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183- High Court says no to chicken farm in landmark case
83 Plays7 days ago
In a country where there are already 65 chickens for every human, the High Court has decided that Shropshire (UK) has had enough. But will animal ag' just find a new place to exploit these innocent creatures? This week Julie, Richard & Ant look at this story, as well as eight other snippets from the last 7 days that are from the animal rights / vegan space.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c706gg2l7wpo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwygvp89gjzo
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/animal-rights-protester-runs-field-club-world-cup-122990249
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg6wy36vvno
https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/paris-vegan-baguette/
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/news/animal-rights-activists-to-shut-down-kfc-drive-thrus/705874.article
https://www.animaljusticeproject.com/post/we-disrupted-tescos-agm
https://riveractionuk.com/news/river-campaigners-win-high-court-case-against-shropshire-jcouncil/#:~:text=We%20have%20won%20a%20major,factory%20farming%20in%20the%20UK.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sporting/horse-racing/articles/cjdzv2vvlnjo
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Richard, Julie & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Weekly Vegan News
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, it is Anthony with your one-stop shop for the week's animal rights and vegan news. I'm not here alone, I'm here with Julie and with Richard, but that's enough of the falafel, let's get on with Vegan Week.
00:00:15
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrrr! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick the
00:00:42
Speaker
of social injustice has connection with another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:57
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello, I'm Richard. Welcome everyone listening to the show and thanks for being here. Hello everybody, it's Julie here.
00:01:09
Speaker
Welcome to this news show of ours where we look through last week's vegan and animal rights news and that is enough of the falafel.
00:01:21
Speaker
Let's hear what's been going on.
00:01:25
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories including links to our original source material check out our show notes for this episode available on your podcast player.
00:01:39
Speaker
Righty ho let's kick things off it's always a bit of a lucky dip as to what order our stories come in on vegan week I just sort of shove them all together carefully created of course but the the order is is quite random and i've just been looking through it as the intro music was playing and i'm going to say that we start with adversity this week but we gradually claw things back and end with some really you know heroic picks for the week so stick with us stick with us the downside of course is that the first story is not going to be as positive. It comes to us from the BBC where reserve staff have been told, have been telling families to kill caterpillars.
00:02:20
Speaker
The reserve specifically is Spurn, which is part of the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust. Spurn is a peninsula that extends into the Humber estuary, so north east-ish of England, if my geography is correct.
00:02:35
Speaker
The story comes the courtesy of a mother of two who is saying that um she felt physically sick when families enjoying a tour of the nature reserve were told to stomp on caterpillars. They were told that The invasive species deserve to be squashed because they were eating the leaves of the sea buckthorn.
00:02:57
Speaker
Now, my thinking here was that this might have just been a throwaway comment, but apparently... Families then were just killing with glee as many as they could. Unsurprisingly, Richard, the Wildlife Trust, the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust, have released a comment saying, well, of course, you know, we're we're retraining our staff now. This shouldn't have happened.
00:03:16
Speaker
But goodness me, what ah what a thing to be saying. And um let's hope they don't get into government, because if they're killing invasive species, the human beings haven't got ah much of a hope, really, have we?
00:03:27
Speaker
No, you know, ah I thought I had heard it all. i really thought so. And after we we come across this, I mean, invasive species is a, it's funny because we are the ones that are most likely to have brought those species into other countries, continents. I mean, what happened to Australia, you know, when cats were not from there, we brought them there.
00:03:51
Speaker
and we blame those animals that we brought ourselves it's a bit like you know a bit ridiculous when it comes to this story i mean how on earth do you tell people you need to squash them or quash them or kill them it's it's a bit like i cannot bring myself to terms with this i think it must have just been like a throwaway comment i i i mean maybe i'm naive but i can't imagine somebody actively saying, go out and kill as many as you can. I reckon it was like a joke and then people started doing it and they kind of didn't stop them.
00:04:24
Speaker
But eat either way, it's it's clearly not going to happen again. But it's, to I mean, Julie, we we recorded ah ah show a show few months ago talking about invasive species and and how it's ah a really uncharitable term. And it's like the whole thing of of saying, oh oh, it's because they're eating some of the plants. It's just like, come on, let's let's look at what human beings do, eh? Well, but also this put me in mind of the charity that exists in Scotland, at least it might exist other places, where volunteers can be given traps so they can kill grey squirrels who are seen as invasive species, you know, and that's a horrific thing, you know, to do.
00:05:07
Speaker
So yeah, I'm not surprised by the caterpillar comment in the light of things like that going on. You know, you can volunteer for a cute little squirrel charity and then be given a big trap to kill ones that are the colour and species that people decide are not welcome.
00:05:26
Speaker
I would say also that it shows the level of anthropocentrism. You were so close. I was so close. where We really think we know better than everything else on earth.
00:05:36
Speaker
And it's it's not only that we think we know more, we have a duty to do these things, which it's bizarre. Yes, despite our track record. But yeah, good that it's been called out.
00:05:48
Speaker
I'm going to assume, statistically speaking, that it was called out by someone who's not actually vegan. So I mean, whilst I want everyone to be vegan, I'm i'm always quite pleased when people who aren't vegan are are nonetheless sticking up for animals and changing people's behaviours. gives me a bit of hope for the future. And yeah, hopefully such horrid messages won't be put out in the future.
Controversies in Wildlife Management
00:06:09
Speaker
Well, unfortunately, Scotland's West Coast Harbour Seal numbers, despite the fact that the Yorkshire Wildlife Trust has not been telling people to go and kill them, their numbers have been dropping by themselves anyway. The statistics that are cited in this article, again from the BBC, says that between 2018 and 2023, the population fell by 20%. The real sad news here, I guess, is that this region has been long considered the last stronghold for marine mammals in the UK, or this specific marine mammal, I should say.
00:06:48
Speaker
And this is Scotland's west coast, just for context. Julie, that the article seems to suggest that they're not quite sure why the population is declining, because obviously these you know these things naturally would ebb and flow a little bit, but there they're citing that amounts of prey decline declining might have been a thing or it might be disease as as well as obviously more direct human influence. But either way, it's ah it's a sad story to read, isn't it? Yeah, I'm hoping that there isn't too much behind this other than ah kind of, I'm slightly wondering, they're saying, you know there's a call for targeted conservation measures and I just think, uh-oh, you know, what is it they are going to try and justify now?
00:07:36
Speaker
In the 60s and 70s, there was widespread culling of grey seals, which are native to in Scotland as well, and they're bigger.
