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The Burden of Bravery: A Soldier’s Insight on Mental Health and Seeking Help (feat. Greg VanDyne)
125 Plays2 months ago
Welcome to another insightful episode of The Integrated Man Project with your host, Travis Goodman. Today, we delve deep into the world of mental health with our special guest, Greg VanDyne, a former Green Beret medic turned mental health advocate and med-tech professional. Greg shares his profound journey of transitioning out of the military, facing the stigma around mental health, and the challenging but transformative path of seeking therapy.
In this episode, Travis and Greg discuss the fear of rejection, the importance of a supportive environment, and the emotional burdens men often carry in silence. They explore the idea of normalizing conversations about mental health from a young age, the impact of social media, and the benefits of teaching emotional intelligence. Greg also shares his experiences with different therapy modalities like EMDR and his pursuit of TMS treatment.
HIGHLIGHTS:
- The Struggle of Opening Up: Greg shares his personal journey from recognizing the need for help to overcoming the fear of rejection and worthlessness that initially prevented him from seeking therapy. He discusses the impact of societal pressure on men to suppress vulnerable emotions and how it affects mental health.
- Significance of a Supportive Environment: Both Greg and I delve into the importance of having a supportive environment, whether in therapy or personal life, and how it significantly impacts mental health and the healing process. We draw parallels between the supportive nature of a military team and the need for such support when tackling personal struggles.
- Finding the Right Therapist: We entertain the idea of a "speed dating app for therapists" to make it easier for individuals to find the right fit for their therapeutic needs. Greg's candid recounting of his initial disappointments and eventual success in finding a therapist who could understand and help him highlights the importance of persistence in the therapeutic journey.
Challenge Question:
How can we as a society break down the stigma surrounding men seeking help for their mental health, and what steps can we take to normalize these conversations from a young age?
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the integrated man project podcast. I'm excited for this guest to be on. Um, and where he's at very different time zone, different place. We are in opposite ends of the world right now, which is kind of fun. It's about 11 o'clock my time. Um, or 2300 for those military listeners. And for him, I actually don't know what time it is, but I know it's early morning. It's 8 23 AM. m So it's not that early. twenty's much Okay, not that early. Yeah, it's not that early. yeah that' early And I want to welcome Greg. Greg, do the show. So how are you doing? I'm doing well, man. morning yeah i'm I'm looking forward to this one. I've been circular on my calendar.
Greg's Background and Family Life
00:00:45
Speaker
This is ah is exciting, man. um I'm glad to finally have you on and and knowing a bit about you and and
00:00:52
Speaker
Having conversations ongoing a bit on LinkedIn and and following your stuff for a while now I've i've been also excited to have and I know we had a miss a few weeks back due to some internet issues and dude it is what it is you know life happens and you had a big big change in your life a very positive change and You know I have all the grace in the world to say dude. I get it. I'm a dad you know things happen life happens, but I'm i'm stuck for you and your family for for the the the big change in your life and And so can you tell us just a quick, like, who is Greg? Like, what are you doing now? Like, what's a quick background? How many kids you have? You know? Yeah. Just a little snapshot of Greg. A little snapshot of me. Okay. Well, I won't start from birth. um Okay. Yeah. We start with like maybe pre-teen or something. Yeah. Right when you got, right when life got good, right?
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, so um Greg Van Dyne, former Green Beret medic, who got out of the military a couple of years ago, have been um you know working in the med tech space for a while. And um through my own struggles with mental health, have ventured into the mental health side of of things and really integrating myself at the intersection of like mental health and and technology, and more specifically, how we can leverage AI to ah more effectively help people going through mental health challenges. So that's kind of what's you know got me going right now um in terms of like what I'm up to. I've got two kids, five and a three-year-old, both boys. They're a handful, feral just feral human beings. um
00:02:23
Speaker
at this point in time, but they're they're my life, they're fantastic. got My wife is an attorney for the Department of Defense and that's what actually prompted our move over here to the Netherlands. So yeah, man, just enjoying enjoying dad life, i'm embracing the uncertainties of you know the entrepreneurial journey as I'm i'm sure that you're ah well aware of as well. um So it's been it's been a fun fun ride and yeah.
00:02:49
Speaker
Well, and again, that's the big news is that the big move in the house and that's that's huge. So I'm stoked for you guys to have some footing in a grounding, a place to settle in for a bit and a totally new environment.
Men's Mental Health Focus
00:03:01
Speaker
And that's really exciting. And I also relate to the boys, the feralness of it all. Although I think right now it's my five year old boy and my seven year old son and five year old son and then a two and a half year old daughter. I feel like she's probably the most feral in an odd way.
00:03:17
Speaker
I did. I was like this. There's this Instagram reel that I was, I was a doom scroll on the other day and it was like introducing like all like the types of the types of girls and it was like girls with other sisters, um, girls with a sister and a brother. And then it was like the youngest girl with two older brothers. And it was like, it was just like,
00:03:36
Speaker
her being basically just like a feral like crazy person. Yeah, she's got but she's got both. It's crazy. She's got this total feral feral side and then the like uber just what you think of like very overgeneralized girl pink dresses, sparkles, necklaces.
00:03:56
Speaker
You know, so she's got this range from that to just like straight feral. It's just this, it's one or the other. um And then she really gets in there with the, like the boys, like she just like holds her own like, guys, we got it. Like, boy guys, jet just, we got to be a little, just, she's smaller. You can't grab her by the neck and you can't whip her down like that. Like, like I get it, but just, she's two and a half. She's half your size. um And so, because when they get going now, they're they've they've hit this boost. I remember when they were five and three, man, seven and five, it's a whole, like, they got more strength now. And it's like, it's like WWE wwe in our backyard, like, just all the time. Like, they're just going, punching, kicking. And I'm like, okay, I'll let it go for a minute. But it's, it's how it could quickly change to, this is fun and games to, you know,
00:04:44
Speaker
we're We're bloodied in the face and we're going to the ER. So I'm constantly like on edge of like, okay, I'm kind of monitoring. We're cool. Nope, we gotta, you know, i'm I'm watching the faces and seeing it shift to like the anger and aggression coming out of I'm gonna kill
Greg's Personal Mental Health Journey
00:04:59
Speaker
my brother. um So yeah, i but I relate. It's a lot of fun and it's exhausting at the same time.
00:05:06
Speaker
ah And so um what you're doing now is so it kind of intrigued me ah this idea of how to leverage AI to to help mental health um and the topic that I wanted us to kind of discuss with you tonight and and what we want to just kind of explore together is.
00:05:23
Speaker
Definitely mental health and you know, I would like to hear what you do with AI, but more specifically, you know, around men and men's mental health. And we just talked about this briefly in the in the green room, is that like, why do you, you know, men suck, so to speak, at checking in on their mental health. And so that's the topic of tonight, the kind of broad umbrella and and what might be underneath that I'm excited to hear from you. So I'm just kind of you know, wondering, you know, a little bit about your story and kind of what have you noticed in in your own journey as well as maybe the men you've worked with, maybe some of the ex military or just in general, the guys you're working with now um around that idea of men's mental health and and why we kind of quote unquote suck at engaging in that. Yeah, it's ah it's a great question. And it's like, it's one that I think, you know, occupies quite a bit of my time is trying to figure out, you know, where,
00:06:13
Speaker
you know, as, as a person that has, that's recovered from their own challenges of mental health is, you know, ongoing recovery from, from challenges with mental health is like, how can I best help other people not get where I was. Um, so a couple of years ago when I was getting out of the military, if anybody's familiar with it, if you're a veteran or if you're just, you know, you, you've worked with veterans or no veterans, like with the transition out of the military is a beast.
