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182- Veg grown without animal manure? Tell me more! LISTENER MAILBAG #7
53 Plays10 hours ago
In this episode, Kate & Ant discuss emails and DMs that YOU listeners have sent in to us. We feature...
* Veganic 'stock-free' veg growing (referencing https://www.tolhurstorganic.co.uk/about-us/what-is-stockfree-organic/ and https://veganorganic.net/)
* A story about children getting sick from a petting zoo (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd14jvgewo)
* Loads of nerdy stats (for more, visit https://zencastr.com/Vegan-Week)
* And a quandary about Morris Dancing (stemming from this FB post https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=892708026284638&id=100066363468743)
We love hearing your views on the topics under discussion (or anything else!) so to tee up your questions for the next listener mailbag show, do drop us your thoughts via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Talk podcast, we aim to develop listeners' (& our own) thoughts around key issues affecting veganism & the animal rights movement; giving our opinions, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we home in on one topic in particular and pick it apart in more detail. If you have a suggestion for a future show, do get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Ant & Kate
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction & Format
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to another Enough of the Falafel podcast and this, to use a term that was probably in vogue about five years ago, is an ask us anything, mailbag, emails, you name it, you ask us a question and we will answer it. Who is we?
00:00:17
Speaker
It is me and the very brilliant Kate.
00:00:23
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! Protein! Take your lab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:42
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick
00:00:50
Speaker
of social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns, you'll be all right. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:01:02
Speaker
No, I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. and I don't have laser vision
Engaging Listeners & Q&A Importance
00:01:11
Speaker
either. Hello listeners, it's lovely to be here and hi Anthony, it's Kate.
00:01:16
Speaker
So this is an episode of Vegan Talk. um It's a bit different to our Vegan Week news sessions and this one is special because it's a mailbag one. So thank you to everybody who's contacted us.
00:01:32
Speaker
If you look back in the list of podcasts, you'll see there's quite a lot of other vegan talks episodes available on all kinds of interesting topics. So have a look if you haven't already.
00:01:45
Speaker
Indeed. And there's a few on some not very interesting topics, but we make them sound interesting. Such is our skill on these things. But as Kate has mentioned this episode is all about questions and answers you've given us some questions and we're going to do our best to give some answers it's really important to us that we do have these episodes dotted amongst our vegan talk list of things to chat about because whilst myself and Kate and other regular contributors like Julie, Paul, Carlos, Dominic and the rest of them we might be very happy to be behind the microphone but that doesn't mean that our opinions or views are any more important and that in fact if you're somebody that would prefer to type or write in
00:02:34
Speaker
your opinions, then it's very, very important to us that you get a chance to have that viewed as often as you would like to. So we've got a couple of emails and then we've got a couple of questions that come from within the Enough of the Falafel contributor community.
00:02:53
Speaker
Kate, do you want to start us off with the first email that is written from somebody that you know reasonably well? Yes, I will. ah quickly the I that I'm not always very comfortable behind the microphone because I'm often saying things that are very silly and I afterwards think, why did I say that?
00:03:11
Speaker
But hey, never mind. Hopefully, listeners won't notice too much. So anyway, this first email is from somebody lovely who I know called
Vegan-Friendly Agriculture Innovations
00:03:21
Speaker
Daisy. And as she says, hi, Anthony.
00:03:24
Speaker
Thanks for another great episode. Enjoyed listening to No Mo May this morning. Like Julie, we had already mowed the lawn last weekend, but now we know better.
00:03:35
Speaker
Also, wanted to share this link for stock-free produce that doesn't use any animal products. There's also a certification for farms that are growing organic and stock-free in case anyone has the opportunity to buy their veg from one of these farms.
00:03:52
Speaker
Best wishes, Daisy. So I was interested with this one, Kate. I mean, first of all, thank you, Daisy, for getting in touch, for continuing to listen and for sharing some more knowledge, because actually we we often get the ball rolling on these things, but wait we're no experts.
00:04:10
Speaker
um And so harvesting the knowledge from the enough of the falafel hive mind is definitely a very good thing to do. I seem to remember commenting on a show that actually,
00:04:22
Speaker
If there were a way of guaranteeing that the vegetables that I ate, as ah as well as other crops, not just veg, hadn't been grown using animal manure and animal products,
00:04:36
Speaker
I would be very happy to do so. That would be a priority for me. Is that something that that is on your radar, Kate? Or honestly speaking, does it does it not really matter? Yes, it's definitely on my radar because I don't want stuff that's all covered in manure because A, it's disgusting.
