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Episode 153- The Acolyte Recap Episode 6
84 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to The GALactic Podcast! In this episode, Andrea and Lauren chat about The Acolyte Episode Six! Did Sol know it was Mae the entire time? Qimir tempting Osha to the darkside? Are we shipping Osha and Qimir? They talk these topics and much more Go listen and enjoy!
Reminder to rate and review where available! And as always, May that force be with you!
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Transcript
Introduction and Catching Up
00:00:09
Speaker
hello everyone and welcome to the glad to podcast I'm Lauren Romo with me as always is my cousin and fellow nerd Andrea Gutierrez yo yo yo alright sons what's going on cuz oh man just chillin you know I haven't talked to you live all week I have no idea what your thoughts are Yeah, we I was away. So I watched it. We'll talk about it. I watched it in a very weird way. ah But yes, we did. Usually we text each other these like a few things, quick thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, we were radio silent, so this should be an interesting, interesting episode. Because we really don't know how each other feel about what has
Focus on Star Wars
00:00:54
Speaker
occurred. But a lot to talk about obviously with the acolyte, episode six. So let's just get down to rest task. um If this is your first time listening to us, welcome. We are Star Wars podcasts that discuss anything and everything within that galaxy far, far away. Each episode, we dive into one or two two one or two topics and have a general discussion on them. Topics could be movies, TV series, books, comics, a specific character, you name it, and we talk about it. All right, Ansh.
00:01:22
Speaker
Getting close to the end, episode six. Ooh, I mean, wow. ah It's taking some twists and turns. I don't think I have not anticipated. You have been kind of on some of this bandwagon though for a while with the switching of May and OSHA, like maybe OSHA is the one that the stranger wants or is changing and all that. So this episode was, i Think we even talked about it last week didn't think it was gonna be any action which it wasn't yeah of heavy dialogue ah heavy dialogue but a lot of exposition and maybe just again setting up the The penultimate and then the then the finale right? Because we still have a lot again. There's a lot
Character Dynamics: Khaimir, Jedi, and Sith
00:02:10
Speaker
more questions that come up now I have more questions now I
00:02:18
Speaker
We do than ever before. Yeah, I am. I have no idea. I'm just like, OK, I guess the show's going to end and it's going to make sense somehow. I don't know where you're going to go with it. ah But let's go again. Yeah, let's go overall thoughts and high, low struggles or overall just feelings. Talk to me what you got on this episode.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I didn't anticipate it was going to be like another action packed episode. So I was ready to just kind of like consume what I was about to learn. And also knowing that episode seven is supposed to be the Brenda flashback or possibly the Brenda flashback. We talked about that. Yeah, that's what we're thinking. So i I kind of knew this was going to be like a transition type episode. But um man, Number one, when it ended, I was like, wow, I have so many more questions. And I was right left with my mind just like in high speed thinking like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this. Oh, I'm wondering about this stuff like that. And and we'll get into all of that later.
00:03:34
Speaker
um I was a little like also like ah like I'm not into the shipping thing of ah OSHA and Khmer, right? Like that whole scene was cool, right? I mean it was let's Get some more of that in Star Wars like it's seductive. It's it's fun It's great to see the audience like react off of it but It also sometimes I think can be distracting of what the actual story is, right? The story isn't about them hooking up. The story is about um deceit
Fan Reactions and Romance in Storytelling
00:04:11
Speaker
and desire and manipulation. manipulation um I have a whole essay written out about how Khmer is a first class narcissist and he has planted all the seeds and he is in the works of that.
00:04:28
Speaker
So a true gas lighter. Let's be honest about that. Holy crap. I mean, yes. So the whole like, oh my gosh, so hot. Star Wars horny. Like that's funny. I think it's funny. It's fun. It is funny. Like it's different, right? But I don't, like I said, I don't want it to take away from the story. Like I, um, I kind of feel like that happened with the last Jedi in Reylo. Right. And now like all of a sudden everyone's comparing Kamir and Osha to Rey and Ben are kind of hot. Right. So, um,
00:05:03
Speaker
It is fun, right? it It brings another level to Star Wars, which is cool, but, um, I just don't want it to be distracting with the true plot or story or lesson that is being shown in this show. Yeah, it's yeah. No, I, I, I 100% agree with everything you're saying for sure. I like. that they're going with that angle, I don't mind it, but I don't want it to overwhelm what the bigger issue is, and the bigger story of, again, what happened on Brendoc, right?
Episode Six Insights and Creative Contributions
00:05:45
Speaker
Who is Khaimir slash a stranger, right? Where's, because we got it, and we got information, we'll talk about it. um You know, we got a little bit more about his background.
00:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, I again, I liked it and again we talked about how last week we didn't think it was gonna be High-action or anything like that just because of what we got to previous episode was just straight action. It was really good, too um But real quick, I just want to say so this is episode six this was teach slash corrupt so we're back to the the two the two-word Had ah how we were the titles for the episodes ah director was Hennelly Culpepper
00:06:33
Speaker
writers were headley Leslie Hedlund and then Jocelyn Bio, I think is how you pronounce that. So again, new names, we always talk about that. We like the new names, new fresh takes on Star Wars. And this kind of felt very, again, similar but different, like you're saying, like this is has vibes of Last Jedi with with respect to the whole OSHA and chimer of it all right so Again over the music. I really like the music in this episode though that violin Banging yeah, I love the music music was really really good again the sets are great right um I Again, I like the
00:07:22
Speaker
We're on an island. Again, it gave Last Jedi vibes, right? Because you thought maybe Octo. But right, it's an unknown planet. um I do believe it. I do believe it's Baldemnic. I think people have been talking about that. Am I correct,
Performance Praise: Amanda Les, Manny Jacinto, and Lee Jeong-jae
00:07:39
Speaker
Andrew? Is it e is it an EU thing? Yeah, it was in the first chapter of Darth Plagueis. It's where Plagueis and Tenebris went, and they went to go mine Cortosis. It had a Cortosis vein, just like you see later in the episode. so and It was an ocean planet like ah with islands all throughout it. so
00:08:04
Speaker
If it looks like a dog and is a dog, it's probably ball damn neck. Right. And again, maybe they don't want to come out and say that because they don't want to like. Specifically, you know, despite reasons, they might not want to canonize it, honestly. Right. Right. Right. And then they don't want to like, then get maybe people's hopes up. Right. but So again, I get I'm fine with just unknown planning. and Like, all right, that's fine. At least you told me it's right. I'm not like. ah We're not searching Wikipedia to find out where they could be right like So that's good. Um, okay. Yeah, I get I like the acting is good. I mean, I think I really like Amanda less performance again playing it's really interesting in her playing
00:08:54
Speaker
May but trying to be OSHA yeah right with soul. It's really good. Yeah, I really like I Like that like I like her act like correct their acting is great Again, Manny Jacinto is fantastic as chimer stranger. I love them Lee Jeong-jae is Seoul. I don't think he's his performance is being talked about enough in this episode. Just those so scenes of so of no dialogue and just the expressions on his face. And you can really see like the pain he's going through. And um I just think it's it's excellent. Yeah, Lee Jeong-jae is doing an outstanding job as Master Seoul. It's fantastic.
00:09:36
Speaker
So yeah, again, and we're more information, again, these little sprinkles, but then, like you said, Angie, I came away with more more questions, little bit of answers, but still way more questions. And again, I think this is what the show is supposed to be doing. this is it's been It's been pretty consistent in that respect, has it not? like It's giving us answers, but then it's adding more questions to those answers. Yeah, and it's it's being really straightforward as well too. yeah But then like also making you question your own like decisions on what's going to happen, which is which is great. Right, right, right. it's it's Again, it's making you think, but it's not right <unk>s not really trying to hide a lot of things. I think we've been talking about that for weeks too, where it's you know they weren't trying to hide that OSHA, you know that
00:10:33
Speaker
a man to this character were twins, right? They were not hiding that Manny Jacinto's character was the stranger. So like it's being straightforward in that respect. The only thing in consistently that they have been like obviously with not telling us straightforward yet is what happened on Brendan. Right. That's the only really big mystery, which is I think the premise of this whole show of what that event is, what happened and how that event changed everybody that we are, you know, ah that has that has been presented in this story, all the different characters.
00:11:15
Speaker
I think they brought in a whole new mystery with this episode concerning who was Khmer or who was the stranger. What is his age? Was he truly a Jedi? Did he have a master? Right. We're going to dive into that. Yeah.
