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Planting Seeds of Change: Evolution from Military Life to Mindfulness
89 Plays5 months ago
Welcome back to another episode of The Integrated Man Project! In today's conversation, our host, Travis Goodman, sits down with Tyler Schmoker to discuss the fascinating journey from military life to entrepreneurship and personal growth. Tyler, who grew up on a rural farm in North Dakota and served 21 years in the Army, shares his transition to paramilitary work, corporate security, and eventually founding his consultancy company, Winsly.
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Together, they delve into the profound impact of gardening, which Tyler describes as "active mindfulness," likening it to the iterative nature of business management and its role in fostering patience and long-term thinking. They explore how this meditative practice has enriched Tyler’s social and internal worlds, shifting his priorities and helping him manage PTSD.
Tyler and Travis also dive into the importance of tactile experiences in our digital age, the societal pressures of extreme achievements, and integrating holistic practices to find balance. They chat about military culture, the challenges of transitioning to civilian life, and the importance of traditional and nontraditional therapies for veterans.
As the episode unfolds, you'll hear about their musical preferences, light-hearted banter, and the joy of simple, grounding activities, whether it's listening to vinyl records or sitting by a fire.
In what ways can you integrate new activities into your daily life to manage stress and improve your overall well-being without expecting immediate benefits?
Stay tuned, and let's dive deep into today's enlightening conversation with Tyler Schmoker!
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Transcript
Introduction and Community Launch
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project podcast. Before we jump into this week's episode, I did want to share about an exclusive membership I want to be launching to help shape the Integrated Man Project community. If this is something you'd be interested in, where you will be co-laboring with me, sharing your ideas, giving input, giving me feedback, part of kind of this process of creating something bigger and better for all men,
00:00:27
Speaker
I would love for you to join. And if this is something you're interested, please reach out to me, email me at integratedmanproject at gmail.com.
Episode Transition and Guest Introduction
00:00:35
Speaker
You could also send me a direct message on Instagram as well or on LinkedIn. I would love for you to reach out to me. I would love for you to be part of this exclusive group to help again, shape and form this integrated man community.
00:00:50
Speaker
Because as you do this, as we share in this journey together, we're going to create a community of men around the world where we become more grounded, more adaptable, more resilient, and more authentic men. So come on and join. If you're interested in this, please reach out to me. And without further ado, let's get into this week's episode.
00:01:16
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project podcast. Sometimes I feel like that's just like, if I say it too fast, I'm going to slur that and sound ridiculous. But anyway, welcome. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Whenever you're listening to this, if you're watching us, that's even better because you get to see, I don't know, us. And that's, I think that's, I like that. I can't see you. I could see Tyler and I'm going to welcome Tyler to this show. Say,
Tyler's Background and Career Shift
00:01:40
Speaker
how's it going, man?
00:01:40
Speaker
Hey, glad to be here for the early bird edition of the integrated man project. Thank you. I figured, you know, if anyone could do it, Tyler can. I'll make a shirt for you. Yeah. Early bird edition. Those that don't know, I'm out in California. I'm doing posts or not post pre my whole family waking up. It's about, you know, five 30 a.m. Oh, five 30. My time, you know, those military dudes and women listening and Tyler, I think he's not as early as I am. Not as early.
00:02:07
Speaker
But hey, early enough. So welcome Tyler. Hey, can you do a quick intro of who you are? Kind of, you know, kind of what you're doing right now in your life and tell us about yourself. Yeah. So my name is Tyler. Uh, I grew up on a small family farm in North Dakota, extremely rural, even by North Dakota standards and, you know, didn't grow up with much. Things got better as I got a little bit older, but you know, kind of a,
00:02:33
Speaker
economically lean community. So I wanted an opportunity to, like a lot of other people, go and see the world a little bit, do something outside of the bubble that I've been in. So I joined the army and I was in the army I think five days after I graduated from high school. And between active duty and deployments and National Garden Reserve, I ended up making a full career out of it. So I retired just shy of 21 years right before the pandemic.
00:02:59
Speaker
So about half of that career, I was more part-time basis. I wasn't occupying all of my time. So then I jumped into paramilitary work and did some embedded work overseas with the Afghan army as a civilian, but working for the United States government indirectly, did some other paramilitary contracts and training support, and then eventually got into the corporate security business.
00:03:24
Speaker
Worked for a couple of large global firms and specialized in consulting work for Fortune 500 clients. So, high revenue accounts and eventually worked as a PMO. So, a project manager of project managers for the entire company, went into a managing director role, was here in Minneapolis during the civil unrest and riots. And I had a
00:03:49
Speaker
team of around 1100 security people that worked for me at the time. So pretty large team and kind of managing all of that. And then eventually I decided to step back from the corporate ladder and take a shot on myself. So open up my own consultancy last year and really started marketing it outright about four months ago.
Entrepreneurship Language Evolution
00:04:10
Speaker
So I'm very much in early startup phase right now doing a lot of the same sort of consulting and coaching and executive advisory work that I've been doing over the last 15, 20 years. But now I'm doing it for myself and sending out the invoices and collecting the money on top of it. But with that comes a little bit more creative control and flexibility and taking on the projects that I want to take on and working with clients that I want to work with. So we're going to give it our best shot and see where this thing goes.
00:04:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's exciting. I think when we talked first, you were talking about that and stepping on your own wall, exciting and creative. You get the creative power and get to choose who you want to work with, which is obviously you get to pick the people. But also there's always the other stuff that goes along with your own business and all that kind of thing.
00:04:57
Speaker
maybe other stressors of dealing with, hey, I'm figuring this stuff out and scaling and all those things of all those, you know, those solpreneurs or I'm not sure if that's the language you use for yourself. So a solpreneur, is that what you would call yourself?
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think that seems to be kind of the trend now. And I'm not sure, you know, maybe the distinction on that came from the over usage of an entrepreneur. I was talking with someone the other day and they were joking about it. It's like, you know,
00:05:27
Speaker
we were having a joke about, well, who's an entrepreneur versus, it's like, dude, who's unemployed with an idea? If you have an idea and you're unemployed, that doesn't necessarily make you an entrepreneur if you're not really actioning or executing anything. So it's like, that's the distinction. So I think that some people took to the solopreneur because apparently now entrepreneurship is a big enough part of our society now, I guess, again, since we went from being entrepreneurs to where we were businesses and corporations for
00:05:57
Speaker
50 or 60 years to where people are now opening up their own blacksmith shop at the corner and banging out their own horseshoes again so we've kind of seen that full evolution to where we're coming back to where there's a lot more individual operators so i
Military to Civilian Transition and Wellness
00:06:12
Speaker
think that
00:06:12
Speaker
They must need to make a distinction between an entrepreneur and a solopreneur. Well, you don't actually have a team and it's just you. So I'm a real entrepreneur because I have 10 employees. And so now I have the employee dynamic on top of all the other back end and keeping your books, right? And bills, collecting money and whatever.
00:06:32
Speaker
That's funny. Yeah, I say it like tongue-in-cheek, but like I know it's maybe it's just a rebrand. It's a refreshed 2.0 of the language being used. I think the other I've heard another one called a YouTube preneur or something like that. That's like for a YouTuber. Yeah, like a professional YouTuber. I think that it seems like the preneur is being attached to a lot more things now.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yes, it is. Coming from the military world and I've got friends who are industrious and doing a lot of different things for like veterans who are transitioning and like business networks. And so I've heard in my little corner of the world the term veteran or being highlighted a bit more so where it used to be just you were a small veteran owned business is what it used to be. Now you're a veteran or so.