00:06:37
Speaker
Um, you know, you are, you go from like showing up every day and being with like your closest friends, um, people that you trust with your life. Um, and working on something that like you've committed your entire life to. And then like one day it's just like all stripped away from you. You're no longer showing up to work with your friends. Um, what you're doing is like not necessarily what you're super passionate about. And so you're stripped of purpose, stripped of community.
00:07:05
Speaker
your identity is, you know, was being, for me, it was being a green beret and all of a sudden it was gone. Um, and I struggled with that for, you know, a good, a good while. And I think that I struggled in silence, um, just because, you know, I was a green beret, like, i you know, I was, I was supposed to be tough. Um, I was mentally strong. Um, all the stuff that i had gone through in the service, you know, like,
00:07:30
Speaker
this is sure, surely like the transition like bring me to my knees and and it did. And um so that, that about two years ago I contemplated suicide um for the first and in really only time, but I knew at that point that it was, you know, I needed i needed help. And after talking with a you know therapist, you know finally getting treatment, I realized how unnecessary all of that struggling really was. you know Now looking back on it, I'm grateful for it because it's kind of brought me to where I am today and it's it's allowed me to like focus you know a good portion of my career towards helping others that are struggling with
00:08:07
Speaker
with mental health um and you know specifically, not no exclusively, but specifically know ah
Therapy and Finding the Right Therapist
00:08:15
Speaker
veterans as well. um So yeah, I mean, we suck at men in general, just suck at talking about mental health and like I'm like example numero uno um in that. So yeah, yeah it's a it's an interesting topic for sure.
00:08:30
Speaker
yeah and and And I'm wondering what – from your story or from – and before we go there, yes, definitely transitioning just to kind of um speak to what you said of going from community, relationship, purpose, job, and kind of being dropped off a cliff so to speak of just that's all gone. you know So the transition is like – it's not like a gradual transition slope.
00:08:53
Speaker
So much as it is is just being you're being pushed up, but you know the lack of a better analogy putting push out of an airplane with like no parachute kind of sort of um And so it is kind of such a rapid shift It's you know and that could be really a shock to in in your case and for a lot it could be such a shock to the system to the psyche to everything right and And, you know, going to this notion of the story of your mental journey mental health journey, mental wellness journey and kind of sucking at it and being numero uno of that, can you speak a bit more of maybe why that might be? Why that might have been in a place of not opening up or talking about it or being more conscientious of it or direct with it? Kind of what were some of those barriers for you and and maybe some of the the barriers that you see and other men that you've talked with, worked with, whether within the, uh, the armed forces or outside of that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, first off, I'll say this too. I think like part of my, like part of like also what what was really difficult for me was that I also had a brand new, I had my first son.
00:09:59
Speaker
Then I had another son on the way and you know I had like all of these like things going for me. and like The most frustrating part of it all was like you know I should be grateful right now, like I should be happy. um and like The guilt of not being happy with when you have like two young sons that are like awesome and don't deserve like you know, you not being present because you're feeling some sort of way. Um, so that, like, that was also weighed heavy on me. Um, but in terms of, in terms of why men suck at opening up is, you know, I think, I think one, I think the foundation, I foundational part of it is that we've never been taught to open up about our mental health. Um, in fact, like I think we've been told to stuff it deep down inside and and not talk about it. Um, Um, and that I think has done men a a total disservice. And I think that's why you see such staggering. I mean, men, I think it's 70 or 80% of suicides are, are males. Um, and that, I mean, obviously that that number is is telling it in and of itself. Like that's, that's a problem. Um, I mean, any, any suicide is a problem. Like even if we, if we, you know, even it out to 50, 50%, like, you know, it's, it's not good. Um, but I think that it tells you that,
00:11:17
Speaker
Obviously there's something going on with men in prison yeah specifically that is causing them to to be this way. i think I think that's number one is like the foundational, like we don't we don't open up because we were never taught to. um And then the second thing, I think the big one is like the stigma around being like just like a strong, confident man and like the and you opening up and saying that i I am struggling, that being perceived weak. And there is, I think the like the most cowardly thing you could do, and like I'm speaking from my own experience, like the I was a coward in my ah in my eyes, like looking back like for not opening up sooner and asking for help.
00:11:56
Speaker
um I personally, like that's that's how I view it. It might might be a little bit, a coward might be like a strong word. like it's it's It takes a lot of strength to open up, but like that is, to me, that is the like the true definition of strength is like being willing to ah being willing to open up about your struggles and ask for help. And I think we get that wrong as well. yeah It's funny you said coward and that hit me. I was like, oh, I had a reaction to that. i was like That's the first time I've said that, but I think that like I think I believe it. I think I'm gonna have to maybe I'll change your mind well okay here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll throw some else at you. Um, by the way, this is not scripted. Those that are listening. Um, this was not ah something we talked about before. It's more of on the fly.
00:12:40
Speaker
Yeah, hit me only because I agree. I could see, I think I partly could understand why you use that word. um And I also do agree that it is a sign of strength, courage, bravery to to open up and to kind of say, hey, I need help, I'm struggling. Now, a different perspective I'm going to offer you because Coward is a strong word. It's a very strong word. it's Yeah, and and and the reason and the reason why now I can maybe, and I wanna hear more about what you mean by that. um And I think where I go is if I'm told my whole life, explicitly, implicitly, through family, through school, sports, just society at large, that to be a man, what it means to be a man is to not show, to not you know to not cry, to not,
00:13:31
Speaker
Show any vulnerable emotions because that's weakness that's being a whole bunch of also Explicit of words that I was you know that we've heard probably on the sports field or at school things like that You know or it's girly right all that kind of stuff. So if you're told your whole life that Really, it's wrong or you're weak or something's wrong with you or you're not a man especially to express really any other emotion outside of maybe, you know, anger still, you know, I mean, anger is a common one we're allowed to express. But, if you know, if you show sadness, anxiety, worry, stuff like that, the more vulnerable, distressing emotions. And we're labeled as weak or less than or not a man or something else.
00:14:15
Speaker
then why would you open up, right? And so I think what I'm what i'm positing here, and this is kind of the the thing, the hypothesis I'm working with from all the work I'm doing is in a way then other emotions are opening up um is a threat to the nervous system.
