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173- European wolves under fire, whilst Italian deer spared...for now
0 Playsin 7 hours
Is it because they're cute? Are Italians more forgiving? Or is it simply that the deer aren't a threat to animal ag? Either way, another mixed bag of news this week, with some animals' outcomes improving, whilst others are not so lucky. Julie, Mark & Ant sit down to report on, comment & dissect eight stories from the last week or so- all of which have a vegan or animal rights slant.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With the Vegan Week podcast, we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
Each week we look through news stories from the past 7 days in the world of veganism & animal rights.
If you spot any news stories that might catch our fancy, or have an idea for a discussion topic, get in touch via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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This week's stories:
https://plantbasednews.org/culture/massive-attack-co-op-plant-based/
https://www.foodanddrinktechnology.com/news/58801/vegetarian-diet-beats-vegan-for-the-prevention-of-diabetes-according-to-university-of-reading-study/
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=1018284490390484&set=a.569455348606736 (I struggled to find more on this; are you happy to cover this Julie, or I can find another story that might have more content on it?)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/starmer-could-weaken-animal-protection-112611221.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAL8IVPW0ja5WRw7AP2Z8-OuMAcCbWz3kfu-cyVLCsQ_RpGsLdCYqqXTvll8sbPyH990YvevhHVHrar5cV_ot6PKqpkaSh3kOgSwcS7f_uhmqtX-4EKjpSgow6Ksn1-8w1qiEyQwKW_pkZuWPzdXl_RRzkaU0b8mrzgEjeZPHZgcl
https://www.farminguk.com/news/iceland-abandons-its-2025-cage-free-egg-commitment_66538.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e5398lp51o
https://www.theanimalreader.com/2025/05/08/eu-parliament-votes-to-weaken-protection-for-wolves-sparking-outrage-from-conservationists/
https://euroweeklynews.com/2025/05/14/how-italys-deer-outsmarted-the-hunters-and-the-law/
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Julie, Mark & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction and Vegan News
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to your one-stop shop for vegan and animal rights news. I'm Anthony and joining me for this episode where we look back at the last week's newsy bits are Julie and Mark. But that is enough of the falafel, it's time for Vegan Week.
00:00:17
Speaker
So I think vegans go looking for trouble even when they're not looking for trouble. That's not what butter's used Brrr! Take your flab-grown meat elsewhere. We're not doing that in the state of Florida. What about your protein and what about your iron levels? Should I call the media and say, hi, sorry? They're arguing like, oh, poor woe is me.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hang on a minute. You always pick
00:00:44
Speaker
social injustice has connection another. That's just what people think vegans eat anyway. As long as you don't get the wee brunions with the horns you'll be all alright. Does veganism give him superpowers?
00:00:59
Speaker
I cannot fly around the city. I don't have laser vision. Hello everyone, julie here. Welcome to this episode of Vegan Week.
00:01:11
Speaker
Thank you very much for tuning in. Hi everyone, this is Mark here. This is our new show where we will look at the last week's vegan and animal rights news. That's enough of the flat fill. Let's hear what's been going on this week.
00:01:27
Speaker
For more details on the upcoming news stories, including links to our original source material, check out our show notes for this episode, available on your podcast player.
Sustainable Venues and Events
00:01:37
Speaker
Okay, our first story this week, we are becoming culture vultures. This story comes to us from Plant Based News and they have told us that the Co-op Live Arena that is in Manchester, England, they have announced that the upcoming Massive Attack concert, Massive Attack or a band, children, they will serve only plant-based food.
00:01:59
Speaker
to underscore their quote shared mission of sustainable live entertainment. This was announced earlier in the month um but because we're not actually the culture vultures that we claim to be we've only picked this up because ah I've been scouring plant-based news the last few days.
00:02:16
Speaker
This is a notable first for this arena. They do however the co-op live they permanently feature a large array of solar panels, rainwater harvesting,
00:02:27
Speaker
Intelligent energy controls, reusable cups, zero waste to landfill policy, which is all interesting from an environmental point of view. But obviously, from a vegan and animal rights point of view, Mark, the fact that there's a 23,500 capacity venue not serving any animal products, admittedly for one concert,
00:02:49
Speaker
that's quite a big deal isn't it i wasn't aware that massive attack were uh such a switched on band mean i i don't know much about them i'm from i'm from i'm familiar with their hits i know it's sort of trip-hop quite sort trancy music it seems quite good uh it's it's a it's a really good statement it's it's a giving me an idea about ah glastonbury which of course is held every year most years and on Michael Evis' dairy farm.
00:03:16
Speaker
And I was thinking a good way of combating the climate crisis at Glastonbury would be if and a couple of tens of thousands of people were to break off from the main festival and go and find where he hides his cows due during the three-day festival.
00:03:31
Speaker
and hide them away somewhere and and sort of shut down his did his dairy operation. During during the DM headline act on the Saturday night or something, tens of thousands of people could sort of move away from the back of the crowd and just sabotage his form and stuff.
00:03:49
Speaker
Or I was thinking of harnessing the kinetic energy. yeah have you Have you ever seen ah video footage on YouTube of these straight edge gigs over from the States, like Minor Threat and gorilla biscuits and some of that right the the the the energy in those places if if you if you if you could harness that energy somehow if you could strap electrodes to the stage divers bodies or something like this and so and harness the energy i think that would keep the amps going along but i think that's a that's a little bit for further down the e road
00:04:21
Speaker
There ah used to be a sound system called the Rinky Dink sound system that used to appear at some of the green fairs and some of the Reclaim the Streets events as well. And it it was powered by punters riding a bicycle, a static bicycle, and the kinetic energy from that would keep the sound system going. So that there was a revolving lineup of people who would queue up and ride the bike for half an hour or an hour or a few hours, depending on how much drugs they that that they they had had taken and that will power the system.
00:04:53
Speaker
So it's it's ah it's a really good step and a big slap on the back for massive attack, I would say. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And as as this article mentions, there are vegan caterers from Bristol. who have benefited from Massive Attack's at plant-based festival that they hosted last year. And I don't ah don't know whether similarly in Manchester, there'll be local vegan businesses that will that will benefit from this or whether it's it's just all in-house at the Co-op Live Arena. But either way, yep.