00:07:22
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. I think, I, yeah, I mean, I guess language of the day, right? I think it's the evolution of language too. It's like, yeah, that's fun. You know, how you describe yourself and I guess capitalizing on those things. Um, so I'm glad you're on by the way, Tyler, cause what I want, you know, with your background, part of, you know, and for whatever reason, I'm getting all these doors. Well, part of it, you open the door for me too. And you know, if having, you know, meeting more with first responders, meeting, having more conversations with.
00:07:50
Speaker
usually ex-special forces, ex-military operatives, usually they're not active at the time, and having these conversations. And I'm thinking a buddy of mine, John McCaskill, who I think was one of the first guys I was able to meet with, at least have a conversation with on the podcast, and talk about his experience coming out and dealing with mental wellness and recovery. And that really piqued my interest. Those that don't know, I grew up in a military family. My dad was in the Navy.
00:08:17
Speaker
I almost joined the military, almost went to the academy when I was younger. I actually wanted to be a Navy SEAL or either that, or I wanted to fly an F-14. Although, you know, because of Top Gun, that was like my vision as a kid. And then by the time I got old enough, F-14s were being phased out. And it was, you know, you know, F-18s, I think, right? F-18s. Wasn't it the F-14 that the latest or the reboot of the Top Gun movie is the F-14 was kind of the butt of jokes. And then it was
00:08:47
Speaker
the hero's journey of where it became one of the character heroes of the entire story. It was that was actually really red scene but yeah it was super rad it was a great movie by the way as far as surprisingly good when i heard about the sequel to begin with and like oh brother here we go.
00:09:05
Speaker
And then even after it came out, it's like I resisted for a long time just because it's like it's going to be a sequel. Tom Cruise is older now and it's not going to be as good. And then my wife and I were flying somewhere. And so we were on a plane that happened to have the screens and stuff. And I said, I've got the time. I'm going to go ahead and watch. I'm like, wow, this is really good.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah. And if it was that good on a tiny screen, imagine, you know, how could it be in a... Because it was really... The sound was amazing. I was like, dang, they really did a good job. So that's what I wanted to be growing up. Right. And ended up not going that route, clearly. I ended up becoming a therapist. There you go. And now my, you know, my body coach. So...
00:09:43
Speaker
But I have a huge respect for the men and women that serve. And again, being around that as a kid and going to military events and air bases. He did P3s and submarine hunters back in the day in the 80s and 90s. I think now they're at this point all pretty much decommissioned now P3s. Anyway. Well, that was a sign of the times for sure, though. That's peak Cold War. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:09
Speaker
Submarine hunting and all that stuff and counter surveillance. So yeah, he shared his stories with me Yeah in Alaska and they'd go hunting and falling around and getting intel and so I never hearing the stories the kid Tell me we were under a hundred feet ice and no and we were listening and no one knew we were there, right? Yeah
00:10:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's, you know, it's, that was the times, right? And so, you know, I hear it growing up, it's always had like a part of me was always like, I was always been intrigued and kind of drawn to that to a degree, but I just chose a different path. But, you know, kind of talking and now in the field I do work in with kind of trauma recovery and wellness and trying to help people get back and, you know, get to be more holistically healthy with,
00:10:54
Speaker
their families with themselves with their friends with their businesses you know how do we help these men and women and you know again talking with john and hearing his story and and now you know meeting with you and some a bunch of other now guys that i'm now getting connected with um it's intriguing and trying to work on
00:11:10
Speaker
you know, asking these questions of, hey, now at this stage of your life or even coming out of the military, you know, what does it look like for you being integrated? And what I mean by that is being kind of balanced and healthy psychologically, you know, physically, socially, you know, spiritually, how do we recover and what are those things you're doing? And so,
00:11:29
Speaker
kind of when I heard John's story like his one of his big tenants was you know this is you can see his platforms huge on this now which is really really amazing is really trying to bring mindfulness the practice of more specifically breath work because mindfulness is a concept I think you could apply to everyday life just being a mindful life like
00:11:50
Speaker
I'm in mindfulness right now with you because I'm very present with you. But he's really taking mindfulness, breath work to I think a whole level, especially with military, like saying, hey guys, this is huge and this has really helped my recovery from PTSD and other things. And so that's something he's kind of incorporating and trying to integrate into all that he's doing.
00:12:11
Speaker
And so I'm wondering as you think of your life right now of being integrated in all those areas, like what comes up for you? What has been your journey? And what are you doing? I guess what has that journey looked like for you and kind of where are you at now with that? And kind of what are you engaging in now to kind of be balanced and holistically healthy?
Integrating Maslow's Hierarchy and Personal Growth
00:12:30
Speaker
It's funny that you brought up the breathwork piece of it and you're right. You know, John has begun to establish himself as a real leading voice for the veteran community around, you know, being open about, you know, things that people might have going on in their life to kind of remove some of the stigma. So I think that any of the discussions or conversations that, you know, thoughtful, qualified people can have that are in the public domain, I think it kind of helps normalize some of it a bit.
00:13:00
Speaker
You might have that person that's not ready to be maybe like coming from the military, not being a public voice because most of us for the majority of our careers were not public voices. And we'll talk more about that in a minute.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm actually meeting with someone else today, and we're going to have a discussion on a podcast. And I don't know if we'll talk about it, but he's really big into breath work as well. And we'll talk some more about that after the episode. But I'm like, what a coincidence. But so I think that that's kind of bringing this back to being an integrated man. I think that's where that comes into the conversation, though, is that
00:13:38
Speaker
We're starting to see some methodologies and modalities that are being talked about and being practiced more. And it's not just one outlier that got out of the military off doing some woo woo stuff. It's more we're having normalized discussions about this. And I think the thing with the military is most of us were in a very programmed organization for a long time. And I don't mean it in a negative way. It's just it's a place where we're so mission focused that
00:14:06
Speaker
You didn't have a lot of time or thought to put into all of these other things that go on. So I think that that's why you don't really hear from active military folks so much. It's just kind of by design. But then as soon as you have folks start retiring, that's when they start taking a look at what else is out in the world outside of this very unique
00:14:29
Speaker
you know, societal subculture that, you know, we were just kind of insulated from a lot of other things and we were off doing our own stuff. And then you get out and it's like, okay, well, hello, big world. Now I need to start understanding you. So if you're someone that's struggling or suffering, it's like there are things now to kind of see, you know,
00:14:46
Speaker
what's out there conversations like this as well. Whereas I think about when I got off active duty in 2002 and then into the National Guard and kind of split time between doing military related activities as an employee and then also splitting time with military. So I would say that compared to some who did a full 20 years plus active duty and then retired, I had the benefit of a little bit more of a
00:15:16
Speaker
a phase softer landing than some of them and even then military transition can be hard, you know, from the things that you'd experienced in operations and then also basically having to make a complete culture and mindset change to new things and figuring out the world and even the way that people speak and interact and what those differences are.
Gardening as a Metaphor for Life and Growth
00:15:36
Speaker
So it's good to see things like this that are happening now to where more people are having open conversations because that's
00:15:44
Speaker
then truly how we become integrated whether it's you know through use of traditional therapies non traditional therapies non traditional medicines traditional treatments and also things like breath work and then in some cases it's even just seeing figures out in the public who have reputable experience.
