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A Mother's Perspective - POSTPARTUM SERIES (feat. BLAMEITONMOMBRAIN)
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In EPISODE 56 I am joined by Amanda and Jodine from BLAMEITONMOMBRAIN where we discuss what questions we NEEDED to ask that we DIDN'T ask as we prep for the postpartum phase. They open up about their stories along with practical tips and tools to help new dads and veteran dads as they prep for an upcoming baby.
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Transcript
Advice for New Parents
00:00:00
Speaker
And my last piece of advice, which is the most valuable piece of advice that Neil says he was ever given, because before he had a baby, he asked a couple people he knew, tell me the advice, tell me the advice. And someone said to him, when she asks you a question, just answer it.
Introduction to Therapy for Dads
00:00:20
Speaker
This is a Therapy for Dads podcast. I am your host. My name is Travis. I'm a therapist, a dad, a husband. Here at Therapy for Dads, we provide content around the integration of holistic mental health, well-researched evidence-based education, and parenthood. Welcome.
00:00:40
Speaker
Well, welcome, welcome to this week's episode of the Therapy for Dads podcast. I'm very excited for this, I'm gonna say tonight, because we're recording in the evening, my time and one of the guest times, times, and it's two.
00:00:55
Speaker
new friends that I've met recently and I was recently on their podcast and I really enjoyed talking about postpartum fatherhood stuff from well the dad's perspective and kind of shedding light on that and enjoyed it so much in our conversation that I thought I would love to have them on this show and talk through some well postpartum
00:01:16
Speaker
kind of planning.
Postpartum Planning for Dads
00:01:17
Speaker
And this is kind of going to be part of a series on planning for postpartum to help dads better be prepared and to kind of ask the right questions, to kind of better understand what to do, how to help their partners, among many things. The guests, Jodine and Amanda, who run a podcast of their own called Blame It on Mom Brain. So welcome Jodine and Amanda. How you doing?
00:01:41
Speaker
Thank you for having us Travis. We're great. Good. I'd love to have you both. So thank you for deciding to do this. So tell us a little bit about yourselves before we kind of jump
Meet Amanda and Jodine
00:01:55
Speaker
in tonight. Well, first of all, it really was such a pleasure to have you on our podcast. So thanks for inviting us to be part of this series. I'm sure it'll be such a great resource for all of your listeners. And it's just really cool to be part of it for us.
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, my name is Amanda. I'm born and raised in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. I met Jodine when I was living all the way out west in Vancouver, BC. And we actually met each other in our birthing course. We took a hypno birthing course locally, but it was held via Zoom with all little Brady Bunch squares during the pandemic. And we're both first time moms who were just trying to get a bit more insight on pregnancy and what life would be like once baby arrived and
00:02:37
Speaker
what to expect basically when you're expecting for lack of better explanation and we both just really hit it off and so did our partners. Postpartum life ended up being a big whirlwind and our text message thread looked a lot like
00:02:52
Speaker
Burning questions and feeling lonely but also understanding we could relate to each other and a few months ago Jodyne just said just full out she just said we should really start a podcast because what we're talking about feels like many people would be wondering the same and so
00:03:08
Speaker
Our podcast was born and that's one of the things that I love to do is record for blame it on mom brain with Jodine and I'm a former physical and health education teacher and Turned online health and wellness coach. This will be my 10th year running my own business and helping women embrace and prioritize their well-being from home so my part of my biggest routine is movement and well-being through prioritizing your mental health and
00:03:35
Speaker
and the benefits of what moving your body and putting yourself first really do have as a ripple effect to your entire family. And becoming a mom has woven pretty seamlessly into what I do for a living. It's just me, my partner, Will, and our son, who is now 14 months old, Romeo,
00:03:55
Speaker
I'm laughing a little bit because you're mentioning time zones and part of the reason why we're all out of whack with time zones is because I'm visiting my partner's family who is from New Zealand or who lives in New Zealand. So I am recording from the future right now. I have a day ahead of both Jodine and Travis. So that's a little bit about me. Yeah. My name is Jodine and I grew up in a really, really small town in Newfoundland, Canada.
00:04:20
Speaker
which for anyone that doesn't know where that is, it's the most easterly part of all of North America, fun fact. I am now in Vancouver, I've been here, I think I'm going on my seventh year, which really blows my mind. Really big change from where I grew up in my town of 800 people. And I have been in the barbering, hair styling makeup world for the last 10 years, mostly barbering.
00:04:46
Speaker
And that actually really fueled my passion for even this topic we're talking about now. I've been a very unqualified therapist for the last 10 years working with men. So I have a real soft spot for men's mental health and getting them to open up. And it's just something that kind of just came with the territory of working as a barber.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, and then I am married and I have a little girl. Her name is Creed and she is just about to turn 15 months, which is wild to me. Like Amanda said, we met at a hypnobirthing class.
00:05:26
Speaker
And Amanda and I really wanted to have completely natural births. Neither of us had a natural birth. We ended up having C-sections. And we really connected over that experience because it was very difficult for us. We also lived 15-minute walk from each other. So it's like something brought us together. So we didn't fight it. We just ran with it. And now we are very, very good friends.
00:05:55
Speaker
have this podcast together to just talk about all these experiences that we are constantly having as first-time moms and you know, we're both very in tune with our needs and we've been able to overcome a lot of things that I know a lot of people struggle with regularly and we have lots of great things that we do to help overcome all these obstacles and we have very supportive partners as well. So
00:06:24
Speaker
We just want to share our experiences and what's happened and worked for us and hopefully that resonates with somebody out there. And outside of this, I am a huge plant lover. I love cooking and I'm a singer. So that's it. That's me.
00:06:43
Speaker
Awesome. Real quick, since you both mentioned it, just for those who are listening, and real, I guess succinctly, what is hypnobirth?
Exploring Hypnobirthing and Bradley Method
00:06:54
Speaker
Hypnobirthing is basically the practice of training your mind, your nervous system, your whole well-being to be in tune with your
00:07:04
Speaker
breath with your body, to trust your intuition, to be able to navigate what is otherwise medically driven to a more natural perspective on giving birth, on the birthing experience, on your pregnancy, on the postpartum experience as well. It was really eyeopening to learn all about that.
00:07:28
Speaker
While the course was six weeks it was every Tuesday for three hours we got lots of learning material the number one thing that I took away from taking a hypnobirthing course versus You know I think just like a three-hour weekend in-person class that you can hear of which there is nothing wrong with absolutely please everyone go with your
00:07:50
Speaker
gut, but I think that's what it taught me. That's what hypnobirthing taught me was that I'm allowed to have preferences was that I can listen to my body. It was that my baby and I are the best team that we could ever dream to be in that whatever would transpire, whether it was the natural birth we were hoping for or otherwise that my body knew what it was doing. We could channel our mindset to navigate whatever was thrown our way. Um, so that's, that's in part what it is and also what it felt like to me.
00:08:19
Speaker
I used to explain it to my clients that I felt comfortable enough talking about it with was just a deep form of meditation. So yeah, that feels a lot of breath work. And we would read scripts.
00:08:34
Speaker
And it was actually very partner heavy. So for example, that we would end, actually it was pretty much a prenatal class. And then the last 15, 20 minutes of the class was dedicated to hypnopirthing. So we would turn down the lights, we were all on Zoom. And I would lay on the couch and then my husband, Neil would try really hard to be serious and have to read this script. Like, you are now going to listen to my voice.