00:05:24
Speaker
Kudos to them for the environmental bits and and great that, you know, I would assume that the vast majority of a 20 odd thousand capacity crowd would normally be consuming some animal products, you know, the time that they would be going to a gig. So the fact that they're not being allowed to that makes a small dent in itself, doesn't it? Of course, if the co-op were serious about the environment and about saving animals' lives, they wouldn't be selling animal products in any of their shops. They would make all the shops plant-based, wouldn't they?
00:05:58
Speaker
And they would stop supporting frankenchickens And then people like Chris Packham wouldn't be forced to disrupt their AGM, which he's just done. I got breaking news tonight on that one. They had to throw a load of protesters out of their AGM who were talking about franking chickens. But as purveyors of animal exploitation products, par excellence, really one concert, it's a bit of PR and all the rest of it, and it was nice of them.
00:06:24
Speaker
But there's ah awful lot more they could be doing. Co-op, if you're listening. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess it it shows actually the the power dynamic. In this instance, you've got the musicians who are saying, well, we're not going to play unless you do this.
00:06:38
Speaker
I'm assuming that that's what they've said or they were strongly hoping or hinting they'd like that. But yes. Very right to point that out, Julie.
Vegan Land Movement and Rewilding
00:06:47
Speaker
From one positive story to, I'm going to say, an even more positive one. We have featured the Vegan Land Movement a few times on this podcast. I'll put a link in the show notes to an episode where of Vegan Talk where we focused solely on them and and gave you a bit of background on them. But we found out...
00:07:04
Speaker
a few days ago that they won their eighth auction. And what does that mean, Julie? why Why are we celebrating someone winning an auction? That sounds like a random thing to feature on our show.
00:07:15
Speaker
The Vegan Land Movement is a community interest company, so it's not a charity. It was started in 2021 and it's a group of vegans. They've all got day jobs.
00:07:26
Speaker
They don't do this for a salary. They're all unpaid, all volunteers. And And they raise money and they purchase agricultural land to steal it away from the hands of animal ag people so that it can no longer be used for animal exploitation.
00:07:43
Speaker
And they're very strategic in the way they go about doing that. So they've got a particular model whereby, you know, they don't disclose the piece of land they're going after so as not to attract attention from other bidders, etc. And they've got really good at it. Their other principle is they never bid on land without being able to block shooting, hunting and culling on it. So it has to come with those rights attached.
00:08:10
Speaker
and So they're preventing these things from happening, not just agriculture, which is brilliant. They now have support all over the world and in this latest piece of land, you know, it's been a real victory for them and they have already started fundraising for buyout number nine because they had a little bit of surplus.
00:08:35
Speaker
They've now got support from all over the world. So if you are someone who really likes the principle of rewilding, but doesn't like getting involved because a lot of rewilding projects involve speciesism and culling and controlling animal populations over other animal populations. And ah some of it just isn't, you know, vegan.
00:08:57
Speaker
This really is. They rewild these species. pieces of land that they buy properly. Nothing gets interfered with or controlled or gathered in and trapped and electrodes stuck on it or rings put around its feet or anything like that.
00:09:14
Speaker
In July, They're going to go out onto this piece of land they've bought and complete a baseline species survey with the least disturbance possible. That's the way they work.
00:09:25
Speaker
And soil typography. And then they in thee will buy little trees that are right for that land. So, yeah, there you go. Give them your support. If you you're a rewilding fan who's failing like me to do no more males.
00:09:40
Speaker
This is the way to ease your conscience if you cannot let go that lawnmower. Yeah, help somewhere else do it. dude There was a guy over in, and it's somewhere just outside Dublin. He's the, think he's the 11th Earl of Dunsinia or somewhere like that. He's guy called Randall Plunkett and he's an Earl and he he inherited that title from his book. So since the 11th century, his bloodline has been in possession of this piece of land with a castle attached to it that was built to scare away the natives and all that.
00:10:15
Speaker
And this guy now, the the contemporary Earl, ah guy called Randall Plunkett, he's a vegan. He's really into making horror movies and death metal, really into veganism and rewilding. And he's giving over most of his inherited estate.
00:10:31
Speaker
to a rewilding project and there's bits and pieces of interviews with him and on the estate and talking about his project and it's really interesting and it's it's the other way of going about what the vegan land movement are doing who are coming from a grassroots and needing to raise the money but this guy actually inherited that wealth so it's But it's the same intention.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, fantastic. I feel like a matchmaker um at the moment. I'm feeling like we should we should hook up Randall Plunkett with the vegan land movement, because I reckon as well as land, he's probably got a fair bit of dosh, hasn't he? He could he could give some yeah some of his yeah some of his financial estate over to that good cause, too.
00:11:09
Speaker
Right. We're going to move now onto a story that is possibly fascinating. a concerning one or maybe it's uh we've just got our backs up and we're a bit worried it comes to us from the telegraph and it is a story suggesting that great britain could weaken their animal protection laws to get a reset to deal with brussels so this is All kind of post-Brexit stuff where individual ah agreements are being made because Britain is no longer in the EU.
Post-Brexit Animal Protection Concerns
00:11:39
Speaker
As The Telegraph reports it, they say that the last Conservative government used Brexit freedoms to ban the live export from Britain of animals, including cattle, sheep, horses and pigs, for fattening and slaughter abroad.
00:11:53
Speaker
As we've commented on the show before, it had more or less stopped at the outset of COVID, so nothing was really happening. And then was it the start of this year or was it the start of the previous year? definitely Definitely in the last couple of years, officially it got banned under the last government.
00:12:10
Speaker
But um a lot of animal rights campaigners, as well as the RSPCA, um are now saying that they fear that this ban could be sacrificed in order to get a trade-boosting animal health agreement.
00:12:24
Speaker
Some of the things that um are being concerned that might be U-turned on or not followed through would be a crackdown on puppy smuggling, as well as the this um this live export thing.
00:12:37
Speaker
It's an odd one, this, because it... I don't know how much substance there is in that we've where we've not had live exports coming out of the UK for the last five years.
