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Episode 150- The Acolyte Recap Episode Three
117 Plays5 months ago
Welcome to The GALactic Podcast! In this episode, Andrea and Lauren chat about The Acolyte Episode Three! They are joined by special guest Ian Walter from the Back In My Day Podcast. So what happened on Brendok? More Star Wars Witches! Who's right and who's wrong? They talk these topics and much more Go listen and enjoy!
Reminder to rate and review where available! And as always, May that force be with you!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:09
Speaker
All right. Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Glide to podcast. I am Lauren Romo with me, as always, is my cousin and fellow nerd, Andrea Gutierrez. Yo, yo, yo. Right, son. What's going on, cuz? Man, I am amped. I'm fired up. We are fired up today. I was at work late. I was like sweating, you know. Now we're ready to talk Star Wars, baby. After a hard day's work. All right, so we're going to have some fun today, kids. We're just going to jump into it because we have a lot to talk about and we have a guest for the show today. We're very excited ah to have a good friend of mine.
Excitement about The Acolyte
00:00:52
Speaker
I've been on their podcast many times and we've always had a blast talking Star Wars. So let's bring in my good friend, Mr. Ian Walter from the Back in My Day podcast. Ian, what's going on? Hey, how's it going? No, it's great to be here at Galactic Podcasts. I've made it at last.
00:01:10
Speaker
like We really made it. Yeah, we finally came together, buddy. Yeah, I know. We obviously are no stranger to podcasting together, Lauren, because you've been on my podcast back in my day many times. Talking mostly Star Wars, or sometimes we veer off the path and do the Batman or something else. We did do the Batman. Star Wars seems to be our jam, the thing that we like to come together on most to talk about. So really excited to be here, especially given that latest episode of the Acolyte, episode three. Yeah.
Director and Writers Discussion
00:01:39
Speaker
Destiny. it was destiny that i
00:01:42
Speaker
um it was yeah the perfect that is overy my density oh love it. Yeah, I know, just really excited to be here. And of course, back in my day is another podcast you guys might be interested in listeners who ah we are just a bunch of crazy, not so stereotypical millennials that love talking about things from our childhood. And we like to reconnect on things that come out in the modern day that seem to also connect to the things we love from our childhood. So Yeah, just like a fun movie review, TV review podcast, sometimes some games. um And we just like to have have a blast, as you know, Lauren, already. so Yeah, no, it's a lot of fun. the The boys, Ian and David and Michael, have we have a lot of we have a blast every time I'm on there. and
00:02:30
Speaker
my Canadian brethren, our northern friends, Andrea. right Not too far, you know, from the border. Neighbors. Neighbors, yes. Our very friendly neighbors ah to to the north, I guess, if you want to call it. or Do you like hockey who are you hockey your hockey? Love hockey. I'm definitely falling into the stereotype of a Canadian that loves hockey, for sure. That's perfect. Yeah. Obviously, we're big hockey fans around here, too, for the Red Wings. so Yeah, but yes, we are here people. We are gonna talk about the Acolyte episode three named Destiny. So before we jump into all the fun conversations, if this is your first time listening
Narrative Approach and Flashbacks
00:03:07
Speaker
to us, welcome. We are a Star Wars podcast that discuss anything and everything within that galaxy far, far away. In each episode, we will dive into one or two topics and have a general discussion on them. Topics could be movies, TV series, books, comics, a specific character, you name it.
00:03:22
Speaker
And we talk about it. All right, kids, so episode three, the ah from the acolyte called Destiny. ah Right off the bat, I just want to get out the director was Koko Nada. Writers were Jasmine Flournoy and Elaine Shim. So ah Ms. Leslie Headland did not write or do well, she did have writing. I will i apologize. She had writing um credit as well. So but she did not direct this episode. This is a different director for this episode. And oh, my, this was good and spicy in a lot of Star Wars goodness to talk about in this one. So let's go over all thoughts, as we always do around here in our guest. I will start with you, my friend.
00:04:13
Speaker
Overall thoughts, your likes, maybe struggles with this episode, highs, lows for you. So let's talk about it. How'd you feel about the overall story and what we got from this episode? Sure, I love this episode. There weren't too many struggles so far. As you know, we just spoke about the premiere of the Accolade Lauren. And when we did, I'll just bring that up because a big point of contention was we wanted to see what happened on Brandoxx 16 years ago. And that's exactly what we got with episode three with Destiny. So diving into that and loving the fact that it was a flashback for the whole duration of
New Force User Sect
00:04:50
Speaker
the episode. It was from start to finish. It was kind of a departure from the format we were used to from the first two episodes. And now we got a.
00:04:56
Speaker
you know at least one perspective, a whole ah whole look at what happened, the inciting incident that started this whole mystery. So it was great to dive in and especially, I know we're going to get into the details that we're going to talk about, but like a new sect of force users and just something that's a little adverse or adjacent to the Jedi, a little you know juxtaposition there, if you will. There's some similarities, some differences, so it'll be great to explore ah what's going on there. and just you know it It really did feel, especially because it's 16 years before even the present day of this story, it did feel like we were in the past in Star Wars. so like A lot of stuff even coming before the prequel trilogy, like it just it finally felt like we were actually
00:05:45
Speaker
There was some some data, some age to the setting of of Brenda Oxo's. It was cool to see this village of witches and how they operate and in secrecy, it seems. And I'm really excited now to see are we going to get more to this mystery?
Andrea's Reactions
00:06:02
Speaker
Are we going to see another angle of this story? um So going forward, I'll be excited to see if they call back to this, but it was nice to get that snapshot and get and get a new understanding of what we're faced within the present with Osha and May and their ah you know the the battle that seems that seems to be having between these two sisters.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the most interesting for me and I'm glad you brought it up is I was honestly not expecting to go back this early like we're in episode three and we're already going to that moment that like the first two episodes have really kind of Accumulated and kind of like have been hinting at and we see it and like you said II and I'm glad you like pointed out It's one point of view, right? This is the only point of view that we have gotten and it's mostly I would say OSHA's I mean Coven Jedi, but I feel it the more point of view that we were getting especially towards the end Was obviously OSHA and a little bit of may that seems accurate. Yeah, you know, so
00:07:10
Speaker
it i Yeah, this episode was fantastic for me. And i'll i'll I'll give my thoughts in a minute, but Andrea, I want to throw it to you because thoughts, feelings, you know how we do around here, what you got? stop Well, I was in the same boat as you guys where I'm laying on the, I don't know if you were laying on the couch, but I was laying on the couch and it said, Brenda 16 years earlier. And I said, Oh, I better sit up a little bit. We're getting serious. So, um, that's how that started. Um, I remember leaving this episode.
00:07:44
Speaker
feeling like, I don't know, like sad or solemn. and And I feel like at first I was like, that's the story. Like it's that simple. Like they found them, they tested them, they died. They now have her. I'm like, that doesn't seem right. Right, so like surface level I was really kind of disappointed in the episode to to be honest. um It was one of those where it kind of just sat in your brain for the next 24 hours and you just kept rethinking of like different points and different words that were said and um how uncomfortable I felt by the Jedi as well
Themes of Power and Control
00:08:25
Speaker
too. I think that was the other thing that gave me like this this bad rub about the episode was that the Jedi seemed like
00:08:33
Speaker
like slimy and sus. And I was like- Not my Jedi. i Exactly. And I was like, not my Jedi. Don't make me go through those feelings again. I thought we were in the good times. So so I was like, oh man, what the? But, um you know, thank God for social media and and people that love this franchise and and like to point out little things and get your brain going and all that kind of stuff. Um, but overall, absolutely love that there's a ah new way to the force, a new use of the force, um, and being known as the thread as, um, some things in other cultures can be known as well. So that was just like really awesome. Um, and there were lesbians, you know, they don't, they don't need men.
00:09:25
Speaker
they ah They don't need men. they don't need that They didn't need them. They didn't need them to make two little babies. they That is so interesting, isn't it? We're going to talk about that. we we We didn't need men to make Anakin either. I know. I know. Everybody, oh, man, this is getting heavy, isn't it? So um that was really awesome as well, too, because, you know, Who doesn't? end then And like a zabrak? Like, it does just so much goodness, honestly. um So yeah initially I came out of that episode a little a little just uncomfortable, but now looking into it and hoping that we are going to get the other points of view from either Indara or Sol or even um Mother Anasaya and Jodie Turner
00:10:20
Speaker
Johnson man Smith Smith Smith lights out just like what a great performance. Um, just so powerful when she, you know, had that that conversation with OSHA and, um, just that, that pull away in the wipe of the tear was just very powerful. It was just absolutely flawlessly performed. So she's the mother. She is the mother. I will, I am down giving her that title. So. A lot to look forward to honestly Yeah, no, I I agree with everything you guys are saying I Watching this and I think that Andrew like you pointed out I think the I think that was kind of maybe the point of What maybe Leslie and like her writing team wanted us to feel and this episode is uncomfortable because there were moments like you're saying like I
00:11:18
Speaker
Like the Jedi really kind of just show up that way. And bro, Jedi lying. yeah right That took me out. Right.
00:11:31
Speaker
So it was interesting. i And again, I i understand where you're like what you you were feeling after that, like after you kind of initially watched it, because I was kind of the same way, but I think I was way more intrigued and like, okay,
Speculation on Jedi Intentions
00:11:47
Speaker
so where are we going with this? Because now we have a a base of what we think we know, right? But again, I think the point, is to, again, continue this mystery, right? So what's true, what's not, what is, you know, in who are we seeing this?
