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Episode 154- The Acolyte Recap Episode 7
91 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to The GALactic Podcast! In this episode, Andrea and Lauren chat about The Acolyte Episode Seven! Are they still team Sol? Are the answers regarding Brendok satisfying? Is Mother Koril still alive? Are the Jedi the true Villains? We talk these topics and much here! Go listen and enjoy!
Reminder to rate and review where available! And as always, May that force be with you!Reminder to rate and review where available! And as always, May that force be with you!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:11
Speaker
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Glad to Podcast. I am Lauren Romo, and with me, as always, is my cousin and fellow nerd, Andrea Gutierrez. Yo, yo, yo. Bright sons, question mark. Listen, I have two of the loudest talkers upstairs in my house right now. Like, you could hear them from down the street. So I apologize if you can hear. I can't hear anything. I'll let you know these are mine because I can hear them. I hear so loud. So i'll I'll be interested to see if I can hear it on the playback and get to what the conversations are. But anyway, welcome to our world, kids. America's great. We're fine. Everything's fine. Fire behind me is fine. Everything's fine. How are you? How are you?
00:01:04
Speaker
Oh boy. Anyway, Ange, let's talk Star Wars. because Listen, I want to show you, like you can see, but like the, this is how many notes I did for this episode. Oh wow. Okay. That's a lot of scrolling. I watched it last night. Look at, I'm still scrolling. why are I see it. I see it. That's like at least a good solid three minutes of scrolling. And, um, It must have taken me two hours to get through the episode because it was like always like a pause and I had a I had to type something out. Yeah, it was crazy. I have I have a couple pages and then another page I should have wrote instead of put it on but I but I write real quick like it's just that full sentences. I just remember like just things that I
00:01:49
Speaker
that I just, so I know it references me to what I was thinking at the time. Hopefully, usually that's what happens, but a lot to discuss about this one
Star Wars Topics and Acolyte Episode 7 Discussion
00:01:59
Speaker
for sure. How we're going to talk about the Acculite episode seven, but before we get into that fun conversation, if this is your first time in listening to us, welcome. We are Sorrowers Podcast to discuss anything and everything within that galaxy far, far away. In each episode we will dive into one or two topics and handle a general discussion on them. Topics could be movies, TV series, books, comics, a specific character, you name it, and we talk about it. Alright, and we are here the pen ultimate episode number seven of acolyte
00:02:35
Speaker
titled Choice, one word, not a two word title. And our director for this one was a returning director, Kogonada, and then writers were Charmaine DeGrati, who she was a writer previously as well, ah Jen Richards, and then Jasmine Flowernoy, Flowernoy, sorry, Flowernoy. So again, a couple, I know Jasmine and Charmaine have been ah credited. I don't recall seeing Jen Rogers, but she might've been too, so apologies if yeah if we have seen her as a writer before as well. but Again, fresh takes, all ah presumably ah women writing, so that's very cool. ah So let's ah let's get into it, Ange, because ooey, penultimate.
00:03:27
Speaker
Kind of what we were thinking. We went back to Brenda. We got some answers, question mark, lots of more, more questions, more questions, a hundred percent. Let's give our overall thoughts feelings. How do we feel struggles, likes, dislikes, kicks off edge, which got for this episode, initial watch. I came out of it.
00:03:51
Speaker
just like, I mean, dead silent. I was like, hundred percent with you and that one i'm with you I had mixed feelings um of around the choices of how that story, that part of the story was told. And we'll get into it more, but I was definitely disappointed um in what happened in Soul Story. So I feel like that it was so it was like, Even though I was upset about what happened with Soul, it didn't mean I disliked the episode. It was like so hard to describe. Actually, I can describe it. I went golfing yesterday, right? And I sucked. And I told the guys I was golfing with and I said, listen, I know I'm really like, sucking at golf right now, but I'm still enjoying myself, right? Like I'm not going to get in a bad mood because, you know, I can't golf right now. right but right And I'm not going to trash this show because I didn't like or I felt uncomfortable about a character that I had high hopes for.
00:05:02
Speaker
voices that were done right right right after watching it a couple more times i like came to terms with that and i had to like continue to remind myself like the jedi aren't perfect right like we always try to make sure or we always try to see the best in Jedi and expect the best in them and then when we don't get it, it's it's difficult. It reminds me of the feeling coming out of the prequels like the Jedi just didn't have it together like we assumed that they did um coming out of the original trilogy and that's exactly how I felt at the end of this episode as well too.
Jedi Imperfections and Lore Contributions
00:05:42
Speaker
Some of the choices
00:05:44
Speaker
Um, of how the story was told to me, it was done way too quickly. I feel like, and we'll get into that as well too. We really could have been and benefited from like a tour of an episode. We could have benefited from a, uh, pre like, uh, soul before he was on brand doc, right? Like his mentality around wanting a padawan. Um, and I wish we could have explored. ah him um connecting with OSHA like what was that like it seemed so quick random and yes thank you yeah it was and I and it this is what I'm gonna say okay and then you can go every um we if we don't get a season two of this show I want a novelization of it
00:06:40
Speaker
because I need more information. yeah And I don't believe that we're gonna get it in the last episode, which is fine because Star Wars always leaves stuff open to interpretation, but I feel like it was necessary to add a little bit more information around these characters. All of them. yeah I 100% agree with everything you're saying because I've had very similar feelings on initial watch. Because i I think I even when we were texting about it a little bit that we sometimes do, I was just like, huh?
00:07:21
Speaker
Interesting like yeah, I was like Interesting choices, but I and that's what I'm i'm glad again i I I was curious to see how you were like again your deeper thoughts on it And I'm glad we were kind of we we're on the same page um Initially I was very like like I said in that when I texted you I was like this is interesting and The choice is made, and it's an apropos title. It's a very apropos title. Oh yeah, absolutely. And it's, I understand some of the choices that were done, misguided as they were, right? I can understand some of them. Like the, again,
00:08:19
Speaker
the Mother Aniseya stuff, all the common stuff, that works for me, 100%. All that works for me. The Jedi stuff is the stuff that, ah again, I'm with you when it's like, I understand the Jedi are flawed, right? we You and I have talked about that in, Again, go back to our episodes of anything. We always talk about how the Jedi are flawed, they're dogmatic, you know, they're dogmatic views and everything like that, right? They're hubris is really what caused them. And then again, in this episode, Mother Aniseya straight out calls it out. We'll get to that, right? so
00:08:59
Speaker
Again, a lot of it works for me. And I even think I even I tweeted this to him, like, you know, a lot of this is good stuff. Like, again, you and I have talked about it in all these other episodes that we kept about it. A lot of the stuff is really good. It's a good lore building. It's some really interesting character stuff, right? And we have talked about it in the past about, again, this is a setup to what we will see the Jedi organization, the Jedi Order become, right? This is just kind of that story that leads up to that. And and we you and I have really come to terms with that, right? I mean, you we have.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, but it still sucks to see it. It does. And I think just it's just so some of the stuff was just for me. But you brought it up like the soul stuff. Was kind of out of left field, some of it. um The Torben stuff, too, like I get it. But then I'm like, OK. And then Kanaka was just there. And he was there. But, you know, the the major impact he has was interesting. Right. We'll get to that. So, yeah, I mean, again, it's the end. With the struggles that I have with it, that doesn't just like you said, Ang, that doesn't take away the enjoyment that I have had watching this show for the mood for the entire run that has been on. Right. Just because we might have some questions, concerns or just, you know.
00:10:30
Speaker
um not you know with not vibing with it at times doesn't mean we hate it kids that's the problem I think and this is a whole other podcast but like I think that's part of the issue with trying to have these nuance again the word and a lot of people like to use the word nuance these nuanced conversations that I think a lot of fans have but then they get so diluted into the oh well if you you're saying you don't like it you're automatically in the wrong Right? Like, or if you, if you like it so much, you can't see the flaws and you're a shill and all that stuff. Yeah. Like it's stupid. Like we can't have genuine conversations anymore. Like I think, and that's why I think I really like, again, how you and I do it, not to obviously toot our own horn, but we have these types of conversations, right? We are able to have
00:11:23
Speaker
these type of, hey, yeah, we might not have liked it, but that doesn't mean we hate it. We still like it. Here's the reasons why we like it, right? Very similar, again, all praise to you know Ken Joseph and Jen at Four Center. They have these conversations. A lot of other, Molly and Alex at Star Wars Explained, a lot of other podcasts out there have these conversations, right? And that's good. But then they get so diluted into the whole kind of, you know, the epicenter or whatever you want to call it of the Star Wars fandom on the social media platforms where around that. It just gets all bundled up and just gets all like in the madness, right? So it gets lost. So again, I know that's a very big side tangent to basically say, I enjoyed that. There's lots of that I liked in this. There's some stuff that I kind of scratched my head and I'm like, interesting choice.
00:12:21
Speaker
For a penultimate episode, I don't know where we, again, which is fine, I don't know where we're going with it. And I think, I agree with you, I don't think we'll get a lot of the questions answered because you're right, Star Wars does like to leave a lot of things ambiguous, up to interpretation. And then, you know again, I 100% agree with you, Angie. I want some backstory to a lot of these characters, because then maybe that would at least help me again. And a lot of people might just be ah might be totally sold on what they're doing, and that's great. That's 100% fine. i For me personally, I would like more detail.
00:13:06
Speaker
but because we like the stories, right? We like the the deeper stories behind some of these character choices. We like character development. We never see episodes as filler. We always take them for an opportunity to get to know a character better. And I feel like that's what the show lacked. No, I agree. Up until, yeah, I would i totally agree with it. I think, we just need some more context. And again, maybe maybe we get it in the last episode, who knows, right? Maybe do I'm not gonna hold my breath on that. I think it's gonna stick a landing of sorts, 100%. I believe we're gonna get some really cool answers. I think we'll get some really cool stuff going on, right? And we'll talk about it, because I have some thoughts about where maybe this leads.
00:13:59
Speaker
But I, again, overall, oh, the overall series I have enjoyed this episode. Again, there's some good stuff in here. We're going to talk about it. But then there are some choices, some character choices, some other, again, just just little things. I'm just like, that's just interesting. I. But upon another watch, I just watched it before we started recording. Again, like you're saying, I understand, like I'm beginning to understand some of it, but again, it's still like, okay, where's this leading?
Jedi's Mission on Brenda and Character Dynamics
00:14:33
Speaker
Where and then where like you're saying some of the character choices. I wish I knew or understood just a little bit more Right. I like the We like the character development. Like you said we love that we love that here and that's what I wish we had just a little bit more ah because With again with with soul specifically, I think that's where some of my more head scratching comes from right and then Again, just the some motivations. I just don't under didn't understand. So we'll we'll get into it. But anything else andrew before we kind of get into the nuts and bolts of it? No, let's let's get into it. OK, so let's start. So we're going to kind of break it down. Like we've been the last few episodes is kind of going like section by section. So let's just start off with that cold open. So we go straight to ah the Jedi or on our on brand doing some research.
00:15:33
Speaker
Collecting samples being scientists and I kind of dig it I like it. I like it Calnaco with the metal detector Searching for gold coins. I don't know. I love it. I love it. I love it But right again, this is so now we're seeing it You know because you and I talked about it in previous episodes What what point of view are we going to get? When we come back to this ah You know to this event and we obviously said one of them we hope was the Jedi this was pretty much a Again, not all Jedi point of view, but we got it. We got kind of a lot of the things that were Missed or you know that we thought there'd be more there were more explanations to we got it so we're following kind of a
00:16:26
Speaker
they like theyre their, points of view and where and why they were here. So they even talk about that during this whole cold open, right? And Dara and Sol talk about it. um And this is, we get to, you know, the cold open ends where we see Sol finding Osha in May, right? And then there's a lot, there's some deep references, hyperspace, disaster, vergence, which you have been who and on for a long, long time, way, way before I was or anything. So again, you talk about me being an insider. You're definitely an insider on that one. wow So let's, so let's talk about this cold open section and, uh, give me your thoughts, opinions, anything stand out to you that you want to bring up what you got. A lot happened. Right. I was surprised.