00:11:41
Speaker
Questions with his character now that he's been revealed. Yeah, right again. They weren't hiding it They just we didn't get that reveal until last week. So um but yeah again overall I like I do like the show I I'm not struggling with
The Acolyte: Movie or Series?
00:11:57
Speaker
it. I'm just like, okay. I like the mystery, like again, I like this whole Brundak mystery of it all. um The action, like again, last week was great, this week, again, kind of figured that they were just gonna go slow slow pace, right? And just kind of really give us a little more information to chew on, which they did. So I don't have any, um i just I mean, i just I enjoy the show. Is it my favorite? Like, I mean, I know we got a couple more episodes to go.
00:12:29
Speaker
I mean, going beyond the halfway point now, and we're going into the penultimate and then the final. It's a good show. I don't know if it's my favorite yet. I wonder if when it's all said and done, and you I think you brought this up a while back, that this really could be a good binge. Yeah. you know I mean, I just watched episode four because I wanted to see a scene and then I just like left it on. And it is so good. And I was like, man, this show is actually really freaking good.
00:13:08
Speaker
um just because of performance and character, uh, introduction and, and it's so it, it actually is really, really good. So the rewatch will be very interesting, but episodes four and five, honestly, oh huge. so yeah the Some of the best Star Wars and I'm not gonna say this show is like my favorite right because it's the most recent but If you think about it, it's been it's been a long time since we've seen so much Jedi exposure and ah Dialogue and lore so to see so much of it is is really nice. I think yeah, no, this has really gotten deep into the
00:14:01
Speaker
The lore of, like you're saying, in the Jedi, the, the Sith or the dark side too. Right. We're getting a lot of more layers to those types of topics themes. Right. So it's, yeah, it's been really good in that respect. And I agree. I think the rewatch will be fun. Cause I think just add a whole, like kind of kind of just thinking back. from like episode one till now I'm like yeah it's a good like it's a good story like continuation and just like everything like it it's it flows good do you think it would have been a better movie that's a good question I don't I don't know if it would have been
00:14:48
Speaker
I don't know. That's a really good question. I think maybe on a binge, maybe I can give a better answer just because then maybe I can get that feel of a maybe how a movie would, you know, how it would have came out in a movie. um Right now, I don't mind the series because just you can dive into a little more. like they're doing with a little bit of lore, but again, yeah I know a lot of people are saying the episodes are so short, which is fine. I mean, again, that's, that's something that can be discussed. You know, I would, I wish that they were a little bit longer, but again, Star Wars has always been, you know, 30 to 40 minutes. These shows, right? We haven't, not very often do we get anything more than 40.
00:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think in the beginning some of the Mandalorian shows were longer, but Eventually, they got shortened up Right. It's it's it's not very it's it's not the norm for them to go like over 40 which is fine again. That's fine. That's That's nothing to uh besmirch them about but yeah, I oh, that's a good question I don't know if I would If it would be a better movie or not I feel like this I feel it's a good show I do I feel right now. I feel like it's a good series um Because you're setting up new characters, so
00:16:09
Speaker
You'd have to do, which they did, you have to do a lot of marketing if this was to be a movie, right? To get people to want to come and see these new characters in a movie theater versus, oh, it's on streaming, I can watch it when I want to, right? Yeah, exactly, that's perfect. Yeah, what's your thoughts? Do you prefer a movie or do you think it, how are you feeling about that? Sometimes when the scenes are so choppy, I think um it would be better as a movie to be able to like lengthen the subplots that are going on. But then sometimes I feel like there's so much more information that we would need so that it wouldn't fit like a two hour, two and a half hour movie format.
Disney+ Episode Formats
00:16:51
Speaker
Um, because I mean, obviously we're already running into about like, what, like four hours in a show and we're still feeling like we're missing information. So, um, It's, it's interesting, but I think it's so, it's so weird. It just, the pacing is, is so weird. And I don't think it has anything to do with the show. I think, um, I was listening to four center, they're saying it must be like some sort of like Disney plus format that they like. Cause they do it with Marvel and they do it with Star Wars with these 30 minute, 22 minute episodes. Right. And with cliffhangers and.
00:17:32
Speaker
It's just like, it's interesting. It's not like, and then it's not like, it should be a bit, this should be a binging like series, right? Should've got released all at once, kind of like a- Maybe, maybe. So I don't know, but like, you know, night and day we're supposed, or day and night we're supposed to be one episode and then they got split into two. So obviously there's something from an outside source saying, hey, ah We gotta kind of um separate these, so make them shorter. Right. It could be um it could be something to that effect too, right? Where it's not so much Lucasfilm, but just how they're being told to release these like minutes wise and all that stuff.
00:18:22
Speaker
there's got Again, there's probably reasons and statistics and whatever right that they look at to to justify why the minutes are what they are, which is fine. Again, that's and that's nothing against Lucasfilm. That might not even be a Disney thing. Who knows? Who knows why? um But yeah, i I wouldn't mind it being longer, but again, that's a lot more content that they have to create. And do they have enough to make these episodes like an hour long, right? It was a story justifiably um long enough to where each episode like House of the Dragon or Game of Thrones, or whatever, where they are, you know, the hour at long length or whatever, right? Over 30 minutes.
00:19:20
Speaker
is justifiable. It could be that. I mean, it could be something like that too. Who knows? Who knows? Let's get into, well, before final thoughts, Anj. Anything before we dive into some of the stuff that happened during this episode? I'm ready to talk about the stuff. I feel like there was a lot of stuff, honestly. um I was watching it right before we got on and I have a lot of notes. All right, well, let's let's dive into
Character Relationships: May and Soul
00:19:50
Speaker
it. So we're going to let's do what we're going to do is let's break this up into kind of what we kind of usually do is
00:20:00
Speaker
with characters and kind of their scene. So let's let's start with, I say, with the May and Soul, because I found that very interesting. We'll get to the the Osha and Khaimir of it all, because I think that's a bigger portion of this of this episode, for sure. But I think to start with the Soul and May of it all, right? Again, some really good conversations like in, you brought it up earlier, Li Zhongzhe just amazing at not saying anything, but just showing emotion, showing frustration, uh, with what had occurred right in the last episode. So just let's talk about that. And so let's give me your thoughts and opinions, what you felt, what you picked up on out of those episodes, out of those scenes specifically with
00:20:57
Speaker
May being Osha, right? Thinking that she's getting away with it, but clearly, clearly not. Clearly soul knew the entire time. And then, uh, with her and soul and talk, talk to me about those, up um, those scenes and what, what kind of stood out and what, you know, what was what things, things that were said that you picked up on what you got. Yeah. Watching those scenes and then also seeing the reaction of people like online, like everybody's so, like set that a soul is like a bad guy, right? Or soul did something- I don't get that. Yeah. like he And I'm like, I'm sure he did something wrong and he wants to hide it, right? and But I also think like he is a caring, loving um Jedi that just wants like life to continue for for beings, right?
