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Longlegs Follow Up Discussion with Lexy Van Dyke (Schooled By Cinema)
2 Plays3 months ago
Today on These Guys Guy Juice, the guys are joined by Lexy Van Dyke of the Schooled By Cinema Podcast to talk some more Longlegs! Go into this one prepared for spoilers right away!
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Transcript
Introduction and Spoiler Warning
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm Doug Davenport. I'm Nick Ewers. And we're These Guys Got Cheesed. And we saw Long Lakes. And today with us, we have Lexi Van Dyke from Schooled by Cinema joining us to do some Long Lakes talk. How are you, Lexi?
00:00:37
Speaker
Hi there. Am I me or am I a doll version of me? That's the question. I mean, that's wow. We'll start with the big questions. We really just have to ask that at all times. Real quick, spoilers for Long Legs. We're just going to spoil the whole thing. We already did a Long Legs episode that had a non-spoiler section. And shame on you if you're listening to this without having seen the movie. Go see Long Legs. Yeah, and shame on you for just not listening to all of our episodes already.
00:01:05
Speaker
You don't listen in order. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for having me on. I'm very excited to talk about Long Lakes because it.
00:01:15
Speaker
is something I've been wanting to talk about for a week since I saw it. Yeah. I saw you had a post that said you had this this really exciting take you wanted to talk about specifically.
Lexi's Analysis of 'Long Legs' Scenes
00:01:25
Speaker
And I think I think if it's the scene I'm thinking about of where it's long legs himself in the store, like like because like the whole movie, we're only catching glimpses of him and like these flashbacks or he's out of frame and stuff like that. The scene that scene is like the first time we get like
00:01:42
Speaker
a better look at but even then we don't even fully see his face because he does like the like they're just shooting. Yeah. I fucking love that. Yeah. So the whole thing that I kind of was thinking that when I was watching it and then I listened to interview with the director afterwards and it kind of did facilitate
00:02:08
Speaker
more of what I was kind of thinking when I first saw it was that this is, I, this is kind of a comment on true crime.
Director's Commentary on True Crime Fascination
00:02:15
Speaker
That's what Osgood Perkins has talked about is that this is his kind of interpretation about how true crime has kind of evolved in our society. And the whole idea is that, and I think this is kind of so much more interesting. Also, when you look at the marketing and stuff is that Long Life is not cool. He's not cool or interesting. No, he's a, and the whole
00:02:38
Speaker
No, so sorry, you could go go go ahead. No. So like the whole point of that scene is to show if you are not embroiled in this world of him and his like victims and looking after him. He is not an interesting person. These people who kill people who
00:02:57
Speaker
you know, our serial killers are not cool or interesting. We should not think that they are. And her looking at him in the market is the whole world looking at these people being like, what are you doing? You are not cool or interesting.
00:03:13
Speaker
That's that's such a good take and I think that's so true of like I go in and out of true crime plays or something It's usually just like when there if there is a doc or docu series that everyone's buzzing about like I guess I have to see it But there is yeah But yeah, there is something tantalizing about you want to hear about this Like you almost feel like you're like a little junior detective yourself, even though even if the things already been solved you look
00:03:35
Speaker
Let me look at the clues here in this.
Media Portrayal of Serial Killers
00:03:38
Speaker
I think that's true of at least the serial killers that are known and have been caught. One, they're not cool or interesting, but they're also not smart usually. I've rewatched Zodiac way too many times than I should.
00:03:55
Speaker
Every time I watch that movie, I come away with like, this guy's a dumbass. Like he's makes so many. The only reason that he went on cause like the police made so many, like small errors in their investigation, or they weren't looking at the right thing at the right time. And he or just he just got lucky a lot of the time. And then like he just is a very pathetic person. Like he's like writing letters for attention. Like even after the murders that we know about have stopped, like he's just like,
00:04:20
Speaker
He just wants attention and credit for stuff like he's just like really needy and pathetic. So I think that's cool to have like Nicholas Cage's long legs be like like a fictional reflection of that of like, because, yeah, he's I mean, he's facilitating and doing like very horrendous, brutal
Character Background: Long Legs
00:04:37
Speaker
stuff. But it's all he himself is he's nobody, you know, like he's he's he's and me and Nick talk kind of touched on this in our
00:04:47
Speaker
Last episode, when we were kind of imagining, just from the pieces, we get some kind of backstory for this guy, because he seems like he's a little bit of social outcast, maybe, has some kind of, I mean, especially back then, he wouldn't have any officially diagnosed thing if he was on the spectrum or anything like that, but probably maybe was a loner, felt rejected by society, got into some hair metal, glam rock, and as you do, you start worshiping Satan after that.
00:05:17
Speaker
Yeah, things like Satanism or things like Heavy Metal, Rock, they are very welcoming to the loner, the person who's kind of dejected from society, or someone who just experiences being bullied or an outcast growing up. So yeah, that plays or fits right into him kind of just being a nobody.
00:05:45
Speaker
Not really having much of an existence outside of, like, everything he's doing that's awful in this movie, really.
Motivations Behind Long Legs' Actions
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, he's kind of created this cult of personality around himself that has been picked up on by the FBI simply because he's putting- he's doing these horrendous things.
