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Wicked
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Today on These Guys Got Juice, the guys are reviewing Wicked! Directed by Jon M. Chu, starring Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande!
Does this movie adaptation live up to the Broadway musical? Does the movie justify it's runtime? How does it play as a prequel to The Wizard of Oz? Are the guys better singers than Cynthia and Ariana? Most importantly, were they swept away by the magic of this undeniably gargantuan hit? Listen for the juice!
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Transcript
Ariana Grande & Cynthia Arevo: Career Highlights
00:00:40
Speaker
They'll never bring us down. We I think we did that better than Nacho Bell Grande and is that the Taco Bell dish Nacho Bell Grande Ariana Grande? No, they took that off the menu because of woke. No, I don't know They might still have it and Cynthia Jesus Christ. I'm so we should throw it all away. No, no keep it in Ariana Grande and Cynthia, uh, uh, Cynthia Arevo. Holy shit. I can't speak. It's Arevo, right? I feel like I've said Ervo. I don't know. Is it Arevo? No, I think you're right. I'm just stupid. Cynthia Arevo.
00:01:22
Speaker
I have always what can say I've always like said she came out of the womb. i i I was a fan day one. I was in the delivery room. I was like, I was a fan part of the plotting. I was a fan since her days and regrets.
00:01:39
Speaker
Cynthia that's that's a joke for intellectuals. Yeah, you gotta You gotta like read books to get there Yeah um What was the first thing I saw her in I know she's in widows which rules Bad Times at the El Royale. No, I think that honestly was... Oh, that was the same year as Widows, but like I think I saw Bad Times first. And there's like that scene where she's singing... What Motown song is she singing? But there's a whole thing where she has to distract yeah someone while singing, and like Jeff Bridges... John M. She's distracting. she's And she's distracting him while Bridges goes and does something. like He's like sneaking behind a thing.
00:02:22
Speaker
And I forget the Motown song she sings. It's a very famous song, but ah heard I was just blown away. I was like, who the fuck is this? Widows is her first movie. She was in like three, four episodes of TV shows, um three different TV shows. And then Widows, Bad Times at the El Royale, one episode of Boss Baby, an episode two episodes of Broad City.
00:02:52
Speaker
And then the Harriet movie. I never saw that. And she got it like, did she get an Oscar nomination or something for like the soundtrack? I think, did she also get an acting one? Yeah, lead actress.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah, then the outsider, chaos walking, that was like a COVID thing, so I don't hold that against her. Yeah, no one kind is counting that, but- Robert Zemeckis' Pinocchio, I hold that against her. I i saw that movie. i I only other- I did too, unfortunately. I did not remember her being the Blue Fairy. Wicked Part 1, 10 upcoming projects. um Yeah, she's got a pretty great track record. um I'd say.
Ariana Grande's Music & Acting Journey
00:03:38
Speaker
Also- Most talented people. And ah she's probably doing a lot of shit outside of ah movies too. Right, this is just like what uncultured swine like you and me. see i i I know nothing about the theater.
00:03:51
Speaker
i yeah we're the dumb ones my regrets reference wasn't shit no i thought that was cool that is adolescent like much like the regrets themselves kind of meta in that way i'm gonna just put it back in my diaper just do do who knew Wicked would be the Regrets episode. Let's not get into it. Nickelodeon Ariana Grande. That's where she's from, right? My intro to her was Victorious. um i I actually enjoyed that show. Over the pandemic I rewatched Victorious um just to see if it held up and it was kind of like a comfort watch. um I know the Dan Harmon and like that documentary shit like came out but
00:04:41
Speaker
I mean, does that mean I should hate Ariana Grande for it? what Is that her name Ariana Grande? Am I getting it right? It's Ariana Vente. I've said it so many times, off mic and on mic, that I like feel like I'm saying the wrong name now.
00:05:01
Speaker
She performed a song for the video game, the quarry. No, what would, I did not watch that Nick show. I was kind of all already, wait.
00:05:13
Speaker
Yeah, you're a little older than I am. That's like the iCarly era of... Right, like I was aware of those shows, but didn't watch them. None of the stuff she's done, I ever really... I was just aware of her as this like big pop star.
Pop Music & Personal Tastes
00:05:29
Speaker
The only thing ever music. I like some of her songs. I haven't really heard much of her stuff. i I just not as like... I'm not like close minded person. Like I try and I'm one of...
00:05:41
Speaker
listen to every kind of like I am with any other art like movies it's like I'll watch anything I just there's some kind of like natural reflexive aversion to some pop music some even if I haven't heard it I'm just like Well, that's too popular. It can't be that good. i I'm not even like having that thought, but I feel like that's like automatically what I'm doing as I'm like, I don't need to seek that out. It can't be, it's a pop thing, right? I'll introduce you to a few songs of hers that I think you might dig. Like Imperfect For You is kind of like a nice song with a weird vibe that came out. I want to say- I heard the song Popular. She sings that really well.
00:06:21
Speaker
Oh, from the wicked soundtrack. Yeah. Oh, is that what that's from? Dry or something. Tears don't cry. Something. Tears don't fall. Something. I forget. I'm getting the name. You're totally right. The eyes cry. idiot Yeah. No tears left to cry. Something like that. Literally, that's pretty good. Only other acting thing I saw her in was don't look up. which I just remembered she was in like a scene. I think I think she was marrying Kid Cudi in it.
00:06:49
Speaker
or something. I remember that she was in it. I don't remember much of the movie itself, but I remember that she was in it. The main thing I remember of Don't Look Up was the end. Like, I do like the end of that movie. I don't know. They finally looked up. The government was like, you're allowed to look up now. No, the movie was an allegory for how Trump was going to pull up burns and stop people from being able to like look at the sun. Mm hmm. Which is kind of a smart people shouldn't be looking at the sun.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah, why would you look right at it? that When that eclipse was happening, people were like, oh, well, we have these special eclipse glasses we can look at. I'm like, I'm not falling for that. You guys are all gonna look at the sun and go crazy. It's gonna be like a zombie outbreak. Everyone's like lost their minds because they looked at the eclipse sun. with With the eclipse glasses? The eclipse glasses like magnify. The eclipse glasses like, I'm on to gonna take our eyes.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, see? No, i i'm I'm hip to it. yeah i'm That's only sunglasses I'm putting on are the They Live sunglasses.
Political Themes in Movies: Wicked & More
00:08:00
Speaker
So we can see the truth. Anyway, it's been our wicked episode. We enjoyed it. radars yeah um I mean, we might get a little political in this episode. I don't know. We could. This is the episode to get political on.
00:08:17
Speaker
I feel like every subsequent movie we've done this month, and it i believe wasn't even a planned thing. I'm like, I'm just, I don't think I'm reading into it because Conclave is literally about an election. A heretic, yeah, that's definitely, I mean, religion unfortunately religion is politics, so like that is a political movie. um And yeah, what else did we cover this month?
00:08:41
Speaker
ah Uh, Heretic Conclave? I don't remember. Is that it? My dogs are going fucking wild. I'm sorry listeners. I don't know that that's getting picked up at all.
00:08:53
Speaker
Yeah, it probably isn't. Oh, juror number two. I mean, kind of. It's about the legal system. Yeah. All right. So wicked prequel to Wizard of Oz. um Do you like Wizard of Oz? What's your relationship to that movie? Oh, oh yes. Spoilers. Good yellow brick road, of course. sorry ah Spoilers for the Wizard of Oz or for the Wiz or for Wicked.
00:09:22
Speaker
I really like, like that's one of those movies shown to me at a young age. Like some movies, especially ones that are like revered as like classics or like, this is important. If I feel like it was like kind of forced on me younger, I'm like, I don't know. Like I was shown forced gump too many times when I was younger and it made me hate, hate it. But, but like I.
The Wizard of Oz: Legacy & Impact
00:09:46
Speaker
So Pearl Harbor was for me. Yeah, I saw that too many times as a kid. I think that's just a bad movie. Yeah. Yeah. I with Wizard of Oz, though, I straight up love like I it was it was just like so ah man me not knowing anything about any of the books or any other stuff connected. You know, I was I was like, this is so imaginative and like the the The musical part of it was almost like secondary because I do like quite a few musicals, but I don't think I had like developed like the taste for that at that time. You kind of forget it's a musical. Right. At least for me. I didn't remember it as a musical until like, I mean, it's like, Oh, they fall like because I even have things stuck in my head. Like follow the yellow, big robe. I'm not thinking of it like a song, you know, it's like, like, Oh, there's their follow. Follow the big robe.
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah, it almost feels like dialogue within the movie as opposed to like actual musical numbers. But yeah, I watched The Wizard of Oz after seeing Wicked ah for the first time a couple days ago. And it was like, it's just such a nice like movie, you know, it was like late at night, I was kind of feeling not like off but just like it was very like somber feeling you know it's winter it's cold outside it had been like snowing the past couple of days and i was just like locked inside and i threw it on because i couldn't stop thinking about wicked and
00:11:17
Speaker
I was like, yeah, this movie is like, it's a great Christmas movie. It it feels like something you should put on with your family at Thanksgiving. Like around the house. Like I like I know people who like they're like every year for Christmas, they watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy. They're like, that's a holiday movie. ah I feel like that that's I mean, this is obviously not on that same scale, but I probably was the first fantasy movie I saw now that I'm thinking of it. Like, like, what what would I've seen before? it was Star Wars. Well, it's kind of like a space fantasy. I consider Star Wars. No, no, it it is. It is. I. yeah I just wanted to make a smart person voice. ah The Phantom Menace was your first fantasy. Yeah, I watched them in order, the order he intended.
00:12:06
Speaker
uh I might have seen this before Wizard of Oz before Star Wars honestly um but yeah and I and like especially watching it ah later like not as a kid it still holds up it's one of those like older movies like there's a lot of classics that like I feel like get the reputation of like that's gonna be like homework to watch that and it's like no this is actually like extremely watchable and highly entertaining like I would throw like things like Citizen Kane in there like with that it's like oh no this this movie probably like fucking played with a crowd like this is this is like a pretty propulsive movie
00:12:44
Speaker
Wizard of Oz um actually wasn't like a financial success. I think when it first came out, a lot of people didn't go to see it. Um, from what I heard actually found its life. Like when it started playing on TV and like through like reruns and stuff like that, that's when it like became the classic that it is. So like, I wonder how it did play in front of a because i was if people were like, this is, we're about to go to war right too much. Well, because I always think of the moment like that has to be one of the most iconic film moments ever when she opens the door and it like goes from black and white to color. Like what, how did people in the thirties react to that? Because like, did you ever hear how they did that?
00:13:27
Speaker
They filmed the black and white part in color or something? They ah we so they painted um Judy Garland's entire back like the sepia tone kind of color. That was all paint. Yeah, as she's walking out the door, transitioning. That's so cool. Yeah, it is pretty cool. and then watching it the other day I like didn't stay awake for the ah how they made the tornado but I kind of wish I got to watch that I intended to watch the wicked stage play to before we did this but then like I got eager and was like let's record I mean I'm almost on that same page of like one I want to go and just listen to the musical or watch musicals now but
00:14:08
Speaker
I was kind of like I like before we started I was looking up I did not realize how many like actual books just from like the original author like I know like a lot of long-running franchises or things like ah other authors can you know like how there's way more Dune books not written by Frank Herbert ah at this point but there's like so many written by the original dude of for Wizard of Oz, I'm like, should I check these out? Because the lore is kind of interesting. I was curious about points from, like I know this is obviously a you know a musical, but I'm like, was the musical based off of anything that had previously been written? Because there was a lot of interesting like world building like ideas in there. i'm like Did they like take a nugget of something and then like expand on on that for this or something?
Wicked's World-Building & Audience Interaction
00:14:56
Speaker
i also this is a kind of like in the same ballpark of what you were talking about but i don't want to like lose this thought watching the wizard of oz um the music almost like them going into musical numbers when they're in oz almost feels like the mute well it is it's diegetic in a lot of the moments No, the characters are singing and it's like known that they are singing. But what were you but communicate in song and wicked to like that's actually like when they're breaking down the song numbers, like that's them really doing that in the world of the movie. It's nows not like in their heads. Yeah. Like how musicals kind of like portray where it's like, oh, that was like a fantasy or or sometimes i split the difference and be like, well, how much of that was the real thing or how much was the fantasy? No, like I like that. It's like this is a world.
00:15:48
Speaker
that like music is basically a language like yeah that that that's like how i ah it's it's kind of like joker folly i do which isn't really a musical it's just like when when when their emotions just get so strong they just like burst in into song there's no way for them to express themselves that's not a musical that's not what musicals are yeah yeah But i just I just thought that was so cool. It wasn't a realization I had until I rewatched The Wizard of Oz. it's just i mean I feel like I i don't know if like i don't know fully like fully how you feel about the movie, but I think it's safe to say Wizard of Oz and Wicked. i just I'm fucking on board with ah these two. ah there's like
00:16:34
Speaker
Criticisms I have of wicked that like don't that that are forgivable Criticisms like I have notes, but they're not like deal-breakers or anything cause this movie just feels so good And and I do have the preface of like I probably had the best possible experience that I could have yeah we'll talk we saw it and we'll get into that a little more later, but like like I think it's a testament to this movie that one, not only would I go see it again, but that I, I still think so highly of it because the actual theater experience was like maybe the worst theater experience. I want to talk about the theater experience really quick.
00:17:12
Speaker
Pre spoiler section. Yeah, I guess was that that'll probably color like your opinion going. Yeah. a lot of people Real negative here. If people but like they'll be like, oh, Doug had to go through this and this is how he got to understand. Yeah. ah Because it it was. It must have been worse for you because I was I had seen it already. So I was able to be like, OK, I can sit through this. But I was putting myself in your shoes so many times. And I was like, I want to throw my icy. these Especially during like The emote, I don't want to say quieter because it's a musical so it feels weird to say that it's but there are actual quiet like more intimate moments between characters within musical numbers like sometimes the like dancing or music will pause and like characters will be having this moment then behind me you just hear this
00:18:01
Speaker
in cackling and like like talking about whatever the fuck they're talking and endless wrestling wrestling of their chain purses or whatever the fuck they had yeah i thought they were going to choke me with something at some point it sounded like they were like whipping out like a chain like they were go they probably were looking for something and they got I got something in here little that we can use against them. Yeah. ah yeah they I mean, it was pretty dark. i they If they were teenagers, they couldn't have been older than freshmen. i The actual younger kids were better because there were kids that were maybe like eight or something in in the theater.
00:18:38
Speaker
and you'd occasionally hear something from them, but they were- They weren't getting rowdier during popular and, uh, defying gravity. Defying gravity, the kids were, like, off the leash. I looked behind us and some kids were full on standing up and dancing. I mean, they- they- they- Which is cool. I didn't know. No, I like that level. That happened when I saw The Greatest Showman. One girl was, like, going fucking buck wild around in front of me with her dad just sitting there completely still, but I was like, yeah, you go, dad. Bring your daughter to see The Greatest Showman. I'm- I'm down for...
00:19:07
Speaker
ah having that those kind of reactions to a musical because like it it feels more sincere and like almost spontaneous. like like like Yeah, I don't i don't believe it that those kids were just doing that for like the one dancing or whatever. like I think they probably just got swept up and they're like, fuck, I'm getting on my feet. Yeah, I mean, the one kid's popular, you could tell, it seemed like they couldn't help themselves but to sing the pop. you And the applause at the end did also feel spontaneous. Yeah, the first time I saw it, too, it got applause. ah People like loved it. They were chatting it up just like. And it's not it's not like I was surprised, but I was like someone almost spoiled the second part for me. They like the people behind me my first time, like they were like immediately when the credits started rolling, they were like, So what happens in part two, then the other guy just started going into it. And I was like, well, I have to move seats now. And so I moved so I could like enjoy the music and the credits. Like people are allowed to process, enjoy these things, however they want, especially like, yeah, the musical is really popular. It's been around for a while. I'm the kind of guy who like, once I lock into a version of a thing, I don't want it spoiled until I see the rest of like, until I see part two, I don't want to hear shit about
00:20:22
Speaker
Wicked, you know, like other versions of of of wicked and what happens kind of like similarly, like once I started watching the invincible show, I, you know, friends were like starting the comic and I was like, that does sound tempting. There's a lot of time in between seasons. Should I start the comic? But I was like, no, because I won't be able to stop myself at the point where the show is. And if I kept going, I kind of want to learn this stuff with the show. yeah So, so I'm i'm just going to wait. I can see that. I might watch the Wicked stage play um just because I want to I want to hear all the music. I'm so like in a musical mode and I like I want more Wicked and right now I'm trying to I'm going to try and satiate it with a bunch of other musicals that I've already experienced and hopefully watch some new musicals leading up to Christmas. So listeners, if you have musical recs, send them in.
00:21:16
Speaker
Yes. Send them in. We were already off mic talking about a few different ones. If you write us a five star review with a musical recommendation, we'll, we'll do it. Yeah. We'll do it in some capacity. Um, but yeah. Oh, did you want to talk about the, the rowdiness of the kids? I don't want to give them too much space because I, I, I did like this movie and I want to like talk about the, the things that I, cause it's not like the movie was making me uh upset you know it was i was upset that i had to leave to get sick because because like an hour or so in i was like this is a three-hour movie i i don't know how long i'm gonna put up with this so i did like go to get some someone ah they did not do anything they just said like
00:22:00
Speaker
Can you please be quiet? And then they left. and Yeah. I heard what he said. You walked up to them because you were right behind the guy or he was right behind you yeah when you guys came back in the theater behind me. Yeah. Which it's like, do you come on, like work on your timing a fucking little bit. Right. Because he was trying to still be anonymous when he said he was like, someone said he like looked at you and was like, somebody said he's like pointing at me. Yeah. It was like, I don't let them know it was me. You don't have to like, this is not witness protection. Like I don't care. Like I i told them I was going to get someone. Did it feel tense throughout the movie for you after that? Uh, kind of because they kept leaving and coming back. I was, I didn't understand. I started, I was pretty close to saying something like, uh, but I like.
