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Season 2 Wrap Up of The Haunting of Hill House!
23 Plays6 months ago
This is so bittersweet as we say farewell to our discussions of the masterpiece that is The Haunting of Hill House! We also talk about the amazing classic novel by Shirley Jackson, and the absolute insult that is the 1999 movie titled The Haunting. Many thanks to those of you who have continued to follow along, we love you all!
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Transcript
Introduction and Series Closure
00:00:02
Speaker
It's time for House on the Hill. What? It's haunted. Do you mean the haunting of a hill house? Exactly. Let's go.
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome back everyone to Fans of Fland again. I'm Noah. I'm Laura. And we are finishing it off.
Background Noise and Adaptations Discussion
00:01:04
Speaker
We are finishing off Haunting of Hill House. I am sad, but excited to move on because I i just really liked this series. um say So it'd be fun.
00:01:17
Speaker
um Also, I know about the chirping in the background, so please don't make fun of me in the comments or anything like that. I know how it must seem. We're going to try our best to ignore it.
00:01:32
Speaker
But before we get into the actual episode, um which today we are we're talking about the book that was written by Shirley Jackson and then the 1999 version of the movie. um Laura, what have you been watching lately? Well, I watched that movie last night and after watching it, I'm sad we didn't watch the one that was made earlier in the 60s, I think.
00:01:57
Speaker
a that It's been a hot minute since we've actually recorded our last episode. We've you know just kind of been living summer lazy days and like you've moved and just life. I had a whole bunch of things going on. Yeah. Yeah. And I had to read, you know we both had to read the book. so It wasn't a very long book. No. It felt like it. Yeah. Well, it's just actually sitting down and reading, finding that time was yeah ah not very easy. But
00:02:33
Speaker
Uh, some of the things that I wanted to mention that I've been watching that I've been holding on for months.
Movie Experiences and Reviews
00:02:41
Speaker
Um, the first it was so weird. There were a lot of videos being made about this movie called good boy. And it was the weirdest, it wasn't, it's supposed to be like a thriller supposed to be scary. It wasn't scary. It was just weird. Um,
00:03:03
Speaker
and spoilers. So if you want to watch it, skip ahead because I'm about to ruin it for you. Yeah, based off of the a movie poster, I don't think I'll watch it. it really was It's free on 2B so I think that tells you as much as you need to know about the movie.
00:03:22
Speaker
I watched it through Amazon Prime video with probably with one of the add-ons. If it's not on Prime, then it's on one of our add-ons that we subscribe to through that. But it it's about this.
00:03:36
Speaker
Sorry.
00:03:40
Speaker
There's a girl, there's a woman who meets a very rich man. They kind of start dating, they hit it off really fast. And she goes over to his place, a very nice place. And he's very charming. And he has a dog, but the dog is a guy in a dog costume.
00:04:00
Speaker
You can laugh out loud, it's okay.
00:04:05
Speaker
I keep forgetting that it's still cool to make fun of furries in today's ages. Yeah, this i this isn't even part of the furry community. Yeah.
00:04:17
Speaker
um
00:04:20
Speaker
It's been a while since I watched it and I'm trying to process. hu so you know he She's caught off guard because there's a guy in a dog suit on all fours acting like a dog and the the the man is treating him just like a dog. and Even like the entrance of the movie is him preparing a meal for himself and preparing a meal for his dog. um To give you the very shortened version,
00:04:49
Speaker
the are hanging out and she agrees, okay, I'll just go along with this. you know If this is their situation or whatever, you know who am I to judge? And she starts treating him like a dog. Well, the man steps away for a minute and the guy in the dog suit is like, you gotta help me, this guy's a psycho. And she's like, what?
00:05:17
Speaker
So you're like, wait, what?
00:05:22
Speaker
and they end up going away for the weekend and she I'm skipping over a lot, a lot of things, but basically she's like, let me take him for a walk. And he's like, okay. So she takes him for a walk there. They, they decide to go away for like a weekend to like a cabin in the woods type of situation. And she's like asking like, how can I help you? What can we do? And so they try to come up with this escape plan. Uh, but as it turns out, the, the man has like a recording device on the collar of the dog.
00:05:59
Speaker
and So basically plans are foiled and ah she gets kidnapped too. And then she becomes a dog. Of course, of course. And so it skips to, a yeah, I was like, that is the most lazy twist, but okay. So basically he has to like psychologically break her. They skip forward a year and she's living in the barn in a kennel and just going along with what he says because I think she's broken. ah But then at the very end, there's a shot of a toddler in the house
TV Shows and Kaiju Movies
00:06:37
Speaker
and he starts, he it is alluding that he's training the toddler to be a dog also.
00:06:45
Speaker
So that's good boy. So was there a point to that movie? No.
00:06:54
Speaker
so Not at all. That was that was the whole movie, essentially. ah Without all the filler, it was well done, like for what it was. But I was like, that was kind of a lazy time.
00:07:11
Speaker
It has a 5.7 out of 10 on IMDb and a 94 on Rotten Tomatoes. I never trust Rotten Tomatoes, honestly. No, IMDB seems to to me to be a little more accurate, but what else did I watch? I've been watching this show. The first two seasons are on Netflix. It's called Evil. I thought i thought it was like a detective show because it's got the guy that plays Ben on Lost.
00:07:43
Speaker
in there. He's like on the cover. And I was like, Oh, it's like a detective show, kind of like criminal minds or whatever the one with, um, what's his, nevermind. Um, but it's not, it's about like demons and the Catholic church and literally good versus evil.
00:08:06
Speaker
And the the first few episodes had me so unsettled, i I turned it off and turned on The Witcher to feel better.
00:08:16
Speaker
You decided to watch The Witcher to make me feel good. To make me feel better because I was so creeped out. That's funny. But that show was That show, it's it's on season four. You can catch it on Paramount+. plus And it's still going. Season four still has episodes coming out. um It's an entertaining show. It's different. It's not conventional at all. It kind of sets it up as like an episodic, you know, there's like a point to each episode, ah but there's not always a resolution. They just kind of move on. So how they have it done is very different. And then there's like some of the other characters that they focus on and some of the episodes will
00:09:07
Speaker
the whole format of the show will end up different. So I kind of like that. um It's not conventional at all. It is creepy. It does deal with religion. And like I said, demons, like the whole focus of the show is like vanquishing not vanquishing, but like you know ah exploring like exorcisms and psychology and demons. It's hard to explain, but it's an interesting show.
00:09:35
Speaker
so That's one I've been watching recently.
00:09:42
Speaker
And let me just make sure there's anything else. Hold on. My cat's causing problems outside. Are you watching?
00:09:53
Speaker
I have watched a lot because it has been a while um since we have recorded. So I watched ah watched a lot of stuff. um So I I'll try to mention some notable ones because there are stuff on here that we could ignore like the none too. um But some other ones I want to mention is Godzilla minus one. It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, it's really good.
00:10:21
Speaker
ah long legs I saw it and I don't know how I feel about it I'm gonna have to go and watch it again probably um twisters was fun I had fun with twisters and Deadpool and Wolverine was also a fun time now into two films I want to talk about. The first one is the is just, it's just called apostle. It's on Netflix. And the description is in 1905, a drifter on a dangerous mission to rescue his sister, um, tangles with a sinister religious cult on an isolated Island. o Um, I didn't pay attention through this in entire movie because it was just one of those ones where I had come back from working late at night.
00:11:06
Speaker
And I'm not quite quite ready to go to sleep yet. And so I just want to put something on in the background while I kind of scroll through my phone or whatever. um It seems very interesting and sort of on the on a line of stuff that you might find interesting as well. I don't know if you'll like it. Yeah. okay So maybe. um It is on Netflix. From what I saw, it was weird, but not in like a, like a typical, um, horror, like mainstream horror movie kind of thing. You know, I mean, you know, I like weird. So yeah, the only name that I really recognized in this movie was Michael Sheen. I think that's who it was. Yeah.
00:11:56
Speaker
Um, I, I really like him by the way, he's, he's fun to watch in anything that I see him in. Um, but he's in this movie. And then the other one that I wanted to talk about. is called The Void. um Made back in 2016. I don't remember where I saw it. maybe Either maybe Hulu or Peacock. I want to say Peacock is where I saw it. It's an Eldridge, Lovecraftian sort of horror movie. um That kind of ah kind of feel, I guess.
00:12:32
Speaker
these group of people are stranded inside a hospital while there are um like cultists that kind of trap them inside and then they're stuck with this monster inside the hospital as well. It's um very weird. And if you don't like Lovecraftian Eldridge, like
00:12:58
Speaker
horror, monster, beast, whatever, um then stay away from this because this is not going to be your type of movie. It leans very heavily into that side of film. um So I particularly didn't, I didn't really like it. um It wasn't for me. um It gets very Monster gory and like oh monster goop and stuff towards the end as I just ah not just really Think think of um Was it stranger things whenever they're inside the upside down the melted people but think finger these Kind of imagery but times it by ten. Yeah, maybe a hundred gotcha.
