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172- Going Vegan...and then touring the world as a vegan musician
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In a bonus Going Vegan show, Paul & Ant chat to Emaline about her vegan journey, which started in Australia and has since seen her tour around the world as a fabulous musician!
To see Emaline live, vist her website https://emalinedelapaix.com/index.html where you can also support her work and get hold of your own copies of her music. There are plenty of chances to see her perform this summer, both in Germany & in the UK...and sometimes these opportunities are at Vegan Festivals; what's not to love?!
If you enjoy this episode, check your feed for the many other Going Vegan episodes that have been dropping throughout the last couple of years.
If you'd like to hear more of what we do, set up all your notifications, as we release two other weekly shows: Vegan Week- where we discuss the week's vegan/animal rights news- and Vegan Talk- where we go deeper into one subject in particular that is relevant to the vegan movement.
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Enough of the Falafel is a community of people who love keeping on top of the latest news in the world of veganism & animal rights. With our podcasts we aim to keep listeners (& ourselves) informed & up-to-date with the latest developments that affect vegans & non-human animals; giving insight, whilst staying balanced; remaining true to our vegan ethics, whilst constantly seeking to grow & develop.
To get in touch, email us via enoughofthefalafel@gmail.com.
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Thanks everyone for listening; give us a rating and drop us a message to say "hi"; it'll make our day!
Emaline, Paul & Ant
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Transcript
Introduction to the Special Episode
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to a very special episode of The Going Vegan Show. It's been a while since we've
Interview with Emmeline Delapé
00:00:07
Speaker
done one of these. Normally veganuary is our normal time of year but we managed to arrange a very special interview with Emmeline Delapé who you might have heard of um She is a vegan musician, very, very talented she is too.
00:00:23
Speaker
um And we were absolutely delighted to grab a moment to chat with her about her vegan journey as well as getting to listen to some of her music. The recording quality wasn't the absolute best.
00:00:37
Speaker
But that hopefully shouldn't get in the way of what is ah really brilliant conversation that we hope you will enjoy. But apologies, like i say, of the quality of some of the audio isn't as good as it normally is. But without much further ado, let's get straight into the episode.
Theme: Music and Veganism
00:00:53
Speaker
So today everyone we have something a little different for you. We're always looking out for new topics and interesting people to talk to and so we're very excited today to bring you a music themed vegan chat with our guest Emmeline Delapé. Hello and more warm welcome Emmeline.
00:01:09
Speaker
Hi, yeah my name's my my name's a little bit hard to say. Yes, i've I've fallen foul of this before in the past, so i'm I'm kind of conscious on that. So yeah, thanks very much for taking the time to be with us.
00:01:21
Speaker
So I thought it would be useful just to start off with to give our listeners just a little bit of a flavour of what you do before we dive into some questions about your vegan journey.
Emmeline's Musical Journey and Inspirations
00:01:31
Speaker
So looking at your website, which I'm sure we'll add into the show notes, this talks about you being singer-songwriter-musician,
00:01:39
Speaker
who creates ethereal, haunting chamber folk and gentle art pop songs on acoustic guitar, piano, Celtic harp and other bowed instruments. He also plays a handful of Nordic and Western European traditional songs exploring your ancestry.
00:01:55
Speaker
You're self-taught singer who found your own voice and a way to deal with emotions while growing up in a violent home, dealing with teenage homelessness and trauma, listening to many groundbreaking female artists such as Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Nina Simone, Heather Nova and Bjork.
00:02:13
Speaker
You've got a clear and haunting voice which spans several octaves, switching between gentle lullabies and siren songs with ease and authenticity, often moving audience members to tears in a good way.
00:02:25
Speaker
And I can vouch for that because I've ah listened to Emmeline's music and Sin Alive and yes, very, very emotional listening to to that. So as we alluded to, today is going to be fairly similar to hopefully most of our listeners are familiar with, which is a sort of going vegan type of podcast where we speak to individuals about their vegan journey.
00:02:44
Speaker
But obviously with Emmeline, we will have the added loveliness of some beautiful music being interspersed between our chats. That'll be different for us.
Early Life and Realization of Veganism
00:02:52
Speaker
So if I can start off, Emmeline, by asking, what were the first signs that one day you might avoid animal use in your life? And how far back would we track that back in your own story? i mean, I've always loved animals and everyone says they love animals, right? but Yeah.