00:07:49
Speaker
And, you know, that there was an inference in this article that one of the reasons that these... smaller um common or harbour seals might be in decline is that they're kind of getting shoved out by the grey seals and then put into you know foraging into places where they are not safe like rivers and to beaches where there are people so anthropocentrism is a great word but um anthropogenic causes of a decline in an animal's well-being and thriving is another and very useful and term really, isn't it?
00:08:29
Speaker
So I hope they're not trying to justify culling grey seals again. That's my worry. and I do think to myself how accurate, I mean, you don't always get a true picture of something when you research it, depending on how you do that.
00:08:48
Speaker
And you are as likely to have an effect on something through your observations. You know, you can't purely just observe anything.
00:08:59
Speaker
So is there something about the fact that they are using ah small aircraft and helicopters and and photo ID, whatever that means, and tagging these little animals, flippers and things, that actually is causing this little species to hide, you know, or or to be in affected in a way that they don't breed or something.
00:09:21
Speaker
So don't know if, you know, the the whole kind of study in them, how good an idea that really is. Maybe just leave them alone and stay away from their habitats and leave them in peace.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, it that I think that's a really, really insightful point. And I mean, I i see it near me, far fewer repercussions, I would say, than than interfering with SEALs. But near where I work, you you hear almost every day of the week, it seems, there are people out with strimmers and they've been ah contracted by the council.
00:09:54
Speaker
and they're you know destroying wildflowers and cutting back grass and things like this. And I think it's just an effort to say, look, look, I'm i'm doing the job you asked me to do. i'm I'm cutting all the things down. Watch me cut all the things down. And similar with these conservationists, that you kind of...
00:10:10
Speaker
Like you were saying, the the sort of, right, we need to we need to buckle down. We need to really aggressively conserve things now. And it's like, no, maybe you need to take a step back. and And without being too aloof of of these things,
00:10:24
Speaker
it's a 20% decline over five years. Actually, you need to look at the picture over ah ah much bigger amount of time ah ah as well. But also, you have to look at how the counting was done in the past and how it's being done now.
00:10:39
Speaker
And is that having an effect? or you know, how accurate was it before? And how accurate even is it? You know, do we really know You know, with these little animals, they might spend their time in other places. We are not looking for them that we don't even know about. It's not really our business.
00:10:58
Speaker
We should leave them to get on with it and leave them in peace. And that way they will thrive and try and just, as I say, you know, interfere with their habitat and you know as little as possible but you know when you look into it there's all these kind of government bodies and I can't remember what it was called now some kind of seal organization this and that and they're not animal rights are not you know on the side of the seal here but it just seems like jobs for the boys
00:11:30
Speaker
Doing all this research and getting all this tech, you know, so they can attach tags onto these poor little animals. And, you know, all they're wanting to do is come out of the water and and do their molting and do their breeding. And yet they're, you know, getting captured and tagged and things. It's just, yeah, I think it's a bit daft. I think it also highlights how us humans are quite unable to understand complex systems.
00:11:57
Speaker
And we tend to find that or we tend to need we have the need to just simplify things, cause effect, and that's it. But in reality, things are very complex. And it's quite difficult to figure out why things happen. Well, either way.
00:12:14
Speaker
Let's hope that the tide turns and those populations of seals start to thrive again.
Activism and Professional Ethics
00:12:22
Speaker
Our final story from the BBC, we've done an inadvertent trio of BBC stories for you, is reporting on a retired GP.
00:12:32
Speaker
who has been suspended to do with medical things, um not just hung from a lamppost, after animal rights demos. So the doctor in question is Dr. Sarah Benn. She worked in Birmingham for many years, I think it was 30 years or so.
00:12:50
Speaker
And when she retired in 2022, it seems that she started filling her time with protests, several of which resulted in her getting arrested. There was a climate protest in Warwickshire in 2022. She ended up being jailed because of a breach of a court order.
00:13:09
Speaker
And there was also an animal rights protest in Leadbury, in 2023, where there was some criminal damage involved. The criminal damage being spray painting, effectively. I think that's that's a fair enough synopsis.
00:13:23
Speaker
However, the the the headline here is the fact that she has had any kind of medical association stripped of her. So the General Medical Council told a tribunal that Dr. Benn lacked insight, minimised the seriousness of her misconduct and used her position to bring additional attention to climate change.
00:13:46
Speaker
Richard, what's your take on this one? I feel quite cross about it. I feel like she's been scapegoated or made an example of, but I don't know. Is she she bringing the animal rights movement into disrepute?
00:13:57
Speaker
I don't know. I have mixed feelings, if I'm honest, because on the one hand, in my head, whatever you do or most of the things you can do to get this this world to be a better place shouldn't be penalized in the way it is.
00:14:13
Speaker
On the other hand, and i might be playing devil advocate here, I understand the reasoning why if someone has had to deal with court sentence, they might consider that it's not fit for work. Now, just because they wouldn't go into picking, okay, if you're an animal activist...
00:14:34
Speaker
That's okay if you've been jailed, but if you've been... You name it, then no. I understand they can't make that distinction. um And that's my devil advocate's part.
00:14:46
Speaker
However, we faced we faced this in the past where Rosa Parks, for example, she disobeyed the norm at the time. And the only way to to move forward sometimes is to disobey.
00:14:58
Speaker
Peacefully, but disobeyed. I've got to say, I i mean... I know I'm going to sound like I'm i'm i'm partisan here, but she's said ah she was a general practitioner, wasn't she? But let's say she was a surgeon.
00:15:11
Speaker
If I was told, oh, right, the surgeon who's doing some surgery on you tomorrow has been arrested at a couple of climate change demos or, you know, they've been at the Palestinian embassy or or whatever, I think I'd be like, that's that's fine.
00:15:28
Speaker
Like, did did she damage her hands doing that? Like, is it going to affect her? job. like i just I just don't see why you should be stripped of your of your role. Like of your if you're not fit to work, that's one thing. But I can't see anything there that's suggesting in any way that she's she's not fit for work.
00:15:47
Speaker
And it seems like she's retired anyway. So they're kind of like whoever's got hold of this story and and put it into the the national media, that they're trying to make an example of her in a way that it's it's irrelevant. She's not going to be doing anything anyway is she if she's retired.
00:16:02
Speaker
You're never retired when you're a medic. Ever. Is there a GP on the plane? Well, well yeah, there is. But she she spray painted ah ah fence once in Leadbury, so you can't trust her. They retire over and over again, these people. do you know what?
00:16:19
Speaker
i would I would actively choose that lady it to be my surgeon, GP, whatever, given her credentials. In fact, you know what I mean? now with lot I think she's brilliant. as She has my total backing. Yeah, absolutely.
