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Smile 2
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Today on These Guys Got Juice, the guys are reviewing the latest movie from Parker Finn, Smile 2!
Did the guys walk out smiling, or did they find this highly anticipated horror sequel juiceless? Listen and find out!
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Transcript
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're These Guys Got Juice. And we saw Smile 2. Oi, I'm Naomi Scott. And I just want to thank you for coming to see me bloody movie, Smile 2. It's a good movie, isn't it?
00:00:38
Speaker
Oh, thank thank you Naomi Scott for coming on for that quick play. It's crazy that that's like her real accent because you don't you can't tell from the movie that she's ah I thought she was like born and raised New York City watching that movie.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, it was a very convincing exit. I've never I actually. I did hear her voice um before the movie started. I don't know. There was the pre I saw the same ah if we're thinking of the same thing, she basically did the.
00:01:08
Speaker
and Does this just happen with a lot of most big movies now? I feel like Tom Cruise started it where like it's just a video pre-recorded before the movie. It's like, hey, thanks for coming to the theaters to see. I feel like post-COVID more movies do that now. and And so there was one with her being like, yeah, thanks for coming to see Smile 2. It was ever since Vin Diesel, you know, brought the movies back with F9. I think that that's when movies started doing that. They beat Top Gun Maverick to it.
00:01:38
Speaker
I do remember vin Vin Diesel's one is pretty good because it's like very dramatic. It's not just him in front of a camera. He's like buy a car. It's shot cinematically driving. You see the car driving up and it's it was basically like a proto had the Nicole Kidman ad already happened. Yet the AMC thing where it's like we come to this place for magic. He kind of says something.
00:02:00
Speaker
Along those lines he's like and but then he goes the movies Yeah, I ah Was there driving was he did he have a car driving around in the background or something when he was doing all that or? There's like a car behind him that he allegedly drove up in, but I don't think we see his face. There's not footage of him in the driver's seat driving that car to where they're shooting this. It's just we're supposed to, through visual storytelling, intuit that like, oh, I guess he drove that car there. That's why that car is there.
00:02:38
Speaker
Cause he's in the movie where he drives cars. So that's why I guess he drives cars in real life too. Honestly, ah and I know this is going to sound just like I'm trying to bring us back into the movie, but I mean this honestly, I could see Vin Diesel being in a smile. You know, being one of the people you see smiling at you.
00:03:01
Speaker
That would be freaky. And and and and not not just him playing a character, it's him himself. And then he's smiling at you like that. It's like, oh, fuck, Jesus. Yeah, and someone yelling, you're not real.
00:03:14
Speaker
you know that's That's what the third movie needs is like but more celebrity cameo. We had Drew Barrymore in this one. ah but that There needs to be, let's get Conan, let's get ah Jimmy Kimmel, like just naming late night beat people. ah Let's get- Drew Barrymore is in this.
00:03:36
Speaker
at the very beginning, there's the montage of, I guess we'll get into spoilers. It has to do with her backstory. And there's like the, there's an interview at the very beginning of like, Oh, you're back. Riley's sky or whatever her name is.
00:03:53
Speaker
Is it right? It's Sky Riley. I reversed it. Riley's, Riley's Sky baby sounds more- Two first names. Two first names on this lady. Like pick one. Yeah. Who do she think she is with her two first names? A lot of stars will just be- Same with Naomi Scott. She has two first names too. Who does she think she is? What does she think she's pulling here? Yeah. so Two first name industry.
00:04:21
Speaker
So anyway, this is the first name podcast where we cover Fast and Furious. first names This is directed by Parker. That's a last name, actually.
00:04:36
Speaker
it is ah It's it's such a last name that it's like jarring that it's it's it's why he's a good horror director, because it like throws you just his name throws you off off balance. You're like, Parker Finn, what the fuck?
00:04:50
Speaker
but yeah It's such a last name that his actual last name is ah another word for end. oh Damn. That's crazy. I didn't even put that together until just now. Wow. Bravo, but Parker. Bravo being named that. Yeah. Shout out Parker Finn's parents. Well, that's the podcast. yeah Thank you guys for listening. You're the rate. Subscribe. yeah Leave five star rating. Rate our names. but How do you think? How good are our names? Yeah.
00:05:30
Speaker
So what is what did you think of Smile, the first one? are you the I know a lot of people that hate it. ah well it's so Is this an easy movie to hate? Is it just because of the look of a smile, the iconography? Is it because like some moments you can find funny and people don't think that's intentional so they read the movie as bad? What do you think the reason is behind like People that say this movie just the first one at least is just terrible I want to address every single point you make because I think all of them are true in different cases like I do think some people really have trouble reckoning
00:06:13
Speaker
unless it's like overtly sold as like a horror comedy or like I guess Jordan Peele movies people are willing to accept that these are going to be funny but I guess probably because he comes from comedy but like other horror movies people really struggle with of like was that supposed to be fun like they think they're laughing at and not with the movie and it's like I'd say over 90 percent it's probably unless you're watching like a really cheap B horror movie from like the 50s or something. and it's It's probably intentional, the the humor in in the in the whatever horror movie. like most I'd say a good chunk of the horror movies this year we've reviewed and seen have have some pretty funny parts in them. ah Long Lakes has a couple of pretty funny line delivery.
00:07:00
Speaker
There's just like one character that's really funny and... Strange Darling has funny moments, if you would call that horror. I'm sure the substance probably. Did you say substance in Cuckoo? Cuckoo substance. Oddity has the whole like middle chunk, I'd say, is like an awkward comedy of Oddity. And then... You could say, oh, the front room. Did you say that already?
00:07:27
Speaker
No, but that's a very funny movie. That's mostly comedy, I would say. It's way funnier than it is. I don't even think it's trying to be scary, really, other than like the the scariness of religion. But like, yeah, the real silent comedy. Yeah, she was doing a lot of Buster Keaton gags in there when she's hanging off that building. I was like, this is kind of a shameless ripoff, but I'll allow it.
00:07:57
Speaker
Uh, but yeah, I think people struggle with that in horror and they assume the movie's bad because they weren't supposed to be laughing. But then also I think people do recoil against something that's quote unquote gimmicky. Like it has an iconic visual, the smile and like,
00:08:13
Speaker
i and Maybe I'm just not tuned in to where this would be shown, but I remember the first one being really heavy heavily marketed in terms of like they would just hire people to be at public things, smiling, or like baseball games, and you would just like see people in the crowds doing the smile. I think they did that at least once for two, but I remember being more ever-present for the first one. And I think maybe that just from just overexposure people are just ready to turn on something they're like oh well this thing's everywhere fuck this uh and and then the other part
00:08:49
Speaker
Maybe some of it is the people are getting sick of the like every, not just every horror movie, but like every other movie is about trauma because these ones are strictly like about that. It's about like it's spreading through trauma. But for me, I think these are like good examples of that. And we can talk about that specifically in spoilers, but Yeah, the the trauma that they're focusing on in this movie, like they really, really hammer at home where I'm like, this was pretty traumatic.
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, it it sells it really hard that you ah you understand like, well, if that happened to me, I would never get over that. So yeah like that that you you it it does a really good job of putting you in these characters, subjective, like emotional space, but then also their mindset, because this is like a very mental thing happening to people. So that's all that's to say.
00:09:46
Speaker
I like the first ah smile, I think, especially for a debut film. I mean, he had a short, I think it was like, Laura can't sleep or something that has the idea of this this thing that makes you kill yourself that transfers a person. I don't know if there was a smile part of it. I haven't seen it, but it's called Laura hasn't slept, which that's a very good title.
00:10:09
Speaker
That is a good title. Smile is probably a better commercial title. It's easier to sell and market a movie called Smile. but Yeah, and easier to make sequels to a movie called Smile. Yeah, you just put a number. I and i appreciate that it's just Smile 2. Anyone coming to this franchise later, when they want to like binge it after there's a few entries, they can just easily follow the chronology like one two three however many it's not yeah so many of these movies will just have a subtitle or when they rebooted a few years later it's just called smile again but then a different year there's gonna be a spin-off called wink colon in the smile saga from the book of smile yeah from the book of smile
00:11:00
Speaker
ah us a smart What's the subtitle for the John Wick ballerina thing? It's like from the... Oh, from the universe of John Wick. Oh, that's horrible. From the chapter of Smile cinematically. I don't know. I don't know anymore. What do you guys want from me? Yeah, what do you guys want? No, but I like... Yeah, this was Tap Dry.
00:11:25
Speaker
I like the first smile and i I, some of the critiques of it, like I can see where people are coming from, but then other times I think people are just, I don't know, some people are just haters and they're going in with a mindset ready to like, they got their knives out or something for some of these movies. It's like, i even if you, I could get, I definitely can get how, I could get how most movies are not, would not be someone's cup of tea, especially horror. It's a pretty subjective,
00:11:51
Speaker
thing of like what you find scarier is effective for you. But then to just flat out be people have a very extreme reaction to the first one of like that movie was terrible. And I just don't get that.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, i i so I don't get people thinking that it's flat out terrible. When I first saw Smile in theaters, I walked out giving it a mostly negative review. I had rated it two and a half stars on Letterboxd, and I'd like said some sequences were really good, but I said that it wasn't like worth seeing or whatever. and You know, rewatching it a couple weeks ago um for this review, the my opinion like completely changed. I thought the first smile was pretty like terrifying, actually. And like I know like you know we said that word a lot in our Terrifier 3 review, but it was one where watching it at home, I was like very tense, very uncomfortable. I was there locked in with the main character, loving her performance.
00:12:58
Speaker
loving the performance of the characters around her. Um, just, you know, at first I complained before rewatching like this movie's almost two hours. I didn't even care about the runtime. I like ah smile had the first one has become like one of my favorite modern horror movies. Like and that rewatch was like a very effective rewatch for me, but yet smile, I
00:13:22
Speaker
got right on board after that. I was like, well, because the Smile 2 trailer also looked really good, but I got like right on board after that rewatch of Smile and was just like, fuck yeah, give me whatever you got coming. Like, if it's like, and just, you know, keep it as upsetting and as like, like chilling, I guess is a good word ah to describe my experience of watching the first one. So make it as like chilling as the first one.
00:13:51
Speaker
And I'm I don't quite know if the first one if this new one um hits me in the same way as smile, but i I would need to rewatch one to fully assess that. But I think.
00:14:08
Speaker
if I saw someone make the argument that two is better, I wouldn't be like, that's crazy. You know, like, like I would be like, I i get I get where that's coming from. They're a bit different. They are. Yeah. We can talk about that specifically in sport. I feel like most of this will be because the trailers kind of just give you the basic of like, OK, there's there's some smiling happening again and now it's been passed to a pop star and I feel like that's really all you get. There was a in the first one and not saying that this sequel doesn't have any of this but I felt like a bit more of like a sense of dread in the first one it I had more of that like it follows feeling where I was like oh my god like
00:14:57
Speaker
I'm uncomfortable watching this person go through this like I want to rip my skin off watching this I didn't fully have that with smile too, but I still I really really liked smile too It's it's up there for me it I don't know where it ranks yet among all the horror that we've seen this year, but but I I really enjoyed smile too Yeah, i I think I would agree that there's like more consistent sense of dread in one. And I don't know if that's we can talk about specific scenes or like like stretches of the movie and spoilers. But this one, maybe it's just by virtue of we know how this thing works and what the pattern is that whereas in one we're in locked in with her real time discovery of the mechanism of like
00:15:47
Speaker
what this all is, whereas we kind of we know where things are going into pretty much. like and and But in in a way, that creates a different kind of dread that this is like this some inevitability that like you can't you just can't outrun this, ah and that's that what that's what we're heading heading to. But in one, at least, there was more uncertainty of, like well,
00:16:12
Speaker
she's learning about what's happened to every single person that this happened to. But I don't know. She's trying really hard. Maybe she's just maybe she's different. It was like, maybe she's going to throw out the thing, you know, like because it it hadn't been a step. And this was the first movie of this. Now it's a franchise, but it's like there wasn't a precedent to be like, this is how dark or how hard these smile movies go. So the first time watch, you know, the first movie or not,
00:16:38
Speaker
I'm like, OK, well, I don't I don't even know how these movies typically resolve themselves. So like, is she going to be able to defeat the monster, get rid of the curse? Like, I don't know. Like the that that that just adds more uncertainty in in that first one.
