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191- Does the dairy industry trigger families who have lost children?
88 Plays15 days ago
This week a VIVA! advert highlighting practices in the dairy industry was banned on the grounds that it could be triggering for families who have lost their children...which raises the question as to whether the dairy industry itself should be banned for similar reasons! In this week's episode, Mark, Kate & Ant discuss this and another ten or so stories from the vegan & animal rights space from the last fortnight.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.conservation.org/press-releases/2025/06/06/new-amazon-protected-area-safeguards-iconic-species-and-indigenous-stewardship-in-peru
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bbc-viewers-brand-countryfile-disgusting-35512798
https://www.pcrm.org/news/news-releases/landmark-shift-nih-announces-no-more-exclusive-funding-animal-experiments
https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/vegan-charity-sees-insensitive-cinema-ad-banned-after-25-complaints.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo8yFT53kpk&t=22s
https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/25295684.glasgow-hydro-announces-food-will-plant-based/?ref=rss
https://www.earth.com/news/processed-meat-can-cause-health-issues-even-in-tiny-amounts/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/07/07/activists-block-veal-slaughterhouses-over-vandrie-group-calf-cruelty/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/14/labour-not-implemented-animal-welfare-pledges-say-campaigners
https://www.vegansociety.com/news/news/missed-opportunity-nhs-10-year-plan
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/cultured-meat-delicious-alternative-or-frankenstein-food/j7civ5efc
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1354748415621317/
https://www.thenational.scot/news/25302440.sspca-reduce-small-wildlife-rescues-due-compliance-issue/
https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/food/switzerland-food-animals-labeled/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Mark, Kate & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan Week Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everybody, if you are looking for the latest vegan and animal rights news, you are in the right place. I'm Anthony and joining me for this episode are Kate and Mark.
Addressing Vegan Stereotypes
00:00:11
Speaker
But that is enough of the falafel, let's get on with Vegan Week.
00:00:16
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Protein! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick them.
00:00:43
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be all right. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:59
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hi, listeners. This is Mark. Welcome to the show and thank you for being here. Hi, everyone. It's Kate here. This is our weekly
Protecting Peru's Medioputamayo Algodón
00:01:10
Speaker
news show. But actually, we've got a real treat for you because we've got two weeks of vegan news and animal rights news. But that's enough of the flower fall.
00:01:19
Speaker
Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:24
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
00:01:38
Speaker
Well, for our first story this week, we're going to probably the part of the world that is the most far away from all of us combined. We've got Mark recording in Oceania, me and Kate recording in the UK. So we're bringing you a story from Peru in South America.
00:01:54
Speaker
And this is the news that the newly designated Medioputamayo Algodón protected area is now going to safeguard quote iconic species and indigenous stewardship, ah namely 283,000 hectares of Amazon rainforest home to jaguars, giant river otters, harpy eagles, and more than 1,800 documented species.
Controversy over Anti-Dairy Ad
00:02:22
Speaker
documented species This has been a collaboration between lots of different organisations. If you know anything about the geography of Peru, a big, big chunk of it is either uninhabitable or is certainly not habited by humans in the sort of urban metropolis way that many of us are used to. But a lot of the a lot of these areas, therefore, are a bit of a wild west in terms of how they're governed and and how the resources are used.
00:02:54
Speaker
There's things like a illegal gold mining, all sorts of depletion of the natural stuff going on. So many commentators are saying that this protection of this area, which is is basically trying to protect the wildlife, but also the rights of 16 indigenous communities who've also received formal legal recognition as part of this and trying to protect their way of life it's interesting this one mark from a from a vegan point of view because this is whilst on the face of it it looks like really good news it's not necessarily saying all animals are protected because for example it's protecting these indigenous people's rights to go fishing for example but but what's what's your take on this you've you've had a look at this one haven't you Yeah, I've looked ah i've looked at this. So it's it's an area about twice the size of London, which is quite big. But when you're talking about the Amazon, I'm not sure what a sort of percentage that is and how much of it is left. Because I remember when I was growing up, the sort of
00:03:57
Speaker
they did did the sort of fact that was doing the school runs was that the amazon has been cut down at the rate of a football field size per minute or something and that was back in
BBC Countryfile and Factory Farming
00:04:08
Speaker
the 80s so how much of us left i don't know yeah so it's it's a it's a strange setup obviously it isn't it isn't um non-human animal centered there is only 5 000 people living in this area that that is twice the size of london and i i did i did wonder why but then i looked Further on down the article, and it talks about jaguars and giant river otters and harpy eagles. And I thought that's probably something to do with the low human population in the area.
00:04:35
Speaker
No, it's great. Look, ah I think people like Jeff Bezos and ah those sort of people should be... taxed to the nth degree and the money used to buy places like this and keep it protected and keep them as sort of almost walled off zones free from from capitalist and interference.
00:04:52
Speaker
It's a step the right direction now to say it isn't entirely non-animal human focused but it's better than the possible alternative like like mcdonald's got into it yeah it's it's interesting you mentioned jeff bezos because
Billie Eilish's Vegan Concert Policy
00:05:04
Speaker
uh one of the contributors to this is uh the bezos earth fund right so in a weird sort of way uh so some of his money does seem to be going to it but um Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. And like like we say, it's not necessarily the most animal rightsy thing, but probably probably better that this is happening than it is not.
00:05:27
Speaker
Let's move on to our second story of the week. And this has been widely reported across places like GB News and lots of places that like The Sensationalist. We're taking the pick, if you follow the link in the show notes, from the civilsociety.co.uk website.
00:05:42
Speaker
dot code dot u k who dedicate themselves to reporting on news from the charity sector. And this is because Bristol-based vegan charity, Viva, who you might have heard of, we've featured them quite a bit on the show before, they have had an advert banned This week, it's an anti-dairy advert. ah There is a link in the show notes for it.
00:06:05
Speaker
The Advertising Standards Authority received 25 complaints. So not thousands, but certainly not one or two either. They ruled that the content was insensitive
NIH Shifts Away from Animal Testing
00:06:18
Speaker
and likely to cause distress. Now, I do suggest you follow the link in the show notes and have a look at the ad so you can see what all the fuss is.
00:06:27
Speaker
is about. But basically, you've got a mum putting her baby to bed um in a cot, I seem to remember. And then when she turns the light off, you can see a silhouette right next to the cot. And she's quite shocked. She turns the light back on.
00:06:40
Speaker
And it's some sort of hideous bogeyman figure who's basically saying, you can't have your baby because we're taking them away because we want your milk.
00:06:52
Speaker
So the parallels between the the situation and the dairy industry are reasonably obvious there for those of us who are educated on what happens in animal agriculture. There is then a little section kind of showing actually what does happen to cows in in the dairy industry.
00:07:09
Speaker
Kate, it's an interesting one, things like this, because in a sense, it being banned means it doesn't get showed. But then the fact that it's got banned and gets into the news means that it gets loads of coverage. And I'm pretty sure that Viva have said before that their ads have got more coverage when they've been banned than when they've not been banned. So I wonder whether they were trying to get this one banned. What what do you think?
