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Mr. Mom: Derogatory or Complementary?
64 Plays6 months ago
Welcome to Episode 3 of the You can Call me Karen Podcast entitled: “Mr. Mom”. This week, we are taking our cue from the recent pop culture phenomenon, “The Trad Wife” with a You Can Call me Karen spin. In contrast to the “Trad Wife” we will celebrate “Mr. Mom” by discussing the working dad, stay at home dad, or simply the involved and helpful dad. We will challenge the traditional roles and stereotypes of men and women in marriages or committed relationships by asking: What are the labels and gender roles we place on our partners in relationships? How did our upbringing inform our expectations of our partners? And, how do we see these gender roles represented in media and pop culture?
As always - a big thank you to Steve Olszewski for the art and images, Calid B and SJ Fadeaway for the musical mixings, and huge credit to Malvina Reynolds (writer) and Schroder Music Co. (ASCAP) (publisher) of the song “Little Boxes”.
Links to sources referenced in this episode:
What Made bob Saget’s Danny Tanner so Different From Other Sitcom Dads
Instagram video of Dad v. Babysitter
This is How It Always Is by Laurie Frankel
Lastly, please follow us on Instagram (@youcancallmekaren), TikTok (@YCCMKPod), and like/subscribe wherever you get your podcasts!
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Transcript
Critique of 'Trad Life' Trend
00:00:01
Mannikka Rosa
The trad wife has become a recent phenomenon in popular culture that is picking up attention due to the deep rooted misogyny and toxic masculinity disguised as the mid-century modern aesthetic of a traditional housewife. As this trend takes off on TikTok users for you page, it won't be the topic of discussion here.
Exploring 'Mr. Mom' and Fatherhood Roles
00:00:23
Mannikka Rosa
Instead, we want to offer our audience a different perspective. That's right. Today, we want to talk about Mr. Mom.
00:00:55
Mannikka Rosa
Hello and welcome to the You Can Call Me Karen podcast where we will discuss events from the world around us in an effort to highlight our similarities rather than our differences. I'm Anika Rosa and I'm joined by two of my dearest friends, Stephanie J and Karen Horwitz. Today's episode, we are going to focus on what it means to be a Mr.
Introducing 'You Can Call Me Karen' Podcast
00:01:18
Mannikka Rosa
Mom. We will discuss the not so popular phenomenon of the working dad, the stay-at-home dad, and the helpful dad, as well as other labels and stereotypes found within quote-unquote traditional marriage roles in our society. Before we get started though, let's check in with my co-host and see how their week is going. Karen, Steph, hello.
00:01:42
karenstansfield
Hello.
00:01:43
Stephanie Jay
No.
00:01:44
Mannikka Rosa
Hi, so as we do in the style of this podcast kick us off, can you guys let us know who you call in caring this week?
Air Travel Anecdote: A Difficult Passenger
00:01:55
karenstansfield
I'm chuckling because like, it's just not as cute when I say it. um Anywho, this is Karen. I am going to actually throw it back because I had a lovely week with no Karens. And so I'm pulling from the archives of my, who you calling Karen stories, uh, to share a little bit about a time I was on a flight. I had just boarded, uh, I travel a lot and, uh, a lovely woman got on board and was putting her bag on the ah ah upper part.
00:02:30
karenstansfield
Why do I have no words?
00:02:33
Stephanie Jay
think
00:02:33
karenstansfield
She was putting her bag up. And I don't know.
00:02:36
Mannikka Rosa
What is that thing called?
00:02:39
karenstansfield
All of a sudden, I'm panicking. I should know what that is. Anywho, she put it up.
00:02:44
Stephanie Jay
Overhead compartment.
00:02:45
karenstansfield
Thank you. And and um I can't recall exactly what the issue was. She put it sideways and was supposed to go lengthways for something that made the flight attendant correct her. And she was she got a huge attitude and was like, it doesn't fit that way. you know I travel all the time or whatever.
00:03:05
Mannikka Rosa
Thank you.
00:03:07
karenstansfield
And and everyone around was like kind of taken aback. It felt pretty unnecessary, the response. And so there was this tussle over the bag, which literally expanded to an all out like Brawl. I mean, like there was no punches being thrown, but like the if she did, I would have thought that was a perfectly natural part of this story. And then fast forward, by the way, she got she got kicked off the flight.
00:03:33
Mannikka Rosa
more
00:03:35
karenstansfield
They kicked her off the flight.
00:03:35
Mannikka Rosa
oh What?
00:03:37
Stephanie Jay
Oh!
00:03:38
karenstansfield
Yes, it was so, it was like the epitome of Karen, like entitled lady who was like, no, I am going to put my bag up the way that I want it.
00:03:38
Mannikka Rosa
Oh boy.
00:03:45
Mannikka Rosa
He likes.
00:03:46
karenstansfield
And the flight attendant was just basically, cause we were still boarding the flight attendant and I'm projecting a little bit. It was basically like, I can't have this lady on my flight. Like I can't, what like when we're up in the air, I can't handle the knowledge of her physically being here. So she got the pilots involved and then the pilots called security and off went Karen.
00:04:07
Mannikka Rosa
Security!
00:04:07
Stephanie Jay
Daaaang!
00:04:07
karenstansfield
She did not get to take our flight. So.
00:04:12
Mannikka Rosa
And that, my friends, is why you don't be an a-hole.
00:04:15
karenstansfield
Just please don't be in it. It was like something. This is where I'm really trying to like shift my perspectives because like I feel like something had to be going on with this woman. Right. Like you don't just wake up in the morning like. I'm going to cut a bitch over the overhead
Car Usage Conflict: Who's the 'Karen'?
00:04:31
karenstansfield
compartment. Like something had to be up.
00:04:33
karenstansfield
That's just not a normal response to a slight correction.
00:04:34
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:04:38
Mannikka Rosa
Right. A slight inconvenience.
00:04:39
karenstansfield
I don't know.
00:04:41
karenstansfield
ah Anyways, that was pretty, that was one of my more epic Karen stories.
00:04:42
Mannikka Rosa
Whoo!
00:04:44
karenstansfield
So thank you, Karen, for...
