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Materialists
41 Plays11 days ago
The Guys tackle the year's most controversial film - One Battle at a -wait, it's Materialists? Why?? Find out as The Guys dive in and talk everything from rom-coms, if rich people have real problems, and maybe touch on a crazy little thing we like to call "love."
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Show
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Hewers. And we're... These Guys Got Juice. And we sound materialists. She's just a girl. She's just a girl. girl you want.
00:00:20
Speaker
She's just a girl. She's just a girl. girl you want. Look at you and your mouth watering. Look at you with your mind spinning. Why don't we just admit it's all over? She's just a girl you want.
Devo Impersonation and Song Discussion
00:00:34
Speaker
It was my Devo impersonation. I need like a keyboard to be banging on my thing though, to make it complete. In my heart, you were playing a keyboard. Okay. I hope that came through in my voice.
00:00:47
Speaker
I think it did. i think everyone was able to, to pick up on it. And actually, i i i just thought of that song randomly while I was watching like certain scenes in this this movie. But then when I looked up some things about the song, i was like, oh, actually, this is a smart song to use. Because Devo said that they use like the structure of a love song, but it's really kind of like just about like desire to an unattainable degree. like like that it's like You just are so fixated on getting this person or this thing. Like it could be a stand in for anything that you're like really longing for. But it's just like you've you've hyped it to such like unattainable levels.
00:01:28
Speaker
but I'm like, oh, this that's actually it would that with that fits with with this movie. That's beautiful. Yeah, this is beautiful.
Pedro Pascal's Appeal and Roles
00:01:37
Speaker
Pedro Pascal.
00:01:39
Speaker
yeah ah he oh man Oh, man. What a snack. Women were swooning over him when I was watching it the second time in theaters.
00:01:51
Speaker
I mean, people are going to have that react. i Do you think ah general audiences are going to ever fall out of love with Pedro? Because like I feel like if we were going to be tired of of him being oversaturated and too many stuff, it would have happened already, right? Because he's like in like three movies this year or something.
00:02:11
Speaker
he was in the last of us okay yeah i wasn't even counting tv uh so he's got a last of us um man so lorian coming back this year i don't know i don't keep up with that anymore he's the mandalorian yeah materialists materialist fantastic four he was in some indie horror movie called freaky tales i haven't seen that yet oh yeah he was i almost went to see that in theaters actually i want to see it i heard it's good yeah um and then i was trying to remember does he have any other big ones coming out but that's still that's a lot of stuff in one year i mean and he's like consistently just been working like in everything almost like and um
00:02:54
Speaker
I like the way this movie uses him. I've seen like critiques of his, I guess there'll be more of a, in the spoiler section. Some people said that he was like miscast and I don't agree with that. I think it was like actually a pretty clever use of like,
00:03:10
Speaker
Because by now, he kind of has like a tie. mean, like you said, women swoon over him, men swoon over him. men Men want to be him. Men want to fuck him. Everyone wants to everyone wants to fuck this guy.
00:03:21
Speaker
So I think that's actually like pretty intentional the way Celine Song uses his character in
Casting Choices: Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans
00:03:28
Speaker
this movie. And yeah, that's all I i want to say about that pre-spoiler.
00:03:33
Speaker
um i think him and ah Chris Evans is a pretty interesting choice. Here, wait, give me one second.
00:03:54
Speaker
Hello. Hello. Sorry, guys. We had ah technical difficulties, but it looks like everything's good now. It looks good. I think we're pretty solid. So what were talking about before we got caught up? Oh, Pedro Pascal. And...
00:04:10
Speaker
And Chris Evans. Yeah, Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans. The casting of both the kind of characters that they're playing in this. i get It's not really spoiler to say it's like kind of against type for both of them. So it seems very intentional. And it feels like it is kind of reflecting their roles in movies. almost like a little meta, it feels Chris Evans was the big Marvel guy. He was the star. And since his Marvel time has kind of ended, he, you know, occasionally he'll pop up and do the knives out, but he's not really doing as much. And Pedro Pascal, he's active. He's had a great year. He's in the biggest Marvel thing. He's crushing it. He's like, yeah, working all the time.
00:04:54
Speaker
And I mean, this is a, sport Chris Evans' character is an actor. and there's like even a part where, Dakota Johnson says to him, how's the acting going? And I'm also like, it's like, she's like asking Chris Evans, how's the acting going? Yeah. And there was a weird, mother there was a weird part where he was like, yeah, last year wasn't too bad. i reprised my role as the human torch. And she was like, fuck, well, my Marvel appearance wasn't that good. I was in Madam Web. but It was very odd. I didn't expect that. But, you know, Celine's song is really revolutionizing the genre. She makes some choices. yeah that's That's what I'll say about this movie is that there's there's choices are being made.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, man. I do, yeah, but I do kind of feel like if their casting isn't intentional, because part of me was like, is well, it's A24, so I doubt it's a studio thing where they're like, we really... We're a bankable star. Yeah, it was probably the script.
00:05:52
Speaker
I i'm actually, to be honest, like really loved the script. it like The writing really worked for me, and they were probably like, this is a lot of... dialogue to chew on. These are actors who probably, like, have the, like, pick of the scripts if they want.
00:06:08
Speaker
I assume, like, they're all pretty popular. Yeah, and there's a specific editor, like, the way...
Satirical Take on Dating Apps
00:06:15
Speaker
Dakota Johnson and Pedro Pascal scenes are written and performed is a very different energy than when she's with Chris Evans. So like that's both I presume like on the page but then also like in how they perform like some scenes with how like I've seen people use this as like a strike against the movie but I assume it's like intentional people I've seen people be like no one actually like behaves or talks the way that characters do in this and I thought that that was like no ah to me it felt like there's almost like a this is not a one-to-one comparison but almost like a Yorgos Lanthimos kind of like like odd energy in the in like
00:06:54
Speaker
the that I don't know, like there's like an uncomfortableness in some of the Pedro Pascal scenes. Do you agree that like it's like kind of it feels off sometimes, but but in a way that I think is like intentional, like it's supposed to not feel quite right with him.
00:07:09
Speaker
It feels fantastical. Yeah, so it even like to the very end with him, and I won't get into it, it does feel slightly off. His energy is slightly off.
00:07:19
Speaker
He's kind of like um very cute, I guess, you know? And with the way that he speaks, it doesn't it's not typical from the kind of ah guy that you usually see playing like...
00:07:36
Speaker
like the new hot guy that's coming into the picture. Right. Well, and just even the way they both talk to each other, I think is very clever. Like I, I agree that there's like a lot of good stuff in the script because like, especially I feel like it's more in the first half, although you still get some of it late later in the movie of like how,
00:07:57
Speaker
it's almost just like business deals when they're talking when uh dakota johnson and um pedro pascal are talking like it's like very clinical and like like like like you're just talking about like an acquisition or a merger and at a business and i thought that was like a really cool and unique way to like kind of break down or like kind of zoom out like i would say this is like at least somewhat satirical of like modern dating in terms of like kind of like on it kind of trying to turn on it on its face like yeah this is kind of like a little absurd or fucked up that we can just like customize you know like if I want to say on my dating thing like priority I can just filter be like
00:08:41
Speaker
white solely black solely or like so yeah certain age groups certain like body types like like that's all in someone's profile and you can just like make it exactly how you want like quote quote like exactly how you want it but like is that real like what what does that do to the people on both sides like like ah the person who's looking for a match using that kind of like mindset but then also like that's not fair to the like your potential man like how are you how are you ever gonna like build anything real with someone like going in like with that kind of of thinking that like you can just like customize a person no i i totally agree
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah, sorry to like get
Critique of Modern Dating Culture
00:09:28
Speaker
into a whole... I mean, I feel like that that's the kind of conversations that she wants us to be having about like dating. And I don't want to act like this, like, oh, just kids these days. like I don't think our generation or mobile app dating invented like that kind of superficiality, but like it has definitely enabled and like exaggerated it to like a kind of like ridiculous degree.
00:09:54
Speaker
like you could just Before, it would just be like... I don't, how they how do people meet in the old days? It'd be like someone's friends trying to match them up with someone. Be like, so, so just you just tell your friend like, I don't know, no fatties.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. do Do you think it was as judgmental to people where it's picky or do you think it did come together as organic? I think. I mean, you were just at your local like grocery store and you're like,
00:10:22
Speaker
I mean, because, like, my great-grandpa says that he met, like, my great-grandpa, or said that he did, ah because he just saw her legs in the window of the shop that, like, her parents owned, and he was like, that's the lady I'm going to marry.
00:10:36
Speaker
And I was like, is it just that simple? You just saw a pair of legs and you picked them out? You're like, that's who I'm i'm getting? Maybe it's, because I feel like, people had to still have the superficial thoughts in their mind, but maybe they still, they weren't, and it's not that like people were more polite back then. I think it was just like,
00:10:56
Speaker
a lack of options maybe like yeah just real proximity you didn't know if you were gonna move out of your town or not like you don't yeah you have a limited exposure of limited pool but now with like apps i could start a relationship with someone on like the other side of the world you know if i wanted to and it's like having that excess of choice is almost stifling because it's like no and now you can like really, really hone in to like too specific a degree when you should make, maybe we should just kind of just be open to finding love wherever.
00:11:28
Speaker
I mean, having too many options is a real thing. It does create a level of difficult difficulty of, like, deciding. ah but That's why no one can pick a movie on Netflix. They just open it up and they're like, oh, I don't know what to watch, and then they spend two hours scrolling it. I almost compared that to movie watching. But, I mean, that does feel how...
00:11:53
Speaker
dating is approached a lot of the times nowadays. like it It feels like it is approached with this mentality of you you just hold out, you hold out, you are...
00:12:07
Speaker
you just wait for something better. You wait for something better and you... Like the actual Mr. Right or Mrs. Right, whatever, your perfect match is is out there. You just have to like wade through a bunch of shit to get to it. And like, but but with the kind of mentality...
00:12:25
Speaker
that you're like owed this perfect person. But then you go on like Instagram, you go on social media, you see that there are perfect people out there in the world. And you're just like, well, I'm just going to want that. That's all I want. Then if that's all I see online, I know it's there. How do I find that?
00:12:44
Speaker
I'm not going to find it in ah my neighborhood. It's online. So I go to the apps, I go to the dating services and ah feel like I sound like an old man. right now Back in my we used to go to the the malt shop and meet a little girl.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm not saying everyone has that shop around mentality, but it is there. you okay I've experienced it on a certain end. We have a culture that encourages it at the very least. I think a lot of people, maybe some of the... react I don't want to assume why some people don't like some aspects of this movie, but i think being...
00:13:26
Speaker
ah made to face like the like kind of ugliest aspects of
Setting Expectations for the Movie's Tone
00:13:31
Speaker
dating can probably make some people uncomfortable and then that you have to like kind of examine your own biases a ah little bit yeah but like i was wondering that when i was watching the movie for the very first time it was very late and it was a very it wasn't like couples i felt like it was mostly singles in there and like maybe looking to go see a good rom-com Because that's what this is advertised as. We should say before we, like, while we're still in the non-spoilers, like, there is there is some moments where I was, like, laughing in in in the theater.
00:14:03
Speaker
too. But overall, the tone, i would say, is not, like a like, don't go in expecting, like, I don't know, what's a typical rom-com? Like, don't, this isn't Bridesmaids, or this isn't, like, um... Terms of endearment. Oh, wait, no, that's not a rom-com.
