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Episode 4: The Twin Thing
35 Plays10 months ago
Here we learn more about Luke and his journey with addiction, and path to recovery. Did Luke and Nell's connection start in the House?
Also, we finally hear about the part that freaked out Laura the most in the whole series! It's seriously creepy!
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Setup
00:00:02
Speaker
It's time for House on the Hill. What? It's haunted. Do you mean the haunting of a hill house? Exactly. Let's go.
00:00:55
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Fans of Flanagan. I'm Noah. I'm Laura.
00:01:04
Speaker
What did I do? Fans of who? Oh, Flanagan. Fans of Flanagan. Nothing. No, you're good. No, you're good. This week. That was beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. I try. You know, I've been practicing. You know, I'll do my full four exercises. Welcome to fans of Flanagan. Welcome to fans of Flanagan. Welcome to fans of Flanagan.
00:01:30
Speaker
Do my anchorman warm-ups.
Episode 4 of 'The Haunting of Hill House' Overview
00:01:37
Speaker
This week we are talking about episode four of Haunting of Hill House. It's called A Twin or The Twin Thing. It's called The Twin Thing. Or if you ask my husband what it's called, it's House on a Hill. He's still calling it. Last night he's like, don't you have to watch House on a Hill?
00:02:03
Speaker
Well, just so everybody else has caught up, we tried to record last week, not that it matters at publishing, but my internet was out because we had to change our bank info, like our debit card that we used to automatically pay the internet, but somebody had stolen our card information, so we had to replace those. So the internet doesn't pay. I didn't even know that part. Yeah, I didn't even get into it over text because I was just like, it is what it is. So I updated that.
00:02:32
Speaker
And then it turns out there was a neighborhood outage for our services anyway. So even though I paid, my internet didn't work and we record remotely because we live on opposite sides of the country. So there was no recording last week. Correct. So, yep.
Laura's TV Show Discoveries
00:02:52
Speaker
So last night my husband and I watched Barry instead of House on a Hill.
00:02:59
Speaker
that's a good uh good change of pace i guess a good replacement i won't complain about barry oh never no he's loving it he would not watch it with me further the longest time but he's finally learned to trust that i have good taste in shows
00:03:16
Speaker
I asked him for like years, you want to watch this show? No, you want to watch Barrett? No. Then finally, I was like, Hey, I don't care. We're watching Barry. You're sitting down. You're doing it with me. No choice. Yep. No choice. Well, before we actually get into the episode, this is a good place to talk about stuff we've been watching. So what have you been watching besides Barry? The new season of Fargo. Okay.
00:03:46
Speaker
Um, I, I didn't watch the previous season. I started to just because the ones that proceeded that were just amazing. And I'm sure the previous season was amazing too, but here's my issue. Um, you know how I've talked before about how I love when comedians do dramatic roles.
00:04:06
Speaker
They always nail it. I could not get past Chris Rock doing a traumatic role. I couldn't do it. No hate. He's an amazing actor, I'm sure, but his face. I couldn't get through. Chris Rock trying to be traumatic in a serious role.
00:04:35
Speaker
And if it, if it's good, give me feedback that it's worth pushing through and finishing that season. But as it is, I'm watching the newest one. Um, and I, I'm bad at knowing these actors names, but it's, uh, it's good so far. Um, I need to catch up on the newest one or two episodes, but it reminds me a lot of home alone. And I don't say that in a, in a, like a negative way, but
00:05:04
Speaker
The female lead is like really crafty and strong and smart. So I really like her. But anyway, that's what I'm watching. Nice.
Noah's Film Interests
00:05:18
Speaker
I have a whole slew of things because it's been two weeks and I've actually won. Let's go. We have rewatched. Well, I'm not including like my comfort shows that I watch in between. But go ahead.
00:05:34
Speaker
I watched, I rewatched Prometheus and Alien Covenant because it was showing it to my wife, to Jacqueline. Um, and they're not great, but I enjoy them. They're, they're like the movies that they're not good at all, but you still really like, you know, just like, they're not great. They're not good, but I enjoy them. I think it.
00:06:04
Speaker
has interesting themes about creation and where we come from and who created us and all that kind of stuff. I love that. I love what they did with it. And I think Michael Fassbender in those roles. He's really good.
00:06:21
Speaker
But again, it's just like, those are some of the movies that I know they're not good, but I like watching them. No problem with that. Yeah. And then I watched. Yeah. When you finished, I have one more that I watched since we last spoke, but go ahead. I want you to finish. Go. Have I talked about St. Maude at all?
00:06:44
Speaker
Not to my recollection. Okay. Not saying you haven't, but I don't remember, so go ahead. Yeah. It's an, I think I watched it and I was really excited to share it on the podcast like last week and then it didn't happen. Yeah. Hey, stop scratching the card. Sorry. Again, I'm sorry. Um, but it's called St. Maude. It's an A24 movie and
00:07:12
Speaker
Okay, you have to explain what that means. It means it's artsy. Not everybody is a film nerd. A24 is basically a studio.
00:07:23
Speaker
Um, as best as it seems to me, I haven't really done too much research into them, but what it seems like is they give money to filmmakers and basically say, do whatever you want. You have free reign. I love those. Cause they're always like, so either like really good or really bad. Yeah. That they're mostly just really good.
00:07:46
Speaker
the witch or the vivitch as people like to call it that was a witch um they have a bunch of just like a 20 i think ladybird might be one but it's not just yeah horror or like thriller movies it's all kind of things um yeah but saint mod
00:08:09
Speaker
isn't a 24 film. I don't know who it's directed by. And I can't remember the main actress, but it has. Sort of a lot of the same themes that are in Midnight Mass. And it's really interesting, and I don't want to tell you too much about it because I want you to go into it completely blind. It's got a six point seven out of 10 on IMDB.
00:08:40
Speaker
Which that's pretty good. I'm not saying it's the greatest movie alive, but it was interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It was very slow, but there's a lot of moments that I was asking myself, what the heck am I watching? I kind of enjoy those movies sometimes.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, watch it. I want to see what you think about it. Obviously, it's not a movie to watch with kids around. No, I'm seeing there's a very severe warning for violence. Yeah. And frightening scenes. Yeah. Again, most of it is
00:09:26
Speaker
What is going to happen? Like there's nothing happening with, and then it's like the last 30, 20 minutes is what got it. Okay. Um, what else? There was something else that I wanted to talk about. Oh, I went and saw the boy in the Heron. Oh, is that good? I.
Exploring Darkfield's Immersive Experiences
00:09:48
Speaker
don't think those kind of movies are for me so you're not like a house moving castle or spirited away is it this is this is my first yeah but this is my first studio ghibli movie i haven't or ghibli i don't know how you pronounce it but this is the first one of them that i've seen so you haven't seen the others that i like just mentioned no i haven't seen princess manunoke or um
00:10:15
Speaker
There was another one like that that I was thinking of that's not spirited away, but I haven't seen any of those before.
00:10:25
Speaker
From what I've seen of like clips and like pictures, it is a lot like those movies in that way. And the English dubbed version has incredible vocal performances. Robert Pattinson, one to be to be named, did an amazing job.
00:10:48
Speaker
But I don't think it was for me. If you like those movies, you probably will like it. But I didn't particularly I wouldn't go watch it. I don't I don't dislike them. I just you know, if it's a good movie, it's a good movie, but I'm not like a super fan by any means.
00:11:07
Speaker
Yeah. And there's one more thing I want to talk about. It's not a show or a movie, but it was something that I found when I was scrolling social media. It's called Darkfield. And they are immersive shows.
00:11:25
Speaker
They are shipping containers. And each one is themed. Some of them are called seance, eulogy, flight, arcade, coma. And it's supposed to be this immersion, like thriller immersion experience. It's called what? It's called Darkfield. Darkfield.org is the website. And they have
00:11:57
Speaker
It's location based. Yeah, I just see on the website it says book tickets. Most of them are are in Australia, so it wouldn't be accessible to you or me as of right now. Last time I saw I think there was maybe one or two in New York. I could be wrong. It looks really interesting, and if I ever get the chance, I would love to do it.
00:12:27
Speaker
from their website darkfield.org darkfield produces innovative immersive experiences at the forefront of technology and theater both location-based experiences and digital work darkfield's location-based work utilizes striking sets and shipping containers
00:12:43
Speaker
Benan Ural 360 degree sound complete darkness and a variety of sensory effects where each participant is situated at the center of intense evolving narratives. See, I don't know if I would enjoy this. I'm not going to say I won't, but like, I feel like this, this, this feels like anxiety. Darkfield radio probably brings dark fields working by Benan Ural. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Ben
00:13:08
Speaker
buying aural audio into the audience's environment via a phone app, their home, their car, their local park become the setting for strange worlds to unfold around them, stealing them away from reality. Darkfield have been featured in major film festivals such as the BFI London Film Festival, Venice International Film Festival, IDFA Tribeca Film Festival,
00:13:32
Speaker
and so on.