00:04:45
Mannikka Rosa
That is pretty epic. Thank you, Airplane Karen.
00:04:47
Stephanie Jay
that's a wow yes speaking of speaking of so most of my
00:04:51
karenstansfield
Oh, they're all going to get labels now. There's going to be a lot of dance team Karens though.
00:04:57
Mannikka Rosa
From Steph.
00:04:57
karenstansfield
and see that for your future stuff.
00:05:03
karenstansfield
ah Nice segue.
00:05:08
Stephanie Jay
a lot of what I do especially in the summertime is travel for dance and one of my trips this past summer I was traveling with Some teachers they there were five of us that were sharing like a condo but We all had plenty of spaces pretty comfortable. So that was not the issue or anything, but there were five of us I am probably the most senior member of The staff and so um there's just kind of an unspoken hierarchy and just kind of like a that happens in our studio and we just kind of like give each other the respect, you know, like my director, you know, she would get first pick on things and would kind of like, you know, and it's just kind of unspoken and natural. And I'm not really
00:05:55
Stephanie Jay
one for that, but sometimes, you know, it's nice when that respect is given, if that makes sense. So each night we, for the, what we were there for was a competition and we, each night we had one car for all five of us and we all had varying schedules.
00:06:02
karenstansfield
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:06:13
Stephanie Jay
And so to go to the competition and have to sit in the convention center to watch the competition, you kind of were trying to figure out how you could be there the least often. And I think manning Karen, you guys can relate to that when we are plating.
00:06:27
Mannikka Rosa
Yes, those convention centers are dark.
00:06:30
Stephanie Jay
Yes.
00:06:31
Mannikka Rosa
It's like Vegas, almost, but not with the money and flashing lights.
00:06:36
Stephanie Jay
Yes.
00:06:36
karenstansfield
It's sometimes Vegas, by the way.
00:06:38
Stephanie Jay
and here and I just feel like we have had these conversations like, okay, what time are we going to get there? And how long are we going to have to sit there?
00:06:44
karenstansfield
Yeah.
00:06:44
Stephanie Jay
And we need to figure out a plan where we can maybe get outside and breathe for a second and stuff. So everybody's kind of like, I really only need to be there at this time and that time and so on and so forth.
00:06:48
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:06:53
Stephanie Jay
So each night we would all look at our competition schedules and I need to be there in the morning. Okay, so you can drive the car. in the morning come back to the house pick us up we'll come and then we'll all be together or tomorrow i don't need to be there at all but i will drive you there and i'll come and support and cheer everybody on like and i was very much like game like whatever you guys want the car was in my name i really should have been the one driving i was letting them drive the car if
00:07:00
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:07:19
Stephanie Jay
There was a time when I didn't need to be there.
00:07:20
karenstansfield
Mmm.
00:07:21
Stephanie Jay
and i would But I was always very flexible. And for the most part, the first two days, I hardly had anything, but was always the one driving them there, was always there to like support and cheer, even though I didn't really have much going on. Well, there was a day where I didn't need to be there until 1230. And one of the younger teachers needed to be there at 730. And so we were like, you take the car, and then you're going to come on back and pick us up.
00:07:42
Mannikka Rosa
Hmm, quite the gap.
00:07:50
Stephanie Jay
And, but here's, so this is something like a few of us talked about, but she wasn't a part of the conversation. And so she just went to bed without asking what the plan was. Then homegirl pops her head out and she was like, wait, what's the plan for the car tomorrow? We're like, Oh, you can just take it. then you'll just come back and pick us up. Cause the rest of us don't need to be there till like noon. And she was like, I wasn't planning on coming back.
00:08:14
Stephanie Jay
oh And we were like, I'm sorry. What? And this other girl.
00:08:20
Mannikka Rosa
How are we supposed to get there?
00:08:20
karenstansfield
There's one of you.
00:08:22
Stephanie Jay
What?
00:08:23
Mannikka Rosa
I said, how are we supposed to get there?
00:08:23
karenstansfield
There's only one of you. on her
00:08:26
Stephanie Jay
Yeah. And like. It's, we were just all like kind of taken aback into this one girl who's very like problem solver. And like, she was like, I can, I can come back one. And she ended up being like, it was not right for her to come back. She had a dance like right before we needed to be there right after it was awful that she was the one to come back. So when I, so mine's kind of twofold. Like I'm, I'm kind of asking you who you calling Karen? Cause I'm calling her Karen.
00:08:54
karenstansfield
Huh.
00:08:55
Mannikka Rosa
Uh
00:08:55
karenstansfield
Mm
00:08:55
Stephanie Jay
but the next day But I also felt like I was being a Karen because I sent a text to the group like, this seems a little unnecessary and challenging for the volunteer.
00:09:01
Mannikka Rosa
oh.
00:09:01
karenstansfield
-hmm.
00:09:09
Mannikka Rosa
Hmm.
00:09:11
Stephanie Jay
Could you come back and get us? Because you seem to be on a break. So I don't know who um you call in caring. I think since I've turned 40, I have found my voice and I felt like it was important for me to speak up.
00:09:23
karenstansfield
and Yeah.
00:09:24
Stephanie Jay
I felt like it was wrong of that girl to have to run back and forth between dances. And I was just, what took me aback was that I wasn't planning on coming back. Just the lack of like consideration for anybody else with one car or five people.
00:09:39
karenstansfield
Yeah.
00:09:39
Stephanie Jay
And It just felt, it but kind of left it in the air. Cause I also am not super confrontational besides like, I think that you should come back. She said, no, the other girl did it anyway. That's how it ended. But I'm like, who are you calling Karen? Cause I'm calling her Karen, but she might think I'm the Karen cause I called her out.
00:09:53
Mannikka Rosa
What the fuck?
Speaking Up vs. Entitlement
00:09:56
karenstansfield
and Well, that you could have more than one Karen and also like, I think what we're learning from this so far, at least is that there are times when using your inner Karen is important.
00:09:56
Stephanie Jay
I don't know.
00:10:09
karenstansfield
And so we've got to be able to find that balance of like, not abusing your right to be a Karen every now and then.
