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From Temper to Triumph: Breath Work and Radical Acceptance for Dads (feat. Cory Jenks)
93 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to Episode 102 of The Integrated Man Project! In this episode, host Travis Goodman sits down with Cory Jenks, a pharmacist, improv comedian, author, and father of three. Together, they dive into the profound impacts of breath work, radical acceptance, and emotional regulation in parenting. Cory shares candid stories about the challenges of fatherhood, such as unmet expectations and managing stress, emphasizing the importance of humor and practical advice in parenting literature.
You'll hear about Cory's new book, “I Guess I'm a Dad Now, A Humorous Handbook for Newish Dads Who Don't Want to Suck,” aimed at providing dads with relatable and amusing guidance. This episode explores the often overlooked emotional journeys of fathers, breaking negative cycles, and the crucial role of community and support networks. Whether you’re a new dad, experienced parent, or simply interested in emotional growth and self-reflection, this conversation is sure to offer valuable insights and heartfelt moments. Plus, stay tuned for an exclusive peek into our membership community designed to support your journey as an integrated man. Tune in and get ready to be informed, inspired, and entertained!
HIGHLIGHTS
1. **Breath Work and Emotional Regulation:**
Cory and I delve into the benefits of breath work in controlling emotions and the critical need to be aware of one's nervous system state. Cory shares his personal experiences of realizing the need to pause when he becomes snappy and impatient, often during stressful periods like bedtime routines or meeting deadlines.
2. **Radical Acceptance and Managing Expectations:**
We discuss the concept of radical acceptance—embracing reality without resistance. Cory provides compelling examples, such as handling the frustration of his kids getting sick and disrupting plans, and how he's learned to find joy in unexpected moments.
3. **Humor in Parenting:**
Cory emphasizes the significance of humor for dads in parenting, making the process more enjoyable and less daunting. He found that traditional parental literature was often dry, leading him to gear his own writing towards making dads laugh while providing practical advice.
How do you practice radical acceptance in your daily life, particularly when facing unexpected challenges with your kids or other responsibilities? What strategies help you manage those emotions and refocus on the positive moments?
Looking forward to your insights! See you in the episode!
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Transcript
Introduction and Call for Feedback
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project podcast. Before we jump into this week's episode, I did want to share about an exclusive membership I want to be launching to help shape the Integrated Man Project community. If this is something you'd be interested in, where you will be co-laboring with me, sharing your ideas, giving input, giving me feedback, part of kind of this process of creating something bigger and better for all men, I would love for you to join. And if this is something you're interested, please reach out to me, email me at integratedmanproject at gmail dot.com. You could also send me a direct message on Instagram as well or on LinkedIn. I would love for you to reach out to me. I would love for you to be part of this exclusive group to help again, shape and form this integrated man community.
00:00:50
Speaker
ah Because as you do this, as we share in this journey together, we're going to create a community of men around the world where we become more grounded, more adaptable, more resilient, and more authentic men. So come on and join. If you're interested in this, please reach out to me. And without further ado, let's get into this week's episode.
Welcome Corey
00:01:16
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Integrated Man Project Podcast. I'm excited for this guest to join us for the conversation today, tonight, this afternoon, morning, whenever you're tuning in, listening. um I'm excited to to kind of jump in. And before we kind of get into the topic, I just wanted to welcome Corey to the show.
Family Life and Parenting Challenges
00:01:34
Speaker
How are you doing this evening, Corey? Never better. I'm here with you. but what What better place could it be? we're getting We're getting our kids down to bed, getting them all potty trained up. We're we're good to go. This is this a good life. Okay, yeah, yeah, kids in bed, potty training. um Yeah, we were just talking just a moment ago in the virtual green room about um being a dad of three kids, kind of like getting them down and audibles happening throughout the night, things moving and shifting. um Actually, um my wife just walked by, he didn't see this, it's kind of secret. She grabbed the water bottle from my oldest son to go to his room. um And here we are, like you said, and what a better place to be.
00:02:10
Speaker
um So where are you at right now, Cory? I know we're kind of the same time zone, but where are you calling
Life in Tucson and Profession
00:02:17
Speaker
in from? Yeah, I'm here in Tucson, Arizona. So I called at home for 18 years, went to South Carolina for six years for college and missed it so much I came back in 2011. I've been here ever since. So I'm part of the country where we don't change our our clocks to help him make it easy for everybody. Yeah, yeah easier hearts. So you guys don't you guys don't change clocks. It just stays the same all around. Yes. you I guess that's a pro of living in Arizona, right? It's just the clock change. That's one thing we always, the fight is, and then time and time change comes for us as like, okay, what when do we need to start bedtime now? At what point do we need to do this adjustment? And it's always confusing every year.
Integrating Humor in Fatherhood
00:02:55
Speaker
Anyway, so can you tell us a bit about who you are, kind of what you're doing right now and kind of, yeah, who's Corey?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah. So i'm I'm a drug dealer. Just kidding. Well, kind of. you know i'm a That go and not get your attention. You know, client, client, therapist, confidentiality. I don't have to report you. We're okay. So it goes between you and me. No one's listening. So yeah, I'm ah i'm a pharmacist by trade since 2011. i close to a drug dealer. Really? I mean, legally. I mean, if you have a prescription, I can, I can deal
Corey's Book and Its Motivation
00:03:24
Speaker
with some drugs. So I've been doing that since 2011. Um, I also, in addition to that, I am an improv comedian. So I've been doing that since 2013. Um, I know all of the pharmacist comedians you could have had, you had me. So thank you. Uh, that's a joke, by the way, pharmacists are not known for our humor. So I've been doing that. Uh, I'm also an author. So I wrote my first book in 2000 called permission to care.
00:03:43
Speaker
And relevant to to your wonderful program, I have a book coming out as we record here in the early part of May, coming out on May 12th, which is Mother's Day, called, I guess I'm a dad now, a humorous handbook for newish dads who don't want to suck. So integrating some of that humor into my experience as a father of three kids, six, almost four, and one just turned 11 months old today. So drinking from the fire hose of fatherhood and trying to to get out in the world. I speak to healthcare organizations. I apply improv comedy to healthcare, care to business, learning learning myself, trying to help others learn how to listen, communicate, empathize. So I got a lot of unconventional things going on and it's hard to explain myself in a sentence. So I used like seven sentences there.