00:12:49
Speaker
So I kind of almost think even if that obviously we wouldn't want the law to change, but even if it did change, surely the infrastructure is not there or um am I being complacent? As far as we know, since the BSE crisis back in the 90s, England's or the UK's ability to export meat has been severely curtailed for that reason, for other reasons. So it's for the last couple of decades, it's not really been a big thing in terms of money making because British meat was banned from Europe following the BSE discovery.
00:13:26
Speaker
back in the 90s. So yeah, I think you're right. The the the infrastructure probably isn't there. What is there is probably pretty rusty. I think this is more of the Telegraph sort of stirring up shit about the current government be b be because they aren't a Tory government.
00:13:41
Speaker
But It is ah surprising where pro-animal welfare legislation can come from because when you have the Labour Party in power in New Zealand here up until a few years ago, it was them that led the charge on banning live exports and they did do that.
00:13:55
Speaker
Now that the national right-wing, sort of Tory type of party are back in power here, they're about to resume it. It is curious the way it's almost, the a or it could be the exact opposite over in the UK where the Conservatives are banning it and Labour are perhaps bringing it back.
00:14:09
Speaker
But I don't know if they've made any noises about this. ah So i think it's just the ah the ah Telegraph scaremongering. I'm okay, in a way, with this fresh agricultural agreement, cutting bureaucracy for yeah UK exports and making it cheaper to import food, as long as...
00:14:27
Speaker
it's limited to actual food so things like vegetables and fruit and think you know avocados or whatever just not innocent beings lives let's have easier trade
Health Debate: Lacto-Vegetarians vs. Vegans
00:14:40
Speaker
as long as it is actual just produce things Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:45
Speaker
and And I mean, we'll see, won't we? we'll We'll see how it goes. But the only sort of real substance to this story at the minute seems to be that um the RSPCA have said the government has not confirmed to us that this isn't on the table.
00:15:02
Speaker
so that that could be telling or it might not but um definitely needs to be more substance to this for us to get really worried but yeah i completely agree julie animals are not food let's move on to a study now this one comes to us from food and drink technology we do love a niche publication uh they didn't do the study they're just reporting on it the journal was clinical nutrition um 30 people who followed either a lacto-vegetarian diet so that's plant foods plus dairy or a vegan diet i.e plant-based only and interestingly the results showed that people following the lacto-vegetarian diet had a lower
00:15:45
Speaker
average blood sugar level compared to those on a vegan diet. And they did adjust for age, sex, BMI, baseline glucose concentrations, yada, yada, yada.
00:15:56
Speaker
Professor Vimal Karani, who was the lead author of the research at the University of Reading, said people eating the vegan diet had more of a substance called phenylalanine.
00:16:10
Speaker
There's lots of L's and N's in it. Maybe Mark would be able to say it when I ask him about it in a minute. ah But he carried on and said, when there's too much of this substance, it might make it harder for the body to use sugar properly, as as well as pronouncing the word.
00:16:24
Speaker
um On the other hand, people having dairy had different helpful substances in their blood. Now, Mark, I like to stay balanced and impartial.
00:16:35
Speaker
I do want to point out all the horrible health things about dairy. Obviously, obviously animal rights. It's no competition, is it? But it's It's interesting to see that ah there could be a little objection that our dairy consuming friends might say, oh, I'm worried about my blood sugar. that' That's why I have dairy.
00:16:56
Speaker
I must say it's a bizarre angle. I've never heard of diabetes connected with a dairy consumption at all ever. It's a tiny control group. I mean, considering India has about a billion people there and they choose 30, right? You can fit 30 on the top deck of a double decker bus.
00:17:13
Speaker
So I'm not sure if you could call this science and any conclusion that it might or might not lead to cannot be trusted because it's such a tiny control group. I've spent quite a bit of time in India.
00:17:26
Speaker
um traveling up and down from the very south right the way up through into Nepal, into the Himalayas a few times. So i'm I'm more familiar with India than I would be a lot of European countries.
00:17:37
Speaker
And from my experience there, right and they they're really keen on sweets and there's stalls everywhere in the streets selling highly processed products.
00:17:47
Speaker
So sugary sweet. and i mean, ah I have a sweet tooth. I love sweets. And when I tried one of these ones when when I arrived first in India, it was one little small sort of ah top your thumb size chewy was so sweetie that that that it kept me going for for the day. my my sweet palate was satiated for for a day. It was just overpowering sweet. So I throw the suggestion out there that and if India has the second highest rate of diabetes globally, it's because of stuff like that.
00:18:19
Speaker
yeah It's a very, very hot country. It's hard to do exercise in an environment like that. Sweets are everywhere. Dairy consumption is also everywhere. There is a fallacy that India is pro animal welfare ah society.
00:18:35
Speaker
It's not really. and their sort of Their reverence around cows has nothing to do with the cow. It's do with what magical powers they invest in their mind into the cow.
00:18:46
Speaker
When a cow has been squeezed dry of all its milk, it is simply let loose out onto the streets where they wander around. and half starved eating plastic from the streets.
00:18:57
Speaker
they They aren't taken care of and they're sold on to people who are Muslim who don't have the religious barrier around eating cows. They aren't really respected as cows as such. So it it is a vegetarian society but it is certainly not a vegan society. There's a product called ghee which is a melted butter in almost everything and they really revere dairy. So this study is is bizarre. It's not to be trusted. and as i say I would lay the blame India's massive consumption of ultra-sugary sweets rather than going vegan.
00:19:30
Speaker
It's bizarre thing to make. Yeah, and just looking into it, I don't want dwell too much longer on the science of it, but just to say the diets concerned for these 30 people were exactly the same, except the dairy folk had yoghurt and cheese, whilst the plant-based folk had soy milk and tofu.
00:19:50
Speaker
Well, I mean, that they're not the only plant-based equivalents you could have. You know, you don't have to eat soy milk and tofu if they've got too much phenylenolene. Then have something else, you know. And and the bottom line is you've you've touched on animal rights there, Mark.
00:20:06
Speaker
That's what we're talking about. If we're talking about small amounts of blood sugar difference, you know, in order to, quote, get that right, you have to do those horrific things to a cow. I can't look at myself in the mirror.
00:20:18
Speaker
if if that's the decision I'm making and that's why I'm vegan. So put it in perspective, I think. It's phenylalanine. They're ah saying that there's if you're vegan, you have a higher rate of phenylalanine in your blood as opposed to the acetate, carnanine or something like that It's really going into the into the long grass and no one needs to pay attention to this at all, I think.
