Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 8: Witness Marks
22 Plays7 months ago
And we're back after an unplanned summer break! Here are Noah and Laura discussing episode 8: Witness Marks. Fair warning, Laura has a massive case of laryngitis that did not get fixed in post, nor replaced by AI. In this episode Steve gifts his mom a restored vanity, Luke tries to burn down Hill House, and adult Steve learns he did see ghosts as a child. Did you notice the dead clocksmith? Beware when watching along, this is the episode that has the absolute best jump scare of the season!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Host Self-Introductions
00:00:02
Speaker
It's time for House on the Hill. What? It's haunted. Do you mean the haunting of a hill house? Exactly. Let's go.
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome back everyone to Fans of Flan again. We are continuing our journey into the Haunting of Hill House. I am Noah. I'm Laura and I have no voice. I really thought that was going to come out smoother. I'm Laura. oh seven hope We'll fix it. We'll fix it in post and then fix it in post. You'll end up going, I'm, and it's going to be like some robotic voice. This is Laura.
00:01:26
Speaker
more
00:01:31
Speaker
Anyway, this week, our- Just AI my whole transcript, this whole episode. Yeah, for the entire episode. Just AI it. There's some people that like it. I've got a friend that's like, I kind of like your laryngitis voice. It reminds me of Phoebe and friends. You know who you are, girl. It reminds me of your good friend, but she loses her voice and she's like- Exactly. She's like, she's singing voice. I can't-
00:01:57
Speaker
Bye, babies.
Laura's Media Recommendations
00:01:59
Speaker
Anyway, this week we are discussing episode eight, Witness Marks. But before we get into that, we are going to ask the question we always ask, Laura, do you feel like talking about what you've been but even watching? I do, because I want to talk about a movie that I've
00:02:19
Speaker
I've not finished it yet, but I'm mostly done. Called Dream Scenario with Nicolas Cage. I didn't even know this movie existed. I don't know why I saw. No promos, no trailers, no commercials, nothing. But it's so, maybe because it's like a very not sexy Nicolas Cage.
00:02:37
Speaker
like i His character is very old and very awkward and like a little like cringy. but that so me I don't know if that's why, but my brother turned me on to it. um But it's kind of a cool movie where people start having dreams about this guy. At first, they're just kind of little weird. He's just in the dream, they're doing nothing. And then it turns on the dreamer and everybody's all of a sudden scared of him in real life. And he has no control over it. And it's not his fault, but he's getting all of the effects on it. So there's a lot of like metaphors, you can tune into that to real life. But um that's a really interesting movie. And I've been watching it in small doses, because it's a little stressful. ah but i And then I wanted to
00:03:26
Speaker
talk about the book you recommended to me off the air, Scythe. Yes, you read it? By Schusterman. I just finished listening to it. It was so cool. Yes. It roped me in paragraph one paragraph one. I was like, what the heck is this? And then ah It got really good. And then it kind of like tapered off a little, it goes in all these directions that I didn't, I, you don't expect. So it's kind of like what's going to happen next, but it was a really cool book. So I think I'll listen to the next one soon. Yeah. The next one is a little bit of a slog. Um, not, not as bad as some of the, but do you have to get through that one to get to the next one? It is yeah one better.
00:04:15
Speaker
The last one is insane. Um, okay. But the second one is a little slow. There are some interesting elements, a part of it. Um, but the, the third book is crazy. So, well, I would just want to mention like the general plot because my husband had like a funny question about it because I was telling him about the book. So it's basically like this utopian future.
00:04:43
Speaker
where they figured out how to give people immortality. Basically you can even like reset your age. They don't have problems with food so shortages. They don't have problems with illness or old age or anything. And um so basically they can't, but they still can't, for some reason they still can't support like an overpopulation.
00:05:09
Speaker
So they have to... well they can, but that that becomes part of a the other book discussion anyway. anyway Right. But that's like the the assumption that you kind of get to is that like they're mimicking times of old where people die and they're trying to match that so that there's, I don't know, my understanding was that so there there wasn't too many people on the planet or whatever. That's why. So they have the society of people that go around and kill people to mimic the illnesses, the injuries and the accidents, right? Mm-hmm.
00:05:40
Speaker
And my husband said, well, if they're so perfect, why don't they just like venture off into space and colonize other planets and moons and things? And I'm like, oh, that's a good question. I don't know. But then they address it later and say that they tried to, but every single time they tried, people died and it freaked them out so much that they had no control over people dying that they just stopped.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah, that was that's what was a good read. Thank you for that recommendation. ah You're welcome. um It's, it's a really good trilogy. I loved it. It took me a little longer to get through the second one, like I've said, but the third book is worth it in my opinion. um The first book was a amazing. know It ropes you in. It's very interesting. You're following along these two apprentices. You don't know what's going to happen. Um, and if you, if you get an inkling, it's completely wrong. And so it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.
00:06:44
Speaker
So, um yeah, I will continue to recommend that trilogy because it's really good. Even if it's a young adult, it's still really good. Oh, no, I love a a young adult book and series. They're some of my favorite. Yeah. I watched Basic Instinct,
00:07:05
Speaker
which but was on the original one. Yeah. The one with, um was it Michael Douglas? Yeah. capstone who Why? ah You know, I don't know. it Because it looked it looked interesting. I'd heard people talk about it. I knew nothing about the movie besides what the description is on was it Netflix or wherever it's streaming.
00:07:32
Speaker
um
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, I um i don't think I'm ever going to watch that one again. That was a very uncomfy movie. Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I know enough of it to understand. Yeah. Half of it was Jacqueline and I just laughing to each other because...
Discussing 'Shogun' and 'Three-Body Problem'
00:07:55
Speaker
um Anyway, I also have been watching the Hulu FX series Shogun, and I have been loving it so far.