00:12:08
Speaker
this point of view from, right? Because ah I think clearly we will be getting, and I agree with you, Ang, we'll be getting more of the story. and And Ian, I think you said that too, like, this is not, I don't think this is going to be the only time we go back there. I think we're going to revisit it maybe one or two more times. Because I feel like we have to see, I think we have to see May's point of view. right and i think we have to maybe see the jedi's point of view because we really got the coven the witches slash osha mainly right i would like to see may's point of view just to see what like
00:12:47
Speaker
What happened and again we're gonna dive into it, but what happened after she started that fire because that's sus It kind of also seemed like it was like the Jedi reporting back to the Jedi temple and this is what happened Yeah, you know like in we got there there were kids we tested them a Fire broke out everyone died, but we got the one we want we're good. Yeah, I And certainly soul like the way he recounts it even to OSHA at the end of the episode. That's where I think it leaves you feeling a little uncomfortable because you know, there's more to it and we haven't even seen it. So it's like I think I agree with both of you in the sense that if this is all we got, I'm coming away a little disappointed. But I'm i'm just holding on to this idea that like this is an unraveling mystery. They've already mentioned these events and now we've gone in yeah like
00:13:40
Speaker
deep dive into these events to see what happened but I think like if we were to revisit this from another perspective that would really hammer home okay this was intentional and you know there was some some messaging here that was important to the story and if we don't get to revisit it and it is face value then yeah it would come off feeling a little bland maybe you're generic. Yeah, and i feel again, I feel like that's and like that's intentional why they did this episode the way they did, right? um But again, yeah, to before we dive into really the big stuff, I loved, again, the environment, the the vibes of everything, the coven, like where like their their home is made out of this, like
00:14:21
Speaker
Mountain, right? It was very cool. Lauren, you predicted that they would be witches. You're like, listen, mothers, witches, coven, I'm feeling coven. So you're getting inside information again. I am not getting inside information. She just has a high Star Wars IQ, I think. I was like, no, not witches, lesbians, come on. We're both right. We're both right. We're both right. Witchy lesbians, and it's the most beautiful thing we've ever seen. It was glorious. So again, I like the whole, that whole aesthetic too of like, how they, they're, it's all purple, right? And that's, that's on purpose because I, I don't know if you guys noticed this too, when they were doing that ceremony and mother Anastasia did it on May and she got that mark, like there was a little bit of like purple that like was coming out where she was like, like doing whatever she was doing. And that reminded me of,
00:15:25
Speaker
Again, with like the Dathomirian, the Nightsisters, it's green to them. And to this coven, it's purple. So again, it's
Parallels with Star Wars Lore
00:15:33
Speaker
little things, but that's very cool that they're kind of distinguishing, but still letting you know that these are witches. And obviously they say they're witches too, so witches. Which is great. And again, I'm all for Star Wars, you know, getting weird and getting into this like arena. And we talked about that on on the ah Back in My Day podcast too, with our speculation that, you know. Our wild speculation. Our wild speculation. bring get Go weird. Like I like when Star Wars gets weird. And I and i will say this too.
00:16:05
Speaker
This is such a George Lucas like thing too in my opinion. He would have Loved and he probably did love this episode The guy is you know coming from the guy that created minichlorians. Come on guys Like this is totally up his alley so you know for all the people that were like, oh this isn't this or that, or you know this isn't what George would have wanted yet. Yeah, guys, he's weird. wow And like we already know that Filoni is hard to run in the show right now. And I think this has this seal of approval. It's not like they're getting one under on Filoni, right? So there's there's got to be some overall agreement on the direction of story that is happening inside of Star Wars. It's not just like, I don't think they're doing the whole, like you just do what you want to do thing anymore. like ah It seems like they're all on the same page, right? so
00:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, I like what you mentioned about color, though, because, you know, big picture Star Wars or at least classic Star Wars, it's always been Jedi versus Sith and it's always been the blue lightsaber versus the red lightsaber. So having a color like purple is definitely more of a it's not definitive. It's not like this is for sure. Darkside or this is for sure. Lightside. It's just like another interpretation of the force. So it's something we can explore together and not necessarily jump to conclusions. Right. So. Right. Right. Right. And again, that's what I think this episode does a really good job of. And again, we'll, we'll, we'll get to the meat and the potatoes for sure. But yeah, again, overall loved it. I loved the music. The music was great. I loved the, again, the, the witch ceremony, the chanting and all that singing. Like that was really, really good. And again, I think this is supposed to make us think of, okay, who is really right and who is really wrong? Like, I think that's one of the main
00:17:56
Speaker
Takeaways or themes if you want to call it that I think what this show is doing and I think especially with this story and again like you guys have said Giving us a different kind of Look at the Jedi even more deeper like we knew we know as fans you know, they they took these younglings right and took them to the Academy and everything and But we can't, but we never really, I mean, to my knowledge, we haven't really seen that. We just hear about it, right? I mean, we've maybe seen like flashbacks, right? In Clone Wars of like Ahsoka or Ventress, right? We've seen a little flashbacks.
00:18:37
Speaker
well a lot of like When you read about it in books and some of the Jedi reflect about like leaving their families, most of them say they don't remember their families. right I don't even remember my brother. Obi-Wan used to say that. I know I had a brother, um but I don't remember him. so ah this i mean This has huge implications right to maybe in the future of why they're so like He's too old, right? Of why Anakin is too old. Let's give us another example of why Jedi cannot be recruited at a specific age and it needs to be at a young age. Um, maybe that wasn't a rule yet. So, cause it didn't seem like it was, it seems like they were just like, Hey, we'll test you and you can come with us.
00:19:23
Speaker
that's I don't know. Is it? I don't think they really talk about that in the books or comics or anything like age wise or anything. They don't really mention it. The only time they really mentioned age is when like in the beginning they talk about Vanessa being 14 when she was made a Jedi Knight and that she was one of the youngest Jedi Knights ever to be named. Um,
00:19:58
Speaker
That's, that's the really only thing. And then, you know, everyone else has padawans that are an appropriate age and all of that. So you don't really hear, um, there's a couple of stuff with younglings, but they all just seem like with their following the story that we've always known, they get them at a young age. Um, they start to train them and they get little tiny baby lightsabers and it's cute, you know? Right. But then it turns into very bad things. I like Anakin
Philosophical Questions on Power
00:20:31
Speaker
Skywalker. Skywalker things. But there are a lot of like really big words here, right? Like so exile. They were told to leave by someone. ah Creation. I ah created them. um Like you brought it up earlier, Lauren, the good and the bad, like
00:20:49
Speaker
um Mother Anasaya says that line perfectly, like this isn't about being good or or bad, it's ah it's about power and who gets to control it. So there's just like these huge thought provoking themes um that can be drawn to so many different stories that we already know about right now. And the the exile part really just has me, my mind, churning. like I want to know like who told them they had to go, who said that their power was dark, um all of that. like are And are we going to even get that information in this and the season?
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, I want to stick a pin in that, because i wanted to I want to talk about that even deeper. ah Before we maybe jump into the deeper stuff, Ian, anything else kind of overall that caught your eye? Anything else you want to bring up ah for the just the overall conversation? ah Well, yeah, we definitely want to talk about like you were saying who's right and who's wrong and all this because I think like what we're going to look at is I don't think anyone's saying like the Jedi are definitively evil. Like, you know, Anakin and revenge the said in my opinion, the Jedi are evil. No, like that's not like there is a macro picture here. And there's also like all these little microtransactions that happen along the way. Right. There's a big difference between
00:22:04
Speaker
like let's say the Jedi Order or the Jedi Council as an institution and the actual um you know you know the ah thought or the philosophy behind being a Jedi. It's like there's a big difference between wanting to live the way, you know the the values and the virtues of being a Jedi and actually like carrying that out. When you have tens of thousands of Jedi, there's going to be some that will falter and some that will you know fall into temptation and slip into the dark side. So it's not a question of like overall because of this story that we're, I would engage with the story we're being told and that ah that it's being
00:22:43
Speaker
told from a certain point of view, like we said. And you know there's going to be situations and nuance there that we can get into. But I don't think anyone's going to sit back. and And that's the other thing. We're not done. We're three episodes in. So we don't know. We won't see the big picture until after the series is done. But like no one's sitting back and going, OK, well, now the Jedi, all of a sudden, all of them suck. All of a sudden, Luke Skywalker sucks? No. It's just the fact that we're questioning some of these Jedi along the way. and why they did what they did or why they thought the way they thought. And I think we already touched on when we're talking about this is the end of the High Republic. This is like we're moving towards the prequel trilogy. We're moving towards the Jedi that were already deeply flawed and you know falling into being generals of the Clone Wars and this and that. so
00:23:28
Speaker
It's not peak era High Republic when maybe the Jedi were a more idealized version of themselves. This is like, we're going to look at maybe some of the Jedi falling into some fearful traps here and there. And and maybe they had more justified reasons, because like we said, maybe there's more to the story. Maybe they have more justification as to why they did what they did. Yeah, I know. I 100% agree. There is just another side of the story that we're not getting. And I get why people might again, after this episode, feel that, you know, feel a certain way for sure. Right. About the Jedi now and kind of maybe questioning.
00:24:03
Speaker
you know, previous stuff that we have known or we just assume that we knew about the Jedi and the Order itself.
Coven and Force Relationship
00:24:11
Speaker
ah So yeah, just, there's just a ton of questions that, you know, we can, you know, let's dive into a little bit further. Andrea, before we do that, though, anything else you want to bring up before overall, overall thoughts, feelings, overall, anything that stuck out to you in the episode? Just kind of, again, general um surface lover stuff.
00:24:33
Speaker
No. Fair enough. So let's, I want to keep, so let's keep, I want to stick on this. Who's right, who's wrong? Because I think it's a fascinating, again, i I feel like it's on purpose and it's a fascinating kind of question I think they, that I think they bring to the forefront now, right? Is, are the Jedi what they have, what they have been doing all this time? were they right in doing it, right? Were they right in taking these younger padawans or these force users, right? And taking them from their families and putting them into the Jedi Academy and, you know, doing all this stuff. Up until now, I think we everybody just assumed it like, as a whole, like on a galaxy level, everybody was like, well, yeah, this is how it's supposed to go, right? Like,
00:25:26
Speaker
who wouldn't want to be a Jedi. Who wouldn't want their kid to be a Jedi. And I love that OSHA is like showing that side of it, right? I love that. Yeah. Like taking the initiative like I want to be a Jedi, that kind of thing. Right. Right. Making a choice. Right. She's the one. And to show the opposite end of it as well too. It may. Yeah. Yeah. So again, to get those two perspectives and then again, to question the methods Of the jedi and how they again I think we but I think we all can agree. I I we don't know the full story yet obviously but I just How I read this too, especially in the beginning of the of the episode when the when the girls were like outside of the of the fortress or their their village right and mother uh Is a krill?
00:26:19
Speaker
Coral coral mother coral, but you know ushers them back in and you see soul kind of like lurking in the background, right? That seemed very sus Right. I mean because it just seems very like Why are you kind of hiding like I? Here's my here's where I go with this and again, this is I want to get your guys's thoughts, too I feel like they were, and Andrea, I think you might've mentioned it a little bit, just a little bit ago. I feel like they were sent there purposefully because of them either hearing about somebody seeing these children, right? Doing like forced stuff. Or, and I, when you talk about the whole exile thing of the coven, I think they were running and being exiled by the Jedi.