00:16:53
Speaker
I think just by the nature of these movies too they both play better on a rewatch just because they're movies that kind of fuck with ah your reality a little bit because like I said I ju drastically enjoyed Smile too or Smile a lot more on rewatch and so i don't know if i said this on mic yet but i've seen smile 2 twice i saw it on thursday and then ah when we're recording on a saturday and i saw it again today with doug and uh my first rating was three and a half stars but i rated it four stars this time it uh enjoyed it um i think quite quite a bit more after knowing what how it plays out and what happens
00:17:33
Speaker
I think I'm already at a four from the first watch, so I'd be interested to see how I, cause I agree with you that these, it will benefit repeat viewing. So maybe second watch, I, what if I bumped into four and I don't know, like, like I, I, cause there's like not any glaring things that I would point to of like, I don't like this. Like I, I had a really good time. I mean, my,
00:17:58
Speaker
If I had a critique, it would mainly be for our audience. I was like, guys aren't reacting to any of this shit. And we didn't even have like an empty theater. Maybe it was just because it was an earlier movie that people aren't going to get a reactive audience unless it's like at night and people are kind of drunk or something. or you know like no yeah people are Most people are probably not drinking and going to a noon showing of a horror movie.
00:18:21
Speaker
The screening that was before ours at 12 o'clock, one entire row was completely bought out. I think that was most likely all elderly people. So, I mean, it might've been a pretty rowdy crowd because I saw Atomic Blonde in the morning with a bunch of elderly people and they were fucking going crazy.
00:18:41
Speaker
During that movie, they had a lot to say out loud, and it was kind of funny. But, um... i Well, damn. You should have seen the 12 of... I wanted to see... I wanted to see this movie with a bunch of old people. My guess is when I see that, I'm like, okay, that's either a bunch of old people or that's a bunch of people in, like, rehab or some kind of treatment. Like, it's some kind of, like, group that are going together. They've left a place in unison, and now they're going, yeah.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, but like, I saw Smile 2 with a pretty big crowd at thursday on Thursday. I saw it at Marcus Theater in Orland in their Ultra screen. where Was your crowd reactive to like the scares in it?
00:19:21
Speaker
Yeah, I had told you um earlier today that like there was someone who had like a bird chirping fucking sound and they kept doing it during quiet moments. Yeah, that was being annoying. And then there were a group of teenagers that you could tell. There was like one or two guys in the group that thought they were way funnier than they were. So they thought that the movie would be better with their commentary.
00:19:46
Speaker
But so that was getting kind of annoying I was expecting somebody to say something to These group of kids because I'm pretty sure they were the ones doing the bird noise too and they were being disrespectfully right it was getting pretty annoying but everybody else seemed like Genuinely like scared like during the fucking like really gross out scenes um ah You could hear people reacting and making like oh, I were like, you know just like Very like reactionary noises, but no one ah no one was too crazy and no one was outwardly like Disproving of what they were seeing I didn't want any crazy. I just wanted to hear reactions in general like because ah especially there's like well the first couple kills you see or things I was like
00:20:35
Speaker
i i I would say some of it's shocking to see and and no one's going like, oh, I didn't like hear that at all kind of during our, ah and it was it's not like it was an empty theater. So yeah, maybe we should have we should just gotten that noon crowd. Those old people probably were wilding out. they Yeah. Old people always see the movie. I'd never expect them to see. It's always like something action packed or something horror. It's pretty funny. Pretty nice. I like catching ah an old like I keep saying old, but like an elderly crowd, senior crowd, whatever is the like and more appropriate terms, not even in theaters still. So it's not like they accidentally bought tickets for the wrong movie. Yeah, like that is a comedy.
00:21:22
Speaker
so Oh, this sounds nice. You're gonna smile. I like smiling. going to guaranteed to make you smile ah during this movie. um One thing I did notice too when I went on Thursday and I know like women typically like it I don't know if typically is the right word but like a lot of women I know like really love horror but smiled this movie in particular like it seemed like women were coming in like droves I saw like big groups of ah like
00:21:53
Speaker
and women just all, like, going in together. And it was it was just and interesting to see. I'm like, okay, it's, like, cool that this isn't, like, a male-dominated, like, theater, you know? Yeah. I wonder if what it is about Smile. I think, like you said, just horror in general. There's a lot of horror of fandoms. I mean, sometimes it vary from movie to movie. Some franchises probably skew more male, but, like, I think just, yeah, women women like horror movies.
00:22:21
Speaker
We're really figuring it out this year, too. Like, what appeals to who? Like, women really like smile. Little kids, they really like terrifying. And they said men really like the substance, so we're finding where everybody's interests are. Yeah. Turns out men are the real feminists. Yeah.
00:22:43
Speaker
uh i feel like i don't really have much more to say for non-spoilers other than like if you liked the first one go see this one like it's not it's definitely not gonna let you down even if you don't like it as much as one it's not like you're gonna walk away being like oh they should have just left it alone they ruined it or something like when you're either gonna be like that was a solid follow-up or you might like it more than the The first one, I'm not there. I don't think liking it more than the first. Maybe on rewatches, I could like really fully appreciate now that i like kind of you know I see where this is all headed. But ah yeah, I had a good time. It's a good horror movie. Most of the horror movies have been a thumbs up for me this year. There's not really a lot to that hasn't been hitting. i mean
00:23:33
Speaker
ah with a couple exceptions, but like this this is really solid. I would have to think about where I'd rank this overall, but I had a good time and yeah, go see it if you like these kind of movies.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah, there's some, I'd say there's a bit more humor in this one that kind of breaks up a lot of the horror that you're seeing, but it's like also to balance that out. There's one scene in the first one that my theater and I collectively laughed just because it got- The dead cat. No, the one where,
00:24:12
Speaker
she is imagining going to like when she finds out that the loophole is to like violently kill someone and she's gonna go kill that one patient and then and the scene keeps going and then the guy the doctor starts ripping his face ah like just it's so over the top until she like wakes back up that we all just started laughing it was like he was like why is he ripping his face off this is crazy I would say to balance out that comedy and levity in this one, there are moments where this movie feels like it goes a bit harder. It just feels relentless in a good way, though. These are mean-spirited movies, I would say, in terms of- They treat their main characters very bad.
00:24:56
Speaker
Yeah. And so I've seen people have negative reactions to that. We'll talk about them spoilers. I think it's just a nature of deciding on the tone, the bleak kind of nihilistic tone of these movies rather than some people think that that's like trying to be a commentary on trauma or things like that. And it's like, I don't know, we'll talk about it. But I think some people are having really uncharitable reads about like what these movies are saying. And it's like I I don't think I don't think it's that not and that's not to diminish that like there are themes and things the movie explores but I don't think it's that deep in terms of like I think it's just trying to be a ah disturbing fucked up horror movie primarily and then there's like some other stuff sprinkled in there.
00:25:42
Speaker
Yeah, then there was just like one moment in particular, and I'll get to it in spoilers, where I was just like, man, this is like putting this character through a lot. But that's kind of that's why I'm there, at least. Like I was looking for it after Smile 1. I'm like, I kind of want a horror movie that's relentless. And you get it with Smile 2. This movie doesn't let up.
00:26:08
Speaker
I like a good feel bad movie. I like it, especially horror it's it's easier to digest in the context of horror. I think there's like some guy because even if you're locked in or like emotionally falling the arc of these characters, it's just easier to see.
00:26:24
Speaker
people take a fucking beating or like be fuck fucking put through the ringer. ah Like there's horrible things happening at the end of the substance. But I'm like laughing and cackling at like how crazy it is, even though to the character experience, like tragic and it's like really mean to her. and But like it's still like so entertaining and absurd that like it's funny.
00:26:47
Speaker
but the and the nature of how like mean these are though like and how far it like pushes these characters were watching um it It it delivers these great performance performances because of it, you know, where it's it's expected. Oh, sorry. Can't speak right now. It's like the actors are expected to like push themselves to where these characters are going. And they really do in both movies. Oh, you buy it. You buy it from the leads. You also buy it. I think the supporting cast, ah especially in this one. I mean, it's more strong in this one. Everybody's so memorable.
00:27:29
Speaker
i say yeah that you are No, no, no, I'm just plussing and agreeing with that. And i yeah, let's go spoilers because there's specific performances and sequences that I do want to shout out. But yeah, I, I heartily recommend this movie. Me too.
00:28:16
Speaker
we're bad ah that that spoiler bumper reminded me of, I think this movie, I i haven't rewatched the first one in a while and and and I'm more eager to now, especially hearing you talk about, it was the first one reminding me how good it is, but I don't remember the score specifically, but I feel like there's music stings and moments in this one that are maybe gonna stick with me for a while is specifically Uh, in the opening, the Kyle Galner opening of like when, when this like opening, to let's just talk about this opening. Cause this opening fucking rules. Like it's one of my favorite. Say your score Q real quick. Cause there's one I want to ah mention too, before we get into the whole sequence. What's the score? How does it sound? It almost,
00:29:10
Speaker
It goes like, wow and I can't do it. But it it it makes like a sound that's almost like an alarm. No, it's not an alarm. I don't even know how to describe it. But it it it starts with this like kind of unnerving sound and then goes into the rest of the score. Yeah. It's just's like really off putting like the way that it feels listening to it.
00:29:34
Speaker
Is it the same sound as when, um, cause there's one like sound two that I noticed on second viewing that I did notice in the first, but it stands out so much and I love it when it's revealed that, uh, she has the knife and like, or not the knife, the broken glass in her bloody hand as she's about to leave the hotel room. Um, after her mom's like stabbed herself, it has like a war um yeah and it like,
00:30:04
Speaker
It's exactly so good. It's exactly that one. And I feel like it they use it. They maybe use it another time just to underline. it's It's being deployed at moments to kind of like just really hammer home of like, oh, this is fucked. Yeah, it's so good. I remember the first one having more of that the score in the first one. I don't know if it's the same composer, ah but um it sounds like they made ah slight changes, which I mean, good.
00:30:33
Speaker
for you to do what you gotta do, evolve your movie, you know, have them have different tones, different sounds. You don't want to recycle the same thing. But man, the score to the first smile was so fucking good, and it was like so off-putting, and sometimes it felt like it didn't always match the movie you were watching, but it created an unsettling feeling. I remember moments of the score in the first movie standing out more, but we definitely have to talk about the Kyle Galner scene. Did you have more to say about the score?
00:31:02
Speaker
I just looked up, it's the same composer, Cristobal Tapia de Vir. Good job on him, two good movies. oh he also He also did the theme for both seasons of White Lotus, I think, which that that show I can't even recall specific things from the show itself, but the theme of the the show and the music is like very memorable. so like i'm Now, he this guy's on my radar in terms of like if I see he's scoring something, especially a horror movie, I'm going to be pretty excited.