00:04:54
Speaker
And B, i don't think it's very vegan really either, is it? um Well, no, but as as we've said, it's is very hard to know, well, how do we how do we get hold of things? But it looks like Daisy's given us a ah good link here.
00:05:07
Speaker
Well, I have to fess up. I am actually a member of the Vegan Organic Network and Ian Tolhurst is a hero. he' is amazing.
00:05:18
Speaker
he yeah he grows veganically with no so it's not just organic it's beyond organic it's with no manure and so many people think you cannot possibly grow fruits and vegetables without lathering pig poo all over it or horse manure or something.
00:05:36
Speaker
But that's just so untrue because manure is plants that's been passed through an animal and all the goodness taken out. And that's what you're left with.
00:05:47
Speaker
Whereas if you're like composting plants, you've got not there and it's just like a whole food plant-based diet for the soil my way of thinking about it and so yeah we do grow at we grew grow some fruits and vegetables very badly i have to say because obviously gardener but um and we are we're on the we're on their vegan organic network map as well m and um and i'll i will show people around my garden and they can like um we've got loads of wild bits as well and no momay
00:06:22
Speaker
is just no mow at the minute because I went to mow a little patch of grass and there was a spider sitting there looking all nervous and I thought okay I can't mow you and then you know another bit oh no there was something else sitting on that and I just thought no every year we do let the grass grow long and we have we we get all sorts of creatures and we get you know, grasshoppers and all sorts. And we have nettle patches.
00:06:50
Speaker
So I figure we're growing butterflies and moths and things like that as well. So, I mean, we're quite lucky because we've got a slightly larger than average town garden, I guess. but even so, you know, um as ah ah think quite a lot of people probably stick their noses over the fence and think oh my word look at the mess in their garden but I i don't care ah just don't care I'm not one of these traditional people as we were saying and we've said before um I you know I really don't mind so um yeah I just wish there were more people like Ian Toblehurst but I don't know you can you can there's videos you can watch of him and
00:07:35
Speaker
I think there's there's one of George Monbiot being shown around his plot and really saying there, I mean, he gets no subsidies in Tollhurst and ah he does veg boxes for people, lucky people that live near there, near here.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, South Oxfordshire, it? Yes, but I mean, he he really, he he is not a rich man. You know, he works damn hard for not a lot of return.
00:08:05
Speaker
um How many people would be prepared to do that, I wonder? But I mean, what he's doing is is providing ah a blueprint, isn't it? it's It's a model, an example of how this can be done. And obviously, it's it's great to to see when you explore these sites online you see oh actually I could do a bit of that I could do a bit of veganic gardening but also there are some of us who but what probably most of us through either lack of skill lack of time or whatever actually we need to buy our produce from somebody else who is doing it so
00:08:42
Speaker
whilst there isn't a Tollhurst organics in every town or anything like that, the fact that one can exist. And indeed, I mean, if you, you know, I'm following around some links now as we're having this conversation and there are other organisations that have this stock-free organic standard that that is a way of us kind of having that extra level of vegan-ness, I suppose, to our plant-based foods that we're We know that, as he puts it, basically there's there's nothing from slaughterhouses, there's nothing from animal products, there's there's no animal byproducts in there at all. So you're kind of taking things to the next level, which is really ratifying to see that that's possible,
Email Prompt: Farm Shop Outbreak Discussion
00:09:26
Speaker
isn't it? Yeah, definitely.
00:09:27
Speaker
And also, as well as no slaughterhouse products and all the rest of it, there's no pesticides available. you know, artificial fertilizers, because all that kind of breaks down, destroys, you know, biodiversity. And I think the he has put it in, you know, things you know, when I've seen him talking is, you know, he's, he's God, he's, he's actually, can't remember how he puts It's gardening nature. He's like growing nature because, you know, he's encouraging all the predators for the pests, for the various, of the various crops, you know, the birds, um you know, so he doesn't want to be poisoning them.
00:10:13
Speaker
So, um and of course, things like all the chemicals that people use, they're really expensive, aren't they? So i think the cost of the inputs is pretty low, but it's just very, very hard work.
