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188- Going Vegan: "Veganism in Africa is very different to veganism in Europe"
105 Plays23 days ago
Join us for a surprise summer episode of the Going Vegan show where we hold conversations with people about their vegan journeys: The first signs that veganism might be an option for individuals, making the switch, the challenges, the surprises...and everything in between!
In this episode we speak to Freedom who gives us an insight into a vegan journey that begins in Namibia and has led him to work hard to "spread the word" of animal rights to others in his environment.
If you enjoy this episode, check your feed for the many other Going Vegan episodes that have been dropping throughout the last year & a bit.
If you'd like to hear more of what we do, set up all your notifications, as we release two other weekly shows: Vegan Week- where we discuss the week's vegan/animal rights news- and Vegan Talk- where we go deeper into one subject in particular that is relevant to the vegan movement.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
To get in touch, email us via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
Enough of the Falafel is also on Facebook, Tiktok & Instagram @enoughofthefalafel.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Freedom & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, my name is Freedom. I are listening to The Go Vegan Show. So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for.
00:00:11
Speaker
Protein. Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:25
Speaker
Hang on a minute, you always pick them.
00:00:33
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:48
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of the Going Vegan show. Now if you're a regular listener to the show, you will know that we tend to have quite a few of these conversations around about January, because that's a time when a lot of folk are starting to think about veganism or to to try out.
00:01:10
Speaker
But we do love to feature an episode wherever we can throughout the year. um So I'm delighted that we're joined today by Freedom. We don't really know each other at all, really, do we? We've we've chatted a little bit before, but but not much. So I'm going to be learning stuff at the same time as listeners, which I always think is an exciting way to do it. So we'll start off the show as we always do with these.
Inspiration and Early Activism
00:01:35
Speaker
And if you could tell us, Freedom, like what's the earliest that you can track back in your life to a time where there was a little bit of a hint or a little bit of a clue that later on in your life you would have a concern for animals or veganism could be something that you have an interest in. Like how far back can you trace it?
00:01:57
Speaker
I could trace it back to back when I was a kid. I usually hated... because there was a nearby slaughterhouse so where we lived. So each time passed there, I felt really bitter and sad towards the things I saw there. So and as a kid, I couldn't take actions then.
00:02:18
Speaker
And um I do remember when I pointed to my mom that, hey, on this cell crow that i I really feel bad against that. But although back then she tried to shun me as a kid and along the line ah do see where, you know, cattle, you know, they were like being beaten before they were kind of slaughtered.
00:02:43
Speaker
So all those were horrific to me, although to people who considered it normal, I myself, I was ah experiencing it from a different perspective that, hey, this was so horrible and cruel.
00:02:57
Speaker
So um then um before in my early teens, I started um researching more about um how possible is this? Because back then I never considered it to be something that would be possible, a kind of movement against all these um horrible acts.
00:03:14
Speaker
so i Started researching and I started seeing that it was possible, you know, mainly in in European countries that animals also have rights to, that um they also consider as living things that need the same love and care as other living things.
00:03:33
Speaker
That was my really, I call it a a revelation moment to me because that was a ah moment of liberation to me. So I was really happy the day I made that discovery.
00:03:45
Speaker
Then I started um taking more actions by, I first started sending out emails to some NGOs, you know, but mostly mainly they were Europeans that were in ways through which I could um help and assist them. So, that has been my journey. Wow, goodness me. I mean, if we can go back to this the start of that, like walking past a slaughterhouse, I mean, for many people, like they're hidden, they're out of sight. Like that that that must have been a really striking thing.
00:04:14
Speaker
bold experience do you do do you know like ah other people in your life like how did they respond to to walking past that too like you were saying you were a child when that happened like did you have friends who also experienced this my one of my childhood friends uh uh she now lives in finland you know she had the same views as i did so um she also encouraged me because when she now moved to finland um she was saying Hey, all these are so real.
Engaging with Global Vegan Communities
00:04:44
Speaker
I mean, the actions towards the animal rights, you know, that in Europe is so strong, you know, that it's so real.
00:04:53
Speaker
That also encouraged me. Although back, other people consider the slaughterhouses as being um normal, you know, that um animals are meant to be eating, animals are meant to be used as the sub-burden, know, and all that stuff.