00:07:33
Speaker
Gosh, it's
Health Risks of Processed Foods
00:07:34
Speaker
quite interesting, this story. So It was um never going to be shown to under 15 year olds. It got 15 certificate.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I think the Cinema Advertising Authority gave it a 15 and above certificate. And it was being shown, it has been shown alongside horror movies, right?
00:07:55
Speaker
So people don't tend to go and watch horror movies if they're like quite shockable, don't think, do you? But the message itself is it hits home because and what what is more precious than your child and your It's kind of getting across the message that animals, particularly mother cows, feel exactly the same way.
00:08:17
Speaker
So, you know, it's trying to make people empathise. And I think it does a pretty good job. And obviously it's done far too good a job because they had a whole 25 complaints out of...
00:08:30
Speaker
like size 3.5 million views, apparently. And that was apparent that's what they've said, you know the number of people who were but watching the films. so And initially, the Advertising Standards Authority didn't ban it, right?
00:08:45
Speaker
It was only after they got these complaints. One of which was from the ah Dairy Council of Northern Ireland. Right.
00:08:56
Speaker
But that was thinking. Even before I saw that, I thought, well, 25 complaints is not that much. That's surely just a group of dairy farmers. Apparently, it doesn't matter how many complaints they get.
00:09:07
Speaker
like It could be one complaint or it could be thousands. You know, if they think there's something he's
Protests Against Veal Slaughterhouses
00:09:13
Speaker
looking into, they will look into it. But yeah, 25. And I think it probably was mostly dairy farmers because actually, i mean, they're making out that, yeah, okay, that it's a sensitive issue if you've lost a child or, um you know, you're having problems becoming a parent and all the sensitivities around that.
00:09:34
Speaker
But actually, when you look at what the dairy the Dairy Council are saying, I mean, they're trying to say that it's exploiting grieving human parents, to make a point.
00:09:45
Speaker
Ulster Farmers Union Deputy President John McLennan said this advert from Viva was being shown across cinemas in Northern Ireland and prompted numerous to claim complaints to us from our members.
00:10:00
Speaker
The advert's message was not only misleading and inaccurate, but also harmful to the dairy sector we represent. Northern Ireland farmers work to the highest animal welfare standards and they care.
00:10:12
Speaker
The care they have for their livestock is second to none. It was extremely distressing for our members to witness this advert. They worried excessively about the false narrative it was portraying to members of the public and how it would be interpreted Therefore, we are pleased that the ASA has acted decisively, recognising the validity of the complaints.
00:10:33
Speaker
The high welfare standards consistently achieved by dairy farmers, along with the care they show, ensures every calf born on a Northern Ireland dairy farm is highly valued and reared accordingly.
00:10:47
Speaker
blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. So they don't actually deny that they separate mothers and calves then? No, they haven't denied it, but apparently they care for every single one, you know, yeah as it's separated.
00:11:02
Speaker
I don't know. It's just, I just thought, oh my God, that's where it's come from, isn't it? And actually all of that quote, if you just swapped the phrase dairy industry and
Criticism of UK Animal Welfare Policies
00:11:12
Speaker
dairy farmers with slave owners and put it back 200 years, basically they're saying, no, we're really offended by this. We're really worried about this. This is going to damage our industry.
00:11:21
Speaker
Like it's that it's the least, like listeners, do do follow the link and watch it. It's the least scary. And, ah you know, I'm not a parent who's lost a child. So I can't speak to that.
00:11:32
Speaker
But really, it no one who's lost a child has lost a child to a man turning up and snatching it from a crib, have they? like it's It's not the same thing at all. i I think it's really disingenuous to say that, oh, this like has anyone actually complained saying we lost a child and and that triggered us? I think it's a nonsense. It's disingenuous.
00:11:55
Speaker
i I don't know. no Nobody has said that, but I think they've said it would possibly, you know, upset people like that.
Advice on Wildlife Rescue in Scotland
00:12:03
Speaker
But mean, Juliette Galatale kind of makes the point that, of course, it's, she says it's nothing but censorship.
00:12:09
Speaker
And it's entirely based on a subjective opinion, because apparently, it went to a jury who then made that decision. So after initially saying it was okay, and that And adverts from the meat and dairy industry continue to you know come onto our screens portraying idyllic farms that bear no resemblance to reality whatsoever. so And like you say, there was loads of coverage there.
00:12:36
Speaker
GB News, all the rest. Hopefully, yeah, like you say, loads more people will go and look at it. so And hopefully the same people that managed to convince that panel that this advert should be banned because of the links to people who have lost children. Maybe that will be the grounds for the whole dairy industry to be banned because it could be upsetting to people who've lost children.
00:13:00
Speaker
That's kind of an own goal really,
Swiss Legislation on Animal Product Transparency
00:13:02
Speaker
isn't it? In a way. What, you mean a reminder of that thing that you do all the time could upset some people? oh yeah, yeah, good one. Anyway, whilst we're on the subject of people in the UK getting rather cross about things, our next story is about BBC viewers getting very upset. They're branding the programme Countryfile disgusting and cruel after the programme shone a light on a family engaging in, quote, battery farming for cows.
00:13:32
Speaker
What does this mean then? Well, the episode in question took a look back at past segments, including some from 2021, where it revisited some farmers in County Down who have adopted a zero grazing system.
00:13:49
Speaker
for their dairy farm. The method involves keeping cows indoors most of the year to maximise milk production and cost effectiveness. A stark contrast, says the Mirror, who are reporting on this, to traditional farming methods often showcased on the programme.
00:14:05
Speaker
So I think what they're implying there is that, oh no, normally cows are out grazing the fields all the time, but Countryfile showed this...
00:14:15
Speaker
This one farm, the one farm in the world where this happens, because of course it doesn't happen anywhere else. But there have been lots of people who have been upset about this. It's one of those stories where there's basically the story is lots of people been getting cross on social media.
00:14:31
Speaker
But here are some of the comments nonetheless. It's bad enough having battery hens, but keeping those poor cows inside for the majority of the year is downright abuse. Kind of the implication there is that it's not abuse for the chickens. I'm not sure.
00:14:45
Speaker
Another viewer said, absolutely disgusting. How cruel. Why is Countryfowl promoting factory farming? And a third commented, looks really sad. A bit like keeping cats indoors that never see the light of day.
00:14:59
Speaker
Mark, I'm going to assume that most of these people commenting are not vegan. Are we then to take this as a positive story that people are seeing this and being cross?
00:15:10
Speaker
Or is it just that they're they're getting the wrong end of the stick and thinking like, oh, this is appalling. This one farm that does this must be closed, whereas actually... it's happening all over the place. what What's your take on it? Yeah, so my initial take was the people that were making those complaints probably aren't vegan or even vegetarian, in which case they haven't got a leg to stand on and they really need to shut up because what they're complaining about it is exactly what they do to ah to other species.
