchy friends who aren't black and they what they, the healing messages and practices that they, um that they, ah i I use cell very lightly.
00:34:45
Steph
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:34:48
Manni
um I believe in. I do want to say that, right? And like saying, I think it's the mass production that we're really talking about here. And again, ah the definition in the vocabulary, like, because I have experienced this transaction of healing from um women who are not in the Black community, I will say I have experienced significant transformational um spiritual connection.
00:35:18
Manni
I don't want to say that that's not...
00:35:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And we also just like leading a little bit, but we will have one of those people join us as a guest in a future episode. So we'll get into that side of this discussion.
00:35:30
Manni
Yes. Yes. I think
00:35:31
Steph
and And that might ask like we're saying then like some of the spirituality and healing would be more to the truth like the true definition of what self-care is as opposed to what we were originally like when you hear self-care I'm thinking of like a spa day which costs money or like a facial or like a petty or um
00:35:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, that's a great point.
00:35:48
Manni
Right, what was gonna be, yes, that was gonna be my next point.
00:35:49
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:35:51
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yes, exactly.
00:35:54
Manni
And if I can think, if I can remember to link this, I was listening to a a clip from a podcast that Rainn Wilson, I think from um the office, he you know he has deep like ah spiritual practices and he he's the one who made put that idea about like yoga in my mind just recently.
00:36:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and
00:36:14
Manni
And he's the one who was like in in California, people use yoga of like, I'm going to get this, I'm going to go to yoga from 12 to one and get my spirituality, right? Instead of like, no, this is like your lifestyle. This is your, this is your, this is your true self, right? And I think about that with self care of like, Karen, I think you said it when you were starting the podcast of like,
00:36:38
Manni
I'm just going to meditate in the moment and the morning and say that I did self-care.
00:36:41
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Okay.
00:36:43
Manni
Like you guys were just saying, I'm just going to go to the spa and that was self-care.
00:36:44
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:36:46
Manni
And it's like, it's this immediacy and then let's forget about it instead of it's like, let's make it a part of every fabric of our being yeah ah and learn and grow from it and evolve from it.
00:36:46
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:36:55
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:37:01
Manni
It's not a trend.
00:37:03
Steph
israel
00:37:03
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Bob always refers to like current society as like the age of instant gratification.
00:37:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And it's like whatever we can do to instantly gratify ourselves, whether it's self-care, whether it's food, you know whatever moment we're in, and then move on to the next thing.
00:37:10
Steph
here
00:37:10
Manni
Yeah.
00:37:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's like we can't just allow ourselves to be present and to fundamentally change who we are in order to be better.
00:37:21
Steph
Okay.
00:37:26
Steph
Okay.
00:37:29
Manni
Yeah, and I think this goes to like I just it just popped into my head too as we're talking about this like dynamic between white women and black women like I'm sure there's some correlation here too at like the start of the suffrage movement right and some of the obstacles that were faced between white women and black women and how to
00:37:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's kind of sad.
00:37:51
Manni
ah how to fight for women's rights and we've we've seen that in the history of like black women weren't um represented in a lot of the movement after it started to take off and it's similar in the wellness industry of like crystals and herbs and ah juices and stuff.
00:38:13
Manni
And it's like, and it's like where did you where did you guys get that from?
00:38:17
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:38:17
Manni
Who do you think taught you that?
Reclaiming Genuine Self-Care Practices
00:38:20
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:38:20
Manni
And so when we're talking about like profit and forward facing and giving credit, I think that's more where um I don't know, some of so the the conversation right now in the black community of like the 90, let's rest.
00:38:35
Manni
That's, I think some of where that's coming from. Cause we're seeing that today after Kamala's defeat, right?
00:38:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:38:42
Manni
of Like we just need to rest for a little bit.
00:38:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
need a minute.
00:38:46
Manni
Yeah. We're not getting hurt or we're getting, it's misunderstood what we were trying to say. And there are some things that need to be filtered out.