00:14:31
Speaker
And so from a nervous system perspective, meaning fight, flight, freeze, um which is often a subconscious automatic response for survival. If my brain and
Self-Worth and Internal Narratives
00:14:42
Speaker
body learn and detect that to share anything that would be considered weak as a man,
00:14:48
Speaker
is a threat to the system and so therefore I have to reject it and fight it by defending myself, by shutting things off, by disavowing parts of self or shoving things away or distracting from pain or fear, sadness, whatever, then my automatic response will be to not open up. and Because to open up is to be hurt, to be harmed, to be rejected, to be told again that I'm weak, not a man. And so my brain and my body already know that, quote unquote, that that's not safe. That's a threat. That's a danger. And so I go into an automatic response of survival, which is often either shutting down
00:15:27
Speaker
um numbing, distracting, you know, maybe pointless work, doing whatever we can to kind of keep moving forward. And so I would say, again, I could be wrong. So this is why I push back, please, that I don't think it's cowardice as much it is, is it's an automatic survival response to what I've been taught to survive.
00:15:49
Speaker
I like that. ah So I think it could be both. I think it could be both. Yes, please add to it. And and I think it's because I totally get that. Like if you're if you are just if you've just been conditioned to stuff things away and and not address them and stay even and not react and stay like emotionless. I get that. I get that. And that is, that is something that you need to unlearn. And I think that that's probably the case a lot of times. However, I think that there are people out there that recognize in themselves that, and this is me, I think that, I think that there is part of it where I was probably early on was like, okay, like this is, this is just like what I do. You know, I stuffed this away and I don't address it. Um,
00:16:35
Speaker
And, but there came a point where I knew I was like, this is not normal. I need help. And I chose not to go seek help. And I think that is the part where I say like, okay, you're a little bit of a coward for, for, for not going to seek help or I don't know. ah we can we can We can move away. I'm i amm open to moving away from the word coward, but it's like you're like you're i clearly like not facing something. like you're not you're not You're not drumming up the courage to go and and address what's wrong.
00:17:12
Speaker
yeah And well well and it went with that, and this is unique, obviously, you know I'm generalizing here, i'm I'm making a general statement. So again, the the unique story of each individual is is unique. And so what i would what I would want to know with that person is, okay, if I did open up, what am I afraid would happen?
00:17:29
Speaker
Because then then we get to we get the little more nuance ah of to what's really behind them not saying something. Like, like what's the what's the warrior fear? So if I did open up to someone that I'm struggling, here's what I predict would happen.
00:17:43
Speaker
I can tell you what what that is for me. Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the beat i'm I am like, I am a, I am extremely critical of myself. I'm so, like, I'm so critical of myself that it is difficult for me to take criticism because anything that you can say to me, I've already said to myself and it's kind of like, yeah, no like no shit. Like of course,
00:18:07
Speaker
That's the case and so like i'm very i think i'm i think i come off as very i can i can in the past i think i'm not better about it today but i can't come off as dismissive of somebody's feedback because i've already said this to myself like oh yeah yeah of course and and so.
00:18:23
Speaker
For me, opening up was a opportunity like it was was me it me like, okay, I'm going to get even more criticism and like I'm not good with that. like that was i think that was part of I think that was part of it, um and which which is which is wrong because I get feedback and criticism that is like that I haven't thought about and that's a good thing.
00:18:46
Speaker
You know, and what would that criticism mean? I guess what would be for you? Like if I got criticized, that would mean what about me? I'm already so difficult on myself. And if people are telling me things that are critical that I haven't thought of, like I am, I don't know. I can, I don't know if I can handle that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, was it like something like, uh, when I really wouldn't be enough, I'd be. Yes. I'd be. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
00:19:14
Speaker
It's a self worth thing. Like 100%. Like that is, that is, I know this, like, like I've always gotten good grades. I've, oh, I mean, I was, a I was, dude, I was a green braid and I still have self worth issues. Like I've done, I performed like the 1% of the 1% of the population and I still have self worth issues. Like that, that there's something wrong there. Right. So that was like, that was definitely my, like, this is, I don't, I,
00:19:43
Speaker
i question my ability to open up. Yeah and so I mean hearing that and I appreciate your vulnerability and strength by the way butch doing right now is a strength in sharing and I really appreciate that you just being open and just raw and so even hearing that that to me is way more it's not just coward it's it's There's so much more nuance to that. yeah It's about rejection and not having value. And so you could maybe use the word coward, but I don't think that, I mean, just to nots to like trying to help you out of more of, it's so much more than just being a coward. It's the fear of being utterly rejected and being worthless. So it's like the deepest fear of someone can have.
00:20:22
Speaker
yeah is having no value. And so it's a self-protection mechanism. That's how I'm seeing it. So like, don't say anything because if I'm already saying this and someone says something worse, this is going to affirm this. And so I don't want to even risk that. You could use the word coward, but I think that would be too narrowed of a word when I think there's there's way more story to that. Yeah. of you know, that we'd be missing if we just said that because when I hear cowards who it doesn't validate or acknowledge the the real deep fear and more than that, the deep belonging to be seen as having value being enough. and That's how I see it. I like that. This is a great topic conversation because I know that I'm probably not the one like alone in the fact that like thinking
00:21:07
Speaker
that you're, you know, you whack courage or whack strength if you don't open up, you know? Yeah, you're definitely not the only one, um yeah for sure. Yeah. You're not, so I can say that. You're definitely not the only one. um But one that I, you know, i I mean, I wrestled with that similar message too of not being enough, for sure. That was one of my, I think my shame narratives.
00:21:30
Speaker
which I did a lot of work around and often trying to prove my value by achievement um and, you know, success and doing certain things and titles, you know, getting a graduate, you know, becoming a therapist, doing certain, you know, doing these things at the time was that I would be enough, right? And that's kind of a fool's errand, right? In the end, the goalpost just keeps moving in the end. when i But when I discovered that, and no, I haven't intrinsically, I am enough.
00:21:56
Speaker
Now I could always improve, I can grow, I could change, but my value as a human is that I am enough. um And I would say the same for your kids. Like if your sons came to tell you, hey dad, I feel like I'm not enough. You'd say what to them.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah, but that you are. Yeah. That would be like the easiest, like the easiest, like yeah yeah well you're wrong. You are. It'd be the easiest, like, that's not true. But when it comes to us, I think this is very much the human condition is that, you know, when it comes to our own perception of self, we tend to be that does like that immediate auto response is so far away. It's more of the criticism, the, you know, the other things that we get stuck in, you know, the fears and the worries and concerns. And so,
00:22:36
Speaker
that kind of the friend technique I call it is think of someone you love and what would you say? And you know, 100% of the time people don't have to think about it like, no, I would never say it to my my son or my daughter or my friend or my spouse. I would never, never say that to them. i am yeah like I've considered myself a pretty like, like outwardly nice person, but oh boy, like i like it would be, it would be interesting to like to take your inner voice and just like, and just like do that externally for a day and like see where that gets you.