00:09:03
Speaker
Yada, yada, yada, yada. You're going to take a deep breath. It's kind of like when you go to a yoga class, if you've gone to a yoga class in the Shavasana at the end, like when they just say, okay, lay down, relax your fingers, relax your elbows, relax your knees. So that when you're actually going through contractions or they call it waves, then you are able to go, okay, I can turn my head into that space. I'm going to instantly relax all my body.
00:09:28
Speaker
turn into a puddle so that you're not straining and fighting that you just kind of go with it. And it was very partner driven. So it's funny to talk about this now because they had to try and use those techniques when we were actually, you know, game day.
00:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just had my partner was just, was just saying, peace, peace. Yeah. Every time I could drag him, it was happening. I was like, I love you, but it's not working.
00:10:00
Speaker
And then I even had like the birthing meditation tracks, the music, the soothing stuff playing really loud. And then I ended up putting them in just like my earphones and the nurses were wonderful. Like they absolutely complied with it. Like they were on board that this is what I wanted to do before things sort of started looking sideways and we had to go a different route. But I just really laughed because it kind of helped my partner feel involved from the very beginning, no matter how silly he felt, no matter how much we laughed, just
00:10:28
Speaker
If nothing else, it helped us laugh. It helped us bond and connect over, okay, well, when shit starts hitting the fan, we're going to be able to have a laugh through it. And maybe that in and of itself is the meditation practice, you know? So I really, I really enjoyed that as well. We both did.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds similar to what we did. We did something called Bradley Method course, which our teacher was a doula. And it was at least, it might have been eight weeks, but it sounds similar. It was like three hours. Sounds very similar. She definitely did some hypno stuff. We didn't, you know, guided meditation type of like, we use Waze. There's a book. I can't remember the book we bought. It sounds the same. Yeah, it sounds very similar. We did like, you know, it was basic like, here's all the different types of bursts, like,
00:11:13
Speaker
It was more than just like a one day, three hour day class. It was way more intensive. And I'm glad we did it. We had friends that went through it and encouraged us for like, yeah, we want to do that. We want more. And we did it. It was great. I mean, learned so, so much about natural birthing and C-section and just kind of everything, just kind of the whole gamut. And they called it date day is like, you know, what's date day? And it happens when it happens.
00:11:41
Speaker
This kind of really, I was, gosh, so much education, stuff I never knew. I mean, gosh, I didn't know half the stuff before I took the class. I felt more confident as, you know, as a husband, as a partner, going in like it, I really felt more equipped to be there for my spouse, my wife in the midst of it, because I kind of knew the signs.
00:12:03
Speaker
I knew what was going on, at least somewhat. I mean, it's still first time through, it was definitely nerve wracking, I'll tell you what. I'm glad I had, we had a doula with us who could like, is this what I'm supposed to do? Oh, you had a doula? Yeah, we did midwife and doula, we did home birth. So we did that, which in the States is, I'm not sure I was in Canada, but at least in the States, I don't know if it's the, most people do hospitals still.
00:12:28
Speaker
But there's people do doulas midwives and do it outside and in home But not outside outside. Sorry outside the hospital not like outside. Although that happens for some people they just it happens Yeah, depending where you live, baby's gonna come baby's gonna come But it really helped me and I remembered, you know really learning a lot and laughing through stuff and being more connected to my wife it was really a
00:12:51
Speaker
in a way bonding, you know, pre-baby to be together in it, that it wasn't just her, but I could be in it, you know, to what I could be in it with her. Obviously there's things I could not experience. Obviously the baby coming out of my vagina. I could not experience that and the pain and everything you guys go through. But I knew about it and I knew how to support her and what she needed. And that helped me in those tiring hours to help her.
00:13:17
Speaker
So to me, it was worth every penny I paid for those classes, so very thankful. But that's not what this episode's about. I just thought it would be interesting. People are like, what's hip, no birthing? Talk about it. Because I'm sure we could have a whole episode on different types of birthing and everything and all it looks like.
Managing Expectations in Parenthood
00:13:35
Speaker
Tonight, the topic that I would love to kind of open up, and this is not an exhaustive conversation, but at least in just a conversation around this, and I would love to reflect on a couple things. And the first thing would be, as moms, about a year and a half in with your babies, if you were planning having a second kid, or if you could give advice to your younger self,
00:13:59
Speaker
What do you think now would be the most important thing or a few important things you would want to have talked about with your partner now going through this and how does it differ from what you thought you needed to talk about? Does that make sense?
00:14:12
Speaker
Oh yeah, I would 100% say that the first thing that comes to my mind are the expectations. I think that there were a lot of expectations and they range from anything from the 50-50 division, we're going to do everything equally, to when do we want guests to start coming by, to
00:14:36
Speaker
how are we going to feed the baby? I mean, any topic, there were expectations that existed. Like, I'll just give you an example. I really was hell-bent on breastfeeding baby. I wanted to pump so that my partner could bottle feed, but I was of the opinion that I wanted to only start letting that be integrated into feedings
00:15:01
Speaker
by around week six, so that baby and I could bond, so that baby could get used to me, we could have, we could ensure there was a great latch, all of those things. And to avoid what I was reading about, which was nipple confusion and things like that. So I remember watching my partner's face. He was completely crestfallen. He was so disappointed.
00:15:21
Speaker
And I was still pregnant. He was so sad because it turned out as we were discussing this, one of the number one things he was looking forward to was also feeding the baby, also bonding with baby, also holding the baby and helping them feel comforted while being fed. And
00:15:39
Speaker
he had a more open mind in the space of, well, whatever he needs, whatever the baby will need in order to have their milk, whether it's formula or breast milk, we're fine with whatever. Whereas for me, I was like, breast milk as much as possible. Okay, with formula, but breast milk, breast milk, breast milk, like that was sort of my expectation. And what was funny was, as we were saying before, just
00:16:02
Speaker
the whole day didn't go the way that we had planned where I walked in there thinking I was having a natural birth and I walked out having had a C-section and that intervention and a bit of a challenge with baby. The other part of that was that I hadn't, my milk hadn't come in. So there I was for weeks prior to this envisioning and creating the expectation of we're not going to do formula, we will not do a bottle, I will be breastfeeding and you will only get the chance after like the first month of life type of thing.
00:16:31
Speaker
When in fact, not only was, not only did my breast milk not come in, but that meant like baby had a bottle from the jump, baby had formula from the hospital. I couldn't even get up or hold or feed baby right then and there because I had a, you know, major surgery that I had not anticipated having in the first place. So my partner walked in there.
00:16:52
Speaker
due to this expectation I had placed thinking, and this is a guy who's never fed a baby, never changed a diaper, never even held something that small. And he's like, holy smokes. Like I am now really thrown into this. And he was doing all the things, feeding, holding, getting the formula from the nurse, filling it up, you know, the 30 milliliters in bottle feeding the baby. And so I basically, I've found that expectations were like the number one thing I've had to review.
00:17:17
Speaker
Having my son was the number one lesson I have been trying to learn all my life, which is the lesson of letting go. That your plans are beautiful, but they're always really going to go however else they're supposed to, not how you have it written down on your perfectly curated birth plan.