00:03:08
Speaker
is it Yeah, but i but I really loved animals. Like, I always preferred to be with animals, and if I'd go somewhere with my parents and those animals, I'd leave and go with the animals. and um And that still happens now. If I go to someone's house, I'm like, where are they animals? um But um we had had like we lived in a rural area in in ah Australia, and we had, like, lots of animals. It wasn't a farm. My mom had horses.
00:03:32
Speaker
I grew up with lot horses. And we had chickens and I used to name all the chickens and I'd hold them and pet them and got to know their personalities and my mum would kill them to eat, right?
00:03:43
Speaker
and um And then I would cry and I'd be really, really sad. And and that that's the kind of earliest memory I have and not wanting to hurt animals. And then um my mum used to go hunting rabbits.
00:03:55
Speaker
So this is this is where I come from in Australia. She'd hunt rabbits and she'd bring them home and put the food on the table and I'd refuse to eat it. I'd absolutely refuse to eat the rabbit. And she took me fishing also and I didn't like that.
00:04:07
Speaker
And then used to throw the bits of meat into the pot plants to try to hide it because she'd make me sit it. My mum's really strict and I'd have to sit there until I ate my food so I'd hide it.
00:04:18
Speaker
And it was always the meat. mostly the meat that I'd hide in these big pot plants. And so that that's kind of my my earliest memory. And then when I became a teenager, and as I said, I was homeless, and then I was on my own for a while. said a lot about stuff, and just, yeah, and I started to feel very guilty when I would eat meat. But I didn't really understand what that was, you know, coming from such an Australia's a really big, or it was.
00:04:42
Speaker
a big agricultural place and a lot of meat. It's a really big thing growing up there. And so i didn't really I didn't really understand what it was. i was just like, oh, I don't like this, so I'm going to push it down. going to push it down and not think about it.
00:04:54
Speaker
And that was kind of it, you know. That's kind of how it started. But I noticed that really when I was like maybe 17, 18, 19, around that time when I'd left home and started to really feel guilty but didn't know how to deal with it.
00:05:07
Speaker
And there wasn't much information about veganism or even vegetarianism. that And so I just said, I'm not going to think about that, which was like how I lived my life anyway for a long time. I'm not going to think about that. you know yeah so that Can I ask, Emmeline, ah it's it sounds to me like a typical and environment in that those around you or the culture around you is not necessarily mirroring how you're feeling.
00:05:33
Speaker
about these things would would that be fair to say like what what what were people's responses to to how you were feeling and how you were presenting with regards to these things yeah no 100% we I grew up with we had a barbecue every Sunday with lots of meat lots of seafood um we had meat with every meal was always that meat to to veg kind of thing and it was just meat meat meat every when I think back so much meat and then also with my mother going hunting And um it was just normal. It was considered really normal.
00:06:04
Speaker
And in general, the reason why i left Australia was because you had to be normal. It felt like in every way, you know, like with but my sexuality also wasn't, was quite fluid and and my becoming vegetarian, eventually like everything was sort of going towards being a more...
00:06:19
Speaker
alternative thinking person but I grew up in a place that was like no you have to be normal and do everything normal and don't think outside the box it was a and eventually i had a breakdown because of like certain things but yeah definitely just uh and and also making fun of you if you had different thoughts like I'd say oh but I don't want to hurt animals oh but it's just normal that's just the way it is it's always been like that and you know we we we need them to survive And then I'd sort of like, oh, okay, you know, ah wasn't strong enough to, at that time, to sort of go further. So it was like, I'll just push it down. You've mentioned being vegetarian.
00:06:53
Speaker
We can hear there, like, some some core beliefs and kind of worldview things there that that you've had. that So we can imagine how you might sort of decide to become vegetarian and and later vegan.
00:07:05
Speaker
But how did it play out in reality, see like, in a practical sense? Was there, like, one thing that specifically... triggered that or how did that come about? Yes, very, very strong. i was on i was on tour in the US, I was 24, maybe I was 24, something like that.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I was in Ithaca, New York, which is an extremely alternative. they have like i think they had the first vegan buffalo wings or something. they It's extremely alternative. And I was in the Ithaca Co-op, um which is not the co-op we have here. It's like basically that's owned by all the people.
00:07:40
Speaker
And I saw a flyer and it was about cows and it was pictures of cows like with damaged legs sort of. And they were explaining that, you know, this is how cows are treated. Their children are stolen. They're left in agony, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc.
00:07:55
Speaker
And something... Maybe because I was outside of Australia. It was my first time going on tour. i was young. i was with my all-female band and we were all a bit mad and alternative. And I felt like I didn't have the judgment around me.