00:31:36
Speaker
um but yeah yeah this opening like i mean Kyle Galner, he's having a good year. I know I was so happy to see him back after strange darling and re watching smile. Right cuz he's like that's the closest I mean smile one is a very self contained story but we do have that dangling thread of like.
00:31:58
Speaker
of of him. And and i'm I'm glad that this, I feel like other horror movies, other horror sequels would have just jumped over to it getting spread. like It would have yada, yada, yada'd how it got from him to like our character in this one. Instead, we see the direct passing of... We're seeing it being passed from person to person throughout these two movies. like Yeah, there's a lineage of like all the victims before that like she finds as she's like looking into it. But like in real time, from these characters' perspective, we're seeing it like pass. And I really enjoy that. and And just the idea of... Like, as soon as it's on him and then ah he like puts that mask on in the car, I kind of had an idea of like what he was going to be trying to do. Because I had the thought of at the end of the other one, because we know the whole loophole thing of like, she talks to that guy in prison who's like, yeah, but it passed over me because I like killed someone. That's why I'm in jail, because I did a very violent public murder. And so I was like, OK.
00:33:06
Speaker
Now this guy has a unique opportunity, not trying to get super political here, but being a cop, you could maybe find other ways to kill people and to get away with it than the average person could. ah So I had thought that it was going to be something darker and he does something like more publicly, like in uniform, like and tries to like get off on like some kind of like justified shooting or something. ah but But he's like going like basically vigilante and going after this these guys who he knows are bad. And he's like, okay, well, I'm just going to kill this guy in front of his brother. And as you pointed out, he waited till the last minute to be doing this.
00:33:50
Speaker
yeah why was that not day one okay like okay give i'll give yourself a day to like it's really fucked up that this girl you were getting close to burned herself alive and now you're being haunted by this thing but within a day uh and he already. but I mean, I think there's from what I remember initially in the first one, like a lot of these movies, there's the idea of like, what you're saying is pretty crazy lady. I don't know. But he believes her by the he certainly believes her by the end when he he watches her light herself on fire. So hopefully he believes her. It's not like he needs to say modern herself. Yeah, spoilers. for st
00:34:26
Speaker
Great movie. But it's not like he needs several days to be sold on the threat of this. Like, ah like okay, give yourself a day, but then afterwards you should be getting ah your plan of action ready. I mean, did it take him like five days to scout out this guy and figure out his routine or something? I don't know. like I would have been moving quicker, if that's all I'm saying.
00:34:49
Speaker
What if, cause he botches this attempt. What if there's a whole nother movie where it's just a comedy and it's a series of botched attempt after botched attempt and this was the most successful out of all of them?
00:35:03
Speaker
right he tried a bunch of other times but then everyone there just died he wasn't able to like use those uh because there is i think there is a moment of yeah like we were saying this one does get more humor out of like the fuck situations these characters in and like after he shoots back at the other brother after stabbing the one and he realizes that the guy is bleeding out and he's like fuck there is kind of a humor to of like that it just keeps getting worse for him because like that guy's dead and now he looks out the window the rest of this guy's gang showing up and it's like oh fuck Like, it just keeps getting worse for him. of Like, man, you're doing a sloppy ass shit. It almost has like a, not fully, but almost tangential to like, if a Coen brothers type scenario happened to someone in a horror movie, it would kind of go down like this a little bit. And then he gets killed in such a horrific way. How does someone get split? It's so ripped apart. I was trying to imagine, but what what were you going to say? No, I was just like, how does someone?
00:36:10
Speaker
I know cars really fuck you up, especially if they're going at like extremely high speeds, but it looks like he got turned into paste. His whole bottom half is shredded. It looked like his foot got caught under the tire. It ripped it off and it just shredded his whole lower half.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah. And then i I mean, this is so upsetting. It's upsetting. And this is a thing I like. But while thinking, I was like, are the people are the haters of this movie? Do would they be annoyed that his blood streak makes us smile? And I'm like, I think that's cool and creepy. But I know I would see someone being like, well, how are we? we little bit
00:36:56
Speaker
I don't think about it in terms of the logic of the movie. I'm just like, yeah, we're in opening credit sequence right now. We're in opening credit land. It doesn't matter what they're doing. It's setting the tone. I don't believe there's an actual smile on the ground in the reality of the world. And if there is, it doesn't fucking matter who gives a shit. there could be and that's not hard for me to buy because this is a universe where fucking smile demons possess people and make them kill themselves. So like if there was some kind of supernatural fuckery with the environment that he like the monster somehow made that smile form from this death. I'm like that's
00:37:43
Speaker
I can fill that in logically pretty easily. That's not like I'm not getting hung up on that. I'm more ah enjoying just the how well of a table setting intro that is and in the vibe. And like, again, like once that score kicks in, it's so unsettling and it's like, damn, this and this is the movie starting. This guy just got obliterated. His plan went to shit. He got obliterated by this car. And now we're off to the races. ah Yeah, it's it's a great opening.
00:38:13
Speaker
Yeah, it it really is. And I mean, in regard to the opening title sequence, too, and like the smile, I mean, by that lot, I mean, are we believe in that at the and at the beginning of Ghost Protocol when Tom Cruise lights that fuse and it explodes? The words Mission Impossible came out of it, you know, it's yeah like that happens in every movie. I don't know. Yeah, people need to calm down. I don't think about it. Yeah. And the same with like cool animated like credit sequences where I'm like, I'm not watching the credits for she Shang-Chi. And I'm like, is he really Kung Fu fighting through water droplets? That's crazy. How's I didn't know that was his power. ah Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's just a cool intro thing. like Yeah, it's they saw a good opportunity and they took it like leave leave Parker Finn alone guys Yeah, leave him alone in jerks. Yeah. No, I think it's it's creative. It's creepy It sets that it does everything that it's supposed to do and I'm like like yes I'm I'm all on board after that it guy has me hyped to see Mike. Okay. This is how grim we're opening So this is that we're we're settling in for something pretty nasty Yeah, we're here. This is smile two. And it's like, yeah. So we find out throughout that whole sequence that like, well, he gets in the shootout, shoots the guy he was trying to transfer this to. And there's a fucking like small time, I guess maybe small time drug dealer, a guy who just deals drugs to whoever, you know, celebrities, people. yeah Shout out Lucas Gage, ah who plays Louis for goalie. I got a very good performance. This guy's face looks vaguely familiar. I don't know. Just based off. Oh, I guess he was in a few episodes of White Lotus. Wow. ah White Lotus crossover. Oh, OK. Now I kind of remember him in that. That must be what what I recognize him from. But he's very in his like limited screen time in this. He definitely makes an impression and he sells
00:40:24
Speaker
that the like we don't see all seven days. This guy has his own smile movie that he has to go through after that opening. And we cut to him a week later. But like he his performance sells at like, yeah, he's been going. And he even has the line when she shows up to his place. He's like, he's like I've had a fucking week or something. And he has like, he phrases like, I've had a really fucking crazy week.
00:40:49
Speaker
But he's also doing a bunch of drugs too so it's just like you could buy like oh this guy's just tweaking until like man when he like disappears into that dark bedroom and is just gone for a while i was like i would be fucking out of that apartment and then when she's like slowly like creeping into his room and it's just a dark room i would be like You're gonna die. This is where you die. This is a guy who greeted you with a katana to your neck and he was manic and then it and then went to do a bunch of more blow afterwards and like, yeah, I would be kind of scared. Yeah. And then just went into, he was being loud as fuck when he was in the room with you. Then he went into a dark room and fell dead silent. Yeah.
00:41:35
Speaker
Yeah. And then runs out like, when did you get here? You know, it's like, I mean, she she's faint like, I know she has to like go through back channel so no one finds out that she's doing this, but like you can't can't find Vicodin from somewhere else. Like you got I would the Katana would be the time when I would be like, OK, I need to find a new plug or like, you know, I need to figure out ah another solution to this because as this is i I got this guy just held a sword to my neck. Like, that's that's the time when I leave. I don't know. I've never had to buy drugs from something that that's sketchy of a sonar. I mean, bought some weed pre legalization from some some shady ask or shady, just adjacent people. But if they threaten me with a sword, I would I would leave. I would like to think that i that would be my time to exit.
00:42:32
Speaker
it If you threatened me with a sword, the the dynamic of our relationship would change. you I don't think we'd be podcasting together. You're no longer someone I have saved in my context and consider a friend. Like I have your name saved and I'm like, yeah, that guy's my friend. It's like, no, you put a ah sword to my neck.
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah, your parents your parents would be like, hey, do you still talk to Nick? You'd be like, not really. He threatened me with a weapon. They would be like, oh, like a gun? That's crazy. And you're like, no, a sword, a weapon nobody has usually. A weapon used by samurai. Yeah.
00:43:16
Speaker
They ain't around anymore. He's not a samurai. he's not Last I checked, he's not a samurai and he's not a time traveler. yeah He ain't the last samurai Tom Cruise, so I don't know why he had that shit. And if he is, I don't want to know him. He's a time-traveling samurai? You think I want that in my life? Yeah, that sounds complicated. i don't I'll watch a movie about it, but I don't want to like be part of it. yeah and See folks, this is why you got to do background checks.
00:43:44
Speaker
I do background checks on all my dealers and make sure and rate, just like there's a rate my professor, there should be rate rate your dealer and it's and it'll say but ah minus sometimes threatens you with Katana at the door. And you'd be like, okay, well, that's good to know going in.
00:44:02
Speaker
I kind of just do background checks on everybody, just like a thing I like to do in my free time, you know? Good to keep tabs on everyone. Yeah, I get it. You know, skim through an old school yearbook or something, just start doing background checks. It's kind of my thing.
00:44:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah, they went to high school together. Right. That's like the background because her best friend also knew this guy when she references by name. And she's like, oh, gross from you. Well, she says gross. Oh, yeah. killed himself Yeah. She's like, yeah you're right. Which for some reason made her more believable because it's like it's like it's a shitty reaction to have to such a horrible thing. But you're like, how would you react to that? You know?
00:44:51
Speaker
I bought into that fake out. I even, I saw that the mom didn't interact with her and I still was like, and not questioning it, you know, the market did a good job. You could see through it. I think there will be people who see through this and see it as the fake out. And I was expecting it because I was like, the first movie did it. There's a good chance this movie is going to like, kind of do similar things in similar places. And it does. But man, they got me with that fake out.
00:45:24
Speaker
i Maybe I'm just a big dummy. All the fakeouts got me in this one. and i get when in fully knowing that they'll ever Yeah, me too. and like and I fully know that even though it's been a while since I've seen the first one, I remember that that's part of the movie that it makes you see shit that isn't yeah there. and The fakeouts in the first one got me on a rewatch too.
00:45:44
Speaker
Yeah, so you're like expecting and looking for it, but it's somehow it's done. So believe probably because it's just so well of putting you in hurt these characters mind space of like it's so subjective that she's buying it and like acting like this is normal that she's with her friend. So you're like, yeah.
00:46:03
Speaker
That's I mean, and we don't have a previous content like we know this relationships on the rocks, but like we never saw them hanging out normally before this movie. So it's not like I have a reference point to be like, oh, she's acting off. This isn't the gem I knew would not be doing this. Yeah, not my Gemma, but not here, not in this place, but in her apartment. They got to give Gemma back to the fans. Yeah, give Gemma back to the fans. I.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yeah, it was watching it ah the first time and getting that Gemma reveal. I was just like, no, I was right there with the main character. I was like, no, not you, Gemma, not you. i I was like, oh, of course, when you see the phone ringing. But then I also I didn't you thought it was her mom at first.