00:05:11
Speaker
So it was really horrible to me as well. Yeah, goodness. And then you you mentioned researching and finding a lot of, let's call it Eurocentric, European-centric information in in in terms of, you know, ah animal rights and and progress that that is out there. Can you remember like specific organizations or like where you were where you were finding the information out for? it's It's interesting to know kind of what stood out to you. I first started with Happy Cow. visited Happy Cow and I was seeing a lot of organizations and also more details and recipes about vegan food because I myself was done with eating anything that has to do with a meat you know and was not plant-based.
00:05:59
Speaker
So um i came across organizations that, um like one, the Scrap disccar Factory Farming UK, So I do know some people who who volunteer with the organization as well. So I was um involved with them as well.
00:06:16
Speaker
So um there were some groups I found um on Facebook, like one, the Doll Vegan group that um details all about um vegan activism and vegan recipes. yeah There's also one vegan travel group.
00:06:33
Speaker
And these are where i I usually get to experience the community, you know, the vegan community in general. So the Travel Vegan group was more of a detailing info on to vegans who wanted to travel, you know, and where they could access vegan options in whatever cities they visited.
00:06:55
Speaker
So as well, I found I was able to write some vegan brands although I've not yet finalized them like there's one I'm working with now but it's a kind of a vegan school but The aims and goals at the moment are to teach people about vegan lifestyle and also about um vegan recipes. So this has been my journey so far.
00:07:23
Speaker
Wow, that's that's amazing. Can I ask, Freedom, where where were you living in your teens and and and finding all this information out? I've lived in... Namibia, but I was assessing all my details remotely because I work remotely. So back then I felt the urge that, hey, you need to research more, you need to find more details about all and everything. Yeah, absolutely.
Activism Through Design and Media
00:07:45
Speaker
so So when you're finding this information out, like having the information is one thing, But then how you choose to act on it is another thing. Can you tell us a little bit about how your actions followed that information? Because I mean, some some people will find this information out and it will sit there in their mind, but they might not act on it for months, years even.
00:08:09
Speaker
um how How did that happen for you? The way I reacted to all the information was that it triggered me to, you know, it moved me to take more action by first sending out emails.
00:08:21
Speaker
I started looking for vegan organizations, you know, started looking for them, you know, I started looking for how to involve myself with vegan communities and I started researching a whole lot of vegan brands, you know, everything that has to do with veganism.
00:08:38
Speaker
Vegan activities, I started sending out mails to some vegan activists to connect with them and then understand their goals and see how I could, ah for instance, you know use um graphics design to share the word and share the message. you know because For example, the Sqab Factory organization, they held procession last, I think, in March.
00:09:12
Speaker
kind of use the theme of, you know, factory farming this weekend, you know, that was a theme of the event. So graphic design, you could use graphic design to share the word about it. Like, for instance, now, ah another vegan activist I had worked with, i helped her design a t-shirt, you know, I helped her design a t-shirt to mirror her message, you know,
00:09:36
Speaker
the message ah about what was on the t-shirt was vegan words matter, you know, vegan words matter. So, and we're still working on more concepts, t-shirts concepts that she's going to use in, because last week, yeah, she had a kind of retreat and then in that retreat, she was with students because she also teaches, you know, so they had um visited a southern region in Germany. So,
00:10:05
Speaker
where they got involved in testing different vgan vegan recipes. So right at the moment, we are working on the concept whereby, you know, in each of those um retreats, you know, those sheets t-shirts will be worn, you know, to share the message. And I think she should ah be attending a but kind of podcast like this one. not That one is going to be featured in a magazine. So that's where she's going to show the one, the T-shirt, you know, so it can be seen and the message also shared. what I'm saying is that although I'm not physically present in the zones where I should, you know, be involved in the campaigns, but I could use um technology by way of graphic design, helping vegan organizations, volunteering, and, um,
00:10:57
Speaker
Also writing, and designing um all concepts that um would um help the vegan organizations that I find design their magazines because through the digital magazines, people get to read more.
00:11:11
Speaker
about because had it been there were no digital forms of knowledge um written by other vegan activists you know I wouldn't have been able to see more details on how non-vegan lifestyle is even affecting the world negatively you know climate change and all that.
Personal Experiences and Health Benefits
00:11:27
Speaker
That's fantastic and like you say like the the power of technology to to bring people together and to share important messages is great and and and that that can join people together from very far far away i'm what i'm wondering is if you have experienced any ah reactions from from people in in your life or people that you you know come across it with regards to work in that no matter where we are in the world whether it's
00:11:56
Speaker
You know, Namibia or the UK or the USA or um even I don't know, like a lot of people will think of India, for example, as a very um animal friendly country. There's lots of people who are vegetarian, but but nowhere in the world is a is a vegan country is a completely vegetarian.
