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Conclave
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Today on These Guys Got Juice, the guys are reviewing Conclave! Directed by Edward Berger, starring Ralph Fiennes!
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Transcript
Introduction and Mistaken Movie Title
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm Doug Damport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're These Guys Got Juiced. And we saw Conclave. Who can make the sun Something, something, something in a miracle or two. ah candy man cany man and The The Candyman can cause he mixes that with love. It makes the world taste good.
Vatican Horror Movie Imaginations
00:00:45
Speaker
Ooh. RIP Tony Todd.
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, I almost said so for the listeners, they didn't hear what happened before. um I almost said and we saw Candyman because we were just talking about Candyman before we started doing the intro. I like Conclave Candyman. It was right there. i am Can you imagine if this turned into Not even just a Canyon Man movie, but like a real horror movie, like halfway through. Like it's just like Vatican politics and they're like voting on Pope. And then there's like, people just start getting killed and shit is like, what the fuck? They stand in front of the mirror and they're like, John Paul the second. John Paul the second. John Paul the second. Killer Pope. Sounds good. Killer Pope hasn't been done. i No one has dared do it. Killer Pope's done, done, done, done, done.
00:01:40
Speaker
Cause I wonder if like, I feel like was this like a controversial movie to get me, I mean, we'll talk about specifics. Yeah.
Vatican's Public Image and Alien Speculations
00:01:51
Speaker
But like, cause like the, is the Vatican these days, are they concerned with it's, you know, like how some religions or things are like super litigious, like, like Scientology, like you gotta be really careful, like what, what you say about them. The Vatican, they're like, we're trying to like seem like we're cool right now. They're like, we,
00:02:10
Speaker
Aliens would be cool, right, guys? Like, we think aliens would be cool if they were real. You know, the Bible doesn't say they're not real. Yeah, they're trying really hard to... The book always comes out, he's like, I talked to God today. God is like saying maybe he likes the gays, you know? He's like thinking like they can use our bathrooms, maybe, you know? And then he'll like come out with a skateboard and stuff. They're like, I'm a cool person. Whoa, yeah. Whoa. Radical. Yeah.
00:02:38
Speaker
The Catholic Church seems like, yeah, they're trying to like get on everybody's good side. They're trying to be like in favor, which is kind of like going to this. Is there some controversy that they had recently that like they need to like have good PR? The Catholic Church, not my Catholic Church. I don't think they've like ever done anything wrong to my recollection. Only good PR coming out of the Catholic Church. Have you seen the Pope's Exorcist?
00:03:04
Speaker
um Russell Crowe. I saw a little bit of it. i Yeah, not the full thing. It should tie into this movie. I did see Exorcist Believer. Okay, I think that's probably worse. but I haven't seen Believer, but Pope's Exorcist is probably better. Spoiler for Pope's Exorcist, there's a reveal towards the end that like they find out that like a cardinal or someone got possessed by a demon during like the Inquisition. Basically, demons had infiltrated the Catholic Church in like the 1300s or 1400s, and then Russell Crowe was like, everything that happened after this is the work of Satan.
Catholic Church in Movies
00:03:42
Speaker
right off every bad thing the church has done since then is being like demonic influence. And it it'd be like, yeah, that explain. Oh my God, we got to get Mark Ruffalo on the phone because this explains all all the the like child sex abuse stuff. if you I like that crossover with Spotify or Spotify. Jesus, good spotlight. Ruffalo should have been in this too. Yeah. um Have you seen the other Russell Crowe Exorcist movie? I think it's just called The Exorcism. I've not seen that one yet. yeah my mission else discovered It sounds kind of entertaining. i'm Look, I'm down to see anything Russell Crowe does, especially now. like i um Like he was always a good actor, but he's
00:04:29
Speaker
What he does on screen with his energy in his presence now is just so Compelling to me like that. He's like so comfortable in real act He's kind of like better than he's ever been he's about being craven, right? Oh, I cannot fucking wait That's gonna be the movie of the year Craven is gonna be I'm gonna be like on the front lines of like craven of like You know how people are are like trying to prop up those annoying Venom movies? I'm going to be like that, but for crazy. Yeah, we got it. Sony, let us like go to like some kind of press screening or some kind of world premiere. We got a pretty big audience. I don't want to toot our horn a little bit. But we can like sell this movie. We will sell out. We will. Oh, absolutely. yeah
00:05:20
Speaker
Yeah, no, no. We will take the payola and give this movie good reviews. A movie that I was probably already going to be on the side of. Like, I will definitely sell out. Yeah, we will. We will champion it. Yeah. So, Sony, hit us up. Anyway, this is our Conclave episode. But yeah, Craven. um Way better than Conclave. Craven should be in Conclave, maybe.
00:05:44
Speaker
Craven should be in every movie. I think so. When think we're watching movies, we should be asking where Craven is. and And like older movies before the character even existed. Like if I'm what if like, you know, it's Christmas time. Some people probably going to have on It's a Wonderful Life or something, some bullshit like that. But it's like, what if Craven was in there? You know, kind of hoping because Craven comes out before Nosferatu. I'm kind of hoping there's a Christmas movie. That's why they delayed it.
00:06:12
Speaker
Craven. yeah Oh, it has to be. But I'm hoping that Craven crosses over into Nosferatu in some way. i Like we see like photos from like years ago, and it's like, wait, Craven's been around like this whole time. And it's like photos with him and oh feratu old old Nosse. It's funny that that's the vampire that it would tie into, not the
Excitement for Movie 'Craven'
00:06:37
Speaker
moreph in their own They just ignore that. They're like, I don't give a shit about that guy, but let's talk about Nosferatu. Yeah. And then like, so Aaron Taylor Johnson, is he a Nosferatu?
00:06:51
Speaker
No, I don't think so. You should be. What are you doing, Robert Eikers? Well, maybe they're hiding it, keeping it a secret. Yeah. i'm thinking I was thinking Anya Taylor-Joy, that's why Aaron Taylor-Johnson came to mind. They're the same person. Very similar sounding names, very similar structured names. I've never seen them both in the same room. Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Nosferatu, then at the very end, they're going to take a picture together and you're going to be like, that's the Craven seen Yeah. Anyway, back to Conclave. Conclave. I know I said it's I made a joke about it. Socks are cravings like way better than I mean, I'm just kidding. Conclave fucking rules. You guys should go see it. I'll just say that right off the bat. This rips. If you are the kind of like to me, if someone so sells a movie of like
00:07:38
Speaker
yeah it's kind of like a Vatican political thriller and it's like mostly people talking and debating things that gets me excited if you start to like zone out of me just saying that and you're like I don't know that doesn't sound like my kind of thing still go see this because it's like it's extremely watchable like it it does Even if if like that does not your like style of like movie, it's so compelling. like It makes subject matter that should probably on paper sound kind of dry. like me like it's It feels like the stakes could not be higher. You're like, they bet they can't fuck this up. They better pick the right Pope.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah. So I've seen it twice already. And the first time I saw it, I wasn't, I didn't see all quiet on the Western front. I still haven't seen that. It was just too quiet for me. Um, and I don't know, he's loud. Yeah. I don't really like enjoy the West that much either. I have faced the East most of the time. It's a, you know, and personal choice. So all quiet on the Western front. I skipped that one, but, uh, what's it called? Um, this movie.
Thrilling Vatican Politics in 'Conclave'
00:08:42
Speaker
I yeah wasn't too hyped about it. I was just kind of looking for something to see and there was nothing really lining up. but and I was like so convinced I was going to fall asleep. I'm like a priest election movie or something. like yeah What is this? and I don't know what I was thinking because like almost like immediately I was sucked in. I was super tired, but I stayed awake the entire movie just locked in fucking loving it didn't give it a five star rating at first we'll get into that a little later but then the second time seeing it with you I don't mean to like take up all this like talking spot but like it was a blast like seeing it together I was like this movie is like so fun with like other people we have like yeah ah commentary going on behind a A little bit of commentary. Behind and to the side of us, we had people having like reactions at different moments, which was very interesting. I kind of wish I had seen it. ah I love this movie to be clear, but like if I had seen it like a more ah traditionally packed theater, like that could have been ah something like really interesting and I'd be interested to see like
00:09:51
Speaker
does this play like like almost like a blockbuster if you have a packed crowd of like because there it is like i said like on paper like you're like it sounds kind of dry like it's a papal uh kind of is it a like calling it even calling it a thriller almost seems like i'm putting too much mustard on it because it's about this election. And there are question marks that of like things that he's like ray like Ray finds kind of at certain points basically becomes like a cardinal detective. Like he's like he's like kind of looking into certain people and stuff. But like the movie doesn't play like that. It's like mostly about this election. But it still is so fucking compelling. It plays. And maybe I'm a little wrong. It's reminiscent of like
00:10:38
Speaker
Oppenheimer and the way that kind of plays a little bit and I was also think my other reference was It's like different subject matter but I also thought of like how all the presents men are like ah investigative journalism movie is like that's like people talking to each other or like following leads But it's like so you're like going deeper down this rabbit hole. You're like, yeah, what are they gonna find? Yeah, like it's it's really compelling in that way. Yeah, this movie it rules it goes hard your
00:11:08
Speaker
You're with every character, too. I don't really want to like I feel like if I go into like more detail, actually, it'll it'll kind of be spoilers, but it's like. There's a good variety in ah within the cast that you're watching um and just.
