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185- Don't worry: Prince William will save the 500,000 Korean dogs...
0 Playsin 7 hours
In a week where Prince William has been slammed by PETA for allowing his dog to breed, and where South Korean farmers continue to find difficulty to rehome the half a million dogs they'll soon be punished for owning, Mark comes up with the perfect solution.!
Also in this episode, Kate, Mark & Ant look at seven other snippets from the last 7 days that are from the animal rights / vegan space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/the-vegan-society-exhibition-veganism/
https://vegoutmag.com/news/nat-how-many-people-are-going-plant-based-in-2025-heres-what-the-data-says/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/06/17/uk-trade-deal-with-gulf-states-could-lower-animal-welfare-standards/
https://www.farminguk.com/news/britain-loses-nearly-200-dairy-farms-in-past-year-alone_66796.html
https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/25261042.salmon-facing-difficulty-reaching-sea-river-itchen/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/06/25/iceland-will-not-kill-whales-in-2025/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14850343/Peta-reaction-William-Kate-allowed-dog-puppies.html
https://www.thejournal.ie/farmers-back-eu-commission-proposal-that-would-ban-vegetarian-products-using-terms-like-burger-6743871-Jun2025/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20r7lkel68o
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Kate, Mark & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction & Humor with Vegan News
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony, I'm here with Kate and Mark, but that is enough of the falafel. Let's get on with vegan week.
00:00:12
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Take your flat grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry. they They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:31
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick them.
00:00:39
Speaker
social injustice has connection another that's just what people think vegans eat anyway as long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all right does veganism give him superpowers
00:00:55
Speaker
i cannot fly around the city i don't have laser vision Hi everyone, you are listening to Vegan Week.
New Show Format & News Highlights
00:01:01
Speaker
My name is Mar. Hi everyone, great to be here. It's Kate with you.
00:01:05
Speaker
This is our new show and we're going to look through last week's vegan and animal rights news. But that's enough of the falafel. Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:19
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:31
Speaker
Okay, you won't have heard this because I'll have polished this perfectly, but we've had an interesting start to the show with everybody messing their bits
Veganism History & The Vegan Society
00:01:38
Speaker
up. So let's start off with a nice positive, simple story.
00:01:42
Speaker
Mark's going to give us his take on it. It is the news that the biggest ever exhibition on the history of veganism is opening in the UK. It is courtesy of the Vegan Society. It is available to be seen in Birmingham, Birmingham, UK. This is not Alabama. Their library in the center of the city. It's celebrating the Vegan Society's 80th year of operations.
00:02:07
Speaker
There's an interactive exhibition called Veganism, Past, Present and Future. It explores the history of veganism, examines the contemporary movement and also makes predictions about how plant-based and meat-free lifestyles might change in the future. And there's an interesting, if you follow the link in the show notes, there's an embedded YouTube clip with this sort of AI thing where you can, or virtual reality thing where you can wander around and see just sheep wandering around and and unencumbered by fences and all all things like this.
00:02:42
Speaker
But it's running from May the 17th. So it's already been up for a month. and running until August the 23rd. Mark, you're coming over to Ireland at some point, but I don't know if you're gonna make it to Birmingham to see this in person, but nonetheless, it looks really, really cool. Like, good for them. oh it's ah It's really impressive. So the the Vegan Society in its formal sense has been going since 1944, so years, something years.
00:03:10
Speaker
So in in less than than the lifespan of the average human, at least on this side of the planet, the vegan society has gone from not existing at all to being ah a prominent, very strong force in society.
00:03:23
Speaker
So in less than the span of a human life, it's revolutionized. society in a sense, I think. we we are We are blessed with with the fact that it it is it is referred to as veganism and the vegan society because big before they coined the phrase, and it is a made up word as all words are, and it was made up in 1944 by Donald Watson and his wife, apparently, where they took the first two letters and the last two letters of the word vegetarian and got rid of the middle bit.
00:03:53
Speaker
and came up with the word vegan. But prior to settling on that word, there was and there was a number of other words that were offered up, and I'm going to read them out now, and we can thank our lucky stars that they picked the word vegan, because otherwise we we might be known as Dairy Banners, Benivores, Pythagoranists, Grahamites, Vitans, Bumangors,
00:04:19
Speaker
Sany Vores, Neo vegetarians, or a word that was coined by some random journalist in ah in an article in the Irish press in 1949 about the only vegan in Ireland at that time.
00:04:35
Speaker
And they referred to her as a super vegetarian, which is my favorite. if if if If it isn't going to be vegan, then I'd like to be known as a super vegetarian, please. Yeah, with a cape and special powers.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll be consistently referred to as a super all the time, but but even by my enemies. so ah so So they settled on the word vegan.
00:04:59
Speaker
As I say, it has transformed from ah very niche, lifestylist type of um social movement into a highly potent political political force.
00:05:11
Speaker
I'd say the turnaround came during the probably 70s and 80s as media became more democratized and information about the horrors of dairy farming and meat farming became more widely known and more accepted amongst the general populace.
00:05:26
Speaker
So ah I wasn't aware there was a specific link with Birmingham and veganism other than that Donald Watson was from Birmingham or from somewhere near Birmingham. And of course, the late, great Benjamin Zephaniah, who passed away about six six or nine months ago, was also from Birmingham.
00:05:44
Speaker
The last and probably one of the few times I saw Benjamin Zephaniah performing was on stage with Conflict. who are, of course, a well-known anarcho-punk band whose main singer and main man himself passed away about a month ago.
00:05:59
Speaker
So Colin Jerwood, the singer and antagonist behind Conflict, the band, passed away suddenly at the age of 63, halfway through a book about his life, just after releasing an album and halfway through a tour.
00:06:12
Speaker
so uh benjamin zephaniah and colin jerwood from conflict were great friends uh and and their their passing is a is a massive loss to vegans everywhere i think but uh more more our power to the vegan society i love them and and i love what they do and uh and here's to another 80 years yeah absolutely great to great to celebrate and i well acknowledge our history and like you say there is a history there you know we're not just a tin pot bedroom centric ah yeah idea or concept or whatever that that's not got any wheels or momentum.
Dairy Industry Trends & Challenges
00:06:44
Speaker
So yeah, good for that. And check that out if you are in the area. It's not too far from me. I really ought to go and check it out, hadn't I?
00:06:51
Speaker
Let's move on to another story that I think on the face of it might look positive, but there might be a different way of looking at it too. It's certainly a shift in patterns and trends. It comes to us from Farming UK k where the headline reads,
00:07:05
Speaker
Britain loses nearly 200 dairy farms in the past year alone. ah This is according to new figures by the AHDB, the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board.
00:07:19
Speaker
The estimated number of dairy producers in the GB stood at just over 7,000. So that is a drop of 160 since the previous survey in October.
00:07:31
Speaker
So on an annual basis, That's a reduction of around 190 producers or 2.6% contraction compared to April of last year.
00:07:42
Speaker
They say that this has been an ongoing trend with industry exits typically occurring before winter housing. And additional input requirements. God, they make it sound like just machines, don't they? Like no mention of living animals there.
00:07:58
Speaker
So yeah, we we we have seasonal fluctuation there, but it does seem to be an annual trend. You can see more figures if you follow the link in the show notes. But Kate, what what popped into my mind when I saw this was it's mentioning that actually milk consumption is not necessarily changing.