00:17:33
Speaker
And I think I'm finally getting it. So owed to my younger self, my pregnant self would be stop putting so much pressure on yourself for it to look, feel, and go a certain way because it most certainly likely won't. And not only that, but it breaks your own heart later when and if it doesn't transpire that way. And that was for me, the first thing that came to my head. Like I have, I have a whole little list that I'm happy to work through, but
00:17:58
Speaker
I'm just going to let Jodine go next, but the number one thing that comes to my head is expectations. You know, discuss how and if you want guests and in the timing that that happens, but be open to the fact that maybe you'll have a change of heart. Maybe you won't want anybody at the hospital on the same day that you thought that you might. Maybe you will want help right away and you'll want all the family in there immediately.
00:18:22
Speaker
What about how family and friends can help you? Maybe that's food and meals that are prepped for them delivered to you on the doorstep, just a two minute hello in your house. Those sort of expectations and conversations are really important. And we had them, except I feel like I put a really big, I had a more rigid mindset than I actually realized I had until postpartum came along.
00:18:49
Speaker
And with that, I'm wondering a couple things as you're talking. What was it like for you to kind of go through that phase of this long into breastfeed and then all of a sudden my milk's not in and now we're bottle feeding? What was that experience like for you?
00:19:03
Speaker
Honestly, Travis, it was a real lesson in the second biggest life lesson I've been working through to learn that my son helped me learn instantly, which was comparison is absolute bullshit. The thought that I had, even the vision I was comparing myself to, it isn't ever going to be what you're actually going through. Somebody else's path is never going to be your own. So for example, I was like, well, she was able to breastfeed right away, or they didn't have any trouble,
00:19:32
Speaker
Like, why am I not able to? Why is my body not doing this? That mother is doing it. Like, it was all sorts of thoughts like that. But I think you have to keep up really quick when you have a newborn. And I managed to get back on track mentally, fairly swiftly due to acknowledging that as soon as possible and just realizing, hey, is my baby fed? Amazing. Great.
00:19:54
Speaker
That's really all that matters. It was almost like I had to teach myself that your ego belongs at the door in all of this because it's going to get in the way of what could be a great moment, what could be an expansive experience if you keep letting it basically ruin everything with trying to make you compare or think it had to go a certain way and stuff like that.
00:20:17
Speaker
There was a bit of turmoil, there was a bit of comparison. It felt like, okay, I guess I'm not great at this until I realized I'm amazing at this because I was willing to adapt and change path because that was what my son needed and that's that.
00:20:33
Speaker
Hmm. I love that. And I'm wondering one more question and we'll go to, to Dean. Um, you know, we're in that space of, I'm assuming, I'm making a guess, but I'm assuming that wasn't just an easy, just like, Oh, I'm there now. Um, I'm assuming there was a little bit of a emotional loss and, and grip, you know, grappling, grappling, grappling, grappling with the change of this is not what I wanted and the comparison of ego. And I'm wondering how either how your partner supported you in that, how your husband,
00:21:00
Speaker
as a dad, as a man, how did he support you in that? That really helped you navigate that. That's an amazing question. When I think to those moments of me having to trudge through my mind to get to that more open space, that more compassionate, self-loving space, to realize that I was doing my best and that that's all that mattered, he was the voice of reason saying all of those things. Are you kidding? Look what you've gone through. You're doing amazing. I am here. Let me help.
00:21:29
Speaker
you rest. I am on it. Don't stress. You have enough healing to do. It's both of us. We are a team. The words of affirmation were really big, but it was obviously always
00:21:45
Speaker
backed up by the action as well. So if I couldn't breastfeed because all I had was colostrum at that point, then he was sprinting out the door to make sure that we had formula in the house because before I gave birth, I literally let those expectations not even let me have
00:22:05
Speaker
Formula in the house. I didn't even buy it because I was like, this is not going to be how it goes for us Even though i'm open to it i'm trying to with my mind Will the the end goal that I want to happen? But again, you can't you can't make anything happen
00:22:20
Speaker
you can simply be prepared for the fact that anything can. So he was all hands on deck for me. He was changing the diapers or getting the baby when I couldn't physically stand up. He was making sure that the bottles were warm and getting them full and getting the formula and then picking up the pump from the friend of mine because I didn't realize I needed a pump. I thought I was just going to be exclusively breastfeeding. So I didn't even have a pump.
00:22:45
Speaker
And so all of these things, I really was, I made it harder on myself because I wasn't willing to be like, oh, just in case that doesn't happen, let's be ready for whatever else. And if we don't need it, we'll give it to another mom in need, that kind of thing. So he was always there making sure I understood that I was doing my best. And I now know that he too was going through the same thoughts for his own self.
00:23:07
Speaker
but was very selfless in that, especially those early days. I couldn't be more grateful for him in those moments, for sure.
00:23:17
Speaker
Oh, thanks for sharing on that. I think it sounds like he really met you where you needed him to meet you, even when he was going through his own stuff, but he saw your needs and really kind of met you in that space. Sounds like a good dude, I'd say. He's wonderful. You'd love him, Travis. I'm sure I would. So, Jodine, same question.
Partner Support During Postpartum
00:23:37
Speaker
You know, kind of pre-baby posts, like, what do you think that you thought was important and you realize actually this is important instead after having a kid?
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, so the word that keeps coming to my mind when I'm hearing this question is trust. And we've been together for almost nine years now. We've gone through so many difficult things, not in our relationship, but like external factors, family, things that we've really worked on together, you know, deaths in the family, all sorts of really dark things. We've had to really, really learn how to trust each other.
00:24:16
Speaker
To back up a little bit, my husband never thought he would ever get married or have a child. It was not in the cards for him, as you would say. We are nine years apart. And then he met me and I was like, oh, hey.
00:24:34
Speaker
Do you want to be my life partner? As I like to explain it, she's like a Disney princess with like these big, big bright eyes. And then she has the voice because she's a singer. I'm like basically birds follow her everywhere. Neil had no shots. He was going to be head over heels. So here I come and ruin all his plans of being a single childless bachelor for the rest of his life.
00:24:54
Speaker
Um, so when I, we were married for, we got married in 2018. Um, and then we got pregnant in 20, when did we get pregnant? 2021.
00:25:10
Speaker
And I remember when I brought up the topic, he was kind of like, okay. And he's been very, I don't know what the word is I'm looking for. He never actually saw it as a reality. Even when I told him I was pregnant, which happened, like I said, I'm a barber and I've talked to countless people about their difficulties in getting pregnant, surrogacy, IVF, everything under the sun. This is the norm that I heard.
00:25:36
Speaker
Actually, because people would open up to me about these struggles. I did not have that situation. I got pregnant almost immediately. And for me.
00:25:48
Speaker
I went and both of us went into a complete state of shock because we had convinced ourselves that we were going to be like everyone else that I heard about that, oh, it takes forever. So we had kind of, you know, built ourselves up to think that it wouldn't happen immediately. And so when it did, um, I think especially like for me, it was like, okay, this is my body. I better start learning about
00:26:10
Speaker
what is about to happen to me, which is a lot of the reason why I wanted to start this podcast because I felt completely in the dark. I didn't know anything what was about to happen to me. So here I am on my computer. By the time that I gave birth, I could have been a doula. I knew so much from like zero to 100.
00:26:29
Speaker
My husband was, again, coming back to trust. He trusted me so much. He's like, she knows. She'll tell me. She'll fill me in. I don't need to do any research. And I remember him saying, like, once I signed up for this birth class, I was like, we're going to do this birth class. He's like, OK, cool.