00:14:22
Speaker
ah Of the Wedding Singer or something, you know, like that. they Actually, there's a song from, I mean, Wedding Singer didn't invent that song, but does do they share a song in common, like would that they dance to towards the end. I'm like, oh, it's a Wedding Singer reference. I don't know that it is, but that's what I thought.
00:14:39
Speaker
But so the audience that I saw it with the first time was basically quiet. I couldn't tell if they liked it or not. Again, it was late, so there wasn't a whole lot of like chitter chatter going on. People just saw it and kind of dipped out of the theater. They were all into the parking lot.
00:14:55
Speaker
I also am one of the only weirdos who stays through the credits, so I don't really get to hear a lot of the chatter going on outside with with all the kids, you know, what they're talking about. But...
00:15:05
Speaker
um It did feel relatively quiet the first time I watched it. The movie's tone is almost overtly confrontational. To it felt like, hey, fuck it.
00:15:19
Speaker
That's kind of what I liked about it. no that I felt challenged by this movie. a lot of the time. That's my favorite aspect of it. Like, I kind of, not turn on the movie, but it kind of becomes less challenging by the very end, and we can get to that in spoilers, and I kind of wanted it to, like, kind of keep that, not even cynical, but, like, kind of, like, more... i Cynical is a good word. I feel like there's cynicism in here, but it's like...
00:15:45
Speaker
it's got a weird balance of cynicism and like hope for people in there. Like, ah it it almost feels like a movie that's trying to get a message out there. That's like, people, please try to like, think a little bit differently when you're going into dating and relationships. i but I did feel challenged and at times called out, uh, in, uh,
00:16:10
Speaker
different ways of applying to different characters in this movie. Yeah, but, and we'll get, I guess, since we can go to spoilers soon, ah but I, there's a lot of parts with the Chris Evans character where I felt called out.
00:16:24
Speaker
where I was like, fuck. i I do a lot of the same things. I could see myself in Chris Evans. I could see myself in Dakota Johnson. Oh, yeah, both of them. I could see myself in Pedro Pascal. I mean, I get it. And not just the looks. Yes.
00:16:45
Speaker
That was the part that I related to. I was like, he's just like me. i mean, they're all hot and rich. Well, not in the movie. In the movie, they're all hot. yeah But it is funny that they don't really acknowledge how hot Chris Evans is. There's there's a joke that... ah ah Scott Aukerman always makes when he's talking about movies when it's like someone who's attractive playing like a struggling actor or someone who wants to be a model it's like no you look like this hot person just like it's like you look like Chris Evans just show up to the audition and be like hey I'm like Chris Evans and you should get the part all the parts you want
00:17:21
Speaker
Like, you're fucking beautiful. So, like, why is why is he having so much trouble when he looks like Chris Hebbett? If anything, like, yeah, I agree that this movie makes... I actually was kind of thinking that. I'm like, when he he says,
00:17:36
Speaker
like I won't say when he says this in the movie, so won't be a spoiler, but there's like a very small throwaway line where he's like, I'm going to get a manager. And I was just like, man, when he gets that manager, he's going to be set because he looks so good.
00:17:49
Speaker
he looks like Chris Evans. He does. He should play Captain America in a movie. He could he could be in like Marvel movies or something. oh
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I agree that this movie like mixes like a it's like a seesaw of like hope and cynicism. But then all like the fact that a guy that looks like Chris Evans is having trouble is almost just, I'm like, well, fuck, if he's there, you can't get it together. What hope do I have?
00:18:17
Speaker
I'm thinking, well, no, never mind. I'm not even going to say what I was thinking. It's not offensive, but I just don't agree with it, and I don't want to have to backpedal. Okay. is I don't want people to think I was holding myself back from saying something awful.
00:18:35
Speaker
But, uh, um, what's it called? Chris Evans, Pedro Pascal, Dakota Johnson, all beautiful, beautiful people.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah. No, they're ridiculously hot. And, and, Yeah, I guess... I guess I don't have too much more to say on non-spoiler part, because all the specific... All that the other things I want to, like, dive into are, like... i don't I don't even know that they're, like, plot spoilers, but they are, like, later in the movie, so in my mind, like, that is a spoiler.
00:19:09
Speaker
But I overall... ah If you like looking at beautiful people, you see this movie. If you like movies that are a little challenging, ah see this movie. If you like movies that are... like Because there kind of is a how it teeters between the tones.
00:19:27
Speaker
i think is is jar I think there's like definitely... a level of intentionality to how jarring it it can be so like i i i guess i'm just trying to like warn i like i like i said already like it's not like it's not the kind of rom-com it's being averaged like the trailer's like playing like material girl and then it's you know like kind of like snappy and like like that like not that there there is like like fun or clever dialogue in it, but it's not in a, like a, a fun rom-com kind of way. It's like, it's like, ah there were moments where watching us where I was like deeply sad.
00:20:03
Speaker
Like, this is like, yeah, I actually was, was crying at certain points. I've got to say, i don't really, I've heard the, like the tone, like complaint or criticism thrown out a couple of times.
00:20:18
Speaker
I didn't really feel any tone weirdness or feel any weird shifts. I sat there and kind of just felt like I was in a drama watching romance. It didn't like it was...
00:20:33
Speaker
it it didn't feel like it was really living in rom-com territory at all. No, I don't think it was until... I guess I'll wait until spoilers. It's really just a specific moment where I'm like, the tone almost feels like a different movie. But that's... Yeah, we'll talk about it in spoilers.
00:20:55
Speaker
should we Should we go spoilers? Yeah. Okay.
00:21:01
Speaker
All right.
Spoilers: Surprising Opening Scene
00:21:02
Speaker
We're back. okay so first off i you know normally i think of spoilers as something that happens later in the movie but didn't want to like reveal this movie begins with a cave person yeah like the first like wedding marriage proposal which what threw me off in like a way that i like i like like her one of my favorite things ah i feel like i see this mostly in tv because they can kind of play with your expectations of like structure and format of like okay well i know episodes of this begin this way and then when like say an episode of don't know like breaking bad when you start with a completely different character's perspective and i'm like what the fuck are we doing here like we're in mexico now what's going on or something you know yeah and and then like as the opening goes along you're like oh this is how it ties into the main story i did really enjoy that those those bookends though um
00:21:57
Speaker
Do you have a specific like takeaway or read on them? Other than trying to just like like mirror like that, yes, we have changed the way that we approach like like dating and finding a mate and in certain ways, but also some aspects never change. That was kind of my read on that, is that we are kind of basically still just doing that same thing.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah, for for me, my takeaway was kind of that, like, this, like, desire to be with somebody like...
00:22:36
Speaker
like
00:22:39
Speaker
being materialistic i guess you know it's so like just outside of like a societal or maybe hey if there's actual cave people listening uh and they're like no actually our society was super superficial like you know like you actually got it wrong but like to me it's like oh this is like a simpler time where you don't have like the pressures of society that are telling us we need this and this and that in our life. And you can kind of, it really is just, I'm, feel I have this strong feeling towards this person. I want to like, just like be with them.
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, like, so and the movie begins with like the the cave people, he's got flowers and he's presenting her with flowers. Right. And and even at the very end, ah it's Dakota Johnson kind of wondering, and like the cave person is pregnant. It's wondering What is the thing that drives us? Like, I don't really know. And, you know, the camera pans down to the flowers again. And part of me, my takeaway was, okay, so, I mean, i feel like it's almost a letting the audience off the hook a little bit.
00:23:48
Speaker
ah Kind of saying, like... Yeah, there is something deep down. Maybe it's not in all of us, but there's something deep down at the core. It's primal. It is in the same place where like our fears exist, like just very deep down from a long time ago.
00:24:05
Speaker
ah Just being gifted something that looks nice is like... It appeals to you. There's something... It's like a very primal reaction that's just been in you for generations and generations. Just like I had heard like, oh, if you're afraid of heights, like you're a relative from long ago probably like fell from a tree and it's just like that primal. It's like an evolutionary instinct to survive. Like, oh, no, I needed to stay away from this shit.
00:24:31
Speaker
And I think it's kind of like in a way just saying like where does this come from? i don't know. Maybe it's this primal need and desire that we all have, just like our sexual drives and these things we all discover about ourselves.
00:24:46
Speaker
And maybe it's okay, you know, to to feel that way. Maybe this is where it comes Because think the movie ultimately is is not saying that her like worldview is completely wrong in terms of like that...
00:25:00
Speaker
you know, that there the the materialism, like very, um you know, objectifying nature of of dating is like, that's that's driving a lot of people in like the mates they search, like when she says says like, it's just math.
00:25:15
Speaker
Like, i don't, yeah, I don't think the movie is is is fully negating that by by the end. I think it's kind of just saying like, well, even despite that and and like these harsh realities that may be always been, know,
00:25:29
Speaker
present to some degree you can still choose based on love like that it's like not you yeah it's it's not your destiny that you have to like follow this like almost biological programming to like have this and this and that in i in a mate you can just follow your heart Yeah, love this thing that like we don't really understand that just kind of comes into our lives in unexpected ways. We can't always plan it. We can't search for it through these like matchmakers all the time.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, I i yeah i kind of dig that takeaway. Yeah, yeah. I like that takeaway. It's is just, I guess, mainly for me, I wish the way we got there felt... of like it It almost... Maybe I just wanted the movie to be longer. like it if It felt like the rush that we got to that conclusion from... like So they're at... you know They kind of just crashed this other wedding, and in there which I...
Relationship Dynamics and Wedding Scene
00:26:31
Speaker
I almost want like just a whole movie of that of like them in in that stage where they're kind of in this like ambiguous like are they getting back together energy and they're just experiencing other people's relationship. i'm like that's actually like a cool idea ah yeah showing up to other weddings like when they're not even sure like what they're doing.
00:26:51
Speaker
Uh, but like when we go from the fight they have there to the very end, I, I, I kind of, I guess I just wanted more to bridge that, that gap in, in that, that I wanted the ending to like, like we could still come to that conclusion, but I almost wanted it to, to happen in like,
00:27:09
Speaker
a more challenging way way than it it it it feels like like the final scene especially like in the park when he puts like the flower ring on her it was like oh this scene feels like like ah from another rom like a regular rom-com i feel so that's specifically i feel like that's chris evans as a character making fun of the idea of like getting married spontaneously Yeah, he's kind of doing tongue-in-cheek. I don't believe that they actually were committing to getting married in that moment.
00:27:41
Speaker
Oh, okay. I think the movie kind of wants us to believe that that's the engagement. Oh, no. i Both times watching it, I like didn't ah have that takeaway at all, even with the credits and the whole like marriage courthouse thing going.
00:27:58
Speaker
I was because as characters, i don't think Dakota Johnson would make that big of a change where she would. Well, that that's why it felt odd because it doesn't feel it felt like Chris Evans was kind of making a joke.
00:28:10
Speaker
um it Yeah. Being tongue in cheek about it It didn't feel I feel like we don't we can still have the idea that like choosing love can overcome like the cold.
