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Episode 10: Silence Lay Steadily
20 Plays6 months ago
"Hill House itself, not sane, stood against its hills, holding darkness within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more. Within, its walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone."
- Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Background
00:00:02
Speaker
It's time for House on the Hill. What? It's haunted. Do you mean the haunting of a hill house? Exactly. Let's go.
00:00:55
Speaker
Welcome back, everyone, to Fans of Flanagan. I'm Noah. And I'm Laura. And this week we are finishing out Haunting of Hill House with episode 10. Silence. I believe it's done.
00:01:12
Speaker
Wow. I can't believe this is like it for the episodes. This is the first ah first series that got me onto Mike Flanagan, which I'm sure it has for a lot of other people as well.
00:01:30
Speaker
but I just have a special place in my heart for it and to already be done with it. I'm so sad, but I'm still so excited.
Reluctance to Conclude Series
00:01:41
Speaker
I asked Corey if he would watch it with me today and he said, no, said why not? He said, I don't want it to be over.
00:01:51
Speaker
ah's like
00:01:55
Speaker
But we did, we watched, I watched it last week and then I watched it again today with him just a few hours ago and he's like, okay, when's the next season coming out? He's like, oh, poor thing. Poor guy. Who's gonna tell him? This usually isn't his kind of thing that he watches, but I think he really enjoyed it. That's good. Like the less he talks, the more I know he's liking it. So.
00:02:23
Speaker
Well, before we get into the actual episode, Laura, what have you been watching?
Streaming Services and Show Preferences
00:02:29
Speaker
I watched a Netflix show that has Will Forte in it. You remember Will Forte from Saturday Night Live and Last Man on Earth? A little bit, yes.
00:02:42
Speaker
He was in a short series. There's only seven episodes called bodkin it's about the podcasters that go to, is it Ireland.
00:02:57
Speaker
to just like kind of talk about this mystery and then it like twists into something else. And I was kind of expecting a little more from it. I didn't dislike it, but I'm like not excited about it. So it's a, it's a, it's a fun watch, but not anything like,
00:03:16
Speaker
I don't know. You know what I mean? um Not anything like extraordinary, but I did, I did have fun. And then on Apple TV,
00:03:29
Speaker
a Dark Matter, it's only dropping one episode per week, but I'm starting to really like it. It's about, uh, like dimension jumping. Oh, that sounds fun. It is. It is. And if you ever decide to get Apple TV, I have some shows that you will really, really like. So.
00:03:54
Speaker
I'll have to probably alternate between that and HBO because exactly it's just so expensive. When you get bored of Macs, you can try out Apple TV. Yeah. Well, I'm going to have to renew it soon because I would like to watch House of Dragon and that's going to be dropping soon. Oh, I thought that that's coming up soon, isn't it? Yeah.
00:04:21
Speaker
And then the boy season four is going to be coming out soon. That's on prime. So it's different. I don't know if you've ever seen that. I don't think you would enjoy it. I I may. Sorry, that was that was an involuntary noise.
00:04:39
Speaker
It's like I'm right or something. I think you're I made it through season one and then I don't know how many episodes. I don't know with with a lot of trauma because I did not make it many episodes into season two before I was like, no, I can't do this city anymore. And then based on the memes that other people share and post and that I come across, I'm i'm glad I didn't continue in that because oh my gosh. Yeah. It's twisted. It's not for everybody.
00:05:19
Speaker
It really shouldn't be for anybody, but here we are. Well, sorry, Laura. Gee. I'm disappointed in you. I know. Sorry, my parents are very disappointed. What's another person?
00:05:39
Speaker
I love you, Mom and Dad. I'm not serious.
Podcast Audience Insights
00:05:44
Speaker
How many Utah downloads do you have? You can figure out if you listen to it. Recently, just mine. So they haven't even listened to me.
00:05:56
Speaker
um well it's not really interesting if they're not watching these shows and i don't think they are that that's just a guess but to my parents' credit that is what my dad said and i was like that's totally fair no that's totally fair yeah i would i would be like i think i even said this in the episode i just published like why would you be listening to us if you're you're you're welcome to where you're you're welcome to be here but like i don't understand how it would be interesting, but we do have like a solid eight download per episode fault. Like so far big numbers right there. it's so Seriously. Like we're retaining at least eight people. So I appreciate all if it's, if you're not downloading any of them, that means there are seven others beside me.
00:06:46
Speaker
Listen, but spit out your root beer.
00:06:52
Speaker
I've already tried. I've already tried to make excuses for myself. Was it last week? Yeah, I think so. I don't think I've even finished.
00:07:04
Speaker
um Was it midnight club? I don't think I've been able to get through all of it. I'll have to go back. Yeah, and just rip the band aid off. Yeah, but you do a good job. So don't worry about it.
00:07:20
Speaker
Maybe it's the voice thing, you know, like listening yourself on a phone call or something. I guess just try not to think of it as it it being you and then it won't, bother it won't bother you so much. So, um, okay.
00:07:42
Speaker
Um, I have random recommendations and then you can talk about what your, watching or reading or anything else. So I have a show and a movie. There's a show on Netflix called maniac. It's got Emma Stone, Jonah Hill and a bunch of other big names and you're giving me the thumbs up that Oh, absolutely. Such a weird offbeat show. But it's
00:08:14
Speaker
it's You don't know what's going on, but you have to keep watching kind of show. Yes. And I haven't seen it in years, but that's how I felt. I haven't either, but it came across, it came across my recommendations and I was like, Oh, yes, that one is good. And then, uh, the movie, Davey stuff.
00:08:36
Speaker
please He I'm not kidding. He likes to bite the edge of the water bowl and like lift it up. I don't know why he does that, but it makes a mess. We used to have this cat water fountain, like a pet fountain that my dog is small enough to use.
Pet Stories and Household Humor
00:08:52
Speaker
Just it keeps fresh water, like circulating with a filter and he would tip it over as a kitten.
00:09:00
Speaker
That's when you toss them out on the street. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I have two cats. I couldn't bird. Yeah. He stresses everybody out in the house, but it would make me so sad if he had to live with someone else. We'll see. I'm trying my best to hold on to him. Anyway, the movie back back to the movie.
00:09:27
Speaker
that popped into my head because it's so unhinged, but it's so good. Is cowboys and aliens?
00:09:37
Speaker
You've seen it, yes? Yes. Do you love it? No. I'm shocked. It's so good. So I used to be really into
Critiquing Female-Led Movies
00:09:59
Speaker
geek movie trivia is what it was called. And there, and there was, it was, this was an actual YouTube channel. It was called the Schmodown. And it was a bunch of these people who would compete in movie trivia. You can look up that they still have the videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a super long time ago. Okay. Yeah. Um, but they did have a whole bunch of families that branched out from that. And people just wanting to do it just for fun, you know,
00:10:30
Speaker
And I was one of those people and Cowboys and Aliens was one of the movies that we had to watch. And I watched it just so I could take the notes on it and make sure I could do well in one of the matches. You watched it on business. You got to go back and watch it on pleasure because, okay, here's the thing. It starts out as a Western, right? Harrison Ford, Daniel Craig. This is my point.
00:10:59
Speaker
Imagine sitting in the room where they pitch this script or at this idea.
00:11:09
Speaker
I just don't get how they get Harrison Ford to sign on to it. Because it's a good movie and I will die on this hill. It is a good movie. Maybe it's not a perfect movie, but it was fun. It was a fun, entertaining time.
00:11:28
Speaker
Well, it was definitely better than the movie that I watched. So they took the dumbest concept. An alien invasion in a Western town back in the day, but they made it work and it was so good. Please go watch it. Just like, just to, just to enjoy it. Don't just for fun anymore. Just for fun. Don't have any expectations. Maybe I'll subjugate. just watch your She might like it.
00:11:59
Speaker
We'll see. You're so snobby.