00:10:10
Stephanie Jay
easily
00:10:14
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:10:20
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah, and I think that's an important, I love that like introspection that you're taking because like part of the purpose of this podcast is not to like go out calling everybody stereotypes and labels, it's to also like reflect that we all
00:10:20
Stephanie Jay
Yeah.
00:10:33
Stephanie Jay
And.
00:10:36
Mannikka Rosa
experience and have these feelings and thoughts that make us consider other people pains in the behind and sometimes we react to them and sometimes we're able to like restraint but it's not that we're like classifying like pointing that like these are the people and outcast them and I think one time we'll talk about cancel cal culture and stuff but it's it's to really just understand that we all experience these things and to better come up with solutions on how
00:10:44
Stephanie Jay
Uh-huh.
00:10:52
karenstansfield
Thank
00:10:54
Stephanie Jay
Uh-huh.
00:10:59
karenstansfield
you.
00:11:01
Stephanie Jay
Uh-huh.
00:11:06
Mannikka Rosa
we can coexist with other people. And part of that is in talking about our conflict with others and being like, wait, who, who was, who was, who did the thing?
00:11:18
Stephanie Jay
who did the thing.
00:11:18
Mannikka Rosa
You know?
00:11:19
Stephanie Jay
Yeah.
00:11:19
karenstansfield
And can both parties be right or both parties be wrong?
00:11:20
Stephanie Jay
And I thought it was interesting.
00:11:22
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:11:23
karenstansfield
Like, because we always see it from our perspective.
00:11:23
Stephanie Jay
who And I thought it was interesting that I even said anything.
00:11:23
Mannikka Rosa
Right, right, right. Yeah.
00:11:27
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:11:27
Stephanie Jay
I think that was what like made me reflect a little bit because I feel like, you know, five or six years ago, I would have just left it alone. But something made me say something and I'm like, is that my inner Karen bubbling up?
00:11:36
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:11:40
Stephanie Jay
Like, am I starting to, you know?
00:11:41
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a fine line between like, uh, speaking up for yourself and like entitlement, right? And I think that that's why it gets so blurry.
00:11:49
Stephanie Jay
Blurry.
00:11:49
karenstansfield
Mm-hmm.
00:11:51
Mannikka Rosa
And that's why the, the, we're experiencing this as a society right now of like, what's the difference between speaking up and holding somebody else accountable and overstepping my boundaries and being entitled.
00:11:56
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
00:12:03
Mannikka Rosa
And and we don't always know the answer. So.
00:12:07
karenstansfield
And you raised something interesting, and then I know we'll move to today's topics.
00:12:10
Mannikka Rosa
Okay.
00:12:11
karenstansfield
Sorry, but Steph, you said something that struck me of like, now that I'm 40, and it's like, I do think there is something there, and I would love to go back and look at the more famous Karens, but of of feeling more confident to stand your ground and speak your mind as you get older, and just like more experience in life.
00:12:16
Stephanie Jay
and
00:12:23
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:12:29
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:12:34
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:12:35
karenstansfield
And so, it's it is this is It is tricky like this, ah ah you know, speaking your mind
00:12:39
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
Non-Traditional Gender Roles and Supportive Partnerships
00:12:42
karenstansfield
versus entitlement and a little bit it's perception.
00:12:45
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:12:46
karenstansfield
So I may be thinking at times that I'm just standing up for myself and it can be received as coming off as entitled or privileged and you won't ever kind of find that common ground.
00:12:53
Stephanie Jay
mmm oh my gosh oh you just unlocked so many so many things for me that yeah
00:12:59
karenstansfield
So it's kind of, it's just interesting, something to explore.
00:13:03
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:13:08
Stephanie Jay
if
00:13:09
Mannikka Rosa
Yay.
00:13:27
Mannikka Rosa
All right. Well, so now that we've gotten our Karens out of the way, let's get to our topic for today. um But before we do that, I do want to give a little bit of context of how this topic came up for us and um what is going on on the interwebs and in the cyber universe. And that is this trend of the tradwife. In fact, yesterday it came up in my TikTok feed again. And I just want to say we're not going to talk about that today.
00:13:58
Mannikka Rosa
There are some really interesting conversations. Two podcasts in particular I'd love to direct people to. One is in bed with the right. And the other is, gosh, now what's the Sarah Marshall brain fart?
00:14:12
karenstansfield
Oh,
00:14:13
Mannikka Rosa
oh
00:14:14
karenstansfield
Oh my gosh.
00:14:15
Mannikka Rosa
you're wrong about and i oh what you' idol we want to be on her show one day we want you on our And so they go, these two podcasts go really deep into the Tradwife conversation.
00:14:16
karenstansfield
You're wrong about. Oh, sorry, Sarah Marshall.
00:14:18
Stephanie Jay
Mm.
00:14:19
karenstansfield
You're amazing. We love you.
00:14:23
karenstansfield
It's just a little stressful. Sometimes it's hard to recall. Okay, proceed.
00:14:36
Mannikka Rosa
And we just encourage everyone to take a listen to that to better understand why we're, what the contrast is here, I guess, you know, and that we are kind of being a little bit snarky when we're talking about like Mr. Mom and and it's only in response to the tradwife and I do also want to say that if you if tradwifery is the preferred is that how it's got is your
00:15:02
karenstansfield
I think so.
00:15:03
Mannikka Rosa
your preferred lifestyle, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And I feel like that if that is what you truly authentically believe you should be, you know, how you should be operating in this life, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And I think Sarah Marshall and her guests talk about this, that like that is your prerogative, but it's when we start to suggest or make statements that other people should be existing in this realm too, that's where their the conflict comes from.
00:15:19
Stephanie Jay
Thanks.
00:15:34
Mannikka Rosa
so I wanted to get that out of the way.
00:15:34
karenstansfield
up here.