00:16:34
Speaker
Absolutely. I'm um um'm well on board. um when i' bought it would be I mean, obviously, it's it's someone's livelihood here. so ah what I'm about to say is is is kind of very hypothetical. But it it would be interesting to see how this would have proceeded if she was, let's say, in her 40s and still actively working.
00:16:56
Speaker
Like, how would they have gone? I wonder whether the General Medical Council have been harsher, in a sense, because they would... Expect less backlash, but don't know, you might have more of an insight on that, Julie. She's been denied the opportunity to come back in the way that most medical people do come back after retirement.
00:17:15
Speaker
So that is a shame. Do you think that if COVID 2.0 came back and there was a shortage, surely they would bring them back? Because they would need...
00:17:27
Speaker
ah people to help so I guess it's a bit like a political decision rather than yeah you know that's that's a really good point that's a really good point and I've got a feeling I might know what her answer would be actually just just to find a final thing on this one it it did say that as part of the ah part of the hearing she has now got restrictions placed on her with regards to her access to spray paint I'm not quite sure how that's mandated whether they've just sent sent her picture round to every home base in the country or what, but yes, apparently she can't get hold of spray paint anymore.
00:18:02
Speaker
Naughty, naughty. Anyway, she's she's got my backing and it sounds like and Julian Richards too. Let's move on to news of a 23 meter vegan ham and butter sandwich in Paris, shall we?
Highlighting Animal Welfare Through Public Stunts
00:18:15
Speaker
This was a Peter Stunt, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. They did this to mark International Picnic Day. How did you celebrate everybody? And they have done a ah world record.
00:18:28
Speaker
This is the world record for the longest vegan jambon burr, which is an iconic French ham and butter sandwich. I'd be interested to know if there was an existing record for this or whether they've just sort of created a category.
00:18:43
Speaker
But either way, it has made the news. um And the number 23 was significant, the 23 metre sandwich that was done to symbolise the 23 million pigs killed yearly for their meat.
00:18:58
Speaker
That is in France alone, which, Julie, is shocking, isn't it? I think sometimes we're numbed to... the scale of animal ag but when I read that I thought oh my goodness so um so good on Peter yeah I wonder what the UK number is though I'm sure I knew it some weeks ago but it's gone out my head but absolutely disgusting just to answer your point about you know was an existing world record did find that long baguettes are a thing
00:19:31
Speaker
Wow. no this one has a very specific filling with its ham and butter but the world old jaard for the longest beade i don't know i don't know if they specified of fell is and held by some french baakkerers and it's a hundred and forty point five three meters long wow So there you go. So this PETA one was relatively small as world record holding baguettes go, but it was there to prove a point. I think I've said this before about PETA. I love them like mad.
00:20:09
Speaker
I don't love everything they do. I didn't love this stunt very much. I think they possibly could have got that fact about the 23 million pigs being killed for their meat over in a different way.
00:20:23
Speaker
And sometimes for me, and know that sounds you shouldn't pick your cruelty, but... It isn't even... that's That's not all of it for me. It's the suffering that goes on before they are killed for their meat that appalls me more than anything. So, yeah, it's so only a tiny bit of the story, isn't it?
00:20:44
Speaker
I personally... just felt really, really squeamish at the thought of that amount of sort of margarine-like substance and fake ham outside in the sun what might have been a very long period of time until there was enough passersby to eat 23 meters of it. Yeah. and Because I thought if that might be some people's first taste of vegan stuff, that maybe isn't a good way to introduce it to them. Because I don't know, I've never had vegan butter before.
00:21:26
Speaker
and as aunt will remember i have had i haven't had vegan plant-based ham ever but if corn the experience i had with corn and this is the girl who can eat anything is there anything to go by if if if plant-based ham is anything like that thing that was made of corn that i tried to eat one time yeah yeah difficult very very difficult And so I ah don't know.
00:21:53
Speaker
I don't know how I feel about them doing this. And I'm a little bit worried about things like then food waste, which I'm sure there was after this and just the whole process being not very, you know, environmentally friendly and healthy.
00:22:10
Speaker
It might just be a bit of a put-off for people who might think, oh, I might choose some plant-based ham one day, you know, and and then they try that and they go, look oh, God, you know. It's been out in the sun for a couple of hours.
00:22:27
Speaker
i've I've had La Vie's stuff and I would definitely rank it above Quorn, but I suppose, ah you know, everybody's different. Okay. Me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um yeah, it's interesting.
00:22:40
Speaker
Any stunt like this is going to divide people, isn't it? it's It's just the way it goes. It's just the way it goes. But yeah, I i had the same thought. It looks... the the pictures that they've got which you can see if you follow the link in the show notes it looks like a very hot day and it doesn't look like there's many people despite the fact it being in the in the center of paris yeah i'm just thinking flies and you know all kinds of things landing on that and suddenly it's not fully plant-based if you're eating it um yeah yeah indeed indeed goodness me
00:23:13
Speaker
Well, this is not the only PETA-related stunt that reached the news this week. The next story comes to us from ABC News. If you're a football head like I am, you'll be aware that it is the Club World Cup at the moment, which has got its own controversies, none of which had to do with animal rights.
00:23:33
Speaker
However... However, we have covered on the show before the fact that ah the Moroccan government is taking a very aggressive stance towards stray dogs um ahead of the World Cup.
00:23:47
Speaker
So yeah, mor Morocco is one of the countries hosting the football the men's football World Cup. in 2030 and the government has decided to, well, they're saying they're doing a trap, neuter and return policy but lots of different people are saying, no, no, no you're not doing that. You are killing lot of these stray dogs.
00:24:07
Speaker
And indeed, an animal rights activist ran onto the field during one of these Club World Cup matches. It was between Manchester City and WeeDad.
00:24:18
Speaker
and Weedad are based in Casablanca, in Morocco, where lots of this stuff is happening. The protester had a shirt um and a sign that were both basically saying, Morocco, you need to end this massacre of stray dogs.
00:24:35
Speaker
I have to say, Richard, I found this story Yeah. but none of the football content that i consume quite intensively had any mention of this so i'm not sure how far this new bread but i mean some people will have come across it and and good to get the message out there to a different group of people Yes, I hadn't heard of this story. i don't I'm not following the Club World Cup that much. But, well, I i listen you know to the highlights and all this and I haven't haven't seen it.
00:25:09
Speaker
The only thing with this is like... I think it doesn't help dogs. And let me explain what I mean. I think most most people, and I hope I'm wrong, will just say, look what murder the Moroccan government is doing or how people in Morocco treat dogs.