00:22:52
Speaker
I still don't get what they're doing. I would have stood up, I think. I had something prepared. I was going to stand up and like look right at them and like go into fucking like teacher mode. And I knew there was going to be kids, so swearing is what would turn other people against me. So I was going to say either shut up or get out of the theater. But I was going to say it like super loud. like I was going to try and... i mean i was gonna go into a mode i was like prepared i'm like mentally i'm about to go here but i'd like pulled myself back because i'm like i don't want to ruin this movie for other people right like and that's i don't want to be that guy that's why after the first time like a horror movie maybe i would have done it
00:23:40
Speaker
Yeah. like That was why after the first attempt at getting someone, I was like, well, I don't want to keep leaving because I'm liking the movie and I don't want to miss more of it. Apparently, they said the manager afterwards. I had to her credit, ah she you know was sympathetic and you know comped. Our like next movie is is on on the house.
00:24:01
Speaker
but like she was like, Oh, I understand you wouldn't want to leave the movie, you can just like call the the front and then we'll, you know, we would have sent someone to we are are policies first of warning and then we kicked them out was like, so you want me to you tell me to use my phone during the movie, which a thing I think I abhor and look down upon people who do it. It's it's a not just texting. Like if there was a number where I could just like text the front line, like behind us in row H, rowdy teenagers, they've already been warned or something like, and then I could just put in their app.
00:24:36
Speaker
right go to like theater pick your theater number you know yeah there should be a snitch function in the Marcus app and for any theater basically I'm you know ah i'm I'm a ah pretty left-leaning guy not like a call the police kind of guy like what I wanted crack down on people, accepted movie theaters, I become a fascist. I'm like, you need to be quiet, you need to put your phone away and respect. this It's like, it's the closest thing I have to religion is the movie theaters. Like, this is a church. Wouldn't it be crazy if we just fucking went off on people during Wicked of all? Yeah. ah That would be a fucking story. We would have been on the news. We were just the asshole. Yeah, I mean, this movie is so popular. And if it was a slow enough news day
00:25:24
Speaker
Can reasonably see that if we just ruin the movie? I don't know how people in their row couldn't have said something. I was like, obviously it's most annoying to us because they're right behind us, but they weren't whispering at like, like I get that, like during a movie, if you're a friend right next to you, like, because we will comment, make little jokes or whatever to each other. But i but you talking made me talk a less. I was like I'm mad at them and I can't be a hypocrite right it's it's like making and it's so funny that every time that we did lean in to say something they came back it would been like i like it top on that it was a time when they would have left and
00:26:03
Speaker
It was like, how did they know? we Yeah, I did notice they were like making comments. I don't know if it was that you or me, but they like kept saying like something about white boy, white boy. And I was like, are they talking about me right now? I didn't even yell at them. It's like Doug's the snitch. He's the white boy. the usher no I got was white, but that's funny if they were talking about me. I mean, I would have had something prepared for for that. This is like, yeah, fucking light skin bitch. My dad's black and my mom's.
00:26:36
Speaker
black and Cuban, so I'm black. So try again. Like, I don't know. I would have shut that down pretty quick. Uh, I, I, yeah, I just didn't want to engage with them anymore because I've just wanted to try and lock into the movie best I could. It just wicked doesn't feel like the time or place, you know, to have like that confrontation. it's just It was like a more adult movie. I was just hoping it would resolve itself because I was like, it didn't. yeah I was like, okay, surely this time, the 10th time they leave, so they've just gotten bored of the movie or something. theyre I don't know why they would need to leave so often. And it's like they would like leave, then both, they would both leave, then both come back seconds later, make a shitload of noise like they were getting something.
00:27:23
Speaker
then leave again be gone for like five to ten minutes and then just come back and when they come back just make noises the whole time they were back and it would just be that cycle like every 20 or 30 minutes and one of the times they would keep making a trip back again and when i went to the bathroom i saw them just running around the hallways fucking around and like laughing and shit i mean I guess I shouldn't say there were two. I was like, they no way they could be drinking that young. I was like, well, proud they I don't know. they they Not that someone has to be on something to like act act a fool or have no sense and in
Theater Etiquette & Audience Behavior
00:28:01
Speaker
public. But the balls, and it was a pecked theater, but like the balls you have to have to like yeah be that much of an asshole openly and like not care. And you've had someone yell at you and a theater employee come and talk to you. like
00:28:17
Speaker
it's crazy did you end like you're a very tall person yeah like you would be intimidating like if i saw you like in the dark just like shoot up knowing you were like pissed at me and that's i mean i was mad but that's like low great ah like internally i was really mad but i never want to go full like rage like that's just not No, not that kind of guy. Yeah, neither. I wouldn't say either of us are that kind of person. I'll yell at somebody though, but wicked isn't the place.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, it shouldn't be. I'll yell at some teenagers, though. An adult, like I'll go and like just talk to. you But if it's like some teenagers they've been talked to twice already, I'll go into like teacher mode. The guy who warned them didn't say that if we come back again, you're getting kicked out, right? like That was not even made clear to them. No, he was like totally spineless. like if that late i don't know like If that manager had been there, she probably would have done something. She didn't show up to I guess to like well like, later. That man, I don't know. I was like pretty angry or not even like super angry, but I was like ready to go hard for like a refund. But there was just something about like just talking to that manager when she, she was very personable when she was like, I get it. Kids these days, no discipline or whatever. She like said something where I was like,
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, you you get it. so You probably hate everybody here too. You know where you work. Yeah, I would not like i've I've been the kind of person like because I've loved movies. I've like, oh, man, working in a movie theater would would be so like I have this romanticized vision of it, even though it is just basically like a shitty retail job, like you're selling the popcorn in the tickets. But like I would never work in that theater specifically. It seems like the workplace on Earth.
00:30:14
Speaker
You'd have to be like you know stealing money or pulling some kind of schemes they like Tolerate working stealing money probably actively like on several drugs or something like I don't know It's yeah, it's crazy. Just it would have to be just like a hangout or a party the whole time. Like I could not take my job seriously. I would be having a Kevin Smith movie happen to me every shift because I love would not be into whatever's happening. there There are other theaters I would take seriously, that like that regal or like a nice theater or a music box. I'd be like, this is like an institute. And like those are like old theaters, you know, like they've been there for a while and stuff. It's like this is like.
00:30:56
Speaker
This is like a historical building. Yeah. but ah Anyway, I don't want it to go on too much longer about about those jokers. It's just that that's that was the environment. Joker's a different movie. Oh, sorry. i can i thought I think I call all musical jokers now. Yeah. i just I assume that this left that much of an impression. Yeah, it did. um Yeah, i i just I just wanted to give context. I do wicked more than Folly would do. Let's start there.
00:31:25
Speaker
Follow you, dude, I guess I had a better theater experience just because there was no one there, right? Was it just us? Who else was? I was eating next to you. I can be a loud eater. No, you were fine. There might've been one. I was probably making a mess all over myself. You were like, I'm sitting next to a child. He should be wearing a bib right now. That was your theater experience. No, I had good theater. He's barbecue sauce all over his hoodie. What is he doing? That was your inner monologue.
00:31:54
Speaker
I, as a defender of, I'm basically more of a fan of Joker, Folly, a dude's ethos more than the movie specific movie stuff itself, even though there are like a couple like good performance moments I like, but like as a musical, I found it to be pretty lethargic and and kind of like lazy in some regards. So like, I definitely,
00:32:20
Speaker
was the opposite of that and in Wicked. Wicked's like very energetic. It's lively. It's called it's colorful. like i was actually surprised like I will say that this is there's been multiple movies this year that have had like kind of shit, even even though their ads are ever present everywhere. like They clearly put money into the ad campaign. I was like,
00:32:41
Speaker
the actual advertising itself is kind of dog shit. I would say Wicked, the trailers have done it a disservice, but then also what was the other? Oh, Transformers 1 looked like so bad in the trailers. I was like, I don't, that's, that looks like as bad as Super Mario or worse. Like,
00:33:01
Speaker
There's a lot of movies I feel like I've gone into this year with that same feeling where I'm like, the trailer looked like shit. My old ass was one where I was like, the trailer for this just looked like shit, but I really enjoyed that. Some things I get like have concepts where it's like, well, how would you advertise that? Cause like I kind of sympathize with heretic.
00:33:18
Speaker
where it's like well you want to give as little away as possible for something like that but you still want to entice a horror crowd I guess you know like like you kind of have to basically lie about what the movie is to like get people to see that yeah uh but yeah I I really really I had you know minus that really awful and stuff happening behind me.
Musicals in Cinema: Wicked vs. Others
00:33:47
Speaker
I think this is a good time, like especially if you have a good pack theater. I bet this would be great. like If people were, multiple people dancing, not not just kids dancing in the aisles or dancing or singing, even if those girls were just singing along to the song, I would be like, I get it. like you know like You're just getting swept up or something.
00:34:09
Speaker
I might go to the sing-along version of this just to see what it's like. I've never been to like a screening like that. Neither have I. I would be very interested. Yeah, like I've never done you know like music box every... I feel like it's not just Halloween. I feel like they're always showing Rocky Horror. like I'm pretty sure people sing along at that. There's like an interactive quality. I've never been to that. yeah I felt like I heard people start to sing Defying Gravity. Spoilers for the movie Defying Gravity is in this movie. Holy shit.
00:34:41
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to tell what is a spoiler and what is. All right, because it's like the musical is so popular. I'm going to like present it with the same. I'm going to assume our average listener is as dumb as me. and Does it does it? A lot of musical theater. if We could just talk about it like it's a movie outside of and just write the play even existing. Right. Because like i there we would like the Deadpool and Wolverine.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah. And these are like actually very similar movies. We'll talk about that in a little bit. deadpoine in yeah ah But I, I, yeah, normally we default to like, if it's in the trailer, it's not really a spoiler, even though some trailers give way too much away. So I feel like I'm pretty much ready to go to spoilers now though. Like I've, I've already said said said my piece that I I want to see this again because I enjoyed it enough even with that huge asterisk by it that it's like yeah this is obviously gonna hit for if if if I was feeling something with those fucking hags behind me that then like I think I think in good environment that I
00:35:54
Speaker
could have some of because it it sucks like I had known going in like you told me at the end you you started tearing up but there were moments throughout where I was like I that's the only part I told you about but there's more moments I teared up like at the dance that I had like just gotten out of the theater and so I was just like yeah that that was very reaction where I was like final note just like hit me to the point where I was like like taken back like I like it hit me in like the back of my throat where I immediately got choked up and it happened again to this time that final note hit me in the back of the throat not as strong but it like the first time I like caught me off guard so much and it's like I just started crying and it was like there were moments man where I got caught off guard emotionally uh but then it It was overtaken by extreme anger that I wasn't able to like enjoy this in a more pure way. I was like, yeah you're ruining this for me. yeah I saw a preview screen. I was with people who like love the musical. I wouldn't have been surprised if they started singing. I saw people in their chairs like dancing around a little bit um the first time I had seen it. um
00:37:08
Speaker
I don't know, I don't know if I, I forgot if I went into my like full initial thoughts, but I'll just like knock it out real quick before it happened in the spoilers. Like, I think it's like pretty clear, like I enjoy this movie. Oh, I thought you hated it. Yeah, I know. You were like blowing raspberries all the time. Yeah, my 4.5 star review was ironic. And then I reviewed a Wizard of Oz one star and it just said, why isn't this wicked?
00:37:34
Speaker
you know It's not wicked, but ah you're still holding on. Kyle Ren should be in. Adam Driver should play Oz, or the Wizard of Oz.
00:37:51
Speaker
Why does he have to be older? Right. Because like we don't have to make the ages perfectly line up with wiz I don't know how many years before Wizard of Oz this would be. But like I was curious, to like, like I was like, Jeff Goldblum feel like he got the part because they're like, well, obviously the wizard would be this type of guy. Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
Uh, which it's not like bad casting, but I was curious about this like super obvious. It was too obvious. that That was like you just bring him to do the Jeff Goldblum thing. Yeah. And it was like a very like Jeff Goldblum light, which I did kind of appreciate. I was like, he's very tolerable um and well you didn't do it in spoilers, but they do kind of flip the Jeff Goldblum thing. i even say Yeah, I do like that. And ah so.
00:38:41
Speaker
I, after I got used to the recasting, I was like, whoa, it's not James Franco. That's a little jarring. But, you know, I was able to, just no, but I, I, I, not you said that Adam Driver as, Oh, that's another musical. I need to see a net. Have you seen a net? No, I forgot about that checks covering it too. So I should, uh, I should get on that. I should see, we should watch a net.
00:39:05
Speaker
Um, but yeah I thought Adam, I was like, yeah, someone who's like interesting looking because i I think the performance in them having a take is better than like, again, like ah maybe this is more important to other people. I'm just not not for like pretty much any franchise. If you're like, well, canonically, does this line up with the lore? I'm going to knock the books out of your hand and shove you into a locker because I need to go back to school nerd.
00:39:31
Speaker
yeah knock the glasses off your face and step on them because I'm like just make the movie that I'm watching good. Like I saw people posting this thing about James Gunn had a recent interview where he was saying about like someone was asking like how he's gonna handle canon and and he uh he's like well this may surprise some of you guys none of it's real and then like so so like some fans got upset at that like oh wow this is really embarrassing for DC I was like This is good that he's having this attitude. Like you should come from a story first perspective and not that like, well, the the fans must be there. The franchise that they grew up with, we have to make sure that this lines up perfectly, you know, like. Yeah, no, I agree. But I'm fucking wicked. ah Part one.
00:40:23
Speaker
Part one. Yeah spoilers. That's the biggest spoiler. I think we'll reveal it is apart You don't see that in in the ads but in the open the credits like when the title shows it does say part one Yeah, I feel like Dune did that too, right? because it did none of the do Come out until you saw it in the movie for the first time so like yeah if you're not like to tapped in like us or, or something. Like if you're just like, huh, dude, I like sand. I guess I'll see what this is about. Yeah. Do you like part one? Huh? Yeah. But so like I went into wicked, like not really, you and I kind of had the same feelings. I don't remember if we reacted to the trailer. I think we did. And we just kind of like tore it apart. One of the earlier ones, like case i the trailers were bad. Like I yeah don't think this was advertised well.
00:41:07
Speaker
But so like Wednesday I had gotten off of work and I was like, I had already heard early buzz about Wicked and I was like, this can't be right. Everybody should be hating this. This movie looks awful. And I looked, I wanted to see something on Wednesday, anything. I didn't know what I was going to pick. I was leaning towards red one. And then I saw there was an early Wicked screening and I was like, okay, cool. Use my A-list. Got that shit. And.
00:41:33
Speaker
like I think by the second musical number because I was fighting against the movie at first like you know the beginning's happening there's a lot of shit going on we'll get into it but I was just like not like fully on board but yeah by the second musical number I was like I think I'm like sold on this I'm really digging the the music and it was It kind of came at the right time. I didn't realize how much I like needed a musical right now. like It's cold outside. It's kind of like depressing winters here. you know It's nice like my birthday and Thanksgiving are coming up, but it's like it's getting dark earlier. It's like naturally just like a bit like... you know
00:42:18
Speaker
bit sadder feeling so it was like kind of nice to like walk in and just like out of nowhere be uplifted by a movie i was expecting to like hate for three hours initially even though i was like okay this has to be like popular for a reason um but it's like I don't know. So I walked away just like by the end of it, like really moved and taken back. And like, you know, I had been brought to tears a few times and the almost three hour experience like flew by for me and, uh, It became a really like special and memorable experience and ah I downloaded all of the songs from, you know, the first half of the play's soundtrack because the movie's version wasn't available and started familiarizing myself with those and fell in love with those versions of the songs and it just been jamming to them and now I have this like,
00:43:15
Speaker
musical itch that I like want to scratch so bad and like, I'm like, fuck, I want to be moved to tears by the power of music and cinema all in one again. And it's like, uh, I just musicals, like the right ones really work for me. And I was caught off guard by this being the right one. I love, I love musicals and I'm glad that seemingly that one is going to be doing well for the first time since I mean maybe if they hadn't been the pandemic I think West Side Story could have like definitely done better and made like more of an impact. If that came out in 2019 because that came out in 2021 yeah if it came out in 2019 I know it wouldn't have been ready by them but if it for some reason it did
00:43:58
Speaker
I feel like a pre-COVID world, that movie would have like just blown the fucking doors off the box office. People weren't really even going- Like after La La Land? Yeah. People weren't really back at theaters in like a full way at that, except for Spider-Man. Like that was the same month as like No Way Home, I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. So people will come out for Spider-Man, but otherwise, like it wasn't, people were going to the movies.
00:44:24
Speaker
That's kind of fucked up. So yeah, La La Land would have been the last time that a musical came out and actually made that kind of impact. So, I mean, I was shocked and skeptical of not just the review, the positive reviews, but all these Oscar short lists from Variety and all these... It was like they were putting Wicked on. I was like, the movie's not even out yet. I'm like, who's seen this? How do we know? It almost felt like it was being forced on us. I was like, hold on. yeah i kept seeing that too i was like the studio must be like you guys are paying for us yeah who's on payola and how can i get up i mean part of it again i will sell out so yeah pay us you're not even paying us and we're giving this a good review what are you doing universally i'm gonna temper what are we doing yeah i'm gonna temper the positives to make sure that
00:45:16
Speaker
there's a noticeable increase once I'm paid. So I'm like even more effusive about movies. I'll be like, yeah, it was pretty good. That's like me now. But then once you pay me, I'm like, this is the best movie ever. Yeah. Or one of us will be like positive and the other will be negative. And it's like, OK, you have to pay us if you want two positive reviews. Right. yeah It's kind of like protection racket, you know, like you're going to, it's a beautiful business you got here. um A nice movie. Be ashamed if someone were to leave a bad review on letterbox. Yeah. ah We're just going to bring down the rotten tomatoes score.
00:45:53
Speaker
That's that's the only reason I want to get certified just like tank scores and then to bring up the scores of the Disney movies I'm being paid the show for oo this does have a wild like tomato mean it was like 99% and 92% fake I'm like no so fake i and at a certain point I was like okay this and this still might be the case but i was like it's people like it's this movie's audience they're seeing it it's the five nights at freddy's thing it's like 100 who would like this movie to sing and maybe that's the case and there's the occasional like film fan like us who sing and who's like
00:46:36
Speaker
I love musicals and they're falling in love with it too. Or maybe people like us are the reason why there's a small like 8% difference from 92 to 100.