00:06:06
Speaker
And so it's like he probably doesn't even know what he's doing or why he's doing what he's still doing. It's just like that's the only thing he knows what to do or how to succeed at. So it's like he's just going to keep doing it because he gets the attention of the FBI and all this stuff for it. And he's able to, as we see at the end of the movie, kind of get away with it under the radar of an FBI agent for so long.
00:06:33
Speaker
Do you have a specific read of the end of the movie at all? That like, not necessarily the final shot, but the gun not firing?
Ambiguity of Film's Ending
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah, so I wrote it down. So the ending is kind of like, the point is for it to kind of be vague because violence has no point. It just creates this cycle that begets more violence. And so it's like,
00:07:02
Speaker
What is going to happen at the end of this? It's going to just lead to these traumatic experiences for the families, not only the London Square Underwood family and his daughter and also Michael Monroe, but then also the weird and also like the families who have been affected by it and people who might create more, you know, copycats or look up to this person because of what he did and was able to succeed from.
00:07:32
Speaker
right that's a good point because like even you know she kills her mother and Blair Underwood but like this probably won't stop like even you know if she gets his daughter Blair Underwood's daughter away and they go into hiding or something are able to like stay out of this it's
00:07:49
Speaker
the devil, you know, he can find someone else to like get start killing again, like, you're not, he doesn't die at the end, right? Like he's, he's still out there. Well, I interpret the final, that was just like right before that he had smashed his face that he did.
00:08:07
Speaker
Well they do show him like- I think I just block that out because it is so traumatized. Well they show him alive and well at the very end of the movie so that might have like overridden the memory of the face smashing.
00:08:23
Speaker
It was gnarly. It was like maybe more brutal than the other actual murders we see in the movie, yeah. Yeah, face smashing shit, like self-inflicted, like face smashing is like especially hard, like talk to me has a really crazy one. I was just thinking, talk to me has such an intense scene of that when he's possessed and doing it, yeah.
Satanism in 'Long Legs'
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah, it's all pretty effective whenever they can use that.
00:08:48
Speaker
Yes, so what did you guys think of the Satanism and demonic aspects of the film?
00:08:55
Speaker
I love I thought all that was so well incorporated. And I I've I talked about this with Nick before, but that I I struggle with at least an American horror. Like sometimes when it's revealed there's like demons or something, then I'm just like, really, we're doing this again. It's like not as exciting. But like, I don't know, it's been multiple stuff this year. I'm like, oh, the devil's kind of scary. I mean, between the first omen and this. Thirty four years of life to
00:09:24
Speaker
I realize the devil's scary. I was like, devil, whatever. But yeah, it's and it's it's not just that it's the devil, it's just the specific way that we're seeing it expressed. It's such a weird, specific like the idea of like these little orbs that are put into the dolls and then the way that they're brought into the home and it's infested.
00:09:48
Speaker
I wanted to follow because me and Nick talked about this that like the mother, obviously we find at the end that like she's the accomplice and she's actually been doing a lot of the groundwork of like, you know, she delivers the dolls and she has to see it. She talks about that all those years ago, she had the choice and she chose to save herself and her daughter to and took this like, you know, Faustian bargain.
00:10:10
Speaker
But it's interesting that the time the mother that takes the offer, because presumably he also has offered this to other families and other mothers, that you know, the Crimson Clover, but she's the one who accepts it. But this was a family with no father, that like, he is kind of becomes a father figure. Because like, when he's being, when he's being interrogated, he's talking about like, Oh, you joined the F
00:10:38
Speaker
bi you know we laugh like like almost like that he's reminiscing about like a family member or loved one like almost like he considered like this is like by doing this with your mom we're we're all together in this you know like you're you know he's basically i mean daddy long legs you know like it's word so i think that word association is intentional yes
00:11:00
Speaker
I find that so fascinating. I find the whole and I find this to be more like, as I'm thinking back about on it, it's seems to be more about like the family dynamics and how what parents would do to protect their children. And sometimes what we do to protect our children can be detrimental to
Character Dilemmas and Complicity
00:11:18
Speaker
our kids actually growing up because we want to protect them from everything. And so like, so what happens is that
00:11:28
Speaker
the mother ends up making her daughter almost an accomplice in this by protecting her from it. And it becomes a double-edged sword.
00:11:39
Speaker
Which, yeah, that's some heavy stuff to lay on your case. I mean, it's a bad scenario anyway, because what her options are, she and her daughter die and are brutally murdered, or she goes and does this awful thing. Like, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, really. Like, it's just fucked either way. It's pretty, it's pretty awful. Not that I'm, like, justifying what the mom does, but I'm just like, I, I mean, what is she supposed to do? Be like, yeah, go ahead, kill my daughter. Like, it's fine.
00:12:07
Speaker
I think that leads into the ominousness of this movie. I'm sorry, go ahead.