Supportive Environments and Mental Health
00:23:09
Speaker
treat people yeah it would yeah it would be It would be a good exercise of like, let me record that and play it back to myself. Don't do that. Anybody that's listening, probably don't do that. No, or give have a big caveat of what you're doing so people are keenly aware of what you're doing. um Yeah, but yeah, so it's ah i mean even hearing that though, you know,
00:23:30
Speaker
it's not just It's not just cowardice. um I don't think they'd be doing yourself justice, I think, expanding that. And and for other men that you work with, is like there's more to it than that. I think that might be a piece and a component, but that lacks the full story and humanity, um I think, of of the of the of you, of the of the person you're sitting with, of the man you're sitting you know helping. and you know, you could speak to that and say, you know, you're so much more than that. And it's not just about being a coward that, well, that might be a barrier, right? Which is fear, right? um And bravery is to overcome that cowardly, that the fe which is coward and fear, right? That, you know, is the same, I see it as the same and and overcoming that would be courage and bravery. But there's a lot of hurdles that come through and a lot of stop checks because also here's the thing with the brain, yeah, yeah, the brain, the brain's whole mission,
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, part of the brain, not the whole brain, is to keep you surviving. um And often, especially in in things like this, it saves time by already having a ah mapping that don't do these things. These things are threats and dangerous. Just do this stuff over here. but Whatever over here is, whether it's doom scrolling or working harder or trying to prove you're worth more because to actually face this is like life and death.
00:24:45
Speaker
um And so don't risk that's too risky to go this way. So just keep doing this these things, which we know in the end is not really effective because it leads to often more suffering, pain, isolation, suicide, right things like that. When actually we need to turn, which does take bravery and courage, also who are we talking to about it? you know are we Are we talking to people that are gonna be able to receive that well?
00:25:09
Speaker
um And I think some men that I've worked with have tried opening up to people and it was once again rejected, dismissed, etc. And so they've already predicted that and they try to get the help and then it's told. So then they even get more shut down of like, well, I'm never doing that again. And then we make vows in our head of like, nope, not doing that again. Nope. You know, so it doesn't even come on our radar. It's like a major blind spot.
00:25:31
Speaker
That's a great point. One failed attempt at like reaching out and asking for help can be so damning for, for an individual. Yeah. Well, can you tell, yeah I mean, I'd love to hear more thought on that. Like, why why do you think that would be for for an individual?
00:25:46
Speaker
Yeah, so I personally didn't experience that. like once Once I decided that like I needed help, I was able to to get some pretty decent help. Well, I mean, we can we can talk about the whole like in therapy and finding a good therapist, is like or not not a good therapist, but finding a therapist that like works well with you and jives with you is, it's like, I wish that we, I wish there was like a speed dating app for, for therapists. Like where I go almost like, there should be, there should be. I call it that when people say it's kind of like speed dating. I mean, you're fit. Let's go to the next one. I often use that analogy with people. Yeah. There should be, I should develop that. We should should develop that. what you do a speed dating and Let's talk about that. Let's talk about we'll inside that. so table Table that for later. Yeah. Yeah. Like we, like we need anything else on our plates, but yeah.
00:26:32
Speaker
yeah what's What's one more thing? It's fine, it's fine, I'm fine. So going back to this thing of, what you know, I'm curious more about that that um that comment. Yeah. Where were we? Okay. Where were we again? Sorry. I would just like totally. Oh, it was the one failed attempt at opening up. Yes. One failed attempt at opening up. You know, and how that could be so damaging. Yeah. Cause we've been talking about like the buildup to like asking for for help and like imagine like you get to that point. Like I can, I'll just put myself in and those shoes when I was ready to open up and finally was like, okay, like I need help. I know it. And if I were to have gone to somebody,
00:27:10
Speaker
Like fortunately, like my parents are fantastic. I get, you know, give me all the support that I need, but like I can imagine a, an individual going to his father and being like, with dude, I am going through it. And this is.
00:27:25
Speaker
really difficult. And then that person or your, your father being like, yeah, man, like, sorry, this is life and just deal with it. Like suck it up buttercup, you know, like that would, the, the chances of you opening up again are it's going to take some time. Like that's, that, that is, that's rejection. You know what I mean? Like for somebody that is, that is fearing rejection that that's, that's the, that's what you're getting there. You know? Yeah.
00:27:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's the worst. It's the worst fear come true. um And it would make sense. Why the heck would you open up again? Like you wouldn't. I mean, and to do it again would be a ah he like, like you said, already a massive w risk to even say something to begin with and then to be rejected and then.
00:28:08
Speaker
it'd be almost as if to ask again would be idiotic in the mind of that person. Like why in the heck would I ever, I've already learned not to do that. And I've actually heard, I've, I've had comments with people like that saying, I've already already tried that and it just went down. So I'll just learn just to kind of keep going. Um, which is so, it's so heartbreaking to hear those stories. Um, and you mentioned from a dad and that, you know, specifically to hear that from your own dad would be just, it just a knife to the heart because that's such, you know, that's such a big buildup of,
00:28:37
Speaker
ask you know, building up the courage to say something and then it'd be completely invalidated and rejected. It's just like, the it's worse than, it could be worse than death, you know, in one way. But you, you, when you opened up though, you had a, people were supportive. Yeah. Yeah. Very supportive. I mean, I had, and you know, the military, so there's a lot of issues with like receiving care as a veteran. um But there are so many organizations out there that are willing to help.
00:29:04
Speaker
um You just have to go and be proactive about finding them and I think that's where like a support system like really comes into play because it's like when you're when
Normalizing Mental Health Conversations
00:29:13
Speaker
you're down that low like the last thing you want to do is like work around a bunch of like administrative red tape to try to get like care. Um, so having someone that's like willing to, I can't hold you through that and be like, like hold you accountable. Like let's get through this, but I know it sucks that you have to like, you know, fill out all these forms and all you want to do is like get better, and but this is just part of the process. Having that support system like for that is super helpful. And then just like, you know,
00:29:41
Speaker
therapy, you you go to a therapy session for an hour, but like you still live your entire life. So like you have to unpack all of that outside of therapy as well. And having people that are willing to, to listen and, you know, talk through things with you and heal with you is, is super, super important. Like you're, you're not going to, you're 100% not going to heal yourself within that hour long therapy session each week. Like there's so much work that goes on outside of it. Um, yeah and a good support system is it's worth, it's worth its weight in gold for sure.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, and then I think about those, and and thank you for saying that, because I think that's, I often share that with the clients I work with is, hey, I can't, you know, in the hour session we have together once a week or whatever. Well, it you know, it's going to be amazing and and powerful, right, as I sit with you and bestow my, no I'm just kidding, I'm sorry, I'm not, I don't talk like this.
00:30:30
Speaker
But i mean as I tell them, hey, this is now you're going to get some insight and we're going to do some work and I'm going to do like hard work with you at times. And also a lot of listening and and and being present. But like I think to speak to what you said, ah often it's it's what do you do in between sessions? How do you take what we're talking through and practice and implement and reflect and do some of that work? And that's where more growth happens. and the importance of having a support system or supporting environment versus going back to an environment that isn't supportive or there, I think is a significant difference in outcomes that I've seen with clients that many clients have worked with that have that kind of environment that is like very gracious understanding supportive there versus like I go back into chaos, right? And I go back into an environment that is anything but that. In fact, that environment might be causing even more
00:31:19
Speaker
more more pain, um very different, I think, trajectories that I've seen um numerous times. So I think that's ah i think a huge point um is having good people in your life that you can, that can help share the burden and then and kind of journey with you versus alone.
