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Episode 155- The Acolyte Recap Finale
111 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to The GALactic Podcast! In this episode, Andrea and Lauren chat about The Acolyte Finale. Vernestra did what? Was that Plaguies!? Did the finale satisfy us? They talk these topics and much more Go listen and enjoy!
Reminder to rate and review where available! And as always, May that force be with you!
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Teaser
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to the glad to podcast I'm Lauren Omo with me as always is my cousin and fellow nerd Andrea Gutierrez Yo, yo, yo, my son's what's going on? Just chillin. How you been doing? Good man acolyte finale Got a lot to talk about We have a lot to talk about this could be another two-hour conversation possibly I'm going, uh, I'm going. Yeah, I'll say two hours. Maybe we'll be close. You think maybe we'll see. I didn't take any notes. I was just like, I don't know. I was just absorbing it. I've watched it like three or four times. So we'll get to that. Yeah. Yeah.
Exploring the Star Wars Universe
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. Well, we'll also talk about, uh, our thoughts and feelings for sure. Yeah. Guys, this is the acolyte, the finale. We are going to talk about it. We've got a lot of stuff.
00:01:02
Speaker
So let's get to it, but before we do that, if this is your first time listening to us, welcome. We, our server's podcast has discussed anything and everything within that galaxy far, far away. In each episode, we will dive into one or two one or two topics and have a general discussion on them. Topics could be movies, TV series, books, comics, a specific character, you name it. And we talk about it.
Acolyte Finale Impressions
00:01:25
Speaker
Alright, Anshoo-wee. Eight episodes done. The Acolyte finale has come and went.
00:01:35
Speaker
How you feeling? Yeah, we got thoughts. I got thoughts. I don't know your thoughts. Yeah, this should be interesting. I mean, they're mostly positive as I think most of the time they are, but there are things and maybe you and I feel the same way on certain stuff of maybe certain characters doing certain things. What have they earned? Were they not earned? Was it too quick? I think there's a lot of those kind of conversations yeah ah to be had for sure. but We'll start with you, Ang. I know, ah correct me if I'm wrong, wednesday you didn't watch it on Tuesday night. I did, but date later. Okay, super late. so Talk about your viewing, how it all went, and talk about overall thoughts, feelings. Start us
Concert Experience and Watching Acolyte
00:02:20
Speaker
off. What do you got?
00:02:21
Speaker
So I was at a concert that night. I went and saw Alanis Morissette at Pine Knob. Love that. And it was so packed. It was crazy, like how packed it was. It was so... It's bigger. She's so bakers, baby. Honestly, she sings. better live like the her the quality of her voice is better live than it is recorded on on an album like hands down so she was awesome anyway so we were like first of all it took us forever to get in there we had a park like on the grass way in the back it was like terrible
00:02:55
Speaker
So we got back to the car and I was like, we are not going to move for about 45 minutes. So I played it in my car on my phone and the sound quality was amazing. It was so good in the car. Um, but I didn't get to watch all of it. We eventually started to move, but that was like my initial watch and my mom was in the car and then at least it was in the car and she doesn't like Star Wars at all. So like, as I was freaking out about things, she was like, Oh my God. And I was like, you know, doing my high pitch scream. Oh my God. I love that.
00:03:38
Speaker
So I got home, I finished it. And like the end, I was like, okay. But a lot of it, again, was thought provoking. We were given answers to things we were wondering about, but not all of them. It definitely left me satisfied with that story and left it open for it to continue. So I'm cool with all of that. I don't think I need to know all of the answers. But some things I wish were a little bit more like, like you said, like earned.
00:04:13
Speaker
so Overall, I was very happy. you know I loved it, and I've watched it a couple more times after that, ah and ah I just think like the fort fight choreography was excellent. The acting performances were top tier. ah It just ah was just a great presentation of new Star Wars, so I loved it.
Fight Choreography Praise
00:04:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm right with you with all that. i I believe, and we talked about it kind of last week, like maybe what we were hoping, right? Would this satisfy the the story that they were trying to tell, right? We knew, again, we talked about it last week too, about
00:05:00
Speaker
Are all all the answers gonna get, you know, are we gonna get those answers? No, right? Because like you brought up last week, Star Wars is ambiguous sometimes. They leave a lot of stuff open for interpretation or for, we'll tell that later on, once we figure it out, right? maybe I mean, in all honesty, right? I mean, that's how George kind of ran with it too. Yeah, maybe that's someone else's story to tell. as well. So right. Right. Right. Right. Right. I agree. Like this was Leslie Hedlund story. Right. Hopefully she gets to continue it. If not, this is her story. And then maybe someone can pick it up. Right. Who knows? Right. Right. But overall, right now overall, the finale was good. Like it was good. I enjoyed it. The again, the acting has never really been an issue for me. Right. Overall.
00:05:55
Speaker
the Maybe the some of the writing and decisions of characters I have questions on. Not that I don't understand some of the motives, it's just that they seem really quick. right And we'll talk about it as we as we break the the episode down. But no I'm glad you brought the fight choreography because throughout the series, not even just this episode, but the entire series, the fight choreography has been some of the best, some of the best that we have seen, not even just in live action. Cause I think it is some of ah probably the best that we've seen in live action, right? At least lightsaber stuff.
00:06:43
Speaker
right Yeah. I mean, the introduction of different fighting styles, ah the influence of like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, ah the influence of Kill Bill, that kung fu feel was very cool. The aggressiveness of ah the stranger slash commuter was just excellent. I don't think we've seen ah a villain or a Sith fight with a lightsaber so ferociously, right? Usually it has like um this ah smooth tempo to it, right? That matches their opponent. this Their two styles were completely different. So I thought it was great. Yeah. The only thing I maybe could compare it, but I don't think it's a really one for one, is
00:07:32
Speaker
Kylo slash Ben. He was more powerful I know about from you could say ferocious but like his fighting style was more just Like Vader ask where it's just power raw, right? Yeah Yeah, where Kaimir's was not not raw but like you're saying it was more ferocious more Tech not tech. Well, maybe technique but it was It wasn't just straight up. Just I'm gonna walk up to you and just start swinging as hard as I can Or just you know, like something like that like that. It was a different type of ferocity and I agree that I don't think we've seen that I Mean could you say mall but mall was more his style was very different though. His style was very disciplined. Yes, I
00:08:20
Speaker
Whereas you could, you could argue, I think Ky mirrors was a little more undisciplined for sure. But also there was a method to his, like in his, like his method was his method, right? Like malls was like, you're saying it was more disciplined, more like. crafted Yeah. Right. Whereas Ky mirrors was maybe a little more, non-crafted but like in his mind it's it was his it's his style right but i loved it right i think that the fight between him and soul will obviously talk about it
00:09:03
Speaker
Well, some of the best I'm telling you was some of the best, I think the best we've seen in live action. Right. I mean, I'll do respect. I liked a lot of the, you know, stuff we have seen in all the live action stuff. I mean, the Kenobi and Vader in the Kenobi series. I mean, that's Ewan and Hayden. Come on. Right. That was good stuff. That's great. But this was just so different. I liked it. And it was just the, you could tell how much work the actors, standned up what you know all the people involved. So they're in one of the interviews, Leslie Headland said that they were going to outdo dual fates, which is a huge task.
00:09:46
Speaker
and Uh, I don't know if you can, like there's way more that goes into dual fates and fight choreography as the music behind it is puts you in an and emotional level. Right. So that's why to
Comparing Iconic Star Wars Duels
00:10:03
Speaker
come to try to outdo dual fates. I just don't think you can do it because there's another level to it. It's not just the choreography. Let's be clear. So, and I don't think this achieved that I think the choreography was better.
00:10:18
Speaker
Like, I don't know, I can't say better, but it was amazing, right? Like you're saying, some of the best that we've ever seen. But you have to, like, add context to these, to these battles and these fights. And, you know, I mean, I honestly would put Ahsoka and Maul in the siege of Mandalore up there, right? That is just, like, and percent That rivals dual fates if you ask me. So I didn't think that this ah was outdid it, but I think it was excellent. Yeah, that's a high bar. im i And no offense to Leslie, right? I mean, I like that that's what she was going for, right? yeah that She set a bar for herself. Yeah, like why not? Let's go for it. Right. Why not? Right. I mean, you nothing wrong with it. But I agree that you
00:11:12
Speaker
in context with what the dual, the fates really represented, right? I mean, you again. And the outcome. Right. it's You have to put a lot of that in to play, right? The music itself you is just, come on, that's some of John Williams' best stuff. It's some of his best stuff, right? But then you go back to what, Dave Filoni, right, said about duel of the fates ah in that first Mandalorian gallery, right? I mean, you can't, that that's hard, you you're hard pressed to beat that, right? I understand what she was saying though, because maybe, again, maybe not the moment, the scope of what duel of the fates, but that's hard to take it out of that context and just look at the fight itself.
00:12:06
Speaker
right to look at, you know, Maul versus Obi and Qui-Gon, right? That's some good stuff. it It was. Does this rival that? It's a comparable, the but i fighting style itself, right? I'm not talking about the moment, but the fighting, yeah, I can see that. Does that make sense? What I think makes it very comparable is when the Phantom Menace came out and we saw that fighting style, we had never seen it before. That's a good point. And then also with this fighting style, this is something that we've never seen before within Star Wars. There's been some kung fu feel, like if I go back to Ahsoka fighting the Magistrate, what's her name?
00:12:52
Speaker
that i had it elsman right else but that had it as well too but this uh was kind of just like amped up it was maybe like at an 11 so i think it was awesome i just do not think it out did duel the fates right i get if if i'm looking at it like again take away it's hard but you take away the the context of that moment and you just look at the fight choreography right Could you say that this fight choreography was slightly better than that? You could. And I would i wouldn't besmirch anybody for saying that because it is up there. right These guys worked their asses off. And you can tell you, we've seen some of the behind the scenes right of Manny, of Daphne. right They worked very hard at this choreography. right And it showed.
00:13:53
Speaker
It showed. So, yeah I mean, again, if you if you're looking at just the fight choreography itself, take away the moment of what dual of the fates really means, right, in context. Okay, yeah, maybe I could maybe say it's it's comparable, right, but to outdo the moment of dual of the fates, you're never gonna do that. You're just never gonna do that. right But the fight choreography, if you want to look at the fight choreography itself, okay, yeah, let's have a conversation about that because I think it's up there. Again, I don't know if it beats it, but I think you make a really good point of when Fan of the Menace came out, you know what we were used to the OG slow methodical, right Luke versus Vader was top tier at that time.
00:14:42
Speaker
right Then you move into the prequels to the Phantom Menace and these guys are fast, they're agile, right? It's a totally different ballgame. And now I think Leslie has upped the ante for that now, right? I think she did that. She's upped the ante of, okay, this is what the fight choreography could be in Star Wars. And that I say she did nail. in those terms but to out do duel the face that's just hard it's just a hard part of it's a hard bar to get up to go above but I think I but I I think she definitely went for it and it paid off because they they are again there's some of the best some of the best choreography that we've seen and for me the overall you know again the overall finale was great I liked it and we got the answers I think that we
00:15:36
Speaker
should have gotten a lot of, again, question marks. But again, that doesn't mean that the series was a flop by any means. It doesn't mean that um it was unsuccessful because a lot of people loved this show, right? So I know there's a whole campaign of renewing it and I hope they do. I do, I hope they do because I think there's a very still compelling story. ah to be told. ah Yeah. Right. I mean, again, considering the reveal mid show. Yes. Right. Again, we're going to talk about all that. But right. But just overall, yeah, I think this deserves to be renewed. I do. Now, does that mean this is one of my all time favorite like live action Star Wars? To be honest, no. If I'm looking back at it on a series base, it might not be my absolute favorite. It might not be one that I rewatch a lot.
00:16:31
Speaker
But there are moments where I'm like, oh, that's some of the best, right? That's some of the best stuff that we have gotten in Star Wars in a while, right? Episode five, dark, like that's some good stuff. That whole episode was fantastic, right? I mean, the first two, I ah i mean, I'm gonna say all of it. No, right, right, right. The first two, I mean, even the fight scenes that we saw with May and and Dara, right May and Soul, that stuff was amazing as well too.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was good. And again, I think overall, it does a good it did a good job of telling a compelling story that I was invested in for these eight episodes, right? the the the lore stuff that we got especially like which lore was some of the best that we have gotten so overall yeah i enjoyed it again was it my was it my favorite maybe not but that's okay right like
00:17:42
Speaker
Not every Star Wars thing is gonna hit for forever for every fan, or it might, and who knows, and that's fine. If you have loved, I guess we loved everything that has come out, that's great. And i we have, when we go back to all of our recaps that we've done of anything, yeah we have enjoyed a lot, a lot, a lot of Star Wars, right? But we're honest with our opinions, and we're honest about our feelings about some of it, right? I mean, look at Boba Fat, right? Oh man, I was struggling for a while. What's the best for a crew? Right. oh And I love them. So again, that's the point that what we're trying to make here is that, again, just because you
Show Reception and Storytelling
00:18:23
Speaker
don't love something automatically with Star Wars doesn't mean you hate it. Doesn't mean and like you're you're a terrible fan or anything. Or making your platform about what you hate about a show is ridiculous to me. All I'm going to say on this subject.