00:11:27
Speaker
A good amount going on to lock into there's a lot of twists and turns like you're following like what other characters like intentions are and motives are and I don't know it's. It's hard to talk about like. The actual meat of this thing without getting into spoilers but yeah this movie yeah it goes hard.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, I I'm a huge fan of it. I because, you know, I got to the it's been out for all almost a month now, but it's like crazy. It's been out for that long. And it's like still like it just opened wider. So like if you haven't seen it yet, check is probably more theaters by you playing it. And honestly, it's getting the kind of buzz where it's like ending up on like Oscar shortlist and stuff of like I think this could get nominated for multiple things, including Best Picture like actor.
00:12:19
Speaker
Uh, probably support. I mean, there's a couple of different supporting actors, even probably supporting actress you could nominate. Um, this is the, at least for me, but this is kind of my prediction. This is the awards underdog of the year. I think we're going to get like the brutalist. And then, uh, there was something else that like just recently came out or is Oh, and Nora. Yeah. Cause there's not like a clear front runner this year, at least at this point, like how you can part two was in talks earlier this year. I feel like that's going to drop off.
00:12:49
Speaker
it it will probably get nominated but I don't think it's gonna like take stuff home really other than the technical awards like Like last year kind of did feel like by the end of the summer, we're like, oh, Oppenheimer's like kind of like taken this, right? like it it Yeah, it just bulldozed through the year. because Even even so you know the normal ah conventional wisdom is like closer, movies closer to the end of the year are the ones that really count. They're not going to remember like summer or earlier releases, but Oppenheimer had such a big impact and just like stayed in theaters like the whole year, basically.
Political Themes in 'Conclave'
00:13:24
Speaker
that like, they're like, okay, yeah, this, this is going all the way. Uh, there's no like real front runner this year. Yeah. Like stuff like a Nora, I do want to ignore the denominator and definitely like, some get get some wins like that. I'm i'm i'm rooting for for that one. But if something like this, like Conclave goes all the way, like, that'd be cool. I'd be really down for that. And again, like if you're like, I don't care about the church, Catholic Church or like like church mystery conspiracies. I don't know if that's really this isn't like a Dan Brown, like the Da Vinci Code kind of like thing like, no, like juicy, like, yeah you know, gossipy, like
00:14:02
Speaker
I mean, jokingly, I was like, is this Mean Girls? And then it cut to a scene that was- Did I compare it to Mean Girls a couple days ago? I think you did too, also. Yeah, I forgot. I like threw out a couple of movies and I think I like listed Mean Girls in that, like, jokingly, but then there's a point in the movie where it's like, you set out loud and you were like, this is Mean Girls. Yeah. Almost like you had a realization.
00:14:25
Speaker
No, because I was like, OK, comedic exaggeration, I could get like the connection there. But then, yeah, there's like the scene that's literally like they did this in Mean Girls. Yeah. And I love that about it. Like it shows there's like a pettiness, like kind of they're like catty gossipy little bitches about all this. And like i the movie is like from either perspective if you're not a person of faith don't care about the church or if you're really faithful and uh i think everyone can get something out of this movie uh because like it's not like mocking faith or or like those bull believe and we'll get into specifics and in in spoilers i think there is like
00:15:07
Speaker
a reverence for the ideals of like what the church should be about, but it is realistic in terms of like, it's people. These are systems that are run by people who are, you know, men are fallible and have passed. They've made mistakes. People are our people. That's so like that like any government or system that's run by people is going to have flaws like that because people are flawed and like the movie doesn't shy away from like being open about that. So it's not going to like sugarcoat over like that this is like some perfectly run thing. And like it's very blunt about like how prag openly pragmatic some of the people are being about, like well, I don't even know that I really believe in this guy, but like you know like we he's our like best option to defeat this other guy. And you know and so like it's a lot of discussions like that.
00:15:56
Speaker
And Stanley Tucci's character calls like Ralph Einer, he says, like don't be so naive about certain things. And even like references like, no, this this is a war. like We're fighting right here. like This is a battle. like We have we're picking sides in this you know not to give away too much detail but no he's very clear like you have to take a side and when he. and Says that in this movie i did kind of think about you know the election that we just had oh and absolutely no other movies that have come out this year like civil war that are movies that kind of don't take.
00:16:34
Speaker
a definitive stance that I wish did take, whether it's in one direction or the other. I wish it would be more interesting or compelling if it took kind of like a side, not to make this a civil war thing. No, yeah, I mean, I have but i have my own thoughts on on that. move I mean, I like I i i want to do a rewatch now that it's post-election just to kind of see how it
Impact of 'Civil War' Movie
00:16:55
Speaker
plays. That would be, I mean,
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It's that's that's an interesting movie that would be to talk about because I yeah, I have a person. I think that movie was miss market and probably misnamed because it's like kind of not really about American politics or even the Civil War itself. Yeah. Yeah. We both and we've we've talked about Civil War off, Mike. I think we're both in pretty like.
00:17:19
Speaker
We both not land in the same spot, but I think we both understand what's happening with that movie. Right. And I i kind of appreciate that it's not and wasn't the thing that it was selling. I think we watch it. It's also very dark, ah like, oh, like unrelentingly dark. And I saw it at a point where I like.
00:17:38
Speaker
It was a very like weird point in my life. Like I was going through a lot of change. I just like moved back home and like was starting a new job. So it was like, civil war was kind of heavy for like the point in time that I had seen it. So I think like now that my life is like calmed down a lot, I might take in civil war a bit differently and I like post-election and might hit, might be able to watch it more as a movie instead of like wanting it to be a social commentary.
00:18:04
Speaker
I'm still going to be disappointed in the airport fight when it's like the two sides of the Avengers are just kind of like running at each other. and I knew immediately what you were referencing when you said airport. yeah everyone How could a anyone forget the iconic airport battle? I remember I hated Captain America Civil War when I first saw it in theaters. That's a movie that really had to grow on me over the years. parts of it have grown on me. I've i in fact just doubled down on being more into the previous captain, especially the first one. I think ah the first Avengers actually like kind of slaps. Yeah, um yeah but... Conclave also has a big airport fight. It does. Does Conclave have any Avengers in it?
00:18:48
Speaker
No. Tucci was in Captain America, the first one. He's the scientist who gives him the super soldier serum. Good for Tucci, make that money. Tucci gang, Tucci gang, Tucci gang. He, oh my God, we're gonna talk about the Tucci. The Hulk?
00:19:03
Speaker
yes everybody Every character is memorable. You can recall every character, I think, even if you don't know them by name or like know the actor's name. If like you referenced a character in this movie, you can recall... They all have a moment that kind of defines their whole thing. Every speaking role is important and memorable. and like but yeah the The actors just embody everybody perfectly. It's like if they have real presence. Like, yeah, there are character actors I recognize, obviously, but like there's a a good chunk of like Internet, you know, because this is the conclave is like Pope or not. pope Cardinals from all around the world. And like so they have a pretty international cast. And like so some of these actors like Italian or like African actors, I'm like, I haven't seen these guys in anything, but I kind of want to see more stuff with them because the driver was the only Italian actor I recognize.
00:19:55
Speaker
It was weird that he was playing Enzo Ferrari, too. It was like, I don't think you're allowed to be here. Also, you should be dead. He was playing House of Gucci, too. He was playing both. It's crazy. He's played so many memorable Italians. Why was he not Mario? Exactly. let's I mean, that's a fucking animated movie. We can just dub him over, right? Yeah, take your hand out of that. Let's give him that international film treatment.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, exactly like have they dubbed it with their own the country's act let's just make it Adam driver now yeah I think with AI that's even easier now these guys got you stub Yeah italian anim driver yeah ah
Cast and Performances in 'Conclave'
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah, the whole cast is great. ah Even, you know, like, obviously the church, Catholic Church is a very patriarchal institution, so it's mostly men, but they don't, like, they, there's, there's some, a couple of women, well, one ah female role in particular, one of the nuns, like, actually does get some, like, good stuff to play. I didn't even recognize her at first. It's Isabella Rossellini. She, she's like the one who gave them the immortality and death becomes her.
00:21:07
Speaker
ah and Miss Blue Velvet herself. ah Yeah, I haven't seen her in anything really recent. Last thing I saw, her and she plays Alec Baldwin's ex-wife in 30 Rock and has a really funny joke of like how he got their stake of Arby's and the divorce. She's like, Jack, you know I love my big beef and cheddar. I've i'm seen i've seen her in a conclave. She's really good in this. Yeah, I've seen that she was good in a conclave.
