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177- Vegan school lunches in Spain, and no more hitting zoo animals in the UK
104 Plays17 days ago
Great news for vegan children in Spanish schools this week, as plant-based food is very much on the menu. Hooray!
And then in what has to be one of the most patronising damp squibs of a story of the year so far, this week the latest 'progress' for animal rights has been heralded across the UK, namely that UK zoos have got two years to wipe out practices like using pain and fear to train animals, and keeping birds of prey in tiny cages.
But is progress always this slow?
As well as these two stories, Paul, Dominic & Ant sit down to report on, comment on & dissect seven other stories from the last week or so- all of which have a vegan or animal rights slant.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2061266/post-apocalypse-uk-vegan-friendly
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/plant-based-school-meals-spain-new-law/
https://nation.cymru/news/animal-rights-group-finds-legal-breaches-at-three-game-farms-in-wales/
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20250526/Is-a-vegan-diet-the-right-choice-for-your-child.aspx
https://kmph.com/news/local/animal-rights-group-rescues-sick-goats-from-california-dairy-amid-abuse-claims
https://www.huntsabs.org.uk/new-fox-hunting-season-sees-amalgamation-across-the-nation/
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/25193082.bournemouth-celebrate-national-animal-rights-day/
https://vegconomist.com/cultivated-cell-cultured-biotechnology/cultivated-meat/cultivated-meat-expected-european-shelves-within-two-years-new-food-forum/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/05/24/uk-updates-zoo-welfare-rules-with-bigger-spaces-for-elephants/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Misconceptions about Veganism
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for vegan and animal rights news from the last week. I'm Anthony, joining me for this episode are Dominic and Paul, but that is enough of the falafel, it is time for Vegan Week!
00:00:15
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble, even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for! Brrr! Take your flat-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida.
00:00:27
Speaker
What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me. Hang on a minute. You always pick.
00:00:42
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:57
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision.
Veganism and Food Supply Chain Vulnerabilities
00:01:01
Speaker
and Hello everyone, this is Paul, welcome to the show, thanks for being here and listening with us, and hello Dominic. Hey, hello, hello, yes my name is indeed Dominic, I am full of joy to be here with Paul and Anthony. Anyone who's listening for the first time, this is our new show. What we're going to be doing is looking through last week's vegan and animal rights news.
00:01:25
Speaker
But that's enough for the falafel, let's hear what has been going on this week.
00:01:33
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
00:01:47
Speaker
Okay, we're going to start off this week's round-up with my favourite headline of the week. Post-apocalypse UK must be vegan-friendly, Government Minister warned. It's like, you know, even post-apocalypse, you know, the the woke vegan snowflakes need to be looked after. This was actually something said by Professor Tim Lang, who you might know. He's a bit of a food policy expert bod. And he was speaking at the Hay Festival, which is quite a big literary cultural event here in the UK each year. And what Tim Lang has basically said is
00:02:21
Speaker
any shocks to the food supply chain, such as the ones cited in this article are a cyber attack or a Russian assault. Basically, these things could shock the food supply chain and there are certain things that would be left vulnerable.
00:02:37
Speaker
um And the two that he particularly seemed to mention were those following a vegan diet and Muslims. I don't know whether it's those particular two words that the ah is led the Daily Express to report this, is which is where we're taking this from. It takes me back to a ah ah book that we reviewed last year by George Monbiot called Regenesis and talking about how our food system at the moment is a simple system rather than a complex system, which might make it quicker, more streamlined, but a bit more
00:03:09
Speaker
vulnerable to to things like this happening in extreme events. Paul, is this something that's keeping you up at night? Apocalyptic scenarios where we don't have any plants left to eat?
00:03:21
Speaker
Not in the sense of the focus that's been given in this story, I think. So it feels a bit clickbaity and that's a bit of a theme of some of my stories actually this week. It seems to be a bit a bit build like, oh, you know, the world's blown up, but ah vegans still must have tofu. And you can just imagine...
00:03:38
Speaker
Express readers going, oh, bloody vegans, they're just worried about themselves. So I think that's kind of probably what it's aiming to do, rather than, know, you could write this story about hey, ah vegan food, which everyone can eat, that's quite an important thing to keep available to people in a um continuity type ah situation when you have got an
Vegan Diets: Safety, Planning, and Misconceptions
00:03:58
Speaker
episode. The the guy does talk about cybersecurity attack, but then seems to the story seems to drift off into other incidents where you'd have business continuity invokes. So things like natural disasters and things like that, which seem yeah much more realistic in terms of the fact that we have a lot of our food imported from
00:04:15
Speaker
other very hot countries like Egypt and Spain, for example. But yeah, the guy's obviously not really much of a cybersecurity expert, I think, because listeners are probably aware there has been um some scattered spider attacks on Co-op and M&S recently.
00:04:30
Speaker
They're all through social manipulation, ultimately. And I think the thing to remember is, you know, the the food chain, we've got a lot of different retailers and they do need to have cybersecurity, but we've got defence in kind of breadth. So, you know, if Co-op goes down, there's still...
00:04:45
Speaker
other other places so yeah a bit a bit scare scaremongering um but it yeah it does does raise a few interesting things about the need to to keep you food security is an important issue for vegans i think but it's more in terms of you know we're probably concerned with things like certain nations and their and the environment getting too hot for them to grow food and then entire populations having to move around on that basis. So i think there's a bigger, think there's a bigger story here than what's really been talked about.