00:31:37
Speaker
which I guess is really, and in some ways, and a military idea, right? I mean, to some degree, I would say, right? We don't leave no man behind or woman behind, right? That a whole notion of we we carry each other's burdens, we help each other out, we're a team, we're not alone, you know? So, but I know sometimes it's not always implemented perfectly when it comes to certain aspects in other areas, but I think the, you know, the the idea is there, is a team approach, you know?
00:32:02
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I think, I mean, you bring up such a good point. Like I'm just trying, I guess you're talking about that. I was trying to think to myself what it would be like to have gone to like opened up, gone to therapy and start getting like good help. And i didnt like, you know, talk with somebody like you and and feeling like, okay, wow, really making headway. And then you go home and you're just like in this environment that doesn't ah you know not maybe not even home, but like maybe it's your friend group and stuff like that. Um, it's just, it's so comp it's, it gets so complicated. Um, because if it's like, you know, if it's your friend groups like trying to heal and then also say goodbye to, you know, distance yourself from ah a friend group that you might've had for a while, like habits that you that that have formed over time that you need to drop. It's just, so it's mental health is, it's so crazy to me that it's not the,
00:32:53
Speaker
number one most talked about thing. it's I know it's like there's still a bunch of stigma around it, but like it is so complicated that like we have to be willing to talk about it. and like It has to be like it has to be like something you talk about when you sit down with your family to eat. um you know like that's ah To me, like that's how important it is. because and the The closer we get to that,
00:33:16
Speaker
you know the earlier we started addressing these things, the better off our next generation of, cause there's, this is like a whole other topic, but like, there's just like so much noise out there. There's so many reasons not to like, that like not have good mental health, um, you know, social media, um, social media being like the, the, the number one, um, culprit of that. And I think that, yeah, we just need to, people just need to talk about mental health. Like she needs to be a topic conversation and everyday life.
00:33:46
Speaker
I mean, definitely that upstream approach of um starting young, like part of everyday conversation, normalizing it, um just part of like, like physical health, everything else, like, just how are you doing? You know, just basic checkups of like, this is what we do when we talk up and building emotional intelligence around,
00:34:03
Speaker
verbalizing what's actually going on emotionally and bodily. you know i'm big I'm big on teaching
Navigating Therapy and Finding the Right Fit
00:34:09
Speaker
kind of you know what's happening mentally and emotionally emotionally in your thoughts, but also what's happening. How's your body manifesting that? like what's As you feel this, what are you experiencing in your body? you know That fear, that sadness, like what's happening? you know how is that What's the mind-body connection?
00:34:24
Speaker
And so I agree that we need to definitely be doing it earlier. And I i talk with my boys and my daughter, she kind of gets it, but but we do emotion talk all the time, trying to normalize feelings and talk about different things. And because I do believe that, you know, it needs to be kind of just on an ongoing, regular dialogue around just life. It's just, it's just as important as everything else. And being open and having dialogues with my seven, five and two and a half year old.
00:34:50
Speaker
As silly as that might seem to because like talking, I mean, obviously talking about a FICA five and seven year old, like about their emotions is, it seems probably like kind of silly cause like, you know, they're like so up and down and like they have difficulty like regulating their, their own emotions, but it's like,
00:35:07
Speaker
It's like if you yeah a giving up feeding your kids broccoli after like one time. like if you If you were just to feed them once and they didn't like it, but yeah they're never going to or they're never going goingnna learn to appreciate eating broccoli. and like you know they're not going to They're not going to like it. right yeah but It's just something that you have to just hit home and like slowly over time. like so When they become, like when they're when they are 14 and 15 16 years old and they're dealing with like very confusing emotions. or so Yeah. That, yeah that they're like, Oh, they're like, Oh, okay. Well, I, I've been talking about this for the past 15 years about my emotions. Like there's no question as to whether or not I'm going to talk about this and, and, you know, come to you and come to your wife and actually have like a no shit conversation.
00:35:52
Speaker
But yeah, and and that's the hope, right? I mean, that's the hope. if not And if not me or my wife, like a good family friend that they also have been around. another Another guy that I trust, another dad, another mom, right? Other people that they see us also talking with that's invested in their life. And again, I go back to the community thing of having community even for my kids.
00:36:13
Speaker
the necessity of having that because i do know part of teenagers is also you know individuation and pushing against parents as part of natural normal brain you know um human development and so having people that they can go to and have confidence in is also very important and that i know these people that i know kind of how they think and their somewhat stance around that, you know, because I want to make sure that people speaking in their life are speaking truth and and listening well and and things like that. And, but something else you mentioned earlier too, was, um you know, going back to finding a therapist and we were kind of joking a bit about, you know, having ah a kind of a speed dating app for therapists, not dating because we'd lose our license. We'll have to come up with a different name.
00:36:56
Speaker
Yeah, we'll call it something else. ah But people still do that and lose their license, still to this day, by the way. I'm just, it baffles me, um by the way. And what I think I realized it doesn't matter what training, what degree you have, how much money do you have, people are people, and does not mean you're healthy or or healed.
00:37:13
Speaker
at all. It doesn't mean anything, um unfortunately. But going back to finding a therapist, and I wonder what was that journey since you mentioned it? What was that journey like for you? Did you like the first one? Was it was it a hit? Was it like, don't like this, need to find someone else? You know, was that an easy process, a stressful process?
00:37:32
Speaker
um Yeah, like it was. um So the first therapist that I saw was like a complete flop. And the the main issue was like I showed up and then like it was an hour of her talking um and like telling me about like what PTSD is, what depression and anxiety are. And I'm like, okay, well, you know, give me a chance to like tell you how I'm feeling. Or are we are we just going to like go over like definitions and you're going to tell me like,
00:38:02
Speaker
And she's like, do you, do you notice where you're, do you notice where you're sitting right now? And I was sitting close to the door. Um, she's like, that is, that's a coping mechanism or like a defense mechanism. And I was like, sure, like that's fine. Like you can think that, and maybe it was, I don't know, but like, we're not really, are we going to unpack this or are we going to continue talking at me? So needless to say, there was no second, there was no second date on that, that, uh, particularly particularly Again, speed dating would have been great. It's like, cool, five minutes we're out. Yeah. Yes. Speed dating would have been great. Oh man. It might work. We might be able to do speed dating a therapist and somehow make it work. I mean, I'm just thinking about like the hilarity of like, you just like hitting the next button and they're just like cutting off. it's like And I'm done. Yeah. not So I could either go real good or real poorly. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
00:38:54
Speaker
And uh, so then that' work that didn't work. Um, but the, the next therapist I saw was like, it was fantastic. I mean, it was great because he was a ah former green beret himself. So like,
00:39:08
Speaker
that was like instant rapport. Like instantly he gets it. Like he knows when I'm going through. And so it was just far easier to like to open up and he like was, he just, he got me man. Like he like totally got me and nailed me to a T and like we were able to ah he And he listened. I think that was like the most of like I could tell that he was like listening and taking everything in. And I think I was probably very fortunate in the sense that I was able to um hit it or get it right on the the second go around.