00:46:52
Speaker
i I thought it was gonna be some fuckery with that, but then when when it revealed that it was, you know, you see it's Gemma on the car, I was like, oh, fucking, of course. But then I didn't even take the neurological step of like, all the interactions we saw with her were part of we're part of it, including when she came to the apartment. I was like, okay, well, this is fake right now in the car, but Gemma really came over earlier, right? Yeah, but yeah and they clarified that, no, it was like, I haven't been to your place in like over a year or something. i was like no Yeah, and then she's like Gemma hates you Yeah, I I did I thought that was a pretty funny moment from the demon um it's It's really mean it really likes to like it is It's wearing the face of people you love and trust and just saying the worst things to you Yeah well yeah it One reason
00:47:45
Speaker
that I think Parker Finn is really able to get away with this is because he has a fake out within the fake out when they're in bed together. And she was like, that's because nobody likes you or something like that. And then she reveals and it's the smile demon and everything. but And then another Gemma walks into the room. So you're like, that's the real Gemma morning. Yeah. And so like, I feel like that's why that is crucial and you believing it, especially when she's not responding to these text messages, because it's like, we already did the fake out, you know, but it's so cool. And I feel.
00:48:28
Speaker
And that's how the ending got me off guard too because it's like a fake out within a fake out within a you're like how many layers deep is it so the mom thing didn't happen and then neither did Gemma in the car and neither did any of it with Morris at that. like pia I don't think Morris existed at all.
00:48:44
Speaker
You don't think, okay, my read was that that meeting in the bar was maybe, I mean, the only way to prove it would be there were people taking pictures of her there and like, was there someone at the table? And she takes a picture and they never call back to it.
00:49:01
Speaker
That's a good, that's a good point. And like, did she actually text? I mean, it it can make you see and and do whatever. So it's like she could have thought she sent that picture to Gemma, but it never actually went anywhere if there was a real picture. But yeah, I was kind of the mindset of like that initial Morris meeting was maybe real, but then the ending is not, but it could all be. I mean, it fucks it's fucking with you to such an insane degree that it's like you can't trust anything you see.
00:49:29
Speaker
There's just a sound and visual cue in the bar that I noticed the second time around when like, people start interacting with her where they're like, oh my god, that's whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then it does like a boom when the screen shakes a little bit. And then I was like,
00:49:49
Speaker
Wonder if that's signaling like okay now we're back in the real world and we're out of whatever she's experiencing with the smile demon cuz his face is also like half obscured every time he's on screen by shadow even in daylight you're never getting like a full full clear shot of his face at least that's how it seemed like watching it.
00:50:10
Speaker
both times but so i was like i wonder if he was even fucking real or if that was in but i would buy too like that only the bar thing happened but when people start recognizing them uh he does like almost like a move like an extra would do all he does is turn and look like And then it's like there's just no movement, no nothing from him after that. And I was just like, wouldn't he try to leave to or something or like, I don't know, like he just is going to stay in his boot. Like, no one acknowledges like who's that you're with or like constantly point out you, you you know, no one acknowledges the other person there. question it because she's the pop star so of course that they're gonna all focus on her but yeah in hindsight there is no definitive proof of literally no one else interacts with him like she texts him she meets him at the bar but there's no other other party that like is like hey Morris you know and even if there was that person could be faked like that's how many how many layers this thing like gets to you on and I feel like that was upped from the first The first one, it did make her see and do shit, but like the the like the deceit within deceit, where it's like literally almost nothing you can trust. It's just obfuscating her view and her reality, like the entire basically the entire time, the entire week she's being just toyed with, but especially if Morris was never real.
00:51:42
Speaker
it's like explaining itself to her, giving her a false hope, and it's like that's so fucking cruel. that if that I mean, it tracks as the MO for this thing because the closest we can get to a motivation is It feeds on this trauma and pain and suffering, but also just like like a virus, it wants to spread. like Because it says the thing ah when she's in having the vision of the fake Pizza Hut at the end of like, I've been waiting for you, it says. And I was like, oh, it never had an opportunity to like
00:52:19
Speaker
You know, she's like a global pop star, you know, that's like, oh, fuck, I got this is an opportunity for me, you know, like I can fucking use you to like spread big, like if its main goal is to just keep spreading, it would be so fucking stoked to now have the opportunity to use her.
00:52:37
Speaker
like And beside besides all her pain, which I'm sure is delicious to it that it's like loving that, but it's like just the the possibility of what it can do with her. It seemed to be exciting to it. Like that's almost the most personality we ever get from because it's always wearing the face of other people. And mainly it's strict is just emotionally torture and terrify you. But I feel like towards the end, you get like a little bit of a ah besides just the sadisticness of it enjoying ah like, torturing her of like, oh, it's like, it's kind of excited about like, this is almost like a new possibility for it. It has dreams and goals. It has ambitions. It's very ambitious demon, you know? Yeah, it's not content with just the regular. Some some of these demons, they just like, like, yeah, I'll just spread it from one person to one person from whenever I get the opportunity. No, smile.
00:53:29
Speaker
Mr. Smiley, I'm gonna call him because we're but like he's just going out there. He's proactive. He like seizes opportunities he's He's a real go-getter. He's like, yeah, I this this is my American dream I I can spread to the whole world if I really try And that's what everybody always says about him. Mr. Smile monster, that guy. He's just a go-getter. It's on, you know, just, I don't know. That's on his LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say that, but I was like, would he say he himself? He's a go-getter.
00:54:04
Speaker
Well, he was just too humble. He would say have someone else say that about because he's always like fucking with reality. So it would just be like a fake person or another person he impersonated said that about him. And you're like, well, it says that on his page. It must be real because you don't question anything it shows or tells you. So you're just like, yep, I guess that's that's what's happening.
00:54:26
Speaker
Yeah but so you had mentioned that she has like it has to love feeding off of the trauma that she has she and there's a lot of truth to that because it really like presents like her trauma like way more than the first one like per I mean because the first one did really present the drama of our main character like and her mom who committed suicide like a lot but this one it's like so in your face about it like you get like the p ov of her waking up from the crash and then you get the p ov of everything ah this well this isn't pov it's kind of like um objective the car scene when they go off the rails is that this Yeah, initially it does seem like it's the boyfriend's POV, but then it keeps swiveling back and forth so that you're seeing both of them, which was really cool. I like that sequence a lot. And then you get it. Oh, it really was. It was the darkest part of the movie, I think it was the hardest part for me to watch was them going off that bridge. It was so scary. I have dreams of
00:55:34
Speaker
like accidentally driving off like the side of a hill and just plummeting in a car. It's like a huge fear. I've like driven through mountains like a number of times though so maybe that's where it comes from. But then uh the very final like confrontation it's like she has blood dripping on her when she's in this like on this table in the freezer and it's her in the car from the car accident screaming above her just crying and I was like God this thing is just again relentless I like at the end of it like um I was or the next day I was talking with my mom and she asked what I thought of it and those moments where it was using the trauma came to mind where I was like.
00:56:22
Speaker
Honestly it was a lot you know and it's like yeah it is those are the most effective moments and they weren't even like the most brutal moments or necessarily the most scary but really hard hitting it's not graphic but it's like emotionally like.
00:56:39
Speaker
it's a gut punch, especially the crash scene, because you're seeing but this really horrible fight leading up to it. It's like so toxic. like if like and i don't i mean I've had but like some arguments and fights in relationships, but not to the degree of like, because they're all strung up, they're they're like coked out. and like So it's like super, super toxic like to the like extreme degree. And you we know this crash is coming and it like has this impending dread of like, oh my god. There's a lot of moments like that where it's like the emotional or social distress is almost scarier than like any actual violent thing. like There's so many parts where I'm just squirming in my seat like when she's like at that
00:57:24
Speaker
banquet or whatever charity thing she's like speaking at for like the underprivileged youth and shit it's like so fucking awkward. It is. I did want to say like in regards to like their fight, I so ah years back I was with someone who had like substance abuse problems and like you know the same substances that they were doing like in the scene and I was like Yeah, not like just her, but both of them, like how they were behaving. I was like, this is how someone in that state of mind does behave in an argument. It is. It's ugly, man. And it's like I think that's kind of why it was hard to watch, especially the first time it took me back to like an argument that I had with this person where I was like, it is crazy how this thing can make somebody turn so ugly. I mean, yeah, because it's a combination of of everything, I'm sure.
00:58:19
Speaker
even without drugs, they were maybe at a point where they like weren't getting along or had issues, but the the level of of drug abuse. so So I mean, we're only seeing them doing the blow. they It's likely are possible they were just like having a free for all doing a bunch of other stuff, too, ah that like just all that's just going to compound all that emotional ah frustration and stuff and it just cause them to explode on each other.
00:58:48
Speaker
yeah it was it was a heavy heavy scene and like i said every time they like referenced it or called back to it in any kind of a flashback or something it god it's fucking effective though they when it comes to movies about trauma this one really makes you feel the trauma unlike any of the other ones i think I think it does both of them, but this one, yeah, it's way more forward with that. And so that's one of the main complaints I've been seeing about other than the people who are just generic or like, oh, this movie sucks, blah, blah. Some people are like attacking it from the viewpoint of like they're like against what the movie is saying in terms of like so this this demon's like a manifestation of your trauma and all this awful thing.
00:59:34
Speaker
that these horrible things that have happened to you and it by it wins in the end. So it's saying like you can't get over it. And I don't think the movies like blanketly saying in general, there's like you, the audience will never get over your trauma. It's saying these specific people who are being tortured, it's like not everyone's gonna escape their shit. Some people in real life without the aid of a demon,
00:59:59
Speaker
They get swallowed by the trauma, whether it's survivor's guilt or like some other, like, you know, especially someone who's responding to that with like ah substance abuse or stuff. I mean, well, she was clean besides the Vicodin, but like she could have easily like fallen off the wagon again through the Vicodin or something. And I'm glad she didn't. I'm glad she stayed clean the whole time.
01:00:23
Speaker
Yeah, that I mean, she was already fucked either way, but that would have just made her look more crazy and quicker in terms like how everyone else saw her. It helps you keep around her. ah key It helps you stay on her side.
01:00:37
Speaker
And you believe her, at least I did. I mean, maybe I'm just fucking gullible when she's saying that like, yeah, I'm just the Vicodin is purely for the pain. I felt her frustration of the situation of like, yeah, no one's going to prescribe her the actual pain medicine she needs because she's an addict. But she actually does need it because she had this horrible accident and it fucked up her body. So she does need pain relief.
01:01:02
Speaker
No, trust me, I like, you know, ah not to say it ah like super often, um, almost a year and a half sober now. And it's like fucking, especially earlier on throughout all of this, there would be moments where it's like, if I like spent a lot of money, I would have people in my life question, what are you spending all this money on? Or like, if I'm behaving slightly weird or do anything out of normal, you know, I had to like,
01:01:28
Speaker
you know hear it from other people right to do regular check-ins like people are really observing in the first thing they will go to like are you doing this again and people you know i mean that's why she was drinking but it's the same thing you know you. Yeah no it's a carries the stigma that marks you for for some people they're never able to get over.
01:01:48
Speaker
but a view of of someone like like that, but that's that's like the scene with with her mom. of like Her mom is immediately like shits off and she's like, are you using again? That's like the first thing she asks her. like that that That's what some people are like only going to be a able to... They're definitely not going to immediately think, oh, I think you're being haunted by a smile demon, right? you are Is this the smile demon thing? like I heard about that.
