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179- Ricky Gervais to donate more millions to animal charities
86 Plays10 days ago
But the vegans are still questioning the proportion of his net worth that this equates to. Never satisfied! This week Paul, Dominic & Ant look at this story, as well as eight other snippets from the last 7 days that have ramifications for animals and/or vegans in general.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jun/05/uk-mps-call-for-ban-on-bottom-trawling-in-protected-marine-areas
https://www.greenqueen.com.hk/lab-grown-cultivated-meat-islam-can-muslims-eat-halal-ruling/
https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/italy-new-laws-animal-cruelty.html
https://www.technologynetworks.com/diagnostics/news/low-fat-vegan-diet-with-soy-reduces-hot-flashes-in-menopausal-women-400452
https://penncapital-star.com/wildlife-outdoors/animal-rights-group-reveals-illicit-market-for-ivory-and-endangered-animals-in-pennsylvania/
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/06/04/president-trumps-budget-proposal-threatens-64000-wild-horses/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/badger-cull-licence-area-2025-b2761061.html
https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2025/06/04/awful-odours-and-immense-suffering-plans-for-new-160000-bird-chicken-farm-near-telford-spark-backlash/
https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/ricky-gervais-aims-to-beat-1-9-million-animal-charity-donation/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Dominic, Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Enough of the Falafel'
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for vegan and animal rights news from the last seven days. I'm Anthony, joining me today are Dominic and Paul, but that is enough of the falafel, it is time for Vegan Week.
00:00:16
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used for. Brrr! protein take your lab grown meat elsewhere we're not doing that in the state of florida what about your protein and what about your iron levels should i call the media and say hi sorry they're arguing like oh poor woe is me oh no hang on a minute you always pick the
00:00:43
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you didn't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:55
Speaker
No I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello welcome to the
Misconceptions in Veganism
00:01:05
Speaker
show. Thank you all for being here.
00:01:07
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is Paul. This show, if you've not listened to it before, covers the news. We look at about 10 or so items relating to vegan and animal rights news. Hello, hello, hello, my name is Dominic, I'm the person on that little bit of music at the start who puts the letter R in protein about a billion trillion times. It's great to be here, but that's enough of the falafel.
00:01:33
Speaker
Let's hear what's been going on in the news this week.
00:01:38
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
Environmental Issues: Bottom Trawling & Marine Awareness
00:01:51
Speaker
Okay, our first story from this week comes from the UK, where Paul, Dominic and myself are recording from. We'll try and cover bits from across the world, but we are starting in the UK, where The Guardian have told us that an influential group of MPs, specifically the Environment Committee, they're calling for a ban on bottom trawling, which sounds sounds a bit rude, really, doesn't it? We're talking specifically about marine trawling.
00:02:20
Speaker
matters here and the practice of dredging the bottom of the sea in order to go fishing but also basically getting anything else that is growing there sat there or anything else in between the yeah UK Parliament's Environmental Audit Committee called for a ban to encompass dredging and mining as well as the bottom trawling of fish in the 900,000 square kilometres covered by nearly 180 marine protected areas. And despite the name, these areas are actually open for many sorts of fishing, including this bottom trawling um and this practice of dragging huge nets across the seabed to scoop up basically anything in their path is is obviously
00:03:07
Speaker
not good news. So it's it's great that it's being drawn attention to. And like we say, so-called influential MPs are putting their name out there backing the ending of this practice.
00:03:21
Speaker
Dominic, I couldn't quite work out whether this was ah a win for animals or not. I mean, it's it's drawing attention to quite sort of mindless practices. so i So I suppose that's good, but it's definitely not people saying you shouldn't be fishing, is it?
00:03:38
Speaker
No, it's not people saying that you shouldn't be fishing. It's um it's talk, and talk is better than not talk, I suppose. ah So often things that might happen in Parliament, they're they're brought into news stories in wording that makes it sound f***ing.
00:03:56
Speaker
far more likely than than it is to actually happen. So I don't know. I don't know. um I'm optimistic. I'm optimistic. I think that the topic of oceans and fish is really misunderstood by a lot of people, including myself. I remember my journey to veganism was really, really slow.
00:04:16
Speaker
And I was someone who transitioned from omnivore to pescatarian before going vegetarian, then vegan, really, really slow. And I remember, I remember all of the stuff I used to say that was based on no evidence at all. Oh, well, fish are fine, aren't they? Fish are fine. They're just swimming around in the sea.
00:04:37
Speaker
They're fine. It's different from farmed animals. It's different. And, uh, You know, i' had no evidence for saying that. I mean, of course, fish farms are very much a thing.
00:04:48
Speaker
But also, as this news story brings to light, there's there's all the other destruction the ah that these practices can can have in the ocean. So I do think for folks like how I used to be, with the views I used to have, reading something like this in as mainstream an article as The Guardian is a very good, enlightening thing indeed.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's, as the article mentions, this is coming out at the same time as there is um the film Ocean by Sir David Attenborough is out. So it's it's kind of like, you know, where we're putting the message out there in lots of different mediums. It makes makes it more likely that folk are going to come on board and and start to change their behaviours, isn't it? More than if they're just hearing it from the government.
00:05:35
Speaker
ah Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.
Health Studies: Vegan Diets & Menopause
00:05:37
Speaker
but Let's move on to our next story. Now, we we try to have a cross-section of guests on our show. you know We happen to be three men for this episode.
00:05:47
Speaker
And so, unfortunately, it's going to fall to Paul to comment on a story that is talking about a low-fat vegan diet with soy reducing hot flashes in menopausal women. we We've asked Paul to come up with some sort of salient points on this. So let's let's come up with the facts and see if see if Paul can sound educated on the matter. This comes to us from Technology Network's Diagnostics.