00:15:36
Mannikka Rosa
And I also wanted to say that, you know, we are positioning ourselves in a this conversation around cis heterosexual relationships. And we recognize that. and we're and And we don't want to be ignorant to the fact that this is not that this conversation is about those those relationships. And we recognize that it that this it might not be the same Mr. Mom, quote unquote, might not be what our friends in the LGBTQ community experience in their relationship. But I also think that in some way it does make it a little bit challenging for people who are who are in that community to come out and experience great joy in their relationship because of the hate-filled
00:16:27
Mannikka Rosa
and the I want to say like how people how people think about the dynamic within a relationship that there should be a woman and a man and so one of the things that I think keep people from expressing themselves and their relationships that are not heteronormative is this these stereotypes right of like well how can that be who's going to be the breadwinner who's going to take care of the kids when you have the same genders or whatnot, right?
00:16:34
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:16:37
Stephanie Jay
again.
00:16:55
Mannikka Rosa
And so I just want to, before we even dive deep into that, recognize that, you know, we are talking from our own experience, which is all that we can do on this podcast. But yeah, but I do also, gosh, I have a lot of alsos here, huh?
00:17:12
karenstansfield
Thank
00:17:14
Mannikka Rosa
I do in terms of like admitting, you know, our ignorance.
00:17:17
karenstansfield
you.
00:17:20
Mannikka Rosa
I read this book, This Is How It Always Is a couple years ago. And here I was thinking that I was, you know, of a certain ideology, very progressive. And This Is How It Always Is really opened up my mind to some of my blind spots and my biases for
00:17:42
Mannikka Rosa
what it means to be in alliance with the transgender community and and that is one of the reasons why this topic is
00:17:45
karenstansfield
hmm
00:17:45
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:17:52
Mannikka Rosa
for me, an important discussion. And one of the things in particular that I'm thinking about is the chapter in that book where the doctor, our psychologist, prescribed the parents a exercise to practice of how gender is played out in their relationship and to write down every way in which their um would see gender reflected in their sons would see gender reflected in their relationship in their household. and And the conversation that spurred out of that was really fascinating.
00:18:25
Mannikka Rosa
So you have not read, this is how it always is, that's like one of my recommendations. I think that should be a read for everyone, but especially for parents, for PTAs, for any school board members, I just, I highly recommend it.
00:18:34
karenstansfield
Hmm.
00:18:40
Mannikka Rosa
So that's a that that what I wanted to get, a little bit of housekeeping that I wanted to get a out of the way. And before I turn it over to Karen and Steph, I do also want to say that we are recording this podcast on July 26. This is about four days after Vice President Kamala Harris has put in her bid to be the president of the United States.
00:19:00
karenstansfield
who
00:19:06
Mannikka Rosa
And so with that, you know, everyone has been talking about Kamala being the first lady, but, you know, this conversation is also about her husband, Doug, being the first man. And that is like, ah yeah, right?
00:19:18
karenstansfield
her and Yeah, that's just, I've not heard that, express or maybe I have, but yeah, that hit me different today.
00:19:20
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:19:24
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. so So how cool the synchronicity and all that and how we are going to be bringing in this topic today. Anyway, that's enough out of me for now. I just want to talk a little bit to open it up to Karen and staff about your experience with quote unquote, Mr. Mom. What like comes to mind when you think about that phrase? Do you have any experience with this in your current relationship with your spouse, the gender roles in your marriage, anything along those lines that might be helpful for our listeners to
00:20:02
Mannikka Rosa
get some context about what we're talking about today.
00:20:06
Stephanie Jay
can go first.
Balancing Career and Parenting
00:20:07
Stephanie Jay
so I, my husband, Steve, um, we have a two year old and we, um, so when we met, when Steve and I met, I was already, um, in my current career, I am a school teacher and a dance teacher. So I have two jobs and my time. is crazy like I work kind of a seven to five kind of a deal for school and then I teach dance in the evening till like 10 p.m.
00:20:39
Stephanie Jay
I teach on Saturdays until like 1 p.m. and I kind of made that clear from when we met because when we I did make it clip I actually I actually reached out to Manny on this because I was like I don't know that he's ready for the type of busy that I am and he says that he's okay with it but here we go
00:20:47
Mannikka Rosa
She did.
00:20:49
karenstansfield
As you should.
00:20:55
karenstansfield
yeah
00:20:59
Stephanie Jay
And so even um from the beginning, um understanding that what I do, I'm passionate about and it does take up time, but I do make space for the people I love and I will make space for you. And so just know that like, so already we were starting out with that I worked a lot more than he worked.
00:21:21
karenstansfield
And.
00:21:22
Stephanie Jay
And so we were already kind of making adjustments when that came to be. At that time, I also taught i taught two nights a week and Saturdays.
00:21:29
karenstansfield
Okay.
00:21:31
Stephanie Jay
When we got married, we just started to plan to have our baby girl. I cut one of those nights out, but I was not prepared to cut out the other aspect of my um career. It's what brings me joy. It's what I'm passionate about, um what we do. um I believe in um those kinds of things. and And I feel like he has been very supportive of that, but that does real that does cause him to have to step up and take the lead.
00:22:05
Stephanie Jay
he is He does drop off pickup from daycare. He does dinner, packs lunches, um all of those things.
00:22:13
karenstansfield
Mm-hmm.
00:22:15
Stephanie Jay
And he I think is Happy to do it. He's that's his he he always says he's like my love language is acts of service and he loves a thank you He loves an acknowledgement like if I notice that he did something and I'm like, hey, I know that's you XYZ He's like, thank you.
00:22:24
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:22:36
Stephanie Jay
Thank you for noticing. Yes.
00:22:37
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:22:37
Stephanie Jay
I did. He just loves like he loves that and so when he feels like he's contributing that's when he feels most
00:22:38
Mannikka Rosa
Mmhmm.
00:22:47
Stephanie Jay
like, that valuable and he feels proud to contribute to our household. And and so that is kind of how we operate. But when I notice is that when I'm not home is usually when they call grandma and grandpa and they will FaceTime, and that's when, Quinnie gets to, like, FaceTime with Grandma and Grandpa, and, you know, and even though he loves to do what he does for our family, that doesn't mean that there's not days where it's hard, there's not days where he's frustrated, there's not days when he is exhausted, he just wants a break, all of those kind of things. And I notice sometimes, like, if I happen to be home when we call Grandma and Grandpa, and then when I say Grandma and Grandpa, I'm talking about his parents.