00:21:35
Speaker
I mean it's really just like two really memorable scenes she has but I'm like based on just those two scenes I'm like she could get a supporting actress now. She catches your eye pretty quickly because there's a moment where and this isn't a spoiler but one of the priests is like blessing Emil and he shouts out ah the sisters and then she gives like a little smirk when that happens and the I don't know if it just the effect she has on the camera if she's just like a memorable looking person but from there you're like clocking her going forward like you're always clocking her when she's in the background yeah no matter what she's doing she's like up your she's got your attention now for the rest of the movie whenever she's on screen or in a scene
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. She makes the most of her screen time. Actually, and and there's specific scenes I want to call out in in spoilers.
2023: A Strong Year for Movies?
00:22:28
Speaker
Honestly, the Oppenheimer comparison is even more apt now that I'm thinking about because like there's so many. like Yeah, everyone in the cast like gets like at least a moment to do a thing. like It kind of reminds me of like when they first introduced Rami Malek in Oppenheimer, you're like, he doesn't even have any lines. He's just like in the background like holding some shit. And you're like, oh, that's they're using him just for that. And then he comes back later when he testifies and he's like slam dunks in the city. he Like there's randomly like a basketball hoop in the courtroom and he just like dunks in it. And then like everyone started applauding and elected him president in the movie. it was strange If you want to jam, and welcome to this. I am.
00:23:08
Speaker
You know, space jam, but he's Freddie Mercury. Yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
Everybody get up. Now I'm the space damn. I don't remember the lyrics. I don't remember the lyrics either. I mean, I'd watch it. Yeah. Space jam, Conclave crossover. Oh no. Space Jam Oppenheimer crossover.
00:23:31
Speaker
slash Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah, I dig it. I dig it. Yeah, I just can't recommend this movie enough. It's gonna be with my top movies. I've said multiple times how consistently, just pretty much from the beginning of the year, this has been a great year for movies, but I'm still finding like new favorites of the year at this point. I'm like, wow, damn. And there's still shit I haven't seen, like like film festival stuff that hasn't like come our way yet that I'm like looking for. I'm like, man, this this year's a really, it just makes me excited. like You could really be,
00:24:07
Speaker
a doomsday or about a lot of different things in culture of like uh where are the original ideas there's so much franchise stuff it's like no there's like still original stuff i mean this is based off of of a book so it's like not an original screenplay but it's not like ip you know it's not like that this is like the conclave franchise like is or they could serve i don't know i'd watch a sequel we'll talk about it I ah fully was gonna make an immature joke, but I decided against it so now I'm all discombobulated. But ah yeah, fucking solid movie. I'm ah i'm really hopeful about um this award season and ah just the five or 10, whatever we're gonna get, like best director, best um picture.
00:24:56
Speaker
I feel like we're going to have like a really strong lineup and I'm really hoping to see Conclave dominate or like at least like be present in every ah award category. but um Yeah, at least let's get let's get it in there for the noms. if it I think it could go even further than I would like to see that too, but anything that gets them.
00:25:15
Speaker
I'm rooting for it. Like, yeah, I haven't seen all quite on the Western front. This is my first Edward Berger film. But then I was looking before we started at his IMDB. I did not realize. And it was crazy, because I was just thinking of rewatching
Edward Berger's Influence from 'The Terror'
00:25:27
Speaker
this. like and just Just for my own pleasure, but just of random things, I was like, oh, it might be interesting to do like bonus TV thing. He did ah like three of the episodes of the first season of The Terror, which for my money is like one of the best miniseries ever. like Just like one of my favorite seasons of TV. It's like based off of a ah book about this real lost voyage from like the 1870s, I think. they got They were looking for like the Northwest Passage and they got stranded in the ice. The real story is most people assume like they got stuck in the ice and then they probably like starved, ran out of rations or whatever.
00:26:04
Speaker
but the show is ah in the book that it's based off is like okay well if they got stuck in the ice and then there was like a weird supernatural thing it's like historical horror kind of it's like really cool and he did like the first like three episodes of of that and i now i really want to go back and watch that uh so yeah shout out the terror hell yeah that sounds awesome um wanna happen to spoilers yeah let's do it
00:26:58
Speaker
and we're back we're back normally I make some kind of like joke about the spoiler bumper or like are just like we'll be singing a random song but I just want to like start off like shouting out and I'm definitely gonna butcher this name so I was so serious it sounded like you're about to start an in memoriam segment or something
00:27:25
Speaker
whatever kind of music they play in those segments. ah Volker, Volker Bertleman is how I'm going to best pronounce that. He did the score for Conclave and he also did this week's spoiler bumper.
00:27:45
Speaker
That's why I'm so seriously at introducing you. Like, you did a great job. ah But no, the score for this movie fucks.
Score and Editing in 'Conclave'
00:27:53
Speaker
Like, I'm gonna be listening to, like, there's, uh, I was saying this has been a great year for movies, but I was, like, trying to remember, like, what are some of my favorite scores? I wouldn't, like, disqualify it, but I'm, like, Furiosa, reusing a lot of Fury Road stuff, so, like, I i won't, like, put that at the top. Falling it. Yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, all those original songs and score are more like a diaper full of poo. Yeah. It never got like an official release because apparently people are are more knowledgeable on like Indian releases that ah told me the background music or like what we call the score don't often get like releases for even ah for Indian movies. It'll just be like songs where they're singing like in it, even if it's like a song that's not even the actual movie. So like kill soundtrack.
00:28:47
Speaker
doesn't have like the actual like, like score background music during the fights or like the buildup hype up music, which is so good in that there's like no, you have to like go to YouTube and like find like ah someone doing a ah clip of like, you know, i compiling that music which which sucks it didn't get a full reach but that that was ah that's also up there with some of my favorite The substance had a good score. oh yeah I forgot what movie I was seeing, but it was a quieter one and the substance was the movie over. and So I just kept hearing like, brand didn du du you know, just like really like pumping bass and like siren-y music from like one theater over. And I was just like, hell yeah.
00:29:29
Speaker
It's always nice when a different movie's score kind of changes your film watching experience. Especially when it's a really, I remember a zone of interest, like such a quiet movie. There's like maybe five minutes of score in that movie and it's mostly the credits. Something loud was next door and you hear at certain moments, it's like, yeah, it's definitely a different vibe than this movie. ah But yeah, all the different ones I've listed. Oh yeah, Dune also had, I mean, Zimmer a lot of times, probably not even him. It's probably just like, you know, his proteges or people working for him doing the score and he signs off on it. But I think i think Dune part two especially has actually some legit bangers. Yeah, my favorite is the song that's like. auto um me You know that I sing that like all the time.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, hopefully that sounds too loud. I went pretty far from the mic to do that. No, I think it's gonna sound beautiful. Just like the movie. Just like the movie. But even- People are like, whoa, do they have rights to this? Yeah, we did. Zimmer actually, he just gave us a freebie. He's like, it's cool.
00:30:45
Speaker
ah But no, all joking aside, all those are great scores that I mentioned. I say Conclave counts as all of those. Yeah, Conclave rules. And like just the editing of when it's deployed, it almost remind reminded me of, oh, also shout out the challengers score, with Trent Reznor, and what was it also Atticus, whatever his name is? Atticus Ross. Yeah, I think so.
00:31:10
Speaker
That that that was awesome. But like in that movie, it's like this propulsive like techno score. And it like will come in during just dialogue scenes because like the scenes are shot and scored almost like it's almost like the relationship as a tennis match going back and forth. But like the musical just kick in when someone says something during a conversation and like similarly in Conclave.
00:31:33
Speaker
like they'll have these quiet moments and then the score will start booming in like like it like when a like basically like an explanation point for like a an intense conversation you're like oh but Wordle even played dreadful sounds at like moments where you wouldn't expect it, but it kind of makes things feel a bit more like ominous and interesting ways. Like ah Ralph Fiennes, when he's talking with the one um African cardinal and he is about to, like lee after he's basically told him, like you won't be Pope. You finished. He's never worked in this town. You're done.
00:32:10
Speaker
florida after he tells him that and he was like start again um a new beginning and then he's basically about to leave and then the Cardinal is like can you pray with me and then ah the music is like done like it's kind of like scary like almost and he's like of course yes and then he sits down and like prays and it's just like not expected but it does kind of like My like interpretation of it, moments like that kind of like add to like the burden of like Ralph Fiennes' character and like having to manage all of having to manage this whole conclave. and like it's like yeah He has to take the time to stop and pray with people when they ask him to, and he has to like step up and take this responsibility, even when it's like he is trying to get out of this actively.