00:25:30
Speaker
And I feel like if someone did the same saying UK stop killing pigs or stop killing cows, probably we don't relate to the fact that the problem is not the dogs, which is a problem. It's every life. And we tend to just assume the different cultures. We might not understand them. And it's like, how on earth can they do this? Well, in China, they eat dogs and here we eat cows. So although it is horrible thing, it's not different from the badger culling. It's not different from any of these things. So I tend not to like single issue campaigns because we shift the problem towards another animal rather than do a deep analysis of what's the
00:26:21
Speaker
What's the morality and what are the reasons that make us do these things? i I do agree with the rationale. that you're giving there.
00:26:31
Speaker
I personally think of of all the single issue campaigns you could go for, this is one that is a lower hanging fruit in that, you know, the example you gave about UK stop killing pigs, there's whole cultural history there that would have to change for that. Whereas this is a a government policy that is active now and actually in the world spotlight, embarrassing a country's government into changing its behaviour. I don't think for a moment that that it will stop, although we've seen lots of different protests in different ways giving this same message. So, like you know, it stands a chance. But, i'm you know, i was I was glad it happened um and...
00:27:16
Speaker
you know raising the issue and with with a thing that very often we can feel helpless with and we know we know that people are speciesist aren't they so they're more likely to say oh let's not do horrible things to dogs um as a first step but um interesting one interesting one i thought i also thought it was a very brave move because um The Trump administration has been very power, even more power mad than normal. But in terms of like military and security focus for this club World Cup, been saying, look at all the troops that we've got and and and things like that. So to actually run on onto a pitch in the middle of the match, like you know, if we'd heard that he'd been shot, I kind of wouldn't be surprised. So well done, a brave person for expressing their opinion. And let's let's hope it makes a difference whether we think it will or not.
00:28:04
Speaker
Last little story before we go on to our pick for the week.
Protests Against Corporate Animal Welfare Practices
00:28:08
Speaker
And thegrocer.co.uk, who we have featured stories from before, are revealing that the Humane League UK have got plans to shut down KFC drive-thrus across the country this summer. um The story goes on to say they've not said which ones they're going target yet. And you think, well, duh.
00:28:28
Speaker
Of course not. um But this is in a response to a story that we've we've reported on a few times. KFC, surprisingly, not sticking to their animal welfare promises of ah about 10 years ago.
00:28:42
Speaker
ah They said that they would, I think it was 2016, but I'm scrolling and I can't. can't see when it was. it was It was definitely many years ago. They said, oh, we're not going to use those frankenchickens. We'll have stopped that by 2026.
00:28:56
Speaker
And then last November, that pledge just disappeared off their website and and they've not responded to any any comment on the matter. So it seems like they've tried to quietly brush it under the carpet.
00:29:08
Speaker
But, Julie, the Humane League and apparently the grocer, are bringing it back to the front of our consciousness and sounds like an interesting targeted protest.
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's unusual to announce what you're going to do and you know in terms of taking action before you're doing it, because I would have thought the element of surprise was going to be helpful to them in gaining access to these sites and a meaningful way to set up whatever they're going to do to seemingly shut them down, you know because it'll make them a wee bit more el alert, perhaps, for these things.
00:29:48
Speaker
Now they've had a wee bit of a heads up that some vegans might be coming to cause a bit of disruption. Or do you think it'll be like ah like a bomb scare? They don't actually intend to do it, but they're just trying to disrupt them by saying, hey, we're going to target all your drive-thrus.
00:30:03
Speaker
um I don't know how much disruption that would cause. but i um I've been doing a bit of research into the target market for drive-thrus I've never used one in my life I'm going to sound like a snob here and I don't care and and can I put in brackets that when I was younger I was so skint I've eaten out of bins but I definitely would never frequent one of these one of these things but anyway so i I don't know what they've got planned in terms of, you know, disruption, how you would go about that.
00:30:36
Speaker
But in I have been looking at the the target market, um you know, a behind the scenes look at how KFC envisage their customer base and, you know, just getting a bit behind the whole thing. They use the phrase busy families, busy families, busy.
00:30:55
Speaker
you know All these executive stress toddler children you know that don't have time consuming from home cooked food or whatever. Anyway, you know ah a couple of things come to mind. I think it wouldn't be that hard from what I'm reading to disrupt a drive-thru experience.
00:31:14
Speaker
If you just made it that people had to actually get out the freaking car and walk to that window a few hundred meters, that would be enough for them to drive on and go somewhere else probably. Yeah, and the whole, you know, trap, neuter and return comes to mind.
00:31:30
Speaker
i would have that. I would have that installed in that window as well. See, while you're here, just, you know, roll your window down. Let's get on with this. Yeah, I would do that.
00:31:41
Speaker
And it's just getting so bad out there that I can see that, you know what? We're not that far away from just having a horrible big mega farm.
00:31:57
Speaker
with animals just piled in, swimming about in their own crap and then killed and then processed and chugged around and then ah all the bits just kind of out on some kind of conveyor belt and processed.
00:32:15
Speaker
And these people can just open their car window and open their mouth. You know i mean? It's just getting to that point where we're getting so close to the... Everything's so close together now, isn't it? It's like everything is so super duper processed and fast, fast, fast.
00:32:32
Speaker
They could just pull up in their car, roll down the window. ah Well, they they don't even have to roll down the window. They just press a button, don't they? And, you know, they could just have all that pork fat just injected straight in.
00:32:46
Speaker
you know yeah i mean your your point about winding down the windows is is completely valid like you know you you could use a bit of energy to to do that but no and no and no but no no they're gonna end up designing cars that recognize the camera recognizes when you've come to a drive-through and it will put the window down for you and you know, a thing will go out and collect your meal and a wee tray will just come out of your dashboard the area and,
00:33:17
Speaker
so that you can sit and, you know, eat in your car, because, you know, that's a great dining experience, isn't it? I am sounding snobby. No, no, I completely agree with you. They're they're one of the most odious things in in the whole of, quote, civilization, I think. When you when you tot up the number of crimes against humanity and the planet that are going on simultaneously in a fast food drive-thru, it's just...
00:33:41
Speaker
Yes, it it does make you rather misanthropic, doesn't it? Well, and yeah I mean, this is a side issue, but as an ah observation, as somebody who regularly cleans their car out and hoovers it, but does not eat in their car, I may add, anytime you drop anything, if you do in a wee emergency stop and things fall off your passenger seat down the side...