00:23:36
Stephanie Jay
they'll be like, Oh, you're home to me.
00:23:39
karenstansfield
and
00:23:41
Mannikka Rosa
Okay.
00:23:41
Stephanie Jay
Oh, it's nice to see you all together. Or it's nice him, not me there.
00:23:45
karenstansfield
Because they're used to seeing not you there. okay
00:23:49
Stephanie Jay
And, and I feel like those are some moments where he kind of gets these like hard knock reminders of like, it's not how it traditionally was, or that's not how he grew up. His mom was stay at home.
00:24:05
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:24:08
Stephanie Jay
And there were five kids and you know she was stay at home. and And when she did work, it was lighter, more part-time. She was home when they were home. She made all the meals, packed all the lunches, all that kind of stuff. it was his dad that didn't get home till six or seven PM. And so I think that I just kind of wonder, like how his how he was brought up my husband was brought up informs like what kind of dad he's choosing to be and how like on those hard days what is informing those his like his frustrations i think about that a lot but he's amazing i mean i i feel no stress as a mom leaving my leaving
00:24:42
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:24:54
Stephanie Jay
Quinn with Dad, he is just very hands-on, he's very engaged, you know, he understands the hair bows and he understands like all the things that I want, you know, and all the things that he wants and it's he's amazing but I do know that there's like the his upbringing that might challenge the dad he's choosing to be in our family, if that makes sense.
00:25:03
karenstansfield
Mm.
00:25:18
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:25:18
karenstansfield
Yeah, that's interesting.
00:25:20
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah. For sure. For sure.
00:25:22
karenstansfield
it It is interesting. I'll share a little bit about my experience as well, because the stuff I'd love to hear too, like growing up from for you, it were your parents more traditional, because i I'm guessing that they were just based on what I know about your family.
00:25:32
Stephanie Jay
Hmm. Hmm.
00:25:42
karenstansfield
So for me, it kind of started
00:25:45
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:25:46
karenstansfield
with my family, like my parents did not always play traditional gender roles.
00:25:49
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:25:55
karenstansfield
My dad was more the breadwinner, but my mom worked. ah She was a nurse and, you know, we were part-time in daycare when when I was young. And I remember, I have very fond memories of when we were old enough to stay home alone, like my sister watching us when, you know, over the summer is when my mom was at work and stuff. And like, there was little things we always joked with our friends with you guys in college, like my, my mom drank the beer and my dad did the laundry and the grocery shopping and the cooking and like there was very much different, you know, a mix of gender norms, I guess in in our household.
00:26:27
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:26:34
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:26:35
karenstansfield
And I've always been very like career focused and driven, and I've always said that like whoever I ended up with would would just very much need to be a feminist like at the end of the day. like They would need to be supportive of my goals and I found that my husband is similar to Steve in a lot of ways like he um does all the drop-offs drop-offs and pickups I whenever I pick up from school people are like oh you're Maxwell's mom and I'm like I mean you don't have to make me feel like shit uh but okay here we are and by the way like every time I'm at the park with max or something like that like I will have
00:26:51
Stephanie Jay
Okay.
00:27:06
Stephanie Jay
Yep. she
00:27:12
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:27:19
karenstansfield
a dad you know like approach me and be like, oh, you're Max's mom. I know your husband, blah, blah, blah, blah. like So the dad is the one doing the drop-offs and the pickups in that family as well.
00:27:28
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:27:29
karenstansfield
like There is a lot of men in that role these days.
00:27:29
Stephanie Jay
you here evening Oh, yeah.
00:27:31
Mannikka Rosa
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:27:33
karenstansfield
And so when we I think the Mr. Mom term is something that that like strikes a chord with me. It sounds like derogatory or negative.
00:27:43
Mannikka Rosa
Mm-hmm.
00:27:44
karenstansfield
and The reality I feel like is that it's it's much more even, at least I live in the city, so like maybe it's a little bit different than in more rural rural or so so for suburban locations.
00:27:51
Stephanie Jay
Mm
00:27:53
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:28:01
karenstansfield
Sorry, I'm over caffeinated. and
00:28:03
Mannikka Rosa
and
00:28:04
karenstansfield
so like Yeah, maybe that looks a little bit different depending on where you live, but it where I live, it's like we are not abnormal in any way, shape or form. i And I think that it's it's beautiful.
00:28:14
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:28:16
Stephanie Jay
-hmm.
00:28:17
karenstansfield
Like my son gets to see a dad that's like super active in his day to day. I travel a fair amount for work. And so they have like like two, three, four days in a row where it's just the boys and I went I went on a girls trip last weekend.
00:28:34
Mannikka Rosa
Oh, yeah, it's someone about post this.
00:28:34
karenstansfield
My gosh, it sounds like I'm not present. Yeah, it sounds like I'm not present at all, I swear, but I am I am.
00:28:39
Stephanie Jay
Thank
00:28:41
karenstansfield
But I was away last weekend. And we had this big festival on our street in the city that it's called Burger Fest.
00:28:45
Stephanie Jay
you.
00:28:50
karenstansfield
And Max like love that he gets to eat corn dogs in the street and like bounce in these like big bouncy houses and stuff. And I caught I FaceTimed at one point and I was like, I'm coming home tomorrow, I can't wait to see you. And he's like, no, don't come home, we're having so much fun.
00:29:06
Stephanie Jay
was reflect
00:29:08
karenstansfield
Which is the way I want that to be, you know, like, I i want to be missed, of course, but it's hard to be gone.
00:29:11
Stephanie Jay
Mm
00:29:11
Mannikka Rosa
right Yeah.
00:29:14
karenstansfield
And then the, you know, kiddos are sad on FaceTime.
00:29:17
Stephanie Jay
-hmm.
00:29:18
karenstansfield
And so when I see him having so much fun with his dad, it's like, I couldn't be happier. You know, like that just it makes me able to enjoy my time and stuff like you said, like leaving Maxwell with my my husband, Bob, it's like, great.
00:29:30
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:29:33
karenstansfield
They are having a blast.
