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190- Should vegans donate a proportion of their income to charity?
96 Plays16 days ago
Sikhs, Muslims and Christians may engage in Dasvandah, Zakat and Tithing respectively; so what's stopping vegans from making regular donations to charity part of their way of life? In this episode Julie, Richard & Anthony discuss their own stance on this, as well as general principles of giving to 'worthy causes'
As ever, we love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Richard, Julie & Anthony
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Transcript
Introduction to Vegan Talk
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone. Right now, get your bank account details and security questions ready. It is time for the vegan pyramid scheme. I'm Anthony and for this episode I'm also joined by Richard and by Julie.
00:00:15
Speaker
I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrrr! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
Misconceptions about Veganism
00:00:27
Speaker
What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:34
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick phone.
00:00:42
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:57
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and Hello everyone, I'm Richard.
Vegan Talk vs. Vegan Week
00:01:04
Speaker
Welcome to this episode of Vegan Talk and thank you for being here. Hi everybody, it's Julie here. Welcome to Vegan Talk.
00:01:14
Speaker
This is different from Vegan Week, which is our news episode. This is one where we have a bit of an in-depth chat about a particular vegan or animal rights issue and we've done a load of these in the past so if you have a wee look wherever you get your podcast you'll see lots and lots of episodes that we've already done on lots of different
Veganism and Philanthropy
00:01:38
Speaker
topics.
00:01:38
Speaker
Indeed, indeed, which is making us find even more spurious things to talk about, because today we're talking about veganism and philanthropy. Now, for those of you that sort of know about the vegan society's definition of veganism or or whatever your own.
00:01:55
Speaker
definition of veganism might be, it generally refers to what you're consuming, what you're using, what you're doing, your actions in terms of avoiding animal use. But, ah or rather I should say and, as well as that, very often people's like to support vegan businesses.
00:02:14
Speaker
For example, Richard was on the show a couple of months ago and we were talking about ways that you could invest your money into more or less ethical pensions or investment funds and things like that. So one's vegan ethics can lead to other actions related to that.
00:02:33
Speaker
Others may decide to donate money as well or instead of those things. And actually, if we look at other ways of life, whether you're a religious a person or you're from a background or a culture where religion affects these things, if you're a Sikh or a Muslim or possibly even a Christian or or other beliefs too, there might be parts of your religion or cultural practice that mandates or or makes it a norm that you would donate
Religious Practices and Veganism
00:03:05
Speaker
things. So i'm I'm gonna get my pronunciations wrong here, but the the practice of dashvanda is as a Sikh practice where you donate 10% of your earnings to to charity or worthy causes.
00:03:20
Speaker
um Again, in Islam, zakat is one of the five pillars of Islam um where Muslims are obliged, so my research said, to donate 2.5% of their qualifying wealth.
00:03:31
Speaker
And even in the Old Testament, Tithing is a practice of giving 10% of one's income as a practice for God's people. Again, so my research tells me, though I can't say I've got much authority on these things myself.
00:03:46
Speaker
So thought it'd be interesting to have a chat about what Richard and Julian are weighing to, what our feelings are on um just donating, not necessarily investing or anything like that, just giving one's money.
Debate on Monetary Donations and Veganism
00:04:00
Speaker
to particular causes and we can talk about the issue in more general terms too. Richard are you happy to get the ball rolling here? What what are your thoughts on this like we've we've mentioned on the show that we have both invested our money in businesses before that we have started but but this is slightly different isn't it just i'm saying just donating i suppose i'm saying that because in a sense it's quite a passive process you you send the money and then that's it isn't it yes i guess in this case we're talking about money only donating money we're not talking about you know could be other things like donating time or donating um
00:04:36
Speaker
um If we talk about money, yes, it seems a more hands-off approach than just starting a business, maybe. But I think the key thing, and I'll talk for me, is you would give money to so many different causes.
00:04:52
Speaker
so many great people that are capable of doing amazing things that obviously you can't give money to everyone. um It's just a mathematical problem, you know.
00:05:04
Speaker
it's It's hard sometimes to know, is it to save animals? Is it to move the needle towards veganism? And I really struggle with that because you want to give to an animal sanctuary because you want to to rescue the the survivors of the meat trade.
00:05:20
Speaker
But on the other hand, You think, I want to give money to make ah change. and An example is all these campaigns that might try to persuade people to to become vegan. And you think, well, if more people become vegan, obviously there's less need to rescue animals.