00:10:28
Speaker
So I would love for there to be um more people doing it. So yeah, so we could all access um basically really proper vegan food, vegan fruits and vegetables and probably grains and all the rest of it.
00:10:47
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's got to be doable, hasn't it? And the fact that there are people doing it. And I just always think to myself, well, just think how few vegans there were in the world 100 years ago. People that would, I mean, obviously the term didn't even exist, but say 50 years ago, how many people would have identified as vegan or would have known what that is?
00:11:06
Speaker
Now, obviously, there are millions and millions of people who are living that way. So even something where there is just one or two examples of something currently happening, that doesn't mean that that can't spread out. And that's a hopeful thought.
00:11:21
Speaker
We have done an episode where we reviewed the ah book written by George Monbiot that is called, Kate? Regeneration. of regeneratsis I was trying to call it regeneration.
00:11:34
Speaker
regeneration regeneration game it is episode 64 if you want to go the cuddly toy if you want to go back and listen to that one but even better pop onto audible or your book retailer of choice and just buy the book yourself because it is a very inspiring and certainly for me, it was an educating book.
00:11:56
Speaker
Let's move on to our next message. and And yeah, thank you again, Daisy, for sending us that one in. Our second email comes from Maggie. It comes from Maggie and she says, I saw this story and had a whole host of different emotions. Obviously, it's not great that small children are getting ill, but any kind of negative PR for animal farming, I do want to be spread far and wide for the sake of animals wondered what you guys would make of it There is a link in the show notes to the story. It came from the BBC at the start of May, 10th of May, and I'll give you a bit of a summary now from it.
00:12:38
Speaker
So public health officials at the time of the article were examining 74 cases of cryptosporidium linked to visits to Cowbridge Farm Shop at Marlborough Grange Farm in Cowbridge, Vale of Glamorgan during April.
00:12:56
Speaker
Now for those of you who don't know, cryptosporidium is a parasite often linked to contact with young farm animals that can infect your bowels and cause an unpleasant and sometimes dangerous illness.
00:13:09
Speaker
Public Health Wales said 16 of those affected had been hospitalized for at least one night. The farm shop, which the BBC had approached for comment, voluntarily suspended its feeding and petting sessions and was cooperating fully with the ongoing investigation according to Public Health Wales.
00:13:31
Speaker
Doctors said that a four-year-old who was um featured in the article called Michael had a serious infection and spent three days in hospital. His mum, Margaret,
00:13:42
Speaker
said that she blamed herself for taking Michael to the farm, but said she wished more information had been given to people attending the petting sessions about the potential risks.
00:13:54
Speaker
So thank you, Maggie, for sending that one in. Kate, what's your feeling there? we've We've said it before on the show. We don't want to have this schadenfreude where we're like, oh, look at carnists. getting their comeuppance they they deserve this or whatever um obviously horrible stuff that those 74 people who were reported to have cases have gone through at the same time it does show that animal lag is not the healthiest place to be no indeed well Again, i have to fess up that I was one of those mums that took my kids to a petting farm, you know, because I thought it was a lovely thing to do.
00:14:36
Speaker
Total didn't think about where some of those animals were going to end up. So I can understand. But yeah, at the same time, this Cowbridge farm shop,
00:14:50
Speaker
as well as charging £7.50 to bottle feed a calf, apparently. really? Yeah. I don't couldn't find out how much they charge for a lamb. and But they are actually selling meat in the shop as well. They are selling lambs. They sell turkey at Christmas.
00:15:09
Speaker
I had to trawl through their Instagram thing and and it was quite easy to find the eggs and the butter and the cheese, but it wasn't so easy to find. they They don't put their meat on their Instagram page along with their, come and bottle feed our lambs.
00:15:27
Speaker
um That's an interesting point, actually. I wonder how many farm shops and like petting experiences and things like that. I bet you could do a study where you could look at like actually what proportion of different products and services are they putting on Instagram that is very, well, it's completely visual medium, isn't it?
00:15:48
Speaker
I bet there's a load of farm shops that will... will show the cheeses and the chutneys and and the butters and eggs, but not many cuts of steak. Yeah, yeah in indeed. yeah We've got a farm shop near us that's got deer and um they sell venison in their shop and stuff.
00:16:07
Speaker
But I haven't, I have never, I've never friended them on Instagram for some reason. So I think I'll have a trawl and see. and see just how they present themselves. yeah is And they do have ah bottle feeding lambs and they do have chicks, little hatching chicks.