00:18:40
Speaker
I agree, I agree, I agree agree, because that's stupid. Like if your whole thing is just hating on it. A, that's just ridiculous number, ah you know, and B, the fact that people follow these people and they get money for doing all this crap is just infuriates me to no end, to no end. But yeah, again, overall, I love the episode, right? I enjoyed it. There's a lot of good stuff that we're going to talk about. But maybe the overall series didn't hit, hit for me, but doesn't mean that I hated it. Doesn't mean that I don't like it. Doesn't mean that I'm a terrible fan for not being over the moon for this series. Are you going to binge it? Maybe you're going to watch it in its ah entirety, one sitting. Yeah, probably. I'll eventually, I might give it, give it some time. Right. Put it on the shelf for a little bit and then revisit it.
00:19:39
Speaker
But I will, I think that that's my plan is to revisit it and do a whole binge and then see if it feels different. Cause you and I talked about that too, throughout the series. Like I wonder if this is going to be a better binge than a week to week. Honestly, though I think it's probably good both ways. I mean, week to week, look at the types of conversations that fans have had each week about each episode. I mean, it's been crazy. The amount of detail and ah themes and um analyzation over
00:20:17
Speaker
A few so sentences of dialogue, it's it's crazy. I absolutely love that part about this show is the types of conversations it has created between fans. Yeah, I mean, Alex and Molly talk about that. Right there actually with their the one of the their latest latest live show on the finale was with Ken and Joseph at Forest Center and they all talked about that how this show has been And I completely 100% agree with with them and what with you with with what you're saying, too This has brought up very interesting conversations right not just
00:21:02
Speaker
Oh, hey, cool lightsaber or whatever, right? Like some deep stuff that you and I, again, we're having close to two hour episodes on 30 minute content. I mean, what does that tell you? That should tell you a lot. It should tell you that a lot of people are have really are having a lot of fun discussing this show. us included, right? Because this is some of, and I've said this before, this is some of our best conversations because of what the show is bringing out of fans, right? It's trying to say, hey, start thinking about Star Wars differently. Try to see it in a different way. Kind of like the Last Jedi. No, I don't disagree with that.
00:21:53
Speaker
I don't disagree with that. That's what I think Last Jedi did. And I think this is what this show is doing currently.
Leslie Hedlund's Storytelling Choices
00:22:02
Speaker
Right? So. The one more thing I want to say, I absolutely love that Leslie Hedlund is aware of all the diversity within the fandom and continues to make choices. purely for the story and what she wants. It reminds me of George. like George is like, I know people didn't like this, and I know that they didn't like Jar Jar Binks, and I know they didn't like um that Luke and Leia were sisters. He was like, but I don't care. He wants to tell his story, right? This is a story I want to tell. This is what I want to display for people. I don't care. And she has that mentality as well, too, which I think is so good.
00:22:47
Speaker
No, I 100% agree, she told her story. I mean, again, we talked about that in the episode, ah was it episode five? Yeah, night. When all those Jedi, Jackie, Yord, I mean, we basically said, Leslie the Huddling, you know, basically told everybody to have your feelings. This is my show, right? This is a story I wanna tell. I don't care, you can hate it. You can critically, you know, analyze it. But this is a story I wanted to tell. And you're 100% right. This is exactly what George said, right? Especially making the prequels. He said, f your feelings. I'm talking about trade routes and all that stuff, right? Like, this is what this is what I wanna do. I don't care what you want. This is what I wanna do. And people need to respect that, right? You can obviously have discussions on it.
00:23:45
Speaker
For sure, but don't like go after a creator because they didn't make something you thought should have been right should have been what you you wanted out of this show. It's not your show. Get over it, it's her show. She ran it, she wrote it, she directed some of these episodes the way she wanted to. And I applaud her for doing that because they took so many big swings and that's something that I will definitely give kudos is that this show gave, took, took big swings on a lot of things. And I think a lot of it hit, some of it maybe be missed, but that's okay. But at least they tried something different. At least she was telling a story that we have never really seen before, right? And bringing in characters that people have been wanting to be brought into canon. So again,
00:24:44
Speaker
You like the show, you hate the show? That's fine, that's your opinion. But again, I encourage, and I think Andrea would encourage people, have conversations about it though. Just don't listen to one dude's YouTube channel. Because somehow he got freaking popular. Go listen to Alex and Molly, if you really want a good analyst and you watch YouTube, watch their stuff. If you haven't already, I know the people that probably listen to us probably do, but if you haven't, Star Wars explained, go listen to them. Go listen to Joseph, Ken and, and Jennifer. I'm for center. Go listen to the, again, so many other podcasts that have actual discussions on this stuff.
00:25:40
Speaker
Don't go listen to the dude bro yelling because his Star Wars is ruined.
Episode Direction and Writing
00:25:44
Speaker
F that guy. No, we're not doing it. We're not doing that in this house. Anyway, let's talk about the show, Ang. I guess there's a lot to talk about. Yeah, there's a lot to talk about. All right, so let's start with, we're going to do how we've been doing it for the last couple episodes, which I think is, again, struck good conversations. We're going to take it kind of section by section, maybe group some stuff together or whatnot, but So first of all, the episode is called the Acculite. Took a minute that for that to come out. Right, don't hate it, that was cool. I kind of like it as the as final title.
Osha's Visions and Family Tensions
00:26:19
Speaker
ah Your director was Han, Hanel Culpepper. And then the writer was a Mr.
00:26:31
Speaker
Jason McCaff. So those are your writers and directors for this episode. OK, so we first we we start with a little bit of a smaller cold open. I think we've then we got previously. But cold open starts with right after episode six, really is OSHA with the helmet on. Haimir like. Is doing whatever he sees that she has a mask on. He seems pleased about it, too. Yeah, right, because he kind of pushed her to do it. All of a sudden she starts freaking out.
00:27:08
Speaker
And then he's trying to take the helmet off, but it's like stopping him because he's getting possessed like Torben did. Right. And then he's finally able to take her mask off. That was interesting. Again, I just want to kind of give kind of where we're at. And then we move to soul talking to me on the ship ah before she escapes. Right, there's some really good conversation within that scene and that leads to again. This is kind of where we'll that leads to the whole Chase scene outside of Brenda was sold in May which was some really good stuff. I loved that scene, too So and let's talk about the that kind of those sections of it, right? So what did you take away? From these this early part of the episode a lot of good stuff some deep stuff some interesting stuff What you got? What do you think?
00:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, I like that we got answers around what OSHA is going to see you when she put the helmet on because a lot of us speculated that maybe she was going to hear the story that Soul told May. um But instead, she got somewhat of a glimpse into the future and a little confusing because she believed that she saw May ah holding a lightsaber, murdering Soul ah without a weapon. And that gets Khmer kind of jacked too because he's like, Oh my gosh, she actually is powerful. May can actually do it. Maybe that's the one I need and I don't need this one. So.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, the whole i I just felt like I wish that scene was shot different. It was so close. like it It was a lot of close-up scenes, right? Close-up to Khmer when his eyes are blacked out. Close-up to Osha the whole time. but Close-up to when he there's that transformation where he's in that like darkened world. Like Torben was, right? Yeah, there just wasn't a big enough breeze to like show the struggle of him trying to get that helmet offer her struggling in the moment around like what was causing her to like kind of freak out so i was like kind of rushed but all right let's go and then uh
00:29:25
Speaker
but oh my god, soul talking to me and just the way he was he was saying things right like there was no apologetic tone in it whatsoever it was just him rehashing that he was right with what he did and that was really like shocking to me i remember like saying out loud when i first saw it like soul what are you doing Like you killed her mother and you want to keep falling back on this,
Soul's Character and Past Actions
00:29:54
Speaker
this reason that you were protecting them. Like I was like, I don't, I don't think this is going to turn out well for soul, like at all, and not just within the show, but within, um, his overall like appearance as, as a Jedi and how fans will think about him and how he'll be portrayed in the galaxy. Like.
00:30:15
Speaker
i I saw absolute doom for him after that conversation with me. It was bad. It was so good bad. It was Wasn't good, kids. Wasn't good. um It was so far from what we saw of him in yeah episodes one and two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I think, again, we I think you're right. I mean, the writing was on the wall for him not to obviously survive. I was still hoping that he was going to. Again, we're going to get we'll get there. ah But to talk about the of the OSHA and Kaimir slash stranger stuff.
00:30:58
Speaker
I would have wished, yeah, I didn't mind the scene. I agree. It was like, okay, we're there. We're kind of just getting from point A to point B real quick. Again, it's one of those, I wish we could have lived there just a little bit longer. Right? I would have loved to see what Osha was kind of seeing. Yeah, I agree. I get it. She told us. Right. But I would have loved to see it. Like I would have loved to see what she was seeing. Right. I mean, again, you could you could argue, well, I mean, even in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke goes through the the cave, right? We see what he sees, right? I would just love to have seen what she was seeing.
00:31:47
Speaker
Or like when Rey in the Rise of Skywalker has that that flash, right? And she sees herself on the throne, which is so freaking brief. I think I missed it like the first eight times I watched it, but anyway, something like that. Right, something. Something would have been great, just a little bit. I mean, even when Anakin was going through his crap in Revenge of the Sith, right? You saw like glimpses, but he he didn't, he obviously didn't know what it all meant. But I would have loved just to see what she was seeing and then again explain to me. What was was she being possessed like what was going on? Yeah, I don't I again. I didn't understand like I understood that it was Whatever like coven witchy force magic force, whatever she has Was doing that to her but like was it her doing it to herself or was it? somebody like doing that like that's again, I
00:32:43
Speaker
Maybe that's me, me not knowing and understanding what was going on, but like I would have just loved to, I think seeing what she was seeing, maybe that's what was causing her to like freak out, right? Seeing her sister kill Soul, maybe was freaking her out. Again, that's why I would have loved to live in that moment a little bit, right? Yeah. i after the fact, not like right away, took into consideration that some dark side artifacts have power, right? You think of like the helmet of moment that's in the Darth Vader comic series. It has the ability to like possess the person or overtake them. So that's kind of how I came to terms with that. And it's like, oh, so is it not just a cortosis helmet? Does it in
00:33:38
Speaker
It doesn't is it not just self self deprivation, but again, they cause it doesn't have powers and So then my head cannon has to create that but like you're saying I feel like the story should the the show should have gave us those answers some views too much of a deep cut I don't know to like to think of moment, but I i A moment of saying like dark side artifacts have dark side properties that can do this right like him explaining that to her maybe when she took it off Something again. This is where I get frustrated from time to time with this show right is i I Understand right I see what they're trying to do right. She's
00:34:23
Speaker
In the helmet kind of like what he told her to do right put the helmet on and you'll be able to focus basically right is to You'll be able to connect with the force connect with whatever Like more Potently and she did and because of that it caused her again. I'm assuming She was freaked again. This is again. I have to create like you're saying my own head cannon is that maybe what she was seeing was like disturbing to her, right? Freaking her out. So then she was losing control, right? And then it was affecting, you know, when Kaimir was trying to help her, it was affecting him because she is so powerful, right? Which again, that makes sense. I can, I can connect there because of what mother Coral said episodes back. Like she doesn't realize how powerful she is. Right. So I get that, right? Because they never showed OSHA
00:35:20
Speaker
as powerful as power ro May. But we knew she was powerful, right? And this is us again, maybe that. That showing that was us getting a glimpse of how powerful she is and chimer obviously seeing that too, right? So again, I liked it, but just it was like you're saying it was so quick. I wish we would have got a Little bit more and again a little more understanding of what she saw again I know she verbally said it but like I would have loved again. Maybe just maybe that's just me or you like I would have loved to see what she was seeing just like little pieces fragments and
00:35:57
Speaker
It just maybe would have helped. I don't know. Maybe not. If anybody that's listening to us wants to know who Darth Momin is, ah the Vader 2017 comic is where it appears and you get to learn about it. And that's one of the best comics. Heck yeah. Carl Sowell just completely crushes that. So yeah, that's a highly recommend from us ah if you don't. If you don't read comics, it's worth your while. I think the whole like series is probably out on like a book or like a, you know, like the big whatever. Yeah, it might be hard to find, but. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Go to your, again, hey, support your local comic book shop, kids. They'll probably get one. They can probably get one for you.
00:36:39
Speaker
But yeah, so again, I liked it. But again, just a little bit more. But again, the acting like Manny acting possessed and all that stuff. And then like a mandala, like free, you know, showing how like freaked out she was seeing what she was seeing. Right. Like that i again, the acting has never been an issue for me in this show. It's been really good. Solid all around. And then we go again, you talked about the soul and may of it all. Like Soul, at least show some, like so I don't know where this all changed, right? Like I just, like, I don't know if he was, again, I think maybe he was on just a path of his own kind of, I don't know about resolution or just kind of what Torben, right? He kind of, I mean, i I kind of get,
00:37:31
Speaker
Maybe they're just, they're all tortured in a different way and that's why Torben did what he did and this is why Sol did what he did. Because maybe he knew in the end he wasn't going to survive this, right? Either he was going to die or he was, I think, if he would if he didn't die, maybe he would have told the council. Yeah, I mean, that's the whole reason he was he called Venestra there, because he was pretty much convinced convinced in his head that he was gonna get Osha there, he was gonna get Mae there, and he was gonna be able to tell the story of the virgins and the creation of these two, and that would get him off the hook, right? Or well to explain why he kept this a secret for for so long. And he tried to explain everything to Mae, but she got out again.