00:08:14
Speaker
It's just the number of farms that are producing that same amount of milk is going down. So if you do a basic bit of maths, going realise that actually there's more cows per farm than there were before, which I mean, can we say that one is better than the other? But I i would argue, it I don't think it can be good news that the same amount of milk consumption is being done on a smaller number of farms, surely.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, on the face of it, I was like, oh, great, woohoo, more people leaving the the dairy industry. But unfortunately, yeah, if you if you delve a little deeper, I mean, we all know, and I hear so many people say, oh you know, it's on the edge, they're they're really, they're struggling to make a profit.
00:09:00
Speaker
And actually, if it wasn't for all the subsidies dairy farmers were receive then it would be completely untenable anyway so apparently dairy farmers risk about 39 to 45 percent of their business income net business income is from subsidies in england scotland 55 percent wales 33 percent northern ireland 41 if they those went you know they'd they'd be struggling well like they couldn't they couldn't
00:09:32
Speaker
the ah sustain themselves, could they? Yeah, so i had a look, and apparently, cow milk sales to the general public have actually dropped by 6% in the last three years.
00:09:47
Speaker
And one in the three households are now buying plant milk. which is great news, isn't it? But actually, yeah despite a lot of farmers giving up dairy farmer farming, they're actually expecting milk production to increase by 3% this year, the figures that I found.
00:10:05
Speaker
And the average herd size is, like you say, Anthony, I'm afraid, have risen from 185 cows to about 219 over past decade. carols to about two hundred and nineteen over the past decade We also know that there's some mega farms on the rise too, don't we, where cows are not allowed outside at all. And, you know, they there are not that many, I dare say that's the way this industry is going to go Also, shockingly, i mean, you probably know this, Taps, but I didn't realise, knew that cows are forced to produce more milk than they used to. But in the it was about
00:10:42
Speaker
it was about per cow, 4,000 litres per year, and now it's 8,000 litres, which is horrendous, isn't it? That is just horrendous.
00:10:53
Speaker
They don't put that on the carton, do they? No, they do not. But even worse, so they're actually yeah therere so they're expecting production to go up even more for different reasons. And you think, well, hang on, if people are actually drinking less milk, where's this milk going? you know And it is going into cheese, which is going to exports and into food production, apparently. All the extra milk that British consumers are not having. Well, we've seen in the US s as well that um very often if dairy is not being sold, um so there's not the demand for it, the government will basically buy it off the farmers and it will it will just be wasted.
00:11:36
Speaker
But they they don't want the farmers to to get into debt or to to have a shortfall so that, you know, it's taxpayer money is basically just bailing out the fact that there's no demand for it or there's lower than expected demand. It's...
Ethical Concerns & Future of Plant-Based Alternatives
00:11:49
Speaker
Absolutely. it's like Yeah, they're literally pouring it down the drain, aren't they?
00:11:54
Speaker
But can I just say there's something that just popped up in my news feed, which I don't know if either of you have seen, but they're actually, rather than reducing milk production, companies are actually seeking calciferase to increase it. And have either of you heard of the UK company Antler Bio? Yeah.
00:12:14
Speaker
because they have just raised £3 million pounds for advancing livestock farming through gene expression. And that particularly they're looking at cows.
00:12:25
Speaker
And so they're using epigenetics to make cows produce even higher volumes of nutritious, better quality milk. helping farmers earn better prices while supposedly promoting healthier cows, although how that can possibly like be the case?
00:12:44
Speaker
Well, so, you know, the the poor creatures are already struggling with the massive volumes that they produce now. But that they're saying that the average return on investment to the farmer is more than seven to one. And they're hoping to scale across thousands of farms.
00:13:01
Speaker
They've already done it in about 100. I think they've trialled it in about 100 farms or something. So just when you thought, well, when I thought that dairy is on the back foot and give it a push, it's going to go...
00:13:15
Speaker
No, they're trying to go the other way. Won't go out without a fight, will they? That's for sure. yeah Yeah, sort of really regarding what what do farmers do with with the milk that isn't that isn't viable on the actual market?
00:13:28
Speaker
In Ireland, at least when I was signing on the Dole there, this is many years back, you would get on top of your rent allowance and your Dole money, you would get a butter voucher. So you would get a voucher that you could only swap for butter in any shop. And if you and if you didn't eat butter, then you'd swap them with someone who did and they'd give you money tobacco or something like this.
00:13:50
Speaker
So the the way they they get around that is by is by insisting that the taxpayer Buy all their excess produce off them and stuff it in summer, give it free to kids, give up butter vouchers to the poor, give out ah government cheese over in the United States. There's a thing called government cheese, which is just that. If you're if you're on benefits, then one of those benefits is free cheese because there's too much of it.
00:14:14
Speaker
So they had a stranglehold on the economy that is that that that is the envy of any corporation around the world, would say. Goodness me. Well, i mean, it's ah the one grain of comfort that I i took from that story, Kate, is when we were reviewing the the book Regenesis by George Monbiot, he does a whole chapter on complex systems and simple systems.
00:14:37
Speaker
And actually, if though if there are fewer farms, then they've arguably those farms have arguably got bigger marketing budgets and they can do bigger lobbying.
00:14:48
Speaker
Actually, it's easier for a smaller network of farms to crumble than if actually all of the farms... providing things with tiny little operations that would be much harder to weed out. Whereas if there's just a few big companies, then that that system can arguably crumble a bit quicker. But maybe i'm being um'm I'm being overly hopeful there. But certainly an interesting story. Thank you for that one.
00:15:13
Speaker
I'm going to hold on to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. going hold on to that. Thank you. Yeah. Wow. Crumbs of comfort. We're going to move on to a story from Veg Out Mag. I don't believe we have done anything from them before.
00:15:27
Speaker
And they've released a story this week that is based on data that kind of came to light at the turn of the year. So it's kind of Slightly old news in a sense, but we don't get many studies or stories giving us data about how many people are vegan, how many people are wanting to be vegan and things like that.
00:15:46
Speaker
So I thought we'd focus in on it. The headlines that they give are basically that people want to eat more plants or they're saying they want to eat more plants.
00:15:57
Speaker
They're not necessarily following through. Not necessarily surprising, but good to see that the intention is there. So Finder's 2025 diet survey projects that 6.4% of UK adults, which is about 3.4 million people, plan to follow a vegan diet this year, whilst 11.5%, that's just over 6 million, expect to stay vegetarian.
00:16:24
Speaker
So those numbers translate to more than one in six adults planning to live meat free which they say positions the UK near the top of Europe's plant forward leaderboard.
00:16:36
Speaker
Interestingly, analysts estimate about 79 million people now identify as vegan across the world. The article goes on to talk about market projections throughout the next decade.
00:16:49
Speaker
10 years. They reckon the global plant-based food sector could grow from 14 billion at the moment up to 44 billion in the next 10 years.
00:17:01
Speaker
And interestingly, health still ranks number one amongst personal motivators, amongst those they've spoken to. Mark, you've had a little look at this. What were your main takeaways from this?