00:39:41
Speaker
Um, so like anybody listening to this, that's like struggling, finding a therapist, I would say like, just don't give up. Cause like, there's, there's definitely going to be one out there that is going to be your cup of tea. Um, you just gotta be willing to go through and in not to say like with the first, like I probably got some stuff out of that first meeting, like you're going to get something out of each therapy session, even if you don't necessarily jive with that person. And it, and even if it's just to say like, this person isn't for me and like,
00:40:09
Speaker
even that is like sort of helpful in the sense of like, I know, like it's, it's like sort of like reaffirming, like I know who I am and I know that this is not for, this is probably not the person for me. Um, so there is, um, whether or not it ends up being a good fit or not, like there's some, some worth to just going in and sitting down and talking with somebody for an hour, whether or not you drive with it or not.
00:40:32
Speaker
And that's, I mean, not to get too off topic about why men suck at getting help, although this is part of it, it fits, it's under the umbrella of why men suck. And again, this is not that men suck, I know it's tongue in cheek thing, but hey, it'll be a catchy title and hopefully people click and listen. Why men suck, because yeah I'm sure a lot of people want to get on that bandwagon, um different topic. But no, that like I think part of it is too, is just the navigating, finding a therapist.
00:41:00
Speaker
um Where do you start? Especially, okay, I've been a practicing therapist for 10 years, so I live and breathe this. So to me, I don't have to think about it, but if I've never gone to therapy, I don't want to start. like Where do you begin? like Who and what do you look for? right There's actually, if I think about it, and maybe you could speak to this, there's a lot. And then who's paying for it? Is insurance paying for it? Do I have insurance? is that you know ah what What kind of therapist do I need? you know like that There's a lot of questions there.
00:41:28
Speaker
No, I can give ideas about what you may want to look for. But I think as a, an individual for the first time coming out, it could be kind of overwhelming, you know, like, I don't know where to start. Who do I ask my friend? Do I ask my dad? Do I look online? Like, right? I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure what it was like for you or if it was like someone gave you a name. Um, so for me, it was pretty easy because I worked through a bunch of like veteran organizations to, to get me connected. So there yeah that aspect, I mean, it was super,
00:41:57
Speaker
actually pretty easy. It was like the the administrative side it wasn't wasn't too terribly difficult. um getting like actual because i'm I'm on anti-depression, anti-anxiety meds. That was like more of a ah difficult um part of my journey, like getting help through the VA. The VA is great once you're in. It's just like kind of difficult to get started. yeah no there' That's a whole different topic though.
00:42:22
Speaker
Um, but yeah, i'm I'm like sitting here thinking as you're saying, this is is the point that I'm trying to make doing it in a very roundabout way is that I don't know. Like if you were to tell me right now, like when we get off this call, Hey, go sign up for therapy. I don't, like, I would search, I would search therapy and I would like probably go online and, and, and try to find like, but I don't know, like, I don't know what, what therapy should cost. I don't know like what my insurance covers. Like there's so much.
00:42:52
Speaker
but That I, that I'm like, I'm racking my brain right now. i go what yeah I would search for therapy and like, that's like, then I would be totally in the dark from there. I could just be shooting in the dark. Yeah. And well what one, to your point, I'm glad that, uh, because of, you know, VA and everything that they kind of helped connect you.
00:43:12
Speaker
um And that's, that's good. I think having a guide for sure, what makes the whole process much easier. But to the other point that you're saying is it is, it's like, I just type in therapy and Google and do I take, who do I trust? What's the, cause there's a lot like, what specialty do I need? um You know, those are all huge questions. Who, how am I going to pay? How much does it cost? What is a typical therapy session cost out of pocket? and Do I have an insurance that pays for that? And are they on that panel? And how often do you go? I mean, there's a lot of, because again, we're not talking about it as much. So there's no like, it's kind of like you said, shooting in the dark, like I have no idea what it's supposed to look like. Again, I know because I do this all day every day, that's why i I live and breathe this. But anyone coming in is it is kind of like,
00:43:58
Speaker
It's a lot, it can be a lot of hurdles. And so for some people there is no, it's like they're, they are Googling or kind of figuring stuff out as they go. And I think having education around that ahead of time would be helpful to say, hey, here's my, as a therapist, here's the things you want to think through, things you want to look for, things that, you know, you may want to check into the, their, this therapist furthering education outside of therapy school and then graduate school, because that's really where they get most of their training anyway.
00:44:27
Speaker
um even though graduate school is about three years. And then we have to get 3000 hours in California to get licensed. Well, most of my expertise came in continuing education and getting further certifications, which was almost like taking many master's courses on top of my schooling. And so these are things that people if you don't know, you don't know. And, but regardless of that, I think, and you kind of said this earlier is difference between therapist one, therapist two,
00:44:55
Speaker
And I do respect your viewpoint on on the first one, saying, hey, I still learned something from it. That's a very mature response, I would say, is even though it didn't fit, i still I took away something. But the difference between therapist one and therapist two is that you felt heard and understood and listened to, and that you trusted him, right? There's trust there. And I think that is, you know, the the biggest predictor of success in therapy is that the level of trust you have in your therapist.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yep. ah That's like, if you don't have that, you're never, you're never going to get anywhere because you can't trust what your
Exploring Therapy Options like EMDR
00:45:23
Speaker
therapist is. Like the feedback that your therapist is giving you, like, yeah, you're a shit out of luck. Yeah, definitely shit out of luck. Definitely SOL for sure. I mean, you are and and that, and a lot of the research will speak to that of like, that is the biggest predictor of success.
00:45:37
Speaker
No, we need skills. We need tools. And I do think, I do believe that some people need specialties. I'm not saying not everyone can treat everything. I think that's a misconception. Um, and I know some in just some, how do I say this? Go on and say it, say what see what you want to say.
00:45:53
Speaker
Some health insurance companies, company I might work for one, um partly, is that they they say everyone's like a generalist and there really is no specialty. So you kind of just get first come. It's just like whoever's available. Now, therapists in general could treat a lot.
00:46:09
Speaker
most therapists we could do a lot of basic stuff but some people do need specialty and they need someone who has further expertise in a particular area to be effective. I think to be most effective and I think sometimes the R industry can be treated at least when you're dealing with in somewhat level of insurance and reimbursement is that it is kind of a um an expectation that you should just it's like a one size fits all versus No, we need to be a little more nuanced and we might need to look for something very specific to help us individuals so they can one, spend less time in therapy, so they're out much more quickly and have more effective holistic change that's lasting. ah and And this is just from my own experience because I, and also it's a growth because when I first got out of grad school, like I knew a lot, but I also knew, did not know a whole lot.
00:46:59
Speaker
um and Which is also hard as a therapist because we're supposed to be sitting in front of people as the expert and I soon realize that's not the case. I'm like, shoot, I don't know that much. Like I know a lot, but as I'm sitting with this person in front of me, I'm seeing all of my blind spots, weak spots and things that have big holes in my brain that I have no idea what to do.
00:47:17
Speaker
So um I think not to scare people coming to therapy by the way for the first time, but I think it's like in any job, any industry, but it's like I'm dealing with a person here and I got to do my best. And thankfully we do have supervision that we turn to, we can talk to people and get some help who might have that expertise.