00:12:04
Speaker
Hey, the bio of my Twitter says, I claim to be a film student, but I hate 2001 of Space Odyssey. So I think that works in my favor of not being snobby.
00:12:30
Speaker
But I think you're a little bit right. a
00:12:44
Speaker
care That movie is boring, though. Oh, it's so boring. I hate it. OK. Well, I won't watch it again. Let me ask you this and then we'll get back on topic. What did you think? Tree of Life with Brad Pitt.
00:12:59
Speaker
I really want to watch it. I haven't seen it yet. I really want to watch it though. Okay. It comes up and and at a bunch of my like the Instagram movie pages that I follow. Okay. Tell me so as soon as you watch it, I want to hear your feedback. All right. Let me put it on my Safari pages because then I won't forget to watch it. Yeah.
00:13:24
Speaker
Watch it as soon as you can, because I think this will give us a nice baseline on where we align on other things. Perfect. It's on a Hulu. Yes. All right. Just make sure you're not too tired when you start it, and it's not late in the day. I won't.
00:13:47
Speaker
Anyway, um the movie that I watched, you don't need any brain for, really.
00:13:56
Speaker
I refused to watch Madam Web in theaters because it looked horrible. You did not.
00:14:04
Speaker
It's on Netflix. I know for Netflix. I looked at Jacqueline because today we were doing nothing. I was like, hey, how do you feel about hate watching this movie? We only have so much time in our lives.
00:14:27
Speaker
And I knew you were going this its direction. There's moments and hours and minutes and days you can't get back. And that's how you chose to use today. I'm going to go get my potatoes out of the oven.
00:14:44
Speaker
Just doing a little dinner prep for tomorrow. You go ahead, I'll hear you. And you tell us your mini breakdown. You have until I take potatoes out of the oven to explain your thoughts on and and justifications for watching this. I feel like I have decent justifications because it's such a bad movie that you need to watch it so you can hate watch it with somebody.
00:15:13
Speaker
and just have fun tearing it to pieces and looking at each other with confused faces going, what the heck are we just watching right now? I did the same thing when Emoji Movie came out with my brother and we happened to be in an empty theater. It was one of the best theater going experiences in my life because we were just in there cracking each other up, laughing, ripping the movie apart. Obviously, we didn't like the movie, but we just watched it to have a good time. And that's why we watched it.
00:15:42
Speaker
Not because we didn't think it was gonna be fun or enjoyable, but because it was gonna be so bad that we were gonna laugh at it. That's why we watched it. And do you still feel good about that decision now? No, honestly, I don't. It was a waste of my time.
00:16:05
Speaker
Listen.
00:16:11
Speaker
i i I read the last three Twilight books, ironically, and subsequently watched all of the movies. I hate watched all of the movies.
00:16:28
Speaker
So I understand that point of view of going and knowing that you're just gonna hate it and have a good time doing that because I get it. And even I'm not watching.
00:16:42
Speaker
I if love that. If anything, it made me more confident to pursue my dream, because if Hollywood could employ those writers, then I should be willing to write something that's a little bit better than that. I'm pretty sure my 11 year old could.
00:17:08
Speaker
I hope so.
00:17:12
Speaker
Goodness. um i This is a theory that I have. Hollywood hates women. hate for I enjoyed the Captain Marvel movie, honestly. like I didn't like it as much as a lot of the other MCU movies.
00:17:31
Speaker
But I liked it. I didn't hate it. Right. But then it just everybody else was like, this is terrible. And this is why this is why. And then it was like, Madam Web is like an obligatory, let's just put it out there kind of a movie. I don't know. They they know how to make good movies. So.
00:17:54
Speaker
It's like they did it on purpose is my point. They did it as badly on purpose. And that's what makes me angry. is that That's how it feels. Yeah. When it comes to that subject or that topic, Marvel movies have not done a great job in general when it comes to female portrayal. That's my point. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. There's a reason a lot of people just think the the the the women Avengers moment in endgame when they all kind of like stand for the shot and do their thing it's kind of corny and cheesy because it's not it just it doesn't feel natural no because it was forced yeah
00:18:42
Speaker
But that's in support of Madam Web. The only good thing that I will give it is that it never felt to me like it was trying too hard to be about women's empowerment. It just it had female protagonists and heroes. Yeah. um That being said, the writing was.
Controversial Shows Discussion
00:19:05
Speaker
so bad. um It was awful. But I don't think i hear the editing was just oh, editing was awful. The directing was lazy. The writing was bad. The dialogue was bad. There was just nothing very redeemable about it at all. No. um That's what makes me sad because like Madam Web is an iconic character in Spider-Man and X-Men.
00:19:32
Speaker
And they they just they did her dirty. And poor um like what's her name? Dakota Johnson. I think she's a great actress. She's.
00:19:45
Speaker
And that that's what they did. The only other one I know is Sydney Sweeney. And I don't think she's a good actress, but that's my.
00:20:03
Speaker
Cause now I gotta, yeah, but I didn't watch that show. I wonder how would you feel about that one? I've seen clips. I feel it's creepy and pedophilia leaning. Sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
00:20:29
Speaker
Like I'm sorry, it's too much adult content about high schoolers. That's creepy to me. yeah I'm trying to find something with Sydney Sweeney that I have seen because I know I've seen her. Oh, she was in White Lotus. I didn't hate her in White Lotus. Have we talked about White Lotus? We have not.
00:20:52
Speaker
What a show. and Yeah. I, I, we could break it down. I don't know, but there's things I liked and didn't like about it. Yeah. We'll have to say that for the, the white Lotus podcast. you Yeah, I'm good. I'm good.
00:21:16
Speaker
anyway I, the only thing that I was like mad about is they have Jennifer Coolidge, right? Iconic, gorgeous. And they turned her into a caricature.
00:21:29
Speaker
Her character was so over the top and annoying and they did kill her off in a spectacular way at the end. Spoilers. If you haven't seen it by now, you don't want to. Yeah, that's true.
00:21:44
Speaker
But the, you know, the way they kill her off at the end was super cool.
00:21:52
Speaker
But it was such an unrealistic character. Like, I'm like, nobody, nobody's acting like that. it's It's a caricature of the person they're trying to portray her as. And I didn't like that. It just took me out of the story a little too much.
00:22:11
Speaker
that That one was another weird show that you just can't stop watching. Yeah. Pretty much. By the time I started it, both seasons were out. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. The show that we are currently talking about. No, I don't have anything else. Did you want to talk about any books or are we just kind of eating up time?
00:22:32
Speaker
Um, I'll briefly mention, mention the books. I finished listening because I didn't read it. I listened to Tresser of the Emerald Sea because I'm going through a Cosmere binge right now.
Book Recommendations and Current Reads
00:22:44
Speaker
I finished warp reading Warbreaker. I'm currently reading the novella Edge Dancer.
00:22:52
Speaker
Because I'm taking a break from Stormlight because I want to have more Cosmere connectivity. So I understand. Are you reading that in the hard copy? Are you reading that like on a digital or listening to it on Audible? Ed's answer. Yeah, I have the heart ah hard. Is it the little one?
00:23:10
Speaker
Yeah. It's a little, one it's so cute. It was $10 and I was like, for a hardback, let's go. I was, I was at Barnes and Noble the other day and I was like looking to see if I wanted to pick anything up and I ended up picking up way of Kings in a hard copy. Ooh. Nice purchase. Yes. Cause my son will really enjoy it. So, um, and I saw the edge dancer and then the other little novella. Hmm.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, but the other novella I sent you of his the. What are they called?
00:23:46
Speaker
ah We were just talking about it. I think you. Yeah. They're really quickly learned. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, we were talking about that, but he's got. Oh, my gosh, sorry.
00:24:09
Speaker
Skyward. No, no, they're like two novellas, like one in a sequel and they're just on their own, but they are so good. Yikes.