00:13:45
Speaker
So again, if you're not into that kind of stuff, don't watch it. Yeah. Um, cause I'm not, and I did anyway, was it my movie. I did not enjoy it. But know it is. Yeah. No, go ahead. Finish. No, I was just gonna say it's, you will like it if you're into that kind of thing. i'm I'm not really, unless it has like a story good enough to counterbalance it. Um, other than that, it's not worth it. If it's not worth it,
00:14:16
Speaker
I'm looking through my Netflix, like what are you watching and like watch again lists. And I come across this section that says dysfunctional family TV dramas. And number two on the list is Haunting of Hill House. It's like, yeah. oh Speaking of Godzilla, because you said Godzilla minus one, my son is nine and he is obsessed with Godzilla and all the kaiju movies. um He loves Pacific Rim. He loves Godzilla. He's been on a Godzilla kick for like 10 months now.
00:14:52
Speaker
So he watched most of Godzilla minus one, but I think he kind of got bored because I see that we didn't finish it. But I ordered Shin Godzilla from on disc because I couldn't find anywhere to watch it. And it was it wasn't that expensive to order the disc. Plus I love collecting hard copies of things anyway. And if you have not seen that,
00:15:14
Speaker
Shin Godzilla. Figure Shin Godzilla. It won awards when it came out, I think 2016, but it takes all the elements from the original Godzilla movie and it's in this modern adaptation, but how they did it was so cool. It wasn't cheap. It wasn't campy. It wasn't, uh, I don't know how to, what the word is I'm thinking of, but how they did it was so good. Like sometimes Godzilla looks a little like, um,
00:15:52
Speaker
like the original, right? So you would think graphics aren't as good or whatever. But they just took that and ran with it. And it was so it's more about like the political goings on like what would happen if all of a sudden there's this giant monster ravaging your city. And so they talk a lot about the Americans. And then they have a lot of like the the the politics going on in in Japan, you know how to deal with the situation. But it was just done so well. And then Godzilla does like the stages, like these evolutionary stages that it goes through. And then how it ends, I'm not going to say it. but when you watch i I was like, that was the best ending to a monster movie I've ever seen. You would love it. You would love it. Okay. I'll give it a try. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:42
Speaker
because i really I really do enjoy um the first of the newer Godzilla movies. I think it came out in like what, 2014 or something. I really enjoyed that. And I know it didn't have like the best reception, but I just, I don't know. I really dug it. So mean I think I'll think I'll like this one as well.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, I highly recommend it it.
Books and Reading Habits
00:17:08
Speaker
It's such a good movie. And I don't even, you know, I'm not even like that much into that kind of a disaster kaiju kind of a movie. Like when I watched Pacific Rim, it was well done, but I laughed. You know, but I don't know Shin Godzilla, they kind of like lean into the over the topness, but they put it in like such a real situation and the reactions are accurate. I feel like So it was fun. My son ended up watching it like three times in a weekend, so he liked it too.
00:17:46
Speaker
um The only other thing that I've been watching is House of Dragon season two. um It's now over and I'm very sad and I have to wait probably two more years until the next one. Probably.
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah. um Which by that time, I probably will just have read the books. So I'll know what happens. But I've been enjoying it. I really liked the season. There was a couple weird moments, but overall, I enjoyed it. I liked it.
00:18:15
Speaker
um And yeah, I'll probably read the prequels because I think he's finished with all those rights. And he could just finish the original series. I mean, I don't think I'm going to get back into reading them, but like,
00:18:32
Speaker
there was a tweet or something about plans that he has for like four different other shows. Like some of them were animated. I remember quoting that tweet and saying, just finish the series, George, just finish it. Cause then I will read it. I will go and read it.
00:18:55
Speaker
But I can't because I've been tainted by the ending of Game of Thrones, the TV show. It might get some like resolution. It might give you closure. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not going to read it. I just don't like reading stuff that doesn't have a conclusion and there is no hope for one on site because I i can't do that. I need a, I need a finality. yeah It's different. It's different with the Stormlight Archive because he is continuously writing them and he's actually working on it and he puts out, it puts books out. But yeah people like George RR Martin. Yeah. And Patrick Rothfuss. Oh my gosh. Somebody asked Stephen King. I won't read them.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'm with you. Like there are shows that I won't recommend because they get canceled or the ending is done. Like even if the rest of it is really good, if the ending sucks or they cancel it before any sort of resolution, I don't recommend it because I'm like, then what's the point? But somebody had asked Stephen King, like in in the early days of his writing or like the the the peak, you know, how did you put out so much material? And he was like, cocaine. Yep.
00:20:11
Speaker
yeah But like Brandon Sanderson putting out all of these books, I'm like, no, he's not skinny enough to be on cocaine.
00:20:20
Speaker
I apparently, I think he's a member of the church as well. He is. He is. So I don't want to like say that. Maybe it's just a lot of caffeine. I don't know. Or maybe he's just, he he has a natural gift and he's leaning into it. So yeah, nothing but good things to say about him presently. He takes breaks from his writing by writing other things. Yeah. If that's not ADHD, I don't know what is.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah. I know you're asking if I- Had you read Stormlight? No. Nope. Nope. Mistborn. I am in the middle of the third book. Oh, dang. I've done a lot of reading. I've done a lot of- Yeah. I listened to Tress over the Emerald Sea. I listened to, what was the other one? Yumi in the Nightmare Painter. I listened to Elantris. I listened to the Emperor's Soul.
00:21:13
Speaker
What did you think of Elantris? It had promise, but it's very clear that that was his first book that he wrote. yeah um So I'm excited for a second Elantris because now yeah he is writing a second one, by the way.
00:21:30
Speaker
Oh, I think I heard that. yeah I am going to send you a reel that has to do with Mistborn. And I think you'll understand it more than I do because I've forgotten.
00:21:45
Speaker
a lot of it. Hold on. It's going to come to you on Instagram. Okay. Have you heard the dirt man song? put a little turn on the pillow for the termine man in k c comes to Oh, is that with Vin and uh, did you see it? I think, I think I've seen it before, but where are you? I haven't sent you anything for a while. There you are.
00:22:17
Speaker
But I don't remember enough. That makes me want to read the book again. I love says that I feel so bad for him what he's going through right now in book three. I don't know if you remember.
00:22:35
Speaker
Well, the cool thing is that I remember from Elantris is all the little clues that you don't pick up on or you think are insignificant end up like solving the mystery at the end. He gives you all the information and he's really, really good at tying it all together at the end. And that's what like made me a fan of his. So like even though i I have a lot of critiques about how he wrote Mistborn, like some of the phrasing and wording, he used a lot of words to explain one thing.
00:23:03
Speaker
yeah um the story was really good. And then you'll see at the very end how everything ties together and you're like, how did I not see this coming? I feel like it at me. I felt like it at me. I know I'm going to feel like that because there are so many clues that I'm picking up on. I because it's i just don't know how they connect. It's so obvious when you get to the end. Check in with me when you're done because it's so obvious. I was like, how did I not see it?
00:23:30
Speaker
I thought I was an intelligent person, but I feel stupid.
00:23:36
Speaker
yeah i've so I've been reading Mistborn. I'm almost finished with book three. um and been I read as much as I can at night before I go to bed. um And I don't know if I want to go back to Stormlight and read, was it Oathbringer that's next? I think so. or if I want to go into era two of Mistborn. I'm stuck on Oathbringer. I've been reading it for like a year. I've rereading it.
00:24:09
Speaker
I just don't remember anything from the first read. Huh? not joke is it just like oh There's nothing wrong with it. No, it's nothing wrong with it. I've just conditioned myself to fall asleep while I read because that's it' for 25 years, that's what I've done to get myself to fall asleep is I just read until I'm too exhausted and I'm literally falling asleep and then I put it down. But now that triggers my sleep. I start reading and then I'm like,
00:24:36
Speaker
So I get like two pages in and I'm knocked out. Yeah. But I think I need to read it in my awake time and I can do it. You got it. Now that the kids are back in school. Yes.
00:24:53
Speaker
so I have the rest of Stormlight. I have to read, including the novellas. I have the sunlit man that I have to read in the I think Miss. Two. And that's it. That one looks so good.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's it looks interesting. It looks like I've heard that that tress is the best out of the three secret projects. I have that one on hard coffee. So I'm going to read it while my kids are doing their reading time. So good. I loved it. I loved it so much. I want to hear what you thought about it. There's a whole spin off after Mistborn. It's like, and Oh yeah. The secret histories, the alley, something.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's error two with the alloy of law and bands of men and shadows of self. yep um So I have those and then I have Arcanum Unbounded or Unbound, something like that. It's all of his like short stories that he has in in one book. and Legion. Those are Legion and then the second one. Those are good. Yeah. I have to get through Stormlight first.
Podcast's Global Audience
00:26:00
Speaker
i also I also have been listening to Red Rising because none of the other Cosmere books were available on audio, look at least without an extended hold. I think one of the Mistborns was like a 29 week wait. I was like, absolutely not. I'm just going to read it. um But Red Rising yeah but red rising is um was on there. It's like Hunger Games.