00:12:11
Speaker
Well, I did have a question going back to like that, uh, that shop scene. So that family, he didn't do anything with that daughter. That wasn't a part of that. That was like way before he started this, uh, murder spree, right? So that's probably the early, the way we track time. Usually it's like, we'll see what presidents on the wall. And that's how we know what decade it is. But like, is it kind of seems like also just by his, what we see of his face, like,
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah, because like the more recent instances of him, you can see like that he's had and like there's an interview with Osgood Perkins and I think also like the makeup person, the idea of like that he keeps getting like these kind of botched surgeries of like not just that they're invoking like these kind of like washed up clam rock stars, but then also like almost that he's trying to like beautify himself for Satan, you know, that he keeps getting the surgery done because he's like, oh, well, this is you know, I'm trying to impress. So
00:13:07
Speaker
I think that also has to do with the whole doll aspect because he makes these perfect dolls and like he's trying to like make himself a better perfect person. Yeah, exactly. It's almost you can imagine. Sorry.
00:13:21
Speaker
I was gonna say do you think that shop scene is like the inciting incident like that? I was always trying to read him driving away I feel like there's something to that scene like his interaction with her the way like She kind of talks to him then when he's sitting there driving alone inside like both times I've seen it I've always felt like there's I feel like there's something to both like I
00:13:47
Speaker
him driving in that scene at the shop like more to it than i've been able to get but i want to know if you guys were able to get anything uh from any of that i want to watch this movie again i just haven't been able to yeah but i feel like that that's very likely and i think that that would make a lot of sense like i wish that i could watch it again and maybe that they're like
00:14:12
Speaker
There's something on the wall that shows something about the time period and where it is and where she is. I feel like her dismissal of him is so important to him and how he continues his next actions. I think it's just...
00:14:31
Speaker
There's so much that when you imagine that that's not the first time that he's been dismissed or like, you know Call the freak, you know, like people just are like what what are you? You know dismissed by Lee's mom also Later when we see that but also his skin looks like it's different than it does in that shop So I'm kind of unsure like the distance in time because he's still driving the same car Right. I'm unsure I would
00:15:00
Speaker
kind of like to know like the timeline when that scene takes place in relation to when he is there to deliver the doll to Lee's house.
Film Timeline and Key Scenes
00:15:09
Speaker
I've seen people theorize that that's the 70s like because he, I mean, the main movie is the 90s. And then that is that style of car seems very, you know, it seems 70s, we don't
00:15:21
Speaker
You don't get we really need was a picture of Jimmy Carter on the wall that really you submit when it was. But but that makes sense, like, at least the early it's the yeah, his face, his face looks different. Everything I feel like that that's the earliest instance of him we see and that that maybe for him was like, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back of like and then maybe that's just how
00:15:49
Speaker
you know, at such a low point, or being so isolated from society is when, you know, Satan, I don't know, I don't know how Satan reaches out to be, you know, he just sees like, you've been listening to some devil adjacent music, right? Oh, yeah, it seemed like you might be into this.
00:16:05
Speaker
I'm kind of imagining because it's not quite winter yet I think at the time of that like shop scene so I'm thinking maybe that takes place like a couple seasons or like a year or so before the Lee Harker scene and my impression is that the Lee Harker scene isn't
00:16:25
Speaker
Fully is it involved in like that chain triangle? That they're creating like how many years is this right? Like how has he already done? multiple killings at that point I think the chain has been I I didn't do the full like obviously I saw a lot of the online marketing, but I think if you go to the site you can see like a more
00:16:47
Speaker
thorough chronology of the murders like in a kind of true crime fashion she was like the third or the fourth or something like that like he had already done a few at that point because that's where the hole was in there in like the diagram that they had created right they're like why is there this hole here and that was the day
00:17:07
Speaker
then he went to visit her.
Dolls and Sinister Killings
00:17:10
Speaker
Okay, so it's still early on, but yeah, she's not the first one. So what was the plan without Lee's mom? He just shows up like a freak with this doll and being like, hey, family. I mean, I guess that's when he shows up to Lee's house, like, hey, from the church. But like, that guy shows up, I don't, not letting you in. I'm not digging that doll. No, thank you.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yeah, I think this is also like the idea that he's picking these places that are rural that are far away and that like Like there is this kind not not completely rural I think these probably like one of the more out of Out of the main because there are few that that one house that he that their underwear chose or two is kind of in the suburban neighborhood but it's not like a bunch of houses on top of each other also and
00:18:00
Speaker
Every time we see someone's house, like she lives in that spooky ass cabin in the middle of nowhere. Like why do you live there? It's houses that look really good on a wide shop basically. Yeah, exactly. So someone could hide in the general area. But I think there's something to that because they're like isolated farms, isolated houses.
00:18:20
Speaker
Even the suburban places like when they're like that first killer in the first case in the beginning, when her partner gets killed, like it is a more suburban area, but it still feels this feels like a very isolated world. Like it just feels like, like we're really only seeing the main characters that are investigating this and then dead people and, you know, long legs himself. So it's almost like this place in Washington or Oregon. I can't remember Oregon, Oregon. Yeah, or yeah.
00:18:48
Speaker
That's kind of what Oregon is like, unless you live in a city. Okay. Yeah, I've never been before. I only know because I had to look up multiple times like, what decade is this? What location? I didn't like it that much. That's a little harsh. I didn't love it. I was kind of in the middle the first time I saw it, but then the second time when I knew what to expect, my appreciation really grew than when we talked about it and really got to pick it apart.