00:04:25
Speaker
No, that's totally okay. I mean, you know, pharmacist, comedian, improv, dad, first book, second book on the way. It's almost like a baby, another baby, you're you know, we'll be birthing here soon. um Although you already caught the baby because you just held it up. Although it hasn't officially been birthed. But, you know, again, part of what I wanted to show is is this exact reason is is to talk about your latest book, first and foremost. um And so can you tell us a bit about what was kind of the, why did the world need this book? What was the purpose of this book? Like yeah give us some insight into that. Yeah. Yeah. So part of the, part of the impetus for the book was actually a a shift I made in my career a couple of years ago. So I had been working full-time as a pharmacist. We had the two kids where we're working on number three and I have this side thing that I'm doing with speaking and writing. My wife is working full-time and I decided to cut to part-time.
00:05:18
Speaker
And so in part of my part-time work, part-time dad duties, being out at the park with my kids, spending time with them as a dad, which is but unfortunately, I think, not something that a lot of dads get a chance to do. So soaking it up, being in there, watching my kids play, having fun, and looking around at the other dads and thinking, we need some help. ah Whether it was them checked out on their phones, ah whether it was I work in health care. I'm a diabetes and obesity specialist. So whether they are rocking the full on dad bods, sort of sloppily going through life, ignoring their kids. um And then all the things that I was taught as a dad are not really taught, but what society tells you you're supposed to expect that tear turn out not to be true. I thought, boy, I wish I'd have known this with my first kid, and then I plied it more with my second kid. And then, well, a lot of what I'm observing is kind of
00:06:03
Speaker
absurdly hilarious and I try to be funny. So if I put this in a funny book, dads might actually want to read it too. Yeah. Can you speak more um to that point? Can you speak more to that point about the humor and the and the dads would read
Importance of Humor in Parenting Books
00:06:16
Speaker
that book? Yeah. So when we were expecting our first kid, my my wife and I are pretty, we get down to business. Like when we have a goal, we want to take care of it. We read up, we learn about it. The world of podcasting has allowed us and anybody to learn almost anything they want. become an expert in it. So becoming parents, we gravitate towards learning. And we we read three or four parenting books, and I think they they were you know what we read but were good, they were helpful. But I think there's a lot of parental literature that is very dry, heavy, somber, which in fairness, being a dad, is is it's a job where if we fail, society collapses. So don't get me wrong, like we we're we're we're more important. But I think for me growing up, I always enjoyed watching comedies. When I was in pharmacy school, I would make jokes. I would write little funny notes to myself to help me remember things.
00:07:00
Speaker
And sadly, if you told me to recite the Krebs cycle, I couldn't do it. But you tell me to recite every Simpsons episode from seasons three through seven, and I pretty much could nail it. So the importance of humor for me is I think getting dad's a little bit more relaxed, a willing to read this, willing to come back to it and then willing to implement it because great comedy comes from a place of truth. ah You think of something like Seinfeld or The Office, they're rooted in reality. And I think a lot of what I'm coming from here is there's personal stories that where the but I'm making fun of myself and rather than like making fun of my kids. And so I started trying to to humanize myself to the dad that would read this to not think I'm some sort of super dad, but I'm um'm a regular dad figuring it out. And here are some things that I figured out. I'd say trial and error, but mostly error along the way.
00:07:44
Speaker
Yeah, and and when we had a conversation when we first met and talked about you know having you on, in a way, we I think we one of the ways that we connected was through how to reach men, how to reach dads specifically on bringing, for lack of a better word,
Reaching Men with Educational Content
00:07:59
Speaker
education. Right now, you and me, I'm generalizing here, you know you would consume literature. That's something that I would do, consume literature. I'm a therapist by trade. I you know i read parenting books as part of my graduate school and then kept reading and then, you know, um, all the big ones like dance, equal Tina Bryson, you know, all those whole brainchild, no drama discipline, always at the books, right to prep. And, but that's just because I was wired that way. And like, I want to learn, but by and large, a lot of people, while there's a lot of people that read, there's also a whole lot of people that don't really read or consume literature in that way. And, and when we take it now to men, it's like, how do we reach men? How do we speak the language of men that would one, like not be,
00:08:40
Speaker
shaming not be you know ah Distancing not like but how do we get them engaged in? Something that's like you said the beginning your book kind of starts off like how important dads are like really how important dads are and not just anecdotally, but you you draw some statistics in there and and like what would happen if we just showed up as dads and actually got rid of some of the you said kind of deadbeat dads and other things like that, what would do to our world. And so, you know, the importance of reaching men, I think is one of the the biggest needs and challenges right now in our modern kind of day.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, and I think that the it's sort of the comedic trope of, honey, did you read the baby book yet? All good around to it, all good around to it. Have you read it yet? No. And then it's just it's like, it's it's that sort of like the nagging wife, the the dad who's too busy checking his fantasy football team to read like the one book. And then the baby comes and she said, remember the book? And they're like, well, actually, I didn't read it. And like, I asked you to read one book and you couldn't do it. Well, to me, if a dad, if if they read one book and it was this book, would it make you a perfect dad? No. But like this as the subtitle said, if you can suck a little bit less, I think we we we'd be better off. and And that's why I put that in the beginning of the book, because I think any new dad, unless you've helped raise other kids, you really don't know what you're doing.
Honesty and Humor in Fatherhood Approach
00:10:01
Speaker
And that's okay. And I think I kind of make that clear, like, you're sort of given this baby like, Oh, hello, nice to meet you. Should we have an emotional connection? Should I talk to you? Should we play catch? Like, what are we supposed to do here? And then it goes immediately to mom, mom's feeding the baby and you're like, what do I do with my hands now? So and and, and this, I think will prepare you for that, especially that first year where it's just a fire hose of life coming at you. yeah Like, what do I do? How do I support my wife? How do I take care of myself? Um, there's not a lot of tactical, like how to change a diaper tips in this book. Um, there's YouTube for that, but it's, it's how do you not go crazy while you're changing a diaper at midnight and dealing with a wife who's recovering from, from a major, so you know, childbirth hard on the heart of the woman. And now she's expected to feed this baby and you better be there for her. So I think if you read this book, you're going to be, you're going to be ready to go, uh, much more so than if you, you sit on the sidelines and just hope it goes okay.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, and and with the books that you did read before you decided to write yours, you know, you kind of mentioned they're maybe a little more serious and more heady. um yeah While that's important, I guess what did you see a barrier for men engaging in that book? Was it just because it was, in that sense, like too heady, too serious? And you saw that, hey, that's just gonna be, guys aren't gonna read that as much? Or like, what what is your kind of anecdotal experience or what what you noticed and why you said, I need to do humor here? feels unattainable. Like you're you're given this this somber, important thing to do and all these steps to to go. and And we've had, I have friends that have read all, mothers and fathers who read all the parenting books and the baby comes and the baby didn't read the books. And there's thinking that there's something wrong with them. So not only have they devoted all this time to learning these, like I i run with some type A's.
