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00:00:01
Anora
66 Plays1 month ago
Today on These Guys Got Juice, the guys are reviewing ANORA!!! The latet film from director Sean Baker, starring Mikey Madison!
Do the guys think this movie has the juice? It's Sean Baker, so PROBABLY! Go see it in theaters!
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Transcript
Introduction and Hosts
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're These Guys Got Shoes.
Inora's Impact and Themes
00:00:23
Speaker
And we saw Inora. She walked up to me and she asked me to dance. I asked her her name in the dark brown voice. She said, Inora, Inora.
00:00:39
Speaker
What song is that? Lola. Oh. It's the one that Weird Al parodied and made it Yoda. Yoda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a few Weird Al songs where I i definitely know the parody, for like Amish Paradise sticks in my head before Gangsta's Paradise.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. um White and nerdy is in my head first before riding dirty. freak yeah Okay, it's riding dirty. I was like, wait, what what's the original? Yeah, yeah I think um ah the characters of this movie, I think would be fans of ah Weird Al.
00:01:16
Speaker
Well, Weird Al is timeless, so that I think, I think, well, I think Annie would like it, would, I don't know about Ivan. Ivan's into, he's had some interesting tastes, let's just say. Yeah, he, uh.
Movie's Limited Release and Criticism
00:01:35
Speaker
kind of a well we'll get into yeah was i was days debating i was like well i guess that's spoil area Yeah, there's a lot of this movie, I guess you and I would consider spoilers. So we're going to be pretty like tiptoey around the plot. I guess we could just get into like our basic. and um Well, you want to talk about where we saw the movie first?
00:01:56
Speaker
I mean, yeah, we took a check out to the, the music box, uh, in the, in the city. And that's the thing like this, I don't even know when the like non limited release of neat neon does. I mean, this seems to be their strategy for, for certain kinds of movies, especially like things that are potentially going to be there.
00:02:19
Speaker
awards play. So maybe like December or something, it'll it'll have a wide release. But if if it is playing by you, if it's not impossible to get to, I would definitely recommend going to see it. I mean, yeah, if you have to wait, you do what you gotta do. But like I personally would recommend doing doing what you got to do to get get to whatever closest theater by you has. I think it's just New York, LA, and Chicago that have it right now. um Really? I know the 35 millimeter is definitely just those cities, but um I think Enora might be like a super limited release.
00:03:02
Speaker
um because outside of the music packs only stop playing at the AMC River East I think that's those are the only two places yeah it's playing um I don't know how I feel about that. I mean, I, there can be something exciting about the ramp up and build of anticipation of like, wow, you're really, really waiting for this to come be playing by you. And then you're so amped when it finally is, but I err on the side of like accessibility really where it's like, I, everyone should have access to everything. Like, especially, especially a movie like this, it almost feels like, I mean,
00:03:41
Speaker
Anora's for the people, you know? let the give the Give the people anora. Yeah, it's it's very annoying these like super like doled out releases because who who are we doing this for? Like, is it just to get the early buzz out there? Like, does a movie like this need the early buzz? Is it a buzz thing or is it like trying to create some kind of certain kind of air or branding for a movie? Like, well, this is how movies that are going to be an awards contention are really like, like they want people to take it more seriously so they release it in this way like if they just did a normal wide release it wouldn't be as is is but i don't know i honestly i'm i'm just pulling stuff out of my butt guessing but um anora is playing outside of uh those three cities though so i i was wrong it does have like
00:04:34
Speaker
a decent release but still it's not easily accessible like we live right outside of like one of the major cities in the country and you have to drive into the city there are only two options you have like usually you know there are theaters in the suburbs like if this played at orland park um one of the suburbs of chicago or whatever Um, it, uh, I think it is at least I'm not too sure, but it, I think it would be a big hit.
Emotional Resonance of 'Inora'
00:05:01
Speaker
Like we live in time is like doing really well. I mean, yeah. A24 releases movies at theaters like that closer to us and they do well, you know, so like. Parasite got the same treatment, uh, that this movie's getting with its release work. Maybe they're literally just trying to like, well,
00:05:19
Speaker
para Parasite won all the Oscars. So if we just do this for every movie that we want to win. Yeah, I just don't know who it benefits um too much. But yeah, go out and see this even if you have to like if you're in Georgia and you have to drive to like Atlanta or whatever, you're in Colorado, you have to drive to Denver. If you drive to a big city out of it, you have to have a little road trip.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yeah, go with friends. Go to like a really nice theater. Make it an experience. That's what we were able to do. We spent like a good chunk of the afternoon um driving there. We you know got popcorn. we just Really having a nice time. We weren't even like super close to the screen. and it's like At times we at least for me i couldn't even fully understand like what characters were saying if i like a classical like. Theater experience cuz i had never been to the big theater at the music box but it was like oh this must have been what it was like years and years ago you know what i mean.
00:06:16
Speaker
Yeah, the music box, ah just like given the design of it, I mean, it is, it is an older, earth it's been around for for a while, but it has that, that look and in in feel. Sometimes other screens I've been there, they even have like,
00:06:31
Speaker
there There'll be like ah a guy on stage in front of the movie screen before even any trailers come on. He's just playing piano piano. And I think that's kind of how they used to do back in the day. There'd be like, you know, like some of some some kind of music playing. That's in a, it follows actually when they're going to see the movie in that.
00:06:51
Speaker
Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But they do. They do that for real at the music box sometimes. It's real. And then when when the guy is is finished, everyone applause because I mean, even even if he wasn't good at playing. And from my recollection, he's pretty he's pretty good. But even if it's like.
00:07:08
Speaker
Even if you just played Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, I'd be like, hell yeah. Yeah. just I'd just be happy to be there. Yeah. The movies. fuck And I know like I just went on that whole thing about how I think it's kind of lame that they um dole these things out.
00:07:26
Speaker
it It gave us an excuse to go there. Yeah, it gave us an excuse to go and like make an experience out of it. So it's like, if you guys can do that, you should. But it's also it does it does kind of give you like a greater appreciation for the circumstances here and in life. It's like, hey, you know we're we're near a major city and we get but finally get some advantage, you know something we can take advantage of. Yeah. It was a nice experience going making a day out of this movie together.
00:07:54
Speaker
so yeah i had a great i had a great time and then and then the movie itself i fucking love so yeah like it regardless of how the movie turned out i would have i would have had had a good time because we did a similar experience kind of like that when we went to the megalopolis screening i would say that movie not so successful ah as an artistic endeavor, but yeah you know I still had a great time doing that. This this was actually a great movie. This was made at what I assume, I think rightfully, at such a small a way smaller scale than Megalopolis, but it's like,
00:08:36
Speaker
What if she had to rebuild New York City after like a sad? I'm already forgetting what happened. to me i like yeah What if a fan shot her in the face and we had to rebuild her? and She had some like glowing eye stuff that we'd never bring back. It's just one scene where he shows it and his face glows.
00:08:55
Speaker
And we're not gonna talk about it. Yeah, they they use the same material that ah you're using for walkways to rebuild people's faces um That's happening in a Nora to spoilers for a Nora. Yes, sir. We didn't even get to the spoiler section we We're like giving all the biggest plot points away but um Yeah, this movie, man, i I had a feeling I was going to love this. It was one of my most anticipated movies of the year, just after like seeing the trailer. Sean Baker. like I haven't seen Tangerine, actually. I own it on Blu-ray. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet. I need to make the time for it. But Florida Project, that's one of my favorite movies of that year. I think it was 2017. I fucking love the Florida Project.
00:09:42
Speaker
Red rocket that was when i came to a little late fucking fantastic movie there these are just movies even if like. They make you uncomfortable you there's like a sense of comfort almost the you get from like watching the like very like simple and intimate.
00:10:02
Speaker
And you're just kind of along the ride, whether it's shaky or fun, or you know you're with the innocence of a child, and you know things that they're experiencing are wrong, but you're still like sucked up in their world and living with them and like able to capture like this beauty in this like dark place in a movie like The Florida Project, you know what I mean? and Yeah. it's um he makes a movie about characters that are victims of their circumstance to an extent or like characters that are in the situation that they're in because of just who they are as a person and it's like whether that's like good or bad but um
00:10:47
Speaker
this movie just I expected to really like it but it's something that like I thought about all day yesterday after um leaving the movie theater I you know you and I we talked about it for a little bit on the car ride home we parted ways I went and like I went to the gym and no matter like what I was putting on music, I was trying to put on podcasts. It just all fell to the background. I was getting frustrating because I was like, no matter what I'm doing, I just want to be watching Anora again. I want to be like in this world with these characters. just i was like i I wasn't ready to leave the movie when it ended.