00:05:40
Speaker
A bit debatable, because obviously there's billions, okay? But what I mean is there'll be less and less need to breed animals for consumption. So it's...
00:05:51
Speaker
It's hard. I think it's a
Personal Journey with Donations
00:05:53
Speaker
beautiful practice to give a percentage of your disposable income to these causes because at the end of the day, you think, should I get this, you name it, consumer product that will give me joy for 10 minutes or one hour versus the meaningful impact or long-lasting impact that that money can give to a cause you believe in?
00:06:19
Speaker
so I'm a ah big believer in in that yes and in in terms of picking and choosing I I hear what you're saying completely and it's a goodness it's an agonizing thing I was thinking even Elon Musk has to pick and choose doesn't he where he's spending his dreadful dreadful money insidious man uh in my opinion but but actually like we we've covered in ah an earlier show of ah ah few weeks ago like the great work done by animal aid and the Humane League and all these organizations and you think well actually if there's a
00:06:51
Speaker
There's a million vegans in the country. Like it wouldn't take much. We wouldn't have to pay much to to pay for a couple of core members of staff and see see what the, you know, the great work that that that can enable with obviously the volunteers that that work for for no fee there.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yes. Interesting stuff. Julie, what's what's your perspective on this? Have you got, you know, standing orders already um or or how how does this feature in your life?
00:07:19
Speaker
Well, it featured in my life from a very early age. So very kind of challenging circumstances in my young years and teenage years and in particular led me to have to kind of seek my own healing so think about the age of 17 or something I read you can heal your life and the power is within you by Louise Hay who you might have heard of just a kind of self-help lady she's passed away now but that was where I first learned about the whole um concept of tithing because she was into that
00:08:00
Speaker
And she said that was a great way to live. And 10% was the figure she used. And, you know, she had all kinds of practices about abundance and about, you know, signing every on the back of every cheque, you know, with thanks and thanking the people who send you bills because they obviously believe you can pay them all of that.
00:08:20
Speaker
So for some reason that really has stuck with me. So and I qualified as a massage therapist 29 years ago. And because I have been lucky enough to sort of be in either full time education, you know, when I was doing my degrees and things or.
00:08:38
Speaker
full-time work it's never been you know that I've had to support myself as a self-employed person it's always been an add-on so every massage I have delivered has hopefully brought benefit to the recipient but I've also given the money that I've charged you know the a little amount of donation that you know and given that to causes that are animal related and I sort of get round the what do you do do you focus on animal rights as a whole and animal aid for example you know an all-encompassing campaigning organization or do you
00:09:13
Speaker
give it to an individual sanctuary that you might know that are just down the road or whatever. And I just have, it's almost like being an investor, you know, I've got a portfolio, it's a complete mixture of those things.
00:09:24
Speaker
So that's the first thing that has been my practice for 29 years. And the other thing was or is that when
Ethical Dilemmas in Donations
00:09:32
Speaker
would it be? i think 2007, I first joined a running club. I'd done a little bit of running prior to that, but I joined a club in 2007 and seven and i you know, was placed in a race for the first time in 2007 and started to benefit from you know, either cash prizes that were given or vouchers for a certain amount of money.
00:09:56
Speaker
So I would donate the equivalent. So I didn't keep my prize money ever. Or if I gained a prize that had benefit that could be raffled, you know, like yeah I would give the item to a charity, an animal based charity to raffle. So if I may go on, there was an incident recently where I had entered a race and Only after I'd paid my entry money, I discovered that not only was there an opportunity to donate to charity that was about human medical research, a brain tumour research, but in fact, because I hadn't ticked the box of donating, you know what mean, and giving extra, but actually the organiser said, you know what, we're going to donate all our profits to St.
00:10:45
Speaker
you know So that would have made me sort of implicit in supporting a charity that I checked, you know, supports animal testing. So I wrote to the race organiser and I said, oh, you know, I won't be doing your race, but thank you.
00:11:00
Speaker
You know, I didn't go into in too much detail, but I just said, you know, because, you know, research involving animals, etc., So that was that. And I felt a bit sort of a bit uncomfortable in some ways that people might think, oh, you know, Julie is a bad person who doesn't, who wants people to have brain tumors and not to get to the bottom of how they have not to get treatment and all the rest of it.