00:08:09
Speaker
And something just clicked. And I'll never forget that moment of just sitting there, I don't want to eat meat anymore. It didn't go vegan straight away, but I was like, I am not going to eat meat anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. And something about being in the right environment like and away from that like conservative, closed-mindedness, I was like, yep, it's just that's how it's going to be. And that was just normal. you know and And so, yeah, that was it was it. And I stopped eating meat and but like straight away.
00:08:35
Speaker
No problems. whatsoever it it sounds like there's been like ah a bit of fearlessness there that's that's come along like there's been something that's been been stopping you that kind of normalization that don't step outside the box and then in a different environment there's that that's been removed or that that environment has has changed yeah were there nonetheless some some worries some trepidation some some fears there about doing something that different or or not Yeah, I guess it was more my grandparents more than anything. You know, my mom actually, my mom actually, I didn't live, she lived like a few hours and she was quite alternative and shes she was fine with it.
00:09:17
Speaker
She was fine with everything I ever did um later on. But yeah, it was more my grandparents. But even then, I think my my aunt was on a Weight Watchers diet at the time, I remember, and they were eating a lot of like vegetarian meals. So actually, it kind of was okay.
00:09:33
Speaker
I think the, no, not eating meat. I think the vegan was like, that that was like really crazy for them. but But yeah, definitely the men in my life, I think were more judgmental, I would say. Male relatives, they were the ones that were like, you know, making jokes.
00:09:47
Speaker
The women, not as bad. They were sort of like, well, why would you do this? And then I'd explain it and they'd say, oh, I can understand little bit more. You know, it wasn't such a, they didn't make fun of me or anything, but it was the the men in the family who just thought it was a bit weird.
00:09:59
Speaker
So I imagine ah lot of that was in the first sort of early weeks of maybe making the switch. Was there any other memories you've got of those first few weeks going vegan, whether they're sort of positive or negative? Do you recall any of those at all?
00:10:14
Speaker
Yeah,
Transition to Veganism and Personal Growth
00:10:15
Speaker
going vegan. I went vegan in 2010, so it took me a while. And I was already pretty, I was really close to vegan. I think there was like most things had been taken out and i don't know why it took so long. I think it was being with a partner I was with as well who wasn't quite ready to go the whole hog. think I shouldn't say that the whole hog.
00:10:34
Speaker
But when i once I left my partner, then i was like, right, this is, you know, I want i'm myself again. you know, i felt like, yeah, no, I don't think so because I actually went vegan after I had a mental breakdown.
00:10:46
Speaker
So I was like nothing. I don't care what anyone thinks now. I've had a mental breakdown. I've been the most unwell I'm ever going to be and I'm going to do what I need to do to be well and healthy. and um in every way and so I wasn't bothered really but at that point I was like no no one bothered me at all because I was sort of in that a really good place to do that but I didn't stay vegan completely unfortunately so I can explain that to you if you want to explain yeah yeah go for it yeah so I should say by the way both Anthony and I didn't go vegan quickly ourselves it was a slow journey for both of us you're in you're in sort of similar companies so Yeah, so I was, um I went to, that's a long story, but I went to, um I didn't play any instruments until 2010.
00:11:26
Speaker
look two thousand and ten I was too scared. But I could play them, but not in front of people. So I went on tour to the US and Canada. And um I did this trip with another friend. And we went, we traveled by Greyhound bus.
00:11:38
Speaker
Now, I didn't realize how hard it would be to get vegan food. It was like September 2010. two thousand and ten And you'd stop and like, you know, these were long haul bus trips. So you'd stay on for like two days. And, um, and I just, there was nothing to eat.
00:11:51
Speaker
And so I was completely underprepared, uneducated. And I ended up eating cheese. I think that was like, I didn't know what i I just didn't have anything with me. I just wasn't mature enough or like, I don't know. And even back then, even then it was quite hard in some places to get things, even in the supermarkets in the U S especially in the South. I mean, in the South here.
00:12:09
Speaker
And so I did go off the bandwagon for a little, for about three or four months. And then I went back on, I was like, no, no, I can't. I went back. moved to Germany and I said I can't do this I can't you know that guilt and that i was like no i have to make this work and uh and so then I kind of went back and then that was it early early 2011 and then completely since you know I don't think it's an unfamiliar sort of journey is it and I think with many people we spoke to like said it's been slow journey people have fallen off the wagon a bit or whatever of or made mistakes it's its pretty pretty yeah pretty common isn't it I think Well, yeah, and I think it's obviously all relative to the position that you're in at the time um and your lifestyle and and and all manner of other factors too. and it from what it's sounding like, Emmeline, like your you know you're on the road, you're you're traveling.