00:11:31
Speaker
it i wanted to keep going i was like give me two more hours like let's just let's keep going i i walked out just craving more even though this is like a movie i found like deeply sad but it's like i would right now i feel like i'm in a very like and i'm talking a lot so i'll finish this soon but Right now, I feel like I'm in a deeply sad and like lonelyne lonely place in life. It's something I've been like thinking about. ah I'm like trying to make changes. I'm trying to like get in a position where i'm like where I'm less lonely. I'm thinking about like love as I'm getting older a lot more.
00:12:12
Speaker
and it's like this movie i had like a sadness to it that I felt like I could really like relate to and there's just something in Inoura where I was like she had a fight that I'm like I just want to have this fight you know it's it's just great and I'm like I i want everything to be
00:12:32
Speaker
like to to work out for her you know and it this movie like really like touched me and moved me and i haven't been able to stop thinking about it until i mean we saw the red sun reviewed the red room so that did take my mind off of it a lot because i did really like that movie like drove me emotionally but it's like now that we're back in a norm mode i'm like right back here with this movie and i'm feeling it again and i'm like I was thinking, I'm like, am I going to drive to the city this fucking week? he go see it ignore again I might. I like, I love this movie. I, I don't know if I'm gonna have words good enough to like, describe it. It might be, I don't know if it'll be my favorite of the, it might be, uh,
00:13:18
Speaker
I fucking love it though. It was the right movie at a very like sad time in my life right now that I like really needed. um Yeah. I know I talked a lot. Sorry. No, don't apologize. That was beautiful. Very well put. I mean, there's so some of the things you said I want to like Contextualize in terms of this specific movie, but I guess I'll say for for a spoiler because there was something that's what you said about that there's like a beauty I think you were talking about the Florida project specifically of like how even though the like the situation
00:13:54
Speaker
sucks for these characters. There's a kind of like a beauty to it. And like, there's definitely a lot of that in in a Nora that I felt. And I, I honestly, I still haven't, it's a big blind spot for me. I mean, um I want to go back and and watch it now, but I haven't seen Tangerine or the floor of the project. My, the only Oh, really? Yeah. The only Sean Baker I've i've seen is Red Rocket. But that movie I was fucking fan to. I mean, that's probably one of my favorite movies of this decade so far. It's it's it's excellent. And there's just a quality about that, even though it's about and following like a really scummy, awful guy. It's it's endlessly because well one, the performances in it are are so fantastic.
00:14:43
Speaker
of not just the the lead in that but then all all the supporting cast because like my understanding is like his thing is that he likes to use a lot of non actors like the once he wants it to feel real so he just gets people you know who aren't like trained you know like they didn't go to acting school or they may not the like, this could be their only credit, you know, some of the people people and in in these movies. And I think that's really cool because it does lend this like, really emotionally raw and real feeling, ah feel like, ah and obviously this movie star, I mean, I think, to my knowledge, this is probably her biggest like star, because I've seen her in others, Mikey Madison and in other stuff, but like as a supporting.
00:15:28
Speaker
once upon a time in Hollywood yeah there's one more she's also in screen five there's one other thing apparently I never watched this just a page pulled up I'll look it up apparently the ah actress who's the voice of Bobby Hill, I think it's Pamela. a Whatever her FX show was, Post-Louis, she was in that. I think she plays like the daughter or something in it, or one of the daughters. I think she has multiple kids in it. but
00:15:59
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I never, I never watched that. I just remember seeing that when I was going, going through her, her IMDB, but this is like, you know, this, this is a, this could potentially be really big for her. Like this is like a star making turn. Like she's, and she holds the care. I mean, she's because we'll talk about what happens in the actual movie itself, but the main constant through it is, is her and isn't every scene, I think.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah. And so she there's there's no problem with her at holding the screen and like holding your attention because you you're engaged from beginning to end. And for me, like like you were kind of ah ah alluding to talk like I wanted to stay with her when the movie I like that I have like this emotional attachment to her like a real person where I'm like, well, now now I need to make sure everything is going to be
Inora's Storytelling and Realism
00:16:56
Speaker
all right for Annie. So like I Everybody clapped at the end of the movie and I told you like, felt wrong to clap. We were clapping for the art, but you're like, I don't want it to end. I'm not ready to clap yet. At least like for me, you know?
00:17:12
Speaker
No, I know what you, it was almost like at at the end of a good play, everyone claps, you know? Yeah, that ah but yeah, this, I really love this movie. There's other performances I want to shout out to, but i get I'll save for, cause like I did see, probably before some other Neon movie, I did see a trailer that gave some plot points away, but I would, I mean, I recommend for pretty much every movie going as as blind as possible. um It's,
00:17:38
Speaker
I if you like movies, if you like Sean Baker's other stuff, I think you'll like this. But I think if you just like into kind of intimate character studies or just movies that are about people, you know, like, I i know that it probably sounds like kind of lame or cliche, but it's like,
00:17:56
Speaker
you know a lot of movies and movies that I really enjoy are like super plot heavy where it's like you can look at the synops where you're you're like oh this is dense there's like a lot have constantly happening in this it's not that things don't happen in a nor she she's going through she has a busy a couple of weeks or how, I think that's the time span this movie takes place in. She's pretty pretty ah ah eventful couple of weeks, but like it's not really about the plot in that way. like You are just with her for this. and and i I personally like movies like this like comparison point that I thought of. I mean, this one was like way more emotionally grueling, but like the John Cassavetes stuff I've seen.
00:18:40
Speaker
like, woman under the influence. I mean, and that movie's, like, really, really tough to watch. I wouldn't say, uh, Nora's, like, that, that level of, like, um emotional torture. I mean, there's, there's, I, you know, uh, I...
00:18:54
Speaker
could have been on the verge of tearing up, maybe but bit a bit of less crowded theater. That that could have been been happening at at the end. But like, you know, this, depending on ah how sensitive you are, and so this movie we might get get to you. I don't know, it made me feel stubborn. It's a It's about people. I don't know. I probably sound like I keep saying that, but it's it. I mean, it is. If it's not about people, it's about a person. And I mean, Nora, you know, it's her name is like, it's about her. Yeah, it's I don't know. Sorry. I was just trying to like agree with you. No, no, no. I appreciate the back because I was like not finding the words, but
00:19:39
Speaker
Yeah, I, I just, I was, I was really affected by this movie and moved by this movie. It's one of those power of cinema movies for me, almost. It's, it's like a, I'm going to name a couple other best picture winners. So maybe I'm saying this deserves a best picture win, but I said this on the drive home, but it's like a, a parasite or a moonlight where it's like,
00:20:10
Speaker
I'm watching a holy, like, original movie right now. Like, this is original to the screen. It's... There's nothing like it, I feel like. There's no IP or any, like, baggage or anything. and Not even, like, just that. There's no other filmmaker that's told this story in this way. It's... It's just a holy...
00:20:36
Speaker
unique thing from this person that I don't think anybody could replicate or could create. It's just it's like you watch Moonlight, you're like, this is Barry Jenkins, you watch Parasite, you're like, this is Bong Joon-ho. like this is This is Sean Baker. This is a Sean Baker film. No one else could have made this. You know what I mean? Yeah, This is like the this is argument against A.I. are movies like this. um You know, hold on a second. If I made a Nora that then yeah she would have like six fingers and stuff. That sounds good. And or backwards is a Rona. Rona is almost Corona. Oh, shit. We just busted this thing wide open. Yeah. Sean Baker missed out on this. it Fast and Furious movie. Is this a franchise film?
00:21:31
Speaker
and i If she showed up in the next one, that'd be pretty good. ah nora that would be good to I mean,
00:21:45
Speaker
spoilers. Yeah, I guess we don't give too much of what credit scene in a room room muscle car pulls up and ah Heard you know Han
00:22:09
Speaker
This is Tokyo Drift. I don't even remember where the Fast and Furious movies take place now other than Tokyo and in Tokyo Drift. are Are they on the West Coast? and they They're not in New York, are they?
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think they're LA. Well, she travels in this, and this she goes to. And they're in Brazil sometimes, and they're, I don't know. This is Brazil! Yeah, exactly.
00:22:36
Speaker
ah um Sorry, I derailed the whole conversation. No, I'm I just feel sorry for the listeners who haven't seen you in the they have that twist. But it's kind of like if you went into Iron Man knowing that Nick Fury was at at the end, you're like, man, I wish that was a surprise. But yeah, this is a wholly like original Sean Baker thing that I don't think could be replicated. And I know
00:23:07
Speaker
We get movies that are wholly original ideas every single year, but I don't know. Not all of them touch me on a human level like this does. It it really like worked for me. where yeah it just It was great. There's a soul to it.