00:27:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's a distinct possibility. That's my that's my guess. My guess is that they were running or they had to start brand new because the Jedi previously were at like were after them. That's my again, that's where I that's where I go with it, because and the reason I say that is because they were mother and Isaiah is very familiar with the Jedi. Right? And then the girls, even Osha, they're very familiar of who the Jedi are. They knew that they had their lights, like they knew what a lightsaber was. So Osha was sketching the symbol already. so Exactly. So it's like they have encountered them before. That's the vibe I get.
00:27:57
Speaker
So, and again, who's right, who's wrong is, you know, I think how this episode was presented to us, you really don't know. i I mean, you could argue that the coven is right because again, as we know, were they hurting anybody or anything? As far as we know, no, this is all like in-house, it was in their own coven. So for the Jedi to just show up, And not even like knock on the door, apparently just kind of come in right unlike uninvited. Seems very suspect, right? Yeah. so Yeah, when they're in the process of doing the when they're in the process of doing the ascension, that's when they show up. Almost like they had information prior to that that that was something that they were about to do with these two twins. It's all weird. you know
00:28:55
Speaker
and then could Could those seeds be planted by another force or another? yeah could Could there be some other you know play going on from the dark side? Yeah, I mean, we don't know, right? that's It could be. I mean, Ang, what do you think about this, Ang? that moment where it was again, like early in the episode and they were talking with the girls and then ah mother coral heard something and then they they told the kids to go back to the room. And then she kind of went to that area and you didn't like see anything. Do you think that was maybe soul or some Jedi like spying?
00:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, i I do. I feel like
Osha and May's Dynamic
00:29:40
Speaker
they were there's a disturbance in the force, right? Honestly, there's a disturbance in the force and they needed to go investigate. I don't think that they were like stationed on Brendoc. it as like some outpost like that you read in the high republic where Certain Jedi are stationed on certain planets to to be of assistance it seems like they were sent there to spy and to find out if this um other use of the force is is about to happen and What I find interesting I think I'm going off-subject
00:30:17
Speaker
Keep going, we'll go. Stay on target. Stay on target. Okay, so when Mother Anastasia is talking to the girls about um the thread and they um that others claim to use it, right? And it's not a power that you wield. To me, it's on a very path of the open hand from the High Republic, honestly, who were so opposed to the the Jedi because they used the force. And if you did, that pulled the force from another another place and and could cause on like a negative effect. right So that's what the path of the open hand in the High Republic was about. You didn't want to use the force at all. You didn't want to disrupt it because of balance. If you used it, you're taking it away from somewhere else.
00:31:05
Speaker
So when I heard Mother Anasaius say, um like, it's not a power that you wield, like she has respect for it, um and they they bring up balance a lot as well, too. It makes me think like, where who where did these, where did they come from, right? Because their thought process around the Force sounds a little bit more appropriate than the Jedi's thought process around the Force when we see down the line, right? When they start to use it as as weapons and ah means of war, So, right now, if I have a um ah team that I'm on, right, I would be Team Coven, Team Mother Anasaya, right, and not Team Jedi. Because I see lurking Jedi, I see Jedi that show up and say that they just showed up and didn't even know anybody was here. You know, so who's good and who's bad? Right now, my good is on the witches and my bad is on the Jedi.
00:32:03
Speaker
And I think, again, you could argue, though, too, that the coven could be in the wrong, right? I mean, clearly, well, clearly they were exiled and, you know, whatever for a reason. They're saying because people think what they're doing is unnatural. Well, is it? We don't know. I love that word. the and The unnatural. Yeah, I love that, too, which I i that I want to stick a bit in that because I I think that's a very fun callback to Revenge of the Sith. But Uh, Ian, though, I want to get kind of your take too, buddy. Good, good, bad. Where do you stand? Do you think it's a, do you think it's just a clear? Obviously it's not a clear cut case, but where do you go with right, wrong here?
Future Story Developments
00:32:50
Speaker
It's an interesting question. I mean, I think like based on the story we were told, there's one perspective, but then I think we're going to get multiple angles of this thing so we can really look at it and and say, well, there's probably right and wrong on both sides like the whole way through, right? So depending on how you look at it. but ah It makes sense what you're both saying, especially because the Jedi are in power, so it makes sense that the exile might have something to do with the Jedi kind of pushing this coven out. I think the reason why the Jedi are in power is because ultimately they triumph over the the Sith, and therefore it's like the Sith are deemed bad, the Jedi are deemed good, so anybody else using the Force
00:33:30
Speaker
is a liability. So it makes sense why they want to train younglings at a young age so that if you just let someone figure out the forces on their own, they could become a danger to themselves and others because they don't know how to wield it. Jedi are very seasoned at doing so. So they have their own dogmatic view of how to use the force and wield it, like you said, Andrea. But, um you know, obviously, it's not to say that and I actually love the fact that in this episode we get an entirely new angle of how to approach the force. They call it the thread. ah They don't look at it at the same. They don't have the same practice. It's like there's a lot of similarities in the respect for the force, but ah very different applications. And and like clearly, the way that she phrased it could be considered a slight at how the Jedi are using it, right? It's like we the way that we engage with the thread is much more
00:34:22
Speaker
Natural or I know where to use the word unnatural, but maybe like it feels natural to them versus what the Jedi are doing so there's definitely a juxtaposition there, but also I don't know it's like This whole idea of like okay We're using the force to create and are we doing are we doing this? Is that not a form of hypocrisy? Like are we engaging with the force in our own way and thinking that the way the Jedi are doing it is unnatural like is that a Are there, you know are there like i like I said, right and wrongs on both sides?
Creating Life in Star Wars
00:34:55
Speaker
So I think like there's a little bit more to it, but i I do ultimately think that from this angle, from OSHA's perspective, when I go back and watch this episode and I'm thinking about May, let's say right up to the point of the fire, because I think that's a whole other thing we'll get into probably, but like before May does anything with the fire,
00:35:14
Speaker
She has a very good, I think like a sensible, at least like a sensible approach to what's going on. She sees her sister getting wrapped up in this fantasy idea of like joining these weirdo monks and leaving her family for good. um She sees her coven as a home and wants to protect that home and she's falling in line with what her mother has taught her. So from a family's perspective, Mei is doing all the right things and it's Osha who seems to be acting irrationally. But I think again, like when you peel back the layers, like I i like the angle of of Osha kind of knowing that she's meant for something else and that the Jedi are this great symbol of hope ultimately. So like we'll see where that goes if that was the right move. But
00:36:03
Speaker
Again, I think there's some more details here we'll get into as as the series goes on. But for now, I definitely see the positives of the Coven wanting to stay secret and wanting to do their own thing and like saying, we're not part of the Republic. like You don't need to come in here and tell us what to do. I understand what the Jedi are doing, but they do seem like the aggressors in this environment, at least from episode three. Yeah, they definitely leaning towards the Jedi right now on on these four and their mission to go in. Like you said, I think that was a good point you made, Andrea, about the disturbance of the force. They might just be like really wary about the force being used without their knowledge. And ah the council is sort of deemed it necessary to go in and intervene. And honestly, i in like you both are talking about, it could like you're saying, the Jedi might be responding to a disturbance and they could be
00:36:59
Speaker
They could be doing this because of past events, right? Because of Markian, right? Because of that whole like situation, maybe this made them more like hyper aware of certain things. So then maybe that's why the council, as we see it, you know, changes right over time. and this is maybe that because of those events started that change, right? Because of the fall of the Starlight Beacon and probably other things, but maybe that major event could have really springboarded this whole bigger change in the order, right?
00:37:41
Speaker
And that maybe that again, that's why you're like you guys are saying maybe they're checking this disturbance. Maybe they if they could have maybe. And Andrew, I think you alluded to it earlier, they could have like reach out to the council, say, hey, this is what we're seeing. What do you want us to do? Right, because it kind of made it clear in the first couple of episodes that. They follow certain right, they follow what the council says, they have to get kind of like permission from them in a way, right, like They follow the book. We have an unauthorized force user. Right. Exactly. So there's clearly more like there's clearly a reason why they are there more than just maybe OSHA and May. Maybe OSHA may are just a byproduct of what they find. I honestly think maybe the twins were a discovery in that moment by Saul because they were well protected. So they probably knew that there was something going on with the force or maybe
00:38:38
Speaker
this coven of force users, but they maybe didn't know about the twins right away. Yeah. No, I agree with you on that one. Yeah. What do you got in? Yeah. And then later in the episode, there's also these moments where you, and then you kind of rethink your choice on like who was good or bad, because you see my mother Anna say attack Torbin and, and her even say like, um, I don't know. I wish I would have wrote it down on like your Padawan might not even leave or whatever she says to Indara. Um, and in, even in the beginning, you get a really good example of that OSHA is the good one. She's using the force playing with an insect or that butterfly type thing. May comes into the picture. She starts to handle it. Um, she's hurting it.
00:39:28
Speaker
things like that so you're already giving the perspective of which one is the light side and which one is is the dark side or who is bad and who is good so um it's just like Ian says like it's always gonna be a sprinkle of of all of it right like everything is just a big huge beige right like ah there's a little good and a little bad of in everything and and usually it comes down to like someone's point of view or um Some sort of terrible disaster like I think we're about to encounter to um bring out the truth of what's really happening Yeah, no, I understand agree.