00:26:29
Speaker
um Ender's game, and there was something else, all kind of combined in one. but like set in the future and like in space in sci-fi. It's on Mars. It's really cool. um I've enjoyed it. I have some problems with it, but I've, I've enjoyed it as well. Um, and I've heard very good things about the rest of the series as well. So that's what I've been reading and watching. And now that we're 25 minutes into one of six minutes,
00:27:03
Speaker
uh do you put time stamps on these so people can skip ahead if they don't want to listen to us recommend stuff no no you have to be here with us yeah yes and stuff yeah
00:27:21
Speaker
which also impresses me why we have so many downloads. But thank you. Thank you so much. Everybody in France, in the States, pure and a couple in the UK. I appreciate all of you. Australia hasn't come back, so forget about Australia. and That's fine. We beat them in Olympics anyway, so suck it.
00:27:47
Speaker
I was like, what is this beef Australia has with us? Like we love Australia and they're like beefing with us one sided. And I'm like, what's going on? And then we're like, okay, fine. Smashed all of y'all. It's like a younger sibling relationship. I guess. I was like, I love Australia. Why do they hate us?
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah. Well jokes on you. You guys had a really crappy breakdancer come. So there's going to be documentaries about her cause of the way she cheated her way in. Oh, I've seen so much about that. That's yeah it's going to be a, that's going to be like a Netflix thing coming out in the next year. I was like, I knew she was like doing a joke anyway. Yeah. Okay.
00:28:35
Speaker
Anyway, we're here for Haunting of Hill House, or as the movie calls it, The Haunting. I want to first discuss the book that we read by Shirley Jackson that was written 1953.
00:28:54
Speaker
I think that was the year. Either that or fifty seven it It was 50-something, but I can... She died in 1965.
00:29:07
Speaker
1959 was the first copyright. So I don't know when she read it, but the first copyright was 1959. Gotcha. And I think that's quite progressive for that time.
Deep Dive into 'The Haunting of Hill House' Book
00:29:20
Speaker
And I can see how this made a name for itself in because it wasn't scary to me, but it was definitely eerie.
00:29:29
Speaker
But I think it was beautifully written. It was.
00:29:37
Speaker
The prose is beautiful and it's very um poetic.
00:29:45
Speaker
it It is literature. I can see that is literature um in terms of maybe just fiction, because there I think there is a difference between literature and just fiction. um And this definitely feels like literature by the way that she's writing, and it's very skillful and intent. And I don't want to take that away from anything I'm going to say later about the book. um I think it's crafted the way she wanted to write it.
00:30:15
Speaker
Would you read other books by her? Like we have always lived in the castle. I don't know. I really don't. Um, after reading this and maybe, maybe it was because I listened to it and I didn't physically read it. Maybe that would have made a difference. Uh, but overall I did not really enjoy it. It wasn't my kind of book. I know. thank you Um,
00:30:45
Speaker
I can see everything there. Maybe. I've read some reviews about it on like Goodreads. And there's this one guy that I'll bring some of the stuff that he says. But I just personally, I just didn't like it. It wasn't my cup of tea. It wasn't my thing. But I i appreciate i appreciate it for the piece of art that it is.
00:31:15
Speaker
I like the slower build. I like the like the slow descent and it just gets like it starts off so slow and she drops these clues throughout the story. And then at the end, it just goes like faster. It just kind of spirals until the very end and the ending is so abrupt that I'm like, well that was cool. And then she doesn't try to fill in anything at the end with anything else, like the end is the end. You know what I mean? So I appreciated that. um And I marked all the spots where i where I noticed things were taken into the show, into the TV show specifically. I'm sure I missed a lot because there's a lot of subtlety, but I did
00:32:03
Speaker
I mean, I caught a lot here. so um
00:32:11
Speaker
And did you notice the very first paragraph was part of the very last part of the show? Yeah. It's a great entrance. It's a great opening to a book.
00:32:27
Speaker
are you and And the ending of the um and then the ending of the book they had, it was the beginning of the show. I'm home, I thought, and stopped to ponder at the thought or something something like that. That quote's in the book and it's written in the show in the towards the beginning. I think it's repeated then at the end of the show.
00:32:49
Speaker
right so um I wanted to read directly from the book, so I'm going to take excerpts from that, well, like most of the first paragraph, because it was in the ending of the show. It says, Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness within. It had stood so for 80 years and might stand for 80 more.
00:33:12
Speaker
Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut. Silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there walked alone. So cool. It's, again, the writing is beautiful. You can spend go play yeah you can spend like hours just picking apart small.
00:33:41
Speaker
small spots in this book and the story and pick apart all the things. So in the show, we've got the Crane family. and the siblings are Shirley, Shirley Jackson. I wonder if that's where they got her name. ah I would like to say I noticed that before, but that like this is live.
00:34:11
Speaker
The brother is the oldest, Steven is the oldest in Shirley, then Theo and Nell and Luke. So in the book, Hugh Crane was the man that built the house. And in the movie, he's the big villain haunting the house. He is the house. In the movie, he is the house. I'm not ready to talk about that yet. We're talking about the book. We're talking about Shirley Jackson's book. Yes, sir. so That sounded so demanding.
00:34:49
Speaker
that That's going to come later, I promise. I'm not quite ready for that. All I'm saying is I thought it was a cool way to like adapt the book into a series by making the crane the main family. And the Hill family built the house in the series. In the book, it was Hugh Crane that built the house.
00:35:13
Speaker
And there's Dr. Montague, which, okay, you have to tell me like, whose face you pictured as you were listening to the story. Because as I was reading it, I tried to put the actors from the series as the characters, right? So when I thought of Luke as Luke from the show, as adult Luke from the show, right? And that fit, like, I think he fits.
00:35:35
Speaker
And then you know who they have cast for Theodora and for Eleanor, I was like, they fit their characters as I'm reading this in my head. ah For me, the doctor.
00:35:46
Speaker
but um
00:35:50
Speaker
If you've watched if you've watched ah Umbrella Academy. I haven't, but ill here I'll look at the cast because it's probably someone I know.
00:36:01
Speaker
the the the man that plays um their adoptive father in Umbrella Academy, his character is so who I was picturing while I was reading this book. So if you just watch the preview, you'll see what I'm talking about.
00:36:17
Speaker
um But in the book, you've got ah Eleanor, Luke, and Theodora who are kind of recruited into doing um a visit to the house. And the doctor wants to see if he can get people who kind of have like a little bit of psychic tendencies to come into the house and see if anything happens. He's like, let's just see what happens.
00:36:40
Speaker
He's taking a very scientific approach to um the superstitious like haunting, supernatural haunting that people have described to this house.
00:36:55
Speaker
So he's, he wants to see if these, if he can find anybody that kind of has psychic ah abilities in any degree can pick up on anything in this house that's reportedly haunted that nobody wants to live in. And so he gets two people, he writes letters to a bunch of people and he finds to Theodora and Eleanor and Eleanor is our main protagonist in the story. What did you think about her before she actually got to the house?
00:37:26
Speaker
with her her trip from the the the house to the town and then to the house. I liked it. Yeah, to the house. It was kind of slow, but I liked her.
00:37:39
Speaker
um ah related to her, you know, feeling like your whole house, your whole house, goodness, your whole life has been like boring and like you want something exciting to happen and you've kind of felt trapped because she's in the story. um She's a caretaker for her mother. And then she's kind of getting railroaded by her older sister or younger sister, I think it is, who's married.
00:38:08
Speaker
um
00:38:14
Speaker
Oh, this is what I wanted to talk about. So this kind of popped up in the show. So Eleanor Vance was 32 years old when she came to Hill House. Um, the only person in the world she genuinely hated now that her mother was dead was her sister. but Now that her mother was dead. ah So her mother, she was a caretaker for her mother who was sick. Um, so what I have highlighted here, let's see why I highlighted this.
00:38:45
Speaker
Okay. Her name had turned up on Dr. Mani's list because one day when she was 12 years old and her sister was 18 and their father had been dead for not quite a month, showers of stones had fallen on their house without any warning or any indication of purpose or reason, dropping from the ceilings, rolling loudly down the walls, breaking windows and pattering maddeningly on the roof. After three days, Eleanor and her sister were removed to the house of a friend and the stones stopped falling. Nor did they ever return.
00:39:15
Speaker
Eleanor and her sister and her mother went back to living in the house and the feud with the entire neighborhood was never ended. The story had been forgotten by everyone except the people Dr. Montague consulted. Eleanor and her sister, each of whom who had supposed at the time that the other was responsible.
00:39:34
Speaker
So do you remember in the show? when the mom was talking about her father dying and there were stones falling on the house. And Corey pointed out, my husband pointed out that, yeah, she probably has some psychic abilities and maybe that's why the house is affecting her so much.
00:39:58
Speaker
And then it turns out the stones falling on the house where Eleanor was when, as a child, of course it's a different character in the show. You know, they kind of changed it. You know, I'm acceptable. I think that's fine. Um, how they put it together is great. Um, that was the phenomena in the newspaper that caught the doctor's attention. And that's his reasoning for thinking she has some sort of psychic ability. Oh, I like that. That's cool. Yeah. It's a little connection.
00:40:30
Speaker
i was I got real excited that part. I was like, oh my gosh. Because there there were a lot of connections with the book with um which direct quotes taken from the book and then used in the show. um And I didn't really pick up on a whole lot of other connections, but I guess there was one like you had said there.