00:38:19
Speaker
and He was about to tell her, explain that she was not a twin, right? Because they don't even know any of this. Right. Right. That they were this virgins. Right. That they are actually the same person, but split into two. Right. So before he could do that, you know, she escapes with pips help. And she finds this, you know, she finds like this, the like a little. Escape ship. Escape ship. Yeah. Is that what you call it? Yeah, whatever.
Historical Use of "See You in Hell"
00:38:50
Speaker
So she's flying, they're outside of Brundok. Hang on a minute. How'd you feel about seeing you in Hell, Jedi? That was fine. Why are people mad about that? I saw like that going around. I'm like, has everybody not seen Empire Strikes Back? I know. And I'll see you in Hell. Yeah. Do we not know Han Solo says this? Like, what are we doing here? We are just grasping at straws. If that's what you're mad about, you're grasping, bro. You are grasping.
00:39:21
Speaker
Like then, yeah, you call you talk you tell everybody else they're fake fans. Have you seen Empire Strikes Back? You not know Han Solo says that. I'm gonna be honest. you know every time long get know Every time I watch Empire Strikes Back and Han says that line, I always go, I always think, is there hell? But there is. There's like a, it's called the voider or whatever. And then even in, ah A New Hope brew says there will be hell to pay. So hell is definitely a concept in the galaxy far, far away. That's been established. This isn't ruining your Star Wars. If you want to yell at somebody, yell at George, because he's the one that put it in the first two freaking movies he made. So let's move on from the whole hell in Star Wars. Good Lord. I can't believe people were mad about that. But they go again. They had, this is a great chase sequence. I love this.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, it was good. It was really good. I like going between like the the asteroid or whatever it was. like That was really cool. Here's where I have a problem. Basil, what is your deal, bro? Yeah, I know. What is your deal? That never gets explained. And this is, again, one thing that upsets me, I'll be totally honest, is that character. He's cool. Don't get me wrong. I love Basil. I like i like the whole like vibe and everything. Well, again, what? Why did he do the things that he did that never gets explained? What are you doing, bro? Like, I think they would he would have took her on the Brenda if he would have caught her. Like, that's right, because that I think that was where soul was going to like, they're at Brenda. I'm assuming he was going to take her down there. That was maybe maybe not, but.
00:41:08
Speaker
What are we doing? Like that confused me. And I still don't understand why he did that. Does it matter? No, but it's still, it's like, why, why, why? yeah I think it was to move the story along, right? Like you can't have soul kill me. And I don't think he was gonna kill her. I think he was just gonna maybe like Like maybe beam retractor and I don't think he was gonna shoot her. No, man. He primed his weapons He was gonna shoot that's what that was. he Yeah, maybe again. This is me I thought that it was him maybe trying to just get her like beam track her back in I Don't think he was gonna again. I did not get the sense that he was going to kill her in that moment but again Maybe that's where I'm reading again
00:41:55
Speaker
where I'm reading the story wrong or maybe that's where the show needed more explanation or just again, ah ah another beat to explain what his motives were. Was he trying to kill her? Was he just trying to get her back? I think he was just trying to get her back. Yeah, uh-uh. You say he was gonna shoot her. Yeah, and I think Headlong said in an interview like she wanted to give Basil like a hero moment and that there was also a scene that was cut out where Basil was actually there when ah Soul was interrogating May and he was kind of like uncomfortable about the way that Soul was behaving. So again, she said that she didn't want to use that scene because she felt like it would slow it down, but I think it needed it, right? yep And
00:42:50
Speaker
It was like just kind of the idea that ah Basil was just kind of like, what is this guy doing? Like, what is going on with him? So that it was as simple as that, a creature interview into being. Again, that's fine. And I can, I guess again, just Motives what again if that was a scene I would have loved to see that then cuz then that would have been like okay Yeah, that goes back to that I can connect the dots that makes sense his motives are understood Yeah, that's again. That's where I think sometimes sometimes for me this show does not hit the mark Right. Yeah, we shouldn't have to get the pace lean Yeah, we shouldn't have to get that moment explained in a in a post interview. I
00:43:39
Speaker
I agree. Again, that's not, and that's not a, not again, that's not a knock against Leslie or whatever, because I, and I want to talk about that towards the end of like what, what I think could have been a bigger culprit in this whole situation with this show. Okay. and i really It might not even be like a creative choice on Leslie's and oh no I don't think it was. It's, it might be more of a studio studio. We need to cut this out. Like we' it's not a kid's show. Let's go. We're moving this along. We we need to get under 45 minutes.
00:44:17
Speaker
Right again that I think that's the bigger culprit and maybe we can have a bigger discussion towards the end about that but right that's basically what I I agree. What Star Wars is for kids guys so give Basil some more time. Right I agree I agree so yeah so May crashes I'm Brenda Right. And that's kind of the first, like I'd say, what, 10 to 15 minutes, ah roughly from the beginning. Yeah. And we also get um Senator Raincourt on Coruscant. Right. This is where I want to. Yeah. This next section, I want to talk about that because this is where I think the show could have shined a lot more.
Jedi and Senate Tensions
00:45:03
Speaker
by having this Jedi versus Senate stuff. Because this section, Vernestra and Senator Raincourt was really good. This is where I think the show could have used more of this.
00:45:23
Speaker
Like really throughout the entire series, like sprinkle it throughout. Don't just shove it into the finale, man. Give me more of this. But you and I, we're fans, that stuff though, right? We're, we love the Senate, the politics of it all. That's why I love Andor so much, right? Cause it gives, we're deeper into the politics of it. And I love the Senate versus Jedi. Like this is good stuff, right? This is very George stuff. For me, this is what the prequels, right? This is a lot of the prequel stuff was a lot of political, right? Jedi versus the politics of it all. Yeah. And let's, let's talk about this again. We're going to talk about this section on itself because it's, it's a good chunk and it's really, really good. So let's talk about their interaction because really good stuff. There's some really deep, like.
00:46:18
Speaker
deep Jedi cuts that rain court is saying, right? He's like, he's calling, he's calling Vanessa route. He's calling her out and he's calling the whole Jedi order out, which again, this builds upon what we see in the prequels. Right? So let's talk about it. What's your thoughts on their whole interaction? Cause it's really good. Yeah. First of all, I love that it was David Harewood. He did a excellent job playing a Senator rain court. And he brings up a really great point is the Jedi have power. They're looked at as a religion.
00:46:57
Speaker
um And he feels like there needs to be some sort of checks and balances around that as well too. um The line about that it's not the force they control, it's that they're trying to control their own emotions was huge. I thought that was so awesome. Spot on. Yeah. Like he's he's pretty much saying like, I don't give a crap that you can lift rocks or like do magic. He was like, I think the idea that you're trying to pretend to be so peaceful and um controlled. Someone is gonna lose it. Someone is gonna snap. And we all know hes he's darn right. That's one thing that's happening currently in the show, right? And then it's also gonna happen in the future.
00:47:45
Speaker
So that I mean, I'm not even just talking about Anakin. You think about like Barris as well, too. There are plenty of times, uh, General Krell, right? There are plenty of times where Jedi just, uh,
00:48:02
Speaker
They lose their way. They lose their way. And it's not because of the dark side. It's because they're not allowing them to manage their emotions, which is really kind of crappy because in the high republic, they do. That's serious. Like if you read, um what was the last book? ah Temptation of the force right Yoda has a really great conversation with Elzar man about this and it's like Why did this stop? What put this on hold what made?
00:48:34
Speaker
What made Yoda not have a good conversation with Anakin? And I know you bring up, he believes in the will of the force and he may see the future, but he knows it's ever changing and he just wants to follow the will of the force. but And I'm not like bashing Yoda or anything like that. I just wish the Jedi as a whole were better at Not saying anger is a fear to the dark side. Anger is acceptable to feel. It's what you do with it, which allows you to stay in the light. That's what should have happened. And the reason why it stopped is crazy to me. And I've always thought that, man, if you just would have had a better conversation, I think this would have been different. Probably would have. Probably would have.
00:49:27
Speaker
And that's exactly like what's coming to light right here. And I love it. I'm here for it. Yeah. You're 100% right about. Rank or calling basically Vanessa and the whole order out like, listen, you guys think you're doing the right thing. But you're you're just whole like you are just. holding people back there are going to snap if you don't allow them to feel certain things, right? Like you're saying, like anger, right? Not not saying that you people should just automatically go to their anger and do whatever, right? It's again, like you're saying, teach people how to deal with that and point it in a more positive direction instead of destructive, right?
00:50:16
Speaker
but the Jedi never taught that. They just taught them to stay away from it and that it's bad, right? And then again, yeah. So he says, Jedi are a massive system of unchecked power posing as a religion, a delusional cult that claims to control the uncontrollable. Ouch. That's not just say F U to the whole Jedi order. I don't know what is. It's one of my favorite lines in this whole show because he's absolutely right though. Not saying not saying that he's right of like.
00:50:50
Speaker
thinking the Jedi are bad, because i that's again, maybe that's the vibe I get from him. Like he's basically like, you guys should not be dealing with it. Like this BS, right? I get where he's saying unchecked, you know, keeping them in check, but still. I think a little thing a little bit that's tough is that he's also grouping them all into an exact one. Exactly. Right? So yeah not all Jedi um are unable to... There are some Jedi out there that have great conversations with their Padawans and and they're their fellow knights to to have kind of conversations about how they're feeling. Well, at least you see that in the High Republic. But ah it's like he has a crystal ball and he knows.
00:51:36
Speaker
Right, and again, not that I totally 100% agree with him, right? I think he's still kind of a sleazy senator. Mm, how dare you? I know, right, how dare I? But again, he's not wrong in some of the stuff he's saying. I'm not saying that they should do away with all of this or that he's 100% right and Vernestra's wrong. No, no, no, no, no. The Jedi are there to protect, right? But like you're saying, Ange, clearly that got lost in the sauce throughout the years. Right? Yeah. The thing that's- Sorry, go ahead. No, go, go, go. What do you got? The thing that's like really interesting about this conversation, it almost shows like ah the temperature of like current politics, right? It's the the polarization of the two sides, like the extreme sides. Yep.
00:52:33
Speaker
and everyone grouping ah sides of politics into just one ah space, right? All of them do this. All of them do that. Good versus bad, right, yeah. Right? They're wrong. We're right. They do this. We do that. So it does it does show that happening now within the Senate. So and within the Jedi order. So um I mean, Vernestra is completely polarized ah in wanting to keep all this a secret. um And what we find out later in the episode, the lying. So it's it's crazy. Right. I mean, she basically like he's basically calling Vernestra out saying, you know, like you're keeping this whole secret like investigation. You haven't reported it to the Senate.
00:53:26
Speaker
you know Then her response is, well, I will report once I am done, which is fair, right? Fair. ah it's a It's a Jedi issue. Go back to Ahsoka being on trial and them trying to keep it within the Jedi temple and the Senate calling for a trial. so Again, utra all it's all tracks. So again, one of my favorite lines that he says to her,
00:54:00
Speaker
is when you're looking up to heroes, don't you don't have to face what's right in front of you. And that is in reference to him basically saying like the Senate looks up to these Jedi, right? Some of the, you know, like he's saying the majority of the Senate just looks at these Jedis in like awe, right? That they they are they are these heroes, right? But his his whole point is like, if you're looking at him, you don't have to see what's right in front of you. Right, you don't see the flaws, you don't see maybe what's going on. Which again, he's not wrong, he's not right, at least not wrong. So again, I wish we would have had more of this in the series throughout.
00:54:47
Speaker
Right. I, again, I'm a sucker and I think you are too for a good like Jedi Senate. I mean, politics stuff, right? Look at the Clone Wars. Look how much that had a lot of that interaction, right? It's good. Like I love all that. And I think I wish this show would have had more and I, I wish we would have had that guy in more because he did such a good job as Marine Corps. Like. where had Where was he the entire series? Bring them out earlier. What's really nice is you get to see a connection, right? Now you see the thread going from, if you read the High Republic, they um are the Jedi are autonomous and in what they do. They assist in the Republic, but they are still their own power. And then what we knew of after that was that they had to check in with the Senate. How did that turn? When when did that change happen? And now we actually get to see it. So I love that Headland puts that stuff in here so that we're able to go from one time one part of the timeline to the next and connect the dots. Right. it's good I mean, you can just see the clear path from, like you're saying, the higher public era to what happens at the beginning of the Phantom Menace, right? The complete downfall
00:56:10
Speaker
of the Jedi Order, right? The the the roof is caving, like everything's starting to crumble down, right? This is kind of where it's beginning. You see that, you see the continuous just, I don't even want to call arrogance of the Jedi, but like they're hubris, right? We always use that, the Jedi hubris. You can see it here as clear as day, and then while that, Destroys them and even mother and mother Anna say I called it 16 years before all this Right. She told told the Jedi like Your this will destroy you You're going to destroy yourselves and they do we see that so it is fun like I love that again. Those connections are great.