00:08:09
Speaker
it's a ja It's like a Japanese Game of Thrones without all the mysticism and the fantasy. you know Interesting. It's really interesting. um The premise is the Shogun of Japan has died and there are five lords that are trying to hold the country together, not war between themselves, um but there's also The only people who are allowed to deal with the Japanese are the Portuguese, um, thats the Catholic, and they've set up trading with the Japanese and all the other European countries. Like we want a part of this too. And so we open up with this English captain.
00:08:56
Speaker
making his way to Japan in shambles, but he made it and um he's kind of thrust into this. What's the time period set him? Oh, I don't know. It's, um, it's almost like feudal Japan, but they have guns, but not a lot of guns. Um,
00:09:22
Speaker
I don't know. It's got to be around maybe the 1500s, 1600s, something like that. um Because it's when all the European countries were at the top of their their game and they're going out and colonizing and exploring the world. So um I think around that time period.
00:09:40
Speaker
Um, but you're just thrust in this world between kind of rival Japanese houses and and clans and all that. It's really interesting. So, um, it is brutal. It is very gory. ah There's a scene in the first episode where you see a man get boiled alive. So that's fine. Um, no thanks i'm good other than that, it's, it's a really good series. I've been enjoying it. So.
00:10:08
Speaker
There's one on Netflix that I just started that I forgot about. Um, I did want to talk about it, but, uh, the Nick Cage movie, ah over but it's called the three body problem. It just released. Yeah. Have you started that one at all? I haven't, but I didn't know what to expect. I, huh? I think it's, I thought it was a book and then they turned it into a series. Maybe. Oh, interesting. I can see how it would be a good book, but, uh,
00:10:38
Speaker
I didn't really know what to expect, but I'm pleasantly surprised with that one. It's really, really interesting.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yeah, it is a book. It's a Chinese science fiction author view. I don't know what mispronounce that. But anyway, I think it is a book in the turning into a series. So yeah, it's really interesting.
00:11:05
Speaker
I don't know where it's going, but I'm here for it. I like it. I don't even know if I want to go into the plot because I don't understand exactly what's happening. Like I do up to the point, but I don't know like what it's, it's a lot of mystery. So it's got a lot to do with. Nope. I don't even know how to explain it yet. That'd be interesting to to to watch have to watch that one.
Reality TV and Book Discussions
00:11:35
Speaker
We are also watching Love is Blind, which is a reality show. Oh my gosh. And I don't watch a lot of reality television because I think it is stupid. And just mine, Roddy. Yeah.
00:11:57
Speaker
And that's pretty much what this is as well, but it's kind of fun. Well, I watched the first season, which was fun. And then the second season kind of comes over it after the second season. and So I ignored seasons three, four and five. And then all of a sudden everybody is talking about this season, which is six. I was like, okay, I got to check this out. And it was unhinged.
00:12:23
Speaker
It really is. we We watched the first season. We both hated Jessica. umqui Of course. Of course, you have to anyway. Just a mess. And then we were like, okay, we have to watch this the most recent one. So we skipped ahead and we watched. We are watching season six right now and we just got passed.
00:12:45
Speaker
I think the episode where they introduce each other to each other's families. And it's great. It's so messy. It is so messy. and I'm here for it. um And while part of it is a good turn your brain off and just kind of rot and sit there, it sometimes it does bring up good discussion points for for couples and for for Jacqueline. And yeah, because sometimes things aren't black and white and you're like Oh, I agree with this person about reacting this way. And I agree with this person, but so it's so you haven't gotten to the, any of the weddings yet. Nope. I have not. I am dying.
00:13:29
Speaker
Please, please. I won't say anything. Obviously we have our favorite couple. I think right now it's, um, they all have Jane names too. It's, um,
00:13:42
Speaker
that's why It's also toxic. What it is about J names. Yeah. And the Hispanic girl, I can't remember what their names are, but we we like them and we're hoping nothing bad happens to them. And we're enjoying the dumpster fire that is Chelsea and and Jimmy. So yeah,
00:14:09
Speaker
yeah I'm excited. But i'm also I'm also reading The Way of Kings. I've read a decent bit into it. cool um And I was kind of was like doing doing the whole, when you're first reading a new fantasy book, the whole... Yeah, the learning curve. I'm trying to get into it. I'm trying to get into it. And then I got to um the first Bridge Four chapter.
00:14:40
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, the bridge for storyline. The first way we first gets to the camp. Yeah, I was like, oh, yeah. OK. And then I read the ads. And then I get introduced to Caledon and I'm like, oh.
00:14:59
Speaker
Uh-huh. Okay. This is, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I'm getting there. And it's Caledon storyline and bridge four that carries you through to the point that got me and to love, like I liked that and I was like, very cool. But you get to the point that we'll talk about later that it's like, Oh, now I love this.
00:15:22
Speaker
i'm i'm We'll see if we we're on the same um the same wavelength with that. But the Bridge 4 arc is so good. it's so cool so For me,
00:15:38
Speaker
but some of the ways I think about books is the, oh, I can't stop reading this. I can't put it down type of a book. Um, and the book where it's like, Oh yeah, I'll read it. If I, if I feel like it, um, if I have spare time or maybe like right before bed or something like that. Um, we love time started like that. And I was like, Oh, this is interesting. And it quickly became, I have to read this when a friend can. Oh yeah. hundred percent percent And this, this is like, it's, if I have free time, I'm going to read this before I read anything else.