Discussion on 'Suicide Squad' Movie
00:13:33
Speaker
Alongside partners around the world, Darkfield is touring work in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, China, US, Canada, South Korea, Mexico, and have so far reached over 350,000 audience members worldwide and counting. So this could become like a well-known thing. Interesting. Yeah. And I would love to do the location-based thing, but I also wanted to mention the radio part. I haven't actually
00:14:02
Speaker
done more to find out how it is, what it is. Oh, I'll try to report back. Yeah, please do. It's like it's like podcast or like it just it says immersive audio experiences. Immersive audio. Yeah, I'm very interested to try it. I will see if I can and get get back to report. Please do. So I think it might be a couple of weeks before we record again. OK, there's a dark field radio app.
00:14:32
Speaker
So you can actually download the Darkfield radio immersive audio experiences at home on Google Play or the apps or the Apple app store. Yeah. Cool. So, yeah. I just saw like a video on TikTok and I thought it was very interesting. And I wanted to know more and I try it. So yeah.
00:15:02
Speaker
um if you guys are from any of those areas and you actually have done one of those by chance let us know how it was oh please do so um with that being said oh you said you wanted to tell you right i did because i i finally saw
00:15:21
Speaker
the new Suicide Squad movie, the world, but new to me because I didn't know it existed. Because it was on, I think HBO Max first, or just Max. I hate, oh, I don't want to say Max.
00:15:38
Speaker
It's on Max. Who's max? Anyway, it's on HBO. So we watched it on there. And then like the week later, they dropped it on Netflix. But my husband and I watched it. It's so funny. It really is. It's hilarious. So gory. So gross.
00:16:03
Speaker
But it's so funny and I love that it just feels like the creatives in charge just got to do whatever they wanted. There's that one sequence with Harley Quinn where she's going through the, I don't know, the president's house.
00:16:20
Speaker
And she's just like on a killing rampage, but then there's like cartoon flowers all over the place. Like that's her POV. And I'm like, genius. I love it so much.
00:16:36
Speaker
the part that got me the most and I don't know why it made me laugh so hard but I just I laughed gut laughed for 10 minutes straight when they at the beginning part where they're air dropping out of the airplane and he knows exactly what to talk about and when we when weasel hits the water and he can't swim
00:17:01
Speaker
And just this like weird ferret weasel entity is just laughing around and everybody around is just staring at him. That weasel thing the entire the entire morning. I don't know why that was so it was just like
00:17:27
Speaker
The physical comedy and the situational comedy of that spot. Oh, it was the best. Yeah. So good. And I don't know why it's so funny, but it is. He's just thrashing around in the water and everybody's just staring at him. But there are a lot of moments like that where it's like, this shouldn't be funny, but it's hilarious.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah. Did you, do you see what I mean though, when I was talking about the, the killing competition scene, when they're, when they're going through that camp and they're taking out all those people and they're, yeah, the way they were doing it. I just, I thought it was super funny. I did. Like I really laughed at that one part when, uh, I think John Cena shot the guy in the shoulder and, uh,
00:18:23
Speaker
Oh, the other dude that was having the competition with him was like, that's not impressive. You shot him in the shoulder, and then half the guy explodes. And he's like, delayed bullets or something. And he's like, why did you do that? That was unnecessary. He's like, because it's really cool. And then he turns on, man, it was really cool. Dang it.
00:18:45
Speaker
I just, I love the banter those two had the entire movie. Yeah, I do everything you do, but better. Yeah. That was funny. And then when they're like realized they killed the whole camp and they were all good guys. Yeah. Anyway, that's all for me.
In-depth Analysis of Luke's Journey in 'The Haunting of Hill House'
00:19:12
Speaker
Anyway, we're going to actually get into this week's episode. Like we said, the twin thing, it was directed by Mike Flanagan. And I actually don't really have a jump scare count this episode. Oh, I had, I had a conversation at the end of the episode where I asked my husband, did you notice any jump scares? Because I had the same thing, but I did count one.
00:19:46
Speaker
Not that there weren't scary parts, but things that actually made you startled is what we count as an actual jump scare. Not the very creepy things that still are very creepy, but this episode has the part that I skipped over the last time, so I actually watched it for the first time this time, because I wasn't by myself. I wanna know what it is. Oh, it freaked me out. I guess we'll find out. It was still very scary.
00:20:07
Speaker
probably get there when we get there.
00:20:14
Speaker
I had under my blanket, but I still watched. We opened up the episode with young Luke, and he's showing somebody a picture of the zombie that was crawling towards him, I think, in the last episode. Yeah. So he's still kind of traumatized and scared from that. He's like, yeah, nobody believed me. Nobody believes me about you either.
00:20:41
Speaker
And we're like, who the heck is he talking to? And it shows this little plot girl that he's talking to. And we can assume this is Abigail. And then we flash forward to adult. Luke is now in a rehab meeting. I'm assuming it's like group talk or group therapy or something like that. Yeah, that's a group therapy.
00:21:07
Speaker
This blind dude is talking about his life and his experience and how he was in a war and he some of the messed up stuff that he saw. I don't know if I want to say exactly what he saw, because it's it is kind of disturbing. I don't think we need to. Yeah, we don't need to reiterate. If you've seen that, you know what I'm talking about. And if you haven't seen it, why are you listening like?
00:21:34
Speaker
Why are you here? We're not that entertaining. This is not about me. This is about the show. Just kidding. Everybody's welcome.
00:21:54
Speaker
But he's saying he was traumatized by this and he keeps seeing it everywhere. The clouds, the wallpaper, everything. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I just remembered exactly what he was talking about. Yeah. And one night he drops acid and in an effort to stop himself from seeing this, he
00:22:17
Speaker
He basically blinds himself. He basically was saying now, by trying to get, by trying to not see what I was seeing, now I'm kind of fated to see it the rest of my life. I can't remember the exact quote, but that's basically what he said. Now he can't stop seeing her. She's everywhere.
00:22:42
Speaker
And I can't imagine what the other kids must continue to see. And it relates to a lot about Luke in this episode. He keeps seeing the thing that traumatized him over and over and over. And he still hasn't found a way to get rid of it or to stop seeing it either. And so is it going to cause him to hurt himself?
00:23:10
Speaker
And and make it worse for make his life worse. But he is looking rough. I don't look is looking really bad. You can tell he's probably fresh into to rehab or something like that. He looks like he's going through it withdrawals or something. I really like how context is dropped as the story goes along, like nothing is ever
00:23:37
Speaker
obviously explained, but they do a really good job at like organically letting you in on the situation. I just really appreciate that. And the way they use time to do that and like all the time jumps, it doesn't feel right. I think we've talked about that before. But then it flashes forward, I believe. I think it's forward to when Luke gets his 90 day chip.
00:24:08
Speaker
And he's about to share his story and his experiences, and then it flashes back into time. Luke is showing his dad, Hugh, the picture and everything, and Hugh tries to reassure him that there's nothing there. You're just seeing things. Things are imaginary. And while the way that he is doing it, I can see his
00:24:35
Speaker
he's trying to be a good father, but he also isn't kind of believing his kids, you know, which when they're coming to you about supernatural stuff like that, like, Oh, yeah, I saw a zombie, you kind of be like,
00:24:49
Speaker
Uh, did you, did you really? Right. Right. But you can tell when your kid is like genuinely scared. Yeah. And the wrong thing to say is that didn't happen. Cause then your child who's the scared, they, you know, as, as terrified as they are now feel alone. And that's, uh, sometimes worse, I think. Yeah.
00:25:15
Speaker
on top of, you know, the trauma of seeing something very scary and now you don't have someone to help you with it. Anyway. No, no, I don't want you to stop by taking over or something. No, I don't. I just kind of lost my heart. That happens to me all the time.
00:25:35
Speaker
I got lost. A butterfly. Look at that. It's like my train of thought just like, you know, faded out of, out of my, out of my prefrontal cortex, just, bye bye.
00:25:51
Speaker
Anyway, uh, I, I just think it's important. I think what I was trying to say is it's important to like help your children with their feelings and emotions, even if you don't believe their experiences, you know what I mean? Like validate them and also validate them and believe it's it's, there's a saying that, that we used to use it's believe, but verify, you know, like if you don't need to verify, you can just believe it, but you know, start off with believing.
00:26:22
Speaker
Okay. But I feel like the dad, you know, he started really strong with believing his kids and like validating their emotions. And I think he's kind of getting, I don't know, tired of it. Yeah. Like, cause things keep happening around the house. And he doesn't have, he doesn't see them. Yeah. He doesn't see them happening. So he's kind of like, Oh, but it's like, what are you supposed to do?
00:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. And he doesn't see it or he doesn't believe it until it's too late. And we've already seen little hints at that. Right. Right. And a man and dads are fixers. And if there's nothing they can fix, it's kind of like, well, we need to move on. Dare you call all of us out like that. It's a good thing.
00:27:16
Speaker
It's also very frustrating sometimes. It's very frustrating. Right. Yeah. Because you're just looking for the solution, looking for the solution. Sometimes there is no obvious solution. And so instead of working towards figuring it out to help the kid, sometimes what happens is things get dismissed. So, but moving on. Um, the part that I don't like is that he was trying to bribe Luke by saying,
00:27:45
Speaker
Hey, you could wear this, this hat, but this has only for big boys and big boys. Oh, I did not like that. Like the second he was like, I like that hat done yours, buddy. Look, you look awesome. Like it's a hat, but the whole like.
00:28:03
Speaker
You can only have it. You know, big boys know what's real and what's not. Yeah. Imagine it. Oh gosh. He's five maybe. Come on now. He's little. He's a baby. Yeah. Um, I think in some contexts that is not a bad thing, but in the situation where your child has actual like trauma, it was, it was a mess for me. Yeah. Complete mess. Yeah. Um,
00:28:32
Speaker
Nell is hiding in some boxes. Olivia comes down and sees her. It's kind of like joking with her. And then I was about to walk away. And. I think someone asks if he likes the hat and Luke doesn't answer, but Nell says she knows Luke loves it. And they're like, oh, how do you know that? And she's like, well, it's a twin thing. Just walks off. Everyone accepts it. But then.
00:29:01
Speaker
Olivia gets like deja vu. And I'm assuming it's sort of like what. Oh, my word, I forgot the middle daughter's name. The one with the gloves, what's her name? Theo.
00:29:22
Speaker
Theo, thank you. We're such professionals. It's kind of like what Theo has where she's able to touch things and feel them. But Olivia puts like this scarf or something on. Yeah, we kind of established that like her intuition
00:29:40
Speaker
where she touches things and gets images kind of started at the house. Would that be fair? Do you think the twin thing started at the house or do you think that was like before they moved in? I think it was before they moved in. And if anything, maybe the house like magnified it. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe made it easier for them to be connected.
00:30:10
Speaker
Because I've just heard stories in real life about having this connection a real phenomenon. Yeah, but I was just kind of wondering if maybe the house had something to do with that too. I think it's pretty I think it's the theory that it probably magnified it.
00:30:34
Speaker
is reasonable and could be argued. It has been spoken, so it is done. It is true. We said it. We have decided. I am Mike Flanagan. Actually, that's me.
00:30:56
Speaker
Anyway, Olivia, Olivia gets what she's called. Stacia from, from the script that she puts on and she describes, um, I didn't even catch that she can see in the house and the family. And the one that I really stuck out to me is the, the, the boy in the wheelchair, which remember that. Cause that happens later, not in this episode, but we see something like that happen later. Um,
00:31:24
Speaker
And just she sees she sees life and love and family in this house. And that's it feels makes you feel good. But then we get some lovely foreshadowing because Liv looks up at the ropes that are above the staircase and the catwalks and everything. And she's like, you know, you got to do something like that. I see an accident waiting to happen.
00:31:48
Speaker
Oh, boy, does she know. And I don't know if she actually sees it happen or if it's just something that, oh, maybe that doesn't look so good. Maybe you should take care of that kind of thing. Right.
00:32:03
Speaker
Anyway, we flash forward into time to Luke talking with his friend, Joey, I believe her name is. Again, I haven't seen this episode in a week, so I'm trying to get my first off of it. Um, he sees a friend, Luke, and he's struggling with the fourth step of recovery, I'm assuming. And the step is a fearless moral inventory. Um, which is basically just.
00:32:33
Speaker
In my eyes, truthfully, as unbiased as you can, looking at yourself and saying, what do I lack? Where do I struggle morally? Could I be doing better? That kind of thing.
00:32:51
Speaker
It's hard to confront yourself and be honest about yourself. And just for context, these are the 12 steps in addiction recovery programs. And I took that as he has to take inventory of wrongs that he's done, big and little, because I think also one of the other steps
Examining Addiction and Rehabilitation Themes
00:33:18
Speaker
is apologizing.
00:33:22
Speaker
Do you think he struggles with that part the most or is it just trying to? Admitting what he's done wrong? Yeah. I think a lot of the stuff that he would consider having done wrong is a product of situations he was put in that he had no control over. So I would have a hard time taking a moral issue with things that are a response.
00:33:47
Speaker
to deep trauma. But again, you have to, you were only accountable for things that we do, regardless of what it stems from, I think. Obviously, there's a lot of
00:34:00
Speaker
nuance to that so don't come at me because I could take up the whole rest of the hour talking about things like that but just as a general just as a general thing it's it's a hard thing to do so there are things that are wrong that are justified or you know context and nuance that's all but it's it's I would have a hard time doing that facing myself
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, and just actually bringing it to the forefront, because I think maybe a lot of the things that you've done wrong are the things that you don't like about yourself.
00:34:41
Speaker
They kind of sit there in the back of your mind, like you know that there, but you don't, you don't really think about it. You try not to think about it. Um, and actually we even talked. Oh yeah. And we've talked before about addiction being, uh, an escapism tactic. And what are you trying to escape? Sometimes guilt could be something that you're trying to escape from. And so it could be a trigger for addiction. Maybe that's why the step is so hard for him because it's triggering and he wants to, you know, go use.
00:35:12
Speaker
Do you think he started it because of his childhood trauma of like the stuff in the house? Or do you think he started- At this point in the story, that's what they're alluding to. That's the conclusion we can come to. I don't think any of the stuff that he did- Probably feeling alone.
00:35:33
Speaker
No, but I would say that's one of the things that can factor into wanting to escape from your feelings and emotions. Guilt is a very powerful one you don't want to face. Yeah. Because then that means accountability, which is hard. And having to admit and to change and anyway. But I just think that step for him was like a big trigger
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah. And trying to stay close. Yeah. I just don't think I don't see anything that he would.
00:36:11
Speaker
be afraid of admitting to or being feeling guilty about until after he uses, because after he uses, when he starts taking money from people, when he starts stealing from people, all that kind of stuff. Obviously, we don't get that part. And then that, but also at this, at this time in the story, all we have are these little snippets of his childhood and skipping all these years to his adulthood. So we don't see anything in between.
00:36:38
Speaker
Right. And also things that fuel addiction are trying to escape, you know, feelings that result from, I'm not an expert in any of this, by the way. So relax if I'm wrong, just kindly correct. These are our, you know, your case. Yeah. Um, so no, not just guilt is fueling his addiction. It might even be like the smallest part of it. I think he's trying to escape.
00:37:07
Speaker
The things that happened when he was a child or whatever it was that got him started. And I don't know. We don't have all of the information here. So I just want to say real quick.
00:37:24
Speaker
Again, we don't, especially me, I don't really have any professional insight. I don't have any formal training on almost anything. So we are just speaking on our truths and our experiences in our life. Right. We are not an authority in anything. Do not use us as a reference. This is for entertainment purposes only friends.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah. So most of the things that we talk about and the things that we think are true or are right are going to be our truths, lower cased. Opinions. Yeah, we might bring in
00:38:02
Speaker
maybe a couple truths, like uppercase, if you understand what I'm trying to say, like there are no facts about life and experience that are going to be true regardless of who experiences them. But there's a lot of personal truths. I'll try not to ramble on it and be more convoluted.
00:38:25
Speaker
Yeah, this is another topic that could take up hours and hours and hours. So, forgive us for having to generalize things we're not including. All the things, it's just a surface, just a surface explanation of these quick things as we see them. And from the context of what the show is giving us to try to explain this character thus far in the series, because we're only on episode four. We don't know anything about these people, truly.
00:38:54
Speaker
A lot of these episodes are just starting points just to see where they come from and then we'll see where they go. Anyway, to continue on with the episode,
00:39:14
Speaker
We learn that his friend Joey is nine months clean, but there's something kind of up with her. Um, we don't really know what she's struggling with or why, why she's still in rehab or if she has a step that she still needs to do. Um,
00:39:32
Speaker
But then Luke kind of goes into some of the stuff that he's done and everything. And. Luke is just happy to have Joey because he hasn't really had anybody. Luke doesn't think the others specifically Steve will believe him that he got his 90 days chip.
00:39:52
Speaker
He really refers to Steve as someone who hasn't been all that helpful, hasn't really been there for them, hasn't believed him. Obviously, the only one who did was now his twin. And he feels really bad because he broke her heart because he wasn't there for the wedding. And we saw that already.