Connection to Star Wars Themes
00:40:05
Speaker
There's
00:40:07
Speaker
The events leading up to this are crazy. Yeah, go ahead. you mean I like what you said about that first scene because I think we might even see that scene again. I would love to see it from May's perspective because what I think is happening here is like this is her sister that's like she's kind of the outsider, like she wants to do things on her own. and she wants to bring her sister in and be part of the family. And I think like, yeah, we see the aggressive tendencies from Mei, maybe out of frustration. But I did think there was a little nuance with that back and forth, because we see like, Osha's off by herself, and she's testing her abilities. But the second Mei wants to come in and test her abilities, it's Osha that's making the call. Like, yeah, it's it's done from an angle of like, okay, she seems to be going a little bit harder on it. And
00:40:55
Speaker
maybe causing a pain so that's why OSHA wants her to stop but it's also just OSHA making that call like no you can't do this like I you know where she was just doing it herself there's a little bit of instant hypocrisy in that as well like not not like taking her sister aside and saying no like try like this or whatever just like instantly shutting her down and what's that gonna do it's good it's gonna breed more and more frustration and anger right so it's just gonna make it worse ah So there's definitely some like inner familial dynamics going on between them that You know, it's it's like it's like they want you to think okay light side dark side But maybe there's gonna be a bit of a flip happening
00:41:34
Speaker
Oh boy, you just got my brain going. ah Dang it. Oh, Andrea's rethinking her entire. No. But I'm glad you guys brought up this, the OSHA and May of it all too, because it's right. Like you were just saying, Ian, it's, they are again showing that May is the quote unquote darker side of this tandem right but is that right is that the truth because again we are seeing this mostly from OSHA's point of view right so but clearly
00:42:18
Speaker
I mean, for for OSHA to like tell her to stop and everything for me, it clicked that like for me, I see that as to as her always seen her do this. Right. This isn't like the first time. Clearly, this is how she acts. And clearly OSHA does not like that. Right. She does not like how her sister is. And clearly, she's not like what the covens all about. She might not like in general how they use the force. Right. So it's just like, you know, And again, I go back to the Last Jedi, powerful light, powerful dark, right? Darkness rises, light to meet it. Like it's a very yin and yang thing with these two. And don't know if that was,
00:42:59
Speaker
what Mother Anaseya really wanted to create, but I think she created it that way for sure. But also on that note of Last Jedi, just think about what we're dealing with with Rey and Ben Solo, right? Ben Solo was born to be the Jedi. Rey was born to be the
Sith Involvement Speculation
00:43:19
Speaker
Sith. And there's a flip there too. So you never know what's gonna happen. so That's a really good point. That's a really good point. So yeah, I think it's just, it's all just very interesting of, again, the who's right, who's wrong. And especially even with the dealings of letting, like, I mean, his mother, Anna Saya, was she but she's too hard on Osha? Because and until the very, you know, until the that very last conversation, like, Osha was obviously very verbal, like verbal in her, like, I don't wanna do this.
00:43:55
Speaker
I don't want to do this. I don't want to be a witch. I don't want to, like, I don't want to be here. And i that, and that one conversation she has with her and in mother and saying, I was like, you know, it's like the seasons it's going to change. And, you know, in the winter we hunt this way. And in the spring we hunt this way, but I love Osha's responses like, yeah, but we still hunt. The bottom line is that I still don't want to be a witch. I still don't want to go down this path. So, but I, I'm glad that in the end mother and say, I did let her kind of make that decision. Right. Cause I, that would have i changed things for me, but I'm glad that they did that and not like had mother and I say, I like force her to continue down that path.
00:44:44
Speaker
It's way more interesting to see her as a good mother. like it's you know She might be doing these things on for the group. like Her application of the force, we've seen her. There's certainly some dark energy involved. But when it comes to her daughters, she's like on the right path, it would seem. right So it's like it's like there's there's layers to this. right It's not just, which is bad. jedi good right right no it's very layered and what about this idea of. How the coven because i want to dive into the the covens view of the force we've we've been kind of talking about it but.
00:45:23
Speaker
that to me was one of the most fascinating parts of this episode, right? it's It's very, again, it's all, it's, and I think, Ian, you might've brought it up earlier, it's similar to the Jedi, but then it's different than I think how the Jedi view the Force and how they kind of even view this idea of the thread overall, right? And I think it's interesting that they call it the thread Because and people have brought this brought this up as well that obviously in El Soka Those mothers talked about the threat of destiny. So again, you can see where these good call these different cultures even though are Are you know two very different ways of thinking about it? It's all it's similar though in many ways So and just what what do you think about this the viewpoints of the coven and how they use the force and how they view it?
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, it's excellent to give it this, this visual that we've never really seen before. And, um, but to also go back, uh, saying that like, it's a, it's, it's binds us together. Like, and we've heard Yoda say that in the empire strikes back. Right. So, um, they're, they're similar in now you're speaking my language. Yeah. Right. So, so.
00:46:47
Speaker
And you think of a thread, right? You think of a, you know, like, ah like just exactly what they're doing, like a push and a pull and ah and a manipulate. um It's not something that you're able to I don't even know how to like describe it, but it's weird. Do you know when I want to describe it? You ever seen Donnie Darko before? Anybody? Yeah. So you know like when the thing is like coming through their chest and he's walking through the party and everybody has that that thing going through them and it connects them all. Like that's immediately what I think of when I think of the thread.
00:47:22
Speaker
that every single person is attached to the to the next and it it has like this place in in the center of you and it allows you to to walk away but like to come back and your actions affect the other person you know that you've been connected to or have somehow you know brought your yourself to. so I can't wait. I hope we get a little bit more, uh, description and, uh, like thought process around like Leslie Headland's reasoning for using the thread and where she pulled that from and, and all of that, because it, you know, you think of like the, the thread of fate as well too. And, um, all of that, the red string. So the web of destiny.
00:48:10
Speaker
the web of destiny. So it's just you know another, the it's a great visual, honestly, that we just haven't really got before in Star Wars. So I i just, I love it. Yeah, it's fascinating, right? Like it's very, again, I might've said it earlier, it's it's such a George thing. Right, like this is such a George would totally be 100% behind this, right? Like this is again, the guy created the midichlorians and now we're seeing it in a like, we're expanding on that, right? We're expanding on this idea of how are people connected to this?
00:48:58
Speaker
Right? The Jedi, they feel like, again, very similar to, I think, what the coffin feels. Everything is is together, like you're saying, Andrea, like that thread. Everybody's connected to it. But just because you're connected to it, I don't like i feel like how they see it is that it doesn't mean that you own it. Right. It's just that you can feel it and you can use it as well. But it's not someone to just completely like take over and have power over. During during the ascension ceremony, they so they flat out say what the threat is tied together, no one can separate. Right. So there's this connection, this bond that um you are set to be in. ah This is this is somewhat of your your fate.
00:49:48
Speaker
Which I live. Yeah, I love. So Ian, yeah, go ahead. What do you think about this whole different view now? Like um but from a witch, like from a coven, we get another witchy coven view of this. So what's your, yeah, what's your thoughts on it? I like all these high concepts. I think it's like, you know, it's displaying how, you know, you might have all these different religions, but ultimately like there's a through line as to what everyone's aspiring to, uh, get a grasp of right and it's basically this idea of fate is a great one because one of my favorite movies T2 judgment day I would say that there's no fate but what we make for ourselves right so it's like I think the destiny is there I think it's all like you know Anakin's destiny was laid out before him ah Yoda says this great thing that the future always in motion the future is which is
00:50:37
Speaker
It's a he definitely has something there, but I think that where this council was at at the time, they were very fearful of as if it was already preordained that this was going to happen. Whereas I think the the approach that the covenant is taking here is like there is a thread and you can pull it, but you have to make that choice. And I think like Anakin made his choice. Right. So it's like it's it's like. You know, that the destiny can be there, but you still need to make the choice to to so pull that thread and go down that path. And then and therefore, that's it's more of like a potential within you and you're tapping into it. And if the force is flowing flowing through all of us, I think they both the Jedi and these witches seem to have a great grasp of the force in in depth like knowledge of what the force is capable of it's just again and how are you going to use it are you going to wield it like a power or are you going to sort of ah let it flow through you and and follow its guidance or whatever right so it's it's it's just very different philosophies but they all kind of come together and
00:51:43
Speaker
I think if they could see past their differences, that there's a lot they could share between these two ideologies. right So it's it's interesting. I definitely like seeing more angles of how people view the force. like there's ah There's other groups than just the Jedi and Sith, and I like that. so Yeah, I and I love that we are getting this point of view right because like you're saying it's Just because the Jedi or the Sith use it this way doesn't mean everybody Views that that way and then obviously we had the night sisters and now we have a totally different type of witch coven That sees it in a very different way. Well, that's a grip. That's a great point though Ian that like if they could just get past maybe some of the
00:52:28
Speaker
differences and maybe how it should be used and how people should be able to access it or however you want to call it they see it or and they i think they they understand it in very similar ways right the binding together and destiny and all that stuff like it's all very it's all it's all similar like poetry rhymes as the great George Lucas. Again, this is why George Lucas would love this shit because it's right up his alley. You brought up Ahsoka and I love that you did because I think about Ahsoka a lot, especially when we're raising the question, like are the Jedi right or wrong? and I think like it's already in the cards that the Jedi ultimately as a council or as an institution
00:53:16
Speaker
are making some poor choices, especially the closer we get to the Phantom Menace, right? But then the whole thing about Ahsoka is they still refer to Ahsoka, whether it's in canon or outside of it, they refer to her as a Jedi. And because she is the ultimate Jedi, like she, especially what we see with the series, like she completes her training, She goes on, she's she's doing more of, I think we even touched this on something back in my day with ah Michael R. Power, but he was saying like the ideal version of a Jedi, what I think a Jedi should be, go off into the galaxy, do good, spread love, spread good, ah you know, as opposed to being reporting to a council and getting through all this bureaucratic red tape and all this stuff. It's like Ahsoka's kind of on that path, even if it's not the quote unquote Jedi order or, you know what I mean, what we know to be the Jedi. like she's
00:54:08
Speaker
the ultimate Jedi. So I think that that's an important piece to this. It's like when we're looking at whether the Jedi are right or wrong, it's not that all Jedi are right or wrong. Like there's some really great Jedi out there. There's just that along the way, you know, from the High Republic till the Phantom Menace, they've been making these missteps and, you know, starting to snowball. Yeah, definitely snowball 100%, right? like ah And I think, again, I think he like events that the order goes through, obviously, controls, I think, how they go about things,
Unnatural Creation Implications