00:47:33
Speaker
But I think if you're a person looking for therapy now, I think being able to like understand different models of treatment, you know like you know CBT, you know DBT, EMDR, somatic work, or drug-assisted therapy. I know you recently posted something and about you know a drug that was I'm not going to be able to be used for by the VA, but like all these things, like educating people on kind of what these things do, because as you're kind of shopping or speed dating, it would probably be helpful to know what these things are, because we I know what all these things are, but someone coming in, it's like, these are all like, I don't know, acronyms. I don't know what half this stuff means. And what is that? What is this? What's this? What does this do? And what's the right treatment for me? And so I think having education, like with the kids and everything else is like so needed. This needs to be part of the app, I think.
00:48:23
Speaker
is that you teach like it's like you like go through a questionnaire and like um are you self pay are you this are you that and then it like filters through all of the different providers that are available to you yeah and then speed date them i like that.
00:48:37
Speaker
Yeah, and then maybe with that, it tells you some treatment modalities or protocols that that have been shown to be effective for, you know, whatever problems you're coming in with to want to resolve. And then maybe a little blurb about each one with like links to a website or their main site to give, you know, more deep dive in each one. And then you then you can speed date and see people's like, hey, this person, that's what they do. And you can see, yeah. Hey, we're on to something. or Look at this, we're already on to something. Dude, we are on to something.
00:49:06
Speaker
I'm into it. I think it's a good idea. I'm going to go tell my wife about this and she's going to be like, no, no, not and not another, not a goddamn thing. Greg, no you have enough on your plate. greg Um,
00:49:19
Speaker
Yeah, and so so I'm glad that your second therapist um was effective and and that you found someone who you who could listen well and who got you and that in a way gave you a sense of like safety that you can, there's a familiarity, like you said, that kind of enabled you to kind of like, oh cool, like he he gets me and I can go there. um And at a curiosity, how long did you see that guy for, give or take? Was it six months, a year, two years still seeing him?
00:49:46
Speaker
like six months cuz it was um it was we stop cuz i like to see therapist in person um so i'm working to find one over here um in the Netherlands in the Netherlands which is not it's not too terribly difficult um Okay. Just figuring out the, yeah I'm trying to find somebody that's on base first, um, over here. Um, so I don't have to pay for it, but if I do have to afford, it's fine. Again, it's just all comes down to like, if there's somebody that I drive with on base, cause they're prior, they're all military, you ah you know, usually
00:50:18
Speaker
ah Familiarity working with military at least so but yeah, I saw him for six months and then we stopped as soon as I left for the Netherlands Okay, and was it was it I mean from your experience for six months like did you kind of were able to see a difference from like day one to six months?
00:50:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. We did EMDR therapy too. He was certified. So that was like, that was anybody out there. Like EMDR therapy is like fantastic. I agree. Yeah. Yep. I know you know. Um, I agree. So that was, that was super helpful for me. Like I like could like literally feel my anxiety levels like like dropping as I was doing good EMDR therapy. So that was, that was fantastic. Um,
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah. there And so over here, it's got totally off topic, but there's, there's transcranial magnetic stimulation. Have you heard it? yeah i'm sure Have you heard of that? So Ma University of Maastricht. So that's sort of close to it to where I live or might be Maastricht university.
00:51:16
Speaker
um It's like 20 minutes away. They're like the like premier institution for TMS. Um, so I'm trying to figure out a way to get referred over there to start doing some of that. Cause that's supposed to be, um, extremely helpful as well.
Individualized Therapy Approaches
00:51:31
Speaker
I might. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:32
Speaker
totally third yeah so Yeah, no, it can be. Especially for those that are, at least my understanding, and usually people that are treatment resistant and medication resistant and they've done trials and nothing's moving, they'll do TMS or or ECT is another one um people have tried. But I mean, dude, if you had success with EMDR, not to tell you what to do, but I'd say try and find someone who can keep doing that or some somatic work. Cause that stuff, you know, it's it's it's not typical it's not typical talk therapy.
00:52:02
Speaker
Yes, no, it's definitely not. And I think that's the shift is that, I think it was, because even EMDR sessions, like I don't, with people, I tend to kind of, we do like an EMDR session and we kind of have a comp, then we have like more of a brain session, like ah a, you know, a processing session, which is more top typical talk therapy, and then do an EMDR session, like a desensitizing session back. So it kind of helps the kind of understanding of what happened and then actually moving through the movement, right?
00:52:29
Speaker
And i same thing, I found stuff I used to do previously before I learned EMDR. When I now know EMDR, I'm like, how was I doing? I mean, again, you know what you know. um People did get better, but it was like 10 times longer. Like ah now that it it's like a power tool and it's really effective. It's so much quicker than just talking through things.
00:52:48
Speaker
um because it's it's getting to more of some of the, it's the body stuff, it's the stuck emotions, it's the the images, right? All that stuff is kind of, you know, helping the brain be reintegrated. So I'm so glad that you had a good experience of EMDR and and um I always love hearing that, that it's successful to people and find benefit, so.
00:53:08
Speaker
Have you had somebody that's not been successful? I'm sure that they're they're out there, but like yeah it's i so like way more often I personally haven't heard anybody that's had a negative experience with it. I haven't had a negative experience. I've just had some A couple things I found in my own doing it is some that a few people with some pretty significant ADHD, I've had to get more creative with it um because of, you know, a few that their brain is like all over the place. And so i've I've done a little bit. I've changed the protocol a bit to help them. I've had to be more like sticking with the body sensation versus just like, um, allowing, you with it you know, what we say is, Hey, what we're going to start, you know,
00:53:52
Speaker
start bilateral stimulation right now with the tappers on or or whatever you're doing, light bar, hand, or sound. um Let whatever happens happens, right? So when I do that with a few people that have had some pretty significant HD, like they just they just kind of get stuck in all the like the rapid firing of everything.
00:54:08
Speaker
And so I've had them stick with more of, hey, just focus on just the body sensation and just follow that. So keeping it really tight. But initially when I started working with a few, I'm like, we're not getting, we're just like looping. It just, it seems like we're not going anywhere. um So that's one thing I noticed. um Also initially working with someone who's really, really depressed, like too depressed.
00:54:30
Speaker
Um, where they're too numb and disconnected, it's hard because they're not activated enough to, to, to get their mind and body engaged in the processing. So with them, it won't be successful until I wake them up a bit. So usually that's when we recommend like an antidepressant or something to kind of lift that depression a bit. So it's not so heavy.
00:54:49
Speaker
um But yeah, so I think it's not that I haven't had people found be successful, it's that I feel like some people, depending on what they come in with, we have to be more creative with it and to figure out how we get them to be able to process. I think is what I've, personally, what I found. But outside of some of those extremes, yeah, most people now, it's like we get in, we get out and things are shifting and moving pretty quickly, um which I really like. And we're not having to talk about it really at all to some degree, yeah which is cool.
Encouragement to Seek Help
00:55:15
Speaker
um So anyway, it's so stoked that you had great experience um and it's it's good to hear. So, and TMS is a whole other whole other research thing and another treatment of a doubt that again, people don't know about, right? um It's a whole other whole other ballpark, whole other game, but it can be effective. And I've seen people have really good effects from it. I've also worked in places where they came back and didn't really see much was different. You know, I've seen both. So um I think even the research has shown that too a bit. It just depends.