00:24:26
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not sure. That's OK. Legion Legion. Oh, yeah. yeah Really fun. OK. Really fun. And they're quick Legion and then Legion skin deep. I'll let you go and blind to those. Cause that's part of the fun. Cause you're like, what? i I've got to finish the Cosmere first because that's how my brain works. When I start something, I have to finish it. So I've got to do all the Cosmere stuff and then I'll probably branch out to other standards. Just keep it on your list. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:03
Speaker
Um, but that's it for me. I don't know if you have anything else. I'm not reading anything exciting. I'm listening to fairy tale again by Stephen King. Ooh, that's on my list. Yeah. Is it a good one?
00:25:19
Speaker
I liked it. I looked it up on Goodreads and it had bad reviews. People did not like the story. I don't know how. Maybe if you like, like Stephen King and you don't like fantasy, then you're going to hate it, I guess. But if you like fantasy, it's Stephen King fantasy book. So.
00:25:41
Speaker
I do really need to read more of his books as well. I know he keeps, yeah he's another one of those writers that just keeps putting out books. And I know I'm never gonna get to all of them, but. No, I don't even know if every single one is worth reading, but um I read The Shining. I won't read it.
00:26:09
Speaker
My dad swears by the stand and I need to read it. The stand, I saw the mini series, and if it's pretty true to the book, then then that's a really good one. Yeah. um There was one that really messed me up. Can't remember what it's called. But it's about a woman like escaping her abusive husband. Oh, lovely. Oh, it was something else. But anyway, anyway.
00:26:39
Speaker
Anyway, I'm trying to like get through my other audible list books and I keep like starting and quitting things. So.
00:26:52
Speaker
Well, that's, that's pretty much it for me. I don't have anything else. Yeah. So you guys can tell me if anyone wants to jump in the chat on Instagram, I have Verity downloaded.
00:27:04
Speaker
Uh, the girl who wasn't there, that one was recommended by audible, the maid's diary, the light that blinds us. I actually got through a couple chapters of that one. Um,
00:27:19
Speaker
and then a whole bunch of Dean Kuntz, cause I really liked Dean Kuntz. Like really, really. I have a couple of him. Odd Thomas ah thomas is one is a must read.
00:27:32
Speaker
All Thomas is an absolute must read and then watch the movie. You won't be disappointed. I have watchers from him. It's on there. I feel like I have something else from him.
00:27:49
Speaker
Innocence is really good. That one's another weird one, but it was I really enjoyed that one. Yeah. Again, too much to read too little time. Exactly.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yep. OK, I'm ready. You ready, Laura? Awesome. Let's go. Let's go. So this week, we are talking about episode 10, Silence Lay, Steadily. And obviously, it's going to be directed by Mike Flanagan himself.
Haunting of Hill House Finale Analysis
00:28:20
Speaker
I don't have any jump scares. Nope. I didn't count any of them. I don't think I had any for this episode. um This one's a lot more emotional. Did for last episode?
00:28:34
Speaker
I think we had one. Nice. We had one. This one, obviously, is going to have a lot less jump scares than Midnight Club did. Right. Again, because that one, focus it was towards a different audience. and so Right.
00:28:58
Speaker
It was more of a conventional horror type. Yeah. But there kind of was one, but it was like a repeat of episode eight when Luke goes into the house and he's trying to burn it. And then what's her face comes up behind him and grabs him. That's kind of a jump scare. And they repeat that scene in this episode. I didn't really count it because we already knew it was coming. I didn't either. yet So, yeah, we I mean, we could, but I just I don't feel the need to know. I agree.
00:29:27
Speaker
Um, we open the episode with a familiar scene with young Shirley and now trying to get that red room open. And then it's in this scene that it's revealed to us that this room has been, that the red room has been their different rooms the entire time. Um, and Theo was in that room when, when Shirley was trying to get into it. Um,
00:30:00
Speaker
And then Steve is having this sort of future vision. we're We're not really quite sure what's going on, but we were thrust into into this vision of of Steve. yeah It's like a, it's like a flash forward.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. It seems like it's and right after the events of what's going on and he's writing about it. It seems like it's ah like been enough time for him to be ready to write about it because yeah his wife is like heavily pregnant. Yeah. And so it feels like the time has gone by. And they're together. So you know that. Wait, wait a minute. What's going on here? Yeah. um And then he mentions to her that they just got to the house and then we see it in person and Steve and you get to the house in the present. Steve sees the tall man with the cane and the moment he comes up behind him.
00:31:01
Speaker
and He walks in front of Steve and he was like, look at me. Don't look, look at, just look at me. And the man just looks, stares down. It's not a jump scare, but no. Wow. It's an amazing shot. It's so, so terrifying. And with the information that we learn in this episode,
00:31:28
Speaker
I have a whole lot of backstory on these characters, by the way. um So I hope you're ready for that. Okay, I will get it ready.
00:31:41
Speaker
Knowing who this is makes it very, very creepy.
00:31:51
Speaker
And it doesn't help that we know who it is because if he's related to Poppy, I'm just talking myself in circles at this point. I was, I don't know where I was going with that one. I don't know either. I'm a little, I'm a little lost. So well we'll get there. We'll get, we'll get there. I'll bring you back around the tall man. The tall man. Yeah. Is he the grandpa? No. Is he the dad?
00:32:16
Speaker
from like Poppy's family or who she does that little riddle kind of poem later on and she talks about like the family. Is he in that family?
00:32:28
Speaker
I don't I don't know if it if he was in that little poem that she gave. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. All right. Okay. that i I didn't do as much research into that one. But no, I love it. Let's go.
00:32:46
Speaker
And then it goes to the present or not the present, though this weird future vision. And Lee goes on this weird tirade about Steve being an eater and that no one is real to him until he writes them until he eats them and spits them back out.
00:33:03
Speaker
It's it's this really well, it's a really good monologue. And if you haven't rewatched this episode lately, I would recommend you go back and rewatch it, um especially considering we know that actress now. but I mean, this is the first time we were introduced to her. And yeah I for some reason just didn't connect the dots when I saw Midnight Mass. She really got my attention in Midnight Mass because of how good her performance was and subtle and micro expressions and you could see like her wheels churning in the situations during midnight mass, right? Because a lot happens right in front of her and she just kind of, I don't need to delve into it too much, but like you can see when she like figures it out and then shifts anyway.
00:33:52
Speaker
So when I see her in this show, I'm like, Oh, she's such a side character. It doesn't do her justice. So we're watching it this time, seeing her get to do this like Flanagan monologue. Right. And that like, I'm like, Oh, there she is. Glad she got like this moment in this series, because there she is. It's so good. It's such a good model. Great.
00:34:19
Speaker
I don't have it pulled up. You're an eater, Steve. You're an eater. And the way she just delivers all those lines, it's just perfect. I'm at crescendos and she just gets more intense and dramatic. I cannot wait until we get to Midnight Mask to talk about her specifically. Anyway. She made the show in a lot of ways. She really did.
00:34:49
Speaker
Nell appears as um this sort of guardian ghost and she touches Steve's forehead and wakes him up and he's the in the red room with everybody else. Oh, so creepy when she like turned into the blueberry zombie.
00:35:10
Speaker
And her words were so scary. yes very and she would you lose your mind Like your mother. Oh my gosh. Personal attack right there. Yeah. Yeah. I think she's an eater too, just like your father. Yeah. And then she says something, if if she explodes or something, would you lose your mind? And then she pauses like your mother.
00:35:37
Speaker
o So personal. That's what makes it so scary.
00:35:44
Speaker
Anyway, we switch over to Luke back when he was trying to go through rehab. His friend and is in this vision with him. I honestly forgot the friend's name. I don't know if you remembered it. Because it was it was it like Joey or something. It was kind of like a something like that. A short name. Yeah. It was so far ago, I can't remember anymore.