00:15:35
Speaker
Second point is that is is there something in the air in the north of Ireland that is making me all the Northern Irish farmers act like psychotic loyalist terrorists or something, ah ah kidnapping and and holding cows hostage and stuff. It says somewhere in the article there's a quote from one of the couple who were involved in this cow factory farming because that's what it is.
00:15:55
Speaker
And they describe their, got to call up a call. And they describe what the conditions they've put the cows into as being like, they have fresh beds, comfortable mattresses. They have food on tap.
00:16:05
Speaker
They have scratches and foot baths, claimed Richard, one of the owners of the farm, likening it to a five-star resort for cows. So I was thinking, is is there any any other similar hotel for humans around the planet but where you're forced into it into a dark room, locked inside? if you have kids, they're taken away from you. If you have male kids, they are shot.
00:16:27
Speaker
And then a farmer comes in and only rips you by shoving his hand up as far as his armpit through your ass. Now, I wonder, is there any hotel around the world that is similar to that? And what's the reviews we'll be getting on TripAdvisor?
00:16:39
Speaker
It is the most outrageous thing to say. i mean, describing a factory farm being like a ah cow resort. It's like some sort of parody from South Park or something. But these guys are saying same with a straight face, I've never watched Countryfile for reasons like that because they have wankers like that on and all the time.
00:16:57
Speaker
and It is bizarre that they sort of see nothing wrong with it. Again, is there something in the air with the BBC where they didn't think that Bob Villan at Glastonbury wasn't going to come out with something like he was going to, have you know, they they they do not have their ear to the ground.
00:17:12
Speaker
They cannot read the room, the poor old BBC. So it's just one more in in an ongoing series of travesties for them to think that people would enjoy seeing factory farm cows as part of their ah Sunday night entertainment on TV and think there's nothing wrong with it.
00:17:25
Speaker
in an age where factory farming has been sort of condemned as hellish really by like even by people who financially support these systems so it is bizarre but that's the bbc yeah i mean personally i'm glad that it went out you know the the more people realize this this goes on i think a lot of people consuming these products just live in this narrative where oh no that's in the past or you know that happens in belarus and chad it doesn't happen in in in our country goodness no I think as own goals go, was quite pleased to see it, to be honest.
00:17:59
Speaker
Let's move away from the Gammons getting cross about things, whether they should or shouldn't be, and move on to something more positive. This one comes to us from the Glasgow Times, who are announcing that the Hydro, which is a concert venue, performance venue, they're announcing that all food will be plant-based. Now, that is a slightly misleading headline because you when you read down into the piece itself it is for some shows that everything is going to be plant-based so for example Billie Eilish's gigs at the Clydesdale Arena this has now happened in the past from from from when the article was written
00:18:40
Speaker
ah everything was going to be plant-based for that. They've said they're going green for Billy. They've they've come up with fun titled options on the menu um using the the singer's backlog of songs to inspire the names of things. I won't go into them but if you're a Billy Eilish fan you might be interested to see what the menu items were called. The article doesn't actually mention any other events where everything's going to be plant-based. So for the the headline says, everything's going to be plant-based.
00:19:10
Speaker
Then they say, oh, well, for some of the huge shows, it's going to be plant-based. And then you scroll down, you realise it's just the two Billie Eilish gigs. But Kate, nonetheless, that's going to make a massive impact. I mean, we're talking of tens of thousands of people there.
00:19:25
Speaker
Big act, big deal. It's made the headlines and no animals are directly being... abused or having their lives ended to to feed people at this show. that We want to see more of that, don't we?
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, we do. As an old crone,
00:19:44
Speaker
I have heard of some of Billie Eilish's songs and I really like them. ah She's she's a a young woman, I believe ah believe she's about 24, and she's a ah ah really great positive vegan advocate.
00:19:58
Speaker
um I mean, the Daily Mail had something to say, of course. Exclusive Billie Eilish enforces a completely vegan food policy at her London concerts with woke decision leaving attendees less than impressed.
00:20:14
Speaker
After discussing the sort eye rolling all the vegan options, they actually did a really positive account of of the the but London concerts that she did and the vegan food and and her ethics.
00:20:28
Speaker
So this is part of a world tour that she's on. And everywhere she's going, she's asking that there are plant-based options.
00:20:39
Speaker
And I believe there are like 100,000 people that saw her in London ah alone. So, you know, it's quite ah massive. It's going to have big impact on a lot of our special...
00:20:51
Speaker
especially, I guess, younger people. ah They're working, she and other artists are working with an organisation called Reverb. Their aim is to like reduce the climate footprints of various acts, music acts, insisting on plant-based options, eliminating single-use plastic,
00:21:11
Speaker
and sourcing local sustainable food. And wherever ah Billy goes, they have a climate action village, including Glasgow, and, you know, where they have like showcasing sort of local environmental groups.
00:21:25
Speaker
And they're trying to get people to ah make pledges by putting, you know, post-it notes up, vowing to go like vegan for a month. And hopefully, you know, sort of thing and doing it with a big group of people that's going to encourage them to perhaps stick with it or kind of start their journey anyway, hopefully to a more vegan lifestyle.
00:21:48
Speaker
So anyway, i sing I think she's pretty great. you know she was Apparently she always gives a kind of a kind of talk about veganism or or shout, I don't know, at the beginning of each concert. I think she's great because she's giving young people like hope that there's something they can do about the climate emergency, something within their own power that you can do as an individual.
00:22:13
Speaker
just refusing to partake in the destructive industry that is the meat and dairy industry, something they can do for themselves, for the animals, for the planet. So I think she's very empowering and I think she's great. And what a nonsense headline from the Daily Mail saying, oh, it's woke or it's been enforced. Well, if you don't like it, don't go.
00:22:38
Speaker
You know, if if you don't like her and what she stands for, don't go to a concert then. You know, it's... It's not is is not like the kind of dilemma that some people will have. They're kind of like, oh, Michael Jackson seems like a problematic character, but I really like his music. It's it's not like that. Like if if if you if you don't like plant based food, but you like Billie Eilish's music, take your own chorizo stuffed in your pocket. If you're if you're that desperate, I i don't understand.
00:23:05
Speaker
They're just after a headline, aren't they? but yeah she doesn't She doesn't dangle small children by their ankles outside of a window on ah on about 20 floors up or anything, does she? Not yet.
00:23:17
Speaker
story each time yeah ah oh 125 million followers on insta yes yeah boof glad to have her on the team until she does something silly and then we'll then we'll disown her no no it's fine it's not going to happen let's stay positive let's move on to our next story which comes to us from the physicians committee for responsible medicine again you might have heard of those guys but before and they report in a landmark shift that NIH, that is the National Institute of Health in the USA, they have announced no more exclusive funding for animal experiments. Now, bear with this story because there's some sort of double negatives and and and things like that. So we'll do our best to navigate it together.
00:24:05
Speaker
So they have announced that they will no longer seek research proposals exclusively for projects involving animals. Now, let's quickly fact check Kate and Mark.