00:38:57
Steph
It does make me think about, um like, if we're saying, you know, if you yeah make a daily morning practice of meditation, and that but and that not being enough, then what is or how do we like when you're saying it's it's a lifestyle um like like on the flip side doesn't introducing some sort of daily habit start to you know like it's like it's like there's like some truth to what they're selling and that if you take the time you know meditate you know do all these activities maybe it will permeate at some point because of
00:39:28
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:45
Steph
Like I really, I really resonated with, um, when you were saying that, I'm sorry, did you say her name, her last name, Lord, what's her first name again?
00:39:53
Manni
Audrey.
00:39:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Oh, sorry.
00:39:54
Steph
Audrey, um, Lord saying that she like, like Aubrey working herself in to the ground, basically.
00:40:00
Manni
Aubrey, sorry.
00:40:06
Manni
Audrey.
00:40:06
Steph
Right. And, you know, I. can fully relate to that because you know my my schedule can be pretty pretty tight and finding ways to rest has been really challenging for me because i I do believe that rest is important and I appreciate that there has been a shift in language about
00:40:38
Steph
rest being actually revolutionary and anne not wearing my busyness as a badge of honor and you know taking time is valuable and so on the flip side like though it has been kind of bastardized and like capitalized there you know I am trying seeking ways to rest you know and some of these suggestions happen to be good you know so it's like how do we
00:40:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:41:05
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, I like stuff. I like that you said rest is revolutionary. And I think that's, Oh.
00:41:11
Manni
I got that.
00:41:12
Steph
here And I have had, I've seen that before.
00:41:12
Manni
I'm just kidding. Sorry.
00:41:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, yeah. Well, Steph just said that.
00:41:22
Steph
business
00:41:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But no, I think that that was like a big theme. The Kathleen, Kathleen Newman Breming article did a really nice job of articulating that concept.
00:41:33
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I think that's um That's an important one because you talk about like, gosh, Steph, you are so busy like with your day job and then your night job and then your parenting and like everything that you do in the dance community.
00:41:47
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And it's like, um I'm gonna i'm goingnna get it wrong because I don't have it open in front of me right now. But basically like there's a difference between um overextending yourself and so stretching yourself.
00:42:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And when you overextend, you burn out and then
00:42:01
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:42:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um And then the man wins, you know, versus stretching yourself to become better and grow and, um, and be revolutionary, if you will.
00:42:07
Steph
Oh,
00:42:16
Steph
here
00:42:17
Karen, Steph, & Manni
But I also, oh, go ahead.
00:42:17
Manni
i Oh, sorry. No, go ahead.
00:42:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I was just going to say, i I like the way that you're thinking and like expressing this, um, a little bit, this like two things can be true thing where.
00:42:36
Karen, Steph, & Manni
where we don't want to let, I guess, capitalism take self-care and what it really stood for, but we also ah want to do it in a way that is accessible for us, that's realistic, and that begins to like change the way that we approach our days and approach our lives.
00:42:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Because you have to start somewhere. You can't just one day turn it on and be you know spiritually connected to self-care and preservation like that. That takes practice. That takes time.
00:43:10
Karen, Steph, & Manni
So I think that...
00:43:11
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:43:11
Manni
Well, I think that this, I was gonna say that, um I was gonna say two things. um One, this kind of reminds me of the Tradwife conversation, that there's like an element of privilege here.
00:43:23
Steph
Oh.
00:43:25
Manni
So like, Again, going back to like demographics, um you know if you're not able to ah just sit home and explore these things because you have to hold multiple jobs, that's a different conversation. And so um when we're talking about the messaging of self-care coming out of the mouths of a certain population, we also have to recognize its privilege.
00:43:54
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:43:55
Manni
that The second part about that, ah what I heard about the seeking is that the profit that the industry is making is by saying and selling you a magical elixir.
00:44:08
Manni
And that is the untruth that we're trying to address is that there isn't a magical elixir.