00:26:47
Speaker
He's like, I don't need to do anything other than just listen to the birth class, right? They're going to teach me everything I need to know. So I know you said in the beginning, like, this isn't what we're talking about today. But I would say that as far as prep goes, that birth class was huge for him.
00:27:02
Speaker
As a partner, like you said, I ended up having a C-section. My baby was breech. I had planned I wanted to have a natural water birth at home. That was my plan in my living room, which he admits now that he thought was crazy. He didn't at the time. He kept that to himself. That's okay. All three of my kids are born over a toilet, so we're good.
00:27:22
Speaker
But he's still like, oh my God. Just letting you know. Just saying. It's all good. That was our goal, maybe someday. But I found out at week 37, week 36, 37 or something like that, that I had a breech baby and we actually went and tried to have her flipped. That didn't work. And so I got scheduled for a C-section.
00:27:47
Speaker
my water broke a week early. So a week before the scheduled C-section. And so I call my husband and I say, um, my water just broke. He's at work. I think you need to come home. He's like riding his bike. He rides his bike home. And, um, so from that moment on, that was when reality really kicked in for him. And my birth,
00:28:11
Speaker
to go even further didn't go exactly as planned. So my baby, when she first came out, they gave her oxygen and they gave her too much oxygen and they actually put a little pinhole in her lungs. So all of my plans of having skin on skin contact, you know, breast right away, all these things. I actually didn't see her for six hours. So I had a baby and I didn't,
00:28:40
Speaker
I didn't know anything, but to be honest with you, I was not okay during my C-section. I had a full-blown meltdown. It was the most not myself I've ever felt, to be honest with you. I felt extreme grief, but that moment of like, I'm very, very good at being in control of my emotions for 90% of the time. In that moment, I was not okay. My husband knew I was not okay.
00:29:04
Speaker
And he has an incredible ability to stay calm in any situation. So he was like, I thought everything was fine. I didn't even question what was happening with the baby because my husband was just like this rock sitting beside me that wouldn't like wouldn't let me know what was happening.
00:29:25
Speaker
And then so dad duty really started for him then too because they said, do you want him to stay with you or do you want him to go with the baby? And I said, go with the baby. I'm fine. Look at all these people taking care of me. I'm fine. So he goes on with our daughter and I have no idea what's going on. And this whole time he is with her.
00:29:44
Speaker
this she was five pounds when five pounds six ounces when she was born she was itty-bitty and they were hooking her up to all these tubes and he just told me he it was like so hard for him to watch and not like just constantly be in there and question what they were doing and like he's like I need to step back and allow them to do their job their job they know they're doing
00:30:04
Speaker
So he had to be, we spent, she was in the Nicki for 36 hours and we had to like, he would be the middleman essentially between me and her and he ended up coming back and going back and forth and back and forth. Aside from that and him just taking the full reins on like, he was the first one to hold the baby. He was the first one to do everything, take the picture, held her finger, see her. I didn't, I didn't get any of that.
00:30:30
Speaker
One thing that really stands out that again, I come back to the word trust again is I was so embarrassed to pump because I wanted to breastfeed and I didn't have a baby. I had nothing. I had never even seen this baby. They come up to me with this pump. I feel like a cow. They're like, here, stick this onto you.
00:30:50
Speaker
And I'm like, oh my God. So I was so embarrassed, which is, I don't know how else to explain it other than embarrassed. Like I felt so vulnerable. My husband was there and I was like, like you have clearly seen me naked before, but I feel like I am down to my bones.
00:31:07
Speaker
right now and I couldn't the pump did nothing so I had to hand express and he actually ended up coming and like I was like squeezing my nipples I just had a surgery I'm like a hot mess right and he's taking this little syringe and he's like getting every single droplet
00:31:28
Speaker
As like I'm trying to squeeze it out of me and then he know he puts the label on it He's like, look we have this much and he's just like this, you know jolly Saint who's keeping me going and then he's like, okay we had to bring this to the baby and he brings it to the baby and he takes a picture of it with the baby and Anyways, it's just all these things
00:31:49
Speaker
I just don't know how I would have done this without him. And then I had a C-section and I come home and she is on his side of the bed because I can't sit up. The reality of a C-section, right? Yeah, the C-sections are very, very difficult recovery-wise, right?
00:32:10
Speaker
Um, so I don't even know where I'm going with this, but I'm like reminiscing at the same time. Well, I'm wondering with this, you said trust and, um, you know, vulnerability. And you said it, you know, when you were having the pump and like you said, yeah, you see me naked, but this is a different, this is different.
00:32:33
Speaker
I've even seen my baby and I'm doing this thing and it's this machine and I can't first of all I can't even imagine because I didn't do that. My wife did and I experienced it you know from observation but I didn't have to go through that. So I can't even imagine first of all the experience but this this idea of trust
00:32:57
Speaker
And I'm wondering his presence for you. What did it mean in those moments when you're at your kind of bare bones and vulnerability? What impact did it have?
00:33:12
Speaker
Neil and I, we don't have any family near us. We have been completely dependent on each other for, we've been together for like I said eight years and we've never been around our family since then. So Neil and I have been each other's rock through everything. Anyone that knows us really knows us as like a pretty strong duo. So
00:33:36
Speaker
is I feel for me like whenever he's there I know everything is okay or I think everything is okay whether it is or it's not his presence is like just it's literally everything like his presence fills the room for me like I love my husband so incredibly much and I'm so so fortunate to have someone that
00:33:56
Speaker
I know he will say the right things at the right time. He will hold his tongue. He never speaks to me out of anger. One thing he quoted to me after, I don't know when it was, but he said, this is way harder than I thought.
00:34:16
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, remember I told you this was going to be harder than you could ever expect. Um, yeah. So I don't even know if that answers your question, but, um, the partner can really make or break the birthing person's meant like state. I think you really need to take a step back and look at what your partner needs in this moment.
00:34:42
Speaker
maybe it's nothing, maybe it's silence, right? Maybe it's, because I know in the C-section he was trying all these techniques that we had learned, like think about being at home and our bed and our dog and our blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I'm not okay, I'm not okay, I'm not okay.
00:34:59
Speaker
And the surgeon was like, you need to get her to calm down because she keeps flexing her abs, squeezing. And then he started, he changed his tone and he was like, the doctor says you need to stay calm because you need to stay calm for the baby. He just knew where to go with it. I don't even remember, it's also blurry to me. But it's so much more a powerful position than I think we give credit to.
00:35:29
Speaker
Or that dads don't even think that they're capable of. They have so much more instinct, whether they, maybe it's not like what time the baby naps or, you know, but if you're really have a close bond with your partner, you know what you need to do in those moments. Yeah.
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, and I think having that close bond makes a difference and good communication off the get-go makes a big difference because when you have a baby, all of your stuff, at least my experience and what I've heard is that all that stuff kind of just gets amplified, all your stuff. Oh, for sure.
00:36:07
Speaker
and so having the good bond helps navigate i think a little easier some of that stuff that comes to the surface when you haven't slept in days or you know haven't showered in days or whatever it is especially that first first few weeks first few months um but i'm hearing with you know both of your husbands your partners that they both seem they were really in tune with kind of where you were and what you needed
00:36:28
Speaker
you know, with you, Jodine, kind of that calming presence and kind of being that rock for you in that time of just what the heck is going on. And even for Amanda, you know, similarly in a similar way, but different way. Being there to do things, taking initiative to get things done that needed to be done. And to kind of be there in those moments of
00:36:52
Speaker
in a way loss of expectation of what life, what you plan life to be or mom to be momming to be in that moment and him kind of taking it on himself to help. And so both, both dads are really in tune with both of you.