00:06:12
Speaker
Oh, it says the original story is from the Menopause Society. So definitely coming from people who ought to know what they're talking about. ah This is a secondary analysis of clinical trial data showing that menopausal women following a low-fat vegan diet supplemented with soybeans experience significant reductions in body weight and hot flash severity even when consuming highly processed plant-based foods. We've had stories like this the last few weeks. is basically saying as long because as it's plant-based it almost doesn't matter what it is though I'm i'm sure we'd
00:06:47
Speaker
we'd say that highly processed foods is probably not the best thing to have if you're looking for the best health outcomes. Some key data, if you're interested in the data from it, um after 12 weeks, the vegan group showed a 92% reduction in severe hot flashes and lost an average of 3.6 kilograms in body weight, whereas the control group showed no significant change in hot flashes and just a 0.2 kilogram dec decrease in weight.
00:07:17
Speaker
Paul, I'm always interested in the animal rights um perspective from even health related stories. And I guess it's good for animals if some positive stuff is out there about soy.
00:07:30
Speaker
Like soy can often be seen as as the bad guy, I guess. But I suppose too, like people can people can start following a plant-based diet for all manner of reasons. It's in a sense, the animals don't care, do they? Why people are doing it. And we've got to take this as some good PR for plant-based foods, I think.
00:07:46
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. I did have to look up hot flashes to start with, I have to say, because I wondered what that was. But thankfully, it's just an Americanism of hot flashes. So that was a relief. So I learned something there.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, this this particular article is a said like one-minute read so it's trying to some summarize ah a piece of research literature and the scientific work scientific study I guess.
00:08:09
Speaker
I've not had a chance to look at the main study but I guess that's probably what we should really be doing to look at the detail here. Interesting that it was a secondary analysis so this is basically data that's been gathered by other people for another purpose and then other people have used that for this particular bit of work, totally totally totally fine, quite efficient, I suppose you could say.
00:08:30
Speaker
um But we don't really know from this article particularly, I think, what the sample is. there is a of you follow a link in the article, you can get to the original article, which I've just done, and it says there were 84 participants.
00:08:43
Speaker
Overall, so 42 in each group. Yeah, not a massive sample, I guess, by any stretch of the imagination. So worth bearing that in mind, I guess. Yeah, i guess the main thing that the yeah study does try and draw out is that we've got this suggestion that basically ultra-processed food is okay. so There's plenty of studies, I think, showing that you've got a low-fat vegan diet being very good for weight loss and reduction of hot flashes slash hot flashes.
00:09:09
Speaker
But this seems to be sort saying, hey, and if it's ultra-processed as well, the stuff you're hearing a lot about at the moment that's quite bad, you're still okay. I'm a little bit sceptical of that, but that's just my take on it. Because obviously you've got things like less fibre and less essential vitamins in there, which...
00:09:24
Speaker
you know I think from an overall health perspective, it doesn't sound like doesn't sound like the yeah the ideal scenario, should we say. But yeah, I think it overall, you know it's promising. I'd want to read the ah full article a bit more, as I'm sure people would, especially females. you know Obviously, they're the ones that suffer with this. So it's something that certainly needs to be looking to. I think in terms of the study as well, I'd really like to know, were they in some kind of facility and fed this diet? Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
was were they given a menu recommendation to follow and because it's like well what's the scope for these things people cheating and maybe varying from the recommendation so i don't know how how controlled the control groups were effectively i'd want to know that as well yeah it looks like they were they were asked to follow certain diets but it would be there was an assumption that people would just would do as they were told so like you say yeah There's scope for things to not go quite as you want there. We all know what happens when people try try and follow diets. they don't yeah
00:10:21
Speaker
It's not necessarily rigorous rigorous, is it? But anyway, but you know I sound like I'm criticising it, but sounds very interesting. But yeah, we'd need more deep reading, I think, to be really sure what it's telling us. So perhaps the readers would want to do that.
00:10:32
Speaker
if it is of interest to them. We'll take that as ah as a positive, like I say, for a positive bit PR for plant-based food. And well done, Paul. I think you've dodged the bullets there and the and the the traps that were waiting for you, commenting on a story about menopause or hot flashes.
Cultivated Meat: Religious and Ethical Perspectives
00:10:48
Speaker
So let's now ask Dominic to comment on something that leading Islamic authorities have said last week. Why are asking Dominic to do that? You might be asking, well, an interesting article article from Green Queen who we've often taken stories from, they are reporting that, quote, leading Islamic authorities have approved the consumption of cultivated meat for Muslims, but they've said this is only if certain conditions are met.
00:11:18
Speaker
These conditions would be that the source cells for cultivated meat must come from animals permissible to eat And be slaughtered according to Islamic law. So obviously no pork products would be allowed regardless of whether it's cultivated meat or not.
00:11:34
Speaker
ah The second condition is that animal cells must be cultured in a medium free from prohibited substances like blood. Now, that might seem like, a well, of course, that's going to be the case.
00:11:44
Speaker
um However, fetal bovine serum is an oft-cited or an oft-used medium for cultivating cultivated meat in. So that would be that will be off the menu too. And then the final condition would be that products are developed under trustworthy regulatory supervision. And obviously that set of hoops to jump through is is up for contention as to who decides what is trustworthy. But, Dominic, big implications in that two billion people in the world identify as Muslim. If the powers that be and in that community say that cultivated meat
00:12:26
Speaker
is okay, potentially that's saving a lot of animals. if I mean, there's several hypotheticals that need to line up there, aren't there? But in theory, we can see why it's it's featured in the news and why some folks certainly might be thinking that that's a potential good outcome for animals.
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, and I've got so very, very much I would like to say on this matter. um And I think the bullet point version is, yeah, you're you're correct. And, you know, yeah, bullet point version. We've had previous ah falafels where we talked about cultivated meat. What do we think? What do we think?