00:17:13
Speaker
Okay, so so in in terms of consistency, the the numbers are are a thing are staying fairly steady and steadily increasing. So you've got your six and a half million adults in the UK who now identify as vegan. There are a number of categories to sort of bear in mind. There is the people who who are vegan, who are vegetarian, who are actively flexitarian.
00:17:35
Speaker
And then there's a cohort of people who associate with those trends, but maybe aren't quite there yet. So they're Vegetarian, but not quite vegan, but they intend to be vegan over the next year or two and so on.
00:17:47
Speaker
There was a very interesting study done a number of years back in Ireland when the government noticed a slip in the demand for animal bits and pieces. and they wanted to in investigate that. So they did a major study that was backed by the EU that was also repeated in six other countries in the EU, I think including Holland, Belgium, Ireland. I think China was in there for some reason, and there's a few other countries.
00:18:13
Speaker
and And the results were... So the ah test the study study was done in 2018 and again in 2021. and the And the results showed ah ah double or triple fold increase in people who either were vegan or whoent who associated with veganism and also with vegetarianism.
00:18:33
Speaker
With flexitarianism, it was a threefold increase. So if you were to add all those numbers together, say vegetarianism, this year in 2025, all the people who are vegan or who aspire to be vegan and so on, vegetarian and flexitarianism, this constitutes about half of the population in any given country.
00:18:52
Speaker
ah country, which is a massive voting bloc if it was all to vote together. So it is very inspiring to see this sort of happen. they're there We are drip-fed negative stories about veganism from the likes of the Daily Mail about a vegan restaurant closing down or a food brand being discontinued or something like this.
00:19:12
Speaker
And there are scare stories designed to denigrate veganism. the The real ah figures to keep an eye on or these are these growing trends and this growing increase in veganism, between now and 2035, there will be maybe twice or more of the amount of vegans around in our society. and when and when And when you consider the cut-through that we have had on 5% or 6% uptake with the amount and the availability of vegan food in restaurants and in
00:19:43
Speaker
in super parks and so on, there's been such a huge increase on 5% or 6%, could you imagine what the the visibility of veganism would would be if it was 10% or 12% of the population were vegans.
00:19:54
Speaker
So double that again. Double the amount of vegan restaurants in London, double the amount of space being taken up by vegan food in the fridges and supermarkets, all this. so we're we're We're nearing a tipping point where this stuff will really begin to command ah legislation and the direction of commerce.
00:20:15
Speaker
But by the time that my kids are a little bit older and are voting age, they will hopefully be living in a world that is dramatically more vegan than it was when I was starting out on this journey back at the end of the 1980s.
Vegan Visibility & Environmental Concerns
00:20:28
Speaker
So it is very, very hopeful to see these figures.
00:20:30
Speaker
And it's nice to see it being being confirmed again and again. that there's There's loads of reports that are coming out that are saying more or less the same things in terms of numbers and terms of uptake. So it's pretty solid and it's pretty solid information.
00:20:43
Speaker
And yeah, it's ah it's it's a very happy thing to read. Yeah, goodness. And the way you commented on that, with I was feeling myself feeling uplifted too, Mark. So um yeah, yeah, that's a really, really positive picture.
00:20:56
Speaker
Up the revolution, up the revolution and tipping points. Very, very pertinent there. it Yeah, we don't have to wait till there's 70% of us for to see meaningful change. It's ah surprisingly soon and when you look at,
00:21:09
Speaker
societal change in these things, isn't it? Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Let's go from the macro to the micro. but the For the salmon involved in this story, of course, this is their whole existence, but this is a very specific thing that is going on in Southampton on the south coast of England. This story comes to us from the Southern Daily Echo, where they report that smolt, which is another word for young salmon, they are facing difficulty reaching the sea from the river that they are living in, the River Itchin.
00:21:44
Speaker
um So they need to travel downstream each spring, as all salmon do. I know a listener is going to write in and say, not all salmon do that or something because I'm i'm ignorant about this. But anyway, ah i'll I'll give my knowledge and people can build upon that and correct it. But basically, what whilst they're trying to make this journey downstream, there are structures along the lower river, the River itching in Southampton that are impeding their journey which is obviously therefore putting the population at risk.
00:22:15
Speaker
Now the Environment Agency has launched a study to explore how to improve this and support the salmon's migration and someone from the Environment Agency has noted that actually the structure and the flow of this river itching has really changed in the past 10 years. The flow is diverting um And there's also kind of changes in the the water controls, the infrastructure that's having this impact.
00:22:42
Speaker
I mean, Kate, like i say, that for for these salmon, they see this is crucial. This is critical. A grain of comfort is the fact that people are noticing this. They're launching a study. They're commenting on it. It's in the newspaper. It it shows that people do have an innate care.
00:23:00
Speaker
about these things. It's just about harnessing that and and and preventing things like this happening. You're such a lovely person, Anthony. You've got such a positive view of people. I'm sure that's true. But also, you've got a lot of fishermen fishing on that river, and apparently they can pay £180 chance catch a chance to catch salmon so ah guess they're noticing um oh the drop in salmon numbers as well although there is a catch and release policy if you catch a salmon salmon you must release it I don't know ah sometimes I just think we're gonna navel gaze ourselves to death you know with all these particular studies on what's going wrong with um animals wild animals and things so and um
00:23:49
Speaker
You know, surely, yeah, it's kind of obvious. There's dams and weirs. There's like too much water extraction up ah upstream probably for for animal agriculture and growing, and um you know, foods for animals and all the rest of it.
00:24:05
Speaker
But so Atlantic salmon, theyre apparently they're um they like a red flag for the health of the broader ecosystem and what ecologists call a keystone or indicator species.
00:24:19
Speaker
And, you know, their demise, you know, it signals like deeper problems. like, for example, pollution in the river. And we've all heard about that, haven't we? You know, the climate stress, disrupted flows and habitat loss, and all of which is impacting on the salmon. And, you know, a lot of wetlands have been drained and things like that. so And they like buffer the the the rainfall into the river.
00:24:49
Speaker
So apparently it's not just... the UK that's having these problems. It's all over Europe. And I think only Norway and Iceland are not having problems with their Atlantic salmon.
00:25:05
Speaker
So they are getting ah wildlife trusts and people like that involved and local people as well, I guess, for, you know, monitoring the river and perhaps habitat reconstruction in places. But honestly, just stop eating animals and that will have a big and stop eating fish. I mean, one of the major problems that they don't manage mention, of course, is Atlantic fish.
00:25:31
Speaker
salmon are bred in massive massive numbers for consumption and there's such big issues with with those and cross you know giving diseases and things to the wild salmon and so many issues with that why don't we like focus on those things as well you know if you really want to make a difference I don't know ah so i said I'm on a moan today I'm so sorry Well, we've we've given you some negative stories to to focus on. I think my point with regards to but people actually do care is that so sometimes you will see structures or or features that have been built into the landscape or in a city's infrastructure. And it's like, oh, this is here but to help the
00:26:17
Speaker
hedgehogs cross the road or or or things like that. And i I think though we shouldn't have got in the way of their habitat in the first place, like having things like that and helping that educate people or raise awareness, it it kind of normalizes it more. But yeah, having knobhead fishermen who just want to catch something to throw it back. When you said that um about the legislation that, you know, if you catch salmon, you have to throw it back. i was like, that wouldn't really wash for if you just abducted someone.