00:24:18
Speaker
I take that to mean that they're now opening up the possibility for taking research proposals that involve humans. They're not, they are no longer saying, no, it has to have animals only. Is that your take on that?
00:24:32
Speaker
ah Yes, it is. And all um all medicine is is ultimately tested on humans before it goes to hospital use. at ah At the very end, the last animal to be tested with any medicine is always a human. You do these trials where you can go and you can get paid a couple of grand to be a ber guinea pig, essentially.
00:24:51
Speaker
for any drug. So and but my my interpretation, yes, is is that you no longer have to test a drug on animals in order for it to be approved by the state.
00:25:03
Speaker
It it can be arrived at through computer modelling, and then ultimately human testing prior to human uses generally, which is great news. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:13
Speaker
And indeed, the previously the n NIH explicitly encouraged researchers to design projects involving animals. Obviously, there's been people campaigning against that. Thankfully, people have been campaigning against that, including the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. And now we have had this announcement in the last week or so. They also announced an initiative in April, which was prioritising human-based research technologies and that they shared at a workshop on reducing animal testing
00:25:49
Speaker
co-hosted by the US Food and Drug Administration. There's more details that we can get go into and obviously listeners you can follow the link in the show notes but Mark this seems like a huge turning of the tide you know quite quite the U-turn really and and in a positive direction.
00:26:07
Speaker
Yeah, it seems to reflect a growing trend of transitioning away from animal use and research toward computer modelling and ultimately human experiments. So in in New Zealand, the National Anti-Vivisection Society has rebranded and renamed itself and the Beyond Animal Research Group, so BAR, B-A-R.
00:26:29
Speaker
And their new approach is rather than organise protests and demonstrations against the the vivisection industry, they're trying to work with that industry to help it transition away from, bit like working with animal farmers, helping them to transition away from what they're doing to where you would rather them to be. I think the the the leader of Bar here was approached by some of the some of the some of the corporations involved in animal experimentations who wanted to work with her to transition away from what they were doing. Whether that's true or not, I'm not entirely sure, but that that's that's the sort of word on on thegravine so this move over in the
00:27:15
Speaker
space for non-animal research initiatives to be approved. Whereas up till now, as the report says, it's been illegal to have anything on the market that hasn't been tested on animals, which really stunted the debate and any progress when when you when you had the weight of the state and this legislature against what you were doing. it wasn't just a moral objection it was ah the sort of the the weight of the law now was was a sort of against you that's changing i always felt that an issue like animal experimentation for medicines was going to be one of the harder nuts to crack it's hard enough to convince people to stop eating a product that's giving them cancer right how easy is it going to be to ah convince someone to ah not invest in something that that might then prevent that cancer from growing right So ah this transitioning away and bringing the industry with you is appalling to some people, i know that, but I think it's probably a step in the right direction.
00:28:10
Speaker
It's probably more progress than tackling the industry head on. And what's interesting as well, but not well to me anyway, is when they give their reasons, for this. They do mention this being a more humane and ethical move, but actually the first two reasons they give are that this this will be faster and it will lower the drug development costs.
00:28:32
Speaker
So it's kind of money and speed are a big, big part of this. And it's it's kind of like the bolt on at the end of kind of like, and I suppose it's more ethical too. It's nice for animals. Yeah. Which is the same thing we've said before about folk who are initially going plant-based for their health.
00:28:50
Speaker
In a sense, that then makes it easier for you to acknowledge the horrors that you have been causing animals in the past because you're not doing it anymore. So then you can face up and you can go, yeah, actually, I suppose it is better for animals if I don't eat them.
00:29:05
Speaker
But to do that whilst you're currently still eating them is really difficult. so Yeah, it's a problem. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we will take that. That is great news. You mentioned, Mark, getting people to stop eating things that are killing them.
00:29:18
Speaker
Well, earth.com have reported on a study led by the University of Washington in the USA, where they are saying that processed meat can cause health issues even in tiny amounts.
00:29:33
Speaker
This is obviously a human-centric, headline because from an animal's point of view, of course, tiny amounts of meat cause health issues. It results in an animal dying, but they're talking about human health as well.
00:29:44
Speaker
Here are some headlines for you. Eating just one hot dog a day. Oh, really? Must we? Increased type 2 diabetes risk by 11%, also raised the risk of colorectal cancer by 7%.
00:29:58
Speaker
A daily 12-ounce soda raised type 2 diabetes risk by 8% and ischemic and i shimi I've probably said that wrong. Heart disease by 2%. Barely worth mentioning that last bit there. So there are other findings too.
00:30:13
Speaker
But Kate, it seems like we shouldn't be touching these foods with a barge pole, which I think we knew anyway. But great that they've put this together. And and this is an analysis of over 60 previous studies. So it's really taking in a lot of data. And even though we probably knew this already, we like to see it.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yes, we do. yeah we've we've known for a long time, well, a fair amount of time about processed meat and they're talking about sugary drinks as well. And foods containing trans fatty acids, which include meat and dairy, but also processed foods.
00:30:53
Speaker
yes. So ah one doctor, Dr. Farui, is quoted as saying, there is no such thing as a safe amount of processed meat consumption. And I think, no shit.
00:31:06
Speaker
You know, absolutely. They say there are study limitations, that it does not prove direct cause. and effect but that's very hard to show ah do believe they have actually observed under a microscope you know changes to cells in you know bowel cells you know pre-cancerous cells forming well and um' i'm sure as well like arteries and things like that like within half an hour of you eating like bacon or a hot dog like your arteries literally narrow
00:31:40
Speaker
Yes, they do. And stiffen up. Yeah, they've got all those studies, haven't they? Yeah, so if that's not cause and effect, i don't know what it I know. Yeah, exactly. so But the the thing that I really take issue with, that that there's a quote from Cunili, I can't pronounce his name.
00:31:59
Speaker
It says, though reducing these foods is strongly advisable, Moderation is key. you know And it suggests that cutting back on such items ah makes sense.
00:32:11
Speaker
But you have to maintain balanced diet. This makes me so cross. you know One ah person's idea of a ah balanced ah diet is is one thing and somebody else is completely different. You know, it's like moderation.
00:32:26
Speaker
there Nobody can agree what a moderate amount is. it's not It's not a real thing. And I just, I think it immediately dilutes the message. it That includes reducing sugary drinks, processed meats, hydrogenated fats, even as trans fats are now less common. The goal shouldn't be perfection, but rather healthy and sensible dietary pattern that allows room for enjoyment. Enjoyment.
00:32:53
Speaker
A final reminder, my general advice, don't panic. He said, food is not just a source of nutrients. It plays a central role in culture, pleasure, family life and social connection.
00:33:05
Speaker
Reducing it solely to a list of health risks misses the bigger picture. you know pleasure of colorectal cancer. I just just love that pleasure. I know, exactly. I'm just going to crawl away into a corner and gnaw on a carrot right now because I have no pleasure in my life from eating my healthy vegan food.
00:33:26
Speaker
Thanks very much. I just, you know, give people the message, tell them there is no safe amount and then let them decide.