00:13:00
Speaker
Paul has just this moment had a big, long talk about processed foods, that's a big discussion. um If you're listening to Falafel for the first time, then I'm really aware that we are three men, three white men who happen to be here. And I've been really proud that Falafel is a collective of people of different genders, different ethnicities. It just so happens that this week we got three ah white blokes chatting. I happen to be a man who is gay.
00:13:31
Speaker
And if you don't mind me going off on a little bit of tangent, I'll bring it back to this point. I'll bring it back to this point. I live in a city, I live in Manchester, and I'm out as a gay man. like Everybody knows that I'm gay.
00:13:42
Speaker
And I've dated different people, and I've dated more than one ah Muslim man over recent times. And you know these have been people who who haven't been out. So when I've been out on the street you know with someone not obvious that we're we're together,
00:14:00
Speaker
You know, you see you see the levels of Islamophobia. I've seen the levels of it, the the levels of racism that, you know, it's horrible, horrible thing. Horrible, horrible, horrible. I've seen the huge kindness that ah the the Muslims ah ah do for for huge, huge organisations.
00:14:19
Speaker
However, I've also seen for for people about my age, taking a religious leader's view, particularly the view gays are bad, is like, you know, a really damaging thing. To bring this back to point, I think that i with my experience and my knowledge of my privilege, take exception to any religious leader saying, this is OK, this isn't OK.
00:14:44
Speaker
Do you know what? like I am vegan. But I don't follow a vegan rule book. I am vegan. that I am vegan. Because each separate thing, whether it comes to honey or milk or eggs or wearing silk, I've looked at it individually. And this is just me. This is just me. If I wanted to say, hey, Paul, hey, Ant, I've looked into silkworms. And you know what? I don't care about that. I'm going to wear some silk.
00:15:11
Speaker
Well, I wouldn't be vegan. I'd be inaccurate. But that would be something that I could decide. The point I'm making, I'm not vegan because anyone's told me to be vegan.
00:15:22
Speaker
I'm vegan because I've looked at each of the points. So I'm just really wary of any. I don't give a monkey's what the the whether it's a Christian religious leader, whether it's a Buddhist religious leader, any religious leader. I just think, who are they?
00:15:38
Speaker
who are they? Which is a really subjective view that I'm taking, a really subjective view. I work a lot in poetry with younger Muslims and what I'm observing and what The Guardian report to be the case as well is that younger folks seem far more relaxed in being a member of religion and taking on everything with a pinch of salt. To give an example, there are plenty of young Muslims who identify as Muslims who go to schools where people
00:16:10
Speaker
LGBT stuff is taught and they've got no problem with the gays. No problem. They're like, yeah, that bit. Just in the same way as like, you know, there might be Catholics who've been taught a certain thing and are like, yeah, that's good.
00:16:23
Speaker
That's good. Use critical thinking. So that's my response. And what a long waffly thing that I've said. I just think I, Dominic Berry, i don't care what these people have to say. I guess if it leads to less meat, great.
00:16:39
Speaker
But When I have dated Muslims, do you know what? They've made curries from scratch. You know, they've been really happy eating vegan with me. ah And, you know, it's brilliant making stuff from vegetables, making stuff with pulses.
00:16:54
Speaker
Surely that's more, more good. That's more good, isn't it? Cook with a bit spinach, that's more good, let's do that. Yeah. It's really interesting, isn't it? Because, yeah, we we've already said once in there in the show, like, the animals don't care how how their oppression ends, so long as it ends.
00:17:15
Speaker
But actually, yeah we yeah, we're human beings and we're... we're aware of different different social and cultural elements to this. And I completely agree with what you're saying.
00:17:26
Speaker
We've got a vegan talk show coming out in the next few weeks where we're talking about, well, is there such a thing as the vegan movement? Because actually, like you say, There's not, um you know, Lord so-and-so sat on the high seat of veganism commanding us all or what to do. where We're individuals who've made our minds up in a certain way. And personally, spoiler alert, I really like that. I'm really proud to be part of a movement that that views things in that slightly anarchic way. But actually, there's many billions of people in the world who don't necessarily live that way.
00:17:59
Speaker
So if someone's going to tell them to that it's okay to not use animals in in certain conditions, then Yeah, I'm probably going to take that, but it's ah oh it's an interesting one, isn't it? Certainly a multifaceted story there. Lots lots more. i I dare say we could have a whole episode on that particular story, but we will move on to one that is perhaps a bit more clear cut.
Legislation: Wildlife Trafficking and Animal Protection
00:18:22
Speaker
If you follow the link in the show notes to a story from Pennsylvania Capital Star, you will see quite an upsetting image of a taxidermied giraffe head that is being cut from its body at the shoulders has been found on sale for $6,000 in a shop in Pennsylvania.
00:18:42
Speaker
Animal rights groups have revealed the illicit market for ivory and endangered animals in the state and state lawmakers are proposing legislation to target animal trafficking beyond the reach of federal authorities.
00:18:59
Speaker
State Representative Leanne Kruger says that Pennsylvania has a responsibility to fight illicit sales that fuel poaching of at-risk animals abroad.
00:19:09
Speaker
Her legislation, House Bill 994, would ban the sale of covered, endangered animal parts within the state. Paul, we were talking before we started recording about some direct action, if you like, some direct interference that that you made that has stopped some animal exploiting happening near you. My first thought when I saw this story was there's a great big giraffe's half half of its body on sale in the shop. How many people have walked past that and not done anything and not said anything and obviously brilliant and that some people now are saying hang on this is not okay we need to confront this but
00:19:49
Speaker
I don't know, it really riled me seeing this, just how ambivalent and passive people must have been. I mean, I don't know what Pennsylvania is like as a state. And, um, obviously we have a lot of stateside listeners and I shouldn't make generalizations. I'm not saying that the whole, you know, the whole state of Pennsylvania is is full of ambivalent ne'er-do-wells who don't care about animals, but the number of people that will have just seen this and not reported it, it's, um,
00:20:15
Speaker
It's great that it finally is getting its due or or hopefully anyway if it if the bill goes through. Yeah. I mean, reading this story, it's one of these like real macabre stories. Again, two questions come to mind for me. It's like, one, who's buying this shit?