00:11:40
Speaker
So they have these like checklists and plans and the baby's just like, I'm going to pour gasoline on your plans. I'm going to light a match and blow it up. And then you're stuck. You're stuck in this predetermined plan and you don't know what to do. And then if you're a dad trying to read these books and you're given these specific instructions and plans and things you have to do, You're like, I work 40 hours a week, sometimes 50, 60 hours a week. I'm out of shape. I have these habits I need to fix. And now I have to do all these perfect things where my kid's going to be screwed up. Like forget this. um It's like learn helplessness versus here's some simple things that like, Oh, well, Corey one time let his kids go down the stairs and they're okay. Well, that guy who seems to have it together can make a mistake. Well, I'll make some mistakes, but avoid the big ones and do some of these small things along the way to prepare yourself to
00:12:27
Speaker
to to be in a better place to take care of that kid or kids like for us. Yeah, or kids plural. um and And you mentioned you know this this, you kind of hinted at, um you can kind of sort of like more than implied kind of in between explicit and implied.
Media Portrayal of Fathers
00:12:43
Speaker
The idea and notion of like, while you read the books, I'm wondering what you thought growing up, you're training to become a father. Do you think, you know, was your growing up kind of well, were you think you were well trained to like become a dad right away? Do you think society was training as well to become what to expect as a dad, as a parent? Or was there something that was lacking? No, ah not at all.
00:13:04
Speaker
I think that media does a terrible job of preparing dads for what we should do versus rather like what is what is the societal expectation. I mean, you look, I mean, we don't need to dive into the full media portrayal of dads, but they're not generally positive. They're the Homer Simpson's of the world, Peter Griffin's, I know these are cartoons, but they're the knuckle dragging doofuses who all the wife wants is for him to get dressed and go to a nice dinner. He can't figure it out. or he forgets to you know We were watching Jingle All the Way this Christmas to Arnold Schwarzenegger. All he has to do is buy the toy. He can't buy the toy. like We're just, we're we're hapless and we're we're the we're the weak link of the family. So i like it's a joke among like another comedian I who became a dad. like We sent each other pictures of, like we put the diapers on our kids' head and we just put our hands up like, what we're the bubbling dads. What are we supposed to do? like so So no. Sorry, that was a long rant with the way of saying,
00:13:53
Speaker
No we're not really fair well yeah and then you said earlier like obviously within common is always you know a grain of truth to that and and so and ah and i'm wondering what do you think. Has been possibly problematic with that kind of trope being continually hit of being the kind of blubbering idiot dad like what's been. You know, while humor, right? Again, it's great truth. What's some some of the problems that you have either seen or experienced personally with that kind of continual, you know, hitting over the head of this kind of father? Well, personally, I when I take my kid to the doctor, or I'm at a library day for a little like toddler time to the library. There's a lot of surprise from the the other people like, oh, you're here as a dad. Like it's almost.
00:14:37
Speaker
unexpected or if I'm at the park with them. Like it's me and like, I've made, I think it's kind of cool. I made a ah dad friend at the park, but it's all the moms, which again, traditional society that the the man's the, the one making the money is at the work and I have no problem with it. But on a personal level, there's a little level of surprise and from others, but I think on a societal level, I mean, you see this, you're a therapist, you probably know more than me, but men are suffering. And I see this in my patients, like men are hurting. And I think that, again, that learn health is this idea of like, if i if all my role models are bumbling idiots, if every commercial shows the dad, well, I couldn't make dinner, so I had to order chilies or whatever takeout is on, like yeah that becomes what you believe. And then all of a sudden you can't do the things that you're supposed to do. And so what where does that lead? Again, it leads to weak men, weak dads. And again, you'll read this book, you'll know I'm not perfect.
00:15:27
Speaker
But I think that the self-reflection of being able to understand where you fall short and then try to fix those shortfalls versus saying, well, society says I suck, so I guess I'll just suck and that'll be that. Hopefully my kids will turn out okay. Yeah, yeah. but and and And I have experienced that too. I think you're right, men, generally speaking, not all men, but a good portion of men that we that you've probably seen and worked with and and helped as well as I have been suffering, right? and I think suffering with this unagree of what does it mean to be a healthy, um true strong, whatever that means, man, dad, yeah and what is or what are my role models. And often this is not the first time that I've had this exact conversation with other men, with other dads of like, yeah, we see it. We get that there's definitely a grain of truth in there. And at the same time, the problem with that is that if we keep perpetuating this is the story, well, then what are we doing? Like, why not portray
00:16:19
Speaker
Men who are embodying care for themselves care for their wife, you know having some level of intelligence so it's either I think the tropes of men or either the blubbering idiot dad or like the full-on narcissist like you know abuser like it's these two extremes like either the complete idiot or a You know, now there's a few things that I think have shown somewhat of a decent men, but that's not the norm.
Guidance on Healthy Masculinity
00:16:42
Speaker
It's more of these other extremes that we're seeing constantly over and over and over and probably part of the learned helplessness is like, what do I do? Because what are we taught in school? Are we taught about what it means to be a healthy man, healthy dad, future father, et cetera? No. We don't, we're not taught this stuff at all in high school and college. We're not talking about this stuff. And then all of a sudden you're a dad.