00:16:02
Speaker
having real conversations about this stuff, it starts to normalize it. So even for some people who aren't maybe ready to take the step into how do I become holistic, they're starting to hear the conversations about it, and then they can decide for themselves, you know, what works for me versus what works for someone else, right?
00:16:22
Speaker
Yeah, you know how you put it right the military and like anything can have its own subculture and kind of mission focus and kind of program and not that it's necessary it's not like I said we're not going to moralize it as being good bad right wrong it's more hey this is just the culture that we lived in and there's some things within this culture that are great and some things that are like hey maybe not so effective right and right and then especially as we retire or if we're dealing with
00:16:46
Speaker
military or maybe kind of elite military, right? You know, when they come out, you know, what are they dealing with and how do they, what's been the, what has been the program or for lack of a better word, to have holistic health and, you know, what does it look like within and is it effective and is, or are they missing other pieces and components missing? And, you know, because then we come out, like you said, it's like, oh, hello, new world. And oh, there's other things and there's things I haven't thought about it. Maybe I haven't talked about it.
00:17:15
Speaker
and then you begin to look at what it's like to heal if I need to or become more holistically healthy integrated outside of that context and that could be a big transition and in some cases it could be really helpful because maybe hey we this really wasn't discussed here but wait a second there's all this other stuff and wow these are really effective maybe breath work is more normalized and not that it's not happening but at least my conversation with John and some other guys is like hey I think there was some of it that was good and some of it that was behind so to speak in that military setting
00:17:45
Speaker
Well, and rightfully so, not that it's good, but rightfully so in that it's, again, not a negative statement, but these are inherently bureaucratic.
00:17:58
Speaker
organizations. They're departments of the government, so they're extremely large. There are steps that are involved with making budget and funding and the decisions around what we're going to invest that in possible. In a lot of cases, the services and the military is even their leading edge stuff in terms of
00:18:19
Speaker
You know, service member cares is probably lags a little bit just as a consequence of the administration that they have to go through to get it. So I don't think it's, you know, it's not necessarily a case of there's not some big it's not conspiratorial around let's have treatment modalities that are 10 or 15 years behind the times. I think it's just a matter of.
00:18:38
Speaker
probably practitioners knowing what right looks like and it just takes a while to get through the bureaucratic process and so I think in a lot of cases then you know purely anecdotally but you probably have folks that are getting whatever treat folks who've either a taking the step to get whatever kinds of mental health treatment is available while they're in the service and it may be 10 or 15 years you know behind the times in some cases
00:19:05
Speaker
And then they exit the service and then they might have a, I mean, it's essentially like the US postal service versus Amazon, right? You go from a public sector to a private sector model and you see kind of the differences and the pluses and minuses of both. So I think people are dealing with that.
00:19:24
Speaker
You know also what's interesting and kind of going back to the last point too it's like a lot of people who are separating from the service they're seeing here's this big new world out there and how do i and i basically a component in the machine how do i take myself out of one and how do i integrate into this new machine which is. Much more fluid much more dynamic.
00:19:45
Speaker
it's more diverse it moves faster but the thing that's kind of cool about it particularly with folks who retire from the service is that we're all kind of starting to reach that age in our lives you know we're in our late 30s in early 40s and to mid 40s in a lot of cases when we're retiring and that's when folks are starting to take a look in the mirror whether you served or not
00:20:08
Speaker
and really starting to have some real reflections about your life and it's like what have i done and what's my impact and and so folks at that point we've all been hyper focused on getting an education getting the best job we we can you know finding our life partners that we're gonna you know that it's gonna make a good team that that last and and then on top of that you know you have your
00:20:31
Speaker
you know you're just life aspirations and those lifetime goals that are outside of anything professional and you kind of arrive at that point in your life so it's really an exciting and scary time then for people who are exiting from the military because you know physiologically they're starting to have those reflections as a person in their late 30s to mid 40s about it's like well what's my legacy what am I really doing here and have I been prioritizing the right things or
00:20:57
Speaker
maybe I did prioritize the right things, but now my priorities are changing as I'm kind of entering into middle age and what does the second half look like, right? And then on top of that, you're doing it in a completely new system. So a lot of stuff going on for people who separate, you know, in terms of where they're at in their life and their age, and then also just being in a completely new operating environment for lack of better terms, right?
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah. Can you speak more about that even for your experience? Something that kind of piqued my interest is that, Hey, we're, we're looking in the mirror, so to speak, and reflecting on, you know, kind of life's purpose, life work. What am I doing? You know, what do I really care about? And, you know, from your journey coming out, you know, military leaving, you know, you did contract work too, kind of more private, you know, it's kind of a blending of the two private public sector, but still kind of not your own thing and contract work and,
00:21:50
Speaker
and then coming out now and now doing your own thing. And it's been not even, you know, not even a year, but you know, what does that look like for you of not only on the business side, but more like I'm more intrigued by what's it looking like in the internal side of Tyler of, you know, as he's reflecting on his life and looking at what I really want to care about, what's my legacy purpose now, my, you know, if I'm in my forties.
00:22:11
Speaker
I have my life partner, I've chosen well there and to be a good team, which by the way, is always a good thing to choose wisely. So that's good. Yeah, one less stressor becomes a benefit instead of a hindrance in your operation. So you want your partner to be beneficial to you in your life operations. And likewise, you wanna be an effective stakeholder for them and theirs as well. I mean, not to over business,
00:22:40
Speaker
You know, my marriage, but I mean, in a sense it is, you know, I mean, we're a corporation and we have to be able to communicate effectively and add value where we can.
00:22:49
Speaker
Yeah, and work well together in team and support, all those things, right? You have to, because otherwise it becomes a significant stressor, right? So that could be, you know, if you have a good team, it becomes a stress reliever. And of course, even with a good team, you're gonna have stressed moments, there's gonna be conflict, but hey, if you navigate it well, it actually increases intimacy, increases vulnerability and connection, right? All those things, right? I mean, because every couple has conflict. Anyway, that's a side note.
00:23:15
Speaker
You know, what is, you know, as far as Tyler having looking in the mirror now and reflecting on his life and the work he's, work that you're doing now, you know, as you look at kind of integration between psychological, you know, your business, social, you know, physical, spiritual, you know, what is it looking like now in this transition from kind of coming out of the 20 years and retiring and now stepping into this, like the kind of the under the hood, so to speak, what's going on for Tyler as he's venturing out and doing this thing?
00:23:44
Speaker
So I look a lot to Maslow's hierarchy. I think that he was correct in how he formed it. So I apply it to my own life as well as my business and I consider it when I'm consulting clients as well. So you have to
00:24:01
Speaker
and it's and it's one of those things it's not like you arrive at the next stage whether you go from basic physiological needs to you know safety and security is you know love and relationships esteem and then of eventually yourself actualized you know i think that there's work that continues to go into all of it it's just some of your priorities change over time where it's like early on you're at the bottom of that pyramid it's like,
00:24:24
Speaker
having enough money so you have some flexibility to have some time to focus on things that are maybe just for you like lifetime goals and achievements as opposed to professional accolades and career success in those types of things so i would say that of course physically i'm i'm far past my prime now but i think in terms of my emotions and
00:24:45
Speaker
in my mind i'm in the best place that i've ever been and you know again when you're starting a new business or being an entrepreneur solopreneur veteran or whatever we're calling it you know there is some uncertainty that comes along with that and so if you look back to like the lower levels of mass house hierarchy it's like.