00:23:22
Speaker
There is, yeah, the people feel real and they're people you want to spend more time with or like, you're intrigued by it's, and it's not just one person, it's everybody on screen. Right. It's a whole, and that that was kind of, we'll say more in spoilers, but that was the surprising part. Like I,
00:23:40
Speaker
I was expecting it to be kind of like solely, and it is focused on Nora or Annie as as she she she goes by. I mean, she's she's the focus of the movie, but like I didn't i expect the scope, I guess, that we we get from from like the these characters. It meets a lot of people. you know She interacts with a lot of people throughout this movie. Some pretty compelling people. Yeah, so definitely go see this.
00:24:07
Speaker
i I mean, it's five out of five for me. I feel like I'm pretty generous with a lot of star ratings nowadays. But I don't think this is being generous. This is five out of five. I wanted to walk right back into the theater when I walked out. If they put it on again, I would have stayed. I would have been like, Doug, drive home without me. I'm handcuffing myself to the chair. Take it over back home. Yeah.
00:24:35
Speaker
Uh, I mean, yeah, I having trouble thinking of any like, uh, real complaints I have that would like bring it a down from, especially something that, uh, I have that strong of emotional reaction to that's just like, cause that's really what I'm gauging for like most film going experiences. Like, did it affect me in this way? But like.
00:24:57
Speaker
There's, it's not just on multiple, on that that level. Like there's like across the board in terms of like, I could just be like the technical crap. How's the movie look? The performances. It's like, it's, it's given me and everything I want at every level. I almost started crying on my drive home from the gym like late last night. um It was around the time when I had texted you.
00:25:18
Speaker
um And I was just like, I can't stop thinking about this thing. And again, like I was driving home and I was getting mad at the music that was coming up. I was just like... ah Trying to think about Inora right now. it was I just wanted to watch it. I was like, nothing I'm doing is satisfying whatever urge. I was just like i was so frustrated not being in the movie. It was such a weird experience. That doesn't happen.
00:25:46
Speaker
that often for me. I think one of the last times that really happened was when I saw Us. Oh, sure. Because that was one of those movies where I was- I saw that like three times in theaters. Yeah, same here. I think I saw it three or four. But that was one of those movies where I walked out of the theater and I was just like, I want to walk right back in and watch it again. And I went to work the next day and I was like, fuck, no one's podcasted about it.
00:26:15
Speaker
i Like want to listen to people talk about this movie and that's how it was with the nor I'm like fucking film spotting like you're usually the first to do it and another Chicago podcast I'm calling you out. Where's your Nora review? You've always been there for me who in the other podcasts haven't been early get on it films spot Do you think those podcasts are waiting for the wide release? Is that is that never stop film spotting before? I I'm not ready to listen, so I wasn't sure like what their strategy is true for that. Have us on the podcast, Film Spotting, so we can dispute this. Let's litigate this. I'm sure we'd be doing you a favor. No, they're like the biggest podcast, I think. The biggest film podcast. That's like Doug Love's movies or something. I forgot about Doug Benson. right Until someone invokes that, or like like I'm like, oh, right, that's the guy who exists. Yeah, we'll just chump change until then.
00:27:09
Speaker
Until then. Yeah, that sounds like a threat. Until they have a son. Be careful. Watch your back. Yeah, like I was so desperate for like a conversation about like a lengthy one. I never find anybody on YouTube that has like a spoiler conversation that I'm looking for, so I didn't even bother with YouTube this time.
00:27:33
Speaker
Um, maybe I'm just not finding the right ones, but I'm, anytime I see a clip of like a film YouTuber, I'm less like pretty turned off. I'm like, other than what I occasionally will throw on red letter media, but they're really just covering, unless it's like some older, more obscure eighties thing that they want to talk about. It's usually just like B movies or, so or something like Shake Shack. One of them would be like, would Sha be like, yo, this movie. They have a full episode on Shake Shack. It's part of a, like, roundup of summer things they have been watching. So there's like a, like a 15 minute ah segment on it. I'll have to check that out. That's a movie not a lot of people have talked about from what I've seen, but I'd love to share it. I need to see it. yeah um it's good i think you'll enjoy it but yeah i'm glad we're getting on the forefront of this i'm gonna be putting out our podcast early hopefully we'll be satisfying some kind of need for people who have seen it because yeah i again i know i've said this a bunch but i just couldn't stop thinking about this movie i like turned off my music on my drive home for a little bit and just let myself think about it and then i started getting kind of like
00:28:45
Speaker
emotional and I never got to a full cry but I was just like it says where I'm at in life you know maybe it's kind of sad hearing that but it's like you know ah there is like a loneliness I'm dealing with that ah you know this movie. Just made me feel like I wasn't as alone.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah That's, that's beautiful, man. I mean, yeah, I don't, I mean, a lot of, I think a lot of people can relate to that. I've, I mean, I've personally also been, been dealing with, with, with some depression alone. And so maybe that's maybe, maybe this is just a movie. depressed people man if you if If you're sad, go see a norm right now. Happy people steer clear.
00:29:27
Speaker
But it's so beautiful though. There's a shot with snow in it where I was just like, God, this is art.
Director's Vision and Plot Overview
00:29:38
Speaker
This is a work of art. I'm pretty sure Sean Baker actually, before the movie started and what he had said, he referred to the movie as art or said, thank you for supporting independent art, I think. He didn't say film, right? He said art or am I wrong? I think you're right. Yeah. I was just like, yeah, Sean, this is art. Him and I are on a first name basis now.
00:29:57
Speaker
What's up, Sean? Come on the pod. Yeah, I'll hit him up on letterbox to bother him. yeah He doesn't like a lot of stuff. Do you want to get any spoilers? Yeah, let's do it.
00:30:20
Speaker
We're back. I might leave that all that in, I don't know. Or the listener missed a good chunk. We'll figure out what's better.
00:30:34
Speaker
it's crazy we had like a 20-minute cry in between the two. so We just held each other and wept. Yeah, so listeners, well, you'll know if you heard the 20-minute cry. It was all on mic. But um yeah at the time of you listening to this, you'll know how the cry turned out. It was very cathartic. And hopefully, if we left it in, you cried with us.
00:30:57
Speaker
Much like when Jonathan Davis cries at the end of daddy on corn's first record um You know, hopefully you cried along This there should have been more corn on the soundtrack for this I'll say that right now that was I was I was trying to think of what complaints I could have and that was I Yeah, there should have been. Honestly, I, I even should have been new man. He should have been bumping, uh, fucking, uh, Fred Dursa's, uh, Limp Biscuit. Yeah. I don't know if you're familiar with the band Attila. Ivan would be a fan of fucking Attila. That's like douche core.
00:31:44
Speaker
He has that playing while he's playing Xbox or something. ah ze play i I always overthink this be just because i'm i I love games and stuff when but when they're always depicted and ah a lot of shows and movies will just have some like fake game on the background. So whenever it's like a real or a game that looks real, I'm always wondering, like, hey, what is that? Where are they playing? It like kind of almost looked like Gears of War in certain scenes. I mean, it was kind of like not in focus, the the screen when when you're like, the camera's looking at it, so I couldn't tell.
00:32:17
Speaker
I actually didn't pay attention but I did notice there was a point where you're like he's not actually playing and then that's all I could fucking pay attention and then he starts playing in a clearly a way that clearly shows he's not playing he's like using one hand he's like yeah almost using it like it's a keyboard at a certain point and I'm like yeah I don't know if I would have noticed that if Duck didn't point it out to me that's That's just my gaming OCD of like, did they, they need a consultant. Movies hi hire me and I'll make sure your actors are playing their games realistically. Or are just, are Russians just really bad at video games? That's actually realistic. Like if I was to play Call of Duty against a Russian right now, you cut to him and he's just doing that with his controller. Let's look at the statistics. I'm glad this is in the spoiler free section. yeahp Russian's chime in. Spoiler section. Yeah.
00:33:17
Speaker
do you guys play games with one hand even when it's like a two joy even though all almost all games require both joysticks in both hands yeah right in I actually don't know if we have Russian listeners we have Russian listeners from Ukraine though Okay. Ukraine. Yeah. you guys What are your Russian stereotypes? Send them in. We'll read them on air.