00:17:26
Speaker
ah You see them, you know collecting moss putting things in and mechanical things after a couple watches I was like, why don't they just sit there and meditate and use the force? They're trying to be scientists apparently I don't know maybe they again, maybe that's how Again, one of maybe one of the things is how do you? How do you detect a virgins? Right by science apparently not by the force. I like this and then hearing about what their mission is, it makes me kind of think like they're not important Jedi or they're kind of, you know, the- It's interesting, and interesting, interesting, yeah. They're mid-Jedi.
00:18:08
Speaker
there
00:18:11
Speaker
They're like, we need to find out what's going on, on Brenda. Who can we send? And they're like, No, no, one no, no. ah oh it wasn't It wasn't a Yoda mission. Let's just say that. Yeah. It wasn't a Vernestra mission, I guess. Right, right. That's a good point. Good point. ah in In all of this, you get to see that Torben is not like Jackie, right? he's ah He is a struggling padawan who is homesick and
00:18:48
Speaker
soul tries to ah console him. He, he, he don't mean to do that. It's a great pun. It's a great pun. By giving him more information and telling him that they are here to detect a, there was a virgins in the force. And Daris says a hundred years ago, this planet was cataloged as lifeless. because of, uh, the great hyperspace, uh, disasters. So Brenda was in the path of all that shrapnel that broke off in, in devastated planets in the, that had salt area. And soul says that they are on a noble mission and
00:19:33
Speaker
It kind of feels like he's trying to sell it to Torben. He later says. And himself. And and ian himself. Right. As well too.
00:19:44
Speaker
It was just, I don't know. so And Dara takes him off to the side and was swole off to the side and says like, Hey, I don't give him all the answers. I give him what information he needs so that he can seek out the answers for himself, ah which to me is definitely a great way to teach somebody because if you just you know download data into somebody, they're only going to retain so much. it's It's the act of finding out for yourself and the act of doing it yourself that um allows you to find importance so in what you're doing or
00:20:26
Speaker
or learn better, then there's this little back and forth about maybe this is why you don't have a padawan soul. And i that was interesting, right? And I wanted to explore that more. I wanted to see the process of soul going through trying to find a padawan, trying to connect with someone, Whereas, was there a moment where he was presented with, with, um, younglings and they wanted him to choose a pair one. He just didn't connect with them. I would have really loved to been able to see that. It also seemed a little bit more, something more besides.
Soul's Internal Conflict and Mysterious Ceremony
00:21:09
Speaker
This is why I have one and you don't, which seems to like a low blow as well too, but true.
00:21:17
Speaker
So like, you got to think like, is that something that, that soul's holding in, in the back of his head? Like this want this need, this desire to have a padawan to be able to teach someone's cause he seems so eager to teach and explain things to Torben. So. And i and went later on, we see that this this desire to have a padawan completely consumes him and clouds his judgment and is the the catalyst that sets all of this into motion. And a lot of things like set all this into motion. Everybody like had a part in it. It was very interesting. But then you see him see the girls and he also...
00:22:04
Speaker
sees, I don't know, before the cold open, did he see ah Mother Coral? Yeah, so at the very so the very end, before, at the very end of the cold open, we see him see the twins and then we see Mother Coral come up and you know say what we saw in the previous episode when we were on Brenda, but for telling them that they shouldn't be by themselves, she just told them before, all that stuff. Right, and then that's when we go, back to soul and then write the cold with the nuns. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he saw Mother Coro and then we see him trying to... Contact Andara. Right. And say, you know, we're not alone as they thought. And they've been there and that's the thing for me. So they've been there for like seven weeks h and they had fine found nothing.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah. Must be a huge planet. Right. And not to like, not to sense anything. Did that bother you at all? Or no, you're like, no, like I can, I can believe that. it did No, it didn't bother me. It actually made me feel better about episode three because when Mother Anastasia calls them out, like ah the all-knowing Jedi aren't aware of their surroundings. i was like that was Remember I said I was like, I can't believe the Jedi were lying. like i I've never seen that before. But to see that they won,
00:23:28
Speaker
The Jedi Council didn't know about the Coven. They didn't send them there to investigate them and to, you know, fix some of their their wrongdoings, quotations. they were we speculated we right We speculated that that's probably why they were sent there, but they weren't. So that information allowed me to come to terms with things that happened in the third episode, which I think was another the point of this episode was to fill in the blanks. Right. and I mean, right. that I think a lot of this was to finally put all the pieces together and have a full picture, right? So yeah, I again, I really liked, again, I liked how we see the Jedi kind of just
00:24:18
Speaker
Not, you know, I guess being Jedi like doing missions, right? Like, yeah, they're, they're out here. Something, you know, happened a hundred years ago and this planet was said to be uninhabitable, but then somehow years later it is. Right. And they were trying to see what happened. And then they believe, like you like you said, this virgins is the cause of it. Right. So yeah i I don't mind it. We know, like, like, you and I, you know, again, we speculated that maybe it's because the council maybe sent them there for a certain reason, but no, they were sent there because of this abnormal abnormality that.
00:25:05
Speaker
that this planet was you know giving off, right? Yeah, the well planet was lifeless, now all of a sudden it's thriving, and right they expect that it's a virgin. So of a virgin can be a lot of things, but it's a concentration of of force energy that can create life or create but i don't know whatever. and I think creating life is what they were really harping on, at least. yeah And when I think of a virgin, I immediately think of Qui-Gon telling the council that he believes that the creation of Anakin was because of ah a virgin's in the voice and Force. right And even Master Yoda's like a virgin's.
00:26:00
Speaker
like are you Are you kidding me? like No way. so That's why I thought initially whatever happened with the girls had to be concentrated energy with the force. It had to have been something so strong to where it like created this this momentous ah thing. and And that's just like, that's how I describe ah like a virgins in Star Wars. Like there's a moment where the force like answers back and that's a virgins to me. Right. And you and I have talked about that. I mean, go back to like last Jedi with Rey.
00:26:44
Speaker
And even with the sequel trilogy overall, we, you and I always talked about how we felt that Rey was a vessel of the force. Obviously we know now that she, well, not, I mean, not necessarily not, I mean, her father was a creation of Palpatine, but she was maybe a somewhat of a virgins. Yeah. In answer to Ben Solo, right? Right. You and I have talked, we've we've had that conversation. So yeah, I love this idea that the virgins is kind of what the mission was about and what they were searching for, right? Because it could
00:27:27
Speaker
as soul was kind of telling Torben, like, this could be huge. If this is what it was, we could learn from it. Right. So again, the mission as noble as soul wanted to you know make it, it might not sound all like the best thing ever, but it is important for sure. Right. So I loved all that. And I did, I did, you talked about the soul and Indira conversation. I'd liked it. It was interesting. Like you're saying, I, we just, it's just the small layer that we get with soul, like.
00:28:06
Speaker
he right he has we don't know has he had a padawan is he tried right i would love to have just gotten a little bit more with that because i think that would have helped me with this whole attachment of him wanting a padawan or was he desiring to have one like you just i guess i just didn't
00:28:31
Speaker
Get the feeling one way or the other was like was he you know, were like you're saying was were they trying to Get him a panel one and just wasn't working out But he like his desire was always there to have one like it just felt Not complete does that make sense? Like I just wanted more and I I also think like in my head cannon maybe before I soul was taken by the Jedi. Maybe he also had the same feelings that OSHA did and and his family didn't want him to go and he had to speak up so that he would be able to go or demonstrate the force in some ways so that they were convinced like there needed to be
00:29:17
Speaker
more story to why soul felt that way. Just a little more background. I would have loved it, right? i can i can i get I mean, I can kind of get the... the The justification, I guess, a little bit, but it still is one of those things that I like scratch my head and like, OK, I'm I'm taking it for what it is. Right. He is a a is he a Jedi Knight at this time? I assume I don't know if he's not. Yeah, she's not calling a master. yeah Right. So he's a knight. So.
00:29:49
Speaker
Is he kind of maybe still young and brash at this time maybe right yeah right well right but like it like is that why he is not like again. What is the why has he not gonna pan one yet. Is it purposeful, right? is there Are the Jedi Council, do they know? having one Right, do they know he's not ready? But he's forcing it upon himself to have one because it's like you're saying, this desire to have one too, like where's this stem from? Is it just because he's a Jedi Knight and that's like the next step and he wants to take that next step? Like I would have loved just a little bit more like you're saying, just a little bit more with him. but
00:30:32
Speaker
I like this conversation, though, with Dara, because she was like, you know, you're basically unbalanced and disturbed. You're kind of projecting your feelings onto Torbin a little bit. She's not right. No, right. And Dara. I'm way on, you know, her side now. I will. After all this. Right. I mean, because again, with her, we are were getting way more insight with her. And that's one very big I loved it. in this episode was the entire stuff which we'll keep talking about but I love that character now loved and I love that ah her character and I hope we get I hope we get a background story of her because I think she's fascinating right because she is a very prototypical Jedi right like you mentioned her childing soul like just don't give the answer you got to let
00:31:27
Speaker
him figure it out himself but regarding Torben, right?
Rational vs. Impulsive Approaches in the Jedi Mission
00:31:31
Speaker
Like she wants him to use the resources that he has and make those decisions or like learn from them, right? Just don't give him the answer, right? So I, again, I like that, that that little conversation between them is great. And then again, the we talked about the mention of the hyperspace is answered. That's straight from the higher public books, which is so cool. Awesome. Right. Right. Right. Right. So yeah. And then again, the cold, it ends with soul finding them, uh, finding the twins and everything. And then we're right into it. So with the next section, so this is going to be basically so it goes back to the camp.
00:32:15
Speaker
because he was trying to communicate with Indara. But yeah, what what do you got, Ansh? Before that, he goes to the fortress. He climbs up a wall. yeah He sees Mother Anasaya using the force and and pushing the girls. And then he also sees ah the rest of the coven doing some strange chant in front of a big hole, right? So right in soul's mind, something doesn't seem right. and What's tough about this as like a viewer because you know, they're not in trouble, but he truly believes they are in trouble. But as a viewer, you're like, they're not like, I wish you could just see, but he doesn't get to see. So it's, it's really hard for the viewer to put themselves in his shoes because we know the full story. Right. And no I'm glad you reminded me that before that, that's when he infiltrated the,
00:33:12
Speaker
The village right here time yeah fortress he climbs he climbs the mountain and then Yeah, it's kind of cool from the one scene So he's looking down and he sees may and OSHA like practicing with mother saya And then that's when that like a noise is made and that's when mother coral turned round We see that from their side from the previous episode so again a lot of cool stuff in that regards with this episode where they're using Same reference points, but just in different views, you know to give us the full context and then right so He witnesses all of this Right. He's he believes just like you said he believes these girls are like in trouble So he goes back and he's telling and are on everybody like listen We're not alone. There's these two girls something's going on and I, you know, his initial thing was that they do not treat the girls like children, right? He says that. And I don't know how, like, again, as viewers, like you're saying, we know that's probably, that's not really the case. So to me, again, this is the whole like, soul's kind of motives are very misguided, right? And he really jumps to,
00:34:37
Speaker
really big conclusions. But it's what he sees. Right. um Right. He sees Mother Coral scolding them. He sees Mother Anasea pushing them down and yelling at them. He he he hears about a ceremony. you know He sees a big hole that they might get pushed down. Right. No. So I mean, right. From his point of view, it's not good. It's not looking good. No, he's not good. Right. So yeah again, you understand the motives misguided as they are. Right. But they come off as selfish. Yes. think right They do. They come off as selfish when they bring up that
00:35:17
Speaker
when When they bring up that point of, and i maybe it happens later, when he says that he feels a connection with Mei, then it turns everything. He's no longer looking after the safety ah of the twins because he only feels a connection with one of them. and which is strange and not strange. The fact that about it will it's not both of them, but. um remember Yeah, that's later. So that's after they, yeah that's yeah but but still. So it's interesting. Yeah, it is interesting. And then like when he reports back, they start talking about how it it it's a force cult and I was like, force cult, do those exist? Like are there, are there yeah around the world that utilize a force? And yeah, they're around the world.