00:33:05
Speaker
right and like he clearly doesn't like there's someone who he specifically does not want to become be elected like the evil Italian Cardinal. who i had I've never seen the actor in anything, but he's so good. Benito Mussolini. Benito Mussolini himself yeah wants to take the church back to the dark ages and and like, yeah, he doesn't want that guy to win, but he's also trying to remain apolitical because like his job is, they kept they kept calling him Dean and made me think of like just
00:33:41
Speaker
community, the character team, but like, ah no, but I from things from my Catholic school education were like vaguely coming back during certain points. I was like, Oh, yeah, there's like a college of Cardinals.
Scandals and Narrative in Catholic Church
00:33:54
Speaker
And that's like, where they are, you know, like that collection of Cardinals who are voting like,
00:33:59
Speaker
That's the College of Cardinals and the Dean is like the one who oversees all that. So that's his position. And like he didn't even want like we find out that he wanted to reason. So I think he wanted to just go to like a monastery somewhere outside. he Like he wanted to leave Rome altogether and get a different posting. And the Pope denied that request. And so like that's your starting point for his characters. Like he doesn't want to be. It's kind of like clerks. He's like, I'm not even supposed to be here today. Yeah. He's like the pope told him some people are meant to be shepherds and some people are meant to manage the shepherds. And he's like, you're a manager. Yeah. And he's like, fuck, I don't want to be a manager. I don't want to. You know, I've it's not that like it's kind of interesting because it's not like he has bigger dreams and it's not like he doesn't. Does he actually say what his doubts are? Because he just says
00:34:49
Speaker
Doubt, although there's like a look of when someone refers to, I forgot who it was who talks about like not their faith and in God being a question, but rather their faith in the church. ah Stanley Tucci says that the Pope was starting to question his faith in the church in his final days, but never God.
00:35:07
Speaker
never got, and then you kind of, there you you there is a look in in Ray Fine's face where it's it's like he maybe had some feelings that weren't dissimilar to like, and I mean, honestly, a lot of just regular Catholics became not active after some recent history with the, you know, like like regardless of your faith in God or whatever spirituality, I think there's pretty valid reasons for people to be like institutionally Like, I don't know how I feel about the Catholic Church. that The whole thing kind of kind of fucking grosses me out now that, like, you know, that they had all this shadiness and they were actively like concealing it and like trying to cover their own ass. It just it it kind of makes these movies harder to watch, actually, but like having all that information and knowing that, because like, I don't know about you, but it's like watching any movie or anything with like a Catholic priest, it's like
00:36:07
Speaker
In my head, I am wondering like, do they have sick intentions that like are kind of like, you know, not even related to this story? I don't know why it's just like in my head, you know, anytime I see anybody from the Catholic Church portrayed on screen.
00:36:21
Speaker
even if they are not themselves actively like a predator or like wanting to do stuff like that it just has this kind of griminess to it in the same way that like if a cop i was about to say the same thing like a cop that covers up for another bad cop is kind of just as bad because it's like, okay, you didn't do the the horrible thing yourself, but your were your your priority in this moment is to protect look the bad person and in like this whole institution rather than like doing the right thing and like, you know, like falling your conscious instead, you're like, well, I gotta, you know, we're, I'm in this with him now, so I have to cover it for him. And like, that's kind of like,
00:37:07
Speaker
A lot of people feel that way about the church, I feel like. It's like, yeah, even if you weren't doing that, like you you enabled some shit, man. like Yeah, you're a part well to like your point about like the police, like in and everyday life, like if I'm just like around a police officer, someone who's just in uniform, not even knowing if they're like on the clock
Skepticism of Church Figures
00:37:26
Speaker
or not.
00:37:26
Speaker
I do like get an unease to me and like it's not like well is this like one of like the good one like what kind of cop is this right it' like that carries over into movies with police officers in it but that that applies just as well to the Catholic Church and almost like more so like I almost have to like I start not on their side with like anybody and like in a position of power in the Catholic Church when I'm watching a movie as like an audience member. I'm like, you have to kind of like work me over. Show me that you're not like a creep or a weirdo. Yeah, no, I'm i'm i'm kind of there. I mean, I also feel that way baoooo about police, but ah they' like I think this movie does to that if because it's not going to glot the movie is not ah about that, thankfully. But like the shadow of that
00:38:19
Speaker
lingers over, you know, like but this moment that the church is in, because I think
'Conclave' and Political Climate
00:38:24
Speaker
it's interesting. I haven't read the book, but it's kind of like an alternative present where like they are referring to things that did happen in the church's past, like the sex abuse scandal cover up stuff and that, you know, the pope that oversaw that was like a former Nazi youth. Like that did happen in our reality, but it's seemingly the pope that died that they're replacing.
00:38:45
Speaker
is not like our current Pope, but seems kind of analogous to like, because the whole perception of like you've been saying, like that, like they really want to appear like more progressive and friendly and have this like good PR since I believe it's Pope Francis ah ah took over ah that like it seems like this Pope that died kind of had a similarly like pretty liberal legacy that he was leaving behind of like trying to like push things into like a more like tolerant like way in terms of like the the perception of like the church's stance on on certain things. like That's why there's like this pressure of, like oh, that this like really conservative reactionary ah Italian cardinal, like we we cannot let him win. like He's going to like take us, undo all this progress.
00:39:30
Speaker
and the um More conservative cardinals are regular, because I don't think they actually say the words conservative in the movie, but they do say liberal. They say liberal. you just understand that that, like, yeah, this viewpoint is, you know, whatever you want to call it, conservative, reactionary, like, regressive. Like, and he will he wants to take things back. And appropriately so. The Cardinals taking the more conservative stance are the ones who are more like angry, actively, like vocally, like launching attacks and criticisms at the liberal
00:40:02
Speaker
ah and group of ah cardinals where the liberals are kind of more like, we're going to get together. We're going to group up. We're going to figure out a plan. We're going to be realistic about it. Like, who's the attention going for? Who should we be backing? Like, yeah, and it's fascinating that like, yeah, obviously like this is a European production. ah They know when our elections are like other countries do pay attention to like our or elections, because it does kind of affect the the world. But like ah there's no way they could have known specifically how close that some of these things would parallel. ah Because like all the conversations with the more liberal liberal cardinals where they were like, well, once it seems like Tucci doesn't really have a shot, and they're like considering like none of the options they have are their favorite number one picks. But they're like, well, this is who we can beat him. you know kind of like That was so much of a prevailing like
00:40:57
Speaker
pretty much the past two elections of like, you may not like Joe Biden, but he can beat Trump, you know? You're just like, you're like, this isn't, yeah, we know you guys like want Bernie or whoever, but like, how we gotta go with this this guy can actually win. The only difference is there wasn't this grand savior who, you know, every right everybody, you know, well met in the middle for. Who who who were actually persuaded by this is very raw and like,
00:41:26
Speaker
honest like you know speech that that could actually like affect touch people's hearts. That that that was almost like an Aaron Sorkin-esque fantasy. I haven't really watched much of the West Wing, but my understanding of that is the liberal president will make a really impassioned speech and then the conservative senator will be like, God,
00:41:44
Speaker
Damn it. Like I don't agree with you, but this good i I'll pass your health care because you just fucking your way with words. It's like, that's not how it works. now like You could, you could be the smartest, most eloquent, even beyond the, you know, correct side of something and like make your case for it. That's not actually going to.
00:42:01
Speaker
You're not going to get people on your side like that, but like, I don't know. It felt good in this movie that like that actually did, uh, like end up being the case. Cause like, and then I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Audience Reactions and Ending Twist
00:42:14
Speaker
I was like, well, this is going to like almost like a too much of a happy ending that this is like.
00:42:18
Speaker
the best possible person yeah wins it. And there is- Ralph Fiennes is like, oh, I'm relieved. I didn't even want the poke position. This feels good. And then they're like, hey, one more thing, actually. The man in purple is like, uh. He's like, oh, whoops-a-daisy. no Yeah, I mean, well, but we'll wait to get to that final reveal in ah in a little bit. Because I think it is it is huge that like that that's in the mood.
00:42:48
Speaker
The whole movie leading up to it, I was like, this is, i'm I'm loving all this. But then including that ending is kind of a cherry on on top. And yeah, I think that it might be divisive. I don't know how people are going to feel about that. I don't think people like it. Yeah. Well, not I can't speak for everybody because I know there are people who do really like it. But the people I've like physically been in the theater with seem like our theater was didn't feel great about like the guy the guy was that's crazy. Yeah. And I would agree that it's crazy, but not in the same way that he thinks it's great. Like yeah I got the sense that I could almost hear him shaking his head of like test, test, testing of like, yeah, he like didn't even explain what happened. Oh no, he did to the person he was with. He was like, well, I don't think he fully knew what happened because he was like, he was like, he used to be a girl.