00:20:38
Speaker
Okay, from the sublime to the ridiculous. Going undercover and filming footage of animal agriculture is hard work. Sometimes activists need a day off too. Oh, that's why we are delighted that this next story comes to us from the great guys at Farming UK, who dish the dirt on British animal agriculture every week to save animal rights activists from having to do all the work themselves.
00:21:03
Speaker
Farming UK. Sometimes it's just easier if the trash takes itself out. Okay, bad news, I'm afraid. Iceland, the supermarket, this is not the country and not exactly renowned for being great animal lovers or ah people with and anything conscious in in the mind other than freezing food and charging round numbers for it If you go into an Iceland supermarket, it's either £2, £4, £6.
00:21:27
Speaker
They can't deal in pence. ah They have this week abandoned their 2025 cage-free commitment. a commitment becoming the first amongst major UK retailers to do so.
Animal Welfare Violations and Legal Consequences
00:21:40
Speaker
And even Farming UK are acknowledging that they're just quietly sweeping this under the rug. They they quote, ah the commitment that they made has now been quietly removed from Iceland's website, indicating a policy reversal. They had made this commitment in 2016
00:22:00
Speaker
Namely to source only cage-free whole eggs by the end of 2025. But that's no longer there. Well, they're trying to quietly remove it, Julie, but we're going to make some noise about it because not on really, is it? No, it's not.
00:22:13
Speaker
I mean, it's not a huge surprise. I don't associate Iceland with high standards of anything, particularly. Their spokesperson, when questioned, when their silence was broken, am apparently said that they were prioritising affordability over cage-free sourcing.
00:22:38
Speaker
So that's another word for selling out. Yeah. yeah Really? Absolutely. If raising hens without cages makes eggs too expensive for their target market then sell something cheaper and healthier and all the rest of it just don't sell them.
00:22:58
Speaker
I think this one would be worth if people you know could arrange themselves to do so I don't know maybe a little sticker campaign in Iceland but I don't know I don't really know who the target market is for Iceland shops.
00:23:12
Speaker
I myself have never had the time to do my shopping in one supermarket and then miss out on the frozen stuff to then go to a separate shop that might be and miles and miles away to just do the frozen bit.
00:23:29
Speaker
Do you what mean? I don't know why you would do that, really. it i mean, it seems like a long time to take anyway, from 2016 to 2025 for quite what sounds like quite a small change in their produce line.
00:23:42
Speaker
And they've failed to even do that. You know, they deserve a boycott at the very least. But if you if you are a shopper Iceland, consider boycotting them and letting them know about it.
00:23:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you've made there, Julie, in terms of like how long they've had to make this commitment. And I think that's possibly why we need to be super suspicious. of any commitments that any organization makes that is massively way off into the future because the the potential for it to be shelved and then swept under the rug and forgotten about and removed is is huge, isn't it?
00:24:16
Speaker
You know, how how are you going to keep that in your mind? its it's It's a nonsense and it's unfortunately not a surprise. So yeah, boo Iceland. Boo Iceland.
00:24:27
Speaker
And Joanna Lumley doesn't love you any at all. Joanna Lumley's been talking about it. She says that the the absolute epitome, the image of horridness in factory farming is a hen in a cage.
00:24:40
Speaker
I can think of worse images, but good honour for speaking out. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And on to another boo story now, um though good that good that the people doing wrong have been brought into the spotlight. A pair of smallholders who failed to provide the most basic care have been banned from keeping farm animals for five years in order to pay more than £11.
00:25:05
Speaker
thousand pounds of featuring this one i chose it simply because you get a lot of i suppose it's is it humane washing or wholesome washing people saying oh small holdings aren't they lovely oh isn't it nice they've got the right idea well not always small business doesn't mean good business small holding doesn't necessarily mean any better than giant mega farm they can both be horrid ah The individuals, Paul Ford and Rebecca Austin, um they pleaded guilty at Plymouth Magistrates Court. It's down in Truro, their small holding. And basically, they've ignored a load of advice, failed to address warnings that they've been given. And it just sounds horrific, Mark.
00:25:48
Speaker
ah You have to question why folk like this are wanting to, quote, keep animals if they can't even do the basic things. Yeah, it is strange that they clearly were were us sort of sort of going for the the sort of hippie, small scale approach, but it clearly didn't work and they were ignoring advice and there there was pigs, or i'm going to quote here, they were wandering around, pigs were wandering around but there was scrap metal old machinery and live electrical wires i've lived in flats and numeric that sound like that but there there are wasn't any pigs there but the standout point of this is that the uh the state still doesn't clamp down
00:26:26
Speaker
in any way hard enough on animal abuse and it's it's a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket here. ah One was ordered to pay a fine of £778 and seventy eight pounds in a search ah surcharge the council's legal costs.
00:26:39
Speaker
then had had to come contribute eight thousand pounds towards the ka's legal cost so The legal profession, lawyers, their fees are more of a deterrent than the state's laws are currently when when it comes to animal welfare.
00:26:54
Speaker
and this And this situation wouldn't stand if it was in relation to, say, child abuse. or robbing a bank or something where the the the state's punishment pales in comparison to the to the lawyer's fees.
00:27:08
Speaker
it's ah So that's a ridiculous situation. It is good that it was highlighted and that these people people people are being punished, but it's not really a deterrent ah other than the lawyer's fees. But the fines themselves are timely.
00:27:23
Speaker
I would say it's about time that the whole animal welfare legislation was updated to include stiff and prison penalties for for people like this, because that's the only thing that will deter them. up Well, I think as you've pointed out before, Mark, generally speaking, exposures of...