00:05:14
Speaker
And I've just noticed that the picture in the, um in the article, he's got a load of non-vegan food in it. So that's, that's good as well. Yeah, absolutely. I think there's, um it's, it's definitely a a good one to get people interested in these things, but if it's just the tip of the iceberg, isn't it? Because at the very bottom of the article,
00:05:33
Speaker
He's mentioning, oh, we're importing potatoes from Egypt. We're getting so much of our veg from Southeast Spain, but neglects to point out quite how much animal feed comes from Amazon or places like that. So to paint things as just uh oh you know it's the vegetables that are the problem but of course the meat's all fine and is is a bit short-sighted but um definitely interesting one to get the ball rolling with thank you for that one paul moving on to the first story we're going to ask dominic to comment on this one is from uh
00:06:08
Speaker
Perhaps we could say the other end of the spectrum in terms of news publications. This is from News Medical Life Sciences Journal, where a major review has revealed that vegan diets can be safe and healthy for children if meticulously planned and supplemented.
00:06:24
Speaker
We might challenge some of the wording there. Perhaps a revealed is ah is a bit um outdated. I'm pretty sure that's been ah common knowledge for for quite a while. But this review stressed the need for better guidance to bridge critical knowledge gaps for parents and clinicians alike. So this was published in the journal Nutrition Reviews.
00:06:46
Speaker
and researchers analysed current research on vegan diets in children, focusing on health outcomes, growth and nutritional adequacy. They identified gaps in evidence and highlighted the need for guidance in public health and clinical contexts.
00:07:03
Speaker
Dominic, as I say, I think lot of us who are vegan and are used to defending ourselves and our life choices and those around us will have known that the NHS, the American Dietary Association, lots of major organisations have said this for a while.
00:07:19
Speaker
It's good that it's getting out there even further. What what were your thoughts on this story? It is good that it's getting out there but I have a reaction on the way it's worded and maybe I need to override that reaction and just think yeah it's good that we're saying what we all know that it's fine to be vegan any diet can be unhealthy any way of living has the potential to be unhealthy where are the studies saying if all you do is eat Greg's sausage rolls every meal that that's going to be deficient in what you need like for fear of sounding cut
00:07:53
Speaker
classist because you know like I know loads people go because of like various reasons to do with like just where they're at but any diet needs to include everything so of course a vegan diets can include everything it's such a sensitive topic with children isn't it i remember when I very very first went vegan ah these days I'm a self-employed person but I wasn't always i was working in an office and And I don't have any children. I've got no plans to have any children.
00:08:23
Speaker
But it's always difficult talking to colleagues in an office. And a woman said, oh, would you um raise your child to be vegan? And my answer then, like all those many, many years ago, is not the same as the answer I'd give now.
00:08:37
Speaker
My answer back then was, well, I think I'd give my child the choice. I'd just explain exactly how the animal industries work.
00:08:47
Speaker
And it was just violence in the office. Like, I got said the most awful thing. Like I said, oh I'll just sit down and make my young child watch like 18 certificate horror movies, like works of fiction where like scary monsters w rip people to shreds. And it's like, how?
00:09:05
Speaker
How's that controversial? How's what I've said controversial? So, yeah, there's always a moral panic of think about the children, think about the children. But as you said, aunt really, really like this isn't news. It shouldn't be news, but it's good that there is at least a positive slant on it. Yeah, absolutely. i I really would like to see studies done. I mean, maybe they exist and I just need to go looking for them bit harder, but but focusing on standard diets that people follow. I took exception to that phrase, meticulously planned.
00:09:41
Speaker
I think, well, yes, if you want to tick off every single nutritional marker in your child's diet, which i I would argue, of course, you do want to, then yeah, meticulously planning it is going to be necessary.
00:09:55
Speaker
But I really would have thought that was the case for any child. And actually, what proportion of families are able to or do do that planning for their child at the moment. ah ah Off the top of my head, I think it's something like 95% of the population of the UK are deficient in fibre.
00:10:12
Speaker
That's pretty crucial. You know, if you're not getting enough fibre, you're very quickly getting into a lot of trouble um at certain times of the day and and and lots of other things too. So it it does feel disingenuous to point out particular sensitivities that vegan families might need to think about, which yes, of course they do.
00:10:33
Speaker
without pointing out the fact that, well, actually in the UK, we're all vitamin D deficient unless we supplement or or get it in other ways, because there's not enough sunlight. We're all running the risk of being B12 deficient because of how sanitized our lifestyles are. So it feels a bit mean to be picking on the vegans but um god you know what and you know what for fear of being like aren't i wonderful aren't i one for fear of sounding like that my mum forced me to go to my gp and get vitamin d and vitamin b12 tests because of her worry about how many years i've been vegan and i was thinking to myself all right you know actually if i'm hand on heart honest maybe i I don't study exactly how much of vitamin D and B12 that I get because I don't take any supplements, but I do have a lot of food, vegan food, which I'm aware is ah fortified, you know, does have things. And yeah, I'm top of the shop on everything. Every single thing. Vitamin D for vitamin Dominic.
00:11:39
Speaker
Top of the class, top of the class, which takes us on nicely to some new legislation in Spain, which is aimed at children's in school.
00:11:51
Speaker
And this bit of legislation is making plant-based school meals standard, says the article that we've taken from Vegan Food and Living, ensuring, as they say, healthier, more sustainable diets
Legislation and Activism in Veganism
00:12:02
Speaker
for children. When you get into the article, it looks to me like it is saying that plant-based meals need to be offered if people need them.
00:12:12
Speaker
Basically, like I couldn't see anything in there that's saying they need to be on offer all the time for everybody. Paul's taken a look at this article in a bit more depth. I don't know whether you you want to contradict me there, Paul, but it looked to me like it was saying if there is a child who follows a plant-based diet, the school needs to provide it.
00:12:31
Speaker
It's not saying everyone's getting plant-based food all the time. Was that your take too? It was slightly different, but then you might have read it more in depth. i I felt the article was very positive. It felt like a kind of supersized version of the previous stories we've had before. Not supersizing in the fruit terms of the film.
00:12:49
Speaker
um But as in, we've looked a lot in the past at individual public organizations. So individual universities, individual schools, individual councils, for example.