00:26:46
Speaker
You're just like, well, I gave them back. You know, I just drove them around in the boot of my car for a couple of hours with a bag on their head. Like, the you know, that and i wouldn't wash, would it? No, we it wouldn't.
00:26:57
Speaker
And also, yeah, we now after that lovely report the other week, we know how much... how much they suffer when they're caught as well. so Yeah, absolutely.
Trade Deals & Animal Welfare Implications
00:27:07
Speaker
Not that we didn't know anyway, but, you know, but hey. no yeah I've also quickly educated myself whilst you were giving your response there, Kate, and found that, of of course, there are salmon farms where salmon aren't swimming upstream or downstream, um but they're all...
00:27:22
Speaker
there are also some types of salmon that do not do not swim upstream or downstream. So hold your emails, listeners, hold your emails. Let's move on away from salmon.
00:27:33
Speaker
The Animal Reader have given us this next story. I'd recommend you to check out theanimalreader.com if you've never seen their website. I think they generally have some good stuff. They're reporting this week that the UK trade deal with the so-called Gulf states could lower animal welfare standards.
00:27:51
Speaker
The deal is reported to be about £1.6 billion pounds and would allow the import of chicken meat from Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.
00:28:05
Speaker
And this is interesting, Mark. We've covered stories like this before. it kind of On the face of it, we can sort of tangibly say, well, there are lower animal welfare standards in these countries.
00:28:18
Speaker
But also I'm sceptical about the kind of veiled or thinly veiled or not at all veiled racism, kind of like, oh, look at what they're doing over there. And the bottom line is people who are consuming chicken aren't really looking at where it's coming from. And so saying, oh, well, it's it's fine. I eat chicken.
00:28:36
Speaker
like that our chickens are well looked after. Well, number one, no, they're not. And number two, that that your chicken has come from Saudi Arabia. So you don't know what you're talking about.
00:28:46
Speaker
Yeah. um I would imagine that the life of a factory farm chicken in one of the Gulf states is intensely hellish due to the heat alone and that factor alone is going to is going to make it worse than being on a factory farm in the uk for instance i'm being cynical here as well and i i'm assuming that the reason that the uk farmers are as concerned as they are is because this is an extra level of competition that they don't want and they're riding on the on the back of this animal welfare agenda to sort of put the but their point across.
00:29:17
Speaker
every Every piece of animal welfare for legislation that has been passed in the UK or in any other country for that matter has been viciously opposed by these same people who bang on and about having the highest welfare standards in in the world.
00:29:32
Speaker
it's it's It's no thanks to them if the UK has higher welfare standards than other countries. because they have fought tooth and nail to stop any incursion into their profits from ever being threatened but by animal welfare sort of ah thoughts or or laws or and and such.
00:29:49
Speaker
So essentially, if if you're dealing with capitalism, this is the end result. It's interesting that they're prepared to have and legislation about hygiene. about the meat hygiene, but they're not concerned about the welfare of the meat before it gets turned into meat. If if they're if they're able to to impose legislations around the hygiene, you would assume that they could do the same around welfare issues.
00:30:13
Speaker
They clearly aren' aren't interested. but When you give a bunch of meat-eating, milk-drinkers, the responsibility of coming up with legislation around animal welfare, they never do a particularly good job of it because they're not that interested in it.
00:30:26
Speaker
So this is the andra this is the end result of Keir Starmer's party. They are not pro-animal welfare. They are are a capitalist Tory-lite expression of modern-day capitalism.
00:30:39
Speaker
In order to really affect animal welfare change, we will have to tackle the root causes, which include capitalism. and hopefully that will sort of deal deal with these problems.
00:30:51
Speaker
But yeah, as long as there is cheaper meat available, then the ah the the great unwashed are going to buy that, aren't they? you know So and there's only so much legislation will do. you were talking ultimately about a change in the economic system and a change of mind and heart at the most fundamental level as well. deeper Deeper roots to this problem, isn't there? Deeper roots. But well yeah, it looks looks like that deal is going through. So um there we are. and in In a sense, it's another and the argument to give against just chemo general chicken consumption, isn't it?
00:31:23
Speaker
Because actually a lot a lot of chicken is popularized as ah is a fast food ah thingy. So you're not you're not seeing a packet that's um that says it's sauce. of of of origin or anything like that so you know who knows where it comes from um if indeed you can get to the kfc because as we reported on last week shows uh the humane league are going to be apparently blocking drive-throughs so uh try and get your armani chicken now
Shifts in Iceland's Whaling Practices
00:31:51
Speaker
carnists anyway let's give you another story from the animal reader and it is the positive sounding headline iceland will not kill whales in
00:31:59
Speaker
in 2025. That is the country, Iceland, not the supermarket. um Their main whaling company, Hvalor HF, has announced it will not hunt fin whales in 2025.
00:32:13
Speaker
Why are they doing this? Is this because they've had a change of heart? Is there a change of legislation? No, it's due to financial problems. They also didn't hunt whales in the previous year. It makes you wonder how they're staying afloat as a company. Perhaps they've a diversified into plant-based meat.
00:32:31
Speaker
Japan, who is apparently the biggest buyer of Icelandic whale meat, is paying less for the product and transport and storage costs are going up, which is making it harder for them to make a profit.
00:32:43
Speaker
Well, boo-hoo, Kate! Doesn't our heart weep for these companies that are no longer able to make a viable living from hunting these beautiful creatures. Yeah, so sad, isn't it?
00:32:54
Speaker
But actually, thank you for giving me a positive story, Anthony. So apparently, also, ah just a slight tinge on it, well, not a slight tinge, but but ja Japan is hunting themselves again. And so they don't actually need whale meat from Iceland.
00:33:14
Speaker
But there is like ah there's been like a massive change in public opinion in Iceland anyway. And there's loads of vegans in Iceland. Did you know that? don't if you've been there. you've you've You've been, haven't you?
00:33:26
Speaker
I have a couple of years ago. it was absolutely fantastic. know if there still is, but there was. And I didn't even visit it, but it was like the biggest vegan supermarket in the world, apparently.
00:33:39
Speaker
So there's some great vegan cafes and stuff. It's quite expensive, but yeah it's pretty good in Reykjavik anyway. Yeah, so 51% of Icelanders now oppose whaling and that's growing all the time.
00:33:54
Speaker
there a huge industry involved industry in tourism and whale watching, which is a far nicer thing to do. And that brings in 26 million US dollars every year into the economy, which and supports loads of jobs, you know, far more than waving at poverty.
00:34:16
Speaker
There is there is another company, or who all companies even that hunt minky whales, but and it's not clear whether they're going to be doing it, but they They hunt, the minke whales are for like local consumption and for restaurants and things.
00:34:32
Speaker
But there's been a ton of protests and restaurant boycotts and campaigns towards tourists for awareness.
00:34:43
Speaker
one There was one called Meet Us, Don't Eat Us. And which was pretty successful in reducing the demand for whale meat amongst tourists. um that it's It's pretty, pretty good. I think that, the the you know, i don't know.