00:20:29
Speaker
And two, white why but is this not banned already as ah as a thing? But... Yeah, you read into the story a little bit more and it's clear, um you know, the law works in weird ways all way around the world. But it ultimately looks like, I think you alluded to it earlier on, Ant, that so there's no sort of federal law here, which we might experience this country because it would be a a national law typically to ban this sort of thing as it is for ivory but it looks like thiss kind of state legal loopholes here so essentially it's illegal to sell these things between states but not within the state itself so you think well how did how did this bill get how did that law get made it it sounds like someone's gone
00:21:10
Speaker
let's design a law that looks like we're doing something, but won't really do anything so we can carry on. That's how I read it. Anyway, this looks like a nonsense situation. So that's the score with it. Essentially what you're looking for here is each state to come up with a ah position themselves. So, so yeah, this one basically refers to some pretty tragic figures as well. Stuff that I guess I thought had improved, but yeah there's a reminder here that ah every year,
00:21:36
Speaker
10 to 15,000 elephants are killed in Africa alone for ivory. You know, I didn't realise it was still that much. I must admit, yeah I kind of thought this was all not in the past, but was reduced. I i knew yeah knew there was quite a lot of illegal poaching still, but I thought, i didn't think it was that many still, but that's mental, isn't it, to think that amount of animals are still being killed just for just for ivory.
00:21:58
Speaker
Absolutely mad. I was surprised that there are that many elephants in Africa. Well, yeah. To be honest, i mean, my my ignorance is showing, but like 10,000 to 15,000 are being killed every year. I mean, yeah goodness. yeah Yeah, I agree. I didn't even if you think there was that many, to be honest. But yeah, I mean, I presume those figures are right, but we probably have to check that, I guess. so So yeah, basically, there was...
00:22:20
Speaker
A range of animal parts found in in some of these stores. What came out for me was that um there seems to be a bit of a ah fudge going on by these antique dealers. So basically saying that many of the items are mislabeled as bone or mammoth ivory, which is legal to sell.
00:22:39
Speaker
he kind of think, oh, I think these antique dealers, you know, they know their stuff. That sounds, that sounds to me like a very, it's not very, it's not very Henry Sandon, is it? It's kind of like a very, and so that's a purposeful way of trying to flog illegal shit um and make money out of it. So does sound like there's some naughtiness going on there with the antique dealers for sure. It it did strike me that that there could be quite a ah good line of activism from somebody that that doesn't want to,
00:23:08
Speaker
you know, i don't know, hunt sab or or go out on the streets and protest. You could just walk around antique shops. It says here that of the stores and auctions investigated, nearly 60% had endangered wildlife products for sale. All you've got to do is walk around a shop and then send an email, isn't it? Like that's, I do like the idea of that being a covert form of activism for somebody who's maybe a bit more shy or... It's kind of more like a secret shopper, isn't it, really, when you think it? So it's it's kind of one of things you get vouchers for. So yeah, it'll be fine.
00:23:38
Speaker
um I found that a bit earlier on. 13 states and Washington, D.C. passed similar legislation so far. So still, you know, still some way to go. i get i guess the good news to end on for this one is that ah the bill did pass the House Judiciary Committee by 25 to 1 vote. So very, ah pretty very conclusive.
00:23:57
Speaker
um And now waits consideration on the House floor, presume that's House of Representatives or the State House of Representatives. I should know I did American politics. I can't remember how works. um So it looks like good news or or good news on the horizon.
00:24:09
Speaker
But yeah, I think just think, what are the other states doing? That's my question. Absolutely. Absolutely. frustrating to see the legal systems working in these clunky ways that leave as as well as many humans as victims.
00:24:22
Speaker
animals as victims too, but let's cheer ourselves up straight away by a story from Italy where the legal system is starting to work a bit more in the favour of animals.
00:24:34
Speaker
ah This is the news from wantedinrome.com. What a great name for a website. They're saying that Italy is approving tough new laws to prevent cruelty to animals. Well, we'll discuss how tough we think they are.
00:24:47
Speaker
This was dated from the 30th of May when the Italian Senate definitively approved a bill that introduces tougher penalties for animal abuse, including steeper fines and longer jail sentences. It was approved by the lower house last November, and it also introduces new crimes relating to the mistreatment of animals.
00:25:10
Speaker
Under the new laws, those who kill an animal can be imprisoned for six months to four years. That's bad news for people who work in abattoirs, isn't it? um And face a fine of up to 60,000 euros if the act is committed using torture or deliberately prolonging the animal's suffering. For context, before this happened, the maximum prison sentence was three years, so that is potentially up by a year, and a fine of up to €30,000, so up to doubling that.
00:25:43
Speaker
um In addition, penalties may be further increased by a third If one of three aggravating circumstances apply, if the acts are committed in the presence of minors, against multiple animals, or if footage of the crime is shared online.
00:25:59
Speaker
Another fundamental change... And similar to Spain, I want to say this happened in Spain within the last 18 months, is it is now illegal to tether a dog to a chain outside.
00:26:13
Speaker
Dominic, you've had a look at this one on the face of it. Good to see a headline saying it's not good to abuse animals and we're going to punish you more than we were before. what's What's your response to this?
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds really very good indeed. And yeah, of course, we can all, as vegans, feel frustrated and wish that the world went vegan overnight.
00:26:37
Speaker
And I've certainly personally felt very disheartened, at all kinds of news stories that I've heard. But I think this does sound like a really good step in the right direction. And we mentioned many times that we come on this show just as like a group of people. We're not professing to be experts. So I learned what's going on in the world from coming on and being a member of this podcast. so when I read this story, it really lifted my heart. And know I know, I've never been to Italy. I don't know a lot about Italy.