00:36:03
Speaker
around the galaxy. But yeah, there there actually are. There's like a church of the force and and stuff like that. People that aren't- Nightsisters different. Which coming? Nightsisters. The mention of the Nightsisters was freaking awesome. And then you kind of get this feeling that they know of the Nightsisters, they know that they're witches, they know that they use the Force in different ways, and the Jedi are aren't out seeking them and trying to destroy them. So the Jedi aren't out to control how the Force is used in this moment at all.
00:36:41
Speaker
because they know of the Nightsisters and they allow of how they use it, right? they've They've researched that, they know that they don't have children or whatever and whatever. and Yeah, because Andara was saying something like they they don't teach the younglings or whatever. how I can't remember how she said it exactly, but right. like The Nightsisters don't have younglings. that They're not like a paddle like Yeah, it's there's not that high i don't have to right in their in their crew. Right. Right. Right. And they're not like being taught or right being like these Padawan to master. There's not that type of connection with the Nightsisters. But I mean, again, Andara, the most rational person out of this freaking group.
00:37:29
Speaker
yeah Like if they just listen to her, just listen to her, none of this goes down kids. I'm gonna be real frank about it. None of this goes down. If you just listen to Indara, the master of this entire crew. Right. she She wants to contact the council for guidance. And what really bothers me about the soul and our conversations going forward is when she says something, soul's like, yeah, but he'd like, yeah, but her every time.
00:38:00
Speaker
And that like really triggers me when a woman says something and a man's like, no, like it really... I have a better way. It drives me nuts. So in this moment, I was like, God, soul. like i I was really rooting for you, but you're not helping yourself right now. like This is really hard for me. right listen This is really hard for me. And I wonder if a lot of this... And I'm just kind of maybe thinking this to myself, too, is that we see what he becomes, like we see the person he becomes after this. Exactly. So it's it's kind of almost like the has maybe a terrible it's not a one to one, but like we see Vader, but then we learn who Anakin really was.
00:38:51
Speaker
Right. So it's like we see soul as a kind of wise, wise Jedi master, but now we're seeing him as this brash Jedi Knight. And I, and I want to bring this up later too, because there's a moment in time where you can actually see the change in him. And yeah wellll yeah ten and know you're exactly right. Like he is the complete opposite of what we knew him to be from the beginning. So it is, it's like whiplash. It's really hard to come to terms with it.
00:39:29
Speaker
Right, because we're so we have seen him in a different light. And now we're really, again, getting his younger version. And you and I have talked about that how many times about, you know, when we see younger characters and you eat again, Anakin, you know, right. How much they, you know, we're just these. teenager or young, young Jedi knights or young Padawans and just, you know, their thought processes were different. Right. And then you grow just like Andara has talked about. Right. They had to learn and grow and understand to become these better Jedi that they become later on.
00:40:15
Speaker
So it's this, again, it's the same journey, right? It's just the story, I think just for me, how it has been presented was just like you're saying, maybe it was too too quick or just not enough information, right? So i yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things where I'm just like, okay, I get it, like I understand it, but it's just, it's hard. Like you said, it's hard to accept when you see a character in one instance be like this very wise Jedi and then you see him as this young like rash person you're like dude what are you doing like right have you not learned but again that's very again we have to just remember that it's very normal in Star Wars right it's it's we've seen this like a bunch of times so we have to just again it's just hard and maybe it's just
00:41:13
Speaker
But I think for me, I think some of it still stems from just how it was presented for sure. Right. So they, again, we get to the point where now they are there at the bait, like at the um fortress before the ceremony. Right. So now we're, we're still in the Jedi perspective, obviously. And. They can't access the lift, so then Andara tells Killnaka to slice it, which is cool. A nice little, it's a great reference, obviously, right? When you hack in Star Wars, you call it's called slicing. So I love that. But did you, was this, again, is, I was okay with it, but I'm like, man, they really are just intruding and trespassing. like Like, it's, you know, okay. Yeah.
00:42:05
Speaker
But, I don't know. And Dara's like, I want to go in alone. Right. And again, rational one here. She is the most rational one. Her mother, Mother Anasaya, if it was just those two, they kind of, they probably would have worked this out in like five minutes. Yeah, it's like there are catalysts on each side, um you know, mother coral, torbin and soul. And it's unfortunate that they they're heightened, like stress and anxiety is what creates like this tragedy that happens. So like,
00:42:42
Speaker
Indara's like, I want to go in alone. And they're like, nope, we should go in as a group. And she was like honey right yes she's like, they'll take it as a threat. And Soil's like, there are 50 of them. And Indara's like, with two two children. like Doesn't that sound weird? like let's Let's not be rational. yeah
00:43:06
Speaker
And then Soil says, we must go on in as a team. And then I think that's a moment where Indara's thought process of teaching comes in, right? She doesn't want to tell them, no, I'm going in, you're staying here. She allows their choice to happen so that they can learn their own lesson. Granted, I don't think she knew that this would Escalate how it did and then all this would happen. But I think in that moment, she was like, I'm fine. We'll see. You know, let's let's all go in together. Right. Right. I mean, in two souls defense, I guess. I mean, you see where he's coming from. Sure. Like, right. There's 50 of you. And then there'd be one of you. They have yeah power one of you. Right.
00:43:59
Speaker
That's that's I don't like those odds. You shouldn't go in alone. He's not wrong But I and I I'm a hundred percent with you on this one engine. I didn't think about that where and Dara I think you're right. She was teaching them like, okay, we'll do it your way But let's let's learn. Let's see what you learn from this then right and We see that whole kind of conversation again, right? With them, uh, intruding on the Ascension ceremony. Right. And then we get this whole Anna, uh, mother and a Santa and Torbin stuff, which was pretty cool. Probably the best scene. Yeah. In this show. I agree. I love it. It was exactly kind of what I expected, you know,
00:44:50
Speaker
you're in the the darkness part of his mind. Torben, or whoever plays Torben, I'm sorry, I don't know his name, just a phenomenal performance like in the, this part, the tears in his eyes, the, you can see it in his face that he is trying to fortify his mind and, and not allow him to be swayed a certain way. And mother Anna say it just, you know, dominates with her, with her power. ray on it right It is so, it's such a great scene.
00:45:24
Speaker
And you can't blame her for it, right? These Jedi came into her home and um are looking for her children. And she knows that Jedi take children, and she doesn't want her children to go. So she goes after the most vulnerable, which was Torben. And the the display of it, how they how they edit it, directed it, the blocking, all of it was dope. No, yeah, this was one of the better scenes in this episode. 100%. Like it's like he was there, but he wasn't there. Right. Like he was just hearing mother and a say, uh, and then there was that kind of quick shot of him, like faintly hearing their conversation, but she was still like in his mind. Right. And then she tells him the Neil.
00:46:14
Speaker
And that's when again, he meals in like, uh, in front of everybody. And that's what I think. And that's where and Dara was like, okay, we got to get out of here, obviously, because I think in the previous episode, again, we don't really, I mean, we see that, but now like the reactions like make more sense. Right. Like, so.
00:46:40
Speaker
In the initial episode, like when Indara comes in and it felt like at that time, like they were just like kind of pushing their Jedi. you know, Jedi, you know, Jedi-ness on them, like, hey, we're here, we can get, you know, we can do what we want. That wasn't the right, what we find out, that wasn't the case. She didn't want this to happen in the first place, right? So then when her padawan is like down and out and she's like, okay, well, we got to go, this is time to bail. And, you know, she's like, well, you know, as you know,
00:47:16
Speaker
We are allowed to train and seek padawans with your permission, right? So that wasn't even, again, initially I, when that first episode, the previous episode with this event, you could have took in what Andara said as like a slap in the face. But now I take it as she was like, hey, with your permission, ah we're in your house, let right let's work you know work with us. So again, Andara was the most rational person with the mother Anasaya and the two most rational people. And the fact that her padawan was taken over and she didn't like lose her cool. She didn't draw her lightsaber. She used what soul somewhat brought up like, okay, let me buy some time and say, can we please test your kids later? And with your permission, right? With your permission. We're gone.
00:48:12
Speaker
So right, like I'm i'm loving Indara right now. Right? Team Indara, 100%. I'm with her. She's making the most sense, right? So then we go back to the next section is when they leave that encounter and now they're talking on the ship about what just what they just saw, right? And this is where, again, this is just one of the things where Sol starts talking about that connection with Osha. It just, again, feels out of left field for me, my initial watch. Yeah, it's almost like it could have been left out, right? If they could have just kept him being concerned with the safety of these force using ability children, because he's seen them use the force. Under the Bunta tree, he saw them use the force.
00:49:09
Speaker
But then to like try to sell it as saying, I have a connection with this kid, it came out of nowhere. and felt It felt weird. I got to admit, I have to admit. That's serious too. like i'm I'm with you on that. What is this this older man saying he connects with this young child? That's weird. Felt a little weird. Felt a little weird. Yeah. Felt a little weird. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. So again, we so him and Dara talk about it. And like you said, she brings up you know this idea of, OK, let's we'll test them for sure. I want to go back to that real quick. He says he um he says that she's meant to be his padawan. Right. Like, what did he see? What did he feel? What was in his mind in that moment? Did he have a force vision of him training?
00:50:04
Speaker
Osha as a padawan like it came out of nowhere and it really this show really would have benefited from exploring that in ah in an episode of His need for a padawan how he connected with OSHA when that actually happened, right? When did he connect with OSHA? Did she connect with him? Like it's so um Weird no it is I understand agree it's just it's one of those things I was like okay but I guess that's just how they have to explain it is just like he had this gut instinct right that she was supposed to be his padawan and it just didn't come off I think the way maybe they
00:50:53
Speaker
were hoping it would or, yeah you know, like it just came off very, very weird. It came off as Jedi creepy. yeah you know yeah heard oh did Trying to get away from Jedi or taking children away from their families. And we feel kind of at peace when Endara's like comes in and she's very respectful about it. And then we go right back to soul being selfish about it. And it's like, oh, right. And the name Dara even says, like, don't confuse what um OSHA wants with what you want. Right. Because he was taught because he's basically I think going off of like when he asked her when they're at the fortress, like, do you want to
00:51:38
Speaker
Like, do you want to be a Jedi or whatever? Do you want to see if you can become a Jedi? Whatever his question was, right? When they were all
Testing the Twins' Force Abilities and Revelations
00:51:45
Speaker
there. Yeah. He's like, look at my lightsaber. Weird. That was weird too. Right. And i was that was in the episode, then that previous episode. In episode three, I was hoping he would kind of get exonerated from that creepiness of, hey, come look at my lightsaber. I have candy in the truck. But right instead, you still get these these Creep vibes from him and it sucks because you know that is not him Right what you see like later him as a teacher to Jackie with Jackie. Oh my god. It's a night and what Jackie is it To see so like this is so hard And again, maybe maybe this is part of the story maybe this is again what Part of what they're want to tell us is that
00:52:35
Speaker
Again, some, the Jedi are flawed, right? And all this, I don't know. But yeah, this is, this was one of those things where, again, even upon my second watch, I could get it like i got like, okay, I get that. He's worried about the children's safety. I can buy that. Like, like you're saying, if that was just more of the case, but then he specifically points out OSHA, right? And again, we see we see that in this episode a little bit as far as that that point of view of when he, like you said, when he's like asked her, do you want to, you know do you want to see this? And then ask him about the Jedi. Like even in that episode, I was like, okay. But again, I wish they would have explored like you're saying.