00:16:12
Speaker
um But it's not like I'm going to put my entire life on hold to finish this book. Not yet, yeah at least. Not yet. Not yet. Yeah. yeah See, i'm I'm rereading book three. I know I read it when it first dropped, but I don't remember anything from it. um And that's not the book's fault. That's just my broken brain. So I'm rereading it and it's kind of like the it's kind of like those those books that you have to get through to get to the next one. Because I haven't even gotten to the most recent one in the series, so I'll get there. It's slow. I think it's getting close to releasing, was it? um Book five? Probably.
00:16:56
Speaker
i've got
00:17:01
Speaker
That's number two, that's three that I'm reading. And then Rhythm of War, I think is number four. And then there's like two books that are in between the main books. So I recommend those. I did read Edge Dancer, which comes between, I think, two and three.
00:17:22
Speaker
Um, and then there's another one that I downloaded on audible that I haven't gotten to yet. Cause I need to finish three, do the interim book and then go to four. So yeah, I can do it anyway.
Episode Eight of 'The Haunting of Hill House'
00:17:36
Speaker
That's what we've been reading and watching. So it's now time to get into the episode. Like I said, it was episode eight called witness marks. And before we begin, I want to get a definition of witness marks. Cause I forgot what they were. And obviously we get it.
00:17:52
Speaker
more detailed description of what they are later in the episode. um But according to Google, it's a scratch or similar mark on each portion of an assembly used to determine the previous position or location of its parts. How things were previously implemented, used, repaired, or what process processes were followed. So just something interesting to keep in mind as we go throughout this episode, because I have some notes about um sort of that theme that follows us.
00:18:22
Speaker
Um, but I have a jump scare count of two in this code. I just have the one, just the one big one. Yep. I mean, I think I know where the second one is, but I wouldn't count it. I don't know, but maybe.
00:18:39
Speaker
but well we'll have another discussion. We tend to have disagreements about the jump scares. um Obviously, they're it's hard to judge because this is not the first time we're watching the series, so we can't, I guess, truly gauge if it's a jump scare or not.
00:19:00
Speaker
But anyway, um we start off in the past. Steven and Lee are at a fertility appointment, um trying to understand like what's wrong, like why can't they have kids? What's going on? um Obviously, after finishing the episode, we know now why they are not having kids. But Steve is just kind of disassociating and and not really paying attention. And then he sees this dark figure in the glass that's kind of... The glass is weird. Yeah, frosted glass. So you can't clearly see see what's on the other side. But this figure starts getting closer and closer and it starts to look a little like his mom.
00:19:48
Speaker
Um, I don't, we don't know for sure, but it looks like live. Is she in like a red dress? That's what it looked like. it It was like a darker color. Um, and obviously that connects at the end, but we, we start to see his mom a little bit and then obviously she goes away. Then we go back to the future of the future, the present, and they're trying to track Luke down.
00:20:15
Speaker
Theo said that suicides tend to cluster in families, especially in twins when they lose a twin. Um, but Shirley right now is kind of done with Theo and doesn't want to listen to anything that she has to say and how she keeps putting her down is kind of funny to me. Um, even though it's not that funny, um, ah the I think at one point Theo says something and, and Shirley was like, I didn't ask for your opinion or what you, what you think. Um,
00:20:46
Speaker
But then it's decided that Steve and he were going to go looking for Luke. Steve and initially went to the car by himself and he follows and he's like, I'm coming with you. Um, in the past, Steve wanted to help you with the basement in the house, but he was already using really strong chemicals, including rat poison because it focuses on the rat poison. Um, but he says that Steve can help by watching the other kids since live is going to be going away.
00:21:19
Speaker
Steve makes his way upstairs to try to, I guess, find his mom or talk to his mom or something. As he go upstairs, he passes a clock repair man. And then Steve sees Liv in the twins room and she's just standing there in the, um, in, in the middle of the room saying, of course you are safe with me as if she's like in this sort of trance or whatever. Um, he's able to break her out and she just looks disoriented.
00:21:50
Speaker
Um, back in the present, Hugh asked Steve about his marriage and when, and when that happens, Steve sort of gets spicy about it. who Just a little bit. Um, Hugh tells him that he and Liv were separated at one point right after, um, Steve was born around, around one, I think he said it was one, one when Steve was one. yeah Um, and at one point he just knocked on the door. She,
00:22:19
Speaker
put her arms around him, forgave him with his eyes her eyes. And from then on, he says they fought with love. ah You're on the same team, and even in the middle of the fight. And he says it's something amazing and just too, he wishes Steve was in that. All right, I had experienced that at some point.
00:22:43
Speaker
like I turned my voice back on. I liked that scene. Very much. And even though Steve was like not respondent very well to not responding very well to his dad's push to be involved, I think that fatherly advice was something that Steve needed to hear. I don't remember if it helps in the marriage because I honestly don't remember what happens in their marriage next.
00:23:08
Speaker
I have no idea. But I think that as a father, Hugh like really was like, my son needs to hear my experience too. Even though maybe like getting the details of Steve's marriage wasn't his business, Hugh was like, my son needs to hear this. So I liked that scene.
Witness Marks and Family Dynamics
00:23:30
Speaker
And this is a point I have where it kind of relates thematically to the whole episode of witness marks and everything like that. Yeah, I'm interested on on your your take on that because I didn't think about it like that. Like there's a theme throughout this whole episode of relationships and dynamics and between the sisters and between the father and the son and each of their respective spouses with Shirley and and her husband and
00:24:00
Speaker
all of that. so But I'm interested on your take on on the witness marks. This could be just complete BS and me trying to sound smarter than I am. Probably. I'm just kidding. You're right. you're right ah Considering maybe what Hugh did with his relationship with Liv could be considered a repair mark. um It's something that he did to repair their relationship.