00:36:11
Speaker
It was probably not that many episodes, but like, when did we start watching like in November or December? And now it's for posterity. It's May 25th. We were busy for a little bit there, so if we had to skip a couple weeks. Honestly, we got through these faster than we did Midnight Club, so I'm kind of fine. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
00:36:36
Speaker
Go ahead. I'm going to find her character name. No worries. Um, but she gets a hotel room and she see, she says they need to get well before they get clean. Just like Luke had said previously in the series. And she shoots up right then and there and says that you'll have a Neil in his arm eventually. The door to the room closes and darkness. Oh, wait, wait. I'm getting way ahead of myself. Yeah. you um That's okay.
00:37:08
Speaker
I'm not the best note-taker. Yeah, she was called Joey. I got it right. Joey, look at that. Nice. um She says that he will have a needle in his arm eventually. And I think in the vision, he looks over and sees the needle in his arm. Yeah, he's like, no, I want, I want. And she's like, you already did. Yeah. The slow terror in these scenes is just perfect. Yeah, even though we don't have any jump scares, it's perfectly scary.
00:37:38
Speaker
Did you notice like there's things in the scenes that are inconsistent like the continuity is messed up like in one shot. She's sitting on kind of the more right edge of the bed. And then it flips to Luke and then it flips back to her and then she's kind of more on the left side of the bed.
00:37:56
Speaker
I just barely noticed that when we watched it today. And I was like that those just these little clues that what they're seeing aren't memories. They're contrived. Just genius. Interesting. Yeah. Another reason why Flanagan's the goat.
00:38:15
Speaker
Sorry, that's a young prison term. I'll try not to. I know what it means. I'm not that hopeless. I know what goat means.
00:38:26
Speaker
um But then we flash to the real present, and Luke is on the floor with a needle in his arm. And it looks like it's the rat poison that was injected straight in his arm.
00:38:43
Speaker
um
00:38:46
Speaker
Steve and Hugh get to the red room. The door opens for Steve and Steve is able to walk in, but then oh the door closes for Hugh and Hugh tries to get close and darkness spreads from the door to Hugh and he passes out and just falls asleep.
00:39:09
Speaker
Shirley and Theo then get to the house. Shirley gets distracted by the phantom man with the glass that she constantly sees, and Theo gets knocked out.
00:39:24
Speaker
Then we see from Theo's perspective, and she's at a bar in a hotel, we assume for a conference and a guy orders her a drink, but she says she's married and play points to her ring. And I almost dropped off my notes.
00:39:44
Speaker
ah
00:39:47
Speaker
And instead of maybe doing the right thing and having the bartender throw it out or dump the drink, she orders him an appetizer, which is one of the weirdest things apparently to them that you can order somebody.
00:40:08
Speaker
Well, not just that it was an appetizer. She said what's, it was cute. She said, what's the weirdest thing that nobody orders on the menu. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
And it ends up being an appetizer sent to him. The weird appetizer, like the various things on it. It looked like chicken wings. It was like chicken wings and like other things too. Yeah. I don't understand how that was weird. I mean, that's free food. Why would, why would that be weird? Take like eat it. That's free food right there. Come on now. But he uses it as an excuse to go up and talk to her.
00:40:50
Speaker
And she says, don't try anything funny. Keep it strictly professional, strictly about, was it embalming or something like that? Embalming. Yeah. And he says, okay, well, I'm not going to try anything funny. You're not going to do anything. Yeah. And they ended up talking for the rest of the night and he ends up asking if she wants to have a nightcap back in his room. And then she says,
00:41:21
Speaker
You, you were doing so good up until that moment. And then he messed up. And then the guy says, but that's not really, you really said, is it letting us know that it's just a vision. And it's revealed that she did say yes to the guy and she went up to his room with him. And we assumed that she cheated with him. That is very heavily implied and then confirmed later.
00:41:52
Speaker
Correct.
00:41:58
Speaker
And then she ends up being at her own funeral and she's being told that she's awful and that she's just filled with awful things. I think i can't remember the entire monologue. it was There's a lot lot of monologues in this episode.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, if I hadn't had just watched it, I would have completely forgotten most of the details, but it's like the whoever the funeral director is for her funeral in this, you know, imagined scene. He like details what he did to the body and said, and the last thing he said was that I wired the jaw shut so she can't scream.
00:42:46
Speaker
That's not creepy at all. Oh, so creepy. But and he said well appears. Sorry, go ahead. No, it's fine. No, no, you say I interrupted. Well, he just he had he had said something about like covering the rot. But inside is. Yeah, right. I think. um And then like when she gets to the casket, the corpse sits up. Super creepy.
00:43:13
Speaker
super creepy like pulls at her face oh excuse me pulls at her face and it's ugly and gross scary well just those images i just for some reason i'm i usually am good about that kind of stuff you know like bodily horror but there's just i don't know there's something about it it's disturbing truly
00:43:40
Speaker
But now is there and she wakes Shirley up and Shirley sees, was it Luke on the ground? Was it Shirley or Theo? I think it was Shirley who was first. Steve was first. Oh yeah. And then he goes to help Luke and Shirley goes to help him, I guess. Yeah. But then.
00:44:06
Speaker
Now it's Theo's turn to have some weird vision. And in hers, she's with her fling and she's normal. She can't feel anything. And her fling tells her a story. Fear, and this is very important by the way, fear and guilt are sisters. This man knew them both and they drove him mad. So he built a wall to keep them out, but they were in there with him. Does that sound familiar at all?
00:44:38
Speaker
Is that what she was telling the little girl?
00:44:42
Speaker
Sort of? In the therapy session? No, no, no, no. So, well, she talked about walls. So, who is the one that is creating these visions for the kids? Poppy. Poppy. Yeah. Now, who could she to be talking about?
00:45:04
Speaker
You're asking a lot of me this late in the day. You're right. I'm so sorry. So she's talking about her husband, her husband, William. They met. Okay. The Usain asylum. He's the body that he found because he was driven mad by guilt and by fear because he had affairs with other women because he was a flirt.
00:45:35
Speaker
It's implied in the in and in the series whenever Poppy first starts talking to Liv. She's like, um William, or whatever she calls her husband, is just going to love you or something like that. And he is the one. What but what body did Hugh find?
00:45:57
Speaker
Remember when um he heard scratching when with the black mole. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. The body that that brick and Yes. Scratching.
00:46:11
Speaker
um
00:46:15
Speaker
This is exactly what and in Theo's vision, this is what is being talked about. Building a literal wall. Fear and guilt are sisters. This man knew them both and they drove him mad. So he built a wall to keep them out, but they were in there with him. It's the body of the wall. And he felt no fear and guilt made him feel so small that when he woke up, he was tall.
00:46:48
Speaker
There it is. There it is.
00:46:58
Speaker
Cool. Wow. The tall man. This is all my fourth rewatch that I'm catching all of this. Nice words. Nice. Yeah. Good job. And this is, this is, I love, this is why I love when there are good writers and good directors, because it makes finding these Easter eggs and these little details and picking them out so much more, so much fun. And the rewatch ability is so good. I am so excited to see like what material has come from the original book. Oh yeah.
00:47:37
Speaker
That's gonna be, that's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah. I'm excited for that. Yeah. Anyway, Theo wakes up and the rest of the kids are trying to save Luke. So she goes to save them.
00:47:53
Speaker
And then we get another Luke perspective and he wakes up in a white red room, if that makes sense. The entire room is white, completely white. And it's Nell, Liv, and Abigail. Nell is a little girl, are there. And Liv ecstatically says, he's finally awake. And i I just wanted to point out that Luke, with not being an addict, just looks so good.
00:48:22
Speaker
He's so handsome. He's so handsome. I mean, I mean i knew he was in a blind manner, like the actor, but he just, after seeing him so long, looked so disheveled and so rough. Yeah. Yeah. It's and just looks so good. He finally gets that moment where he's like, yeah, I look good.