00:33:36
Speaker
Don't say, oh, moderation, you know, it's fine. Enjoy your life, you know, get a little bit of bowel cancer. you know just don't know sorry just get a little bit of get a little bit of cancer don't panic quote from the people's doctor dr kundle from reading thank you just die die a little bit you'll be fine do you think they're a medical doctor do you think they're like actually a doctor of like pokemon studies or something like that i have no idea does make me wonder if they've got links to industry somewhere You know, I had a look, I couldn't find anything. But honestly, you know. Doctor of beef.
00:34:17
Speaker
And I think it's it's it's it's a doctors, like ah most of the people, are are afraid to say anything that's too contentious publicly. our remember sort of back in the day when smoking tobacco was was was it becoming more and more of an issue, and they were bringing in the secondhand smoking ban, and there was...
00:34:34
Speaker
There was a few doctors and a few politicians in the UK and Ireland, I remember saying that the we shouldn't be telling the poor what to do. And if they want to smoke and drink, then it's their lives. And it's it's one of their few pleasures in life, smoking, playing playing the lottery.
00:34:49
Speaker
ah you know yeah It was a real patronising sort of and stupid thing to say, but they were just swimming with the tide and they don't want to stick their neck too much above the parapet and say, yes, it's bad for you and you shouldn't be doing it.
00:35:01
Speaker
you know it's it's it's the science is clear so i i think it's just sort of lack of cojones on the part of the doctors you know yeah indeed indeed right we are going to take a quick break and then we're going hear kate and mark's pick for the week we are hearing about the government getting angry at some vegans for doing something and then some vegans are going to get cross at the government for not doing anything As well as producing these audio-based shows, our podcast hosts at Zencaster also provide the written transcript for each show.
00:35:39
Speaker
This is AI generated, so it might not always be 100% correct, but nonetheless we hope that this will increase the accessibility of our shows. So to access any of these written transcripts, head over to zencaster.com forward slash vegan week. i'm going to spell it all for you.
00:36:06
Speaker
then a forward slash, and then the word vegan, V-E-G-A-N, then a hyphen, and then week. Zencaster.com forward slash vegan hyphen week.
00:36:17
Speaker
and then each transcript is embedded with any of the shows that you click on.
00:36:25
Speaker
Okay, let's start with your pick for the week, Kate. We have got news of around 100 animal rights activists from five different European countries blockading six slaughterhouses.
00:36:38
Speaker
Goodness me, what an absolutely incredible action. There's some slightly worrying news about the the fate of some of the activists, but really impressive sounding action. Can you tell us a bit more? Yeah, so this is from theanimalreader.com, but it has had coverage and various other places across Europe.
00:36:57
Speaker
So, it's activists from the group 269 Liberation Animal. They blocked six veal slaughterhouses belonging to the Vandree group.
00:37:11
Speaker
So they entered sites during the night in order to put a halt to the operations and decided protests the treatment of young calves by this company, and they are the lut world's largest field producer. So some of the the protesters actually got in, and then there were some protesters who were chaining themselves on the outside.
00:37:37
Speaker
of the the slaughterhouses and that it's sort of coming from investigations by three groups eyes on animals ethical farming ireland and l two one four and they seen that the calves arrive at the slaughterhouses scared weak exhausted and dehydrated from Ireland. They're looking at the Southern Ireland that is looking at car and carbs from there in particular.
00:38:08
Speaker
Although, 15,000 carbs, I believe, from Southern Ireland every year. Although they actually process, which is a hideous word, 1.5 million carbs each
00:38:23
Speaker
air lee The activists, there is a cross-Europe campaign, and they have come from Spain, Italy, Germany, France and Switzerland to work together. i think about 27 of the Italian activists, as far as I know, have been arrested and haven't been released. And I can't find out anything about what's happened to them, whether they're still in custody or not.
00:38:48
Speaker
I think they're quite worried about them because some of them had been beaten up, apparently. quite i'm I'm in awe of these people, really, their bravery. I'm guessing that, Mark, you might have some thoughts about this, being as it's particularly Ireland. The action group itself, so 269 Liberation Animal, um they got their name from a previous action where they rescued a calf or a cow from from imminent slaughter, and the tag in that animal's ear was 269, you know, the way they they brand and tag for the
00:39:25
Speaker
processing system. um So 269 has since become a a number connected with the de liberation of animals or the suffering of animals, depending on how you want to sort of look at it. So there's lots people go around with 269 as a tattoo and stuff around Europe now. The first time I heard of this group was when they'd occupied the the killing pits of some abattoir in the north of France.
00:39:47
Speaker
And there was a whole line of them sitting down in the actual stunning sort of alley bit. And they were being hosed with cold water by the staff there who were who were trying to remove them, but they stayed there for the whole day and they shut down the ah killing part of the abattoir.
00:40:03
Speaker
And there's people on top of the roofs with sort of those smoke canisters going. It was really dramatic. It was really photogenic. And oh it was it was um it was ah amazing to see. It's amazing to see that sort of stuff, and the sort of crossover that between very intense forms of nighttime direct direct action and very civil protests. It's the sort of meeting point in but in between those two things where you're going to get arrested.
00:40:27
Speaker
the The charge isn't going to be too heavy, but and it's sort of ah an act of civil dis disobedience, I suppose. It's brilliant to see. I wonder as well, I mean, you've you've mentioned there, Mark, that the visual imagery potential for that. And obviously you've mentioned, Kate, it's this is not the only news outlet that this has been reported in so it's getting across to people but i would have thought the empowering feeling of anybody who has done that or has been closely associated with somebody that has let's say you've got a friend in in animal rights who who has done this you might not have done it yourself the the the confidence and the
00:41:08
Speaker
impetus to continue your activism must be huge but but because that we can feel like we are so disempowered in a world where animals are routinely exploited to the tune of billions if not trillions a year across the world.
00:41:25
Speaker
So to actually, even just for a short time, say, I'm going to put myself in a position where this can't happen anymore. I'm going to block this. I'm going to stop you doing that. And for that actually to work. And yes, you get arrested. And yes, they'll carry on again, you know, a few hours later or a day or two later.
00:41:42
Speaker
But to actually have done that, I reckon that must fuel people for for many, many months and years beyond. not Not that people would necessarily need it because of course you'd need to be very dedicated to do that in the first place. But there must be an incredible buzz.
00:41:57
Speaker
So long as you are released and so long as you aren't mistreated, which it does look like, they're you know as the animal reader reports, there's... um Nearly 30 Italian activists who were still being held, nine people who took part in the blockade in the Netherlands were in custody for quite a while too. So obviously it comes with that caveat that ah obviously if ah it has such an effect that it then...
00:42:26
Speaker
affects your work or or your family or or things like that because of the criminal charges or there's rumours of violent treatment from some of the authorities for some of these activists like it it needs to be sustainable in that regard and that's a bit questionable like at the moment isn't it?