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, like I mean... Maybe it's people like us who are to blame for that. Who knows, but... yeah I just didn't know if audiences were like open to the idea of... me like like I get people being turned off by Falia do a movie that's actively like ah flicking you in the ear and like kicking you in the nuts while you're watching it. And you even someone like me who likes that movie was like, i Like what you're doing. Stop hitting me. like not nope Like hits me over the head with like a garbage can. Yeah. It's giving you McDonald's then calling you a pig for enjoying McDonald's. Yeah. Uh, but, but so that makes sense that people be turned off by that. But like, uh, then it's also telling you about the McDonald's you just ate the whole time. Like, do you guys remember? Let's flashback to that.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah, you remember how good that McDonald's tasty fucking pig. That's Joker folly and just sick fuck. Yeah. But but like none of the in probably the reason could be that we've had a lot of like not great ones. Like I did not hear any good things about the Mean Girls movie. Sorry if that movie is actually secretly cool. I'll probably never know. ah But I don't think anyone I haven't heard anyone really talk positively about it.
00:48:11
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff like ones like that that like have come and gone. So I have a day and date release or am I wrong? Not not Mean Girls, but like other stuff like In the Heights was like theater theater. That was when HBO was still doing the like same day like that. That definitely ah heard it. And I think people were like Lin-Manuel Miranda out like like the the Hamilton of train had been going for so long and so strong and he was like doing like every other movie like every other movie was like written the music was written by him and I like and that kind of hurt tick tick boom a little bit a movie that I love that movie is great and I it's also because it's only like one out of ten Netflix movies actually exist and like it didn't it didn't make the cut for whatever
00:49:03
Speaker
Netflix movie actually counted that year cuz I came out on my birthday. Oh damn Yeah, I was supposed to see House of Gucci that night But I didn't end up going the person who I was supposed to go with bailed on me So I watched a tick tick boom twice. I'd like loved it so much It rules. It was like a gift to me from Lin-Manuel Miranda himself I think in Andrew Garfield I get and Vanessa Hudgens I get people being annoyed by him as like a persona kind of like he He almost seems like every negative stereotype about like a theater nerd like cranked almost like almost like intent. Well, it's like he's like the Joker. He's like that. He's like he's like twisted. He's a sick fucking wicked. He's playing it up. But man, I think he's a good song. Right. Like I think like I don't. Most of the things I've heard with it, he's done like the music for like even fucking Moana. Right. He wrote Moana. Right. Like he writes bangers. So Moana and Moana.
00:50:01
Speaker
Morana is the spin-off that The Rock will also be in. He's gonna have another hit one day, guys. Maybe. Moana 2? We'll see. yeah like milant I love the Moana song. They're like, where you are.
00:50:15
Speaker
that song rules. He also has a new, he has like some kind of concept album where it's like, if the Warriors had been a musical, this these are the songs for it. And like, you had thrown out this theory too of like, oh, is he maybe like, is this the dry run? And is he like, maybe gonna try and get like an actual Warriors musical? I mean, honestly, when I first heard it, I was like, that's wild. But then I was like,
00:50:42
Speaker
That's like the most vibrant, gay, gang movie ever. Like the multicolored gangs running around there's and stuff. They have like painted faces and stuff. I think you could do a Warriors musical. I'm i'm really interested to hear like what the songs are like on that album. Hell yeah.
00:51:01
Speaker
I don't, this movie has nothing to do with Lin-Manuel Miranda. I just, he's part of the musical lineage, like current contemporary musical scene. So like, I guess that's where I was just kind of tracking of like where we've been with musicals lately.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah, he's yeah, he's had a big influence on probably yeah a lot of composers nowadays too. Yeah, like if this is probably the way a lot of like musicals are executed are influenced by Hamilton fucking his work in Moana like Pixar is probably going to use the shit out of him again. I i don't know why they wouldn't. I mean, yeah, yeah, they probably are.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah. Is he coming back from one or two? We can't get into that. Well, stay tuned from a lot to review reviewing that next. I'm not rushing out to it. I'm comes out on my birthday. I don't know that I've said this on Mike. I'm just kind of. Not actively, but hoping for a campaign of all the rock stuff fails until his 24 movie with Ben Safdie. And then that does so well that that gives him the message of like, do real movies like. Yeah.
00:52:07
Speaker
Hey, what if you acted? would remember You kind of, you know, I'm not going to say your performance in Southland Tales or even was the Michael Bay movie with Mark Wahlberg where they're the dumb criminals. Oh, Pain and Gain. Pain and Gain. I'm not going to say those were like the best performances ever, but he's doing a thing. Like he's not just playing the rock, the coolest guy ever. Like he's like a fucking good loser goofball in ah Pain and Gain. And it's like so funny.
00:52:34
Speaker
Yeah, um just give him just wait for it. He's gonna have a whole nother set of failures. Then he's gonna show his dick on screen. Oh my god. I can't wait. Then that's gonna be the story is little. Yeah, it's gonna be so small like like like you're already expecting small from the steroids, but it's gonna be like smaller. It's gonna surprise you how small it is.
00:52:58
Speaker
That's what the headlines will refer to like surprisingly small.
Wicked's Narrative & Character Analysis
00:53:04
Speaker
Oh, good one. Yeah, so we often destroy them. Yeah, let's do it.
00:53:50
Speaker
they should have they should have had with songs. Now we can like, get into it, you know, we can sing without being worried about spoilers.
00:54:01
Speaker
Yeah, being suppressed by the main... Did I miss... Okay, so... It's like one song. Was it when... ah everything everywhere. Michelle, when I saw what I call an actor by their movie, by the way, I was like, I'm not, I i love him hunting in Venice.
00:54:28
Speaker
she's like five minutes to the south She gets pushed off a ledge. Yeah, God. Spoilers for hunting in Venice. She's not really in it. It's a movie I talked through the whole time. It was an empty theater, though.
00:54:40
Speaker
I've of the pro movies that I've seen. I did like that one the best. ah It's only one I've seen. Kenneth Ronald should have been in this. Get him in here. He could have had as pro. He has the mustache. and He's like, I'm here to solve a murder. I was going to say is his character in Tenet. Oh, he said or he's doing a Russian accent. He's like, hey.
00:55:00
Speaker
i am an evil russian that's not even what sound no thing ah non don toated load that's gonna be the whole sp section just me so was that so so so of michelle michelle yo song was the one i missed ah She like doesn't really have a song. She like sings a couple lines. Because then when I came back, Cynthia Ervo was like at the edge of this desert cliff singing about wanting to meet the wizard. So they have a conversation and then she's like, once around the riverbed. No, I forgot how ah her song goes. But um she...
00:55:37
Speaker
yeah she's talking about meeting the wizard and part of her song is like contemplating about him like maybe like changing her skin color to not green anymore and then she's like kind of you know snaps out of that then goes back into her song about meeting the wizard It's a song I'm like one of the songs I'm like I was the least familiar with believing the movie the first time but like watching it I'm so glad I saw it the second time because the songs that like didn't stand out the first song like that in popular like stood out way more I feel like that's every musical I see there might be like one or two songs where I'm like that's the song but then by like the 20th time I've seen Chicago I'm like well they're all bangers
00:56:20
Speaker
My biggest complaint is, uh, how long the movie goes without me. There's not and like um i wish it was pacing of it. Like in terms of like, sometimes there's ah multiple songs back to back. And then sometimes you're going for kind of a, what like, cause they have like plot things they want to get out of the way or having in songs too.
00:56:43
Speaker
right like in the middle of the song will stop and they're like well now there's a little bit of exposition then we're gonna have like a like a little mini action set piece and then the song starts like again during that because like dancing through uh life the uh like i've been listening to the play versions because the movie soundtrack didn't come out it's not it means opening weekend so it's It's out now. It wasn't out the Wednesday I had seen it. Oh right, you saw it earlier. um So I had been listening to the musical itself and like dancing through life, at least in the track on the CD, doesn't have the whole like hat dance and all of this stuff. So the movie has like longer, longer breaks of dialogue and exposition.
00:57:31
Speaker
Um, same thing with dancing through life. When, uh, she, when, um, Ariana Grande Galinda, she gives, uh, Alfalfa the hat. I forgot her name. What's her name?
00:57:44
Speaker
Elphaba. Elphaba, Alfie, yeah, Elphaba. When she gives her the witch hat in the musical, it's like very short. And in this movie, there's like a full dialogue scene with like other characters where she's like, it was my grandma's hat and stuff like that. So I don't know if like you listen back to the CD from this movie, if that's all going to be in there. I feel like it will be, though, because there's score from the music that's still playing, and usually you keep all of that in.
00:58:11
Speaker
ah But all of that to say is the movie drags out musical numbers with moments of dialogue a lot more than the play seems to. Which and it's not even ah an issue of, oh, the movie's too long or the movie drags. It's just that, like, if we're going to go this long, let's mostly be singing because i that that's like when the movie is really alive. And we've already, like we said at the top, like Wizard of Oz establishes this is like you know, kind of the main way people communicate, right, is like with song. So like, if you if, if it was basically like almost opera like and people were singing the entire time, I would not have been upset like I would have like you you couldn't even like the more emotional like plot stuff you couldn't
00:58:57
Speaker
put into a song or just like put some music behind it. You know, like I know. Do people hate that because it's not what the musical did, even though this isn't exactly what the musical did either, because it's longer and split into two parts. Right. I don't think they're making like radical changes, though, from my understanding. I wonder if people are happier because they're like, it's more of what I like, whereas me not being familiar with the musical, I'm like, go for more music. Right. More music. and Like, would would it be sacrilege to like Right more yeah, they didn't the Lion King. No one hated that Beyonce song Zero complaints there. No one hated anything about Beyonce's involvement with that That movie no one's complained about any of those movies. Yeah, they've been bulletproof Especially the Little Mermaid zero complaints launched launched launched at that thing ah Anyway
00:59:54
Speaker
I'm just clocking now that it was a goat, right? That was their one professor. A goat, Peter Dinklage. Yeah. Uh, is it, I mean, we don't have to get super in the weeds of it, but like, there's no, now when I say Munchkin, I'm talking referring to the race of people within the magical land of Oz. It feels like that should be a derogatory term.
01:00:16
Speaker
I think it probably is like if I was to just call a real little person that yeah I mean in the movie in the world of the movie it feels like like they look down on them on the munchkins yeah but it's like weird cuz like wheelchair girl is like talking about like Bach that's his name right Bach Yeah, and he's a dwarf or what is he munchkin? he's um he's a munch He's from munchkin land. Do they call him a munchkin? there Yeah, cuz she this but yeah, this is what I'm like about to ah get into she like when he's not around and she's talking to her sister. She refers to him as a munchkin boy. And I was like, so you don't call him that to his face though.
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah. I know. I was like, it seems racist. It's like, but it's like, well, he doesn't go around calling you wheelchair girl. Like, well, we do. We cut to him when he's alone. I don't know. Yeah. Good point. He might, you know, I retract my statement. yeah we he he's ah No, it's probably not the wheelchair thing. It's probably just that she's black. yeah Um, half black shoes.
01:01:22
Speaker
have Also, the girl who, uh, their mom, or the not the girl, the dude who her mom's banging, and he's s singing a song to her at the very beginning. I could be wrong. Is that Jeff Goldblum's voice? I, I was okay. because we sort of where' she's we We're jumping around, but like that was my initial thing of like, Oh, she was having an affair with the wizard. Cause it like, we don't see his face, but it sounds a hell of a lot like,
01:01:51
Speaker
Like, to me, I got the sense of like, when he specifically called for her, that it was, he had some fondness for her and that, you know, by proxy, her mom and the family. But like, but then it also made me wonder, is he, her, like, what's the timeline on when, uh, Elphaba came out? Like, could the wizard be her Dada?
01:02:18
Speaker
that's what i was wondering i'm looking what was the name of that song it's not no one mourns the wicked it's is it dear old shiz ariana grande's in that one so no she wasn't there yeah yeah would so is this song just not in the soundtrack it's too spoiler they couldn't put it out Uh, yeah, I guess we'll have to look deeper into that. yeah I don't want to look too deep in as far as like finding out from the rest of the musical, but I, I'm going to put money down now. And if you're a betting man, come make a bet with me that it won't be fair. You have to also not have seen the musical because that will be a fair bet. If you're like, ah Oh, I'll take your bet. It's like, okay, don't, don't fuck with me.
01:03:08
Speaker
I'm glad we kind of thought the same thing. This is where we're really digging into it now, an hour and five minutes into the episode. But um I would think I would, you know, obviously there's been so many like, oh, that that's your father twist. I think that would be like really good. Yeah. So they're just ripping off Star Wars. How could they? Star Wars, the most original series of all time. They're making Star Wars gay now.
01:03:38
Speaker
This is gay Star Wars. Is that what we're doing? Yeah. What? Kathleen Kennedy. I'm surprised she didn't produce this. Yeah, exactly. Woke. Just listen, just so you know, I don't think Wicked is gay Star Wars. And I only ironically say woke as a negative. If someone unironically says, uses the term woke and use it as like a pejorative, they're Probably not a smart person. like And also, is Wicked Gay Star Wars? No. Honestly, ah do the Norm McDonald meme after ah it was like a, ah what's the SNL bit? A Week in Update thing where he was making fun of the Tom Cruise vampire movie. He was like, could have been gayer. Like, i I was hoping, I mean, I knew that this, yeah, families would be here and this is like a PG movie. But I was like, we could have.
01:04:35
Speaker
suggested more I think that anytime ah someone comes out and they're like this is the gayest thing of this thing and every time I watch I'm like could have been gay or yeah like every time feel like the gayest version of this thing right like you know Yeah, I kept I kept waiting. I was like, oh, well, they're going to like he's going to like she's going to fall on top of her or something i have like some awkward thing. I mean, and they're too cowardly to go gay or though they're the I feel like the most we get is there's like a lingering look when they get to Emerald City and they're saying like like two friends, two best friend. Maybe that's just the realization that she's saying out loud, admitting to herself the best friend because that's like more than she like thought of her ass. But but they almost like look at each other like just friends. Right. We all agree. They look at the camera like they both say just friends and they shake hands. give the um you say
01:05:35
Speaker
We're really close roommates and that is it. Yes.
01:05:42
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean I obviously I'm not ah expecting blues the warmest color for a PG movie ah It's not even a real like complaint complaint. It's just something that we're like like you said anytime that a movie or a thing has that reaction or or Reputation like oh, this is gonna be so fucking gay. I'm going in ready and Like people read the Dune books are like, oh get ready, Fade Rotha, him and Paul. It's pretty gay. And when I saw the movie, I was like, well, yeah, they should have been gayer.
01:06:17
Speaker
ah Man. um Speaking of gay, I ah kind of want to bring a lady to this movie.
01:06:29
Speaker
so wait That a I was originally going to say date, just to make it ambiguous.
01:06:39
Speaker
But, uh, but you know, you had to, you had to clarify not, you had to do your Connor for real. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not gay.
01:06:49
Speaker
Buffalo wing. two love trump's saw predator fine watch but Um, wristwatch. Uh, I forgot what I was going to say. One arm, pushup, Leonard Skinner. Oh yeah. man I was like, yeah.
01:07:05
Speaker
ah watching this like the ah first time I was like I wish I had a lady I could like enjoy this with just like ever really like cheesy like musical I don't know I'm not gonna get into this on the podcast we'll save the sad talk for after but um Yeah, this movie... No, I think this would be be a good date movie as long as you don't have two banshees from hell behind you. Like, I think there's no reason why this wouldn't be a perfectly good date movie. And it would go down the same as, like, how you and I saw it. She would watch me eat food and then we would go see The Wizard of Oz. I went i wouldn't let her eat. Yeah, gross. Not on my dime.
01:07:51
Speaker
I'm kidding. God, this episode's off the rails. I'm not bringing the juice in this one. No, we have juice. we're we're We're just getting loopy because it's late and we had a silly kind of weird day, but i i think I think we're having a good discussion. We've touched on some interesting things about the Munchkin because I think ah this movie, and i'm i again, we're just we just know the movie, so we're talking about the movie, but I do know for a fact that a black woman does not play the Wicked Witch in the play. And I think that that does add a layer. Or in The Wizard of Oz.
01:08:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is this is a first for that. And I think her, you know, like obvious, there's the obvious like her being the outcast because of her green skin. For me, I kept it because of one, the green skin and she has all these powers. I mean, you said Dr. Sleep, but then I was like, oh, this is like X-Men, you know, like she she's like an outcast and and people are like trying to change. Like when when someone ah when Ariana Grande is like, well, I once I learned some spells, we can fix that skin. I was like, And everyone like cheers. She's so good. Her posse, especially Bo and Yang like yeah any only elevates this movie. He's very like a whole nother degree. He's the funniest. I was i was about to say, I think the funniest. I mean, yeah there there are some and I'm going to shout out. Like I said, I didn't really have any opinion about Ariana Grande, like negative or positive. I think she's
01:09:24
Speaker
Really good in this and like, but also very funny like like she a lot of her stuff brings a lot of the humor like Bowen Yang's part of her posse and but like the chemistry is real with with her in in Cynthia, which is why I wanted to be here but you know whatever it's yeah like when she isn't gonna tell her like her secret or whatever she's doing the but most-the-top pouting where she just like peaks back to see if she's there yeah I like her she doesn't like rush back she like delicately puts her head back down to like a sulk on the bed it's it's It's adorable, honestly. like And I don't mean that in a weird or negative way. It's like an adorable performance. She's like playing a witch who kind of looks like a fairy, and it is kind of like a fairy-like performance that she's giving. yeah It's very like magical. She like fits into this like magical Wizard of Oz-type world. More than the ah original Galinda from the original Wizard of Oz, she gives me the creeps a little bit.