00:28:21
Speaker
cynical nature of of dating without even having that scene. Like, i feel it would be, like, ah almost a better bookend of, like, the mirror image of, like, the cave person gathering flowers, and then you see him with flowers at, you know, like, he's stopping to get some food.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah, i kind there I kind of wish it was him stopping to get food, and then it was, yeah, the cave with flowers. I agree, it goes on a little too long. that When she's on the phone, I was like... It's almost like an ep... That was, I'm like, why are we...
00:28:50
Speaker
not Because like you bring up the the promotion thing, but then but then don't resolve it. like you kind of like She's leaving. and she's She's like, I'll think about it. and but where she's It seems kind of like that she's not going back. but like Yeah.
00:29:03
Speaker
was like, we do we need that information, really? And in regard to like the argument not fully like getting resolved, the argument gets interrupted by a crisis. I did kind of appreciate that because...
00:29:19
Speaker
I feel like a lot of the times, if you are in a serious argument in your relationship... They don't resolve cleanly. There will be some outside force that kind of interrupts the argument where it's like, fuck, we kind of got to just drop it. And then when you approach the situation the next time, it is kind of approached with more clarity.
00:29:38
Speaker
I don't think Chris Evans as a character would have all of that prepared in that moment. that thought out and that coherently in a way that... Is that poetic and makes sense? Maybe he would, but um I did... I don't really question much with the Chris Evans character, even though he doesn't get... I'd say a lot of the characters are...
00:29:59
Speaker
Underdeveloped is not the right word. I would say it's like almost purposefully minimalist in terms of like we only get like one major flashback with with the relationship. And I almost thought they were setting that up that we were going to see like multiple flashbacks throughout like showing like the previous chapter in the relationship. It was an effective flashback. Oh, yeah. It was it was it was effective. i kind of i kind of wanted more because more because like it I guess i because I guess the question I have isn't that like because like you said, real fights do get interrupted all the time. And then, like you said, like this, sometimes this crisis can present clarity on the issue, but it's never fully.
00:30:42
Speaker
Other than just like the heart wants what it wants, you can't really help what what you who you fall for. But like, what does Chris Evans see in Dakota Johnson? Like why, what specifically can't he get over about her?
00:30:55
Speaker
Because like we don't, I don't know that we see enough of the relationship. I know we know why she left the relationship. and like what the issue was with from her side before but like for him what did what is this that i mean i i i understood him from the perspective like yeah i'm i'm a natural born uriner i've been in that scenario where it's you know the girl of your dreams or this person that you had a deep thing with is you know it didn't work out but you're not gonna really ever get over the like it's like and you you'll totally like be there for the back on their beck and call like even though it's like oh fuck am i kind of being a cock about this it feels like puppy love and he does feel kind of like a yearner and maybe that is kind of the magic to his character that he is
00:31:48
Speaker
That all it is is yearning and just that this desire for more, this desire to be an actor, this desire to be with a beautiful girl, but he is the underdog. I did find his character to be the most underwritten in the movie. he kind of shows up just when we need to have...
00:32:07
Speaker
the tension of like how does he feel about her relationship now until the end like the end is when he gets the most on uninterrupted screen b yeah pedro pascal fully gets out of the movie and it's like 15 20 minutes yeah totally it's like no page pedro pascal's the guy the movie's kind of, I'd say, a little bit worse when Pedro Pascal's out and Chris Evans is in there.
00:32:32
Speaker
But it's not like that big of a criticism coming from me. It didn't ruin it for me. But it's something I noticed a second time around where I was like, I'm not feeling it as much when Pedro Pascal's out of the picture. Yeah. If Chris Evans' performance is good enough that the underwritten nature of his character doesn't isn it doesn't really hurt it that much for me, like I think I still like kind of buy him as as a real guy just because i think that performance is is really good.
00:33:04
Speaker
It just, he doesn't look like a normal guy, though. That's the only... No. because if This guy could be, yeah, one of our friends, maybe. you know, one our friends, someone we know in Chicago who's, like, trying to make it in something. You have to suspend your disbelief that a guy that looks like Chris Evans is living with, like, three roommates and and like, struggling and... It's a big suspension, too. It's like, dude, cut your hair, become a model.
00:33:30
Speaker
You're an actor. You're that's like a couple degrees away from model. How do you not have an agent who just is like getting who's got you modeling, man? Like five years in and he's just getting a manager. Like, come on, man. Like, get it to it's ah it's almost like, are you intentionally fucking this up?
00:33:48
Speaker
How did someone not see his headshot and go like, we got to get more pictures of this guy. who the fuck is this? Oh, Hachimachi.
00:33:57
Speaker
Even when he's in that like waiter outfit, it's like, oh, he must be like, this must be like the waiter calendar that he's modeling for.
00:34:07
Speaker
They're shooting on location. He's not like actually working this event. He's not just doing like a regular catering job. um I did, you know, and it's easy to make fun of it, but I did really, yeah i don't...
00:34:22
Speaker
Those are negatives or complaints, but I'm not too down on it, though. I really found the sentiment coming from Chris Evans' character at the end to be, like, pretty sweet and a kind of... It's not a bad pitch for life. Like, hey, what about, you know, go with consistent love. Like, that is a path. Like, is there. Right, like, financial security, questionable, but I...
00:34:51
Speaker
will always love you although brian wilson would say may not always love you but as long as stars are above that's the song i should have done oh fuck i should have fucking done some beach boys at the beginning i feel like she should make it clear too that she wants to be in a position where she just doesn't want to work anymore or like because she feels like she might make enough money to be able to like live pretty decently with Chris Evans.
00:35:22
Speaker
But I feel like her goal, her like rejection of Chris Evans would be a bit more understandable if she was like, I would like to not have to work for the rest of my life ever again. If she was, if she mentions that kind of, she says she wants a rich guy, but she doesn't seem like she has a problem working for a living. Because the only really illumination we get on like why she has that perspective is she says, my parents, you know, were poor and like that was I would see them fight about money all the time and I don't want to be that.
00:35:56
Speaker
So like that's why she wants that financial stability. But does is she the kind of person who wants to also have the self-fulfillment of earning their own living? like the is it is it Is it just she wants the partner to be capable of that, or she also just wants to be like fully taken care of like with with that? That's kind of not clear, right? She seems financially stable on her own,
Financial Motivations in Relationships
00:36:22
Speaker
honestly. Like, for me looking in, they don't...
00:36:24
Speaker
She doesn't seem like she's struggling, but it wouldn't surprise me if she was just like, yeah, I'd rather not work. ah you know Because she it's already in her character that she wants someone who's filthy rich. Just have her say out loud, I'd rather not work again. And being with Chris Evans means I have to like continue working.
00:36:43
Speaker
That would make the like it more meaningful when she... rejects Pedro Pascal that like oh she really is what is willing to follow her heart because like that like this is like she could just have it all in terms of like not working and like being take you like he's he's the full package he's a unicorn he's the full package because it doesn't seem like you know, leaving Pedro Pascal being with Chris Evans doesn't exactly equal.
00:37:09
Speaker
I'm going to struggle unless she's like, I'm going to be with Chris Evans and maybe yeah I don't want to work. That's not my thing. So maybe in her future, she gives up working. I don't know. Like, Or you make the like on that line of thinking, if you do want to have that final phone call where she's being offered the promotion, you have it be. No, she will go back to work because she kind of has to because like, you know, he's not at that point yet ah fight financially. So she needs to continue working and she can make more money.
00:37:40
Speaker
But she's still choosing her partner based on love. Like, yeah, it it would it would kind of be like, well, it doesn't have to be a binary like you just reject that part of him because he doesn't come with the the financial security you crave. Like, maybe that'll come later. Maybe. Yeah, you might still need to work for a little bit like I i feel and that would be a pretty real resolution. Yeah, and I do like... The movie kind of feels a bit like a fairy tale to me in a little bit. And that final scene specifically, too. Yeah. feels like the most fairy tale-ish. But all around, I mean, Pedro Pascal, he walks in and it feels like a fairy tale. Like, there was not a dry seat in the house, mine included, when he walked in
00:38:24
Speaker
And it felt like he was like the white knight kind of coming into the picture a little bit. And So... i so For that ah effect and that feel, I can appreciate it not getting too into the finances of it all, but it would sell it a bit more if they kind of got into the analytics of the money because they get into the analytics of relationships. If this movie went full analytical, don't know. That's the stuff I like. is like Yeah. when
00:38:55
Speaker
To make a whole hour longer and just even chatting it up. One of my friends described it as like people talking in like ASMR voice about, like relationship economics. like that's like that That's the stuff in this movie that I was like, oh, this is this movie's really cooking.
00:39:10
Speaker
And I did like that. I like the way Celine Song thinks and the way she writes. It did feel very... Like, like almost a lesson that I was watching on relationships and modern dating and different tropes that you you see happening. Because there are times where i'm like, I feel like I could see myself or like I've had this conversation sometimes in my own head, not even with someone else present about like finances and my own future and what's going on.
00:39:45
Speaker
Oh, like yeah, I don't even need someone else present to be worried about these things. Oh, absolutely. i mean, I'll psych myself out all the time. Like, well, I can't date right now. I don't even have like stable income, even though like, so I can't, I don't deserve love because I don't have money or something earlier like, yeah, but that is like, we're kind of encouraged to think that way.
00:40:05
Speaker
And to be honest too, I mean, I'm not going to lie. It does look really nice to be Pedro Pascal. I didn't think that, you know, the surgery, I was like, thank God I don't have to do that. I'm over six feet tall. That sucks for him. Gave me perspective, I guess. I'm like, oh, I did. I did get the genetic lottery a little bit with with the height.
00:40:28
Speaker
It is pretty nice being tall. It's something I value. I would go to be taller, too, if I could. I wouldn't get the procedure, but if I could somehow be a little taller. Like you're just sliding scale, like your character creator in an RPG? Yeah, just a couple inches, you know, two or three inches taller, don't think What's an Exactly. Yeah. See, ah kind of agree, but it wouldn't, but that's what the thing I did find myself kind of agreeing with Dakota Johnson. I'm like, I, the life, it does look good from the outside. And like right now i'm working, working,
00:40:58
Speaker
ah a second job i was talking about it with my girlfriend i was like you know how do i get in a position where i'm living a bit more comfortably and she was kind of saying it it comes from hustle you don't really just get there it having multiple things going on at once multiple sources of income although he kind of did just get there right business so he kind of and he even says himself it's boring like he doesn't want to really talk about like That's why it feels like a fantasy, kind of. Yeah.
00:41:29
Speaker
the Like, he is rich, but he has ah level of self-awareness that he does have that privilege. Like, he's he's not he's not like a snobby rich person. Like, he's...
00:41:42
Speaker
Because I think the characterization of him is interesting. I've seen people say, i i think I said but in the non-spoiler part that said he was was miscast. I think it's interesting to have him playing this kind of character because the on paper, he is the perfect Prince Charming. like He looks like Pedro Pascal.
00:41:59
Speaker
He's yeah rich. He can provide like a ah life and relationship that seems to be conflict-free. No problems whatsoever. Here's how, like, an example of how, like, some women think about Pedro Pascal. I mean, they were swooning.
00:42:13
Speaker
There was noise every time he was on screen from a whole row of women. And then, like, when he is out of the movie and Dakota Johnson is like, I'm not going to Iceland with you or whatever. Someone was like, what? Yeah.