00:54:40
Speaker
right? like Again, what the Nye Hill are doing in the High Republic, definitely, I think, you know however that gets fixed or confronted, that will shape the order from that point on, right? And then, again,
00:54:56
Speaker
from what happens with Palpatine, how that is shaped, right? Maybe in Ray's movie, we will see how that shapes what this new order will look like. So yeah, it's... It's good, like, again, I love seeing the force in this different way, but like you like like we're all saying, like it's all connected, right? They all think of it in the same same terms and the same same like way of it binding everything, but how they use it is the is where they get, I think, the separation. So I do want to bring up... um
00:55:35
Speaker
when they talk about the creation of life, because here's here's here's what I think. Let's hear it. A, does not ruin Anakin's story at all. Let's just throw that out there. Did people say that? Yes. Listen, if people can, I think there's a lot of reactionary things that go happen online. that The second an episode drops and it's like, we're not even done the series, but I think if people would reflect on it and everything, it might even enhance Anakin's story. We don't know all the facts yet. We don't know all the details. so like
00:56:09
Speaker
Let's speculate. Right. I mean, cause that's, again, we don't, like, like you just said, Ian, A we're in the third episode. B I this, they did not retcon Anakin story or anything like that. Here's why, in my opinion, they mother Anasaya in the coven, they obviously created the the twins through the force right whereas Anakin was not created by any like by like a a witch or again as far as we know by Palpatine by anybody else it was the force itself
00:56:50
Speaker
right, created Anakin to bring balance, right? It's two very different things, right? Now, when Mother Anastasia during the ceremony when he talks about, you know, people seeing what they do is unnatural, right? You can you go back to Revenge of the Sith and that whole conversation between twelve Palpatine and Anakin during the opera, right? How he was talking about how his master right wanted to create life and that it was deemed unnatural. This is what he was talking about, right? These wizards were doing that way before them. And he was just, in my opinion,
00:57:32
Speaker
Palpatine's master, it could be Plagueis, we don't know that yet. I've seen EU it is. Is it possible to learn this power? Right. Not from a Jedi. Exactly. So again, no kids, this doesn't ruin anything. Your Star Wars isn't ruined. It actually, like you said, Ian, it enhances it a lot. A lot, I believe. Yeah. I think if it's executed well, it will actually prop up a lot of the things that we come to know from the prequel trilogy. 100% and I agree i agree with you and I think this will enhance I think down the road I think it's going to enhance if they keep going down this like thread of it, right of like seeing like these other cultures or other Societies using the force and using it in again deemed by some a natural way right, but obviously the Sith or the dark side was
00:58:25
Speaker
very aware of like witches and they were trying to do what they were doing for years and they couldn't they couldn't do it like them. Ang, what's your thoughts? I want to get your thoughts on the whole creation. Where do you land on it? Is your Star Wars ruined? No. My Star Wars and is enhanced. Enhance. Enhance photo. Enhance. um I mean, my jaw dropped when she said that. I mean, honestly. Right. And then I didn't even notice that there weren't other kids around that those were the only two kids. So we
Potential Retcons
00:59:02
Speaker
have that as well too. Um, you know, I love, uh, Darth Plagueis, the EU book and I have your read it multiple times. so I listened to it on audio, you know, it's, it's just beautiful. is This is just so good. But anyway, um,
00:59:24
Speaker
A lot of the focus around that, and then you think of a lot of focus around Palpatine is is like living forever, right? I want to live forever. I don't want to die. I want to do this for the next thousand years. I'm the ultimate big bad. I, I'm going to stay here forever and ruin and be the best. So when I think about like creating life, it's almost like the opposite, right? And then I think about the things that I've read in Darth Plagueis and there were, there were test subjects and there were, there were, you know, pickle jars and, and all that good stuff. And they were bits. There were things and things. And, um,
01:00:08
Speaker
for a minute, I was like, wait, did he did play us even like wanna create live pub didn't even wanna do that. And then like you go back to, ah let me tell you about the story of Darth Plagueis the Wise. And yes, that's exactly what Palpatine tells Anakin, Anakin, he wanted to do, right?
01:00:30
Speaker
Okay. That's kind of like where I get a little like, did Did he was that really what he was doing? Because in the EU, which is not canon, his master, Darth Tenebrous, was doing the experiment experimentation as well, too, and wasn't necessarily keeping Plagueis um in on on that information I mean because then so so without getting into any detail it's still muddy if this is a a Sith ah funded adventure or is this just a um witches of the coven with the thread adventure
01:01:15
Speaker
So that's like where I am with it right now, because you can take you can take that line from Revenge of the Sith and you can say creation of life creation of life. This is where it's coming from. This is where they got it. But um if you pull from if you decide to pull from EU references as well, too, I don't necessarily know if we are Darth Plagueis creation of life. Mother Anna say a creation of life same page.
01:01:46
Speaker
No, I agree. and That's a good point. That's a really good point. But I hope I'm wrong. I hope i hope that Darth Tenebrous is just like stirring up a vat of purple steam. yeah Me too. And he's just sprinkling in the creation, you know? I'm ready for it. I'm right there. i want I want there to be some deeper connections for sure. yeah um I think I like what I get no matter what. like As far as you know the lore that's being unfolded unraveled here is is all great stuff, but it would be nice if there was some connective tissue. right I'm going to step into my Khaimir cave for a second though. Andrea, you can be the one to tell me if I'm way off base here, your knowledge of
01:02:26
Speaker
Plagueis novel notwithstanding. But for me, I see those references too. And I didn't mention this when we spoke about this, Lauren, but the the line of absolution from Kaimir definitely rings as like, you know, Sith only deal in absolute. So I think the language, the the word choices in some of the dialogue definitely have meaning, like like they're deliberate. And therefore, when you use a word like unnatural, I can't help but think of my favorite scene in Revenge of the Sith, which is the opera scene. and the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise, and this idea that, okay, maybe Anakin was conceived from the Minichoreans as presented, or there's this idea that he was an experiment of the agents of the Dark Side, of the Sith. Could this, and Andrea, again, jump in if I'm way off base here, but could this not be either Plagueis or Palpatine's attempt
01:03:24
Speaker
actually bearing fruit like okay we we learned what we could from other force users whether it's dark force light you know that's to be determined but we we learned what we could uh outside of what the jedi teach we have what we know with the sith and now we've learned this ability to create life so could it be conceivable that this that anakin was their experiment that paid off that they weren't even aware of it at the time.
Anakin's Creation Influence
01:03:49
Speaker
But when he was discovered by Qui-Gon on Tatooine, they were confirmed that, yeah, we did it. And he is the agent of the dark side, the the rising Sith Lord to come and you know help Palpatine rise. So I think that there's there's a thread there that like
01:04:07
Speaker
they might, i hopefully that they're pulling out that there's some sort of connection between those two ah scenes because that word unnatural does not seem to be a happy coincidence, so. There was a moment in Plagueis where Palpatine, um, lets him know that there was a boy that was found, um, that's being tested, uh, for, um, that's the, deemed to be the chosen one and is strong in the force. And Plagueis asked him, he said, how, like how old?
01:04:41
Speaker
And he told him and he said, he thinks back to this moment that happened 10 years ago where he had this feeling of connection, this feeling of the light side of the force answering back to what they were doing. So that's where I'm like, yeah, I don't know if they had a hand in making Anakin because in, in EU literature, they didn't.
01:05:08
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, that's fair. I think that, um, Yeah, the legends seem to conflict with some of the stuff they're doing can nowadays, because I don't know if I should talk comic spoilers, but there's definitely a thread in Darth Vader, I think it's issue 25 of the Charles Soule run. yeah was he doing them Yeah, it seemed to be heavily implied that Palpatine at least knew Or maybe he discovered this and is tracing his steps backwards. But like he's basically aware of Anakin and him manipulating the whole thing with him and Padme and everything. So like there there was a heavy implication that he might have been behind even like like Shmi having a
01:05:49
Speaker
birthing Anakin. So I mean, there there was an implication there in the comics. So I wonder if that's sort of the thing that they're following. It's maybe just me. I love the the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise. and Maybe it doesn't line up with some of the stuff that came from some legends, but it'd be nice to see if that if that is a through line. Or at least if it was intentional that the unnatural creation thing was meant to mirror like what's happening with Anakin. Or at least maybe it's meant to be like the dark side version of You know, if Anakin was a manifestation of the light, maybe this is more like a manifestation of the dark. That's a good point. I like that idea that it could been the opposite of what Anakin became. And it's the creation of like, like you're saying, like the force, the light side of the force reacting to what was being attempted. Right. Exactly. Right. I like, I like that a lot, actually. I really liked that a lot.
01:06:46
Speaker
Again, i don't I don't think we will ever get that confirmed or denied or whatever, right?
Speculation Responsibility
01:06:54
Speaker
That Palpatine and his master or whoever was behind the creation of Anakin. In my personal opinion, I don't think that was George's intent. Right. I think his intent was just that this he was like this miracle. Right. Yes. Boy was yeah the chosen one. Right. Created by the force or the menichlorians or whatever. Right. Yeah. That's what I think they will stick with.
01:07:29
Speaker
It's fun though, again, in that comic of Charles Soule did for Vader, is it fun for us fans to be like, ooh, yeah, maybe, maybe not. Like to speculate irresponsibly, I guess. Right, but i think that's I think that's why they did it though, right? I think, again, I don't think Charles Soule just does that without having them like say, oh yeah, okay, that's fine, right? like i I truly don't think they just, let that happen without, you know, knowing what the reaction would be. Right. So that's why I like again, I and I think you're actually right. And I think the word unnatural is used very purposefully with mother and a say like that is again, I think that's why they use it is because.
01:08:20
Speaker
of that scene, of that opera scene. i really I really believe that. I think they're just trying to, again, not directly tie, but say, hey, remember when he was talking about this? Like, this is kind of what they were referring to, was that this these witches were able to do what Palpatine and his master were attempting to do as well, but they never, again, never succeeded like they did. Yeah, that's ah that's a fair point, because I actually do believe that Anakin is the chosen one. So it it's like it's a nice thought that he just came from the Force, but then he made the choice to go dark, because it's like it's ultimately about choice at the end of the day. But but you know you can be the chosen one and still go down the wrong path, is basically what they're saying. ah But I also think that you know it'd be a misstep if we don't somehow
01:09:17
Speaker
say that like maybe if we're going to establish that it's happened before like they just did in this episode that Plagueis has learned about this because of something like this that that's what he's being obsessing about because he knows it's possible and that kind of stuff because of this story that he's heard that still links like you know it's still a through line from this story to what we know from the prequel trilogy i think that would be nice because it's like it's too close of a Like what everyone's freaking out about, I think that they they won't need to freak out if they've done their homework and they do this properly. um They won't need to be screaming from the mountaintops so that Star Wars is ruined because they've thought out this process and they know they want to go from A to B to C and
Mysteries and Future Revelations
01:10:01
Speaker
all this stuff. So so I think we're on the right track as far as our speculation.