00:27:41
Speaker
really poor standards in animal husbandry or whatever you want to call it. like quote I can't call it looking after animals, but having animals on your property. It is generally private individuals or all campaigners who are bringing these things to people's notice. And if actually the main cost, sort of 90% of the cost is legal costs, then actually for ah an individual campaigner to bring that to to court or whatever,
00:28:07
Speaker
that the legal fees bit is going to be a deterrent to activists bringing that, isn't it? Because they're going to think, well, if I lose the case, then I've got to pay those legal fees. So, the yeah, that that the fact is that the fines or the penalties for doing wrong in themselves, separate from legal fees, have have got to be the deterrent, haven't they? Or just, I don't know, common decency, just don't be a dick, you know, that that of that was some sort of... morality code that might that might help my name anyway those first six stories have been those that i have asked mark and julie to have a look at this week but after this short break we're going to hear their picks of the week
00:29:02
Speaker
Well, and just to give the background, Cranswick PLC, you've probably heard about them because they are a huge British owned food company and they own a lot of of these mega farms, you know, gigantic factory farms.
00:29:21
Speaker
in the uk so principally with little pigs and chickens in them so um yeah they are everywhere they're very controversial and but they are an enormous company reporting profits in one year of 176 million so massive
00:29:40
Speaker
million so massive Anyway, they have one particular farm in Lincolnshire called Northmoor Farm, which has made the headlines recently. It's part of the Red Tractor Scheme, which as we know means absolutely nothing in terms of the standards of the care and inverted commas given to the animals abused on these farms.
00:30:06
Speaker
sites so this is a breeding farm it has up to 6 000 pigs in its sheds at any one time and over the last year and my heart goes out to this person there has been one solitary undercover investigator sent there by the animal justice project and i cannot imagine how awful that must be bad enough to do it in pairs where at least you've got each other you know to talk to but Yeah, there's just been one.
00:30:37
Speaker
So this undercover investigation has shown the footage has been released and it shows two things.
00:30:48
Speaker
and So it shows... massive violence that people could say perhaps is a bit of a aberration or a one-off or whatever things for example like what is called piglet thumping where little piglets who are not thriving who are not commercially you know of the right weight to be profitable are killed And they are killed the cheapest, quickest way possible, which is to pick them up by the back legs and smash their skulls against the concrete floor rather than, you know, take them to an abattoir, do anything that costs money. And it's ah and it's illegal in the UK, obviously.
00:31:32
Speaker
But that's been happening. So it's sort of big stuff. And and Sow's been absolutely battered with tools, bashed across the head and all the rest of it. So there's been acts of extreme violence recorded.
00:31:46
Speaker
But on top of that... There are farrowing crates which aren't yet illegal but are completely frowned upon and limit the movement of the mother pig enormously so that her life is just confined to not being able to care for her piglets and just lying on concrete.
00:32:06
Speaker
Their tails routinely getting cut off without pain relief, their teeth getting ground down, just practices that are disgusting and abusive and just forcing animals to live in the most punitive and unnatural conditions you can imagine.
00:32:24
Speaker
I have seen the footage, some of it, there's probably lots of it, but I've seen quite a lot of the footage that was taken by the undercover investigator and it really is gut-wrenching. It's good it's come to light.
00:32:38
Speaker
The Cranswick PLC, I mean it's frightening to think they have over 900,000 pigs and piglets on their farms. you know across the UK so this could be happening to that number of pigs and piglets so they are trying to look good aren't they mean honestly a I would like to say here as well this is not the first time they've been outed it absolutely isn't this has happened before they have been exposed before it hasn't shut them down it hasn't even cost them too much money by the looks of things given the profits are still making
00:33:15
Speaker
is There are some headlines coming out now about their share prices dropping and, you know, them losing some quotes of being 250 million. I don't know.
00:33:27
Speaker
and Compared to what their profits are, I don't know if even that's going to do much. So they're trying to look good on the back of this and they're doing what any of us would do when we're caught doing something we shouldn't.
00:33:39
Speaker
You know, they're sort of, ah you know, expressing surprise, which I'm sure it's not, and and shock at the whole, oh, oh, well, we're taking immediate action because this isn't good enough and we better to do something about this.
00:33:53
Speaker
So... They're trying to look good by saying that they have shut down operations and are refusing to supply any more of their suppliers, who are, by the way, things like Tesco, Morrisons and Sainsbury's.
00:34:11
Speaker
Now, that's a freaking lie because actually it's the other way round. These supermarkets have now put a ban on... being supplied by them. It's that way round. So again, like I say, they're trying to look good and they're also trying to look good by saying that they have launched this immediate investigation.
00:34:33
Speaker
Well, do you know something? They might be looking into it. I'm not saying they're not, but I am going to put my money that the biggest part of their investigation will be how did the freaking vegan get in and how can we stop that happening they will be looking at their security measures they'll be wondering how they can stop all this coming out i think so what can you do about it because i don't want to give you bad news and say you know what mean i I can't do anything and about this, Julie. Don't just give me bad news. You can go on the Animal Justice Project website.
00:35:07
Speaker
You can sign their permit petition to urge to the government to urgently, you know, look into this whole matter and ban the piglet thumping business at the very least.
00:35:18
Speaker
You can order some leaflets from the Animal Justice Project website to give to people to educate them about these issues. You can tell your meat-eating friends the price of the cheapo meat.
00:35:34
Speaker
and the expensive meat that they are buying, the actual price of it, not the price label, but the price of it and what they're funding when they buy it. And just spread the word so that these animals, they're suffering and they're dying, is not in vain.
00:35:50
Speaker
So when it comes to supermarkets like Iceland, like in the last story, where where they make a commitment... to phase out ah battery eggs and then when no one's looking or when the issue has died away, at least as far as they're concerned, they'll turn their backs on that because it's all about profit.
00:36:05
Speaker
And the initial promise was greenwashing in the first place. The flip side of that is that when supermarkets do um publicly claim to have their own welfare standards,
00:36:18
Speaker
even if they aren't serious about it and they're willing to flex and bend and renege on them over time, if they're still in place and stuff like this comes to the fore, that then they have painted themselves into a corner where they have to root react in this way and say, oh, no, we're we're ah we're wherere i'm not going to get our supplies of meat from this place anymore because it doesn't correspond with our bullshit, but written down welfare claims.
00:36:44
Speaker
So Even when a corporation or a big supermarket is being disingenuous in its supposed care for the welfare of the animals that they sell, and they can be forced into doing doing something positive, like essentially boycotting this particular company because they have made this sort of public declaration. So it isn't always useless when these people try and greenwash.