00:12:14
Speaker
vegan community and so sometimes the responses of of the majority of people who aren't vegan the responses of people um when someone else is saying oh actually i am interested in this i do want to do some work towards helping this cause i want to be vegan myself or whatever it is the response can be quite strong in the negative um but not always and i just wondered if is that anything you've experienced I think, you know, when you begin, when I began posting things that has to do veganism, you know, friends from the neighborhood, although some who had um visited um countries, for instance, UK, you know, they kind of share the same view that I have because the first thing that hits you when you get to UK is that there are animal rights. Animal rights is, this you know, um organizations like PETA, you know, PETA, yeah,
00:13:09
Speaker
Although some would now try to share a negative view of as expression that why are you posting things that has to do with them protection of animals, you know, like after all they deserve to be eaten, you know, as meat. So, and I will maintain my stance that This is not how it's supposed to be, you know, that they also deserve love and care. that um ah And at that moment in time, I'm already armed with my information and data on how even eating meat-based foods are going to impact their health, you know, how meat-based lifestyle is also destroying the environment, you know, and the overall view of how horrible it is.
00:13:59
Speaker
So I am usually armed to the teeth in defending my own views at that moment in time. Yeah, and it's a useful thing to be able to do for sure, isn't it? You you mentioned that and eating meat and not eating meat.
00:14:12
Speaker
I'm wondering, have you experienced any any differences through through choosing not to eat meat? I mean, I don't know. Personally, if I'm completely honest, I mean, the first thing to say is I can't really remember what it was but it wass like to to eat meat or or eat dairy or eggs anymore because it's been a ah little while for me. But I can't actually remember feeling a physical difference. i I can remember feeling better about myself mentally and being pleased that my actions are aligning up with something that I believe in. But physically, I didn't notice the difference, but I know a lot of people did. fit For you personally, like, have you have you found any difference through through not eating meat, for just to take that as an example?
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah, um because I do work out sometimes, so I notice the difference, you know, the rate at which um my metabolism changes. And then again, I wasn't feeling sick as usual, you know, because back then,
00:15:11
Speaker
meat-based before I became vegan. I was kind of um feeling sick at times, you know, you know, that kind of not said that I do feel in the mornings, you know, but um as my progression into vegan, you know, meals go deeper and deeper, all those vanish. And again, my metabolism, yeah, it's been positive for me, most especially with my metabolism and then my feet this Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? I mean, obviously, we're all individuals. So these things will affect us in different ways. I'm i'm i'm really enjoying hearing some of the the differences in in your journey, but also can considering, you know, culturally, there will be lots of differences between what you're experiencing, Freedom, and what many of our listeners, a lot of whom are based in Europe or the USA, for example, um actually, there's still so many similarities there.
00:16:07
Speaker
i'm I'm wondering, in terms of managing being vegan day to day, what what things help you do that? Do you have any practical tips? Or is it all about retaining and and remembering why you're doing it? Like what what helps you to be vegan every day? Because it's, you know, it can be tricky.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, because mine was not because I was told, you know, mine was um automatic and interior feeling that, hey, this is horrible. I was feeling, you know, from the very moment as a kid, you know, I was was There was that in inner urge to, you know, stop eating meat because I considered all that horrible.
00:16:49
Speaker
Now imagine a scene from walking past the slaughterhouses and then feeling deep, in-depth, you know, a kind of angst, you know, against such acts.
00:17:00
Speaker
So, and then all that item um moved me to actually looking for more information on how you know, the imagination on that, how to stop this, you know. And back then I felt a kind of horrible taste towards meat-based products, you know. So I think for me, it's very automatic. not No one told me, you know, that's why very mine is very solid. Can I ask, are that are there other people in your life that you're in contact with regularly, either virtually or person to person who are who are also vegan?
00:17:37
Speaker
And if if so, like what what does their lifestyle look like? Is it is it similar to your own? Majority of the friends are the ones I i made through vegan groups, you know.
00:17:48
Speaker
So the other ones I talk to more often from the vegan groups, you know, and looking at different countries. around the world. So I do communicate with them more often. So that's been my experience.
00:18:03
Speaker
I mean, it's it's wonderful, isn't it, to to have the ability to to connect with folk around the world that are sharing a similar vision to you? Because it it it can, I mean, i can't imagine what it was like being vegan 30 years ago. you know, you could live in ah a village or a town and you could you could be the only person there who is vegan and then who who are you connecting
Connecting Internationally and Encouraging Veganism
00:18:25
Speaker
with? that That must have been really difficult, I think. well if You feel isolated, you know, and it feels like maybe you're crazy. Maybe you don't know what you're talking about.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Until the burning moment. Yeah, absolutely. do Do you have times where you you, I mean, you're coming across as very assertive and very determined, but like, do you have moments of doubt or um moments where it it can feel quite low or or like what problems do you encounter?