00:13:00
Speaker
This is more of a legislative diktat. which sort of sits above all that which I think is really really good so I'm on very happy to see that coming at that legislative level. that That's something that would be a a huge boon you know in here, in this country, for example.
00:13:18
Speaker
So yeah, it feels very good from from that perspective. And it also feels good, I think, because I wouldn't have thought Spain was the country I'd see this sort of legislation coming from.
00:13:29
Speaker
Generally, my experience in Spain has been that it's not the most vegan-friendly country I'd have expected to see this maybe in the Netherlands or Germany or somewhere like that. But sir yeah, that's good as well because I didn't expect to see that. Well, mean, the article says that like currently that there's a particular focus on legumes.
00:13:48
Speaker
They say currently only 14% of Spanish school canteens are serving legumes once a week, whereas this new recommendation is saying two to four times a week with a long-term goal of daily consumption reducing animal protein intake so it might be that actually things aren't particularly plant-based but they're getting a kick up the backside to do so yeah yeah and and which which would be a it would be um a major switch there and the other thing i read into this or the thing that i sort of took from it was and i think it's mentioned in the article actually is the is the potential knock-on effects this sort of legislation can have across other countries because if
00:14:29
Speaker
Spain are looking at this, then others might start looking at it as as well. And if that is in the kind in the context of just providing for those who are choosing of a particular dietary choice, or it might be you know wider than that, that people start looking at it in the context of, well, if if another country's introduced this sort of stuff at a legislat legislative level, perhaps you can start doing this for demanding certain levels of vegan food being available, for example. So I took it as a very positive thing.
00:14:56
Speaker
And as say, we've, we've covered so many stories about individual unis and stuff that have got this through and then taking it away or, you know, it's been rejected. So, the kind of little bite-sized bits but this felt bigger to me so yeah i thought it was pretty positive. Yeah absolutely absolutely let's move on to our next story now we've been focusing quite a lot on food and plant-based food but let's put the focus on animals we're going to go across the Atlantic Ocean to California ah this comes to us from Fox News this might be the first ever Fox News story that we have covered um I'm gonna say well I'm not gonna say whether I think it's positive or not actually because I think there's a bit of both in there
00:15:33
Speaker
The headline is Animal Rights Group arrested for taking sick goats from California dairy amid abuse claims. And the article goes on to say that five activists as part of direct action everywhere.
00:15:49
Speaker
were arrested for taking the goats from Mayenburg's Vera Goat Dairy in a place called Stratford. The members of the group rescued the baby goats from the dairy, a large operation supplying Mayenburg Dairy, the largest goat milk producer in the USA.
00:16:06
Speaker
Now, direct action everywhere have said that the goats showed signs of being sick with infections that affected breathing and sight, and they accused Vera Goat Dairy of violating the certified humane standards a label under which they market their milk and helps it be sold at major retailers. The groups obviously like a lot of these bits of direct action lots of time spent investigating the site, undercovering lots of things going on that that shouldn't be before but for making this move which included uncovering numerous dead goats.
00:16:42
Speaker
on the property.
Media Portrayal and Activism in Animal Rights
00:16:44
Speaker
Dominic, you've had a look at this one. Obviously not great that activists have been arrested in terms of that you know that potentially interrupting their own activism, but it's made the the news in a major media outlet and it it gives some hope for for the animals who are suffering in that facility and just raising awareness of of the horrid stuff that's going on anyway. It does indeed, it does indeed. My personal reaction was a memory that I'd completely forgotten about my own journey towards veganism.
00:17:19
Speaker
because mine was quite slow. I didn't just go vegan overnight. It was a very private thing of, oh, maybe I don't want to be eating honey. Maybe I don't want to be eating eggs, like one by one.
00:17:30
Speaker
And I'd completely forgotten that I drank goat milk for quite a while. And that was a way I weaned myself off of dairy milk. I remember it tasting quite different and with no evidence at all.
00:17:43
Speaker
I just decided that goat milk was more ethical because it was less mainstream. And I thought, well, clearly it'll be tiny little farms where the goats are well looked after, which is exactly the same kind of mentality ah meat eaters who say, yeah, but my uncle has chickens and he's really kind to them.
00:18:06
Speaker
Therefore, it's fine, you know, ah which is nonsense, nonsense. So I think that was a good memory because we can all sometimes feel exasperated when people are ah saying nonsense things. And when we remember that maybe we thought nonsense things, that was certainly a nonsense thing that I thought. And I wonder how many other people might think the same, might think that goats...
00:18:29
Speaker
is less usual. This news story um was, you know, a revelation to me and that I didn't know even now, really, that it was such a big business. So, you know, is it is a ah positive thing that it's being covered on something as mainstream as Fox News.
00:18:48
Speaker
And I was reading through, you know, oh sort of i had gritted teeth as I was doing it, like thinking, oh, are they going to be really like, oh, these mad activists with their ridiculous ethics?
00:19:04
Speaker
And I thought it was relatively... not bashing the activists for doing what they they did. I thought it was relatively neutral. What did you think, Andrew? What did you think of the tone? Well, yeah, I i agree with you that there there wasn't a sort of derogatory tone.
00:19:22
Speaker
Very often people can sort of paint animal rights activists as hyperbolic lunatics who are ah taking things out of all proportion. That wasn't there. What was missing as well as that tone was actually any kind of repercussions for the farm itself so despite direct action everywhere's reports there's been no enforcement actions taken against the dairy and in fact the arrest of the activists seems to be the only thing that has happened immediately there was some mention of the central valley regional water quality control board
00:19:58
Speaker
acknowledging ongoing violations. I couldn't quite understand what they had to do with it, actually, the waterboard. But they basically said, oh, we're understaffed at the moment. So so that's why things aren't going as well as they they should.
00:20:11
Speaker
um But that that was quite disheartening because we've reported in the show the last few weeks, um and I have to say it's been British-based farms, when they've had allegations um an expose is done on them.