00:37:09
Speaker
there is it It does sort of allow the animal rights community and leverage than to come back at them when stuff like this is exposed. Yeah, I've got um two points that I'd like to make under and a question that I don't think we can answer, but it's it's one to ponder. One point is that every time there is an undercover investigation going on in a farm,
00:37:33
Speaker
you're asking somebody to who cares about animal welfare and animal well-being to put themselves in a horrific position. I can't imagine that organisations would do that unless they thought there was something you could find out.
00:37:48
Speaker
And I'm going to put it to our listeners that actually any farm, if you got someone in there undercover, you would expose this stuff. I don't think this is a bad apple.
00:38:00
Speaker
You know, it it it just wouldn't work like that. The Animal Justice Project wouldn't, I don't think, risk the trauma that this undercover person ah is is subjecting themselves to.
00:38:13
Speaker
unless there was something to show. and And kudos to them for for doing that. like I think that's remarkable. The other thing that I wanted to say was about supermarkets and and in this um story that that you can follow the link for in the in the show notes, so all the supermarkets are saying, oh, this this doesn't fit our standards. There's no place for cruel treatment of animals in our supply chain, blah, blah.
00:38:37
Speaker
Bollocks. Bollocks. You all pay people to kill children. That's what you're doing at your farms. You all support infanticide. like that don't You don't get to say that that there's no place for cruelty in your supply chain.
00:38:54
Speaker
That is just a lie. My question is, in instances like this, these supermarkets are no longer getting their meat off. their pig flesh from Cranswick.
00:39:06
Speaker
So presumably they're going to a different farm and asking them to produce more No, no, i just want there no they're not. I think that investigation won't take very long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't think there'll be a big interruption in the, do you know what I mean? they've They've all got freezers. It probably won't change very much. That investigation, deal they'll do a day or something. It won't really, you know, they might have to chuck away some meat or something.
00:39:35
Speaker
i don't think it'll make much difference. The other thing to say as well, just if you want to feel kind of that we are not the only ones appalled by this, there's a really nice interview a with George Monbiot and Dr Alice Brough, the former pig industry vet who's become a kind of animal rights campaigner, celeb person.
00:39:59
Speaker
There's a lovely interview. Well, it's not lovely because you see the footage in some of it. But there's a really nice interview between them, which is doing the rounds as well, which it's really nice just to have somebody like George Monbiot articulating which we all all the things that we feel in response to footage like that, just because he's so good with words and he's such a good spokesperson for the animals these days. He never was always, used to be a bit plant based, but he's gone really nicely vegan. So shout out to him. Yeah, yeah. No, thank you for that, Julie. I think, I guess my my point was that I don't think the disruption here is necessarily reducing the number of animals that are being killed at all. I think it's it's creating footage that will hopefully create more vegans in the long run.
00:40:45
Speaker
It's disrupting industries, like any disruption to the wheels of commerce here and the wheels of ah slaughter is is a good disruption. But I wouldn't want us to kind of kid ourselves that it's resulting in fewer animals dying, because I don't think it is.
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, I do wonder if if the police ah ever pulled their finger out and did their job, and instead of sending in undercover operatives to spy on the animal rights community, they sent them into places like this to spy on these sort of people,
00:41:12
Speaker
Would they be doing the same things as they did to the young rice community and be having sex with farmers and marrying farmers and having kids with farmers and going native and so on? I wonder if it would be the same sort of fallout as sort of what what what happened with with the whole Spy Cops thing.
00:41:28
Speaker
the There is a really good podcast called Spy Cops that is following the the whole story. investigation by the state into all of this. There is another word for that. I can't remember what it right now.
00:41:40
Speaker
and it's And it's fascinating. And they've been talking about Matt Rayner and the guy that infiltrated the Hunsabs in the 90s as well recently. So it is it is a fascinating ah thing to to hear about if you aren't aware of it are already. Yeah and indeed we're covering similar this summer. We've got a few special episodes focusing on stuff like that for you to look forward to. Well thank you for bringing that one up for us Julie and incredible work from the Animal Justice Project and this solitary undercover worker that's so brought all that to light.
00:42:12
Speaker
Kudos to you. Okay, Mark, your pick for the week, we kind of saw coming. We reported a few months ago that this was possibly in the offing.
00:42:22
Speaker
And unfortunately, it's a story that has not gone the way. that we would like in the European Parliament, is it? No, indeed. So the European Parliament last Thursday voted to downgrade the protection status of wolves under the EU Habitats Directive.
Wildlife Management and Legal Battles
00:42:37
Speaker
So they're changing their the classification of wolves from strictly protected to simply protected, which gives EU countries more flexibility to manage, i.e. kill,
00:42:48
Speaker
growing wolf populations, governments will will be allowed to kill the animals in certain cases. So 371 members of the European Parliament, MEPs, voted in favour of this bill, 162 against, with 37 abstaining.
00:43:03
Speaker
Supporters of the move, such as MEP Herbert Duffman, argue that the change is necessary to address rising conflicts between wolves and farmers. Europe's wolf population has grown in recent years, reaching over 20,000 animals in 2023.
00:43:19
Speaker
In contrast, the human population in the European Union reached more than 449 million the same year. So this is this is the inevitable and clash between farmers, specifically animal farmers and the rest of nature or nature generally.
00:43:38
Speaker
And it was it was inevitable and ah the the wolves aren't the problem here. The farmers are the problem. but When I first heard about wolves being ah released into the into the wild, I think they've been talking about it doing in Scotland for years.
00:43:51
Speaker
It's happening now in France and Spain and Germany and so on. and My first thoughts turn to what if you're out hiking? ah in in the woods on your own or just with the with one other person and you come across a pack of wolves you know at night time or something.
00:44:07
Speaker
And I thought the the threat would be there. and There isn't any mention of that anywhere. The the the complaints are ah singularly coming coming from animal agriculture farmers here.
00:44:19
Speaker
So it just proves that that animal agriculture cannot coexist with actual nature so this town isn't big enough for both of us, basically. It never has been. And the more we try and rewild and regenerate nature, the more inevitably it comes into conflict with these parasites in the animal agricultural community. because they cannot exist on a planet that that doesn't prioritize them.
00:44:43
Speaker
I was going on a road trip a few years back with a friend of mine who was over from Europe, and we were we were driving around this beautiful place called New Zealand, and he was completely stunned by the nature, by the forests and the rolling hills, and it's like nature and steroids. It never stops going up and down. There's hardly any flat hills or anything. It's just so... and beautiful.