00:24:32
Speaker
yeah And so he's just showing that to Steve and be like, yes this is what happened. This is what worked for us. um yes And obviously not every tool is going to work for the same repair, um, or, or anything like that. There could be different repairs that are needed. Um, but just, I liked that point and there was a, a good outcome for what witness marks could do. Yeah. Rather than the negative connotation it kind of has later on in the episode. Um,
00:25:10
Speaker
No, I think you're spot on with that because if each of the relationships get kind of repaired between Shirley and Theo and between Steve and Hugh and then even his story between Hugh and and and his wife and Liv. Yeah. yeah yeah Her name is Olivia, but we always call her Liv for short. Yeah. Well, that's how they refer to her. yeah I just don't know if my memory is correct, but I think you're correct that there's these reparations going on between each of these dynamics that are featured in this episode, mainly Shirley and Theo later and Steve and Hugh. So I like that.
00:25:51
Speaker
I love the subtext with Stephen Hughes' um arguments and relationship as well, because it goes back always goes back to Stephen Lee or Lay. I think it's Lee. It's Lee. Yeah. But obviously, especially in the their conversation later in the car, the subtext is there with deliver the relationship with his wife. Anyway,
00:26:20
Speaker
Cheryl is watching Kevin take the kids trick-or-treating and he wants to talk, but she says, how will we when you're at the motel or hotel? I don't know. Oh yeah, rude. And I'm like, okay. Sorry. All right. um He's reaching out and she's just cutting him down. I was not. I know that especially after you hurt your spouse or your spouse was hurt by something that you did, there's going to be a period of time where they are just angry and you, you can't really say anything to them at that point to convince them otherwise. Um, sometimes the best course of action is just to let them be angry for a little bit and whenever they're ready. Yeah. Yeah. But still the way that she handled that, yeah, it was really harsh. Like is your,
00:27:14
Speaker
you're married, you know, you have to give your spouse the grace of at least an explanation, I think. But maybe I'm just underestimating how angry she really was.
00:27:27
Speaker
I think she's also, Oh, what's the term when you put all of your guilt and projecting, I think she's projecting as well. Maybe she's using an excuse of, she can be angry at him because she, like he finally did something wrong, or at least in her eyes. like But there are also two really big betrayals in her view, back to back, the money thing and the supposed situation right with her sister and they're in a closet. So obviously she doesn't understand the whole context of them in the closet yet, but two things on top of each other, huge betrayals, even though the second one arguably I don't think was
00:28:14
Speaker
but she doesn't know that. She just knows it's big betrayal, big betrayal. So yeah. Yeah. Um, and then when he's leaving, he says, I love you. And she doesn't say it back. She said something else or she said, have fun, like have fun with the kids or yeah whatever. And he just kind of like ah shakes his head and walks off. Yeah. Um,
00:28:44
Speaker
Then she's trying to fix the house. But she sees all this black stuff on all the pieces. Witness marks. And I don't know if that's any. we' We'll try to relate that later because there's another piece later that I want to talk about. She then hears the doorbell ring, but no one's there because she she had turned off all of her front porch lights off.
00:29:11
Speaker
to make sure, you know, she didn't get any trick or treaters that night, but she still got a door doorbell. Um, but no one was there. I liked her like talking to herself. Cause I do that too.
00:29:26
Speaker
I'll talk out loud to myself when I'm home alone. We're not crazy. We're promise love crazy. Yeah. It's, it's a yeah it's just a normal thing. I I'll do that as well.
00:29:39
Speaker
And especially when I was taking math courses, whenever I was solving problems, I would kind of talk to myself. oh It was just something I did anyway. Yeah, it helps.
00:29:55
Speaker
Back in the car, Steve is getting mad at Hugh because he's the person, he's the one person who should have been there to help live and he wasn't. um And he just brings up the police file about how there was a concussion,
00:30:09
Speaker
ah peruses around her arms or something like that. Like someone slammed her against a wall. Um, basically insinuating that Hugh did something to hurt her. Um, and he was, I think at the very least he's upset that that he left her. Yeah. That he didn't, that he didn't do anything to, to help that he wasn't there when yeah with the person who needs him the most was there.
00:30:39
Speaker
really high and mighty for Steve to have that position when he didn't see anything happen. And he was a little kid when it happened. But really you right now isn't really trying to defend himself. He's really not saying anything, anything back. Um, and we'll get into that later. There's a reason why he's not. Um, then we go back to the past and young Steve,
00:31:03
Speaker
sees a vanity from the gaming room and he wants to fix it up. The gaming room. Mrs.
00:31:16
Speaker
mrs Dudley says it belonged to Poppy, who was William's wife. Both of them were insane. They met in an in insane asylum um and he got married, I guess. um But that's pretty much as much information as we get from Poppy, just says that just that she was crazy.
00:31:38
Speaker
um Young Steve starts painting the vanity in the gaming room. but there's all this black stuff that's all over the bottom of it. Um, and it kind of looks like the black stuff on the dream house, the forever house, but it also kind of looks like mold. It does look like mold. I sort of took it as corruption, like the, um,
00:32:09
Speaker
Hmm. I don't want to really want to say too much because it relates to stuff that we find out at the end. Um, but just some of this badness that's coming from the house is just corrupting everything and and making its way into people's lives. And especially when we, especially the dream house, Shirley's dream house, um, it, it's all this black stuff that was on it and how their previous dream house was kind of ruined. um Or I guess the, or Hill House was ruined because all of this black molds and all of this, um I guess, corruption, you could call it. Now, Shirley's house is now starting to feel effects of it. Yeah.
00:32:59
Speaker
I just think about the past coming up again and it keeps affecting these people's lives and and totally address it and move on. Then they can't escape it sort of thing.