00:40:54
Speaker
And there was the, the song about the grottons that was used in the show as well. Sorry, talk about the like, um, the, the, the man who came in and killed the whole family starting with like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Um, that was using the show as well. But I wanted to say with all these connections,
00:41:25
Speaker
there' still The show still felt completely different than the book. Obviously you have like same character names and stuff like that, but it had a completely different feel. It wasn't trying to say the same thing, I don't think, as the book was.
00:41:42
Speaker
The show stands alone. The book stands alone. You can look at them as two separate things, but the vibe from the book, maybe like it is how you said, listening to somebody narrate it for you changed that for you. But to me, the vibe from the book matches the vibe from the show. Okay.
00:42:02
Speaker
the the fact that you have all these things going on and with the dynamics between the people and then kid they get interrupted by these paranormal happenings. That happens in the book. Like the thing happens and then they just kind of move on with their drama in both the show and in the book. right They're kind of like, well, that happened anyway.
00:42:35
Speaker
besides maybe Mel in a show um feeling like maybe some sort of belonging to the house. um that I don't feel like that relationship is explored as much as it does in the book. Besides that, I think it's about like completely different things. And so, yeah. Yeah, right. On the surface, they are yeah different the completely different subject matter, different things, different dynamics. Absolutely.
00:43:02
Speaker
I can see like what you were saying though about the feel of it, being like the vibe being the same. um Especially if we just focus on Eleanor's, and Nell's situation, her story kind of ends pretty early on in the show.
00:43:22
Speaker
But her descent into like that kind of madness happens in the book and in the show, even though there are different circumstances, I feel like they match pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. And I have some spots kind of marked out to prove my point. But I did want to bring up the part in the early part where she like stopped for a meal.
00:43:48
Speaker
and there's a little girl and a mother in the dining room nearby. And the little girl doesn't want to swallow yeah she doesn't want to eat, she doesn't want to drink her milk because it's not with her own cup, ah quoting from the book, and the little girl's mother said she wants her cup of stars.
00:44:07
Speaker
She's refusing her milk, she wants her cup of stars. And Eleanor is listening in on this and she's thinking, indeed, yes, Eleanor thought, indeed, so do I, a cup of stars, of course. Her little cup, the mother was explaining, it has stars on the bottom and she always drinks her milk from it at home. She calls it her cup of stars because she can see the stars while she drinks her milk.
00:44:27
Speaker
The mother told the little girl, you'll have your milk from your cup of stars tonight when we get home. But just for now, just to be a very good little girl, will you take the little milk from this glass? Don't do it. Eleanor told the little girl in her head.
00:44:42
Speaker
insist because it's not quite i'm like those are her thoughts insist on your cup of stars once they have trapped you into being like everyone else you will never see your cup of stars again don't do it and the little girl glanced at her and smiled a little subtle dimpling holy comprehending smile and shook her head stubbornly at the glass brave girl oh nor thought wise brave girl i like that part Yeah. And I like how they incorporated that into the show with Mrs. Dudley telling little baby Eleanor, baby faced cute little nail to insist on her own cup of stars.
00:45:23
Speaker
For most of the quotes that were pulled directly from the book and used in the show, I felt like Flanagan did a good job of weaving it into his own writing. Again, I can't remember if he was the one who wrote wrote it. I think his credit is as writer, creator. Yeah. yeah um But because I guess he was director for all of it, I'm kind of giving him the credit here. um But that part in the show has always felt off to me and felt like it didn't fit as well as the other stuff did. And so I never really kind of take it out in the show. um Yeah, it was, it was very distinct so I can see what you mean. But in the book, they referenced that cup of stars like over and over again. So she really, as a character in the book adopts that cup of stars analogy. Don't knock over my water, sir. Thank you.
00:46:22
Speaker
Um, Davey, uh, he, I lost it. The analogy of the cup of stars. Yeah. She adopts it as a character. The character in the book adopts it to her, her own persona as her, like her cup of stars, her place in the world, her way to be different herself. Cause her whole life she was just taking care of her mother. So she never got her own identity.
00:46:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm Eleanor cause I'm wearing this and I'm like, yeah, that was, yeah. So yeah, Mike Flanagan is credited as creator for television created by written by a creator and director. Yeah. Yeah. So he did the adaptation. I, there are other writers on other episodes that are accredited as written by, but,
00:47:22
Speaker
Yep. I like the the house and the show. I think it fits the, but we referenced earlier the vibe. I think it fits the vibe of the book more. Um, and it feels more homely, I guess. but more of i'll talk I'll talk about the the movie later. Um, but yeah, it does feel more like a man or more where someone would live, you know,
00:47:52
Speaker
yeah
00:47:58
Speaker
And I had something else I was going to say. I totally forgot what I was going to say. That's okay if it comes back to you. ah um Anyway, i want I want to talk about this review that I found about the hunting bill house. And i I agree with what's being said, but at the same time, it just wasn't wasn't for me. I didn't like it. Um, but this reviewer said that, um, for the house that Shirley Jackson describes the house from nearly two pages without ever physically describing it, other than to say that it's enormous and dark and has steps leading up to a veranda.
00:48:39
Speaker
Um, no, there's other like very specific details on the screen in the house later on. What is later? Yeah, later, later on, it goes about the angles being off and the all that. The descriptions of where the tower is in relation to the front door is in relation to the windows from the bedroom is in relation to the kitchen. I don't know what they do. They pay attention.
00:49:03
Speaker
i I kind of see what you he was talking about with like the the feel of the house and describing it as an entity. That's more important to the story it is building. That's the point of the book.
00:49:18
Speaker
That's like the main driving force of the whole story. Why is he? Is he saying that as a criticism? I just want to make sure. No, no, no, no, no. He's complimenting him. He's giving it five stars and he's telling all about why he loved it. Yeah. Okay. I'm with you. He goes in to talk about Eleanor's and Theodore's relationship and how it's done really well and how they sort of become sisters, but then there's like jealousy between the two of them. Yeah, like sisters.
00:49:46
Speaker
like sisters. So he's just complimenting. They're frenemies. But on how Jackson does it and how it, they it wow, I cannot talk today or ever, I guess, on how it goes through Eleanor's head and how it kind of shows maybe her declining madness, so to say, or whatever's happening low descent. That's what I yeah felt like it was a slow spiraling descent. Um, he also says that there's no physical description of Theodora or really any of the other characters besides Dr. Montague. So if you look into it even further, you could be like, it is this all in Eleanor's head? Is she imagining this? Like is it, are we reading a, um,
00:50:43
Speaker
unreliable narrator, is that kind of what we're we're reading? um I even at one point yeah thought that maybe she wasn't even real herself, that she was like a specter looking in a situation where there's other people, but there's evidence that she, you know, in every other part of the book where she's real and physical and because they talk to her. She's the narrator. She's the protagonist. It's her story. But there's like these really specific moments where she's just observing, even though she's in the room, and everybody else is referenced except for her.
00:51:28
Speaker
I don't know what that means, but that was that was very interesting and it seemed very intentional. Like I said, you could take little bits and just like discuss and dive into them for like hours.
00:51:42
Speaker
and anding That's what I love about literature. yeah including um the
00:51:51
Speaker
And in some of the scenes, there are no transitions in between what's happening. Like, for instance, yeah when... Yeah, it just um goes right to the next part, yeah. Yeah, when Theodora is in the bathroom taking a bath, Elinor's in her room looking out of a window, and then in the narrative very next paragraph, there's no transition, and Theodora's... They're just in the dining room. ...counting on the bathroom door, telling Elinor to hurry up. Yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
um It's purposeful. it's It's done that to... Like I said, it's like that in the TV show too. Not that there's not transitions, but it's like you have these moments that they're hitting on, I think. Yeah, and it's supposed to create the unsettling about what just happened. And it matches the structure of the house. It's later on in the book from where I'm referencing, but
00:52:50
Speaker
where they talk about like how there's no right angles. Everything is just a little bit off and how Hugh Crane did that on purpose. And maybe it adds to the madness that people feel in the house. Because I would feel subconsciously anxious and aitch in like ah in an environment like that too. like I think anybody would. It's like a fun house, you know what I mean?
00:53:09
Speaker
yeah I think it just explains why I felt so lost during the book while listening to it. um and I was very confused at some points because it would go from everyone being inside the house and then having a conversation to, oh, now Theodora and Eleanor are walking through the lawn or the woods or something and going to a tea party.
00:53:33
Speaker
and i was just i It threw me off so much to a point where I i guess I didn't fully enjoy the book, but it it does it for a reason and I know that it's there specifically. I will say I did have to read some spots more than once to make sure I was like really reading what I thought I was reading. did i miss ah it mix thats It makes you feel like you're missing something.
00:54:00
Speaker
and it throws you off. So if she did it on purpose, well done, ma'am, well done. um So ah the doctor is explaining in this one part of the book on page 77, he says, the result of all these tiny aberrations of measures meant adds up to a fairly large distortion in the house as a whole.
00:54:25
Speaker
So he's he's talking about the angles, which you assume are the right angles you are accustomed to and have every right to expect are true, are actually a fraction of a degree off in one direction or another. So not even the stairs are level, he says.
00:54:41
Speaker
Making the whole house just feel ah wrong. Yeah. on um And I just, I kind of like that about his character and and how he's trying to use science to prove why.