00:43:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, that's not, I mean, and I did think initially that I was like, Oh, this is a trans route. Yeah. I guess let's just get in and into it since we're hopping all around. There's like this, this big question mark of this Cardinal that shows up who wasn't even like on their official roster, like his appointment. There's like some technical Vatican term for like an appointment made in secret.
00:44:08
Speaker
And the reason that they're given like, oh, well, the Pope did this to protect him because he was in all these dangerous places like he was in Afghanistan and stuff. But then there's like, you know, ah I don't even know what Ray finds is Number one minion like that title is I called him as Renfield like keep keeps like zipish show some kind of Bishop position. Yeah, I guess that like because he's not sequestered like Ray finds in the other Cardinals. He's free to like go about and like get info and like bring it back to him.
00:44:40
Speaker
Um, so he had like done digging found, there was like some, some kind of like met medical treatment that this guy had been like whisked away to. And it was like kind of done in secret. And ah at one point Ray finds is like, especially after the whole thing with the Nigerian Cardinal, he was just like, no more secrets. Like I just, I, I, he he was kind of tired of digging up stuff on, on people for, for a moment. And.
00:45:05
Speaker
And he doesn't find until the you know election's been cast that this is, I mean, I would, I think the current correct clinical term for, uh, what he, I mean, they weren't given pronouns, so I'm going to just call him he, because that's the, he didn't seem to be disputing anyone on going by a man, but like hey just being a he yeah seems you just chose to be like, I'm going to be represented ah as a man.
Intersex Pope and Church Implications
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah. This is how, this is how I'm presenting myself. Like this is how I've lived my whole life.
00:45:38
Speaker
before so i'm just going to continue with with this that that that he's intersexes which means like uh you know i think they used to call that like hermaphrodite or whatever like going with both parts yeah which sometimes takes different form because like from what they said he had a uterus in ovaries but like no vagina like it seemed like that he had just you know like a dick or you know like whatever male genitalia he would normally have but then inside that they found i forgot how old he said he he was like in his 30s or something when they finally like that he was ah made aware of this that's like oh that was in me this whole time yeah it's like a horror movie
00:46:19
Speaker
Uh, I mean, yeah, it's but body stuff. I mean, to me, I think it's wording it like that. it That was in me the whole time. That's what I said when I passed the quarter that I swallowed. Like, that was in me the whole time. It's a part of you.
00:46:38
Speaker
ah and i to yeah It's still in there. I was a kid when that happened. Like the gum I swallowed 10 years ago, it's still in there. In there the whole time.
00:46:50
Speaker
No, but jokes. I like I think that this is like a really interesting reveal and like kind of touching in this moment that they share because like Ray five like he seems pretty liberal and open minded throughout the movie. But obviously this would be shocking to learn, especially the person you just elected pope. You're like,
00:47:10
Speaker
Wait, a what who like well what what? So what what's your deal? ah And he's you kind of do see him his as he's like processing and trying to make sense of everything that he's being told about this.
00:47:27
Speaker
especially learning that the pope knew about it. He's like, he knew. and yeah ah And he was like, hey, I thought about getting the procedure, the surgery to change it, but I thought it would be a sin to change the way God made me. And it's like, yeah, isn't that the argument the church has been making? Right. It's like they want you to naturally embrace how if God doesn't make mistakes, then why? Like, I never understood that rationale of like, well, the the like,
00:47:57
Speaker
Homosexuality is a sin. You can't act on those impulses you're having, but you're like, well, God made do that way. So like you what are you saying? that god make That argument in the heretic, I think it was to. Yeah. Yeah. That's like he wants you to feel this way, but then not do it like as some kind of fucked up test or something like mean a whole group of people that he hates basically. Right. Like why why would any loving God do that? Like that doesn't make any sense. So like I thought there was something kind of beautiful about that, of like how I'm present like, yeah, this is this is how I was made.
00:48:30
Speaker
And again, I'm not like a doctor. I don't know what would, cause he has male genitalia and, uh, would removing those, is it like a hormonal thing that like, he maybe be probably has like more estrogen or like female hormones than a normal person, like than a normal, like, you know, like a cis male or whatever, and like removing the, the organs would like.
00:48:55
Speaker
ah hope like deplete or negate that, or at least stop the the production of those in your body. but like I mean, I don't know, this guy's well into adulthood, so I don't know that's like... It seems like he's fine. Yeah, he's fine. like i And i don't I was just curious, like what would removing the uterus do? you know like what is what it It doesn't seem to be affecting anything. He just gets real jacked or something. He just looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something.
00:49:23
Speaker
I mean, I would just admit, like maybe he's, you know, he has becomes really hairy.
00:49:34
Speaker
I don't know. Whatever happens when you have too much testosterone. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, but. Yeah. ah Z, this might be a dumb question. Does he like go through the same like reproductive cycle and like get a period and everything?
00:49:52
Speaker
Well, that's like the ovaries and uterus are there, but if you're having, I'm going to start showing my limits as a man. like i know I was like, don't you need a vagina? I don't know. like I don't know. It's a lot to think about. It's a lot to take in. It's like thinking about my body. Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker
I mean, it it it it it it it definitely is not something I saw coming. like They set up the me this whole medical mystery. But it being that, I feel like is like the best way to end this movie because the whole time Ray finds and our now newly elected intersex Pope in in his speech was saying that like, the church is not like our past or tradition, it's what we do, you know, like, it's like, the what we do going forward is the most important thing. And it's like, this is like the ultimate challenge to that open mindedness and kind of like liberal mentality of like, I could see even Stanley Tucci having some like,
00:51:03
Speaker
qualms about, I don't know how I feel about this. Like if if like this truth comes out and like this is like like a test for like, are we ready for this? Even in their wording of things too.
00:51:15
Speaker
Stanley Tucci isn't straight up like, I'm pro-abortion or like I'm pro-choice or whatever. He's just like, I'm not for the days of where parents were forced to have 10 children. Those were dark times. He like, they're tiptoeing around even like the liberal words. He's defining himself in opposition to, I believe it's Tradesco is the Italian card. He's like, everything he's for I'm against. So like, like he's basically defining his political views in that way, which is not quite saying like, I'm for but abortion. He's just like, i I don't want us to be as hard line condemning people who do that as like we had been, you know, or is like, I'm not going to say I don't think families should have to take care of kids. They like aren't equipped to take care of. Like, I don't think we should say gay people are going to hell. We can maybe still make a little face. him you know whisper behind them about their back, but we're not gonna- Yeah, we'll talk about them when they're not around, but- Or say some stuff of about, I'll say off, there's been some interesting quotes by our current real world Pope recently that like,
00:52:24
Speaker
I think I think in real life they are this gossipy and caddy because like there's been like leaks from like the cart like within closed meetings just saying shit that the the pope was like shit talking and saying it was like who's leaking this like i we were hearing about that like it like seems like are is this for some some political motive that someone would want the press and us to know about this or are you guys just like a bunch of caddy bitches you're just like can you believe that he said that Yeah, probably a little bit of both. Yeah, think a little bit of both, which I do want to circle back to the whole Jacob Tremblay of it all. i think I think he's one of the most interesting characters. I think, I think good boy himself. Yeah. It's like, wow, after room, after doctor sleep, he's been through so much and now
00:53:14
Speaker
like such such a young cardinal could become pope that's like inspirational yeah exactly so that's why they called it the young pope oh wait that's a different show i mean i should watch the young pope i'm all pope-pilled now maybe maybe i'll start getting into pope movies like maybe i should become the pope yeah let's start looking at that as a career choice priesthood
00:53:37
Speaker
Cardinal i mean is there a a do you have to be of a certain age right like you have to be thirty five to run for president hard can it be it's not like they're asking you to do like physical labor i mean the hardest thing i had to do in my time ah going to catholic school was Actually, this is on topic with what we're talking about. um Pope John Paul had died, I think it was. And so what happened is we came into school. They were like, it's the Pope's fault. Or no, they're like, we know one of you guys did it. It's your guy's fault.
00:54:13
Speaker
we're gonna find out which one of you guys killed the Pope so they brought us into church and they had us kneel and we had to do every prayer on the rosary and it was like I think a hour or two hour process of like just kneeling and it was fucking brutal it sounds like torture a little bit yeah they were like you guys killed the Pope Were they really phrasing it that way? They're like, tell us who did it. So reveal yourself. Wow. And we all stuck together and we didn't, you know. I ain't saying nothing. They didn't phrase it that way, but they treated it like it was a punishment. They were like, guys, the Pope's dead and you guys need to pay for it.
00:54:51
Speaker
I mean, that's how Catholics think in terms of like, it's all guilt based of like not something you had nothing to do with is actually you're like, we're so sinful that like your sin killed the pope. You know, like, and that was brutal on your knees, too. I remember the teacher like told us or like, if you feel like you're going to pass out or anything, like, let us know and we'll like walk you to the nurse so you can get up for a little bit. It's like, is this illegal? Sounds borderline not like that. i don't know that you should do that to kids or anyone. Yeah. But. ah And parents allowed that. They were like, yep, that's what happens. The pope dies and you end up being in a lot of pain for it. That's how it should work. Yeah, that can't be legal. Seems wrong. i I don't support it. Tradesco, he'd probably be like, yeah.