00:45:03
Speaker
But at one point we ah stopped and and we were having a bit of a break and he was looking out over the landscape and he was saying, this is this is nature at its finest. And I said to him, Mike, what you actually... He was actually looking out over an intensively farmed region.
00:45:19
Speaker
and I was pointing out to him look, what what you are seeing here is an absence of nature, not nature itself. it says This is nature stripped raw of, it should be covered in trees. We shouldn't be able to see the ground here for miles and miles and miles ahead of us.
00:45:33
Speaker
It should be just covered in nature. If you leave nature alone, it will re regenerate within a couple of years. This place has been stripped of nature so that you have ah monoculture down to its finest. So you have one species of grass growing in 99% of the landscape that you can see that hosts one species of animal, and that's the cow.
00:45:55
Speaker
And everything else has been shot, poisoned, gassed, scared away, and eliminated. so People look out on these landscapes and it's like looking at and a photograph from the Battle of the Somme and thinking that that is what a forest looks like.
00:46:11
Speaker
It's not. it's it's it's It's the absence of a forest. aid It's it's an intensively humanized sort of area. So I've sort of gone off on a bit of a tangent here, but basically um animal agriculture proves again and again and again that ah it cannot coexist satisfactorily within nature because it isn't natural at all. Farming is completely unnatural and this proves it again.
00:46:33
Speaker
So whilst farmers bang on about nature and being sort of the the husbands of nature all that, they actually despise nature when it threatens their profits and that's all the time and they have to control and eliminate nature in order to survive.
00:46:46
Speaker
So I say, bring on the wolves. Bring on the wolves. Absolutely. Julie, we've ah we've we've spoken several times before ah about the, not the perils of rewilding, but the kind of attitude behind it that that's that's really quite short-sighted and and things like this, ah quite an inevitability. um I was quite interested and towards the bottom of this article from from the Animal Reader, where somebody from the European Institute for Animal Law and Policy, it um questioned how quickly this was done. And they were pointing out that normally EU policymakers, everyone's perspective is weighed up really carefully, making sure that, you know, equality is there in the decision making process. But when it comes to animals, that that same privilege is is not extended. It's
00:47:37
Speaker
It's not surprising that there's that speciesism, is there? But it's is really disheartening how quickly that those poor wolves, their needs are just dismissed. Yep, absolutely.
00:47:48
Speaker
i knew and i don't know why the speed of the legislative process you know can be so different just because we're talking about animals as opposed to humans.
00:48:00
Speaker
Because it just shows you things can move quickly when when the well is there, can't it? Yeah. Absolutely. thats I mean, the the the article that that you've um commented on there, um Mark, it it cites lots of different environmental organisations. You've got um the World Wildlife Fund, EU, BirdLife Europe, but like there's there's lots of organisations that can rally against these things. And I just suppose we have to hope that the more the more voices that can oppose things like this, the the slower those wheels can turn and um and things can be disrupted. Yeah.
00:48:33
Speaker
Not a nice story. Thank you for that one, Mark. We have now covered eight stories. We've given our opinions on them, but we love hearing what are you out there listening have to say about these things too. Or maybe you haven't liked or you have particularly agreed with something we have said. Either way, we love hearing from you and here is how to do so.
00:48:53
Speaker
To get in touch with us, just send us an email at enoughofthefalafel at gmail.com. We see ourselves as a collective. Our listenership stretches all around the world and everyone's opinions, questions, feedback and ideas are what helps shape the show.
00:49:12
Speaker
Go on, send us a message today. enough of the falafel at gmail dot com Now we've got time for just one more story. And if you were feeling a bit downbeat after hearing about the protection status of wolves in the EU being downgraded, we've got a reward for sticking with us because we've got a flip side story from Italy where a cull of nearly 500 deer in over 140 fawns, it's been scrapped.
00:49:40
Speaker
including ah over a hundred and forty fourns it's been scrap So it's not all doom and gloom. Sometimes these, quote, management plans don't come off. And this has happened in Italy. The story actually began last August.
00:49:55
Speaker
The Regional Council of Abruzzo approved a resolution authorising the killing of 469 deers as part of, quote, population control efforts. Note the euphemisms. There's always euphemisms in these things, there? They can't actually say, we're going to kill a load of animals.
00:50:11
Speaker
They have to dress it up. Understandably, the plan sparked outrage amongst environmental and animal welfare associations who took the matter to court. And I'm going to rely a little bit on Mark and Julie's help to understand quite how this worked. I'm going to report it as I've got it here and see if they can understand it better than I could.
00:50:29
Speaker
So there was initial setback because the regional administrative court was refused to suspend this measure, so they they just let it carry on. However, the campaigners didn't back down.
00:50:40
Speaker
They quickly appealed to the Council of State, which is Italy's highest administrative court, who overturned the earlier ruling and sent the case back for a new hearing.
00:50:51
Speaker
And then, in the last week, this long-awaited hearing, the regional administrative court officially closed the case, saying something to the effect of it had ran out of time or it was no longer...
00:51:02
Speaker
valid anyway so it didn't apply and they said there was no longer a legal issue to resolve since the resolution was no longer valid. um So hooray for the deer and hooray for everyone campaigning for it. Speaking after the hearing there was an explanation as to how they themselves had asked the court to acknowledge the case was now moot but they insisted that the legal fight had not been in vain.
00:51:25
Speaker
They said, this is exactly what we anticipated months ago when the hearing was scheduled. Still, our efforts paid off. The deer are safe. So, Julie, Mark, can you quite understand what's happened there? I mean, the bottom line is, those deer are safe. They haven't been culled.
00:51:41
Speaker
Was it just that time ran out or what's what's the deal? Well, I think in the the ruling was questioned and the there's only a certain period in the year when that culling can be carried out.
00:51:55
Speaker
So while they were all going through their legal processes, that season ran its course. But what I'm not sure is, is this a stay execution? Because they haven't said that the cull is invalid, it will never happen.
00:52:10
Speaker
All they've said is we can't legally kill these animals because it's out of season. Because there are, in some legislation, sometimes there's a time of year when animals can be culled and a time of year when they cannot.