01:10:08
Speaker
What either of you like prefer that Anakin was created by a Darkseid user? like is No, I don't want that. I love me some some Sith. I love me some Darkseid. And like, honestly, like I think it would be a fun idea to entertain. I don't think it necessarily negates the idea of the chosen one, because maybe, you know, it's still like maybe you manipulated the events, but maybe he still is, that you know, the chosen one. of the right So it's it's not really like it's inconsequential that way. But I do think it'd be interesting because especially because the Skywalker saga starts with the Phantom Menace.
01:10:43
Speaker
ends with the rise of Skywalker, where Palpatine has proven, you know, somehow he returned. ah He proved he like, I don't know why that was, such a I think the execution was what everyone was hung up on as to like, oh, he just came back, like all of a sudden he's just here. But I think like, if you really step back and look at the nine films of the Skywalker saga, it's all laid out for you in Revenge of the Sith. It all paints this picture of whether it's Revenge of the Sith, Then Palpatine, he's the Emperor trying to take over the galaxy and once and for all in Return of the Jedi, or him coming back. His coming back in Rise of Skywalker is him proving that he was on the right path with this whole idea of ah manipulating or cheating the ability to cheat death, right? Because eventually like eventually it was his
01:11:32
Speaker
power his dark side powers with the Sith that enabled him to linger on and and come back and return to be the big bad of the entire saga. So it's it's always been about like Palpatine and then you know Skywalker and and their relationship. So i think that yeah I think that we're kind of pulling at the the right, we're all pulling at the same thread it sounds like. But as far as like whether it should be a creation of either the dark side or the light side, I don't think it would really change the outcome. And you could argue too that if they went down that road, which again, I don't i don't want them to, not that I would hate it, because I would like, how they were presented I think is a big thing, right? How they would go about like showing that if that's the case. But I think them doing it, we you could argue that because of what they did, like the light side, like maybe
01:12:33
Speaker
felt that, you know, and felt that presence and then they did the than the force, the light side of the force or the force itself, maybe stop Anakin from be becoming bad and he became the chosen one because they were, they so they understood what Palpatine and or his master were trying to do, right? Because it wasn't really in, like you're saying Ian, Palpatine's thing was living forever. his master was the one that wanted and was like obsessed with like creating life. Right. Right. right So that. So Palpatine wanted to cheat death, whereas Plagueis more so wanted to create life. Yeah. Right. And then again, if they wanted to connect the whole Plagueis stuff, like you're saying, Ange, I think they could do that easily and just say, yeah, this is what Plagueis or whoever was referring to when he said he wanted to create life because
01:13:32
Speaker
You knew it was possible. Because of these is these events of of the acolyte, he knew that it was possible. Do you really believe that they created life? i mean It's only been said to us once. We didn't see it. i think we have already some things There's no receipts. There could have been like a turkey baster involved. you know
01:13:59
Speaker
You never know fair fair. I'm just saying all fair fair points Andrea fair points as for sure but no I yeah, I think I think we do have to just take it as Yes, mother and a say I was able to create these two beings with the help of witch magic and Did you notice the relationships? Like Mother Anisaya definitely feels like, you know, they go to her like she's the mother. mom she is She is the leader overall, but she's also personally with Oceania and Mae feels like their mom, whereas like, yeah, they have two moms. it's it's It's presented to us in the story, but you can see how Coral, their relationship is very different. Like she scolds them a lot, and but they don't even go to her when it comes to like,
01:14:46
Speaker
you know, emotional, like meaning deep, meaningful conversation, like they go to Mother Aniseya, like, yeah, they have these two mother figures, but like one of them is more like a motherly figure. And one of them is more like, you know, hardened, like, you know, maybe fearful of, you know, maybe more protective. I think they're both protective, but Coral just seems like, no, we gotta, we gotta keep them secret, keep them safe. Yeah, and e again, that part of that too though, Ian, could be maybe that obviously Coral just sees, like you're saying, because mother Anisia is like the leader, she's just defaulting to her like being the the mother, even though she, that like she told her and she threw it in her face. Like I was the one that, you know,
01:15:32
Speaker
bird carried those that Yeah. And she's like, uh, I created them. So like, what are we talking about? Like, yeah, I think, I think mother Anna say has like the most quote unquote power, even though she's saying she doesn't wield it. Right. And then again, and she made it and ah mother and say, I made it clear that both OSHA and may, even though we just see may, She did make it clear that both are powerful,
Episode Ending Reflections
01:15:59
Speaker
right? And even mother Quora was upset at Osho when she didn't like black or whatever. She's like, I expect more. So like, clearly they both are very powerful. But I think maybe, again, this is the force, this thread.
01:16:17
Speaker
Even though they created these two beings, one again, powerful light, powerful dark. And I will always go back to that. Like there's a reason why they are, you know, one is maybe more on the dark side and then the others are the light side because of balance, right? It's always about, It's always about balance, right? Plus, I feel like the force abilities manifest themselves differently based on like, if you're a dark side user, like someone like the Sith, you're tapping into things like anger, fear, you know, all these things to bring that power out. Which Mei is. Mei clearly taps into, right? Whereas I feel like a Jedi needs to be like, you know, at peace with themselves, tranquil in order to bring out light side abilities. Like that sure, they could tap into the dark side, I'm sure. Like, you know, if they wanted to. but like
01:17:01
Speaker
You know, the force, I think depending on what you're trying to do with it, it's like different emotions. different You know, threads, you got to pull it. Yeah. And that's clearly show like, again, clearly, May is very again, her fear of the family breaking up and everything that's pushing her. But is that being manipulated? I think we should talk a bit more about the where this this episode goes, because, you know, we put a pin on the whole fire thing, but that's where it really starts to break out. Right. So yeah, there's there's some more angles to this thing and is is May
01:17:34
Speaker
is it just me that's been doing all this stuff because i think there's i think i don't know if it's necessarily just me lighting a book on fire that does all this stuff to the whole comment. Yeah no like i mean i definitely want to dive in that i'm but i'm glad you brought it up and let's let's let's talk that start kind of wrapping up here your thoughts on the very end right we see maze does start the fire. Although soul says you see me light a book on fire. Right. Is what we see. Right. Right. And ah somehow soul saw her start the fire, which he was. And that's again, that's another. I think soul was told that may started that fire. Don't you dare try to make soul out to be the. no i So I am. Don't you dare. He is. He's precious. He's innocent. A hundred percent. But I, but yeah, all she did was a light, light a book.
01:18:29
Speaker
So there's way more than that. And then even when OSHA is going through that like tunnel and you hear all that commotion above her. What is that? Right. Is that. I don't think may started whatever that was. No, I think that's when either this. Act they like the spark to ignite the fire that would create. Right. Right. But I. Either it was, again, maybe this mysterious, aculite figure, right? Or could it have been the Jedi, but was it because the Jedi were provoked from the, from the coven? Again, there's so much more to this. So, Ange, though, where do you, where do you, where do you go with what, what we, what we see and what do you believe
01:19:28
Speaker
could be the truth where you go with all that. Do I think that three Jedi maybe four could go and annihilate a group of people um and just leave them for dead? No, I don't. ah Force users, no less, not just a group of random people. Right, right. And yeah, and they're force users.
01:19:51
Speaker
What I go back to is when Torben's eyes turned black and what did he see and what did he take in in that moment, right? And what causes him to do the barrage bow later on and also need absolution and and take his own life. So to me, there's way more to the story in it. We're going to we're going to see um something pretty heavy with what Torben was affected by um when he his eyes did turn all black. It was in the preview. It's just like I think it's going to be like a really big part.
01:20:29
Speaker
um I just don't think Jedi are slaying people. I just don't. I just never. i don't I don't think that whatsoever. um There's no lightsaber burns. there's no But there's also no burns. There's no smoke. There's no nothing. There's just a group of people lying dead. um So it's just really questionable. and And, it and again, like, I don't want to think bad of soul either, but he he seems very gullible and naive, like through through the also seen him lie. Yeah, through these actions is just like really, really crazy. So um we're going to we're going to get more. And I don't think the Jedi massacred these people. I hope not.
01:21:29
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think they, met I don't think they massacred, would I? where I go with it. But I also don't like the idea that they they placed they placed the blame on Mae with OSHA. Oh, your sister started that fire. Oh, your sister killed your family. Right. I don't like that whatsoever because that is not the truth of it. So is the truth so terrible that it's making it worth screwing her up for life? Right. that And then they're like, oh, she's kind of figuring it out. I think we need to kick her out ah out of our club. You're out of here. Go hang out on the outside of ah of spaceships. You'll be all right. So it's got to be something we're not expecting. Hands down. This is where I go with it. I think that the Jedi were reacting to maybe seeing the fire. I think
01:22:29
Speaker
I think that when they arrived, a lot of commotion. I think that since we saw it in this episode and Torben's like eyes gloss over, I think that's what happens. And I don't know if it's a mother coral, right? Mother Anastasia or one of the other sisters that's that little old one could be. Could be, I think they possessed or did something to, it could have been Torbin again. And I think that's why, maybe that's why he took the Burashi vow. Maybe that's why she's saying confess to your crimes. Because- That's why Kalnaka supposedly attacks him. Right, because you we see that, we see that. So again, that's where I go with it is that I think
01:23:23
Speaker
They arrive and I think they commotion all that and I think the like one of the mothers again, it could be could it could be a mother coral could be another one of the mothers could be mother and Isaiah they might have possessed one of them and Then in that reaction the Jedi had to protect themselves And then again, I don't I don't think they massacred I agree with you and but they did I they they stood by for sure and they only wanted to save Osha and May. yeah I think that's that's where I
Fire Incident and Blame
01:24:05
Speaker
go with it. i I feel like something happened where they possessed one of the, and I think it's Torben, I think they possessed him and he started doing some wacky stuff and then they had to like help him out. And then with with whatever happened, it was just,
01:24:23
Speaker
It was just out of control, the fire was out of control, whatever happened, happened. And then they just, and I agree with you, Ang, I think it's, they just blame Mae for it, which is really, it is, I think it's really sad because all she did was light the book. There's no way that that started the entire thing. And I'm not convinced she did it on her own volition. I agree with you, Ian. I agree with Ian. So and yeah, so yeah, go ahead. But what what do you think about the whole fire, who started it or where like, where where do you go again from what we have right now?