00:11:24
Speaker
So lo and behold, a race was coming up that a had some prize money. And when I'd done one of the races there's a a series of races but I'd won a shorter version of this race last year and given the money to um animal charities you know split it and so this year I'd entered a longer version longer recently 10k we're not talking big races here so I said to myself you know there isn't very much an outside chance because this is a higher standard of right participant
00:11:59
Speaker
but were I to be lucky enough to win the the money in this race then I will give it to animal free research and lo and behold the joyful sort of event was that I did you know i wasn't overall winner I was first lady though so I did win you know a sum of money and I was able to donate it to Animal Free Research UK, who I love.
00:12:27
Speaker
But not only that, i'm not hoping I'm hoping I don't come across as somebody bragging about their running ability, because I don't think I'm that great a runner, to be honest. i really honest The facts speak for themselves. It's not a brag. Well, no, they're small local races. They're not far.
00:12:42
Speaker
They do not depend on speed because I'm not a fast runner, but I'm a very strong runner. So this was really rough countryside and climbing over walls and things. And I can do that.
00:12:52
Speaker
So it it was more about that than actual running. It was very rough. I was able to say on social media, that you can be someone who's, you know, I don't want folk to have brain tumours and I want folk to know how to prevent these things happening and I want families who are affected by these things to have support and the people obviously who have these things to have support. I want all of that but not at the expense of animals' lives.
Debt and Donations
00:13:20
Speaker
So I was really pleased to donate to that charity and I was really pleased to have a chance to support progress and good science because I don't believe that there is good science with animal but experimentation and I've had conversations with a number of people who've read my post now who said I didn't know that I didn't think about that And it's changing the way they think about stuff. And they didn't know about animal-free research. So instead of just coming across as being some grumpy vegan who misses out on races, that's not a good advert for animal rights or veganism.
00:14:00
Speaker
i can be someone who... supports medical research, you know, in a positive way and, you know, and and is that a happy person doing it.
00:14:12
Speaker
So, yeah, it's been a win-win. I'm really pleased about it. But I'm i'm never going to stop as long as I can... get some extra money somewhere for some reason from doing bits of work running races or whatever it's going to the animals and a um i cannot be any more happy about it it's amazing i love it no that's great thank thank you for that julie i've been reflecting whilst you guys have been sharing your experiences thinking, well, what, what has my policy been on this? and And actually it's, it's very much varied ah across my adult life as to, you know, times when I've had lots of different direct debits going out to lots of different charities.
00:14:55
Speaker
And then other times so where there, there haven't been, i think when, when I was running a restaurant, we were able to do things like putting an item on the menu and charging a pound extra for it and saying, Oh,
00:15:07
Speaker
that you know that that there's an extra pound on this item and that's going towards this animal sanctuary or what have you. And that was a really effective way of of raising hundreds and hundreds and so hundreds of pounds really quite quickly, which was fabulous.
00:15:22
Speaker
Interestingly as well, i I very happily pay the 20 pounds or whatever it is that we pay to Zencastr at the moment to to host this show. And I see that, I mean, Zencastr are very much not an animal rights organization, but...
00:15:37
Speaker
like i i I quite like that there's a thing that I'm kind of like, right, well, that I'm um contributing to this show being out there and and that that's doing good for animals, I hope, in one way or another. I'm wondering, I'll come to you first with this one, Richard, when we refer to um religions or groups of people that culturally that there's this almost inbuilt expectation that you're donating it's my anecdotal experience that a lot of fundraising is done through that i you know i've i've known quite a few ah british sikhs who who it just seems to be that there's just there's just fundraising and donations going on all the time
00:16:21
Speaker
what What do you think to the idea of the definition of veganism, including something like that, that you're maybe it doesn't have to be as specific as thou shalt donate 10 percent of thine income to ah suitable charitable causes or whatever.
00:16:41
Speaker
But it's just like, actually, you you give within your means. And that's that's part of what we do with maybe, I don't know, the caveat that don't
Charitable Giving in Veganism
00:16:50
Speaker
starve. but there's an expectation you give what you can or does that just not work for what we've discussed on the show before is is an anarchic movement we' we're a decentralized movement there isn't a figurehead telling us what to do what what do you think to that idea I see it as quite complex and I'll try to explain what I mean but in a way ah religion is a set of beliefs by which you live your life and
00:17:16
Speaker
It's, how can I say this, it's a bit like written how you should behave in a certain way. While veganism, I think people get to veganism in different ways and it's not the same for me that it might be for you what a vegan is.