00:42:31
Speaker
they I could hear them, and then there was chatter happening among their group after that decision, and they were, like, rebelling. And then at the very Like, no, girl, no. Pick the materialistic option. At the very end, when she is... When Chris Evans is delivering her spiel, someone says she should have stayed with Pedro.
00:42:52
Speaker
Like, and this is what people are thinking about Pedro, man. So it's almost like... that That him as a person just kind of overrides your ability to like even contextualize what what's going on with him in the movie. Yeah.
00:43:08
Speaker
Because his hotness overrides that. I have to say too, not to like ah go on a sidebar, but the kiss that they have at the very end is so hot.
00:43:19
Speaker
It's so real. Chris Evans, Dakota Johnson. Yes. I feel like I'm kissing them too. and feel like there's a three-way kiss involving me happening when that's happened. And it's like in for me, I think specifically it's important that that kiss feels hot.
00:43:35
Speaker
There's something that despite how attractive they both are, when Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal kiss and are getting intimate, I mean, we don't see like a full set. I kind of like how that scene is shot when they come into his like penthouse and then we start zooming in on like her phone in the hallway. Like, I love that. I almost wish it was like a slower, pace even though we know it's going to be Chris Evans. Like on the other side, I wanted them like really milk that and like be like,
00:43:57
Speaker
Oh, who's on the phone? Don't get me. So the phone work, the phone call work in this movie is so well done. The camera work too. I don't know if she knows where to put the camera. I don't know if every director does this, but i feel it feels like she gets a wide of every single a scene that she's in and just knows when to appropriately cut to a fucking like wide establishing shot.
00:44:19
Speaker
Like she does it oftentimes at the end, she's ending the scene on a wide when you weren't wide at all. And it, Feels so... I love it.
00:44:30
Speaker
I noticed it this time around, and I want to watch re-watch Past Lives to see if she does that too, if that's like a signature she's got going on. I don't know if other filmmakers do that a lot, but it...
00:44:43
Speaker
I really, really enjoyed that. I was like, man, if I become a filmmaker, am I going to steal this? you I don't think it'd be be. I'm sure she like, you know, made her own version of movies. She she like she recently did an interview where she like was listing like movies that were an inspiration for this. And i I want to go back and look at that list and like watch some of those movies because there was like some.
00:45:05
Speaker
some Taiwanese romance movie that I remember hearing good things about called like Yi Yi and she like listed that movie I was like I i should watch Yi um but uh what was I about to say oh okay so about Pedro Pascal I i The Chris Evans kiss at the end is hot, but I feel like that there's like a
Fantastical Elements and Tone Comparison
00:45:26
Speaker
cold... Like when I made that Yorgos Lantimos comparison, it's specifically in the Pedro Pascal scenes because everything feels, to me, felt intentionally kind of off with him. Like that we're supposed to get the sense of like, yeah, on paper he's perfect and Hazel, she even is saying like, yeah, you're perfect, but like it doesn't feel right. And like... in and
00:45:47
Speaker
if if If you're not distracted by how fucking achingly beautiful he is as a person, you, like, maybe attune like, that that that energy of, like... that In reality, the hot rich guy would probably be kind of boring to date, you know? ah Yeah, I mean, I don't know that many hot rich people or rich people... don't, I just... I...
00:46:12
Speaker
I feel like I've heard that, though, that rich people in general are pretty boring people because they just aren't focused. They don't like, real-life experiences to, like, connect They've just been focused on ways, like, to earn money a lot of the... earn it. Like, people who are genuinely very rich, like, have just been focused on, like, business and have been very money-minded. So I heard they don't...
00:46:31
Speaker
normally have much going on in the interesting department. and just like normal life struggles and experiences, I feel like you just get to skip over a lot of that if you have enough money. I'm like, look at our president.
00:46:44
Speaker
Whoa! Not to get political. pew pew shots fired and the materialist episode you thought we were gonna play it safe but the material is like oh what a nice non-political movie nah psych got your ass we are a political podcast first and foremost i think it says that in our description yeah it's like bold type two we are political yeah politics first everything everything else second that's really the main thing we want you to take away is politics yeah uh we pulled a real twist on them
00:47:25
Speaker
a real m night speaking of twists there's so many twists in this movie i brought it back around because you were talking about it earlier i just off mic i went in expecting because that was like really all i knew other than the trailer some people were like there's a fucking crazy twist in this movie midway through and i'm like What could that possibly be? And I kept waiting for it. It was the zipper on Pedro Pascal's back. And he pulls it down. He's got like the orange coming out. He's like the orange coming Yeah, yeah. He's like an alien. and He's like afraid of.
00:47:56
Speaker
With horns coming. Yeah. And then they spray some water on him. He's like, I'm melting.
00:48:03
Speaker
and then he sings gravity and flies away define gravity and gravity yeah
00:48:11
Speaker
it was crazy that they went in that direction i was like i didn't even know this was a musical yeah they made it wicked the omen and signs all in one no one's ever done that in a in a romance movie before that i can think of That's why people, now I understand the tone. Yeah, people like, that came out of nowhere. I'm like, okay, fair. i know but ah Now that we're holding it under a microscope, but i can i could see it. Yeah, I see it now.
00:48:42
Speaker
No, okay, but for for real, the only thing I could think of that are twists, which I don't agree are twists, is one, the reveal about Pedro Pascal had the surgery. which is That's just backstory that we learn about him. that can It contextualizes...
00:48:58
Speaker
why he's like, I guess drawn to her or like why he's prioritizing the things he does in dating because he used to not have that physical advantage that he now has. But I feel like it makes him endearing though. If she has that same reaction to like, Oh, like, cause it wasn't perfect. He's like, am I still a unicorn? And she's like, and then it cuts to the wide and she's like sitting there slightly lower and six inches lower.
00:49:26
Speaker
And she's like, you're perfect. and I felt that was very sincere. Like, I believed it. It makes him more human because, like, yeah otherwise you're like, what's this guy's deal? Like, he does he's rich, he's nice. Like, is he like a sear is he American Psycho-ing, like, on the side? Like, whenever he leaves the house, he just fucking is going to stab people. Yeah.
00:49:46
Speaker
Is he Tom Cruise secretly?
00:49:50
Speaker
Just jumping on couches everywhere. What if that was the reveal? he was a Scientologist. Yeah.
00:50:00
Speaker
them and That one got you. I wasn't ready for that. I don't know why. The must be in the auditorium.
00:50:11
Speaker
And then the only other thing I could think is a twist is also not a twist is when she learns... that one of her clients was sexually assaulted. I thought that was like a really compelling turn because I was like, oh, the movie is already kind of cold and cynical and and and like straightforward about it. This is what dating is like.
00:50:30
Speaker
So when that happened, I i i told you before recorded, I audibly went, whoa, like out loud and in the almost empty theater that I saw it in. But like... I it still made. so I wasn't like, oh, that's fucking nuts that this movie is going here. I was like, well, we've already started in this kind of like very blunt like place about how we're examining dating. So like that's the elephant in the room. If you're not, it would almost be fucked up to not address that that happened. So you know what I mean?
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's in the conversation. it's a real aspect of dating like that, yeah that, that happens, you know? So like, and the, the way comes at you too, does kind of catch you off guard because she's talking with her friend before that scene about dating Pedro Pascal. And she's like, you couldn't let her date one of our clients before.
00:51:22
Speaker
And then she gets called into the office and I was like, is she really going to get a hard time about getting in trouble for dating? of like Yeah. I was like, that's so cliche. they That would have been like ah the cornier movie version of like, they're like, you can't, this is not allowed. And then they kind of have to sneak around or something. And yeah, really caught me off guard when it turned out be a sexual assault thing.
00:51:43
Speaker
You don't hear she calls the the woman first, like like how she does her follow up with the also real matchmakers. Let us know ah how does how does this work in reality? Like, I'm not assuming this movie is a documentary or anything, but the idea of like having one person assigned to like these relationships that personally calls you after the date seems a little absurd, but maybe that's how it works. I don't know. How does it work? Like, look I'm curious.
00:52:12
Speaker
I would be interested to know too. But when she calls that guy, Mark P, I think is his name. Yeah. is she Oh yeah. I guess I would see her again. Like he was, he say like, we just stayed up talking all night or something. Like ah he says something along those lines. Like he did from his, from what he's saying, he's making it sound like it was an all right date. Yeah, and then she asks if he would like a second date, and he was like, yeah, I guess if she's interested or whatever. He's kind of like... Kind acts like he doesn't care, or he's like apprehensive about... Yeah, but now you know... like Later, you're like, oh, he's that way, because he's like, oh, she's going to want another date after I assaulted her, right? He has to have that awareness that what he did was fucked, right? Yeah. Well, not all people do, though. like Some people don't even...
00:53:02
Speaker
I feel like... I feel like he kind of knows. think he knew. I'm just talking in general, like, that there... Before, like, i don't want to say Me Too, like, changed everything, but, like, it made conversations that people weren't having before happen. Like, I feel like... Yeah.
00:53:18
Speaker
That, like, that it made people kind of reflect on, like, wait, our what kind of behaviors do we, like, kind of just allow, like... ah That's just how men are on dates. They're like, no, wait, that's kind of rapey. Yeah. I was watching the show, think it was called The Adults on FX or Hulu. Oh, yeah. That was a subplot of like one of the first episodes, I think.
00:53:42
Speaker
Oh, like date rape? It this guy kind of confronting if he's sexually assaulted anyone, and it kind of turns out that he did. Oh, damn. They play it for comedy. I didn't really know what the takeaway was supposed to be for that.
00:53:56
Speaker
But... um Dakota Johnson, after that phone call, I do really like, do you remember the reaction that she has afterwards when she gets done talking to Mark? It's, like, very, like, kind of human. I really liked it, but she's just, like, I forgot what she said. She's kind of just, like, repeating what what he said just said or something. on like Yeah. and I'll do another day. She's, like, kind of congratulating herself of like, fuck Yeah, and I like both times I saw that really enjoyed that reaction.
00:54:26
Speaker
And that actually got like, um, and um like mild applause from the people who were pretty reactive. The second time I was around, I was like, I guess they enjoyed that reaction as much as I kind of did. It's one. of the more human things we see because until the like chris evans centric part of the movie she is very almost alien and like how she like approaches thing and like closed off intentionally like i think that's like we know like oh she's like kind of I know, she steeled or shielded herself in order to like, you know, but have this kind of like ruthless efficiency in her in her like thinking and and and and her job. So like this, this was almost like a bursting of the bubble.
00:55:10
Speaker
I guess my note would be like, You could still have this rock her worldview and have her questioning everything without her being like to her boss, has this happened before? Because she's worked there for five years. Yeah, it doesn't play well. It would almost feel more realistic if she was trying to pretend like she didn't know that this happened. Like that she's kind of like lied to herself and maybe she even remembers like, fuck did this oh another client this did fucking happen to before or something and then it's like her having to confront of like yeah you can't just compartmentalize that that's like part of this thing you're doing yeah but instead it was just she had no idea that this was even a thing but I do like the line where she was like her boss was like yeah this is dating
00:55:55
Speaker
Right. Yeah. No. And again, that's the felt like the movie talking directly at the audience of like, just being very blunt. of Like, this is a reality of, of what happens. And I've, I,
00:56:08
Speaker
you know some people may differ on like how the movie handles it i i applaud i'm a guy who's like into big swings and i like that rug pull like i don't think that was a twist but i like that it it pivots the movie to a different energy that we i didn't think we were going to like go there you know beforehand but then when we did it felt like yeah of course like yeah we why wouldn't we address this Yeah, and another thing that kind of rubbed me the wrong way a little bit, too, is when she finally goes to, like, when she, like, fully, like, stalks Sarah or whatever.