00:19:17
Speaker
for like an hour and a half i was just like okay like i think i'm ready to like really really like give this movie the props it deserves um but i forgot what my fucking point was of all that but i like it now i think the great part about this movie is it inspires greater discussion yeah i think that that's what
00:19:41
Speaker
these kinds of things. And I really, really don't like it when people dismiss movies offhand, although I have done that, too. But it's like a little bit different when it comes to something like this, because there's seriously so much thought and meticulousness that's happening in every part of this movie that you can see. Like, even if you don't think it's scary, you can kind of you should appreciate like every step that went into it. Right. You can take any one scene
00:20:11
Speaker
You can take like any one scene and kind of just like hone in of like what there's so much intentionality behind everything we're seeing and hearing, what the characters are doing, how everyone delivers their lines. And yeah, I already before when we talked about this, I already like made the comparison to
00:20:30
Speaker
Kyoshi Kurosawa's a cure but like I also want to invite I want to rewatch that and his other movies like like pulse and stuff because like I think it invokes a similar feeling like I mentioned like how everything feels isolated, but it just feels like Overall in what world of long legs and in those those movies I mentioned that it's just like an uncaring word like it's a world where no one cares like people are dying people are in pulse and stuff all these like a wave of suicides are happening and it's like does it
00:20:59
Speaker
Anyone besides the main characters care about this? It's like, it's like, it's like a void, a world devoid of like, humanity of like, you know, like every everything so detached. And that's what I really like about this movie. I kind of feel like this movie is the level of intensity that is in this movie is felt by the main characters and the main characters only.
Emotional Vulnerability of Protagonist
00:21:24
Speaker
It's like if you leave this small world, like no, like the people around this world will not feel what's going on because they are not in it. And I just feel like that's very intentional because I feel like if you are going to be someone and I also feel like all the satanic all the religion stuff is supposed to be kind of
00:21:50
Speaker
um like it's not really happening but they think it's happening because they have either bought into it or they like have some kind of mental health issue and I also feel like Maika Monroe because she is in the FBI and she she is she hunts these kind of people this is the kind of intensity she feels as someone who does this every day on a daily basis
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, it really makes her performance stand out of like the juxtaposition of like, yeah, this is like a cold and caring word, but she's feeling everything. Like I love the choice to have her be like because like you could do the steely like FBI agent who's like, you know, emotionally closed off and then maybe behind closed doors, you maybe have a moment where they have to like pull themselves out. No, but the whole movie, she's kind of barely holding it together on her face. And I love that because like this would be fucking hard. Like this is horrifying.
00:22:44
Speaker
Scary shit. She absolutely and I think that's why Blair Underwood is so important is because he is Like kind of the only quote unquote normal person. Yeah
00:22:55
Speaker
until the very end. Sorry, go ahead. No, it's cool. I wanted to talk about Maika Monroe a little bit, just kind of to piggyback off of what you guys were saying. I love how she allows her character to be so vulnerable on a scene-to-scene basis, even with really mundane things. Like, well, now you get to say hi to my family. And she's like, do I have to? And even when she's sitting there with the daughter, she has this look of like,
00:23:24
Speaker
i can't wait for this to be over and it's like it i don't know yet just every like level of vulnerability yeah or like even like awkwardness she just i don't know she felt like a very like a real like person and especially given like how intense the circumstances like get at a certain point it's like
00:23:46
Speaker
I still believed her as like an actual person in this real world and how they like would probably let their Vulnerability show like throughout this entire process Especially after like when she meets the fish she just witnessed like her first partner gets shot in the head like when she goes when she goes into that house with the plant like like Yeah, she you you see on her
Chilling Realization of Evil
00:24:09
Speaker
faces. She's like breathing heavily because it's fucking scary
00:24:11
Speaker
She just saw a guy get murdered like and it's and yeah it right off the bat We're meeting her after like what would for most people would be the most intense situation of their life and it gets worse Yeah Yeah, she sees her that first partner get killed she sees long legs kill himself she sees the the Asian FBI agent in the car get killed which is of course the poster and
00:24:41
Speaker
It's like and then the Blair Underwood and his wife thing where you just hear it and it's awful It's it's just like truly like a nor how do you and I think that's why the ending is so key is cuz she's holding on to like literally all this death that has happened around her and
00:25:00
Speaker
I think the most upsetting moment of the movie for me isn't even like one of those just intense murders. I talk about this on our main episode, but during the moment where
00:25:15
Speaker
Lee's mom is you you're basically hearing her voiceover after Lee passes out and There's like a shot of her holding Lee in bed and she's kind of like looking over her shoulder Like and she looks terrified and it's like after she's just explained everything she's witnessed I think it's after we get a shot of like a shadowy Baphomet behind Lee as a child and I'm just like that
00:25:39
Speaker
Made me fucking terrified just I couldn't even like fathom like this woman has seen like evil like just had its full form and it's That that's what she's living and oh man. It just really works Alicia because there's multiple performances in this movie where you could be like Oh, this is just like my favorite performance of the year but like she's so good as the mother and then like knowing that
00:26:04
Speaker
what we know from the end, the context of like the earlier, well, multiple times she brings up to leave like, one, have you said your prayers? But then when she visits her at a house, she was like, yeah, prayers never did a fucking thing or something like that, which is like such a
00:26:20
Speaker
like, ugh, like a gut punch thinking about, cause like, you have to imagine, like, she seems like she was a woman of faith, like, before all this happened, but, and you can imagine that, like, she had, you know, all the things she's had to do, she probably was praying to God a lot, of like, please make this stop, like, can you save us? Like, this is like, I don't want to have to do this, and see this, and all she's seeing is Satan, you know, she's seeing evil in front of her, and it's like, okay, I guess, where's God? Like, you know, I was, he's not picking up.