00:20:24
Speaker
Supermarkets have dropped them. Admittedly, probably only temporarily, they probably get them back on board a few weeks later. But there has been seen to be a need to respond and say, oh, we decry that, that's terrible.
00:20:36
Speaker
um Whereas that was missing in this article. And i don't know whether that's Fox News' reporting or whether just that people are less bothered or the authorities are less bothered in there and the US.
00:20:48
Speaker
But great that this has been highlighted and has got in the media and Like you say, people have interesting perceptions of over you know what's okay and what's not. And perhaps this will challenge folk who who think that, oh, well, you know goats will only be farmed in very small farms. Nothing terrible will ever happen to them.
00:21:06
Speaker
um It will challenge that, I think, won't it? Yeah, I agree. Well, let's move on to another story where we have got some good old activists highlighting stuff that shouldn't be going on in the hope that things will be done against them. This comes to us from a Welsh national journalism publication, Nation... I never know how to say.
00:21:29
Speaker
Is it Humry? C-Y-M-R-U. It's the word that Welsh people use to describe Wales in Welsh. Anyway... Humry! Humry! There we go. Very good. Welsh. It's a phonetic language. Once you've learned the very different noises each letter makes, it's phonetic. So, Cymru is the answer. Excellent, excellent. Well, anyway, in Wales, an animal rights group have found legal breaches at three game farms in the country. um Animal Aid have reported the alleged breaches to the Animal and Plant Health Agency as well as Powess County Council's Trading Standards Department. They say they discovered breaches of the Animal Byproducts Regulations 2006 and Schedule 2 of the Government of Wales' declaration of an all-whales avian influenza prevention plan.
00:22:22
Speaker
zone so loads of loads of stuff not going on just just for confirmation this is a farm where breeding will happen in order to ah breed birds and animals that will then be shot at which is rather sickly called game um nothing really gamey about it in short the breaches were barren cages so Basically, the places where the breeding pheasants and partridges were, were not in the in the conditions they should have been on.
00:22:52
Speaker
Dead birds on top of cages. I mean, that's pretty clear cut, isn't it? that That's ah a hideous thing. Feather loss, lack of protection from the weather, but... We've got to say, Paul, good on um the folk from from Animal Aid for for finding these things out, but still no immediate sign of anything happening to stop it or any repercussions for the organisation itself. But maybe it's a bit too early in the day to to see that yet.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, that was my reading of the article because when it comes to the end, there's a response from certainly one of the farms involved in terms of them saying they're taking legal advice. So I so i suspect it's kind of more hot off the press type situation.
00:23:38
Speaker
But yeah, no surprises here. Shock people in vested in killing birds for profit, not providing care for those birds. ah what we yeah What do we expect? There's a horrific picture in the article showing the the birds piled up and and and the eggs and it kind of debunks any myth that there might be out there that yeah game birds might be used for food after they're shot.
00:24:00
Speaker
um you know It's just a waste from the overall, I won't call it a sport, but the the the barbaric activity that takes place. It's part of a shoot. It's a senseless waste and also a health hazard, as the article points out. Of course, the question here is really like, you know, where is the checking that should be going on here?
00:24:18
Speaker
And who is that? yeah We often hear with these sort of great undercover reports from brilliant organisations like Animal Aid that, you know, they've gone in and they've seen these things. But you have to say, you know, who's responsible here? Is there some government body that should be doing checks? Vets should be doing checks. so So the process is obviously failing.
00:24:41
Speaker
I'm sure we'd be told it's because there's not enough resources. But, you know, ultimately... There's horrible breaches of animal cruel animal welfare here. it's a It's pretty hideous thing and again we do rely on people at Animal Way to highlight these things.
00:24:55
Speaker
As I say later on in the article was looking through and you always get, well I say we always, We do get a fairly typical response from one of the organisations that have been potentially identified here. And they say quite laughably, we're very cautious about people visiting our birds due to the risk of avian and influenza.
00:25:14
Speaker
We are very concerned. Irresponsible people are breaking into premises and moving from one farm to another without proper approved biosecurity protocols. They are putting the health and welfare of our birds at risk.
00:25:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, because obviously they're the only ones doing that. it's it's It's just that whole um distraction technique, isn't it? With oh what you did was illegal and it's dangerous um and we we we care about our birds, which quite clearly the article shows is nonsense.
00:25:42
Speaker
But yeah, I guess some people might read that and and think, oh yeah, these nasty animal rights people being all dangerous breaking into these places when really if it wasn't for them, then obviously the actions would go unreported and they'd be getting away with it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was it was a laughable response that was particularly hideous.
00:26:00
Speaker
There was also a ah a comment where they they opened up that their response saying, oh, these pictures aren't an accurate representation of our bird housing. It's like, well, but I mean, they're pictures of your facility. so ah What are you saying? it's It's not like that over the rest of the the cages.
00:26:16
Speaker
so So therefore, that's okay. You know, we're only abusing a few of our prisoners. So yeah that well a picture is a picture. Like it shows what's happening in the facility. You know, there's not really much comeback. But yes, we will keep our eye on this particular news publication to see if anything else is is reported. But again, just to echo what you said, Paul, good on animal aid.
00:26:39
Speaker
for getting out there and exposing these things in the first place, because they're certainly not going to report on it themselves, are they? This ah particularly insidious organisation that's breeding these birds to be
Animal Rights Activism: Impact and Perception
00:26:51
Speaker
killed.
00:26:51
Speaker
You might be feeling quite down listening to things that are happening there in game farms and and quite understandably too, but we're going to finish off this section with a good bit of news from the hunting world, and that comes to us from the hunt saboteurs,
00:27:07
Speaker
um who are reporting as of a few days ago in a really nice article that there is a link in the show notes for on quite how many hunts are having to amalgamate, they're joining together simply because there is lack of support. So instead of having just a few people doing it in one place and a few people doing it in another place,
00:27:29
Speaker
That's not providing them with the the economic returns or the jollity or whatever it is. But basically, there's not enough of them doing it. So they're having to club together. There is a UK focus to this. If you've not heard of the the Hunt Saboteurs Association before, they are a British based.