00:56:46
Speaker
ah Was that her name, the client's name? I'm trying to remember everyone's name. The Code Johnson's name is Lucy, right? Yeah. um I think it might have been Sarah.
00:56:58
Speaker
yeah Were we supposed to think that's funny when it cuts to out? She's or Sophie. Sophie. When she's outside of Sophie's place in like a trench coat. And like I was like, this woman just got like almost sexually assaulted. Are you trying to scare like fuck out of her? You look like a a sex pest. You look like you're about to do something fucked up. but So the confrontation, i didn't mind. i This is where the writing felt but a little bit like the weakest to me. I didn't necessarily love the pimp line. it felt a little silly, even though the sentiment did kind of ring to me. She would be upset with Dakota Johnson the way she is, but for her to specifically call her a pimp didn't feel...
00:57:38
Speaker
too real. It doesn't feel like the word choice somebody would come to really. It's like the word choice someone would come to if they wanted to trigger the specific arc that Dakota Johnson has. That's happening all for her benefit which I guess is the main criticism you could have of that plot line of like it exists as character development for someone else i think the performance is really good by some it is so they almost like too good there's like point ah two points where she's like crying and the second point where i'm like oh my god like this lady's like it's acting too much yeah to he's like the done the most acting in this movie and like with with only like a couple scenes like and she has the yeah that she's she's like really
00:58:23
Speaker
bringing it almost in a way that it's like tom cruise at the end of magnolia level crying yeah she's she's like shaking i do like that moment when she's like can i hug you and she's like yeah obviously like yes then they do but but yeah for her to say that specifically call her to pib felt kind of false and then What felt a little bit more false to me in that moment, though, was Dakota Johnson repeating the, he checked a lot of our boxes.
00:58:55
Speaker
i i kind of didn't believe that's what that character would say in that moment. believe he say that to herself. Unless it's like, what, are you worried legal repercussions? That's very weird that you're saying it to It feels disrespectful to be saying it to this woman in this moment. absolutely is. yeah I think...
00:59:13
Speaker
i My interpretation of that is like she's repeating that to herself to kind of like absolve the responsibility. They should have punched her after she said that. That would have been good. Like she gets slapped or hit. Yeah, that was like out of line. Yeah, kind of to just drop that. Like check all the boxes. Like, what the fuck are you saying?
00:59:33
Speaker
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. She maybe should have gotten called out on that. and little but But like I just said something else. Yeah, like I understand her trying to like kind of rationalize that away because her boss is already telling her to like...
00:59:46
Speaker
but not even talk to her in that, you know, she needs to move on from this. So like her repeating that, like checking the boxes of her is like her trying to absolve herself.
00:59:57
Speaker
Yeah. I kind of do wish overall that she got called out a little more on certain things. Like Chris Evans does say at the end, like, you like, why are you using me? Like when they have that fight at at the end, which I,
01:00:12
Speaker
uh you know felt pretty real in some aspects uh like i almost feel like i've been on both sides of of that uh of of scenarios like that where it's like i do know this person likes me and i don't feel the same way but i'm gonna kind of enable that because like oh it's one i feels nice to be wanted that way and then like they are there for you and stuff but and then also i'm often been on the flip side where i'm the one pining and then also will immediately pick up the phone drop what i'm doing for this person who i know would not probably do the same for me i feel like it's very easy to fall into either side of those things i fall more into the being used one yes same but i like my history the other way too not intentionally i feel like everybody is probably guilty of that in some form
01:01:07
Speaker
yeah yeah and like you said it's probably easy to fall into in it and not in an intentional way because like she brings up i mean this in other contexts would be a corny line i guess it is a corny line but i i liked
Complexities of Love and Dating
01:01:22
Speaker
of where she was like saying that like love is easy like that's the easiest part like it's dating that that's hard and like i that you don't choose who you fall for. Like, that's, like, just happened ah very unfairly because often I'll fall for a girl who's, like, not available at all. Like, she's clearly not interested or she's with someone else. I'm like, well, this sucks.
01:01:46
Speaker
Now I'm just stuck with these feelings. Now, did you buy, um pedro pascal's struggle Pedro Pascal's struggle in the end where he was like, ah because Dakota Johnson's like, you don't love me.
01:02:03
Speaker
And, you know, as someone who's been told that in, like, previous relationships where I've been told, like, you don't actually love me, I feel like he should have maybe, like, fought against that. He really kind of very quickly... kind of yielded immediately. Yeah, he was like, you're right.
01:02:19
Speaker
I don't love you. And he was like, I'm worried about maybe never loving anybody. I'm afraid. i feel He's like, I feel dumb to admit it, but I don't know if I'll ever understand love or feel it. And i was just like, Pedro Pascal's not like a young guy. It's like, so you're telling me this guy doesn't really know what love feels like?
01:02:38
Speaker
Is he that like... that closed off like maybe they should have leaned more into him not being that normal of a person I feel like seems kind of normal and like I mean because has he just never dated anyone before Dakota Johnson because of this height thing no I think he has dated I think ah my read of that is that like I think a lot of rich people probably do struggle to have genuine relationships of either romantic or friendship kind because like you can never know of like how sincere the the it is because it's like oh are you you're just here for my money or are you actually like like me as a person and so like if if you're always under that suspicion intention like
01:03:26
Speaker
how can you even open yourself up to the idea of, of love? And so I, and I could buy that his character has never had that, or maybe, maybe he, it was in his life and he just didn't possess the ability to recognize it just because he's had such an,
01:03:44
Speaker
you know, like weird light, but but I agree that doesn't fit with the rest of his characterization because he seems kind of normal and well adjusted for a rich guy that, that we could have made him, you could have had him be more like, like just have Dakota Johnson bring up like some kind of normal thing that everyone has to experience and him be like, what, what's that? Or, you know, like just like stuff that everyone should know about, like regardless. And that he's like, just like,
01:04:11
Speaker
so detached that he's like what are you talking about yeah no one breathing and we all love breathing don't we he's like huh air we what's that yeah seem a little bit more closed off to what's going on yeah but um i am curious to what you think about the this sentiment that's shared ah twice in the movie and i like how it's shared differently um the first time it's dakota johnson kind of talking a bride that uh uh she helped get set up with a husband basically like one of her clients is getting married and she's talking her down from a ledge because she's like i don't want to get married like ah my family doesn't need a cow it's not like you know she kind of
01:04:57
Speaker
goes into a bunch of like old reasons why people used to get married right and uh when she what were you gonna no i was just gonna say i like that it kind of boils down to like dakota johnson basically just drilling her on like well she she admits that like i'm i like him because she he makes my sister jealous like and and she's like well does that give him value like that it's like i i like i like that because it's like she repeats it she tells pedro pascal that he makes her feel valuable when they're out to dinner that one night and when dakota johnson says it to her i got kind of like a she's
01:05:38
Speaker
doing her job kind of thing. She maybe doesn't necessarily believe the pitch that she's giving this bride, but then I believed it when Dakota Johnson said it to Pedro Pascal. Yeah, I think she's being sincere there with with him that that she feels ah valued. And a lot of people, that's a very...
01:05:57
Speaker
human thing to want to like i i think going back to the caveman of it all maybe that's that where that need comes from even if it is you know some people may want more than others for that to be expressed in a materialistic way of like i want a nice looking thing to be able to feel valued but everyone wants to feel valued yeah that that that's a that's a universal uh thing but yeah i i do i i like both instances of that and like the the moment of her kind of giving the pep talk to, to the bride.
01:06:31
Speaker
Yeah. Um, you got anything else in materialists that you want to talk about? We talked on a lot actually. Yeah. Um, Chris Evans, uh,
01:06:45
Speaker
You know, he couldn't cut it as the Human Torch, and now we have ah Fantastic Four, Pedro Pascal. Not like, you know, it's not like he's another Human Torch, but he's the leader of the Fantastic Four.
01:07:02
Speaker
So you kind of got to go with him over the Human Torch, right? The old Human Torch. I mean, also, like, how does that work? You're bringing down by Marvel logic. Are you going to get burned up during sex?
01:07:15
Speaker
And how is it going to be when Madibweb interacts with all three of these characters in Avengers Doomsday? it does. They said it.
01:07:26
Speaker
That does connect them all. She should be in Doomsday. Bring the Sony people in. Yeah. Morbius is going to fight Dr. Doom. Kraven the Hunter. Oh, Kraven better to be there. I think loved that movie. yeah yeah I haven't listened to our episode in a while. It was the best movie of 2024. Yeah. I think it was. i think we determined that.
01:07:48
Speaker
No. Yeah. I mean, there's challenging things in this movie and there's things that I'm still kind of trying to figure out how I feel about it. Like, i I wouldn't even, I don't even have like a numerical rating for it.
01:08:05
Speaker
And I almost feel like that'd be, and that would be in in Dakota Johnson's old mindset that i'm trying to assign a numerical value to like an intangible emotional thing. You know, it's like, can can can we even quantify how you how you feel about a movie? It's weird. a lot of people i saw in Letterboxd, they just gave it a heart instead of like a star rating. And I feel like that that's not an uncommon thing i mean other people i follow either gave it like two stars or five stars and just not log it if i can't think of like what to write for a review or what my rating is but i think i will start to i think i will just start doing heart instead so it's still logged even if i don't know just like or dislike basically heart it's like no heart pass fail kind of has fail yeah Because like that, that's how, uh, I mean, I haven't watched that many clips of old Ebert and Roper, but pretty sure they just did like thumbs up, thumbs down, you know, like that at the end of the day, that's, I mean, of course do like reading more in depth reviews or specific, you know, specificity in it, but ultimately I just need to know, did you like it or not? Mm-hmm.
01:09:14
Speaker
I gave it four and a half stars on Letterboxd. Follow me at Nicholas Severs. um And, you know, even though I did have a lot of, like, ah criticisms I threw towards different parts of the movie, it's one that really,
01:09:31
Speaker
like I just, gotta say, I really, really loved it. I was happy to see it a second time. I'm happy to rewatch it again. It's something where, in my review, i wrote, I love what's on Celine Song's mind, and that kind of rings true. I i really do. i love how she thinks about modern romance, and...
01:09:53
Speaker
Another phrase that's kind of been in my head that I like to use when and don't exactly know why I love a movie more than other people do, but... The hard one, smooth one.
01:10:05
Speaker
That is a good one. I did coin that phrase, but... ah no uh don't know the images and the sounds made my brain feel good i mean that's all that's what it i mean whether it's looking for a connection in in in art or film or with another person we're just looking for that tingly feeling on our brain really know at the end of the day i came in with but thinking that i was gonna have like a lot of criticism and i still do but like talking through the movie i'm like
01:10:36
Speaker
I do appreciate a lot of what this movie is is going for. So like, that's, that's why it's ultimately ends up in, in the, you know, the star like a category. Cause it, it, it's, it, you know, movies that maybe are, you know,
01:10:54
Speaker
on On paper, are they perfect? Do they check all the boxes? No. But like, i i am is it making me feel things or is it challenging me in a way that kind of stays with me? Because I'm still couple days later still thinking about aspects of it.