00:33:15
Speaker
But you guys can tell me how crazy I am and how stupid I sound. you tell if you like that um Not at all. I know there's something there. I just can't articulate what I think or pinpoint it. I think you touched on something when you said when they finally addressed things because they spent all of their adult years, avoiding each other to a point, avoiding the topic. They don't talk about it. They don't resolve anything. And so now everything's coming. All the crazy things and all the trauma they went through, they don't talk about it. They don't even talk to their dad anymore. And now it's all like forcing them to confront it as it comes to a head.
00:34:04
Speaker
so
00:34:07
Speaker
um Anyway, we go back to the present and Cheryl threw away all the pieces and keeps hearing knocks and doorbells um all over the house. And at one point she opens the door and then closes it and looks over and she sees the man with the glass sitting there at the couch.
00:34:25
Speaker
um what Yeah, he didn't see that. Did I miss that?
Supernatural Interruptions and Family Secrets
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, he was there in her house. yeah He appeared and did the whole like cheers thing. I did not see that.
00:34:44
Speaker
Interesting. Interesting. After several of this, uh, these occurrences, Cheryl runs outside to yell at the kids that she thinks are doing this. And as she's yelling, um, like go away or, um, don't even come back here or something like that. Theo's behind her and is like, what the heck is going on, dude? Are you okay? Um, and Theo's like, I just wanted it come to apologize.
00:35:13
Speaker
She really doesn't say anything and just walks back in the house and Theo follows her. Theo at this point. tro is trying to apologize to Shirley. She's trying to tell her story and her side of things and what happened and and says it wasn't Kevin's fault and they didn't even kiss and everything like that. But Shirley just isn't taking any of it. but She says, don't you defend my husband. Theo says Shirley loves acting like she's so perfect and and but all the family just helps her.
00:35:46
Speaker
think that she's perfect because everyone else keeps screwing up and messing up and all that stuff and just keeps propping Shirley up more. um
00:35:56
Speaker
And at one point surely calls Theo the S word. I don't, I don't even want to say it. I don't even consider it no a curse word, but it's just nasty. Um, anyway, the argument gets interrupted by all this pounding at the door, of the doorbell and on the windows. And there's nobody there at all, just like how it happened when they were kids.
00:36:22
Speaker
So it's it's really interesting, this the theme of their past is coming up to haunt them again, the witness marks, um this previous damage, I guess. Sorry, I'm trying to watch the part where you see the person on the couch. Oh yeah.
00:36:52
Speaker
OK, she's back in the house. Oh.
00:37:00
Speaker
Is that her brother? No, it's we found out we find out later what it it really is, but it's the guy who's been appearing the entire throughout the entire. um Yeah, I did see that. I don't know why I just completely forgot about it, but I did see that because I don't know. I was expecting it to be like creepier.
00:37:22
Speaker
You know, it was just, yeah, it's just yeah the whole cheers guy. Yeah.
00:37:33
Speaker
Um, anyway, um, there's no one at the door in the windows that are pound being pounded on. Um, but it just happens. Yeah. It happened. Like it happened back at the house. Um,
00:37:54
Speaker
they find out they get a call in the middle of it after it all ends. And they find out that Luke used the credit card at a gas station. Cause previously like Steve was just saying, Oh, he's probably using it to get drugs or something. Cause he doesn't trust his brother. Um,
00:38:13
Speaker
and then in the car, Shirley told
00:38:18
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry. I missed a piece. Shirley is in denial about everything that happened and she's like trying to ignore it and feels like that happened. You have to admit that it happened. um And that's not the only thing that happened. You have to admit all of this stuff all of our lives. What's been going on?
00:38:37
Speaker
And she really doesn't really respond to that. But back in the car, Steve is just going on in his usual rant about how the whole family is sick and crazy. And that's why he isn't having kids and that it devolves into that conversation. Um, and he confesses to you that he got a vasectomy right out of college and he didn't tell Ali at all.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, um even when she wanted kids. And so all this stuff was happening with their fertility problems and everything. And it was Lee was thinking, oh, maybe it's my fault. But it was really him and he just didn't tell her at all.
00:39:18
Speaker
um
00:39:21
Speaker
Steve says craziness killed two of and on their family already, and it might kill a third tonight.
00:39:31
Speaker
go foreshadowing. um And then young Steve, we go back to the past and young Steve gives the vanity to live. She loves it. um it's It's really cute. It's got like pictures of all the kids and all the family around it. But then she just gets this face, like her face goes blank for a second. And then she just punches the mirror, breaking it.
00:39:53
Speaker
um
00:39:56
Speaker
showing how crazy she is, I guess, in quotations since the audience can't hear it. Yeah, wonderfully, we find out what she's, what she saw because it looks like she saw something in the mirror. So I remember that I think next episode we get a little more clarity, but it still was confusing to me when I watched it. Cause we haven't gotten anything from her side, from her point of view yet. So not at all. I think a lot of things get answered when we do.
00:40:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:30
Speaker
um Back in the present, he was at the gas station and finds out that Luke filled up five gas cans and they realized that he is going to try to burn down the house, the old house.
00:40:46
Speaker
Back in the car, house on Hugh to tell tell Steve about the house, but Steve immediately goes and says, you didn't listen to me. And then Hugh, for the first time, kind of stands back up to Steve and he's like, yes, I did, but now you are going to listen to me.
00:41:07
Speaker
Our family is like an unfinished meal to that house. And now Luke is going back. And then he continues to say that Steve is probably the last person who should step foot in the house because of what he wrote and how he wrote it. He says Steve saw a ghost, but didn't realize it. It was the man repairing the clock.
00:41:28
Speaker
In the first scene where we see the man with the clock, did you realize that that was an apparition? I don't remember if I did the very... The first time? No. I don't know if I did the first time, but this time I was like, I think that's a ghost. And my husband was like, yeah, I think so too. I was like, he's wearing old timey clothes.