00:17:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's no there's no test to pass. It's just sort of you know, I mean biologically, we know how you become a dad. It's sort of just that and there you go. Yeah, so there's no test. There's no training and I think part of what I you know, the intro your book is like one of the most important things in our life is being a dad and if we have weak men, weak dad, weak dads, like society breaks, right? It's like we need. Men and fathers who are healthy are have awareness and are willing to grow and admit, you know Hey, I'm not perfect, but I'm willing to grow and learn and so ah what better curiosity What was like your and your model of a father growing up? I get like my dad was great I think you know as I get older it's the crazy it's I mean, there's like I think it's an insurance commercial but like, you know, you're becoming your parents and I it's funny my wife would be like, you know, you sound like your dad or or your mom or whatever and And I've reached this point of, because the end of the book, like, I mean, the books, it's a handbook for being dads, but I, there's a lot of comedy, but I wrap it up with like an earnest story about my father and my father-in-law. Tucson's a small town and how the people they've interacted with became
00:18:11
Speaker
people that I cared for and somehow they found out that I was related to to both of them, either you know, my dad and for marriage and they were just, had they had nothing but nice things to say. So on the sense of that, my dad, like I couldn't, I couldn't ask for a better dad. He was present. He was a teacher. So he was there every summer, every winter break. He, I mean, he was a great college athlete. I was not a good athlete and he was super patient with me um because I think he recognized like I could yell at him, but he's not going to be any better. He's, he's doing best he can. So yeah, he He was a great model as far as, and my grandfather too, jinx men work hard. We do multiple jobs, like the apples and fall far from the tree there. He would explain, you know, he's teaching swim lessons in the summer. Well, there's our summer vacation. That's how we're paying for it. So he showed me the value of hard work. His side of the family was not one that really talked about feelings or sometimes talked at all. My grandparents were the model of the silent generation, but again, loving, caring there for me. And so there's moments where I'm like, oh man, I wish he was there to, you know, even now, like I would love to talk about my feelings with my dad. And then I realized,
00:19:09
Speaker
It's not him. I can't expect that from him. He's given me everything that he could, you know, he's given a hundred percent of what he was taught, who he is. So in that sense, like awesome. ah My temper can be short. And then I hear myself and him and my wife will be like, you sound like your dad again. And I'm like, I know, um, you know, so the the foibles and the problems, I shouldn't highlight those. It's not fair to him, but where do we learn be how to be a dad? You know, for those of us who are dads around for better or worse, we learn, learn, learn from them. So I learned a lot of great from him. And then we all we have our little ticks and things that we can do better, but on the whole, couldn couldn't ask for for better to add.
Influence of Corey's Father
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah. And it sounds like you've done, so you know, definitely level, some level of awareness of being able to accept the good and who he was and what he taught you all the positive things, of yeah you know, uh, of your family kind of lineage as well as okay you know what we didn't do a lot of emotional talk but here's what he did do and I'm not gonna fault him for it I'm gonna say hey you know what here's here's what he did and which is different than his generation and he really taught me some amazing things yeah right and we're still connected yeah
00:20:12
Speaker
And that's the cool thing is, yeah, you know knock on wood. He's still around. He's 70. We play golf together. He's a great, he's, he teaches our kids how to swim. He's, he's, you know, my father-in-law is a farmer retired fighter pilot. So he has all the cool toys and the farm stuff. My dad was the jock. So he does the sports stuff. My father-in-law does the the blue collar outdoor fun, you know, play on the tractor stuff. So it's a, it's a nice balance between the two. And yeah, he, he just, he He really showed me how to how to live well, how to take care for your family and how to work. you know That was one thing. He showed me he was he had a great work ethic, has a great work ethic. He still works. He still teaches. so um Like part-time? like He does. so He he like doesn't retire? Does somebody keep teaching type of thing? Yeah, he's at the college level now. He's a professor.
00:20:58
Speaker
keep young with all those college kids. And he's yeah he's a PE teacher, so he so does a lot of physical activity and stays active there. So it was also a great, you know, in that sense, a great role model in physical fitness too. So, yeah. yeah and And I'm wondering, it pivoted a little bit, but I mean, following this conversation, like being able to accept your dad. and And I think by the way, that's for for some listening, right? They have different experiences of whether an absentee father, a father that was, you know, downright abusive, I mean, anywhere in between. And so you're right, these, our fathers, our biological fathers, for better or worse, leave a mark on us, leave yeah an impact. And I've talked to numerous people with dads who were not even present and those absentee dads leave a mark on like our psyche, our wellbeing. And there's always this longing of like wanting to be seen as enough or approved from our fathers. It's like any, I haven't talked to one person and I've worked with well over a thousand people
00:21:51
Speaker
You know, even my own life of like, we all want that father approval of being seen as, you know, enough having worth, um, you know, all those things. And so it's, it's the power of, of dad. And, and I could tell that with your dad, you feel that sense of like, okay, I have an identity and and I feel that. um Now with that said, the shift here is, so here's what my dad taught me though as well, part of the lineage and part of our family heritage. It's really, really good of work ethic and and showing up and being present. It sounds like your dad was present and like engaged with you guys and all those things. And an area of growth, and you kind of mentioned this as well, we didn't do a lot of emotional talk. So how have you kind of, so to speak, carried the ball forward with that?
Developing Emotional Intelligence
00:22:30
Speaker
What does it look like for you? How did you develop kind of maybe emotional intelligence? What does that path or journey look like or currently looks like for you right now?
00:22:38
Speaker
Well, fortunately, he married into a family that did a lot of emotional talking. So cut that got passed down to me, I think. But ah you know along the way, i've I've worked with various mental health professionals, therapists for whatever has weaved in and out of my life really since high school and trying to to reflect and have that self-awareness of where I'm falling short. And I guess the biggest thing is this is an improv lesson, being willing to listen. So I have and a great wife who's who's honest with me and then being honest with myself and saying, like we said, we kind of went through the checklist of like, dad taught me this, this, and this, and these were great things that I want my kids to learn this. Well, I also want them to have a father who, if they want to talk about their feelings, great. ah my My son's at this point, don't want to talk about them. And I'm like, but I'm ready to do it if you want to. but So so i'm I'm there with that. And I think along the way, the moments we fall short, we lose for me, it's you know I lose my temper, raise my voice,
00:23:35
Speaker
And my parents, I love them. They're the, yeah. we've I do it too. Sorry. Those that are listening, I did raise my hand. he raise it I saw a hand raise. yes yeah Yeah. So those watching got it, but yeah. Yeah. So I think that that willingness to admit your mistakes to yourself, to your kids, and then try to do better the next day. And yeah. having having a good sounding board from those around you who will keep you honest is is a real important part of that too. Yeah. and who Who do you use as your like, who is your sounding board right now in your life? I mean, honestly, my wife is is, she's lovingly blunt with me when it's
00:24:09
Speaker
Cora you need to hear yourself do you hear your dad and i'm like i don't want to admit it but i'm gonna go outside and breathe and take that so um you know she's just like walk away walk away and that's like one of the lessons i have in the book if you're getting frustrated it's like walk away and so i think for me she's She, I married well and she's, she, she lets me know and not in a way like she's not my therapist. That that's an appropriate husband wife relationship and she doesn't try to be, but she brings those things out in me. And then as I've said, and over the course of, of my years, even since becoming a dad, I've had a, uh, whenever I feel like it's sort of like a little mental health checkup, I have someone I can talk to that's a professional suit. So not afraid to admit it. I'm a man. I work hard. I'm a dad. And sometimes you know, talk about your feelings, whether it's professional or
00:24:56
Speaker
We have a great group of dads in our neighborhood that will get together and go for a walk, go for a rock. um Just awesome sounding board.