00:40:15
Speaker
And he's, he's blaming himself, not even, um, surely for sending him away. Um, and it's so sad, but, um, then they go to bed and everything. Is there anything that you, that I missed that you wanted to go over? And that, no, no, you covered. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I have good stuff.
00:40:43
Speaker
They did. I did like that sequence of him giving his little speech, not little, but his speech when he got his 90 day trip. I like that. And I do have to say anybody. That's not quite yet. That was later. That was later in the episode. That was later. So yeah, when he gets his chip and then stands up now, he was just talking to Joe in that scene. No, you're right. I'm sorry. I'm jumping ahead because again, for me, it's been a week since.
00:41:11
Speaker
It's not fresh in my mind. But yeah, no, there's conversation in the in the bedroom. And I before you realize that it's like a like an in treatment house, I thought it was
00:41:26
Speaker
like just them two in the room and there was like somebody sitting on a bed and I was like, oh, who's sitting on the bed? And then I realized, oh, there's other people that live here. It's like a dorm. So that wasn't a thing. But it would have been spooky if it was very. Anyway, it's like how there's supposed to be ghosts that you can only see if you're looking for them throughout the show. Have you seen that?
00:41:58
Speaker
I'll talk about that very end. I'll save that for the end. Okay. Because there's like YouTube videos that point them out anyway. Okay. Well, I have been trying to look in the background, especially since I had watched
00:42:17
Speaker
fall of the house of usher because it has a lot of that element in that show stay on track stay on track which episode did you get to i wouldn't even say a word because then i i'm i think i've been like in the middle of episode two just i keep up with everything's happened i know i know i know so slow i have been enjoying the live texting though
00:42:45
Speaker
It's, it's weird cause I'll start the episode and then I won't finish it until like a day or two later. So you're just getting these disjointed texts and like, what the heck you're still in the same episode. They are disjointed also because it's been a few weeks since I've seen it, but like all these like details, I'm like, wait, what? What are you talking about? Like some of them I know and some of them I'm like, I have no idea. Yeah. No idea.
00:43:14
Speaker
Um, anyway, staying on topic, stay on topic. We're talking about haunting of her house. Um, I can't believe you haven't finished the first, the second episode that made me almost that almost made me quit that series. The second episode, the second episode. Okay. I got to fold some laundry today. You'll get there when you get there. I'm just saying, I, I, I, hmm.
00:43:43
Speaker
I want to talk about this more. Anyway, Luke goes to bed, trying real hard to, to herd the goat. Okay. Okay. Luke is in bed. Why did I just make up a saying herd the goat? Is that a saying? Is it a herding cats? It's herding cats.
00:44:12
Speaker
I think goats are generally easy to herd. I was I was thinking about like stubborn animals and those are mules and donkeys and for some reason I thought goat instead of either one of those. I don't know why. Boats are notoriously compliant. It will be what you say.
00:44:43
Speaker
This is going so well. This is a serious show, sir. Get yourself together. You're right. You're right. I'm sorry. Luke is going through rehab and addiction. Luke goes to bed. Luke is in bed. Yeah, Luke is in bed.
00:45:10
Speaker
And he does the whole waking up in the middle of the night thing that we've seen before touching his neck and he wakes up. But we didn't see last time is now is standing right there in front of him. And she tells him to go.
00:45:32
Speaker
Yeah, that was cool. I think she just says go. She said go. I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it because it's kind of spooky. But it's also like, she's not creepy at all. It's just no, it was just her. Yeah. Just her. And he goes back to sleep and everything. Oh, okay. No, sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. No, I it's kind of like a spoiler. So I can't even
00:45:59
Speaker
talk about it. Yeah, I don't even I don't even want. Oh, sorry. I'm starting to jot it down in the notes. You don't forget about it. I won't forget it. But I just wonder if you know, you know why she's appearing as she is to at least two of her siblings as she has appeared to them. Like when she was in Steve's apartment, she looked normal.
00:46:22
Speaker
at first, right? And then when she shows herself to Luke, she looks normal. And if you know, you know, and that's all I can say for now.
00:46:39
Speaker
I'm going to write down my question. Yeah, please, because I I'm I'm not following a train. No, you won't, because it's a huge. So if the last one, the last episode is when I can't I can't give any more context, because I if you guys are like if anybody is following along for the first time as we are talking about this, like, first of all, I don't know why I just binge it. It's OK. But just in case.
00:47:10
Speaker
It's like the huge twist at the end. OK. Maybe there's a twist that's not like a twist. It's just kind of like, oh my gosh. Yeah. OK. But then Luke gets up in the morning and he starts rubbing his neck. And it's clear that he has some neck pain. And maybe he thinks he slept on it wrong or something. Yeah.
00:47:38
Speaker
But then he looks underneath his pillow and there's a note written that says, don't follow me or something like that. But we don't get that revealed until later. But then it's revealed in the group therapy session that his friend Joey left, she dipped.
00:47:57
Speaker
Um, and which is really upset, upsetting. And that seems like it came out of nowhere. Like she just gone. Yeah. So that's like one of the things that I was in this episode that hasn't made too much sense why she did it. And maybe she's just being used as a plot device. Um, she is. And I just wish they had given her like a little more depth to give some sort of like a clue that she was struggling.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah. But they're talking about how it can be dangerous to rely on another addict. And that is, that is a thing to them. Yeah. Yep. You don't want a trauma bond in.
00:48:40
Speaker
in a addiction and recovery program. Cause you can't, if you're both in the same spot in your recovery, it's not good. Yeah. But it makes sense because. And that's different than having like your sponsor that's more far along helping you through hard times. So we're not talking about sponsors, but like having a closer friendship at that point in their recovery.
00:49:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But it makes sense why Luke, why he did it because he just, he didn't have anybody else. Like no one was there for him. So it makes sense that he.
00:49:22
Speaker
bonded with somebody else and he connected with them. But I did miss the part. There was a flashback to my bed, but Young Luke is getting sent buttons to him by Nell through the speaker that we saw in I think the last episode. And Nell was like, I'm sending three to you and two fall down.
00:49:47
Speaker
And the third one doesn't, and you're like, Oh crap. Not again, please give these kids a break. Um, yeah. So they're talking about it. They're like, well, maybe it got stuck. Let's send, we can send something through to like.
00:50:03
Speaker
push it down so Luke goes up to the room to try and see if he can fix it and as he's looking into it the ghost face of like this old woman appears in the reflection and it scares him and everything and he runs off and then it leads into Luke waking up in the morning
00:50:29
Speaker
And that's what I wrote down old lady reflection, a jump scare question mark. She yells like she yelled Clara. Yeah. Um, that could be one, but I didn't, it wasn't like in your face. But it was a little startling. That's why I'm going to give it a half. Yeah. Okay. Cause I put a question mark on that, which are running total thus far was.
00:51:01
Speaker
seven and a half. So now we're up to eight. Yeah. And the half's count. They add up, you know. Now we have a whole. We have to have. Yeah, that's right. Just scare score eight by episode four. I like that the show doesn't rely on that, though. Yeah. Do you remember what the final count was for the nightclub?
00:51:31
Speaker
Like 30 something, I think. Oh my word. I don't have my, no, I don't know. My notebook is far away, but it was a lot. It's going to be interesting to compare the different series. Yeah. See how many are in each.
00:51:47
Speaker
Because I don't even think we did like a final tally by the time we got to the end because like that show is just so heavy by the time we got to like the last episode. We had other things to talk about. But then.
00:52:05
Speaker
Flashing forward past all the stuff that I just talked about about Luke's meeting and everything He gets upset because there's they're calling him out basically for getting close to Joey He says he just needs air and then he goes off and the the woman who runs it goes to his room to try to talk to him and the windows open and the note is left on the desk and it says don't follow me and
00:52:30
Speaker
And it's clear that Luke has now dipped us. Oh, excuse me, I'm sorry. I came out of nowhere. It's clear Luke has dipped out of the rehab center. And we see him at a phone and he's I think he's trying to call now and he has to leave a message. And by now, it's too late that we know he doesn't know it yet, but we know.
00:52:57
Speaker
Which is very sad because like give me a call if you need anything I'll be back at the place tonight I just gotta go get a friend, but please like tell me if you need something And then he Goes and sits on a bench and I thought it was weird at first like if you're neat if you're trying to find your friend Why are you just sitting on a bench? But he's being very smart about it because he knows this is a popular location Yeah
00:53:23
Speaker
So he's just watching. He's waiting for her to show up because he thinks she's going to show up here. And as he's waiting and watching. We see him focus and get really concerned on a man who is standing to him with his back turned and has the same kind of hat that we saw him. Small Luke.
00:53:48
Speaker
uh, where earlier in the episode. So we know it's probably related. It's super creepy. And then a buck dog starts barking at him and it's like, Oh, are you barking at me anyway? Um,
00:54:07
Speaker
Where was I at? Oh, now we go to why he's scared of or concerned about that man. It flashes back to young Luke and he's sleeping in the bed. And now is is this the part you skipped over? Keep going. Keep talking.