00:33:47
Speaker
Back to you, Nora. Yeah, back back to you, Nora. Her Russian movie. Yeah, yeah there's um I don't even know if I knew that that was going to be an aspect. Part of it might have been in the trailer. I mainly just knew there was a sex worker in New York. It was Mikey Madison. And I did know from the trailer that she she gets married. I didn't I don't know that I knew it was like this was like the son of like a Russian oligarch or all that. But like
00:34:18
Speaker
um I mean, yeah, obviously I prefer like going in as as blind as possible, but I still didn't know where this was going in terms of like what the actual shape of the movie was. And we were both talking about on the ride home yesterday of like, what a pleasant, like genuine surprise it was of how like more than half the movie is like,
00:34:41
Speaker
they're they're None of that's in the trailer of like what the like other chunk of of the movie is, and that's like all the best stuff. is like go and It's just her with these with these Russian goons and Ivan's ah dads. Well, they and initially were saying that they were working for the the dad bus things went on i was like oh mom's calling the shots right yeah well even then so the the priest guy toro i think this is his toros he yeah toros he works for the family and the goons work for him so the goons don't even at least i think that's how i mean the bald guy seems like he's like
00:35:21
Speaker
a third hand guy, not even a second hand guy. He seems like he was hired by the guy who was hired by the guy who was hired. You know what I mean? I i yeah, no, he had that vibe and you're probably right. Like I, you know, I don't know how organizationally how how that that works out in in in the real world. But i I feel like that that's probably how situations like that play out. I they brief him like you're not allowed to hurt him. OK, like it go easy. And he's right.
00:35:50
Speaker
doesn't know how to handle the situation like to what degree he should take anything. Especially because they're all blindsided by Annie being there and they dot don't know what to do with her at all. like He was almost like a hired like strong man, like someone who goes in there and just beats the fuck out of somebody, but they are like, well, that's not what we're doing here. Like, it's a little less, but not hit you know, like, yeah yeah, because he definitely immediately knew what to do when they go into like the ice cream candy shop. And and it was like, OK, we'll wreck the place. He he was he like gave a look and then he was like, OK, you know, like, you know, he knows how to do that. He's probably like done a lot of shakedowns like stereotypical high picture mob.
00:36:36
Speaker
the situation of like, ah, there's a beautiful place you got here, it'd be a shame if something would have happened to it. Yeah. And he does say that too. With that accent. Every time he walks in a room.
00:36:50
Speaker
yeah And I'm like, to see, and that's when I'm like, Only in an indie film do you get the, as the movie allowed to breathe in that way. Right. Cause you're just, kidding he doesn't say that.
00:37:02
Speaker
yeah
00:37:04
Speaker
Uh, I do mean that about the indie movie and it does, it's able to breathe though. Like this movie breathes in a way that like, if this had any like studio interference, it wouldn't be allowed to breathe. You know, like all of the best shit would have been cut.
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah, we were talking about that yesterday and I referenced Cassavetes earlier. ah He didn't direct this this film, but like there is a ah vibe of this movie of like some of the 70s set New York movies and one that I kind of just thought of was, you know, it's not a similar kind of plot, but in Mikey and Nikki, you're kind of just hanging out with these guys in ah during a night and in in New York. I mean, there is a plot, one of them's like on the run from from from the mob, but you it is very just like, yeah, character-based and you're just like along for the ride. And like, there was kind of like a vibe of that, especially for the second half where she's just with these guys and they're driving around the city.
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah, they the kind of take control of Inora's narrative. It's still her narrative, but they they start, at points, literally driving. They're they're steering her towards something. they kind of They're like, all right, ah we're going to hijack this movie a little bit. It's still called Inora. You're still the main focus. Everything revolves around you. What if it cut to a different title card and it was like the Toro show? The Goons. The Goons.
00:38:35
Speaker
But then they're it's like they're like, Ivan, get the fuck out of this movie. They're like, he literally runs out of the movie. They're like, everybody's about to hate you now. So get out of here. And yeah, then it becomes a a Nora and the crew and it's it's.
00:38:54
Speaker
It's like a comedy in a way that I didn't expect it to be. It's very funny. Yeah. it's it's And they spend so much time at this one location. It feels like it turns into a play, basically. And I was like, I could watch them in this house forever. like Yeah.
00:39:11
Speaker
the Just give three hours of them figuring this out. Show me this in real time. and And I mean, a lot of shots are like pretty drawn out. A lot of long takes. And yeah, we do. There's like a couple time jump. I mean, like I said, this this movie covers like a two week period. So it's not like we're seeing every second of that. But we're with we're not we're not like missing big chunks of like what's happening with these with these characters, specifically from and Annie's point of view where we're we're there with her. Yeah and so.
00:39:47
Speaker
When we, uh, basically when we first meet Annie, um, she's living with her friend. She's working as a dancer. She isn't an escort really though. That doesn't come into play until she meets Ivan. Right. She's worked. Yeah. She's working at this club. Uh, do much outside of the club, it seems like.
00:40:10
Speaker
Well, by the way, that the whole Ivan thing went down, my understanding, well I mean, I you know, and this could just be, ah you know, the people I've I've met or heard of. But like, sometimes some clubs like that, like you have the strippers and dancers that that work there. But then they also do have certain clients that they're like, OK, well, you know, I can make more money off of them. ah This I I kind of had this say like she she definitely denies like that she isn't at all yeah any of that and I kind of was like
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, I was kind of there with her. I'm like, if that's not what you are, yeah, don't stand up for being or I mean, yeah, stand up for not being called that, you know. Yeah. I mean, to me, I took that as like a respect, like the cheats, the terminology that they because they were like saying whore and stuff that like she just doesn't want to be talked down to that way. My yeah my sense is that if she had done that before with previous people for Ivan, it wasn't like her regular like it wasn't like a she's like picking up John's every day or something and probably more like very specific clientele if she sees that opportunity and she maybe, you know, will, you know, sparingly choose, a per you know, see, you know, sees that ah opportunity makes make some money. But like, then this this whole thing with Ivan just becomes more involved. And I like the progression of that, of like how we see more and more of like, you know, cause, um, you know, it at first he's hiring her for for sex, but then it becomes like, okay, be my girlfriend for a week. And then, and then we get, you know, okay, well let's get married. And so,
00:42:01
Speaker
i I know it starts off like transactional and the being a girlfriend is transactional and you could even see like the marriage is being that in a way where it's like this in some ways could be like this is the ultimate payday but ah for at least for nora I felt like there was like a genuine love like she was feeling, like yeah at a certain point. there i in Even like early on when she was asking for money, it felt like she was like, there was an interest. That's why I was asking if like that was something she usually did because it seemed like she gave him
00:42:38
Speaker
He like asked about it and it seemed like she kind of like was secretive almost in the way she like, would does she like give him her number or something? And yeah I was just like, is this all new for her just because of this guy? Like, is she like exploring new territories, new avenues just because of like interest in this guy? Like, is she going outside of her comfort zone like immediately? Or like at what point do you think it starts to become love?
00:43:05
Speaker
and become love, love. I'm not sure I am trying to track when when that starts, because even if she has ah had previous clients that she's had sex with, I think I think I all the Ivan stuff is new territory in the sense of like being that and involved like I it most she would, you know, spend a night somewhere is is my it was kind of the the the sense I got is like she being someone's like girlfriend for the week. I don't think she was doing that with other people.
00:43:34
Speaker
Um, and so maybe around that point is when she, cause like, and, and just like they have chemistry to get, like there's, there is a cuteness and sweetness to the, even though it is blatantly transactional, there, there is some kind of connection there that you can see. It almost seems like that's the only way these two know how to operate is through money. like That's the only way they know how to build relationships is is through transaction almost. You know what I mean? like right He's fine. He's always paying people to be loyal or do things for him and then she is used to just getting paid to
00:44:15
Speaker
basically create fan fantasy relationships and stuff. Yeah. Create fantasy, like have intimate moments with people, you know, it. Yeah, it's. ah So, I mean, there could be like ah when there there is, I don't know, there's something like when they're negotiating like the money and the terms of like being boyfriend and girlfriend for a week where I was sitting there and I was like,
00:44:45
Speaker
It's hard to describe. i i I wasn't sitting there being like, this is a business transaction. I'm like in some weird way, like this feels. Yeah, foreplay. There's like a bit of like romance at foreplay is better than I was going to go to romance, but foreplay is a bit better. Yeah. Like they're kind of flirting with, as they say, the prices are like that the and whole back and forth of like.
00:45:08
Speaker
I, you know, I would have done it for 10 and like, oh, if I was you, I wouldn't take less than 30. You know, like there's something cute about that. And I think she is whether it's fully become love. I think she is, you know, she she's endeared by that. Like, I think she likes that and she likes him.
00:45:26
Speaker
Maybe it's by the, because like you said, even the the pitch for marriage, it's not like he sells it as not transactional. He's, you know, telling her like, yeah, I got to go back ah home to to Russia, but if we get married, you know, we should basically just have a green card marriage. Like that could be a solution.
00:45:46
Speaker
to me, but his tone and the way he's pitching it, like I understand how she could start to think it's ah real. because like it seemed It's not just like, I need to marry someone to stay here. It almost is it has the tone of, like I want to marry you.
00:46:02
Speaker
Yeah, I want to stay here with you. You're the person I'd if I'm going to stay here, I'd rather be here with you. Not just like I need anyone to keep to ah facilitate my my plan. I i want to do this with you specifically. Yeah, I want to share. You're the person I want to share my company with. um I what's it called?