00:34:59
Speaker
I did go on a ah whale watching boat trip when I was there. which was really interesting. We didn't see many whales. It's probably like the wrong time of year. But there was an amazing guide who she was so enthusiastic and um knowledgeable and and invited us all to a sort of kind of party afterwards that was like anti-whaling and stuff.
00:35:25
Speaker
Just as we were leaving, I just said, oh, that's really great. Thank you so much. It's so interesting. And And I guess you're vegan. Yeah. But of course she wasn't. So, you know, i don't know. There's still there's still there's still a way to go for Well, as we know, as we know. But yeah, thanks for all the positive news, though, Mark, on on veganism. dry So i have hope So, yeah.
00:35:51
Speaker
yeah Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. Thank you for that one, Kate. Right, we're going to take a short break. When we come back, we're going to hear about some angry vegans and some angry farmers. I'll leave you to guess who is going to be talking about which.
00:36:05
Speaker
As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show. This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our show.
Transcripts & Language Debates
00:36:25
Speaker
So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. i'm going to spell it all for you.
00:36:40
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:36:51
Speaker
And then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:36:58
Speaker
Right. Mark, are you happy to kick the ball off with your pick for the week? You are talking about some angry farmers. Is there any other type? Is there any other type? The Just Saying No Brigade.
00:37:12
Speaker
OK, so the and story that I picked out this week was... from my lovely home country of Ireland. And just let me call it. Okay, so typically, and and we've and we've been here before, and no doubt we'll be here again, but Irish farmers are backing an EU commission proposal that would ban vegetarian products using terms like burger and sausage and so on.
00:37:34
Speaker
As I say, this is a very old story, and but it's it's it's ah it's been regurgitated again by ah French and MEP. who has rekindled the argument and is drafting proposals for banning the use of of terms like vegetarian burgers, vegetarian sausages, vegan sausages, and so on.
00:37:56
Speaker
ah So my and my response to their, yet again, then dragging up this corpse of complaint. So my response to them would be if the Irish farmers are insisting that and and their their their proposed concern is that they don't want the public to be misled and end up buying a vegan sausage when they but they intended to buy a meat sausage.
00:38:17
Speaker
Now it is interesting first and foremost to to i consider that none of these complaints, either this one or any the similar ones that have come before, have ever come from consumers or from consumer-led organisations.
00:38:30
Speaker
They've always come from the animal agricultural industry, or their promoters. So they are creating, they're they are inventing a problem that doesn't really exist. If someone did once go in and instead of buying pig sausages, they ended up buying vegan sausages, it's not as if they would they they they they would repeat this mistake over and over again. If it happened once to one person, it would only happen once, you know? It really isn't a problem.
00:38:56
Speaker
So my response to them is if if they are insisting that that this take place, then I am insisting that they stop referring to themselves as a business or an industry because they are neither. They are the biggest receivers of free money, probably on the planet, outside of the fossil fuel industries.
00:39:15
Speaker
So Ireland in particular. So there is a colleague, a guy I haven't met yet, but I will meet when I go back to Ireland in August, face to face. I've emailed him a chap called James O'Donovan. He's on the board of the Irish Vegan Society.
00:39:29
Speaker
And he did an in-depth study a number of years back on how much animal agriculture costs the EU. Not how much it makes, but how much it costs. Because as I say, it is it is essentially a charity. It is not a business.
00:39:44
Speaker
So he really went into the long grass and did studies on big farms and medium-sized farms, small farms, all the different types of animal agriculture and which ones were profit-making and which ones aren't and how much subsidies ah they receive.
00:40:00
Speaker
So even even the most profitable animal exports to businesses like the dairy industry 20% in Southern Ireland, in the Republic of Ireland, of their money comes from the EU, is free money from the common agricultural policy, right?
00:40:15
Speaker
So even the most profitable businesses still receive 20% of the money from from the EU taxpayer. When it comes to and charities, i'll report and even charities, too kind to word, charity is ah is an organization that does good for people or for animals these these people only do bad for everyone so charity is the wrong word but it's the word i'll use in lieu of anything else right because if they are businesses businesses make profit these people do not make profit they do they do the opposite so when when it comes to at the most uncompetitive and unmarketable and unbusiness like businesses that exist are the sheep and the uh beef charities i was going to say industries there they're not their their charities
00:40:58
Speaker
All of the money that these people make is free money that is given to them by the EU, plus some. So everything that they, all the money that they need to and to do their business, to to do their work, all of that is is free money that is given to them from the likes of you and me, in including all the vegans in the world, all those millions and millions of vegans that are, that are that are around the EU contribute unwittingly and often unknowingly to these people's profits. All the money that the beef and dairy industry generate is money given to them for free via the common agricultural policy.
00:41:39
Speaker
It is a disgrace and it is something that they never touch on and they they have the goal to refer to themselves as a business They are not a business. And then they have the cheat to try and modify and police people's language around other products that that they don't make.
00:41:57
Speaker
As in, you can't use the term vegan sausage. and They shouldn't be able to, as I say, they shouldn't be able to to refer to themselves as businessmen or to what they do as a business because they are not businesses. They are charities.
00:42:09
Speaker
And again, there needs to be a new word invented to describe them because charities brings to mind the likes of Oxfam or the RSPCA or Christian Aid or something like this. People who generally do good out in the world and are very transparent. Perhaps parasites. They're parasites. It's type of hidden parasite-ism, I suppose.
00:42:32
Speaker
and So if you were to remove their subsidies... not even entirely, but even cut them in half, most of those businesses would go out of business. 64% of all Irish farms would not survive without subsidies.
00:42:49
Speaker
They would go out of business tomorrow. Now, the demograph of these people typically is the Jeremy Clarkson, li the libertarian right, get get get the government out of my business. i know what I'm doing. I'm in touch with nature. I know how to make money. i don't need hand...
00:43:05
Speaker
handouts or a hand up. I'm an independent businessman who who stands on my own two feet and um and I make my place in the world and governments are for weaklings and for pussies and get away from me. I know what I'm doing.
00:43:19
Speaker
These people could not survive were it not for the free money organized by governments and given to them with no questions asked. And and you you highlight the hypocrisy there, Mark. I mean, if if I can come in and and just point out the the terms that they're using, ah dear dear old, where's he gone?
00:43:38
Speaker
Dennis Drennan. I did look him up because I was just imagining someone with a giant head. It's such an Irish name, right? Dennis Drennan. Yeah, yeah. I saw it. Just getting really cross and just turning purple as he's he' venting his spleen about vegans and their words.
00:43:52
Speaker
But he's he's getting really cross about people using language to conceal things. And you just think, come on, look at all the concealment that goes on in animal ag.
00:44:04
Speaker
you like You're not honest about things. We've already covered in the show this week the the the fact that people are ah ah not going to be shouting about the fact that cows are producing twice as much milk as they were 50 years ago, that that that things are being shipped halfway across the world. like There's so much concealment.
00:44:23
Speaker
It's predicated on concealment of language and purpose and what goes on if if if everything was transparent about what went on in animal ag that the if everyone would be avoiding it. Everyone would be vegan pretty much, wouldn't they? Yeah, yeah.
00:44:39
Speaker
I would have thought so. So again, it's them sort of rehashing an old argument because they have nothing else. And if people cared to look behind the curtains, they would see this. this that oh What they're doing is so economically unviable that that they would be out of business in five minutes.