00:41:50
Speaker
i didn't I guess I didn't pick that out whenever I watched it for the first time and even watching it multiple times after that. I didn't i knew it was a ghost but not based off of his clothing or what he was wearing or even maybe what he looked like. Because the clothing where was was pretty out of place. i just I guess I wasn't paying attention to it well enough.
00:42:14
Speaker
Then Hugh goes on to define witness marks describing the clock. Anti-clocks never have a pay records, so you have to read the witness marks to understand how it was meant to function. um It tells the story of a piece. Hugh had a professional look at the clock. um Oh, what did I write?
00:42:40
Speaker
And it hadn't been touched since the sixties. He reveals that he never hired hired a clock repair man. He never built the other things going on in the house. He wouldn't be like, Hey, can he come fix my clock?
00:42:55
Speaker
Yeah. Um, he never built them a tree house, even though Steve tries to stop, uh, tries to say, but it was Luke's tree house. He was in it all the time. All these marks are, are there, but Steve doesn't know how to read them. Yep.
00:43:15
Speaker
But I would love to get your thoughts on what you think. how How do you think that relates to Steve probably being the last person who should go to the house? Like he would be in the most. He's in such denial that he's pretty vulnerable to the dangers of the house was my take like because he's refusing to acknowledge anything. How would he be prepared to deal with anything?
00:43:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like if he's, if he goes back to the house, he's in a trap. He doesn't even know he's in. Right. and Okay. Okay. That makes sense. Like he doesn't even know the the house is trying to kill him and it's just slowly stalking towards him. I guess when, um,
00:44:07
Speaker
what's the youngest, what's her name? I'm sorry. No. Yeah. When Nell goes, she's vulnerable. She's in a very vulnerable state. And when Luke goes, he's also in a very vulnerable state. So I think they were both susceptible to the dangers there. Um, and their mother live, wasn't doing well with her migraines and hallucinations, whether it was caused by the house or not. She was, she was in a pretty vulnerable state too. And so I think maybe Steve's, uh,
00:44:45
Speaker
vulnerability just comes from his denial. Okay. That makes sense. I like that. And, um, Hugh kind of saw what was happening in the house, you know, but I don't know why he was less susceptible to the, to the effects of it. Like, like Liv wasn't, but, um, We might get more answers in the next episode, because I know. Yeah, I think so. That's going to have a lot to do with it. But I think you just have to be like prepared to to go in there and deal with what actually is. Yeah. Yeah. um I liked Hugh's definition of what witness marks are. And it was just understanding.
00:45:41
Speaker
One of it was to understand how it was meant to function. And if we go back and think about all the black pieces that we saw, um is that saying that the house was meant to function as this evil spirit?
00:45:59
Speaker
Is it the house? Is it evil? as a evil and so i'm offerring i'm just bringing that up no i I like it. They're good questions, but it's it's always this question of like, it's being portrayed as this evil entity. So far, we don't have any other evidence to suggest that it's not.
00:46:20
Speaker
And that's just something I want to bring up for when we finally get to the last episode and we can have all the answers or at least most of them there. And then we can hopefully discuss and, but just, just to put something else in your mind and be like, Oh, it's the house is being portrayed as evil. Um, why, you know, um, anyway,
00:46:48
Speaker
Um, back with Theo and Shirley, they ignore Hugh and they decide to drive to the house and Theo says, Hey, can I tell my side of the story? And surely he's like, I guess, go ahead. I'm listening. I'm listening.
00:47:07
Speaker
Um, Theo tries to start telling Shirley that hers to her side of the story, but then surely just doesn't decides not to listen and continues to fight and argue with her. Um, and it gets to a point where they're just yelling at each other back and forth. No one is listening to anything. The other one is that has to say,
00:47:33
Speaker
And then Nell in her sort of dead appearance just reaches her head from the toilet, like and between them and just screams. Yeah. And it causes them to swerve off the road, feel bolts out of the door and just start sobbing on the ground. Now, the first time you saw this episode, how did you react?
00:48:03
Speaker
I'm sorry, I don't remember. I'm pretty sure I i jumped because that's like gotta to be the biggest jump scare in existence.
00:48:13
Speaker
It is such a good one. It is an amazing jump scare. And I then forgot about it because somebody was talking about it online and I was like, what are they talking about? So I went back to that episode and I watched it. I was like, oh yeah.
00:48:27
Speaker
okay But this time, i even though I knew it was coming, I kind of forgot it was coming because you're so wrapped up in their argument. It was a good jump scare. It was good. and it got i I rewatched the episode this morning and I think it got me more this time than it did when I watched it like a week ago.
00:48:51
Speaker
But it was like her telling her sisters to stop fighting. Yeah. I love that. It's just this frustrated like, ah, just stop. Shut up. Acknowledge what's going on. Stop fighting. And like, let's work together is kind of what I think Nell was trying to do. I just think it's a cool, not only for the jump scare itself, but it kind of hints that you know, family members are always with you. That will say whenever we say other, they'll always be with you. I think that's sort of what this was saying as well, is Nell has been with them the entire time. I don't know if that was correct, the house to try to get them together. um I don't know. That is one thing I have unanswered is why that happened.
00:49:49
Speaker
I don't know, because we don't even know what that apparition was on the ground after the forever home broke. Like, who was that? Yeah. And who was doing the knocking and the pounding? I think it was coming across like, here's something so obvious, you have to acknowledge it. You can't ignore it. Stop ignoring it. Yeah. Now, who it was, I don't know.
00:50:16
Speaker
But I think that's what the point of it was, was so they can that Shirley would just stop ignoring what was obvious. like The denial was very real.