00:37:06
Speaker
I think so. And what's fascinating to me is that I kind of like how Jodine mentioned a little bit earlier, she sprinkled this in, but she shared how she was very selective about who she told she was doing a hypnobirthing course with just because the looks that you can get are just like, what are you doing? Like it makes you look kind of like, I don't know, Harry Ferry, like that sort of thing.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, a little bit crunchy. That's a great adjective. And I did the same. I did something similar. And I had someone online reach out who was pregnant around the same time. We're actually a couple of people. And they said, hey, would you mind sharing what class you're taking? Because I mentioned it in passing.
00:37:47
Speaker
And I said, oh, well, it's a it's it's hypnobirthing and it's very partner heavy. So we're both doing it. It's actually not just me. And I can't even tell you how many women replied with what he's doing it with you. Oh my God. No, he.
00:38:02
Speaker
He won't even open the book to read it after I've done the classes. He doesn't come with me to anything. He's not interested. When I ask him to feel my bump, he doesn't really care. It's so amazing to hear that he actually wants to be part of it. And so it really is not lost on Jodine and I that we are in a space of we did have something very solid prior to pregnancy because exactly like what you said, it's going to be that flashlight shining the light on all the cracks in the foundation that exists before. It is not a band-aid. It is a bomb.
00:38:31
Speaker
It is literally like a grenade that you're throwing into your relationship for good, for better or for worse, rightly or wrongly how I'm expressing it. That is what it is because you aren't your best self. You are sleep deprived. You're hungry. You're not, you're recovering. It's the whole thing. So we are fortunate to have had people who are steadfast with us prior to pregnancy because postpartum, it was still a wild ride regardless.
00:38:53
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah. And I think it makes the phrase, depending, you know, some people do their own vowels, you use the traditional vowels, but that traditional vowel of, you know, in sickness and in health, like it really makes that phrase come to life of this is hard. And how do we support each other in this phase of we haven't slept in days, weeks, months, and we know we're dealing with
00:39:22
Speaker
There's so many different things. Healing to losses of, I want to breastfeed, now I have to use the bottle or the baby won't, I mean, and anything in between the baby won't take a bottle, but we need them to take a bottle. I mean, there's so many experiences. A baby has colic or, you know, there's all these things.
00:39:39
Speaker
And it really, it really amplifies all those cracks of the relationship. And, you know, I feel for those who maybe go into this without having a solid relationship, that it really makes sense why those stats go high of, because it really just, you know, you get out your ugliest, not intentionally, but just that's what happens. You can get pounded in the ground of just postpartum life of just, man, I haven't sleep showered and done anything.
00:40:08
Speaker
Um, I'm barely surviving here. And now for a short break. So if you're looking for ways to support the show and my YouTube channel, head on over to buy me a copy.com forward slash therapy for dads. There you can make a one time donation or join the monthly subscription service to support all that I'm doing at the intersection of fatherhood and mental health.
00:40:30
Speaker
and all the proceeds go right back into all the work that I'm doing, into production, and to continue to grow the show to bring on new guests. So again, head on over to buymeacoffee.com forward slash therapy for dads. Thanks, and let's get back to the show.
00:40:45
Speaker
And hearing both of your stories, I think something that I would love to hear as we begin to, you know, kind of wrap the show up is I'm wondering if you were to kind of put a name or a label or phrase to kind of what your husbands did for you.
00:41:00
Speaker
like what would you like during this phase during you know kind of during leading up to birth and then you know postpartum because it sounds like they're both really in tune but if you could kind of encapsulate it and you know in a word or phrase or sentence of what they did to kind of give this is like wow this this is really what it meant to me this is what they did for me this is how it met me where I was you know what would you say to that how would you how would you put
Compassion and Communication in Relationships
00:41:23
Speaker
that
00:41:23
Speaker
Gosh, that's a really good question and also really challenging because of the depths and nuances of all of it. And you could use more than a word in a sentence. I'm just, you know, feel free to talk longer. Yeah. I think for me, it's deep, deep compassion because he was seeing me as a different me.
00:41:46
Speaker
He was meeting me again. All of this was a reintroduction of self, let alone to the partner. So his openness, his willingness to be compassionate to this new being, this new identity, this new role that I had to now step into, which obviously I had been stepping into it four months as I grew a person, now became this brand new phase of my being, which was,
00:42:12
Speaker
I actually have to do the momming on the outside now and you don't know who I am like that. And I don't know who I am like that. So the best thing that you can do is remain compassionate and open to me. Those are the two words I would say. My partner will is his soul. He's like the cool. He's, he's my Virgo earth to my Aries fire. Like he's just my, my absolute, um, other half.
00:42:37
Speaker
And I think what's powerful is that that doesn't mean that we're always going to get it right. We messed up a lot. And he always remained compassionate and open. He wasn't judgmental to me. He allowed me the safe space to explore myself and to express myself and to admire myself. And all of those things were
00:43:01
Speaker
in the ebbs and flows of motherhood always appreciated because on hard days, I really, really needed them on really good days. I was like, you know what? You're right. I'm fucking amazing. Like I was able to just like really like step into that. And, you know, he'd high five me when it was empowering. And then he'd put his arm on my shoulder when it was challenging. And I think he allowed me the safety, the compassion, the openness to be all, to explore all, to embody all. And that's to me what he did, like,
00:43:30
Speaker
Of course, I could talk hours about how helpful all that was, but I think in essence, that is a gift that is indescribable at the end of the day. So I almost feel like no matter how wordy I am with it, it really just boils down to I had a person who was willing to see me for me in that stage of myself and that, Oh God, what a gift.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm wondering, you know, I love compassion and open and to see you and I'm wondering, you said it, but just to make it crystal clear for the men that are listening and dads or future dads, can you give like a little practical example of what that actually looked like to kind of say, Oh, this is what it looks like. Cause I think a lot of men that I work with,
00:44:13
Speaker
You know a lot of just how guys tend to think and then all guys I'm generalizing here I get that but a lot of guys like to they like practical steps and Typically when you give a guy a practical step they tend to do it I think sometimes I see as they struggle with well, how do I do that? You know
00:44:28
Speaker
What do you mean be compassionate? I think some guys get that intrinsically, but a lot of men just, it could be kind of esoteric language of like, what do you mean to be seen? I do see you. I see you all the time, right? I am open. What do you mean? So what would it look like practically for you to give a little bit of like, you know, tangibleness to it? Yeah, that's a great question.
00:44:52
Speaker
A couple of things that come to mind are, first things first, is acknowledging how we could play to our strengths. He was the first one to really cue in on the fact that our whole relationship, I've always been a morning person, he's always been the night owl, early bird and night owl.
00:45:10
Speaker
I was of the thought of let's do everything together, every wake up, every feeding, every diaper change. And I'm sure you can appreciate as a father of three how quickly that didn't work. Like we could not do every single thing together. It did us no good to be exhausted together all the time. And so what he realized was, I'll never forget it. The first time he really cued into it, he said,
00:45:34
Speaker
I am going to go to bed because I know that I will work better at night and you do better in the morning. So let's start working in turns and working in shifts so that with the pumped breast milk, I can help you sleep at night when you are not your optimal self. And so we did have the benefit of our baby getting used to the bottle right from the beginning, as I explained previously. And that helped me get an extra two, two and a half, three hours of sleep.