01:02:13
Speaker
And she does give a really sincere and like good delivery when she's like, no, I'm not drinking again, like a ah not not not using again. Yeah. I'll take a drug test and all that. And right before that too, when she's freaking out on her like assistant or whatever, cause she thinks that he trashed like the dressing room, I was like, Man, this performance is so fucking good. but Both of these like leads and these smile movies bring in just great performances. I love that horror does that for people that we we're like not always guaranteed a great performance, but goddamn, there's like so much room for people to shine in the genre.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It makes you wish that like horror was a more mainstream, not that award big awards, things like matter, matter, but like you sometimes you wish like being cool if like performances in movies like this. I'm not even saying specifically Naomi Scott should be nominated, but I'm saying like it'd be cool if that happened more often for for movies like this or ah felt like it could be a reality. But she is ah She's excellent in this and the fact that it sells completely the what she's going through, but then really probably more than trying to think of another movie that hammers this home of like the pressures that someone at her level of stardom has on her. and i mean The mom listed explicitly of like
01:03:40
Speaker
If you cancel the thing, then this happens and this will happen. like All these different people in and institutions and companies are like relying on her. it's like you are You as a person are not just a person. You're like a brand. You're a business. There's this whole infrastructure around you. and like There's all these things that are like Branch ah branching off your ability to like keep doing your thing, but then also do all the other things that that position Demands and you're like goddamn. This would be this would be a lot for anyone but especially You're getting over this traumatic accident You're you're trying to stay sober and now you got a fucking smile demon like like how you so how are you supposed to deal with all this
01:04:26
Speaker
No, it would be a lot. I it i thought of Britney Spears a few times. I mean, there's lots of pop stars that have had like. That's actually a really good one. A really good comparison. Yeah, it's specifically with like I started and I also started thinking of just like showbiz parents in general of like, oh, yeah, her mom is like making all her like business decisions basically for her. And I I don't know like the full ins and outs of of Brittany's deal, but it seemed like her dad had a lot of control over like her financial situation, like the conservatorship or whatever. of like her financial like She could just couldn't financially make any decisions for herself because of her dad. And it's like, yeah, you're like trapped if some of those people like that they just like can't do. like You can't quit. And then you have to like also, you don't have freedom to just be a person.
01:05:21
Speaker
No. So I don't think that you think this, but so I didn't find the mom to be a villainous character, did you? Not overtly to the degree of like what I just said about like Britney Spears. Like she she felt realistic in terms of like, yes, she is adding pressure onto Sky's situation, but like not in like a malevolent like.
01:05:48
Speaker
I would say any emotional abuse being suffered is pretty low grade. I mean, I'm not trying to make it sound like that she that's like all great, but like but in terms of like especially like what some of those dynamics in your relationship could be, I was like, she's actually a lot more well-rounded than how this character kind of character could have been depicted. like and you and You understand that she's thinking about this like like logistically from a business point of view.
01:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, she just doesn't want her daughter to build a reputation similar to Joaquin Phoenix's currently. but of Bailing on projects. You know, she's just like, not in this family. This is our last name Phoenix. No, right. Skyler or whatever. The thing that I would say would make her a bad mom is that she is primarily the agent manager thing is coming first.
01:06:48
Speaker
but But because clearly, especially by the time, well, I guess that didn't really happen, though, because I wasn't all in her head at the facility. But like at there's so many points where it's like your daughter is clearly going through something like pretty intense. And if she's saying she needs to cancel these events or like postpone a thing and your first response is like, well, we can't do that because of this and this and this is what what will happen. I mean, she is correct. And that's what will happen to her in the media and her brand.
01:07:16
Speaker
But your priority as a mother should be like, oh, let's get you. You need help. Like I need to. but Finish what you were saying. I have a question. No, I'm just being in terms of like, yeah, if your daughter is like ah pleading with you to like, she can't do this event or go on a tour and she clearly is going through something like the the correct thing to do would be to like, okay, let's get you, let's get you the, what you need, and you know, and then yeah we'll get you back on tour later. We'll figure it out PR wise. And so that is what her daughter says at the facility, right?
01:07:53
Speaker
that that is That is that conversation that happens, but then that didn't happen. I think part of the facility happened. I was trying to watch it this time. This was the stuff I was really paying attention for. and When does the break happen?
01:08:07
Speaker
I think right when she shifts into Smile Monster, the break happens. That makes sense. Yeah. I think that's when the reality is changing. But I think the conversation before that happened and like that's it would be interesting to see what really happened leading up to the concert. But I assume it's like eventually everything died down. I guess she just went through the treatment and was on stage. Like maybe the monster keeps her in like a state of just subdued like reality or whatever, you know, that's what i was thinking about throughout it normally just floating through life i'm like yeah does it look like you're just on autopilot or something from the perspective of someone because like she's having like multiple scenes in this whole drawn-out thing going to pizza hut and she's gonna have ah you know induce death and and all this stuff and it but reality she's just going
01:08:58
Speaker
getting ready for the show. She's getting makeup done too. I mean, there is a lot of stationary stuff that you have to do when you're in that position of like you're waiting while makeup gets applied to you and stuff. So like, it's probably not unusual. Like, oh, Sky's really quiet today. You know, she probably just slept the whole time at the facility. And then, yeah, she was on stage the next day.
01:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, it would be interesting to see from a not possessed person's perspective of like, does she even talk to you? If you have like, if someone tries to engage with her, says something, would she just give like an an unemotional one word? Like, Sky, it's time to go out. And she's like, OK, and then gets up or something. Or like, is it is it just like sleepwalking? What does that look like to the observer, you know?
01:09:45
Speaker
yeah like when the drug dealer is just like in his bedroom in the dark doing nothing making no sound as he's standing there doing nothing but in his head he's going through like a whole fucking 24-hour shitty smile experience that's not actually happening to him That's what I was saying. I was like, because cause we, you know, we skipped to his last day, but he had a like all these people experience a full smile movie, you know, like it seems like it has it has different tricks and things that it'll will do specific to you. But like it's it has its thing. It does. So like it's like, yeah, that's probably happening to him.
01:10:25
Speaker
And they always have a fake out before they get fully taken over and he disappears into that room where he like is just gone for a little bit before he gets fully taken over because we see him like choke and do the and like fall on the ground and everything what we see her doing later on stage but it's like I was like, man, when he went in that room, did he have a whole fake out experience that we've seen these other characters happen where he thought like he might have defeated it and then he didn't. And then he's just back in the apartment and gets taken over. That seems to be its favorite move in terms like I'm sure it has, you know, is there a little bit of hope right before it kills you. just just a Yeah, it's feeding on this false hope like because that's what happened in the last one too. like She thinks she's she's overcome this trauma and and defeated the the pain of like what happened to her mother and it's like, nope, you're still in the cabin and it's taken you. It's like, yeah, I i don't know. I love that about these movies. I don't think it's
01:11:26
Speaker
trying to nihilistically say about everyone ever that you won't overcome your trauma. I think people are kind of reaching on on that read that that's what the movie's doing. I think yeah these are like character studies and this is saying these specific characters are succumbing to this trauma. They're not getting over it. like they like so it's ah it's It's not specifically be like, everyone ever who's gone through this will never overcome it.
01:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, honestly, I don't think it's more of a statement about these people not being able to overcome it and more of a statement about how the people and the lives around these traumatized individuals like aren't that supportive and like aren't there for them in the ways that they should be. um Because everybody surrounding these main characters kind of let our main characters down at every turn, except for Kyle Galner.
01:12:18
Speaker
they're they're all i yeah If anything, Sky is way more isolated than I'm forgetting this like Kevin Bacon's daughter and the first one, her character's name. ah But like she actually does get one ally in Kyle Galner. No one is helping Sky. i mean is but i mean Maybe the first Morse meeting is real, but even so, no one by the end is in her corner. so like that that she has like no allies and she's completely isolated. That's what's so devastating about the Gemma part of like you're like, oh, thank God, she has one friend that's a writer. i mean it It's good that that revealed habit because it would have been a little ridiculous. Even if you're your best friend,
01:13:01
Speaker
Like, I'm not saying that I would turn you in, Nick, but if you ran out of a like a treatment facility and you have blood on you and you have a gun and you're like stealing a car. You'd be like, I think you need to go back inside and continue your treatment. now I'd be like, no, I'm going to drive this escape van. Let's get out of here. who you got yeah You'd look at me and you would be like, no, you should be a patient. here Like this seems like the place you should be in this moment. you know It's kind of like when you're actually in rehab, they always tell you, they're like, this is where you should be. You're right where you should be. you know something People would always try to leave because something would happen in their outside life. They're like, this is where you need to be while all of that is happening. you know That's the treatment you need to give Skylar Ripley. That's her name, right? Sky Riley, but I like Skylar Ripley. Sky Riley.
01:13:55
Speaker
So anyway, Daisy Ripley, she has him. I don't know. I guess I'm racist now. Against British people, I don't know. Yeah.
01:14:14
Speaker
Anyway, but yeah, were we saying it's a good it's a good fake out because it grounds the world, but it's just so devastating from her vantage point of like, like we said, like it, it she's completely isolated. And yeah, even before she had this pass to her, she had pushed her friends away. Like she was pretty much isolating herself kind of. Well, and just by virtue of like what her life is, it kind of is an isolating light. It frames it all as very tragic that this is like, you're like, damn. I mean, she was kind of fucked. fred from like so Something bad might have likely happened, even if no Smile Monster happened. it Maybe wish it wasn't going to work out for her because of like the deck the deck just seems stacked against her in terms of like
01:15:02
Speaker
just everything that's happened to her. She has little to no support. And it's just like she has all this pressure and things expected of her. It's like, yeah, um you that that would fucking break a lot of people.
01:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. And it just, it sucks that she's breaking down so openly in the public eye too. Like when that speech gets like so derailed, I was just like, nobody's going to want to be on your side after this. Like you accidentally knocked over an old lady. Like you come out with your lipstick all over the place. It's like you're freaking out on stage. It's like, ah, you just you know it's gonna happen publicly you're expecting the meltdown publicly or something fucked up to happen because of the cat situation but it's like yeah but it's it's still it's so uncomfortable and if and you just know she's losing allies
01:16:02
Speaker
If anything, there should have been, it's it's wild that like, I mean, I guess these tours get booked so far in advance and it would cost the people booking it money to cancel things. But like, there would there have been more consequences for that meltdown happening at at the bank? In terms of like, maybe at least there's like people protesting outside the concert of like, ah, Sky Riley knocks over old people. Like, it was people should be upset by that, right? Like, did that happened.
01:16:30
Speaker
She should be trying to get cancelled. The movie, she just stops dealing with the sp is the smile monster and it's just her handling a PR nightmare, the rest of it. I'd watch that. It sounds good. I would too. I do want to shout out a moment in particular. It's the the dance sequence where they're like rehearsing the live show. um I really like when she... Well, I like the sequence as a whole. I like the song too. I'm going to go look it up and maybe listen to it a couple of times. It might end up in my pre playlist.
01:17:04
Speaker
but I really like when she falls and like quote-unquote breaks her leg and the camera move to reveal that it's not broken. It like you know it's focused on her then the camera kind of pulls back a little bit and then it plays this like music like a reveal where you should be like oh almost and I don't know why it's like the only moment of the movie that's played like that but it was like I don't know. It had a charm to it that I really enjoyed. The music had like almost like a little twinkle like, oh, it's not broken. And no, no, it was very effective. And just this year alone, I feel like there's been a couple of movies with gnarly leg or knee stuff because it wasn't even like gory. But there's the scene in Challengers where Zendaya we see the injury that like derailed her career and it's like, oh, it looks like knees should not move that way. That looks bad.
01:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's very hard to watch and bones just breaking out of skin too. It's hard to handle. I've never seen it in real life and I hope to never see it. And even more so, I hope to never experience it.
01:18:14
Speaker
She goes through just some gnarly, but even if the stuff that happens in her mind, she's still experiencing it to some real if it's happening to your your brain, it's like you're feeling it. So like ah ah she like the fucking when she steps on the glass and she has a glass in her foot like that's like, oh, my God. Yeah, I was telling you I just tingled for a second just this thinking about that.
01:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, I had a pretty thick piece of glass stab through my thumb before, and it got in there pretty deep. And it was like, god, that that was painful. That hurt. That bled a lot and took a long time to heal. and So I can't even imagine. I mean, the force, she's not doing it gently. you know She's applying all force onto that piece of glass, and it's shattering into her foot as she's stepping on it. Yeah.
01:19:11
Speaker
Oh, it's all just so fucked, man. ah There was something else I wanted to say about. Oh, yeah. And just like talk about like putting you in the head space of the character. I kept imagining how it would be like just sustaining those injuries of that car accident, the shattered leg, you know whatever fucked up and like stabbed into her stomach or whatever in her back that caused her to get those scars. it's like And then just having to dangle there while you're in pain for God knows how long. Yeah. It's fucking horrific, man. I mean, and they sell it as being just the worst thing you can experience. And even the fall to like that crash, you don't see the impact, but it's like you're seeing the first couple of seconds of the fall and it's like, God, you can't undo that.
01:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's fucking it's really effective I know I'm focusing on like the non-horror part of this movie being like oh my god this part But man well that is part of the horror of these movies specifically is this yeah I mean it's cliche is it but but it is about these are about trauma so like that is part of the horror is these horrible things that these characters are are haunted by so I think I think it is important to highlight highlight those sequences and yeah, I Oh, speaking of the scars on her stomach, that's a really good setup of like earlier on, you see her trying on that costume and she's like, I don't want this. People will see my scar when I'm on stage. And then at the very end, ah when you see the like.
01:20:50
Speaker
the mirror version, evil version of her open up like the the chest from from the scar and the monster crawl. I love every time like both of these movies have awesome endings and I love the actual because something like this could be like Yeah, just never ever show this monster or entity. like It's way scarier that it's like always hiding in this other. I think that the fact that we always build up to it and like when it's revealing itself, to because we're seeing this subjectively from these characters' point of view, that we see it finally revealing itself before it takes you. it It's very effective. And just from an effects standpoint,
01:21:30
Speaker
I don't know, I haven't seen the behind the scenes specifically for this one, but when the monster transforms and is like about to crawl into her in the first one, a lot of that's practical. They like built a ah thing to like have the the form of the monster. And I would believe that that there was a lot of practical in in its... form in it It looked like a mix of practical and CG. if It looks like it starts as practical, the arms come out at CG, and then like when you're getting the full body shot, it looks pretty practical.
01:21:59
Speaker
Right. When there's that side shot of you see it like extending out of the the stomach. I like. Yeah, and it's cool that you don't see it in the same form each time because like, yeah, it has like the multiple mouths and it's like this fleshy like.
01:22:14
Speaker
ah gory but body i don't even know how to describe like its skin it's quotequote skin because it doesn't have skin but like that how this thing looks but like the fact that it's like coming like me yeah it's just it's just body meat it's it's body meat and mouths and like it the yeah the fact that this one grew out of the stomach out of the scar out of her pain and her trauma the physical representation of that it grew out of that and now it's taking her over like it's just so fucking cool and the effect of her ripping her stomach open too is so gross and it looks so real and upsetting it's a really yeah the effects are fucking great in that scene um there was something else I was gonna say about it um oh no I was I had a question about a a different scene but do you have more to add about that
01:23:10
Speaker
Uh, not about that scene specifically before we got too far from it. I wanted to just highlight the, cause you were talking about how that rehearsal scene, how well that was shot and how, cool I just ah shot out the cinematographer, Charlie, uh, Sarah for Sarah off. Uh, besides these two, the main other thing I recognize that he shot is there was a horror movie called relic, which I remember being pretty solid, especially visually.
01:23:36
Speaker
like that That movie ah was was very effective. but i think so I shouldn't spend too much time trying to imagine the viewpoint of people who hate on this because who cares. But like I could definitely see people being like, ah her world's turned upside down. We're having a cameras like 180 flipped upside down, what ah so on on the nose.
01:23:59
Speaker
It was both movies all the times it does it. I'm into it, except for there was a point at it's probably the last one it does at the end when she's driving to the Pizza Hut. And it mostly my complaint about that one is just the speed of it's off. And I was curious of like because the other ones like take their time to like rotate it. And and i I that's what I like is that it's just like this slow dreadful like turning upside down. And then that one's like kind of like jarring and quick. I was like, Oh, why didn't we speed that one up? But I guess she's real sweet. Like the that seems like really like everything's escalated by that point. She's rushing to the get there. So I guess that's why the the camera movement is also super fast.
01:24:44
Speaker
I know which one you're talking about. It's really noticeable. It's the one shot like that that really calls attention to itself because of how fast it is. It looks like they almost might have done that in post-production. They originally had it the regular speed that that those like turns happen, but then it they just like sped it up or something.
01:25:05
Speaker
Yeah or like they might have actually just flipped the frame instead of doing it naturally like you know on set because it it looks like they're actually turning the camera upside down. For the other ones it does. Yeah this one looks like it might have been a regular shot that they like flipped upside down like real quick because then it's like a cut after it flips right?
01:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, it cuts to her like almost slamming into like, I guess it's like the dumpster outside the Pizza Hut or something. Yeah. Yeah. It was just it was just jarring. And I was curious of like, what was the intention of that shot? Is it just that it's like everything's so amped up now, so it's not going to take its time that it's just like fucking fuck it. It's just going to turn real quick. It's like we do this. You get it. Yeah. you This is our thing upside down. It's there now, you know One of the times it didn't go fully upside down It was just like a 90 degree instead of like a full like 180 and I like that I that was jarring in a good in a cool way because it was like you're Expecting it to do the full rotation and then it kind of just stops on its side. I'm like, oh shit.
01:26:19
Speaker
They do that a couple times in the first one, too. And it makes it, yeah, it makes the world feel broken a little bit. it Like an eerie feeling. You can't even routinely expect the 180 upside down because you're like, we're not going to even do that every time. Sometimes we're fucking with that.
01:26:36
Speaker
Yeah. um I did wanna ask you, cause I, the second viewing that I saw with you, I came in a little late, so I didn't get to see your reaction to the dumbbell, or it's not a dumbbell, but like the workout, like he'll- The weight thing that he smashes his face in, it's- How did you feel about that? Like the ah grossness of that and like the jaw, like, how are you gonna talk about?
01:27:04
Speaker
it was gnarly because like it's showing you straight on and it cuts to it'll she's from her POV watching him slam into his face and then it'll go it pushes into a close-up to show you after each smash like the the buildup of the damage and like it's really really selling how fucked I mean yeah I think you have to show it that way because that's like when she's being haunted by the the vision of it It's like yeah, that's gonna be fucking see even if mine is supernatural shit That's just gonna like be seared into your brain like it's hard to think about it's seared into my brain
01:27:42
Speaker
And the fact that a lot of horror recently having self-mutilation specifically of the face, long legs, talk to me. This one might be because talk to me in long legs is someone like sitting and then slamming down into a table. There's something almost more upsetting about the standing raising because that's like a heavy weight, you know, and it's like, yeah, you're like the force with like, wow, you really want to do this. You're just like fucking slamming this thing into you.
01:28:15
Speaker
Yeah. Cause I feel like your body would almost make yourself stop. It would stop yourself from having the full impact, but also like her, oh, my phone started talking to me. Um, also like for her, if I'm in her position, the first hit before he even shows what his face looks like, I'm out that door. Right. I'm.
01:28:39
Speaker
I don't know what I'm seeing right now, but I'm like, okay, first this guy greeted me with a katana. Now he's fucking smashing his face in it. is Even if he survives this, he's going to look like the fucking joker. I just maybe should not be here. Yeah.
01:28:55
Speaker
But i I've come to become okay with characters in horror movies not always doing the smartest thing or not always doing what I would do.
01:29:07
Speaker
ah i because especially in that situation I mean, I can't confidently say like, I would be able to snap out of it and know and do the the right like, especially if you're saying something that fucked up. Getting frozen is like a very reasonable and realistic response. like well And even so like that there is a moment in the movie that both of you and I like were commenting on but um where she doesn't take her bloody gown off when she's in the hospital and just puts on the hoodie and ah with the bloody gown still hanging out from underneath it and that's kind of like you know what gets her caught up in a bunch of shit
01:29:48
Speaker
And you know it's easy it's really easy to sit there and be like what take it off what why don't why would you take it off go look for a new gown or something like that. But then i started thinking especially watching it this time around have you ever had a friend or have you ever done something kind of like dumb or made a mistake and someone has been there and just been like.
01:30:10
Speaker
why didn't you do it this way or like without it seems like they didn't even put any like time or effort they just immediately have a different way that you could have done it that would have been better and you're just like i i didn't fucking think of it in the moment you know and i was just like you know i'm the person who is telling myself why didn't you do it this way yeah and also kind contextually you have to remember I mean there's no counter telling us which day she's on but that whole week she hasn't had like an actual night's sleep right because like and she's losing time and stuff every time she thinks she's going to sleep she has some like waking nightmare with the
01:30:49
Speaker
demon fucking with her. So like if i don't get one if I have one bad night of sleep, I'm pretty disoriented and fucked up and like probably not making the best decisions in terms of like my ability to cognitively. and that's And that's just dealing with low grade, everyday stakes of stuff, like not even life and death. like You just got framed for murder by a demon. And now you have to escape like that level of stressful decision making. I don't have to do. And I would be like probably fucking it up if I had one off night of sleep. She's had a whole week of just nonstop being tortured and just, yeah, hasn't really slept at all. So like, so give her a break, guys, even though it was criticism I was addressing that I had said, give her a break.
01:31:37
Speaker
I said it too, I was like, you dumb bitch. Give her a break, guys. Leave Sky Riley alone, okay? Yeah, leave her alone. um Any other parts of the movie you want to touch on? I think I've covered everything.
01:31:56
Speaker
I mean, we've really covered it all. I just really want to hammer home how cool that ending is. And it really makes me excited for because the first one you can watch on its own. It has a really nasty ending, but it's not like I'm coming out of there like, man, can't wait to see Smile 2. But like this one is like such a like clear tee up for like a larger scale sequel that I'm like, well, I need to see what that looks like now.
01:32:25
Speaker
I'm really excited. I hope it picks up right where this one left off and we're just, I want to know like what happens next with all of these people. but You know, I know we see a little bit of a time jump. I kind of hope we don't get a time jump, at least not at first, you know, maybe like have a little intro, like 10 minutes of like what it looks like when this first thing first starts infecting these people, but it's ah just give me something.
01:32:55
Speaker
Like if you're cutting between like several people at the concert and like you can even montage through their week of you so show them subsequently like seeing more and more fucked up stuff. And then you could do like even some cool like split screen stuff where you show it happening simultaneously for these people freaking out and stuff. And that would be there were fucking kids at that show. so like everyone there within a week is gonna kill themselves and And then it's just gonna keep spreading like that's crazy, and I want to see it
01:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, there's just no way to stop this, which at no point in the movie did I really think they were going to successfully stop it. One, because I know how movies work and I was just like. This is you just you see it coming when you see the trailer, you're like, this is this is the logical end that I would like to see, you know, if we're going to set up a third movie. But I like I just.