00:25:05
Speaker
Well, there's probably some increased sense of insecurity that comes along with that. Is anyone going to want what I'm selling? Is the business going to flop? Am I going to be back in the job market in two years because I didn't hit revenue numbers well enough for those types of things? But then at the same time, you have that other dynamic
00:25:25
Speaker
where you're becoming more evolved as a person to where, you know, hopefully, you know, you're knocking on the door of self actualization, which, you know, I'm certainly not self actualized yet. But I think that I have moments where I dance on that border and it feels really good.
Gardening's Social and Internal Impact
00:25:42
Speaker
And I think that where I got better at that and went from just kind of thriving at the bottom of the pyramid animalistically to where
00:25:50
Speaker
I consider myself to be a more thoughtful, empathetic, evolved person as I started to bring some other outside influences into my life and prioritize some things that weren't specifically occupationally based or career aspiration based. And so really in my mid thirties,
00:26:11
Speaker
I made a concerted effort to adopt some hobbies where I had about a 10-year stretch where I was climbing the ladder both in the military on the National Guard and Reserve side promoting all of that good stuff, people like me, good evaluations, whatever. And then also on the career side where I rapidly promoted through the ranks within a large global firm and was on track and was unknown.
00:26:34
Speaker
and known and all those things. But I came to the realization, and I won't say it wasn't like one key moment, but it was within a pretty short period of time. It's like, there's all of this stuff that I haven't done because I've been chasing this other stuff and now I have this stuff. So it's like, what do I want to do next? Do I just want to stack more of the same stuff on top as
00:26:56
Speaker
like artificial objectives? Or do I want to start incorporating some of my natural, you know, true objectives or things that I want to achieve in my life? And so I decided that I needed to start operationalizing some of these other goals and aspirations that I had, and it wasn't all just about work. So, you know, started climbing mountains, started gardening, started getting into some hobbies, you know, jumped into social media in my forties, and so been navigating and
00:27:26
Speaker
you know, figuring LinkedIn out. So there's just all these other things that aren't a direct benefit to my professional career track, but they're things that have really, you know, over the last nine, 10 years now, I would say is where I really started making a concerted effort to hobby effectively. It's rounded me out so much as a person. It's allowed me to meet other types of people. And, and so that's part of that integration as well. And you know, Travis, we were talking about it before. It's like, you're making that shift in life where you're going,
00:27:55
Speaker
from the corporation to the cooperation and you're starting to just co-op with other people like minded people or people from your demographic who maybe have different opinions and views on things and it's a chance to have discussions and kind of put a little bit more onto your hard drive to consider and you know, take some of those lessons and apply them in your own life where they're beneficial.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, and you mentioned the hobbies of like, you know, gardening and climbing, you know, what, you know, I guess from that kind of what's happening in the internal as you're, I'm just going to follow this train of thought, like as you're gardening, like, you know, what does that do for you? Like what's happening for me as a, as a, as a hobby, but what is that? I'm assuming it's also, it's a form of practice, right? So I'm just like wondering, what is that as you garden, like what's actually happening for Tyler inside psychologically, physically, emotionally, spiritually? Like, is it, what's that? I guess what is going on?
00:28:47
Speaker
So I like to refer to well gardening especially as I refer to it regularly as active meditation and I'm probably certainly not the first person to do that and since I started gardening and occasionally even post stuff about the gardening on the socials which you know at first if someone's like looking at me and they look at my you know work history and profiles like what is this guy doing right and you know kind of
00:29:10
Speaker
Taking on some of the hippie dippy stuff or stuff or whatever, but it's like I think that's all about expansion of your mind and looking into some of these other things. So specifically when I garden, I feel like it's a good extension of a lot of what I applied in business and in the military where it's.
00:29:30
Speaker
you're planning long life cycle iterative projects with gardens. Someone quoted and I don't remember who, but they essentially said that if you want to learn how to run a business effectively, plant a garden because you're essentially manning a long-term life cycle. Even if you're going to the store and buying the starter plants and planting the few seeds that you would plant in a growing season, you still have to see that through and care for it. You have to implement your program effectively.
00:29:58
Speaker
meaning you you plant your stuff at the right time you plan it correctly and then you have your operations where you're caring for that making sure your gardens we didn't all these other things all the way to the point of of harvest and then to where you're preserving food cooking food.
00:30:14
Speaker
and then like we even took on where we started composting and so we prepare in the fall where we gather all of our leaves and then in the spring we're composting again so it really turns into an iterative life cycle and I would say for me internally well one I think there's something very primal about getting your hands and
00:30:33
Speaker
in dirt and caring for a plant and much in the same way that, you know, sitting around a campfire just speaks to people wherever they are, whatever language they speak anywhere in the world. So I think that gardening is kind of one of those things that's in our DNA and just speaks to us. And for me, it really got me back to where I was more appreciative of the seasons. So I grew up on a family farm. So we were very much tied to the seasons and
00:31:01
Speaker
and how we did things when we could go places. You know, if we can take a small vacation, it wasn't going to be during certain months and all that type of stuff. And so I kind of got some of that seasonality back in my life. And I feel like me being tied to the seasons through my garden, it's allowed me to kind of have these micro reboots. Like so in the springtime, we get things ready, we get the plants and then you have a
00:31:29
Speaker
Chance to look back and have all the joy of plants popping out of the ground and you're watering and you're taking care of me getting to harvest and she have all these different phase lines and milestones that you're meeting and with each one it's like you're getting a sense of accomplishment.
00:31:44
Speaker
So as opposed to I'm just working, I come home, I make a meal, maybe I hit the gym and watch a little bit of Netflix and then we go to bed and then we do it all over again. For me, I felt like I was never resetting. Like I was always leaving the computer on because I was always doing the same things and I was never getting the updates.
00:32:04
Speaker
Whereas when I started to add things like growing my own food, having the joy of what that feels like, having a planning process that I wasn't doing for career progression or for money, but purely just because I wanted to be that really expanded my mind a lot to to live seasonally. And, you know, since I started living seasonally again, after kind of putting it on hold for about 20 years of my life, you know,
00:32:31
Speaker
I found that my software was updated a little bit better. Like I was getting the regular updates because I was going through phases and I was doing the reboots and things like that, whereas that wasn't happening before. And it's just such a better place to be in, I think. Yeah. And, and, and I'm wondering with that, that this, you know, took this on and you gave a quick example of like, you know, the rinse, repeat of business, come home, have dinner, watch Netflix, go to bed. Um, of course, you know, I'm not going to say, Hey, if you're doing that, you're somehow wrong or whatever, but,
00:33:00
Speaker
Because I've had days where, hey, after the kids go down, me and my wife will watch a show together, right? And I'm not hearing you say, you can't do that. But I think what I'm intrigued by, where I want to go with this question is that I just want to caveat this. If you do that thing, it's not a bad thing.