00:42:45
Speaker
So I think particularly targeting the Irish calves importation as well at the moment because they have to be obviously they are trucked in and have to go on the ferry and it takes between 30 and 48 hours for them to reach the destination and and during that time especially because some of them as young as like 15 days old apparently and they should only be having milk They should only be having their mother's milk, obviously.
00:43:15
Speaker
But they're only liquid feeding. And they don't get fed at all. So, you know, it's... Well, the whole thing's hideous. I don't know. And and and I know they've they've been trying to... You know i think it's the Stenner line that have been... ah Often the ferry that is used.
00:43:33
Speaker
And yet, as a proportion... of all the carbs that are imported into the Netherlands, that's a fraction of the 12% that come from the whole of the eu So, yeah, i thought i fight i'm i just I'm in awe of these these people. they are Apparently, they're a women-led organisation.
00:43:55
Speaker
They're very brave. If you look at their Instagram, like Mark was saying, they're an amazing person Very, very powerful photographs there and first-hand accounts of what it's been what it was like for them. Yeah, I just, it must fuel them, like you say. it really must fuel them into becoming better advocates, speaking up more loudly for the animals.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just in awe. Fantastic, fantastic stuff. ah Up the revolution. And I was thinking maybe we could encourage the BBC to feature the process of of shipping 15 day old calves on the Stenner line on on the next episode of Countryfile.
00:44:38
Speaker
And it doesn't seem like they would see anything wrong with that. and we And we can we can show show people that that's going on because that's another practice that people wouldn't think. would happen Thank you for that one, Kate.
00:44:49
Speaker
Now, Mark, let's hear from your pick for the week now. You are reporting on the lack of action from the Labour government in the UK. They've been in power for a year and shortly before coming into power, Steve Reid said,
00:45:04
Speaker
who is now the Environment Secretary, promised, well, he didn't necessarily promise all these things, but he said the Labour government would be absolutely brilliant. They'd deliver the biggest boost for animal welfare in a generation.
00:45:15
Speaker
But there's rather a long list of things that a year into their term, they've not actually done. what's What's the deal here? The Labour Party of the UK, right? did The graveyard of all our dreams.
00:45:27
Speaker
Here we go. So Labour has failed to implement any of its promised animal welfare policies in its first year in office and has also weakened protections for chickens, Animal Equality UK, the Animal Law Foundation and Humane World for Animals UK have said.
00:45:44
Speaker
Among the pledges have not been implemented that have not been implemented are banning the sale of animals with cropped ears, prohibiting imports of hunting trophies and banning imports of foie gras.
00:45:56
Speaker
Additionally, earlier this month, the Labour government laid an amendment regulation in Parliament to take effect in July, removing illegal protection under European regulations that prohibits the carrying of chickens and turkeys by their legs.
00:46:08
Speaker
Edie Bowles, the executive director of the Animal Law Foundation, said, as an animal lawyer, I've become accustomed to the disregard shown towards animal protection legislation, whether that be the broken promises around creating the much needed improvements through to enforcing the laws that are in place.
00:46:26
Speaker
In fact, the government's decision to dilute illegal protection for chickens and turkeys has laid bare something that should cause concern among anyone who cares about animals. The government has shown that should it ever become inconvenient to follow the law to protect animals, the government will simply change the law to allow the practice.
00:46:44
Speaker
Claire Baisse, the senior director Senior Director of Campaigns and Public Affairs for the Humane World for Animals UK, said, During a full year in office, the government has found no parliamentary time to introduce the promised stronger protections for animals, such as a ban on hunting trophy imports.
00:47:01
Speaker
Shortly before coming into power, Steve Reid, now Environment Secretary, promised the Labour government would deliver the biggest boost for animals in a generation. He said they would end illegal puppy farming, prohibit the importation of cats and dogs with fashion-based mutilations, ban the use of snare traps, ban the importation of heavily pregnant cats and dogs, and accelerate the phase-out of animal testing.
00:47:22
Speaker
Okay, so ah the Labour Party, we've been here before with them. The last time they had a long run in power with the new Labour Project under Tony Blair, sometimes i think it was around 1997,
00:47:34
Speaker
they made a similar series of pledges in their manifesto. In fact, one of their manifesto pledges was to instigate a royal commission to look into vivisection. Okay, and so so that wasn't just a random promise made an off-the-cuff remark made by a minister when questioned.
00:47:51
Speaker
At one point, it was written down in their manifesto, and this was taken really seriously by the animal rights movement. at the time and we had had about 17 or 18 years of Tory government and I was living in Britain at the time I i remember that the tension it was just post thatchers it was John Major and the IRA were still active it was it was a very different Britain uh Labour were coming in with a whole host whole trolley full of promises promising everything to everyone right ah including to the animal rights animal welfare community this promise to investigate the the vivisection industry to see what they could do about reducing if not eliminating the need for animal testing so they came into power and and did they do that no of course they did not uh do to do that so that that uh made a guy called barry horn have you heard of an individual called barry horn the sort of probably the only animal rights sort of moratorium, I suppose, that the the movement has has had.
00:48:46
Speaker
he was He was serving an 18-year prison sentence at the time for and allegedly planting a lot of firebombs in department stores around Britain over a two or three-year period.
00:48:57
Speaker
And he was nabbed, he got 18 years. During his time in prison, he wanted Labour to stick to their manifesto and they didn't. So he went on a series of hunger strikes, which ended up in him getting liver disease and then dying in 2001. And it really pushed the Labour government into showing their true colours. So they had they had made this promise and now they weren't following through.
00:49:19
Speaker
And even under the under under the face of the daily pressure of this individual wasting away in a prison, through lack of food and all the drama and the attention that that that the that he was getting from the media, even then they refused to hold themselves to their own promise around a ah ah a rock ah Royal Commission on Animal Experiments. So this is typical of the Labour Party. it's It's disappointing, but it's not surprising. It's frustrating. And I remember being frustrated living in Britain and feeling that you were in essentially a one-party state.
00:49:51
Speaker
with two wings to it, sort of a left and a right wing of of the same movement. And you really didn't have any choice. And because of the first-past-the-post system, ah vote for the Greens, whilst well-intentioned, usually just didn't do anything. And you just you never felt that you were represented by anyone that you liked.
00:50:11
Speaker
or reflected you at any point. up um was living in Britain for about 16 years. At no point did I feel warmth towards the government there. At no point the government feel warmth towards me or people like me. it was just this parallel system society thing you you never felt you could even get a look in, really.
00:50:28
Speaker
that things like direct direct action and civil disobedience were the only options there. It wasn't an alternative to voting. It was the only thing that you could do because voting just seemed to achieve nothing. It's disappointing.
00:50:38
Speaker
Keir Starmer, unlike any of his Tory counterparts, was once a good guy. He was once one of us. He once gave his time pro bono to the Mac libel too when they were taking on McDonald's but back in the 90s.