00:55:45
Speaker
make those kids kneel. They killed the Pope. So somewhere there was a Catholic school full of kids kneeling for like an hour or two. It'd be funny if they had to to do it through the whole conclave. Like this is like multiple days because they can't, you know, reach a consensus and like the kids have to stay kneeling. I didn't see one of those cardinals kneeling at any point. They were praying seated on a bed.
00:56:12
Speaker
Yeah, fucking privileged motherfuckers. Yeah, it's wild. ah Church sounds problematic. For those reasons alone. Yeah. No other reasons. No, but Lithgow always loves seeing him. Interesting that I've just been randomly just through what I've been watching.
00:56:34
Speaker
like random political thrillers that he pops up in, like I had just watch the Palmas blow out and he's- What, that's Tremblay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. John Lithgow. Will Ferrell's dad from Daddy's Home 2? Yeah. Okay. Harry and the Hendersons himself, James Franco's dad and Rises the Planet of the Apes. Yeah. I just re-watched that recently. Daddy's Home himself. Lithgow's really good. I mean, li Franco's miscast, but Lithgow's really good in Rise.
00:57:03
Speaker
Uh, I mean, he's good. I've never seen him be bad in anything, but he's, he's excellent in this. And like his characters immediately sus from like, when from Ray finds perspective, you get there, the Pope's already dead. And then they're like, so what time did he die? And then there was like some gap in time between, between, he was called there. And then lift comes like, Oh, yeah I just needed to, you know, make sure everything was cool before we call it. I didn't want to bother you. It's like already you're like,
00:57:31
Speaker
What? yeah Did you kill the pope? like why white why Did you mother the pope to death? You're holding a bloody dagger. like Licking the blood off of it is really interesting, but that's how we found you.
00:57:48
Speaker
No, this guy's like super shady. And so do you think he was hiding that paperwork that Ralph Fiennes finds in the Pope's bed? Yeah, absolutely. And I wasn't sure. Because at first I didn't like quite pick up on that at first. I was like, why would the Pope play this game and like hide this shit? Like leave a breadcrumb of tray of like, like no one but but the person I want to find it would ever look here. Yeah. It's a weird move. Yeah, I think he knows he's in a movie. I think he just got just quickly panicked in terms of like he found the scene first and is like, well, fuck, I got to like hide this. Make sure I'm the first one on scene. Put it in his like diaper that he's probably wearing or something. Like big robes, just like stuff it in your pants.
00:58:34
Speaker
Yeah. What are they going to search him? Maybe they do that. They're like, did you kill the Pope? And they found all these papers. yeah It's interesting. Yeah. ah Yeah. It was pretty sloppy on on on his part and and just other people who seem to be aware of that he was like, because you find out in this meeting he had with the Pope that day, the Pope asked for his resignation, and then he's denying and trying to cover that up. But other people are lying for him in terms of like, that didn't happen. No, he didn't get fired. I like when ah ah Ralph Fiennes finally like confronts him before it all blows up and he makes copies of the papers that he found. And he was like,
00:59:14
Speaker
I'm gonna forget this conversation ever took place. And then he's like, it did take place. That scene is so good. One, you it's two great actors just like facing off. And the way it's shot because it's like you have this long hallway that we've seen before. And it's just like the cameras farther away. I love always love like a long take that keeps like closing it. Because like by the end of that conversation, we're just like it's just their faces like We start pretty far out and there's a good height difference between them, right? Yeah, he's kind of like towering over a five I think lift guys like me like six three six four He's pretty tall but like yeah We just like keep getting closer and closer as it and then they get a final moment like I'm gonna pretend this didn't it and like the way He delivers that it just take but it didn't take place It's almost like it's like almost involuntarily blurting out of him like that. He can't even help but say this he's like
01:00:04
Speaker
He's just so frustrated. He's tired of dealing with all you Cardinals. All you guys in your horseshit. They don't even want to be here. Play your games, man. It's so good. It's so, it's so fucking good. I love the look of like, he almost has a look of like despair at like times. Like there's a moment where I think they're all like walking into the conclave. They're about to do another vote. And it's like, I could be wrong on like the placement of the shot, but it's, um,
01:00:34
Speaker
him just walking and the cameras just slowly following him and it's just he just looks so like sad and distraught like. and Yeah he i and i think i don't you know like there's no inner monologue to tell us exactly.
01:00:51
Speaker
what he's thinking. He's just in a place he doesn't want to be and I could like relate where I'm just like, fuck, I don't want to be. I'm stuck here how many days? ah It's getting prolonged. It's like this huge responsibility that like he did he specifically asked to not have this job before the Pope died. and Now he's like stuck with this and it's like a burden. kind of in like He's like, how did I get here?
01:01:19
Speaker
yeah I did everything to not be here and now I'm here. Yeah. So I think that's part of his challenge or test and rather that like, I, I, you know, like you said, they're vague about like, is his crisis of faith, is it specifically God or is it just, I, my interpretation that it was the church specifically that maybe he wanted to distance himself from and, but this is challenging him even more. Cause this is like the most important thing that could be happening for the church right now.
Ray Fiennes' Role in 'Conclave'
01:01:48
Speaker
Now he's being forced to like oversee it, make sure it runs right.
01:01:51
Speaker
make sure that it's like on the level that it's like that they pick the right person. It's like all these responsibilities are just being placed on him. And you see like him carrying that, that, that weight. And it's like, even though it is this like kind of small contained movie and there's really not a lot of people up that are a part of this process, yeah it feels like so closed off from the world. It is such a, it is.
01:02:19
Speaker
Going to have like a huge impact on people's lives who were like the outcome of this decision and the movie what I kind of appreciate it for is It doesn't make it about that. It doesn't like it's not showing people in the outside world. It's not showing like ah There are outside world things that and we'll get specifically one huge moment but like we're not seeing any of that from like the like civilian POV or ground level. We're just getting the weight that's on Ray find. Is it Ray or Ralph? Do I keep saying the wrong name? It's it's like Ray for Ray, like, like the the. Yeah, it's like kind of like a silent way finds. Yeah. I think they call him Ralph earlier. He did, but I wasn't sure if that was a bit or not, so I was like, I think that's funny. I've been so bad at this actor's names since Voldemort, but yeah, since those days, because he was Voldemort, right? Since the days of Voldemort, I could never get this dude's fucking name. It's crazy. I love him in the menu, and it's like I still can't get his name. It's crazy to let Voldemort decide the next day. Yeah.
01:03:26
Speaker
but it's really like it's the way yeah that's on his shoulders not the weight of the world that we're seeing and i did really appreciate how intimate it was able to make such an impactful world decision Like they reference the world and how this could affect it almost in the abstract, because it's like the most you see of like the like like, you know, they're showing the smoke of like it's black smoke when they don't have a decision. It's like white when they've selected a new pope. You hear like cheering when when the the white smoke. But we're not even seeing the people cheering like that it's like that's not about it's not about them. You know, like it's about on this like very
01:04:05
Speaker
micro level of like yeah what this guy's experience of this is. They just cut to the DiCaprio meme of like him pointing when they show the smoke and it's like we get it. That's the world's reaction. Right. Which that is the meme everyone would be sharing. That's the most relevant meme. But speaking of outside world, I do want to like reference like it. do You, I guess there are like little hints, maybe peppered, but it kind of comes out of nowhere. And I made the joke like, are they doing the Joker Falia do anything like when the bombing happens?
01:04:45
Speaker
It's like I guess we find out like a car bomb went off in because I think there had been some kind of there was a couple bombings that happened Beforehand and they're just like how far away is this car bomb was this explosion? We had just ah was it a part of the car bomb or was it like the car bomb happened? Then someone else had a bomb on them and then more shit happened and this was another part of that but it's like I How far away is this car bomb from that? What would an explosion be like? Because it comes from up above too. yeah um I didn't really fully understand like where the explosion was, how close it was. I also also don't know the scope of like a typical terrorist attack explosion. and Also, the geography of the Vatican itself is kind of eludes me. like I understand that on a technical level,
01:05:39
Speaker
it's okay, it's in Rome, but they have their own sovereign, like they're almost like a country in of of themselves. So I'm like, was the target being bombed somewhere in Rome? Or was it the Vatican specifically being targeted by this bomb? I kind of do like how chaotic and like we don't because they don't have any way of knowing he's specifically telling his, ah his Renfield to not give him details in terms of like,
01:06:05
Speaker
You know, like it was like he has to not be affected by that for making his his his vote. I mean, they have to tell people once it's like literally like interrupting their session, that a bomb went off and they need to know they have to tell people then. But like, ah but but I do like that, like how we really don't understand how any of that came to be or what any of that even means. Like for my understanding of like dramatically, the reason to have that is.