01:33:58
Speaker
I buy into the hopelessness of these movies where I'm like, these people are just fucked when they have this. And I don't think that's a criticism, but I like, I kind of, you know, it's again, I saw smile one, I was looking for it. I'm like, I want something relentless and these are relentless. It's like, yeah, these people get it. And right when they get, I'm like, well, they're fucked.
01:34:20
Speaker
that's that's just what happened this person is fucked now this is just the worst outcome ah anybody could have is you can smile dan you can fight it all you want you it maybe even gives you like I never thought she'd overcome it but there was part of me that wanted that ending Pizza Hut thing to be real just to see how it wouldn't work. I was like, okay, so she's going to die and he'll get revive she'll get revived, but then I don't know, does it pass to him or something goes wrong here? And I wasn't even considering the obvious of like, oh, none of this is even happening. I wasn't even thinking of that. I was thinking of other ways it would go wrong within
01:34:59
Speaker
that reality of that moment of something like, oh, the cops will bust in and she won't get revived or so something something's going to get fucked up here. and That the setup to it is so is also so eerie, unlike all the like literally every other vision in these movies. We see the point where it turns and the person that it's disguising itself as smiles at her.
01:35:21
Speaker
We don't see that with Morris. He just leaves the freezer and like kind of just descends into darkness and she's in this freezer alone until she has the vision of the her in the accident. And that's like the fine like that's like that's how it confronts her. But like it's kind of is almost more unsettling that we never see Morris turn and do the smile that he just leaves her alone there. Like that's that's like really unsettling the way he just leaves her there. It's way more underhanded, too. It's like, damn, you really pulled one over on her. You fucking got her. He didn't even need the reveal for this one. Right. he did This is so elaborate just to build up hope for her that you can then crush that you've like made this whole scenario. And it's and it's like, damn.
01:36:14
Speaker
fucking god god yeah there was a part i like even though I didn't think they're it would they could beat it when she injected herself I almost did by the monsters performance of like it it was like almost going like no when she was like gonna die and I was like ha it got they didn't expect her to do that I know. I'm so dumb. I buy into these fucking movies, too. Maybe it's because I'm trying not. I don't want to get ahead of it. I want to be there. But I was like, when she did that, I was like, that's fucking dumb. Like this. Fuck you. And like this step. But I was like, that's when I remembered I was like the first one had a fake out. I thought it was fucking dumb, too. And then it was revealed as a fake out. And I'm like, good, I think he wants you to think
01:37:01
Speaker
This is dumb. And then they're like, don't worry. That's not how it ends. that It's not going to be heroic. There's no hurrah. She's still fucked. Don't worry. Like it's like the i in the first one I feel like I saw coming quicker. italy like I wasn't like immediately clocking it as fake, but it kept going for so long that I was like,
01:37:23
Speaker
This isn't the ending to the movie. i I mean, yeah, it's like I don't know what the smallest formula. mean Yeah, I was like, get out of here. Yeah, you're not you're not ending it this way. This make this doesn't make sense.
01:37:37
Speaker
if you didn't see the for If I didn't know that there was a possibility of a fakeout, I wouldn't have had a moment where I was like, oh yeah, they're probably doing the fakeout. I bought into it so much that when she is running through the hospital with the gun, I was like, oh, we're not going to see her perform the concert and spread it to everybody. I guess the movie isn't going to do that because I was like,
01:38:02
Speaker
I don't think they're going to let her on stage after murdering her mom and running around with a gun. you know i Until they cut to her mom in the crowd at the end, I was like, so wait a minute. What what what happened in reality to get her here? And I was like, oh, OK. No one was actually dead. That makes more sense. Might be harder to get on stage if you're wanted for murder. Yeah.
01:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's just I don't know we just buy into them We're we're just we're suckers for these what i i Like you said I'm not trying to solve movies or get ahead of them like I surrender myself to the experience of it Let's the movies actively doing things to like not make me lock in I'm going to especially when something is well-made or there's good engaging performances that draw me in emotionally I'm just gonna be along for the ride like I'm not trying to like pick things apart. I mean, yeah, there'll be more things to watch out for on repeat of like, especially the initial Morris interactions of like, yeah, did any of that happen? But I'm not like look we're first watch. I'm just like, yeah, buckle up. Let's go for it. Same here. yeah You just buy into and I kind of like that. It's the same thing with like.
01:39:20
Speaker
you know, Shyamalan, I wish there wasn't like this whole like, oh, what, what twist is he going to do? Cause it does kind of get in your head a little bit, but it's like, I'm not watching a Shyamalan movie trying to get ahead of it. Like I feel like a lot of the audiences are, um, yeah and I've said this before, but it's not doing anybody any good to try to outsmart the movie you're watching. And if you are outsmarting it unintentionally, that's probably a sign of a bad movie.
01:39:50
Speaker
yeah you you should not typically you shouldn't be ahead of the movie sometimes that can be by design was like where you're supposed to kind of know more than the characters or be ahead of them like some kind of dramatic irony or something but like most of the time You generally don't want that in a well made movie will be good, even for like very obvious reveals like in the like it's so it's not like it's out of left field. Any of the fake outs here, it's like in hindsight, you're like, oh, yeah, duh. But like, I'm not even looking at that or like noticing it because it's it's just that that's how well made it is. Have you ever accidentally guessed the ending to a movie like the I don't know, the Prestige or something?
01:40:35
Speaker
not ah definitely not the prestige but like like something along those lines where it's like the it a lot of the movie not a lot but like the ending kind of relies on something and then you call it before it happens unintentionally like you're just sitting there and you're like is this what they're doing and then they do it there's definitely like some sci-fi movie or something I'm trying to think of some Uh, it has happened. I can't think of exact ah scenarios. I mean, this is a bad movie, so it's probably not the best because I feel like you can see a twist coming and it can still be good ah if the rest of everything else is good. But for this movie specifically in Don't Worry Darling, by the time it gets spoilers for Don't Worry Darling, for everyone who was waiting to see that.
01:41:25
Speaker
um Yeah, when you find out that they're in the Matrix, when they're in the Matrix for misogynists, that it's like ah I was like, yeah, well that there weren't a lot of other options it could be, but this is also not a good twist.
01:41:43
Speaker
because Some stuff just doesn't make sense even with that knowledge There's like all the random earthquakes that keep happening earlier in the movie You're like so wait even the reality of this is a simulation What's causing that like there's like a lot of weird things that are just not explained you're like am I supposed supposed to be like I don't know it's just a glitch in the matrix and it's like I don't know if you guys are in that reveal and then and then the movies just Doesn't have a good ending. I kind of didn't hate the like first kind of hour of of Don't Worry Darling. Like I thought there were some, I mean, it looks good. It's a good looking movie. It's got a good cast. But ah yeah, that it really loses me by the end, especially like that twist is not executed well. There was something about Don't Worry Darling I liked. I don't know what it was. It's nothing where I don't know if I'll rewatch it anytime soon. But it was one of those where I was like, walked out of the theater and I was like,
01:42:44
Speaker
Not the awful train wreck disaster I thought it was going to be. I like enjoyed the ride I went on. It wasn't that great, it wasn't that terrible.
01:42:55
Speaker
um Enjoyed my experience, but don't worry, darling. I didn't worry. You didn't find me worrying, darling. i didn't I mean, I didn't come out of it with like any beef of with like Olivia Wilde of like, well, she should be put in director's jail and I just wish there was Shia LaBeouf. I was just like, why is he not all over this thing? Why is he not performing oral sex on Florence Pugh?
01:43:23
Speaker
Is it kind of a lose-lose either way? Because you either have Shia LaBeouf or you have, I think Harry Styles is all right in in that. but ah But I was like, neither of those options are good actors, you know? They should have hired the guy from Megalopolis who played Adam Driver's cousin. I think that was Shia LaBeouf. Oh, fuck. Never mind. He would have been good.
01:43:52
Speaker
It should have been Andrew Garfield. It could have been a prequel for the movie they're doing now together. Hmm. You know, like the movies used to be when there was like a good leading couple. It was like they're going to do at least like five movies together. I feel like the last time we got that was Gosling and Emma Stone did like three La La Land Gangster Squad and Stupid Crazy Love. Are those the three they do? Stupid Love.
01:44:21
Speaker
yeah ah Yeah And they should have kept going with that they should have just kept They should still be making movies together because they're a good pairing like we we should bring we need that energy again We're like, oh these these two people are and I'm not just talking about romantic pairings. I'm like any like duo with great chemistry just fucking seize at that. like There should have been 10 movies that Russell Crowe and Gosling did. Another Gosling pairing. Russell Crowe and Gosling should have done 10 movies together after Nice Guys. I don't even mean Nice Guys sequels, although I would watch those in a heartbeat too. Gosling should be in Craven the Hunter is what you're saying. Yes.
01:45:03
Speaker
Yeah. I do want to call it on mic now. We talked about this, um, before we recorded, but we live in time. I feel like this is going to fucking smash at the box office, this Florence Pugh, Andrew Garfield thing. So maybe we'll see a bunch more of them together. The Garfield Pugh cinematic universe.
01:45:27
Speaker
Maybe they'll fold him into, since everyone else and their mom is in Dune anyway, like he'll just be in the next Dune, Garfield. Maybe he'll be in ah the Thunderbolts. As Spider-Man. I like how those Sony movies keep trying to be part of the MCU. And they're like, yeah, yeah, we're we're in this universe. And then MCU movies are like,
01:45:53
Speaker
Mm, I don't know. I think Spider-Man is going to be in Venom, The Last Stand. It's finally going to happen. We're going to see it. It's going to be Tom Hollands and Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man. Everybody was right. It's both Spider-Mans. There is a rumor and there's so many bullshit fake things for like pretty much every comic book movie. ah But it keeps getting circulated that like the Venom will be setting up the, he's not even going to be the villain of Venom 3, but in the comics there's like a symbiote god that every symbiote comes from. It's this like ancient guy named Knoll who sits on like a black throne. Yeah, the creators of him are suing Sony because they're like, we're not getting paid for you using our character we created.
01:46:48
Speaker
feel like that happens every so either they're not getting paid or they're getting like the artist or original creator or the like main person in charge of a run that they're adapting is like oh you guys were making a show or movie out of this I didn't know because you weren't paying me for that yeah I feel like the guy who did I forget the run of... of ah Who's the arrow man? Hawkeye. There's like a popular Hawkeye like run by Matt Fraction, I believe. that like And then like when that show was airing, he was like, oh, you guys... Because in the credits, there's like these cool animated credits and they're straight up using his art style. And he's like, I did not know that you guys were doing that because I didn't get paid for that.
01:47:33
Speaker
Yeah. And like these creators, I don't think they've, I think the deal was they found out when they saw the trailer, they're like, ah you're using our character and he's played by like fucking Tom Hardy or somebody. I don't know who's playing him, but it's like a notable actor, I think. Have they said who's playing? No, I don't even know. I like thought they an announced Oscar Isaac. He's sure get him in another suit because he's he's moon knight. He's in a spider verse. Just have him be a venom villain. Who cares?
01:48:04
Speaker
um venm three no Wait, it's not confirmed but the leading rumor is it's Norman Reedus is null.
01:48:14
Speaker
Oh yeah, that is what I saw. Man, I hope he rides his motorcycle and that's fun. I mean it's e it's an easy thing because he won't cut his hair for any role and this character's drawn with really long hair. I like that I said it was Tom Hardy playing Noel, but he's playing fucking Venom.