00:46:24
Speaker
ah Also, and for her, like even though, yeah, there is a transactional element to it, it's like thinking about like her circumstances and where she's at. like I mean, she does need the security. yeah know it's like That is, for her, like a part of it. it's like ah this for it's like I don't have to go to the club anymore i don't have to do all of these things it's. She she would have a sense of security that that's not there almost you know she has ah a lot of like struggles that she may be having or whatever in life.
00:47:03
Speaker
um It could be gone, which but as I'm saying that though, the movie doesn't really depict Inoura as someone who's like struggling or has it super really hard. like I don't know what the typical New York apartment looks like, but it seems like her place is probably like average. or deep It's not like she's like living in a you know like tenement house. like that it's She seems like she probably does okay. ah but More so I guess like if I'm taking this leap with you, I'm gonna need security, you know? Right. It's like you can't uproot me for a week and not offer me like not give me some kind of like blanket here, you know?
00:47:43
Speaker
Right. ah Yeah, for yeah. ah And I think it's very intentional of like, when she's talking to her friend, ah that she's like talking about themes for the honeymoon, she like brings up a Disney princess thing, ah or or her friend says and she's like, Oh, you know me so well, of like, that this is and and I think even the description on letterbox IMDB describes as like a fairy tale. A Cinderella ortonderella's story. Cinderella story, you know, kind of like Cinderella man. So, you know, she goes in in boxes with with Russell Crowe and I think Paul Giamatti is like her manager or something. it's It's one of those boxing, it's like Rocky basically. This is this is Sean Baker's Rocky in a way. Yeah. Kids gonna win awards then.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Yeah. And then in a few years after like six or seven sequels, they'll like kind of do like a legacy sequel where it's like the next generation and ah Nora has to like kind of train the next, yeah you know, like sex worker. They're going to fight Ivan's kid. That would be pretty satisfying, yeah actually. Yeah. Two villains named Ivan in these franchises. Mm. Coincidence conspiracy. i think I think this whole movie is a nod to Rocky.
00:49:01
Speaker
God damn it. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. Anyway. No, but of what what I was saying about the fantasy aspect, because it's interesting, the juxtaposition of like I invoked earlier of like basically her job, like, you know, sex, just the term sex worker covers a wide variety of like services or things they could do. But the main through line is you kind of, they kind of are providing a fantasy for their client, even if it is no pretense and purely transactional on the face of it. They're at least giving the image of, I'm enjoying giving you this lap dance or i've I, you know, this is good. so You know, I'm, I'm, I'm deriving pleasure from the sex I'm having. Like they're kind of act, there's an acting really performative quality to it. They do to create this fantasy. They are weirded out by it to an extent. like you There's a conversation that they have where she's like, they ah this guy said I look like his 18-year-old daughter then paid for a lap dance or something. like What a creep. and it's like Oh, sure. I'm and i'm sure they get like creepy weirdos like that in the club all the time. but they have to you know You want their money so you're not going to call them a creep to their Yeah, to your point. Like, yeah, it is an act, you know, they have to like put back these feelings and save it for after the lap dance, you know, when they're with their friends. But like, yeah, in the moment, like, they're like, oh, fuck, this dude's weird, but they can't show it. I got to make I still got to keep them happy. ah So but then she gets to indulge in her own fantasy fantasy, like with with this this marriage. And I think it longed the point somewhere at that
00:50:45
Speaker
point with whether it's in that week but after the marriage ah or at some point when during that week when she definitely has feelings for him at at that point with the week that she's like being paid to be his his girlfriend but then yeah it it definitely becomes real for her like like she she buys into the fantasy. yeah And I don't think for Ivan it was ever real, right? Like, I think he liked her. Ivan is very immature. Oh, he's a fucking, I thought there was going to be the reveal. He was a literal teenager or something. I know he he behaves like he's in high school. That's how immature he is. And then they had that whole conversation about age and I was like, Oh, is he lying about being like 21 or something? yeah
00:51:34
Speaker
I was just like, OK, this is a relationship because it's like he's 21, but he's behaving like I would have when I was in high school or something like
Character Dynamics and Relationships
00:51:45
Speaker
that. Like there's a relationship that clearly won't be able to happen for one reason or another. His is something that it's like, oh, his parents actually won't allow this to happen and he's going to let them not allow this to happen.
00:52:01
Speaker
but And he knows that when he like initiates all this. And he's like, you know, but he's living in the moment and taking advantage of the moment and fucking just soaking it up knowing that like, ah yeah, this is the fantasy. He's living in the fucking fantasy, but he is making his fantasy her reality and messing up her reality in the process.
00:52:28
Speaker
but it just and it's because he's just an immature he's an immature kid he like can't think ahead he can't think about anyone else he's careless with other people's feelings and it's just like i don't know because i just think about like dumb things I did when I was in a relationship in high school when I'm like oh my parents don't want me to see this girl because she's bad for me but I'm gonna sneak out of the house and walk three miles to her house to go see her and it's like you know like yeah in that moment it's like nice to see her and everything and it's cool but it's like I'm gonna get in a shitload of trouble if my parents find out it's like
00:53:08
Speaker
not going to work out well. This relationship's already like on the rocks or like kind of like shaky like we're in rough waters. It's just but you don't like accept that until life makes you accept that and you're just not in the relationship anymore the only thing i was just so surprised by with his level of immaturity is how much he gave into his parents i was like oh so he's not even really rebellious he's just Howard on top of immature
00:53:42
Speaker
his rebellion last through of like he'll be indignant to Taurus and Taurus is hired goons because he knows he can get away with it. Probably like that, like he knows that, like, OK, my parents are going to send Taurus. I'm just going to tell him the fuck off. Then when they get here, I'll have to like concede and do. But until then, I'm going to be a fucking, you know, in in indignant little prick and. Or he's not even thinking about that his parents are going to find out. He doesn't care because he's just, he's getting what he wants in the moment and like repercussions aren't a thing that's on his mind. He's actively ignoring, react like the phone, even Annie keeps it like, are you going to answer? Your phone's been blowing up. i
00:54:29
Speaker
I've like done that were like my parents have been trying to get a hold of me where are you and i'm like at some girl's house not some girl it was a girl is dating i was just hang out the random girl like is that like my ex's house or something and it's like you know my parents know and i'm like it's just.
00:54:45
Speaker
it's such a high school thing to do i was like wow and ah at a certain point too i was like, will you could take the the like romeo and juliet route where it's like they're gonna ride this to the end but that's why i'm like some on each other more the fact that the, These forces are trying to pull them apart that like you double down like if he was actually rebellious His parents telling him he can't do this. He'd be like, no, I love her Yeah, but yeah exactly. But he abandons her and just be the only just Coward. It's like yeah, he is immature and he's a coward. It's crazy that he's literally running from responsibility in his consequences. and Yeah
00:55:27
Speaker
it's so perfect of how when they finally find him that he's so drunk and like out of it that he's just like just a passive husk basically and like they have to they have to hold him when they're taking him to court I like the the joke of like their lawyers like okay like so she's she's the wife and then uh who who are you bushing to to agor and he's like i'm just holding him the lawyers i was like i don't know what that means
00:55:57
Speaker
Also, shout out, Igor. Yeah, he broke his nose and right. Or the one who broke his nose was what? Garnik. Yeah. Yeah. She kicks him. And then ah what does she do? The Igor, she bites
00:56:30
Speaker
Yeah, well, because he's however many hours removed from having this concussion. And then he just took some, I mean, but presumably those were like some pain pills, because he said it was his, uh, I guess it was his grandma's prescription. So just some pain medication. Didn't eat anything on that pain medication just to gulp that down and he fucking puke it in the car. Yeah. It was so gross and it's a lot. And then it smells, I know it smells crazy in there. Yeah.
00:56:59
Speaker
Like I'm not getting back in there then you cut to their faces covered it's it's so good but um yeah, but the other guy I go or he's like this secret heart in this movie and it's like he's the one where
00:57:21
Speaker
She is the character arc with him almost in this movie. It's like he has an arc basically. And a lot of it is, I mean, they do talk and interact, but so much of the development of that arc is almost just like little gestures and facial expressions of like, he has dialogue and he talks, but he's, he,
00:57:44
Speaker
He probably is just generally more, he's probably a quiet guy when he's not working, but on on the job he's probably, you know, more tight lipped. But like, you can tell the little moments where he does try and say something to her, or even whether it's to reassure, he's like trying to find some kind of comforting word or something to her and she'll she'll always like throw it back at him like, no, like don't talk to me. He kind of likes it, though, at the end of things. He's like won over by Inora. He's like, hi could and I could take this abuse for the rest of my life. it's And I get it. i would I would let her be mean to me. Then ah at the very end, though, when um she makes the move on him and they start having sex, like
00:58:28
Speaker
Before she starts crying though, is he pulling her face closer to try to kiss her in that moment? Is that what's happening there and she's fighting it and then that's why she starts hitting him and then starts crying?