Torben's Involvement
01:25:02
Speaker
Where do you go? I do know that the fire spreads and conceivably could spread to the magnitude of what we saw. But I think you're both making great points. And Andrea, you mentioned that bringing up Torben was a great point because it doesn't get to that level of
01:25:20
Speaker
you know, I'm assuming, again, engaging them with the story we're presented that he's taking the barrage you bow. Because of this incident, like this incident sets him down this the path he's on and ultimately takes his own life because of the guilt. That doesn't go down that way if it's exactly as we saw it and we're never going to see more. Like if it's just me lighting the fire and the Jedi were there, they could feel bad about how they approached it and everything. But he's not going down that path based on these events alone, right? So when she's crawling through the tunnel and things are happening above her and the witches are screaming and everything like that, I think there's definitely more going on. Now, I think Torbin is a
01:26:01
Speaker
big key because I don't know if you've rewatched the episode or if you caught it on the first go around but when Osha's on the ship and they're headed to Coruscant you can see Torben staying in the background and his it's kind of a blurred shot but he does have the scar on his face that we see him have later in life. when he's When he's meditating in the temple, that big scar that runs down his face was not there when they first went to visit the covenant of witches. So this happened during this incident with the fire.
01:26:34
Speaker
And so I think you're on the right track, Lauren. I think he's involved. I think it's more so that he's a good choice for this because he's the padawan. So I think he's been exposed to the, you know, the fear tactics, whatever aggression they pulled on him probably deeply affected him. And that would spark fear within him. Therefore, if there was a conflict around two, so to speak, he could be that one that maybe has the moment that Luke had in the that we see in the Last Jedi work. he ignites the lightsaber out of fear that something's gonna happen and maybe that's what escalates everything but ultimately he gets a scar on the face out of it so there's gonna be a battle between these two forces I think and I think that that's gonna
01:27:20
Speaker
That's going to show you that there's good and bad on both sides. that they're not Neither side is approaching this um like you know
Mother Coral's Motives
01:27:28
Speaker
morally unquestionable. like you know i mean like that Neither side isn't going to come out clean, but i think I'm hoping at least that there's some plausible deniability for Sol that we can save one of these four Jedi in the process because I think that they're all going to be complicit in ways. And Soul's not going to be completely clean, but I think his intentions are there. I would hate to see a complete reversal on his character because they've done a lot of work with him and Osha and like trying to be like that kind of mentor figure for her. So it'd be nice to kind of keep some of that intact. But I do think Torbin was involved. I think Kalnaka and Andara, they're probably all
01:28:04
Speaker
ah you know, fighting, but ah but then there's a flip side to that. So that's what i I was kind of alluding to before is I think Coral is also a very headstrong witch within this covenant who wants to preserve their way of life and sees the Jedi as, you know, unwanted outsiders. And she might be manipulating some of these events. So whether or not the dark side of, you know, the Sith are involved in all of this, because it'd be interesting, right? Because she is a Zabrak.
01:28:36
Speaker
And it's it's kind of nice at the very basis, like, you know, we we already mentioned our thoughts on Kaimir being heavily implied as being involved with the Acolyte and the Sith. So to have another character be questionable Could they be involved in to kind of throw the it's not just Kaimir we're looking at now Maybe we could be looking at coral because coral ah She has a lot of motivation, right? Because if she we did not see her lying there with mother NSA and the rest of the witches so if she made it out of this then she would have a lot of Motive to be getting involved with the Sith and getting back of the Jedi
01:29:14
Speaker
So it you know that might be the wild speculation of it, but I think at the very least we see Korol taking May away from Mother Aniseya while she talks to Osha and gives Osha her blessing to leave the coven and join the the ranks of the Jedi. And the the next scene after that is May confronting her in the bedroom. So did Korol take her away? and really kind of leave an impression on her as to what her expectations were and lead her down the path of no, you cannot let Osha leave, you cannot let the Jedi take her, do whatever you can, kill her if you have to, kind of plant these ideas in Mei's mind to where she's kind of already being manipulated. So I think that's kind of where they're gonna go as far as like the fire, she starts it, but I think someone's helping spread it. I think someone's trying to,
01:30:08
Speaker
really create like a divide here and or or make a stand that like you know this cannot stand and someone's manipulating at least this fire to to make it whether or not that's the Jedi maybe the Jedi are involved in exacerbating the situation and taking a small fire and making it a bigger fire maybe not even intentionally but maybe just their meddling and this whole conflict makes it a bigger deal than it it already was. But I think that it's it's ultimately not down to Mei. And I think we could end up seeing redemption arc for her. And it might even be a situation where as Mei starts to seem less and less culpable in all this, like being manipulated by dark forces,
01:30:52
Speaker
that OSHA could be maybe the one that starts to be manipulated and turned to the dark side by the end
Mae's Redemption Arc
01:30:57
Speaker
of it. So we'll see. But there could be a there could be a twist. Interesting, interesting. I like that a lot. I like that a lot. it could I mean, it has been all it's on May so far, but like you're saying, Ian, there's. We didn't see Mother Coral right in the in the aftermath. And that's a really good point of after, you know, when Mother Ancea is talking to Osho and she you know told Coral to take May out. She could have planted seeds 100% to force May to understand that what she has to do is for the betterment of the coven, right? And it doesn't matter that that's her sister. can't let that She can't let that happen.
01:31:46
Speaker
And it could be of ah a so it could be that like maybe Mother Coral was maybe like in her head too, and that wasn't really Mae, so to speak. And then in the aftermath, Coral told her the story that Mae knows of now. You know, again, yeah, there's a lot there's a lot that could that could have happened for sure. Uh, and Jenny, any final thoughts on the fire or any fun speculation you want to go down? I really feel Frisbrox, you know, cause they just look so intimidating. They get a bad rap. They get a bad rap, man. I think something bad happened, pointing the finger right at them. Man, those horns, those devilish eyes. I feel so bad for them. That's fair. No, but I never even, um, that was a really great connection, Ian, of
01:32:41
Speaker
ah Mother coral taking me off to the side and then here we go like all of a sudden um There's me confronting ocean. There's a fire. So um I feel like that that tracks But I would like to believe that she's actually the nice one out of the out of the the couple You know you have a nice one and a mean one, you know, I feel like Yeah, we're getting it wrong
01:33:08
Speaker
Who knows? Who knows? Right. Yeah. Does that mean, though, that you think she's not that mother and a say is not being genuine with OSHA when she's saying, oh, yeah, we're going to let you go? You think that there's another side to that? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Story Direction and Expectations
01:33:23
Speaker
I don't even think they were going to let OSHA go. I think that they were going to discuss it and take her feelings and her needs or her wants into consideration. um I don't know. Yeah. That that doesn't mean they were going to be okay with it. Yeah. it I mean, it i to me, like.
01:33:47
Speaker
I don't know. yeah People get in power, um, that have power, um, abuse it, you know, so, i you know, it's, it's just hard to see. And, and to say, I have no idea that's like super speculation. I don't even want to go there, but, um, I would never believe that she's, um, always looking out for the best of intentions for everybody. Yeah. And we will, we will find out, right. Who's. Who's really behind it? Obviously, this is what this is the whole the whole show, right, is this event. And yeah, I think we will we will definitely like I said earlier, I think we'll be at least one more time. We'll see this event. Right. Maybe twice. I just feel like there's just so much again, there's so many answers.
01:34:43
Speaker
so many questions unanswered that they have we have to go back, right? To see, again, from May's point of view or even from the Coven's point of view of that night, right? Or the Jedi, really. I mean, I think the next view has to be the Jedi. So do you guys want to hear? I'll ask you guys both a question. Do you want, and i'll and you know i'll have I'll start with you, do you want to go back to that night again right away next episode? Or do you want to skip like goil go to present and then maybe go back after more information? What do what do you feel?
01:35:23
Speaker
well As much as I like an entire episode being in a flashback, we need to get back to the present and engage with some of the other characters. Yordhord needs to, you know, keep getting fueled and, uh, you know, Jackie Jam and all that good stuff because we we want to see how they factor into it and how they, uh, are being portrayed throughout this whole thing. So like the guy behind the mask, we're talking about the dark side user. I think there's got to be a connection as far as, OK, he clearly sees the Jedi as the enemy for all these reasons we've been talking about. um They're not as ah altruistic as they appear in at times. So is this something where the Sith are at play and they're looking at this other group of Force users and they're manipulating their hatred towards the Jedi to do their bidding?
01:36:17
Speaker
um So yeah, there's a there's a lot to be revealed. And I think we need to jump back to the present. We need to get a couple more episodes in. ah We might see this event play out one or two more times, hopefully at least one more time. I would think if it's one more than maybe just an ultimate episode really, just like getting us set up for the finale. um But I definitely think we need another episode, maybe not a full one, to be honest, but at least like half an episode where we're seeing the same events play out, but from a different point of view. Yeah, no, I'd like that at least one more time. I feel like we need to revisit for sure. And what what do you feel? Do we need to go back? Do you want to go back? Do you want to stay in the in the past? Next episode, what do you got? Yeah, I mean, um either way, you know, this this part is fresh in my mind. um I have my my wheels are are turning a little hamster wheels up there and and
01:37:13
Speaker
Well, he has a bunch of questions and wants to get an answer. So, um, if we go right back into what happened on Brendan, and sometimes I think maybe we will, if we go to where Kalnaka is and we maybe find out if something happened between him and Torben and, and all of that. So maybe we will get like. a flashback that way but I don't I don't know I have trust and faith in the people that are heading this project up that we will um be told the story in the way that it needs to be told I do like disagree though I think
01:37:49
Speaker
what we're going to, we might not see the same story from a different point of view. I think we might see the parts were missing, right? So what was happening? Um, because what mace, what OSHA saw was real. That was true, right? That's not mean what that, what that was. That's exactly how it did happen. But what we're missing is the parts that she didn't see. So I feel like that's where that's going to come in and then everything is just going to interconnect. It's a good point. I yeah really want to see Kal Naka, like, okay, because before we knew we were getting this flashback episode, we saw Kal Naka on Kofar. You know, May, even though she could be the acolyte of this whole series, is not really fighting with like a red lightsaber. She's fighting with her own skill set and she's got the knives. She tried the
01:38:42
Speaker
Bunta on and the poison on Torbin. um She's trying to take somebody out without a weapon, but I don't realistically think that's happening against a Wookie. How can you physically outmaneuver a Wookie without any weapons? So I would love to see her maybe use a bow and arrow, like we've seen the other witches use. i yeah oh She's like in a forest. using a bow and arrow to try and take down Kalnaka. That'd be kind of cool. ah But definitely she's she's on this mission. We got to get kind of get back to that mission. And I think you're right, Andrea. At the very least, we want to see those missing pieces. But I think they'll hold off until a couple episodes down the road to fill us in on the other side of it.