00:34:02
Speaker
Cars have never, they've been designed to do fantastic things, but nobody's ever designed a car where it's really easy to hoover it or easy to retrieve an item that's fallen off the seat down the side or beside the handbrake area. I don't even have a handbrake anymore. haven't got a button on my car, but you know, that area in the middle where your cup holder is and down the sides of the seats, if anything falls down there, it's gone forever.
00:34:27
Speaker
and Imagine if a piece of food goes down there and, you know, I mean, is a dead body as well, you know, that is just going to really rot in your car.
00:34:39
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Well, any entrepreneurs listening, Julie is looking for a sort of an easy wipe down, sort of like walk in shower room. you know, that often people have installed in their homes. Something like how that. But a bit of a car.
00:34:52
Speaker
Anyway, good for you, Humane Week. You're doing your best in very trying circumstances there. This is another very single issue campaign and it is a little bit worrying.
00:35:06
Speaker
For the people who have just recently joined us or don't know what a frankenchicken is, these are the chickens that grow from hatching to... Not just full grown chickens because they are bigger than normal full grown chickens. They are absolutely gigantic, the equivalent of a 38 stone toddler, I think.
00:35:25
Speaker
And they they only live for 35 days. They can't usually stand up. So they're just balanced on their wee chests and there they they're having to sit in their own wee and their skin is all burned.
00:35:38
Speaker
They are the most hideously unhealthy little animals that you could ever imagine. And that's what KFC use because of the gigantic amount of chicken body that they process and everything like that. that's what That's what makes they you know meets their demand. They cannot...
00:36:03
Speaker
Their producers can't provide them with enough dead chicken if they use the s slower growing normal-ish. I mean, no chickens are normal now. We've done a lot to them genetically over the years.
00:36:15
Speaker
So that's what this is about. The Humane League UK, can promise you, are vegan, are animal rights based. They don't want anybody to be eating any kind of chicken, even a chicken that's got its own name and gets patted every day and is loved.
00:36:31
Speaker
They don't want anybody to be any chicken. to be eaten at any chicken so this is a bit of kind of single issue of a single issue in a sense but I suppose you've got to start somewhere so what bits of it are a bit uncomfortable for me because are they saying oh well if you just use these more slow and growing chickens when then we're totally fine you'll just carry on that's all fine you know ah I always think that when you are an animal rights campaigner if you are
00:37:03
Speaker
prepared to make a concession if you're prepared to say let's start here let's start with this always be clear every time you are doing that work in saying but we don't want to stop here this is where we're starting but this isn't where we want to stop and they're not doing that as far as i can see but if you look around their website they are tremendous people doing amazing work good for them Good for them.
00:37:28
Speaker
Right, we're going to take a 10 second breather, if that, then we're going to come back with Julie and Richard's pick for the weeks. We've got some more animal rights activists disrupting things and we've got a landmark high court case win.
00:37:50
Speaker
Okay, Richard, let's start with yours. I am moving to Shropshire very soon, and I was delighted to read of this news that 200,000 bird-intensive poultry units are being refused.
00:38:05
Speaker
But interestingly, Rich, this was one where the local council gave approval for it, but your story, your pick of the week, is the fact that River Action have taken this decision to the High Court and it's been reversed.
00:38:21
Speaker
Yes. So their plan was to build a 230,000 bird mega build near Shrewsbury. Shrewsbury. um but the was proposed to build a dr three you bruise bra hey cherusly okay You're doing very well, Richard.
00:38:40
Speaker
Well, you're doing very well. Thank you. Within the River Severn catchment. And it was just it it was located controversially it just 400 metres from another large poultry unit.
00:38:55
Speaker
And it raises biosecurity concerns around disease. and obviously ignoring government guidance on unit spacing. So the key legal points here are that the judicial review, the High Court in Cardiff, led by Dr Alison Cuffin, which is River Action Board member, so the court found that Shropshire Council had not lawfully evaluated the indirect environmental effects of manure production spreading and the cumulative impact of multiple intensive poultry units in the seven catchment.
00:39:32
Speaker
So the judgment quashed planning permission stating that the council treated manure disposal as someone else's problem and granted approval without proper scientific rigor.
00:39:44
Speaker
This matters quite a lot because um high phosphate levels deplete oxygen in rivers, threatening fish, plant life, And already the 7 and the Y are suffering because of this.
00:39:57
Speaker
it It's also a legal precedent, meaning we already have a case which has been um overturned, which is great news. And it also has nationwide implications because similar developments might be vulnerable to be turned out.
00:40:17
Speaker
Gosh, there's a lot for unpacking in this story, but um I'll wrap it up. Do you do you have a a hesitation or a kind of nagging feeling along the lines of the fact that this judgment is not saying, therefore, chicken farms shouldn't exist.
00:40:33
Speaker
Therefore, don't eat chicken. Like it's it's not a vegan message, this, is it at all? it's It's slowing down. It's disrupting. It's making it harder. for poultry farms to exist, but it's not outlawing them.
00:40:45
Speaker
No, absolutely. However, it is good news. It's the first step. It might not be a major win in terms of telling people, listen, maybe we're not doing this right, and maybe we shouldn't be killing chickens, and we shouldn't let them live in horrendous conditions, living in their own manure.
00:41:02
Speaker
um because obviously the environmental reasons are important and health reasons for people also, but the amount of suffering these animals go through in their short span of life, it's unbearable.
00:41:16
Speaker
So I feel like this is stage one where it's okay, there's effects that were not taken into account, therefore, no, you cannot build ah such a big...
00:41:31
Speaker
factory here ah effectively it's a morgue but anyway it's true and hopefully little by little by little we will be gaining conscious of these things should not be constricted in the first place we need to change the way we approach things and we should just stop eating animals we all We would like this to happen as soon as possible, but I see this as a victory. And like you say about kind of raising people's consciousness, it's in a sense, it's a decision that is based on more holistic thinking, isn't it?
00:42:10
Speaker
It's saying... You can't have another poultry farm there because think of the cumulative effect. So so it's it's getting people to think more holistically, which if if that becomes people's way of thinking more or in terms authority's way of thinking more, then you're more likely to think about the environmental impact of things as as well. I think the um the whole thing of there being areas of the country where there's loads and loads of of a certain type of animal ag, I wonder whether there's almost a learned helplessness that
00:42:47
Speaker
there for residents and they just think well we can't do anything to stop this this is just a tidal wave there's a stat here saying there are nearly 65 chickens for every person in Shropshire you can imagine like a thing where you're just kind of like well we you know this is just what happens here just chickens are exploited here that they're just everywhere whereas if you went to somewhere different in the country and said hey we're thinking of having a 230,000 chicken mega farm here they'd be like what what the hell do you what are you talking about? Of course you can't have that.