00:21:55
Speaker
so
00:21:57
Speaker
They put him in a lot of like strange situations where you have to like question like what is going on with him. So he's trying to reach back to the Jedi. ah The transmission is bad. Of course it is. All that stuff, right? No one knows. Did that bother you real quick that it was like, was that convenient or just like, yeah whatever, that's fine. It is convenient, but it's fine. I feel both ways, right? so Because let's be honest, he's not going to have have a clear transmission to say, hey, my team got murdered. And there was this this guy there that was said he might be a Sith, right? We just know that conversation can't happen just because of future events of some guy with a really tall head saying the Sith have been whatever for a thousand years. Bleh. So the Sith information, the dark side user information, that just can't be
00:22:56
Speaker
not general knowledge to back oncourse on Coruscant. So of course like the breakup of the transmission is all going to happen. Where I start to get like weird about it is when the transmission does finally you know connect and the communications are fixed and he turns his transponder off and he's like
Impact of Plot Devices: Broken Transmissions
00:23:16
Speaker
we gotta to go. They're coming and I can't be here. you know, there's a lot of just really strange things that happen with soul that just makes you feel uncomfortable. And I think it is very intentional. But my true like instinct on him is that he is a good Jedi. He is not a bad guy. He is not trying to
00:23:43
Speaker
And I think for a while he was trying to hide what happened, but I don't think he's going to anymore. And he says it himself, like in the episode, I need to face the high counsel, right? I need to tell them what happened. And he also talks about how he's been thinking about it for 16 years and what he would say to me if they ever cross paths again. Like he's he's pretty much ready to just give away like all of his secrets to be able to free himself ah of this pain and to be able to um move on as a light side user. So it it's just really interesting how that some people in the audience think he's a bad guy. Do you get those vibes? I don't. i
00:24:29
Speaker
I think like you're like you like you're saying, do I feel like so he did something maybe not Jedi air quotes? Yeah. I think that's what we're going to learn, right? I think not only him, but clearly the entire team that was there all did something bad, right? Whether it was a massacre, which I, again, I don't even want to, I don't think that's the case. but something happened to where they, I don't know if they broke Jedi rules or protocol maybe, right? Like something happened. Do I feel like he's some secret like Darth Lord? No, I don't. I don't think that and does it doesn't, it wouldn't add up to his character. That would just be a completely like random, uh,
00:25:25
Speaker
That would just be way out of left field and it just wouldn't fit the story. like it was just just That wouldn't work for me at all. But yeah, I think Sol is genuinely, I think a very sympathetic Jedi. And I think he's had, again, 16 years to think about what he would say to Mae if he ever, right? I mean, like you said, he said that to her. I've been thinking about this for 16 years if I ever got the chance, but now he does. right? He has this chance to tell her everything and he's going to tell her everything, right? And then I think that even caught May off guard when he was like, I'm going to go to the high council,
Soul's Internal Conflict and Confession
00:26:05
Speaker
right? Cause I feel like that, and that couldn't even go back to her lessons that she was learning from Kaimir, right? Like destroy the dream.
00:26:16
Speaker
Right if he She doesn't have to kill like she could kill him by Having him tell the story to the high council, right? Destroy that image of the Jedi and for that story to come out. That's how you kill the dream and That's again. That's a big theme of the show Right is killing that image of the Jedi that I think we all have had so Yeah, I don't get where people would think that he's some secret baddie. That's not the case for me. I just think he did he did something terrible that is not Jedi-like. But that makes sense. I mean would yeah i don't i don't i don't get where people are getting that. but
00:27:08
Speaker
I mean, that's how they feel, that's how they feel, you know? But I just don't i don't, I don't go there. I don't go there with him. Yeah, so he, I mean, his, like Lee Jong-J's performance and the scenes that we have of Soul in this episode um are just so great at displaying the pain that he is going through that he suppressed for like so long. And the fact that he can um come to terms with knowing that he needs to let go of it and that he needs to do the right thing shows what kind of upstanding Jedi he actually is. Like Jedi aren't perfect. They don't ever not make mistakes. So he is like the the example of that.
00:27:55
Speaker
and And we don't know the whole story yet, right? So we don't know the whole story. We don't know if they were ordered to go there, if they were ordered to get rid of the witches. We don't know any of that. And if he was just- We've talked about that, right? Right. If that he was just you know blissfully following orders like a stormtrooper, right? you know We don't know, but over time it it has caught up with him and he is ready to um confess what has happened to the High Council. Is it a little frustrating that it's because he's like in this predicament he wants to tell the High Council? I mean, yeah, but again, we don't know the whole story.
00:28:41
Speaker
But what I thought like was like really fascinating was like at the end when he was like talking to Mae and he was like, we have to go save Osha. right He is not about like, I need to get rid of Osha. I need to get rid of you. I need to hide this. I need to do that. He was like, we need to like preserve life. You're going to be saved. She's going to be saved. I'm going to be saved. We're all going to, this is what we have to do. So I'm really intrigued on like what we're going to learn next week because he's finally, after three episodes, ready to say what he's been promising he was going to say. And I think there was a lot of great
00:29:22
Speaker
Realization with May as well, too, when Soul says, you know, why didn't I sense that villain's true intentions and May talks about how um when you see something that you want, it it clouds your judgment. And she is starting to realize that she was probably not on the right end of everything, but she doesn't know how to get out of her mistakes, right? She's so used to just um latching on to, to whatever is in front of her and then continuing on. So yeah. mate When, when.
00:30:05
Speaker
A mandala plays May as OSHA. It is so fascinating. It's so good. it's Because you can sense the confusion going on in May. It is it is such a great performance because the audience literally can like just feel her confusion and her um unwillingness to like be her true self, right? It's almost like she almost prefers pretending to be OSHA because she doesn't even know who Mei is, you know, so um It's just a really good performance and
00:30:43
Speaker
i'm I'm like, I'm so ready to find out what happened. I don't know about you, but I'm like, this, this is a next thing I have to see. Like I i don't want to see anything else. I want to see what happened on Brenda. Yeah, no, I. Well said and all that because, yeah, Brandok is where we need to go. We assume just because based on who is directing that episode, the same director that directed the ah the previous one when we were on Brandok. So, again, assumptions can be made that that's where we're going to go. And that would make sense.
00:31:23
Speaker
based on how the scenes with May and Soul went and the ending of him basically saying, I'm going to tell you and then, you know, fade to black. So we will, I wonder if we're just going to go there and we're going to find out, or if we'll kind of go to Soul and then like, he's telling the story and then we go into a a flashback, you know? um I heard Alex say a really cool theory that with Osha putting on the helmet and it's like um the deprivation and then maybe if she goes in there and she supposedly takes like what's with her, right? Maybe she connects with Osha in that moment and May hears the story while, or Osha hears the story while Sol is telling it to May.
00:32:16
Speaker
I like that because we again they are connected right still don't know if it's really them or If it's an outside thing connected right cuz that's been that's been a discussion They write that you and I have had yeah, whether it's an outside source doing it like chimer or is it truly them it I've been on the I don't think it's truly them but I I don't know I it might I might be changing my tune on that That it might it might be them commute it might just be them communicating Then I think it is yeah, they just had to be in certain situations right to be able to do that But it's just again. The only thing that gives me pause is that May was surprised that OSHA was alive right it but maybe it's just oh
00:33:15
Speaker
Maybe it's just Osha connecting with May somehow? and I don't know, yeah. That has to get explained for me. Well, it was brought up in this episode that Kamir said he was bringing up ah Osha's strength in the Force, right? Somewhat implying that she is extremely powerful. Okay. So that was, we'll talk about, and we'll definitely gonna talk about those two for sure. Um, but yeah, with, me with the whole May, May and soul of it all, like I, you're 100% right.
May's Realization and Motives
00:33:52
Speaker
I think May is starting to realize that she is, I don't know about in the wrong, but her whole reason for wanting to do what she
00:34:06
Speaker
is doing or did was kind of all a sham, right? Based on probably what we're going to find out of what truly happened. Not that it's going to exonerate soul and the Jedi, but I think it's going to give more clarity obviously to Mae of who was like what truly happened, right? Because clearly, like in the previous episode, like she told, you know, Mae tells Osha, like you're, you've been brainwashed. Is that true? It could be, or is it obviously May that has been brainwashed by Kymer? We'll get into Kymer and OSHA because you can probably argue that it's it's that.
00:34:48
Speaker
you know yeah because i mean if if you know If you know Star Wars and you pull up past information, right the the Jedi aren't into manipulating people and and hiding what their lessons are. um who who does And I mean, you go back to when she says, they turned you against me. It's ah it's a direct um reference to Anakin saying it. And that's when he was corrupted by the Dark Side as well too. so right um
00:35:20
Speaker
I think. And then with this title having corruption in it, right? Right. So you're like start, you're, you're thinking like who is actually teaching, who is actually corrupting? Like you're, you're like stuck in the middle thinking like maybe the light side, maybe the Jedi are bad and and the Sith somewhat dude knows what he's talking about.
Jedi and Dark Side Teachings Influence
00:35:40
Speaker
Or maybe it's what we've always known is that the dark side of the force is, is the the weak way, the easy way to, to access um Power and the Jedi actually are the ones that teach it properly and utilize like strength and wisdom to be able to stay in the light side of the force. I am always gonna go with what I've always known about Jedi and Darkseid. I don't think this story is gonna flip the script on, I guess, Sith are good people now and we should all be like them. It's not that situation. no Yeah, I don't think so. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna come to that but
00:36:20
Speaker
It's gonna be interesting to find out what, again, what story he's gonna tell her and what truly happened, because I think we'll finally get that answer next week. And then the final episode will, I assume, be a confrontation of the four of them, of Sol and Kaimir and then Osho in May. We'll find out, right? That's just my guess. We'll see where that ends up. Yep. And then Venetra, we'll see where how she, well, boy, she ends up too. We'll get to her in a little bit too. But yeah, i again, to kind of wrap up the whole soul and Mae of it all. It is interesting that she, again, there was moments of Mae wanting to like attack him.