00:16:27
Speaker
And yeah I do want to say to them, oh, look, you know what happens to the male ones? Because as that's just how wicked I am sometimes inside. But you know. What do you think with with stories like this in terms of like, if if if you were to share a story like this, like a lot of my friends have got young children. i don't know. i just wonder about the tone of kind of sharing it because I think it would come across as a bit of a told you so or a bit of fear mongering. Like, look, this could happen to your child. Like, really, that the statistics are going to be quite low, aren't they? It's going to be quite rare.
00:17:05
Speaker
that instances like this happen. So it's not necessarily sort of proving a point, is it?
Ethics in Sharing Animal Agriculture News
00:17:12
Speaker
But it's just part of the cumulative effect of, look, this is yet another reason why animal ag is a horrible thing. don't know, I could imagine some people sharing it as a, look, I told you so. Yeah, well, it is tempting, I have to say.
00:17:25
Speaker
i don't know, it's just the, you know, the cognitive dissonance as well. You know, it's just... Well, there's a little bit of me that wished that more people would get sick from eating animal products, but, you know, it's really naughty, isn't it?
00:17:39
Speaker
I don't want them to die, obviously, but just a little... Well, I mean, a lot of people are. Yeah. There's quite well quite high instances of of chronic disease, aren't there, that I think we probably could link.
00:17:52
Speaker
Yes, i do know what you mean. You know what mean, from a disease, because, actually... i I think, didn't Melanie Joy go vegan after, at least vegetarian, after getting sick from eating a burger?
00:18:06
Speaker
Is that right? Am I right there? Oh, I don't know. Certainly someone I used to be in a relationship with was eating a lot of vegetarian food with me at the time and in in the house.
00:18:17
Speaker
And then we went out one day and they had they had a beef burger and it was the first meat they'd eaten in a couple of months and they got horrendously ill and then they just went completely vegetarian.
00:18:28
Speaker
We were both vegetarian at the time. So I mean, I reckon there'll be a lot of people who make a switch because of that. Whether it's a permanent one or not is a, different matter Interesting. But the other thing which annoys me, though, so going going also back to the to our last um email is, um you know, getting sick from eating vegetables that have been grown in manure.
00:18:55
Speaker
Because that's the thing, isn't it? So, yeah
Activism & Everyday Actions
00:18:58
Speaker
you know, that just is just not right at all. ah You know, even us vegans get sick from animal ag in that way, you know.
00:19:07
Speaker
Actually, ah have to tell you something I've ahve started doing is just a little... i hate shopping. but just sometimes if I'm feeling particularly evil, I will, ah going up to the, in a supermarket, I sometimes say to ah the checkout person, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:19:28
Speaker
Would you mind just cleaning down your entire checkout for me? You know, because, well, you know, i am vegan and I don't want to be bringing any meat bugs into my house it's because there is oh there's there's there is bird flu you know and swine flu and oh it's going to be the next pandemic so and the look of look of like horror ah know I normally do if somebody before me's like had big blobs of meat sitting on the thing and I just think that is disgusting so you know it's just my my another little form of activism that I enjoy doing yeah
00:20:07
Speaker
and And have you listened to episode 176, Should Vegans Ever Play the Victim Card? um Maybe I haven't. That would have been an interesting quandary for Mark and Chantel who were on that episode with me.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, I like that. I like that activism. Well... Thank you for your email, Maggie, and for your honesty. And yeah, you've you've dragged some honesty out of Kate there and as well in terms of ah guilty thoughts and and and and things like that, indeed.
00:20:37
Speaker
Now, we have got another email that we were going to feature on today's mailbag. We're going to postpone it. It was sent to us um actually less than a week ago, as we record now, from Shane.
00:20:48
Speaker
But it featured something that's going on in Iran at the moment with regards to dogs. And just with the current geopolitical context and the news, less than 24 hours since we are recording this about wider things going on in Iran, it just felt in in bad taste to be bringing that up. So thank you for sending that one in, Shane, and we will feature your question and that story in our next Mailbag episode when Hopefully the yeah latest geopolitical stuff is feeling like distant history.
00:21:22
Speaker
Fingers crossed. Kate, would you like to read the next of our questions? This is one of two. Our last two questions are from within the Enough of the Falafel contributor community.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yep, okay. So from our dear Paul, who would like some nerdy stats re-our-list-ness-ship. Paul also mentions that he heard the Enough of the Falafel theme tune played over a petrol forecourt in Devon recently.