00:18:50
Speaker
You're coming across as very, very confident and capable at the moment, but I am thinking there's, There's got to be things that were difficult. Everyone does. Yeah, the moment is very is very confident at the moment. So I would have said that um years back, and that that was when it felt difficult. But as time went by with each communication, with each discovery of each community, with each knowledge, and then with each community, you know, real-time conversations that where you you get to share your own views. And do they also...
00:19:24
Speaker
believe what you're saying and they also do what you're saying. It doesn't feel so real, so real. So at the moment, um the confidence is unwavering. It's not low. It's not low. That's good. That's good. That's what we want to hear.
00:19:38
Speaker
That's what we want to hear. is there um Is there anything that you would have gone about differently and your in your vegan journey? So, I mean, I've i've heard some people say, oh, they they wish they'd become vegan sooner or maybe they wish they had have been kinder to themselves. Have they slipped up or they, you know, they went back on it for a few weeks or whatever and they were really hard on themselves or is there anything that you would have done differently if you could go through that journey again? First, it would have to do with my approach towards, ah you know, finding detail because the the speed at which I found um information back then was really slow. The only thing I would have
00:20:17
Speaker
wanted to be different would be that um I had um assessed all the information faster and that the communities, I had assessed them faster. you know Maybe I would have done more by now you know because it really took a lot of time to actually get in contact with the communities. You send them emails and you know it may take time for them but into reply. And again, um the contacts that you get are viewed up.
00:20:42
Speaker
So I think um if there's one thing, because I'm more focused on how I could have made more impact, you know. And if that would have been reversed, it should have been, I wish it would have been, you know, like faster, you know,
00:20:57
Speaker
the access to information and the access to the communities. So yeah, but we keep working on that. Yeah, it's that's it's really inspiring. You know, yeah it's it's coming across how how driven you are to to make a difference here. It's is fantastic to hear.
00:21:11
Speaker
I'm wondering that part of the reason we have episodes like this is because we know that most of our listeners are vegan, but we make the assumption that not everybody will be. And we know that a lot of our listeners will share episodes with friends, family, co-workers who are maybe interested in vegan from time to time. And I'm wondering what message you would give to somebody listening who is not yet vegan.
00:21:36
Speaker
What would you say to them, particularly if they were wondering about trying out the lifestyle themselves and they were thinking, oh I'm not sure whether I should or not. What would you say to them?
00:21:47
Speaker
First, I would say that they shouldn't be discouraged because when they are about to take that first step, you know, it might feel that um to those who are around them, that they are crazy, you know. So my message is that they shouldn't relent, you know, because what we are against is so horrible.
00:22:04
Speaker
The acts that are done to animals, that's one of the central messages, that they should not be scared of what people might say, you know. And again, that um it's very beneficial.
00:22:17
Speaker
It's very helpful to their health as well. And it's very helpful to the environment in general. No, that's that's a really clear, strong message. I enjoyed that. I'm i'm wondering, do you have, you like you've you've mentioned the atrocities that are happening from animals' points of view. you've You've obviously mentioned the environment and health too, which are a big motivator for lots of people.
00:22:38
Speaker
But just from an animal-centric point of view, do you have a ah particular thing in mind that you that you think about the that that really motivates you with regards to animals point of view. I ask this because when when i first went vegan,
00:22:53
Speaker
the the thought of what happens to male chickens when they're like a day old and they're they're just killed because they're boys and that's it. you know they They were born the wrong sex, born the wrong gender and that's it.
00:23:06
Speaker
That really stuck in my mind as like, my goodness, this is this is horrible. like Is there a one particular element of of animal farming or animal use that stays in your mind and and motivates you more more than any other?
00:23:19
Speaker
The way they are slaughtered daily. you know, and then the statistics is in millions, in billions even, is in millions. So that's where what's always hinged on my mind, you know, and again, the experiments, you know, that's more on a deeper level. All scientific fields, they are all using animals in order in all their experiments, you know, so it's something that also sticks to my mind and it's so horrible.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah. And again, the horrible conditions in which most of the animals are read. And then again, the abuse of animals, you know, people who abuse them a lot. So.