00:37:04
Speaker
But it's again, he is it's almost like he sensed that and then he would say, oh, I got to go do this. You take the wheel or can you go look at that? Right. Like in like he made her almost kind of forget what she was trying to accomplish and then make her go do something else. Right. It's like he was not toying, not toying with her. But like, I think he was definitely. He knew that was May, and he knew what, you know, I think he could obviously clearly sense that. And just, I mean, even that moment when he hugged her too, it was like he was, I mean, he was hugging, again, he was giving off the vibe that he was hugging Osha, but he knew that was May.
00:37:48
Speaker
Right so like that even putting that in that type of context like him knowing that was made him hugging her, right? He was talking to me, but as if he was talking to OSHA, right? Right, which is again that was I like that stuff. It was really really good their conversations were like you said that that the one that about the one that you brought up earlier when May was talking about, you know, about the dark side and clouding judgments and everything like that. Again, that was a big like realization. I think that she was having that he maybe he wanted, you know, was hoping to conjure up right by talking to her.
00:38:29
Speaker
Yeah, it goes back to sometimes when you're trying to console someone or help someone with an issue, what you say is also helping you through that ah as well too. So it was like a lesson that she was teaching herself. Right, right. And then that he was, and maybe and even something that he was teaching or trying to Get over himself too, right by again being able to talk to her Right that he has been thinking about for 16 years not knowing a that he would ever get the chance Thinking that he wouldn't really ever have the chance right and then he has that chance and now he can express what Truly happened and what like what you know why everything
00:39:17
Speaker
did what it you know why those events happened, because she clearly doesn't know.
Character Arcs and Confrontations
00:39:22
Speaker
Osha is getting one side. We don't really know if that's what she saw when we saw what in episode three, was that truly what happened? we you know We speculated that's just one point of view, right? That we'll get the true answer. Do you think that when it's all said and done, we are everybody's gonna be like, okay, I get it. This is what truly happened. That's a good question. I mean, I think we'll get, I think we'll get our, we'll get obviously the final answers. Will it be satisfying? That's another question. Not not not necessarily to the audience, but to these characters. Oh, right. i
00:40:07
Speaker
I would hope so, right? I would hope that this would just, again, not satisfy the audience, but satisfy the characters and satisfy their story arcs to be like, okay, that's why May did this. That's why OSHA did that. Right. That's why Kaimir is Kaimir. I, in all honesty, I don't even know if we'll get a lot of his background. Okay. We'll, we'll get there, but.
00:40:33
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I, I think so. I think it will, I think it will wrap up in a satisfying way for audience and the characters. Right. Cause I think OSHA and may well, I think finally learn what truly happened and how they deal with that information. That's I guess maybe up to them. Right. Cause again, I think it's going to change May's view of of What happened and maybe not justify what she thought she was doing right like getting revenge and all that on the Jedi that took away her family She might get closure with that, but oh sure I don't with OSHA Will she get you know will this? clarify and give her closure of with her sister right thinking that her sister was a
00:41:24
Speaker
problem, right? Because that's that's the whole thing with Osha is that she feels May was the cause of it all, right? May caused it all. She's the one that took away their family, right? So it's, will that, satisfy you know, will the end satisfy those two viewpoints and bring them together? Probably. I would think so. I would think so. I still believe that they will work together. I think you and I have talked about that for weeks too, where
00:41:55
Speaker
Osha May will come together and maybe defeat Kaimir, right? I think that makes sense because again, I don't think... I don't... Well, I want to talk that i want to talk about ah what I'm thinking with when we talk about Kaimir and Osha. But yeah, there I think the story will end in a satisfying way for all characters combined, for sure, 100%. Do you feel that way too? What's your thoughts? I hope so. Yeah, yeah i think I think this story needs an ending for our main characters. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think it will, for sure.
00:42:41
Speaker
ah Before we move on to the soul or I'm sorry to the OSHA and chimer any final thoughts and John soul in May any other Any other information that you that you caught or anything like that you want to bring up I really like that basil was involved in in all this. Yeah, and pip You know the the two elements that the dark side usually don't pay attention to you know uh droids and and creatures right so um i just thought that little that little team up was was pretty good no that was fun and we'll see where that leads to right i mean basil i well i mean maybe i don't know if that really if it really needs to go any further because yeah i mean they they attacked her
00:43:31
Speaker
That was a funny scene. That was so funny. What are you just like going for kneecaps? Yeah, he starts like dancing and like swinging his arm. Like that's good stuff. Basil, you're the real real hero, real MVP of it all. All right. So let's go to the OSHA and Kaimir of it all.
Kaimir's Manipulative Influence
00:43:53
Speaker
So like you were saying, and talk about manipulation, talk about gaslighting somebody. In true dark side fashion, right? Kymer fits the bill. Kymer is a stranger, if it's fits that bill, right? Supposedly he's a a former Jedi, we'll talk about that.
00:44:19
Speaker
um a he He's making points that sound, may be feasible and you can kinda understand in in the context of from Osho's point of view, right? Like, oh, okay, maybe I didn't think about that, about the Jedi and about this and about that, like, he's still a manipulation, like you're saying narcissist, like to a T, this this guy is 100% Sith, right? Now,
00:44:53
Speaker
Again, is he Sith? Is he just a dark side user? I still go with dark side user. Again, I know if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck. It's a duck. Is he a Sith? Maybe, maybe not. I am still taking it at face failure that he said he has no name, but the Jedi might call him a Sith, right? So, and that kind of gets validated again when he talks about he's a former, if he's a former Jedi, then yeah, he he knows who the Sith are. So then, you know, in that respect, that's what maybe they would call him, but he doesn't go by that, right? He says no name, so. A lot of juicy stuff, a lot of, ah like you're saying, the horniness of Star Wars coming out. Jeez. Right, again, it it gives ah that added
00:45:52
Speaker
ah layer with these two characters right maybe the the fabled fabled enemies to lovers type of trope right I again I'm not buying that but if you want to ship it ship it we've always been that way we've said that since ah Force awakens since you know the rise ah the Red Skywalker the Jedi if you want a ship ship We don't care. We might not like it But hey if you want to have fun with it have fun with it, right? Nothing nothing wrong with that So Ang out of these scenes Talk to me what you got. How'd you feel? What stood out to you because there's a lot of you stuff in these scenes for sure This is the mean potatoes of the episode in my opinion what you got
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely love that Leslie starts with, you know, we just saw the stranger slash Khaimir slash Darth Arms massacre all these Jedi, right? Maybe, and also try to attempt to kill May, right? and And you see like all this terribleness, but let's bring him back into a scene and have him look desirable, right? and it worked. A lot of people loved it. It worked to lie for you know so many people.
00:47:20
Speaker
And I kind of like relate it to like when you're watching a horror movie, right? And then you they usually have like a sex scene or like ah a romantic scene and then then the death like happens. It's air that its it's a trope, right? Right. it's It's kind of like it's to mess like with your emotions and to take you from like it's it's polarizing, right? You go from one side to the other very quickly. So just a lot of great information in this. If you read between the lines, at first it seems like very simple where he is just like, oh, you're holding a lightsaber again. How does it feel, right? If you're a pervert. yes You can take that a lot of ways. You can take that a lot of ways, right? um Not pervert. I didn't mean to say it like that, but you know, you get what I'm saying.
00:48:12
Speaker
If um you are into psychology or the or the human experience and the way um people ah work, you start to see that he is planting the seeds of he could possibly continue her training that she so much ah wants and needs. And he knows that. Exactly. And he knows that, right? He comes out of the water, he's naked, he then um teaches the lesson of, if you killed me right now, it would be revenge. If you did it in the heat of battle, it's not, right? so
00:48:55
Speaker
Or how does he say it? He says, is it honorable to kill me this way? Heat of battle, it's justified, but a few hours later, it's vengeance. That line seems so interesting to me, Lauren. I feel like that line has been said to him before, right? Like something must have happened where there was a battle or a confusion and and a fight and all this stuff. And in the moment, um what happened was was okay. But going back on it later and wanting revenge um is like the path to the dark so dark side. you so editor arc so i mean you You might be on something, which I want to, we'll talk about that, obviously, but go ahead.