01:06:34
Speaker
It adds more attention to like there's this fear the whole time that Tradesco, hopefully I'm saying that Cardinal's name right, of like the the thing that that's scary about him other than that he wants to take the church back backwards is that like he's preying on people's fear and like that like the church is like you know being perceived to be in like this weakened state in like the world in terms of like how it's perceived. i mean kind of like how people think America is weakened and their fear they turn to someone pretty regressive. ah But that that like this is like emboldening to him because then he's making his pretty racist plea of like how that like but they didn't even confirm that the terrorists were Muslim. Like he's kind of just a so like I was like, we don't even know anything about what the fuck happened up there. He's like, they're trying to kill us. And like, like, how like, why are we being taking our jobs?
01:07:30
Speaker
Like they want to be Pope. Yeah, there's they're sending their Muslims. They're taking our popes. I almost was expecting the reveal at the end of like somehow one of the Cardinals was ah like related to like they were using the bombing like politically like of how all these other political mach machinations were happening. I was like,
01:07:53
Speaker
Well, that'd be pretty crazy, right? If one of them like had a bomb go off or like people died to like affect this election. I was like, I don't know. They're fucking up to some shit. So maybe like I was almost expecting that's what the final twist would be like that. Oh, Benitez somehow like he knew that like.
01:08:11
Speaker
It would, okay, the reactionary cardinal would start saying some racist shit, and then I can say this inspiring speech, and then I'll become like, you somehow like, chess move plan that, like, but no, i'm I'm glad that that wasn't the use of it. But I i do like how that shook things up, because it's like,
01:08:30
Speaker
It seemed pretty much like we were, you know, Ray finds the whole time is saying he does not want this. He was never had any designs on this, you know, the whole thing. He's like, every cardinal has their pope name picked out. And he's like, I don't I've never never once thought about that. And I believe him like that. He's like, I don't have him. But like he wanted to pick one. He picks one. john A name that's never been picked.
01:08:57
Speaker
You can tell he hasn't thought about it. this is the name that go go with john You should use your real name, Robin. yeah I do want to ask you, um.
01:09:16
Speaker
the ah we did talk about yesterday that uh they had a chance for this movie to end with a clean night nicely like wrapped bow do you think that movie goes down in uh ranking for you if it ends with a neatly wrapped bow do you think it stays where it's at what what do you think If it doesn't have that little extra bit of twist and uncertainty for the Catholic Church, what do you think that does for you for me? I still really I you know like it was
01:09:52
Speaker
That's going to be a sticking point for people, I think. It feels weird to call this movie like a roller coaster ride based on the subject, but I really felt like that through the whole thing. so i like I would still really enjoy this movie on that level, but maybe honestly, instead of five stars, it's more like a four and a half or something because I'm like, yeah, it was so enjoyable and well-made and propulsive.
01:10:12
Speaker
but like almost went down a little too smooth. There's almost part of me that like so resents movies that are a little too tidy. So like, not that like I like actively hold it against like most movies or anything, but it's like this movie in particular, I feel like it just adds so much more to have this little bit of extra juiciness at the at the end and to really leave you with something to like think about in terms of like, like I said, like this is kind of a fantasy Catholic church where We could, like, minus the final twist, like, I don't think this guy would get elected any way, like, based on the world and, like, you know, like how things are, like, just a non-white pope. I don't think it's happening anytime soon. Yeah. You know, but the, the, the, if it still
Complex Endings in Movies
01:11:03
Speaker
ended. It could if they want to really show how progressive they are. If they want to.
01:11:08
Speaker
yeah as a time it's for the raymon pope time i did want to say though i agree like neat and tidy endings don't really work for me that's what i thought about return to the jedi i was like too neat too tidy how about three more It's like, what if the Empire came back but they were like dumber and like had like a not interesting name or something? Like, oh, it's not a first order. Return of the Jedi just wasn't, it was just too clean. Yeah. Yeah, we needed more. We needed more. ah Yeah, it just, it leaves you, it just sticks, think endings like that just stick with me more. Like, like i there's plenty of movies that I've enjoyed and,
01:11:51
Speaker
and really you know resonate with me sometimes that do have like happy endings but like for me they really have to like earn that too if like if oh boy you better not just like rush to like wrap this up all tidy and not that that's what this movie would have been because like it was a struggle to get to this point ah ah but like I yeah, I just really appreciate that it ends on because like going back to his whole opening homily before their sequestered is like that he's like talking about this uncertainty and like that that that's really what is gives faith meaning like before we recorded we were talking about like
01:12:32
Speaker
how much, you know, you and me, like we've been raised around religion, even though it's like not for us personally, but like we've seen even on this podcast of colored blots of movies are like about faith or faith adjacent. Surprisingly, like a like like this year, our first year. Yeah. First year of the podcast. I mean, we miss the first omen and immaculate, but right. There's been a lot of that this year. ah But but like I do enjoy when movies tackle it in a way that doesn't really like give you a clear resolute. like To me, that's what's more interesting is that it's not going to settle the... like A movie's job isn't at the end of the day to like solve a problem. you know like To me, like if you're just bringing up the thing and then making me giving me some questions to chew on, like I really value that. and like
01:13:24
Speaker
Uh, yeah, like I had said, said before we started, like my favorite Jesus movie is like the last temptation because Jesus is, you know, he's human. Like he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. A lot of times he has doubts he's uncertain. And it's like, just like Ray finds the same, like that's what faith should, doesn't that make it more meaningful? That like, that's what faith is. Like you don't know what's going to happen and you kind of just have to believe that like,
01:13:50
Speaker
something better is possible and like that's to me I think that's a pretty beautiful sending you know like I'm person not a person of faith but like I like the idea of that you know like and and that makes the descending really rare like yeah it's gonna I'm interested because the whole movie I'm like oh I can't wait to show us to my parents and then with the ending I'm like I know I had the same exact thought I'm like the ending kind of makes this something I can't like Show my family because I know they're gonna like may Not even be critical about it, but they're just gonna be really like put off Yeah, maybe not understanding of what it's actually trying to say
01:14:29
Speaker
I think they're gonna be so put off it's gonna make them miss the point and kind of like make them judge the movie in a way they wouldn't have judged it before. It's a fucking woke-poke movie. And it's like, but it's not even like woke though. No! It's not even like... It's not even like talking about things, like the case of like somebody being like born with both, that's not even like a thing that's like in the discussion politically right now, you know?
01:14:58
Speaker
do not get brought up or lumped in with the other like LGBTQ like ki mean I don't well is there an eye for intersex no right like they're not even represented in the in that acronym like yeah uh now i'm just curious of like because like i like ah i brought up like this how god made them yeah you know it It's almost like too weighty and too like off putting to some people, I think. It's such a small, 1.7% of the population are born with intersex traits. And that could be a whole gradient of like, because like him specifically, it was the uterus and ovaries and
01:15:43
Speaker
I don't know exactly how you get that far without catching it. Maybe it like didn't develop. like I really don't know. I don't know enough about the body or biology to know how how how that works. But it it doesn't always look like that for people who are born in that situation. And a lot of times the doctor just will make a decision about like okay male or female. like It's leaning one way or the other.
01:16:05
Speaker
Yeah, I first found out that you could have both parts actually from just a throwaway joke on a Family Guy episode that I won't repeat the joke. but I feel like it was always that concept was always brought up jokingly to me in terms of like media or something. i i i I can't really think of things that have explored that on any kind of like serious level. and Yeah.
01:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, i I'm, I'm, I'm drawing a blank now, but there's probably something like a sci-fi thing that's covered the i concept of like overlapping, you know, male, female, because, you know, sci-fi, you can get like slightly more metaphorical with stuff and be like, well, that's an alien race. They got, you know.
01:16:44
Speaker
I don't know. They're born with everything. Yeah. um What you said, though, was like a very like beautiful sentiment, though. um Everything you said, I'm fine with kind of like steering towards an ending for the episode now. like Yeah, I think that's a good note to end on. I i even with.
01:17:04
Speaker
Like we said that like, oh, how are certain people going to react to? I mean, obviously at the end of the day, our personal experience with it is, is the important. I still want to show this to my parents because I hope that they can at least like, we can start a dialogue about like what ending me. We're going to have a conversation, you know? Yeah. And then also to like hope that you can talk about, hopefully talk about everything that came before the 99 percent of the movie that's not that. Yeah. But like we just did basically. Right. Like is that guy sprinkled in there a couple of times? Was the guy to the right of us just going to come out of that movie, be like, oh, fucking.