00:50:29
Speaker
But after after that jump scare, that that is the first jump scare that I have for the episode. um Oh, OK. I didn't know if you were counting the knocking. Any of the knocking is no scares because I didn't come to me clearly was not OK. I know what the second one is now. OK, go ahead. Yeah. um After that one, Theo basically falls out of the car onto the ground and she keeps saying to Shirley, that was her. That was her.
00:50:59
Speaker
Do you believe it now, Shirley? And she's just she's trying to bring it to make admit it, that everything that's been happening is is real, it's reality.
Theo's Confession and Luke's Confrontation
00:51:13
Speaker
That was now. um And she finally is able to go into her story of what happened. And she says that she she felt Now that that night, she touched now when she was on the table and Shirley tries to deny um that she knows what Theo can do and and Theo's like, don't don't you try to pretend like you don't know what i what I can do. You know what I can do. What happens when I touch things.
00:51:43
Speaker
And I touched her, I touched now, and I just felt nothing. And then nothing flowed throughout her entire body. And that's why she was drinking a lot. She was just trying to fill herself up. um And she had called over her her booty calling and just touched her and tried to feel something, but she felt nothing.
00:52:03
Speaker
And it terrified her more than anything when the lights were off because she was just floating in an ocean of nothingness. um And she was terrified that that's what death was like. And is that what happens? is Are we just floating in a sea of nothing and just feeling nothing?
00:52:23
Speaker
So scary yeah of And that's why she was just she was it just breaks her down. She's crying um And it makes sense that when she When Kevin comes he was just this bright light, you know and but she keeps saying I didn't see him I didn't see him. It was just this bright light this life preserver in the ocean just something to cling on to and so she reached for him and when the lights came on and Um, she was there like trying to kiss him or, or, or something. She was reaching for him, reaching for him. And he was interpreting it. Maybe that ah she was trying to, to come on to him. And so he kind of like pushes her back and says, no, he says, no. And the lights come on. And then she sees him. Um, yeah. and yeah when she's saying I didn't see him. I think she was trying to say, I didn't see that it was him.
00:53:24
Speaker
i I think so, but also I think she was trying to stress the importance of that to her, Kevin, even if she didn't know it was Kevin, was this thing that could save her from this nothingness. And she yeah right desperately was clinging to him.
00:53:50
Speaker
and But then that's when Shirley came in and and everything happened. But then after that, she felt everything. she It all came back. And she says the shame and the guilt and the fear of losing another sister was better than feeling nothing at all. So she's sorry, but she's not really. she's Sorry, not sorry. Yeah. She really doesn't really say anything, but just offers a hand to Theo and they walk back to the car together.
00:54:20
Speaker
I was like, your sister just poured out her soul to you and you don't have anything to say to her right now. Okay. I don't know what you could say, honestly.
00:54:31
Speaker
but um I don't want to get too heavy, but anybody that's gone through like a major depressive disorder episode or chronic condition, that's what it feels like. You don't feel sad. You feel nothing. You feel empty. And that's what's so bad about it is that you do start reaching out to other things to feel something. And so that resonated with me.
00:55:03
Speaker
big time. I was like, yeah yeah, that is the worst thing ever to have, to feel, you don't feel numb because numb is like covering up things. It's just nothing. Exactly how she described you there. It's, it's not, I don't know how to, how to say it any better than what she said, but that's, um, that's what it's like. And so that desperation to feel something, even if it's the most negative emotions is better than that. Nothing.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that that. That was better than what I could have said. Well, it's just something that you don't understand until you are in it. Yeah.
00:55:47
Speaker
it' yeah It's not that just immense sadness, you know? No, it's not. I mean, it can be. It could be periods of sadness. That is part of it, but it's the the worst of it is the nothing.
00:56:03
Speaker
It's just a, it's, it's like a void. It's just, it's, I and don't want to get too heavy into it, but that's what she describes is exactly like that. So, um, yeah.
00:56:21
Speaker
And there is help. So if you're feeling that now. you can get help and there's another side to it. There's the other side. It doesn't last forever. So just as Theo says, like even she came out on the other side and even though she was feeling some negative emotions, at least she was feeling something and she was happy and she wouldn't, she doesn't regret it at all. Right. So, um, preferably don't,
00:56:57
Speaker
try to sleep with another family member, spousal member, but you know, go to a doctor.
00:57:10
Speaker
Yeah. Go to a doctor, please. They can help way better. Anyway, um, back to the show. Uh, Luke gets to the house.
00:57:22
Speaker
And just like it with now, all the lights turn on. I didn't think they were going to and that it it took a little bit. And then they finally turned on and I was like nuts.
00:57:35
Speaker
but oh on that So he goes inside and he starts pouring gas everywhere. um um I forgot what happens at this point. um And he turns on the lighter. And I didn't think that he was going to actually drop it. I thought the thing was going to happen before he could drop it. But he actually does drop the lighter and the gasoline starts to ignite and then it just goes out.
00:58:05
Speaker
And you're like, oh crap, what's going on? And then we see Liv in a red dress standing at the top of the stairs um of this just totally decrepit house. There's vines everywhere.
00:58:20
Speaker
um And then it cuts back to Luke. And there's this dead lady right behind him. And she just grabs his face and then faded. Oh, the end. I counted that as a jump scare, but you don't have to i agree with me. No, I do. Okay. that was That was a pretty good jump scare. Yeah. That is the end of the episode. Good episode.
00:58:52
Speaker
Oh, it was a really good episode. This might be one of my favorites now. Yeah. heart wear yeah too I like exploring the dynamics that happened in this episode between Hugh and Steve and between Shirley and Theo, but the one scene with Shirley and Theo and there's the pounding all around. That was like the most intense scene, I think in all episode.
00:59:21
Speaker
Yeah, it was really good. The tension and it was scary.