00:54:28
Speaker
The Nella is fully asleep and Luke hears like this faint tapping going on. It's it's not like what Theo and Shirley experience with the pain on the walls. He just hears this this light tapping tap. So he goes. Oh, OK. Now, when you say it like that, I'm getting goosebumps. Oh, I don't like that. I don't like that at all.
00:54:57
Speaker
um oh it's so ugh
00:55:04
Speaker
It's to me the scariest part in the whole show, in the whole series. Really? Oh, I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's because it's nighttime. It's the slow build up. It's the like that you see the whole creepy face and he's just there. But go ahead, describe the scene and you can go into it.
00:55:29
Speaker
Luke goes to the door and he opens it and he looks out in the hallway and there's just this. He like looks one way and there's nothing. He turns and looks the other way and it's like a shadow. It's an outline and I think he
00:55:45
Speaker
And it's not moving. And it takes a second because I imagine if I put myself in that spot, you're looking and it's kind of a slow reveal as you're realizing what you're actually seeing. Because you just see his like the shot, the outline of him. Because you know it's dark. Because it's dark. It's nighttime. It's hard to see things. Yeah, it's hard to see things in the dark, especially when they're not moving. When things are moving, it's easy to see. He's just like,
00:56:14
Speaker
ungodly still yeah yeah and then the figure starts to move because he turns around and then it starts to move towards turns around and it goes to the other room it doesn't go towards luke yet it goes towards the other room and opens it and goes inside and it's just it's just massive massive figure
00:56:36
Speaker
And he's like, does it show that he's floating yet? Yeah, sort of a little bit. I mean, it doesn't look like he's walking normally. You're looking up at the ceiling and it's really starting to freak me out because it's like, you know, oh my goodness. Hi.
00:56:59
Speaker
have these shelves in my dining area. And my cat is about to jump down. No, he's going to use the cabinets. He jumped onto the fridge and then he jumped onto a cabinet and then he walked across the whole cabinets and now he's then he went to the shelf. Now he's jumping. There he goes. Anyway.
00:57:22
Speaker
Um, Luke rightfully gets terrified by this and goes back in the room, quietly closes the door and hides beneath his bed. Yep. And I think when the doorknob started turning, that's when I just skip, skip, skip. I was like, Nope, Nope, Nope. Not today. Not today. Not today. Floating scary man. Not today.
00:57:47
Speaker
So the door opens and this man floats through. Now we can actually clearly see that he's floating because his feet aren't touching the ground. It's the cane. I hate it so much. I hate it. Stop. I don't know how well that came through because I can't hear it. I heard it.
00:58:12
Speaker
Um, but then he comes into the room, he goes to the bed and take something off the bed and in the shadow, we can see it. And he puts the hat on and he goes to exit, but Luke being a little kid can't manage his breath and keep his breath quiet. And he lets out a gasp and the figure turns around and comes towards the bed.
00:58:39
Speaker
the fingers like curling around the bottom of the bed first. I don't like that. I don't like that one bit. I hated it. And I thought I was hoping that was just going to be it and that was just going to be the. No. Oh, no. Scaryness. But no, the head fully comes out. He turns and like his face.
00:59:02
Speaker
I didn't, I didn't count that as a jump scare because it wasn't, no, it wasn't a jump scare. It was, yeah, it was just scary. If, if, if, um, if you seen, sorry, this will seem random, but Buffy the vampire slayer, have you watched that show ever?
00:59:24
Speaker
How dare you listen, push through the first two and a half seasons. It gets amazing there. I'll put that on my massive list of stuff to watch. Just watch it. Okay. What are you doing with your life? You're right. What am I doing? There's an episode that this floating guy reminds me of. And if you know, you know.
00:59:53
Speaker
But there's a whole episode with these floating beings coming into town on Buffy. It's terrifying. It's scary. And it's actually like one of the best rated episodes of the whole series. So good, but you haven't seen it. So I can't talk about it. Fine.
01:00:13
Speaker
For some reason, it made me think about the weeping age olds from Doctor Who. Oh, that's scary too. Oh my gosh. That's terrifying. But I don't want to get into that because there's so much I can say about that. This is not about that. This is about. You're right. You're right. House on a hill. Is this that house on the hill show? Are we watching House on a Hill? No, he knows what it's called now. It's just that's what he calls it. That's fine.
01:00:49
Speaker
So after that trauma, the terrifying face peeking at him under the bed. Because you don't know what he's doing. Is he checking on the children? Is he just looking at them sleeping? Is he nefarious? Is he good? What is this guy? The ambiguousness of it is also what makes it so scary because you don't know what he's doing.
01:01:12
Speaker
Is it also frustrating for you? Is that one of the things that you were talking about? Like one of the things that doesn't make sense? Like why? Like why is that there? In the whole scope of the show, kind of, but not this particular, the way that this character, this ghost thing is portrayed, I don't have a problem with, just because it is creepy, whether he's a good guy or a bad guy, it's creepy. So I don't have a problem with that.
01:01:41
Speaker
But I can't rant about any of that until the end. Yeah. But then we get.
01:01:54
Speaker
him flashing forward to the future again. I'm assuming that was like something he was thinking about because it seemed like he was in thought. And then he gets brought back to the moment with the car horn and the yelling and everything. And he looks over at the dealer and he sees his friend walk up to the dealer.
01:02:14
Speaker
Takes Joey away and I think he calls the rehab center and it's like, hey, I found her like I found her like I said, it was I was I'll bring her back. Like, can we come back? And the lady's like, you guys knew what you did when you did it. Like there are other people that want these beds, other people that want to be here. If you guys knew what you did, I can't help you, basically.
Family Dynamics and Luke's Struggles
01:02:40
Speaker
Right.
01:02:45
Speaker
And then he's trying to figure out how to help her, trying to figure out anything he can do. But you just see this different side of Luke and I love it. He's taking care of her. He's trying to talk her down and he's saying, hey, I'll be here for you. Like I'll be here for when you come down off of this.
01:03:10
Speaker
And then he keeps saying that he's cold. He's really cold and everything like that. And we don't really know why. I mean, we can know for a while. We don't really know why. Yeah. Because it's like, I think it's in the middle of summer. It's not that complicated. Yeah. Yeah. And he's just saying he's really cold.
01:03:29
Speaker
And how sad is it that it, I just think it's, sorry, I think it's sad that the symptoms he's having now are like withdrawals, even though he's not messed up. And the reason why he's got those symptoms is like,
01:03:46
Speaker
Horrifying, but you think he's you saying he's charming I I think he's charming in this scene because it's obviously that something's going on with him like physically But he's being very charming. He's being very protective He's like being an older brother and just like a good friend. He's like, yeah, I'm not upset at you I'm not judging you because you relapsed or anything like that. I'm I'm gonna take care of you I'm gonna try to help you as best as I can He's just such a nice guy he's so good
01:04:18
Speaker
And then we get a flashback, I'm assuming to when I think he was like 30 days clean or something. And he's having dinner with Lee and, what's his face, Steve?
01:04:37
Speaker
Oh, is this, so he went over there to try to get, yeah, yeah, you can't skip that part. So he goes to Steve's house and he asks Joe, he asks his friend to like wait, you know, across the street for a second. Let me talk to my brother. Cause they need a place to stay for the night for her to come down for them to just, you know, sleep, have the same place to be.
01:04:57
Speaker
Right. And his brother's like, uh, uh, and then this, this job, no, it's, um, it's, it's, he goes to the house and it's Lee, lay Lee and it's Lee. And she's like, right. She's telling him like, Steve's not here. Yeah. Sorry. He's like, well, can you see here? Yeah. She's like, you know, we can't do that. Um, but that's that part where it like pans over to the dining room and you see,
01:05:27
Speaker
his friend, I heard Joey, right? Sitting at the table and everybody's happy and talking and just having like a really good time. I don't know why, but I thought that that was like some sort of like imaginary sequence where it was like a, what if, what if I was like, what if I hadn't become an addict? Then, you know, this could be like our happy family. Everybody's getting along. And then it wasn't till like much later that I actually realized that was a memory from like two months before.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yeah, two months prior. Yeah. And they're there and Lee's being really nice and friendly and they're just being very open and candid about their experiences, especially with rehab and with everything like that. And Steve is just kind of sitting there
01:06:19
Speaker
not really saying much. He's being very judgy and annoying. Which drives me crazy because he's the one that profits off of all the all the trauma and experiences that they had. Exactly. And now he's setting up the house. High and mighty. Right.
01:06:41
Speaker
And he he says something that Lee like sort of condescending or like judging and she takes it and just turns it into something positive. Do you remember what the question was? No.