00:29:34
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:29:34
karenstansfield
I have no worries whatsoever. And that just feels pretty damn good as a mom to like not have that angst, you know?
00:29:42
karenstansfield
So I hate that Mr.
00:29:43
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:29:43
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:29:44
karenstansfield
Mom has a negative connotation for me. I wish it didn't.
00:29:46
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:29:47
karenstansfield
But I also wish I could just be like Mr. Dad and have the same meaning.
00:29:52
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:29:52
Stephanie Jay
Ooh!
Modern Partnerships and Shared Responsibilities
00:29:53
Mannikka Rosa
Well, stay at stay at home, Dad. Right. Stay at home, Dad doesn't have the same meeting as like stay at home, Mom.
00:29:58
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:29:59
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:29:59
karenstansfield
No.
00:30:00
Mannikka Rosa
And so.
00:30:01
karenstansfield
Well, and to be clear, neither of our husbands are stay at home dads.
00:30:03
Stephanie Jay
Mm.
00:30:04
karenstansfield
Like they have jobs, you know, so they're picking up a lot of slack here and they should get a lot of credit for that.
00:30:04
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:30:06
Stephanie Jay
Jobs.
00:30:07
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:30:08
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:30:12
Mannikka Rosa
Well, I think that you're bringing up like a good point of like, OK, so I've heard two things, and and I'm going to try to center it around what I saw yesterday on another. Guys, I know I want you to join TikTok, but like also don't join TikTok because you get like sucked in.
00:30:29
Stephanie Jay
No.
00:30:29
karenstansfield
I don't have time for that girl.
00:30:29
Mannikka Rosa
who kind
00:30:32
Mannikka Rosa
But um one of the things that I saw was a man talking about, in context to the whole Kamala Harris putting our bit in for for presidency is that, you know, people are saying like, oh, this is progress for women. Oh, this is progress for black people. And the narrator was saying, actually, no, black people and women have always been intelligent enough, have always been overqualified.
00:30:59
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:31:01
Mannikka Rosa
This is progress for white cis men, right? it's Yeah, and I loved that and I think that that is like similar to what we're talking about here that like this is actually progress for for men.
00:31:13
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:31:15
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:31:15
Mannikka Rosa
Right. They get to understand the invisible load that women were carrying for so long.
00:31:20
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:31:23
Mannikka Rosa
And it opens up this gateway to empathy and trust with us and our partners.
00:31:25
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:31:26
Stephanie Jay
Mm
00:31:28
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:31:29
Stephanie Jay
hmm.
00:31:31
Mannikka Rosa
And that's why I subscribe to this lifestyle, because that's the kind of partnership that feels everlasting to me.
00:31:33
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:31:39
Mannikka Rosa
And so I just i heard that in both of your responses. And and Luke is the same way. And I get the similar thing of like, oh, you're Miles' mom?
00:31:45
Stephanie Jay
Uh
00:31:49
Mannikka Rosa
Oh, you know? but
00:31:50
karenstansfield
yeah Sometimes I'm like, do you need to be so startled by that? Like, yes, my child has two parents, and I'm sorry, one of them has a more flexible job to do the drop off and the pickup.
00:31:57
Mannikka Rosa
and
00:32:01
Mannikka Rosa
Yes.
00:32:01
karenstansfield
Like, that's pretty typical.
00:32:03
Mannikka Rosa
Yes.
00:32:03
karenstansfield
You don't have to be so shocked.
00:32:04
Mannikka Rosa
Well, in mine, in mine, mine, I am, I am very capable of doing drop off and pickup, but I have to tell you that like on top of the other, again, invisible load that I do on top of the scheduling and, the you know, I'll wake up and I'll have, I already have 30 missed text messages from group mom chats, right?
00:32:14
Stephanie Jay
-huh.
00:32:16
karenstansfield
Uh
00:32:22
Mannikka Rosa
i
00:32:23
Stephanie Jay
Yeah.
00:32:23
karenstansfield
-huh.
00:32:24
Mannikka Rosa
exhausted. It's 9 45 in the morning, you know, and so like, I'm also an introvert.
00:32:26
karenstansfield
Uh-huh. Uh
00:32:29
Mannikka Rosa
So going in and also having to do school drop off on top of the conversations that I've had on my cell phone prior to is a lot for me, you know, so like the fact that I have a husband who's going to help protect my mental health in that way is so loving, you know,
00:32:32
karenstansfield
-huh.
00:32:45
karenstansfield
a
00:32:46
Stephanie Jay
yeah
00:32:47
Mannikka Rosa
And then Karen, I also heard you talk about like your, and this is, I know we have to wrap up soon. So um I'll just push us into this direction of when you were talking about your family and how
Influence of TV Dads and Media Portrayals
00:32:58
Mannikka Rosa
you grew up. And so I can't remember if I've mentioned on the podcast or not that I lost my dad when I was eight years old. So I didn't really have a childhood where there was any gender role dynamic.
00:33:08
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:33:09
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:33:10
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:33:11
Mannikka Rosa
My mom was both.
00:33:12
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:33:13
Mannikka Rosa
She brought the masculine and the feminine energy and I'm learning a lot about that as I walk through life with a partner.
00:33:15
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:33:21
Mannikka Rosa
So for me and bringing in the last kind of segment, I guess, of our podcast today is that my depiction of a dad was from pop culture and media.
00:33:30
Stephanie Jay
I'm moving.
00:33:31
karenstansfield
Oh, yeah.
00:33:31
Mannikka Rosa
And that's how I learned what a dad was supposed to be. And so when I look at my husband care for my kids, I'm like, this is what a dad is. You know, like I get so confused sometimes because I'm like, are you, is that how this is weird to me?
00:33:42
karenstansfield
yeah
00:33:42
Stephanie Jay
I'm
00:33:47
Mannikka Rosa
I never experienced this, you know?
00:33:49
Stephanie Jay
moving.
00:33:50
Mannikka Rosa
on So anyway, just as we close out the podcast, I'd love to hear like, who's your favorite TV dad? Or what are some of the like dads depicted on children's shows that you're watching with your kids that you're like, why the hell are they saying like, why is why is Daddy Pig such an idiot? You know what I mean? Like,
00:34:10
karenstansfield
Oh my gosh, but I love Bandit from Bluey.