01:10:31
Speaker
Glinda does? From the original Wizard of Oz. I never thought she was creepy. I think maybe as a kid I thought she was kind of pretty. Really? On this watch, I was like, nah, she gave me the creeps a little bit. But I'm a sucker for actresses and all. I've been watching a lot of them. She's like manipulating the Wizard of Oz kind of a little bit, like watching it. Like, so here's how the Wizard of Oz plays out. And I'm curious to see the second half of Wicked. I have no idea if they even get to Wizard of Oz in it or like tell any of the witch's perspective on the Wizard of Oz, like in the second half of the play. But like,
01:11:06
Speaker
So Dorothy lands in Oz, drops the house on the Wicked Witch of the East, who's apparently the sister of the Wicked Witch of the West. They say that in the Wizard of Oz. So wheelchair? She's gonna get a house dropped on her? that's what i'm wondering and it's like so yeah dorothy's house lands on the wicked witch of the east and uh there everybody in munchkin land is celebrating dorothy they're like fuck yeah you killed the witch you killed the witch and i was watching this i was like wait did is there like a fake out on the witch's death like it was like so weird and galinda was just like you killed the witch yay and like starts giving backstory. And then the Wicked Witch of the East or the West shows up, the one that we all know. And Dorothy's like, who's that? And Glinda's like, oh, that's her sister, the Wicked Witch of the West. She's way worse. And it's like, and she's there to like mourn her like dead sister and then sees red crystal shoes and is like, I want my shoes. And then Glinda's like, well, you can't have them.
01:12:14
Speaker
they're on her feet now and then it's like so the witch is like her sister's dead and her shoes have just been stolen by someone she doesn't know and Galinda the whole time is like this witch is bad news and I'm like kind of seems like Galinda's manipulating the whole thing and then the Wizard of Oz when they get to him oh he's full of shit yeah he's like his thing um is uh he's like I'll grant your wishes if ah you go and steal the broom from the witch. I forgot that's what he asked for. Yeah and it's like it's these two being like just they're creating the problems for the witch.
01:12:59
Speaker
They're like, it's like weird, but they like, ah Glinda pet pegs the witches like this evil person to Dorothy and like puts the shoes on Dorothy, steals them from the witch's dead sister. And then the wizard is like, Hey, go fuck it with the witch. Go steal some more of her shit. And it's like, yeah why are you guys fucking with this witch?
01:13:21
Speaker
Wow, that's really you should write like a musical about that idea. That's good. I should. But no, it's like, no, no, no, no, I get what you're saying. Like the the the seeds of what this is are in the original movie like like shocked me that I like didn't remember like the Wizard of Oz that way at all. I until i watch Wicked. I did. I didn't think of Glinda in that way specifically but now that you're like recapping it I'm like yeah I always did like my takeaway even as a kid from about the wizard was like oh so this is like about phonies because like one is like fucking swiper gotta tell her swiper no swiping you know
01:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. Total swiper. But, yeah, no, I always yeah had that a thought about the wizard is that like, yeah, he's full of shit. um Yeah, he doesn't give ah the tin man or ah is it the scarecrow a brain? Yeah, it's the scarecrow because the scare gives him a diploma. Yeah, it's like he's totally full of shit.
01:14:31
Speaker
he He doesn't have any answers. He has no real power. He just, like, is a flim flam man. He's a snake oil salesman. Like, like, yeah. but Not the site, a not great movie with James Franco. Isn't he literally a snake oil salesman? Or he's like a magician or something, right? Yeah.
01:14:49
Speaker
i don't know We don't have to worry about that. Anyway, I just got stressed just thinking about it and powerful. You got stressed because of how good it is sort of having heart palpitations.
01:15:04
Speaker
What if this was canon to that and you're like, so wait, so she's going to become. Uh.
01:15:14
Speaker
Mila Kunis? No, it would it would not line up at all. like It's like a completely different take. This is in the Forgetting Sarah Marshall Cinematic Universe? Yeah.
01:15:25
Speaker
I think it is like a cool subversion, ah to and I knew that much without seeing the musical that that was like the basic just gist of like what this story was gonna be, like fli flipping the perspective like that. But what I didn't expect was like, I didn't and didn't know there was gonna be like an animal liberation like aspect to it. And and and and thinking back on it, I was like,
01:15:52
Speaker
Well, there's the flying monkeys. I guess there is a lion talking lion. And I was like, the flying monkeys get on the witches side though, between wicked part one and the wizard of Oz though. Cause they're working for her in the wizard of Oz. I mean, she's an animal rights activist. Like maybe she keeps that and she's like, Hey monkeys, they tricked you or tricked me. Like. It's seeming... Well, because the lion is talking to... I think her plan works. It seems like she liberates the animals because they seem pretty free and talking in the Wizard of Oz. Yeah. Yeah, no, like the lion is just in the woods and and he can talk and... Okay, I felt dumb for not immediately putting this together. That cub that they rescued from... ah ah Class, is that a lion? Is that the lion? Does he grow up to be the lion?
01:16:42
Speaker
I wondered that the first time I watched it and then I was looking up a little bit about the the book Wicked and it said that um in some way all of the characters we know make an appearance and I assumed that was including ah the three that we know that are with Dorothy so keep my peel for that Yeah. Unless in the book, they're at the very beginning or the very end and that's what they mean. But one of the little kids, uh, before they even revealed the cage, and one of the kids in front of us, I don't know if you heard, but he was like, it's the cowardly lion before they even revealed that it was a lion at all. I, I missed that, but like I ah got me kind of happy. I was like, these kids know the wizard of Oz. Yeah, that's nowadays yeah that's pretty cool. Some of those.
01:17:30
Speaker
It brought a little bit of joy to my heart a little bit, because I couldn't imagine and kids nowadays watching The Wizard of Oz. I'm just glad some kids are being raised, right? Unless there's some modern reference for it, like if it's been redone in like animation for kids nowadays or something. I don't know about animation. It's just referenced a lot. it's like I feel like maybe one of the most referenced things in terms of... The American Government has a song about it. It's called Home.
01:17:59
Speaker
Uh, there's that famous war of the world shot where it's like the next morning he opens up the door, but it's not going from black and white. The coach is like bloody like shit outside. Like it like looks like a fucking nightmare outside. Pink Floyd. Those kids, they probably know it from the Pink Floyd album. Oh, right. I think it is. Right. Or is it the wall? Starks out of the moon, right? Yes. I'm just nodding my head. Yes.
01:18:27
Speaker
Yeah, all the kids, they bring out their vinyl record players and their vinyl records of, uh, dark side of the moon and their, uh, VHS copies of wizard of Oz and they, uh, sync them up and take a trip kid. It's getting out of hand kids these days.
01:18:46
Speaker
Well, some of, like you said, it was, it is hardening to know that. I didn't, I didn't catch that for that one kid in in particular, but that's, that's cool. and That kid, I guess is smarter than me. Cause I didn't nod to like scenes later, like when they're at the wizard, like, wait a minute. There was a lot. Cubs, cubs grow up. I'm like, I have like a dry erase board. I'm like, cubs. Yeah. Cubs become when they grow, lions. What the fuck? Yeah, you have like a picture of the cowardly lion, then like next to him to the left is like a small question mark. Like, what came before? And you're like, wait a minute. And then you're like, this, a cub would fit there with that small question mark. Maybe might work.
01:19:35
Speaker
Uh, yeah, it's interesting to, if, if, if this follows what you were saying, like that all of the characters in some form. Yeah. There's like a tin can and we're like, I I've seen tin before because he's just a straight up and there's a recycling plant.
01:19:53
Speaker
Sorry, I was about to get my terms. An Android would be ah just a machine, intelligent machine that's been built that was never human. A cyborg is a person that got turned into a machine, right? Yeah. So he was always, he was never a cyborg, right? He was never like used to be human. He was always just like someone built a tin man. I think so, yeah. He's like a Pinocchio type of figure. Right, okay. People should be talking about him more and the scarecrow.
01:20:21
Speaker
This, the scarecrow, I always really did like the Tin Man, although- That's my favorite. I like Scarecrow. He's the funniest. He's just got the most personality. I think he has a gun at one point. I think, uh, you said off mic, you really, really love the guy who plays him in the whiz, like the, the, the like off camera, like as the person, you just like really respect him.
01:20:45
Speaker
Yeah. It's Michael Jackson. Oh, I've never seen The Wiz.
01:20:51
Speaker
I take that, yeah, back that I said then. Never seen The Wiz. I mean, it's a good it's good for when that movie was made, you're like, Michael Jackson is the scarecrow. That makes sense. It does make sense. I could see him being a scarecrow. Yeah. um Let's see. What was the cowardly line is the one thing he's like, what puts the ape in apricot courage? And he like keeps saying shit like that. It's like bonkers. Does it make sense? Almost none of it makes I want to rewatch Wizard of Oz. Good movie. I know, man. It really, it is crazy. The Tin Man used to stress me, even though I always liked any kind of somewhat mechanical thing. Like, I i would get stressed out when he'd have to oil himself. Because I was like, I was imagining just my body breaking down and like getting stiff to the point of immovability. And like, that was like terrifying. I was like, and I can't move? What the fuck?
01:21:50
Speaker
Or he gets, like, dense in himself sometimes when, like, people will, like, elbow him or bump up against him. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but I'm like, damn, dude, like, that hurts. You're, like, bender. It's body horror. Yeah. He's like, bender from Futurama. It is wild, though, yeah. Like, going from Wicked to Wizard of Oz, like, movies made, like, almost, like, we could say, like, close to eight years apart. It's, like, 85 years apart, basically. Yeah, I was gonna say, round up to 100, sure. Like, I'm not gonna...
01:22:20
Speaker
And it's like, I got, it was a different kind of joy, but I got like, I won't say just as much because there's something about it the musical numbers and Wicked that just like hit me so hard, but it's like,
01:22:34
Speaker
I got like a lot, like a powerful amount of joy from watching The Wizard of Oz like a day after watching Wicked and then Wicked again, like two days after Wizard of Oz fucking loved it again. This movie rules so hard. Are there any ah specific moments you want to talk about in the movie? Um, I feel like we maybe talked around it or referenced it vaguely in spoiler free, but the dance like any any school set thing you know whether you're at hogwarts or something there's always like a you gotta have something where there's like some kind of homecoming or prom equivalent and this does feel like harry potter light a little bit a little bit it's like harry it's it's it's kind of a mixing pot of like yeah the school stuff is very harry potter they're in a magic world but then it also has this like steampunk aesthetic which i really like because i feel like
01:23:28
Speaker
We only, em probably some of that's just budgetary limitations in the original movie. We can only see so many any things, but I do like that we like, the train is like very steep. Like in terms of like, you see the gears and stuff. Like I almost like seeing that made me excited. I was like, I want to see more. Like show me more tech in this world. Like, cause I think all that's really cool. Um, uh, but anyway, the dance. yeah So it's,
01:23:54
Speaker
it was I feel like part of it with the lead up with like the hat and everything like getting her to wear wear this hat was like that was in one of the trailers I think so and also yeah we know what the Wicked Witch wears so it's like not surprising that that's how it's gonna happen but like the context of it all because like so far she's been this like It's the kind of person that's like yeah like smiling and like acting like they're being really nice to you while they're just like stabbing you in the back. And like the like the interesting thing about how she plays it, whereas you're like, you know what you're doing, right? Because like she does this she's like, I couldn't when they when they're like gesturing for her to give her the hat. But like there's other moments where I'm like, do you realize how you sound right now? like like ah
01:24:44
Speaker
about Galinda's like, or how self aware is she? There's there's moments where I'm like questioning that where I'm like, how self aware is going to like, or, or, or, or is she like, kind of dilute? I think she's like pretty diluted a lot in terms of thinking that like, does she go to bed thinking I'm a good person.
01:25:02
Speaker
i think she does yeah but i was also i mean she does it's in the song she's she loathes um alphaba so it's like she's like i couldn't give this to anyone but then she or like i couldn't my worst enemy or some or the person i hate the most or something she sees the person she hates the most and is i guess i could give it to them yeah. It does not need much convincing to like do this this pretty mean thing to. But it's right before she makes the turn at the dance. All of this is happening in the musical number uh Dancing Through Life. What did you think of that one? I really like that song. Oh I really liked it too and I like that there's like the different we've talked about the songs have kind of like movements too like within you know you talk about the three act structure of like a story or something but like
01:25:48
Speaker
the individual songs like have acts where it like will like this part's a little slower and quieter or like maybe we pause it in between acts one and two and then we go to the next location that song picks back up again now it's building it's building and like uh i i i yeah i like that song and it takes up i think it might be the longest song in the movie it it because there's like multiple scenes it goes through yeah there's a whole like
01:26:19
Speaker
characters convincing other characters to ask each other out there's the hat thing like multiple locations because it starts to like a library i think or i don't know it's all over the place but it's like you almost forget that you're in the song like because it does actually like go dead silent at a certain point well and that's the most silent part is the most impactful but at the dance itself when like they're dancing. to Well, at first it's just her by herself. Well, I do want to say she so she walks into the party and the DJ kills the music. What it what fucking asshole DJ is like running this party? And why does she hate Alpha? I mean, why is he or she hate Alpha? I just like that how this move whole movie is arranged socially like
01:27:14
Speaker
It's circles around. it It feels like the whole world, not just like, I know they're not in high school, but it's operating on kind of high school clickiness and and like pettiness. But it feels like the whole world, at least what we're seeing of this world is operating with that mentality. Cause people will stop, make a circle for, for like Galinda and Elphaba multiple times. And like that they're, you know, basically like, I'll see how this plays out. I do.
01:27:42
Speaker
It's not really like true to the high school experience, but I do really like a cliche, like high school experience portrayed on screen in like this way too. I've seen high school musical too and I did enjoy those like growing up and I don't know, maybe it is a bit of my like enjoyment of high school musical coming out with this thing. Yeah. Well, it's, it's, uh,
01:28:09
Speaker
it's It's recontextualizing that in like a very different setting and the thing that I've never seen in the high school musical movies, but the thing about some high school movies that really resonate with me, even the, you know.
01:28:21
Speaker
like heightened non-realistic ones is that I just like coming of age stories. um And this in a way it is, I mean, like we're, she's at the same age for most of the movie, but coming of age in the sense of like finding yourself and finding what you want to be and what you want to do, you know, like she, she's someone who like even her own family, she's kind of like a pariah and stuff like, like her father. was She's like a goth kid.
01:28:50
Speaker
a god but like not by choice it's like like her father intentionally like pushed her like a bear raised her like a bear nanny raised her mom's dead her mom's dead the father only cares about the other sister uh and Basically, like any time Ephaba talks the dance, like shut up and kicks her. I mean, that's like the how the whole world treats her. It's like because of she's just different, you know, like the the no one can accept that. Yeah, she got into heavy metal at a really young age. Worshiping the devil. But she went a different path than Nicolas Cage in Long Legs. That's what we learned from this year. Metal heavy metal can take you down two different paths. There should have been a metal song in this movie.
01:29:36
Speaker
Nicholas Cage should have been in this. He should have been a wizard. As long legs. Yeah. And he was like, let me in now, it would feel so nice. As long legs as the wizard. Oh, fuck. That would be the biggest surprise. Now, that's a good wizard take. But yeah, that dance moment,
01:29:55
Speaker
um That was like the first sincere thing we see from go. Glinda, right? Like, yeah, that's when Glinda gets on her side because Glinda. So I don't know if Alphaba told Michelle Yeoh to get her ah Glinda in on like their class or their sessions because Glinda set her sister up with ah the munchkin boy Bach. But. ah What's her face? Galinda just got the information that, uh, Alphaba did her a solid and I think Galinda starts to like re-examine herself in that moment. Oh, this person I've been horrible to is just, did, has been, did me a really good, a big solid. And she's about to walk into this party wearing a hat that like I gave her to set her up for failure. Right. I wanted her to be publicly ridiculed. I'm the bad person. Yeah.
01:30:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then so like it's like the Carrie moment. She's like, I've seen Carrie. I've been. But then she decides to back to the future to style, go back through Carrie. She's like, no fan of movies. Yeah, she's she's she's always referencing them. It's kind of weird. ah But she's. But yeah, to her credit, like and like, yeah, this this scene got to me is it that like this this weird I don't even know what you'd call the kind of dancing they do. It's like a lot of like po poses like stopping and posing with like hands, uh, collapsed in like ah different angles and stuff. But then Glinda joins in with it too. And there's- And it was a really nice moment. My first time seeing that in theaters, that's where I, uh, the first time I had gotten emotional and during the movie, I- Doesn't Ephraim like she's kind of tearing up a little, isn't she?
01:31:45
Speaker
yeah Yeah, and yeah when they're doing the dance together that's when I started tearing up anytime Cynthia Rivo got teary-eyed I did too at that moment and then the end when ah Ariana Grande is putting the cape on her and she like gives her a teary-eyed smile like the first time I saw it in theaters I was starting to get choked up the They have great on-screen chemistry, especially for like and They they do play as like very different people. I'm sure in like real life. They're probably also like very different people but like they're It works so well. They come together and like the synergy there's some of their parts create like a greater like Right, whatever. No, they're they're they're excellent together
01:32:36
Speaker
um it But just sit not not to like elevate one more than the other, but well, I will. Cynthia, if she got an Oscar, i honestly, with the momentum this is gonna have, it's gonna get some, i like yeah, I was so incredulous when I saw those Oscar shortlist things, but I'm like, yeah, this this is definitely getting nominated for shit. I think she will get nominated. She's the star of the show, I think, for me, not for everybody.