00:53:26
Speaker
Where was that? Where and when was that connection made? just Just give me a little bit. I'm not asking for a lot, right? We're not asking for a whole backstory, but like, make it make a little bit more sense and less creepy. is that You know what I'm saying? Like, Yeah, I just like what where when was the point at what point was he like? Okay OSHA, right? Was it just because? She was one that came up to him. Like it's just it was just it just comes off very weird Unfortunately, right because like you're saying it's what what we know soul becomes It just doesn't just doesn't add up, ah right? So but then again
00:54:15
Speaker
he's trying to sell this hard to Andara, right? And then she's like, all right, well, you know, you bought us time. She's like, I'll give you that. You bought us time with wanting to ask to train, right? That's kind of that with that idea. So, you know, we get, so now we see the whole, Testing from inside the ship now right with May 1st, so we see that right and again She's very quick on her answers right I mean at one point he was like the image didn't even come up so that's when they kind of realize that
00:54:59
Speaker
that you know they are being told to fail this test 100%. But I do, again, and Dara, again, freaking and Dara, team and Dara here for me, she's asking me these really great questions of like, You know, so what, what is this, what is this ascension? You know, like basically like how, how do you feel about it? You know, she brings up the, like the marking and she makes it sound like it's very. Yeah. She tells her it's beautiful. Right. And then even, I think we, before, before even the test, this testing portion, I think, um, in the scene before that.
00:55:41
Speaker
And Dara and soul were talking and they talked about the mark, right? Because that was a whole thing with, with, with soul, was that part of it? Because maybe did he feel that may was already like a lost cause because she was already marked or she was protected because she was marked and OSHA wasn't. So, right. So is that why like, again, like, okay, maybe just explain, if that's the reason, maybe just, it's, I dunno, make it more noticeable that that's why, right? Because it's just, how it's being presented is that he feels that this, connection like this deep connection with Osha, right, is is why.
00:56:25
Speaker
And it is right. And for whatever reason, this connection that he feels like he has with Osha in that he she should be his padawan. Right. And then again, and Dara is trying to be like, dude, let's slow down. Right. And then with this whole and then he brings up that that's when he brings up the whole marking. Like, you know, one child's always marked. But then again, so, you know, going back to the testing with May, so Dara's asking her all these questions, right? And May's like giving them answers, but not giving too much away. Right? And then she leaves. And then that's when, again, a little bit weird, maybe, I don't know, but that's when him, so then,
00:57:15
Speaker
who, um, soul brings up to Andara. He's like, okay, let's try something to different with OSHA. Yeah. Right. Let's do a different approach, which she agreed with. Right. Again, rat fell right. Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. But again, it just comes off as a little creepy that again, knowing that it's OSHA, he's like, well, let's try something different with her. Yeah. And the, What would have been nice is maybe some backstory about soul soul's feelings around like courage and telling the truth, right? This has to be something from his past that he feels a connection to. And that's why maybe his family told him he should lie and not and not tell anybody that he was could use the force. So more backstory would have would have been nice.
00:58:09
Speaker
I agree with you. I felt like it did come off as creepy even in in episode three and I couldn't believe that Indara was allowing him to change the way that they were tested. And then I was also thinking just random Jedi can test Padawans, like they don't have to be tested by a master or tested by someone specific and they you don't have to follow. It's kind of like when you interview someone, you have to make sure that you ask everybody the exact same question. So there's no bias around the interview process. So the fact that Indara allowed him to change the process, I was like, you can't do that. like You have to keep it you know set one way so that there is no bias behind it. And going back to May and Indara talking, May tells them about the ascension and then misquotes her mother and says that um that they have to face their fear and they'll be sacrificed. like I am completely like
00:59:18
Speaker
you know, not saying that exactly the way that Mei said, but it is interesting that what she does say is not what she the mother said as well too. So here we are again, just putting in another droplet into Sol's head that they they are in danger. and they are going to be hurt. And the Jedi are there to protect. And we must protect these... for It goes back and forth. We must protect Osha. We must must protect these girls. You know, it does go back and forth. What bothers me is that Sol's like, oh, Osha passed the test. She needs to be a Jedi. Not saying that like, Mei passed as well too. You can tell that she had forced capabilities by knowing the wrong answer.
01:00:02
Speaker
That that dis displays her her capabilities as well, too. so that whole it was It was awesome to see another point of view around it, and it was yeah also to see the conversation that Mae had with them, because you kind of hear a whisper of it in the episode before when Mae walks onto Sol's ship for after they come off of Kofar. so
01:00:27
Speaker
I like at this moment in this episode, I am beyond frustrated with soul. And I can see and obviously we know a tragedy happens. And I was hoping that the Jedi were not going to be involved or the reason for that tragedy, but it's not looking good at this moment. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? It's not good. It's not good at all. Okay, so now we're post testing May and OSHA now. And yeah, we kind of got it confirmed that both, I mean, we knew Torbin took OSHA's blood. Torbin took May's blood too. So now the whole thing is that they're running and they want to test their blood to see what's going on, right? So they're kind of all waiting around sitting by a campfire, which, hey,
01:01:21
Speaker
not not gonna you know miss a good old campfire sit talk with the jedi and endara's waiting to to discuss this with the council oh 100 again the rational one is waiting for guidance right because she told them You know, she told Torben to run the blood and then she's going to reach out to the council and see what's going on. So now, and Dara comes to where Sol Kanaka and Torben are, and she basically says, the council says, no, we have already interfered enough. We've already interfered an enough. Yeah. Like those are her words. We interfered enough. She truly talked to the council. Oh, I do. Yeah, I do.
01:02:05
Speaker
Yeah. Do you? I go back and forth on it. I mean, I never, I mean, I never thought about that. Maybe she didn't. But that actually, now that you bring that up and that would explain a lot. Yeah. Because if she, if she would have told the council, they might have been. a little more of a heads up and then their side of the story. Yeah. Might've not matched up with what they were already told. Yeah. So no that's a good point. I never, I actually never considered that, that she didn't, that she didn't talk to the council. Hmm. I mean, and then what happens later in this episode, which leads me to leave, to believe like she,
01:02:53
Speaker
wants to hide what happened from the council, which meet that makes me believe she never talked to them. Yeah, no, that that would add up. Yeah, I know I'm 100% with you now. like Yeah, maybe maybe she didn't. Maybe she didn't. I just assumed that she did, but- Maybe she didn't, but honestly, it's the right decision. Shouldn't go back there. Let's continue our research and be done with it. Right. So she was, again, whether she talked to them or not, and She was right in saying, basically, we have gone far enough. We're not, you know, we're not going to interfere anymore. But then Torben gets the results, right? But right before that, Torben says, so are we going back to Coruscant? And she's like, no. And that, to me... That triggers him.
01:03:44
Speaker
that really triggers him it heightens his stress he can't believe that all this is going on and we're still not going to go back home and again that his whole motivation about going back to Coruscant i it's one of those things where okay homesick i get it but like what Like again, maybe explain that a little more. Right. Like that. Maybe like we did hear Anna say, uh, say that he was, his parents were poppers, right? And he lived on a planet. I don't know anything about that planet, but to me, I would like to believe that he.
01:04:26
Speaker
did not have the greatest life before he was picked up by the Jedi. And then when he was, it was life changing. right And he finally actually felt at home being there than anywhere else. Maybe what they're doing right now is a little bit too reminiscent of what he did prior to becoming a ah a youngling. So If we could have had a Torben episode, it was just a little more exposition of what would have done so much for this, this entire story. Yeah. Cause it, I can't remember who it might've been Laura Kelly from a force dose. I think if I'm not mistaken, I think she was making the connection of Torben with, um,
01:05:13
Speaker
Oh, the one, um, high republic character in, um, that like missed, uh, starts with an R. Do you know that we. Yeah. Riese Silas. Right. Was it Riese that wanted to go? Yeah. He liked, he liked being in the library. Right. Right. Right. Like, at least we, like, again, we understood the motivation, right? With like, we don't, I don't get, I get he wants to go back. What what is the motivation to go back? like What is he? Does he miss just the the frenzy like his other panel on friends?
01:05:53
Speaker
Does he like the library? like reset Like what's the motivation? Just give a, like just a small dialogue line of, you know, Oh, I wish we were going back because, or like whatever, just something a little bit more. Because right now all it seems like is he's a whiny kid right that can't hack it as a Jedi and he needs to Get that together. We'll have to go back to horse hunt for whatever reason. right like No, you don't get to go back because you miss a place. You're a Jedi. like Get over it, bro. like That's the like the Gen X part of me telling this Gen Z wimpy, please don't take this the wrong way. Get your crap together, bro. like You're doing and Jedi stuff. Be that. Right. so
01:06:43
Speaker
again just Would have loved a little bit more of just his motivations of wanting to go back. I can buy that he wants to go back. Yeah. But I like just. I give me just a little bit more like, OK, you're just telling me he wants to go back to Coruscite. OK, cool. That's great. But why that just that gives us, again, a deeper understanding of the choices that he's making, right? Because right now, like you're saying, it comes off as him just
01:07:16
Speaker
wanting to go back for whatever reason. And there's no like motivation, like there's no deeper motivation than just, I just, I don't want to be here anymore. Why can't you vibe like Kalnaka and like, you know, feel the, make the cooking. He's complaining about Kalnaka's cooking too. Like, come on. That was a funny scene. I like that a lot. Don't upset a Wookiee. Don't disrespect a Wookiee in their cooking. Yeah. But again, so he gets the results, right? ah And basically the results come back as, again, high M count, which we, again, kind of all expected, right?
Twins' Origins and Planet's Influence
01:07:57
Speaker
But with the twist, and this is, again, this is where I like this, the twist of them being basically the same person, but in two different, kind like, two different bodies,
01:08:12
Speaker
Right? Like the same, like how I it was understanding how Tobin was explaining is like, it's the results basically are showing they're the exact, like not even just identical, like the exact same person, but split into two. hu Like, you know, and that's interesting. I like that. And that's when, you know, souls like, well, then they had to have been basically, you're saying they they were artificially, created right so then that's when you know the whole idea of it's got to be this virgins right this is the proof and that's Tor again Torben's whole gotta get back to course on kicks in he's like all right well
01:08:58
Speaker
Uh, yeah, i'm going by and then soul has to chase after him, right? So again, so how'd you like to yeah, how'd you like the explanation of so this the symbionts they have a high midichlorian count they say mcon instead of midichlorian, maybe Whatever about right. I know. I know I agree. But when you read there's an article Um, that Leslie had landed after this episode and he, she talks about, she's like confirms that they are the same being split into two, which also means they are not as powerful by themselves as maybe Anakin would be, right? They, they did have this.