00:54:56
Speaker
everything is off and feels uneasy, but he still believes that there's some supernatural element going on. He still hopes. He is hoping for it. That's a good term.
00:55:09
Speaker
yeah He's excited about it. And you notice that like there's all the scary things that happen and they're completely freaked out. And then the next moment, Eleanor is just ecstatic. She is happy. She's she's like, this is great. Like in the moment, she's scared. But then she's like, my life is great.
00:55:36
Speaker
I don't know. I just felt like there were so many character switches that it, again, it spun my head around in circles and it just made me even more yeah confused because there was there would be one moment where Eleanor and the Theodora are getting along and they're they're so nice. and then there The second later, Theodora's yelling at Nell or something. And the same thing with Luke. And it's just, I don't know, I i couldn't get a ah sense of the characters well enough. I think a lot of those moments were the influence from the house, especially when Eleanor starts to hate Theodora. In the moment, she's like, I hate her. I hate her. I wish I could smash her head in, basically. She's like, I want to kill her. I hate her. I hate her. She's got the ick for Theodora.
00:56:26
Speaker
But then like, you know, a few paragraphs later, they're fine. um
00:56:34
Speaker
Which like it all goes along with the theme of keeping you thrown off. Yeah. And then ah so um Eleanor's mother would bang on the wall to get her attention, to help her go to the bathroom, to get her medicine, to bring her food. She would bang on the wall, and that was a thing that happened in the book with the banging, and that was a thing that happened in the show. But in the show, it was the one ghost's child that would bang on the wall when he needed help, because he couldn't move, remember? and So he would bang on the wall in the book. It's Eleanor, and it's her mother.
00:57:13
Speaker
um And then that one scene in the show where they're in their room as kids and there's knocking all over the place so much that it's like shaking the walls. um That's one of the first <unk>-ish moments of paranormal activity in the book. And it's, uh,
00:57:40
Speaker
it's Theodora and Eleanor in their room. And then at first they're like joking about it. And so Eleanor's like, not at all like my mother knocking on the wall. I was dreaming again. And then Theodores says, bang, bang. And then Eleanor says, bang. And they they're laughing about it. yeah She's like, what am I afraid of?
00:58:03
Speaker
And then ah it says, it sounded, Eleanor thought, like a hollow noise, a hollow bang as though something were hitting the doors with an iron kettle or an iron bar or an iron glove. It pounded regularly for a minute and then suddenly more softly. And then again, in quick flurry, seeming to be going methodically from door to door at the end of the hall. Distantly, she thought she could hear the voices of Luke and the doctor calling from somewhere below. And she thought, they are not up here with us at all. And heard the iron crashing against what must have been a door very close.
00:58:34
Speaker
Yeah. Again, it's written beautifully. i just yeah
00:58:43
Speaker
it's it what it wasn't my It wasn't my thing, but it's a it's a very it's artistic. yeah And i I do think at some point I will need to go back and reread this book. Yeah, read it from the book. Yeah, I think that'll help. um And so in that same scene, they're like they're talking to the men and they're like, where were you? And they said that they were chasing a dog.
00:59:07
Speaker
And I was like, Oh, the dog from the show, the dog, the dog. And they followed it outside. And so the house was like manipulating them, like sending the men away while it terrorized the women. And it was trying to separate them and everything. Yeah. So, um, I'm done talking about the book. Okay. I did the TV show.
00:59:33
Speaker
I did like the part where it has the, this part like like spooked me a little bit where there's chalk on the wall, words written in the chalk and the letters said, help Eleanor come home. Literal chills at that part. um I'm just like kind of, I marked all the spots in the book that were similar to the show. What is this one?
00:59:59
Speaker
the main, like the scare the the the the one part in the book that was supposed to be like the climax of the scary paranormal activity. um Basically, they're in the bedroom altogether. Or no, they're in the parlor? Where are they?
01:00:19
Speaker
And then everything in there. Like the elements of them being really cold. And then there's one part where Uh, Eleanor was holding Theodora's hands as something scary was happening. Like everything went dark and she was like, what's going on? And then after it was over, Theodora wakes up and she's like, what's wrong? And then Eleanor was like, whose hand was I holding? That was scary. That was actually kind of scary. I was like, what the heck? But anyway, um,
01:01:04
Speaker
Yeah, they're in one of the rooms altogether and everything is shaking and like the whole, it felt like the whole house was going to come down and it was swaying. um at That part, they they described windows sounding like they were breaking and I was like, okay, that sounds like the storm in the show.
01:01:25
Speaker
And then what else did I,
01:01:31
Speaker
okay so the one part if you don't want me to read from the book if that's Oh, I'm good with whatever. OK. Because I just want to like point out like how her descent into madness in the book is so well done and portrayed in the show. And so um this was the best part that I found in the book. She's in the library, which throughout the whole book, Eleanor hates the library because her mother would like force her to read to her for hours and hours. And so she just can't be around books.
01:02:05
Speaker
and the library was like, she said it smelled really bad and she was like, nope, not going in the library. All of a sudden as the house is taking her over psychologically, she's being lured into the library and she loves it in the library. So from the book it says, and here I am, she thought, here I am inside. It was not cold at all, but deliciously fondly warm. It was light enough for her to see the iron stairway curving around and around up to the tower.
01:02:31
Speaker
And the little door at the top. Under her feet, the stone floor moved caressingly, rubbing itself against the soles of her feet. And all around the soft air touched her, stirring her hair, drifting against her fingers. Coming in a light breath across her mouth and she danced in circles. So that was kind of like the show where she was like dancing through the house and it was squeaky.
01:02:50
Speaker
No stone lions for me, she thought, no oleanders. I have broken the spell of Hill House and somehow come inside. I am home, she thought, and stopped in wonder at the thought, I am home, I am home, she thought, now to climb. Climbing the narrow iron stairway was intoxicating, going higher and higher, around and around, looking down, clinging to the slim iron railing, looking far, far down onto the stone floor.
01:03:18
Speaker
She climbs all the way up. And in the book, that's where she gets hung. Right. And so I thought she was going to die. I thought she was going to fall like her mother did. I thought like that was going to be the spot where she died. But the other members of the household find her who had been chasing her the whole time, find her and the help her come down. She kind of like the spell breaks once she um comes back to her senses in that moment. And she's just like, OK. She just comes down after I think ah Luke comes up to get her.
01:03:50
Speaker
And that's when they decide to send her away from the house. Kind of like they were trying to get their mom out of the house in the show, like get yourself away from the house. It's got a lot of influence on you. Get away. And so they're trying to send her away. um And they're like, you have to go away by yourself. Like they were saying, you know, we can have someone drive with you. And she's like, she's like, no, I want to stay. And then should we go over the very end?
01:04:16
Speaker
Sure, let's do it. Okay. So she's driving away and she's like, but why? And then she's like saying goodbye, goodbye to everyone. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. And then at the very end, the house takes over her again. And she says, I'm really doing it. I am doing this all by myself now. At last, this is me. I am really, really, really doing it by myself.
01:04:39
Speaker
And the unending crashing second before the car hurled into the tree, she thought clearly, why am I doing this? Why am I doing this? Why don't they stop me?
1999 Movie Adaptation Critique
01:04:50
Speaker
And yep. And that's it pretty much. there's like one That's it. Except for the one paragraph of the epilogue. That's not listed as an epilogue. But yeah, that's how it ended. And I was like, that's amazing. Yeah, that was a cool ending.
01:05:07
Speaker
sad but I was like yeah I'm pretty like not surprised that she dies at the end and I was surprised okay because I was used to the show and so when she climbs to the top I was like oh okay this is what this is it and she doesn't I was like so she's fine like everyone's okay at the end that's what okay that's boring weird interesting because I saw I had like four minutes left in the book or something. So like, okay, that's a weird ending. And then it was like, boom, she crashed her car in the trees. Like, Oh, there it is. Got it. And there's no resolution. That's just it. That's it. She's part of the house. She's there. Yeah, basically. Basically. I wonder if elements from the TV show were kind of taken from
01:06:00
Speaker
the the movie done in 99. I hope not. Okay but in the movie the house is haunted with all the ghost children that Hugh Crane supposedly like worked to death or killed or I don't understand. It's so ambiguous. i It was way too ambiguous for them turning it into a mystery which I was like mad at. I texted you all dang it they're trying to get into a mystery. Yeah. I was mad. And and they don't even go through it with it. She just goes to the ledger and there's a kid's name with their age. And she's like, he killed them. And they were conveniently highlighted.
01:06:41
Speaker
So lazy. But then it doesn't say if he like worked them to death in his factory or if he killed them or like, what?
01:06:52
Speaker
But all those all that it was children's ghosts were kind of like living in the house. They were all kind of quote trapped in the house still being tormented by the ghost of Ukraine. Who is the house? Which the kids moving through the sheets and the curtains was just like swimming through the sheets. It was the creepiest thing, but not as intended, just because of the effects. Well, you were just creeped out like the uncanny valley of the effects of the old CGI, which you said like early CGI, and I'm like, excuse me.
01:07:32
Speaker
Sir. To make you more sad, that's the year I was born. Oh, I know. I know.