00:34:11
Mannikka Rosa
but
00:34:13
karenstansfield
I love him so much.
00:34:14
Mannikka Rosa
Yes, he's a mate. He's so dumb. That's what I'm saying. Okay, so anyway, I just want to throw that out. Who's your favorite TV dad? Or what are your experiences watching like dads on TV?
00:34:24
Stephanie Jay
and I'll go.
00:34:26
Mannikka Rosa
And how does that connect to this quote unquote, like Mr. Dad concept?
00:34:31
karenstansfield
Steph, I'm going to have you go first, yeah.
00:34:35
Stephanie Jay
Yeah, I am also feel like I'm kind of the only one who didn't really talk about like my parents just briefly like my mom did work like both my mom and dad worked, but my mom left work early enough to be the one at home doing dinner, checking homework, you know, and then so it there were some things that were shared but um the traditional laundry Food like all that stuff was definitely my mom.
00:34:59
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:35:02
Stephanie Jay
And so anyway, I just wanted to chime chime in because that kind of informs like I think I knew when I got married that I wanted to work because I watched my mom work and she um So I knew that like I wasn't stay-at-home mom was not in my DNA because I watched my mom have a pretty high challenging career and Still I felt she was very present for me that's what I think is possible
00:35:09
karenstansfield
Hmm.
00:35:26
Stephanie Jay
but anyway, uh, favorite TV dad, my favorite TV dad is Philip Banks on the Fresh Prince of Bel Air period.
00:35:32
Mannikka Rosa
Uncle Phil!
00:35:33
Stephanie Jay
Point blank. He is the best Uncle Phil, because he is Uncle Phil and his children were not all biological and he, um, and he, um, had, you know, high expectations, strong, tough conversations.
00:35:35
Mannikka Rosa
so
00:35:50
Stephanie Jay
Um, he worked, Aunt Viv worked, and still present in all their kids' lives and, I just don't fulfill a man.
00:36:02
Mannikka Rosa
Uncle Phil, man.
00:36:04
Stephanie Jay
so
00:36:05
karenstansfield
It's funny because I was thinking about um you know the shows that I watched as a kid and the like the big one that came to my mind was Saved by the Bell. And so I know, I know. I just fucking loved that show, man.
00:36:20
Mannikka Rosa
Mr. Balding? Are you about to say Mr.
00:36:22
karenstansfield
Mr.
00:36:23
Mannikka Rosa
Balding?
00:36:23
Stephanie Jay
Don't you?
00:36:24
karenstansfield
Belding. um But no, i he I was thinking like, oh, he's kind of a TV dad. I mean, he was a father figure in that show. Anywho, I love you, Mr. Balding. But I think Bandit is by far like my favorite TV dad ever, Bandit, the fake animated dog.
00:36:41
Mannikka Rosa
ellen
00:36:45
Mannikka Rosa
Yes.
00:36:46
karenstansfield
Yeah, because he is fire. And makes me feel like a bad parent, honestly, when I watch that show.
00:36:50
Mannikka Rosa
fine I know. Bluey does make me feel like, damn, I got to up my imaginative play.
00:36:56
karenstansfield
It really, yeah, no, I can't even, there's no, no competition whatsoever. Like he wins the day. He is the best.
00:37:06
Mannikka Rosa
They are so present with their kids.
00:37:06
karenstansfield
Bandit, my final answer.
00:37:08
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah, that's a that's a good one. um I would have to go with Danny Tanner, and I can't believe that there was any other answer other than R.I.P.
00:37:17
karenstansfield
Well, I didn't want to steal your thunder.
00:37:19
Stephanie Jay
No, mine's right.
00:37:20
karenstansfield
I knew where you were going with this.
00:37:22
Mannikka Rosa
Bob Saget.
00:37:24
karenstansfield
Oh, man.
00:37:25
Stephanie Jay
RIP Jane Savory.
00:37:27
Mannikka Rosa
but
00:37:27
karenstansfield
However, i do like when you were talking about your like childhood and losing your father early, I do find it very interesting that you gravitated towards Danny Tanner because he lost his wife, he was a single parent, he had to fulfill both roles, and he did it fantastically.
00:37:40
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:37:40
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:37:43
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:37:45
karenstansfield
So I think there is interesting that you like found in a TV character or something that you know you could see in your own life.
00:37:51
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:37:52
Mannikka Rosa
Right.
00:37:54
karenstansfield
I thought that was cool.
00:37:54
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:37:56
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:37:56
Mannikka Rosa
Thank you. I'm not going to go to therapy this afternoon because you just unlocked it all for me.
00:38:00
Stephanie Jay
Mm-hmm.
00:38:01
karenstansfield
Oh, perfect. Yeah, thanks. Our work here is done.
00:38:05
Mannikka Rosa
Sorry, and but you're fired.
00:38:06
Stephanie Jay
yeah
00:38:06
Mannikka Rosa
no
00:38:10
karenstansfield
Just saving on those bills up in here.
00:38:10
Stephanie Jay
Ugh.
00:38:11
Mannikka Rosa
Oh, God.
00:38:14
Mannikka Rosa
ah Anyway, okay, so we have like a couple minutes left and I just want to again guide people to one more suggestion that I came across on social media because again a lot of what we're talking about is like in our lives but you know when we're thinking about society and when we're looking at this
'Husband PSA': Enhancing Relationship Participation
00:38:32
Mannikka Rosa
from like a generalized view of how we can all kind of have these collective conversations their social media can be used for good to like get some of this understanding and to share some of our
00:38:32
karenstansfield
Hmm.
00:38:44
Mannikka Rosa
you know, to share some of our insights. So I came across that husband PSA account and what he does is he talks to men about how to show up in their hetero normative relationships with their wives. And so if there are any men listening to this podcast who are interested in ways of how to grow in their relationship, how to show up for you know, their partner. ae Definitely give that account a view and a like, and I think you'll find it to be pretty funny and informative, so.