00:44:54
Speaker
the The cheek of them. i'm I'm constantly flabbergasted by the cheek of these people. Yeah, it's it's absurd. ah the the The other thing that dear Dennis seemed to be taking issue was the fact that as as vegans, as people ah consuming plant-based food, we're sort of standing on the shoulders of farmers' hard work. So, you know, people have been toiling away for many hundreds of years.
00:45:18
Speaker
And then we swan along and and sort of benefit from that because we're using their terms. the you know We've not even come up with new products. I mean, course of course, all we eat is Linda McCartney sausages, isn't it? you know We don't eat anything else.
00:45:33
Speaker
But he he doesn't seem to understand that actually that's what progress is. You see what's there already and you build upon that and you innovate on that. And I'm thinking of things like cars,
00:45:46
Speaker
And, you know, if you think of a car, for example, it's is' a car because it's a horseless carriage. And actually the concept of how a car works is very similar to a ah horse and trap. But it's it's just saying, well, let's see if we can motorize this and lose the horse.
00:46:00
Speaker
um and And so the word is is based on something that already existed, carriage.
Transparency in Animal Product Labeling
00:46:05
Speaker
And in terms of the way that it moves around and and the purpose of it, that's building on what was there before. It's an innovation.
00:46:13
Speaker
And, you know, and innovation is... so long as it's done responsibly, is is a natural and normal thing. But he seems to have this idea that no one' everyone everyone has to come up with all of their ideas from scratch.
00:46:28
Speaker
You're not allowed to use anything that anyone has done in humanity or civilization before. you you You have to come up with all of your ideas. So I wonder whether he uses a tractor or a calculator or anything, or whether he literally just has like an abacus. and just a plough and he just does it all himself he seems rarely against any kind of innovation or development poor old Dennis language evolves doesn't it ah yeah even the term meat didn't used to mean animal flesh did it it meant all food it was food you know they've appropriated words for things themselves yeah you know i mean you know
00:47:11
Speaker
ah I just it just annoys me how they like ah they they're actually insulting consumers, really, aren't they? You know, they're insulting us that, you know, that but we're all stupid and we we don't know what we're buying. you knows so it's it's mad.
00:47:29
Speaker
And I do wish that they would put exactly what was in their disgusting, meaty, dairy products, you know, exactly what's in them and just what bits of the animals and, you know, how how old the animals were when they were slaughtered and slaughtered.
00:47:47
Speaker
you know, how they were kept, you know, let's have all of that on there, please. What they were fed, you know, oh they've been fed, you know, um soyer beans from the Amazon. That's all the ingredients as well, isn't it? Let's have all of that on there, please.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think ah think if there was a little... um symbol and and a number on how how how how soon this animal that you were about to buy and eat was killed from.
00:48:13
Speaker
So most animals that are eaten on ah people's plates around um the EU certainly were babies when when they were killed. They were weeks or maybe months old.
00:48:24
Speaker
Most people aren't aware that they're actually eating animal babies. so it' So this should be said, this this chicken was killed at six weeks old and and a little and the like a lion with sort of a bit of a rainbow and and like a fraction of the rainbow being colored in and the rest is all just death and stuff.
00:48:39
Speaker
So it if if if you really want to inform consumers about what they're doing, there's lots of ways that we can do this. There will be off putting to them because they will realize the horror of what they're paying into.
00:48:50
Speaker
Well, all I can say is, isn't it a good job that the Irish Creamery Milk Supplies Association have got a nice level-headed spokesperson in Dennis Drennan? Because, you know, if the if they had one of ah the snowflake vegans out there, they'd be getting all cross at the tiniest little thing, whereas Dennis seems completely rational and sensible. And, you know, he's not overreacting at all.
00:49:12
Speaker
It's the vegans who are the overreactive snowflakes. Speaking of which, let's move on to Kate's pick of the
PETA's Strategies & Public Reactions
00:49:20
Speaker
week. where people for the ethical treatment of animals have got very, very cross.
00:49:25
Speaker
ah Apparently, the tiniest little thing and the Daily Mail have had an absolute field day, Kate. What what is all the fuss about? What what are Peter getting cross about? Ah. Yes, so the ah title is Animal Rights Fanatics Peter are branded disgusting and outlandish for hitting out at William and Kate because they allowed their dog to have puppies.
00:49:47
Speaker
um So Kensington Palace have released a birthday photo of Prince William. with ah their family dog, Orla. And she's apparently she's had four puppies.
00:50:00
Speaker
um And Peter have decided to criticise the royal couple for breeding from their dog. And Eliza Allen, I don't know if pronounced her name correctly, she's the vice president of programmes for Peter. And she has said, the Prince and Princess of Wales should know that shelters here and worldwide are overflowing with puppies desperate for a second chance of a loving home.
00:50:27
Speaker
And she told Mail Online that churning out a litter in the midst of this animal homelessness crisis is staggeringly out of touch. So, of course, um there have been people hitting back, including, as they say, politicians, royal commentators, well, as only one royal commentator, and animal welfare professionals describing Peter as, well, actually, the most of the animal welfare professionals didn't describe Peter as this, but they were described as an extremist group and
00:51:00
Speaker
animal rights terrorists, and accused the organisation of being out of touch and politically motivated. And they managed to rope in some Conservative MP called Andrew Rosindale, who's the former Shadow Minister for Animal Welfare.
00:51:18
Speaker
ah He's actually written to the Charity Commission to call for Peter's charity status to be revoked. And he said, responsible breeding, especially by... experienced families like the Middletons, aren't they? Just cute, experienced families.
00:51:35
Speaker
It's a legitimate and valuable part of caring for dogs alongside adoption. It's it's like the dance of the hyperbolics, isn't it? like Everyone's just getting so cross about everything.
00:51:46
Speaker
yeah you've had a You've had a puppy. Well, you shouldn't be a charity then.
00:51:53
Speaker
Let's all just calm down and go for a walk and come back and talk about this sense of it. Well, it is the Mail Online, isn't it? Oh, it's awful, Kate. I'm scrolling down. Sorry to interject your pick for the week here. But I'm scrolling down some of the headlines that are just popping up, like embedded within this article, like evil Nigerian scam.
00:52:14
Speaker
Rip-off holiday haven. Brits living in homeless encampment in Benidorm. It's like, oh my God, how do people consume this? It's terrible. I don't know if you've noticed, but there's an awful lot of angry people walking around the UK right now.
00:52:29
Speaker
I sat on the chain wonder train next to load of angry people the other day and it was just, oh my God. Yeah, it's just, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of angry people. I reckon that that they're in cahoots with them these mindfulness apps and things like that. I reckon like... They're actually commissioned by the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail, is their job is to make, and and GB News, their job is to make everyone cross. And then we get the mindfulness apps and the yoga retreats. They're to calm everyone down. They're all run by the same person. It's it's a perfect cycle.
00:53:01
Speaker
Oh, God. Well, yeah. Anyway, they've roped in somebody called Lady con Colin Campbell, who's a royal author. And she she she said, doctrinaire fanatics refuse to acknowledge that they do what their cause more harm than good by trying to bully people for making perfectly reasonable and acceptable choices.