00:55:46
Speaker
You know, go back to why men suck. I'm wondering as we kind of being mindful of time, we could probably keep talking for a lot longer about all this stuff, but I want to be conscientious of your day with your kids and your family. Also, it's 12.30 now, so. Yes, 12.30 now. I understand what I'm doing. I've accepted my fate that I'm going to be tired tomorrow.
00:56:13
Speaker
and um But you I'm wondering if we think of you know if you would encourage you know your younger self about this or you know a guy who's coming in who's hesitant, you know what would you want to say to them about you know their mental health or about opening up or about showing courage and and kind of coming in to to seek out some support. like What would you want them to know? What would you have wanted to know um at that time that you were struggling? What would have been helpful?
00:56:41
Speaker
Yeah. Um, like, I guess like first off is that you're not alone in, and this is so common and there's nothing wrong with you. This is just like part of being human. I think that, like, that is important to, to know, like just because you're struggling with your mental health, like that says, that says nothing about you as a person other than you are human and that should stick with you. Um,
00:57:04
Speaker
The next thing that I would say is is itll it gets better. in It will get better. You just have to allow yourself the the time and grace to to get there because it's it's it's going to get worse. and I don't want to like scare anybody away from like seeking help, but like it gets worse before it gets better and you have to be okay with that.
00:57:29
Speaker
Um, it's not like, uh, you don't, you don't like show up to to therapy and like have this like linear path of things getting better. You're going to be like, cut you're, you're doing this because you're strong and you're willing to do hard things. And part of doing those hard things is looking into why you're feeling this way. And that can be really, really difficult sometimes. And, but that shouldn't discourage you from, from continuing on and, and working through and and and healing.
00:57:57
Speaker
Um, because it's just like anything in life. Like you get in what you put out and yeah, but I think like the getting started and like just being, I mean, the guy I always like realistic advice and, um, I don't want to like sugarcoat anything. Like, it I mean, it does it's, it's hard. It's difficult. Therapy is difficult. It's not easy. And, um, if it was everybody would be perfectly happy and we'd live in and a utopian society and yeah it would totally suck. And yeah so that that's like my would be like my.
00:58:24
Speaker
30,000 foot view of like, cause it's a like you're saying, like it it's, it's so complex. Like we've talked this whole time, like it's so, so complex. Everybody's different. Everybody's situation is different. Everybody's trauma is different, but at the same time it's all.
00:58:41
Speaker
very similar, like it all takes like the the same type and level of effort to to heal. Yeah. and and And I appreciate that, um that wisdom and kind of what you would have told yourself or guys you work with and that, you know, it is to some degree, it is harder. You're asked to face and walk through the pain and move through it. And so that's hard. It's a hard ask if I'm honest, like that's hard. That's a hard day when just checking out, numbing out might feel better momentarily and in the short term. And so it's, ah it's a tough shift.
00:59:11
Speaker
a mentality of mindset of everything else. And so again, more so of having a supportive environment, right? When you are coming home, I think makes everything that much better for you when you're having a hard, had a hard therapy session and stuff came up and you're pretty drained or tired, especially.
00:59:26
Speaker
you know, doing EMDR the day following, you know, day or two following after a pretty intense EMDR session, you could be pretty wiped out and tired, right? I mean, I'm not, that's usually what I've experienced with my clients. I'm not sure if that was your experience or not, but you could be pretty extra tired or out of it or yeahp fatigued because it's a pretty hard internal workout.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah. I second those that, Hey, um, you're not alone. It's, it's human. Um, you're not weak. It's, we all need support and men need to hear that more and normalizing that, that it's not weakness, you know, part of being human and it's okay. And there's a lot of people to support. It's just, you know, hopefully that, I know some, for some men they've had experiences with it's not supportive, but there is support out there. And as you said, the bright look in the right place.
01:00:12
Speaker
And so with that said, last two quick questions. One, where can we find you if people want to follow you, listen to your stuff, et cetera. Yeah. fine great So I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So you can just find me there. Greg Van Don. Um, I talk about mental health quite a bit.
01:00:28
Speaker
So if you're interested in that type of content, I try to keep it pretty like uplifting and don't don't get negative. um So always try to be a bright but right spot in people's feed and also talk about like challenging topics, which is mental health, mental health is just a challenging topic and it deserves. And my my whole point is to get it out there and kind of like we were talking this whole this whole time, just make it a prominent part of our lives because it is and give it the platform it
Conclusion and Where to Find Greg Online
01:00:58
Speaker
deserves. If I be there, I also have a podcast called the Harder or Not Smarter podcast that I host with my buddy Kevin Seif, who's a former Navy SEAL. um so We talk about entrepreneurship, we talk about mindset,
01:01:12
Speaker
And we we also talk about mental health. um So that's where you can find me you can find me on any listening or viewing platform like YouTube, Spotify, Apple. We're we're on all of them. so just go where you listen to your podcasts if you want to listen to us. Um, yeah, yeah. So that's where you can find me and direct links for all those things. Um, those watching those listening will be all in the description, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, all there to click, um, to take you to all these places to see Greg and the final question real short, but an important one is what current music are you listening to that's speaking to you? Oh goodness. So yeah. So I usually like when I'm, when I'm running or,
01:01:52
Speaker
I do acoustic chill like on Spotify. That's, that's what I was doing. So I am like the literal worst at song names and artists. Like if you ask, if there's a song playing on the radio and you ask me who's singing it, I will tell you it's Ed Sheeran. And it doesn't matter if it's, is yeah it's just Ed Sheeran. Everything's Ed Sheeran. Yeah, so there's no specific song. However, one one um that I do know that I really enjoy listening to, and this is more for like if I'm like working and just need some like background music to
01:02:26
Speaker
I don't know, drown out my thoughts. I don't know why I listen to music while I'm working, but but it's called the wood of each I naughty. Uh, he's a, he's a classical, um, pianist and like musical artists. And so he he's got some great stuff. I listened to best of wood of each I naughty on YouTube. I just put on, um,
01:02:44
Speaker
his like best hits. It's like, it's just, it's just like really good. Like, I don't know. Like there if there's like, it's weird to say that like classical music like gets me like hyped up, but like that kind of does it like makes you like, it's like some like background Jason Bourne music yeah getting my heart rate up.
01:02:58
Speaker
No, I think that's great. It's, uh, it's the acoustic chill and I'm going to butcher the name, but the name that you said would have each I naughty. Yep. Would have each I naughty. Um, that's pretty good. I could be butchering the name. Uh, I, I, I've never heard it before. That's just how I pronounce it. Well, you have to share that, share that link with me in the, I'll put it in the, I'll put that in the description as well. If you want to listen to this guy, you could, you could, everyone else could find acoustic chill mix on Spotify. That's easy, but this one to get it right, I'll put it in the link so that you can click on it. Hey, Greg, thank you. And thanks for just being here, showing up, opening up, being authentic, showing strength, vulnerability as a guy, and just, just having this conversation and blessings to the work you're doing and,
01:03:41
Speaker
um that you have done that you will do. And yeah, man, just thank you so much for your time. Thank you, man. Really, bre really enjoyed it. Yeah. Have a good day.