00:27:08
Speaker
i know that when you go for Italian food, it's not always the best for vegans because it's all very cheese heavy in my experience. So yeah, um this is this is this is wonderful. This was surprise. I wasn't expecting this from an Italian news story. So yeah, what a very big hooray. And I tell you what, another big hooray. if you um sort of read into this article and look into some of the organisations and names ah mentioned in it,
00:27:41
Speaker
it ah It mentions the first signatory of this bill was an Italian MP called Michaela Vittoria Brambilla, who is a vegan MP, animal rights activist, businesswoman, and she just looks kick-ass. And I just love that happening all about, you know,
00:28:01
Speaker
vegans who were out there doing their thing and seem like they've got the ah whole package making me feel better about my ah inadequacies thinking oh it's all right we've got Michaela on our side so yeah Michaela and all those who voted that through right final story before we hear Dominic and Paul's pick for the week we're going to keep it political ah but the needle is swinging back towards something that we're not so happy about this comes to us from the animal reader who we often take
Wildlife Conservation Challenges: Horses and Badgers
00:28:31
Speaker
stories from. Check their website out if you haven't before.
00:28:34
Speaker
President Trump's budget proposal threatens 64,000 wild horses, reads the headline. So for some more detail, the Trump administration's 2026 budget proposals could lead to the killing of 64,000 wild horses and burrows. I'm assuming that is to do with donkeys. um The proposal includes significant changes to the Bureau of Land Management's wild horse and burrow program.
00:29:04
Speaker
This um is because the budget cuts are reducing funding by over 25%, so taking it from $143 million dollars down to $100 million. dollars Additionally, it removes the long-standing ban on the killing of healthy wild horses and burrows And it also includes their sale for commercial slaughter. So this this isn't an ambiguous loophole. This seems like a very definite thing that is happening. Wild Horse Roundups are one of the Bureau of Land Management's
00:29:40
Speaker
main methods of quote managing wild horse populations it often involves chasing horses with helicopters into traps or corrupt corrals they then put the horses into government holding facilities which are obviously stressful and dangerous for horses especially newborns and older animals and it it now seems that that there's nothing stopping them being killed either Paul, it's it's difficult to see anything all positive from this.
00:30:11
Speaker
Is there any glimmer of hope that you can see or is it just one? Yeah, I think with this one, I mean, it's not in play yet, but the door does seem to be well and truly open on on the yeah likely commercialisation of potentially killing these animals. I suppose eight hope, I mean, I don't know if this is one of the yeah lovely Elon Musk, those cuts, but if it was then You know, those might start changing soon given what's happened over there.
00:30:38
Speaker
And of course, with the Trump administration, the main thing that's permanent is that there's always change with his decisions. So it might change, but with his money involved and the administration doesn't have a great record of animal welfare, obviously driven by profits. If there's profit to be made out of this, then sadly, it's probably going to be ah a sad end for the for the horses.
00:31:01
Speaker
I guess the thing to look at, though, ah that that struck me was there's still, I mean, you look at the current situation you've referred to, andmp so the the current situation with the rounding up he is certainly not great either.
00:31:14
Speaker
And I was quite, I was a bit confused about what actually happens here because i don't really say. So when they're when they're put into these holding facilities, technically and're not that wild at that point, I'm not quite sure what happens at that point. So are they are any of them killed? Is it like a castration or are they just kept separate to prevent mating?
00:31:33
Speaker
It doesn't seem to be very clear. I don't if you saw anything else in that, it just seems that they're taken in and that's it. That's all I could read. Yeah, I mean, my my inference was that actually with this proposed law change, then I'm i'm sure they would just be euthanised in there. I mean, a a representative from the American Wild Horse Conservation Group pointed out that there's actually more of these wild horses in these holding pens than there are actually in the wild So it seems like they just they just sit there, which presumably is far more costly than if they were just roaming around in the wild. But perhaps some of our American listeners might know more about this than us and can can inform us. But um I did think it was it was good to see that there was very salient points put forward by this American wild horse conservation project.
00:32:23
Speaker
group and that there is is some resistance to this. But um like you say, unfortunately, I think money might end up do the talking here. But so there is hope. It's not it's not through yet. So um we'll keep a close eye on this and hopefully report on some more positive developments in the future.
00:32:42
Speaker
Well, that's the end of the first six stories that we're featuring on the show today. After this very short break, we are going to be asking Dominic and Paul to give us their picks for the week. And they are both relating to the good old English countryside.
00:33:04
Speaker
Okay, Dominic, why don't you start us off? You're going to talk to us about badgers, badger culling, and it's not good news, is it? No, it's not good news, Ant. It's a story from The Independent, so very mainstream source talking about a badger cull expansion being given the go-ahead, and that's against the advice of a of our own science chief. So the government officials are giving the go ahead for this to happen in September.
00:33:34
Speaker
Natural England is believed to have authorised supplementary culls for this year in nine areas from Derbyshire to Wiltshire as part of a programme that began in 2013 to curb badger populations in an effort to tackle bovine tuberculosis.
00:33:50
Speaker
ah So then there's going to be even further areas from the West Country to Northamptonshire and Cumbria. Natural England's Director of Science, Dr Peter Brotherton, recommended to his own officials that no supplementary culls be carried out this year, saying there was no justification for the culling The Badger Trust and the Wild Justice Organisation, jointly led by Chris Packham, have won permission for a full judicial review of the policy. It's feared that the latest culls could mean 5,000 or more adult and cubs will be shot.
00:34:29
Speaker
In its manifesto, Labour promised to end what it dubbed the ineffective badger cull. So Labour are not delivering on that. Not at all, not at all.
00:34:40
Speaker
The Conservative government had pledged to phase out culling, replacing it with badger inoculations and better cattle testing.