00:26:50
Speaker
But there's also, like, she could... I don't want to be like, she could have just left. But like, really, she's like, as long as he's gonna follow her in his, like, old 70s Kanye act, like, that's actually one of those people. Yeah, the devil. Well, because she has a contract with the devil, the devil himself in this whole thing, though. Right, because I think if she reneges on the deal, then they're all just gonna be fucked in hell.
00:27:17
Speaker
You know yeah, she says they'll be like tortured and how she says other words besides tortured, but it's like did or something you'll be twisting and like squirming and how they put you on the twisting machine where they just kind of like yeah, how's pretty twisted Yeah
00:27:36
Speaker
But I just think the whole part where Mike in a row finds out her mom is a part of it. It's like just so truly awful. And then the serious thing to me really was when she woke up in his lair and went up the stairs and realized it was in her own house and he had been there the whole time. He was literally under her feet the whole time. Evil had been inside her home. Yeah.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah, that I think is the scariest scene when when you come to that realization. Going back to the end, I'd read something after seeing it with Osgood Perkins, where he like was comparing it to the end of seven of how spoilers for a 30 year old movie for seven. But like at the end, when he shoots John Doe and becomes wrath, like Osgood was kind of alluding to that this almost
00:28:29
Speaker
Like this is exactly what the devil wanted.
Devil's Manipulation and Tragedy
00:28:31
Speaker
The devil wanted Lee to shoot her mom. Like that that was like almost like, like, yeah, yeah, sure. All the other family murder was nice, but this was like the full actual, like, this is what gets them off is like making like a daughter kill her mother of like, and it's yeah. I mean, cause it's like,
00:28:53
Speaker
How do you feel? How do you feel? There is no good ending for someone who participated in evil for that long. It's kind of like the idea. It's like you participated in this for so long, you cannot get off scot-free. You'll end up dying by the hand of your daughter. There's no other way it really could have ended for her.
00:29:16
Speaker
How do you guys feel about that being like Osgood Perkins, like justification for that ending? Oh, that the devil. This was all to arrive at that end point, like that that or yeah, like, because he said something about what's it called?
00:29:37
Speaker
kind of a I forgot like sorry I'd like completely spaced for a second but he said something I don't want to like sorry if I'm like repeating what you said but something about how it was all to
00:29:54
Speaker
just like how sick and twisted it would be for Micah Monro to like have to shoot her mom and that being like ultimately a part of the devil's plan yeah sorry I like completely like brain farted this whole fucking thing but uh well that could also be a means to the end like getting her to the point where she kills her mother could then be like because
00:30:13
Speaker
It leaves on this ambiguous note of, like, we don't know what Lee's gonna do. I mean, she's gonna, you know, take Blair Underwood's daughter and hopefully get out of there. But then, is this all a method for the devil to make Lee vulnerable to, like, being approached? And, you know, like, she's the lowest that she's ever gonna get. She's, like, had to kill her own mother. You know, like, is then she then more able to be corrupted then? Because you've already done, like, you know, this horrible thing. So, like,
00:30:41
Speaker
Why not do more things for Satan? And I think that's kind of like why Longlegs kills himself is because the plan, he knows the plan is going to come to the end that it's going to come to because all the pieces were set. It's like chess. Yeah, it is very seven because he knew that he was just waiting there for the cops to come. He wasn't running. Yeah, exactly.
00:31:07
Speaker
What did he have in those briefcases? Were they just like more notes and letters and like the ciphers? Yeah, they're letters, yeah. The briefcases that he was at the bus stop with? Mm-hmm. Okay, so one was a guitar case. He had letters in that one, too. Oh, right, right. Okay. I think they said there was nothing in them. It was just letters and...
00:31:31
Speaker
notes and stuff like that written in the language. More of a more pathetic zodiac behavior because like was the devil telling him to write those little letters? I don't think so. I think that was just for him. He was just, you know, he wanted to be noticed because there's no, nothing like the, well,
00:31:48
Speaker
Or maybe he had to to make the investigate because there is nothing to link the murders without something. But I don't think he had to write cute nursery rhyme letters like he maybe could have just left something to like, like he just he leaves a strand of hair or something and they could tie it to that. He didn't have to be all cute and, you know, attention seeking with it. And so did you guys did you like the beginning part where he
00:32:15
Speaker
So I kind of like that they deconstruct the idea of him actually having long legs, because that was kind of like the idea in the marketing, right? Like maybe he was some kind of beast or something like that. That was what it kind of played into. And like the first scene of her on the farm and him, when he's talking to her, there's like, he's cut off. So when
00:32:39
Speaker
She said something and he like falls down. It kind of looks like, oh, maybe he actually has long legs. If to her, he looks giant, you know, like from a child's P.O.P. Yeah, he would be this imposing thing of looking down on her. I really I.