01:07:41
Speaker
um But I'm like, yeah it wasn't just early CGI, it was bad CGI because Jurassic Park had a lot of CGI and you don't even notice that it is. yeah also That was tactic effects was in 93. I'm just specifically referencing the CGI spots.
01:08:00
Speaker
so Well, since we're talking about the movie now, um if you haven't guessed it already, I thoroughly hated it. I laughed out loud when should have when I should have been scared. I was laughing. Oh, absolutely. I'm a lightweight. That's how bad it was. It was just a horror movie lightweight. It was trying to be the book, but at the same time, it changed core pieces of it to where it was no longer um a a a representation of what of what the book would be in ah in a movie form. It didn't trust this it didn't trust the book. No. um and Honestly, I don't know if you could faithfully adapt it
01:08:52
Speaker
in a way where the book is the movie. you know I think the show does a great job in adapting it as ah its own thing, but still has respect for the source material.
01:09:05
Speaker
And to that, I would say I think that the right person could, but I think that a lot of lay people watching it would think it was boring. Yeah. Cause it would have to be very subtle. It would be very slow. It wouldn't be exciting in your face explaining everything to you. Absolutely. like A lot of the audience would not appreciate it, but I think it could be done. And I think it would be brilliant.
01:09:33
Speaker
And that's not to discount the TV series at all. right Because I like what what was done with that very much. Yeah. But the the movie is just it's just awful. like Like we were kind of into that. It's like this horror movie. The movie, it was just awful. It was just awful.
01:09:55
Speaker
it began It's like a usual horror movie in the beginning. And then it, like you said, it switches to this weird mystery thing, which it didn't fully explore. It was just like, he had kids and he the the kids died. And then that was the end of the investigating and the mystery. And then it goes into... I have to save the children and they're like, they're dead.
01:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, I have to save the kids and now we have to save them. And that wasn't at any bit in the, in the book at all. And then they try to shoehorn in her being like, this is my home now. I have to stay here. Why? That didn't make any sense. And it's just, no, it didn't. It's about family. I texted you, what are we fast and furious?
01:10:44
Speaker
That was my exact thought, too. yeah um So Owen Wilson was cast as Luke, which that's not a bad casting, but immediately, and this was probably before the whole trope of him saying, wow, started. But like one of his first lines, he said, wow. And I was like, got to see how many times he did that. So my wow count is four, we've got four wows and one meow, because he did the same till meow. Which is close. Four wows, one meow. And there was, in the book, towards the beginning, so in the book, Luke's character is he is ah one of the descendants of the owner, so he is standing to inherit the house, which is why he was there. The terms of them being able to use the house is that they have somebody in the family with them.
01:11:37
Speaker
right to make sure everything goes well, right? Which we didn't even talk about the Dudley's from the book. i One, Mr. Dudley's in there for what, a sentence? A minute. Yeah. And then Mrs. Dudley has two lines that she repeats through the whole thing, which was kind of interesting. I said breakfast at nine on a dinner. Dinner will be on the sideboard at six. I do not stay after dark. Or what did she say? At the, in the night, in the dark.
01:12:07
Speaker
in the dark. yeah No one in town can hear you. No one's closer than that. But anyway, Luke in the book mentioned something about burning the house and I was like, burning the house. He tries to burn the house in the series. yeah And then in the movie, he still wants to burn the house. Yeah, but with everyone inside it, so that's a genius idea.
01:12:32
Speaker
Well, he's not very smart. No, it was right after they all got trapped and they tried to leave and they couldn't. Yeah. And he's like, the door's closed and he's like, let's bring it down. Oh, great. You can't go anywhere. So I guess you're going down with it. What was with the water, the stream of water inside the house? Was that supposed to be like the stream that was outside on the property? I don't know. That was weird because it had the books in the water.
01:12:58
Speaker
And like the carousel mirror room was stupid. I know. I was like, they're going to use that as a scary part later. And they did, even though it was stupid and like, well, it didn't make sense. And so she's in the looking at herself in the mirror and it's not her face. I'm like, that's creepy, pointless for creepy. And then she goes to the other side of the room, which is still just mirror. And like her reflection is showing her getting pregnant.
01:13:24
Speaker
She gets scared. I don't know. Why would that be scary? And then I got mad when they killed Luke in the most. That was so funny. Savage, savagely possible. It was funny in a bad way. I literally said on a movie out loud, I was like, what the heck? They just killed Luke. Out loud to myself. That was the funniest thing.
01:13:53
Speaker
I think by the time that happened, you'd gone to bed. So I couldn't, I didn't want to spoil it either. yeah I was ahead of you by like, I don't know, 20 minutes. some I don't think it was that long, but you were 10, 15 minutes. Yeah. And when she threw the thing through the glass window,
01:14:16
Speaker
And then the glass window reforms and then comes back at her and she didn't get cut, even though she was a sea of ah broken glass. I don't think that was real. I think that was just a manifestation because when they come through the room later with Theo with Theo and with Luke and the the doctor, um the window was broken, but there was no glass on the floor. It's still stupid. It was still. Oh, agreed.
01:14:48
Speaker
And then that's why you don't play the harpsichord. Who was that character? I was like, who is she? It was, it was an assistant. I know. Which in, in the book, I think Theodora is, is the doctor's assistant or something like that. No, I don't think so.
01:15:06
Speaker
It said that in the description, but I'd have her from the book who like who she was and why she was there. I think she was kind of like recruit. He I thought he recruited her because of some sort of psychic happening in her background.
01:15:23
Speaker
maybe um ah But yeah, you're like getting a glass for that cut was so random because Mel runs up with like a little with the a little glass that you would use for a glass of like port, which is like, you know, and after dinner alcohol, um just a tiny little glass and she like holds it up to her eye and says, this will stop the blood from going into her eye. And I'm like, so would pressure.
01:15:48
Speaker
But also, the cut is on her eye as well. So, huh? I know. What? What's the what's the problem with the blood going in her eye? Nothing happens. If if there's ah a sound or a word that encapsulates this entire movie, it's huh? Huh?
01:16:12
Speaker
Just so many words. And then her fading up and becoming one with the ghost children at the end. was just She didn't sustain any life threatening injuries. So why is she dying?
01:16:30
Speaker
Her spirit is like, I'm going now. She's like smiling. She's happy about it. Oh my gosh. She has to be there for the children. She has to stay.
01:16:42
Speaker
The children don't care about you. Eleanor, please help us. And she's like, what do you want me to do? I'm like, they just told you, help her. Help them. help that They literally said, help us. She's like, what do you And then what was with like the stupid Like they're them telling her to get Hugh Crane to the door all of a sudden. That's the solution. What is a portal of hell now? There's a port of a hell inside the house because that's a thing. What?
01:17:20
Speaker
And I thought the same thing with the shadow like coming down and you were like, are those hands or wings? And I was like, it's the mind flayer from Stranger Things. And then, oh, it's a face. And I'm like, oh, it's a face. like Literally the same thoughts. the The split second when I first initially saw it, like there was this maybe a millisecond where I thought, oh, that kind of reminds me of the Midnight Club.
01:17:46
Speaker
with the the shadow and everything. And then it morphed into like some weird wings or something, and that it and then it was eyes. But then it was a face. It was ah it was a stupid house face.
01:18:02
Speaker
well If you want to watch a ghost house movie, go watch Monster House instead. Don't watch it. It was Monster House. You're absolutely right. I wonder if the people who did Monster House like saw it and they were like, we can do this better. they did Every time I think of that movie, by the way, I don't know. Have you seen it? it Not in a long time.
01:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, there's a there's a ah meme or a gif that's constantly used of, I think, one of the pizza employees runs up to one of the kids, takes one of their pizzas and like calls in his mouth and then runs away and it's like the most weirdest random thing and just makes me laugh every time I think I got it. Let me find it. I have to play it like that.
01:18:57
Speaker
First thing that pops up on YouTube, ready?
01:19:03
Speaker
Okay. Everyone can enjoy this as well.
01:19:20
Speaker
It's the weirdest thing. but It's so funny. um Anyway. Anyway, the movie, I was surprised at how much of the book was in the movie and then they ruined it. But at first I was like impressed. I'm like, oh, wow, they're actually staying pretty true. But yeah, as far as like the first of the things that happened. And I think the casting was good. I think the actors did well.
01:19:49
Speaker
for what it was excuse me for what it was they did well until the end when it got a little nuts and she's yelling about you know family and then the children the children um Catherine Zeta Jones was classic Catherine Zeta Jones and what you said about Owen Wilson like having a weird smile I wonder if like in later years he had like some sort of a a face coach or something because ah I didn't think it was weird how he was like talking or smiling because that was just him. like You watch Shanghai Nights or Shanghai Noon and that's his face. He just really pushes his like his smile forward. <unk>s like it Yeah. Yeah. i was like look Look at his IMDB picture and that's his face. yeah i was Maybe I just haven't seen enough Owen Wilson movies.
01:20:37
Speaker
maybe he maybe that and maybe he like doesn't do that as much anymore but like oh absolutely he does it i see it i see it yeah yeah yeah
01:20:52
Speaker
And when ah they came in, and he's talking about being like an insomniac, because the whole point of the movie is that the doctor is recruiting people who are insomniacs for a sleep study. But really, he's having them go there to see like, if there's some sort of shared ah
01:21:10
Speaker
I don't know what word I'm trying to use. Phenomenal. Some sort of like a shared, like if somebody says there's something scary, so he feeds them the story. Hysteria. He feeds them a story and to see if it's true. like, there's no way that's it.