00:27:48
Speaker
So they cite um in Northumberland, the Morpeth Foxhound and the West Percy Hunts are joining together. The North Shropshire Hunt is merging with the South Shropshire Hunt to form the Shropshire Hunt. So that's that's great. That's effectively just one then for the whole county, whereas previously there were two.
00:28:10
Speaker
um On the other side of the country, the East Hertfordshire Hunt Sabs have confirmed that Puckeridge and Essex Union Hunt are to amalgamate with the neighbouring East Essex Hunt. I've got a feeling Chantel, was who was on the show the other week, does some sabbing.
00:28:26
Speaker
um in that part of the world. So yeah, brilliant stuff, Dominic, that that actually there is some quantifiable evidence there that this is becoming more and more of a fringe activity. That's really quantifiable that that's having to be done than reducing the service i do wonder for fear of uh being like less than positive about the story i do wonder if there's a certain element of maybe people starting to put this in the same category as like like we often talk about people's attitude to pets people go i'm an animal lover meaning they're a pet lover meaning they love cats and dogs
00:29:06
Speaker
And I think that I've lived in both the countryside and the city, and there's often a big sort of city versus countryside attitude. And, you know, I mean, I live in city at the moment. I live in Manchester.
00:29:20
Speaker
And, you know, I agree with a lot of the things I hear people around me say about the countryside. There's sometimes I'm mean like, oh, you know, but is that is that just like a sort of rivalry thing?
00:29:31
Speaker
So, you know, maybe yeah what we'd love is for people to be like, yeah, being cruel to dogs is bad. Yeah. Hunting foxes is bad.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah. Pigs in crates is bad. Yeah. Yeah. chickens being grounded. But, you know, we want that complete attitude to everything, don't we? And I do wonder whether... Let's hope that that's what this is moving towards. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But in itself, it's a fantastic thing to see the quantifiable proof of ah the decline.
00:30:06
Speaker
Hooray for less hunting. Yeah, and I think a great reward, I suppose, or cause for celebration for those people who who go out sabbing, because in many ways it must be quite thankless. you youre You're doing ah an awful lot of work, you're covering a lot of ground, and there'll be times where you you do see animals killed, that you're helpless to stop. so So having something that's a definite, right, this has happened, that you know we're we're seeing the progress, that I imagine that will help spur people on
00:30:38
Speaker
to continue the the good work that they do not not that they need any any encouragement you know i know their motivation is true but not nice to have something they can hang their hat on right we're going to come back in just a moment with our picks for the week and it sounds very much like dominic and paul are going away on their respective stag weekends because um paul's off to prague and dominic's down on the south coast in bournemouth
00:31:10
Speaker
Right, Dominic, let's start off with yourself. I say you're going down to Bournemouth. You're going to focus specifically on something that happened in Bournemouth, but that is part of a wider event, really, isn't it?
00:31:21
Speaker
Yeah, National Animal Rights Day. yeah Bournemouth are joining the global movement. This town will be one of more than 160 locations worldwide, including London, Paris and Los Angeles, marking the 15th annual National Day.
00:31:38
Speaker
Animal Rights Day. NARD is the acronym. N-A-R-D. So this event is organised by the non-profit Our Planet There's Two, and it aims to spotlight animal suffering caused by human actions, honour the lives lost, and celebrate progress towards a more compassionate world.
00:31:58
Speaker
The event each year kicks off with a memorial ceremony. If kicking off is the right verb for a memorial ceremony, that seems that I'm just reading what it says in the article. Maybe I'd have used a different phrasing, but yeah, there's a memorial ceremony.
00:32:13
Speaker
ah remembering billions of animals that die each year for food, fashion, experiments and entertainment, asylum procession. ah So in Bournemouth, that was from the peer approach, the triangle ah with participants holding up photos of suffering,
00:32:29
Speaker
animals uh they've got a 100 foot long scroll uh which has been signed by people all around the world which they read aloud this declaration calls for the recognition of animals as sentient beings deserving of protection and freedom So after this ceremony, the mood shifts to one of hope and inspiration ah with a celebration in collaboration with Life Festival.
00:32:59
Speaker
So, Ant, I know that when in my city, Manchester, when there are events for animal rights or indeed many other events,
00:33:11
Speaker
really important causes often the attitude of people is oh my word look at those crazy crazy people because there are also people who are very and not i'm not talking about vegan activism here but in my uh city there are often people with loudspeakers who um You know, ah I aim to be, you know, really open minded.
00:33:37
Speaker
But there are people, particularly people with with quite full on religious views who say things that are challenging, a challenging. And you think, oh, the vegans are going to get like lumped in with that, aren't they?
00:33:49
Speaker
I've got mixed views on this story. And I've got mixed views ah because I do think that it sounds like it's something that is, that is eye-catching. And I say eye-catching in a positive way and a negative way.
00:34:05
Speaker
Positive because that's what we want, isn't it? We want it to be memorable. We don't want stuff to just be going on in the background, easily ignored. This sounds... really attention grabbing but it also sounds like perhaps maybe your average person on the street might be like oh yeah look at those wacky people with their nonsense beliefs with things like you know ah hundred foot scroll you know pilot I don't know I don't know maybe I'm being you know maybe it's all my years as a as an as an artist trying to be well aware of how it doesn't take very much for people to be like oh look at that
00:34:44
Speaker
namby-pamby nonsense. What do you think, Anne? Well, I would agree with where you're coming from there. I think my takeaway from this is that isn't it great that there are all manners of activism and vegan coming together and sharing and so solidifying one's identity? Isn't it brilliant that there are lots of ways to do that? Because there are lots of people who are vegan, have been vegan for a long time, or maybe just a few minutes, who the thought of going and marching on the streets is the absolute last thing that they want to do.