01:09:46
Speaker
force, virgins, conception, but it was also like an experiment that went wrong. It wasn't like the purpose of what they were trying, it wasn't the result of what they were trying to do. It was like, yeah, there's a virgins, let's try to use this over here and see if we can make ah a force a forced baby. And they were like, oh, it didn't really work out this time. We we we split them into another, not as powerful unless they're together. so That was confirmed by Leslie Hedlund. So that song too that they sing like, yeah I am one, we're two, but together is one. yeah Yeah. So that kind of puts you knowing that there are beings out there trying to create forced life like
01:10:40
Speaker
City or Palpatine wanted to do like Plagueis wanted to do I guess in like ten of us wanted to do and There are other Beings out there trying this and there are not being fully so successful, but it's happening So does that mean that? The Sith created Anakin. No, it doesn't I No, I'm not going down that hole. They're so separate. Go check my whatever episode it was when I went out my tangent.
01:11:16
Speaker
continue So the clarity around it isn't crystal clear, right? we're not you know we i He had to read an interview to to figure that out. you like Them just saying their symbionts are exact and they're an exact match. It wasn't enough information within the episode to know exactly what is going on with the girls, that which is frustrating to me. be But I don't know if it matters to the general audience and if it only ah ah matters to us nerds. I don't know. Right. But. That's kind of how it was explained by the showrunner. I like again, I. I feel like I understood it when he was when he was explaining it, so I'm like, OK, so they're basically the same like you're saying, the same person, but it's good to get that confirmed like you're saying.
01:12:07
Speaker
by Leslie. So again, this is the whole motivation. So of Torben wanting to get out. Right. And I wonder if a lot of it to again, thinking about his motivations and us needing more of an explanation. And maybe when he got, um, I mean, prior to him getting like possessed by mother and Isaiah, he was already talking about like, you know, wanting to go back to Coruscant, but I wonder with her interference or her, whatever mind stuff with him. I wonder if that really drove him more huh or was it just, again, just, I get just, just the, just her, you know, interfering with him and didn't really,
01:12:52
Speaker
like push him any further than he already was, I think youre i think it pushed him more over over the edge. I start to wonder, like maybe it's the planet, right? Maybe it's a good it's a good point maybe it's like the planet's like a horcrux and the more you're around it, the more clouded your judgment gets. and That's why it's affecting him first and then Sol and then later Andara. So that's kind of what I think about. Like this planet has dark side properties. It's got something, right? Whether it's dark side or just because of the covenant itself and their interactions with it.
01:13:34
Speaker
Right? Maybe that's causing the the bad juju, the bad vibes from it. Yeah. so But right before they find out the M count results, and Dara shows up and says, like the council says no, and Sol immediately like presses the fact that Osha passed. The issue, yep. Osha passed and Indara says don't alter this girl's destiny because you've formed an emotional attachment and I love that she says destiny because that's that was the title of episode three and now this episode is his choice and Indara tells him that he doesn't get to make that decision for them. He doesn't get to choose what happens to the these girls and
01:14:21
Speaker
And it's like, if you put the two episodes together, you have destiny and choice. And you have to really question like, was this all meant to happen? Or it was because someone made the wrong decision. And I like to think that in this moment, their judgment is all clouded and they are not making the correct choice, which I like to believe interferes with their destiny and none of this should have happened. ah You're 100%, I'm with you on all that. Because I think with with what she said to soul with the whole Destiny talk, it's it's ah that's a deep, that's a deep thing, right? Because it's not just like you say, it's not interfering with their life, or it's not just interfering with um
01:15:13
Speaker
their, you know, singular choice. She's talking about it's going to change the course of their whole future, right? She's thinking really big picture and she brings, you know, when she's bringing up destiny. So I, again, soul again, it frustrates me with all that. It really does. Like again, I'm, Yeah, in this moment, he keeps pushing that issue. This guy's a creep. Please stop. Right. Again, you get again, I some of it, I understand like he is worried about their safety, which that I get like he's because he keeps like you you you brought it up a little bit earlier, too. Like it kind of keeps going back to like OSHA and then like them together, like the safety of them. But but then he always, you know, but he brings OSHA into it. So and i and again, I think that gives
01:16:10
Speaker
what you're what you brought up earlier about, um, and Dara maybe not have talking to the council. I think that kind of proves it because she made, cause when she was seen talking to May during that testing, she brought up, I think Destiny didn't, or something like, like maybe that whole conversation kind of put that in perspective for her, right? Like these children have, a destiny, and we shouldn't be interfering with it, right? So I think that gives more credence to your idea that she didn't talk to the council. I really do. I'm i'm kind of more on board with that idea than that she actually did, for sure. i i i
01:16:58
Speaker
I think that all really tracks well for, especially when she brings up this whole Destiny talk because of it kind of stemming from what May was taughtla talking about, right? That they were, you know, according to Mother Anasaya, they were, you know, to lead the coven, right? So they had a purpose. And maybe that's what, you know, maybe Andara is thinking in this moment, right? That their purpose is to lead this coven. And we shouldn't interfere with that. at all, but they do. Because for whatever reason, Stole and Torbin are hell bent to screw everything up. And then they're off and running to the fortress. Yeah, they're just escalating this. And so when the M count comes up and Torbin knows all this information, right? He knows about the symbionts. Again, it's making me think, man, I wish we knew a little bit about more about Torbin and how he knows this stuff.
01:17:54
Speaker
And then Sol immediately asks like if the twins were artificially created. And Endara says, maybe tapping into a power dense enough to split one consciousness into two bodies. And then, like I said, Hedwig confirmed that the girls are one being split into two. but I think that's a great concept. I like this. Yeah. Again, deep lore concept. I love this stuff. and Soul says only a virgins could create that type of power. So now it seems that the girls were experimental and not intentional, as we all kind of thought that they were before.
01:18:30
Speaker
And then that's that's what I like. That conversation was so fast. It was so freaking fast. Would have loved to kept it there for a little bit longer. And I was like, and then Torben just runs off and I'm like, what the heck? heck is going on. And it was just so fast. And it wasn't like this. We want to give the audience anxiety. We want to have them feel the way they're feeling this moment. Maybe it was, but to me, it needed a little bit of breathing room. Yeah.
01:19:06
Speaker
No, I 100% agree, because it just felt like, oh, OK, so they are aversions. Like, it was just boom, boom, boom, boom. Like, yeah, they're artificially creative. They're aversions. They're split in. They're one split into two. Like, how did they come to those conclusions so quickly? Right. No, true. And I agree. Maybe again, this is where it would have benefited a little bit more of a breathing room and more exposition and just explanation of what's what's going on. Again, I get where they gotta get from A to B, right? I mean, we gotta get to the point of where we get to, right? Where they're at the fortress and we see their side of everything. but
01:19:45
Speaker
Yeah, again, and I agree. Again, I like it. I like what they were presenting, right? yeah This whole idea of the coven artificially experiment, right? Not purposefully created, right? But they experimented with this idea and then that is what what came of it are the twins, right? That's freaking fascinating and that could Changed a lot of things within the Star Wars lore, right? Like that's huge stuff and I that is one of the major like kudos that I can give to the shows that it has been very good in that respect as far as bringing some really cool and new fresh takes on On the lore itself on force itself agreed. I love it. Like this is good stuff Right, but I agree a little bit fast. I again I get it but like again on the second watch I was like okay like I get that like Torben's in a hurry he wants to get out of here like you know he even says like you know he's kind of worried about their safety too right all of a sudden like Torben kind of mentions that I thought like
01:20:57
Speaker
Oh, you know, yeah, they're, you know, with that evidence, we can prove it. He says something about the women. Hang on, I wrote it down somewhere. Like, this they're dangerous. Yeah, those women are dangerous. Right, right. So, which again i can again, I can buy that line because of what he went through, right? With Mother Anasaya. Yeah. He's just assuming that they all are all capable of that. And maybe that's true. We don't know. And I also like to think that Mother Anasaya is still in his head. Yeah, see, that's a good point. I wouldn't disagree with that. Or whatever happened, whatever she did to him is very, like we were talking about, it's lingering or like yeah it has messed him up. Yeah. Kind of like how you see what happened to Kalnaka, right? When he's in Kofar, he's yeah drawing symbols. hes So there's like a residual effect of them infesting your mind. And I then i've think Torgo wants to be free of that.
01:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, I was gonna yeah, i maybe we'll talk about that maybe a little bit more, but yeah, I agree because So we get to the point where they're at the fortress right soul and Torben climb the mountain because before all that Right, we get to see the little interaction of OSHA and and mother and say before she chose to want to be a Jedi, right? I think we see The kind of aftermath of coral taking may yeah and like pushing her she pushes made anger right so again, we we kind of talked about that a little bit previously we were like Was may you know that this could been a possibility that she something like pushed her to get to this point of
01:22:42
Speaker
the anger where she was, right? Anger at her sister, right? And now we know it was Mother Coral, right? Kind of pushing her and like, hey, you want to stop it, use what we have taught you and stop it. Yeah, and and telling the coven to like arm themselves. I mean she escalated it quickly. She went from zero to 60 real quick. yeah Yeah, real fast. Yeah. Yeah. So again, even even May, May like destroyed the ah panel so no one can get in or out. That was nuts. But then again, you get that really kind of quick scene of Mother and Santa talking to like the
01:23:22
Speaker
the council or the other leaders. Yeah, the right. Of the coven to discuss OSHA's request, right? And before, I don't know, what we didn't, she wasn't really able to, I mean, they were discussing it in her argument, basically against what everybody else was telling mother Anastasia. They were like, no, we can't let her go. Right, but Mother Anne say it was, i obviously was going to let Osha go. Right, but before, ah again, maybe.
01:23:55
Speaker
Would you have liked to have seen that scene a little bit more because it felt like we kind of left it at like There wasn't a final decision, but mother saying was definitely leaning and she tells soul later That I was gonna let her go. Mm-hmm, right? But yeah when she says I choose mother you immediately assume that she's She's gonna let them go like she's not letting OSHA go right selfishly because the coven is afraid that if they leave Something will happen to them which I want to know more about that what What is the sim? What is what do the twins symbolize? To the coven like when they were created what what is the after effect of that? what is the purpose of the twins down just to lead them or To to do something else that they're so invested in that they want to keep them there as well, too That just is not explored whatsoever and that again
01:24:55
Speaker
It was like, I wish we could have spent a little bit more time with that. And maybe that I feel like that will maybe in the next episode, get a little more explored. Hopefully I do. I do. in lot my reason explore Well, oh yeah, I mean, at the end, maybe I'll give it my reasons of how that will be, but I do believe. like maybe their purpose or whatever we'll get, like that we'll get explained a little bit more. Cause I feel like that's a very big thread. It's not one of the smaller threads in the show. That's a ah big thread as obviously the twins, their purpose, why they were, you know, why they were creating everything.
01:25:33
Speaker
So, okay, so we get to the point where obviously, Sol and Torbin are in the courtyard, Mother Coral is before that. Because i I didn't notice this until I watched it again last night. So when Sol and Torbin like arrived there and Torbin says that the door is locked, Sol reaches out through the forest and he senses May telling OSHA that she can't go and they're stuck there now. That's exactly what hears You can't go and when you're stuck here now, so he Cuts off his connection from whatever he was just doing and all he has in his mind is that the girls are trapped here I have to save them seeing was that the connection like we kind of been talking about was that his connection to OSHA like if that's what it was and
01:26:25
Speaker
Like show that earlier, if that's what that was. Or was that like you're saying, was that just maybe the force? Was he just kind of using the force to like, like hear that or like sense that? right Again, a little more explanation, but that was cool seeing though. yeah I liked that a lot. And in this moment, then he's like, you have to help me save the girls. He's no longer trying to save just Osha. He wants to save both. Torbin says, my you know my he he tells him Torbin, he has to fortify his mind. I thought that that was cool as well too, is like bringing that back up that Torbin is the vulnerable one in in this, but I also think it's a little bit of foreshadowing to what happens next because we all expect that Torbin is the one that
01:27:15
Speaker
gets his mind infected again. We talked about that previously, yeah. Yeah, we thought he was the one that kind of wreaked havoc on the witches and he had turned somewhat to the dark side because of the witch magic. So that's all being planted, right, for what's about to happen.