00:32:56
Speaker
I was gonna say I really I've seen people like kind of have a little bit of a harsh reaction to like the title a little bit but um I really kind of appreciated that because I'm I don't know there's probably like plenty of people who have like an older family member an older person in their life who they're they just have a specific nickname for like just whatever reason like not my uncle we call him bud I don't know why there's nothing in his name
00:33:25
Speaker
to for him to be called that but that's just growing up we all called him that so like long legs having this like childhood like thing to it and like the dude's a creep so of course he would take something like that into adulthood and make it his serial killer personality or whatever but i really enjoyed that and just the cut as he's like starting to bring himself down into like frame
00:33:48
Speaker
um yeah
Nickname and Serial Killer Persona
00:33:49
Speaker
i thought that was all really well done it just really set you up for it and it kind of set you up like another piece of the mythology and then you kind of break it down as you go into it and you see him in real life and realize no he's there's nothing about him he's it's just like this uh name that's been given to him or he gave himself to create more of this mythology around himself
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of adds to how much of like a just kind of a loser he is in that regard. He's like, yeah, he's like helping, like really propping himself up. It's like you had to give yourself a name to just kind of like the movie initially is kind of selling that propaganda before deconstructing it and like removing the mask of showing how sad and pathetic he is. But then in contrast to like it makes him initially looming and large. But then Lee, even when she's an adult,
00:34:42
Speaker
she looks so when we first see her in that car, after the cuts of present day, like she looks so small, she looks like a child kind of like the way it frames her, which is like, yeah, the way this would be used, uses framing and aspect ratios. And Nick, I loved when you said on your podcast, like, when you see the murders, it's through the doll size. And that's something I did not even think of. Like, it's so true. That is
00:35:09
Speaker
like I didn't even think of that but it's absolutely another way another layer of this movie and how if you like if a director is determined enough to use these subtle tricks to build build the story they can be so um
00:35:30
Speaker
distinct and works so well in something like this. And they don't have to be flashy, like there's not really a ton of flashy stuff in this movie. Right, like he's not doing any, not that I would be a poet, like sometimes I am cool with Stylist or just for Stylist's sake, but he's not doing like the four three ratio for the flashbacks just because like there's an intentionality
00:35:50
Speaker
behind it and think he's trying to communicate and like yeah the doll POV but then I think we also said like some of those are probably the mom's POV too like when we see the mother crawling towards her before she gets axed like she's probably just sitting there watching that like which is horrifying
00:36:07
Speaker
I also see people, like, calling her a nun online.
Plot Complexities and Misunderstandings
00:36:11
Speaker
I don't think she's a nun. She's a nurse. She's dressed in, like, kind of religious nuns. She's dressed in a habit, yeah. I think that's just supposed to, like, sell the church thing that they're, like, going for. Right. Yeah. I think people, like, I see a lot of people just completely missing what's happening in this movie. It's, like,
00:36:31
Speaker
I'm not engaging in the arguments or conversation, but I almost want to be like, guys, like you kind of got it like a little wrong. Yeah. Not to call it any other specific podcast. We both listened to Nick. I read, I've watched everything. They're like, what were the doll orbs from? That's never explained. I'm like, what? I know what that is. There's a very specific explanation for that.
00:36:53
Speaker
I did need to watch it twice to really pick up on all of it, but it is like in the movie. It gives you everything. We didn't need to read anything extra to like pick up on what's happening. So it's a very well made movie, I'd say. I need to see it again. I can't wait. I want to see it. I think I don't want to compare and contrast, but versus watching Maxine and this and like the
00:37:21
Speaker
And I like how Osgood Perkins called it out entirely. I am not like, I don't want to compare and contrast, but there is just like so much, like you just see the thought process in these two movies and how they are so distinctly different. Yet they're trying to pay homage to things and how one is more successful than the other. And you kind of see maybe why one is more successful than the other or perhaps
00:37:50
Speaker
You know, maybe one is maybe they're both great. I mean, I'm a long. Yeah, I know. I agree. Long legs is the more successful one. I like Maxine more than Doug. But yeah, long legs, I would say, is more successful. Like that's accurate. I think Maxine is like half a good movie or maybe three quarters. That's right. Yeah, it's really that last quarter that tanks it a lot. Yes.
00:38:17
Speaker
It is not quite as thought out as the other two movies or the rest of the movie. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we don't have to relitigate it. See, I see Nick's heartbreak. No, no, I've accepted. I listen to the episode and I'm like, OK.
00:38:37
Speaker
It was just a gut punch because I thought Doug liked it like a lot more than we're recording. There were parts I definitely enjoyed. Doug's like, well, the first thing you're like, yeah, this is a sloppy script. And I was like, oh, a dagger to the heart, man. I think Maxine is like just more poppy and like I could watch that easily also is the thing. Oh, it's very watchable. It's not like move again.