00:33:15
Speaker
The thing you brought up I think is more of like you're finding a practice and you said meditative practice of this process of gardening, of caring, of tending to, you know, actually getting in the dirt and the psychological impact that that's having, spiritual impact that's having of actually getting your hands dirty to having to tend and that it's really a holistic process, right, gardening, really. And I'm curious like, and you mentioned kind of meditative practice, I'm wondering how,
00:33:42
Speaker
What kind of impact have you noticed from this meditative practice of gardening? Like what has been the kind of the internal impact you noticed? Maybe a couple things positive, maybe two, three things you've noticed. And maybe what's like two, three things that you've noticed like socially or externally that's changed because of this practice.
00:34:00
Speaker
You're good at this. Thank you. I'll take that compliment. So I'll start with the latter part of it first, as far as things that have changed. When I started gardening, I felt my social circles change. And it wasn't intentionally. It was more a matter of I was trading in some things and not really people, but trading some activities.
00:34:28
Speaker
in and because I did that, it got me into other social circles and it's neither good nor bad. It was just, again, seasons and seasons change. So, you know, I've been in a lot of organizations, so I've gone through team changes, whether I change people on my team or I've got new departments or whether I went to new organizations. So,
00:34:49
Speaker
I've been fortunate just by a matter of my trajectory that I've never been stuck and stuck isn't the right word because I've had benefits from all these different organizations and people that I've worked with. But I also had the benefit of diversity because just like occupationally that changed all the time. And so I think the gardening was kind of an extension of that as well where
00:35:09
Speaker
you know i went from cuz i don't happen about the time that i was able to work from home and i wanted to take advantage of that as well so i'm literally going from putting on suits i'm working in a beautiful downtown office in a high rise have a nice office.
00:35:25
Speaker
and then you go through the routine where you probably get up early in the morning so you can get your workout in the morning, right? Maybe it doesn't feel natural then, you do a whole day at the office, then you and your colleagues, you know, go out for a happy hour or something like that on a couple days a week or whatever and you talk shop and strategy and all this stuff. So, I mean, it was all productive stuff, but I started to get in that pattern where it's like all the conversation started to be kind of the same and I wasn't really learning anything more
00:35:55
Speaker
Outside of you know in a new inject into like our business life. Well, we got a new client So we're talking about that, right? But it was a lot of the same patterns and repeat so I started working from home planted the garden dropped a bunch of weight and I was even out of the office where I'd used to work for quite some time and I went in one day and I was training for a marathon so I'm what was much sleeker and I
00:36:20
Speaker
And people are like, oh, is Tyler sick? He lost a bunch of weight. It's like, no, I just, I feel great. I'm getting ready to run a marathon. I'm getting ready to do all of these other things. That's just a small example of kind of like changing your environment and by adding some new things into it. And it's not to say that, you know, I'm still friends with those people and we'll get together and we talk on the phone or whatever else.
00:36:43
Speaker
You know, occasionally it's like, Oh, Hey, you want to come downtown? We're going to go across the street for happy hour or whatever. So yeah, sure. I'll come down as well. But I was adding and integrating other things into that. So maybe instead of a couple of days a week, it became once a month, I would go see that group and I would get the download on that stuff and share what I had going on as well.
00:37:01
Speaker
but then, you know, I was out in my garden and doing that. So then I'm starting to talk to people who garden and do, um, do that. And so you're kind of, you're just integrating things in because yeah, to your point, you know, some days it is you work all day and you're lucky if you get a work in workout and you eat before nine o'clock at night and watch a little bit of Netflix with the misses and then, you know, go to bed. So that, that happens, but
00:37:25
Speaker
You have to make a concerted effort to kind of integrate some of those other things in and really apply the effort to things just for the effort's sake and see what comes along with it without any real expectation of a direct benefit, at least immediately. But you'll see that a lot of those benefits that you hadn't even anticipated start to enter into your life by trying new things.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah, when I think of practices and habits, right? So I mean, obviously, to make a quick example, like if my practice or habit is daily, you know, come home after work, food, Netflix, go to bed, and that becomes your ritual of habit and practice, there's going to be an outcome of that. Like if that's kind of what you do, you know, and so that there's going to be, you know, like anything, a consequence, an outcome, a byproduct of that kind of life of that of that
Managing Anxiety and Stress
00:38:15
Speaker
practice. And so
00:38:16
Speaker
And often a lot of men I do work with initially is that, you know, that kind of to some degree is their daily practice, where there's not a lot of reflection, health, integration, growth, awareness of internal self, psychologically, or reflection on how am I actually doing, because it is kind of like this rinse, repeat.
00:38:36
Speaker
And then over time, you start to see kind of, you know, the degradation or the, the byproduct of that kind of way of living and often, you know, increased stress. Maybe they're engaging other behaviors that aren't so effective for them. Maybe, you know, they're not, they're feeling low, maybe more anxious, more stressed out. Right. And that, and that creates like this snowball effect.
00:38:54
Speaker
They're not really getting anywhere, but it makes it harder to start again to like even someone who's maybe like in his example someone who's fitness minded and goes to the gym a few days a week or they go out and get runs, but then they have a conference for a week and they weren't able to work out or.
00:39:10
Speaker
you know, maybe they got injured and so they weren't able to work out. So again, that part of the routine was gone. And even if like you're a lifelong athlete or fitness focused, it's hard to start again. Like it's easy to, it's like, all right, this week I need to get back into the workout routine. I'm healed up or I'm back home or whatever, whatever that barrier was to not doing that habit for a week or two.
00:39:34
Speaker
And so you get back to that, it's easy to say, well, I'll do it Monday. Well, I got busy on Monday, Tuesday. And then people look back, it's like, I haven't done anything in five years and I feel terrible and my life is a mess or whatever else. And it's like, I'm not in shape I want to be in. And it's like, it's so easy to lose those healthy habits and then just let them
00:39:57
Speaker
fall to the wayside. So you really have to be deliberate about obviously you have priorities to set. And again, looking to Maslow's hierarchy, there are things at the bottom of that pyramid that aren't always sexy, but you need to take care of those. But then when you get into that middle area, you actually need to put some effort towards those things that have nothing to do with like immediate benefit, because they're how you get to self actualization.
00:40:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, going back to what you said about the, you know, finding this new habit for you, gardening, you know, I think it's a great image, great analogies. And I'm still wondering, what is one positive shift you've noticed inside internally for, for Tyler since this gardening practice? What is something that he's noticed grow change, maybe something's decreased, maybe something's lessened in his life inside. I'm just, I'm just kind of curious.
00:40:49
Speaker
So again, I liken it to living seasonally or getting back in touch with seasonality. I would say that the biggest internal benefit, which has become an external benefit for people that I
00:41:05
Speaker
work with, deal with, whether it's clients, whether it's family, whether it's friends, whatever, is I've become more patient. So, I mean, I'm indoctrinated in being a strategic thinker, right? But it brought back some of that patience with the seasonality. It's like, you know, we have these things to do, but the cycle is the cycle and I can only push it so hard. It's only going to grow fast and certain things are going to have
00:41:30
Speaker
certain things are going to happen at certain times. And can I care for my garden? Can I water correctly? Can I make sure that I can do all of these things to maximize the outcome, but the outcome is still within that plan, right? And as opposed to, well, I can just throw resources or effort or will at it and I can accelerate it. Some things just don't work that way.
00:41:53
Speaker
And so I would say that human relationships are a lot like that as well, where there's only so much you can force someone, there's only so much you can pitch someone, there's only so much you can try and influence someone to the point where it maybe will make that relationship
00:42:10
Speaker
For a lack of words, I mean, it'll make your relationship so that it's just not as productive as it can be, right? Because you're trying to artificially force a construct onto the relationship, the personal relationship, the business relationship, the operational relationship that isn't really possible.