00:53:22
Speaker
There's nothing wrong with perpetuating the line of a beloved pet. The British Jamaican socialite added that she had whelped several generations of beloved dogs while also say taking it generation after generation of rescue cats. Sorry, I have to laugh at this. It's just so funny.
00:53:40
Speaker
Anyway, so blah, blah, blah, blah. Kennel Club, you know, they kind of, they get stuck in there talking about, you know, informed pet ownership and going to the right breeder and all the rest of it for your... Can I ask you a question, Kate? I'd be interested to get your perspective on this. you've you've You've read through different people's responses and things like that.
00:54:05
Speaker
If you were at PETA or a similar organisation and you had the final say as to, shall we put this press release out or not, would you would you back it? Or would you say, and I think this is think this is too hyperbolic? Well, they've got in the press, haven't they?
00:54:21
Speaker
you know? That's not what he asked, Kate. Would I back it? Yeah, probably. Would you really? Yeah. So yeah, for sure. What about you, Mark? I think in terms of generating headlines and outrage and free publicity and all of that, Peter are are up there with kneecap in terms of of rattling the fucking sort of jewellery these people It's not the sort of route that I would go down. It's it's a master class in media manipulation.
00:54:54
Speaker
Whether it gets the cut through they're looking for, I'm not too sure. um They seem to operate on a perpetual ah provocation ah tone. ah It gets a bit tired. um It gets a bit superficial to me.
00:55:10
Speaker
People have come in for a lot of criticism for for this type of ah campaigning, if you if you if you want to call it that. It seems to be doing them well because they've been prominent animal rights organization with quite a bit of money behind them for as long as they've existed. So so they are doing something right.
00:55:27
Speaker
But it isn't the sort of approach i personally would take. i sort of enjoy reading about the latest Outrage in the Sun or the Daily Mail about what Peter have done.
00:55:38
Speaker
i do wonder whether it's it's convincing anyone that needs to be convinced about our message. um Yeah, that that's ah that's up for more debate. They've got a lot of members worldwide. So it's certainly convinced quite a few people.
00:55:53
Speaker
But what really kind of also drew me to this article, apart from the the kind of, you know, the wrangling and the the all all that, you know, as I noticed, Brian Monteith, have you looked up the anti-Peter campaign, Peter Watch? Have you looked them up?
00:56:10
Speaker
Yes, I have, yes. You have, yeah. So it it just seems to me that it is just this guy, Brian Monteith, who was like pro-Brexit and worked for L'Eve and all the rest of it and now lives in France. I mean, he wasn't he wasn't just pro-Brexit, he was an MEP for Brexit. Yeah, he was.
00:56:30
Speaker
But he lives in France. I mean, you know, doesn't that tell you everything as well? So, um but, you know, he's just, it sounds like he's, main goal in life is to just get rid of Peter.
00:56:44
Speaker
And he's he he commented on a... he was he was right he did a sort of campaign, or if you look on their website, he's done a campaign about, oh yeah, saving kids from Peter.
00:56:55
Speaker
You know, yeah you saw all that. You know, and and accusing them of promoting biased emotional manipulation, scientifically flawed teaching materials used in schools.
00:57:08
Speaker
I mean, you know, actually, when you look at the what they're promoting, it is complete lies and misinformation. Their whole goal is basically, yeah, to smash Peter. I wonder if, don't know if it is just him working for that well do for for it, do you think?
00:57:24
Speaker
Or there are there a few other people behind the scenes? I don't know. I mean, ah as as we've said, I mean, i mean um both both of your kind of ah observations in terms of Peter's owner at the numbers of subscribers and supporters, like I don't think they need to worry about ah about Brian and his his campaign, whether or not it's just just him or whether he's got a a band of followers.
00:57:48
Speaker
I mean, for for for what it's worth, i I don't like this kind of um approach. I i think it does kind of undermine animal rights messages that have a bit more integrity.
00:57:59
Speaker
i I get where they're coming from, but I don't think it's any different to an argument saying that they you know they've had their own biological children, but there are children who need adopting. it's its It's the same argument, really. And and of course of course, in a non-vegan world, we need to you know raise the awareness of animal rights and and and things like that but for for me i don't like the tone but um it that as you point out they're definitely uh continuing to exist as an organization well because they've got backers i just question whether that's in animals best interest but however that is just my opinion and as you know listeners we very much value your opinions too do send them in to us here is how to get in touch
00:58:42
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas what helps shape the show.
00:59:02
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Well, thank you for that last story, Kate. And now our final story is also dog-related too. Before we go into it, I'd just like to ask listeners, we've now been going nearly two years, so there are stories that we will have featured early doors or a few months ago that are continuing to develop. And this next one is one that we've reported on. we we're We're doing our best to report on developments in stories that we started off with, because very few of them, something happens and that's the end of it. They tend to have developments as the years go on.
00:59:39
Speaker
We're doing our best to do that, but with your help, we will stay on top of stories too. So if you if you see a further development in the story that we covered a year ago, do please send it in because it's really important to see how these things progress over time.
00:59:54
Speaker
This last story comes from South Korea, where you may well know the nationwide ban on the sale of dog meat for consumption came in last year, 2024.
Dog Meat Ban in South Korea & Transition Challenges
01:00:06
Speaker
It gave farmers until February, 2027 to cease their operations and sell off their remaining animals. And we've focused on different stages of the development.
01:00:16
Speaker
The BBC have put an article out in the last week who was spotted by Alex, one of our occasional guests and my partner in fact, that that gives an update on the implications of this and we're just going to touch on this briefly. We've not got time to go into all the depth that the article gives.
01:00:30
Speaker
I'd really recommend you, if you have five minutes, to follow the link in the show notes because it's a really interesting piece. In short, many people are saying that February 2027 is too soon because there's not enough time to phase out this industry which has propped up livelihoods for generations.
01:00:47
Speaker
Obviously not an animal rights perspective, that one. They're saying that authorities still haven't come up with adequate safeguards for farmers or the estimated half a million dogs that remain in captivity.
01:01:00
Speaker
And in fact, even those who support the ban, including experts and animal rights advocates, have flagged issues around the enforcement, um including the difficulty of rehoming dogs that have been saved from the kill floor,
01:01:13
Speaker
but they're basically now very likely to be facing euthanasia. We're about midway through this grace period now, so sort of about a year or so in with about a year and a half to go.
01:01:27
Speaker
Dog farmers are finding themselves with hundreds of virtually unsellable animals, farms that can't be closed and little means unsellable. of putting food on the table themselves. um One of them, Mr. Jew, I'm going to say it is, J-O-O, says, people are suffering. We're drowning in debt, can't pay off, and some can't even find new work.
01:01:48
Speaker
It's a hopeless situation. He is also president of the Korean Association of Edible Dogs, which just seems like a completely absurd proposition. But I suppose it it just shows just show speciesism, doesn't it? you know like if you're the present of you British Association of Edible Chickens president, that doesn' that doesn't seem quite as absurd, does it?
01:02:13
Speaker
um Another farmer who has been... been anonymized to protect themselves, um has got 18 months to get rid of 600 dogs. After that, they face a penalty of up to two years in prison.
01:02:26
Speaker
They say, realistically, even just on my farm, I can't process the number of dogs I have in that time. At this point, I've invested all of my assets, and yet they're not even taking the dogs.