01:33:05
Speaker
I've seen a lot of Ariana Grande praise, which is no. sorry i'm She's she i like I said, I went in not I kind of actually kind of skeptical. of Like, is she actually good in this? And she was really good. But I'm but Cynthia really is what elevates and like sell. There's stuff in this movie is wicked. There's movie. There's parts in this that would be like too corny or on the nose or like maybe kind of annoying and like a prequel way of like okay that's where she got the cape but like that moment you said like just in her eyes and how she plays that moment I'm like fuck because I almost did start to get it like just my bitterness and maybe probably my sour mood I was like okay we get it it's where she got the cape and then we then we see like her fucking knocking it out of the park with just her face and acting and it's like okay fuck it was a good moment yeah she's great uh it's just uh i love it and this movie it it just blows me away i called it stellar that was my review that i gave it on letterbox but i
01:34:18
Speaker
I don't know. It's just, I'm kind of speechless with this one. I didn't really expect to like, gosh, over the this is the Christmas movie. I was kind of waiting for like, there's no other way to put it. It's just, it's rather good. Yeah. People are going to love it. So like co-workers, um, Thursday and Friday, uh, all day we're talking about Wicked, how they're going to see it, how they can't get tickets to see it. It sold out every theater they're trying to go to. I assume it's like Imagine or the Marcus in Orland, which I would believe tickets are probably going like pretty well for those theaters, especially the bigger ones. But like everybody's talking about it, like talking about making an event out of this. It's like,
01:35:03
Speaker
it's not it's kind of nice it I don't know if it's surprising it and I don't know if it it's I don't know if it's deserved like well it did define deserved because in my mind things that don't deserve any level of success go on to like gross. like This is something that was meant to be big. Right. In Inception. So it's like, should I be as blown away by how this is about to take hold? Am I just a mark and I fell for it? you got but But also, it's like, well, they made a good movie. so Yeah. um like also like I'm like saying this like I'm preparing for an oncoming storm like I feel like this movies gonna take hold but was it always meant to do that was it always gonna be this like is this not the surprise that I think it is I think
01:36:00
Speaker
Maybe the people like us it's a surprise you know like if are who aren't tapped into like the I mean we know musicals we know of musicals and we've seen movie musicals we're not like tapped into like that world because people at work know Cynthia Rivo's name and I was like Right. And it's like none of her other movies would people. Oh, they're big Widows fans. but Yeah. My coworker knew um Bad Times at the El Royale. I think there was one. She knew Cynthia Arevo from something. I actually don't remember exactly what it was. But then she was like, oh and this is like someone who's probably close to like twice my age, maybe a little bit older. But um
01:36:44
Speaker
She was like saying, she was like, I'm watching interviews and she's like, Cynthia, Revo and Ariana Grande seem like they're best friends and they're like going out and I'm like, people are invested. They have good chemistry. Yeah. I'm trying to think of the last time that like just in the marketing, like sure, there's been times where like there's been ad campaigns where like the internet or film Twitter would be making memes about how horny Zoe Kravitz and Pattison look in the Batman, but like, coworkers aren't going to be bringing up that that that chemistry or or like seeking out the interviews in the way that I think people are like responding to the just from the clips I've seen that they they it the it does seem sincere uh like just like in real life for them
01:37:30
Speaker
Yeah, it was probably wonderful to be a part of this. like And it was probably like the most effortless thing to say like yes to. It's like, oh, do I want to be the star? Of the biggest musical adaptation, yeah. Yeah, and being the biggest movie make the most money ever, like just being a part of the most successful musical development. I hope she and not only got paid a lot up top. I hope she got like one of those good back end deals where like she gets like some kind of percentage or something. like Yeah, she deserves it. Because like I said, I don't think this works without her. ah And again, I'm just talking in the movie, you're like, Cynthia, or was it in the musical musical? I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the movie. Yeah, talking about the movie, even though like, to an extent, after listening to the songs from the play so much on repeat, I do kind of prefer those over the music over the movie versions of them. But that might just be because I was like, so like inundated with
01:38:30
Speaker
the only option i had the day after i had seen the movie i listened to those songs like over and over and over and i was like driving to work the next morning listening to uh defying gravity and almost just crying in my car on the way to work and then ah Friday same thing driving to work and I had a different playlist on shuffle that Defying Gravity was just in now and then that came on and I'm like getting super emotional and I get into work and like they make like a birthday announcement and like co-workers give me a card and stuff and
01:39:07
Speaker
I'm like super emotional reading the card and I'm like, ah, it's because of Wicked. I'm like so emotionally raw right now. And I was like almost crying in front of like one of my coworkers, like thanking them for the card. And coworkers are like, wow, I'm really good at giving gifts. I'm like the best gift giver ever. Yeah, they were like, he really likes that Fandango gift card.
01:39:30
Speaker
no but I was just like it was very sweet like I didn't think I was gonna get anything I wasn't even too sure if like my co-workers liked me like enough to do anything it was like very very thoughtful very nice I doubt they're listening but if they are like shout out to you you guys like hold it off I hope they're not listening but um and know listening I don't know I don't know what I've said but uh I I can't be held accountable for my words. Um, but I was like, yeah, telling one of my coworkers, I was telling her like, are you kind of wicked? I was like, I feel like I'm a bit more emotional. Like I was like apologizing for, for getting like emotional about the car. I'm like, I feel like I'm a bit more emotional. Uh, I feel like emotionally I'm in a bit more of like a raw place right now. Cause I just saw wicked. And then I just started talking about how like wonderful it was. Um, yeah.
01:40:26
Speaker
Yeah, um, but this is like one of those. I mean, I wouldn't be ashamed of anything that I have that strong of a emotional, a genuine emotional reaction to but like, yeah, there always has been like, you know, the stigma, I feel like, of musical or at least I don't know it.
01:40:48
Speaker
maybe Maybe for younger, gen I don't know, maybe maybe Gen Z people are listening to this and like, no, musicals are cool. It's cool like musicals. It was it was closely tied to like a very kind of fictional ideal of masculinity of like, well, men like this and girls like, you know, musicals or something. But but like,
01:41:11
Speaker
Except for West Side Story, that's a musical for the boys. Because there's gangs. and Yeah, and they throw rocks or whatever. They shoot rubber bands at each other. Right. Yeah, stuff like that. I mean, they do get a gun at some point. But I think this is like the musical that like people will every everyone that will be on the chain. Like, I'm trying to think the last time like that actually like the culture was taken fall in like a very mainstream way. Like, yeah, La La Land was popular and well received. But like, we're we're like co workers and everyday people shouting its praises in that way.
01:41:50
Speaker
I don't know. Definitely a bunch of like people in my family had seen it. That was like a big family, like, oh, you have to see La La Land. Let's go see La La Land together, more so than co-workers. But I also, at the time La La Land came out, um I was like kind of newer at the job I was working at, so I wouldn't have been like chatting it up with co-workers at that level.
01:42:15
Speaker
Plus I was just a custodian. And so that everyone was like, we don't talk to the trash. They treated you like and so they did. They were like, why is he green? I did paint myself green. Um, ah because of the Hulk. Yeah. I thought I was the Hulk. I just not even Mark Ruffalo's Hulk, uh, Lou Ferrigno's Hulk.
01:42:38
Speaker
Oh, I thought you were gonna go, uh... Eric Bana. Yeah. Edward Norton. ah One of those guys, yeah. Um... Harrison Ford. Well, that's a different color. yeah Well, Doug. Doug, we just watched Wicked and you're discriminating on color now? Not in my house. Not on this podcast.
01:43:15
Speaker
you think of Jonathan Bailey as the Prince? I'm just gonna call him Prince Charming. I know that's not his name.
01:43:23
Speaker
I thought he was serviceable. He was good. yeah He wasn't blown any. There's been better Prince Charmings. He was more interesting. He was like a Chris Pine that sings and isn't as good looking. He doesn't look like Chris Pine. No, no, no. but you're just pining tight I'm saying you would get Pine to play this kind of role. But non musical. I don't know if Pine can sing. He's in into the woods. I haven't seen it. I don't know. I'm very curious. Pine. Yeah. Into the woods. Bit on the nose. Yeah. What were they? Pine a tree. It's a tree called Chris Pine. Pine wood.
01:44:06
Speaker
The director's name is Edward Birch. Yeah, I'm just making them tree stuff. I, I have no. napoleles
01:44:18
Speaker
but Bailey, I don't come out with like feeling too super strongly other than like, I went in ready to be annoyed by him because I felt like he was being pushed. I i never watched Bridgerton. I think he's from that, uh,
01:44:34
Speaker
Bridget, is that a British show? Yeah, it's one of those British shows where they're in a manner and they're like, Oh, I do declare. We don't need to draw any light to those shows. I mean, it's kind of surprising Cynthia Erva wasn't on one of those. She's British.
01:44:53
Speaker
um Damn, that just burst your bubble. I kind of knew that and I was gonna ask you in the theater like she's British, right? Um, but yeah Yeah, it's a betrayal for respect lost. No, I'm kidding. I Still respect her. No, I if anything I respect your Samuel Jackson wouldn't be happy though. I I tell you that was was that John Boyega that he is Boyega was playing like, was it like historical black figure or something? Maybe. Or was it Daniel Kaluuya? Oh, because Kaluuya was Fred Hampton. It was one of those British black guys. And I get where he was coming from, from that. Like, i I'm not offended when a black British person play. But there is something of like, but I'm not offended either. as
01:45:49
Speaker
They should be asking you how you feel. Just in case anyone was wondering.
01:45:56
Speaker
White guy over here felt people weren't caring about his opinion for like a few minutes. He's like, hey, I have thoughts. He just felt like I had to chime in. He's getting a little quiet on the side of the couch. Does anyone want to know what I think?
01:46:10
Speaker
No one's asking me anything, huh? All right. That was good. I forgot what I was even going. Oh, like I'm not like offended, but there is a part of me, like, like when I saw that she was playing Harriet Tubman, I was like,
01:46:27
Speaker
Huh, so there weren't any like American black people available for is and I think because she's like a real part like like maybe like one of the most famous like famous abolitionists like you know black figures from that era and it's it's like yeah like I said like not offended it's just like Huh. Okay. I guess she's just
Wicked's Visual Design & Directorial Choices
01:46:49
Speaker
that good. and They had the caster. Yeah. I mean, and it was also that I think it's a musical. So it's a singing part. She sings on. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. They needed her voice. Well, she just dubbed her voice. She's got the pipes. Also, are British people not allowed in Oz? Is that a thing? It's the opposite of Star Wars. They're all American. Oh, because Bailey is not using an accent. I forgot what he even sounds like now. Yeah, me too. He sings American. I know that much. To me, he almost looked like a like a fake ah Dan Stevens. Maybe it's just because I like Dan Stevens so much. I feel like he's British.
01:47:31
Speaker
Oh, Bailey. Yeah, he is. Yeah. no In the movie. Oh, in the movie. I thought he was like speaking, but now when you said he's sung America, I'm like, he did, didn't he? Yeah. I've sang like Benedict Cumberbatch talks. I thought that's also what I realized through this movie. That's all those British people are doing is fucking singing. who They're tricking us to think they're doing another voice. They're just singing. Yeah, they're singing and they're hitting one low note the whole time. Howard the dog is a musical. Yeah. Every band at Cumberbatch movie is a musical. Whatever the Alan Turing one was, the the machine guy man who decoded things, whatever that one was, that's a musical. The Dark Knight trilogy is musical. Musical trilogy. They did it before Joker, folks. You just didn't know it.
01:48:25
Speaker
They did. They did. ah i was going to say about but I thought his character, not specifically the performance after the whole thing with the cub is when he started to become interesting, but then he leaves the movie. So then I hope he is a part in part two. I could like the way they were setting him up and the way we last see him. I'm like, I'm interested to see where this goes now because now that he was kind of kind of radicalized by Ephaba that he was like, yeah, you're right. Like this is fucked up.
01:48:57
Speaker
I wanna see him and Ephaba escaping and then like maybe the wizard like runs them off the road and captures them and then strings Ephaba up by one hand while they drag, ah whatever his name is, I forgot it already, while they drag him behind a motorcycle until he's dead.
01:49:22
Speaker
but we don't actually even show the moment of death because it's like so traumatic for her. It's too traumatic. Yeah. I feel like, I mean, it makes sense. I haven't seen it done before, but I feel like for this kind of story, it makes sense. And I know we already have the wizard cast in this one, but I don't think anyone would care. Like this is just a crazy random idea. What if Chris Hemsworth was like the wizard? We don't know how much time passes between part one and part two. He just like went to the gym. What if he ages into a hairy Australian man? He's a master of disguise.
01:50:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. He's like pretending to be a giant robot guy. His disguise in this is different from the Wizard of Oz, so... So we can just assume he's built different things, but then also... As far as I know, his disguise is different every time someone walks in that room. Yeah. He changes it every time. People have been in there two times, and both times it's been a different disguise. So, by default, eventually... He will look like Chris Edwards. Yes, eventually. That's just numbers. That's just... Yes.
01:50:29
Speaker
yeah that's just like Murphy's law or something some kind of law Occam's razor I don't know but yeah it's a cat in a box I don't know it's just a cat in the box ah yeah and the reality is clap string theory I don't know spider-man no way home the multiverse folks. Yeah. Um, yeah, I am. I'm interested to see what they do with that character. I'm still kind of agnostic on ah him as an actor. Like I don't, I don't think he was mad. We know we talked about it in Conclave. We were voting as we were voting on the Pope. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. how I feel about this Jonathan Bailey. Yeah. Sorry for, I keep cutting you off for lame jokes. No, they're good jokes. I think, I think this might be one of our funniest episodes.
01:51:19
Speaker
I don't know, I think this is a good good discussion. I mean, we were we we go what what haven't we touched on? Is there a character or moment or song or thing that we really haven't? I guess we kind of like talked about the wizard and that is I feel like we talked more about him in the original movie than in this. So yeah, it's Goldblum. it's gold bloom yeah ah And I i had co-workers that were like gushing, like, did you hear Goldblum? Is the wizard? I was like,
01:51:49
Speaker
Yeah, that's like the laziest casting I feel like you could have done, but like I said, they do flip it on its head in a way I appreciate a little bit. Yeah, because I like that they lean in, because like we said, even in the original movie, he's full of shit. He's basically a con man, and I think that kind of character really fits Goldblum, and he's able to do the Cause he's not even like laying it on that thick for Afaba. Like he is kind of being somewhat.
01:52:21
Speaker
open that he is a phony because he like immediately steps down from the mechanical thing that he's like ah he greets her with he's like oh i didn't see that was you f about uh anyway like so immediately like oh this guy that's like the first thing you're being shown about this guy is that like he fucking puts on air or like is trying to like appear much more bigger and powerful than he is and like yeah that comes to like when she that whole reveal of like Oh, that's why you want me to read the Necronomicon, because, like, you don't have any magic. Also, why is he such a dick to people, like, immediately? I don't get it. It's interesting of- I would kind of- Like, people love him, but then they, like, are- like, they act like they love him, but anytime someone walks in there, like, in the original,
01:53:08
Speaker
he like turns them down until like they figure out they give Dorothy's name and he's like oh Dorothy it's the same thing as in this it's like one specific person that he wants or if and if it's not them he's just like an asshole to them And like other, the common people of Oz, you know, they, they just see him as all powerful. So that may be like the fear and like, ah, there's some of that, but what what he calls himself the terrifying, uh, terrible, uh, something like that in this movie. I don't remember if he does it in the original, right but why do people like Michelle, yo, who work behind the curtain, who know that he.
01:53:50
Speaker
has no power. She seems pretty loyal, right? You know, like, is that just her own self interest of like, well, I'm basically his number two. So if I help him lock shit down, then I will also by proxy be getting power. Does she have actual powers? Do we see her? Because all the times that because it it was it was F above who like did that public display when she was like making everything for she took credit. She immediately took credit for it. She was like, I did that.
01:54:19
Speaker
It seemed like that was more of a save for Ephaba, though. That's kind of how I had taken it. I took, but then I think that, I feel like that that was a little character revealing of like, she didn't really have qualms about taking credit for it. like I kind of took that as like, I'm going to take credit. Let's keep this under wraps so I can like quietly take her over here and like do my thing without other people noticing that she's got something special. Well, because she wanted, I feel like that's now in hindsight,
01:54:49
Speaker
She already would know about the the I've seen this word written like in video games and stuff. I had never know how to pronounce it. Grim war grim. It's a magic book. Anyway, so she. Yeah, she already knew about that. So that's like immediately when she sees how powerful Ephaba is like, oh, we can use you, you know, like like that, that that that started. We need some flying monkeys eyes in disguise.
01:55:16
Speaker
I like that they can't even pretend that they won't be using this for, like, evil for, like, even a second, like, and and then... Nice, we have our spies to keep the animals in engaged. Then we're gonna turn Oz into post-9-11 America. You can just wait until she left the room before you guys add this to each other. Yeah, and then you could just have her hearing through the door, and they're like, oh, F of O, we didn't see you, we're still there. Yeah, it's like, what the fuck, guys?
01:55:46
Speaker
It's pretty ridiculous. But yeah, I don't recall, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing Michelle Yeo actually use magic herself. Yeah, she's just trying to get Ephaba to use her magic. She can recognize the talent and see the use, so maybe that is- Does she move the coin at any point? Michelle Yeo, does she like close the door? Does she like hand somebody a pencil, like float it to them? Yeah, so I guess that answers my whole question of like why, what is she getting out of ah helping ah too maybe yeah that that she wants power i guess we have to
01:56:19
Speaker
rewatch it again to like really figure it out but like i didn't i don't think i clocked it I don't think she did any man I'm gonna say I mean yeah rewatch maybe you might
01:56:46
Speaker
Yeah. ah So that kind of yeah answers why Michelle Yeoh would be in on it. And she's like underhanded. She's the one who gives her the title of the Wicked Witch. Immediately coming up with branding and like ah like, oh, she's no good. You know, yeah.
01:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, she pulls a real Thor Ragnarok. I was like, when she starts giving the speech about like, we have to find the Wicked Witch, I was like, they knew not to have fucking Goldblum give his, we have to find Thor. And, you know, he took my like grand champion. I was like, it would be too close to that. I'm like, thank God they didn't have Goldblum do that again.
01:57:29
Speaker
That would have like, that would have been too reminiscent of Thor and it would have fully taken me out of that ending. and But it still was kind of putting it in my head too. I was like, because it's such a similar character in scenario. Like the grandmaster. Steam like city too. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it says steampunk. It's more like, I don't know what you'd call that.