00:46:02
Speaker
And then when the hours of the day when he was not ever going to operate as his optimal self, but I was cool with it, we would swap. So that was really, really important is playing to our strengths. The second thing I would say was like, that's a practical tool of, of, of knowing me so well that he was able to propose that when I didn't even know what my, what my freaking name was.
00:46:23
Speaker
The second thing I would say is really seeing me in the change in self and watching me deal with an identity crisis. It actually touches a bit on what Jodine mentioned about being hooked up to the pumps. I can't tell you how many days I hated. It's a strong word, but it is my truth. Sitting on that couch because I could barely stand from the c-section incision, which I actually ended up having post-op complications. I found out my incision was infected.
00:46:50
Speaker
So I ended up having to go back to the ER and they had to press it to make sure the cut wasn't wide open. It was a shit show. Anyway, so I'm there sitting on the couch just getting like pumping and I feel ugly. I feel like, is this my existence? All I do is sit, feed somebody else, cry about it and feel this level of pain. I feel so exposed. Jodine expressed it perfectly bare bones. Like I felt so naked, so raw in front of him.
00:47:21
Speaker
It was awful, but what he would do was he'd cheer me on no matter how little I pumped. He would express to me that it would be okay if we just chose formula instead, if it was compromising my mental health. He let me know that it could be something we'd look at with as much of a lightheartedness as possible. If we don't laugh, we'll cry, he'd say, like things like that. So he'd be able to help me cheer up when I felt terrible.
00:47:47
Speaker
You would remind me that it was only temporary. You know, like, again, I'm really big on words of affirmation, so I feel like this has come up for me a couple of times, but the very aspect of seeing that I was struggling with who I was now becoming and the reality of how unsexy, unglamorous, unbeautiful it was compared to all the stuff you hear during pregnancy where you're like, you're glowing, you're a goddess, you're like embodying
00:48:11
Speaker
like all that stuff, like all that's lovely, but then when you're pumping on your couch and you haven't slept in like a week, like you feel anything but. And he was able to remind me that this was part of how beautiful it was. My scar was just one of the many beautiful marks my son was going to have left on me for life and how beautiful that is. That was literally the sentence he said, and I'll never forget it because I look in the mirror and look at it and be like, well, shit, I didn't expect to come home with this, you know?
00:48:37
Speaker
on my body that is now altered forever like that wasn't there when I left so you know those things were really helpful and then the last thing I would say is he'd know me well enough to see and say what I needed so in terms of guests he knew I didn't want anybody right away so we were very firm with family and friends like we're gonna wait a little bit before we have anybody come or
00:48:57
Speaker
he really wanted that time to know get to know how to become a parent with me so he would learn a lot we would do lots of things together because we did both want to be on the same page in order to give me the ability to sleep at night so you know he was like
00:49:12
Speaker
we want help and help will be really great but Amanda really wants to get to know who she is as a mom before having external opinions and you should do this and when I was a young mother this is what I did you know like he was very good at respecting my boundaries and helping me voice that to other people so that while I was exhausted he could be he could back me up
00:49:34
Speaker
That was powerful as hell. So if there are any dads listening and wondering how to put that into practice, it's like just meet her where she's at physically, mentally, remember the strengths, ask her if she's capable of meeting them and just feel it out. And also,
00:49:51
Speaker
don't forget to say what you need because he wasn't shy to tell me like I'm really bad at mornings that I am struggling pretty badly with this I cannot do it can we please find a way to make this work and we did and it worked for months and in fact still works today so I hope that that is a tangible list based on my experiences I hope that helps someone
00:50:12
Speaker
No, I thank you, Amanda, for going into that detail and sharing that. Very tangible, very practical, very doable. And obviously that's your experience and people are going to take it and apply it to their context. And I think we kind of take this in and say, OK, how does this apply to mine?
00:50:34
Speaker
You know again, it really sounds like again your husband was really in tune and really was aware and really did a great job meeting where you were at and kind of filling that need and in that space of just broken down this rawness of really just building up and being safe, you know heard a lot of safety and that a lot of
00:50:53
Speaker
you know, kind of being seen, you know, not, not, not judging, but just kind of meeting you in that space. That's kind of where they really heard. And it really made a difference for you as I'm hearing, which is amazing. So again, it sounds like a really,
00:51:09
Speaker
spot-on guy and he gets it right and so my hope is that yeah guys listening or the dad's like yeah, this is like this is a good example of being in tune of paying attention of listening and remind me to ask after after a minute not a minute Jodin goes, sorry Love languages you mentioned this and that's something it came up actually in conversation today I was having with someone which is fascinating about
00:51:28
Speaker
love languages in this, especially in the postpartum phase. So I'm going to table that and come back to it after Jodine goes because I want to hear what Jodine has to say for this question. Yeah. So I want to continue on with a couple of things Amanda said. One was sleep. I think that is the thing in postpartum. It's the thing. It is the only thing other than food and sleep. Like that is basic survival. And hopefully you have a roof over your head to begin with.
00:51:59
Speaker
There's a couple things that my husband did that were, I didn't even know he was doing it in the moment. I've exclusively breastfed since she's been born. I've never missed a feeding that was by choice and her rejecting the bottle shortly in. So I barely was alive. Sounds like my wife.
00:52:20
Speaker
And it's so hard, it is so hard. So he, with his job, he was capable of shifting his schedule. So what he did, he was like, talk to his boss. He said, I'm going to come in a little bit later in the morning and work a little bit later in the evening.
00:52:39
Speaker
And that really worked for us because when I was awake all night, I started, he went back to work two weeks after. Um, and so I would stay up or wake up every night feeding and feed her and just put her back to sleep. He would sleep through all of it. And then he would wake up really early in the morning, um, take her from me and then he would let me sleep for a little longer in the morning and then he would go to work late.
00:53:05
Speaker
That really worked for us. If you have the flexibility in your job to, you know, um, make room for something like that. It's shocking how understanding your boss can be if they are also a parent. So it's worth asking those questions because it creates an entirely new bond. Recently, actually on our podcast, we just interviewed each other's husbands. Um,
00:53:32
Speaker
And that was one of the things that Neil talked about in his interview was just this newfound relationship that you build with all these other dads. As soon as you say, I have a kid, you're like, oh, we get each other. So talk to other dads. That's another tidbit of information.
00:53:50
Speaker
There was one other night as well where he recognized I was really struggling and he said, you are going to pump every feeding tonight. You are not going to touch the baby and I'm going to sleep in a separate room. I will come bring you the clean bottles, switch out the bottles so literally you sit up, pump, go back to sleep and I will feed her all night because she was cluster feeding and she was up I think like every hour and 15 minutes or something like that.
00:54:14
Speaker
And that was him telling me what to do because I was not capable at that time of even talking. I couldn't form an opinion. And my last piece of advice, which is the most valuable piece of advice that Neil says he was ever given, because before he had a baby, he asked a couple people he knew.
00:54:35
Speaker
tell me the advice, tell me the advice. And someone said to him, when she asks you a question, just answer it. And I know for my husband and for a lot of men out there, they were afraid of answering questions. So for example, what do you want to eat tonight?