00:50:52
Speaker
No other Tory PM or minister has has ever done anything like that. So when they came into power and I was reading up about the guy and I found this out about him, that he had helped Helen Steele and Dave in the Mac Libel 2 case for free,
00:51:10
Speaker
I was thinking, right, he can't be that bad. Turns out he is. know And there's a good chance that hardly any of these promises are going to be pushed through.
00:51:21
Speaker
the this The snare trap ban, there's a possibility that they probably will close the loophole allowing fox hunts to continue fox hunting, which is bad by banning trail hunting. and They probably will do that.
00:51:33
Speaker
That sort of low impact stuff, it doesn't cost them much to do that. It might cost them a few loads, but doesn't cost them really any money. Anything that might threaten their or their corporate friends' profits, a different matter entirely. And they'll keep promising until they get into power next time. And then they'll keep making promises until they earn your ah and eternal sort of cynicism.
00:51:53
Speaker
So it's it's a shame. Yeah, I don't see much hope in this. when When it comes to animal welfare, the traditional left have been as impotent as the right in sort of coming to terms with animal rights. Yeah, it's it's certainly disheartening, isn't it? And I mean, it's it's kind of exemplified by a spokesperson from DEFRA who have said, we've wasted no time in delivering the most ambitious plans for to improve animal welfare, which when you then look at the following quote, this includes improving animal welfare standards in zoos, which we reported on about a month or so. It's it's nothing.
00:52:30
Speaker
It's nothing. It's basically saying you mustn't tie birds down to a perch. And, and yeah you know, it's it's like obvious stuff. And then they go on and say, and plans to crack down on puppy smuggling. but Well, that's not actually happened. So to say we've wasted no time, it's like, no, it's been a year and you've literally done one thing that's the most tokenistic, pointless thing ever. that the The zoo thing, like basically every major zoo in the UK will have already been abiding to the standards that they've said, oh, these are now mandatory. It's only like
00:53:03
Speaker
little tin pot zoos that have got like five animals in in someone's backyard they're the only ones really affected by it but yeah what are your thoughts on this kate yeah thoroughly depressing i i'd heard about key kia starmer and the greenpeace or group is london yeah that's it yeah And thought, oh, great, we we might have a grown-up in charge for a change. But, yeah, I mean, we've got badger culling still going on as well. And, you know, that's just so nonsensical, really. Yeah, I just, I'm thoroughly depressed by it all. We did have Andrew Knight and people standing in a few places for the Animal Welfare Party. They'd get my vote if they if they they do that again.
00:53:49
Speaker
which I hope they do. Well, just have to do it all ourselves, won't we? You know, just won't be able to rely on the politicians, which we probably shouldn't have been trying to do anyway. Anyway, thank you for that one, Mark.
00:54:02
Speaker
We have now heard Mark and Kate's pick for the week, but we very much value and love hearing from anyone out there who would like to express their opinion, whether it's on a story we've covered or something else, or you just want to send us a message to say hello.
00:54:16
Speaker
Here's how to get in touch with us. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:54:37
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, we've got time for one last story. We're going to do something a little bit different now. um We're going to tell you about some of the stories that we're not featuring on the show. We try and keep the the length of each episode to an hour, hour and 10 minutes, something like that, because at the end of the day...
00:55:00
Speaker
we've got to record it and we've got to edit it and you've got to listen to it. So we have to draw the lines somewhere. So some stories always get the cut and don't get featured, but we thought we'd include them in the show notes and maybe just read you a little headline ah before moving on to our last one. So and We've got one from the Vegan Society's website.
00:55:19
Speaker
The Vegan Society commends the government for its new focus on sickness prevention rather than treatment. But the neglect of diet change, specifically the benefits of plant based living in this announcement, means that the 10 year plan is missing a key ingredient.
00:55:35
Speaker
So the Vegan Society says. Not happy with the UK government either. From SBS.com, which is an Australian news source, they say that delicious ethical option or Frankenstein food, that is their headline, they are talking about cultured meat, which has hit Australian menus this week.
00:55:56
Speaker
As we've reported before on cultured meat, it's not many menus but some eateries are adding it to their offering. There's also a link in the show notes for a short little reel on Facebook of a punk band singing a very anti-McDonald's song in the middle of McDonald's with a crowd surfing Ronald McDonald. So do follow the link for that one. Thank you, Mark, for sending us that one.
00:56:22
Speaker
And finally, The National, which is a Scottish at news source, reports that the SSPCA, so that's their equivalent of the RSPCA, um is advising members of the public to take certain animals to the vet instead of sending out officers to rescue them following a compliance issue. So basically, most of their calls, now small wildlife cases, so birds, hedgehogs, bats, they're going to advise members of the public yeah public to take those animals to a vet.
00:56:52
Speaker
rather than asking the SSPCA to collect them. So like say, links in the show notes for all of those if you want to find out more. But our last story comes to us from Plant Based News and it is the story that Switzerland's Federal Council have introduced new legislation requiring all foods produced by animals who experienced plant-based painful procedures to declare this information on the label.
00:57:20
Speaker
You might have seen this story. It was reported a lot on social media and in sort of vegan and plant-based circles. um I have to say the pictures that accompanied them were misleading because they were that they had these big labels put on, kind of like the the smoking labels that you get on um cigarettes and things.
00:57:39
Speaker
um And these are not the labels that were being used. These were sort of artificially generated example labels, but that those are not the ones that are necessarily going to be used, I don't think anyway. The new legislation has applied since July the 1st, but there is a transitional period of two years.
00:57:57
Speaker
They say that the change in labelling requirements, the the Federal Council of Switzerland, will increase food industry transparency and empower consumers to make fully informed purchasing decisions when it comes to animal products.
00:58:12
Speaker
So, We're talking about painful procedures without anesthesia for for things like milk, eggs, meat. So the procedures, sensitivity warning, ah dehorning, castration, debeaking, the removal of frog's legs, they're all common practices within factory farming. And the new rules will apply to any of these practices and all businesses that sell these foods, including restaurants. so I'm not quite sure how that would work, whether you would put a a thing on the menu, or whether someone would just come out and announce it with your food. Here's your burger, by the way. Here's how it was produced. Or whether there's a sticker that you put on the restaurant window. Not sure about that one.
00:58:54
Speaker
um Incidentally, Switzerland has also prohibited the importation of fur and fur products linked to animal cruelty. The Federal Council is separately seeking a more comprehensive import and trade ban on legally produced and traded furs two And if successful, retailers will have to clarify and provide evidence of production that meets Swiss animal welfare standards.
00:59:21
Speaker
Goodness me, it's all happening in Switzerland. They're not just hosting the women's European football championships. They're overhauling their animal rights outlook. Who wants to go first on this? What do we think?
00:59:32
Speaker
Yeah, on the face of it, it looks... I thought, oh, great. And wow, this is what we've always wanted, you know, labelling on things, because it puts the animal at the forefront of people's minds when they're looking at those products and considering buying them.
00:59:50
Speaker
Because most people buy products completely mindlessly. i know I used to without thinking, oh, that's actually that was actually a living, breathing animal. But apparently Switzerland already has very strong welfare laws, and a lot of the things they're talking about are actually banned in Switzerland.