Mental Health and Shirley Jackson's Life
01:21:30
Speaker
Nope. But yeah he the origin of that word, hysterectomy, is like incredibly misogynistic and it's problematic. And I hate that they still use it, but that's a whole different subject. I didn't know that. yeah My bad. Well, basically when women have like emotions, they they were labeled as hysterical and hysterical was specifically used for women.
01:21:55
Speaker
And this is just like an unprofessional overview, but then they attached that word hysteria to women. So women have a uterus, and that's our source of hysteria in early medicine. That was our source of hysteria. It was causing all of our emotional problems. Couldn't be the problematic men, and we're having a psychological reaction to that. Oh, absolutely not. It's the women part. No. So it's the women parts. It's our uterus causing all of this emotion and behavior, and so they called it Hysterical ah Hysteria, and then Hysterectomy. You're removing your Hysteria, yeah. Do you see?
01:22:38
Speaker
The problem is just you guys have too much emotions because we're it's true. We're just way too emotion Yeah, and grown men never have you know tantrums over little things My wife Jacqueline she she says sometimes I feel like you PMS worse than I do so with some of my moods
01:23:04
Speaker
Can I just say, we had this conversation, I was like describing to my husband like how it had felt when I was like deep in postpartum depression, which was on top of my regular depression, which was on top of my regular anxiety, and up until then, undiagnosed ADHD, which makes you feel like you're going crazy. I felt angry all the time, like on the verge of just rage permanently. That's what I felt like, right? Just angry, nothing could make me happy. And then ah and my husband was like, oh, wow, I'm glad I have never felt like that. I'm like, yeah, I don't think you would have been able to handle it as well.
01:23:49
Speaker
It's like true.
01:23:56
Speaker
So off topic. No, I. Obviously, I can't relate to to anything like that, because I well, I'm a male. I haven't gone through childbirth. I can't. I will never. So I will never experience what that's like.
01:24:15
Speaker
um
01:24:19
Speaker
and But in an effort to try to relate to you and not try to take the attention away, I guess, I don't know. um No, it's fine.
01:24:28
Speaker
I have recently felt like it doesn't have to stay in the podcast is because we were talking about it and it's it's um on the same only say if you're okay with it staying in the podcast.
01:24:44
Speaker
I have just felt like the mood swings have been worse lately for me. And I related to you when you were just talking about rage just all the time. And for some reason I felt like that a lot lately, just really mad for a long time for no reason or for maybe a little thing that happens. Just intense rage, yelling, screaming, cursing, wanting to hit something or someone. Um,
01:25:22
Speaker
and just what maybe five minutes later just back to normal like nothing happened and yeah it's just I don't know it's so I understand that part of it and yeah it sucks it does yeah yeah I know you're recovering from surgery but the best way to to help cope with that is getting it out of your body physically however you choose to do that, pushups, running, jumping in place until you feel better by getting it out physically. One time I was...
01:26:02
Speaker
One time I was upstairs in my bathroom and I was like, I just had so much pent up like anxiety and I just felt so unsettled. I was like, I want to sing. And so I just put on my favorite songs in my earbuds and I was just singing them at the top of my lungs, just loud, right? I was just like, and I wasn't trying to be good. I was just like shout singing to get these feelings out and it worked. But after I was done,
01:26:30
Speaker
ah I could hear, there were workers in my neighbor's backyard working on their landscaping and they were talking at normal volume and I could hear them.
01:26:44
Speaker
Which means my neighbor's ah landscapers heard my mental breakdown in song form. So if you're ever having a bad day. You have to about that.
01:26:58
Speaker
so think about
01:27:03
Speaker
ah But that kind of goes on theme with like the book where they're trying to get the person away from the situation. If you feel trapped and you're in a situation mentally, even removing yourself to a different place can reset your mind a little bit. There's all these little coping mechanisms like square breathing. That was a big help for me, um getting things out physically like that, you know, with moving your body, making your voice loud.
01:27:31
Speaker
um In the book, they were getting Eleanor out of the house. And in the show, they were getting that that they were getting Olivia out of the house, out of away from the situation. And that's a real and very helpful coping mechanism too, when allowed. Yeah. I think this is very on brand as well um because Shirley Jackson had a lot of health problems as well.
01:28:00
Speaker
Interesting. It was anxiety and probably depression, and i I had read a book for one of my classes. The classes was Mad, Bad, and Dangerous, and it was about literary writers and why they are so often associated with mental illness. and
01:28:23
Speaker
what What is it? it's um
01:28:28
Speaker
It's like manic depressive, manic depressive, depressed individuals. so Um, a lot of times a lot of these literary writers, these great literary writers tend to be manic depressives. Um, was one of, um, um, Hugo, what's the, who's the guy?
01:28:52
Speaker
The French, the French art writer, I think he wrote a hundred back of Notre Dame, I think. Mm hmm. Notre Dame anyway. um But Shirley Jackson was one of those and she might have had been manic depressive. She certainly had anxiety. She certainly had been through something and writing is a creative outlet. Creative outlets help manage things like that. Absolutely.
01:29:24
Speaker
And what I love about her writing and a lot of the other people who have suffered like she has, like Virginia Woolf, they choose to use it in a beautiful form. Victor Hugo. I knew I knew who it was. Yes. Make creating out of it. Yeah, they create. And even if it's sad or it is Oh, but those are my favorite though. Haunting like or something or anything like that. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. it's yes it's ah I think it's beautiful because it's a piece of human creation. It's a part of the human existence and that's what makes it beautiful. And just for her writing style. Her writing style is just amazing.
01:30:11
Speaker
um Anyway, but taken taken from the wiki her Wikipedia, You can do it.
01:30:21
Speaker
Wikipedia. My brain just moved so quickly and it has all these things that I want to get out and my mouth can't move that fast. um Apparently, she was a very heavy smoker which resulted in chronic asthma, joint pain, exhaustion, dizziness, all that kind of stuff.
01:30:40
Speaker
um She also saw a psychiatrist for severe anxiety which kept her housebound for extended periods of time. um She also had a agoraphobia apparently and her doctor prescribed her barbiturates which at the time were considered a safe harmless drug. um She also had periodic prescriptions for amphetamines for weight loss which may have aggravated her anxiety um and just using all those kinds of different drugs and all the other stuff could have led to the medications just counteracting each other or a combination of all of them may have contributed to um the rapid decline in her health later late in her life. um She was ostracized
01:31:30
Speaker
for pretty much all of her life. She never really got along with any of the school kids. And then, um, in the town that she was in was at North Bennington. Um, she was authorized by them as well. Um, and again, it said but in the Wikipedia, I didn't to do the proper research, but it said that she, um, abused alcohol as well, which a lot of the writers that I had studied and in that class tended to do, they tended to,
01:31:57
Speaker
abuse, drugs, alcohol, um sex. Victor Hugo we talked about was a frequent, frequent flyer, I guess you could say, for all the brothels in Paris.
01:32:11
Speaker
oh girl yeah it's It's said that the day he died, there was like hundreds of um
01:32:21
Speaker
of these women who came out in support of him. But yeah, that's that's a little bit more about Shirley Jackson and her life. That so really tracks with the character of Nell. and like the little just Like I said, I related to that character in the little details that you wouldn't think to put in the book unless you've really been through it. Like the excitement of just being somewhere different, of feeling like you're a part of something where to other people that would feel so mundane and they wouldn't even think about it. And she was sitting there having this inner monologue of I'm sitting in this room next to a fireplace with this glass of, I think it was whiskey they drink every night. um Was it whiskey?
01:33:05
Speaker
It was Brandy. Brandy. see Not that different, but Brandy. With these people she had just met and she was like feeling so self-important for doing this thing of coming to this house and drinking Brandy at night and having these conversations with these people. And like that was exciting to her because she spent her, and like as an author, you wouldn't think to include something like that because it's so accurate.
01:33:37
Speaker
Like taking these joys in like these little things, especially when you come from somewhere that's just like you're suppressed and you're controlled and you're almost enslaved into this house. And she was a caretaker and she didn't have any choices of her own. And so all of a sudden as as her character, is she's made that decision to take the car to go to the house.
01:34:02
Speaker
to stay there and she was so enthralled by that. um As an author, you wouldn't be able to write that nuance unless you've had those feelings. And another example of that I think was just, I think there was a point where she the the trip to Hill House, she saw a field of flowers or a specific flower somewhere and just immediately thought of a different life, I guess, with those flowers. um And it was it just it felt like someone who had this
01:34:38
Speaker
just wild imagination that could take hold of anything simple or small and just create something enormous out of it. huh And again, i I think that just speaks to who she was as a person. Um, and obviously I think it helped her write, but I think it was one of those things where she had to write because she had all this imagination. She had to get it out. So,
01:35:10
Speaker
and another example of how you can see her in, in now. And obviously the, what we talked about earlier about the rapid decline. I wonder if that's how she felt later in her life. I don't know when she wrote hunting of hell house, but let me see if I can find it.