00:48:42
Speaker
ah Yeah, not because that's his perspective in the episode, but like as an actor, I'm sure it's nice to look cleaned up and like, yeah, this is how I am. Yeah. Yeah. it's so awful little I'm not this scruffy and messy and in pain and a druggy.
Character and Actor Insights
00:49:00
Speaker
So the the actress, the actress that plays in um
00:49:12
Speaker
I keep saying House of Dragons in my head, but it's a Game of Thrones. She plays. um She's the tall woman. You can't remember the character name. But she's the one that's like a knight. Oh, Brianne. Brianne. Yeah, Brianne. The woman that plays Brianne was in Wednesday.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, Gwendolyn Christie. And watching her talk about being in, this is so off topic, but like that's where my brain goes. So here we are. In Wednesday, when she was you know going through her promotion circuit, she was talking about how excited she was to just be able to wear pretty clothes and look put together and feel pretty.
00:50:05
Speaker
as a character instead of always being looked at as more masculine or dirty or like, you know, whatever she went through in Game of Thrones, that character and like other characters that she's played, she's never been able to feel ladylike and feminine. So I know on some level, the actor that plays Luke has to have been happy about that few minute scene where he gets to look real nice and put together. If I'm wrong.
00:50:33
Speaker
i'm wrong but that's that's my that's my running theory here is that that that scene was nice he'll be our guest on our podcast and we can ask him hey how'd you feel when you got you gonna reach out to his management yeah oh absolutely yeah yeah for free ah for for
00:50:55
Speaker
No, Mike Flanagan is just gonna like hear us and love our perspective and then come on himself and then that'll bring the rest of them. Absolutely. So it's gonna be famous. And then that's it. That's the rest of our life. Just for this the end. Yeah. What a dream. Anyway.
00:51:15
Speaker
um
00:51:18
Speaker
But Young Nell is telling Luke to leave, like, don't leave, go, that kind of thing. And. Right. um Because Liv is keep she keeps inviting him to the tea party and they're going to wear their big boy hats and then everybody's wearing a bowler hat and he's getting freaked out and little baby Nell is like, don't do it. No. Run away. Yeah.
00:51:43
Speaker
yeah
00:51:46
Speaker
and Luke says that he doesn't want to be here but oh this this part was rough um Luke says he doesn't want to be here but Liv says yes he does because he's been knocking on the door for years that had broke my heart oh my gosh it was so
00:52:10
Speaker
It was so sad the years that he's been poisoning his, his, himself. She's not wrong. No. Yeah. She's like, we could hear you. But now that he's here, he really doesn't want it. Um, which I feel like I don't need to elaborate on that. It was a heavy scene in like the whole.
00:52:36
Speaker
i don't know if you want to call it symbolism because it was pretty cut and dry that if he sat down at the tea party that means he was accepting death and that he was gonna die and lives like insistence that he just join them and that it's better and that you'll be safe and everything will be happy and fine and you'll be awake which was her goal you know towards the end of her life was to keep them frozen in that state you know you won't have to go through the hardships of life she still has that perspective in her afterlife which is wild to me there's so much in that oh my gosh i love i love this show so much i loved her i loved her flanigan monologue too
00:53:30
Speaker
when she was like talking to before she's, you know, invited them to the tea party. She was talking about the house with the roses. Yeah. And she's she's just. Sorry, I call them Flanagan monologues because of Midnight Master so many monologues, but I loved every single one of them. And we're going to have to break him down. We're going to have to rank the monologue. Oh, yeah, that too.
00:54:00
Speaker
It's just heartbreaking because this is something that she believes is is good for her kids. Right. It's hard. There's no malice in her. It's not. There's intentions. It's not malicious. She's just misguided and it makes it even more. right She just wants to be with her family and her kids.
00:54:23
Speaker
And she was like, they're being taken away from her. And we'll, we'll get to that later. Cause there are more scenes. Oh, the psychology behind it. I'm ready. Um, but adult now appears and then pulls them away. And then Luke wakes up after it looks like everyone had stopped trying to save him. Um,
00:54:48
Speaker
And they're all like, Oh, what happened? Like, how did this happen? And Luke just points to now and says that she saved him and everyone else looks at her and of amazement. But she seems off, you know, she, the best way I can describe it is it she seems like a prerecorded message that yeah, not playing at the right time. Right.
00:55:15
Speaker
But then Cheryl asks a question and Nell says that she feels more clear now and that they have been in this room there their entire life or when when they were staying for that summer. And then that's like the big reveal. Oh, it was mom's reading room. It was Steve's game room. It was Luke's tree house and Theo's dance studio, that kind of thing.
00:55:44
Speaker
um
00:55:47
Speaker
And then she gives probably my favorite monologue in the series. um And it's delivered perfectly. I love Christina Petaretti. Don't sue me if I got the name wrong or the pronunciation. um But she I absolutely loved her in this series. And she does a really cool interview. I can't remember with you, with who.
00:56:15
Speaker
Um, but she delivers this monologue perfectly and I have it because I loved it. At least a part of it. She says, I thought for so, for so long that time was like a line that our moments were laid out like dominoes that they fell one into another and on it went just days tipping one into the next and a long line between the beginning and the end. But I was wrong. It's not like that at all.
00:56:45
Speaker
Our moments fall around us like rain or snow or confetti and the pure love and joy that she's radiating is infectious. And it's, it just makes me sad at the same time because she's gone and she's, she's here trying to give comfort to her siblings that are there. And
00:57:21
Speaker
She forgives them. She forgives all of them. they They all have their turn to say, I'm so sorry I wasn't there for you. I'm sorry for this. And she says, it doesn't matter. You loved me completely. And I love you the same. And that's all. The rest is confetti. My heart.
00:57:45
Speaker
how many How many times did you cry in this episode? Yeah, I don't appreciate that question. I lost count. Oh, it was. I was too many to count. I lost. Oh, it hurt. But in a good way, you know. Mm hmm.
00:58:07
Speaker
Before she's ah so she said that line, she describes the house to a body. And she says the red room is a stomach and reveals it's been a room for everybody. um It's put on different faces, so it's stayed so that the children stayed quiet while they were being digested. It's very creepy.
00:58:33
Speaker
um
00:58:37
Speaker
And she says to Luke, you have to live. And Luke doesn't know how to do this without her. And then. But she says that you won't have to. None of you have to. She's always going to be with them. And that she says the line that I said about loving them completely. I just had to put it in there because it fits so well with what we were talking about. Yeah. Do you have anything to say? Because I was going to move on to the next scene.
00:59:06
Speaker
I just loved all the little moments they had and like the closure. That's really what it was. Because I know they were just they had so much guilt.
00:59:22
Speaker
They felt like they abandoned her that they weren't there for her and like, and just the closure she was able to give them was really, it was a beautiful scene, all of that.
00:59:36
Speaker
But after this happens, Hugh wakes up and Poppy is in front of him. And she says this, the weird poem that we referenced earlier. The first was young Miss Groton. He stabbed him. He stabbed her with a corn knife. That's when his crimes began.
01:00:00
Speaker
The second was Grandma Groton. He fought him off until her strength gave out. The third was Grandpa Groton. He was strangled by wire. And the last was Baby Groton. And I don't think I have any details for that one.
01:00:18
Speaker
Um, I don't want to say it. It's a baby. That's too, I don't want to, I don't want to detail what happened to the baby. Yeah. No, I didn't do my new research and didn't look into who this could have been ghost wise that we have seen.
01:00:40
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so well, yeah, maybe when we come back for the next episode, I'll have more answers. Yeah. Cause I'm interested now cause I never even thought to do that. I think when she was talking to live about her son, I think that's the boy in the wheelchair. Oh, a hundred percent.
01:01:01
Speaker
And there's just so many details, like you were saying, like previously ah that there's little ghosts hidden throughout the whole series that you have to like meticulously go scene by scene or like shot by shot to catch all of them. And even like the bigger ones are easy to miss.