00:35:20
Speaker
And also, i have done that and really got a lot from it. Now, in terms of... how effective is it it changing people's minds who are not yet vegan? There I would nail my flag to the mast and say I don't think it's particularly effective at all. I think getting a headline out in the newspaper, people seeing that something is happening, I think in a sense that does...
00:35:45
Speaker
do something to kind of validate the strength of belief that people hold towards animal rights and the fact that we are vegan we have these beliefs about animals rights it it kind of shows that to be a ah real thing and something that should be taken seriously will it turn anybody vegan absolutely not i'm i'm almost convinced of that All of that's going to make it sound like I'm being really negative.
00:36:11
Speaker
I really do think that events like this are great and it's great that they exist because just from my own experience, despite the kind of negatives that I've said there, I've come away from events like this before feeling incredibly motivated and that has fuelled future activism and animal advocacy for many many months following I've met people doing them who I've kept connections with and I think all of that's really important um so whilst I don't think personally anyone's going vegan from this sort of thing I do think it has a place and I'm i'm glad think opportunities like this do exist
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah, um I definitely agree about that wonderful shot in the arm of confidence. I might even go a step further and challenge you, Anne, as to whether um there is the potential for it to be something that does change minds. I'm a man who's a gay man. I take part in gay pride.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I think a lot of what we see, it depends where our reference points are. Gay prides in Manchester and across the country, because they've existed year upon year upon year, a tradition has built.
00:37:22
Speaker
So gay prides are very extravagant and full of outrageousness and objectively unusual. They are objectively unusual, but because that's now what's expected,
00:37:37
Speaker
I think that the wide society, of course, there are people who are very anti-gay pride. You get people campaigning against it. Of course, of course, of course. Sadly, that's the case. think there's a possibility for this to maybe grow in something where it is seen as a really ah positive thing. and and And, you know, gay pride is something that I think does...
00:38:01
Speaker
have a really positive effect on on people, you know, and leads to really good conversations. So, yeah, yeah.
00:38:11
Speaker
I do agree with you. ah do agree. i think, and and please jump in if i'm I'm being really ignorant here, but I would imagine that it's perhaps more straightforward for someone to passively feel like they accept...
00:38:29
Speaker
gay rights or something like that because unless there is anything directly affecting them like a family member or ah you know someone they work with you could say yeah I'm fine with that without it really having to affect you whereas in a sense because people will either eat animal products or they won't it's perhaps not something that you can quite as passively change your opinion on does that make sense?
00:38:57
Speaker
It does make sense. ah I think there's a parallel in that there's beliefs at work here. There's beliefs in organisations that run meat and animal product industries. Of course, they're going to be ah really well run not cruel because the world isn't cruel. That's that's a belief system, which is...
00:39:18
Speaker
flawed and people have very strong beliefs about, you know, gay people like me not being natural. there there's There's huge controversy about trans communities at the moment. You know, I'm very much campaigner to sort of keep the T in LGBT and all of that. So I think that Seeing these things can lead to conversations. When we see something, it becomes more than just a belief, more than just a, you know, we we can go into the deeper discussions about, well, actually, you know, what do I think about this? When, actually? actually faced with things that I'm actually really seeing out on the street. So maybe there might be a parallel there.
00:40:02
Speaker
All of this is complete speculation because I personally haven't been to a national animal rights day. And you know what? I'd really like to. I might have sounded like I was being really critical. Oh, is the average person on the street going to think that it's odd? It's unusual.
00:40:18
Speaker
But I, for one, celebrate the odds and unusual. And if there's one thing for which my lifestyle for it's encouraging the celebration of the odd and unusual so yeah let's uh you know that that there's my homework there's my homework for dominic to head off and attend a tender national animal rights day i could be a roving falafel reporter come back with my uh with my analysis which i reckon would be good yeah i'll go with colors yeah all of my sequins and uh yeah
00:40:55
Speaker
yeah why not well listeners you can you can find dominic on social media or just send us an email enough of the falafel at gmail.com if you uh if you find an animal rights protest or a march uh near manchester you can get in touch and we can we can send dominic out that's grand great stuff we thank you for that one dominic Let's move on to Paul's pick for the
The Future of Plant-Based and Cultivated Meat
00:41:19
Speaker
week. Paul, you you've found a headline and some findings following the new Food Forum conference held in Prague last week. And that by your own admission, you were hoodwinked by the headline with this one. I was.
00:41:33
Speaker
ah was indeed. So, yes, I picked this on ah on a headline, cultivated meat expected on European shelves within two years, according to New Food Forum. Sounded very good. Picked that as my article. Went on there.
00:41:44
Speaker
It's only a very po small part of the story. So I learned from that one. um It does talk about that, but it's basically reporting on a New Food Forum New I think it's Chechia now, isn't it? It is, yeah.
00:41:56
Speaker
Talking about numerous outputs from that forum, one of which is around cultivated meat, but it's also talking about a sort of Chechia-focused growth in the vegan food market, and they have report things that I guess we're seeing worldwide, such such as a wider uptake of vegan food by the younger population and and a ah growth in their own market. buy think it's where they're saying that 70 percent of but people who have tried milk substitutes and meat substitutes and the growth of the market goes to 1.42 billion whatever the check uh currency is i can't remember fact check it's not krona it don't know what the hell it is but anyway it's something check money um so and ah presume that's a lot i hope it's not like three pound fifty or something um
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, and they they also talk ah interestingly about identifying the need, and this goes back to the Spanish article we talking about earlier, the need for policy to support alternative protein development. So yeah, I think they do you need that.
00:43:01
Speaker
as well as the companies that are developing it, talking about other aspects such as particular companies that have won awards as well as part of the that' part of the forum. But the the bit that I really picked up on that is a small part of the story is around this cultivated meat.