01:00:12
Speaker
And so really, it's going to affect imports. So from elsewhere in the EU, I think bri Brazil and the US. So obviously, it's it's going to favour the locally produced, inverted commas, animal products.
01:00:30
Speaker
And were we'll hopefully not choose the other products. But I do wonder if perhaps it's going to mean that people are going to become even more sort of, it's a bit more like greenwashing for their own home animal products as if, hey, we've got higher welfare products here. You can buy them without having any crisis of confidence because but They haven't gone through these procedures, or or if they have, they've had to have anaesthetic, apparently.
01:01:05
Speaker
So they haven't gone through those procedures, or they they've had them and they didn't feel a thing. So therefore, it's all right to to eat these products. I don't know, what do you think? What are your thoughts on that? I think it seems to be mimicking the the campaign against tobacco that that sort of maybe started in the 80s and 90s. And and and there was there was those warning packets put on cigarettes and they gradually got bigger.
01:01:28
Speaker
And then they became and like photographs of people's teeth, ah rotting or hearts black black hearts or blackened lungs whatever and i don't smoke but um i do recall seeing some of those packets and they were really graphic and uh really designed to turn you off the whole thing i could see this developing into something akin to that which can only be a good thing it it will challenge people's ambivalence and cozy ability to sidestep the reality of
01:01:58
Speaker
what they're purchasing when they're in a supermarket because they the the music in the background and everything's really calm and the product in front of them is wrapped up in in as benign a fashion as possible.
01:02:09
Speaker
um remember people you you used to go into supermarkets and put these stickers, at sort of homemade DIY stickers onto frozen turkeys and all that saying that this is a product of death or this is death warmed up and Various things like this ah to to jolt people out of the sort of stupor they were in, you know, or sort of thinking was going.
01:02:30
Speaker
I agree, Kate, it could be used as a way of greenwashing the the Swiss sort of locally grown with anesthetic sort of a brand in order to demonize the imports. But it sort of ups the game of things. It makes it harder to...
01:02:46
Speaker
ignore the issue i would imagine yeah as you say anthony i don't think it'll be a sticker plastered across the front of the frozen carcass it'll be tucked away in the back maybe alongside the ingredients or something but as i say that uh font may get bigger over time and be replaced by graphic imagery and uh the heat industry is increasingly being pushed into a corner around this i doubt they like this happening And if that's the case, then I do like it happening.
01:03:15
Speaker
So more of what said. Switzerland is one of those peculiar places. It's very right wing politically in a lot of ways, but they have this system where it's split up into cantons.
01:03:26
Speaker
And if you get over a certain amount of signatures on a petition, it invokes a referendum and everyone gets to vote, all the public citizens, all the citizenry. It isn't just the corrupt MPs in parliament, everyone can get to vote on these.
01:03:41
Speaker
So you have, bizarrely, you have some very progressive laws in countries that have produced quite fascistic tendencies politically. But it's the way, it's the direct democratic process that they have there.
01:03:54
Speaker
i've I've also heard that, I mean, they are very worried about climate change there, aren't they? Because ah they can actually see the glaciers disappearing from,
01:04:05
Speaker
in the mountains, you know, they're just disappearing and disappearing. And so they're worried about the rivers that come from those glaciers, because obviously once the glaciers go, they're going to find that the perhaps the rivers are very low during the summer months, perhaps.
01:04:23
Speaker
So, and I think they do do quite a lot of education around the links between water eating meat and climate change so i think they are trying to promote more plant-based food anyway i and i also i had a look to see what their percentage of uh vegans are and it but it is compared so do you i don't know what it is uh in new zealand mark i've no idea it's about five percent apparently is it Yes. Wow. yeah Amazing. did The air figures vary, but the one consistent one has been between three and five percent. It does depend right when they're taken, where they're taken and so on.
01:05:02
Speaker
But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that that's pretty good. I think here are we about three, four percent, something like that, I think. I would have said two or three from what I've seen. But again, it depends on the survey, doesn't it?
01:05:13
Speaker
Well, they in Switzerland, they are 0.7%, 0.7%.
01:05:17
Speaker
I did actually meet a lovely vegan when I was there last year. she was She was so excited. She was so excited to meet us with our vegan T-shirts on. So, you know, that was really great. Little aside there.
01:05:30
Speaker
um but they they're i think they flexitarians are about 13 to 16 i'm not sure what we oh sorry no we're 13 to 16 and i don't know what they are whether there are more flexitarians there then yeah i don't know but yeah quite low on the vegan front at the moment so yeah i wonder if they're quite into their welfare washing it's it's a really interesting one and i i like on the one hand i'm i'm delighted that as far as i'm aware this is the first instance of a country mandating that anything to do with procedures carried out against animals has to be declared somewhere so in that sense it's great progress we're we're very futuristic vegans we are so so so ahead of the curve
01:06:19
Speaker
to be vegan in 2025, that any change is not going to be big enough or quick enough for us. We're always going to look at things and be like, yeah, but that's that's not enough and that's not soon enough and blah, blah, blah.
01:06:33
Speaker
So we're always going to feel that, but we we have to take that positive. I agree with Mark. I think it's going to be in the tiniest font in the back on the back of a packet underneath the postcode of the the the company's registered address that that's made it or whatever. It's going to be a tiny little thing. I would have thought, but it's a start.
01:06:51
Speaker
I also think it's really weird that like a country's decided that this is enough of an issue that it has to be declared on on a product. Yet it's still fine to sell that. It's still legal.
01:07:05
Speaker
you know what i mean? Like, I know it's it's there are many, many advantages of living in a libertarian democracy or whatever we want to call most of the the Western world. But but but actually, like the fact that you're saying this is bad, this is clearly an issue. This is clearly something that people need to be told about.
01:07:24
Speaker
But yeah, that's still a legal business. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. It's not exactly a caring state, is it? you know Oh, yeah, it's fine. but Yeah, you you can do do this to your lungs and to your dear children ah who are breathing in your passive smoke, but we'll warn you about it.
01:07:42
Speaker
but But then it's up to you. you know It's the same for this. Oh, these horrific things that are happening to to non-human animals. Yeah. It's appalling. Bean still do it. We'll just let you know.
01:07:53
Speaker
Right. Thank you everyone for listening to our falafel and our news and our opinions. If you have enjoyed the show, as well as leaving a little comment, we would love it if you could help us in the following way.
01:08:06
Speaker
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01:08:32
Speaker
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01:08:43
Speaker
Thank you everyone out there for listening. So we have the next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out, which is Vegan Talk. And it's available from Thursday, 24th of July. And it will be with Anthony, myself and Mark.
01:09:02
Speaker
And we will be reviewing the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. So give it a little listen before you hear the show. The link is in the show notes.
01:09:14
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Anthony and Kate for your contributions. Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Mark and you've been listening to Vegan Week from Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:09:31
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
01:09:46
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:10:12
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course, around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player,
01:10:39
Speaker
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