00:43:20
Speaker
Whereas that learned helplessness might, might be a thing. So kind of stopping that tidal wave might, might be quite a significant obstacle. Hope so anyway. i I also would like to say that I think not everyone is aware of the consequences of these farms.
00:43:37
Speaker
So i really wonder if you asked 100 people down the street, they might have never thought about what happens with their manure, what happens with...
00:43:49
Speaker
All these things. It's like, you know, it comes once a week, we'll get our ah curbside and we'll get the the green bags or however, you know, everyone has them.
00:44:01
Speaker
I don't think a super high percentage of the population really think what happens with that waste. Yes. So I think raising awareness of what happens when you have these big factory farm facilities all the consequences, I think at least it raised awareness because people might have thought, oh yeah, what happened? It's true. They have their manure and they all all all these things and they might have not thought it goes to the river or they can to produce contamination, which at least it raises awareness. Raising awareness. Education's the key. Got to spread the information, haven't we?
00:44:38
Speaker
No, that's brilliant. Thank you for that one, Richard.
Legal and Cyber Challenges in Animal Rights
00:44:41
Speaker
Julie, let's move on to your pick for the week now. I've just re-watched the video. Goodness me, you would think that the the folk on the stage at the Tesco AGM were had their lives threatened, such was the the heavy-handed response of the the men in suits who carried away these protesters but te tell us a little bit more about your story which is namely from the animal justice project that tesco's agm has been disrupted
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, so Tesco, the great big supermarket chain, had its AGM recently and it was attended not just by all of its board and all its shareholders. Well, not all of them probably, but some of its shareholders.
00:45:27
Speaker
I did attempt to watch the entire thing online. I didn't get very far. ah kind of then skipped through it to see if I could see if on their online version they'd kept the Animal Justice Project UK's little altercation on there, but I couldn't see it.
00:45:48
Speaker
So, yes, to go back to that, a the Animal Justice Project UK, they are, obviously, you can get it from the name, UK-based animal rights charity.
00:45:59
Speaker
They do a variety of different types of work. So one of their big things is... um undercover investigation. So they'll send people out into environments where animals are abused, not just places like factory farms and slaughterhouses, but labs and breeding farms, all of these environments.
00:46:24
Speaker
and get undercover footage, which they then share with us. And we have the privilege of being educated, although it's a painful experience, about things that we would never know about or see. And they do incredible work.
00:46:39
Speaker
And they do all sorts of other campaigning as well. They've got a fantastic website where there are lots of opportunities to very easily take action for a variety of animal rights issues.
00:46:52
Speaker
So anyway, It was Sean Bars and annagarla didn't recognize a went up on the stage at the Tesco AGM. and And their message was meant to be, Tesco is complicit in pig abuse, drop Cranswick now.
00:47:11
Speaker
um In the heat of the moment, Sean has switched it to Tesco is implicit. But, you know, we kind of know. We kind of know what he was getting at. It was a bold move. As disruption goes, it wasn't too disrupting because, you know, they were very quickly shooed off and they were doing that thing.
00:47:32
Speaker
You know, that tone of voice that people use when they're doing that type of disruption. It actually makes it quite hard to hear what the words are and what they were saying. And they were shouting over each other as well. And...
00:47:45
Speaker
It wouldn't be my approach, but I don't know if the Animal Justice Project do an awful lot of research into behaviour change, attitude change, you know, influencing people, creating desire for a different future. Now, do they do their homework on what really is an effective campaign? I don't know.
00:48:07
Speaker
But that wouldn't be my approach. But then I am in a campaigner in that sense at all. So I don't know how effective that kind of thing would be.
00:48:20
Speaker
It did get a bit of press. So that's good because actually it's not the Tesco shareholders that we need to be talking to. We need to demonstrate to Tesco where customer demand is likely to be because that's all they care about.
00:48:36
Speaker
That's all they care about. Without customers, even these fat cat people with all their money and all what they've got just now, without customers, they are nothing. They would be, you know, broke.
00:48:47
Speaker
So yeah, it is down to that. Tesco are never going to drop Cranswick. They're absolutely in bed with Cranswick. It's their biggest supplier. It's the only supplier that delivers on the scale that something as big as Tesco require anyway.
00:49:07
Speaker
And if that were not frightening enough, Tesco has relaunched this thing called their Sustainable Pig Group. And this is the kind of thing that I have been worried about happening for ages.
00:49:22
Speaker
I'm glad you're raising this, Julie, because when I read this, I was just furious, like the cheek of naming something that, and we should be used to greenwashing and humane washing by now, but it's a sickening... This is really frightening, really frightening, because this is where the goalposts are really moving for us as people in the animal rights space, because...
00:49:46
Speaker
Even if we were to succeed in dissuading the government from propping up the failing, fouling animal ag industry,
00:49:59
Speaker
In comes the fat cat, big boy supermarket people who are going to just come in and fill that gap. So they're not just straightforwardly saying, oh, well, we'll pay you for your dead pigs.
00:50:16
Speaker
They are giving them extra money to help them out and smooth out the bumps in the road when the government doesn't give them, you know, subsidies, etc.
00:50:28
Speaker
So, you know, they're using their profits and things to prop up because this industry needs propping up. It doesn't survive on its own. And we were hoping that we were taking the legs from under it.
00:50:40
Speaker
But here come some more legs and that is worrying. There is nothing sustainable. in terms of environmental concerns about this sustainable pig group.
00:50:51
Speaker
It's nothing to do with... sustain That word sustainable is just becoming absolutely ridiculously overused and in very, very inappropriate context.
00:51:03
Speaker
If I can interject, Julie, when I read that I was thinking of all the and all the objections that you could come up to the word sustainable. So they're still producing ah cut an inherently carcinogenic problem.
00:51:15
Speaker
product that the World Health Organization is recognised as carcinogenic. So the sustainability of people's health has not changed. The sustainability in terms of environmentalism that's not changed. It's still got the same carbon footprint.
00:51:30
Speaker
Sustainability in terms of the pigs' lives, that's no different. that that their Their lives are still needlessly being taken away. So you're left thinking, well, what what's sustainable then?
00:51:40
Speaker
How are you changing that any of those? The farmers are being sustained. Exactly. That's what's happening. The farmers are being sustained. But what is even more insidious and frightening? But you've got to know your enemy. So I'm glad I know this, right?
00:51:54
Speaker
But at the moment, People who are producing little pigs who do not get to see the light of day, you know, in these factory farms and mega farms, they have historically missed out on government subsidies because they're not land based. They don't have a big land footprint because the money was per acreage, you know, I mean, of your farm.