00:59:27
Speaker
It really was. i Yeah. Yeah. I loved, I think my favorite part was the conversation between you and Steve when Hugh flips it and he's like, no, I i heard you. I listened. Now you're going to listen to me. Yeah.
00:59:45
Speaker
And I just, I love that whole thing. um And I love thematically this episode. I thought it fit pretty well with everything. um Even if I can't specifically pinpoint it and describe in in words how I feel like it connects, it just connects with me. Yeah. You have any more thoughts?
01:00:11
Speaker
Nope. I think we said all that and needed it to be said unless you have any other favorite moments or notables. That's jump scare. That's such a good jump scare. And I think it might be the one of the best ones in the, in the series. Um, not only the series, but I would say like most other movies and TV shows. Oh, for sure. For sure. Because it's the top three jump scares of ever.
01:00:38
Speaker
No, because it's not just a jump a jump scare for for horror's sake, really jump scare's sake, just to like frighten you and that's it. you know Give you a yeah jolt of adrenaline and it has a purpose. a lot of in In a lot of generic horror and scary movies, you know when it's coming because I kind of build the tension. It's quiet,
01:01:00
Speaker
you're waiting for it. And that also works because like you're on the edge of your seat and you're waiting for it. And then it happens and it still gets you. This one, you don't see it coming at all. It's really good. It's so much more effective. But it's not my favorite in the series. or Obviously, this season, yes, it's probably my favorite. But the flannel verse,
01:01:27
Speaker
I have a favorite one and it's not in this one. It's in Midnight Mass. It's in Midnight Mass. I have a fun story that goes along with it. Oh, I can't wait. We've got some time.
01:01:40
Speaker
I can't believe we're almost done. We have two more episodes left. We have, oh shoot, I forgot the name of the next episode. That always happens to me. I think it's the screaming Mimi's. I believe that's the next episode. hu
01:02:01
Speaker
um And I remember enjoying that episode and then we have Silence Lay lay Steadily, which is the last episode yeah of The Haunting of Hill House. I am so excited. Before we end this episode, Laura, yeah do we have any this week?
01:02:25
Speaker
um you know he
01:02:29
Speaker
was so into the plot line, the only things that Corey said, we're talking about Corey's comments. Corey's comments. Corey's comments. The only thing he he said was some harsh names towards Shirley. yeah to How she spoke to her husband. And I repeat them, because I'm a lady. I can.
01:02:55
Speaker
We're trying not to swear on the show. Bad lady. ah
01:03:01
Speaker
She's being a real meanie. A witch.
01:03:08
Speaker
Did he, how did he react to the jump scare? I don't remember. I'm so sorry. It's, it's been, it's been a week. I think it's even, it's, I think it's even been two weeks since we watched it. Cause we were out of town um last week. So I'm so sorry. He probably, no, it's okay. Yeah.
01:03:31
Speaker
I'm sure it got him. I just don't think he said anything. Yeah. Anyway, stay tuned for some more Corey's comments. Yeah, hopefully we'll get some good ones. Cause he'll probably be watching Haunting a Blind Manner with us too, so. Okay, good. He'll have lots in that one because it's not, that show is not as intense. No, it's not. It's not as serious. It's spooky and it's a good show, but it's not as intense as this one, so.
01:04:11
Speaker
All right. i don't tell I don't know if he'll watch Midnight Mass with me. He's like, that's not really my thing. You should make him watch it anyway. It's so good. I probably will. He's he's a good sport like that. so And it's got some really good scares in it. There's some mystery. You don't know what's going on.
01:04:32
Speaker
So anyway, with that being said, are you excited? Yep. Go ahead. I'm very excited. I'm very excited. What were you saying? I'm excited for what? um Well, if we you know keep taking turns on you know who's doing the breakdowns, you are up for midnight mass. Am I smart enough for that? but I'm okay with it. Are you smart enough for it? You're smart enough to do a recap. Goodness.
01:05:03
Speaker
Well, I know you have um ah a lot to say um and some good pointers and everything, um probably about some stuff that I miss. We'll see. i'll I'll try to take some notes. I'm just kind of coasting along this season, so I'm just phoning it in here. Well, there it I also don't feel like it's as much that's in Midnight Mass, you know, because I feel like Midnight Mass is just packed with stuff.
01:05:30
Speaker
It's very layered. There's a lot of stuff that happens that's not obvious until you watch it the second time. Because it the first time is like, wait, what? And then the second time it's like, oh. And so this will probably be my third or fourth rewatch. Because I know I've watched it at least twice. I just can't remember if I've watched it a third time. I've i've seen it twice. i will have to this This will be my third watch through. Yeah. It'll be interesting.
01:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of things you figure out the second and third time, so it's exciting. Very, very. Yes. With that being said, remember to drink water and not just water, some electrolytes, find a good mix or something, or just put salt in your water. Gatorade is like... Just put salt in your water. Yeah, that's what I do. I got some pink Himalayan, not just table salt, I have some pink Himalayan that I'll put in my water and just mix it up. it tastes awful and it's disgusting, but it's good for you. and i'll put like you know This isn't sponsored or anything, just go get some liquid IV. That stuff is so good. I take the um the liquid IV energy and then I mix in this like liquid collagen. It tastes so good. It's like juice.
01:06:51
Speaker
It also has got a lot of sugar in it. So if you're okay with that. Hey now.
01:06:58
Speaker
Just don't do Gatorade please. Gatorade has and way more anyway. With that being said, water and electrolytes. And if you're having a bad day, hopefully that helps. If that doesn't get some sun light. If you have a bad day, have a little bit of sugar, have a little bit of sun light. Yeah. Yeah. Sugar, you know. Yeah. Get that candy bar. This advice is starting to go downhill real quick so I think we'll end it. Okay. Thanks everybody. Appreciate you. Bye. Bye.