00:57:03
Speaker
Right. And again, I love this Jedi Senate stuff. I wish we had more, right? Again, one of my favorite things he does too is uses, may the force be with you, but in such a, in such a mocking way. Right? Like it's a slap in the face. It's not even, he's not honoring it, right? He's not honoring what, you know, saying, may the force be with you, right? How kind of important it is to the Jedi and maybe even the people too, right? Because we know, you know, it's not just the Jedi that say it, right? It's people that say it because they believe.
00:57:40
Speaker
They believe in the force, they believe that it means something. And to use that term in a way to maybe more mocking was really interesting. I liked it. I don't know about you, but I loved it. I loved Eddie, how you said it. Yeah, I definitely anticipated the delivery of it. The minute he was like, how do you say it? And I whispered.
00:58:08
Speaker
as we all do as fans. But again, just how he says it and he like kind of just looks at her like, you know, and she just looks at him back. So again, you see the beginnings of like the the back and forth of, you know, the Jedi Order and the Senate, right? This, we're autonomous, but we're here to help, right? Just that gray area. of how they you know how they operate like you're saying is vastly different than what it was you know hundreds and hundreds of years before the Phantom Menace so it's good stuff all right here the next section and this is where yeah boy we talked about it holy crap so we get a real quick scene of Kaimir and Osho getting ready to leave right because basically
Darth Plagueis Reveal
00:59:02
Speaker
osha tell you know Osha was telling Kaimir, with that vision, she wants to stop Mei. And he wants to maybe either kill her or like do whatever. right He has different motives than Osha. So basically, she knows where they are going. He doesn't. And so she's like, you're taking me or you're not going. right So they're on, they're basically getting ready to go. He tries to, again, suck her into being trained, right? But she's still sticking to this belief of, I am not my sister. I am not going to go down this path, right? And kudos to her, right? And he's like, all right, that's, that's fine. That's your last chance. And I won't bug you again. And as they're leaving,
00:59:51
Speaker
creepy hand and a weird face peeks out from the cave. I didn't immediately know that's who it was. But then I kind of like, okay, well, I vaguely know what that species Plagueis looked like. I'm like, I think that's it. Clearly, it was confirmed by all the tweets that I was seeing later on. So Ange, Your boy, Plagueis, we talked about this. Yeah. How did you feel? Talk about the scene. What do you got? I screamed. Um, I don't think I was looking at like, we're in the car and I don't think I was looking at my phone at this moment. Like, cause I felt like the scene was over and my mom was like, who's that? What is that?
01:00:37
Speaker
And I like look over and I see his muni face coming out of the shadows and I screamed and I was like, that's Darth Plagueis. I was like, oh my God. and Then my mind like started going through like what I know of Darth Plagueis in Legends, and I was like, why is he just hanging out in a cave? like When he was, prior to having Palpatine, he was heavily in the ah the banking clan. um he was you know He held prominent meetings with all the these figureheads across the galaxy. you know He was pretty sophisticated. Why the heck is he in a cave looking all dingy?
01:01:19
Speaker
So that's like where I initially go. so then But then I also think like he had a cave on his one little planet where he used to do experiments and stuff like that. I don't think that this is that planet, but I also don't think that this is Baldubnik anymore either. um Or maybe it is, and they're just going to take that part of the story out if we ever get there. so i was i I was pleasantly surprised. I still you know was was hoping more to see Tenebris. I felt like Tenebris was more
01:01:57
Speaker
Uh, fit the timeline better. And, um, knowing what Tenebris was doing, like picking up other, uh, you know, pupils to, to test and to see who would be his apprentice. Like that's what made sense to me, but seeing him and knowing that he is now like, I know he was in canon by name, but to see what he looks like, uh, I was like, man, what a time to be alive. So good. Wild times kids. Wild times for sure. So I know, I mean, I know when we talked a few, cause we, we talked about this idea, like a couple of episodes, right? About him showing up and.
01:02:46
Speaker
that Again with what we know with what you know in Plagueis, right? Would it match up? Are you okay with this? Do you feel okay that he's in the I know you just said you but you thought it might have been better for tenebrous to show up. So Again, explain for the people that don't know then maybe listen that they haven't read explain who tenebrous is their relationship to Plagueis But then again, how are you?
01:03:17
Speaker
So you're 100% okay that he, again, that it was him? Or do you feel still a little bit weird that it's actually Plagueis? That he's, you know, this is this is it. Like, this is this is our introduction physically of this character. Timeline-wise, I'm fine with it because there is a mention in the Darth Plagueis book where he says he had trained with his master for over 100 years. Munes have a really long lifespan And then Palpatine praises him and and is somewhat jealous that he gets to train for that long and and obtain all this information so over such long um time span because Palpatine is a human and we all know they don't live past 100 years. So that kind of goes back into the fact of them wanting to be immortal and and wanting to continue ah their lives well after their their time of death.
01:04:16
Speaker
So ah Darth Tenebris is in the Darth Plagueis book. He is a bith. Like, do you know what this look like? They have those big bulbous heads. They have the the eyes. He also had somewhat of a respirator as well, too, I think. Aren't they the creatures that are in the band? Yeah. OK, for those who again. but context the cantina band yeah you see in a new hope i believe right yeah yeah yeah playing like the saxophones or whatever those right with yeah um with what's the that uh yeah those are those are them those are best those are bits
01:04:55
Speaker
ah And he acquires Plagueis through like kind of a setup it feels like in the Legends ah version where Plagueis' mother and father were kind of ah pitted together to create a ah strong force um being because they were also strong in the force as well too and then ah When he came to a certain age, and ah his powers could no longer be ah like hidden from classmates. I mean, he threw one of the kids out of a window.
01:05:35
Speaker
Actually, he didn't throw him out of the window. he ah He goes, if you want to get down the stairs so fast, why don't you just jump out the window? And the kid goes and jumps out the window and dies. It's so good. Again, we don't condone. It's just fiction, kids. This is us not condoning that stuff. um But, and then that's how Plagueis gets him. And Plagueis teaches him a lot about the rule of two in hiding in plain sight. And and ah ah Darth, ah why can't I think of his? Darth Bane's ah vision of how the the Sith will come back into power. And they are they are deep within the lineage of it and continue to follow the process of it.
01:06:23
Speaker
So there's moments where Plagueis thinks that maybe Tenebrous didn't believe that Plagueis was ah strong enough or or the the one to actually bring them to to the to their goal. And that's most likely why he also trained another apprentice. And his other apprentice was also looking for apprentices, acolytes as well. So that's like where, and then he finds Palpatine after he had killed his master. That's in the first chapter. I'm not spoiling anything, so whatever. This is all chapter one, kids. But honestly, that book, right whether whether that's going to become canon, it's not, right or whether pieces of it are going to be pulled from it. But the story that has been written of Darth Plagueis is absolutely fantastic.
01:07:17
Speaker
ah it's it's a It's a dense book. It's it's a tough read. ah It's a great listen to. like It is absolutely great to listen to, but it's also absolutely great to read. know ah It is just fantastic, but I do not think it's for everybody, but I do think it's for deep Star Wars fans. Nice. so Again, book recommendation, that's the Plagueis novel. Darth Plagueis. Darth Plagueis novel.
01:07:48
Speaker
i Again without know again. The only thing I am aware of is just again the tragedy right? This is all we know as As far as if you haven't read the book right if you just maybe a more casual fan You know that story that helps tells Anakin during the opera right Darth Plagueis and his whole goal was to create life through the force right and So clearly this is again, a part of that part of his, his, his journey, it seems like, right? OSHA may again, are you right. We assume or not assume, but you can connect the dots of their existence is maybe push, like pushes plague us to learn.
01:08:42
Speaker
how the coven, how mother NSA did this, right? To create life. That's what he was always after. Palps was always after immortality, right? In in the novel, so is Plagueis. Okay, so it's different in the novel. Because again, from how I, from just watching the movies, you get the sense that Plagueis is more about creating life, right? stop people from dying, right? That's that's the excuse. Pops uses unanakin, right? Because that's what Anakin wants. Right, obviously, and knowing that, that's what he tells him. And again, maybe this is just a small, tale obviously, a small portion of the whole Plagueis motives, right, that Pops is telling Anakin to motivate Anakin.
01:09:30
Speaker
Right. Is that part of play this is motivation was creating life. So again, you can see this connection again, this is where this, this is where they do very good job of connecting. I think this era to the Phantom Menace, right? The beginning of the prequels where play gets me again, this story of these two of these twins who were, so you know, born as one created as two. through this virgins of the force, this is what he has always been after. Again, from the story that is told through Palpatine. So I love that, like I love the connection. Yeah, talk about connecting the dots. It's huge. So now, do you feel that Kaimir knows he's there? Or is he lurking in the background? What are your thoughts on that?
01:10:23
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know. I can't remember if Kaimir ever mentions having a master. No, he doesn't. As far as I can remember either. No, he doesn't really mention somebody else. that he's always, he has always been after an aculite. That's the only thing we know about his motives. But like, how does Khmer know about like, hortosis and like... Right, there's arguments, right? And like, Mei and Osha, like, there has to be a higher being above him that is feeding him this information. I just don't think Khmer's like, the one getting all of it, but then I don't know, we don't really know anything about Khmer, to be honest. Right, and then again,
01:11:08
Speaker
When he was talking to OSHA, you know, he said he made this, you know when he's when he ran into May He gave the offer to you know be trained and she took it right away So again, did he go after May or did May find kind like like you're saying? How did that turn out? Right again, that's another question which I don't mind having Assuming we get a season do mm-hmm That's a fun question to, I think, again, a fun one to kind of leave and answer later because, again, how did he know? Just like you said, how did he know? Did he run into? Did they did they see chimer? Right. Or was he told by Mr. Plagueis, like, hey, I feel something or whatever the case may be. Right. These two, these two people are important to my work.
01:12:08
Speaker
So I would love to know, hopefully we'll get that answer, right? Whether in a show, whether in a novel, whether in comic book, I, hopefully we get that that answer. But I love that, again, the play gets of it all. We'd love to see it, it's a good connection. It's a great connection, a deep, you know, again, a deep cut for a lot of fans, like yourself, and right, that are that have read this book. that know this you know this legend story and to finally have him in Star Wars officially officially like like again physically seeing him not just by name like you said earlier it's pretty big moment that's huge it's massive and I it blows my mind that there are people that wanted to see playlet Plagueis and then when they got Plagueis they were mad about it
01:12:58
Speaker
ah I don't know, man. You're never gonna... What? I don't know. I don't know. And he was immune. like Leslie Hedlund said like his species has been like identified, right? She wasn't going to break away from that. She wasn't going to make plague as a human or anything else. She kept him me as immune, which is awesome. Now our munes, have we seen before this? Have we seen them like in Phantom Menace or anything? Do we recall? ah So they're part of the banking clan. So they're so like sophisticated alien looking. I don't know if we've ever seen the way one looks in canon. I have i would have to believe. I think they've been in Clone Wars.
01:13:50
Speaker
Okay, I was gonna say, I wonder if they've maybe been in something. Oh, yeah, they're in ah Attack of the Clones. like Remember when they're on ah but whatever planet that is, and Geonosis, and there was a meeting with like the Techno Union, and then there's also Immune there. Okay, when Dooku was talking... Yeah, to that round table. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'll have to actually now I kind of need to go Rewatch that and get just another visual right cuz we only see his creepy hand in his face like we don't You don't see it any much else. But again, you know, that's play guess so that's huge again huge huge huge physical physically put him in the show and again a gives
01:14:39
Speaker
Fans that don't know, right? Like just casual watchers, maybe like our parents, like wanting to know or who's that? Well, push glasses up, it's this guy, right? That gives us Star Wars fans something to talk, like explain to other fans to get them hyped. I don't mind that, right? It's not like they put a subtitle, like this is Darth Plagueis with like arrows pointing. Like it's subtle, right? If you know, you know, and if you know, you can tell your friends, right? That's how I feel about it. So I love, yeah. Again, small scene was maybe what, like two, three minutes? Not even. so I mean, it wasn't even a full minute. ah But the biggest like OMG moment, probably in the series, you could argue with seeing him. That's huge. It's huge.
01:15:36
Speaker
All right, so now next section is basically where we're going out. Everybody's going to Brenda now, right? The Nester is heading there because the ah MOG tells them that they got a message from seoul right soul, right? Soul turned on his transponder. He wants to be found. Right. So everybody, the whole gang, we're going back to Brenda. We're going to see this through. And Brenda, this is where we're going to, you know, make our final stand. Right. So Vanessa goes, uh, I was a chimer and OSHA are there. Right. So is looking for may. So everybody we're all on Brenda kids. This is where the final, the final section start, uh, begins. So we see soul searching for may.
01:16:33
Speaker
And the again, they go to the old fortress of where they were. Right. And of course, they're going through these like moments of, you know, of what, where they were in the past. Right. So he sees he goes to where he was holding both kids. Right. At the moment before he chose to just.
01:16:57
Speaker
Help and save OSHA, right? And that's one thing he did tell me in the very beginning is that his biggest regret is not being able to save them both. Right? I can't believe his biggest regret is not being able to tell the truth.