01:01:22
Speaker
There are YouTube videos where you can watch people better than me to do it. so There's YouTube videos, there's articles, there's a lot of resources to see all the all the hidden ghosts.
01:01:41
Speaker
But then Liv appears and she is Hugh's guardian and tells Poppy to stay away from him. Being very protective. but um yeah Stay away from my man. I love i love that.
01:02:00
Speaker
But Liv is still not.
01:02:05
Speaker
Perfect. and That's not the word I want to use, but she's still not right. Yeah. she's even though she is She still has that skewed perspective. Yeah. Because she is happy that everybody's home finally. Oh yeah. She's ready to keep them there. Yeah. Yeah.
Themes of Safety and Letting Go
01:02:26
Speaker
Um, and what happens afterwards is he was just trying to convince Liv that keeping the kids here is not a good idea and that he was keeping them safe this entire time and the house is dangerous and it's okay to let them go because they have to bear witness to their kids life and that nothing good will happen here and it's heartbreaking because Liv breaks down and she's like I'm just so lonely and she just wants her family to be there with her
01:03:04
Speaker
And he makes a promise to her, we don't really know what that promise is.
01:03:11
Speaker
But then he says that if it wasn't for the kids, he would have followed her here, that he would have stayed and it's, it's so sweet. And it just, it makes me Get excited for blind manner. I know we haven't really talked about blind manner as much, but it makes me excited for that because that, that one is more of a love story. Um, so it's it's just very sweet in a haunting, haunted sort of way. Um, like I said, she convinces live to open the door.
01:03:48
Speaker
And while Hugh and Steve are getting Luke out of the house, they trip over something, but they we don't see what it is. Or they I don't know. I don't think they trip over anything. I think they just see something. And I didn't even catch that. Steve just doesn't say anything when they go out of the house. And then it's flashback to that night.
01:04:16
Speaker
When Hugh comes back to Hill House after taking the kids away, he finds Liv at the bottom of the stairs, all bloody and.
01:04:27
Speaker
Dad, I don't know why it made me talk. But she's she's dead. Yeah, I like how it was like a vision for Steve. To see all of this.
01:04:44
Speaker
Yes. ah Yes. Oh, thank you for mentioning that. Um, i I totally skipped around there because my notes weren't good, but they, they got everyone to the cars and Theo Shirley and Luke all drove off to take him to the hospital. Right. And then he invited Steve back into the house and says, Hey, I want to show you something. They go back in.
01:05:09
Speaker
And this vision ensues with Hugh of that first night, just losing it at the sight of seeing his wife dead. Oh, it was heartbreaking. Oh my gosh. It was so sad. How he screamed. Yeah. Like that was so sad.
01:05:36
Speaker
But miss Dudley and Mr. Dudley appear. And Hugh just looks really confused and asks why they were there. And then Mr. Dudley says that their kids snuck out. And if you're a clever audience member at that point, yourre your, your heart breaks again, because you realize what happened. And the Dudley's cry over Abigail's body.
01:06:05
Speaker
or Miss Dudley cries over Abigail's body because that it's revealed that she's their daughter.
01:06:13
Speaker
But as they're doing that, Abigail appears in the hallway.
01:06:18
Speaker
And I think Miss Dudley gets up and walks with her. And while he was in the room alone with Mr. Dudley, he says he wants to burn the house down and salt the earth. But the Dudley's convinced him not to because Abigail is there and they want to be with her. Dudley say that this house is full of precious things that don't all belong to Hugh.
01:06:46
Speaker
And Steve's sorry, I just thought that was a really good line. Hey, there's ah there's a lot of important things in this house and it's not all yours. I felt so sad for them because their turnaround from like even just processing that their daughter is now gone.
01:07:06
Speaker
to realizing that she's still, she's I don't know if I wanna say trapped, but she's still existing in the house as a ghost essentially. And all of that processing they have to do. And then they have to calm down Hugh.
01:07:24
Speaker
that that was That was crazy. yeah like It was like they were like hostage negotiating with him a little bit. Like having to change his mind. Cause he's like, this house is bad. This house is bad, but their view was no, this house has our child in it. Both of them. Essentially we find out later, but oh I know how many times did we have to restart the crying like over and over, over and over.
01:07:56
Speaker
But that was that was an interesting, like, cause at first I was kind of like, that doesn't seem really realistic, but I think they were just desperate, I guess, to go from like processing that their daughter is gone to now like calming down, calming down Hugh. I almost said Steve, but calming down Hugh to get him to the perspective that they have.
01:08:25
Speaker
okay Like, hey, like we know that this house is not good, but this is our only opportunity. This is the only way that we can still be with our daughter. Give that you have to let this, you have to give this to us. Um, and it almost seemed like if you were to disagree, Mr. Dudley would just become violent.
01:08:53
Speaker
Oh yeah, he was. I think he was. better like reality yeah To just pick him up and throw him out of the house. Yeah. it will He's like, don't, don't, don't do this because I will change your mind. It can go easier or hard depending on you. Yeah.
01:09:19
Speaker
But then after, after the vision. They're walking out and Steve, he sees Hugh's body and it's revealed that Hugh promised to stay with Mel and live so that the rest of the kids could live. Um, and his bottle of pills are around him. So we can assume that he overdosed and everything like that. Um, okay.
01:09:48
Speaker
You know, I don't remember anything from when I watched it the very first time, right? And then watching it again, I watched it last week, but I was watching it on my phone, which I'm learning I shouldn't do because I miss so much. I was trying to pay attention, especially during those last scenes. I totally miss that he was like dead on the ground. Did not catch it. Really?
01:10:13
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't see it at all. And so then I'm watching it today with Corey and then he's like, and then, you know, on the bigger TV and I see it and I'm like, oh, oh, I'm sad all over again. You're welcome. Thank you.
01:10:31
Speaker
um
01:10:35
Speaker
And for some reason I have. Oh, wait, wait, I'll get to it. Um, but Steve walks out of the house by himself and it's all the ghosts that are right behind him watching him leave. Yeah. And I just wanted to leave that with saying a ghost is a wish and all those potential wishes and what they were. Maybe for a fifth rewatch, we can think about that. Um,
01:11:09
Speaker
But Steve built a wall. Between him and. and
01:11:16
Speaker
What's your name, Lee? And he intends to tear that down. The kids all reconcile with their loved ones. And I loved the moment where Shirley goes to what's his name? I want to say I wanted to say Mike, but I don't think it's Mike. Her husband anyway. Yeah, Kevin.
01:11:38
Speaker
Kevin, I don't know. I want to say Mike. Anyway, he goes to Kevin and it's this really nice moment where she goes. I need you to love me for these next couple minutes. And it might be the hardest thing you ever have to do, but I need you to love me.
01:11:59
Speaker
And i think I thought like that's real love, you know?
01:12:11
Speaker
in all the. You know, the of romance movies and the rom coms or all those kinds of movies that. At least my wife lyn enjoys watching.
01:12:34
Speaker
It can just set a bad view, not a bad view, but a false ideal of what love can be.
01:12:43
Speaker
And just something so simple.
01:12:47
Speaker
And in this scene, I think is something that evokes such truthfulness of what love really is. And it's about being there for somebody, no matter how hard it is, and loving them, no matter how hard it is.
01:13:14
Speaker
because you know who they are and you're willing to see past their mistakes because they would probably do the same for you and it's just it hit me at a time in my life where it spoke to a lot of things that I'm going through and I get it. We're talking about like a five second scene here when she's just talking to um to him.
01:13:48
Speaker
But sometimes you watch things at the right time of your life and it just it just sticks with you for the rest of your life. And I think this is going to be one of those things. um
01:14:00
Speaker
Anyway, it's I'm making something more out of a five second scene than needs to. but I just I really liked that part. I really liked it. I like that it resonated with you. Yeah. um Yeah. Theo ends up moving it, moving out of Shirley's guest house and moving in with her. Her club friend is what I'll call it. Did she say she was moving in with her or was she just helping her move out?