00:58:42
Speaker
I would that was my read of it. I'd be interested if I have that same takeaway of rewatching it. But yeah, that seems like the order of operations that that I saw like that. it's It seems like he's trying to to pull her closer and then maybe something with that just like triggers her you know because this is all just just happened. All the fucking Ivan stuff. So obviously she's still feeling some kind of way ah about it. So probably that just like brings all this up. And that's when she starts hitting him and and crying.
00:59:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, maybe she didn't want it to be like, intimate like that, you know? Then she's like, i I'm using you as a dildo right now, basically. Yeah, just like no kissing, you know? And it's like, that might have been breaking down like a level of intimacy, crossing an intimacy like boundary that like,
00:59:30
Speaker
she couldn't handle or didn't want being crossed. Well, especially right at this moment of like, she had probably already crossed, I mean, she definitely had, she's never married a client for anyone before. So like, she's already crossed an emotional boundary with someone before, and that ended horribly for her. Like, it it like like really fucked up her life, you know? like ah And so, yeah, this she's gonna,
00:59:57
Speaker
She's probably gonna need some therapy here to talk to someone about it. But uh, I don't know. Agor's there. He's gonna hold her. He's very... I felt comforted by him holding her. I'm like, that's right, Agor. Well, even though it was a really sad moment, like... There's something beautiful about it, isn't there? There was, well, there was something I like, and I don't know if this was the intention of Sean Baker, but I was like, there was something to it where I'm like, she's deciding to have sex with this guy. Like it's the first guy in the movie where like she is coming on to them. Like it's not someone paying, paying her. She has, is like exerting some control in the Because the whole movie, and even just the part where she's being driven around, she's pretty, like she doesn't have any way to combat this. It's just she- It's on the plane when she doesn't want to get on the plane. Like she even tries to put her foot down of like, yeah, I'll get a lawyer. I'll fucking fight this divorce. And the mother, the mom immediately shuts that down. She has no choice in any of this. So like she has this one opportunity to exert like some control over her situation.
01:01:05
Speaker
And it just ends so sad. And then you just walk out of the theater with that ending, you know? Do you think they'll stay together? iger in I don't think so. um I think they have their moment there and I think it ends shortly after that and she Just moves on probably you know tries to get some kind of a fresh start distances herself maybe from the club ah that she was at those might find a new place or place kind of like a new group of people maybe even like moves to a different town um I mean
01:01:45
Speaker
This is a pretty like heavy traumatic event. like She thought things were going to turn out one way. She had expectations that were like given to her. like shit It wasn't something she set up for herself. Someone gave her these expectations and then they were Crushed not easily in a very hard and blunt and long Pro long like drawn-out way and then it's just over and you have no power No say you can't even contact these people. There's a little closure and it was you you get take k out of it and that's it Yeah, and you didn't even get closure on your end like in any way that would be satisfying it's like
01:02:31
Speaker
Such a hard hit if you kinda like. You know i'd imagine she's probably down for a couple days but. Gets up pretty quick and gets back at it pretty strong and starts over and maybe makes a few changes i don't know what the changes would be but um i think.
01:02:53
Speaker
She has different things going on in her life after this. Maybe like her line of work doesn't change, but change of environment, change of people. Yeah, ah I could definitely see see that being okay. I was just started thinking about like the how fucking heartbreaking it is and how she plays of like, because there's multiple moments as they're going to all these places looking for Ivan and as she's hearing what the what what these guys are saying ah about him of like how much, how many times I've had to deal with his fucking child as ass and like all the, all the
01:03:30
Speaker
fucking stunts and shenanigans and, you know, hissy fits he's thrown in, in the past and like, there there could be moments where you think like, oh, she's about to, like, accept it that like, yeah, this this wasn't real and and and it's over, but she's trying to like, hold on to she almost gets more desperate for it to be real and to hold on for it, the longer it goes that even when they find Ivan at the club and he's like just so far gone ah with, I forget who that girl is, who's her nemesis, Diamond or something is giving him.
01:04:07
Speaker
a dance, but like that like she's still trying to be like, it's none of this matters, Ivan, it's okay. like come Come on, we like tell them that we're- Yeah, we're married. We're not getting a divorce. like she ah All the way through to up to the courthouse, like she's trying to just like, come on, Ivan, please. like like Say she's pleading and begging for him to like ah a validate her feelings but also like stand fucking stand up you know like stand up for her stand up for something like you know it would still fucking suck but and would it would if he could at least like be a fucking man and tell her to her face of like I'm I fucking suck I'm sorry I really just I knew that this couldn't work and I was kind of just like
01:04:54
Speaker
acting out and partying until I had had to go home. He can't take accountability because he's a fucking child. Just zero accountability and he's gonna get like little to no long-term repercussions from this. at all like his parents were scold him but that too because even his mom they're like when when I go after the you know annulment paperwork is filled out and he has to take her home he's like I think I even should apologize and and yeah the that like fuck Yeah, yeah, you should the little should. And the mom is like, no, he he will not a apologize. and And it's like, shouldn't you want your son to learn a lesson and like you have to apologize? it's It's more just like this this like privileged class thing, probably because like the mom definitely doesn't think someone like a Nora and he's like pretty much doesn't see her as human. He's not a person to these people, but she's a fucking title character.
01:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't see this movie being named whatever the mom's name is. I called Ivan. he's not He's not even in a good chunk of the movie. du a Most of the movie is not him in it. He's a fucking dildo. God, he sucks so hard. um but Yeah, and there are even moments too where I was like, yeah, this could work out with a Nora like, winning in some way. Because when she brings up as the the court battle thing, I was like,
01:06:29
Speaker
Yeah. And a decent lawyer could make a thing out of this because it was perfectly legal. He asked her to marry her and they have the this is a this is a legal marriage marriage. But then it's just immediately stomped out. of Yeah. No, I'm not doing that. kill Everybody you love. And then I'm just like, but then honestly, I'm like, yeah, that is ah kind of the beauty of this movie. That that is how it would play out,
Life's Hardships and Setting
01:06:56
Speaker
probably. It there wouldn't be the little person would fucking lose in this situation. and And it's I don't know. It's kind of like a no country for old men situation for me, where I'm like, yeah, this is how it would play out. Like the the people I'm following would lose like just. They're fighting a battle. They can't win, unfortunately. Like, yeah, their how the house always wins. Like how are you going to that much wealth and power? Like, how could you possibly
01:07:26
Speaker
Stand up to that. Yeah, and there's something like I that I can really appreciate in a movie where it's like but No, this is how harsh life would be. This is you would you're learning a lesson We're not gonna be do the the movie cliche movie thing of like the little guy stood up to Goliath and he won It's like no no real life Goliath wins like like most of the time 99% of the time Goliath this is gonna fucking stomp on David If Goliath doesn't win, it's a fucking fluke. Yeah. If something went wrong, if Goliath doesn't win. Goliath like fucking tripped or did some shit that like really gave the you this like crazy, ah no odds chance, but yeah. Exactly. um You got any more thoughts on Anora? Anything you want to talk about?
01:08:18
Speaker
suffering on top by my not kick of what this is I was just very moved by this movie. um The performances are so good. And yeah, I do. I really do want to see it again. um um maybe i'll respond even stronger the next like the next time is when I'm gonna cry for real maybe I don't know I have a feeling the next time it's gonna get me I really I might make my way out to the AMC River at East to see it again I'll keep in contact with you to see if you want to make that trip with me maybe we don't have to drive we can like take the train and walk there it's 20 minutes from reland station
01:09:02
Speaker
And I just think the parking situation there is kind of sucks. So it might be easier to yeah just just public transit or lift there. i've I've walked every time from the metro and it's like it's a 20 minute straight walk down one street. You walk down Michigan, then you turn right on Illinois, I think is what it is. And you're like, boom, right there. And if we did lift, it's a two minute lift that's like $7 or something. So it's like,
01:09:31
Speaker
I'd be down to make a trip or something like that. Maybe we can podcast on the train a little bit. Oh yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, I don't know if that's allowed. If you can legally, you should be able to do something like that. There's quiet cars, I think. So as long as we're not in a quiet car, we should be good. I think what I really want to do, too, is I'm hoping this movie is in theaters for the holidays. I want to catch this in a full theater around here, Orland Park or something. I think I'm going to see this in theaters at least two more times.
01:10:04
Speaker
it uh and it's weird i'm i'm planning for it like it's an event like i'm looking forward to the future not like i'm gonna see it tomorrow or or whatever it's like it's almost like i'm like planning to see a band or something it's like i don't know i I just, I want more. I'm glad this movie exists. It's the right time of year too. It feels like this would hit even like better around. Yeah. Cause like, even though it's not a, well it is snowing at the end. And yeah as we all know, snow means Christmas. Uh, but, but.