01:17:15
Speaker
And the choices were made. Decisions were made. It is what it is. I don't disagree, but again, I, I'm fine with that type of stuff. Whatever. Like it is what it is, but we get, so we see the may like come out from that. Like the pit that she fell down. Right. Now was she okay? I didn't take it as she was hiding as much as She just appeared when he left, like she was climbing from where she was, right? Like where she crashed, she, how she got into the fortress was climbing through this area. I don't think she was hiding and and maybe into the matters, but how how did you read that? Like.
01:18:06
Speaker
A bit of both, right? Just kind of a coincidence that she was able to reach the top by the time he turned around. Maybe she was actually holding off, like waiting for him to walk away. ah Yeah, that's true. So that's true. Again, doesn't matter. No, but she appears from the pen and then she goes to her and Osho's old bedroom. Yeah. Right. Which again, You hear throughout this kind of part, you hear like echoes of what happened, right? through ah Through just like the background voices, right? Again, kind of cool, good stuff. And then Osha and Kaimir appear at the ah lift,
01:18:52
Speaker
right? And Osha's like, well, the only thing that we can do, which not totally true, but is to get this lift going, right? Well, obviously we know you can climb, it's gonna take longer, but you can climb like, um, folded and tormented. And then Kymer just vanishes. Yeah. And then he just like, it seems like he's appeared on the other side. Well, we have seen him float. That's what I kind of take it as. I mean, he can do a lot of things.
01:19:26
Speaker
I guess he can wipe memories he can do a lot of things but Yeah It was cool. I guess she I mean you had to get the door working again Right either way. Yeah, so again again. I just wonder if he My again my head goes okay, I wonder I don't know if I mean, it's probably not this, but I wonder if he was able to like, how a mother Anasaya and mother Korah were able to like, disappear? oh Did he figure that out and just be able to reappear? Again, probably not. But like, either he is really fast, which is probably more of the case, maybe. I mean, if he floated up, she wasn't looking up, why would you look up? She just looked around, so.
01:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he flew. I mean, he must have floated real fast. Could you imagine to see that shot? He's just floating. You sure about that? Well, right. Because again, it sounded like again how I took it because the sound effect, it sounded like he was on the other side. Right. It sounded like he was on the other side of that of the ah of the left. Yeah. So again, who knows, right? Again, one of those I just accept. He can, and Ninja vanished real quick and apparently Mei can too. Right. I was thinking about that. Yeah. So who knows how that all, right. Who knows how that works, but we get to the point where it's soul and Kaimir slash stranger, uh, finally meet up, right?
01:21:07
Speaker
and Again, this is some of the best fight choreography We have seen this is really good. I Had no issues with any of this fight sequence at all. Oh my god. It was awesome. It was great So again, well let's talk about this section as far as soul versus chimer. And then even then then the sisters, the sisters finally meet up, right? OSHA confronts May and their old room and they start fighting, which I didn't mind. though I think that was really, really good. It was a cool fight. So talk about some of the moments during this the fight, the fighting, because there was a lot
01:21:55
Speaker
Talk about, again, just your thoughts about this whole kind of section of them before the Jedi show up, right? A lot of good stuff. And some really good conversations between Osha and May, right? Sol and Kaimir, kind of going back and forth a little bit, but ah let's talk about this whole section, Ang. Which thing, which thoughts? Really good stuff, I thought. Really good stuff. Yeah, I really liked the direction of all of this and the editing. I really liked how the stories went back and forth. You got a little bit of Sol and Kaimir and then you got Osha and Mei having a conversation and getting into a fight as well too.
01:22:37
Speaker
um So like the performances of everybody is just top tier right now. The fight choreography is top tier as well too. It's just completely excellent. My favorite shot is actually the shot where Soul is like retreating and it's that slow-mo shot that everybody is complaining about, but it is straight from Crouch and Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I love that shot too. Yeah, that's what I mean. That shot is amazing. the the ah The pull out of the extra blade from Khmer is just like outstanding, soul utilizing, not just lightsaber technique, but force technique as well too to to defeat him but is awesome. And then the fight between Mei and Osha,
01:23:23
Speaker
The fact that they were matching ah each other through the whole like the majority of the thing was just a great call out to say, hey, they they have the same mind. They're the same person. They're going to fight the same way.
Osha's Confrontation with Mei
01:23:35
Speaker
And it was really awesome to be able to see that. I didn't think that we would. I never thought that we would see Osha and Mei fight because they're both played by a mandala.
01:23:48
Speaker
i I just thought all of this was great. And I also liked the buildup of Osha's anger that was coming through. She came in trying to talk sense saying, Mae, you did this. um You destroyed this place. You destroyed our lives all because you didn't want me to be a Jedi. And then Mae drops the bomb of soul. killed our mother and has lied to you the entirety of this time. And that is why you could never come to terms with your feelings. And it's not you that failed the Jedi. It was soul. And um I love that OSHA's reaction is anger in this moment. She just doesn't
Fight Scene Creativity
01:24:31
Speaker
like come to terms with it. She doesn't accept it. She is pissed. And it
01:24:36
Speaker
Her performance around that was absolutely awesome as well too so just the back and forth was great i want to say that these were some of the best parts in in the episode and in the series i almost feel like maybe this this was like such a focal point. for maybe the directing team that some of the other parts um got cut away or shortened down because they wanted to be able to let this this area of the story breathe, which they did, and it was great. But um I would have liked the entirety of the episode to feel like that. No, I understand. I agree. I wish it had the same right throughout the entire episode.
01:25:22
Speaker
Again, shot wise for the fight choreography was done really, really cool. I love that slow-mo shot that you're talking about, right? I love the when even soul kicks them, right? It's such a, yeah, such a, how'd you tie your head in dragon? Like it just, it's kill Bill. It's all of that, right? It's really cool stuff. I love when Kaimir throws the sabers and running at Soul, right? And then Soul does, like you were talking about, he uses like the force and like force pushes him back. That was really good. That was awesome. That was really, really good, right? And then yeah, Osha and Mae, I mean, Osha finding, again, being told what is true, but she doesn't want to believe it, right? Mae tries to tell her that, you know,
01:26:15
Speaker
All those angered feelings shouldn't be geared towards me, which, eh, he had some hand in it. And she calls
Dual Role Performance
01:26:24
Speaker
her out like, dude, you're the one that locked everybody in. right, and started that fire. Mae's not disarguing that, but she's like, yeah, but the Jedi invade, that's because the Jedi invaded our home. Like, her excuse and everything was a little bit, eh, okay, whatevs. I get it, right? I mean, we, she was more mad that Sol killed her mom.
01:26:47
Speaker
Right, but again OSHA never knew any of this so her telling OSHA That you know all that repressed anger or negative emotions that soul was teaching you right? Was because of him wasn't because of me which again agreed to disagree on that but again I I the negative emotions were obviously of her mother, but also what May did to her, right? From sapping her, becoming a Jedi.
01:27:23
Speaker
So yeah, that that fight though was amazing. It was cool. i It was cool to see how they did that. Like you're saying, with a mandala playing two characters, seeing that go back and forth, that was good. Like
Soul's Motives and Intentions
01:27:36
Speaker
again, how they edited it, you can obviously, you know, you're using a stunt double, right? The stunt double is, you know, the person that we only see the back of the head of, but we see a mandala's face. Like that, all that stuff was perfect. Like you believed it. You believed that it was literally a mandala. fight it herself. It was really, really good. It was really, really good, right? So we get to the point now where Sol breaks Kaimir's lightsaber, right? No. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after, right, so after this, right, he cuts it. Did you think he got him? Yeah, I did. I was a little bit concerned too. I was like, eh, but no, I was glad it was just a saber.
01:28:22
Speaker
Right. Well, I thought he got him because why would he just stay there? Like, why if he didn't get him, why wouldn't he just like come back and like get him? But right now, I mean, I get I think I understand. I understand sold motives because obviously he wants to prove that. There's somebody else, right? He wants to prove that there is this. Lumen being controlling May, right? So I understand that he didn't kill him, and that's why he just disarmed a saber. Again, Kymer not leaving. I mean, I guess maybe he thought that either a Which she did may would come and help him, right? Or that again He gets caught he gets caught and it is what it is, right? So maybe he just didn't care either way. Maybe that's why he didn't fight back but then so we again may come steals the lightsaber from him and
01:29:19
Speaker
Kaimir does his whole Sith thing where like, you know, complete your training, you know, defeat him and all that, right? Yeah. Again, goes back and forth between Osha and Mei all the time, which again, this is where I get a little frustrated with the show. It's like, my dude, pick a person. Clearly you like them both, but like, or you like one better. Right. Why don't you just stick with that one? But what
Mei's Desire for Justice
01:29:45
Speaker
are we doing? He needs a the act of the act of rage and anger. Right. Right. but He needs to see it. So going to commit to it. Right. He who's going to do the dirty work. Right. So again, to maze, I think I'm a little bit shocked.
01:30:07
Speaker
She throws the saber down and says, no, dude, I want him to confess his crimes. I want him to be basically shown to the galaxy how evil in her mind, right, that the Jedi are. She wants him to confess his crimes, right? Confess it to the High Council, to the to the Senate, to everybody, right? And Khmer probably wasn't too cool with that, but Then all of a sudden May shows up or Osha shows up. Hang on. After her. Right. So May gets sold to confess that he killed the mother. Yes. And again, does it seem too resentful for it? Not at all. He he continues to say I did the right thing. I was like, dude, shut up. Like what? You're not making anything better right now. Why are you?
01:31:05
Speaker
not taking responsibility. I mean, you're speaking to to this person you killed's daughter. It reminds me of Mace Windu talking to freaking Boba Fett after he had killed Jango Fett. Remember that crap? Oh, yeah. And Clone Wars, right? Yeah. What a jerk. Again, Jedi and their hubris. I mean, what are you going to do? I mean, again, that is that a bigger theme here? Is just them being so Arrogant at times right again. They're not the villains They're not the villains of this of the show clearly chimer and Plagueis are But you get but I like again Part of what I like about the show is how they are showing us the Jedi in a different light Right
01:31:59
Speaker
But again, we get to where Sol confesses and explains to Mae finally that yes, obviously he killed the mom, but it's because she artificially created you, which again, this is all new to both of them. Right. Right. That there is a virgins on this planet. They used it and created you both, but you're not even twins. You are the same person split into two. Right. And you can see Kaimir listen to all this. Like, okay. Is he thinking, yeah, this is what my master was telling me. Maybe again, we don't know, but I think they would add up. Is he thinking, I bet my master knew about this and kept it from me. Again, could be the case. Hopefully we will find out in season two, like renew a hundred percent. We're a hundred percent renew this show.
01:32:51
Speaker
So then again, after he explains and says that he killed or killed the mom, explains who they are, and then he feels like he did the right thing, which again i understand again, I understand that he does feel that way, right? He feels that they did the right thing at that moment, but clearly,
01:33:16
Speaker
I think he was just telling that him like I feel like a lot of this was just so like just telling himself like, okay, I did the right thing. I did the right thing, right? Like trying to convince himself of it. He's had 16 years to do that. I don't know. I agree. I agree. But I
Osha's Character Development Moment
01:33:33
Speaker
think this is just right. I feel like this was a moment to come to terms with it. Right. And I think maybe he was going when, when OSHA steps in, I think maybe that's when he, Maybe that moment, like you're saying, like of him wanting to just. Be gone every like all of this and just. Like absolve himself. Right, because he yeah you know she's asking him and I was this true. And he tries again, he tries to defend that again, they did the right thing and he's doing it protect them, but he's also doing it because he again loves OSHA. Again.
01:34:17
Speaker
Right, because before he starts choking her, I think that's what he was gonna say. Sounds like anyway.
01:34:25
Speaker
Again, that still is a little weird to me, even at this point. That he loved her? It just gives- I mean, we don't have a backstory on that. Right, again. That's what I'm saying, though. But that's what he was going to say. At least that's how I took it before he started choking. He was going to tell OSHA that he loved her. Right. Now, again, love can mean a lot of different things, right? Doesn't mean like an intimate relationship, just that he loved and cared for her. But it still
Kyber Crystal Bleeding
01:34:56
Speaker
kind of comes off a little weird.
01:35:00
Speaker
but then Osha chokes him and even tells her like it's okay to like fully just to to kill him. I think he was ready. See, you know, I think he was ready at that moment. But she doesn't need his permission. Just let her do it. Oh, no, no, I agree. I know from that perspective. Yes, I get what you're saying. Like it should be in her terms, not because he said and gave emotion. I agree with that. I agree with that. But again, he kind of gives us okay. She does it and she does, and she feels bad, right? But even during this moment, she was holding a lightsaber and you could see the Kyber crystal start doing some weird stuff. bang Again, all well this this was cool stuff. This was cool, cool stuff. This was cool stuff. This was a live and in-person bleeding of a crystal.
01:35:58
Speaker
that we have never seen, at least in live action. We've seen it, or at least I've seen it. And again, the one thing that comes to mind is Jedi, ah the latest Jedi ah fallen, Jedi survivor, or one of the characters does this in front of Cal. Like straight up does it. And it's pretty cool. This is pretty cool too. This is pretty cool. Pretty cool. But she, again, Osha, you can tell she, I think she feels bad for what she did, right? I think she's just going through a lot of emotions. I personally think that the turn, again, I get it because of what the information she has learned. I get the bonus. I don't have a problem with her like turning bad. I have a problem of how it was executed.