00:49:38
Speaker
So she's like, oh, I'm your prisoner. And he was like, prisoner, you're the one holding the lightsaber. Oh, it's so nasty. It's just like.
00:49:47
Speaker
Narcissists. Gaslighting. It's just lies, manipulation, um and it's like trying to get her to question like all of her thoughts, right? like Someone like that is like really comforting at first and trying to give you a choice and making you think that all these things are are justified and all these feelings that you have, they understand. and it It gives that that opposite person, this empathetic person, which Osha is completely, right? She cares about Pip. She cares about the umber moss. She is full of empathy. And narcissism, narcissists normally prey on on that type of personality type.
00:50:30
Speaker
because they're fixers and they're lovers and they can pull that out of them. So this that's all being set up like in this very small moment. right He's trying to confuse her and flip the script on like why she's here, if she's here and she's trapped or she can leave at any time that she wants. right So he's trying to like create this this illusion of choice, right? And it will always come back to I'm giving you a choice, right? You can do this. You can go back to the way you were and that will be good. Or you can do this and we can like learn and be together. And he also
00:51:16
Speaker
like tries to sell the point that the Jedi would never give you that. It's their way and their way of doing things and nothing else, right? It's semantics, it's it's the dogma, it's um only being within the mold that they have created. And most people don't necessarily like that. and But that's also not really the truth of what the Jedi are as well too, right? so i'm trying to get to where i'm going i don't even know like it's just so there's a lot there's a lot that i think these characters talk about and like you're saying there's just moments of osha i mean even and you might be bringing this up but like that moment of her saying like i'm not that easily yeah i'm not my sister right yeah yeah but right but leading up to that right you're that whole scene of him in the water and just again the the sidebar of what is the undertones of that conversation can be taken in many directions but again like you're saying he's trying to like oh yeah how's that feel about holding the lightsaber he should probably hold your elbow up a little bit better like trying to give her pointers right and just like you're saying
00:52:32
Speaker
just gaslighting her up and down and just not you know trying to corrupt her. right and And then trying to say, hey, you're the one with the weapon, not me. and who Who's really the prisoner? like Dude, clearly I am. right But you're trying to make it to where I feel safe, which is insane. right And then he's like, oh, well, if you want to leave, you can you know swim across the ship. Go ahead. Like, be my guest, but hey, you hungry? I got food, you wanna go eat? Like, what are we doing here? Which one sounds better? Right, exactly, like you're saying, choice. Choice, right? So, yeah, that whole, the whole interaction from the beginning, even when she wakes up, she wakes up on this random unknown planet, right? up Again, to her and to odd the the audience. It's an unknown planet, right?
00:53:23
Speaker
And then she sees him just walking to this, uh, you know, to that spot and she grabs a lightsaber and she's ready to defend
Kaimir's Jedi Past Revealed
00:53:33
Speaker
herself. But then again, he's the way he, the way he talks, right? That, that, but then the way, the way he's talking to her, you know, the w what he's saying to her. It's very, again, she starts questioning, right? Or at least she starts like thinking what What is he trying to tell her? what you know why Why hasn't he killed her? right like she's You can tell she's trying to figure everything out for sure.
00:54:02
Speaker
right Yeah, he's when he comes out of the water, he's dressed in white now, right which is you know a symbolism of on like safety. like Light side. right Light side. He's no longer in this dark garb that makes him look like a villain. he He no longer looks like a villain. He just looks like a guy that can walk and talk like a Jedi. And then you find out that he was a Jedi. And you're like, oh. Which makes sense. I mean, I don't mind that. Do you mind that reveal at all? No, I don't. But then again, I don't i don't know how truthful he is, right? like the He's full of like lies and deceit. was yeah Maybe he was a Jedi, and he also talks about like you know he was like pushed away or whatever, discarded.
00:55:00
Speaker
you just You just don't know what's coming out of his mouth is true. But do i do I think he was a Jedi and he says a really long time ago? That has a lot of questions in my head as well, too, because he doesn't look that old, right? He looks like he's in his 30s. And like Osha said, i I never heard of you, you know, I don't know who you are. And he says it was a really long time ago. What is that? Again, it could be
00:55:29
Speaker
I do believe he's, I do believe he's a former Jedi, a hundred percent. Cause we'll, we'll talk about, well, I'll stick up into that. Cause I had a different maybe point. We'll talk about it. But I do think he's telling the truth. And I think that again, in normal circumstances, right? Padawans they're like, what? Three, four, like four or five something like like they're young. Yeah. Okay. So like a really long time ago, maybe when he was that young, something happened, right? So maybe that's what it means. It is kind of weird. I agree. Like just how it came out or how that just is like structured to where like, uh, you know, yeah, I was a Jedi a long time ago. And she's like, well, I don't remember you. And that could be even like,
00:56:23
Speaker
the Jedi trying to cover it up, clearly they try to cover a lot of shit up as we're figuring out, right? This could have been something that they tried to cover up, hence why they wouldn't want to bring it up or say anything, right, to their padawans or whatever, right? And then for him to say it was a really long time ago, I could buy that. But like you're saying, it is kind of weird because it doesn't look that old, obviously, right? So it's kind of a off, kind of, an off-putting sentence, but I still think that what he's saying is true as far as being a former Jedi. I 100% believe that. I do wanna stick a pin in a really long time ago because I think I wanna talk about it later. Okay, all right, we'll stick a pin in
Osha's Resistance to Manipulation
00:57:13
Speaker
that too. because yeah i mean that That has context of what it, right, there's there's a lot of things that could be for sure.
00:57:22
Speaker
But even so with that scene, too, I think that's when she that that's what he tells her about, you know, you can leave like we were talking about. You can, you know, swim because it's going to get, you know. The tides are coming in, but you can go ahead, take the ship, go out here, and that's fine, you're not a prisoner, quote unquote. But I have food here, do you want to eat? Like, he's just so weird and random. But again, like you're saying, he's manipulating her, he's trying to deceive her, and he's trying to, you know, he brings up the the relationship, you know, how special a relationship between ah a master and their pupil is. Which again,
00:58:04
Speaker
in the context of when that happened, when they were down by the water, a little weird. ti But again, yeah i think again, he's trying to like put these things in her head, like you're saying, right? Like he's trying to deceive her and trying to corrupt her 100%. Right. Right. So he tells her, like or Osha's like, hey, Sol's going to find me. He found me before. He's going to find me again. He's really strong in the forest. And Kamir's like, is that him? Or is that actually you that's strong in the forest and he says someone ought to teach you about that?
00:58:42
Speaker
So that's, again, like enticing her to to want to know more. And then he's like, oh, you want to leave? Or you want to eat food? And we'll talk about how you're strong in the forest, right? Which are you going to do, right? They're choices, but they're not. Right. He's not really giving her... is He's saying he's giving her a choice, but he's really giving her one option. So they get, so Osha brings up like strength in the forest, right? She says without training, it fades, right? That's ah immediately what she tells him because that's what she's been taught by the Jedi for so long. That's what we've been told as well too. And Kaimir says that's what they tell you, right? So now is like that introduction of the us and they, right? Starting to separate them
00:59:31
Speaker
those two together from the rest of everything else, right? It's something that like narcissists do perfectly. They create a a safe space for just you and that person right yeah and then separates you from everyone else and always will pit us against them. so He starts to talk about how there's other ways to access the forest, right? Powerful emotion, anger, fear, loss, desire. We all know, what are those? Those are paths to the dark side, right? And we also know that they're, how does Yoda say it? Easily more seductive as well, too.
01:00:12
Speaker
So when OSHA like tells them like that's the path to the dark side, he's like man semantics, right? Like he knows it is as well, too. And he knows that there's no strength truly in that because there's no discipline in how to use it. But he doesn't want to agree with her. He kind of just wants to make her question her own thinking. So after that, he just like the lies just like keep going coming. It's just like he's trying to make her look at things from like different perspectives. And then, like you said earlier, Osha's like, I'm not my sister. I can't be this easily corrupted. like I can see what you're doing, and it's not working on me, which I truly believe she is.