00:43:17
Speaker
It's a bit of a grabbed headline. One of the guys there is basically saying he's... expects for there to be cultivated meat on the shelves in two years. um i think we've reported before about how there is already cultivated meat on shelves for animal products, if I remember rightly, although license has recently passed that this is either I assume for human consumption. I don't think they call that out, but I think that's the assumption.
00:43:40
Speaker
I guess I was expecting to launch into a big ah philosophical debate with you guys about cultivated meat, because I think we have talked about it numerous times, but I wasn't sure when we've done that most recently and if we've gone into and lot of the depth. Interestingly, I think me and I think certainly one of our other...
00:43:57
Speaker
Regular guests have probably got a view that cultivated meat is a a necessary evil, for want of a better phrase, in that if we're going to get a reduction in animal suffering in and animal killing, we do need to get people who want continue to eat meat this sort of product so there is actual less killing of animals. Obviously, these are usually taken with biopsies and generated in laboratory type situations.
00:44:22
Speaker
it's not perfect we all know that but I think it's a it's a positive step the I'm aware that the opposing argument to that from a abolitionist viewpoint might be well we're just allowing the continuation of people to eat meat and we should be getting them to eat uh you know meat replacements that aren't meat um and and pure vegan products I get that argument i understand it I don't think it's realistic so my view is that And I think others is that this sort of cultivated meat is a positive thing overall.
00:44:53
Speaker
Well, I think the fact that they've led with the headline on this story, despite the fact that there's not really that much chatter about in the article, does show you quite how much weight it carries.
00:45:06
Speaker
in in terms of an argument the fact that we've got places like italy just to give it a european focus where they've completely banned it before it's even come on the shelf and as we reported in the show last week nebraska in the usa um as well as a couple of other states have again banned it before it's even come into play it it shows that it's it's something that carries weight and yeah i i mean it it it gives a ah balance if if nothing else again earlier in the show we've spoken about how in Europe particularly it seems if one country does something then another country might copy it and another one too that was with regards to Spanish schools and their cafeterias again if if the Czech plant-based market is is making particular inroads in certain ways
00:45:52
Speaker
It could spark others off too. I did a bit of research while you were talking, Paul. 1.42 billion Czech korunas is equal to about 50 million pounds sterling. Let me just check that I've got my decimal points. Yeah, it's about 50 million pounds sterling.
00:46:11
Speaker
Bear in mind that that is a country with only and about 10 million people in it. So that's still... ah a reasonable size. And it i mean, the article, despite being clickbaity, if listeners want to read it um in more detail, follow the link.
00:46:27
Speaker
There's some interesting other green shoots there. They they mentioned Denmark and the the role that governments policy is is playing there in accelerating alternative protein development. I think there's lots of lots of positive signs there, which dovetails nicely into the story we featured earlier about Spanish schools and them and making their their menus more plant-forward,
00:46:50
Speaker
for want of a better phrase. So positive stuff, we'll take that. Those of you listening, you might have a different opinion. You might think that we absolutely, like you mentioned, Paul, we might be saying, no, this is absolutely wrong thing to do. We shouldn't be focusing on meat substitutes or cultivated meat at all, or indeed anything that we've spoken about in today's show or any other show.
00:47:11
Speaker
If you want to weigh in with your two pennies worth or 13.7 check karuna's worth we're all ears we love hearing what you've got to say and here is how to get in touch to get in touch with us just send us an email at enough of the falafel at gmail.com we see ourselves as a collective our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions questions feedback and ideas what helps shape the show
00:47:43
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. Enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. Okay, we've got time for one last story. We're taking this one from the animalreader.com, but I have seen it reported in many other publications. It's one of those that has made quite a few headlines this week. And that is the fact that United Kingdom...
00:48:04
Speaker
has updated its zoo welfare rules for the first significant time
Zoo Welfare and Animal Rights
00:48:10
Speaker
since 2012. twenty twelve The new Standards of Modern Zoo Practice for Great Britain was published by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and known as DEFRA,
00:48:20
Speaker
um And they say it's to aim to enhance animal welfare and conservation efforts. What does it look like then? Is it anything significant? Well, we'll see what Dominic and Paul think. Let's hear the details.
00:48:33
Speaker
Zoos must now provide larger enclosures for elephants, giving them more space that reflects their natural habitats. Presumably, they're not giving them whole savannas to roam over, but larger. Okay.
00:48:45
Speaker
um They need to provide bigger aviaries as well for keeping birds of prey. They cannot keep them in small cages. Another major change is the ban on touching marine animals like fish, rays and octopuses, citing the stress that can be caused to these animals.
00:49:02
Speaker
intelligent creatures. Now zoos and aquariums have got two years to implement these changes. Additional requirements focus on conservation such as improved record keeping, breeding programs for endangered species, behavioural research and public education on conservation.
00:49:20
Speaker
They also mention safety measures including double gated entry systems, protections for employees when they work alone and plans for animal care in case of financial hardship.
00:49:33
Speaker
um As you might expect, there's been lots of PR from various zoos, the British Zoological Society of London have weighed in, and it's generally being cited as a good thing.
00:49:45
Speaker
What do we think though? Paul, Dominic, what's your take on this? My summary of it is it's absolute bollocks, actually. It's lip service to welfare if I've ever seen it. It's a real missed opportunity to do something leading. I think it's quite embarrassing to see that the animal welfare...
00:50:05
Speaker
Minister is saying this is a once in a lifetime great yeah you know and set of initiatives we've got. You look at this sort of stuff we've got here. I mean, some of the things that it talks about, such as if I can actually find the damn thing.
00:50:20
Speaker
and So it talks about yeah regular health checks and emergency care plans must be in place. Oh, but Isn't that a given? Staff must be understand to train, try understand to understand animal behaviour and welfare needs.