00:54:54
Speaker
Well, do I tell her what I want to eat or does she going to want me to guess a thing that she wants to eat? You know, that kind of psychology. There is no psychology when you are a postpartum and you are sleep deprivation.
00:55:08
Speaker
sleep deprived. I didn't realize what that truly meant until I was in it. If people ask me questions, I couldn't answer. I was so tired. I was like, please don't ask me what to eat. Please don't ask me what we're going to do today. Please don't ask me what the weather is. I'm just holding it together here.
00:55:29
Speaker
If I ever said, Neil, please, can you decide what we're going to eat tonight? He said, yes. Can you decide what size diapers we need to buy? Yes. You know, just answer the question. If she's asking, it's because she needs you in that moment. And that was so
00:55:49
Speaker
So precious to me that he actually followed that advice. And I actually say that to any new parent or any new dad that I meet. I just said the one thing I said, here's my unsolicited advice that I'm giving you. Answer the questions. And the one other thing I would say.
00:56:05
Speaker
He listens to me very well when he doesn't always listen to himself. So I am very intuitive and I can sense he is not doing okay. And I will voice it, like, because I know him so well. I think you need to go to the gym.
00:56:22
Speaker
You're getting a little antsy. Like I need you to take care of yourself so you can help take care of me. Um, because right now I really, really need you. And so I think just listening and receiving what I'm saying and reading through the crankiness and the, you know, I was pretty snappy. I am not a snappy person. I hate confrontation, but I remember in those moments where I would say something and I was like, whoa, what did I just say?
00:56:49
Speaker
So giving your partner a lot of grace in those moments is really important, I think. Yeah, I like that. A lot of grace in these moments because we are kind of, you know, when we're sleep deprived, it's hard to be our best for anybody. It's a physical impossibility when you haven't slept for days.
00:57:13
Speaker
or enough water or enough food, you know, that happens in your survival mode. Sometimes it's like, did I eat today? I think I did, you know? And if you're breastfeeding or pumping, it's like that, you know, takes energy, right? And I got to remember to eat and have water and all these things. And yeah, grace and grace and upon grace upon grace.
00:57:33
Speaker
And I love what you said, too, about you were also in tune with him saying, you know, you need to go to the gym. Like, you need time. You need to recharge yourself. And it sounds like you knew him well enough that that would recharge him. Like, that would give him that space to kind of reset.
00:57:50
Speaker
Um, it has, you know, the final question with kind of love languages and we could probably talk for a couple more hours on all this stuff, but just for the sake of time, you know, you mentioned love languages and I had this conversation randomly today with someone about love languages and postpartum. And then, and then the man, I just mentioned it. So I'm wondering, do you guys know what your prime, your top love languages are?
00:58:11
Speaker
Yes, it was literally my homework when I met Will that he had to read that book because I had been through months and months and months of therapy. I had spent so many months getting to know myself, learning about what I was like because I was so fed up of letting my worth, my value, my voice be
00:58:29
Speaker
directed by whether or not some external person thought it was valuable. I was like, I really want to know what I want or need. And I found this book and it was so life changing for me. And when I met him and I finally, I decided, okay, you're worth my energy effort and time and heart and the whole thing. I was like, I need you to read this book because I need you to know how to
00:58:52
Speaker
love me properly. And I, in turn, want to know how to do the same so that we can support and respect each other through all this. And what's interesting is that my love language then was very much words of affirmation, which it continues to be. But something I found that was at the complete freaking bottom of the list back when I met him, which was five and a half ish almost six years ago, was acts of service. However,
00:59:19
Speaker
recently, I think it was about three or four months ago, we didn't reread the whole book, because I understand and know all the concepts. In fact, I recommended a lot even to my clients as well. But he I realized he and I were no longer loving each other, each other, right? We were no longer saying the things we needed to say we were, we were just missing the mark here and there. And even for a really solid couple, that's going to happen. I mean,
00:59:43
Speaker
You're not even the same person you were 15 minutes ago. Of course you're going to change, especially with parenthood. And so I realized that words of affirmation were still very strong for me. It was the leading love language, but acts of service had jumped to second.
00:59:57
Speaker
So it went from my last to the second. And I realized that was because, like Jodine said, the decision making of, oh, OK, the sink is filled with dirty dishes and Amanda is exhausted because last night was really terrible. I'm just going to wash the dishes. Or like that jumped up to being like, oh, my God, I love you so much. Thank you. Come here right now. Like it was it changed like.
01:00:18
Speaker
everything because I realized that my priorities were different. I am different. The space we share is different. So for me, words of affirmation, I'll always, always cherish the fact that what I am doing is affirmed and acknowledged by you.
01:00:35
Speaker
And also that you're doing the things. And I think I said this prior too, which was he always did that, but he always backed it with an action. And I know now that that was why it was so important. It's because those two words of affirmations matter a lot to me now. So those are mine. And what about you, Jodine?
01:00:53
Speaker
Yeah, mine is, I have three. I'm complicated. I have words of affirmation, quality time, and physical touch. So sit on the couch with me, hold my hand, and tell me I look nice, essentially. What more does the girl want?
01:01:15
Speaker
but which is actually the complete opposite of my partner and he only so i have known about this for a long time he's almost like a hundred percent acts of service he will clean the entire house and he'll be like look i showed you how much i love you and i'm like actually i know you just do this because you were i think in my head like
01:01:35
Speaker
Aren't you just doing this because you really love having the house clean? Because acts of service is like my bottom. And maybe it's because he's always been like this since I've known him that I don't even need to think about acts of service because he's constantly doing it. But this is actually something I know you talked about. What was the word you used?
01:01:57
Speaker
tactical? Is that what you said? Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible. Tangible.
01:02:17
Speaker
It's been on for a long time, a great book, the five love languages, their words of affirmation, acts of service, gifts, quality time, and physical touch. We all feel loved in all of these ways.
01:02:32
Speaker
you know for a quick summary but there's a few for all of us that tend to stand out more than the others that we tend to feel more cared for and loved by by these certain ways and I think what Jodine said which is very common is that sometimes you know often as a couple we tend to have how we feel most loved doesn't always align with the top ways in which our partner feels love so part of it is like learning how do we
01:03:00
Speaker
One, recognize, oh, when, using Jardine, when my partner does do access service, this is one way he shows that he loves me. So even if that's not my top, I can see, oh, he's showing me he loves me this way, as well as it's important for your husband to work on some of your prime ways. It's like both end, right? It's the recognition of what they do, as well as us evolving and shifting to better meet the needs of our partner with what they're needing.
01:03:26
Speaker
So, for example, my wife needs boards of affirmation are big for her. That's not one of my ways I tend to show it. I've had to work over the years to be more vocal. I'm a big access service guy too, go figure, right? And quality time. But I've had to work at saying it more out loud. I think it in my head.
01:03:48
Speaker
all the time. But I've learned to really verbalize it to her because that speaks volumes to her. It's huge. Yeah, it's huge. Yeah, it'll be something that I, you know, I think actually, Jodina, I think I recommended that book to Neil, didn't I? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. So I think that for any dad listening that is maybe planning for your birth, this is a really good book to listen to before you have your baby.