00:21:54
Speaker
It threw him for a moment and he thought, I've not read all the stories yet. So I'm guessing this is just before he was he was due on. So yeah, panic, panic. I think that's just Paul's just general paranoia. When I first read that, I thought he was saying they were playing it like over the PA system at the petrol station. Like they're just beaming our podcast out into petrol stations in Devon. But assume he overheard it.
00:22:21
Speaker
in a car so that's good to know right nerdy stats that should be compulsory ah Nerdy stats. Okay, so um a lot of podcasts don't do this sort of thing. They keep these things close to their chest, but I see no reason to do so. So, okay, so this episode that you're listening to is our 182nd, as you will see, but we are recording this after our first 180 episodes. So the date is going to be slightly out by about a week.
00:22:51
Speaker
We have had just under 16,000 episodes thousand downloads since our inception um a year and three quarters ago September 2023 we started I can give you really nerdy stats about whether our listeners are iOS users or Android users but I think that might have to be an even more niche edition if you are interested more of you are iOS users ah sorry, Android listeners, users.
00:23:21
Speaker
In terms of what what platforms people use, um I would say looking at that pie chart, about 30% of you listen on Spotify and Apple podcasts, probably about 22%, something like that too.
00:23:38
Speaker
um In terms of the times of the day, that people listen out. Well, the detectives amongst you might have noticed that we drop our episodes at 6 a.m.
00:23:51
Speaker
UK time on Mondays and Thursdays. And unsurprisingly, that is when our biggest sort of spikes come. Actually, on Monday, more people listen at seven o'clock than six o'clock. So me dropping the episodes at six o'clock is clearly a bit ambitious for UK-based listeners. But I suppose listeners in ah other parts of the world will be awake at six o'clock UK time.
00:24:13
Speaker
And yeah, the same is true for Thursday. So most people tune in about seven o'clock on a Thursday, but a few of you are there when it drops at six o'clock. In terms of how many folk listen each week, according to Zencaster, which is where we host our podcast,
Listener Demographics & Podcast Reach
00:24:31
Speaker
between 120 and 160 individual people ah tuning in each week at the moment that has risen though since we first started so we are gradually increasing our listenership by about 10% every three to six months increases so that's really nice do want some geography stats Kate
00:24:54
Speaker
Yes, please. Okay, so of our 16,000 downloads, 7,000 of them have come from the UK, so just under 50%. We've had 3,000 from the USA. Wow.
00:25:06
Speaker
we've had three thousand from the usa We've had two and a half thousand from Ireland, 471 in Australia. I'm trying to find a country where we've only had one download.
00:25:18
Speaker
We've had one download in Colombia. We've had one download in Nigeria, Malaysia. We've had one, 26 in China. Kate, I want you to name three countries and I'll tell you how many downloads we've had in those countries.
00:25:32
Speaker
Germany. Germany, we have had 430 downloads. Ooh, that's amazing. God, they're much better at English than I'm but at German, that's for sure. That's all I can say. It might be English people listening in German, to be fair. That's true.
00:25:46
Speaker
ah Okay, two more, two more. Guatemala. Guatemala. Ooh, I don't if we've had any. We've had two in Costa Rica. We've had one in Nicaragua. Wow. We've had four in Mexico and though a little way from Guatemala, Puerto Rico, we have had nine. Oh, that's that's pretty good.
00:26:03
Speaker
Okay, last guess. I should say Spain, shouldn't I? Spain. Surprisingly few in Spain, actually. 260. would have thought we might have had a few more.
00:26:14
Speaker
And in terms of finding places around the world that are an absolute hotbed, it's quite difficult to do. but In the UK, most listeners, the the place with the most listeners, Birmingham, we've had 203.
00:26:30
Speaker
ah Worcester, where me and Paul both will register on, I think we've got the most there, 308. Oh, Milton Keynes, 173. So if you're Milton Keynes listener, well done. Glasgow, 217. Goodness me.
00:26:45
Speaker
Well done, Glasgow. And our episodes, you can actually see... how many downloads there've been for each episode. If you go on to zencaster.com slash vegan week, you don't include the um, that was me just saying um, you can actually see each of the episodes with the number of downloads listed next to it. You won't get that on Spotify or Apple podcast or or anything like that.