01:11:09
Speaker
And it's making me want to revisit or thinking about just quotes about things. love from other movies it's just it's making me think in a a kind of analytical way about love in in ah in affection which not that i've like never considered those things before but i'm i'm it's kind of you know since it's like very blunt in in that that that the it's kind of ah making me approach maybe certain things i'm I'm writing that have relationships. I'm like, how do I want to depict it in there? But then also, yeah, thinking about like things um of like how affection and love is, is been conveyed through movies in the past.
01:11:49
Speaker
There's a quote from, have you ever seen adaptation? The, uh, no age movie. I really want to, it's one I've been putting off. it's it's ah It's a great watch. this isn't I have it on my voodoo. This isn't a spoiler, really, just more of like a conversation characters have. So Nicolas Cage plays twin brothers. charlie It's like Charlie Kaufman and his brother that doesn't actually exist in real life, Donald Kaufman.
01:12:15
Speaker
And there's a scene where Charlie is like saying to Donald, like... yeah i'm kind of jealous that you i are just like oblivious because like you you don't aren't aware of like how what people what people think of you doesn't affect like ah your your life and you're kind of a free in that way and he gives this example of this girl that he asked out in high school and that you know after he walked away that they were making fun of him and and And he's like, yeah, you didn't even know that. And it's, but that, that was like freeing for you. And then he's like, no, I knew, i knew that she like made, made fun fun of me, ah but that doesn't, doesn't matter. And then like, like Charlie Kaufman's like confused. He's like, yeah, but I, she thought you were pathetic. Like why, what how could you like still feel that way about her? And, and, and this is a really good quote where he's like, that was her business, not mine.
01:13:07
Speaker
You are what you love, not what loves you. That's what I decided a long time ago. Like that that that the idea of like, yeah, like you, what what is Dakota Johnson says in the movie? Like love is the easiest thing because like you don't decide when those feelings occur how. But ultimately at the end of the day, regardless of whether you can fulfill those feelings, because yes, there is a fairy tale-esque resolution to in real life, all the Chris Evans of the world,
01:13:37
Speaker
don't end up with the girl of their dream. A lot of times, like those girls in the audience were suggesting, they will go with the Pedro Pascal. yeah I don't think that's out of line to say that you know in a lot of people would make the other decision. so Are they wrong for that?
01:13:54
Speaker
I i feel like the movie is kind of letting them off the hook a little bit. i Yeah, i don't i don't think I don't think it's judging that way. i Because like I said, I don't think the movie's negating that initial... like you know, summary of how the world works. I think, I think they're saying like, yeah, that is true, but you can also choose love if you want to, but also, yeah, I don't, I don't think, I don't think it's condemning you if you go the other way.
01:14:20
Speaker
And something you said earlier kind of reminded me of the phrase i had heard ah couple years ago, but it's that ah you are the love that you give. That's like the love in your life is the love that you have inside of you, basically. It's not. Not like externally like what? Yes, it's nice to get receive that love. But ultimately, it's like what you have is the like, that's what matters.
01:14:44
Speaker
And so I was fully prepared for because like when they start having that fight at the end, I was like, oh, OK, yeah, this movie has been pretty cynical. They're they're not going to end up together. So it was almost like kind of like I was like, oh, OK, this did work out ah way better than I would have anticipated because I was I was fully ready for like, yeah, they're they're not going to work out.
01:15:05
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't know what direction it was going to go in, but ultimately i I ended up satisfied with the hopeful ending. I don't mind a happy ending. No, I think... You know, problematic director David O. Russell has trained me through Silver Linings Playboy.
01:15:20
Speaker
At a very young age, I watched that movie, and it was, like, impressionable, but I apologize that it's coming from a David O. Russell movie. I mean, he used to kind of cook. like Yeah. Like, he sucks as a person, but he...
01:15:33
Speaker
well He used to make compelling, good films. The Fighter and Silver Linings playbook, those endings, just taking a turn into a happy ending can really work for me.
01:15:46
Speaker
um Like a sharp turn into a happy ending can work for me. yeah and and i'm not even against this movie having the happy ending it's more just like the way they do it that i'm still kind of like die digesting because because like i still think that like the less is more i i guess maybe this is reductive to say i want the more a24 version of this even though a24 is not you know like it's just a distribution company they're not the actual filmmaker but like the The more minimalist, and ah almost more ambiguous ending where we just end with him with the flowers getting the food yeah and we don't see the like that whole thing in the park.
01:16:27
Speaker
Or you end on the shot of like the hot kiss that I was talking about. When they go to the wide. After the kiss and then it like those that that kind of like wide shot at the end. It's the Avengers Endgame ending.
01:16:41
Speaker
You do that. You do the Avengers Endgame ending again, the shot of the kiss. it is it was crazy when Mark Ruffalo Smart Hulk came in and he was like dabbing. and i was like yeah do you ever think there was a day where you'd hate to see Ruffalo?
01:16:59
Speaker
no and i never thought that i know watching fox catcher i was like he used to be somebody now he's fucking the hulk most of the time now all his development is in other people's movies even in materialist the they're having this hulk storyline instead of doing a hulk movie it's i know it was very weird especially in an a twenty four movie but I was like, I don't even get how this works in a rights way. Like, is it because the Russos produced? I think we the Russos just turned Mark Ruffalo into the Hulk. I think he just looks that way now.
01:17:33
Speaker
That's why you haven't seen him in other movies. That'd be funny. He shows up in, he works with like Michael Mann again, but he just shows up as the Hulk. Yeah. that'd be great collateral too let's do it even though i think he spoilers for collateral he dies shot at tom cruise no bring him back bring tom cruise back and but he has an eye patch now yeah wants revenge on jamie fox oh it's like i'm back Yeah.
01:17:59
Speaker
Oh, man. I don't even know how we got there. We were doing so good, too, talking about the materialist. We were, like, being smart and analytical, and then we just couldn't help but, like, start doing superhero shit.
01:18:13
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, man. The materialist, though, and part of it does make me want to... Like, watching it did kind of make me...
01:18:26
Speaker
I want to just do, just try a bit harder, just do more, kind of. ah I don't know. I was just like, i feel like ah a Chris Evans sometimes, and I do want to not feel like a Chris Evans sometimes.
01:18:41
Speaker
I don't want to feel like him in the way that, like, when when you carry around that kind of frustration or like you being it almost like makes you you stuck because you're fixated on this person and then like it it makes you like he kept saying that he doesn't hate her but it it's understandable that she would think that because what why wouldn't someone grow to resent someone for that kind of scenario like basically you get dumped for being broke like the like
01:19:13
Speaker
that but he doesn't but and I believe it when he says that like no I don't hate her because I've been in that scenario where it's like yeah logically I should not like you but like I just can't help that you know like i I have those feelings yeah he does bring him because he's like broken family this and that and he's like are we a perfect match are we soulmates and she's like probably leave yeah yeah I like how just like calmly she says that But like Chris Evans, like an issue that Dakota Johnson has with him and is he brings up money a lot and not having a lot of money. And that's like a big thing.
01:19:56
Speaker
And there are times... I think about money and finances a lot, and I get sick of myself for how much I talk about like money issues and working and like you know trying to find better work, trying to further my education, trying to work to two jobs, or whatever it be.
01:20:16
Speaker
There are times I get sick of myself just... Yeah. I mean, I'd love to be able to take someone out on a nice date and not have to like kind of be anxious in the back of my head about how I'm going to pay for other stuff later in the week. But I, that's a feeling that I often have to do or thoughts that I often have to contend with.
01:20:38
Speaker
And that's something I'm like but in my relationship now I'm, I'm working against it. Cause I can kind of ruin a moment by bringing up like feelings.
01:20:49
Speaker
I got to watch the money in my head. I'm like, you know, I know I'll be good ah for this night. I planned for it. I, you know, and if I go over a little over budget, I'll figure it out.
01:21:02
Speaker
Bringing it up in that moment, I'm doing it more for me.
Personal Reflections and Anxieties
01:21:06
Speaker
And but it's killing the mood a little bit. And that's something I kind of had to learn where I'm like, it is. I'm like.
01:21:13
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really need to put that on somebody else. Just because that's in my mind, I don't need to, like... The time is not right to like like bring that out to the to the group right now. Yeah, and it seems like that's a bit of what Chris Evans is putting on Dakota Johnson.
01:21:30
Speaker
yeah i can see myself in that, and I'm like, that is kind of a burden, being that guy. And I've like been working a bit better to not be that guy as much. Because at the end, he's still broke, but he does have the line of like...
01:21:44
Speaker
I'm going when, you know, when he's making the promise that he's always going to love her ah the same amount and he's going to he's like, I'm not going to let myself forget that. It's like I think that's like all that stress and anxiety of very real world things where we have to like worry about money or how we're going to afford this and that that it can kind of get in the way of like.
01:22:05
Speaker
what should just be an effortless natural thing of love. yeah I totally agree ah because there are times where I'm like, I should just say shut up.
01:22:16
Speaker
i shouldn't I shouldn't say shut up. You can't tell your girlfriend to shut up. Yeah, not what I meant to say. I should just shut up and say, i i love you and just... yeah what you Nothing matters. Yeah. just that That love is what's important. Yeah. And yes, reality will come back the next day and you'll...
01:22:41
Speaker
maybe have to move some stuff around to make your finances where talking it's not going to change it if i bring it up right now it's just going to bum bum everyone out yeah like yeah i don't need i don't need to externalize that me and nick are working through some stuff on mic and so yeah I think these are things that everybody, the i think like despite the flaws that I, there's definitely flaws that I could throw against this movie. I think there's a lot of interesting things to chew on.
01:23:09
Speaker
And in that it's, what it's bringing us to this conversation and that these are kind of universal concerns, unless you're Pedro Pascal rich, yeah you never have real problems.
01:23:20
Speaker
Which isn't really realistic, which is why he's a unicorn. Right. that They're out there, but it's not that common. i mean, there are even points where I'm like, do I want to date Pedro Pascal?
01:23:31
Speaker
Oh, I would love to find a sugar mama. Like, any any women who want to ah to fund my lifestyle, that hit me up. It's an appealing life.
01:23:43
Speaker
Yeah. But... It's not realistic to just assume you're that's the life you're going to end up in. And it's probably not healthy to chase that life when it's outside of your means.
01:23:55
Speaker
like Like she says to her the client after you know after the us assault happens and she's kind of like kind of just questioning to her whole thing and she's talking to other clients, she says to that that one a woman who has like the list printed out of everything she wants is like,
01:24:11
Speaker
you're not entitled to like that, like a perfect guy. Like the longer you go without finding Mr. Right, you think that you're owed it more, but you're not. and Also, you're not a catcher. Like i I, I, I laughed out loud when she said when that, when how blah, and those scenes are, i think intentionally comedic cause like it's shot straight on, you know like they say always comedy is like the flat. If you want to convey ah something comedic visually that,
01:24:38
Speaker
you kind of have the the shot be be really flat so but yeah i i but it's also true that we're not oh i i mean yeah she's being very probably shouldn't talk to her clients like that if you want to keep her job but also that she's not wrong that you're you're not owed that you know perfect person and then you also can't even with all the tools that like apps or whatever premium services are provide this isn't like a video game where you like make a custom character like this is like a person you know yeah can't just like i mean i guess with maybe you can't i there are i think i have read articles that people are like dating chat gtp or some oh god scary
01:25:20
Speaker
Yeah. i I feel like those scenes where they were ah kind of like um almost like interviews with her different clients. Reaction shot.