00:23:58
Speaker
Lots of really striking images there. I want us to finish on a positive note because it's been really, it's been really great talking to you, Freedom, and and hearing your insight to things. And I know, i know listeners will have really enjoyed this.
00:24:10
Speaker
If we can finish by focusing on what your hopes are and your, your, your signs for optimism, for the vegan movement? like we We know it's growing, we know that it's reaching corners of the world that it perhaps wasn't in initially, but what what gives you hope and what gives you optimism for that for the animal rights movement and the vegan movement?
00:24:30
Speaker
There's been know a whole lot of, and because I've been doing a whole lot of research, you know, so that which gives me hope includes At the moment, a whole lot of plant-based, because some people were saying, um what will they eat when they stop eating plants, you know? So at the moment, there's a whole lot of innovation going on with regards the development of plant-based foods, you know, whole lot of research, because i there's been a whole lot of research going on towards um the non-use of animals in experiment, you know, by most ah biotechs that are coming up now.
00:25:05
Speaker
are now focusing our focusing towards sustainability. And again, a whole lot of um movements around the world that um is trying to conserve the ecosystem, you know, the natural environment, you know, because all non-vegan lifestyle lead to the destruction of the ecosystem.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, we can see that around it down here, you know, for example, animal poaching, you hear about that often. Animal coaching, which people are now, organizations are now involved massively to stop it. Else, if left with the non-vegan lifestyle, they would um drive all these animals to extinction.
00:25:45
Speaker
So those are three hinge points where I consider the hope to lie on, you know. So there's hope and um I keep getting more confident. And again, um more options are now considered towards the use of non-vegan product. For example, leather is no more like considered as the ultimate option. That has been the hope at the moment.
00:26:10
Speaker
The non-use of animals for experiment is gaining more momentum, you know, it's gaining more momentum. And again, they imagine a whole lot of plant-based meal options, you know, because some people will be giving you excuses that what would they be eating if There's no meat.
00:26:31
Speaker
So the health-based facts that point towards um the effects of meat, you know, meat-based nutrition on the human body. So the movement, I experienced a kind of powerful movement, most especially in the European countries, you know,
00:26:47
Speaker
People are now taking their health more seriously. It's not just about eating anything that you see. So it's all more positive. gets more and more positive as the day goes by. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Before we go, Freedom, I'm really intrigued to ask.
00:27:03
Speaker
You're going know tons more about what...
Challenges and Hopes for the Future
00:27:08
Speaker
a vegan movement looks like in Namibia, for example, than, than I, like I have no insight into that at all. And I don't, I don't want to put all, all my um projections onto you here, but I'm, I'm just wondering if, if you would be happy to give,
00:27:24
Speaker
any insight you have as to what that looks like in in a country like Namibia? Because i I know myself and I imagine a lot of our listeners wouldn't have much knowledge or insight of that at all. Would you be happy to share what what it looks like at the moment from your perspective anyway? It's not as it is in the European countries, so unless ah more action is being taken. And I speak for the African nations in general, you know, think um for people like me, they just need to put in more effort to spread the message, you know, because um I think um with the ah ability of people to travel and see
00:28:04
Speaker
the cultures in other countries, you know, they get to see that um this is not how these things should be, you know, this not how things are meant to be. i mean, the horrible maltreatment of animals, you know, and all that.
00:28:17
Speaker
They kind of learn a whole lot of things on how their lifestyle impacts the environment, you know. So think more and more people like me should um try to share the word and let the message be known.
00:28:32
Speaker
around um our environment, you know, because at the moment people are still seeing living the non-vegan lifestyle, you know, the they are not um kind of aware of what's happening and then on how even their lifestyle is affecting the environment. So these are things that need to be, you know, looked at. And it's fantastic that despite the fact it's a non-vegan environment, that there are people out there still who like doing what you're doing and, and spreading that message and and getting it to places that it might not get to otherwise. And that's, that's inspiring. That's trailblazing. And like all of these movements start in a very, very small scale before they can get bigger and yeah, all, all power to you and, and, and everybody who is, who is spreading that message into places that it wouldn't ordinarily get.
00:29:26
Speaker
That's fantastic. Yeah. Happy to be on this podcast um that I, you know, get a mirror of my own views you know and then i hope to do more and i hope to also assist these podcasts in whatever ways i can thank you yeah that's great that's great well it's it's been great to learn more about you and um i know our listeners will will have enjoyed it too yeah i will probably not too
00:29:51
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:30:06
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:30:32
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:30:53
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from