Support Systems for Fathers
00:25:03
Speaker
I have a guy, one of the dads I do ah i go for a run with every week and it's usually just like a event sesh of what, because he's got two young kids about our kid's age, so it's just vented out, talked through it, and he's someone who's had a parental relationship that's required him to do a lot of work too and then he has. It's just so amazing to hear him talk about like hearing his reflections on my what I go through with with my family and my challenges and he's like, yeah, well, that's that's that's not a healthy relationship. That's something you should ignore. That's their problem predicted on you. I'm like, yep, you have done the work. So um I guess can't ignore my my my ah my fellow dads here in in the neighborhood too.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, and was it was that like a natural easy process for you initially to kind of do that examination of like here's all the good things my dad taught me and here's the things that I want to make sure that I'm maybe again going a step further than my father was that like pay up I'm doing this or was there a barrier to that was that easy for me it was easy. I don't know. I think it's going to be different. for It's going to vary for every person, but it's i'm I'm someone who's maybe like a huge fault, like self-deprecating to a fault. So I'm always looking almost too much at sometimes like looking at the my shortfalls, my negatives, and that self-reflection of, especially when the first kid was coming like, okay, what are the habits I do not want my kids to have? Because I looked at the things I got from my parents and I thought, okay, i I cannot give them this, this and this. I do not want them to, they're going to get bad stuff from me and my wife. It's inevitable. It's called being a parent and having kids, but I just like, what are the broad strokes of things I don't want them to to pick up from me? So that that was easy because I was able to look back on my life and think what habits have made it harder? Where did those come from?
00:26:41
Speaker
Again, not blaming my parents. they Everyone who has kids are just people who are human doing their best. ah As long as you're not actively, maliciously harming you. but In some cases, that's the case. Mine were not. They flawed people. We all are. They have kids. The flaws get passed down. and it's It's interesting as I see Tucson being a small town seeing my friends and their kids and the the traits that show up generation to generation. and Then thinking back to the dads and my friends. like Oh, I get why they acted like that. Their dad was a jerk. Okay. Well, I kind of forgive them, but they were still jerks. Yeah. Yeah. You kind of see the the story there and have some understanding.
00:27:16
Speaker
and it Yeah, and you're right. its I think it's different for every person, like every guy, every dad, that just in your case, easy. Like I want to reflect and go. Other times for other men, I've worked with plenty that's like, there's a lot of barriers to that of just kind of getting stuck in maybe some of the people you've seen in your hometown, kind of getting stuck in similar patterns and not really not really being fully aware, conscious of it. Like, hey, this is, I'm kind of reliving maybe some of the stuff that I didn't like as a kid or they're kind of just stuck, right? Yeah, the cycle continues. cycle continues and it's really easy to get sucked into that cycle. I mean you you know you are practicing some level of consistent awareness and you have a spouse who's really like willing to kind of help bring awareness and shine a light on it and you're responding well like yeah okay I gotta to do that and so you have this kind of relationship of willing to kind of help each other which is an amazing thing and I'm wondering you know what are some practices
00:28:07
Speaker
that, and you again, you kind of sort of hinted this previously with when you start to maybe sound like your dad, maybe it sounds like you're raising your voice or getting a hot temper. You did mention you might go outside and like take some breath. So can you speak to some of like the practical practices that you find that kind of help you maybe regulate your nervous system or when you're feeling kind of overwhelmed or super frustrated, super angry, super stressed out, things you do to kind of help you bring to more, you know, more calm state to be more proactive and present with your family?
Stress Management Strategies
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think a a huge key for me, and this is some a theme i've I've come across with a lot of other dads is I got to start my day with some exercise. I got to get that physical outlet out. Um, so it's sort of that, that one's, you know, sort of a preventative measure. Like I get up early, I do some sort of, some sort of workout, a walk, strength training, whatever it is. I also, I think that being fit as a father is, um, is a must on the taking care of your family. But that that's the, that's like the prophylactic at the beginning of the day. Um,
00:29:04
Speaker
And what's really helped me in those moments is trying to hear myself. And then oftentimes hearing my, like it happens when I hang out with my parents and I hear them saying the same, like, cause they're, they're very protective and they love to use the word careful with my kids. And we're trying to like not use that very broad word that doesn't help toddlers understand it. think Yeah, no, I'm the same. yeah Yeah, I try to hear myself. But a big thing is yeah hearing myself and then asking myself, does this really matter? Does it really matter if the markers are on that table or the marker table? It does not. There's only so much parent capital I have. And I want to save it for when there's like a safety issue.
00:29:39
Speaker
Like if I raise my voice, it should be you're in danger and they should know that versus I'm in danger of my OCD being triggered. Like that's not, that's not, that's not an emergency. So, um, a big thing there is hearing myself and then the, the really the best thing is within, us within safety's reason, like walking away and just taking a breath. uh getting outside for me is a big one and we found for our kids getting them outside when they're in tantrum mode uh sort of like oh look at the moon look at the trees look at the wind blowing like getting them into like some semblance of looking at nature also helps so that that that kind of brings me back to a calmer place
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah, and I would agree with the nature, getting my kids out, that's something I found, one for me, how life-giving that is to get out of the, walk you know, take a step take a step back, walk away, take a breath, and getting outside, go walk on the grass, take a breath, look at the trees, hear the birds, and yeah there'd be times with like, if it's in here, what if things are in the house, it's like, things aren't changing, yeah, I'll take them outside and just kind of like, It is really a magical thing that can begin to occur. Not that it like always stops things on the dime, sometimes it does. and But other times you just see just kind of just nature begin to kind of help just in a way regulate and help them kind of get to a place that's calmer. um And really the the benefit of that. And so you know the breath work is huge and being aware of our of our nervous system state too of knowing when we need to like take that break.