01:14:30
Speaker
Oh. Maybe that I just I took it as they said one way or another. No, but Shirley's moving out naturally to us moving out of Shirley's place. Yeah. And she's leaving behind the gloves. Because she doesn't feel like she needs to separate herself from other people from connection.
01:14:53
Speaker
We see Steve and League sort of get a. um
01:15:01
Speaker
reconciliation together as well and the last scene that we see is Mr. Dudley brings c Clara to Hill House when she dies when they're both really old and she dies and he's crying over her but then she appears young as she does in the flashbacks and she's holding their baby boy and holding the hand of Abigail. And it closes on that scene. I don't know what the narration was. I wasn't paying attention to that at the moment, which is a very unprofessional me, I guess. But I was too busy crying. So give me some grace. But I think it was Steve's. Steve ah deep was narrating over that. And that's where the line is that the title comes from, Silently, Steadily.
01:16:01
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I can't remember the full quote, but that was good. Yeah. and Before I sort of say that the the episode ended, I really hated the wording of Steve's ne yeah narration where he's like, I'm home, I thought, and marveled in the something of that thought. I just, it felt very clunky and I didn't like the pros of that. And it's just something that I always stuck out to me. um But that being said, that was the end of Hill House. That was the last episode.
01:16:49
Speaker
And the only other notes I have is that the bowler hat man was William Hill, who is Poppy's husband. Hazel Hill is William's sister and who I think was the old lady on the bed. I think that might have been Hazel Hill. I thought the old lady on the bed was the one that the housekeeper had taken care of.
01:17:21
Speaker
and had the stars, the tea set, but I don't remember the name. but the Maybe it was Hazel. We can go with that. Sure. I think it was. And then Horace is the son of William Hill and the caretaker. William Hill bricked himself in because of his affair.
01:17:49
Speaker
And in one of the episodes, Mr. Dudley talked about his mom and it's implied that William Hill is his father. If if you do some little detective, detective thing that that was the affair is William, William, William Hill had with his housekeeper.
01:18:16
Speaker
which oh ended up with Horace, I think is Mr. Dudley's name. Yeah. So a lot of little connections here and there that I was sort of piece together. Okay. But that is what I have for the episode recap. Do you have anything, Laura?
01:18:45
Speaker
very cool thank you um so i had talked before about like not liking the ending in a sense that the whole series was this house is bad this house is bad and then it ends on a note of this house is a treasure this house is good you know what i mean and i i i think i've kind of like come around to the deeper meaning and the understanding of that it's just a house.
01:19:23
Speaker
And there's good and bad in it. And it's kind of how you want to look at it. So yes, it's dangerous. um But it also has good in it too. So I don't have anything much deeper than that. But I, I don't know, I might change my mind in that I will rank it higher on my list than blind manner. So because blind manner is pretty cut and dry. Everything makes sense. You know, it's Yeah, I like so the series that it's ah sorry, go ahead. No, you're going.
01:20:03
Speaker
Well, it's unconventional in in that a lot of other horror movies, you have something to defeat, something to solve, something to destroy, to get rid of the evil or the bad. And in this story, they don't. They just accept it and do with it what they will at in the aftermath, you know? Which? It's unconventional, which I like.
Addressing Trauma in Storytelling
01:20:33
Speaker
Well, that's this whole series has been about is like dealing with trauma. And how how do you heal and move past it, you know? Oh, yeah. It's not something that you just it's it's not this big bad evil that you can just defeat. And then, yeah, everyone's happy and you can go live the rest of your life. No, it's something you have to face and accept. And until you face it, you can't move forward. Yeah, I suppose. Because they they all had trauma from this house. And they they dealt with it in different ways. And at the end, you see how they are able to make amends with it, you know, there was really only one like evil entity. And I think it was Poppy. Yeah.
01:21:32
Speaker
And I think she was like the the one that really got into Liv's head and kind of changed her perspective because Liv was already kind of of the inclination of like wanting to keep her children safe from everything, even from life. And Poppy was like reinforcing that.
01:21:58
Speaker
So
01:22:02
Speaker
I guess in sort of support of your initial thoughts before we rewatch this series about saying how it doesn't make sense. It's like the house wants to kill you. Like ah the house is good now. It's not that I didn't think it made sense. It just felt so weird to me that they would end on like this nostalgic kind of happy-ish note. Like, I don't know what mind frame I was in when I was watching it. I was probably in my trauma. They came out when I think it did.
01:22:37
Speaker
But there there were lots of lines in the series where they were saying, oh, this house is bad. This house is evil. Oh, you kids can't go back to the house. That's exactly what it wants you to do. And referring to the house itself as a bad thing. But it again, like you just said, it's not the house itself inherently wasn't bad. It was poppy.
01:23:01
Speaker
Yeah. but we Like to what extent did she affect the rest of the house and the ghosts and everything in there, you know? Like why was the red room so like a stomach, you know? Yeah. Is the house just a consumer? It doesn't care what it's eating. It could be. It it could be like they mentioned it a few times.
01:23:30
Speaker
not to feed it anymore, like when Hugh was talking to the Duddlies, is that their name? The the caretakers. that they're not gonna let anybody else live in it and they're gonna starve it. I don't know if they say stop feeding it or if they say starve it, but they're not gonna give it anything else. Like don't let anybody else live here. Don't let anybody else, don't let it feed off. or so I don't remember exactly, but but yeah, I think in some ways it it does. It is personified it a bit, the house.
01:24:07
Speaker
And I just didn't see any other ghosts that were bad, other than Poppy, and then the other weird things in the how in the room. So, yeah. So how come, it is speaking of the room, it was Luke's tree house, but Steve was in there.
01:24:29
Speaker
Yeah, good question. oh
01:24:35
Speaker
Well, I think in we see Steve go in there. You know, it's it's not like they just work together. I think No, yeah, we see him go in there and it's like a bottom hatch. But like I can under I can understand that the house is going to mess with your perspective. So like, that's fine. Yeah, I think I think that's all it was is just the house.
01:25:00
Speaker
Again, but like, where how was the house doing it? Is it Poppy doing that? Is the house doing that? I think it's kind of a mixture of both. I think Poppy is just kind of advantageous. So I don't know. I don't know. And that's also kind of why I was frustrated with it on my first rewatch. It was just so inconsistent on that level.
01:25:24
Speaker
But, you know, watching it again, I think it's a little more forgivable because the rest of it was just so good and deep and like well done that I will choose to be okay with it. I really do feel like it's nitpicking at this point. Yeah. About like supernatural parts of the story that really don't have any overall bearing on it, you know? Yeah, we don't have to make everything make sense. Yeah.
01:25:54
Speaker
It was a well-told story. We'll have to see what the book says. And then one of the movies, we can watch one of the movies. Or both, maybe. Or both. We'll see. I remember watching the newer movie with Catherine Zeta Jones. And I remember it being really stupid.
01:26:17
Speaker
I can't wait. Like that one is very conventional horror. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that'll be our next episode. Yes. And that will sort of wrap up this whole haunting of Hill House. Oh, I can't believe it. Season that we've been doing. And then the next season is going to be haunting of Bly Manor. And I am so excited because I haven't I think I've maybe you watched it maybe twice for sure. Once, maybe twice.
01:26:52
Speaker
I for sure watched it once. I don't think I felt the need to watch it a second time. So I have Corey's comments from episode nine. yeah I don't know, bro. hey he And like I said, the more he really likes to show, the less he's going to comment on it.