00:27:09
Speaker
So you'll see that most of our shows at the moment are getting about 100 downloads. But if you go right back to the beginning, as is often the case with podcasts, people will listen to the first few. So when they first come across a pod,
00:27:23
Speaker
They will listen to a few and then they'll go right back to the beginning. So we've had a similar thing. So our most listened to episode is episode one that has got 206 downloads. But there are a few others dotted in there with randomly high ones, including, Kate, all of our Going Vegan episodes. And you can see who's Going Vegan episode has got the most.
00:27:46
Speaker
Do you want to guess how many people have listened to your Going Vegan episode? Oh, my one. Oh, my one. I'll tell you, it's more than I've listened to mine. Really? Really? Yeah. Really? Oh, I don't know.
00:27:56
Speaker
Three? You've had 106 downloads. For episode 24, a plant-based diet completely transformed my health.
00:28:10
Speaker
You've got 106 downloads. Whereas i episode 90, it all started with a lie, has only had 78. So you are in the lead. So come on, listeners. So far. So far. There's there's at least 28 of you that have listened to Kate's story and not mine. I'm grossly offended. I hope that's enough nerdy stats for you, Paul, and anyone else who is ah is feeling nerdy.
00:28:33
Speaker
If that was not your cup of tea, I do apologize.
Ethical Dilemma: Performing at Certain Venues
00:28:37
Speaker
If anyone wants any more nerdy stats, you can email us directly. Enoughofthefall at gmail.com. I will very,
00:28:44
Speaker
happily respond. Our last question, Kate, comes to us from Anthony. This is a real life scenario. I have not made this up. This was front and center of my life about five days ago.
00:28:58
Speaker
Hot drama on the Morris dancing scene in Shropshire. I'm going give you an insight into one of my hobbies. So I Morris dance with a group and we dance with another group Every single time we dance out, and we will dance with this other a team as well. So we're an all-male side, all men, and the other team is an all-women side, and we always dance together.
00:29:21
Speaker
And we've been arranging some dance outs, as they're called, in the next few months, places where we can go out, dance together, enjoy a few pints and what have you.
00:29:32
Speaker
and we arranged one. I should say the side is based, that the team is based in Shropshire, which as regular listeners to the show will know, is a very agricultural and a very animal agricultural heavy place.
00:29:46
Speaker
And you might have also heard that recently that the North Shropshire Hunt and the South Shropshire Hunt have combined to become the Shropshire Hunt. So you might think, oh, there's not much hunting going on around there. Well, this one pub that we were down to dance at, and we're still down to dance at actually.
00:30:02
Speaker
Someone in the team WhatsApp group who is not vegan, he's not even vegetarian, he said, I'm not going to be going to the dance out at this pub for this reason. And he attached a picture and the picture was a screenshot of a Facebook post from a local animal rights anti-hunting group that showed a picture of someone on a horse doing hunting.
00:30:26
Speaker
And it said, this is so-and-so bloke. He owns such and such a pub. Don't go to this pub. And so this person that I dance with said, you know, even though I'm not vegan, I'm not not animal rightsy, not vegetarian at all, I don't want to dance at this pub because I don't want to give this hunter my custom.
00:30:47
Speaker
And I put on the group too, oh, thanks for bringing that up. I'm not too keen at dancing there myself now. And myself and another one of the Morris dancers, we're the secretary. So I organize the men's group and this other the person organizes the women's group.
00:31:03
Speaker
And we had a private conversation where I said, look I'm sorry if I weighed in a bit too soon with my opinion there. I'm aware that you know, i'm the secretary. I shouldn't really weigh in with my opinions very much. So I'm not going to say anything more on this, but we should be aware that there might be a lot of people who who are not up for dancing at this place now.
00:31:23
Speaker
And her argument, she's vegetarian actually, her argument was, well, let's see what people say, but actually, you know, we if we screened every place that we dance at, then we might find that there's links to animal agriculture, hunting, all sorts of horrible things.
00:31:39
Speaker
Anyway, we wouldn't we wouldn't be able to dance anywhere. And actually, she didn't say this, but I thought this quite soon after. The biggest event that we dance at the year is the Shrewsbury Folk Festival, which is like a big folk festival, like one of the biggest in the country.
00:31:54
Speaker
And that is based at an animal, it's it's an agricultural showground that the event is based at. And I was wondering, Kate, what you thought about this.