01:02:37
Speaker
They, he is referring to, means traders and butchers. Prior to the ban, they would buy an average of half a dozen dogs per week. There's an estimated half a million dogs remaining on meat farms across the country. And as I've said earlier, people from animal rights organisations, Humane World for Animals Korea,
01:02:59
Speaker
one of these. And their campaign manager says, although the dog meat ban has passed, both the government and civic groups are still grappling with how to rescue the remaining dogs. One area that still feels lacking is the discussion around the dogs that have been left behind.
01:03:15
Speaker
Mark, did you want to come in with a response straight away? Yeah, I've done the the in calculations here. And ah with reference to the royal family from the last story about them having their corgis have litter and stuff.
01:03:28
Speaker
I was looking up how much the royal family in the UK own. And around the world, it's over 6 billion acres of land. But in the UK, they personally directly own 250,000 acres of land.
01:03:43
Speaker
So if there's 500,000 dogs over in South Korea that need rehoming, that's half an acre each if the royal family decide to adopt all those dogs because they have the space for it.
01:03:55
Speaker
and take care of all of them. They have the space and the money to do that. Will they do it? Of course not. They'd be loving it, wouldn't they? They'd be loving it, those dogs. I bet you there's a pro-dog-eating politician over in South Korea who's banging on about the threat of dogs taking over the world on unless we farm them and eat them. You know the way people say, if if we didn't eat cows and chickens, they'd take over the world.
01:04:23
Speaker
ah Little do they know that most of the world do not eat dogs and they haven't taken over the world. Cats have taken over the world. So um it it is a preposterous preposterous situation that you ah that you even have someone called, head day was it that the a Minister for Edible Dogs or something that like this? There are non-edible dogs as well.
01:04:45
Speaker
that that that that that that that wouldn't be touched or something. it's it's a It's always tickled me when the South Korean dogme trade has come to prominence in the media.
01:04:56
Speaker
It's come into prominence the here a few times over in New Zealand, and I've had a few discussions with people as they're eating ham sandwiches about how disgusted they are about the dogme trade.
01:05:08
Speaker
So the hypocrisy and the cultural immersion that is required to consume animals and to love other animals is shown in its darkest contrast when pig eaters complain about dog eaters over there.
01:05:24
Speaker
When pig eaters here complain about dog eaters over there, you had know there's something wrong. Yeah, very true. I mean, Kate, it it it put me in mind of actually for a vegan world to happen, there's going to be lots of instances like this, aren't they there? There'll come a point where legislation says this isn't allowed.
01:05:41
Speaker
And people will get understandably very upset. I mean, I don't want to diminish the the impact for these half a million dogs. Let's let's say they're all euthanized. That's terrible.
01:05:52
Speaker
That is terrible. But surely the point is they're not having offspring. that that that They are the last half a million dogs that are killed to beat needlessly to be eaten. Whereas in in animal ag, let's say that was pigs.
01:06:08
Speaker
The last half a million pigs that would just be killed without being eaten. Tragic. But actually, there's 11 million pigs killed annually in the UK alone to be eaten. So that's still a relatively good thing. But it's it's it's still awful.
01:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, it is still awful. Yeah, I guess this, yeah, we need to learn from this, don't we? in that actually it's really important to have like plans in place for transition, you know, and support for workers. I mean, they obviously their concerns are real. We have to, you know, that they they but is their business.
01:06:49
Speaker
I find it so interesting, the comments of that chap. who who was witnessing his dogs being rescued, the the guy who luckily had quite a few his dogs rescued, and how how he was so moved with the levels of compassion and empathy shown by the ah rescuers.
01:07:11
Speaker
and how it kind of it changed the way he thought about his animals mean i i mean for up for us i guess who are used to having companion dogs around us i don't know if you've got a companion dog at mark but but you know we there's expressions there's that you know they they're so expressive they' but their faces and their eyes and their tails and you know and um And watching the film footage of the rescuers going in and and collecting the dogs out of the cages and taking them away and the dogs wagging. They're all so friendly, despite having had a really, really shitty life so far. you know Farmers here, they're the same about their cows and their pigs. They're just machines.
01:07:58
Speaker
they're just machines aren't they? They're just machines to to a lot of farmers here. But yeah, I guess we we have to learn from from the mistakes here that we need to put in um transition plans for the workers, rescue strategies for the animals.
01:08:15
Speaker
And it needs, you know, proper support from from from the government. so I do agree with you. And I think that is the pragmatic response.
01:08:28
Speaker
But just to be kind of a bit more cold and, don't know, philosophical almost, the fact that there's 500,000 dogs who are probably going to be euthanised because most of them aren't going to be rehomed realistically.
01:08:43
Speaker
That's not the fault of the people who've campaigned for this ban to come in place. That is the fault of the people who started breeding them and started this trade. So, so yeah you know, it's it's wrong to say the vegans, animal rights activists or whatever...
01:09:00
Speaker
This blood is on your hands. No, it's not. They were going to be killed anyway. And so would their children. And so would their children. And so would their children. Like the fact that there's half a million dogs lying around dead, that's because of this trade that you've you've put in place.
01:09:16
Speaker
And in terms of the farmers that are struggling to find new work and are are in debt, of course, practically, you know, we we want to try and help people out and give people fresh starts and what have you.
01:09:27
Speaker
But at the same time, the fact that you're in that position is because of what you were doing before, you know, because you ah that was your living, that was your industry. And we can try and have compassion for that. But again, that's that's not because of the animal rights activists or the government that said, no, this isn't allowed anymore.
01:09:48
Speaker
It's because you chose to do that in the first place or your ancestors did. You know, of course, many people end up in this position and it's arguably not their fault because it's been a generations old thing. But it's but we we need to be careful not to say that it is the fault of the people who've brought about the ban.
01:10:05
Speaker
That's that's just not the case. Yeah. In my opinion. In my opinion. Yeah. Right. Time's getting on. We need to move on and bring the show to a close. There's a little thing that we'd like to ask for your help with first, however.
01:10:19
Speaker
If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too. We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
01:10:45
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help. going to jump in ahead of your bit, Kate, here and say that I found something out as well last week that if you leave a comment on an episode in Spotify, that helps us show up on the algorithm too. So if you're listening and you think, well, I've already shared the show to loads of people.
01:11:09
Speaker
I've already left a review. You can also leave a comment after each episode too. And that will help our visibility too, if you've got the time, but don't worry if you haven't. Okay, brilliant. and I just want to quickly say cat meat is still available in South Korea. There we are.
01:11:24
Speaker
oh god there's the next campaign then there's the next campaign all the south korean farmers listening to this podcast are now going to think oh we don't have to shut up shut up after all don't know get the cages back Oh, well, pigs. I'll be having pigs instead, won't they? like Oh, God. Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
01:11:45
Speaker
Thank you, everyone, for listening. The next Enough of the Falafel is coming out on Thursday, the 3rd of July, and that's a Vegan Talk um episode with Anthony, Paul and Dominic.
01:12:00
Speaker
Who are your favourite vegan artists is what they're going to be talking about. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you to Anthony and Kate for your contributions.
01:12:12
Speaker
Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Mark and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:12:24
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:12:39
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:13:05
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
01:13:26
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
01:13:41
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.