Courtyard Confrontation and Jedi's Downfall
01:27:32
Speaker
Right, so now we're in the courtyard, Torbin and Soul are there, Mother Coral is there, they have other ah coven members, like with their bow and arrows are at the ready, right, and they try to do it kind of peacefully, but doesn't really.
01:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, it really worked out. So Andara and Kel Naka are like flying in on a ship and they're saying like, we want to de-escalate this. Mother Anasaya is talking with Mother quote Coral. I told you, like, this is not the way that we do this. We cannot use violence. Right, because Mother Anasaya shows up. right Yeah, and Mother Coral is like, I die for these children. and And I want to be like, you can go, you can go sit over there. Like you're not helping in the corner. You're not helping. You're not helping soul shows up and says that they come with noble intentions, right? Like we're here to be the great all knowing Jedi that will save what's going on.
01:28:42
Speaker
And I love mother and say, as you're probably going to give that quote, what mother and say it tells mother and one of my first says she wishes. She's sure they wish they want to know, like, will they allow OSHA to join? Um, and then she says to join an institution instead of her family. So right now, like in this moment, you think, no, mother Anna say is not going to let them go because she's comparing the two. of family and institution. And obviously you would think that she would choose a side of a family and and keep the girls there. And that's what's in Sol's head as well too. He heard May say that to Osha.
01:29:23
Speaker
so Sol asks, then Sol just goes, where, where did the twins come from? Which seemed so ah weird to me. Like it just came out of nowhere. How are they created? And instead of answering him or, or whatever. Mother Anastasia says someday those noble intentions you all have will destroy all the Jedi in the galaxy. One of the best quotes. Because we know it's true. is one of the best quotes in this series. I love that. Their experience with their choices. With everything, right. Them choosing to become a part of the galactic military. Them choosing to interfere with what's going on with this coven and these girls. It always does not turn out well.
01:30:19
Speaker
It's causing the effect, yeah. So yeah, that's one of my favorite lines that she says because it's such a deep like cut in many ways, right? It's a deep cut obviously for us nerds because we know that's true. Their intent, their, their intentions, albeit noble to them, lead them down a path that is self-destruction, right? But it's also a deep cut to, you know, in the, to soul, right? Because she's basically telling him, listen, you can have all the, you have all the noble intentions that you can have, but you are basically dooming
01:31:00
Speaker
Everything that you believe in like yeah all this get all this Jedi stuff all that everything yeah you believe is right you're doing it because of these noble intentions because you think what you are doing is More righteous. Yeah the right way then then anything right on anything She knows that and if she told them how they were created they would immediately go to oh they were created unnaturally and We have to stop this right now So, and they will say that because they believe that's the correct way of doing things. And she's like flat out telling them like, your way of thinking is not everybody's way. And you have to come to terms with that. Otherwise you are doomed. Right. I mean, she flat out, right, is just basically telling them, you guys are going to screw yourselves. Like,
01:31:59
Speaker
You are. And she was 100% right. They do. In the end, they self-destruct, right? They do. Everything that happens to them is because of their actions, right? Because of their choices. Because of the choices they make along the way, they fail and they allow the Sith to rise. 100%. 100% true of what she says. Now here's the, so now, We see that scene with ah May and the fire, right? So we kind of get her perspective. So again, we speculated that maybe it was something else that really started it, but it was her, but it just caught like on the electrical, whatever. yeah And it turned into a bigger fire. So again, I bought that. I was fine with it. ah Did you really care that?
01:32:54
Speaker
I mean, it was what it was, right? There's nothing expected that as well, too. I mean, we talked about that. You see her lighting the book on fire. You don't see her lighting the place on fire. You can assume that it grew and became out of control. and you you flat out like get to see that. She didn't light the the electrical wiring. She wasn't trying to to harm, but that that whole shot with her like staring into the flame was all just very interesting. So, but no, she she didn't intentionally start that fire. Right, right, right which again, we we talked about that and we thought, you know, some of the stuff that maybe we were thinking
01:33:37
Speaker
was hey maybe mother coral helped with you know expounding it or something else really you know expounded the fire but no it was It was her and that's fine, right? I mean, it is, it works. But then we transitioned to her running out, looking for help. And then that's when Sol believes, cause he says OSHA, he thinks that's OSHA, right? And then Mother Anasaya started doing this really, again, cool stuff, man. This is cool stuff. This is where Star Wars is cool. Doing this kind of,
01:34:16
Speaker
I don't even know like this, which transformation or something. And then you see OSHA may, cause it's may start kind of fading, right? Like end game in adventures. Like they all start turning the dust or something. So what, how did you read that? Like was she, cause I read it as she was maybe letting Osha like maybe finally combining them instead of being two to become the one, right? Or like, or she was just taken away in May because she knew Osha was going to become like, how how did you read like motivations with Anasaya?
01:35:03
Speaker
So I honestly thought like she was getting her out of the way of what was about to happen. She had to create that energy herself and then she would be able to then pull May out as well too. Because right before that, Torben ignites his fricking lightsaber and mother Coral goes into a battle stance. So it the fight is about to break out and May is about to be in the middle of it. So I immediately thought that mother Anna Seo went into protective mode and that creepy disappearance was actually her protecting her. But unfortunately, that's not how souls saw it in the moment.
01:35:45
Speaker
Right. So you see that shot of like May fading mother and say is doing her thing and then soul, right? Ignites his lightsaber and then stabs her. Oh my God. And then he realized, or then that's when she says, I was going to let Osha go. Yeah. She chose you. She was going to, yeah. And she was okay with that. And then that's when May comes running. And then that's when Soul realizes it was an OSHA, that it was May. He screwed up. He screwed up big time, right? So now a whole fight ensues.
01:36:27
Speaker
right now mother corals attacking soul all this yeah go ahead though what do you got so when this happens i'm like wow may saw soul kill her mother that is reason not like justified revenge but that That makes more sense why Mei was so driven on the revenge. It wasn't just because her sister was taken away and her coven was destroyed. A Jedi was responsible for her mother's death. And that's what again, a lot of previous like what she would like what she said to Endara in episode one, like. When Endara said to her, like, Jedi don't attack the unarmed she's like, you sure about that?
01:37:13
Speaker
sure does check notes somebody did they attacked my mom and killed her I saw it yep saw with my own eyes so now we get into the whole fight between ah soul and coral right he's not igniting his lightsaber he's just going hand to hand she's getting like mad like she wants him to attack right And then, you know, you see Torben just blocking all the arrows that are being shot at him. Right. So good choreograph stuff. I like it. yeah like fight whiteight coravber skills Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Really good stuff. So then eventually coral, you know, kind of becomes, starts to become dust too, or she does what mother and say it was doing. Right.
01:38:00
Speaker
Yeah, but before that, when her and Sol were fighting, and Sol just doesn't fight back, right? And I think, like, I brought it up earlier, like, this is the moment where Sol becomes the Jedi that we knew in earlier episodes. OK. Right? I can buy that. He doesn't draw his weapon. He's reflected on his choices. Like, I'm not sure if he wants to die in this moment, but he has come to the realization that is mistakes on and just like allows the the force to to do whatever has to happen to him. Like he in that moment, a little bit is when he becomes this Jedi that knows he must console in in in the force and allow the force to guide him. Yeah, no, I like that. I that's a good that's a good interpretation of that because
01:38:55
Speaker
That is when we kind of see the a soul that we've seen before, right? Yeah. The non not pulling the weapon. Right. Just using the force to guide him. Right. Just like his fight with May later on. Right. um In that episode. And Mother Coral screaming fight me was just awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. She just lost her her partner. um She knew probably knew Mother Anasea was the more powerful of the two and now she she probably believes there's no hope in in protecting her girls. So um that that was all great.
01:39:38
Speaker
Very good. Yeah, no, I love that. And then again, we get so we get to the point where she kind of disappears yeah right into dust along with all the other. um Like the the the war, the warrior or the coven with the arrows, yeah they were all of a sudden gone. Right. And then. You hear her voice, you know, it sounds like she's kind of taunting Torben. Yeah, because Torben says it's happening again. Right. He says that he's strengthened his mind. And I'm sure everybody's thinking in this moment, like Torben, this is when Torben is going to get possessed and just go ham. Right. Because he says he's fortified his mind. Right. And then that's when Mother Crow's voice says, I'm not talking.
01:40:27
Speaker
about you. you never You shouldn't have brought him here. You should have brought him here, right. Yeah. Right. And that's when Kel Naka comes a-coming, walks down and he is possessed. And he's one that causes the scar on Torben's face. Like, yeah all heck has broken loose now. And then you see the, so you see what's going on is that all of the other, I guess leaders of the coven, like the the council that ah mother and say I was talking to, right? They're all kind of chanting or like, they're all together. Their eyes are blacked out. Right. so
01:41:05
Speaker
Do you take that as mother coral has taken over all of them right at this point? Is that what's going on? Wow. I never even thought about that. I kind of just thought she was in with the group of, of connecting to Kalnaka, but that is possible that she could have, you know, cause we don't see her. I mean, ah but when I was watching, I did not see her in that, like the group. doing their chanting and all that. Yeah, absolutely. not She could have been like the puppeteer of like all that, like pulling the thread, getting all of those that are connected to then fight um and infiltrate Killnaka's mind. Yeah. So i again, we'll see, right? i Because we we don't see her. We don't see her body.
01:41:59
Speaker
Even even in the other episode in episode 3 you don't I think she's dead Okay, you think so? I see I i again. I have a different theory that we'll talk at the end, but So this is all happening right canal is attacking We see Torbren get scarred up so we now we know where he gets the scar. How'd you feel about this fight? I thought the choreograph was pretty good. You did like it? I liked it. I thought it was pretty good. It was solid. like There are some complaints online, right? Some people just took certain parts of it. Oh, really? I didn't know so. Really? People were like, this this is good. But I don't think they were taking into consideration that Torben and Sol weren't trying to fight him. They were just trying to block and dodge him. um Right. they weren't there That's his their friend. why would Why would they want to, like,
01:42:52
Speaker
heard of I mean clearly because that was again one of my favorite shots is when souls like in the air twisting He turns off his saber, right? Yeah and hits him in the butt with the help right and then knock, you know So not some right the next Kanaka, right? So right those like I bought I love the choreograph like that. I wrote that down. I'm like this Solid. I mean we have said that since the beginning of the series. The fight choreograph in the series has been very good. And it's continued on. Like it hasn't wavered for me. It's been solid. So we get, again, some really cool stuff there. And then we get in Dara.
01:43:32
Speaker
Coming in with some kung fu. Coming in hot. Just like you know Matrix. We'd love to see it, Trinity. And she takes down Kanaka and then she is trying to use the force to infiltrate his mind, right? To break the connection that he is under. So how did you take what she did? It's pretty powerful. if If it takes that many,
01:44:03
Speaker
of the coven to take over Kalnaka. Maybe because he's bigger, right? But it only took Andara to take out all those coven members. yeah Pretty powerful stuff, right? Yeah, I did write that down as her breaking the connection between Kal Naka and the witches seemed like an easy feat to her. There wasn't much struggle. I would have liked to see her visually seeing the witches. That would have been cool.