01:57:54
Speaker
sci-fi aesthetic but like yeah it's uh it's very similar um i mean i like this better in thoracic rock i i think i do too i i would say very strong like I just had a very strong feeling and reaction to this movie, especially the first time around watching it. I mean, yeah, I'd say even with the, you know, I can only keep reiterating big asterisks. I'm probably not going to even rate it until I see it again, because I feel like I like I know I liked it, but I was like, I feel like that my star rating won't even be like ah honest or something like like like
01:58:38
Speaker
can't even be accurate, but ah I was, what was I about to say? that yeah I'd say even with all that, i this is my my favorite John M. Chu, and i I really liked In the Heights, and I really, really liked Crazy Rich Asians. Yeah, I love Crazy Rich Asians. Did you see a Rise of Cobra, GI Joe?
01:59:01
Speaker
I did another one too. I didn't, but I kind of do want to, I'm just curious what's going on over there. those joe movies I heard there's like a ballet fight scene that is like very well choreographed.
01:59:14
Speaker
I heard there is some like good action. Yeah. And it shot like musical numbers from what I've been. I mean, in, you know, based on the quality of how he shoots his musical numbers, I would be very interested to see that. I'm I'm pretty much on board to see whatever he's got going on. Yeah, I love. Yeah, I love Crazy Rich Asians so much that like movie brought me to like a full sob when I was in theaters. um it's Just like watching watch like it yeah There was a point in time where it would just be like on HBO all the time and it's like, yeah, let's just throw this fucking throw it on. I got home and when ah we were getting ready to record, I threw on Crazy Rich Asians for my dogs. It wasn't even like a playing thing. It was just, there was a pick for you section in the movies. It was all Christmas movies and then Crazy Rich Asians, and which came out in like the spring or something, I think, or maybe the summer.
02:00:13
Speaker
but Yeah, that movie, the wedding also directed. Now you see me, too. OK, that was the one I had heard of. But ah yeah, the wedding scene that I can't help falling in love with you that in theaters just brought me to like a full sob. I was just like, fuck, I want to like experience a love like this. I wish I had seen that on the big screen.
02:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, it was so good. It was one of the few times where I'm like, I am just going to cry and I can't stop myself. It's just gonna happen. He did multiple step up movies. Maybe I wanna get into the step up movies. Oh no, it wasn't now you see me. It was step up to the streets. He did that and step up 3D. Yeah. Step up to the streets I heard good things about. I mean, it's dancing. So like, you know, seems like he'd be good at that.
02:01:04
Speaker
So ah what did you think of the the final ah selling it and song number, toy and Defying Gravity? I heard that plays really well. So this would be the halfway point, I assume, right before the intermission of the play, if there is an intermission, Defying Gravity.
02:01:22
Speaker
Um, but I heard that plays like amazing, uh, in the theater. I don't know if whoever's off above, they fly over the crowd on the broom, but I heard it's like incredible to see it. Uh, I do really want to experience it. I wish that, um, maybe the scene had like a little less CG. It didn't feel as spectacle as it should have. Well, and it it's like I wasn't the spectacle is not what I came like. It's a good looking movie. And I like like some of the design and like visual ideas that we're seeing in Oz. But I yeah, there was there there was some moments near the end.
02:02:03
Speaker
where not even from like a plot perspective, but I was like, OK, yeah, she's getting chased by the flying monkeys. Makes sense. ah But I was I did like the first couple moments of the flying monkeys when you're getting. Oh, no, no, there's that visual like coming in when you see them just like dropping. Yeah, that that looked feels like a horror movie is going to happen. I will scare than anything in Alien Romulans. And then when they started coming out the windows, I was hoping we were going to lean in because I was like, okay, if we're not in song, which is, has been the best stuff in this movie, then yeah, lean into like genre stuff. Like let's, let's get some like horror going here with, I mean, as a kid, I was kind of freaked out by the flying monkeys. I think maybe a little bit the,
02:02:51
Speaker
uncanniness of like it's a person but it's not you know uh was was a little weird and and alarming to there is kind of like a horror element to the the wizard of oz even if it is intentional or not and even like the legacy surrounding wizard of oz there's like i feel like the whole urban legend of like the person being hung or whatever in the back and the sequel right yeah scaring kids so it's like I mean, it was momentary, and I get this as a PG, so maybe they didn't want to take it too far. PG movies can be scary. Let's scare kids. This is like how many so soft, though, this movie. This movie is like a pillow. That's it's kind of how I feel about the gay stuff. It's like, yeah, I get that this is for families. We could have went harder.
02:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, you think that so you think there could have been a bit more I do kind of agree with that and I agree with the horror I'm more so saying like I can see why they didn't ah do I would have appreciated a bit more horror It was nice for the brief moment. They were like that do one shot. Yeah, I Then when they first start breaking into the windows. But then the tension kind of starts fading immediately after that first hit. and yeah not it I'm like, okay, we're not actually doing like that kind of scene. Got it. and then The fact that they're CG, I think, it's not actual monkey like arms grabbing at them. It doesn't feel scary the moment they start breaking through the windows.
02:04:21
Speaker
And i was I was saying this afterwards about like all the animals that like i I really would be down for. And maybe this is my maybe my sensibilities don't translate to the kind of box office this movie is going to have. Because would people laugh at it if it was like people in suits? or If you use some kind of puppet animatronic and then supplement that with effects, I just wanted something tangible with these animals because because they're so important to the story. Like it's like, oh, this is like the whole crux of this like falling out is like over, over like the animal suppression stuff. it doesn't ever feel like they're there the only animal that kind of that that feels like it's there to me is the the little lion cub and that's because it's like in a basket half of the movie or like in a cage right it just looks so sad and not like talking or anything right so it
02:05:14
Speaker
And that's not to say like I think Dinklage's voice performance is good as ever. It never felt like that goat's there. And then when they're like dragging the goat into like the closet they're bringing it into or whatever, it's like that one shot of it being dragged away is just like a fully CGI shot it looks like and then it cuts back to them in the classroom and that shot like stands out to me so much. It's the Marvel movie thing too that gets kind of like weird and takes me out of the movie where I'm seeing a scene with actors and then for a second or a couple seconds it'll cut to an entirely CG created shot. Everything's in its CG and then it's like back to like actual people. It like fully pulls me out. yeah This movie had like
02:06:00
Speaker
a couple. It wasn't it wasn't like to the Marvel degree but I agree that there was there were some moments of that and like it's not like the designs of like the city and stuff are cool but like couldn't we have gotten like some more tangible elements like mixed mixed in there and interesting. It all feels like the Disney Star Wars thing And I don't know if it is the volume that they're filming in, but it all feels like it's got that. But the volume is like a tool like like like, yeah, Disney uses it really lazily and like has just leaned into like, I guess that's just what Star Wars looks like now, which is about other than and and or actually looks like something. But like, I think they filmed it in real places. But um the volume was used on like the Batman used the volume a lot. And you can't tell.
02:06:50
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Because it's it's they're yeah they're blending it so well. ah the I've rewatched it so many times. There's parts when he's like on the catwalk, when the like Riddler shooters are like trying to assassinate the mayor. ri kinda I'm like, that background doesn't look 100% real.
02:07:06
Speaker
for him and cat woman on the rooftop is that the volume i think that might be too but like the way it looks beautiful and it's like you stylized and lit this in a way to it's like it's kind of like how effects used to be used in like earlier big movies where it's like go back and watch like fucking Pirates of the Caribbean, the Davy Jones scenes. It's CG, but they like planned for it and how they lit a physical space for for there to be this thing that they created in it. and Jurassic Park.
02:07:41
Speaker
Yeah. i Well, they had real dinosaurs for that. Oh, yeah. Good point. But but but yeah, ah like the also just stuff you wouldn't even expect to use the volume. Like I think fucking Fableman's used it for some parts. I don't know what maybe the tornado at the beginning. I don't know.
02:07:58
Speaker
um I fully intend on rewatching that movie I don't know why it's been second my head like I really want to rewatch it so I'm gonna have to pay attention to that now too there's an actor I have to pay attention for an actress and I have to pay attention for the volume now yeah are we in the volume right now Is there any more fableman's homework you want to give me? I'll come up with some more. um But yeah, there was in like you were saying, like the Disney Star Wars thing, I not that I wouldn't throw this at the whole movie because I think there are design elements and things that looked cool. I would have liked a little more variety because like once of like certain things like the guards in Emerald City. We've I mean, we've seen
02:08:43
Speaker
what they've looked like in other versions, or even like, there were some like royal guards or whatever who had like that those green soldier outfits right in the original. They used to be like playing cards. Oh, wait, no, that's else. But like, okay, we've established that aesthetic and other things could we could also have like other tiers of real militaries that aren't in fantasy worlds have like different kinds of uniforms and tiers of like soldiers and stuff. So it's like have a bit of variety this is like a fantasy like steampunk world or something like there's more looks and variety in uh um the wizard of oz even though now that i think about it i don't know when they get to emerald city they might all just be wearing the same uniforms too in wizard of oz so i might be keeping in line with that but i don't know they like
02:09:35
Speaker
look cooler and the guards actually feel like they're a presence in the Wizard of Oz and they don't feel like they're any kind of a presence in this movie at all.
02:09:46
Speaker
zero on-screen presence baseless sola ah Yeah, like there's no like huge chase, but they're like Alpha both the witch the wicked witch and Wizard of Oz has has like her own goons and they're pretty scary and they're specific looking and yeah i don't know that they're definitely like a presence and a threat like they're in the room like get going at it with dorothy and her three friends and like in that conflict like the scarecrow catches on fire yeah yeah freaked me i was a kid ah i yeah And I think, yeah, we can still keep in line with like the original aesthetic and in thing of of the original thing. But like you said, like make it feel like a presence, like a real threat, because like no at no point, and you could be like, well, one, we've seen the Wizard of Oz. We know she's going to get out of this and like you know become the Wicked Witch and blah, blah, blah. And also the beginning of the movie.
02:10:47
Speaker
ah which does your least favorite thing, begins in media res. We see the post witch dying celebration. ah How'd you feel about that? Well, it's weird because it's media res, but it's like playing as a sequel to The Wizard of Oz. Right, because we never saw this moment before and we don't even catch up to it in this movie. like It's not like we loop back around by the end and it's like we're back there. it's like I don't even know what's going to happen between now and then.
02:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, we see Dorothy and them like walking away and I was like, well, where are they walking to? I like didn't, I was trying to remember like the wizard of, ah even though I had like just watched, but I'm like, wait, I feel like they just tell her about like the tapping your shoes. i think She does it in Emerald City. She, yeah after the witch, they have to go back to Emerald City and then yeah, she knows about the tapping and then is able to get back home. So.
02:11:48
Speaker
Was that her going back to Emerald City, post-killing the witch, I guess? I guess, yeah. Sure. I think that might be what it is. but i like so
02:12:03
Speaker
I don't know how it is in the play. And I guess maybe it's because of how it is in the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy comes and drops the house on the Wicked Witch. People immediately come out and they start celebrating. The witch is dead. The witch is dead. So at first, I was confused. I was like, wait, that scene in Wicked, was that this scene? But they're in Munchkin Land. They killed the witch, dropped the house on her in Munchkin Land.
02:12:29
Speaker
yeah which Yeah. And it's like, so they immediately go into like celebration mode and they're like, jave they fucking killed her. Yeah. If I can light a wicker man of of yeah her on fire. And so it makes more sense seeing it this time around. I'm like, this is just how they react to tragedy and death. It's like a big celebration. Like someone euthanizes their dog and they dance in the streets about it. But, uh, they take it like.
02:12:56
Speaker
So far in this movie, I'm like did Hitler get this treatment when he died like they like our burning people celebrating where you were when ah ah Bin Laden died No, I don't. Me and my friends did start, I think we may have already been drinking. We were just like, America. We started chanting America. We went to like a diner. We were like, USA, USA. I don't remember a lot of celebration. I was in high school when he died though, when he was killed. It was very somber. Yeah. I, uh, what's it called? Um,
02:13:35
Speaker
Yeah they like are just like celebrating the shit out of like really soaking it up. so so So it didn't push the same like issues you have with like other openings that that like you know begin later and then we like you know circle back around to it.
02:13:50
Speaker
Um, it's weird. I felt like it was a really awkward opening actually. like Because it's not the real opening. We have like if some business and then it doesn't even go straight from that to the credit, like the credits, opening credits don't start until we get like the little montage and thing about FBA being born, right? And then.
02:14:10
Speaker
like when do we start seeing like you know names on the screen and then wicked part that's after the opening montage yeah that's um when uh galinda's arriving at the school that's right like okay so so so universal presents adult they're adults then okay there's a good amount of time in the intro it's not until they're in like full flashback where they're like we're not going back to um Post witch being dead time then that's when ah the opening credits start rolling and the music starts kicking in but yeah, they do have like a small dance ah Number small music number with who we think might be Jeff Goldblum and they're like go over the mom and like her cheating and everything like in that media res part before they go to full flashback mode before she gets asked the question about the witch and right and that's like I guess with her and I guess that's like prompting like this is her memory of like what really happened yeah weren't you friends with her and yet now we're seeing the movie itself and it again I don't know how it plays in the play I got the feeling that it probably plays the exact same way as we saw in the movie the opening the with that with that structure yeah it felt very like a very sloppy setup for the movie
02:15:28
Speaker
it it it it was a It was a little sweaty, ah like not in a way that was losing me, but I was like... It's forgivable. There's more complaints I think I could have about the movie, but they're all like very forgivable.
02:15:39
Speaker
Yeah, no, none none of them are deal-breaking. the I guess the main reason I brought that up is that even though we all know where this is headed, I mean, we know where it's headed from The Wizard of Oz, but a lot of prequels can do a good job of like still having like the kind of tension. like There's moments of watching Better Call Saul where I'm like, is Saul going to make it out of this, even though I know that Of course he's gonna live to be a Breaking Bad, but like It's still feel though like the tension is still real and palpable and I feel like we could have used that in the end Climax part where the guards and monkeys are chate being chased around they're going to the blue like at no point was I worried as I was I was like, well, she's probably gonna like fly out of here or something, right? Like yeah like they could uh, I kind of figured that I I
02:16:30
Speaker
I figured where it was going it wasn't like anything I minded they could have like though like ramped it up a bit like maybe she like kills a guard in that moment and then stops and like stares at the body and is like so this is what it feels like. Or she kind of like tilts her hands like she kind of tilts her head and looks at it and it's like ambiguous of like what does that mean? Is she like admiring her work? Is she uh She like not comprehending what she's doing. Yeah. Then like the next movie we see and she's like wiping people out, then she's like, yeah, everybody falls different. She's like used to it now. She's seasoned. I actually would watch a slasher with Cynthia Arivo, like just fucking murking everyone. Yeah. Like part one, PG, part two are
02:17:20
Speaker
pardon reshoot that ryan kuogler movie that horror movie put her in it make her vampire Oh, she's her and kuogler should link up they should work on so be good and it's like a horror musical boom. Um, what was I going to say? Yeah, like it does that stuff doesn't break the ending. But like you said, like when they're not singing in that part, I'm like, let's get back to the singing. So like it's it's like it wouldn't. Let's either ramp up the tension part. Yeah. So let's ramp up that tension. Let's like either lean into horror, like you said, with the flying monkeys. Yeah. Let's like do do something to
02:18:04
Speaker
compensate for the lack of song here. There's a lot more dialogue in the Defying Gravity part in the movie than there is in the play. And it doesn't hurt the moments that are supposed to hit in the song hit. It's just that when we cut back to the non-singing, I'm like, okay, I get it.
02:18:23
Speaker
I get like cinematically you gotta see her like fly around and again maybe they're doing that in the theater and it plays differently than it does in what I listen to on the CD but um the movie like I don't really love how they space out um Defying Gravity where she like has a couple of lines and then she goes and flies around a little bit and then comes back and is like to Uh, whatever. I'm going to pull up the lyrics. just i want Yeah. did i make ah Just just why you're looking it up. The staging of that was weird. It's, uh, um, fuck. I have to.
02:19:08
Speaker
it like It like felt like she was doing loops and like circling back just because there was more of the song, which is like yeah it's a musical like I get it like we we can be beholden to that like level of logic but like I just felt like like this is like the climax and there should be like it It really, like, if there weren't stakes when she was being chased before, once she's on that broom, I'm like, well, no one's touching her now. yeah So, so it's like, like, they didn't even, like, if they have like guns aimed at her, or maybe not guns, it's PG, I guess, but like, if they had arrows. Yeah, if they had. Scarecrow is a gun. If, yeah, if they had guns, if they had like cannons or arrows, something pointed at her. good Yeah, like they were shooting something because then she could like move out of the way of it like rhythmically or something like like in rhythm to a thing in the song or something like she dodges a cannonball or something.
02:20:04
Speaker
But she's like, so she's like, or like sends the cannonball back. Like she's always like moving, doing telekinesis shit. she but She like fucking flung it back at them. That would be pretty sweet. Maybe I feel like we might see some of that in the next one. It might have some more action, but like they have her flying around. She's doing some of the singing. Then she flies away and keeps saying unlimited. Then she comes back and then does the nobody in all of Oz, no wizard that there ever was is ever going to bring me.
02:20:34
Speaker
and then they do the down and it like that final note hits so well but they like i feel like they space out like moments in the song more than they probably should have to have moments of visual action and for me it's like if you're having that much cg if it's not tom cruise jumping out of a plane i don't really need that much that's what i mean like the the the music number and the motion of that itself was doing enough yeah exactly like i think we're on the same page of like I enjoy good action, but I also that's not necessary. If it's not necessary, like this isn't an action movie. So like I didn't I didn't need that. So yeah yeah, unless like, you know, you're dipping your toes into horror. You're creating like a cool visual spectacle for that moment. That but like actually like that chaotic and like got kind of scary. Like that would that would have been fucking sick.
02:21:35
Speaker
And I think I'm a bit um like more sour on the ending and that might be too strong of a word because of the people behind us just taking me out of the movie so much during Defying Gravity. I was starting to notice things I was annoyed by with it that I, with that scene and how it was executed. It probably made the spacing of that in the pacing of like,
02:22:03
Speaker
Feel so much more noticeable. It was, it was more noticeable. The CGI stood out to me more like it, I was just pulled out of the movie and I was, instead of being sucked into it and being caught up in the moment, I was just watching it as a movie I was analyzing now because of like, that was just, yeah, sucked out of the story. It was just something I was watching as opposed to being like something I was experiencing, you know, like the first time around.