00:32:04
Speaker
So I'm assuming that you're not a Morris dancer, but let's um imagine that you are. or that you've got a similar hobby that might take you to different places. Do you think there is anything worse?
00:32:16
Speaker
Or do you think it's any worse dancing at a pub that's owned by a hunter compared to dancing at a venue that's, say, an agricultural showground?
00:32:27
Speaker
Or dancing at a pub that's got a lot of meat items on the menu? Or where do you draw the line? What do you think? That's a tricky one. Can you not wear your vegan runner's t-shirt dancing at the pub in your Morris gear? No, probably not.
00:32:42
Speaker
I mean, the non-amusing answer is no, I can't. Yeah. and It's a difficult one. So you're going to be dancing at an agricultural showground, but it's not an agricultural show. It's ah it's a country like it's Exactly, yeah. It's kind of like the sort of vegan camp out being hosted at a place that's, you know, such and such a farm the rest of the year or it's owned by someone that owns the hunt or whatever. So it's very often they'll do agricultural displays on this showground, but Shrewsbury Folk Festival are hiring this venue for for the bank holiday weekend in August um and presumably, you know, paying them a pretty penny yeah to do so.
00:33:29
Speaker
Well, but like, in a sense, that's worse, isn't it? Yes. I don't know. It's a hard one, isn't it? I mean, I go to runs that are organized i but at the Norwich showground, for example.
00:33:44
Speaker
and you know, as as couple that started off there. I didn't even think about it, actually. but Yeah, I've had that too with with runs. i've i've i I didn't even realise that a half marathon was based at Cheltenham Racecourse. I literally just entered the race, followed the sat-nav,
00:34:06
Speaker
and then turned up at a race course and i was like, oh no, like part of my entry fee will have gone to the Cheltenham race course. Well, I don't know. it's ah That's a toughie, isn't it? ah What are you going to do, Anthony? Are you going to...
00:34:19
Speaker
Well,
00:34:22
Speaker
um I'm not going to dance at the pub that's owned by the the Huntsman because ah first of all, I thought, oh, well, maybe I'll just go and not not buy anything, you know, because normally when we dance at a pub, I'll i'll buy a few drinks because i ah you know I don't actually drink alcohol, but just think, well,
00:34:40
Speaker
you know, you're giving me somewhere to practice my hobby. oh I'll give you a few quid in exchange for some fizzy sugar or whatever. No worries. But I thought, even if I don't, even if I don't buy anything, I'm still kind of laying on entertainment at his venue. Like it just doesn't, just doesn't seem right.
00:34:59
Speaker
And I've got to be honest, it's a bit of a random event in the year. Like if I miss it, it it doesn't matter. Like no one's going to notice anything. But But the Shrewsbury Folk Festival one, that's like a massive event.
00:35:13
Speaker
Do you know what mean? It's like our biggest event of the year. So like that in my head, that that does make a difference. I don't know. I'd like to really, in the cold light of day, examine it and and and think carefully.
00:35:29
Speaker
To my mind, an agricultural showground showground. So the fact that they're making money from the fact that there's a music festival going on there, in a sense, is an argument for saying, well, why don't you just make this a music festival venue? But then that's kind of no different from dancing at a pub that's owned by a hunter, isn't it? Because like, does the same argument not apply there?
00:35:54
Speaker
Like, i'm not I'm not supporting the hunt if I go to that pub to dance. But are you, though, inadvertently? I don't know. Well, i fit do you know what? and i know i know this is a complete cop-out, and I'm going to be honest to listeners here, this is a complete cop-out.
00:36:09
Speaker
But the fact that someone in our group has drawn attention to the fact that it's owned by Hunter, now I just kind of think, well, I can't dance there now. You know, whereas no one's actually raised it about the agricultural showground.
00:36:21
Speaker
So I just... i quietly do that i don't know i'm just following my gut it does it doesn't it doesn't feel wrong to be dancing at that showground because it's i don't know i think i think perhaps if you do support the agricultural showground like you say with a thing which isn't anything to do with agriculture agriculture livestock or anything like that then perhaps that's helping to change it i don't know if that's probably a really lame argument
00:36:52
Speaker
But I just find it slightly amusing that your traditional Morris dancing, you're not happy two It just seems really counterintuitive that somehow this yeah tradition this tradition of Morris dancing is not sitting well with a traditional pub dancing.