01:44:34
Speaker
like and then like her like almost being unable to do it at first because according to Leslie Headland when she breaks the connection between the witches and Kalnaka the witches are dead. They have died. Okay. I was just gonna say do you think they make sense? She says, so a lot of people are like, Oh my God, I can't believe Indara killed all those people. I don't think, I wish we could have seen Indara's thought process around that. Like I have to try whatever I can. And if it takes out all these people, like she probably hopes that it doesn't, but she needs to do whatever she can. And that, that struggle just wasn't displayed well. Yeah. No, I agree. It wasn't.
01:45:25
Speaker
again, little more, right? Just a little bit more would have been nice, yeah right? But again, cool, like cool concept yeah of having her being able to do it through like Kalnaka and then being able to sever it and then to take them all out. Yeah. Pretty cool. Pretty cool for stuff. Like, I mean, gotta admit, I mean, We talked about too, previously, that, you know, we said that, nah, they probably didn't massacre the entire coven. Right. Well, well, well, I guess there's two options you can believe. They killed them or they knocked them unconscious and the fire killed them. Right. That's what I was just going to say. Do you think she actually, um, but either way they're dead.
01:46:17
Speaker
Right, right, right, right. Do you think that she just, like, right, kind of knocked them out and not killed them? That's how I kind of took it. Yeah. More so than she killed them at that moment. Yeah. It's that she knocked them out. Yeah. From ah from being able to obviously possess Kanaka, but then kind of knocked them out with the force. Yeah. Right. So that they weren't able to immediately like attack back. So if you believe that she killed off that coven, then you would have to believe that she also killed off mother coral.
01:46:57
Speaker
Or if you believe that they were knocked out and the fire kills them, then you can believe that mother coral is still alive. See, I go with, I think mother coral is still alive. Yeah, nobody. No crime. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Because I think even Leslie said something in an interview like, But, you know, well, there's no body, but we'll see. Yeah, she did. Yeah. So again, that gives me the credence to what I think might be going on. Again, we'll save that to the very, very end.
Consequences of Jedi Choices and Series Speculations
01:47:30
Speaker
um But now we get, you know, and Dara very upset at everybody. She was like, all right, well, go get the kids. Go get the kids. This is, you know.
01:47:43
Speaker
We have no choice now. We have to protect them. Yeah. So this is where we see souls finally point of view. of OSHA made, you know, looking at each other, talking on the bridge on the catwalk. Right. That is snapped in half. and Right. And now we see that it was him holding it up the entire time. Right. Which is very cool. like Again, this is good stuff. I like how this is the details of it. Right. Right. And that he had to make a choice. oh And he chose that he OSHA was again, for whatever reason,
01:48:23
Speaker
He felt more connected with Osha, right? And he saves her, right? And then May falls, right? And again, I believe we will find out how she survived because that is going to be something that I question and how, right? Like, how did that happen? Maybe mother coral came in. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's why I think she's alive again. I got deeper thoughts at the end. We'll give some theories. But I, right. So, i but I hope we see that. Like I want, I want that explained. That that's something that I need to know. Like you can't just be like, well, she survived. Okay. Well, can you at least- SoulSar fall. right and You said no one can survive that fall. Right. So we need to know how. So again, that's why I believe mother coral is a hundred percent alive.
01:49:22
Speaker
So again, choice and apropos title. This is, you know, he so made the choice and wanted to save OSHA. And now we we're on the ship. oh um OSHA is still kind of knocked out. And Dara's pissed. And 100% rightfully so. Yeah, she's she's angry. Very angry. Which makes sense. on what happens next because she chooses very poorly, I think. And it's like, you try to think like, who was the cause of of this future that happens to Mae and Osha? And it's almost like everybody had that feeling in it. yeah And now you see like, again, Team Indara the whole way through, and then this moment just absolutely breaks my heart.
01:50:16
Speaker
Yeah, this is the moment where I was like, you had me in the first half, in Nara. You had me in the first half. But this gives, okay, so this gives the credence because she basically tells Soul that, well, we have to lie now. And the lie is, Mesa are the fire and is responsible for you know the destruction and the end of this coven. And she calls it the truth. We're going to tell them the truth. Right. A flat out lie. Like this is where the lie is agreed upon. Right. They all agree to it. And then Osha wakes up and this is when soul tells her the lie. Right. And the lie begins.
01:51:04
Speaker
And now we know why choices, you know, we understand May's motivations. Like you talked about earlier, Andrea, we understand it now. Right. Cause she saw soul murder her mother. Right. Do you now hear my thing with the whole kind of with the whole May revenge tour, if you want to call it, what, I mean, it it was basically just because they were all there. Right. And she went after ah everybody except soul. Like what again, like that's like her, her list. It seemed like soul was last. Right. And probably because she, he's the one that killed his ah her mother. So maybe she was just leaving that for last. Right. Mm-hmm.
01:51:55
Speaker
But do you think the whole Indara, I felt like the Indara one, ah I don't know, not that it was unjustified because of what, obviously what we know, right? Because she portrayed this lie, h right? But Mae would have never known that. So that's where I'm like, who, like the motivation to Karen Dara, I, not that I question because again, I understand it because it was, Like you're saying, everybody, all those Jedi were at fault at some point or another. Yeah, I think, um, I think that was probably the master plan of the stranger. You know, she probably just wanted to kill soul and he wants to reveal the Jedi's, you know, kill the dream.
01:52:43
Speaker
He wants to kill the dream, so he's like, no, we got to kind of break this apart in pieces and allow the Jedi to get involved. you know so And I think Mae is very easily influenced. So my headcanon thinks that she probably just wanted to kill Sol, but he's like, we have to start from the beginning. All of them are responsible. yeah he He doesn't know that that they are, but um that's just how the story gets opened. right Yeah, so I this is so this is where and I have said agree I think that's the motivation that the motivation was pushed on her to do more than just maybe the guy that Actually killed his mom killed her mom So this is where my theory of
01:53:30
Speaker
Mother Cora being alive, right? So we know she turned into the the coven dust, whatever you want to call it, right? Mm hmm. And again, my inter my kind of headcount right now is that she possessed the other witches. Right. Mm hmm. I don't think that killed her. I think she was able then to with, with whatever magic, right? Reappear. And she's the one that I believe, like, she has a big bed. I think, well, here's, this is how, where I go with it. I think that she obviously saved May, but I wonder if she
01:54:16
Speaker
at some point possessed somebody else and is just going through them. And it's just kind of going from maybe person to person, if that makes sense. Like not going back to her like mother coral form, right? What she looks like. But because she's able to maybe now like possess different people, she is possessing you know the stranger. But I don't know if it's really like I kind of go back and forth with that because again The weird kind of vibes when they were like together on the island Kind of just give me like yeah, I don't know about that, but somehow He is connected right that's been my I i think that's been one thing is that he is connected to the coming in somehow some way right because he definitely seems like he knows a lot and
01:55:15
Speaker
He knows a lot, right? Like he was there almost. And we talked about that line that he said on that episode about him being like a Jedi a long, long time ago, right? With the whole age thing. This would give me, this is where that kind of idea for me comes across. Possibly that it's just, it's a, another form of mother coral, but not mother coral, if that's making sense. Okay. So that's where like, I feel like that's how the connection between the stranger and May and Osha is because he, again, he somehow connected with the coven. I just don't know how yet. And maybe that's what get explained in the next episode. But I do believe Mother Coral is alive in some way, shape or form.
01:56:01
Speaker
whether that's in physical form or if she's like, you know, possessing people somehow, some way. That's just how I go with it. Where do you I mean, so do you think you think she's dead 100 percent? She's not.
01:56:19
Speaker
Right. yeah i Yeah, I don't know. Like. I believe. I'm kind of like, oh, yeah, maybe she did die. You know, maybe they severed the connection and she was part of the connection and she died. Or maybe she got away because we don't see her. So I can i can go back and forth with either. Where I think this goes is if Mother Coral got away, I think she would go to the person who was helping or facilitating the creation of the twins. right theres Someone else had to be involved with this. that I like where you're going. I like that.
01:57:01
Speaker
That's why she said, what if the Jedi find out how you created them? What if the Jedi found out that you partnered up with a Sith and you and that's how you were able to create them? I liked that a lot. So I think she goes back to that source. And I think the Sith of that time are are hiding in plain sight, looking to find ways to infiltrate the Jedi without direct attacks. They're looking to find dirt on them. um They're looking to get them involved um like politically to to make them look like they are are not the shining light to so the public. The beacon of light, right? The beacon of light, right? The beacon of hope, the protectors of the galaxy. They're not the protectors of the galaxy. They are creating the the chaos and the separation of- The downfall of it, right? Of ah everything.
01:58:00
Speaker
So I like to believe that the Big Bad is a Sith master who also knows about this story that might have happened with Khmer and his Jedi master and then also knows about these witches and that Jedi and is orchestrating this this break right to that will then connect the senate to the to the jedi and then disable their their able their ability to make choices and all of that like that's where my mind goes is if this show is about sith then we have to be able to see how the sith infiltrate the jedi right and
01:58:44
Speaker
The Coven and Khmer are tools. That's where I take it. No, I like that. I think that makes a lot of sense that maybe she would go to, if it is, again, that they had help. It wasn't just them. Right. Right. Because i' right I've been going on the assumption that it was just them, but maybe they did need outside help, right, to create the twins, right? Yeah, I like that. I like that. Maybe that's maybe the the way more better explanation of it. So like I said, I believe mother coral is alive. I really do. Cause again, nobody, I just feel like she's alive, right? I wonder if because of her species, I wonder if she was a former night sister.
01:59:38
Speaker
do you there Or do you think that's kind of maybe yeah too much? Too much. I don't know too much about like Zabrak females. That's fair. I know that they birth. Zabrak males and then they get taken by the night sisters, right, right, right Yeah, no, that's a good call I was just i'm i'm curious like if she just had some type of connection to the night sisters since they brought it up, right? So they brought up night sister Yeah, but no, you're probably right though. That probably doesn't matter. It doesn't add into the to the to the factors, but I Do like that idea. I think oh yeah, maybe I'm way more on board with your idea that I
02:00:20
Speaker
Somehow she if she is alive She went to again, maybe the source that helped them find this virgins right and They are the ones that are maybe chimer or chimer's Master whatever, right? That makes way more sense. That makes way more sense. I could buy that I can buy that but I still yeah I for some reason I just feel like she's alive and I think maybe she's one that actually helped me escape and Then maybe they together go see the person. Oh, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Absolutely. Maybe maybe I don't know any other kind of ah
02:01:04
Speaker
theories that you might are looking at or final thoughts as we head into the finale, what what's where do we go? Where are you thinking that this is the end game of it all? Because I honestly, I have no idea. I really have no idea how this show's gonna end. Are we gonna go back to Brenda? That would make sense. yeah You and I have talked about that. So there's like still questions, right? We still don't know exactly how the twins were created.
02:01:36
Speaker
Right, that did not get answered in this episode, which I think we were kind of hoping that it would and it did not happen. So that question is still up in the air. Which I think one that is one that we will get in. I really do, yeah. Yeah, and then we still have like the whole comeer, like how is the stranger- His connections to it all. How is he connected to Mae? How did that all happen? Hopefully that gets explained in the next episode.