00:39:19
karenstansfield
I love that you said, if there are any men listening to this podcast, hang in there, men.
00:39:22
Stephanie Jay
we
00:39:22
Mannikka Rosa
Still listening.
00:39:28
karenstansfield
There's got to be something here for you.
00:39:31
Stephanie Jay
We just celebrated men this whole episode.
00:39:32
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah, we have been, we have been programming.
00:39:35
Stephanie Jay
We've been celebrating our men.
00:39:36
Mannikka Rosa
Look at us. Yeah.
00:39:38
karenstansfield
Yeah, but you're not listening.
00:39:41
Mannikka Rosa
Oh, are well, what I know three men who will better be listening.
00:39:46
Stephanie Jay
with hey ben
00:39:51
karenstansfield
What I do know is you can track like listenership. And so I will be looking for a man in New Jersey and in Ohio that has listened in its entirety. I'm watching you, Luke and Steve.
00:40:06
Mannikka Rosa
and Yeah. All right. So ladies, confessionals, before we wrap this episode up, what you got?
00:40:14
Stephanie Jay
Hey, Bill.
00:40:14
karenstansfield
Yes. i um I have one that I had to jot down while we were chatting because it hit me. um Manny, when you were introducing the topic and you were talking about how we recognize that this conversation is definitely more like cis, heterosexual, focused, and like the kind of traditional roles of male and female, it did occur to me that when I think of
00:40:44
karenstansfield
like homosexual relationships, for example, that there is this like need ah ah to place one partner in the male role and one partner in the female role, even if they're same sex couple.
00:40:54
Mannikka Rosa
Mm hmm.
00:40:56
Stephanie Jay
Hmm.
00:40:57
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:40:59
karenstansfield
which like I have found myself contemplating before as much as I hate to admit that out loud. And I guess I don't have an answer. Maybe this is a topic for a future, I don't know, uh, episode, but just like it, is that a requirement?
00:41:14
karenstansfield
Like, do we need to have both sides? Because it's very clear from today's discussion that yeah that one person can play both. the you know maternal and paternal role at times. And in ah maybe non-gender conforming, or what is the word, um heteronormative relationship, then um yeah, do you does that change? you know Does that blend over time? Or do you need one or the other? I guess I don't, ah ah my confession is that I don't really know the answer to that question. and
00:41:15
Mannikka Rosa
Hmm.
00:41:50
Stephanie Jay
I
00:41:51
karenstansfield
I've realized that through this discussion that I probably need to be better educated on that.
00:41:55
Mannikka Rosa
Hmm, I love that.
00:41:56
Stephanie Jay
love that.
00:41:58
Mannikka Rosa
I have a quick response to that of like, that I think, you know, what is uncovered for me is that if we just let go of the need to assign it, that it will occur naturally.
00:42:07
karenstansfield
and
00:42:09
Mannikka Rosa
So in some and some times I'm in my masculine energy and sometimes I'm in my feminine energy and sometimes my husband's in his feminine energy and sometimes he's in his masculine energy and the whole
00:42:10
karenstansfield
Yeah.
00:42:21
Mannikka Rosa
Point I believe of like being in a partnership is to balance that and so that's the discovery that's that's the That's the reason for doing the thing right is to try to find that harmony right and to recognize when you know We are off balance in that you know and and it doesn't necessarily have to be assigned to a gender right So I think that's what I'm Sorry so
00:42:31
karenstansfield
a
00:42:31
Stephanie Jay
Mm hmm.
00:42:42
karenstansfield
Yes, I love that.
00:42:43
Stephanie Jay
hmm.
00:42:44
karenstansfield
I love that so much.
00:42:47
Stephanie Jay
Yeah, that's kind of where that's kind of where I was going was when I were hearing you say that is like, I feel like what we have kind of come to the conclusion is that the partnership is it's the partnership. And it every like here are the things that need to get done. You got to cook, you got to clean, you got to give bass, you gotta cut nails, you gotta do hair, you gotta pack lunches, and somebody's gonna do some of it, and somebody's gonna do another bit of it, and who you are, whether youre male or female, does not matter, those jobs need to get done.
00:43:05
karenstansfield
Mm hmm.
00:43:12
Mannikka Rosa
Yeah.
00:43:18
karenstansfield
Yeah.
00:43:18
Stephanie Jay
And so if we just stop, like, I feel like when we're talking about the masculine versus feminine role, I think that comes from how marriages have been defined before us.
00:43:27
karenstansfield
Mm
00:43:30
Stephanie Jay
And I think us, our generation is like, no, we're a team we're and we're going to get this stuff done and deal break.
00:43:30
karenstansfield
hmm.
00:43:38
Stephanie Jay
Like we have a powwow, you handle your business, I handle mine and we function.
00:43:39
karenstansfield
Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:43:44
Mannikka Rosa
yeah
00:43:45
Stephanie Jay
And so, and I think my confessional is that I think like, Karen, you said it and maybe you said it, I said it like when you show up and they're like, oh, you're Quinn's mom. Oh, you know, C's parents, oh, you're home. I can't believe you're actually home. And I feel like those comments burn a little bit, but I think that that is more to do with me than it is with them.
00:44:10
karenstansfield
Mm-hmm.
00:44:11
Stephanie Jay
And so I think, Karen, you and I talked about this when I visited you. like I can't let those comments, that just means that I have some really like grappling to do with mom guilt and um realizing that we we do have an understanding in my home and I can't let outside influences take away from this wonderful thing that we have in our house.
00:44:37
karenstansfield
Yes.
00:44:37
Stephanie Jay
so
00:44:39
Mannikka Rosa
Yes.
00:44:39
karenstansfield
that is a beautiful way to wrap the day.
00:44:41
Mannikka Rosa
Yes.
00:44:42
karenstansfield
So, good confessional.
00:44:44
Mannikka Rosa
Yes. Thank you guys. That is a wrap.
00:44:48
Stephanie Jay
Thank you.
00:44:49
Mannikka Rosa
Cut it out.
00:44:50
karenstansfield
Oh! Oh!
00:44:54
Mannikka Rosa
Oh.
00:44:56
karenstansfield
Oh my gosh.