01:39:23
Speaker
Yeah, maybe and like you're saying, Ian, maybe even just half of an episode, right, that just, again, fills those gaps and then maybe we just, we move on or whatever. Yeah, we're definitely going back, though. i Yeah, we we have to go back, because I think, again, what this episode did was left more questions and answers. I also wanted to ask if either of you felt like the title was any sort of, other than the thematics behind the word destiny, we've seen episodes one and two,
'Destiny' Title Significance
01:39:54
Speaker
right? They were hybrid titles, right? They were lost versus found, and they were revenge versus justice. And then this time, we get a whole entire flashback episode 16 years in the past, and it's a one word, destiny. And in my interpretation of that is, we're seeing both May and Osha
01:40:12
Speaker
like having these very like losses versus found like very different journeys. Whereas in the actual flashback in Destiny, we learn from mother and I say that their destiny is intertwined that nothing could break their bond. So maybe that's why it's only one or is it only one because like we have to see the flip side perspective. We've seen one and then when you see the others. So there's there's different ways you could approach that. But I think there's always been an interesting thing going on with these ah Star Wars Disney Plus series where the titles seem to have like a deeper meaning every time. So that's that's what I like about it.
01:40:50
Speaker
Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. Again, right. Is it destiny because we're only looking at one one of their perspectives or is it because they're together and this is the beginning of this journey, their destiny, right? both Like before their divergence where it is now they're separate. So they have right separate like sort of titles. Yeah. Right, right, right. So that that's where I go with it. But I'd like that, like you're saying, though, it could just be because we're only seeing one. Right. And then the next one will be from, again, maybe May's point of view, and it's called whatever. Right. yeah I could be I could be done with that, too. And what do you what do you think of all that?
01:41:32
Speaker
I thought it was interesting that it was a single word because I really picked up on the the word slash word on the on the first two and I thought that that's kind of how we would always see the format for the titles with the two twins heading in different directions and feeling um just polarizing feeling so I I think it's the word that like here's here. Here's the core story, right? This is this is what they were meant to do. This is what was meant to happen. And then their choices were made. So I think that's where that comes from. I like that. That makes sense. That makes sense for sure.
Resonating Star Wars Themes
01:42:15
Speaker
All right, guys, this has been a really fun episode. Great discussion. Final thoughts, Ian, I'll throw it to you, my friend. Any final thoughts you want to bring up about the episode or anything? What you got?
01:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, regardless of how you're feeling coming out of that flashback and how you're feeling about maybe the Jedi or the witches, I think, you know, even what we've talked about here today is a testament to how deep that some of these themes can resonate and how, like, really when you step back and look at it, like, there's a lot going on with with these storylines. They're really pulling out the thread, you know no pun intended, at what Star Wars is truly about and why we like coming back to these stories and revisiting them and looking at them at different angles. and
01:42:59
Speaker
That's what I took away from this episode. like we're We're probably going to have a different feeling about this whole thing once the series wraps. But in the moment, um it's fun to kind of explore these what-ifs and these ideas of ah different ah perspectives on the force or the thread. And you know seeing this covenant of witches and how they operate differently very differently from the Jedi, it's been a fun experience. So overall, ah I'm still in the bag for the Acolyte. umm I'm 100% with you on that one. It's been a fun journey so far. And I think we're just scratching the surface. Honestly, we really are. I think we're I think this will go places that I don't think we're even thinking about. Honestly, I just feel like it's the story that they're setting up. It can go so many different ways, like you're saying, Ian, like we are just at episode three and we have, again, so many more questions than
01:43:58
Speaker
Answers now so that just that just shows how well I think the story is being presented to us and I think how engaging the story is like you talked about to where these themes like this is you know, we're going beyond the the surface level stuff and we really want to dive in to the deeper stuff because of how Leslie and her team are presenting the story because it's asking these questions. It wants us, right? They want us to have these deeper, I think, nuanced conversations and just the surface level like, oh, hey, cool, lightsaber or blasters or ships or like whatever. Right. I mean, that's is that's how you like Star Wars. That's that's that's fine. But I like how the this series is really bringing out. More of the deeper conversations, right? And more and kind of pushing our
01:44:51
Speaker
thoughts on what we maybe knew and what we thought of the Jedi or thought of this and that. And like, we're re-examining our positions on stuff. It's it's been great. They're pushing the envelope, right? Yeah. Oh, no, I agree. Oh, a hundred percent they are for sure. And what you got, my friend? What's what's your final thoughts? Yeah, I'm right there with you, Lauren. on The intention of this show is is to make fans ah think deeper. I mean, just look back to at what we just talked about. We've gone from polling references from EU all the way up to The Rise of Skywalker, um all the way back to things
Cross-Generational Elements
01:45:28
Speaker
that have happened in Clone Wars with Ahsoka, and then also bringing up things from the new High Republic ah novels.
01:45:35
Speaker
like This show very discreetly is crossing over different eras and different generations that people don't even notice yet. Um, and I think that's what's really fascinating about it. Um, I think when this is all said and done, when people look back appropriately and analyze this, it's, it's going to be a heavy end and, um, this single like maybe work of art. I wonder if, you know, cause she has like Kill Bill inspiration. I wonder if we're going to get a black and white episode, you know? Oh, that'd be wild. Kind of like when she went back to train with, what's his name? Ooh, that would be cool if she did something like that. For when they did the battle. No, they didn't do that, didn't they? White and black and white.
Creative Storytelling Recognition
01:46:29
Speaker
Who know? I'd be down with doing that. That'd be cool though. Yeah. I mean,
01:46:34
Speaker
Leslie has some really cool, I think, inspirations. I mean, she said, and we talked about this, I think even on the podcast too, Ian, how her influences were like Frozen meets Kill Bill or whatever. Like. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. It's wild. Like she, just by that alone, you're like, she is. Creatively like out there and really wants to put a fascinating story together. And I think they they've accomplished that yeah I don't think anyone can really say like they're approaching this lazily like this This is like they have you know, they're taking bold swings. They they know this is an entirely new unchartered territory. These are like
01:47:14
Speaker
is a new era for live action to be absorbing Star Wars. And they're doing it. They're not really doing it by the book. There's resonating themes. There's stuff that you know rings throughout all Star Wars. But then there's also brand new territory that they're exploring, which is like probably the most fun part for me right now. Yeah, I think the new the new takes and the new just ideas that she's presenting again, Leslie and her team. I always want to say the team because this is just more than just, you know, obviously her her venture. Obviously, she's a big part of it, but obviously she has created a team that is telling this story. So I just can't take seriously like the the criticisms of like you're ruining my Star Wars. It's like, guys, like this isn't just one person running willy nilly like they're obviously running it by
01:48:03
Speaker
the right people at Lucasfilm. There's gonna be an overall vision for where they wanna go and I don't know, there's reactionary elements to social media are not really doing the show any good. Agreed on that, ah agreed on that. All right, well, this has been a lot of fun, a lot of deep talk and this it's it's been good. This is what I love about Star Wars that we talk about it this way, because again, it's more than just the surface level stuff. It's a lot of deep themes, a lot of ideas that are being presented to us. And it's fun. It's fun to chat about it. So, Ian, my friend, thank you so much for joining
Guest Podcast Promotion
01:48:47
Speaker
us. This is a lot of fun. I'm glad I got you on. Tell them plug away where they can find you, where they can find all the shows and anything else that you do. Go ahead.
01:48:56
Speaker
Oh, thanks so much for having me. I've had a lot of fun, you know, following along with the Galactic podcast. And now I've finally had a chance to be on an episode. So that's great. Back in my day, that's the podcast where, you know, stere not so stereotypical millennials have talk about the things that we love from our childhood. And you can find us at Day Back In on social media. Most platforms were where we can be found and wherever podcasts can be found, you can find back in my day. So yeah, just give us a listen. Let us know what you think. Love that. Go give them a listen, guys. They have really fun conversations besides Star Wars, like I said, Batman, DC, Marvel, they do a lot of fun, fun stuff. So go check them out.
01:49:37
Speaker
And as always, guys, you can follow us at Galactic Podcast at the Galactic Pod on all the social medias. You can follow us on Apple Pod, Google Play, Spotify, all those major platforms. And you can follow me, LordRimoat, LoRoNose on all the social medias.
BTS Update
01:49:55
Speaker
You can follow me, AndreaGutiAras, at r2d2step on Twitter, X, Instagram threads.
01:50:05
Speaker
Any BTS update, Ang? Jin is out of the military and home. Yes. There you go. There you go. My favorite part of the show. So good. It's a BTS update, kids. So is he bringing out new music then? Oh my God. Can I just tell you? Okay. So he gets out of the military, right? And the other members ah were either able to like take leave that day or were able to um see his like arrival his dismissal like and all that stuff. And it was just like so cute and wild.
01:50:37
Speaker
and like Namjoon was like playing the saxophone the entire time and it was just like the weirdest thing either like he thought it was gonna be emotional and people are gonna be crying and then like and it was just madness just how they should be and then the next day he had a fan show of like a thousand people and he performed songs for them and hugged every single person And it's like, oh man, to to be an army, like you're just not worthy of it. like To think this man like had 18 months away from his family, away from his friends, um but also creating new family, new friends within that time as well, too, and and the the pressures of of being in the military. And then he's like, I gotta see Army, you know? I got i gotta to get out and I gotta see my fans instantly ah is just so telling of how connected they are with their fandom. It's so cool. You're making me wish that fans would apply the same love and appreciation for Star Wars.
Conclusion and Wrap-Up
01:51:40
Speaker
I agree. Celebration, I'm telling you. Celebration is gives you those vibes. Yeah, it's a definitely vibe for for sure. portion One day.
01:51:49
Speaker
One day. There you go. We got to get in there either. So we will do it to maybe 2027 when it comes back ah to the U.S. Again, my assumption anyway. So. All right, guys, that's it. That's the show. I hope you guys enjoyed it. And as always, may that force be with you. Always. Always. Always.