00:50:34
Speaker
Pretty basic. Disease must allow animals to behave naturally and live in proper social groups. But that's impossible. Like you said, and I mean, but I think an elephant um it can... wander at least seven and a half miles to 121 miles a day so i'm pretty sure the enclosures aren't that big and and they're still in cages birds in bigger aviaries well it's not as big as the sky is it so pretty pretty pointless so i think it's a lot of flannel you know this animal welfare minister she's previously been the agriculture minister and voted against the hunt vans i think that tells you where
00:51:09
Speaker
Her allegiances lie. I mean, it it really is very, very poor. um and And them to say it's... ah web it's a The zoos are saying, oh, you know, it's just more of us demonstrating our world-leading animal welfare. It's just like absolute...
00:51:27
Speaker
absolute nonsense Absolute nonsense. I wondered, Dominic, because I saw this story reported in the local newspaper to Whipsnade Zoo in Bedfordshire, and they they were saying, well, of course, our standards are already meeting these needs, but actually some zoos in the UK...
00:51:44
Speaker
aren't doing a particularly good job. I wondered if this guidance and these new bits of legislation are more aimed at smaller zoos that might be sailing a bit too close to the wind in terms of what they currently do.
00:52:00
Speaker
and trying to tighten that up? I don't know, Ant. I don't know. I do know that I agree with what Paul was saying, that it's all... Yeah, I really wanted to be... oh I'll take the opposing view just for balance's sake, even if it's not my own view. But I really, really can't. When we, you know, read the yeah animal welfare minister talking about Britain being world leaders in setting the standard and all, it's it's really, really disheartening. Really, really disheartening.
00:52:28
Speaker
And I don't find ah anything really positive to be taken from this. not Not the most joyful of stories. No, no, I would agree.
00:52:39
Speaker
I actually used to volunteer at a zoo and it was Whipsnade Zoo um in in Bedfordshire. It's near to where I grew up. It was a time when I was vegetarian, I was working at Lush as well, I was sort of in my late teens and I saw myself as an ethical person, somebody who cared for animals and was doing their best to make the world a better place and I remember the training that we were given Whipsnade Zoo is ah run by the same organization that runs London Zoo. So it's ah it's a big deal, the london ah Zoological Society of London.
00:53:14
Speaker
And we went to London Zoo for some training and we were told there about you know what a great organization it is, how ethical it is, how you know people very often misunderstand what animals need. And you sort of look at the look at the elephant's enclosure and say, well, you know, it doesn't look very homely or whatever. And I remember that the sort of director for the whole zoo saying, oh, you know, what do you expect? do you need curtains and a sofa? What would make it more homely? like You know, what is more homely for...
00:53:45
Speaker
For an elephant, it's not the same as a human. And whilst that might be true, I think there's and what I learnt, certainly with hindsight since I've become more enlightened with with animal rights, has been that actually it's very easy to believe the flannel, I think that is a great phrase, Paul,
00:54:02
Speaker
that organisations will put out um and companies will put out. you know We've talked about greenwashing before, humane washing. I think that sort of stuff works because actually we don't normally... we have We have to train ourselves very well to accept change and to accept challenging viewpoints.
00:54:22
Speaker
And I think a lot of us who are vegan and believe in social justice, we've trained our brain to be more receptive to challenging ideas. But actually... For most people, most of the time, something that's a controversial idea or goes against the status quo, it's quite challenging because it might mean changing your behaviour, changing who you spend time with, what you do on the weekend. oh but we've we've got a season pass at our local zoo.
00:54:49
Speaker
yeah Now I've got this conflicting information. Am I going to be able to use that? What are the children going to say? blah bla So actually, it's much easier to swallow what we might deep down know is a lie or has been...
00:55:04
Speaker
you know, massage the truth has been massaged or whatever to to give it a different shine. That's a lot easier to do than to than to challenge things that are going on. And I i think that's why zoos get away with a lot of what they do, because people don't really want to confront it in the same way that folks don't want to confront what happens in an animal ag. And I think it's why change is slow. And actually, things like this aren't going to really be what changes things. It's going to be bolder bold animal rights, moves, demonstrations, boycotts and things like that. That's going to be what makes the changes to to animals' outcomes significantly, not not this sort of nonsense. I was trying to find the one element that really got my goat here. I wonder if I could just mention that, Anthony. So under animal training, which in itself sounds dodgy, animal training must be based on positive reinforcement only, never using pain or fear.
00:56:02
Speaker
It's like... do we have to write this shit down? i mean, when is this like 1930? I mean, ah ah what point do we have to be making that clear? You might as well say one of these point points is um we must not kick animals in the head.
00:56:16
Speaker
yeah You know, it's east like, well, it's really doing should be saying what two years to put this in practice. And this came in at the end of May, 2025. That means surely technically speaking in April, 2027,
00:56:28
Speaker
twenty twenty seven In a British zoo, you can, quote, train an animal by using pain or fear. It's abhorrent. Indeed. Prehistoric.
00:56:38
Speaker
Prehistoric. Sort it out. Sort it out. Don't go to zoos. Okay. Well, not the most positive story to end on, but nonetheless, we hope you have enjoyed the show. If you have enjoyed the show, we ask this every single time, but there is a tiny little favor you could do for us.
00:56:57
Speaker
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00:57:09
Speaker
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00:57:25
Speaker
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00:57:36
Speaker
Thank you, thank you everyone for listening. How lovely, how lovely. We want to give you a heads up for our next Enough of the Falafel episode coming out. Vegan Talk will be available from Thursday, June the 5th.
00:57:49
Speaker
There will be Anthony, Julie and Mark discussing what is the deal with vegan t-shirts. Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode.
00:58:01
Speaker
Thanks to Anthony and Dominic for your contributions. Thanks again to everyone for listening. I've been Paul and you've been listening to Vegan Week from Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:58:17
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:58:32
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
00:58:58
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:59:19
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week. So check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes. And remember to get an alert for each new episode, simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show.
00:59:34
Speaker
Thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from.