01:10:38
Speaker
to me, it's a perfect Christmas time movie because it's cold outside. Yeah, it's cold. But for I just mean emotionally, like the Christmas movies that I graduate gravitate to are like the really kind of melancholy, like better if there is any kind of like Happy is almost kind of like bittersweet. Like that's why I like the holdover so much. Cause I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Christmas should be like a Charlie Brown Christmas. It should be kind of a bumper, but that that that's what Christmas feels like to me. No, it, this feels like it could be like, um, Christmas. Well,
01:11:19
Speaker
It's a it is a little bit after Christmas, actually, because it's definitely wintertime. There's a New Year's Eve party. Oh, right. then that is There is that New Year's. I forgot that that so that does start, I think, a couple of days after Christmas or does it start on Christmas? We'll have to pay attention. How far removed from Christmas is this movie? Is this a New Year's movie? And if it takes place after I'm willing to concede and call it a New Year's movie, but like if it's a holiday movie. Yeah, if it takes place after Christmas, can it be a Christmas thing? like Call it a seasonal winter movie. They won't even fucking let us say Christmas movie anymore. It's for the seasonal depression, seasonal depression movie. Yeah.
01:12:03
Speaker
i I mean, yeah, this will probably go up there on like my Christmas watches. I don't know why. I just imagine like driving to the theater when it's like pitch black at 4 p.m., you know, slightly cold and going to see this at a packed theater in Orlando. Say 4 a.m. 4 p.m..m.
01:12:27
Speaker
um It's like, damn, what theater is that? They got those overnight depression screenings. I mean, that was Avatar the Way of Water for me. There should be a 24-hour theater. Now, as I said, that was like, oh man, that place would be gross. Let's not do that.
01:12:43
Speaker
maybe nah i'm gonna backpedal i'm gonna just not say what i was gonna say um but uh no i just imagine like you know same thing as like when i saw la la land um just late night a little bit before christmas ah dark outside maybe it's snowing just drive into a packed theater around awards season, around Christmas time, to just go see a movie with a bunch of people that are just in the spirit for a movie. you know I don't know. that's just There's an energy to a Christmas time or a big awards season movie, um like a La La Land or like ah a 1917 or something. you know yeah to Two fucking losers, two non-best picture winners.
01:13:35
Speaker
Uh, speaking of, ah of, of, uh, I mean, that this year I feel like is going to be at least for so much of 2024, even though I've.
01:13:46
Speaker
I think this is like one of the best years for a film and in recent memory in terms of like just so many movies that I just truly, truly love and are like all timers now. But like in terms of like the award circuit, like there there really hadn't been like a clear front runner, but like i it kind of seems like a Nora has a pretty good shot of at least getting nominated and down the line for for everything.
01:14:13
Speaker
Yeah, the Brutalist is when I'm hearing a lot about people saying like, this is going to win best picture. But I'm right here right now just saying, let's give it to the small movie this year. Let's give it to Inora. Oppenheimer won last year. That's a pretty big movie.
01:14:29
Speaker
I mean, yeah, that was like a block, but even though it's about a serious subject and it's like a movie for adults, like it, it's, it performed like a blockbuster. Coda was the year before that was a smaller one. Let's, let's give it to a better, smaller movie. So, so, so this is according to variety, these are the front runners for, for best picture right now. Anora Blitz. Is that Sorsha Leronan movie? Or I think it may have seen trailer for that. The Brutalist, a complete unknown. I'm not sure what that is.
01:15:00
Speaker
l man Yeah, because there's stuff on here that's not out yet. Conclave, which I didn't know had to any kind of like award buzz. Conclave, I've seen it. listeners Go see it. I want to see it this week. I don't know if everyone's going to love it. um I gave it four out of five on letterbox. It's so it's a fucking movie made for me.
01:15:20
Speaker
I dug it. I'm excited to see it. Go see tonight. ah Dune part two makes sense. Emilia Perez. I think that's Zoe Saldana. That might be the director of the sisters brothers or something. I'm not sure. ah Gladiator two. I mean, it makes sense. Gladiator one was nominated for a lot of stuff. The room next door. Is that ah Tilda Swenon and someone else or something?
01:15:47
Speaker
I feel like that was an indie that came out. Can't wait to review that and do another room where it happens. You know, for a second, I forgot we were recording too. we We're just having such a natural conversation. There's mics here. Oh my God. We have a podcast. yeah That's crazy. like Snap back into reality for a second. I was just like listening to everything. Oh, there goes Grammy.
01:16:12
Speaker
I don't, I have heard of, but have not seen like basically all of the movies you've listed so far. Oh, and here's the last one, which isn't even out yet. And I'm sure is going to just sweep up and be everyone's favorite. Wicked.
01:16:28
Speaker
Why is that on there? Dune Part 2 isn't on that list? No, but Dune Part 2 is, but like, take Wicked off and put Challengers on there. Like, why is a Luca Guadagnino movie not like... Yeah, take Inora on there twice. Double its odds. Yeah, I think that's how it works. War placement it has. The better shot it is, yeah. People could vote for either Inora or Inora.
01:16:57
Speaker
I mean, that could vary. There could be two movies called Moana nominated for best picture ah next go around. And they will be based on what I've seen. They look both look like front runner capabilities. Yeah, exactly. um What's it called?
01:17:18
Speaker
Yeah, I can't think of any other movies I would and put up there on that list that I've seen so far, besides Challengers. Of my favorite list of favorites like and things that like seem like that they're the kind of movies that get nominated, I'd say Enora is the top. I do think there is a real possibility that Demi could get us a substance nom, but I don't think the movie overall will, because like like I feel like Oh, I don't. Yeah, I don't think the movie will get a best picture. no Genre stuff is like weird because like, even though we live in a world where shape of water won best picture, it wasn't like then immediately the camera was like, well, obviously any horror monster sci-fi stuff, we're definitely going to like, it's going to have a really fair shot. It's more like.
01:18:11
Speaker
Really specific movies and then even then it'll be like in certain care because like even though get out one Best screenplay that year it came out. It wasn't nominated for other stuff. I don't think it wasn't like nominated for like acting or was different It was nominated for, no, it wasn't nominated for best picture. That was, I'm thinking of the wrong year. Get Out was 2017. So yeah, that'd be the 2018 Oscars. Yeah. I was combining the Black Panther, Black Klansmen year. Maybe Get Out did get a nom.
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm looking it up because now that I said that I was like, no, it didn't get a best picture. No, it was nominated and directing. OK, well, I think just because that was just such an undeniable like splash by by appeal and it had so much buzz, even though that was I was like an earlier in the year release, it still was like, well, yeah, obviously this is getting nominated. That makes sense.
01:19:09
Speaker
i Could see so here are movies. I could reasonably see getting Best picture nominations or best director nominations I don't think they will based off of the list that you just gave me but even then let's get that Bob Dylan movie off the fucking list I haven't seen it, but we don't need that on there, but there's ah already a Bob Dylan biopic Yeah, I don't know. We don't need more Xiaomi on our best picture lists um but uh ah I mean, you could keep Dune on there, I don't care. But, uh, but do we need him twice? Yeah. No, that's what I mean. Keep Dune, get rid of fucking Dylan. But so, Ghostlight, um, a movie- I still need to see that. A lot of people I haven't seen. I don't know, like, if the people voting will have it, like, fresh in their minds since it came out over the summer, but I could see Ghostlight getting one.
01:19:59
Speaker
um I don't know why I could see we live in time getting like, you know, ah sometimes those sappy movies get these nominations I could see we live in time getting like, because didn't the blind side get like nominations. Yeah, it's not like as offensive as like the blind side or like a green book but I could see it potentially getting some kind of recognition, especially since it is A24 putting it out. I feel like they like to toss love their way. And then in the directors, or ah no, Society of the Snow is another one. um I could see getting noms. and then ah But that came out like super early in the year, but I mean, that'll probably get like four in film if it doesn't get any kind of ah
01:20:46
Speaker
Best picture now, but ah I would like to see kinds of kindness get a director nod. I mean, in your ghost stuff has been consistently nominated or win stuff, but is this going to be the, the, cause it almost felt like in a, in a, in a Todd Phillips esque provocate, you know, provocation because as, as we know, he's the main example, I think of when I think of provocative makers. But Jorgos, doing kinds of kindness, almost felt aggressive in in the manner of like, oh, you're going to give me fucking awards consideration, huh? like for yeah Well, what about this? This is pretty off-putting. What do you think about this? Sometimes that does get rewarded, though. You know, like oh the Nirvana's of the world. I like the cut of your jib. Yeah. um What do you think you think society of the snow has? Best picture chances? It seems like the talk on that had died, but like,
01:21:42
Speaker
It feels like a Best Picture movie. it like I haven't seen it. It seems like the kind of movie that could but wasn't it already like it didn't become available for pretty much anyone until this year but it It won or was nominated for some kind of thing last for for last year. Like I think it had. Oh, was it last year's award? I think I think did it win school? I've only seen it. on I've seen it on list for this year. um But yeah, you just warned. I remember seeing its name and being like, what's that movie? And then everyone's like, it's not out yet. It's I feel like you're right, actually. It was nominated for two Oscars.