00:42:29
Speaker
some people aren't going to be your friends, some people aren't going to buy from you or some people maybe will, but sometimes it might take six months. So you have to, you have to consider that over a six month window and this people aren't just going to bend for you the same way that you're just not going to bend for other people. And so the seasonality and the really the tactical patience comes into play where I know that there's certain things that I can't force. And I think that that's made me probably
00:42:57
Speaker
a better person to work for, for folks that have worked for me and also a better partner to work with. And I say that socially as well as professionally. Yeah. Well, and I would assume too, because much like a garden, like the pay, you're right. You can't, you can't force it to grow. Like you said, and there has to be, you can help it, you can help facilitate it, but, but, but there's a ceiling to those outcomes and you have to accept that there's ceilings to outcomes and you know,
00:43:25
Speaker
Because especially when you consider all the information that we're inundated with every day now, and you have hustle culture and grind culture, and there's someone who made their first million by 26, like Alex Hermosi, and you've got David Goggins who can run 180 miles and all this other stuff. And then all of a sudden, it's like, well, I'm in my 40s, and I haven't accumulated a million dollars, at least not at one place in time.
00:43:54
Speaker
Maybe I've done it in totality, but it's not really the same thing. I can run a decent marathon, but I can't go 180. It's where you start to appreciate more that your systems and your ecosystem is different than everybody else's. Do what you can to maximize within your own, but also understand that you're going to have limitations. A lot of the examples that we see
00:44:19
Speaker
that influence us and I think give people a lot of anxiety around they're not doing enough like because I wasn't, I didn't make a million dollars when I was 26. I can't run 180 miles. I can, you know, I can run a long ways, but not that far is that in some of those cases, these are extreme examples. And in a lot of those, in a lot of those extreme cases that we then set as our marker, they don't really apply when you're
00:44:48
Speaker
more integrated or a more holistic person because a lot of those people who are reaching those pinnacles within those areas that becomes then the marker that society has to try and meet, they're doing that at the expense of other things in most cases.
00:45:03
Speaker
And I think that's what most people don't realize, they see a glimpse, they see a piece of someone's life, you know? And then that's the marker versus like, what's the whole person look like outside of that glimpse? And often you'll see there's some sacrifices, maybe plural, being made and those can be great dependent upon the person now.
00:45:24
Speaker
And as something else that came to mind as you're talking about gardening and this whole thing is a lot of just acceptance, acceptance of, hey, I'm gonna do what I can and in a way learn and grow. And also know that to some degree, I have a lot, if not ton that I can't control.
00:45:41
Speaker
especially with gardening, right? You know, there's a lot you can control, but there's also, you know, the weather could turn and have a really bad, you know, it could get too hot and that could burn things, it could get too cold and freeze. I mean, so there's some degree we have to accept that and move with the changing of the seasons of like, hey, I have a lot of control, but it's a lot like I don't have to practice acceptance of everything in your garden. Like, well, I want this to grow by the end of the week and I'm going to try and push it. Well, you could,
00:46:07
Speaker
I'm gonna keep watering, right? Well, that's gonna kill the plant, right? Or the harvest. So to some degree, there's a lot of letting go, I think, in gardening, like allowing it to take its own time in a way that I have a component. And I think it's very, I think what a great practice of practice patience versus being on like this device, social media, because going from an everything's instant, I want it now, or I want to have that millionaire, I want to run 180, it's like,
00:46:35
Speaker
It's a lot of letting go and guarding, I would say, too. A lot of just, hey, you have to slow
Balancing Digital and Tactile Experiences
00:46:42
Speaker
down, right? It forces you to slow down, to pay attention to the details. You know, it forces you to kind of breathe and take the moment in, to understand weather patterns. That takes time. It's not fast, like it's not quick by any stretch of the imagination. And it could be dependent upon what you are doing.
00:46:59
Speaker
very labor intensive, you don't really see the results right away. And even then in the harvest, your results may be amazing. It may be kind of, oh man, what happened? When some of those are under the ground, so you can't even tell until you're literally right there. So there are some things like I can see how well my tomatoes are doing and I can see how well my peas are doing.
00:47:24
Speaker
you have no idea how well your carrots are doing until the last moment so so there's so there's a level of anxiety that can come along with that and uncertainty that's like all these i have these beautiful potato plants and they look great there's two potatoes under each one so what am i doing here and i just spent all this effort on it but that's part of it
00:47:45
Speaker
And one quick question, since you mentioned it, when you get with anxiety, it's a common thing we deal with in society today. And a lot of people, I think, are overly stressed and anxious. What's one simple practice that you do when you notice anxiety rise in you? What's kind of a simple thing you engage in? Well, I mean, I follow some of the same general practices that are I'm not breaking any news here with some of these methods, but, you know, it's
00:48:11
Speaker
It's like when you get the email from somebody and you already kind of have some preconceived notions about the situation where you're probably already pissed about something or you're in a debate or a point of disagreement. And so I found this with myself where, you know, I start when I start loud typing.
00:48:31
Speaker
I know that I just need to take a step back, you know, in some cases, and you know, everyone's, everyone's typed the pissed email. If you find yourself typing the pissed email, and even saying the words as you type it and using a voice to do it, it's probably a good idea to take a step back and, and, and let it sit in a draft, reconsider it. And so because those are the situations where, you know, again, we might get a little bit animalistic then and
00:49:00
Speaker
and we kind of get into like a fight or flight type of situation where we either shut down on who we're working with or we want to beat them right at whatever the game happens to be and sometimes that ends up being destructive and so some of that's on impulse whereas again
00:49:17
Speaker
Let's think about it seasonally. Maybe it's Tuesday. Maybe we're talking Tuesday. So that's maybe instead of this long, mad email, I just wrote, it's like, okay, I think we have some, let's, let's talk more about this when we meet on Thursday. Right. So that might be just a way to kind of let the temperature come down a little bit.
00:49:35
Speaker
and then have a productive discussion about it so you know i do things like that will take a step back from the situation just to kind of evaluate myself and then kind of more is normal practice outside of like specific situations again like the gardening.
00:49:53
Speaker
I do other things that I'm not so much of like a pure meditation guy. I've tried it. I haven't, I haven't figured it out in a replicable way before for myself yet, but I'm working on that. But active meditation is a big one for me. So like the gardening is big. But you know, I post on social media about it recently, I started weaving a gill net for no other reason than just because it's like,
00:50:18
Speaker
It's something that you can do that kind of makes use of your hands. And I like those tactile things too because, you know, I take a look back at my life and I was telling my wife, it's like, you know, for the last 10 or 15 years, I've been doing corporate stuff and I haven't really been in the field quite as much. I've been more on the leadership. And it's like, if there was an EMP tomorrow and all the computers were gone and the electricity was gone or,
00:50:44
Speaker
It's like I didn't even exist. I mean, it's all spreadsheets and memos. And yes, it was like coordinating people and moving things around in real time. But those things, it's like they don't exist now. Maybe they left an impact. So it's like nice having those tactile things. And I think people need that. They need a sense of accomplishment that's more than
00:51:05
Speaker
I helped the company hit revenue number and I got a bonus. I'll create cool story, but let someone paint their garage and then they're going to sit in the lawn chair and drink a couple of beers and just look at the garage they just painted. So I think people need some of those tactile things as well. And if you don't have a big project, make a project. Even if you're sitting and doing Netflix while you're doing it, have something in your hands, work a little bit. And I think it's a good outlet.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah, and I think, you know, you mentioned two things and then we'll start to wrap up. One, and I think you're right, it's like even the stuff I talk about is not necessarily, to some degree, not nothing new, but it's more about, and we were talking about this offline, is having more men talking about practices like this, normalizing it, because I think a lot of men, to some degree, have a lot of resistance to some of these kind of, you know, other possible woo-woo practices to quote you. And so even taking a step back,
00:51:57
Speaker
Sometimes for a lot of guys, they may not do that practice of just, hey, just pause and take, you know, take 20, take, take two days, take a day and then come back when you're more collected and not so much in a maybe heightened state of anxiety, you know, and what do you need to do to kind of bring yourself down? What are some practices to kind of walk you down so you can be more clear minded and not cause damage in a moment on an impulse.