00:34:51
Speaker
Nigel Palmer, chief executive of the Badger Trust, says that 95% of bovine dogs, of bofie tuberculosis is transmitted from cattle to other cattle the decision is utterly indefensible he said so anthony we've talked quite a lot about badgers on previous shows haven't we what's your reaction to this current story but for for me i think the the real heartbreaker here And goodness knows how this chap is feeling at the moment. But like Natural England's own director of science, Dr. Peter Brotherton, has said that this shouldn't happen.
00:35:32
Speaker
And then the organization just just goes against it it. It just makes you think. Well, what's the point then? You know, if yeah what's the point having a director of science? If you're literally going to go against it, what strikes me? I mean, I'm i'm not very well versed in badger stuff compared to many, many people. There's a lot of people who who know lots about it and and also have a lot invested in in one outcome or another. But it seems like there's lots of strident opinions out there
00:36:06
Speaker
But also what seems very clear is that there is not a clear purpose for culling. it it's It seems like it's really not clear cut.
00:36:17
Speaker
And as this article points out, in 12 years, there's been nearly a quarter of a million animals culled, which for something that we're not quite sure whether it's working or not,
00:36:29
Speaker
I mean, obviously, from an animal rights point of view, we're going to say, well, whether it's working or not, it's it's still not a moral thing to do. So we shouldn't be doing it. But if there's no conclusive proof that it's doing anything effective, then for nearly a quarter of a million beautiful, rare animals to...
00:36:45
Speaker
lose their lives just seems like a ah national source of shame myself. They are beautiful animals. like They are rare animals. And when we compare this to a few stories back, we were talking about Italy and the Italian attitude to... ah you know, cruelty to to animals. I mean, the reason that I was attracted to this story before I moved to where I now live in Manchester, I grew up very rurally and badgers are a common sight in the area where I grew up. And
00:37:16
Speaker
It's wonderful see a badger. It's a beautiful, magical experience. I was also really aware of the delight that was taken by the people who would who would kill badgers. And yeah it's just just really, really horrible.
00:37:33
Speaker
It's no understatement say. It's a big reason I went vegan, just seeing how animals who are just getting on with their lives can be treated. It's it's really...
00:37:45
Speaker
really awful and yeah when the um statistics from so many sources are not backing up the decision at all horrible horrible horrible yeah something i wasn't aware of until probably about six to nine months ago um place where i work in in in worcester where where paul lives is a woodland and we do have badges um coming there intermittently we did find find a dead one it was about a year and a half ago and it really looked like it had been poisoned.
00:38:17
Speaker
And something I didn't realise was that National Rail or Network Rail, I think it is, will commission the extermination of badgers because they will damage the train lines, which is, that's that's a really difficult one.
00:38:33
Speaker
So here where we've got things about bovine TB, 95% of bovine TB is transmitted cattle to cattle. So blaming it on badgers is completely irrational and ridiculous and, and, and should stop where you've got badgers who just following their natural behavior, where it's damaging, uh, you know, a, a,
00:38:56
Speaker
international well across national railway line that's a lot more tricky and i'm certainly not advocating that that they therefore should be killed and should be poisoned i'm not saying that but i can see why you that's a harder situation to work out and of course there are still things that you could do but to bring it back to bovine tb there's so much evidence to say this is a ridiculous solution this is a ridiculous way to respond to it and goodness only knows why it continues in the face of scientific advice too yeah yeah definitely definitely i know what i'm gonna tell you say uh is a hard sell for maybe non-vegans who are may be tuning into falafel for the first time or whatever but we talk a lot about speciesism about the idea that you know sentient life is ah is a precious thing and you know I was criticising all the religions earlier. Remember that, remember that. Well, I studied a bit of Buddhism for a while and I really, you know, was really ah taken with the kind of Buddhist thing about don't harm anything, don't harm insects, don't harm spiders.
00:40:02
Speaker
I was really, really taken with that. And if that's your belief, then yeah, you know, you wouldn't say, oh, little human children ah going and playing games on the train tracks. Well, just run them over, escape. terminate them you wouldn't say that if it was if it was children who were causing the damage and and you know my personal take is that there are other things that could be done to uh to stop badges damaging train to tracks there are other things that could be done for starters not having cattle farms there's a solution way let's do that
00:40:38
Speaker
Radical stuff, radical stuff. Yeah, thank you for that one, Dominic.
Community Activism: Opposition to Chicken Farms
00:40:43
Speaker
Now, for Paul's pick for the week, we are going to be focusing on some people in Shropshire who don't want their countrysides to have certain animals in it. I mean, what why why on earth?
00:40:55
Speaker
Not Paul, we were commenting earlier on there. African elephants. i've I've looked it up, actually, while we've been talking. ah Last year, the estimate was that there are 415,000 African elephants still alive.
00:41:09
Speaker
So why the people of Shropshire not wanting 160,000 more chickens near their home? what Why could they possibly not want such a thing, Paul?
00:41:20
Speaker
Well, exactly, exactly. Well, it's not because they're vegan, unfortunately. But yeah, I mean, I pick this story as it's reasonably local. It's in Telford, which isn't too far from from Worcester in the scheme of things.
00:41:32
Speaker
And we, I think we've talked about similar applications before in the past, and they do seem to pop up, especially in this part of the country. There's a lot of chicken farms in this sort of Midlands type area.
00:41:44
Speaker
And I think predominantly as well, quite a lot in Norfolk and Lincoln as well. So yeah, this is a mega, i guess a mega farm, if you'd call it that. u So huge um facility for this number of birds. The residents have raised objections to this. So it's quite interesting reading through the article. which This is a local paper, so the journalistic article. Content is always a bit questionable, but basically they've listed off their objections and there's this stuff about ah impacting people with awful odors, smell, and could leave people feeling sick.