00:39:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's not. Yeah, I mean, I mean, even watch rewatch the whole trilogy one day. It's not like I'm going to skip Maxine because like it's very why it doesn't it's not doesn't drag or anything like I can it's I can easily rewatch that one day.
00:39:21
Speaker
Well, for me, Long Legs is like probably like 16 above Maxine on my like letterbox for the year. So I at least acknowledge Long Legs is a way better movie than Maxine. I just, Maxine worked for me. I don't know. Lexi, have you seen? I get it. Have you seen the horror movie Oddity that just came out?
00:39:44
Speaker
No, but I had first heard of it last week when I saw the trailer before Long Legs and it really creeped me, creeped me, creeped me out. It's very creepy. I need to see it though. You should see it.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, hard to recommend for that. There's a lot of great horror this year. And we're only like, I mean, July is barely over. Like, yeah, we still got more to go. Like even next month, we got trap alien. Yeah. There's other ones I'm blanking on, right? Oh, Nosferatu at the end of the year.
00:40:19
Speaker
Cuckoo yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm You just tell me Dan Stevens is gonna play a freak in something. I'm like, okay, when when should I be there, you know? Yeah, he's like part of my Abigail was like half of my Abigail if you take out Abigail that movie drops like a More than a star like maybe even a star and a half like it like you lose a lot without him Just how much fun he's having yeah
00:40:48
Speaker
Yeah, he's having so much fun playing the dirty cop. And I'm like, yeah, go for it. Play the dirty cop. So good. My biggest issue is Abigail, they ruined it in the marketing and they just shouldn't. That's that's the the biggest flaw. So some people like how well you're not going to get people to see that if you don't say it's a vampire belt. I'm like bullshit. Like you can
00:41:08
Speaker
Longlegs gives you so much of the marketing was giving you nothing and people came out to see this and then also I think a better reference point would be I mean I guess this is a different era things were marketed differently back then but the original Omen movie wasn't like this is about the Antichrist it was just about this kid's weird. What's up with this kid? Come see the movie and find out.
00:41:29
Speaker
how did something more in the vein of abigail how did they market dusk till dawn from dusk till dawn because wasn't that that's a good idea i don't remember yeah exactly i remember because i only saw it on tv and was surprised by the genre turn in it i think they kept it hidden
00:41:47
Speaker
Which was good. Yeah, cuz like you could definitely market Abigail from the crime kidnapping angle of like, okay These guys kidnapped this girl you could even be like, oh who's her father? They kidnapped the wrong girl, you know And do you think it's just like a crime thing gone bad, you know And then you don't even know there's like ominous like, oh no There's somebody after us or something like that right because they're afraid that they have like a mob bosses daughter or something and you don't even know the Dracula vampire angle. Yeah
00:42:17
Speaker
I think, uh, other movies definitely do successfully hide, um, like, hidden premises in the mar- like Bone Tomahawk, I think, hides, uh, their- I don't want to spoil it if you haven't seen it, but- I mean, I think I- I have not seen it. Yeah, well, it's a Western for most of it, and then it becomes something else. Yeah, because the description-
00:42:37
Speaker
And the poster don't, like, let you know anything besides Kurt Russell Wester. Once you hit play, then you kinda... I mean, the name Bone Tomahawk does sound like an exploitation film, though. It sounds like, oh, this is gonna be fucking hardcore. And they call it Bone Tomahawk.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah. It's better than the other, you know, Green Inferno or whatever. That's a bad title. I haven't seen that. Is that, uh, what's, what's his name? Who did that's, uh, like a cannibal Holocaust. Yeah. It's, I only have seen him, but there's like zero meaning like, Oh, really? Yeah. No, maybe, maybe border lands first. Eli Roth.
00:43:20
Speaker
Wait, you haven't seen, didn't you do Hostel? You haven't seen Hostel? No. Um, didn't you do like- Cabin Fever, didn't see that. Um, Thanksgiving, I know some people like that. I mean, I like the fake- So I will champion Cabin Fever. Okay. I would say watch Cabin Fever. I think that that's probably one of his better best movies. I know some people like that one.
00:43:43
Speaker
And I just like, I don't know if it's like straight up zombies, but I know there's some kind of viral aspect to it, and I just like horror movies. Yeah, don't read anything about it, just watch it. There's some really like creep out movies. Yeah, I just love horror where something is transmitted, like whether it's a virus, it could just be evil being transmitted. Oh, have you seen When Evil Lurks? That's a really good demonic infestation thing. No, I've heard of it, but I haven't. If you have shutter, definitely check it out.
00:44:13
Speaker
Yes, I've heard that's a good one. Yeah, I would I would say it would actually make a good double feature with the long legs Probably when evil lurks. Yeah, I think there's a lot of thematic crossover just kind of about you know when evils out you just No one will help you that director he's done another I think he's Argentinian and he seems to be
00:44:37
Speaker
consciously commenting on like kind of social structures of like, you know, people go to the police or maybe other experts for help in the in these supernatural scenarios. And it's like, none of these people are going to help you. No one is going to help you. You're just like on your own. Like, yeah, and that's especially, I mean, that's scary in the real world without any supernatural things going on. But it's on top of that. And you're like, Oh, fuck.