00:44:08
Steph
heading
00:44:14
Manni
It is a constant seeking.
00:44:14
Karen, Steph, & Manni
right.
00:44:16
Manni
It's just as exhausting to seek. and find and discover your inner peace as it is to engage in the system of capitalism. However, the outcome of seeking and finding that inner peace is a lot different than the outcome of working yourself to death for a company and an organization, right? the nature of the It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, the nature of the rain is the same. Yet in the marsh, it produces thorns and in the garden, it produces flowers, right? So like your intention, like planting that seed to seek is ah where you must start. And you have to recognize that if somebody is trying to sell you a magical fix, that is probably not real.
Commodification of Wellness and Authenticity
00:45:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Mm hmm. yeah Okay, I know we're getting at the end here. So I'm going to end with a quote from the Jordan Kiesner article.
00:45:19
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um And then I will turn it over for confessionals. But Jordan Kiesner said, self care in America has always required a certain amount of performance.
00:45:30
Karen, Steph, & Manni
A person has to be able not only to care for herself, but to prove to society that she's doing it.
00:45:38
Manni
Mm.
00:45:38
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I just thought that was Yeah, i I just want to end there. um
00:45:43
Manni
Yeah.
00:45:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
her ah Confessionals for the day, and I admit I also have a confessional, but um anything, any immediate thoughts or reactions?
00:45:45
Manni
yeah
00:45:54
Steph
um the I think I kind of mentioned it already, but the busy is a badge of honor thing just hit me in the gut. And, you know, especially because it was linked to her health you know and I feel like I'm you know just you know at this point in my life just kind of trying to um I am trying to take care of myself you know like going to the doctor and trying to figure out like um being preventative and you know I kind of decided I didn't want to like um you be a
00:46:32
Steph
40 year old without a program primary care doctor you know like just kind of like yeah you know just making good choices and stuff or at least getting to the bottom of things so um and so just needing to slow down a little bit and um and yeah rest is revolutionary as Manny said
00:46:35
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, yeah
00:46:52
Karen, Steph, & Manni
I love that.
00:46:54
Manni
What did you say? I'll coin it? Put it on the internet?
00:46:58
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah
00:46:59
Manni
No.
00:46:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah
00:47:01
Manni
You guys are making me think of a book that I read several years ago called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. and um I really enjoyed this book because it taught me how to build and pause into my day. It was more Christian focused, but it was, I think, you know, take what you need, believe what you don't. The principles within the book are um helpful.
00:47:28
Manni
And um one of the things that it talked about was the Sabbath. And I don't know if you guys remember, but like growing up, remember how everything was closed on Sunday? And I think this is, again, it's interesting how our episodes are threaded, right?
00:47:41
Manni
Because this goes back to like access and having access to people and like learning ring to like, like even for our, our nanny Jen, like I sometimes will text her at like 7 30 and ask her a question.
00:47:55
Manni
And then I'm like, oops.
00:47:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and Yeah.
00:47:58
Manni
You're not available to me right now. I'm so sorry I sent that.
00:48:01
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:48:01
Steph
Mm hmm.
00:48:02
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:48:04
Manni
And then going back to our conversation with ah the last episode, Steph, where you were saying like like ah that quote about the individual. like That's how I make change as an individual.
00:48:14
Steph
Yeah, yeah.
00:48:15
Manni
And my life is like remembering that. like Or when people tell me, oh my gosh, I'm sorry I didn't respond right away.
00:48:20
Steph
I apologize for that.
00:48:20
Manni
And I'm like, I don't care.
00:48:22
Karen, Steph, & Manni
okay
00:48:22
Manni
I don't have to apologize for that, right? So like these little tiny, like when we're talking about revolutionary change, it's not like this big massive, to the point of the quote, what you were just saying, Karen, of like, it's not this thing that you get to post on social media of like, look what I did.
00:48:29
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and Yeah.