01:06:57
Speaker
Oh, um, I can't remember the question, but then, but Joey says, Oh, this place is absolutely amazing. Um, it's a gray house and there's nothing left to do with it, but fill it up with some kids. Um, and then it gets uncomfortable between Lee and Steve. Um,
01:07:18
Speaker
Oh, and then Steve says something about, isn't it the definition of insanity to just keep doing the same thing, hoping for a different result? Because that's what... Oh, referring to them going back to rehab over and over and over again. He's like, why don't you keep doing it? And I loved her answer. So yeah, go ahead. I loved her answer.
01:07:39
Speaker
She says it's different this time around. It's always different. This time she has more support. And she looks at Luke when she says that, and she's just saying,
01:07:52
Speaker
There's so many different things go into it, different groups, different stories you can hear, everything's different, it doesn't matter. And you just keep trying to keep going and just keep doing it. Because when you start that's when you that's when you fail. Because it's not the what he's talking to where you do something over and over expecting a different result. It's like,
01:08:13
Speaker
practice. If you want to learn to play the piano, you have to do it over and over again, because then you gain more skill, you gain more muscle memory, if that makes sense, like you develop your talent. So she's trying to say that going to rehab, each time you learn something new, each time it sticks a little more, each time is laying a foundation for when you're finally able to stick with it and stay clean. But I like how she kind of put Steve in his place.
01:08:42
Speaker
She does and she was very nice about it too and trying to explain it to him. Very nice. Yeah. And then Steven, Luke end up alone and Steve continues on his negative train. And that was the point where I realized, oh, this is a memory, not just like a pipe dream or like not a pipe dream, but like a, like a,
01:09:10
Speaker
I wish this was my life thing. I was like, oh, this actually did happen. I'm smart. Well, sometimes it can be like a little confusing about what is it something that the characters are seeing themselves or how they set up the scene of him just like looking over and seeing her sitting at the table, even though we know she's like across the street outside. Yeah. Smoking a cigarette. But anyway.
01:09:39
Speaker
Um, but Luke is just being feeling very proud of Joey. Um, he feels very happy. Um, and he's saying, Oh, look at this amazing person that I found who's helping me on my journey. And he was doing incredible on hers as well. Um,
01:09:59
Speaker
I just think it's a cool moment because we see the support that she gives Luke and then we see that same support given back to her from Luke. She was there for him and now he's going to be there for her, which is great. Great little piece of character development. And it's so sad because
01:10:22
Speaker
Luke brought Joey with him to his dinner because he wanted to introduce her to his family. He wanted to kind of show her off a little bit to give people a chance to meet her because you feel normal. Yeah, you feel you feel that he feels proud of her and proud to be in her life and everything like that. Yeah. Do you think he idealizes her?
01:10:52
Speaker
probably, but I don't think it affects the way that he sees her.
01:11:01
Speaker
It doesn't make sense. Like he sees her and he's like, oh, that's where I want to be as a good role model. But we don't see when she messes up later on when she relapses, you don't see that judgment. I thought you were better than me. You were supposed to be helping me. You're supposed to be my support. You don't see any of that coming from him. Right.
01:11:25
Speaker
Okay. Um, but Steve is being a butt and he doesn't believe Luke and he doesn't give Joey a chance. Um, and he's just being a pessimist and he thinks Joey is just going to screw Luke over. Um, and
01:11:44
Speaker
knowing what we know, it's heartbreaking because you're like on Luke's side, like, no, like, why are you being such a word? I'm not going to say right now, Steve, like, why, why can't you just be happy for your brother? Why can't you just be there for your brother? Um, but it's also Steve being sort of realistic. And in the end, he's not wrong. No, he's not wrong. Cause 30 days is an achievement, but it's the beginning of your fight.
01:12:14
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't know if Steve actually looks and sees through Joey or if he just was being negative and got lucky and happened to be right. I think he has an idea of her.
01:12:37
Speaker
But I think he kind of puts her up higher on a pedestal than he should. We'll get there. But that scene sucked because you just want Luke to be happy and you want
01:12:55
Speaker
Right. His family would be proud and happy for him. And it's just. Right. That's not what it is. Anyway, we flash back. Steve was the wrong guy to go to for that. Honestly, I think I think he was like the only chance, though, because he was the closest sibling, you know, because I think everyone else is on the East Coast. Right. Well, I don't know where Noah was during that time. Because I think she was on the West Coast as well.
01:13:24
Speaker
if I remember correctly. Anyway. Then we flash forward and Luke is stealing stuff from Steve's apartment and breaking, like trying to find all this stuff. And we see that event through Luke's eyes about when Steve comes to the door and everything.
01:13:48
Speaker
It's like, you can take the camera and sell it and I'll give you $200, but just please give me the iPad. So we see all that from, from Steve's point of view or from Luke's point of view this time around. And Luke does look like he's been using, he does look like he's going through withdrawals or something. Oh, it's heartbreaking.
01:14:16
Speaker
But we haven't seen him use, which is the thing. He hasn't. His symptoms are the twin thing, which is so sad. So we, I think we get this really cool perspective where we believe Luke.
01:14:32
Speaker
We don't think he's used, but we haven't seen him use, so we don't know. So like, are we supposed to be like Steve and think he has been and, or, or what? Like, I think it's a very unique perspective from this. Right. Because when you watch Steve's episode, which I think was the first one, it's a fair conclusion that he had gotten high and he was trying to score more.
01:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. And he was coming down and he needed more. And then with the added information that no, he's actually clean. He's just experiencing the twin thing. And what's happened to his sister is it just, it's, it's sad. Yeah. It's really, really, really sad.
01:15:17
Speaker
There was a quote that was said in the previous memory of the two months ago, where Steve says, just because someone is a good person doesn't mean they won't burn you. And you kind of see it in this moment. Yeah. Like we've seen Luke be a good person. We know he's a good person. Right. Kind of like burning. I think that applies to his friends. It applies to his friend, Joey, too, for what he's about to do. Yeah. Do do do do.
01:15:48
Speaker
He keeps saying he's freezing. Luke keeps saying it's freezing in here. He's saying he's so cold. And his limbs feel dead. I think he said his arms and his legs feel like, what does he say? Like they feel like dead weight or they feel? Like muscle aches or something.
01:16:11
Speaker
Yeah, something like that. But we also saw in the memory about Luke telling Steve about the symptoms of withdrawal, the getting cold and body aches and everything like that. And we see in this scene, Steve asks, Luke, hey, are you cold and stuff like that? So it's clear that Steve probably thinks Luke's been using.
01:16:44
Speaker
Anyway. Luke then leaves Steve's apartment and everything, and he goes to Joe and he's like, Yeah, I've got money. We can go try to find a hotel or something like that, like in a good place, a town like nowhere around here, because this isn't going to be safe. Let's go find a hotel that we can stay at. And they're walking and walking and they stop and have this conversation.
01:17:11
Speaker
about how Joey's kind of thankful for him and it's just it's thankful that she's there for him or he is there for her sorry and they have this kind of cute scene where she kisses Luke and then she goes to Ghost P and my question is
01:17:34
Speaker
100% that kiss was used to steal the money. It wasn't anything she actually meant, right? Absolutely. Maybe she meant it, but she's enough. She was definitely an opportunist in that moment, and she took the money out of his pocket, which if she had asked, he would have just handed it over. Well, not if he suspected she was going to go by substances, maybe not, but yeah. Exactly.
01:18:04
Speaker
I'm sorry. My throat's been so funny lately. I'm sorry. But but she she has been there a while and he calls out to her and he's getting kind of nervous because there's some sketchy people looking in his in his area in his way. He's like, well, let's go. And she doesn't respond. And he goes and looks and realizes that she left and and dipped on him. Yeah. And he just starts wondering about the city.
01:18:32
Speaker
He kind of ran down the alley to try to find her and she was just gone. And then I had this thought. I was like, what if she?
01:18:44
Speaker
What if she wasn't real? I was like, what if this was like an imaginary person situation? I was like, oh no, that doesn't fit because she was at his brother's house. And then this next scene where he's giving his like 30 day speech or 90 day speech and she's sitting there and like,
01:19:12
Speaker
Because I thought it was going to reveal that she wasn't actually there in the meeting where he got his chip. And it was going to reveal that she wasn't in the group therapy either. I don't know what purpose that would have served if she was imaginary. That's where my mind went. And then I was like, oh no, I'm wrong.
01:19:42
Speaker
There, there's no, would have been so pointless. And I would have been mad about it if that actually had happened. Oh yeah. It would have been the things where it just took it. I have been like, that's so cheap. It's so lazy. What are you doing? Yeah. I can't imagine. That reminds me of a Will Smith movie though called Collateral Beauty. Have you seen that?