00:42:23
Speaker
Then they mention ah there's the pollution as well and with all all the um manure and and and ah liquid waste that comes off of that. And then, again, this is the this could be the paper, but it might be the people as well. But they go, oh, and it might be cruelty chickens as well. So it's kind of like, oh, yeah, there's the animal there's the animal stuff as well. So it's a bit NIMBYism. It's quite funny, actually, because there was one ah one of these being um replied for literally a couple of miles away from where I live.
00:42:50
Speaker
And then we leafleted the houses around there and said, object if you haven't already, if you're not aware of it. And also, best thing you can do, go vegan. You won't have to have have these chicken farms.
00:43:01
Speaker
Because when you say that to people, they're like, well, no, I like chicken. We're going, well, that's what you got here. that's this You're driving it. So like, if you don't want it, don't eat it. if So it's people are going, oh, no, but i that's all right. This is on my doorstep, though. I don't want to see it.
00:43:16
Speaker
It's bit like the whole, i don't want I don't want to see into a slaughterhouse, but i want to eat meat. It's kind of exactly the same sort of thing ultimately, isn't it? So i it still ah in-flight it's that's probably a bad phrase, but in-flight sort of case, I think, at the moment. I think by the time the ah episode goes out, the consultation...
00:43:35
Speaker
period will have finished. But interestingly... have to wait quite a bit, don't you? Yes. I'm a member of the Shropshire but Vegans and Vegetarians Facebook group, and actually they were quite actively putting out this consultation and encouraging...
00:43:52
Speaker
people to send in a template to object and we've featured on the show before it's sometimes it only takes a few hundred emails to stop the progress of things not to get people's hopes up i'm just uh stating the facts there so you you don't know actually what whether um there could be enough NIMBYism or well-coordinated activism to actually stop this. Did you see the bit about some the the the developers and the the planning application, their response to the thing about, um oh, it's going to smell awful?
00:44:26
Speaker
They say, oh, don't worry. Yes. We're going to take all the manure down the road to Oswestry and it's going to be put into ah an anaerobic digester.
00:44:37
Speaker
I mean, those who don't have a and an intimate knowledge of Shropshire's geography, Oswestry is about 40 miles away from Telford. So these are the things that, you know, when you think, oh, why I buy local manure.
00:44:50
Speaker
local meat or things like this. Actually, if someone's shipping all the poo away 40 miles down the road every few days, that that's how the environmental impact of these things tots up as well as all the shite leaching into the local rivers and things like this.
00:45:07
Speaker
Well, and as well, i i'm I'm no expert on this, but I think the the bit that worried me even more was about the liquid waste, because that sort of says that that's going to be all dirty water arising from the development will be removed from the site for disposal through a licensed wastewater treatment works.
00:45:22
Speaker
What is that? building something and just leaking it out into the water system? i've got but just not so I'm not sure what that is, but they're basically saying, yeah, we're going to we're gonna ditch it all. The piss is going in here.
00:45:33
Speaker
Nothing to worry about. And they're just taking that to Wall Street as well. Well, that ah it they are taking the piss. It's quite literally. and Yes. it's I agree with you though, Paul. Like that the fact is that stories like this demonstrate that actually folk that want to eat animal products still don't want to be near what
Public Perceptions: Animal Farming and Celebrity Influence
00:45:54
Speaker
is going on. There is a deep seated knowledge of what goes on.
00:45:58
Speaker
And actually I want it done well over there by other people I don't want to see it. I don't want to hear it I don't want to smell it. I don't want to taste it int until it's been wrapped in cellophane and, and, and, and cooked. So all the bacteria and things in it are well dead.
00:46:14
Speaker
Then I'll look at it and think about it, but everything beforehand I do not want to focus on. What does that tell you, A? It's a very good way of drawing attention to that. Yeah, absolutely. absolutely Yes. um And maybe this is, a you know, say it's another, yet another case for lab meat potentially here, you know, so um um in in the sense that, ah um you know, we could remove the need for these horrible Farms not just for the animal welfare needs, but for the environmental impact.
00:46:44
Speaker
And, you know, people can be happy in their nimbyism, that no i don't not not having to have this on their doorsteps. Yes, wonderfully perfumed laboratories instead. and Yes, I don't know. i don't know how I've suddenly become an advocate for love-grain meat, but it's...
00:47:00
Speaker
I said before, it's a kind of, yeah, not not not a fan, but a kind of ah a necessary a necessity, I think, unfortunately. Perhaps a pragmatic response to the current context.
00:47:10
Speaker
Who knows? We shall see. We shall see. Thank you for that one, Paul. Well, Dominic and Paul have shouted about their picked for the week and grinded their axe and earlier you know Dominic was slagging off all the religions and Paul was talking about the menopause so as you can tell the barrier to um you know casting an opinion on this show is so low really and we'll we'll listen to what anyone has to say so if you want to cast an opinion on anything regarding vegan or animal rights news or maybe you want to correct us on anything or give your opinion
00:47:48
Speaker
We'd love to hear from you. And here is how to get in touch. To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com.
00:47:59
Speaker
We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:48:11
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Okay, just enough time for one more story for this episode. And if you're still with us about after hearing us talk about this badger coal that has been licensed and people building more chicken farms, we think you deserve a reward. So here's something I didn't know.
00:48:35
Speaker
Did you know that Ricky Gervais' last tour, the Armageddon tour that he did, the stand-up comedian, He raised ah just under £2 million pounds that he split between 11 animal charities across the world. And now he has gone on record saying that he wants to go even better. He announced this via an Instagram post following his sold-out gig at the Hollywood Bowl. He's saying that the upcoming mortality tour that he's got, he wants to to raise even more through the ticket sales to donate to animal charities.
00:49:16
Speaker
um The charities he's donated to before represented a mix of UK-based and international causes covering everything from dog and cat rescue to endangered wildlife protection.