00:48:37
Manni
It's these small interactions that you have with the people in your life where it's like, I respect that you're taking this time for yourself right now. And um I apologize for infringing on that.
00:48:46
Steph
Uh-huh.
00:48:48
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah.
00:48:49
Manni
are not sending emails to your employees at awful times and expecting and demanding responses, right? Like a proper response will come in 48 hours, okay?
00:48:56
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Guilty. Yeah.
00:49:00
Steph
Period.
00:49:00
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:02
Steph
Uh-huh.
00:49:03
Karen, Steph, & Manni
It's funny you say that because I, I, I've mentioned this a few times, but I was flying back from London yesterday and it was a Saturday and my days were all messed up. Like I was, you know, six hours ahead and I just, I had a very busy week and I was kind of like working two days in a day there.
00:49:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Cause I was working like London time in the morning and then I was responding to my team in the evening. So anyways, as I was flying, I was just getting caught up on the things that had gotten like left behind during the week. And I sent an email to a colleague asking a question. And when I landed, I saw he had responded and said like, I'm not at home right now, but when I get home, I'll send this to you.
00:49:44
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I was like, oh my gosh, I just ruined this guy's set. I responded and I was like, do not send me anything. i This is totally my fault. I totally forgot it was Saturday. This can wait till Monday. This is not urgent. But like, oh yeah, it's just a reminder constantly because we have access to all of this stuff at all hours of the day in our freaking hands. like you know And it's just, ah we have to be kind we have to constantly remind ourselves that the immediacy is not necessary in all circumstances. um Anyways, the the last thought I had, the confessional that I had was right at the end, Manny, you said something about profit, um and you were referring to companies that profit. But when you first said it, I heard profit with a pH. And I, in that moment, was like, when did we make that the same word, profit,
00:50:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
and profit.
Reflections and Future Intentions
00:50:42
Manni
Whoa!
00:50:45
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Right? I don't know. So maybe let's take that away because i don't I genuinely don't know it. But in that moment, I was like, how freaking weird and convenient that we made that the same word.
00:50:59
Karen, Steph, & Manni
And I don't know the history of the the modern word profit with an F, but something.
00:51:03
Manni
Do you have any epidemiologists out there who want to help us?
00:51:04
Karen, Steph, & Manni
um
00:51:05
Steph
currently
00:51:08
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Yeah, let us know. Or I could Google it.
00:51:10
Manni
Yes.
00:51:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
ah
00:51:12
Steph
Also, can I, before we wrap, can I just go back to what you were saying, like the immediacy and stuff? Because as a teacher, people expect so much immediacy.
00:51:23
Manni
yep
00:51:24
Steph
So like, um and you when you were saying like taking, you have so much access to the emails and the stuff, 24 hours a day. So on a Saturday, you saw your work emails.
00:51:36
Steph
Something that I did probably year two or three of teaching was I took my school email off my phone.
00:51:42
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm.
00:51:43
Manni
Mm-hmm.
00:51:43
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Hmm.
00:51:43
Steph
And if a student or parent messages me after school hours, I do not respond until the following day. I've stopped taking breaking home. The fact that people expect me to use my evening time when I'm supposed to be focused on my family so that students can get immediate feedback is out the door.
00:52:04
Steph
I am done. I am done being at anybody's beck and call because I'm a human being and I have a family and a life.
00:52:06
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Good for you.
00:52:11
Manni
Right.
00:52:11
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Self care.
00:52:12
Steph
That's all. And so, and that, and I, yeah, yeah, I forget that I, mm-hmm.
00:52:13
Karen, Steph, & Manni
That's self care right there.
00:52:14
Manni
Those are the little steps we're talking about. Yep. Yeah, I love that.
00:52:21
Karen, Steph, & Manni
Well, that is a fantastic way to end. Thank you for um um bearing with me when I asked you not to do any preparation. I think this was lovely and enlightening. And for our listeners, please follow us on Instagram, subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channels. And we look forward to seeing you all again next week.