Shifting Love Languages Postpartum
01:04:17
Speaker
because you asked Amanda, how are ways that your partner showed you compassion? It can be through these love languages. And I remember that after Neil listened to this book, he was raving about it to everyone at work. He was like, do you know what your love languages are? Because it really broke it down for him. And there was a situation, it sounds so similar to what you just said. They told a story in it where it was like, oh, the husband thought he was
01:04:44
Speaker
Filling up her love tank with acts of service and then the wife felt like her tank was going down But she didn't even realize it and it was because you know, she doesn't acts of service is not her main love language This is so similar to what you said And what your experience was so when my husband heard this story he was like, oh, I think I'm doing that I need to give her more and
01:05:10
Speaker
acts of, sorry, words of affirmation. And that's also very difficult for my husband. He's not naturally like a compliment giver, although he thinks them all in his head. He's like, of course I think these things, but it's just not natural for him. He struggles to say things like that. But yeah, I think the Love Languages book is really, really powerful for a relationship and just recognizing each other's needs again, which is what postpartum really is.
01:05:38
Speaker
And especially in post-partum and I think in post-partum too, some of those might shift a bit. Yeah, like they did for our relationship. I found that Wills was physical touch and quality time and his too, acts of service was all the way at the bottom. It totally jumped to the top and it was amazing because then both of us were like,
01:05:57
Speaker
Holy shit, you helped me do that without me having to ask you. Thank you so much. Oh my God, I feel so seen and acknowledged by you. It was so good. It put us right back on the same page. It made us, like you said, guys kind of tend to want to do something. And for us, it just so happened to mean that that is exactly what we were doing is we were doing each other.
01:06:17
Speaker
things for each other without having to constantly check in. It was just taking initiative and taking things off of each other's plates as a result. So strongly recommend that book. Don't only recommend it prior to baby, also recommend it when you've had the kid. Year and a half in, go ahead and read that book again because you're not even the same person you were before that baby arrived and you're going to want to get to know yourself and your partner all over again. It's so worth it. Ours is both also quality time as well and that's been something very, very
01:06:47
Speaker
important postpartum for us is that we keep making time for just each other, that we're not just talking about the baby.
01:06:56
Speaker
That is very important to us and why our love, I'm going to get cheesy here, um, stays so strong is because, you know, we really make time every single night. We even like schedule in the weekday, like, okay, I'm only going to, I'm not going to be here this night or this night. He's working late that night. We have to make sure Friday we are together.
01:07:18
Speaker
sit down, hang out, eat pizza, whatever it is for you. So quality time for us has been so important. And that's been very from the beginning of postpartum. We never stop prioritizing each other and just put baby, you know, baby is asleep. We can take time for each other in this moment. It's been very important for us.
01:07:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I would agree with that and concur that we have also done something similar. We're prioritizing, connecting, even if it's for a few minutes, but knowing that we're going to connect. And sometimes you have more time, right? Sometimes you do get more time. And by the time it's like, hey, you know, I got five minutes, but I want this five minutes to be totally with you because I am exhausted, but I know I want to check in and intention. And I heard this said once that,
01:08:04
Speaker
You know, we really need to work on three parts of our relationship, you know, especially as we become parents because now we're mom and dad, right? Well, that's one. And we tend to get stuck in the mom and dad kind of role because that's so, it takes a lot, especially in the newborn phase and the first few years. I'm really actually all the way through. I mean, talk to parents and with high school kids, I could, it shifts and evolves, but it takes a lot being mom and dad and what that requires to be mom and dad.
01:08:29
Speaker
And the second part of us is kind of like that partner, you know, the responsibility of being a partner or husband-wife or whatever your partnership looks like, that there's a certain level of expectation, adulting that goes into that type of partnership. But I think the part that tends to get lost as we become parents or as our relationship grows is the kind of the dating part, that kind of romantic
01:08:51
Speaker
not to get cheesy, but that kind of romance of like dating, of being fun, of laughing, of, you know, loving each other, having those fun, because that, we need all three. Because I think what happens when we become mom and dad, we get, you know, it happens.
01:09:09
Speaker
It's writing a responsibility and trying to navigate and being responsible and how do I be a good dad and mom and all, you know, how do my world, my kids need, which is all important. But what tends to happen very happens all the time is that other part just gets, it's on the, it gets pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed.
01:09:28
Speaker
And I think that's what I tend to see when I work with couples, is that's the part that we need to kind of relight because couples lost that. And so they're so over here in the mom, dad, or husband, wife, or partner, partner, where we're so responsible and serious that we forget about this other piece of just sitting and holding hands on the couch.
01:09:47
Speaker
doing that stuff that drew us together in the first place of laughing, of having fun dates and enjoying each other's company, which is so needed to round out the relationship. So thank you for sharing that. And the love languages, by the way, guys, if you ever read the book, it's easy, it's not a long read, it's really quick to get through. In fact, you could probably literally, if you don't read the whole book, you could just Google a summary and you're gonna get the gist of it. But it's actually, it's really important
01:10:12
Speaker
and use it as a guide, it's not like a, you know, it's not this like box to put your spouse in yourself and it's more of a guide to have a conversation to better understand yourself one and your partner so you could better meet each other's needs because when that happens, it makes the world of difference. Couldn't agree more. Big difference.
01:10:31
Speaker
So I want to thank you both for being on the show. Thank you, Amanda and Jodine. I feel like we talked about some of these topics. I wanted to go farther, but for being aware of the time, knowing that it's already about an hour and 12, I wanted to be conscientious of people listening that, you know, we got to come up to a wrap. So if you were to leave this with one final kind of word or thought of planning for postpartum, what would you say? One final thought or word for postpartum planning?
01:10:59
Speaker
Be kind to yourself. It's about to be the wildest ride of your life. And you don't need to be harder on yourself and make it harder than it's already going to be. Beautiful, but hard. So lots of kindness, self-compassion, kindness, self-love. You can do this one day at a time. I love that.
01:11:16
Speaker
Think be open about how you're feeling whether it's just to your partner or someone else you trust And try not to feel guilty about all the thoughts that you are Experiencing because I think sometimes actually a lot of the time we think things and we're like I shouldn't be thinking this right now So you don't verbalize it and then you just hold it in and then you know you gain resentment so I think just being open and honest with
01:11:41
Speaker
The trusted people in your life and just know that you know, they're not going to judge you for it
01:11:47
Speaker
I love both of those. And where can we find you? Where can we find you both? You can catch us on Instagram. Our Instagram handle is at blameitonmombrain.com. You know, we're on there showing when there are new episodes and letting people know about interviews and guest speakers and stuff. So you can find us on social media there. And you can find us on anywhere that you listen to podcasts. And you can also check us out on our website, www.blameitonmombrain.com.
01:12:17
Speaker
basically the same handle all over, you can find us. Great. And I'll drop us in the show notes too. For those quick reference, it'll be in the clickable links for you to click on both Instagram and website and podcast link to find them. Thank you so much, both of you, for taking time out every day to have this conversation. It was so enriching. I'm really thankful for both of your, just sharing your part of your story, both of your stories and kind of what was helpful.
01:12:44
Speaker
Planning and really enlightening and I really think it'll help those that are listening So thank you both and have a wonderful rest of your night and morning for for Amanda since you're tomorrow So thank you and hopefully the day turns out well, you know, you already know what happens And you know, I guess I'll find out in a couple hours. The future is looking bright everybody. Don't worry. I'm telling you it's all looking good Thank you, Travis. Thank you so much for having us. Yeah, have a good night guys
01:13:11
Speaker
Thanks for joining and listening today. Please leave a comment and review the show. Dads are tough, but not tough enough to do this fatherhood thing alone.