00:49:29
Speaker
he has said, i hope the dogs, cats, rhinos and monkeys invest this money wisely because when my career goes tits up, I'll need it back. Now we can say what we want about whether, you know, we've already touched upon ah the nature of the animal rights movement. And, you know, it's it's not one that's got a a pedagogue or a figurehead at the top telling us what we should do.
00:49:51
Speaker
We've discussed before about vegan celebrities. Should we be embracing them or should things be more sort of grassrootsy? But the fact is, two million quid being donated to animal rights charities, that's... um That's hard to sniff at, isn't it? Dominic, Paul, what do we think?
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, it is putting your money where your mouth is. I don't know what that is as a portion of his wealth, but, you know, you've always got to bear in mind that somebody who's poor gives away a little bit of money might be doing just as much as it could be. But...
00:50:23
Speaker
is a lot of money you can't deny that and you know we we all know all charities whether they're animal rights charities or whatever are struggling at the moment so any any money going to these charities uh is is's good because it's going to help hopefully get positive results so yeah more power to him he's got a big mouth on him which is good and he's a good ambassador for animals animals especially now he's moved to being more um obviously wasn't vegan to originally and is now and that's that's really really good and i think he appeals to quite a lot quite a lot demographic perhaps that wouldn't normally look at this sort of thing so he's not scared to kind of bring it up and and people will won't just go you know because it's uh richard race is funny i'm goingnna listen to what you said see we can present a few kind of comical things about how weird it is that we do this and we don't do that if it makes a couple of people think
00:51:09
Speaker
brilliant you know can't deny that's a great thing. Dominic it'd be nice to have two million quid in surplus from ticket sales wouldn't it to just uh sling along to an animal rights charity.
00:51:20
Speaker
Yeah as a slam poet I don't have spare two million pounds from any of my gigs personally. I really echo what Paul said though that is interesting percentage wise what one person gives might be greater so that's to be like really really applauded we take it into account what people are earning and it might be potentially less from Ricky we don't know we don't know we don't know is a lot of money uh good on him I've followed his career from from the start and there's been times where I've really been unimpressed by him where I felt that he said some really regressive things over ah
00:51:56
Speaker
number of topics and you're like oh really oh really i think in the early 2000s i went to see him in uh you know a stand up really excited bought a ticket and and was so let down thought it wasn't funny thought it was generic thought it was obvious um there's also a lot to be said about virtual signaling isn't there in the world of ah influencers filming themselves giving a sandwich to a person who's homeless. Aren't I wonderful? Aren't I wonderful? for And maybe the homeless person doesn't even want a sandwich. You know, there's a lot of that. There is a lot of that.
00:52:31
Speaker
In this case, I don't think it's virtual signalling. I think that, um, Paul is bang on the nail correct when he says that a lot of Ricky Gervais' fans probably aren't vegan and that he is saying stuff in an entertaining way to people, ah in in an accessible way.
00:52:54
Speaker
And I think that this particular action from Ricky Gervais is a really good action, both the money and talking about it because he could have done it... quietly, couldn't he? could have done it without drawing attention to it. But I think that in this case, given the temptation for people to vilify vegans, to see them as crazy folks, and you know I think that it's really good that he's drawing attention, saying this is what I'm choosing to. So am I correct that the upcoming tour is called...
00:53:27
Speaker
morality isn't it that's the mortality oh no less interested in that morality yeah I've touched on things like that before which harks back to my earlier point that so sometimes I've found what he said a little bit obvious and a bit you know but um good for him for doing that I I watch with interest and I watch with interest I thought it was interesting just reading down the article a bit that he talks about the potential to get more money in by selling these more premium tickets. And I'm not sure if that's sort of through this thing we see now with sort of dynamic pricing with with with tickets, which has obviously gained quite a lot of negative exposure. So perhaps it's a nice little shine on it for for him as well. But he's basically saying, look, If you want to pay for the top VIP tickets and you've got a shitload of money going, and you don't mind spending like a thousand quid because it's nothing to you.
00:54:22
Speaker
I'll take it and I'll give it away to over here. We're fine. yeah That's not necessarily dynamic pricing though, is it? Like a lot of artists do off a different level. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:34
Speaker
Listeners may or may not know, but my, um my podcast vice is football podcasts. And actually there are two podcasts that I listened to. more than ah enough of the falafel last year when I got my Spotify unwrapped at the end of December.
00:54:49
Speaker
and Enough of the falafel was in third place behind two ah football podcasts. But one of them that I listened to Ricky Gervais, was on and he he mentioned veganism and animal rights on that. So it's not it's not a case that, I mean, I'm sure there are instances where he's choosing not to bring it up. And in this instance, I think he was asked about it rather than him initiating it, but he certainly didn't shy away from it. And the but Like I think perhaps Paul, you said he's not afraid to point out some of the contradictions that that he himself fell into those contradictions himself, where he was clearly an animal lover or professed to be in his public persona, an animal lover, but still somebody that did consume animal products. So good to have folk pointing that out,
Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode
00:55:36
Speaker
isn't it?
00:55:36
Speaker
Well, here at Enough of the Falafel, our surplus slash loss figure is is consistent. We lose £20 a month that we pay to Zencastr to host this. We don't have any income coming in at all.
00:55:49
Speaker
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00:56:09
Speaker
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00:56:25
Speaker
That will also help the show pop up when people search for vegan or animal rights content online. Thanks for your help.
00:56:36
Speaker
Thank you very much, everybody, for listening. i always have fun recording these, so cheers for tuning in. ah heads up to you all that the next Enough of the Falafel episode will be coming out Thursday the 12th of June. That's our Vegan Talk episode. It's going to be us three again, Paul, Anthony and me, and we're going to be chatting about gatekeeping animal products from entering our houses.
00:57:04
Speaker
Anyway, that's enough of the falafel for this episode. Thanks to Dominic and Anthony for your contributions. Thanks again, everyone, for listening. I've been Paul, and you've been listening to Vegan Week from Enough of the Falafel Collective.