00:37:16
Speaker
with a traditional hunt leader. but yeah yeah You can't get any more traditional than that, can you? And yet, you know, yeah. And yet it's very different. So, yeah, I think I would, I wouldn't want to dance and be happy and jolly and and give i'm kind of happy washing to ah a pub that is owned by hunch leader.
00:37:42
Speaker
No, i wouldn't want to do that. But I could see myself dancing an agricultural showground. but perhaps not when there's um it's actually showing animals farm animals no i wouldn't do it then no for sure no no i mean maybe there's an argument when when you were saying it like i was thinking maybe there's an argument go to the go to the pub dance out and just just trash the place you know
00:38:09
Speaker
oh there's an idea morris start yeah goes mad do do you have any like do you have those sticks or something that you yeah yeah absolutely hey yeah absolutely yeah i can trash the toilets and just put only scum hunt for fun stickers up everywhere yeah perhaps you don't actually need to trash it you could just put the stickers up and you know may not be as fun but you know but I mean, eye for an eye, eye for an eye. No, anyway.
00:38:39
Speaker
Well, anyway, thank you for um humoring me, Kate and listeners. I mean, I'd be really, really interested to hear what listeners think to that. If indeed there are any opinions on that, it's um yeah, it's an interesting one when, when it comes to like your hobbies and stuff.
Balancing Activism with Personal Life
00:38:58
Speaker
what mean? Like i i've I've lived a life where I'm going to make myself sound like a really sad victim here and that's not the intention, but like I've lived a life of activism every day, seven days a week for five years running my own cafe and restaurant.
00:39:14
Speaker
And that was too much. I just wasn't able to do that in a sustainable way, like mentally, like there were, you could very easily see yeah things falling apart at the seams for me, for want of a better phrase there. So I think it is important to have something away from your activism that is a hobby that is letting off steam or whatever and that is what believe it or not that is what morris dancing and running is for me those two things but at the same time you can't do that in a way that completely contradicts your morals agreed agreed have you done a recce there have you ever been to that pub have you seen if they've got like
00:39:50
Speaker
stuffed apples on the box or anything. Kate, I danced there last year and no one raised it then. No one raised it last year. And then someone, the the post that um this other the member of the side shared was dated like November, just gone. So I assume it came to light then that he was a member of the hunt and he owned this pub. So perhaps that's why it wasn't raised last year. But yeah, I danced there last year.
00:40:15
Speaker
It was very nice, to be honest. but They do a nice roast. Do they... They do lovely roads. Yeah, do lovely roads. No, the place wasn't teeming with vegan options, nor were there a group of Hunt Sabs planning their next outing, sat in the corner. Surprise, surprise. So so I was going to say, do the Hunt meet there?
00:40:37
Speaker
Looking really sad in their silly clothes. The Hunt do meet in the town that I'm Morris dancing on Boxing Day, and we also do a big performance on Boxing Day.
00:40:50
Speaker
and they are kept very, very separate. And you don't go to the one pub if you're watching the one thing and you don't go to the other pub. So basically what I'm saying is I'd Morris dance with a bunch of lefty liberals who don't want anything to do with the hunt, which is good, isn't it? Yes.
00:41:06
Speaker
Anyway, enough of me and my sordid deviant hobbies. Thank you for listening, everybody. If you would like to do us a so sweet little favor, here's what we'd like to ask of you.
00:41:18
Speaker
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00:41:44
Speaker
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00:41:54
Speaker
Well, thank you very much, Kate. And listeners, in case you want to know how to be involved in our next listener mailbag show, enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com is how to get hold of us.
00:42:06
Speaker
And thanks really so much because it's been great fun sort of reading out your emails and chatting about them. So we have another episode coming out, or Enough of the Falafel, and it's available from Monday. And it will be a Vegan Week episode, which is our usual weekly roundup of the latest vegan and animal rights news.
00:42:30
Speaker
Absolutely. But that is enough of the falafel for this episode. Thank you again, Kate. Thanks everyone for listening. i have been Anthony and you've been listening to Vegan Talk from the Enough of the Falafel Collective.
00:42:46
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsflat.com.
00:43:01
Speaker
And sometimes if you're lucky at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr. Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening and see you next time.
00:43:27
Speaker
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00:43:48
Speaker
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00:44:03
Speaker
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