01:01:02
Speaker
Smarter at making emotional decisions than OSHA was considering that she grew up. Yeah. Yeah, then then me so It's just like it's it's so interesting how He has her like at this this like precipice, right? Like is she going to take what he's saying at face value and then he's able to
Kaimir's Origins and Connections
01:01:33
Speaker
have her be a pupil of his or is she actually so strong in the force that she is going to actually be an enemy and something that he's have to he'll have to discard and get rid of. He's really hoping like for the the the first part because he wants a pupil. He wants a pupil to be able to
01:01:54
Speaker
Have the power of two he wants the power of two which he brings up right right which he brings up So whether that's the rule of two or the power of one the power of two the power of many don't know But um it's interesting that they do that play on words. So you're starting to think Sith, but you're also starting to think coven Yeah, I there's so many ways that this could go as far as Sith or the like you talk about the coven. Again, I'm taking it at face failure as he is not named Sith. He just because of his Jedi training or because of you know his time during in the order. As as limited as it might have been, he learned about the dark side, right? So he knows they're called Sith. But I think there is a connection with him and the coven. Obviously, we'll learn
01:02:49
Speaker
I think within the next couple of episodes that either he was there or something. Like in he's connected to that covenant in some way, shape or form. I don't know what, I don't know how, but he is connected to that. Right? Cause just how in the previous episode when Osha was talking about Well, she was talking to Yord about, you know, that's how my mom did it when, when he was talking about how he just gets in the, it gets in your head. Right. Again, I don't think that line is there for just a throwaway line. Like that's, there's a connection. Right. So like you're saying, is he like a, a part of that coven that just doesn't age. You know what I'm saying? Like.
01:03:40
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. Is there a little pool of water you was swimming in, have some sort of healing properties? Now you could, that's not a bad idea. I don't, I don't disagree with that theory. I wonder if it was like Baka-esque or right. Something. Yeah, something. I, I could buy that. I can buy that for sure. But I do like that scene where, you know, he's, he's pushing her to be like, well, why aren't you a Jedi then? If that's what you always wanted. Right. And he knows that. And then she gets so angry. She, you know, ignites a lightsaber, puts it to his, to his throat and is like, I failed. Right. And then he was like, what does he say? Something about, you know, it's again, I think he starts using the they and us. Yeah. He set he says,
01:04:30
Speaker
He said, I, I lost everything. Right. And he says, when you lose everything, that's when you're finally free. So he's trying to relate her, her situation with his situation and right separate. um them from from everyone else because right so when you've lost everything, when you separate yourself from everything that you ever were before, your your family, your friends, your youre knowledge, your um philosophy, once you free yourself of of those things, that's that's when you're finally free. um It's just him trying to to get her to believe that she needs to leave behind everything that she ever was and become something new.
01:05:15
Speaker
His, right. His apprentice or his aculite as he, his people. Yep. As he said in the last episode, for sure. So yeah. And then again, and then he brings up, um, I think they're in the cave at this point and then he brings up the. Cortis. So, so again, it's an EU poll, which is great. And like you were saying, Ang, I didn't know this, but was this in the cave or where you said it was, or is it like an outside shot? No, it's, it's right there, like right behind them. It's in the background. You can see like the van of cortosis, like coming down when he's like trying to, uh, repair the, Oh, the mask. Oh, okay. I'll have to, I'll have to relook. That's cool.
01:05:59
Speaker
But again, and like you brought up earlier, so the, you know, he talks about you wearing that mask is more like a deprivation thing that again, maybe you can kind again. You see where he could, you know, where him being a former Padawan or former Jedi or whatever comes into play because he's like, you know, because he brings up the fact that it's like what they used to wear when they were kids, like when they were Padawans, right? the Which is very similar to what Luke, right? The mask and it's just total darkness and everything, and but that's where you can really
01:06:35
Speaker
sense and use the force, right? Because you're in that dark, but yeah you know, the clarity and all that stuff. So anything in that, in this kind of in the, in this scene, whether in the cave pop out to you. I know you said the, uh, the court of stuff is in the background, which I didn't know. That's really, really cool. But what what else about the scene that yeah you pulled from? Yeah, now, I was just trying to kind of ask him questions, and he's definitely not being forthcoming any of it, which is like narcissist to a T. You ask them a question, they ask you a question right back. It's it's terrible. um But she said, like is this the same like pitch you like made for my sister ah or to my sister? And he he admits that.
01:07:20
Speaker
but He says that May was a mistake. He thought that um she wanted more than revenge. And that's when he brings up the power of two. And did he really like think that's what May wanted? Or was he ultimately just trying to get to OSHA? And that I think he ultimately was trying to get to OSHA. Yeah, you've been on you've been on that for a while. Yeah. So then Osha asks him where he got that scar on his back because he keeps showing it off, right? It's almost like kind of making it obvious. Yeah, super obvious. um And he doesn't answer. He says, how do you think I got it? Oh, I just I can't stand that behavior. It is so terrible. Just answer the question. So um she says it looks like someone stabbed you and in the back and that came up.
01:08:14
Speaker
in episode five as well too when he was fighting soul he was like attacking someone when when their back is turned you know so obviously there's this perception that he has that he was attacked from behind, stabbed in the back. um What was done to him was so un-Jedi like that he has refused the Jedi now and is now um out to be um the ruler of himself and to even take down the Jedi through like killing the dream. So what do you think about the scar on his back?
01:08:57
Speaker
So where I go with this is I, this is where my maybe tinfoil hat comes in to play.
Theory: Kaimir and Vernestra's History
01:09:04
Speaker
But I wonder if he was Vernestra's padawan. And that scar is from her whip. yeah That's my guess, I think. Because I don't think you bring in, like again, Vernestra as just a character like in the background trying to like you know facilitate stuff that's going on. Right. She's involved, clearly. And I think that is her former padawan that did something. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? I think, so I mean, that's where I go. Where do you go then? do you think I go there too. And it makes me want to lose my mind because reading the books and knowing who Venestra is to think that she also is trying to cover something up and at one time had a padawan
01:09:52
Speaker
and he is now turned to the dark side, it's it is so mind boggling to me. like it It is actually nothing I ever expected. like When everybody felt like Vernestro is sus in the beginning, I was like, give me a break. like That's Vern. you know she She reports to the High Council. She ah has been like a ah literal Jedi hero throughout the entirety of the of the High Republic. you know Her friend turns to the Dark Side, and she gets to um helps him to like see his ways and and changes him back. like
01:10:28
Speaker
her light web has dark side properties to it. And that's why she was completely um afraid to to utilize it as well too. So it's like, there's no way for an Esther is a bad guy or did anything wrong, but that's the lesson, right? Like Jedi aren't perfect, right? They make mistakes. That's a huge theme and lesson in Star Wars. Yeah. But yeah, that's where I go with it. I, I do think, He is her former padawan that. Did something, I don't know what. So when I think that, like, when he says a really long time ago, he was a Jedi, right? Um, Vernestra species lives for a long time, right? What are the, it starts with a name. I can't remember the name. It's the same as, um, Barris and, and. What's her name, but anyway, um,
01:11:22
Speaker
Mary Ellen or Marilyn or something like that. Oh, yeah, I can't though. Yeah, I know you're talking about can't remember because so it is possible that he was in the Jedi Order 50 years ago, 75 years ago, right? Because That's probably why Osha doesn't know of him and that's maybe also why Sol doesn't know of him or recognize him recognize him as well too. Or like you're saying, he was he was a very young padawan and left when he was young as well too. So that that that part is where it has my mind completely boggled. like
01:12:04
Speaker
to think like we were all like, so and still focusing on the OSHA and the, and May and brand doc. And what did soul do? And now we've introduced this element that Vernestra who fans of high Republic books have known to always be impeccable in her behavior might have created this dark side user or not necessarily created, but the reason why he He turned in right and lights down to the dark side. That's nuts to me. Those are nuts Yeah, it's gonna be interesting if that if that's the case, right? I get i just it gives off that vibe but But I don't again. Is it a hundred percent certain? No But again, I go to why bring in Vernestra to just be a back not background character, but
01:12:59
Speaker
to just be on Coruscant or just be like the person kind of following them after, you know, chaos has ensued or whatever, right? Just like c cleaning up the mess. She has to be, there's more more to it for her. So going back to the cave, when Osha asks him about the scar, he says, someone threw me away. And Osha says, you're Jedi Master. And of course, he doesn't answer her. He just changes his subject about the stupid helmet, right? So we don't even know, right? We don't even know if it was his Jedi Master.