00:17:37
Speaker
So I think probably the way I would phrase it is ah thou shall contribute in one way or another to make a positive change in the world and fill in the blank.
00:17:49
Speaker
And fill in the blank might be money. You might be a successful entrepreneur, business owner, and you might not have time because you spend all your time running your businesses, but you That gives you the means to make an impact in economic terms to support veganism. While you might not have a lot of disposable income to donate, and you might be thinking five pounds do not make a difference, it does.
00:18:19
Speaker
But you might be thinking it does not make a difference, but you can contribute in other ways, going to animal ride marches. You can go to donate time with rescued animals. do There's so many things you can do nowadays just to raise awareness. So I think it's very difficult, especially with the cost of living nowadays, to say I'm going to give a percentage of my income to good causes.
00:18:42
Speaker
I'm saying it's difficult. i'm not saying we shouldn't do it. That would be my view. I don't know ah very well um and anymore anybody who is from a Sikh or a Muslim ah background, but I reckon the message of give two and a half percent of your income or 10 percent of your income, I don't reckon that's changed during the cost of living crisis.
00:19:07
Speaker
I reckon they just stick for it. And I'm i'm wondering whether You just get used to giving ah certain amount. And so you you never have that. your rank Your income is is always 95%.
00:19:18
Speaker
never receive 100% it. Okay. okay Can I flip the situation? Always. Most people have consumer debt. Now, if you think about what debt is, is you've purchased a good or service that you don't have the money to purchase in full or you wish to not pay in full at the time.
00:19:37
Speaker
And therefore, you get credit, which you have to return with an interest. By doing this, you paying a lender more money than you have, and probably the interest you're paying doesn't go for a good cause.
00:19:51
Speaker
I think we can agree that chances are that the interest that goes to Klarna, the interest that goes to you name it, will be invested in non-vegan terms.
00:20:03
Speaker
So a way of thinking of it, maybe you can't though you cannot donate. Maybe it's not about donating 10%, just get out of debt, and the surplus that you'll make is not going to a causes that you don't believe in. You'll have more disposable income, and maybe you can use certain part of the interest that you are going to pay anyway to give to animal charities.
00:20:23
Speaker
I want to see the Vegan Society's new social media posts that's just hashtag get out of debt. I think you could be onto something there, Richard. what what what What do you think, Julie? You help yourself and you help animals. It's a win-win. Well, what do I think?
00:20:40
Speaker
I think I'm not exactly flipping it. I'm coming from a different angle. I'm not... of a mind that veganism really should be we should be sort of obliged to donate a certain percentage of our income necessarily but I do have some kind of feeling that veganism does demand of us that we do something more than just a sort of relatively passive, we don't purchase these items, we don't consume animal abuse products or whatever.
Active Advocacy in Veganism
00:21:19
Speaker
I think it certainly demands of me that I speak up against animal abuse and that I speak up for animals at every opportunity And not just at every opportunity, but I make that opportunity. I try and do something every day of my life, some way another, find a way, even if it's just answering a post on Facebook or, you know, writing an email to a company about something they're producing or something.
00:21:46
Speaker
But I'm so appalled and so upset by animal use and abuse that I don't want a day of my life to go by, that I don't speak up. against it so I think that's what veganism makes me want to do as well as you know obviously when I have money that I wasn't planning on having if you see what I mean that definitely I don't hold on to you know at that that is given a away and I will say
00:22:18
Speaker
For my other bit as well, linking to Richard's point, I am somebody who has never earned a high income. You know, I've worked in care and I've worked as a nurse. That was probably when I was the best paid.
00:22:31
Speaker
And I've worked in the charity sector all of my career and I've never had a high income. But I've also never bought anything on credit and had to pay interest on it, apart from in the days when I had mortgage. don't have a mortgage now. I've got a tiny house though, but I live within my means.
00:22:48
Speaker
You know, and I'm not a Scrooge at all. And I think I live really well and I'm really happy with my house and comfortable, but I can do it without spending tons of money. But, you know, there are just some things that I don't do. I don't go on holiday.
00:23:03
Speaker
things like that that normal folk do and I don't go to cafes or drink alcohol or you there's just things that I just you know they're not my radar they're not accessible to me I live in the country a very simple life but I'm very happy and I think healthy but um yeah it's amazing what you can how far you can make your money go if you don't get kind of drawn in into I've got to have a massive big television set and the latest phone or whatever.