01:36:47
Speaker
I think I think it was just it happened so fast like she has always I feel like throughout the series It felt that like she asked me really respected soul, right? She looked up to him. That was her old master, right? She wasn't even gonna give him time to like Whatever like I get that she's mad and I get that I She killed his mom and everything. She's learning this for his first time. I just feel like the turn was too quick for me.
01:37:19
Speaker
Well, I mean, she had a few moments to think it over because that's what Mae told her, right? So she didn't, she wasn't like blindsided by soul telling her this. But I think soul confirming it, I think again, I just, say again, I don't have the issue of her changing. I just had the fact, the fact that she did it and didn't even give much of a chance for soul to explain. Cause I mean, again, she didn't like, she just straight up started choking to him. Well, he tried to explain. He said, like, he f flat out, like, says to her that the order would have sent her away and you were too old to train. And he keeps saying he did it what was best for her. That's not what anybody wants to hear when you find out that someone kills your mother and lied to you for 16 years. Right. no There was no no sense of responsibility of him and and regret and remorse. He just continued to to say, I had to do it for you.
01:38:15
Speaker
it was It was crazy. So to me, her turning then, I would think like, I mean, you're the most angry when when you're in a situation, right? you're you know your anger starts to dissipate and fuse like maybe after 90 seconds of of having a ah ah ah moment of being in a situation, anything like that. So she's in that 90 seconds. She's in that. like this is This is the peak of her anger and madness and hurt. like This is the peak. this is It will never be higher than this. So it makes sense to me that she had she bleeds the crystal now.
01:38:57
Speaker
Nora, again, I had not an issue of her changing, of her, the crystal bleeding, any of that. I just feel like the her turning on soul that fast, I just feel like it was just a little, again, for me, it was just a little too quick, right? Because of all the of, I guess, of their history. That's where I go back to, of like, she was his padawan, she trusted him, Again, and he betrayed that trust, 100%. I don't, again, the motives are there. I don't have a problem with her turning. I just feel like it was just super quick that she just was like, all right, I'm gonna choke you to death. I stopped talking. That's just for me. Again, maybe I'm in the minority of that, that's fine. I just feel like it
Osha's Transformation Analysis
01:39:46
Speaker
wasn't as earned as I would have hoped for if that makes sense. Lauren, I wanna say that I said out loud, kill him.
01:39:56
Speaker
I mean, even when he didn't own up to it, i I'm pretty sure I said out loud out loud. Kill him. I was ready for it. Again, at this point, I agree. Like, I mean, he I think he knew he was done. Right. I mean, it didn't matter regardless. I don't think he was going to survive either way. Right. Whether he confessed his crimes or if he died by chimer, by May, by OSHA, whatever. I again. I think yeah maybe this speaks to a larger issue I had with the characters of Osho and Mei, not the acting. Right. But the character of Osho and Mei, I just. I didn't connect to as much as I was hoping I would throughout the series, if that makes sense. So maybe that plays a part of it for me. Where just maybe that disconnect. Was there, and that's why maybe I just didn't feel
01:40:58
Speaker
That that turn was earned So again, that's where I'm at with it again I Understand it and I and I'm for it like I actually like this because you talked about it like a while while back to That this could be it right that this could be what happens and you were a hundred percent,
Episode Conclusion and Future Setups
01:41:18
Speaker
right? So again, I don't mind it. i' I'd like I like this idea. I just feel like the execution for me is could have been a little bit better, right? Again, that's just my, my thoughts on that whole, I loved it though, because then Kaimir tries to like console her or whatever, right? And she's like, back off, bro. Bro, I'm waiting for you to get the hell out of here. And she likes the lightsaber and it's blue, but then it starts churning red. Again, pretty cool.
01:41:54
Speaker
Prickle stuff, pretty cool stuff. It's not bad. I don't hate it. It was cool. So then even it, I think even Mae was kind of, I think shocked, right? Like I felt, I felt that like when you would pan, when they panned a Mae watching this, I think she, you she was even like, Oh, okay. Like. Yeah, I think in that moment she was like, I kind of wish she didn't I didn't do this to her. Right, because I think May, again, yeah, she didn't like the Jedi because of what they did, right? But i again, I think May's, I understand May's motives more than Osha's a little bit. Again, not that I don't understand Osha's perspective of learning this information from ah ah you know about a guy, about an old master that she 100% trusted, right?
01:42:44
Speaker
from like even as a young kid, right? I just feel like May's like whole purpose was she wanted him to confess. She wanted these Jedi's to confess what they did, right? Because she wanted them to be place in the limelight of like, no guys. Just kind of what like what senator, what's his face wants to do, right? They want to put the Jedi in this light of, hey, we really need to kind of look at this more and not just let them just do what they want, right? But then, you know, Osha's like, nah, I'm just gonna kill him. Which again, I have no problem, like I get it.
01:43:28
Speaker
I just don't feel it. It was as earned as I was hoping for in that moment. But then, uh, you know, we see Venetia. So now we're basically at the end, we get the last, last bit of chunk here to talk about kids, but.
01:43:46
Speaker
Vanessa shows
Kaimir's Escape
01:43:47
Speaker
up with her gang. She immediately senses Kaimir and he is tripping out and scared as hell. He puts on that mask so fast. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And again, Manny just sells that scene for me. Like he immediately, you know, she senses. She throws kind of senses the force and it immediately he feels it and she feels it and he was like, oh Shit and throws that helmet on so fast So again, we talked about that connection is he connected to Venetra and he is we get it confirmed, right? That that is her old pupil that turned evil which again I I'd
Osha and Mei's Diverging Paths
01:44:33
Speaker
like that's a that's a tale of
01:44:36
Speaker
right, of Star Wars, of Jedi turning evil. We talked about it earlier, right? We can name all these Jedi that went down the wrong path, right? So again, I like that. I like that, again, there's a connection between Vernestra and Chaimir, slash, you know, stranger, whatever his real name is, right? And then I, again, so he, he, Ninja Vanishes, The girls again, we find out and get confirmed how may survive the fall. Right. Because she takes her back to that pit that she um may take social back to the pit that she falls down. They climb down and they go through again. This is all like empire strikes back. Luke falls down and gets sucked into the, uh, whatever.
01:45:29
Speaker
Yeah. That core tunnel. Right. It was cool. It was almost like it was shot just like, yeah, they walked into it. It was like, it was shot just like the Empire Strikes Back. I loved it. Yes. Yes. That was like perfect. Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. Cause that was very, very cool. I loved all that. Right. So they, then they meet up at the tree, the Jedi find them, but there's a lot, again, a lot of stuff that happens in between all, all of this, right? And then they again, they, the Jedi get May again, we're going to get into details, but just just trying to wrap it up. The whole thing is they find May.
01:46:08
Speaker
She's mine wiped. We'll talk about that in a minute. They take her back to Coruscant. Vanessa tries to talk to her realizes that basically her mind is wiped. Right. We find out Vanessa's lying her ass off to the Senate. Right. We see that great shot of OSHA of OSHA and chimer together, holding hands. We'll talk about that. And then we get the cameo of Yoda. We'll talk about that. But a lot
Venessa's Moral Struggles
01:46:32
Speaker
of stuff happens in the end and this last like 10 to 15, like 10 minutes or so happens real quick. So, Ang, let's talk about this last end of the episode. A lot of stuff, a lot of details, a lot of information being shared. What do you think? Where do you go with this? All this talk about it.
01:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, I like the way it kind of like the kill was like the big part. And then there's like a prologue that has to happen. Reminds me of like an aftermath of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Like the revenge of the Sith where you see Obi-Wan and Yoda deciding like where are the twins going to go? And you see Padme's funeral and you see like all of that. So. Yeah. I liked that a bunch of stuff just happened. Uh, some things that I felt weird about was the mind wipe. Like, again, I just don't get like, and I don't, uh, I don't want to sound like this, right? Because like when Ray force healed everybody in the rise of Skywalker, everybody was like, what? And I kind of feel the same way about come here. Like, why can he, why can he
01:47:41
Speaker
read minds. Why can he wipe minds? Why can he ah disappear? You know, like all that stuff. It just doesn't seem earned like you've been saying, but whatever. All right. It like moves the story along. And I i do think them wiping Mei's memory is very impactful. it And and devastating. It reminds me immediately
Jedi Moral Complexity
01:48:11
Speaker
of Hermione, wife, obliviating her parents memories before they go off and it definitely follows. So, and to think that they just reunited and had and and came to terms with everything that that happened between them. And now she,
01:48:34
Speaker
Osha gets to go train with, um, Kaimir. Kaimir and then May's left to deal with the Jedi. And it's like, uh, I don't know. It just like when, when May says, what do you want Osha? And then she acts like she's doing some sort of sacrifice by being a part of the Sith or being trained by this dark side user and Leaving her sister to deal with the jedi right the aftermath of it all right. I mean it's they're completely they're completely switching right and Which you call you use that again you call that a long time ago But it's also like the yang and the yang of it right because you have
01:49:30
Speaker
ah This this person that has possibly turned to the light but has this dark past and then you have this person that Attempted to turn to the light and and it is now choosing the dark side So and considering that they're the same person. It's it's very yin and yang. So that I like but It was just kind of disappointing that they are breaking ties. And I know that Osha says to me that she'll come find her and Mei says she knows she will. um That makes me hopeful for ah more of a story. So their story is not over with. I don't think that they're never going to see each other any. but And I understand having to do the mind wipe to keep her protected from the Jedi in a way instead of
01:50:20
Speaker
Relying on her maybe having to lie about all of it is fine as well, too. And then keeping, ah what's his name? Kymir Secret? i The Sith need need to keep their their presence unknown, so I get it. It just
Speculating Future Storylines
01:50:39
Speaker
was a little awkward for me. No, I you know, i I agree with a lot of what you're saying again execution I get it right like it all makes sense Execution could have been a little bit better. Maybe of the situation like I guess I question like why not bring them both Right, like why not all three go but again, I Guess I you again in my head. I'm like, okay. Well chimer only wants one right? He only wants and act like he just wants a pupil and
01:51:08
Speaker
But he could have been greedy. He could have got two, but yeah, but he knows maze not in that mindset anymore. She didn't want to kill soul. and She wanted him to just confess to his crimes. Right. So, I mean, I think he obviously in the end found the true true acolyte, right? Like it's OSHA, which again, I don't mind. Like I love that. Like I actually like that. Like character arc. I just felt like it was at the very end a little bit unearned. But I understand it and I like it. Cause we, this is again, I haven't really seen this before in Star Wars, right? Like this whole like Jedi, like it's just how her arc played out. I feel like it's new. like Like, or maybe just a fresher take on it.
01:52:01
Speaker
of how that of how they could fall. right i I like that. like I don't mind it. like I don't mind those choices. Again, like you're saying, I think it could have been executed differently, especially with the chimer mind wipe. But again, I chalk it up to clearly he's been trained. right We just don't know yet. Clearly he
01:52:27
Speaker
he knows how to do these things whatever again like i don't i don't that stuff doesn't bother me as much if that makes sense like okay whatever dude he can mind wipe break and heal people okay we're moving on right like we know jedi can play mind tricks right so mind wiping okay i guess i could buy that leap do i think it was executed great maybe not because it was obviously there for the story, like you're saying, right? But again, that I guess that stuff doesn't bother me as much as other things, right? But I think what really, again, and I think this is what the show wanted me to feel, what bothered me more was Vernestra straight up blaming Soul for Everything. Dang.
01:53:24
Speaker
That was cold blooded. Talk about a fall from grace. But again, we've seen that story, right? Like we've seen these, these Jedi, even, I mean, even Yoda to his, to his character, right? He felt like he failed, right? And that's why he exiles himself. But I guess instead of exying herself, Renesha was like, I'm just gonna lie. I'll just continue this lie. Cause we are, you know, these four started it 16 years ago. Might as well keep up the charade. Right. But now it, but I feel like again, I don't mind it. It hurts still that she would do this. Yeah. Right. I think maybe that's part of it too. But I think ah again, I think this leans on the expectation that maybe they have that they're going to have a season two.
01:54:23
Speaker
Right. Cause it really
Venessa's Character Development
01:54:24
Speaker
heavily really relies on that. If, if they, again, if they want to even tell that story, maybe they don't, maybe this is just the story she wants. And then, Hey, if somebody wants to do it later on, God bless. But I would hope again, this is where I do hope. Act like it's renewed because I do want the story to continue. Cause like we talked about at the very beginning, there's a lot to tell still, right? Yeah. But yeah, again, my, this, Vernestra, just straight up lying to the, like this little Senate committee, right? Raincores there, he's like, all right, well, now we were really checking into this. And then her, again, doubling down on, it was one guy, a faulty gentleman, who in the same token, in the same breath is telling May, right? That he was a good person.