01:48:32
Speaker
ah I mean, he's already playing two characters, so like why not just throw in a third? I'm sure yeah if you pitched it to him, he's so game for anything in those dumb movies, he'd be like, sure, yeah, I'll be null. Put me on a throne. I don't care. Craven, on the other hand, is going to win Best Picture, I think. Craven calling it, yeah, will be the best film of 2024. I mean, for me,
01:48:57
Speaker
It doesn't have a ton of competition for best superhero movie other than Falia do. and Like it need to see how good the musical numbers in Craven are and that's what it will come down to really. were Were you about to say that Venom and that the new one he's going to be forming a team?
01:49:18
Speaker
No, the rumor is that Knoll will be the villain of the the next Spider-Man, and it's going to be another multiverse thing, like the other Spider-Men will show up to team up to fight Knoll. And it's like, Knoll's not even a Spider-Man villain.
01:49:35
Speaker
He's like he only appears in bet. Oh, there's like a crossover venom thing where like spider-man was there but it's not like this is like ah He was there i yeah that he participated. He was there. That's how Marvel crossovers are. It's like yeah There's an X-Men there in the corner, but they're not they're not an X this guy's not an X-Men villain. But yeah, that's i I just don't care about the MCU at this point, but if anything, I am kind of willing to believe because that sounds like the most creatively bankrupt thing they can do. And like, that's probably where these movies are trending anyway. Like after that Robert Downey Jr. Doom casting, I'm like, whatever the dumbest thing that you say will happen in these movies, that's probably what they're going to do. So like maybe that's true. And now that they're making more money than ah the Marvel movies,
01:50:30
Speaker
It's it's definitely believable from the standpoint of it seems like we're never going at least in a movie form never going back to street level spider-man even though that was homecoming his ah ah His first Tom Holland's first spider-man was all about and that movie ends where he's like no I'm not joining the Avengers someone needs to look out for the smaller stuff the next movie Avengers like alright gear up you're an Avenger you're going to space and then he's never gone back to like Any street level stuff even though the street level in Europe a little bit
01:51:05
Speaker
I think Mysterio is beyond the street level. There were streets, water streets, streets of water. You had to take a boat to get to where you needed to get, but there's still streets. Are you discriminating? No, I just mean once he leaves New York, he's no longer a neighborhood Spider-Man. It's already escalated beyond his neighborhood. So he's not, it's not, you've already escalated beyond that scale. And Mysterio's doing like,
01:51:32
Speaker
Not world ending shit, but he's creating an Avengers level threat. So like it's, that's still pretty high. I want, I want lower stakes for Spider-Man. He does um straight up say like he wants to be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. So yeah, it doesn't really happen. I think he says that to Tony Stark.
01:51:54
Speaker
Yeah, and and it's like it now he's just the multiverse character even in live-action like now so it's like we made Like yeah, will we ever get a smaller scale spider-man thing where it's just him? Like just have him go against fucking kingpin hammerhead or tombstone like one of the mobster villains like just do something like like kind of like I mean, you could still escalate the emotional stakes of that. Like, well, like you just. Yeah, they' we're never going to get something like that in a movie. I don't think anytime soon. Yeah. Anyway, that's our Spider-Man podcast. You heard the rate review. Subscribe. I forgot we were talking. Smile verse. But Spider-Man is going to come through a portal and we ah smile three. We always bring it back to Marvel. um Well, I want to be part of the MCU. Yeah.
01:52:48
Speaker
And yeah, you wanna round us out, get us closed out, smile. I give it a four out of five. Yeah, I think I'm there. I'm at a four, maybe.
01:52:59
Speaker
But I'm open to the potential of liking it even more on rewatches. I really like these movies and I think based on the trajectory, three will deliver. It seems likely that he maybe has something in mind, especially ending it like this. I was like, man, I really want to see. And you could just keep doing it. I guess if it spreads the whole world, there is a limit to how many more of these you could, we'll just end, everyone in the world kills themselves. That should be the end of Smile, Smile 3. It's passed to like the last human and then they kill themselves. I like your optimism on liking Smile 2 more on a rewatch. I'm going to meet you in the opposite direction. I'm open to the idea of hating this movie more on a rewatch.
01:53:52
Speaker
you know I'm gonna see how it goes feeling. I'm gonna be open to hating movies on rewatches now, going and hoping for less. That's how I'm gonna rewatch Beetlejuice too. Everyone wants me to give that another chance. I'm like, no, I'm going in with my knives out. Those people that wanted you to give another, fuck them, dude. Fuck those people. I've talked to more reasonable people in my life who are like, yeah, it kind of sucked. Mercedes over on ah you know the other pod, she was not a fan of Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. I was like, thank God.
01:54:27
Speaker
you know And even the people who, I know a lot of people who like had a fun time, but they're not like refuting any of my quibbles or points with, they're like, yeah, but anyway, I had a lot of fun. you know like that It just goes back to that. i mean i'm I guess I'm open to the idea that I could have, especially for a comedy, like if I was watching it with other people that were laughing and having a good time, just by virtue of that, I would probably enjoy myself more. Because we we didn't even like the movie. We were laughing more than like anyone else in our theater for Beetlejuice. Especially the Justin Thoreau scene. It was like crickets during that. I feel like the only stuff they laughed at was the Catherine O'Hara stuff.
01:55:13
Speaker
No, people just aren't in touch like we are. They just got to get in touch with their roots. They don't get it. They don't get it. They got to grow up. Mm hmm. And that's really. Oh, yeah, they do got to grow up, grow the fuck up listeners. If you don't like smile, grow up.
01:55:32
Speaker
Yeah, grow the fuck up and be a big boy. I will say that to people, you know, like I'm not usually trying to stir shit online. ah But if I see someone being hyperbolic about such and such as the worst horror movie.
01:55:45
Speaker
ever like i I think someone said that to like smile that they like hated it. I was like, I think I did tell him, I was like, grow up. It's not that serious. like Calm down. Yeah, you know it wouldn't be that bad if you weren't being a real bitch about it. you know you Yeah, you could literally just be like, that wasn't for me. And then yeah you and then we you move on to the next thing. It's like, yeah, don't don't be a baby.
01:56:12
Speaker
but good Don't be a baby. Aw, you little baby. Aw. You needed no no nap, a Quinky Widow baby in like the movie. Do you want your bottle?
01:56:30
Speaker
ah
01:56:33
Speaker
That's what I think of everyone who doesn't like this movie. Remember to rate, review us five stars, especially if you're a little baby.
01:56:50
Speaker
um We're going to get hate mail and it's just going to show up as like, goo goo, ga ga. I'm going to ch go check the email and it's going to be someone saying, goo goo goo goo.
01:57:03
Speaker
Yeah, any review that's not five stars, we're gonna read it and she can be like, goo goo gaga. Just over and over, goo goo goo goo. That was like c suckling on a bottle sound. No, that was good. I was like, wow, that's like too good.
01:57:23
Speaker
ah People probably hated that. um Everyone shut that off by now. At least it's the end of the episode. They'll miss our plugs, but, you know. I mean, they'll see them anyway, so... You can't, like the Smile Monster, you can't escape it. You're gonna see our our other socials and plugs. Mm-hmm. Just like my trauma, can't escape it.
01:57:49
Speaker
ah Yeah, and that's... i I don't even know what joke I was going to make off of that, but I don't know. These movies are good, man. I like them. I'm excited to see more. And I think we were listing this along with, like, of course, we're not a baby. So that's what we're establishing right now. He likes it and he's not a baby. Yeah, exactly. I'm a big boy now.
01:58:15
Speaker
ah But like, like we were saying after Terrifiers, like, yeah, this is like a new horror franchise. Like someone, this is someone's idea that they started and they get their sequels now, but it's like this was like born out of someone's idea that they developed and then made.
01:58:33
Speaker
And it's not like this is like ah a reboot of a thing or trying. I mean, he is. ah I didn't see it on his IMDB, but it was announced that Parker Finn is doing a ah remake of 1981, the Sam Neill possession ah from 1981 with with Robert Pants. And so that would be.
01:58:52
Speaker
That is an excellent, a crazy, intense movie. So I'm very interested to see what he does with that. But after that, I was like, yeah, it seems like if he has like though the space or kind blank check to just do whatever he wants, I i want to see what he's what he's got.
01:59:11
Speaker
I agree. um I'm looking on his letterbox. I thought I saw that ah the Possession movie was on there, but I mean, um oh, it is. It's still on his letterbox. It's not on IMDB for some reason. They have crazy stuff that's already been canceled on the upcoming movies for a lot of pages. So it's it's weird that they don't have that one. Well, get your shit together IMDB. What are you doing? Hire Kevin Smith again.
01:59:37
Speaker
um But yeah, I really dig this movie. I'm here for number three. I'm ready for it. Ready to see what how it takes. him I'll be there opening weekend for sure. Me too. um You got any plugs?
01:59:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you can follow the show's Twitter at guysgotjuice, and then there's my personal Twitter at Dougernaut underscore two. ah I keep falling off and then trying to come back on my letterbox. I mean, I was kind of sick this week, so I think I fell behind on that. But I do have some things I've been watching I want to log. So check me out on the Dougernaut. That's my page there. I might.
02:00:20
Speaker
even sign up for Serialized. I don't know if you know that there's like a ah letterbox for TV because I've been watching a lot of TV. I'm like, what if I log TV? ah ah But that almost sounds more daunting because I don't... Is it just per show? Like I can just say I watch the show or it's like, i have I'm going to log each episode. That kind of sounds like a lot. So i don't I don't know if I'm for sure doing that, but I might make a... Maybe I'll just make one and do lists like I do on on Letterbox or something.
02:00:49
Speaker
like shows that have a beach, I don't know. There's just something dumb like that. And hell yeah, you said that's like a letterboxed for TV. Yeah, it's called serialized, but without the ED, it's just like a D after the Z and serialized. OK, kind of like letterboxed. Yeah, exactly like that. They're like, hey, what if we misspelled a thing to?
02:01:14
Speaker
Yeah. Nice. um I might have to get on that if I <unk> out just, you know, keep track of my TV watching a bit more. But um ah you can follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Ewers. Coming up soon, I don't know when in relation to this podcast.
02:01:32
Speaker
I should be having a podcast starting with ah my friend Mercedes. It's going to be called Children of the Core. I almost said the actual name, Children of the Gore. um it's a We're basically going to be going through and watching old horror movies, mostly older horror movies ah that One or the other hasn't seen we're starting with psycho our next movie is misery one that I haven't seen and then I think our third one is supposed to be green room a movie Mercedes hasn't seen so we're gonna just be swapping back and forth and just recording like hour-long episodes talking about what we thought about the horror movies that we're picking for each other and So, um, might tackle a few franchises in there. I haven't seen like most of the child's play, but we'll see. It's, we're still kind of figuring it out. And then, um, I don't think I did our Instagram plug. You can follow us on Instagram at these guys got juice pod. And, uh, yeah, I think that's it for me. I'm Nick Ewers. I'm Doug Davenport. And we're these guys got juice. Have a good night. Bye.
02:02:55
Speaker
where these guys got juice. Oh, wait, no. ah Well, let's do our full intro normally, because I don't know if I'll have the new intro done in time for Smile 2. I'm sorry. I'm so tired now of it. OK, yeah, yeah. No, it's cool.
02:03:13
Speaker
I might keep that for that. Yeah, no. Yeah, this this all keep it in double it. All right. I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're these guys got juice.
02:03:31
Speaker
I forgot my phone screen turned off so I didn't have anything to but look at.
02:03:41
Speaker
Did you see me look? and Yeah. What did we watch? what it What's a movie? I've never seen any movie. Ever. Oh man. Sorry. Sol stays. Okay, from the top. One more.