00:23:31
Speaker
So that's how I do it. And yes, think it isn't always about charitable. know that the question is about charitable donations, but they're part of it.
00:23:42
Speaker
The whole just speaking up for animals. There's other ways you can give your time, energy, attention, anything you know than just money it's all helpful i'm really glad that you you've mentioned that point of sort of using money that you didn't expect to have because it it put me in mind of there was a campaign it was goodness i reckon it was about 15 years ago and it was it was footballers raising money for nurses at the time and the idea was that you they would donate a day's pay
00:24:16
Speaker
towards nurses but what it inspired was several organizations that I knew of did a thing where they encouraged folk to either do that or to take like an overtime shift if if you had the facility to do something like that so it's kind of extra money that you hadn't factored in and you were effectively working a day for that organization So you could say, well, you know, you you don't have to donate any money that you've already got coming in, but take on an overtime shift and you're effectively working a day for animal aid or yeah animal free research or
Creative Fundraising Ideas
00:24:53
Speaker
whatever.
00:24:53
Speaker
i and consent it It's a really great way of of donating in a sense, way more than you normally would, because for for most people, like ah a day's work is like a reasonable chunk of money even if you're working at the the living wage like it's that's still a sizable donation um of course you do need to you can't be completely time skint you do need to be able to give that day but i of all the like like you julie i've generally either worked in the public sector or or or in charity and based stuff and and actually you see lots of different ways of fundraising actually and and that's the one that really stands out for me it's a really nice concept
00:25:35
Speaker
And that's a shift in a day at work that you'll enjoy more than anyone you've ever done, probably, because you've got a big why behind it that isn't just about you. you know i mean? So, yeah, I think that's a lovely idea. and I did it and i I spent that day a lot of it. I was telling people what I was doing as well.
00:25:57
Speaker
So it it wasn't just the financial activism. it was talking about um the organisation that I was raising money for at the time. So it's a good little double whammy.
00:26:07
Speaker
I was just going to say, make sure of the listener don't get a part-time job at KFC just to give the service to the animals. I mean, there's that's ways of getting, you know, the extra shifts in great vegan cafes, in great, you know, places where you can have a double ba impact, just as that.
00:26:27
Speaker
and Unless you want to, I mean, you could jam the yeah the drive-through linking back to our news show a few weeks ago, you know, if you... could do a shift at KFC and set a sabotage their infrastructure.
00:26:43
Speaker
Indeed. Well, we you we've deliberately kept this as a relatively short conversation because we just wanted to get the ball rolling on this topic.
Listener Engagement and Feedback
00:26:52
Speaker
We are very interested in what you guys out there got to say too. We're going to give you our email address in a moment. If you haven't heard it before,
00:26:59
Speaker
But in the meantime, here's Kate asking you a tiny little favour. We're not asking you for money, though. It's a different kind of favour. If you've enjoyed today's show, we'd love it if you could take just a few seconds to share it with someone else who you think might enjoy it too.
00:27:16
Speaker
We don't have a marketing team or a budget to spend on advertising, so your referrals are the best way of spreading the free Enough of the Falafel Joy further still. And if you haven't already, we'd be really grateful if you could leave us a rating on your podcast player.
00:27:32
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
00:27:45
Speaker
Lovely stuff, lovely stuff. Well, thank you very much, Julie. And thank you very much, Richard. A really enjoyable conversation, as it always is with the both of you. Listeners, we love hearing from you too.
00:27:57
Speaker
Enough of the falafel at gmail.com is how to get hold of us. If you've got a complaint, an observation, a get rich quick scheme or anything else you think we would like to know about.
Conclusion and Credits
00:28:08
Speaker
If you'd like to join us again, the next Enough of the Falafel episode is available from Monday. It's going to be a Vegan Week episode and that's our usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:28:25
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks, Julie and Anthony, for all your contributions. It's been a great episode. Thanks to everyone for listening.
00:28:36
Speaker
I've been Richard. You've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective. Thank you for helping us start the podcast, Richard. This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there.
00:28:53
Speaker
The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com. And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry.
00:29:06
Speaker
Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:29:26
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries and, of course, around a dozen news items from around the world week.
00:29:51
Speaker
week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from