01:13:40
Speaker
and Like what's been happening throughout this entire episode, what's coming out of his mouth cannot be believed. like You can't believe like what he's saying. um because He only gives you bits and pieces of what happened and he wants you to believe his side of the story and he wants you to feel empathy and um he wants you to feel sorry for what happened to him so that you can come to an understanding and and and connect your own um you know fears with him as well too. So he brings up the,
01:14:22
Speaker
hortosis helmet, and how it's like so sensory deprivation, and then it blocks out all your senses. And he says, it's just you and the force and what you bring with you. Super Dagobah, right? So, very before Luke walks into the the cave on Dagobah, that's exactly what Yoda says. um they are What's in there is is is you and and what you take with you. So like I said, like going back, if Mei puts this thing on, what's she going to bring with her? I mean, if if Osha puts it on, what's she going to bring with her? Is she going to bring Mei with her? Is she going to bring her Jedi teachings with her? Well, we get to see something like that like as well, too. So it's just ah it's it's it's been perfectly like set up for us. i it's It's really great.
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah, I know they are they are setting it up to where. OSHA maybe falls. I don't know what falls to the to his side, but it's kind at least considering it right, because that last shot that we see of her and the end of the episode is her putting on the helmet. So like, what does that mean? Like you're saying what? Where do we go from there? What is she going to, like, what vision or what what is she gonna see, right? Is she gonna connect with May? Because again, we've seen that plenty of time. So will we go to that well again? Maybe, maybe not, right? So it's gonna be fascinating how this all turns out for for OSHA.
01:16:09
Speaker
Because I still think at deep down she is that she wants to be a Jedi, right? Because that's that's what she's always wanted. And I don't know, in i I agree, I don't think she is as easily corruptible like May. but she's not un-susceptible to these seductional ways of how the Sith or how dark side users bring in people to their side, right? With these you know narcissistic tendencies for sure, right? So i it's gonna be fascinating. i don't i don't I really don't know where we go. I really don't. I have no clue.
01:16:58
Speaker
No clue, but I'm excited to see where we go, though, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think about a lot how in the Darth Plagueis book when they talk about when they're looking for new acquisitions, like if when they're looking for accolades or looking for a new apprentice, um they do go after someone that has had a lived like has lived in life and has has gone through ah trials and has regrets and has has created um fears and attachments and stuff like that. That's not Mei, that is Osha. So that's why we'll always go back to that she was like the ultimate prize um for Khmer in the first place, which is interesting, which means he has to be familiar with the coven.
01:17:47
Speaker
Right. He has to be familiar with their power. um Are we going to go back to like how they were created um and stuff like that? So um look you can see the cortosis vein when um OSHA puts the helmet on like when she walks up to it. That's where you can. OK, OK, OK. I'll keep an eye on that. But I think it's going to be interesting, too, like you're saying, the connection that he has, but then also That idea, like you're saying, was she really the ultimate thing? Because again, I get so far, I get the sense that nobody knew, or at least May and Kaimir, or at least Kaimir didn't give off the vibe of him knowing that she was still alive. He knew there were twins.
01:18:37
Speaker
Right, but he didn't know I get the vibe that when she saw him in that episode Dressed up as right trying to come back as as may and when he said you just you look just like her I feel again how I took that as I feel that he really didn't he Didn't know that she was alive. She was as surprised as May was but again the connection between him and the coven, I think is there. I really do. I think there's there's some connection. And I think to your point though, Ange, I think maybe when he realized that Osha was alive, maybe his, his chimeras kind of plans changed, right? And maybe then he wanted to get Osha instead of May.
01:19:35
Speaker
Especially after he figured out she was going to Like give him up, right? Yeah So I think that's all still in play a hundred percent. So ah Any other final thoughts before we get to the the vernestra quick those quick scenes ah with? Kaimir and OSHA anything else you want to bring up no there's There's a lot. There's meaty meaty stuff in there for sure. There was a lot of meat. Yeah. Yeah Yeah
01:20:07
Speaker
yeah so but Pun intended, but not really intended. and But yeah, let's get to Vernestra, because again, she had a couple of quick scenes. ah But again, the one scene was really cool. We'll talk about that in a second. But the first thing we see here is basically getting a message. Well, talking to a senator, I believe, and basically getting an update of how the Senate is feeling and what's
Vernestra's Political Intrigue
01:20:37
Speaker
going on. Yeah, Senator Chiwant. Right. I guess there's this thing that they do sometimes when they have a certain senator, they name him after a B.C. Boy song, so that guy was named after So What You Want. I love that. I know.
01:20:54
Speaker
And then they, they were talking about another Senator Ray rain court, rain court. Yeah. So I don't know if he is from the high Republic. And he mentioned that you can, okay. So, so new, new person. Okay. But it sounds like this, basically the center's kind of wanting to bring down, not bring down the Jedi order, but it's questioning their audit. Yeah. He wants to make sure they're doing their, you know, They're staying in their lane, basically. Yeah. Right. So she's talking to that senator about that. And then and is this kid a Padawan? I didn't. I don't know if he's her Padawan or. Yeah, id I'm not sure either. But then he's the one that comes in and says, we got a communication from soul kind of crap, but we think the whole team like he's the only survivor, basically. Right.
01:21:52
Speaker
that he's somewhere in the outer rim. And then she basically tells him like, yeah, because I sent him out there, so let's go. So I mean, that was kind of based the the very first ah first scene with her, right? And then after that, it's and them going on the mission. And then Mog was kind of surprised that she was going along. And I know there's, he brings up, he brings up because she gets sick, right? And now, and again, you read a lot more of The Higher Republic than I have. There's something with her and hyperspace, right? So so talk talk about these couple scenes, but then yeah, if you want to dive into that, what that's all about, go ahead, what you got.
01:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, it was really cool to hear that there's a senator out there wanting to audit the Jedi, which makes that conversation that she had a few episodes back of wanting to keep some of the things from the Senate. Because at first you think like she's just being kind of shifty, but then now we realize there actually is a part of the Senate that is questioning what the what what the Jedi do. And like she said, the enemies want to Right. Bring them down or whatever. Right. Right. Right. Right. So.
01:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, when he she says she finds ah hyperspace travel disturbing, or I don't remember like exactly how she says it. But yeah, in the books, one of Vernestra's things is that when she goes into hyperspace, she um falls into these meditations. And then she also um gets caught in these visions to where she's either seeing like future events of like disaster. And there are even moments where she was like talking to a dead person. She was talking to Mari Santeca. so I think maybe she just wanted to separate herself from that subconscious of, of her mind. Right. And that's probably, and maybe it's because of what happened between her and Khmer if that is even like the connection. So doesn't seem like she had problems this time when they went there, there was no episode or anything like that. But I think it was kind of more just like a little Easter egg, right? Of like.
01:24:03
Speaker
them saying like they did their homework and they know who Vern is and she don't she doesn't like to travel hyperspace. So there is that. Yeah, no, definitely I think more of an Easter egg. Yeah, I would agree with that. And then just letting the people know that she doesn't like it. And maybe again, maybe in the next episode or two, well, maybe she does have a vision, right? Which would be kind of cool. Right. I think that'd be pretty sweet. Cause then you would get that, that would make, that kind of explanation of why, you know, Mogg was like, ah, you sure you want to go? Like it would give that a little more context. Right. Or like you're saying, it was just for those people who read the high, high Republic, which is fine. It's nothing like you have to know about her, but it's just something that like you're saying this character goes through. Is it every time she's in hyperspace? No. Okay. So again,
01:24:58
Speaker
Maybe this just this ride, she was completely fine. Like you're saying no big deal, but they go to Kofar and they see the aftermath. Right. And she's walking around and f correct me if I'm wrong. She says something about, she makes a like a small comment about to or like what, like she kind of whispers whispers it to herself before she uses the light whip, which was sweet. To tip the scales. To tip the scales. Yeah. So like that main something to her, like that was, and I don't remember it being said before. She did say it. That's why I watched episode four because I wanted to see she if it was said before by someone else or by her. And it actually was said by her
01:25:43
Speaker
when her after they did that briefing and her and soul were talking off on the side and soul was like what if uh and she was saying like i fear her master has has a a ah deeper plan than than what's going on than than brendak or whatever however they say it and she was like something tipped the scales so in episode four and then again like so When they get to the scene of where the battle was, Vern asks Mog what he sees, which makes me kind of believe maybe he is her padawan because she's trying to teach lessons or whatever. write um he He says that there was ah an explosion and then a battle, and then he says ah his powers are extraordinary, his skills erratic.