01:55:22
Speaker
But she is blaming him, says that he, you know, ah unallied to himself, right? Basically giving that idea out when clearly we know that she gave him, she gave him a proper Jedi burial, it seems like, right? The pyro. Yeah, she did a pyro, yeah. Right. so
01:55:45
Speaker
But her again, no lie. Can you also see her apologize to him, right? Because you don't see that initially when Kamir is watching her. You see her lean in, but you don't know. So now you learn that she leans in and says, I'm sorry, my friend. Because when
Jedi Order's Portrayal
01:56:03
Speaker
she arrives too, maybe just to mention this because we didn't, because we kind of just overviewed the last of it because there's so much. But she does basically feel and sense what happened that day 16 years ago, right right? So she knows the true story. So that's why she was, but that's why she knew she was basically able to do this and pin it on him and it would go away, right? And I just, I get it. I don't mind. Like, I don't like, I'm not like angry that she did it. I'm just like, dang, like that's cold-blooded and disappointing. But again, it falls in line with just how
01:56:48
Speaker
How far the Jedi Order fell at this point, right? And how it just continues and leads to their complete downfall, right? By Revenge of the Sith. What did you think of all the all the Vanessa of it all at the end? Because we'll get we'll get to Yoda, obviously, in a minute, too, but. In the ocean and time yourself, but with Vanessa and the lion and everything, how'd you feel about all that inch? It was disappointing. There's a moment in time where the lying has to stop. You have to come to terms with what you've become and you have to um take responsibility for it and be held accountable. And the fact that she didn't choose that moment
01:57:36
Speaker
Uh, to do that was, was very disappointing. Doesn't mean that I hate Vanessa or hate this show or or anything like that. Um, it, it does track honestly tracks, but it was, it was really disappointing. I mean, and Vanessa has lived a hundred years. I was just going to say, you're obviously, you're deep in the high Republic. You, you're well more versed in this character than I am on that perspective. How did, yeah. Well, maybe not a hundred years yet. Cause we're in like one 32 BBY. So she's pushing a hundred, like pushing whatever, um, they can live. She, she is also species that has a longer lifespan.
01:58:25
Speaker
So, I mean, we still don't know what happens at the end of the High Republic. There might be something that happened that jates her and allows us to see this, uh, this finestra that is about secrecy and, and all of that. So.
Yoda's Cameo Implications
01:58:44
Speaker
It makes me want to finish The High Republic and get those, you know, those, those books won't be finished. That story won't be finished off until 2025, I believe. So, um, to know what happens to Vanessa at the end of that will maybe help us give us more context to the way that she is now. Because what we know of Vanessa right now, this just is way different. So yeah, that's what I, that's what the sense I get from reading people that are big high republic fans like you like they're not yeah they're not like oh my god they like ruined her character it's just that it was a disappointment that the character would do this but like you're saying it all tracks though right like this is how this is what happened to the jennai this is the downfall of it i think that's part of the bigger i think maybe theme or whatever you want to call it for the show
01:59:42
Speaker
was showing just how far the Jedi Order really fell towards the end, right? Towards the end of the High Republic and heading into this, you know, the fain of menace. The other thing that's frustrating about this is that at the end when Vernestra realizes that May doesn't even remember her sister, that she says she's going to use her to help find her former padawan. Again, just like the selfishness of it and very different from the Vernestra that we knew
02:00:23
Speaker
So I don't, it's, and the ending was a little, ah it wasn't disappointing. it It left the story flowing, but it made you really question, and it doesn't, it is not making the Jedi look bad or saying that the Jedi are the villains, but it's it's bringing up the questions of, If you do these things that the Jedi do, ah hold back your emotions, keep the truth from coming out, repress trauma and act like it never even happened because you're scared that you're going to become a monster. That is not the way to live. So I i think some fans just aren't that deep.
02:01:14
Speaker
So like how we are, so they don't necessarily see the like the lesson kind of like how like it happened in Boba Fett, but I see it and it makes me want to continue to see the rest of the story. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree with you on that. Like. It's the the point of this again. I think maybe we had to ask Leslie Helen and Leslie Headland This is a open invitation for you to come on this show. So if everybody's listening and knows her Send her a stellar to email us the glad to podcast at gmail dot.com so I think again a thing that Throughout the series I think they did a good job of is showing the Jedi in this completely kind of
02:02:04
Speaker
different light than we are used to, right? Like, again, yeah. In the Phantom Menace, you could, you know, I think a lot of fans were like, man, that's the Jedi weren't as the heroes that we thought, right? And again, that I think that was George's point. even back then
Osha and Kaimir's Unique Relationship
02:02:21
Speaker
was like, you know, these, this is, there's a, there's a reason why I'm telling this side of the story, right? Yeah. There's a reason why there's no more Jedi when I told you the first part of the story and they had a little bit of a hand in it. Right. That they're not completely absolved of everything. And this is just a story of that, right? But in a smaller,
02:02:46
Speaker
a more focused lens, right? Instead of like a broader lens. So again, yeah, maybe as fans seeing this type of storytelling of the Jedi, it can be a little bit hurtful, right? And we can feel disappointed. But again, if you look at it thematically, it fits every single thing that George has ever said, right? And that anything that really Star Wars has come out with, right? Like it it fits. this is not like
02:03:18
Speaker
a Like a a left turn right this is following those beats I Feel right. I don't know if you feel I mean I think I think it's fair to say that you probably feel the same way So yeah, is it disappointing that this is what? Happened and that Vernestra felt that she had to continue the lie Yeah But I think Again, her motives were obviously A, to keep the Senate out of their business, right? That was definitely a motive. B, now that she knows that her, it involves her pupil, she needs to take care of it. I bet you she feels
Secrecy and Morality
02:04:05
Speaker
like that's, again, her problem that she needs to fix herself, right?
02:04:13
Speaker
But again, she's definitely going about it a way that maybe she should not be going about it a hundred percent. So again, yeah, it's all fascinating. These again, these character choices that they that they did at the end, especially with pedestrian with soul and, you know, having him take the fall for everything, making him out to be this rogue Jedi that she even says in that committee meeting. It sucks. It sucks. But again, it's compelling storytelling, right? Because we again, this is something new that we haven't really seen in Star Wars, at least in this type of lens, right? In this type of way. And I like aye didn't mind this. i And I think the point of of this was for us to feel bad, right? As fans of Jedi. like
02:05:11
Speaker
It's meant for you to be like, man, do they? Yeah. This sucks. The Jedi Order sometimes isn't maybe the greatest, but that's okay. That's okay. So then, um again, we're going to get to, or let's, we'll jump into her, what's this, Ron Varneshara. In the very last shot, before we talk about Kaimir and Osha, their very, their last scene. We see Vanessa go and seek counsel from Yoda. ah she wants to I think she said she wants to speak to him about something. Yeah. There was a scene before where she's reaching out to someone and she's like, yeah, I know he's busy or whatever she says. So obviously in that moment, she was trying to connect with Yoda.
02:06:04
Speaker
So she walks in, she's you know and she's like, I need to basically speak to you, and it's Yoda, puppet Yoda, by the way. Yeah, puppet Yoda, love to see ya. So again, my head cannon goes in a lot of directions. I grapple with, is she gonna tell him the truth, or is she just gonna keep um pushing this this narrative of the lie?
02:06:34
Speaker
I mean, I think she would
Hopes for Second Season
02:06:35
Speaker
be pushing the narrative, but maybe not. Maybe she's gonna tell Yoda the truth. But then again, that would bring up questions of him later on, right? So where do you go with all of that cameo? What does that mean to you? How how do you take her visit to him?
02:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, up to this point, the Jedi aren't necessarily shown in the best light. So when you see Master Yoda, you kind of still have this feeling of she's going to tell him what's happening and he's going to- He gives hope. He gives hope maybe? Yeah. I think he's going to keep the light. I don't think he's going to keep the light going. I think that's a possibility. I think you can't lie to Yoda.
02:07:26
Speaker
ah
02:07:29
Speaker
I think he probably, right. No, he would know straight off. ah But it also like makes me reflect back to that moment where he's meditating with Anakin and Anakin's trying to tell him about his visions and he's really vague about it and just kind of fluffs him off. So ah is that going to be something like this as well too? will If we get to season two, we'll pick right up from this moment and we get to see this conversation or will we as fans have to continue ah guessing that either she lied to him or she told him the truth and now he continues to hide what's going on.
02:08:10
Speaker
But i I think in reality, like the most likely story is that she skirts around trying to tell him what's going on, like Anna Kindid, and he ah does what he can to give them advice about the Force ah without knowing the details of like what's going on. i wish I wish Yoda just would have been like, listen, I know you're married. I know only your visions are about losing your wife. Let's talk about this. Just call her out on the high republic visions she's having. Directed by George Lucas, right? It would be over. You can't do that. Redirected. He has to learn for himself and she probably does too and that's the way Yoda teaches. so
02:09:01
Speaker
i I think it was a pretty cool cameo, honestly. like People had asked Headland before, like was Yoda gonna be in the series? Because obviously he's alive during this time. And she said no. So good thing in like she didn't say yes. So um i just i I just thought it was a it was a good ah good spot for him. Yeah, I get it. Maybe you did too. like You knew where she was going. right
Show's Impact and Reception
02:09:32
Speaker
i got Like when she opened the door, she's like, master, you know, I have, you know, I need to talk to you or whatever. And then they've slowly panned down to Yoda, right? Like I wasn't completely like, Oh my God, it's Yoda. Like I kind of figured, right. I mean, I don't know if you were that way. Like, Oh, okay. It's Yoda. Cool. Like cool cameo. I'm cool with it. It didn't like move me either way. If that makes sense, you know?
02:09:57
Speaker
Yoda's pretty prevalent throughout the High Republic, so I'm not surprised. Right. I mean, again, I think that was maybe more for a casual fan. Yeah. You think, right? I mean, I think that moment was definitely for a, oh, hey, if you're a casual fan, you remember that guy? He was pretty cool. He's still pretty cool. He's still around, right? So I get that. Maybe just because we are so knee deep in this, like, it's just like, oh, okay, cool, Yoda. All right, well, what well what what happens after that? Like, that's where I go, right? Like, what was her conversations? Does she lie? Does she keep the lie? Or does she, you know, tell the truth? I'm with you. I wonder if it is a bit of a combination of truth, but not explicitly the truth. I feel like Yoda, again, for me, Yoda is always that guy that really knew everything before everybody else.
02:10:55
Speaker
You know, like. I wonder if he maybe maybe not a full picture, but maybe he knew what was going on before she came in. Right through the forest, I just. Maybe not again, maybe not full picture of it, so.
02:11:17
Speaker
I don't know if she, again that's where I guess, I wonder if she lies, he he knows she's lying or maybe it just confirms what maybe he has seen before in his visions or whatnot, I don't know. But I wonder if, yeah I think I leaned, I think I leaned towards you where it's like, eh, she's not telling the truth, but she's not like, She's not explicitly lying, I guess, maybe, and in in so many in in so many ways.
02:11:49
Speaker
But i'd be I'd be very
Praise for Performances
02:11:50
Speaker
interested. I hope we get to know what was said, because I do want to know what their conversation was about. So I hope in season two, if we don't start there, which I yeah, I don't think we would start right there from season two, but I hope we would start where at least we get a explanation or Vanessa talks to somebody or whatever. Like we find out that what they talked about. Because I think it's important to know what she told him. For me anyway, or at least I guess maybe that's I would just like to know.
02:12:24
Speaker
as a knee deep Star Wars fan, I want to know what that conversation was. What did she say? What what was his reaction, right? And what advice did he give? Like you were talking about too, based on what he was told, what advice did he give her? And did that steer her, you know, in in season two, does that steer her, you know, what she does, her motives or like her, what what she does next season? I'd be fascinated with that.
02:12:56
Speaker
So then the very last, again, second to last he's seen is the one that I think a lot of fans are happy about for sure is Kaimir and Osha arrive back on that unknown planet where Plagueis is. They're looking out in the distance. She's holding the lightsaber. And then he kind of walks up to her and holds her hand. Okay, cool. Again, we don't... I don't hate it. like I don't hate that people are shipping them. That's fine. Yeah. It's just not my wheelhouse. Right. it's should It's just not my wheelhouse. It's not. Right. and That's where I guess I go with it. I'm cool with it. Cool. All right. Again, something we don't... Have, right. We've never seen, don't have in Star Wars is a like evil couple.
02:13:48
Speaker
or any really like you know what i'm saying like we just that's yeah we don't see it so yeah hey if this is what you know uh kylo and ray should have been i'm fine with it like i was that i was fine with kylo and ray if that's where i would have went i think you and i have discussed that like yeah cool it's just not my it's just not my cup of tea it's just not it's not how i look at Star Wars in the in those terms, like relationship stuff. I i just don't, i don't like I don't mind it, I just...
02:14:25
Speaker
I don't care. like I don't care that it is or isn't, right? Or that it confirms it or not, right? Yeah. I do like that fans get excited over it and draws new people into the fandom. The the fanfic, the artwork, all of that. All great. Yes. Some
Social Media Reactions
02:14:42
Speaker
people saying, like that was my pride and prejudice moment. It's so funny, but cool. i I'm happy for you, honestly. Right. but Just not, just not, but it think about it. People really wanted it during the sequel trilogies with Ray, the, the Ray low of it all and what we were going to get from Ben Solo and Ray.