01:35:36
Speaker
Well, we know the publishing date and we know when she died, how she died when sixty how old was she when she died? Um, she was 48 when she died, um, in 1965. And then she, yeah, she published hunting of hell house in 1959. So it wasn't very, um, very long after. Yeah. Um, so again, that's maybe maybe what she had felt like for a lot of her life or at least towards the end.
01:36:06
Speaker
Yeah. so Absolutely. That that fits.
01:36:15
Speaker
it's it's a very I think it's a very important piece of literature. Even if i it wasn't for me, you know I think it's still important to read. so For sure. um I am grateful to have read it in the end.
01:36:34
Speaker
I never would have read it otherwise. So I think this is great. And there was the other that ah one of the other books she wrote, the This is Where We Live, I think. Yeah, I think someone like that ah was adapted into a show or a movie. And I did watch that. And I was like, oh, that's kind of good. But it wasn't like I didn't realize it was one of her books that I came from. So I i think um I'll be interested in reading or listening to that.
01:37:03
Speaker
um i've In wrapping up this whole season for haunting the podcast season that I'm talking about, yeah um did you have any specific favorite moments from the TV show?
TV Adaptation of 'Haunting of Hill House' and Transition to 'Bly Manor'
01:37:19
Speaker
I think I had favorite moments in every episode. i Watching it ah this time and analyzing it, I like it better. um I still have the same criticisms of giving it a happy ending at the end of the season.
01:37:37
Speaker
I think it's brave when we don't get a happy ending for creators to put it out there without a happy ending because most people I feel like don't like that. People want happy endings, right? And there, most of the time with most stories, I'm like, yeah, get with the guy, you know, have the happily ever after. I want everybody to be happy. But it if it fits within the story,
01:38:01
Speaker
and it doesn't have a happy ending, I appreciate it that much more, right? So like this doesn't have a very happy ending. Everybody just kind of goes their own way at the end. um But in the in the in the show, they they really kind of did give it a little bit of that
01:38:21
Speaker
good feeling in a different way with them, like with the Dudley's being able to go and visit their daughter who had died in the house and her ghost was stuck there. um And then the the house was then seen as a sanctuary is like a place to house the spirits instead of the terror that it was the rest of the series.
01:38:45
Speaker
So
01:38:48
Speaker
i think my get yeah I think my favorite moment of the show, if I had to name one, was probably, I think it's the last episode, Nell's monologue that she gives, um like where she's talking about moments as if they're like confetti.
01:39:08
Speaker
um ah just
01:39:11
Speaker
I'm getting goosebumps and I'm trying not to get emotional right now, but every time every time I hear it, I love it. I love it so much. An honor I mentioned would be the car scene, the car scare. I thought that was a great moment. Brilliant, yeah.
01:39:28
Speaker
but Yeah, I love the show. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, you go ahead. You were first. Try remember what we were going to say. Did this rewatch?
01:39:43
Speaker
elevate it for you at all. I'm not going to ask you get because we, I think we need to get through all of them first, but it did it did that for you. It did. And I think I might even place it higher than blind manner, but I might, I reserve the right to change that after we go through blind manner. Um, but I think because everything was so thoughtful and intentional, there was no wasted space.
01:40:08
Speaker
in any of the episodes, everything was on purpose down to the details that we don't even notice all the hidden ghosts that other people did the work for to notice all of those, even the the the one that I pointed out that you you know didn't see till I pointed it out on the show. That was a favorite moment of mine, your reaction to that that was yeah to that live on air. That was great. um but everything was like so Not everything was explained, which I appreciate that because we can infer our own meaning to those things, but everything was intentional. Nothing was put in there just for the sake of a jump scare, just for the sake of a ah something being spooky. just
01:40:49
Speaker
Uh, it wasn't lazy, which I like. So yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to move on to haunting of blind manner because it has been years since I've seen it. And I think I only saw it once. No, I lied. I watched it two times because I showed Jacqueline it as well. Um,
01:41:14
Speaker
but i'm I'm very excited to return to it. I've had a lot of fun with Hill House, but it's time to move on. I'm going to miss it. and i miss like I even miss Midnight Mass. Not Midnight Mass. Yikes. Midnight Club. I do miss Midnight Mass, but it's coming and come It's coming up. come I'm so excited. I miss Midnight Club. It's fun. I'm okay to leave it behind.
01:41:41
Speaker
It was fun for what it was. Oh, that show I was watching last night, Evil, there's they referenced they referenced the shows in that in that episode. So the main characters show up to this like apartment and to investigate something paranormal, right? And they're like, you want to join us for a watch party? We're watching. What was it? I got to get it right. The Haunting of Midnight Mask Club.
01:42:11
Speaker
He took like all three shows and just like meshed it together. That's funny. It was funny. But yeah, Bly Manor, I think is a better, is a really good ghost story, which that's why I liked it. um And it was creepy. It was scary. But as far as like deep and meaningful, I don't think it's as impactful as Haunting of Hill House.
01:42:37
Speaker
No, it definitely, in it's some public reception, it's people like Hill House more than they do Bly Manor. Right. Bly Manor was a simple story. It was like a classic ghost story, but just which I liked. Yeah. Well, stick around if you're excited for that. um Please, please stick around to our friends over in France. Belgium.
01:43:04
Speaker
Australia can kick it because you abandoned us already. but yep um and I'm very excited to move on, even if it's just to get one step closer to midnight mass. Anyway. And if you share if you guys share our show, understand that like the beginning is rough. And if you think we get better as we go along, please use that as a precursor to somebody listening to us because
01:43:32
Speaker
I'm an all or nothing. like If I don't do it perfect, I hate it. so But i ah I understand now that there's progression, there's learning curves. So without that- I feel like maybe I haven't gotten any better. Stop it. You've been fine. Hopefully you're carrying me. and No, I think it's the other way around.
01:44:00
Speaker
Well, join us next season as we go through Bly Manor. We would love to hear what some of your favorite moments of the show were, um as well as some of the favorite moments from the podcast. If if there are any any moments that you enjoyed, anything ah that we say, any funny moments, yeah. Submit any quotes for a t-shirt. We will make that happen. Yeah. Maybe maybe we can get merch if we get a good amount of listeners.
01:44:26
Speaker
don't even know what reason we would have a Patreon, a much less merch, but you never know. yeah We never know know. Maybe we'll get like thousands of listeners and we can get a Patreon. I don't know what we'll put on there, but we'll see. That would be way too big for my britches, I think. I will go with the flow.
01:44:48
Speaker
yeah We'll see where it takes us, but we appreciate everyone who's having he's gone through with us. Really, too. I think the lowest number of views on each episode is 10.
01:45:01
Speaker
Yeah. At least we have listeners. I am so thankful. You guys are so awesome. yeah And if and i so it's more people than family so because I know like none of my family is. Which is fine.
Podcasting Experience and Future Plans
01:45:17
Speaker
you' werere You were asking me a question. if I like don't remember. Do I share? I'm sorry.
01:45:25
Speaker
Oh, people with people in real life. Like do you when people say, what are your hobbies? or Do you ever say, oh, I have a podcast because I don't.
01:45:36
Speaker
People don't really ask me what my hobbies are too much. But I do share it on social media. When you're going into a new job, people are going to try to get to know you. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
01:45:49
Speaker
um I i do have gone on some YouTube shows. I promoted them on there, so I guess I'll promote the shows here as well. um but
01:46:01
Speaker
If you can't tell, the show is just for us. This is just for you and me to hear ourselves talk about silly things.
01:46:13
Speaker
Uh, the YouTube channel, which is my whole goal. ah Yeah, goal exactly. It's showing for YouTube channel. Uh, it's, uh, TMG entertainment and the most recent thing that I recorded. I don't think it's up yet, but we, I did a top 11, um, directorial debuts of the 2020s so far. Cool. And the some of the best ones. Um, so there's that kind of system where it's like the top 11 ranking. I don't know why he chose.
01:46:43
Speaker
11. I went on with Aaron. yeah ah he's ah He's a host. His name is Aaron. um but he he does that kind of thing as well as there's like movie debates on that channel as well. There's a whole bunch of different kind kinds of videos there. um So if again, if you like film, if you like that kind of stuff, go check them out. And I appear occasionally. um They are longer videos, so be be prepared for that. But I i shouted this podcast out went the last time it went on, his episode. So oh nice I figured I should shout out his stuff right here too.
01:47:18
Speaker
just with the precursor that it gets better. So like, I feel like a lot of people are hitting the first and second episode of Midnight Club and they're like, what the heck is this? These people don't know what they're doing. You're like, I didn't, but we're hitting our groove. um So yeah. I also have my other podcast. I haven't done anything with it in years. Um, I have a promise, not a promise. I have a hope that I will, but I can't make any promises. Life gets busy, man. It's understandable. Yeah. And I'm, I'm thinking about maybe restructuring it anyway and changing it. So we'll see. Looking forward to it. Very cool. Let me know if you want me back. Of course. Absolutely.
01:48:07
Speaker
I don't know. I've had enough of you on this podcast. I can't do any more.
01:48:20
Speaker
ah Okay. I think it's time for goodbye. bre i think it's time for go All right.