01:20:11
Speaker
I have seen that, but I don't remember anything about it. I just think it's funny how it ties into what you were saying. Because Bolesmith's character is like writing letters to these like feelings or an animate
01:20:30
Speaker
things as like a form of coping for something that happened and members on the board are like wanting to get rid of him as the head of the board because he's like think he's crazy or something. And so they hire these actors to write letters back and see what
01:20:48
Speaker
he says and everything like that. And we think they're actors and in the end they are the actual feelings or emotions that he's been writing to in the end of just disappearing. I think it's so funny when you actually think about it. And it just made me think about what you were saying. When it happens in the movie, I just remember laughing like, what? What on earth?
01:21:16
Speaker
And you can tell that it was going to be like so profound and people are going to be like, whoa, that's so deep. And you're like, excuse me. Like, come on, that was a waste of time. Now I do know that I've seen it. I just do not remember anything about it.
01:21:35
Speaker
Cause I'm, I'm looking through like the photos on IMDB right now and I'm like, yeah, I watched that. And then I'm like, okay, 2016, but if I watched it in the second half of 2017, which is possible, uh, that's why it doesn't exist in my head anymore. It has a meta score of 23 out of a hundred from critics.
01:21:59
Speaker
That makes sense. That really makes sense. But it has an audience score of 6.8. So people liked that. They thought it was amazing. I kind of want to go watch it again and see how bad it really is. Do you or do you want to watch Buffy?
01:22:20
Speaker
Collateral beauty, for sure. Actually, what I should be watching is Follow the House of Usher. That's what I should be watching. You should be watching Follow the House of Usher so you can be traumatized by episode two like I was. Okay, okay, okay. Oh my gosh. Anyway, back on the show that we are actually supposed to be talking about.
01:22:50
Speaker
This is where we finally get that 90 day speech from Luke. Yes. He actually goes into it. He says one thing that he's never been, he's been called a lot of things, but one thing he's never been called is fearless. Um, and he felt like he was always this scared little boy. And, uh, my heart just broke for him. I know little baby please stop. He was just like a scared little boy.
01:23:17
Speaker
Which is kind of interesting because now he is being fearless by sharing his story and by telling this room full of people about what he has gone through and what his life has been.
Luke's Childhood Trauma and Hope
01:23:34
Speaker
And he talks about being full of hope.
01:23:41
Speaker
Wishing that his mom would come home and she'd be in one of these, in these cars that kept passing. Oh my gosh, I cried. I think I cried. Because he said he just for years, every car that passed by, he was weighed and every, we know that feeling of like anticipation of waiting, of expecting, and then the letdown every single time the car, like he said that.
01:24:05
Speaker
every time a car would come close to where he was. Like I think at his uncle's house, aunt's house. He thought his mom was gonna step out of the car because he didn't understand what dying meant. Yeah. And so it was like a letdown every single time a car went by. And his mom didn't come home. I just can't imagine having your heart break every single day for years. Because she never stepped out of the car.
01:24:37
Speaker
Oh, it's so sad. And he talks about how she never came back. But things from his childhood did. And they kept following him around. And he says, I guess that's why I started using the first place. So we get that we get that the things from his childhood followed him. Literally, he was using to try to get them out of his life.
01:25:01
Speaker
Yeah, like literally because it was it before this scene or after the scene that he's like trying to get away from the man with the cane. It's while he's telling this story, he's walking around the city, he gets beat up, he gets jumped, he's now jacketless, he's shoeless, and he looks like a junkie, he looks like he's been using or he's in withdrawals or something. And he's just trying to escape, he's just trying to
01:25:32
Speaker
He's just trying to get away from it. And every time he turns around, every time he turns around is there every time. And we start thinking he's getting a little more crazy because he starts counting one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. He just keeps doing that over and over. We think, man, you've lost it. Like he's got to be using. We see that perspective from everyone else, seeing him. And we also get a little bit later his perspective.
01:25:59
Speaker
How creepy was it that the man in the hat has his back turned every single time? Every single time? Every single time he gets facing away. Like, I don't know what would be scarier seeing the front or just that he's always turned around. And then he was like walking and the man was like floating in step with him. And then he would turn around and look at it. Oh, I was gonna say, do you think the
01:26:29
Speaker
he stands for it he resembles something what what what do you think the thematic oh i don't know if i can think that deep uh i think it perhaps is his guilt his guilt that follows him maybe um guilt for
01:26:53
Speaker
screwing over his family multiple times because he says it in the next in that very next piece of dialogue. He's like, I've screwed my family over countless number of times. I've stolen money from them. I've done all this. So it could be that it could be guilt for not being.
01:27:10
Speaker
fearless enough for the rest of his family, for his twin sister Nell to try to protect them at all. So that could potentially be what it is. It could be his guilt. It doesn't specifically say it, but I think that's something it could stand for. Yeah. So. Yeah. Anyway, he keeps following him.
01:27:40
Speaker
And it's just, it's over and over and over and over. He's counting one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Um, and he's like, I never knew what it felt.
01:27:54
Speaker
for my family when I whenever I did that whenever I let them down whenever I disappointed them and stole from them and took from them and he's like oh I hope I never know and we now know he does because Joey screwed him over stole money that he was trying to help them and everything and you know he's he knows what it's like to
01:28:20
Speaker
really trust and hope that someone's gonna be better and that you can help them out and they just, they screw you over. It's very sad. That's kind of why I think he idolizes her a little bit. He put her above him in that he looked up to her that she was gonna be better than him, but at the end she's still just a person who has an addiction.
01:28:47
Speaker
He's probably taking it really hard. And it's something that's not helping at all what he's going through. He's also going through these, what looked like symptoms of withdrawal. Right.
01:29:04
Speaker
And now the speech is over and we're fully following him in present day and he calls the rehab and he says he just needs somewhere to stay. He said he'll take a mattress. He'll sleep on the floor if he has to. He's like, I swear I haven't been using. I just need somewhere to stay and.
01:29:27
Speaker
the first time watching this, do you think he was being truthful? And he was like, you didn't think he was using? Okay. Yeah, I do. I mean, I follow him around like that whole sequence and all his symptoms, you know, if you're going to follow the, the, what the show is explaining that he has a twin thing with his sister and we already know that she's died by hanging and he keeps rubbing his neck. He keeps feeling cold.
01:29:54
Speaker
he keeps feeling like his limbs are I can't remember exactly what he said like they're they're heavy I think he says heavy like they shouldn't work or something but I at this point yeah I take him at his word that he he didn't use okay also why would he like
01:30:20
Speaker
lie you know yeah plus he takes the he takes he uses the substances to get away from his ghosts and that one is literally following him around yeah he can't ignore it so i don't think he's high
01:30:41
Speaker
But it's easy for someone to see or to think that that's right. That's what that's that's also the outside perspective. So we have the inside perspective that he's going through something completely different. And then there's the outside perspective of he's a druggy. He's a junkie. He's an addict.
01:31:02
Speaker
And he specifically says to his caseworker page, he's like, I'm, I'm so cold. Like my legs and arms are stiff. Yeah, stiff. That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. The particular word. And she doesn't really care about any of that. She's just like, we need to come get you. Where are you? There's like something happened. Like we need to come get you. So we assume that.
01:31:30
Speaker
He tells them where they are and everything like that. And then he starts counting again. We don't know why he's counting. And then it flashes back to young Luke and now is awake and she's, she's sitting upright and she's obviously scared by something. And Lucas, I guess the bedneck lady again, um,
01:31:52
Speaker
And this is such a such a good woman. He comes over to her and he knows that she's scared because obviously he can tell you that's a twin thing.
01:32:06
Speaker
And in an effort to try to help her not be scared anymore. And I guess to give her a way to protect herself and his eyes, he says, Oh, what you can do is you can count to seven here. Here are seven buttons, count each of them, and it's going to protect you. Um, and by the way, it was a cool little detail back.
01:32:30
Speaker
Previously in the episode, he is. Drawing or something, and he has a picture of that zombie. And he has seven army guys stacked around. Oh, yeah. Little picture anyway. What went went went to the third button finally fall out because it did. Didn't it?
01:32:55
Speaker
I did. I just think it was delayed. Yeah, it was delayed. I just don't remember which part in the episode it finally fell out. Yeah. But then Luke says. You count seven for the entire family, it's mom, dad and all of her siblings, and that way you're always going to have them. They're always going to protect you, which is so heartbreaking. It's so sad because even though he thinks that they're always going to protect them, we see that sometimes
01:33:27
Speaker
He felt like they were never there for them. They were never there for him. And no one really believed him, except for now, really. But that's why he's always count to seven because he's counting each of those and he thinks that he hopes it's going to protect him. And now it's the superstitious thing that he does.