01:22:21
Speaker
Oh, so that, yeah. International film and best achievement in hair and makeup. Oh. So it lost to like what zone of interest or anatomy of a fall or
Film Preferences and Awards Discussion
01:22:30
Speaker
something. So. Zone of interest was best international, right? Was that this year? I don't know how time works. I could never remember one one like a screenplay and one one ah foreign film. I can't remember which one. An anatomy with screenplay, zone of interest was international. Okay. but yeah I think that's how. And society of the snow.
01:22:49
Speaker
I guess I was completely wrong. That felt like an awards movie. It seems like that just nobody paid attention to it at all. like Well, it was an awards movie for a very different year. Yeah, but no, like even the year it came out, it didn't get like best picture at all. Like I thought that a movie like that would. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen him much like it, but it sounds like picture bait. It sounds like the kind of movie. Like in 1917, we're all quiet on the Western front, you know? It was so quiet.
01:23:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's the Conclave director, too. I was like worried about recommending it to you at first, because I was like, don't you like hate that guy? Oh, I don't hate him. I just like making fun of the reprehensible piece of shit now. These movies are too quiet. No one's talking about how loud it was on the other front. I don't even look to the West. Yeah. This guy just isn't making movies for me.
01:23:45
Speaker
And then you're like, oh, voting on the Pope for me. Yeah, that does actually sound like my jam. What other movies do I think could potentially be I mean I wish I don't think it will I I really wish bike riders had that kind of i was a bike kind of movie like like it it should everyone go watch bike riders feels like there should be variety on this list and it's like let's not just have all the fucking artsy fartsy movies take it up but you know I don't know
01:24:21
Speaker
Like, the Brutalist just sound, I'm probably gonna love it, but it just sounds so artsy fartsy. Like, let's get, you know, something smaller or something fun on there. Or if you are gonna put artsy thing, put do like a weird art, like The Beast. Maybe that could get an international film nom, which would be cool. i think I don't think, I don't know who just has been distributing or has the the rights to that. I feel like they haven't been been pushing it the right way because it it even though it's like weird and kind of sci-fi like it almost feels like cloud atlas adjacent like it it does have some elements that seem like it could be the kind of movie that would
01:25:04
Speaker
get awards attention if they were like pushing in promoting it the right way, which they're they're not really. So probably won't the movie that's pushing for foreign film or that I've seen like advertise that they're pushing for foreign film or international film is a kneecap. And that I need to see that I'm, I know it's probably not going to win, but kneecap is going to be the one that I'm going to be. That's like the underdog of the independent film category. I'm probably going to be rooting for.
01:25:32
Speaker
It seems like it has a good chance of being nominated. I think it will be nominated. I just don't think it'll win. ah I can't see a movie like kneecap beating whatever prestige movie is going to come out of ah whatever country.
01:25:49
Speaker
All quiet on the Western front, too. Still quiet. um Yeah, I'm trying to see if there are any international films right now that I think could potentially get it. I'm not seeing much on here now but they might not have come out yet or I might have just missed them.
Episode Recap and Recommendations
01:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. So you want to wrap up our episode though? Yeah. I think, I think we had a pretty comprehensive discussion and hopefully, you know, if it is by you now and it's worth, worth the check, uh, journey. I mean, you stayed till the spoilers or whatever, but, uh, yeah, I just really hope more people are able to see this, this movie. So that that's, that's all I gotta say.
01:26:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think we did a pretty good job conveying and conveying how I felt at the beginning, and we did this movie Justice, I think, but it's a beautiful movie.
01:26:57
Speaker
um fucking rules, can't wait to watch it again. We'll probably talk about it a lot more on the podcast. um I think it's probably going to come up as you and I check it out and as we get closer to awards season and um um I'm going to get on you about watching the Florida Project now. I try not to get on like My movie friends I try not to get on about movies because I know like they're on their own movie watching journey that I'm like, you know, it's very sensitive and you don't always want to interrupt it. But it's like, I didn't know you hadn't seen the Florida project. And it's like, I was afraid to say that I had, I was like, I'm going to get jumped. The, just for the William Defoe of it all, I feel like you need to see it. Oh, I fucking love Willem Defoe. And I, that's, I mean, there's other reasons I've been wanting to see it, but he's a big supporting actor nom for that movie. It was like, pretty cool. Is that the only nomination of Sean Bay? Wait, Red Rocket didn't have nominations, right? I mean, like Oscar award, probably some Spirit awards, but like, Yeah, I don't know if it got Oscar love.
01:28:08
Speaker
um They weren't ready for it. No, but they're ready now. I hope he gets it. I hope he rides this movie all the way home. Just fucking. Yeah. ah Bravo, Sean Baker. I know I've said that ah um ah a couple of times towards a lot of filmmakers. so I got to get more creative with what I'm saying. But ah I mean, you always give me a.
01:28:37
Speaker
meaningful and unique experience with your movies and this is ah no different than anything I've gotten. and i've I myself have to watch Tangerine. um I've heard nothing but good things about it.
01:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, um i I need to to to go back and watch that and and the Florida Project, but i was I was very, if it's even a fraction as as impactful as is this, i'm probably it's probably going to resonate with with with me a lot.
01:29:06
Speaker
um And it just seems I, the main, you know, the very different movies, the main through line that I would say for Red Rocket and Inora is that it's just like the performances are so compelling that you just like can't look away. You're just like, I need to keep following where the, and it's especially impressive in Red Rocket cause he's such a like slime bag that I shouldn't want to keep watching watching. But like, that's how good the performances and the movie is. And I'm just like, what's he?
01:29:37
Speaker
What's he fucking, is he gonna pull this up? What's what's happening here? is he gonna How far has he taken this? Yeah. ah He's a great filmmaker. it's ah
01:29:49
Speaker
I don't know if this is a long shot, but he he reminds me of a Paul Thomas Anderson a little bit. he he He's not making the same kind of movies, but he's just an indie filmmaker.
01:30:06
Speaker
doing his own thing and i think like just like the way we know paul thomas anderson i feel like there's going to be you know eventually we're all just going to know sean baker like there there's going to be a shot we're all excited for the new sean baker movie if it hasn't i feel like it's going to start here i wouldn't be surprised if i looked up interviews with him if he was a big Altman fan like PTA cuz like even just the couple of Altman movies I've seen I'm like, I could see those as two different branching paths from all the like you go one, one path you go to PTA and the other goes to to Sean Baker like I kind of see the the seeds of the of that DNA and
01:30:43
Speaker
in his and his work. I mean, that just makes me more excited to check out his other stuff.
Promotions and New Podcast Announcement
01:30:49
Speaker
Hell yeah. um Yeah, I'm definitely going to be checking out Tangerine soon, but you got any plugs? ah You can follow the show's Twitter at Doug or not underscore two.
01:31:00
Speaker
Or did I say the show's Twitter? The show's Twitter is at guys got juice. And then my Twitter is at Doug or not underscore two. ah Also, I'm going to start but i'd be posting like some some TV reviews on my YouTube. ah That's the Doug or not 291. There's going to be some penguin stuff. There's been some horror shows on Peacock. I've been watching like hysteria.
01:31:25
Speaker
It's got Bruce Campbell, julie Julie Bowen from Modern Families in it. No one's talking about this show because it's on Peacock. Another horror show no one's talking about that I want to cover is a teacup that's also on Peacock. Watch it. It's very good. ah But yeah, those are my plugs.
01:31:45
Speaker
You can follow us on Instagram at these guys got juice pod. Um, keep an eye out. I have a podcast coming up with my friend Mercedes called the children of gore. Um, children of the gore. Damn it. I got it right on the last, both sound good. Children of the gore. Um, this is my fault.
01:32:02
Speaker
But ah yeah, wherere we're going to be basically covering movies that the other hasn't seen. We're yeah just going to be taking it episode by episode. Maybe we'll be able to tackle like franchises the other hasn't seen. But um we're starting with Psycho, Misery, and Green Room, and we're just going to take it from there. so keep an eye out for that it'll probably launch a week or two after you hear this um but just keep an eye out um for it and uh follow me on letterbox at nicolas ewers and i'm nick ewers i'm doug damport and we're these guys got to have a good night and and no run