01:27:10
Speaker
and the more he got into it the less things he was like saying. So in episode nine I loved his perspective with this. So in the scene in episode nine where Mrs. Dudley is talking with Liv and it's after the storm and they're just kind of cleaning up the glass a little bit in that hallway where all the glass had shattered and we learned that the storm really was only just over the house so it was kind of like a haunted storm. um And Liv goes into a monologue about how when her father died and it rained rocks and she figured that she made the rocks rain because she was finally sad about her father passing and then my husband said like
01:27:56
Speaker
Maybe she actually did have psychic abilities such as ah as a kid, and her grief really did make the rocks rain or make it rain rocks. And if she is more susceptible to having kind of psychic abilities, that he said that house really isn't good for her. She would be easier to possess.
01:28:22
Speaker
Wow.
01:28:25
Speaker
Right. Better. Yeah. Wow. Do you think maybe that's why she was more susceptible to being kind of taken over? She, her mind was just open to more of the paranormal things and like. Oh, for sure. Because we didn't see Hugh really at all. Like he's the only one in that family who never stepped foot in the red room until the end when he was trying to save the family. Yeah.
01:28:56
Speaker
You know, yeah so that, that makes a whole lot of sense. Like the house did not want him. And as children, we hire, we have our imaginations are still open. We still accept things that are not as logical. So the children, it makes sense. If that's true about live, that kind of makes sense. Yeah. Like what is the house feeding off of it? The red room is a stomach and the house is digesting them. What is it feeding off of? Yeah.
01:29:26
Speaker
Yeah. I love that. That's awesome. It was like so insightful. He's so smart. And then for episode 10, when it first started, um it opened with the scene with Steve talking to Lee. And she's pregnant. He said, let's just hope it was all a nice dream. That's all.
01:29:51
Speaker
And he didn't even know at that point that it was like a false vision, that it was like not a flash forward. It was it was like a spooky, a little spooky vision. And then after like she started getting all creepy, he was like, it's not real. I was right.
01:30:16
Speaker
I love rewatching stuff as long as I'm watching it with someone who's doing it for the first time. Yeah. I just like watching the reactions to everything. Yeah, me too. Some things like I just rewatch for me. But yeah, I really do like helping other people discover things and like just staring at them. Yeah. Yeah. um One other thing I wanted to bring up is there's about A disorder called the devouring mother and live like fits into it. Ooh.
01:31:01
Speaker
And so when I was watching this episode, I was like, oh my gosh, she's turning into a devouring mother. She doesn't want her kids to progress. She doesn't want them to get hurt. She doesn't want them to experience normal life. She wants to keep them safe and protected and young and make them, quote, wake up. um Just a really quick.
01:31:20
Speaker
snippet of explaining what a devouring mother is from a website called sunflower counseling.com. um So basically like as per Google, devouring mothers particularly are characterized by over nurturing, smothering, overly protective and possessive behaviors. They usually have a child like dependence on their children, which makes it difficult for their offspring to develop autonomy and establish their own identity.
01:31:50
Speaker
Huh. Huh. And you see a little bit. and say Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, you see a little bit of that when she first starts talking to Poppy and her point of view. Liv's point of view was. and And I had mentioned that I disagreed with it. I just forgot which character had said it that.
01:32:13
Speaker
ah As parents, you are raising your children to be adults. You're not raising them to be children. So I'm not raising children per se. I'm raising adults, right? And she said the opposite. Liv said the opposite. And this was before she really went off the deep end with her psychosis. um She doesn't want to raise adults. She really did have that in her mind, probably even before they got into the house. She wants to keep them young and innocent and safe.
01:32:45
Speaker
and doesn't like the idea of as as a mother letting them go in the world to experience things that are hard and painful.
01:32:56
Speaker
I love that, like a little more insight about her. Yeah. But I like all the tidbits that we get before she really goes into that. And then she's still in that mind frame after she's been dead for however many years it is between when they first got there and when they returned later. She was like still in that frame of like, cool, done. Let's let's do this. Let's stay here. Let's stay together. Let's stay safe. And then I like the counterbalance of Hugh like telling her, no, that's not how things should be.
01:33:33
Speaker
Yeah, because ah most most of the time during this series, it felt like they were on the same team and they were on the same page. They were a good team. Yeah, they were a good team together. And sometimes having opposite views, balancing each other out means you're a good team too, but she
01:33:59
Speaker
was manipulated and like Poppy kind of tipped that scale and then took advantage of the effects of the house and her migraines and I guess we're assuming she has psychic abilities that the house can tap into and really tips her into that like disorder even more.
01:34:25
Speaker
Well, thank you for that. I love that. Yeah.
01:34:31
Speaker
Sometimes I don' have smart things in my smart thoughts sometimes. that That should be the slogan for the podcast. Sometimes we say smart things.
01:34:44
Speaker
Sometimes we're not completely stupid. um I think I have a final jump scare count of about 15.
Jump Scares and Mood Setting
01:34:59
Speaker
Cool.
01:34:59
Speaker
ah That's a rough number because there were I didn't accurately record however many we decided on at the end. Yeah. um But based off of my notes, I think we have a rough count of about 15. So give or take a couple.
01:35:18
Speaker
which I think is way less than what Midnight Club was. I don't know if you have that number or remember it off the top of your head. No, it was like in the 60s. It was like 60 something. Oh, really? It was either like 30 something or 60 something. I feel like 30 something is more accurate. But it was like tons of jump scares in the first episode. So much so that you just stop counting. But yeah, there were a lot. And then like the almost pointless old people in the mirrors Oh, yeah. But they kind of explained that, so I'm not too mad about it anymore, but we don't need to rehash that. So um but I think that's fitting for this kind of a show. It doesn't need jump scares for it to be scary. It doesn't need it. Yeah. It really doesn't. There was plenty of. Weird and creepy images that we don't feel the need to see again. I think ah yeah it works the same.
01:36:19
Speaker
in the if theyre a little bit better In the visions that Poppy was making them see to keep them trapped in the Red Room. And if Nell wasn't there, they would have been done for. She would have had them.
01:36:35
Speaker
like the slow reveal where just things kind of start to go a little wrong was so scary. And do you ever have nightmares like that where like everything is fine but then somebody says something or something happens that is just like small and subtle but scary and just wrong? You know what I mean? It was like the moment where Joey and Luke were sitting in the hotel room and she says something teasing but it's like rude where she's like you're sweet on me and his reaction of like why are you talking like this that's not like you small things like that just get to me because I think my dreams are like that when I have bad dreams like when I have nightmares and like somebody acts so out of character from themselves
01:37:30
Speaker
So that those were those were pretty creepy from this episode. And then all the other slow scares done so well.
Season Wrap-Up and Future Anticipation
01:37:41
Speaker
Like like the the bowler hat man, the tall the tall man or William, I guess is what we should call him. Oh, I completely skipped that scene the first time. Yeah, I was not having time in the reaching of the bed. I hate that. I hate that. I hate that.
01:37:59
Speaker
And he like full on like puts his face under there and stares at Luke, poor kid. Oh my gosh. No thanks. Yeah. Um, do you have anything else, Laura? No, that's it for me. I don't have anything else.
01:38:17
Speaker
And so it looks like that's gonna be a wrap on Haunting of Hill House. We thank you all for listening throughout this season and we're excited for you guys to join us next one as we go over Haunting of Bly Manor.
01:38:32
Speaker
tv and No, it's yeah well thanks for sticking with us. Those of you that have, we really appreciate you. viewers's It's flattering. No, it's flattering that even like more than just me is downloading an episode. So I really, I really appreciate you guys. Like honestly, when we started this show, it was just for us to to be able to talk about these shows, like a reason to sit and analyze every single one.
01:39:00
Speaker
um every single episode. um So the fact that we have, you know, anybody listening is a real compliment. So thank you. You're always welcome here, guys. And gals. I said guys, all inclusive folks, folks. Thanks, y'all.
01:39:29
Speaker
Thanks, y'all. And this is just this just for my dad. Thanks, you guys. Yeah. Perfect. OK, thanks. Bye. Thanks. Bye.