Comparison with Other Horror Films
00:45:02
Speaker
A potential good double feature for long legs, but this might actually pair better with like seven or Zodiac would be I saw the devil. I'm waiting for Doug to see it so we can talk about it. But Lexi, if you haven't seen it, I'd highly recommend it if you like long legs. Yeah, I have it on my to watch list.
00:45:21
Speaker
It's a pretty intense, borderline depraved. In terms of Korean revenge things that are messed up, I would say even I still have a half hour to finish it, but I'd say darker than Oldboy, maybe, in terms of what you're seeing depicted and how depraved it is. And it's got the lead from Oldboy in it, too.
00:45:48
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, that is him. What the fuck? How did I not put that together till just now? Damn. Yeah. It says that, uh, at least for me on the poster, uh, for whatever it's on like voodoo or Apple TV, it says featuring blah, blah, blah from old boy. And I was like, I'm just going to let that reveal sit because I don't recognize the name. And then I was like, okay, there's Mr. Old Boy. This is the boy. Yeah. Mr. Old Boy.
00:46:19
Speaker
Well, Lexi, I know it's after your cutoff time. So I mean, we got lots of good long legs discussion in and that was the main goal. So I'll let you go. But thank you so much for coming on and talking with us. Oh, yeah. Thanks for joining us. Well, thank you, guys. This was a great discussion. I'm glad I finally got to talk about this a little bit and some more great horror to look forward to in the rest of the year. It's going to be
00:46:50
Speaker
I feel like it's the most alive of all the genre. It's like consistently like overperforms and yeah, it
00:46:59
Speaker
And you can tell original non IP stories or even when it is a franchise or IP thing, you still get more freedom to kind of do whatever. Because like first omen is a prequel to the omen. But like spoilers for that movie, they fuck with like the continuity and the lower a lot, which is like it's like do whatever you do. Tell a cool story. And like, who cares? It's the genre. I might say it's for Smile 2. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Oh, Smile 2 looks good. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
00:47:28
Speaker
Horror is the genre that I mind like reboots and stuff from like the least I'm just like yeah, let people do if someone wants to do like their own Halloween like 13 Hellraiser 16 or something. It's like have at it Like any themes or characters on like you could just like there's so much room to create your own thing for it. I
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah. If you, uh, you know, if, um, you wanted to do some smile to like talk with us, I, I'm pretty excited for that one. But, uh, yeah, since we're just starting to do the guest thing. Um, yeah, we love it back on for whatever we can move. We can send you a schedule. That would be awesome. Yeah. But yeah, smile to smile to sound good. I am down to talk about smiles. I don't watch smile one first though. I didn't, I didn't catch it when it came out. You got to see it. It's pretty good.
00:48:24
Speaker
I know. Yeah, I got it. I love a pop star with a horror aspect. I'm ready. Trap two weeks is coming. Trap. Yeah. And then Mother Mary, the David Lowery, who was just like a psychological thriller kind of movie, which I'm excited about next next year, I think. Oh, I didn't even know about that one. I love David Lowery.
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah, it has Anne Hathaway, Michaela Cole, Hunter Schafer, and someone else. I mean, I heard David Lawry and Anne Hathaway, Hunter Schafer from there. Exactly. Green Knight. If you ever talk about that, I'll talk about Green Knight too. I'll talk about all of them with you. Is this his follow up to the Green Knight or did he do a Disney one? No, didn't he do that Disney plus Peter Pan? Yeah, did Peter Pan. Yeah.
00:49:09
Speaker
peter and wendy or something like that i heard people say that was like okay i just i didn't care about peter pan so i didn't watch it i don't know it's just like why are we still doing this can we not the thing is like his
00:49:22
Speaker
Another thing, I'm just going to say this, not wrap up. The Dragon, what was it? Peach Dragon. Peach Dragon. Peach Dragon is so good if you've not seen it. I need to see it. I don't know if I could rewind. I saw it with my family after I put my dog down and I'm like, I can't watch this movie ever again. I was like, it's just too sad now for me to watch it.
00:49:49
Speaker
So sad, but he's so well done. Because the dragon's like a dog the whole time too. I'm like, oh, this is a bad choice. Exactly. Yeah. Oh. And it's like, it was well done CGI. Like, it doesn't look like they do it in the correct way. So it's like hidden correctly. And who is it? Is Clint Eastwood in that? Or like, I can't remember. I think it's Clint Eastwood. Um, it's been a little while. I'd have to look it up.
00:50:14
Speaker
Robert Redford. That's who it is. So wonderful. Yeah, it's it. Watch it. Okay. David Lowry has a high hit rate for me. So yeah, I've liked all the ones I've seen so far. If he's got to do these Disney remakes to like get these to get Green Knights made, then I mean, that's the kind of
00:50:36
Speaker
Fostian bargain that I am okay with yeah, that's a good one for them one for me deal. I'll accept from a film Thank you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. Yeah, enjoy your vacation, but yeah We'll see you soon or whenever smile 2 comes out. We'll have some more horror All right, sounds good. Bye. See you later