00:52:20
Speaker
not create more suffering, right? Unneeded suffering because that's when we make a mistake is it's stressful and then we react and then our reactions can cause a whole bunch of damage. Well, we project our feelings in that moment on to other people and then it snowballs as opposed to it's like someone's got to break that season and there is a season for conflict, right? And discourse. Sure. But let it pass then too and move on into the next season and grow again.
00:52:49
Speaker
Yeah, there is such thing as effective conflict, right? Absolutely. Effective conflict or effective fighting, right? You know, I think about the Gottman's recent released a book, they're researchers in couples therapy, like 50 years of research, the most researched, they're like the pinnacle of researchers, but they just released a book called Fight Right. You know, it's all about, hey, you're gonna fight, we'll do it right. You know, like how do you do it well within a cup, within like an intimate relationship and how do you use that as a means to increase connection intimacy. So there is such a thing as healthy conflict.
00:53:18
Speaker
And so taking a step back, I think, is sometimes one of the best things you could do in a moment. And that even though it's simple in practice, it's not like complicated, the effect can be massively positive and keep you from creating unneeded suffering or pain or, you know, making things worse for yourself for those around you.
00:53:39
Speaker
And then I love what you said too and I want to just reiterate that I think they're yes active meditative practices or active mindfulness practices with your hands. Absolutely. I think there's something is like walking meditations like yes movement for some people is very effective because it helps engage that kind of the whole body too which to some degree is even easier because you're not just
00:54:00
Speaker
I think people think of meditation or mindfulness. You've just got to sit down with your legs crossed and hands like this and hum and just listen to a bowl and be silent. Now that might be your cup of tea and that might be very helpful for you. But for a lot of people, that is not helpful for them. In fact, for some people it can cause more anxiety because it's too much for them. It's like, wait, what? So that's A type.
00:54:25
Speaker
But other types, and I think that's why I commented on your net. I'm like, hey, I could see how that in and of itself can be very meditative, very calming because it's very intentional. You have to be mindful. You have to slow down and breathe. And my guess is a lot of moments of frustration and what you do with that frustration because you could be like, well, F this net and toss it and throw it. And I'm sure there was moments that you're like,
00:54:47
Speaker
Why am I doing this? And then you come back and it's kind of teaching you to like deal with that pressure intention, even guarding too of like noticing the emotional rise of frustration or in, you know, impatience and coming down and riding that wave. And I think what a great way to practice actively. So I think those are amazing skills that you found that are highly beneficial for you.
00:55:09
Speaker
Well, you know, the other thing too is that again, we kind of, and again, me saying is purely anecdotally, you understand it better than I do, but it's only been in like the last what, 40 years, 30, 40 years that we've truly been in like the information and digital age.
00:55:26
Speaker
Prior to that, it was what, tens of thousands of years that we were kind of doing the same stuff. We were going out and fishing. We were going out and hunting. We were making a fire. So a lot of this stuff is still on our hard drive. And a lot of it, it's like, it's not that we've intentionally ignored it, but I think we under appreciate
00:55:45
Speaker
How much is part of our makeup and those things need those outlets as well Whereas I wear a suit I go into work I work from home and I do stuff with emails and I make some calls and I coordinate so someone somewhere is doing something because of my input but I'm not doing the thing and maybe the thing has some permanence or maybe it's just a service and it's a temporary to where it's gone, but how are we then addressing those tactile things where we're actually creating something not because
00:56:15
Speaker
Not because the work we're doing as a service or digitally isn't important, but we need to have some of these other things. I think people go fishing, people go camping, people do these other things, people go to the gym. You need to have some of those things that are really tactile because it's a part of who you are. I think that if we get removed from it, where we're just looking at a screen, it's like you're in the matrix and are you really existing anymore?
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, and it is about that kind of, it's about integration and healthy, holistic practices. And this last weekend, I did backyard camping with my boys. Had a fire. I love sitting. One of my favorite things is just sitting in front of a fire. Just silence for hours. I love it. You've mentioned it. It's one of my favorite. I could do it every day.
00:57:07
Speaker
It's mesmerizing. It speaks to people no matter where they are, socioeconomic class. It doesn't matter. I mean, even to the extent that you ever want to get a bump on a social media post, put a five second clip of a campfire on that bad boy or put a picture of a campfire. There are some things that just undeniably speak to people. So it's important for us, those things that truly just inherently speak to us. We should indulge those interests when we can.
00:57:37
Speaker
And my middle son, I think of him, and we'll kind of wrap up. He loves that, like he is.
00:57:44
Speaker
It's like, he just, my oldest son too, he's also intrigued, but when I watched my middle son, my second son, Eli, he's so into it. And he'll just sit there and just kind of, you see him kind of engaging with it and watching his face and his body language and the calmness that comes over him and kind of like, the effect it has. Even if I think of his nervous system, he's four and a half, he's a mover, he wants to, and not that he sits there for an hour, because he wants to move.
00:58:14
Speaker
He wants to be four still and he's got to integrate some other, he's got to integrate the other things that go along with his fourness. Totally. And his fourness too also teaches me something about being out and moving as well. Like there's something about this natural drive to want to move and you know, that can in a way is part of our culture now for hyper behind a computer. We're not moving enough anyway. That's a whole other podcast. But you know, watching him is like this, this thing that that fire nature is, is a calming effect and kind of meditative and,
00:58:43
Speaker
you know it slows things down and there's this interaction between the fire and it is mesmerized because he is mesmerized by it you know he's sitting there just kind of watching it and engaging with it and it is very calming and so it's cool to watch the impact on him even at four and a half and just watching how he's impacted by it and just
00:59:01
Speaker
not, you know, not trying to shape or move it, but just observe him. Even for me, it's like a whole other practice of observing another being. And so that's a whole other, we could probably have a whole podcast on that, which we probably should. It'll be interesting to see what he does when he grows up. Cause it seems like he's probably pretty in tune with some of that stuff we've been talking about. So you never know if you'd be surprised to see him out and maybe he'll be in the woods someday doing something professionally with that.
00:59:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's me and my wife say that I think that's where our oldest is more math, you know, he's like, you know, deconstructing, you know, cars. I mean, he's just, it's all like engineer, math, you know, numbers, that kind of stuff, you know, that's where he's at, his brain. So different wiring, where I find like my middle one is more like that physical nature, just like getting in it
Business Focus and Conclusion
00:59:54
Speaker
like,
00:59:54
Speaker
He's out every time it rains, he's hunting for worms and collecting them and putting them in our composter. Seems like he has a good sense for seasonality. He does, so I'm trying to cultivate that and my older son and what intrigues him and piques him. My daughter, she's just a hellion right now, so I don't know yet, but she's the wildest one of the bunch, which is funny.