00:52:23
Speaker
So as we know from the story with the gamekeepers who didn't want to be shooting deer in Scotland when they were going to be pregnant. So they have no problem shooting deer when they've got little babies that have been born with them, you know, but they don't want to shoot pregnant deer.
00:52:40
Speaker
and But as we know, there was more to that than meets the eye. So I think this is a similar thing. There must be a window of opportunity, two windows of opportunity here. There's the usually grindingly slow legal process and there's the hunting season.
00:52:55
Speaker
And while they were debating, the hunting season's run out. That's my understanding. I don't know what happens next year, though. Well, that's the question, isn't isn't it? That's the question. I guess we have to just hold fire and and see whether this one rears its head again. I mean, Mark, following our last story about the wolves, it is quite nice to read an alternative where you have got, you know, local tourism companies saying, hey, come to this region. Like the the the urban deer population is a key attraction. People have rallied against this order to kill the animals. And it's happened, you know, that it's It's been stopped. Like that's refreshing. It is good. um I know that in in Italy and France, particularly hunting is huge, particularly hunting deer.
00:53:40
Speaker
I don't know what the statistics are for Italy, but when I was writing my book, I went into a deep dive into the situation in France. And i want you to have a guess. How many people have been, how many people,
00:53:52
Speaker
have been shot dead by hunters in france since 2000 do you think in the last 25 years how many eight by accident uh how many people have been not just injured but shot dead by french guys going out with with guns and and mistaking people for uh deer have have you guess i i know that this is a phenomenon um so i'm not surprised to hear you saying this but you you'd you'd think it would just be one or two otherwise there would be outrage but it's clearly more than that or you wouldn't be asking it's more than that uh julie would you would you like to have the guess it's more than 30 i'm going for 30 okay so in the last 25 years in fact when i was doing the research it was 23 years or 22 years
00:54:38
Speaker
since 2,400 people have been shaped by hunters by accident. No prosecutions ever, but people out sunbathing, ah cycling, walking down a road,
00:54:54
Speaker
hanging out the washing, sitting indoors watching TV. So it's it's mainly other hunters. So these guys, they're half pissed and they're wandering around the forest all in camouflage. The camouflage is getting better and better and better.
00:55:08
Speaker
And they're really hard to see. And there's a sudden movement and a guy turns around and shots, bang, 400 people dead, 3000 people injured, many severely It's quite an issue over France.
00:55:21
Speaker
I don't know if the French are particularly bad shots. I mean, if World War Two is anything to go by, the Italians are pretty bad shots. but It might be even higher over in Italy. I'm not sure if there's even stats available.
00:55:33
Speaker
But that is a shocker. More people by a long shot have been killed by hunters in France than by ISIS in France. Golly, that that's awful, isn't it? i mean, and interestingly, just in terms of attitudes towards hunting, as as you touched upon there, Mark, this article does mention a petition that was launched last year to call for a referendum aimed at abolishing hunting in Italy altogether. But apparently, um whilst getting a certain degree of public in interest, there wasn't enough signatures to meet the required threshold.
00:56:05
Speaker
I don't know whether that's 100,000 a hundred thousand um Like it is in in the UK I think it is I read that And you know what We've got time Because the nick i don't know when the next hunting season is starting But it must be a while So if Peter got onto this Perhaps Maybe we could get 100,000 signatures, you know, and if people maybe boycotted visiting those countries and said, you know, like they did with bullfighting in Spain, I remember being a wee kid and, I mean, I was only a wee kid, but signing a petition to say that I wouldn't go on holiday you in Spain while there was bullfighting and, you know, maybe some tourists could kick up and say, we're not coming on holiday to see your nice, the you know, whatever...
00:56:50
Speaker
country because you're doing this to the deer and all the rest of it so yeah or maybe if that new pope stepped in who knows the thing that got me was there was again this reference to one of my most hated phrases i wrote it down and then i drew a little emoji next to it because i just you know I couldn't words failed me wildlife management wildlife management I just you know I hate those two words going together and this thing about you know they were maintaining the balance of natural ecosystems
00:57:26
Speaker
You can't maintain something that doesn't exist in the first place. And there is nothing natural about these areas of land that we're talking about. There's nothing natural about them anymore.
00:57:37
Speaker
And who decides when it's balanced? Well, and unless you're saying that a natural ecosystem includes some bellends with rifles, like unless you're including them as part of the ecosystem, then it's not naturally doing anything.
00:57:53
Speaker
is it i've i've got a very low down the food chain anyway low down the uh brain cells chain but i i mean autumn feeders yeah I've got a theory that these rewilding management, you know, animal management, population control things.
00:58:16
Speaker
I've got a feeling that actually people's awareness of this is very, very low. And I think it's it's got away with because it's happening in quite remote parts of the country.
00:58:28
Speaker
And generally, this is generalization, generally the more rural populations are um that are in the minority numbers-wise in a country, they have less of an issue with animals being killed in this way, so that they're just letting it happen.
00:58:45
Speaker
But I think if you just took a straw poll in terms of numbers of people in the country... who would approve of this happening and who would disapprove these these kind of um mass cullings of of animals just to quite maintain the status quo or whatever.
00:59:04
Speaker
I think the majority would disapprove. And there are problems with, you know... voting for things and the larger group of people decides what is right for the smaller number of people i'm aware of that but just i i think they're getting away with it because most people don't know about it is my strong suspicion and they're also getting away with it because these little animals are timid little things that will run away you don't go after them with gun and they come back after you and try and eat you you know what i mean And also for some people in the world, when these animals are culled and hunted, they're not just, you know, left, are they? They're made into quite expensive food that a lot of people seem to enjoy. So they're they're a bit tasty as well. You're going to become a controlled species if you taste a bit nice and you're a bit timid and you run away and don't defend yourself.
00:59:55
Speaker
Absolutely. Right. Well, thank you for that one, Mark and Julie. We're at the end of our news stories. If you've enjoyed the show, I know we ask every week, but we're going to ask again.
01:00:08
Speaker
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01:00:33
Speaker
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01:00:45
Speaker
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01:01:06
Speaker
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01:01:23
Speaker
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01:01:38
Speaker
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01:02:04
Speaker
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Speaker
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