00:31:04
Speaker
and i'm wondering for you like you know it sounds like one of your telltale signs is when i'm starting to is it raising voice is it are you feeling like pressure and you're like clenching your jaw like what are some of your telltale signs of like i should probably pause when i'm getting snappy snappy uh i'm like hey like it's like the quick like but but but but there's not a lot of love in that it's a lot of commands and demands which All the escalate, my kids, it's like using the middle name. like when The next time it works, it'll be the first time it works. yeah Parents go to that well all all the time. ah We're going to use that middle name. Now you know we're being business. For me, it's hey yeah it's the quick snappiness over stuff that doesn't matter. and it's usually end of the day like For me, it's it's usually around either a deadline of like we need to get in the car by this time to get to this,
00:31:51
Speaker
or it is bedtime and we need to get you to sleep. Daddy's recording a podcast or it's, it's just, it's nine o'clock, nine 30. If we don't do this, you're going to stay up late and then tomorrow's going to be wrecked because you're not going to get sleep, but you don't conceptualize that because you're three. Uh, and it's, it's fighting against things beyond our control. And I think if, if I take a step back and and talk about another strategy is that I think that radical acceptance of the lack of control we have with little kids, And it's like, for us, we're nearing the end of Little League season, but we get back from our games and practices. It's late, it's a school night, it's a work night. And it used to be like, we just gotta get you to bed, all right? We're not, when we get home, we're gonna go right to bed. And they're like, I don't think so, dad. We're gonna have a snack and we're gonna hit each other and we're gonna throw our stuff over the place. And as soon as I just realized like, this is what it shall be, we will not be getting any of the adult stuff done tonight. All right, fine. It doesn't matter. And now we can go to bed later, but happier versus later and pissed off at each other.
00:32:46
Speaker
Yeah. Can you radical
Radical Acceptance in Parenting
00:32:48
Speaker
acceptance? See, I know exactly what that is, but could you, by the way, it's an amazing, uh, lifelong practice. Could you tell our guests what radical acceptance is? Well, to me, it just means a, an acceptance of reality, like whatever it is, like we are going to not fight against whatever is happening and not wishing it was different. Uh, I think that's a big piece of it is a lot of the pain points. And this is. It's almost like a therapy session for me. So if you want to charge me, I get it. But a lot of the pain points and frustrations that looking back over those first six years of being a dad come from the
00:33:23
Speaker
expectations in my mind and the difference, the delta in what reality actually is. And this could be like, I've gotten angry at my kids for getting sick. Like it's not their fault that they like, sure, they should have washed their hands more and we try to use that as a lesson, but we have a trip planned and now they're sick and now we're not going. Or my wife and I have the only day off together and three months together to be alone and they get sick. And so to the pain of wishing that wasn't so versus the reality that it is so and your plans are ruined. is where the pain comes from versus saying, okay, for our anniversary this year, our baby daughter was home with us and she went and bought, we went and bought pants and a new dryer. And then we went out to dinner with her while she like, we snuggle her. And that's what our anniversary was. And it was a much happier one than sitting there with my fist clench, ruining the fact that my kids have yet again, got in the way of another ah mommy daddy day date.
00:34:15
Speaker
so Yeah so well said that those that are listening like you may want to replay that part um because i I totally resonate with that practice. I too relate to that 100% is that wishing and or it's not the the it's not fair you know that whole thing which causes that internal resistance which takes the difficulty and just amplifies it. It's kind of like you know the analogy I give with myself and the clients I work with, it's kind of like being in the ocean and getting pissed off that the waves keep coming, right? And then trying to stop the waves from coming. and then And then at times getting now mad at yourself maybe that you can't stop the waves from coming, right? And then it creates this tension rather than just acceptance of like, hey, I can't control this, but I can control how I respond to this moment. And I can choose differently, you know? yeah and that's
00:35:02
Speaker
that That's an improv tenet is yes and we agree and we build together that acceptance of reality and It's not easy, for those of you listening, don't think that I'm like, oh man, this guy's got it. like it's' It's taking a lot of practice and I don't do, it doesn't happen every time, but I think what has helped me, and this is, I don't know if this is a useful tool or something that's sort of like negative, but like when one kid gets sick, when you have a family of two or three, like the whole family's going down. like As much as you would try to like separate them, in your head, just take the next week of plans and assume they are not happening.
00:35:33
Speaker
And if they do happen, it's like a happy bonus. It's that sort of dopaminergic of like, if you are expecting happy and you don't get it, your your dopamine is lower than if you are get an unexpected happiness.
Zooming Out for Perspective
00:35:44
Speaker
So for for us, like, that's one way we approach that sort of one kid gets sick, I used to think, well, you know, maybe they'll be better in two days and everything will be fine instead of letting go. And I, this is something that my parents are just they don't understand. I'm like, Well, Jake six, so we're probably not going to make it next. Oh, don't be so negative. Like you don't understand. Like if I think that we're going to do get there and it doesn't happen, I'll be more upset than, than where I am right now. So, um, it, and then trying to make the most of those moments that were the, were the air quote, you know, the plan goes not to plan and still trying to find the happiness in it. I mean, one other thing I too do to do as well as like zoom out, like my kid is sick. I'm upset. All right. Zoom out. What do they have?
00:36:27
Speaker
a cold. Zoom out. It's not a chronic disease. Zoom out. We have medicine to take care of it. Zoom out. We have a great pediatrician. Zoom out. In 10 years, we'll forget this. It's hard when they're there. They're fever in, they're chevron. They're angry. My kids get angry when they're sick. Some kids get sweet when they're sick, not mine. They get angry. They're angry sick kids. Typical man cult. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's taken by the third kid. I finally started to get the hang of them. My poor first kids born in the front of my learning, but, um, that's okay. Mind it too. Yeah. Oh, I feel it. Yeah. No, I relate to that. Everything you just said, I'm like, uh-huh. Yep. I'm like, great. I'm like smiling. Not cause I'm laughing. Cause I've, uh-huh. That's exactly exactly what I've experienced multiple times. Like that at this point, try to separate kids. Now I just want them all together. No, it's just get it done with otherwise it becomes like six weeks of.