02:02:07
Speaker
um So it there's there's a few things that definitely got answered, right? Were the Jedi responsible for what happened on Brendok? Pretty much. Let's, let's say, there are a lot of it paid call space paid. There were a lot of people that were involved. And yes, they decided to lie to the Jedi Council about exactly what happened. And in Dara says that she's doing it to protect OSHA. um Whether that's true, I don't know. But um I would trust in Dara's intentions more than
02:02:48
Speaker
souls at the moment like at that moment in time. Yeah, but I think about how bad her decision was. Oh, I agree. I agree. Soul wanted to confess. He wanted to absolve himself of this pain and suffering and this this terrible thing that he did, and to not allow him, or Torbin, or Kalnaka, because Kalnaka's probably you know in pain in and suffering as well too, because he attacked Torben. He's probably now considered a mad claw because he actually like used harm use his actual claws to like hurt another being. That's something within the Wookiee group you just do not do. so And Dara making that decision
02:03:41
Speaker
just puts everybody in a bad spot. It puts everyone in a bad spot to not be able to atone for what they do. So, like, Kelnaka goes off and is isolated. Torben takes to Barashvall. soul takes the path of I'm now going to be the best Jedi that I can possibly be. And this is how I atone for what I did. But we all know that is not it, right? The confession like has to come out. You have to be able to free yourself from what you did by admitting to it and telling another person. So. It's like in Dara's choice is is really what kind of
02:04:27
Speaker
ruined all of this but and I agree but obviously she had to react to what they did right so it's like because of because of what Torben did because of what sold it because of what you know Kalnaka got possessed she had to make the decision of not like lying to the council Right, and that, I mean, that could harp him back to what you said. Her initially not having had reached out to the council. Yeah, right? We could find that out, that didn't happen really.
02:05:06
Speaker
And I also think maybe it was a planet, right? We see Torben get infected. We see Sol's judgment get clouded, count that happens to Kalnaka. Maybe when she connected with the coven or was on that planet, like, There was a part of this dark side energy that infiltrated her mind and it clouded her judgment. She became selfish as well, too. Like if you think about it, everybody minus Kalnaka was completely selfish in this episode. Torbin without a doubt, soul without a doubt. And now at the end, Indara as well, too. Yeah, no, there could be some weird, you know, foresee whatever going on on the planet. Right. Because again, the whole reason they're there is because
02:05:51
Speaker
It became, you know, it was inhabitable. Then all of a sudden it became full of life. So what caused that? Right. We don't even know what that. What caused that, right? Was it just because of the coven? Was it? Was it something else? Was there something on the legacy run that like dropped into um a friend? i Right. Right. Were they carrying something? Oh, my God. Right. There's a lot again. There's a lot of questions But I think the main ones I feel like like you were hidden on like Kaimir connection. I really do want to know that right What I think the whole May and OSHA, right? Once may finds out the truth what happens then right Mother coral is she alive or dead? I think that gets answered, right? I And then again, how how does this end? Does soul live? No way. I kind of agree. I kind of agree. I don't see him making it out. Does her master live? I think so. Yeah. I do. Yeah. No, I think she is there and will know the truth, but maybe she continues the lie. Maybe.
02:07:21
Speaker
Right? And because it has been set up already, right? With her saying like, basically, hey, we got to watch what we do because our political, you know, these enemies of ours are auditing. Right. So maybe she finds out, figures it out what really happened and then She's like, okay, well, uh, nope. Got to keep that under wraps too, unfortunately. Right? She makes that hard choice. She makes that decision. So we'll see. Yeah. I mean, again, what's happened? What happens to Ocean in May? Do they become one finally? I don't know. Do they both die? Just one die and then the other one. What happens? I feel like.
02:08:14
Speaker
i I don't know. Again, it could go so many ways. And like you're saying, do we have a season two? yeah I mean, I would like it, but we'll see. We'll see. Do you think after after episode eight, you will be satisfied with what we find out? I do. because i Honestly, I think they have for the again, for all the kind of stuff that I nitpick, you know, through it. i They have given us answers, right? They obviously raised questions along the way, but they do answer a lot of, I think, the major plot points, right? And I think they'll do that. I think they'll explain what we need to know, right? And they'll leave, just like we talked about earlier, they'll leave some stuff ambiguous.
02:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, just in case there's a season two or novels or whatnot, right? Yeah. So I mean, what do you think? Do you think it will do you think you'll be satisfied with how it ends? God, I hope so. I don't know if I will be initially. I think it might take a little bit of, um, like that's fair reflection and and invest, you know, rewatching and cause the, I mean, the story has always been so rushed, right. And your first watch is just eat with most Star Wars, you're just like, Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Right. We always talk about that. You're not like pulling in the context. You're not necessarily remembering what what was said um two episodes before. so My expectation is that this this episode is going to happen and I'm going to be sitting in silence and I'm going to be like, hu
02:10:03
Speaker
Interesting ah yeah I again I do expect that it will answer again the major stuff that it needs to write yeah I agree so I'm that and that will that that for me okay cool I can as long as you satisfy the major stuff I'm cool you can leave some stuff ambiguous and that's fine Cause that, I mean, that's not every story, every show explains everything, right? Like it's yeah it's just, that's just storytelling. Some stuff you leave open to interpretation, some stuff you leave, you know, uh, ambiguous for, uh, for readers or viewers. Right. I feel like that's what that will happen, but I think it will be satisfying though. Do you think we go back to Brenda?
02:10:55
Speaker
I just, so I don't know where we go, right? Yeah. I mean, I would like to know what this mining facility was. Was that the cause of the virgins? What were they mining for? Who was it that was there that was mining? And right like that, I feel like that didn't get answered. I don't know if it's necessary, but it just seems like it was brought up. Like you could have just thought like, oh, it was a fortress that the coven has. and there and like and But they flat out brought up that it was a ah mining facility. Yeah.
02:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, so we'll see. I agree. i It'd be interesting if that is something that plays into into it, right? So do you think we will get a Darth Plagueis connection?
02:11:46
Speaker
No, I don't. At this point, I don't see it just because of how the story is unfolding. I don't I don't see it. Being him. Could it be another Sith whatever? Maybe. But it might just be Kaimir. Kaimir just might be the guy, right? He just might be just the dude. he he's he's He's by himself for whatever reason, and he's looking for a pupil, just like he said. It could just be that, again, this show, for a lot of the speculation, it's been pretty like, no, guys, this is it.
02:12:28
Speaker
Right? So if we take stuff at face value, then he is a guy with no name, right? You might call him Sith and he's just looking for a pupil like that's just for whatever reason. I think that's what we will find out is more his motivations. and why he wants to destroy the dream of the Jedi, right? And is it because he's a former Jedi himself? Again, he said it. I think that's gonna play a part into it. And will Vernestra be his, was it former Padawan?
Reflections and Series Themes
02:13:04
Speaker
Maybe, maybe not. I know we talked about that. We'll see if that plays out. So where do you go with it?
02:13:13
Speaker
I think in a way it's gonna half, like I don't think we're gonna see Darth Plagueis. Right. Right. Who knows? But I think that the story has to connect where this falls in like the Sith lineage. Right. OK. OK. Is this like a catalyst for Tenebrous to Plagueis to Palpatine? Is this Tenebrous being involved and then it moves to Plagueis to Palpatine? And there was an interview where someone asked Leslie Hedlund says,
02:13:44
Speaker
um Do you know how the whole story of the galaxy far, far away from the Alkalite to him, Darth Plagueis, training Palpatine connects? And she said, yes, I do. If I continue to get to tell this story, I know how I would like that to play out. And I would say I think it's pretty complicated and messy. So I think we will be good. I think we will get an answer of where this falls in the Sith timeline. And who is alive at this time? I think there's Plagueis or Tenebus or whoever, right? whatever That's what I think. I I like it. I guess again, I I can see them name dropping. yeah I don't know if we'll see them, but or that or that's the cliffhanger that intrigues everybody to want a season two.
02:14:41
Speaker
Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe. We'll see, again, this could end in many different ways. That's just where this gets. It could end in many different ways. and But i think I think, again, as you asked, I think it will so add it will be satisfying. I do. I think it will satisfy what this first season, if this is hopefully more to come, if this is how the story that Leslie wanted to tell, I think she will wrap it up in a good way, a satisfying way. Yeah, I think she will cut it off to where it answers what was brought up and we would feel satisfied with this portion of the story, but leave it open to to continue to want to see what happens next.
02:15:35
Speaker
right right and maybe that will either lead to a season two or maybe novels maybe or maybe another show yeah right who knows who knows all right final thoughts h before we wrap it up anything
02:15:51
Speaker
The Jedi are flawed. That does not make them bad people. Right. um ah can I like to go on record to say the Jedi are not the villains of this series. No, yeah, I agree. this That's not it. If that's is that's how you feel, that's how you feel and that's fine. I understand. Yeah. Where that would come from for sure, right? Like I get that, but I just i i just don't agree with that assessment. Yeah, the core of them wants to protect life. And unfortunately, sometimes they make selfish decisions in the process of doing that. Right. And again, you could see that as them being the villains of this series 100 percent. Like I get that. Like I can see the arguments. I just don't I just don't agree with.
02:16:42
Speaker
with that. I don't think the show is made to show that the Jedi are bad. Right, right, right. I think it's just, I agree. I think it's like you're saying, it's showing them how flawed they are, how misguided they are in their, in like, in their noble intentions, right? As Anna, as mother and insane has said, their noble intentions are the downfall. And we know that, and this is the show that is proving that, right? It's just showing that that all comes to fruition. so
02:17:17
Speaker
Because in reality, in the High Republic, the Jedi are pretty much loved, right? There's a lot of chaos going on, but the Jedi are there as protectors, and people like truly believe that. Like having them on their planet, like having the outposts, want the Jedi to be there. And then slowly, you start to see that the general public doesn't feel that way anymore, right? like I'm reading the Living Force right now, and it it talks about how they're starting to close down the outposts from the High Republic and how it's affecting um areas around the the galaxy so much that when the Jedi show back up, the people resent them. So it's it's you're starting to learn that the Jedi were great.
02:18:08
Speaker
Absolutely. But we're getting the part of the story right now where we start to see the cracks. It's the downfall. Right. It's the downfall of the Jedi Order. Right. This is literally that story. Who kids finale should be good? Hopefully it's spicy. Hopefully it's spicy. I think it will be. All right guys, that's it. That's the show. Hope you enjoyed our conversation. Wow. Two plus hours, baby. Wow. On a 30 minute, 30 plus minutes. Interesting. Interesting text message. That's one thing I will say, but maybe just to wrap it up before we really get out of here. um
02:18:49
Speaker
The show for as much as, again, the stuff that maybe we are vibing with, it has brought really fun discussions yeah to us, right? Like really good stuff. And again, other podcasts, a lot of their shows are really fun and interesting because of different people's interpretations. I think that's what, again, I think that's what Leslie really wanted. if I mean, I would think she would want people to discuss this in a very more and a very thought provoking way. Yeah, I agree. And they have succeeded with that 100 percent, 100 percent.
02:19:30
Speaker
All right, kids, if you want to follow us, you can follow us at the Galactic Podcast at the Galactic Pod and all the major social media platforms. And then you can follow our episodes on all major podcast platforms like Apple Pod, Google Play, Spotify. And then you can follow me, Lauren Romo, at Low Row Knows and all those social platforms. You can follow me Andrea Gutierrez at r2d2step on Twitter X Instagram threads Jimin's album drops on July 19th. Oh, we're five days away kids And that is your bt BTS update for the week five days five days for new album
02:20:15
Speaker
Alright, kids. And as always, may the force be with you. Always. Always.