01:25:32
Speaker
I did kind of feel bad for the actors. Those scenes unintentionally seem to have opened them up for criticism from the audience, especially the one like white dude who is I don't know if he's in his 50s, but he's like, I want an older girl. Girls in twenty s He's like, I want an older girl. And she's like, 39. He's like, how about 27? Even 29 would be pushing it. Yeah.
01:25:58
Speaker
I think those performances get off fire. Well, that guy, like, when he said that, someone in the audience, like in that group in front was like, But he's ugly.
01:26:09
Speaker
Like she said that really loud. And I was like, do you kind of feel bad? Like, I guess these actors are kind of like full display for like they're criticizing. Their job is to embody the worst, most superficial aspect of like. Yeah.
01:26:24
Speaker
Desire and dating. And they're just getting heat from the audience, it seems. It's kind of like if you get cast in, like, a his historical movie.
Actors, Stereotypes, and Audience Reaction
01:26:33
Speaker
I think Roy Roy Jr. ah once said in a stand-up, like, a movie about racism is only as good as the but people playing the racist in it. Because, like, they have to embody everything that's wrong with the era.
01:26:45
Speaker
But then also, if they're too good at it, it's kind of suspicious. You're like, wait a minute. You, like, say in the end we're a little too much, didn't you? so that's why you cast mal gibson yeah that's not even that he doesn't even know he's in a movie if you do that he's just like making a phone call yeah it's like that simpsons bit with robert downey jr they're like look robert downey jr's filming a shootout with the police bart's like ah how come i don't see any cameras so wow
01:27:16
Speaker
it's a good joke Yeah, they might be at like Hollywood Studios, some like Universal. They went somewhere. It was a funny bit, though. Simpsons. Good show. Good show. but does Now streaming on Disney plus. Yeah.
01:27:31
Speaker
Materialists. I mean, for me, at least like great movie. I think I would say good movie. I'm, I'm, I, I was like kind of on the fence before coming here, but talking through it, I'm, I, I, like I said, I'm, I'm giving it that star. So if I start, I mean one star cause it fucking sucked. You mean the heart?
01:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. I meant the heart heart star. Uh, and ah
01:27:57
Speaker
Yeah. Tell her getting kind of loopy here. We are. um But yeah, I, this, I think this was a good convo though. I just kind of a comvo here i i want to go back to that interview with Celine song and the movies that she, she mentioned, ah uh check check out some of those that she said and inspired this and i don't think i revealed this to you on or but off mic i haven't seen past lives so i've i wanted to like check that that was like ah one of my biggest takeaways from i'm like huh i wonder what past lives is like compared to this because i like a lot of the people in that movie so i think i will probably like it
01:28:39
Speaker
It's different. You know, Amy Nicholson in her review said that materialist is past lives if you turn it on its side, but it's better. It's like a step forward.
01:28:52
Speaker
I don't really see what she means by that. Past lives is kind of seems like they're covering different territory. Yeah, Past Lives is more so um for, I mean, potential spoilers for past loves past lives.
01:29:08
Speaker
um It's about, like, lost love, basically. um Like, love that didn't have a chance to happen and learning to kind of let go a little bit of that. I mean, it's in the title a little bit. that's not really materialist's deal. i mean Yeah, it's a bit more sincere. Past Lives is very good. I watched it on my phone and like a very hard day when I was living in California,
01:29:36
Speaker
and you it like It hit me hard then, and I feel like it would hit me harder on like a not-so-tough day. i i really want to re-watch that after watching Materialist.
01:29:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's on Netflix. So um streaming on now on Netflix, check out Past Lives. I'm going to watch it. Yes, I'm going to be re-watching it. Celine, maybe I'll re-watch it tonight.
01:30:01
Speaker
Celine Song is one of my favorite um newer filmmakers right there with ah those Talk to me bring me back Bring Her Back. i'm I'm very interested to see, yeah, like what trajectory or like what kind of movie she does. Yeah, what kind of Marvel movie are they going to give her?
Filmmaking Transitions and Celine Song's Prospects
01:30:19
Speaker
ah Or do you think she'll be a part of the DC Guniverse? Okay, well, real talk, it would be better to of those two to be in the Gunverse, because I presume, even though this universe hasn't even really started yet... Marvel's kind of creatively bankrupt. Yeah, and I assume that Gun's thing is going to just be letting a filmmaker do their thing. Yeah.
01:30:42
Speaker
Like, I don't... Was this canceled or not? But there was at one point, Luca Guadagnino was going to do like, a World War II comic movie with, like... ah Why am I forgetting his name? Daniel Craig. ah Sergeant Rock or something. I think I know what you're talking about. Was that canceled? I think that was canceled. And I wrote an article that was all rumor based and I feel like it was full of shit.
01:31:07
Speaker
It seemed like an attack on Luca Guadagnino after Challengers and Queer came out. But it was saying that there are rumors that James Gunn and the studio fired him because they didn't believe that he was equipped to handle filming action.
01:31:22
Speaker
And I was like, Even then, they get like second unit people for that if they need to. like That's all like animated and previs and stuff. like like why wouldn't Also, that's the wrong I still need to see Queer.
01:31:34
Speaker
Maybe I'll watch it this month. Happy Pride. But ah i think challengers my takeaway would not be this person can't do action because that final tennis match there's some crazy camera work in that like when it's like the i don't even know how they did it if there there had to be some digital effects use where it seems like that they just put a camera on the ball and it like goes back and like that makes me want to see action from him i'm like oh fuck this he could actually like do something really interesting
01:32:05
Speaker
I mean, fucking another Dakota Johnson movie, Suspiria. I still need to see his Suspiria. Horror has proven to translate very well into the super making.
01:32:16
Speaker
ah sort you yeah People who have like really done well in horror have went to superhero filmmaking and succeeded there. Suspiria has like legitimate like choreography that seems very difficult. Yeah, dancing is basically great.
01:32:33
Speaker
i mean, there's like a scene that's like way more than dance in that movie that I think you'll absolutely adore. um i really need to see it. Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't actually. it seems right up your alley. I really was Challengers my first Luke. No, no. I'd seen Bones and all. So I've i I have a lot of but like I still don't see Call Me By Your Name. No, I haven't. I haven't seen it either.
01:32:59
Speaker
But i love I love Tim Tim. It's the army hammer of it all that's holding me back My favorite actor. Love everything about him.
01:33:11
Speaker
and There's two of them too. That's weird. Yeah, well, one of one of them is the bad one. That's the guy who did all the bad stuff. The other army. that's what he should have That should have been his defense. Yeah, it's like, have you guys not seen the social network? It was the other one. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm the good one.
01:33:28
Speaker
Yeah, the bad one did all of that. I don't know. um But yeah, I don't really believe that ah that's the case. But I do think the project isn't happening anymore.
01:33:40
Speaker
um Hopefully, I am excited to see what Celine Song does next, though. oh Also, shout out Celine Song. I don't know if this was intentional um reference, but I feel like all filmmakers after a certain generation are and have to be somewhat influenced by David Lynch.
01:33:58
Speaker
There's a nighttime POV driving scene that feels like very Lost bos Highway has a lot of shots like that. and it And it kind of doesn't really even need to be in the movie other than if you wanted to make a Lost Highway reference. That's why I think that that had to be an intentional Lost Highway reference.
01:34:14
Speaker
Nice. I did like the nighttime driving conversation with Dakota Johnson and Chris Evans, interrupted by the fight, just the contrast. like I've had arguments with people where I've thought to myself mid-argument, like, this is going to be so weird.
01:34:31
Speaker
Yeah. Well, especially when you need to put it on pause, like you're going to another because she's on the phone with ah is it Sarah the whole time. Oh, I was referring to like earlier in the movie when they're first driving in his car. Oh, that cut that fight then it cuts back. I love I love that cut. Yeah.
01:34:50
Speaker
I've thought like this is going to be so weird when we actually have to like deal with this. But then like having the fight happen and then being together and reflecting on it after you've already lost the person and kind of just being able to like at least in my head i would be like wasn't that stupid? Like why did we do all of that?
01:35:12
Speaker
You know? Yeah, and you can definitely tell, even with, like, the kind of, ah we like we said before, we don't get much with, like, in terms of the writing for Chris Evans' character, but we can still buy, I buy that, like, that experience has made him appreciative, like, well, shit, yeah, I really shouldn't have, like...
01:35:35
Speaker
like I should have been more appreciative of of of what I had when we we were to together. her like Why was I complaining
Character Relatability and Formulaic Movies
01:35:41
Speaker
about that shit? you know like Because like he like he says um later in the movie, it's like, oh, i was I was hoping you'd say I'm different because then I wouldn't be the guy who who lost you.
01:35:50
Speaker
I really felt that line too. there This movie just really, again, from all the characters, Pascal, Chris Evans, Johnson, there's something underneath the surface of all of these people that I really connect with deep down.
01:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, I almost think I'm coming around to thinking that, like, any underriddenness in any aspects of of any of the core three is almost intentional to the to the degree of that, like, you can kind of insert yourself into ah either it's one of those slots.
01:36:26
Speaker
Like, that they're they're not complete blank slates. Like, they have histories and, like, characteristics, but... But we there's a lot of like gaps in what we know about about them. Like we were really just seeing this one specific moment out of their lives and then maybe, you know, like that one flashback.
01:36:42
Speaker
But ah I think that that kind of does enable you to step into that relationship or their lives and then think about your own relationships of like, yeah, have I which have I been him? Have I been her? Have I, you know, like how did I handle these kind of things?
01:37:00
Speaker
Because in a conventional movie, they would really lack substance, but not in a way where there wouldn't be a movie around it that would be giving you that much to think about in regard to their characters.
01:37:14
Speaker
You can't have an in-depth conversation like this on a Hallmark. No shade the Hallmark movies. My mom watches them all the time. I'll occasionally sit down and, you know, they they have a...
01:37:25
Speaker
ah very reliable structure and that's you know there's some satisfaction to watching something that almost has almost no conflict and you know everything's gonna work out fine my grandma loves her hallmark movies especially around christmas i have to go in well it's not me christmas movies early yeah dude like end of summer they started like cranking out those christmas movies We all go in, like right when we get over to my grandma's house on Christmas Eve, we go for the remote and try and It has to be a Christmas movie, so there won't be protest, but we have to find just something else Christmas movie or Christmas related that's better than the Hallmark movie that's on.
01:38:04
Speaker
that's not too hard to do yeah no like I said no shit also Hallmark if you're listening I'm available if you want me to write those movies I don't know if you guys are using AI to write the scripts for those yet but don't you you should hire me I can write all I'll just come up with something where i don't know the ah ah guy does a body swap and then the girl gets mad that he didn't tell ah her that he swapped bodies and then They got to resolve their differences and at the end they all love each other. Doesn't that sound good? Hire me.