00:37:17
Speaker
the domino slowly falling and then you finally get hit at the end. It's like, yeah you think you make it? No, it pulls you back. And then the two things that i'm you know really resonate as you're talking is, yeah, that lifelong practice of radical acceptance of just accepting the moment as it is, not that you like it, not that you want it, not that you hope for it or prove it. It's just, it is what it is right now. This is reality and I can resist it or I can accept it. And that acceptance leads to kind of relief. It leads to having a coming up with a new solution. No, it's not always easy, it's definitely not easy. It's a daily practice. And I too struggle with that. I too get stuck in my own internal resistance at times, which absolutely creates more attention for me. And I know this, I teach people this and I still get stuck. So I'm also with you and not being a perfect dad, perfect man. I got flaws, but I'm always willing to admit my mistakes, take responsibility and say, hey, dad messed up. I'm trying, um I need to take a breath guys, right? I didn't take a breath, right? And my kids now, yeah, I didn't take a breath.
00:38:14
Speaker
What could dad do? Oh, you could walk away. Yeah, you're right, you could walk away. So it's kind of like this, we're working through this together and learning together and teaching and all these things. And with that radical acceptance, I love the zoom out. What a great image of just pause and breathe, zoom out. And then kind of going through, which is kind of helping you get more into like, what are the facts? What's really going on? Because in the moment, right, that moment can really just be so overwhelming, especially if you had something planned that you wanted to do. yeah and yeah And how much that could just create more tension, right? And and that zoom out, and zoom out, zoom out. What what a great skill. um You know, everyone listening, write that down. That's a great skill. What a wonderful skill to kind of practice of just pausing, reflecting. Because when you do that, what are like what's one or two differences you notice from not zooming out to zooming out like that you've noticed internally for you?
00:39:07
Speaker
I think that relief you said the word relief. It's realizing that I'm actually pretty blessed. like and I'm pretty lucky. like and I'm not wishing for illness. like we We have a beach trip planned in a month. I really want to go. and It would really be hard to know if something happens and we can't go. Uh, so if you talk to me in a month and something comes up, I'll be like, I'm accepting it through these gritted teeth. But I think that if we're in a place where your biggest problem is your son misses a baseball game because he has an allergic reaction in his eye. And by that end of that day, he's feeling better. That's a pretty good problem. Like I, my wife and I say it all the time. I think we got a good problems. Like these are, we got a ship, we got a house, we got food, we got family, got friends, we have knock on what our health, we, you know, acute health, like ah a viral illness, a cold de flu, whatever.
00:39:53
Speaker
yeah Not that good, but we got Tylenol, we got ibuprofen that we can treat them with. and It helps be married. My wife was an ICU nurse for years. so Her her like framing of sickness is like, they're upright in breathing, they're good. so I think that for the for the new parent, the first time that kid has a fever, this is it. It's like your whole world. It's like being in high school again. like your whole like There's this whole world. like You go off to college or you go off to to work. And the world expands beyond the four walls of your high school. The few hundred people that are there. Like when you have a kid, it's back in this tiny world and everything is this person that you made willingly or unwillingly. They're there and you're here there to take care of them.
00:40:30
Speaker
And if you don't have a background in taking care of a sick kid, if you've never seen a kid with a fever, if you don't understand that, if they get it to 103 or 104, it's bad, but it's not the end of the world. And it like if you give them Tylenol and they're feeling better, they're not that sick. like if like Really sick people don't get better when you give them some Tylenol. Kids are amazing. If they're sick and they're like, I can't move and you give them Tylenol and they have a fever and it gets better, they're like, I'm bouncing off the wall again. like So it's, it's hard and it comes with practice. And so and like like to circle a bit to the book here, it's it's geared toward the ages zero to five. And you were talking, you were kind of nodding earlier. I was like, Oh, I've been there. I i feel that I feel that. And I think for the people who've had a chance to get a copy of it and read it ahead of time, like the dads who read it are like, Oh, I was reading it. It it just felt good to not feel like I'm alone. And I think that's getting back to what you're doing here as an integrated man and
Community Importance for Fathers
00:41:22
Speaker
integrated father. I think the,
00:41:23
Speaker
sharing of our experiences, it doesn't undo the suck of them. But it makes us feel not alone. Like we're doing something wrong. um It's just part of part of the experience. And I think society has has deemed it and I think moms have it even worse than dads. Like, it's on you, you got to do it all alone. In reality, we're meant to be a tribe. And so if you have a neighborhood of of dads or if it's at this podcast and you're hearing me and you talk and you're like, Oh my gosh, thank you. I i felt the same way. That's really the relief. There's the word again. Like there's that relief. Yeah. Yeah. The relief that we are not alone.
00:41:59
Speaker
yeah And now we can get, we can, measurements feel isolated and alone. That's a very common um thing I have heard in my office is the feeling of I'm alone in this. And often it's stuck in isolation and stuck in their head. And and there's some very real experiences as to why they might feel that way. um Lack of, cue I mean, so many reasons, but that is such a huge theme. And you just, I mean, right there, that whole, and you know, that last piece you just shared of like, knowing we're not alone, reading this book, I think that is the relief that I would say most men that I've worked with would benefit from, is knowing I'm not alone. I'm not the only one. And it is about having connection and community in a tribe that we can lean on. And how men, you know, contrary to maybe what some people might think, when you get men in a room, in a group, it doesn't take long for men to kind of open up and begin to kind of lean on each other.
00:42:51
Speaker
It really doesn't. You know, it takes one guy in a group of men to kind of be the lead in risk and then they kind of start to fall in pretty quick. I've run numerous men's groups and it's like at first it's that, you know, it's the hesitation. It's like, you're gonna watch or anything. And then it takes one guy and then all of a sudden they just start eating it up because we all long for it. We all want that connection to feel seen, to feel heard, to be, I'm not alone in this and have that tribe, that community. you know yeah yeah and it's i It's one of the things I write about is building up your your like dad tribe. you know have You can't do everything alone. like I'm not handy, so I have people around me that are handy. i All of the people that are that you have in your network, like lean on them when you have your kid because you're the time you have to get anything done is going to be like almost nil to non-existent.