01:26:30
Speaker
um
01:26:33
Speaker
And she says, they and then Vern says they were all killed by lightsabers. And she says, what does that tell you? ah And Mog says, a powerful Jedi has fallen. And then he goes, you don't think it's soul, do you? which again is like such a crazy like play on words because it gets you thinking like maybe like you know it isn't soul but maybe soul has lost his way and then but you're also thinking maybe it was her Jedi come here that lost his way it's just like these each sentence has like so much intention behind it it's so interesting
01:27:10
Speaker
Um, but verness are also says like, that's quite the accusation. Like she doesn't want other Jedi to think like soul is bad. She probably doesn't want the audience to think either that soul is bad or, or whatever. So, um, he says, who else would possess a power to slate such a strong group? And then that's when she whispers to herself, uh, something to tip the stick, uh, scales. Um,
01:27:37
Speaker
Then she uses the, or no, before that, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. So then he was like, well, if it, you know, why would soul send a distress signal if he like won't answer it? Right. And I don't know. And the moment he changed mine. I mean, it's a good question, right? Yeah. I mean, it's a solid question. You're not wrong, Mog.
Significance of the Light Whip
01:27:58
Speaker
You're not wrong. You're not wrong, Mog. Keep speaking out loud. Maybe you'll get it. and kate Keep thinking out loud. We'll get there. So it's just a it's a really small scene. And and at first watch, I i didn't really under feel the weight of ah what they were saying and what she was saying.
01:28:19
Speaker
and then the connection of it from the the fourth episode as well, too. But
Speculation on Character Histories
01:28:25
Speaker
the light whip, right, comes out. And at first we were like, when we saw the light whip in the trailer, we were like, yeah, the light whip, woo. But now we're like, oh, come here, scar, and a light whip, interesting. So that. Right, right. It's almost good it was revealed in the trailers, because when it got revealed in the episode, you were kind of like, oh, man. Uh-oh, it was cool. Like, yeah, I mean, my first initial reaction was like, oh, okay, there it is. Looks cool. But then, right, my second thought was like, oh, wait, was she the one that marked him? Like, what so there's connection, whether that's her former padawan or somebody that she just came across, right? A former, like a friend of hers, maybe they were friends.
01:29:18
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. But they see that it seems just a little bit sus that he has a scar like that that looks like a whip scar. Right. Because it's long. Yeah. Right. It just it. And you put two and two togethers. They seem to have maybe cross paths somewhere before, whether they that's her former padawan or again, whatever connection they have. She
Vernestra and Dark Side Involvement
01:29:49
Speaker
seems to be like connected in some regard more than I think we originally thought, right? So I don't know how she's involved. I mean, what do you think? Like, I don't know if I go panel one. i I mean, I go that way, but then I kind of go like, well, maybe it's just a former Jedi former that she knew. I don't know. It's a lot. I'm not going to say that.
01:30:18
Speaker
I'm not going to say that Vern. And first of all, she doesn't like to be called Fern, just so everybody knows annestra she hates that. Um, but in the high Republic herself and a lot of other Jedi avar Chris, they have to, you know, battle the, the drain gear and the nameless and that, um, has dark side properties within it and can really leave a scar h on, on Jedi. So maybe after, um, and we don't know what happens at the end of the the high Republic era that's that hasn't come out yet, but if.
01:30:58
Speaker
Obviously, Vern survives it, but I'm sure that she has some emotional baggage left from it, which can maybe somewhat curl up the way that she used to be. And she kind of loses who she who she was when when teaching a new padawan, which could be Khmer. It's like where I go with it. That seems like the the simplest path, the most obvious path. um
01:31:25
Speaker
And I could also see that when that did happen, how Kamir could take it ah the way that he did and ran with it and and became a user ah or ah a servant to the dark side. So that's where I think we're going. That's why I think like, oh my God,
Future Episode Theories
01:31:41
Speaker
all of a sudden there's a new there's a new plot point going on in this story. I'm shocked. Yeah, I mean it brings up again a lot of more questions than answers And I know you said you wanted to bring up unless you and and you might have brought it up about how come here said long Yeah, I did like how she her Vernestra's ah Species has a long lifespan. So it is possible that he will he was like he will
01:32:12
Speaker
He was a padawan, 50, 75 years ago, you know, right after ah the High Republic era, you know, ended. But that doesn't explain hit the way he looks, right? But I mean, right he could, it could be cover magic. It could be like that. That's what I think it is. Yeah. I go with that, right? Could be the pool he was swimming in, skinny dipping in, you know? Right. Right. It could be. a Yeah. I, I go more towards he's his connection to the coven. Yeah. We'll find out whether he got maybe possessed like Tobin did. And then just his mind became like,
01:33:02
Speaker
fell to that dark side because of that. right i I don't know. At this point, I really don't know where this is going, which is fun because I think that gives you know more the the story is doing its job, right? Cause it's asking, it's asking these questions and then giving you more, it's answering some questions, but then giving you more to think on every week, right? So it's doing a really good job in that respect, a hundred percent. So ah yeah, I know seeing the whip was cool. I loved it.
01:33:36
Speaker
But again, I went straight to, oh no, does that mean she's involved in some way, shape or form more than what we thought, right? For Vernestra. So we'll see how this ends, man. I mean, we got the penultimate coming up and
Episode Reflections and Speculations
01:33:51
Speaker
then we have ah the the finale in two weeks. So buckle up, kids. I think this might be a a wild, wild ending because a lot of things can happen. A lot of things could happen, right? And I i do really do think we're going to Brenda next week though, right? I think that just oh wait yeah fisher makes the most sense. Brenda and who knows where else? Right. Cause again, where is soul going? Cause he has, he has may right. Tied up. I would think he's going to Brenda. Maybe right. Or he's going back to Coruscant cause he says he needs to talk to the high council.
01:34:34
Speaker
but Listen soul's not gonna make it Yeah, I don't know man, I mean, I don't know if if I don't even know if chimer is gonna make it No one's gonna anyone that's seen chimer. I don't know. I don't think they're making it. Wait, that would be crazy Cuz again, we don't know I don't know what's gonna happen like I I You would think that Kaimir would have to not make it past this, but I don't know. I don't know. I mean, he could survive. Maybe that's where season two comes in. Hmm. Sounds great. I mean, I'm not going to hate it. Manny Jacinto is absolutely crushing it as this character. I don't know if you've seen some of his behind the scenes videos training. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. Dope. Dope.
01:35:28
Speaker
Yeah, I hope we see another. I want to see another fight. Oh, I think we'll get that in the very last episode. I do. I think it's going to be soul and chimer. And I think the sisters will fight, but I think again, that's where maybe they will come together finally. That's my got that with your insight information. No, that's not because I'll probably probably more than likely will be wrong. And it's just going to end in a way that I I'm going to write this down. Write it down. Write it down, kids. Write it down. That's where we're going with it. um Final thoughts, hands before we wrap it up and bring it on home. Yeah, it seemed like a ah pretty ah slow, ah relaxing ah
01:36:19
Speaker
episode where not much was going on, but a lot was going on, right? If
Conclusion and Social Media
01:36:23
Speaker
you could read between the lines and and you had a... You have like a... an interest of what these characters outcomes are gonna be so it's great episode a lot of innuendos can be taken away from oh my gosh so many the innuendos of it all but no yeah this was a really good episode again it's gonna be fascinating I mean we're here for it see how this all ends ah and who survives who doesn't
01:36:52
Speaker
We will find out. We will find out. All right, kids, that's it. That's the show. I hope you guys liked and enjoyed our recap of episode six of the Acolyte. ah You can follow us, The Galactic Podcast at The Galactic Pod and all the social media platforms. And then you can find us on Apple Pod, Google Play, Spotify, all the major platforms ah for your listening podcast pleasures. And then you can follow me, Lauren Romo at Lowro Knows and all those social platforms as well. You can follow
BTS Update and Farewell
01:37:21
Speaker
me, Andrea Gutierrez, at r2d2step on Twitter, slash X, slash Instagram, slash threads.
01:37:34
Speaker
Um, Jimin's album guy. Oh yeah, BTS. Next week, maybe? No, the 17th, 19th. It's coming up, coming in close, but it's pretty good content flying around with my main man, Jimin. So he's got a solo coming out, right? Yeah, another solo album. Nice, nice. That's your bt BTS update of the week, kids. All right. And as always, may that force be with you. Always, always.