00:52:18
Speaker
So one of the things this Tesco sustainable pig group are doing is they're going to sort that out. And actually they're putting a bit of more money into indoor pig farm things, factory farms and mega farms, so because they are saying that these are the kind of type of farming of the future and they're going to make these things environmentally friendly and all the rest of it.
00:52:44
Speaker
what a load of nonsense so that is really frightening and worrying and but the chance the opportunity that we have here because I don't like to always bring bad news and say well there's nothing we can do yes there are things we can do and obviously by our own avoidance of purchasing these products obviously we wouldn't buy them for ourselves but don't please buy them for other people You know, if you are in the unfortunate position that your partner is a carnist or whatever, that's unfortunate.
00:53:20
Speaker
But don't think that you're being a good partner or a nice, easygoing vegan by saying, oh, well, i you know I go out and buy the stuff. I don't like doing it, but I do. it Don't buy it. Don't fuel this industry. Please, please think of the animals.
00:53:35
Speaker
And tell the people that you know and that you love or that you're even in touch with in any way that are in your life, that if they think they're doing something virtuous by buying British, buying British pork, buying British beef, buying British lambs, then they are not.
00:53:58
Speaker
They really are not. Because that's the other thing about these sustainable groups that Tesco are setting up. They're increasing the number of farms that they're contracting with so that there's a much higher percentage of their goods are coming from British animals, animals in Britain, should say. so And people will jump on that as, a well, that's lower food miles.
00:54:20
Speaker
We've got wet better welfare standards when that's debatable. But the fact of the matter is, going back to our previous story, If Tesco are then going to meet the demand, and if these farms are going to meet Tesco's demands, what does that mean for the UK?
00:54:39
Speaker
We are, if we are going to bring in less, fewer animal products... we're going to have to step up production here. And how do you think that's going to happen?
00:54:50
Speaker
That's going to mean more mega farms. So, okay, they might not go to Shropshire, but they'll go somewhere else, you know. So, and there are plenty people out there, and I know this for a fact because I've been in their Facebook group.
00:55:05
Speaker
There are plenty people out there who hate the idea of a mega farm and do not want one in their neighbourhood, But they have not made that connection between those being in existence or being planned you know proposals and what they do in a restaurant and how they behave when they're shopping in a supermarket.
00:55:27
Speaker
But if we can help them make that connection, then we can... It doesn't matter how many grants Tesco offers or what groups they set up or whatever, there just will not be the demand because people won't want mega farms. But that's what we are voting for if we purchase British pork and beef and that that kind of stuff.
00:55:53
Speaker
So... Back to the Animal Justice Project. They are fantastic people. Again, I love them. This, as a piece of action in its own right, isn't going to do much. But look what it's caused me to uncover and to learn about.
00:56:08
Speaker
It will have done that for tons of other people as well, I think. So well done them, but please if you've got spare time, um have a look at their website and have a look at the actions that are available there that are made very easy.
00:56:23
Speaker
Really, really good organisation. So shout out to Animal Justice Project. I could not agree more with all what you've said. And I just wanted to add a little thing that it's that for those people that think, oh, but I'm eating British pigs or British, the scale of these factories means that these pigs are fed by overseas soy.
00:56:49
Speaker
So we're destroying rainforests. just to ship all this food to feed the pigs and chickens and all this. So even with the whitewashing of source locally, it's not true.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Hear, hear. Yeah, and we were we indeed reported on another proposed Shropshire chicken farm. ah They're popping up everywhere at the minute, or trying to anyway.
00:57:18
Speaker
um A couple of weeks ago, I think it was Paul's pick for the week, And um they were, just just to exemplify the the carbon footprint thing there, part of the way that they were trying to mitigate against the build-up of effluents and things like that was basically they were going to ship all of the shit like 40 miles down the road.
00:57:40
Speaker
So... Every however many days or whatever, there's there's lorries carrying carrying the poo. um So it's, you know, that it's not just where the farm is based relative to your home that that that makes a difference. It's all of the things that are part of that.
00:57:56
Speaker
But like you say, Julie, good on the good people at Animal Justice Project for sharing information. that and and getting that action done so that we can talk about it and so that many other people they've not done it so that we can talk about it so that lots of people can have the awareness raised for that just because we're talking about pigs and you asked the question earlier julie i did look it up it's 11 million pigs a year estimated um slaughtered in the in the uk um That stat came courtesy from our good friends at the ah RSPCA.
00:58:29
Speaker
There's an interesting one. But do you know what? It's 11 million, perhaps, that go through the door of a UK slaughterhouse. But how many die in the life that they live in factory farms?
00:58:43
Speaker
How you many are just picked up and thumped with their wee skull smashed on the floor? You know, I mean, how many actually are we killing? Because nobody's counting them. Very true. Very true. You know, in Spain, it's close to 50 million. Oh,
00:59:01
Speaker
this is a sad conversation. Important, though. Important. We need these numbers. We need these numbers because, you know, it helps our... ah Helps our advocacy, doesn't it? Well, you know what you can do as well in a tiny way?
00:59:12
Speaker
Because I do unwillingly in some ways, but I do buy some things from Tesco. I live in the country, you know what mean? So I do shop in Tesco, but I'm also um on that Tesco home panels thing.
00:59:27
Speaker
So every week or so I get sent a survey to complete about what I've been buying or what I would like to see them selling and everything like that. So you can imagine what my answers are. So...
00:59:42
Speaker
you know And I don't care that it's just me. I do not care because I want somebody else who's vegan to be on there and not care that they think it's just them and then somebody else and somebody else and somebody else.
00:59:55
Speaker
oh If we don't tell them, how are they going to know? Apart from through our you know shopping habits. But when they're talking about future things, which is what they often are,
01:00:07
Speaker
then I just absolutely don't mince my words. I'm very direct. I regularly offer that they can phone me personally. You know what I mean? Yeah, i'm I'm very available to them for comment, let's say. I remember a time as well when Richard was trying to destabilise Tesco by ah buying up all their bananas each Saturday. i i seem to remember that was a bit of direct action he would take.
01:00:34
Speaker
And we had kate Kate revealed on the show last week that she ah asked them to disinfect the yeah the conveyor belt every time that she's in the supermarket if there's been meat on it. So, you know, bit by bit, we're we're all destabilizing the supermarkets.
01:00:50
Speaker
We just need keep it up.