02:15:10
Speaker
and we didn't get it flat out, like they dropped the ball on it. If you could have continued it, they probably should have. I don't know how they would have, but whatever. But this puts in the opportunity that we can see this dynamic now, and I think that's pretty cool. It's just not the focus of my my wants of this show. Right, it wasn't on my bingo card. It wasn't on my want list, like it wasn't. And again, I know a lot of people love the enemies to lovers, like that trope, right? Or that story, that like that that story. Were they truly enemies? Well, I mean, you could argue that, right? I mean, they but again, I'm happy for the people that really wanted that and got it.
02:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's huge. I mean, it is pretty big. Because again, we haven't seen this in Star Wars, the last attempt that they tried to do. You and I talked about, we've talked about that in our review. Go listen to that from like three, four years ago or however long it's been. They dropped the ball. They fumbled everything with that, 100%. So now Leslie is, giving that part of the fandom something to get excited about, which I love. Again, it's not my cup of tea. It's not why I go into Star Wars or it's not a part of Star Wars that I think about a lot, right? Like shipping characters together or whatnot. Like, hey, like, I mean, well way back when, Jackie and Osha,
02:16:56
Speaker
Cool, I dug that vibe if that was ever gonna be a thing. But it's not like it's not what I automatically always
Studio Constraints Speculation
02:17:02
Speaker
want or like something that I grasp onto within Star Wars. But I'm happy that people that loved it, loved it. I'm glad that people got it. I'm glad that it could be a thing. Now there's, I don't know how true this is. I've seen people talk about it. And I don't know if it came from a quote from Leslie, but there' but there could have been, I guess, a deleted scene of them kissing. I don't know how true that is or not. But again, if that if that was the case, cool. I'm in it. I'm fine with it. I have no issue with it. I love people that'll love it. God bless. Just not my thing, unfortunately.
02:17:49
Speaker
ah Leslie's been pretty forthcoming about saying that we all know these two aren't going to make it. The dynamic of the Sith is a power struggle. And then we also know that Plagueis no longer is has Palpatine. So she kind of like describes it as like Romeo and Juliet, where the beginning of the play you say, ah you show that they have died. And then you tell the story of how they got there. And that's kind of like the theme that she's going with with these two, which makes me want her to have a second season to be able to explore that story. I think that's great.
02:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely want to explore this more, like, okay, I'm fascinated with their dynamic now. How, I mean, if he if they are, if they do push this narrative of them maybe being a couple, how does that work? Right? Like, how how do you navigate that? Because that would would be something new in Star Wars. Again, forced, like forced couple, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, it would be an interesting, interesting story to tell for sure.
02:19:04
Speaker
I do think it escalated quickly. Right. I didn't like it with that. I don't feel like we got enough morsels
Series Strengths and Weaknesses
02:19:11
Speaker
of their developing desire for each other. Not earned enough for me to agree really, really like, like Ray and Kylo. I bought more only because again, that's three movies. Yeah and I mean but it's so funny like how people pick up like right from her her like covering or him covering Osho with a blanket. They picked it up right in the forest awakens when he bridal style picks her up like people.
02:19:42
Speaker
I don't get it right. I i love that they picked that way. It's so fascinating to to watch on social media. like i I love that they pick up on those tiny, tiny details. And then I also love that there's those details and Leslie Hedlund is like confirming them. like Yes, like he feels that way towards her. I also do think though that like all the interviews that she's done um like post interviews after each episode Is a slippery slope right because you brought up like there was a kiss scene and now everybody is like, oh my god You you took this from us, right? So I do think it's a slippery slope of giving too much detail I don't think that she spoils anything or anything. She has very smart conversations about what we've seen and
02:20:33
Speaker
If you read multiple interviews, they have different fields to them as well too. So um one sometimes talks a little bit more about like this, the ship of them. ah more Some of it talks more about like the Plagueis part. So um I do recommend like reading those interviews. I think they're excellent and something that we haven't necessarily got before from from a showrunner. Like, we didn't get that from, like, Debra Chow. We didn't get that. We don't get that from Dave Filoni. We get interviews, like, you know, that are created by Star Wars and Lucasfilm, but um the fact that she was doing, like, in the moment post ah-episode interviews and being very forthcoming about what's going on, I thought was pretty cool, but very dangerous for some fans.
02:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, no,
Final Thoughts and Enjoyment
02:21:26
Speaker
I agree. It is. I mean, you and I are both like, we love behind the scenes stuff, right? We like to know the ins and outs of choices made by, you know, directors, showrunners, whatever writers, right? I like to know that process. And I think you and I both, both like that. So it is very cool that she is doing these interviews and doing
02:21:53
Speaker
in giving these like explanations, giving these kind of behind the scenes, write details of it all, right? Cool, I like it, don't hate it. I wish we got more of it. But again, like you're saying, I wish it didn't, I wish it didn't come to, we have to read her thoughts to maybe fully understand where they were going with stuff. Right. And again, that's, that's no fault. Cause I think again, just like we were with the bigger issue, I think is not so much the writing, the directing or whatever. I think it is the studio is like, okay, we are giving you this many episodes, this many, like a louder time. You have to choose your own battles and how you want to edit it. Right. Like.
02:22:50
Speaker
I think it's more that driven.
02:22:55
Speaker
And I think that puts creatives in a box. Whereas if they had more freedom, maybe they could have told the story a little bit differently. I think she was still able to tell her story, right? But I think maybe with whatever limitations they were given by the studio, I think that maybe they had to change some stuff. Again, this is just me guessing. Yeah. Cause she never mentions that in any of the right but videos. Some things that we feel like were cut short, she feels like they were executed the best that they could, but I mean, that's the diplomacy of it as well. Like she can't be bashing the people paying her, you know, cause she is still creating something.
02:23:45
Speaker
Right. So again, I, I don't blame her. I think she told her story with what she was like in the parameters that they gave her. Yeah. Right. So again, I don't blame her for that. I do blame again. And that's a whole different conversation that I know people are having. Again, Alex and Molly, when they were talking to Ken and Joseph on their show, they talked about this, you know,
02:24:14
Speaker
the interferes of Studio and again, the streaming of it all, right? And how that maybe, again, guides a lot of this in, again, put some of these people in a box so they can't really, again, and then they are beheld by these parameters set forth by Studio, ex exact whatever, right, by whoever. So again, it's just, it's just of the time, right? This is just our time. This is just the time we live in. This is how it is with streaming. And it and it guides a lot of stuff, right? Again, people are like, well, if you look at this show and the show, they're able, okay, well that's just different. Each studio is different. Each show is different, right? Beggars can't be choosers, right? House of Dragon gets so much money per episode and they are allowed in X amount, right? It's just different.
02:25:11
Speaker
Unfortunately, this is how it is with Disney streaming. Again, that's not a knock on it. It's just, you watch any of the Marvel, Star Wars stuff, a lot i think on some critic I think criticism that I think a lot of people have is just the allotted time on some of the, right? That there are only allowed so many episodes, right? In a season. So again, you can argue there's a lot of different factors, right? That maybe pushed the story along to where some of the things that you and I felt like the quickness of some stuff wasn't able, they weren't able to execute it maybe as as well as they wanted to because of that. That's where I go with it. I think that's more of the problem than the show itself having issues.
02:26:05
Speaker
It's more of the outside factors for me. And I don't know if you agree with that or not, but what, or your take on all that, what do you think? Yeah, I agree. But that's my assumption as well too, but we just don't know. But ah if you are in and, you know, history shows you that just like you said, there are Marvel shows that are like that they're, you know, the Mandalorian became that as well too. So the Boba Fett, Book of Boba Fett, Ahsoka. So it's part of the formula and, it kind of works so for sometimes it right and a lot of instances it does right sometimes it doesn't so again that that's where I kind of end this whole thing is again I like the series overall did I have some struggles with it more than others yes but that doesn't take away from the overall
02:27:04
Speaker
Enjoyment I got a lot of again the fight choreography this the lore Building that they did in the show It's pretty impressive if you really take a step back and look at it Right blink bringing in physically play gets not just camp like not just mention right physically bringing him into it That's huge. I love the show. Honestly, I do have my gripes around the structure and some of the choices around editing. But I also do believe that it's also through studio constraints, the reason that it happens. Because we've seen scenes that can get fleshed out, look absolutely beautiful. Like you think of the night episode.
02:27:53
Speaker
like Perfect. Right. um So or even the episode before that, I mean, I really like this show. I'm not going to say it's my favorite. I'm not going to say it's the best ever. But I'm going to say I really, really, really, really liked it. It should not get the criticism that it's getting. ah It should not get the superficial official criticism that it gets from certain YouTubers and then people just take those words and repeat them. Like I can't stand that. I think the show was intelligent, beautiful, ah exciting. I loved it. I think I'm supposed to go see Twisters after that, but I think I'm going to binge it ah probably tonight. So I loved it. I miss Jackie. I miss Jackie so much. Jackie, I miss you.
02:28:53
Speaker
RIP gone too soon gone too soon. You were such promising Jedi You had mad skills I'm so sad you're gone pour out some blue milk for a real one for sure Again I yeah, I think I well said you know, I'll give you a force under well said because yeah, it's just I There's a lot of factors. I think that go into maybe some of the stuff that we struggled with, but again, it doesn't take away how much I think we enjoyed the show. Again, this is a, what was it? Like a 40 minute ish, like really from, from the beginning of the show to the end without the, you know, previously on stuffs by like 40 minutes. Yeah. And we talked two and a half hours about it. Like we talked two hours and a 30 some minute episode, like.
02:29:48
Speaker
what you said earlier about how this show really has brought in more discussion than anything. And a lot of people have said that as well, right? You see it and we're a part of that. We're a part of that bigger conversation. And it shows, it shows how well the show really sunk in with people. I want to say one more thing. here Lee Jong-J performance. Absolutely. Amazing. yeah Unfortunately, the turnout of his character I think overshadows his performance, but ah that man does not speak English.
02:30:29
Speaker
He did all of that phonetically, kind of like when K-pop artists sing a song in English. It's not that they they are knowing the words, understanding the words. They're just doing it phonetically. So and that, to me, is insane. And I think his performance is not getting talked up enough. So I just wanted to give him a shout out around that. I think a mandala is Stenberg's performance. as two characters struggling with two different things and then sometimes the same thing I thought was outstanding as well too. Jodie Turner-Smith, I think Ken Nepsak said like, you could pluck her out of that show and put her in any so Star Wars story and she fits and I agree to that. I thought she was absolutely awesome. Daphne Keen, obviously I just talked, you know, said how much I love Jackie.
02:31:27
Speaker
the the performances in this show, Carrie and Moss, my God, Trinity just, you know, coming through with just some amazing performance, Reason, ah fight Fight Choreography, Matrix, ah you know, Nostalgia, it was awesome. So everybody that was was involved in the show, just amazing work.
02:31:53
Speaker
Well said. I mean, yeah, I echo everything you said. The acting has never been, I keep saying it, has never been the issue. Oh, Manny Giussino and his his right his look in his arms and then him up being the, the, the, Camille, the difference of those performances of him and the stranger. Huge. Yeah. Again, acting has never been the issue for me at all. The acting was very, very good. And the cast. Can we talk about diversity for a second? Extremely well done overall. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I mean, just I echo everything like it's, they did so good.
02:32:36
Speaker
Everybody deserves their flowers, the ah camera guys, the production team, the costume designs, the music, all very good. Dude, costume design? Let's talk about that hood that Osha had on in this last episode. It was a work of art. Prickle. Prickle. I like the outfits. And again, this gives me excited, too, when you talk about that. like how amazing cosplay is going to be with all this new stuff. Like just how creative those people are. I can only imagine how like just amazing they're like, the outfits coming out of this are going to be really cool to see like at, you know, a celebration, right? It's going to be very, very cool. It's going to be very, very cool. And final thoughts before we wrap it up. Accolite anything else you want to bring up, my friend?
02:33:33
Speaker
I think I said it all. I just absolutely love this show.
02:33:39
Speaker
Yes. More, please. We are team. More, please. Please renew the accolade. Yeah. Hopefully they renew it. um Again, I don't. I don't see why they shouldn't, but again, that's just me. I think it's a good story. I think there's a lot to still tell with these characters. So yes, renew, renew, renew. Alright, kids, that's it. That's the show. I hope you enjoyed our breakdown of this episode of the acolyte, the finale. What'd you think? Let us know. Why not? What'd you think? Let us know. Yeah, hey.
02:34:14
Speaker
tweet us out and all the social medias for sure so if you guys like this episode and want to find more you can follow us at the galactic podcast at the galactic pod on all the social media platforms and you can follow all of our episodes on apple pod google play spotify all the major platforms we are there And then you can find, follow me, Laura Moat, Laura Knows, and all the social media platforms. You can follow me, Andrea Gutierrez, at r2d2step on Twitter, Instagram, threads. Jimin's album was released this Friday. um It is already charting all over the place. I'm so proud of my guy. He's just absolutely fantastic. So stream who ah purchased the album.
02:35:04
Speaker
God, I love Jimin And as your BT's BTS update for the week our kids does it that's a show and as always made that force be with you always always