01:38:38
Speaker
ah It sounds like a Hallmark movie. Yeah. I dig it. um We got any final thoughts on materialists? Did we already do the final thoughts? I guess we we we... we've been doing the final thoughts yeah for 20 minutes now the more but i i'm i i'm warming up to it more in terms of like it's making like like i said i want to watch past lives but it is it's it's given me something to chew on and i appreciate any movie that can do that even one that has flaws like i don't i mean what movie is actually perfect besides the thing how yeah
01:39:13
Speaker
you know Good point. The Thing, Halloween, another Carpenter. That's pretty perfect. Pretty much like ah ah the half of Carpenter's filmography. Popstar, that's a pretty perfect movie. but Not everything can be Popstar, Never Stop, Never Stop. Popstar and The Thing. I think those are and like Citizen Kane. The pinnacle of filmmaking. Citizen Kane, The Thing, Popstar. Yeah, put it on a shirt.
01:39:40
Speaker
Yeah, let's the alice do that. Yeah, sure and build a cinematic universe off those three movies. Oh, that sounds good. Let's get Orson Welles in a cinematic universe. I do got to say i just because of like...
01:39:56
Speaker
how much you did have to say about the movie through text and how ah open you were to like reviewing it after seeing it. And also, just you seemed to be against ah a lot of the criticism that was coming towards it.
01:40:13
Speaker
I was under the impression that you wholeheartedly loved this movie. but i Well, I'll defend something against criticisms that I think... I just... get annoyed at what I interpret to be kind of bad faith critiques where it doesn't seem like the person's like actually engaging with the thing that a lot of times it kind of
Trailer Expectations and Viewer Perceptions
01:40:34
Speaker
just feels like, especially ah corners of film, Twitter, I hang on, people just like want to dunk on It's like, oh, who who's who' was in the dunking booth today? You know, like of those things at a carnival where you throw a ball the clown, they get dunked in the thing. It's like, we just arbitrarily decided it's this director. And it's like, why? Yeah, it does feel... feel like the criticism lobbied at materialists is a bit more mean than normally gets lobbied at movies. And for what reason? Like, what is offensive about this, even if any of the things I mentioned, or maybe there's things other things in this movie that didn't work for some people, but I don't know what about it would be, like, offensive that would make people, like, have this kind of...
01:41:16
Speaker
Like at most, I could understand someone walking away from it feeling like conflicted or like maybe confused about how they felt about certain things like that makes sense. But like to be like angry, like I'm like, why? i have two theories. I feel like someone maybe may feel called out by it, but may not understand that the movie is in a way kind of letting them off the hook as it's calling them out.
01:41:41
Speaker
Or I think people may not see this as their experience. Maybe some people didn't and ah like dating hasn't always been this way. And I think people may not just be, there isn't a like,
01:41:57
Speaker
Something I notice about um some people in the way they review movies, if it doesn't line up with their exact experience, they kind of reject what they're watching it. They don't take it as realistic. And if it doesn't line up in a literal way, because you kind of have to... Not that the movie is being subtle about it, but, like, yeah, I've seen people say that, like, no one...
01:42:17
Speaker
normal people don't talk like people talk in this movie. Like, yeah, ever normal people aren't doing like talking like business deals about relationships, but that, that isn't that how we think about like when we're swiping on who we swipe on and the filters that we use on, on apps, like that's just like a literalization of that mentality. So like, if you can't make the jump to that, it's like, then you might just be like, Oh, well the writing is bullshit. Who talks like this? Yeah. Yeah.
01:42:47
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't fully agree with most of the criticism I've heard, but I've been open. you know, I've read reviews. i I mean, if everyone felt the same way about something, that would be that would be pretty boring. And honestly, like some of the most interesting art is like the divisive yeah stuff. That's why some of my boys like are guys like Shyamalan, you know, like where it's going to be like there will not be ah sometimes just be split down the middle.
01:43:12
Speaker
Yeah, this movie just does feel oddly like picked on, if you could call it that. And maybe that is the trailer's fault. I thought the trailer was great. ah There's two trailers out. One of them is very subversive. And I that's the one I saw. i really enjoyed it.
01:43:29
Speaker
Oh, so is that not the one where where it's playing like Material Girl and it's like kind of all poppy and edited to be like a a regular rom-com? That's the one I saw. It looked like it was and like going to be a traditional rom-com. And I saw the A24 logo and I was like, this has to take a turn at some point. unless ah I was like, unless A24 is like we are going to really bring back the rom-com I was like, this has to take a turn. And then it's like, the title comes up, Materialists.
01:44:00
Speaker
And then the next shot is her talking about ah nothing wrong with a few inches or whatever. Yeah. and yeah So I really enjoyed that trailer. Yeah, I think it's a good trailer. but There's another trailer out that isn't that clever. It might set up someone's expectations and in the wrong kind of way. Like, like if you just want...
01:44:23
Speaker
if you just want the wedding singer basically like you're not going to find it here i don't know why that's my go-to rom-com i watched that movie so much as a kid so it was a comfort movie maybe that's why that's my like platonic ideal of a of a rom-com watch the wedding singer don't know what that's streaming on but nowadays i go to crazy rich asians just because that's one of my favorite rom-coms but that's not even like a traditional rom-com either It's yeah, but it's definitely more structurally. It's traditional. but Yeah, it it falls more into that ah formula than than this does. Yes.
01:45:02
Speaker
Intentionally subverting stuff. And there is humor, but I yeah, I wouldn't call it a rom-com. Yeah, there's also fantastical elements of Crazy Rich Asian in different ways. yeah but Yeah, because I've seen just people judge it on the merits of like, this fails at being rom-com. I'm like, it's not trying to be really... Yeah, unless people just don't understand what the trailer was doing, if they genuinely bought it as a rom-com and didn't understand the tongue-in-cheek nature of it.
01:45:32
Speaker
I mean, I think I i saw the trailer a couple I think the first time I did question of like, oh, 824 is just doing a straightforward rom-com. I did until the title. Right when I saw the title, I was like, I see what this movie is doing right now. And it was doing exactly what the title drop like made me feel like it was doing.
01:45:51
Speaker
Oh, I guess you're smarter than me. I didn't pick it up until ah another viewing of the trailer. i the and You know, I typically don't watch trailers, but yeah, it was just something... You know, if they didn't have that little change at the end, I would have bought it as a wholehearted rom-com. But there was something about that title.
01:46:11
Speaker
i was like, ah I don't buy this as a rom-com. And then at least in my... theater all the trailers for the action before materialists i mean there were a couple 824 trailers but a lot of them were just rom-com trailers like movies i know some movie called bride hard with rebel wilson where she's like a spy and is like the best uh what's well but She's like a bridesmaid at at a wedding that gets taken over by terrorists and it's like diehard. I feel like you made that up right now. It sounds fake.
01:46:47
Speaker
It sounds like a fake movie, right? The only trailer I actually remember in general from any movie I've been seeing is the Sorry Baby trailer. I feel like that's been playing before everything.
01:46:59
Speaker
Well, Sorry. It's another A24 movie. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's usually playing around the time I'm walking in and I was like, I'm just always thinking like, what is the plot to this? I'm never like fully paying attention enough or watching it enough to clock what the plot of it is.
01:47:18
Speaker
But I see it. I'm there for That's what it's called. Yeah, sorry, baby. Sorry, comma, baby. Sorry, baby. Yeah, sorry, baby. um But yeah, that's Materialists.
01:47:29
Speaker
That was a good up. I hope people dig it. think they will. Also, shout out Zootopia. There's an interview with Celine Song ah recently. the She was like, yeah, if I had to pick one movie to watch forever, or like if Desert Island, if I could only pick one movie, it would be Zootopia.
01:47:49
Speaker
I think she was being kind of tongue in cheek with the answer. But even if she wasn't, like, I haven't seen Zootopia. But I heard it's like one of the a legit, like a good animated movie.
01:48:00
Speaker
Get Celine's song to direct Zootopia 3. Oh, right, because they already got someone doing 2. But get her, yeah, bring her on for 3. Yeah, but I saw some people, like, dunking on her for that. I'm like, that's fine. People suck. What is wrong?
Filmmakers' Preferences and Audience Judgments
01:48:13
Speaker
Why? Thomas Anderson liked Venom 2, all right? So, like, don't... yeah people are quentin tarantino's got wild opinions flying out of his trap all the time his movie takes are ridiculous sometimes like yeah so ah i someone can be a ah talented artist and not but also from my understanding zootopia is fine like there's nothing wrong with but saying even if she was being 100 serious saying that who gives a shit yeah um everybody chill out and just go go touch some grass so outside touch the grass touch the ground
01:48:49
Speaker
Speaking of a ridiculous movie takes, and I'll say this before we like get to our plugs and everything, because I feel like this could open a whole new can of worms, but we could save this for another app. um What's it called?
01:49:05
Speaker
I saw Mission Impossible Final Reckoning again, guys, and i love it now. I was listening yeah was listening to our episode, and I was like, damn, I don't feel this way anymore. And I saw it like the day or a day or two after recording that episode. I had saw it again. I was like, damn, I love it now. Ladies and gentlemen, we got them.
01:49:24
Speaker
We got them. You guys got me. you Before the entity was like psyching you out too much. you were That's what the entity wanted you to think when you were opinion of the movie but now we can save the world because i think otherwise yeah hell yeah well i wanted to bring people those good news that good news um you got any plugs uh the count two now streaming on it was up prime Written and directed by Doug Davenport.
01:49:52
Speaker
I forget who actually directed it. i Those movies are fun. i don't know. i'm i'm Bring on the Counting 3. Let's make it the next John Wick franchise. And then then also have spinoffs. like Do the ballerina, but for the accountant, the ballerina must have seen her. Ballerina must seen her from the auditorium.
01:50:14
Speaker
I dig it. um You can follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Ewers. Check out my horror podcast, Morbid Curiosities. We just dropped 28 Weeks Later, doing 28 Years Later next.
01:50:26
Speaker
I'm excited to hear those.
Promotions and Personal Projects
01:50:28
Speaker
Hell yeah. it's I'm pretty proud of the 28 Weeks Later episode, actually. we Her and I have different opinions on the movie, but it lent for a good conversation.
01:50:38
Speaker
Yeah, those can always be compelling. Yeah. It ah came out pretty good. So go check that out if you want, guys. And there was something else I was going to say. Your Letterboxd, did you plug that?
01:50:50
Speaker
ah At Letterboxd, follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Ewers. I think I might have done that. Oh yeah, my letterbox TheDuggerNaut. You can follow me on Twitter DouggerNaut underscore two. I don't remember in past episodes if I've said at TheDuggerNaut, but that's incorrect. That will lead you to some fake person. It's just at DouggerNaut underscore two on Twitter. um Also my YouTube, TheDugFiles.
01:51:16
Speaker
um I still have stuff stuff that I need to catch up and upload on there, but I think what that's going to become ah is like kind of more... I mean, it'll be more of visual focused things like kind of like like me little mini the ah video essays on like maybe you just like breaking down like a scene I like from from so a certain thing.
01:51:37
Speaker
And, you know, maybe it might be something that like, oh, I really like this scene and there's something about on my YouTube. And then maybe it might end up something that we end up covering on on this feed at some point. You know, like I feel like there might be some some crossover and in things that I talk about on there and that we.
01:51:55
Speaker
we do on on here so you know check check that out hell yeah i can't wait to hear um well i'm nicholas sewers i'm doug damport and we're these guys got juice have a good night good night