01:33:51
Speaker
And we go back to present day and he's walking up and down the street repeating this one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. And he keeps seeing the man and he turns around and eventually we see
01:34:06
Speaker
that he stops walking. We see the floating man float all the way right behind his back and Luke turns around and it's his mother in like ghost form. And
01:34:25
Speaker
She's like, come home, I think I think is what she said. She said, come home. I think it was something very, very quick and simple. And then it turns into the headlights of the car and Steve gets out. Luke goes over and gives him a big hug and he's like, I couldn't help her. I couldn't I couldn't save her like all this kind of stuff. And it's so symbolic because he's talking about Joey.
01:34:49
Speaker
But he's also talking about his mom and he's also talking about his sister. Yeah, but he doesn't know about Mel yet. Right. He just keeps saying my arms and legs are so stiff. I didn't use I'm he's very confused about why he's feeling like this because he knows this feeling is like symptoms of withdrawal. But he's like, I didn't use I didn't I didn't do anything like I don't know why I'm feeling like this. What's going on? And.
01:35:19
Speaker
Um, Steve breaks it to him that Nell was dead and that she killed herself. And then he's like, it looks like he's in thought and he's thinking. And then, uh, and Luke, Luke says it was an accident or something like that. And then, I'm sorry, Steve says it was an accident or something. And Luke is like, no, it wasn't. And then the episode ends.
01:35:47
Speaker
Oh, no, it wasn't. Oh, so we know something. What does he know? And is he right? Oh, goodness. I can't wait for the next one. It's going to be Nels episode, huh? Yep. That's Nels. Yeah. So.
01:36:13
Speaker
Anything you wanted to add? Anything you wanted to say now that we've reached the end of the episode?
Rating and Character Analysis
01:36:18
Speaker
Are we ranking Luke? Are we giving him a score at a, what have we been doing? Like a score out of 10. Let's go a score out of 10. I think.
01:36:36
Speaker
Are you, are you keeping both of ours down because I haven't been writing yours down. No, that's your job. I'm just looking back at what I gave the other characters. So I had given Steve a 6.5 and then what's the oldest sister's name? Surely.
01:37:03
Speaker
I give her like a seven and then I gave Theo an eight and then here's Luke. I think I'm gonna give him the same like an eight. Okay.
01:37:14
Speaker
is based off of like, I don't know, nothing. I don't have any like science behind rating the characters, but I like his character as a child. Like just tiny little Luke is my favorite. He's so adorable and so haunted. Like he just like looking through his glasses, like, yeah, just super cute. And like, I think
01:37:42
Speaker
um I don't know and then as an adult with everything he's had to cope with I'd be surprised that if he wasn't on the path that he's on right now he's had to deal with a lot and I think he's effect like feeling the residual effects of what Nell went through because Luke and Nell are like the most messed up out of all five of them
01:38:07
Speaker
So I think he's getting like the residuals of what she's dealt with, and I think Nell dealt with the most, which we'll find out next episode, I think. So I'd be surprised if he wasn't turning out that way. Right. I think I'm going to give him like an 8.5.
01:38:27
Speaker
I guess the only negative thing you could kind of say is, oh, he's an addict. But we know that's not entirely... He was just trying to find a way to cope with everything. It is true. He is. And when you're in the throes of addiction, no matter what it is that starts it, that's your whole focus. You don't care about people. You don't care about anything other than keeping yourself well, as they say.
01:38:55
Speaker
So yeah, you're going to take advantage of situations. You're going to steal if you have to. You're going to do morally ambiguous things to fuel your addiction because that's all your brain wants. But I just it's hard for me to find fault on him because we know everything that's happened and we know why. And it's no reason to dehumanize somebody. Yeah. And you see him trying to be a good brother and a good twin to now and to be right.
01:39:26
Speaker
like protective and therefore and help her as much as he can. And you see him trying to do the same for Joey. He's Yeah, he was being really good. He wasn't even trying to get drugs. He wasn't falling prey to that again. He was just trying to get some money to put her in a hotel or something to help her come down to make sure she was safe. And
01:39:53
Speaker
You just, he's, you just see that he's an innately good human being and he's trying to be this good person. Um, and he just like just keeps kicking him and he can't get away from his childhood demons. Um, I, let me ask you for him. Yeah. Do you think he should have been let allowed into the wedding? Oh, that's such a hard question.
01:40:23
Speaker
I don't know. You think you, you think you should have. I'd have to say he shouldn't have been there in the state that he was in. It wasn't a good thing. It would have taken the focus of her day and it would have been turned on to him, which.
01:40:49
Speaker
But the lesser of those two evils of her being sad that her brother wasn't there was a better choice than him going in the state that he was in. Yeah. Yeah, he shouldn't have been there. But it sucks because it hurts. It does. It broke her heart that he took. For her perspective, he didn't even show up. Yeah.
01:41:20
Speaker
But it would have been a bad situation if he had been allowed to be there. I wonder where that fell during his rehab. I wonder if it was in between. Probably before that, of course. Yeah.
01:41:47
Speaker
like well before that I think I think he may have done a couple of stints and rehabs failed and then I don't know it's just a speculation but is there anything that you really liked about this episode or anything that you hated
01:42:09
Speaker
I liked how scary it was, but I hated how scary it was. I liked that it could scare me. I appreciate that. I respect that it could get emotions out of me. It made me cry. And nothing I like hated, hated. It was done really well. Yeah. Yeah.
01:42:36
Speaker
I really liked his speech, his 90 day speech. Me too. That was really good. Me too. But like you, there's nothing that I hated. I mean, Alonca's not in this series, so, you know. Right. Steve is the new Alonca. Steve is the new Alonca. I hated Steve this episode. He was a jerk. He didn't believe his brother. He wasn't supportive.
01:43:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's just his attitude towards all the things that he didn't experience firsthand. Is it better to be realistic or supportive? Because we see that he was right about Joey. Believe but verify. That's that's all I hear. If he didn't believe it, fine. You don't believe it. Cool. You don't have to. But to capitalize on that, to write a book and make money off of it is what
01:43:31
Speaker
I think ticks off everybody in the family.
Critique of Steve's Actions
01:43:34
Speaker
And it pisses me off too. Because the audacity of publishing books based on their trauma, while invalidating their feelings and experiences all along the way. And then having like this supposed moral high ground where you're dealing, oh, I've got an addict brother, here we go again. Like, are you kidding me?
01:43:59
Speaker
It's a little redeemable when he goes to pick up Luke to let him know about Nell, but not by much. No. No, that in itself isn't much. Are you ready for Corey's comments? Now it's time for Corey's comments.
01:44:27
Speaker
So he's actually gotten really into the story of it. So not a lot of talking happens. At the very, very end, I'm going to go for my, my, I'm going to save my favorite quote from him for last. There's only two, but at the very end of the episode when Luke says it wasn't an accident.
01:44:47
Speaker
He said, the ghosts came for her. Wait, the man with the cane came. Wait, no. The crooked head lady. I love that. I love that the crooked head lady. And then back where we have the scene with the floating man where so the scene is Luke is under the bed and all he sees are the shoes floating in the air.
01:45:23
Speaker
He says, those are some nice shoes.
01:45:37
Speaker
Nobody's looking at the shoes. You're like, Holy crap. There's a scary floating man coming into the kid's room. What's going to happen? This is terrifying. He's like, those are nice shoes. Nice shoes, man. Nice shoes. Oh my goodness. Do you have any, any final thoughts?
01:46:06
Speaker
Nope, solid episode gives us a lot more information, a lot more insight into things that we didn't know before. And looking forward to next episode.
01:46:17
Speaker
me too and next episode is titled the bent neck lady oh i'm sorry it's the crooked head the crooked head lady it's now the bent neck lady yep yeah um after that episode we will be officially halfway done with haunting the hill house
01:46:39
Speaker
That's the Quarry Commons theme song. That's actually the Mario theme song. There is no copyright at all. Not if I stop there. But yeah, I don't think I have anything else. So that being said. Nope. Good times. Tune in next week. Thank you again, Laura, for being here. Please. Thank you, Noah, for all your hard work.
01:47:08
Speaker
And thank you to everybody listening. You know, I don't know if I would call it hard work. I just watch it and write down my thoughts. You're the one who actually does research.
01:47:23
Speaker
You're overestimating my effort put in here, but if it works, it works. My ADHD self is happy. Getting the most out of doing the least. There you go. I get the most out of doing the least, so. Correct. That's my theme for my life.
01:47:48
Speaker
Oh, again, thank you everyone for listening.
Engagement with Listeners on Instagram
01:47:51
Speaker
Go follow us. Go like, subscribe, do all the things we appreciate. Uh, yep. We're just on Instagram at this point. Fans of Flan again. I think that's the only one with that title. Um, come find us. Follow, listen, share, and thank you. Goodbye. Bye.
01:48:26
Speaker
you