01:17:42
Speaker
The movie's loony and he doesn't even remember the other all the other shit. Yeah, I thought it was just a woke trans movie. Which is not even trans. It's like, yeah I don't know that people like that they lum ball certain ah people mindset together like people aren't gonna even understand what that demographic is you know yeah that that's like not the same as trans people honestly I don't even think people if they're not paying attention to the dialogue they might not even understand what's happening because I mean if you don't understand I think the term like hysterectomy and right like if you've never heard like a family member or someone had that you might
01:18:19
Speaker
Cause it is like a quieter conversation too. If you don't understand the word hysterectomy and pay attention to what they're saying, you might not even pick up on what's actually happening. and and i'ming body and whatever the other party, the lady party. That's why I think the one guy went to like, he used to be a girl. He wasn't paying attention to what was actually happening or being a girl. He just said girl parts. He was a girl. Yeah. I don't think people are going to be fully picking up on what's happening. Walking out the, I didn't, yeah, I don't know. I fully knew what was happening.
Cultural Misunderstandings and Representation
01:18:54
Speaker
I didn't even consider that people might like misunderstand it until the second time around when we were in the theater with
01:19:00
Speaker
that dude giving his commentary where I was like, oh, he doesn't know what's happening. Well, and like you said, it's such a rare, not discussed thing. Like I've literally literally like I said, I feel like just as like thrown off jokes and like like comedies and stuff where where that's that's reference. But like, ah yeah, it's it's not really something that's like talked about even in terms of like political like like queer issues. Like it doesn't get it doesn't get brought up. So like yeah I I'm interested of like culturally What this, will this like be more of a, like, I know there are only 1.7% of like the population, but like that's still part of the human experience. Like they're living here. So like, we should be able to talk about it. It is very interesting too, to introduce something like that, ah like, um, a conversation piece like that in a movie about the Catholic church that is going to get a lot of attention because of awards play. Like.
01:19:58
Speaker
Yeah, and it's already a political movie that's like taught like I'm sure other I mean, you can just watch this and enjoy it on the level of like, this is intense and thrilling of like these characters in the scenario, but like there's clear like political illusions. I'm sure some could, you know, the typical crowd would be like, ah, this woke stuff. But even before the ending, they're going to be like, oh, so this movie was anti-Trump, huh? You know, like they're going to be all defensive about that, I think. And like, like the movie already might be divisive even before you get to the end. I don't know.
International Recognition Challenges
01:20:29
Speaker
So this wasn't produced in the Hollywood system. So it can't it would get ah can get a best international nom. I don't know who produced. I just know the director is European. It almost seems like if they speak English in it, they're just like, it's not international. Right.
01:20:50
Speaker
um Produce.
01:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, i'm I'm not sure where this would fall, but hopefully it can still be when all the things because, yeah, I don't know. I think it's I think it's such a unique, interesting movie that I enjoyed.
01:21:13
Speaker
I was even Googling
Unique Aspects of 'Conclave'
01:21:14
Speaker
that. It was like how the top question, oh top asked questions in Google is like, who plays the intersex Pope in conclave? Nice. I mean, that actor was really good. Yeah. I like I said, like all the international cast that I haven't seen and stuff before, I'm I'm I'm kind of like, well, I would if I knew they were in something that was like accessible that I could find, I would be like,
01:21:36
Speaker
ah Especially that the Italian, the evil Pope. like he was He was like, st chewing scenery in a way that was like, man, I want to see him just he should play like an Italian Sith Lord or something. Yeah. Well, hell yeah. So, I mean, fucking yeah, great movie. um I wouldn't be surprised if people listen to the spoiler section having not seen it since I don't don't really know if our listeners are what they're into yet. Right. And tell us if you're seeing Conclave or not listeners, but go see it. if Even if you, yeah, you got this far and you like, you just wanted to know, go, go see it, man. Like it's really, you're, I like, ah yeah, I don't know if everyone will be on its wavelength, but it's just so well made that like, i it's hard for me to imagine someone not getting anything out of this, like regardless of how you feel about certain elements or like the ending. And you it's like, I think just watch it. Like I, I, it, it,
01:22:32
Speaker
not only was entertained and thrilled me, like it made me think and it made me feel things. like i don't i mean I value any movie but that can have that effect. and i really i really I'm like rooting for this thing now. like this This is one of my... If I was a I mean, I'm not going to bet on the ostrich when I'm like, oh, put all the money on concrete. I think this will be, this is a good underdog pick. I think, I think it's going to have a lot of presence um when it comes, when the nominations come up.
01:23:04
Speaker
I hope so. i yeah i really want us to i mean His last movie, All Quiet on the Western Front, so I feel like no one was expecting it to get that many. It was a Netflix thing, right? Yeah, Netflix movies already, people aren't expecting to like actually win stuff. But then the fact that this is like a remake, it's like an older Bullock. it's like what To me, I didn't really sense any like expectation going in that that was going to like walk away with anything and then it like won a few awards and it was like, oh, oh, okay. Like I, I, I, hopefully this in an even bigger way has that kind of quiet surprise of like, oh shit, Conclave. Like I didn't see that coming. I think this is going to probably have a bigger pop than All Quiet on the Western Front. I think so. I mean, this one,
01:23:51
Speaker
It's not as quiet, so when is that working for it? Yeah. The score's really loud. I was about to say, yeah. Score's fucking poppin'. It's like a nightclub in there when this movie's playing. The nightclub? Yeah. Now I'm just picturing like collateral nightclub scene. Tom Cruise is there. Yeah.
Church Themes in Media
01:24:11
Speaker
Ray Fiennes is there. I almost said Ralph. Have they been, have Tom and him been nothing? Oh, I doubt it.
01:24:21
Speaker
I cast him in Mission Impossible. He's the entity. Well, he could be. Okay. Before our final plugs say, I am ready to wrap this up, but I just wanted to randomly throw out there. I was just thinking about other things I've watched this year that like dealt with like church stuff or, or, uh, you know, the Catholic church specifically. If you're kind of in the same boat as me or Nick and you're like i ah yeah like, I don't believe in that stuff or I'm not a person of faith or like actively part of the church, but some of this stuff is like compelling in terms of just like.
01:24:55
Speaker
The church is just weird. You know, like it's like it's this its is like this fascinating. They have these rituals and all these like weird looking relics. It's like all these specific things. And you're like, what's collateral? watch All that's in collateral. No, I was just going to shout out the show Evil that
Streaming vs. Purchasing Content
01:25:11
Speaker
just ended. yeah and It's it's like a it's like a whore. It's basically like Netflix or AMC or something fortunately. It's a Paramount and ah so So no one will ever see it Yeah, you can buy Paramount Plus things on Apple and like iTunes I think guys if you know it's like Friday's coming up So there likely will be a sale for like everything and honestly I would like owning this show the time It's it's it's basically like Catholic X files in like in up to the point where it's like
01:25:42
Speaker
conspiracies about the church like not not sex abuse conspiracies but like stuff that I didn't even know was like probably based on what I just have like cursory looked into it I was like oh this is a made-up thing of for the show I'm like wait do the church really have this like they kind of have their own CIA which is interesting like they're pretty much their own country and it's like Yeah, they would have an intelligence agency, wouldn't they? That's weird. Isn't that kind of weird? Like, yeah, they get into that in evil. Hell yeah. And while you're buying stuff that's streaming on Paramount Plus, uh, Detroiters, you can buy that too. don't you Don't go to Paramount Plus or Netflix. And, uh... Yeah. Fuck streaming. Just buy your shit. Should we plug it up? Let's plug it up. pun bo
01:26:32
Speaker
bringing it back, bringing it back. We own that song now. That's ours. I haven't heard that jingle in a while. So I think it's in the public domain. I think if you go that long without hearing it, yeah, it's kind of like Steamboat Willie. It's a public domain. Yeah. So we'll be hearing that ah as our theme for this episode, the blade plugin theme. That's funny. Um,
01:26:52
Speaker
But yeah, uh, you could follow my, uh, you know, for a time being I'm, I'm still on the sinking ship. That's Twitter. I think, I think everyone that's leaving is probably going to come back. There's been a lot of times where everyone's like, it's, oh, it's finally over. And then none of the replacements are really that good. So people come back, but, uh, currently I still have an account on Twitter at Doug or not.
01:27:17
Speaker
underscore two uh in the show's twitter is that at guys got juice i also have a account on blue sky or whatever the fuck the new twitter thing is so i think it's the dug or not look me up on there and i made a page for the show i think just look for these guys got juice i have to extra start posting for that one. But yeah, I'm putting a page on there. It's not going to become the new Twitter. I'm sorry. good I mean, I'm not saying this as like, an i look I'm hoping Musk succeeds. I hate the guy. I'm just saying like, i I think Twitter's not going anywhere. So that's, I'm still on there.
01:27:51
Speaker
grand ba boy yeah iing words um You can follow us on Instagram at these guys got juice pod. I'd also like to plug g blade plugins You can buy those at a retail store near you um You can follow me on letterbox at Nicholas Ewers and I'm Nick Ewers. I'm Doug Davenport and we're these guys got juice. Have a good night