01:00:53
Speaker
Nice one. Right, well, thank you, Julie, for that one. That covers our picks for the week. That's what Julie and Richard think. But as you know, we love hearing questions. what you think listening out there we're just the we're just the voices on air but your voices behind the keyboard are just as valid so here is how to get in touch with us To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
01:01:22
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas what helps shape the show.
01:01:34
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Okay, just time for one quick last story. This one actually reached the news on the 10th of June, um but we we only got wind of it just as we were about to record last week's show.
01:01:54
Speaker
ah one of the Enough of the Falafel contributors, Carlos, put a message in our group saying, so is anyone going to fess up and say that they were the one behind this? This is the news that the horse racing's governing body has been hit by a cyber attack.
01:02:11
Speaker
My heart bleeds. Poor old British horse racing authority. They're the latest made, the BBC say, the latest major organisation to be targeted by a cyber attack.
01:02:22
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily say that the British Horse Racing Authority is ah is in the same league as the mark as so the co-op or Marks and Spencers. But anyway, that's the line they're going with. It's a ransomware incident. For those of you who are tech savvy and know what that means, I certainly do don't.
01:02:39
Speaker
But their London office is temporarily closed. Staff have been asked to work from home or remotely. And an investigation was launched trying to work out what's going on, what caused it and the impact of it.
01:02:55
Speaker
However, ah spokesperson for the British Horse Racing Authority has said, we've we've identified it, we've we're we're investigating it. And unfortunately, the delivery of race days has continued as normal.
01:03:09
Speaker
and will continue to do so. well Well, we'll see about that. Maybe it'll spread. Maybe it'll get worse. They've informed their colleagues, core industry stakeholders, and law enforcement.
01:03:20
Speaker
So what what do we think? is this it Can we take any positives from an animal rights, a vegan point of view here? Or has cyber attack not destabilized them at all? Maybe people are feeling sorry for them.
01:03:34
Speaker
Maybe it's raising awareness of horse racing, and someone's going... Oh yeah, I forgot the races were on. Maybe I'll go. what What do we think? I'm i'm going to be sceptical here and say it's got nothing to do with the racing industry or anything to do with horses or animal rights in any way.
01:03:53
Speaker
But some people out there have obviously come up with this concept of ransomware where they, and I'm not very IT literate so I'm going to have to explain it in in the worst terms possible, simplest ever, but...
01:04:07
Speaker
It's like one of those little bugs that goes into the system and removes the data and holds it ransom and the person cannot get their data back until they've paid up.
01:04:18
Speaker
So, you know, I mean, it is just a money making thing and it's completely random that it's the horse racing society or whoever they are. Because, it I mean, like you say, it was a co-op and it was M&S. Just anybody who's got people with a bit of cash at the helm of them. Shame it wasn't Kranswick, though. Something like that.
01:04:40
Speaker
And it's a shame that for some reason or another, it didn't stop their stupid little horse races going on and all, you know...
01:04:52
Speaker
So they say they always like to put a nice face on this. You know, it's like, oh, it didn't bother us. You know, we had no air fallout from this. It's not a problem, you know. Good photo, though, alongside the article.
01:05:05
Speaker
Yes, yes. You know, whoever wrote that article isn't a fan of horse racing, I don't think. It's not a flattering picture. at all whoever said that people who mount horses are assholes yeah exactly follow the link in the show notes you'll see what we're not that i advocate violence in any form but it did remind me of that you know that saying the sights you see when you haven't got a gun you know it's just yeah these horrible little for people who haven't seen it horrid little jockey backsides from the back in the air just looking utterly ridiculous
01:05:43
Speaker
So, yeah, I don't think it's got anything to do with a protest against horse racing. But if it helps anybody out there who is an animal rights activist, who has got some ransomware skills, I wonder, um maybe star I don't have any IT skills whatsoever, but um if there's a course in ransomware creation. Well, I mean, I was going to ask Richard, like, I mean, we have to be careful what we're,
01:06:13
Speaker
ah advocating for. But I mean, there have been folk who have gone out sabbing hunts many decades ago when hunting was legal. And that's, you know, that's had an impact. I wonder if there might be animal rights activists out there with certain skills who might see something like this that doesn't seem to have had an impact and and perhaps cyber attacks might be a form of direct action that we see in the future?
01:06:42
Speaker
What do you think? Well, I think two things here. Probably statistically, as there's more vegans in the population, surely there's someone with these kind of skills. So I wouldn't be surprised if, you know,
01:06:55
Speaker
someone has the capability of doing this second i might be a bit ignorant but done somewhere for what what kind of data can they need i mean it's it's that's one of the things that i was like what kind of database they have that they need to stick to it i mean i would say that i'm a strong believer i'm a very optimistic Very, very optimistic that this is a dying cultural thing.
01:07:23
Speaker
Entertainment form. Yes. So maybe they've lost the names of the few people that still remain. don't know. um Yeah, maybe it's just ah it's a test pilot.
01:07:35
Speaker
They're testing the grounds just to do something bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i'm I'm sure you're right there. Unless it was, like Julie says, completely random. I um heard an advert for horse racing. It came up and but in the middle of a podcast I was listening to a few days ago.
01:07:51
Speaker
And what was really interesting was there was no mention of the horses. They were talking, but it was like a fictional group of women who'd gone out for the day, they'd had a day at the races, and all the things they were referring to were the frills, the, oh, we you know we had some nice drinks, we went on the dance floor, and yes, there was betting.
01:08:12
Speaker
It was like, oh, so-and-so picked the winner. or whatever, but I thought, well, you could pick the winner an athletics event, or, you know, and and obviously we've spoken on the podcast before, you know, there are virtual horse horse races where you can, it's computer generated or whatever, but even the horse racing industry is not advertising the horsey bit it's everything else that is appealing to people it just takes a little shift in consciousness for people to realize that as well as people calling out the cruelty of course and direct action and uh who knows maybe a few more cyber attacks that's that's all it needs but there we go right that covers and rounds up the last of our stories this week but i can hear kate's voice approaching and some rather funky music let's hear what she's got to say
01:09:03
Speaker
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Speaker
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01:09:39
Speaker
Thank you everybody for listening. If you'd like to join us again, the next Enough of the Falafel episode, it's a vegan talk episode and it's available from Thursday the 26th of June and it's featuring Anthony and Carlos and they are going to be discussing is there even such a thing as the vegan movement?
01:10:09
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks Anthony and Julie for your contributions. Thank again everyone for listening. I've been Richard and you've been listening to Vegan Week from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
01:10:27
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster.
01:10:37
Speaker
We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
01:11:08
Speaker
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01:11:29
Speaker
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01:11:43
Speaker
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