01:00:17
Speaker
My youngest, anyway, but as we wrap up, two things. One, random, I know, but this is the new phase with being the integrated man project right now. It's something that I find very beneficial in my life, is music. So with that said, what's something you're currently listening to? What are you listening to on repeat? Or what's kind of got your interest in music?
01:00:36
Speaker
So it was probably about six months ago, maybe a little bit more, when the Oliver Anthony kind of swept the nation, the North of Richmond song. So like everyone else, I listened to that on repeat for a couple of days. But it got me onto a YouTube channel. It's called Radio West Virginia. OK.
01:01:00
Speaker
And so there are a lot of artists kind of from that Virginia, West Virginia, kind of northern Appalachian influence. And so I find to where I've watched it enough on YouTube now, where when I listen and work, kind of that Appalachian mountain plus probably a hint of bluegrass in there as well. And it's
01:01:24
Speaker
And it just really works for me when I'm working because it kind of flows like a breeze a little bit so it doesn't take my mind off the work, but it also gives me something. And Oliver Anthony, wonderful song. It came from the soul a bit.
01:01:44
Speaker
I'm glad that it blew up. But now that I like listen to Radio West Virginia, it's like, man, there's a lot of good stuff on here. Again, like anything else, you've got some indie artists that maybe it's a little bit rough, but that you kind of take it with a grain of salt. But it's like, man, there's some really, really interesting people talking about important things out here through song. And it's like, you know, artful commentaries on the state of society, what we've gained, you know, what we've lost, maybe some of the ills of
01:02:13
Speaker
the ills of convenience cuz i think we've been talking about that kind of quite a bit there's like the benefits of modernization and the convenience that comes along with that but there's kind of the ills of that too that we always have to be on we always have to be crushing it we always have to be going
01:02:30
Speaker
You know we have to we have to be as good as business at her as as her mosey is you know we have to be as good at running as david goggins and there's all these other people at these pinnacles and then we start driving ourselves nuts so in a sense it's great that.
01:02:46
Speaker
we're interconnected digitally so we can see all these influences and it helps the human condition to where we can extend and push what's possible as human beings but at the same time is a lot of time i feel like i'm just an average dude out here trying to survive my day so for me it's important to kind of take the good elements of this digital pandora's box for the influence and the inspiration but then also understanding that you know
01:03:11
Speaker
I can't go out and train eight hours a day. So I'm not going to be David Goggins. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do the other thing, but I can take some of those elements and integrate them into my own life. So yeah. No, well, well said. Totally well said. Absolutely right. I'm going to check out Radio West Virginia. Yeah. Check it out. I'm intrigued. I like asking too personally because I also want to expand what I'm listening to. So what do you like, Grace?
01:03:37
Speaker
oh right now i have been listening to hold on well there's been a lot of the frozen soundtrack and uh love it that's been on constant um because my daughter's like right into it or the bluey album those because my kids like bluey so it's more of like that this is just by but they're in their car this is what we're listening to lately so aladdin soundtrack so they
01:04:02
Speaker
So it's been, the Aladdin soundtrack, if anything, has brought me back to my childhood and growing up with those Disney movies and like thinking through. So it was more of like, oh yeah, I remember this when I first saw this movie. But outside of what my kids are listening to, I think what I've been listening to, hold on, I have to go, it's like if I'm looking on Spotify, it's like it's all the kids stuff. So it's like scroll through, what did I actually choose?
01:04:28
Speaker
And I would say something that, and I said this more recently, something I've seen too on vinyl is a couple of things when going back and forth is either the Phoenix, it's a French band, kind of indie rock band called Phoenix.
01:04:44
Speaker
and then their latest album and then the other one I've been going back and forth with and just for the past few months I've been kind of coming back to it was the postal services record because they had the 20-year anniversary tour of really seeing that record so I got to see them with my wife and some friends at the Hollywood Bowl and they nice and so I bought the repressed vinyl of that and you know the kids will dance to it and
01:05:08
Speaker
I think music we love music in this house will do a lot dance parties and stuff and they like that they like the vinyl and they like that cuz it over the digital digital music so it's fun to see kids what you know what their natural so is that your is that your preference or you the vinyl guy in the house and everyone else is co-opted into that then.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yeah, so it's more of a recent hobby and I mean past few years but the kids actually I remember my oldest son he used to kind of just put his head by it you know when he was like two and he was really into it so they would they would ask they'll ask more for it and I'm like oh let's play it on here on the digital and they're like no no no and they go over there and
01:05:47
Speaker
The problem is I don't have every record. So I'm like, well, I don't have it on this. So we have to do digital. So they'll get into it, but they, they, their natural draw is like that analog stuff. It's interesting. Um, and they'll kind of get close to it and feel it. And it seems like for you too, because you like me are, are in the service industry, right? So a lot of what you do is it's tangible in its results, but it's, but it's very intangible in by nature.
01:06:14
Speaker
So it almost feels like, you know, we've been talking about this and it seems like your interest in vinyl is adding the tactile part into your love for music. Totally. Yeah. And I play guitar and I do all that kind of stuff too. And so it's fun and, you know, I have instruments. So I love the tactile. So I think you're right.
01:06:31
Speaker
It's the whole experience. You go to the store, you think about the record you want to buy, you can pick it up, then you can listen to it. You're immersing yourself into the physical aspects of that passion, right? Yeah, and it forces you to slow down, right? So I think the balance of slowing down as well as the modern day stuff I think is kind of this theme of
01:06:52
Speaker
how do we balance the modern day amenities and positive things that's enabled to engage, like even us having a conversation, you know, it's like it enables us to do this easily. And also how do we still use kind of the stillness of slowing down tactile because we need both and you know, kind of integrating both. So, you know, we're building that double edged sword effectively, man, you summed it up so perfectly, you know, take the best of both parts of it and don't get, don't get, don't get cut in the process.
01:07:22
Speaker
Yeah, you need both, because both have huge positives. But I think to the extreme, both can also, they can be, you can get stuck. And so, you know, with that said, hey, if someone wants to find Tyler and wants to work with Tyler, you know, who's listening to this, where can we find you? What's the best way?
01:07:38
Speaker
thank you for asking so my company is winsley we've we focus on high performance executive coaching plus i do consultancy work and as an extension of it i do some strategy work and even a little bit of strategy work on linkedin uh where i offer a course and i can do some refresh and and some b2b advisory work you know
01:08:00
Speaker
leveraging LinkedIn as a CRM, so really kind of a full suite of traditional consulting services through a smaller shop. I tend to specialize more with smaller founders and mid-sized companies, and I'll leave the big Fortune 500s to McKinsey, and they can continue to chase that business. But to that end, the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. I'm pretty easy to find. So, Winsley's my company. I'm Tyler Schmoker, and
01:08:27
Speaker
you know, if you're interested in working with me or hearing more, I'd love to hear from you. We can set up a discovery call and see if we might be a fit. Yeah. Well, Tyler, thank you for your time. It's been a pleasure having you on and a great conversation. So thank you so much. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you so much, man. See ya.