02:22:28
Speaker
Yeah, um, I, I, I need to see it again to like, get the, like, like I said, I think you'll take your parents to see it. I could get my mom to go see it. I, the last time my dad saw a movie in theaters was the dark night, maybe.
02:22:49
Speaker
so i don't yeah ah three and And three hours just sitting down, like he but he could maybe do a three hour movie at home where he can like get up and walk around. if for look like you like Just sitting down for that long would be kind of tricky.
02:23:05
Speaker
Maybe that was the issue those girls were having then. that's They were actually- Is that what your dad's like at the movies? He makes that little noise too. yeah No, he usually just falls asleep. i I wonder how that would have played out if you dumped your energy drink on their seats. i They were talking about it. I really thought about it and then I was just like- Do you think they would have even done anything?
02:23:32
Speaker
They would be like, ew, it's sticky. They get security on you. that That guy is harder on you and kicks you up. He's like, oh, sir, you have an outside drink?
02:23:44
Speaker
What if he was like, all of a sudden confident? He's like, sir, you have to leave now or I'm calling security. It's like, there's no like posture is straighter and more firm now. Like you actually are acting like confident and like and intimidating. What's happened to you? Where was this guy?
02:24:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. That'd be funny. This would be a good heel turn. No, yeah, I don't I I I just didn't I was just like I'm putting everything in my power to trying to like push myself back in they were pulling me out of the movies like push back in so I I need to be able to get some kind of emotional catharsis from from from this part and and it's like yeah all my energy was going to that and I was like I just it but It could blow up in my face or escalate to more things that would distract from the movie if I deport the thing. So I didn't, but I don't know. yeah Maybe I should have. It would have been interesting to see how it played out. They would have had the reaction and they would have been the assholes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, I don't think anyone in the theater would have. ah
02:24:58
Speaker
I would have been justified. They drew first. I was justified. Yeah. It was justified. Have you got any final thoughts on Wicked? Wallen Goggins and Timothy Alphont, what if they were in Wicked part two? As Glenda and Alphama. They used to dig coal together.
02:25:23
Speaker
collinda shoots alphama in the chest yeah alphabet and and And it's kind of clear that like she was intended to die and they just rewrote it, that she lives because like that character was like popping so much. They're like, fuck, it's a better story if you keep a hero alive.
02:25:40
Speaker
um Oh, do you remember how ah the Wicked Witch dies? The water. What, like, the circumstances under which it's thrown on her? It's in a pail, right? It's never set up. They never reference, like, the water water kills the witch. It just... It's just there.
02:26:00
Speaker
The witch sets, um, the scarecrow on fire and Dorothy goes and grabs a pail of water. And as Dorothy's grabbing it, the witch is saying, no, not the water, not the water. Don't throw the water. And she goes to throw it on the scarecrow to put the fire out. And most of the water lands on the witch and it kills the witch. and So it was just accidental. It was an accident. Yeah. No one knew. And then she's like, ah,
02:26:26
Speaker
Melting and melting oh poor cruel world who knew that you could have killed my beautiful wickedness When do you watch that but without even any of the wicked context or like reversal stuff Did you ever feel sorry for her the wicked witch like just fucking being melted?
02:26:48
Speaker
ah Yeah, I did at the end. I was like, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah. As a kid, it kind of fucked with me of like, they did the right thing, right? Like I was kind of like, this doesn't feel like, they I don't know. Like when bad guys die, they're supposed to be like, fuck you, John McLean, and then fall out of a building or something. Like I didn't. And I mean,
02:27:12
Speaker
Dorothy was there to steal her property. I mean, that was like her broom as far as Dorothy knew. And she was doing it while wearing shoes that Dorothy stole from the witch. Her dead sister's shoes. Yeah, Dorothy's kind of an asshole.
02:27:28
Speaker
I mean, she was set up, you know? Like, she didn't know the full thing. She also wasn't... She was worried about getting into Kansas. She was not asking questions. She didn't know she needed those shoes to get back to Kansas until after the witch was dead. Someone gave her, like, hey, you want these dead bitches shoes? She's like, yeah, cool. Yeah. They look nice. Give them. Yeah, it's ridiculous.
02:27:52
Speaker
So based, okay, now that we brought up the ending of, you know, what quote unquote is the witch's ultimate fate. Do we think that this opening in this one, like this is our completely uneducated. Here's, here's the time before you go and watch the, the stage play or the musical or whatever, like our uneducated guesses. Is there going to be like some fake out, which isn't dead, right? Like.
02:28:18
Speaker
I don't know. Comes back around, she kills Galinda. You're like, I knew it was you, Fredo. She's like, that's my 200th victim. Licks the blood off the blade. It's like, damn, she's really hardened. Yeah, it's really, really changed. Maybe she is a villain. Maybe they should have killed her. Maybe she is wicked. Are we going to see a psychological breakdown of the witch? Because part of me, too, I was like, I don't see Cynthia Rivo becoming the witch that we know in the Wizard of Oz. Like, something's really going to have to snap. She's going to probably spend a lot of time in isolation. I mean, a lot of years would have to pass, though, because Galinda's an old woman in the Wizard of Oz. You know who's not in
02:29:03
Speaker
that opening celebration, or... Uh... No, I was gonna say the prince. Because he dies. I just told you how he dies. Wait, how'd you tell me he dies? By being dragged behind a motorcycle. Oh, right, but I'm saying that happens, and then she becomes... Like, that that that's her breaking point. The prince dying.
02:29:32
Speaker
Because we already have the seeds of like, they kind of are aligned on this issue. And in a way for him, my read at least is genuine. It's not like in the way where Belinda was like, I care about the animals too. like she will like like He seemed sincere of like, and I've been thinking about that day. Like that that like he yeah he's haunted by it.
02:29:52
Speaker
That's why I feel like it's gonna, he's gonna come back around. And then maybe get killed for it. That would be interesting. Also too, in The Wizard of Oz, Elphaba doesn't really seem like she has like a hatred for Galinda. When you're seeing it, it almost just seems like she's like, you suck, Galinda. God, I like, fuck. It's just yeah always in my way, you know? It seems like there's more of like a thwarting of plans as opposed to like mortal enemies.
02:30:22
Speaker
It's kind of like the Roadrunner. She always just came off as like Coyote, a hater more than like an actual like evil person. I was like, oh, well, you guys have some beef. So it's not like I don't know. You seem you seem really mad at each other. So like, I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, she's just the Wicked Witch of the West. She occasionally comes in and is just like, I'm going to do my witch shit. You know, the animals are free. You deal with it. And maybe they hate the witch because all of them are racist against animals. Yeah, so is it just like we wanted, you know, maybe
02:30:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's like so is it really it is just the gold bloom thing of him explaining. And I do like they don't have to like pry it out of him. He's like, I'll never tell my secret motivations. And he's like, you I'll tell you. ah So it the whole like suppressing animals thing, it's just to give people a common villain. And it's like, oh, if we tell people the Mexicans are rapists and, you know, like that'll help. Oh, I mean the animals that, you know, that will unite people against it will bring people together. Yeah.
02:31:29
Speaker
I like what you did there. ah What did I do? I didn't know. I just slipped out. It's kind of like if we drop a squid on the city. Oh, see, an Azimundeis take would also be more interesting. We've come up with several more better takes for the win. And again, I don't even hate. I'm I'm a fan of Jeff Goldblum. And, in you know,
02:31:53
Speaker
You know, fly, Asian bystanders, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, Jurassic Park. Jurassic World Dominion. Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom.
02:32:08
Speaker
But, but I, yeah, I agree with you that it's pretty lazy in terms of like it. Okay. I mean, he's, he's already played very similar roles. And yeah, it it would be like casting him as like an, as like a will, as Willy Wonka or something, you know, like if they keep doing sequels to the Timothy Chalamet thing and Timothy Chalamet becomes, uh, Jeff Goldblum when he's older. I didn't even consider that as a possibility.
02:32:39
Speaker
More Wonkas? That's what the the world wants. They're craving Wonka. Wanting a wonky? We're gonna get so wonky with Wonka.
02:32:49
Speaker
People are going to start eating that awful chocolate. There should be. OK, if next Wonka, it's a legal courtroom drama about a lawsuit about people who've died from the chocolate. And I guess you can have some songs in the courtroom or something. Yeah. Like, what's the best like Wonka thing, like shock tarts? Oh, in terms of the candy. Yeah. It's all kind of bad for me. Oh, oh wait, Laffy Taffy's or Wonka, right?
02:33:19
Speaker
I only like the banana ones. That's why I go go straight for the banana. I'll tolerate an apple, I guess, but I i was going to say apples a second. i put but But in my heart, I'm like, I really wish there was a banana. It's like when my parents got me a PS4, the winter that we came out or a PS3, I was like, yeah, thanks. Wish I could be playing Zelda right now.
02:33:45
Speaker
fucking, man, Wonka sucks. That- I didn't see it. I did think about Wonka um a lot while watching Wicked when I was like, it's weird that like two movies could kind of have like a similar vibe and one could just be fucking nothing and the other could just be so magical and wonderful. Wonka just- Some people fucking love Wonka. I know, it's crazy. I haven't seen it.
02:34:12
Speaker
It's do you like the Paddington movies? It's the same guy. I haven't seen it. Yeah, I own them. I want to watch them with my nephew. I don't know if I'll watch the Peru one, though. That's too out of the country for me. Too dark. Yeah. Consider that scenario. I don't know. He seems like an ass kisser like he's leaving America.
02:34:30
Speaker
Paddington, like, is friends with, like, the British monarchy and stuff. Wait, is he not from America? Are these Paddington movies not in America? Do you not know that he's British? Oh, he's like the most British bear ever. I just said I haven't watched him, you think? Watching Paddington trailers? Yeah. No, I don't know. I didn't watch trailers. I've just seen clips of him being like,
02:34:51
Speaker
Oi! It's me, Penn! That's not what he sounds like. I heard Hugh Grant is in it. He's a villain. And so I assumed British guy comes to America to be evil. Ben Wishaw is the voice of Penn. You know, it doesn't make sense. I've seen the way he's dressed. He looks... There's no American that would dress the way Paddington does. And I'm sure Ben Wishaw has played Americans. He also refers to like bread as or cookies as biscuits.
02:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kidding. And he calls Marmalade also sounds like a very British word. I was trying to think of more British slang. He's always watching the telly. I don't know. Yeah, he's a big fan of Doctor Who, a great British Bake Off.
02:35:38
Speaker
Dr. Who, yeah. No, I think you can tell we're riding down now. Yeah, as a Dalek.
02:35:49
Speaker
yeah
02:35:54
Speaker
I've seen just enough Doctor Who for that to be really funny of just the wording of like, he has a doll. I don't even know if that's, if you can have a doll like that. Is that one of those robot things that looks like a tank?
02:36:09
Speaker
It's a tank, but that's not their real, that's like a ah transport machine. Inside you open it up, they're like squids and they're basically like space Nazis and they want to like ah ah kill all the other races. So he owns a Dalek. He has a Dalek. It would just be like, if a hearing person has a Dalek, be like saying they collect a lot of Nazi memorabilia. you like Every time he turns around, a stone angel follows him.
02:36:38
Speaker
Oh, you know about those angels. Okay. let the stone in I almost brought them out up on the smile review. Cause that, e that part in smile to where she keeps looking back and it's like the mass of like the people coming in. I'm like, Oh, they're doing a blink.
02:36:51
Speaker
but I liked that episode. um I've seen a very little bit of Doctor Who, but there's- There's good like standalone horror episodes, because sometimes it'll just be like, what if there was a monster? I saw a moment that I really appreciated from Doctor Who that actually, like out
Cultural Impact: Doctor Who, Star Wars & Beyond
02:37:08
Speaker
of context, not knowing anything about the show like did bring a tear to my eye.
02:37:12
Speaker
Spoilers for the David Tennant season of Doctor Who coming up if you want to skip ahead like 30 seconds, but um There's like something happening with him and this girl They're about to be separated and then the moment they get separated a wall just comes up between them and they're like it cuts to both of them and David Tennant's on one side of the wall and I think she's in like a field and they're just in completely separate like time periods or whatever just lost from each other and I was like That's so sad, that's like profoundly sad. There's a lot of heartbreakings. I mean, just him as a character is really sad. Like all his people, he is, well, with an asterisk, he's like the last one of his race. Like you've, there's a whole backstory where he's like, yeah, he's basically that. I mean, I'm not going to get into a doctor who thing. I might get back into it. The new guy seems kind of cool. Now that they're done with the lady. I was like,
02:38:08
Speaker
Finally, they gave Doctor Who back to the fans. Yeah, finally. I'm really glad. Just a white man.
02:38:18
Speaker
Another white man is Doctor Who. is It's always been. It's a black man. Wait, what? Yeah, it's pretty woke.
02:38:29
Speaker
Whoa, not my Doctor Who, my beloved Doctor Who. I've seen like six episodes, so I think I'm okay to claim it as mine. Is Wicked being a musical? Has that shielded it from the normal, annoying neckbeards who are like, oh, they made the witch black?
02:38:45
Speaker
Oh, huh. Oh, this is just a more forced diversity. You're like, because they don't care about wicked, right? They're pretending not to notice because noticing it would mean they're gay. Yeah. So they just, they have to bottle their rage up about this. movement man Yeah. They just have to hide it. They go home and they punch themselves in the face while looking into the mirror, being like, I am a man.
02:39:11
Speaker
The funniest one was ah fucking ah Star Wars, where with no context before we even- How everyone is like, there's a black person in Star Wars? How dare they? There's always been a black person in Star Wars. Before we knew anything about this guy, people were like, oh, black stormtrooper. And it's like, they're the bad guys. I mean, Finn ends up being more than that, but if you're like,
02:39:39
Speaker
are you upset that like if you don't like black will shoot you want them to get shot by the good guys like it's they're like stormtroopers all white as far as I know they've been white they're British they come in they'll be like my lord we've been tracking the The Stormtroopers aren't even British. No, they don't. They're American in ah the original Star Wars. It's just the officers that are British. All the Imperial officers. The helmeted ones are all the same generic, like, American voice. It just sounds like a radio voice. They're like, hey. Hey, you don't belong here. Let me see some identification. Hey, let me shoot around you, but not hit you.
02:40:21
Speaker
Hey, get them. There they are. They're over there. It's just like stock voices. Yeah. And ah and then they'll be like, did you know that that Stormtrooper was Daniel Craig? yes No, I didn't. He take the mask off. Yeah, that one in that deleted scene is Tom Hardy. Okay. Yeah, and the that was the last Jedi. No, no, no, I know. that that that's I just remember reading that and I was like,
02:40:51
Speaker
ah Cool, I guess. That Stormtrooper right there, he studied under Daniel Day-Lewis's son.
02:41:02
Speaker
I started laughing before you got to the even funniest part of it. I was just so studied under Daniel Day-Lewis and then his son is is the is like the cherry. That's like a 30 Rock joke, a level of like, no, we're gonna like plus this.
02:41:18
Speaker
Yeah. Bringing him out of retirement, his son, you know. but We became out of retirement to do like, Craven 2. If his son was in it, he might, you know, Mr. Day Lewis Jr. I assume his name's. He plays, he plays Vulture. They forgot Michael Keaton is kind of that character, but in another universe, but not really whatever.
02:41:45
Speaker
Put him in Paul Dano, or... Put him in Paul Dano! I mean, that was me watching, there will be blood, brother. I was like, yeah, let's put him in the Paul Dano. Put that guy in there, yeah. Drink that milkshake. Get him in there like Heath Ledger got in Jake Gyllenhaal and broke back mountain. No lube. I wish I could quit you. I wish I could quit you. Is Ang Lee working on anything right now? Broke back mountain too. Finally quitting. Are they gonna...
02:42:17
Speaker
Brokeback Mountain, have you seen it? Yeah like all dies There's a couple like stomp to death. There's a couple issues with her sad doing a sequel One of the characters is dead one of the actors is dead. Yeah, there's some I don't see the issue
02:42:34
Speaker
With AI? Is that what we're doing? Harder fixes they've had to do. I don't see the issue. It's like, how do we get... They solved the Ian Holmes problem. The problem of this completely separate character who who could look like anything. It was a problem and Fedi Alvarez solved it. Everyone was wondering how are they gonna do it and they did it.
02:42:59
Speaker
And we were all happy about it. every Everyone was happy. Yeah. Go back, listen to our review for Romulus. We were so happy. I was just thinking the other night that I was like, we we should have trashed that movie hard. I think about that some. I never think I should have praised that harder. No, no. I should have went harder on that one. because like i I think we.
02:43:25
Speaker
Need to like movies movies that be happy with how hard I went on Romulus There's movies we've been negative on where I'm like, I don't know in a second March. You're also sick that day, too You're like dying. I felt like terrible. I had a chestburster in me and I It didn't even come out. That's like the it was so underwhelmed by Romulus. It's just like I'm staying in yeah I don't want to see this movie. You could just hear it from inside my chest. like And he said, get away from her, you bitch. and
02:43:59
Speaker
it
02:44:01
Speaker
Wait, you had the chest bursar inside of you? Yeah. i Oh, wait, I was thinking face hugger. Well, I told you about that date I went on with the face hugger.
02:44:13
Speaker
just wait so but there should be an alien stuck inside of you then therefore it's not a chestburster it didn't do its job it's just a chest you have an guy inside of you or
02:44:28
Speaker
going on, I don't know. There should be an alien rom-com where like a guy sees the egg and like the face hugger and he's like, oh, hello. Like he's like really, he's like, I don't want that thing in my throat. Also, I do want to say our episodes officially hit the runtime of the play Wicked. And I i mean, I think is this going to be our longest episode? Is our our longest episode, yeah.
02:44:58
Speaker
but my grand bla bla And if you wanna slam, then welcome to the jam. Everybody get up, it's time to jam now. Space Jam, my favorite musical. Yeah.
02:45:18
Speaker
City of stars.