00:43:38
Speaker
don't be afraid to mean Dudes don't like asking for help. like Famously, we'll be having a heart attack and be like, I'm fine. I don't need any help. and like You're literally dying. but This is, it could feel like you're dying when you're in drowning, when you're, when you're having this new kid. And I, like an example of that, I write it on the book, but ah my best friend had his first kid a year ago and just one of those like kid babies that just cried constantly. And he's, he and his wife are type eight, read the books, ready to go. And they're just like, what is going on? They were friends. He told me, he's like, you can't reason with it. I'm like, yeah, it's a baby. So we sent them like a, you know, some like door delivery meal service gift card. right here have a dinner have a dinner on one night and so if you're a dad listening to this and you have new dads in your network that are struggling like a little gesture like that goes a long way it's these little things that can add up that just give you a breath um then the cool thing about having kids is when you get like a 10-minute break it can feel like a weekend off when you've been in it constantly so it takes
00:44:34
Speaker
then The brakes, they hit better when you have kids. Yeah, it's all relative. Yes, totally. You know, it really is. and And what a great, and I want a second that I think if you, you know, if your dad or, you know, mom's listening to this, you know, and to some degree, mom's probably do a better job at this. And I'm, again, generalizing is that finding a new mom or new dad and sending them that that food, you know, sending them that, like, It really makes a difference. it It's like that little breath, even for a moment of like, okay, it's not so overwhelming because I think it could be so overwhelming, especially with the first. um And depending on the kids, like even the second or third, hurt depending on so many factors, I mean, not ah having a kid is not all kids sleep a million hours a day.
00:45:17
Speaker
Mine didn't. So I get it. We, no one s slept for months. So we had friends that slept all night and we're like, uh, what they sleep. Like we haven't slept since I don't even know when, um, six years ago. I don't know. It's, I've had constant sleep deprivation. I don't know how I'm functioning. Um, And it really goes a long way in it. I think that is such a blessing to to give away, especially if you're in that place, you can have awareness and you've gone through it and you're seeing guys like, just go for
Supporting New Parents
00:45:45
Speaker
it. I mean, the worst is going to happen. I don't even know. They're going to reject the food. i You know, I don't think so. I think they're going to be thankful that someone is like willing to help them out. um Yeah. Yeah. So final two questions. One ah final two questions. This is a very important question. What's something currently that you're listening to musically?
00:46:05
Speaker
currently that I listen to musically. So I don't know what it is. There's something about seasons that I have like seasonal music. Like there's holiday music and something about April, May makes me want to listen to my like emo punk rock stuff. So I've got the, the new found glory radio rocking hard on Spotify. I've been doing that for like the last three, four weeks. It's like something about this time of year, there's always weeds. So I'm outside weeding. and listening to to to that. It might be because it reminds me of like graduation and that sort of emotional feeling. But yeah, man it's it's my buddy and I, who's ah we got the same musical taste, we just keep going back and forth like, remember this classic, remember this classic, boom, boom, boom, boom. So um that that's what's been hitting my ears lately.
00:46:46
Speaker
That's funny. It sounds like my house. Yeah, newfound glory. Oh my gosh. Yeah. The other day we were driving some mountains and I had, we were doing like, oh my gosh, um, something corporate. And, yeah um, du we had all these things like, you know, we, the but Jimmy world and all those things. So I see your 311 poster there too. So it made me think of that. Um, anyway, it's it's always cool to hear what people are listening to and spinning. And it sounds like again, my playlist, but, um, and the final question is, working at your book, working can people, pre-order and grab it a copy. Where can we find your work and get support? Where where are those things? So, uh, my book is, it's just like in all the other books. It's going to be, it's on Amazon now for pre-order as we're speaking here. I think it's the May 7th. Yeah. It's all, it's all blur. Yeah. So it comes out May 12th, 2024. Whenever you're listening to this, if you go to my website, Corey janks.com. So C O R Y J E N K S dot.com. My dad and mom were cheated in by the valid Corey. So no E there. Don't put that E in Corey.
00:47:42
Speaker
ah You can find out everything I'm doing. You can get my first book, Permission to Care, Building a Healthcare care Culture that Drives in Chaos. Your dad probably listened to this or a mom, so you can get, I guess, I'm a dad now. The humorous handbook for newest dads who don't want to suck. I have some pretty cool pre-orders on there. Actually, have a speaking of music, I have a dad playlist that was sort of inspiring as I was writing. and editing the book, yeah dad workout, dad travel checklist system, simple dad gear. If you're new to having a kid, uh, there's different like levels, you know, buy one book, buy five books. Here's the deal. You, you, uh, email me, you follow the instructions, you order one book and you say you heard me. I heard me here. I'll give you the five, the fiver for on the house. Cause I want your, I just want to thank you and your listeners. Uh, there's recipes work by my workout that takes 15 minutes twice a week. So.
00:48:28
Speaker
It's, uh, you know, I want to, the book's got recipes, it's got other resources. It's like, I've referenced other smarter people in the books. It's like, go, go read these, go, these go read these other experts. I'm, ah I'm, you know, I'm a tactician in the field as a dad. Uh, but it's it's, it was a, you know, a blast to write. It's fun editing it, uh, fun, you know, getting a chance to share it with the world. And I think that at worst you're going to read this and have a couple laughs and, dads, you could use a laugh, or you could all use the laugh. But I think at best, you're gonna walk away from this, having, you know, dog earring the pages, putting some notes in there, going back to it, ah you know, knowing when I travel, I'm gonna do this, or when my kids are getting kind of ornery, I do that. And ultimately, if we can suck a little less, we'll be better, better for our kids, better society, and just a stronger world. So yeah, you' a big, but always aiming to get some laughs too.
00:49:17
Speaker
Absolutely. And those listening or watching, all the links, they're going to be direct in the bio below to the book, to the website. That way, you don't have to memorize it. Just click on it. It'll take you right there. Easy. Simple. Just hit the link. It's easy. It's just right there. And Corey, thank you so much. It was great talking to you. I really appreciate your time and appreciate the work you're doing for dads and your care and your heart and keep up the work you're doing um and you know the impact you're having on the men and your life around you and the men that will read this book, even the moms that read this book. So thank you so much for all that you do, man. Oh, this was a pleasure. Thank you. Yeah. Have a great night.