02:45:21
Speaker
That's great. I did not even expect, I felt like we would have a decent amount of things to talk about, but nowhere in my mind was I like, this is longest episode. and we It's our longest spoiler freeze. We spent almost a full hour in the spoiler freeze section. I feel like we've gone on silly we've gotten silly, gone on tangents, but we've kind of, it's all like been tied to The movie. Our intro, we went off the rails at the very beginning and we had to like find our footing. We just got, but then we got it out of our system. Yeah. We were just feeling so wicked. Yeah. Guys, we were feeling wicked. This movie is pretty wicked though. Wicked.
02:46:03
Speaker
yeah Right. Oh, wow. Oh, fuck. Why did they end it with that? Or and didn and now I'm thinking of my signature to have ended with the cover of The Sound of Silence, that or ah the saw theme. Hello. Like I'm trying to think where would be the best play. I guess the reveal of when the the wizard is talking about the plan and then just search.
02:46:31
Speaker
a um I'm also gonna do that with the Conclave ending. Conclave, I'm not gonna spoil that.
Theater Experiences & Future Plans
02:46:39
Speaker
go Go watch it. It's still in a lot of theaters. I think it will be on demand ah next week. And then listen to the review cuz you're go wanna you gonna talk or listen to hear people talk about that the that ending.
02:46:53
Speaker
I do think people listen to these without, um, watching the movie a lot of the times. Cause our juror number two episode is like just as strong as all of our other episodes. And so I think people just like at a certain point, it was like our front room episode never like picked up, but like yeah at a certain point, like we hit a level of consistency where I think people are just listening without watching. and we thank you for that i think that is true but i i don't discount i think you know they're out there clint heads they're they're like they'll show up you know they'll be like oh what's a movie about a real train hostage situation with no real actors will be there open at night yeah everybody's there to show their wood for eastwood
02:47:40
Speaker
yeah Rock hard. Dun dun dun dun. Maybe that should be a show. Are you doing Terminator? Yeah. You ask me that every time I do this. I've done it like in four episodes. i hate just You've asked like every time was that. I want to confirm because I like change. I forgot what movie it was. Instead of doing their drama intro, I did Terminator instead. That's where it started.
02:48:08
Speaker
ah did it for our killer popes that was the theme that i wanted to that man and um but and i know how the lee to the terminator yeah mainly remember though That's why I redid, I did my own lead for when I did the Terminator theme on the Terminator Zero episode. I'm like, I don't want to learn this other lead. I'll just, it's in three, four. Okay. I'll just write any random thing in three, four, put it over and hope it sounds good. One zero like had its own theme. Kind of. It was only like, it was like, ah it was very good. It was like kind of simple. It was like three notes. Basically they repeated, but like it like had impact and it was like, Oh fuck.
02:48:51
Speaker
Hell yeah. Terminator Zero. Go watch that after you watch Wicked. They actually go hand in hand together. Okay, watch it in this order. Conclave, Wicked, Terminator Zero. I don't know how that makes sense. It'll all become clear why we ordered it that way by episode three of Terminator Zero. I think so. You'll know why. You'll get it.
02:49:14
Speaker
Yeah. clear So we love Wicked. That's where we're at. Well, I love Wicked. You love it. And I and i i really liked it. It's going to be my top 10. If we weren't going to review it, I was actually considering hiding the fact that I loved it so much from you completely and saving it for our top 10 episode review. and then surprising me with it then.
02:49:37
Speaker
yeah uh yeah i'm just debating on it and then i just texted you man i love wicked after i think on mic multiple times talking about how that movie's gonna blow i mean we all thought it was uh we got did we well we i I don't know, I guess we all didn't. I don't know what other people thought, actually. I was like, was I the only asshole? No, there were a lot of... The trailers were bad. I'm so i'm not changing on that. It was not marketed well, for at least for people like me. who What if we re-watched the trailers and we were like,
02:50:09
Speaker
I don't know, the trailer kind of fucks a little bit. This is actually better than the Cloud Atlas trailer? No, it's impossible. Better than all movies ever? The trailer itself is better. ah i i i would I need to see it again. i It wouldn't won't be in my top 10, but that's not... That's sacrilege. it's just Get out of here. Your top 10 doesn't count. Just like when someone told me my top 10 doesn't count. That's invalid. yeah so Since you don't have the most popular movie, it doesn't count. No, I'm kidding. i like
02:50:46
Speaker
I'm very really well I honestly I was kind of prepared like not to have to defend this movie I didn't think this would have turned into a big like thing if you hated this I think it would have just been honestly probably a very interesting and thoughtful discussion where we were just both I feel like we were going to have a balanced discussion on why you hated it and why I loved it. i mean um um It was a nice surprise that you like you enjoyed it, especially given the circumstances. because i thought especially during I think I was projecting feelings that I was feeling onto you while you were watching it because I was like, Doug must be hating this because I'm fucking pissed at these people.
02:51:26
Speaker
I mean, at one point you asked me if I was okay and and i i I don't think you were projecting there because I still was like physically tense from ah how worked up I was, but I was just really trying to be like, okay, I just need to like, just let myself like get absorbed back into the movie.
02:51:44
Speaker
That was one of the worst it's been in the longest time I can remember. Not you, the level of disruption. I'm really struggling to think of an actual worst theatrical experience in terms of that level of disruptiveness. i' I think Unsane would be the one for me where it was just a armed security guard. I think maybe even a police officer just in a back and forth screaming match for like a full 15, 20 minutes with this guy. Cause this guy would not get out of his seat, would not show this officer his ticket. ah He was just in someone else's seat and it was just these two yelling back and forth the whole like opening 15, 20 minutes of Unsane. Do theater have a security guard that they used to? They, I usually see a security guard there. There's like two older gentlemen there. One's like a heftier. They both have mustaches. Oh no, there's three. Um, they're all older people. They're like retired cops probably. you might have been Like two older white guys and an older black guy.
02:52:47
Speaker
There was like a guy matching that who was like sitting outside one of the theaters on his phone. They all have mustaches. Yeah. And I was like, well, he's waiting for someone, right? Security guard would at least kind of try to look more security alert or something.
02:53:03
Speaker
But ah that probably was him. I probably should have gone to him instead of the guy who sent the lose the loser. I thought you were looking for security. i like I didn't. I didn't. I would have ramped it up too. I would have like just started fabricating like they were throwing shit like you wouldn't believe like one of them threatened me. you She fucking pulled a knife. There are kids in there. And like, the security guard doesn't know how much you care about other people's children? The security guard doesn't even, aren't even, they don't even- There are kids. Like, they're throwing shit. They're saying the F word, you know. Yeah. There's children. Children here. Like, can you like do something about this? And then I hand him a gun. He's like, we're not allowed to carry what I'm like, no, you're gonna need this. Yeah. Then it would have been justified them calling you Whitey.
02:53:49
Speaker
been That's a very whitey thing to do like actually getting a cop. Yeah, it's for the children for the children I if I had seen a sick I now I'm thing like I think that if the kids guns No, no give those kids guns. Those are no if anything I arm the theater patrons. Everyone should get it. If we arm everyone in the theater, then no one will talk.
02:54:19
Speaker
I think we solved it. Yeah. Just give all the theater patrons. honestly that's all Yeah. yeah Well, there you go, Marcus Theater. Free idea. Yeah. This isn't even behind the paywall. Get rid of the texting bullshit that, you know, the phone calling thing that you had. Well, they should do the text. Like ah there should be a snitched line. It's one of the other texting or guns pick. there Literally only have your cake and eat it too, Doug.
02:54:53
Speaker
A texting hotline or we arm the patrons. stuff. I'm gonna go. Gun. Good. That's my final answer reaches. Good. Well, Marcus, your move. Yeah. Balls in your court. Yeah. Marky Greg. Yeah. Maybe stop, you know, putting so much attention into your bar and your, you know, Wednesday bingo night. And, uh,
02:55:24
Speaker
I have nipples, can you milk me, Greg? I'm just trying to think of movie quotes with Greg, like who, what are some movies ahead of Greg? Oh yeah, Meet the Parents. Succession. Oh yeah, Cousin Greg. Yeah. You gotta break a few Gregs to make an omelet. Oh man. Well, wicked.
02:55:48
Speaker
I go see it, make sure that there's not the most annoying teens behind you, and you'll probably, I mean, I guess I can't guarantee anything. I'm not, whatever that place is like, you're gonna like the way you look, I guarantee it. Don't go to Marcus Theater, just don't go there to see this movie, don't go to- It is really unfortunate that like,
02:56:14
Speaker
That's the main, like literally every other theater chain, AMC, Regal, they seem like so classy compared to Marcus. That AMC and Crestwood that I go to is like usually always packed.
02:56:29
Speaker
never fucking issue with people talking ah even that with the Marcus in orland i went there to see the smile to just fucking teens being assholes the whole movie it's like you walk into a marcus and like people just become assholes They think it's the purge. Some of the staff too, like kind of sucks. Not at the Marcus we went to, but, um, in the Orland, the Orland, uh, Marcus, there's just, I dunno, these like teens that work behind the counter that come off like real dildos. Yeah. Declaring war on teens after this, after today. Yeah. Let's get them out of here. Um, or yeah, there was, oh, so.
02:57:11
Speaker
Will you go to the sing-along version with me if I go? When, when is it? Sometime in like late December, I think. Yeah, that sounds fun. I saw a sign, I don't know if it's multiple times, but I saw a sign that said like a specific day, like December 21st or something like that. But wait, what theater is it at?
02:57:31
Speaker
um I don't know. It might be like a nationwide event. I'll have to look it up. I put zero research she goes time and research into this. hood Let's not go to a Marcus. No, I would. I would consider going to the Orland Marcus because that that one, even though, like you said, those things you said about the allocation are true. I think in terms like the actual theater inside, like once I'm watching the movie.
02:57:56
Speaker
on average it's better, but now I am just remembering when some kids, I'm pretty sure snuck in to see, uh, what was the last Miyazaki boy and the Heron and they were just being so fucked. I think they were fighting. Like there was like a way some of those theaters have like, like, like there's like levels to like, I mean, every theater has levels to the elevation of seats, but there was like a separate, like higher Seating place that they were at in the ultra screen. Yeah, it's a really weird setup There's like some off to the side seats too and like some I saw like Furiosa in a really like weird Spot because I wanted to be away from people These kids were like screaming at each other and tussling on the ground I was about ready to and it's gonna make it sound like I'm a fucking Karen who always does it No, it's just what it's really fucking bad and I can't focus on the emotionally intimate movie that I'm trying to watch, especially that beginning A Boy in the Heron is like very so yeah like
02:58:59
Speaker
Like until he gets that other world stuff, it's like, you know, it's a pretty low key movie. ah They were like straight up just like wrestling and stuff. And eventually they just got, I think there were like maybe siblings, one of the brothers was like, guys stop. And then they left. So I think they snuck in. Why would you fight in the theater? It's like, get the fuck out. Like take your bullshit out in the streets or something. Like what the fuck is wrong with you? Why did you come? Why are you ruining other people's stuff? Why the boy in the hair?
02:59:26
Speaker
like what what made you think that this is the place for your bullshit like if I got and like if I confronted someone at the theater because of how they were behaving and they like tried to fight me or something I would do what I can to be like alright let's not do this in the theater like if we're gonna have an altercation like let's yeah go outside where it's well lit there's not fucking people everywhere yeah you know it's like and someone won't accidentally die from like falling and hitting their head on the stairs or something yeah it would just be like i wouldn't want a fucking show of people that would be so embarrassing and it would just be shitty like i would automatically be in like the a more antagonistic like position if i'm disrupting a whole theater as opposed to like if i'm trying to calm the disruption and it ends up being taken out of the theater i mean like i said theaters are like the closest thing i have to church i'm not starting fights in church
03:00:24
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll go to your listener, tell me your church, I'll come there and I'll fight someone, but like a movie theater, I'm not going to do it. I think I would fight someone in church before I fought someone in a movie theater. yeah I could imagine that scenario happening a lot sooner than me fighting someone yeah in the theater where the movie is playing. like Yeah, the movie I paid to see. Yeah, it's ridiculous. But and that's a good note, I think, to end it on, where would we would fight people.
03:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, listen mother places email emails Locations and we'll tell you if we would fight someone there Yeah, be like bed bath and beyond and we'll do the sing-along version. Maybe a fight will break out there Maybe we go there just to start a fight like we sing like so much better than everyone else that they want to fight us and That's honestly one of the most common ways fights break out. We should get seats like right in front of the projector since we're both such tall people because if it's a sing-along version, people might be standing too and like dancing to it. So we stand in front of the projector, block the movie, the whole, it's just our shadows. Wait. And like, how long do you think until people start throwing shit at us?
03:01:42
Speaker
Oh, pretty quickly. I think people turn actually at the scene along. Yeah, I think we get turned on. Like we stand up. Not a full minute passes before people bring into our attention that we're blocking. Like I imagine people like address it like we don't know at first. And then if we continue to do that, like very quickly, the whole theater is staring at us. Like if those girls had pulled because there's nothing else to say, we're blocking the thing for them to stare at.
03:02:07
Speaker
But like if it it was that kind of audience, like at the single long where, you know, like it's like the real fans are there. You got to give wicked back to the fans. oh but Someone would stab us and then the whole crowd would be like.
03:02:20
Speaker
No one mourns the wicked and they burn wicker status. I was going to say like they would have like Tiki. There'd be a mob with like at the end of Frankenstein when everyone has like torches and they're like, get the monster. I think you mean the end of the substance. Oh, right. Yeah. So more current reference to referencing movie. That's almost 100 years old for Christ's sake. No, I'm kidding. Wait, is Franken. We just watch a movie that's a sequel or a prequel to something that's almost 100 years old. Yeah, Wizard of Oz is older in Frankenstein, right? Than the movie. No. Frankenstein is the 30s, right? Wizard of Oz is 30s. But that's 39, so I'd imagine unless Frankenstein is also 39. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right, you're right.
03:03:05
Speaker
um you know king kong is 33 and that's before godzilla so king kong's better than godzilla that's how i judge movies whichever was earlier it's better so like the train arrive at a train arriving at the station you're like it's one of the best better than the matrix um yeah sorcerer, better than no country for old men, um jingle all the way, better than parasite.
03:03:38
Speaker
i like i I actually could fuck with with that equation of like, yeah, just say the older things better. Anything older, and it's better than anything newer. You just put them up against each other. you know The Super Mario Brothers movie is better than the Super Mario Brothers movie. i Well, I actually agree with that one. We were talking about like doing like hated or bad movies. I would watch the 90s Mario Brothers. I think that's movies fascinating.
03:04:05
Speaker
we we should I know we talk about doing like themed months, but like, you know, a lot of it's like my work schedule, just like exhausting me and shit. So we don't always get to like commentaries, but a bad movie month would be, uh, an interesting one. That'd be good.
03:04:20
Speaker
Patrons start subscribing. I was about to say you guys Nick could quit his job. and We could commit ourselves Yeah in a way that would benefit you the listener. So like just and sign up first week's free ah I'll start teaching you guys on patreon. Yeah. Wait, we're gonna teach him guitar No, i'm just take my profession and bring it to Patreon. Yeah, you just do your work on Patreon. Yeah. I teach you guys math, English. That's about it. The two subjects I cover. That's really all you need. and Reading, you know? Yeah. I don't think anyone needs to know more than that. ah But that's a good time as any to plug the Patreon. I'll teach your kids on there.
03:05:10
Speaker
It's like virtual school, basically. Yeah. It's, it's, it's 250 a month for virtual school for your children. You cannot be sending a free trial. Find that, find that value somewhere else. That's a perfect segue for the plugs, actually. Yeah. No, that's, that's, that's, that's great. Uh, and yeah, first week's free. It's 250 a month. There's already a lot of unub subscribed. yeah I just got charged today. Oh, your week's up. ah But you're going to get your value, man, because it's not just the stuff that we dropped at the beginning of the month. There's ah ah the Batman commentary with Zoe who did. There's a commentary for an episode of the Penguin. There's some gameplay of us playing ah
03:05:55
Speaker
uh the crowd had followed but i'm about to post some stuff this weekend i'm thinking we don't you know we didn't like lay out like a set like release schedule and i don't think there'll be like this day you this stuff happens but i would say expect every month there'll be at least a couple of days where there'll just be a dump of stuff like it might one i'm not saying like there'll only be like two ah bonus things a month but they'll be like like this weekend I'm probably gonna post like three different things that I've the head to head been where there's gonna be a thing for ah the show from I the the lead up to the season finale I did like a commentary on that I kind of talked about the whole show ah I
03:06:41
Speaker
keep, stay tuned, look at the socials, cause depending on how things shake out tomorrow, I might try and do some kind of like live stream ah for the finale. Like if and all two other people who watched from like are interested in watching that together and going, apparently it's going to be crazy. I don't know. People have had screeners said that some shit happened. So where which is this the penguin? No, for from, uh, for a second.
03:07:09
Speaker
Yeah, ah the kind of ad is, it's MGM plus, boo, but whatever. Just sign up for the week trial. That's another week trial. Just sign up for week trials and stuff. Just do it. Do it. And also, you know, Doug and I might accidentally pull a Chris Evans and post a dick pic on the page. Who knows? you know You don't know what you're going to get. You never know. It's the Wild West over there. There's also just going to be this weekend for sure. I'm going to have at least one noir movie like for I don't think noir vember is just going to be in vember i might have a noir semper also where i've just been watching older movies i did a commentary for the
03:07:47
Speaker
nineteen 1943? three Maybe. I forget what year exactly it is. The movie's called Detour. ah It got on my radar ah when I heard it was like kind of an inspiration for ah Lynch's Lost Highway. I also love that movie. But yeah, Detour's great. I'm going to be uploading that that commentary this weekend, so keep an eye out for that. Hell yeah.
03:08:11
Speaker
and Was that all the plugs? Did you get the Twitter too? Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, the show's Twitter, uh, at guys got juice. And then my personal Twitter at Doug or not underscore two. That's where you find me. You can follow me on like or, ah, geez, I almost forgot the Instagram. You can follow us on Instagram at these guys got juice pod. You can follow me on letterbox at Nicholas Ewers. And I'm Nick Ewers. I'm Doug Davenport. And we're these guys got juice.
03:08:41
Speaker
ah one file um One short day in the Emerald City One short day