00:12:58
Speaker
And actually, you know, North America in 2010 is a very different place to try and try. to to to try and be completely vegan than, you know, what I'm recording from the UK right now in 2025. It's just practically, it's different, let alone anything kind of emotional or spiritual or or whatever, you know. And the South is completely different. You know, like your your Pacific Northwest, yes, you could be vegan there.
00:13:24
Speaker
But going down South to like Tennessee and like New Mexico, you know, like tiny, you're stopping in a tiny... I just was stupid. I didn't, I wasn't prepared. So...
Challenges of Being a Traveling Vegan
00:13:34
Speaker
When I initially heard what you said, ah you you were saying like, oh, I went vegan, but then I was on a greyhound bus. I thought you were, I was literally picturing like ah ah ah pack of greyhounds pulling you along. I know, I know. That was what it would the problem was.
00:13:50
Speaker
Oh no, it's not that bad. No. no So um do you remember if there was anything that surprised you about being vegan from those, maybe from those early days or even through to now really? I mean, again, it could be anything positive or or negative. ah Yeah, the attacks that vegans get, the the comments, the jokes, the anger that meat eaters have.
00:14:15
Speaker
I still don't get it. I mean, I really, I remember like, yeah, and people saying, oh, but if you come to someone's home or you come to a party, yeah you have to just accept that you eat what they give you.
00:14:26
Speaker
And me have I remember having a conversation in Germany and Germany was way ahead with the vegan movement, way ahead of UK. I remember coming to the UK in 2008. And like, I'm trying to think, even 13, 14, I remember like, you know, geez, I'll go back to Germany. Like it's so, so better, you know, so much better.
00:14:43
Speaker
And um I remember I was in Germany. It was like 2000. And I don't know when it was 2011 or 12. And just having these arguments with people and trying not to argue, but they would just have a go at me. And I, yeah, and I just didn't, but didn't get it. And still like now I'm in,
00:14:58
Speaker
Now I'm in North Yorkshire and sometimes I'll post on the local forum something, maybe I need to find something vegan because friends are coming or... And the attack, the joke the jokes, it's mostly jokes, like so many jokes. And I'm not used to that anymore because in Germany they don't, I got less jokes as time went on. People just got so used to vegans in Germany like But here and in North Yorkshire, wow, the comments, the ignorance, just complete ignorance. Like they really, yeah, so that they they really don't understand what we eat. They they they think we don't eat hardly anything.
00:15:27
Speaker
It's crazy. It's interesting, isn't it? Because, yeah, I mean, I think I suppose you see, well yeah certainly I see lots of comments that say jokes and jibes or whatever on on Facebook and that that's kind of like an international kind of thing. So i've just I just assume it's there. But, yeah, like you say, you kind of forget sometimes that probably in different areas, like you say, if it's um high agriculture um or more less cosmopolitan, should we say, then then then there's there's kind of...
00:15:55
Speaker
things haven't really moved on in people. No, it's not at all, not at all here. I mean, and and what's really crazy about where I live, if a cat goes missing, everyone's crying and upset or a dog or if a dog or a cat gets hit, even if a lamb, the other day, a lamb got hit by a car and everyone does get online, oh, quick, so-and-so, this lamb at this street and everyone's crying and really sad. And I said to my partner, it's so crazy, the cognitive dissonance.
00:16:18
Speaker
These people are happy to eat the lamb, but if it gets hit by car, oh, it's so terrible. I think it goes back to your um earlier point, I think, about people saying that everyone says they love animals, but it's usually that thing of loving pets, particularly cats and dogs, fluffy things that look nice, but um if it tastes nice and they've done that for years, then yeah it doesn't doesn't tend to apply so much, does it? Yeah, no, no not at all. yeah Can I ask, Emmeline, um what I'm getting from from little things that you've said is that you've you've experienced a lifestyle where you're trying to avoid animal use to to different degrees, whether that's being initially a vegetarian or or vegan, in lots of different places and across quite a long period of time,
00:17:04
Speaker
Relative to, you you know, the veganism now, but most people who identify as vegan have not actually been vegan that long yet. They've come to it quite recently. I'm just wondering, just in terms of practical terms, like I reckon there must be quite a lot hacks that you've ah you've picked up along the way to so help make that lifestyle that still is statistically abnormal, to make that manageable and to make that sustainable and and work for you.
00:17:33
Speaker
what sort of things work for you to to make a sustainable thing for you. Yeah, well, before because I've toured a lot all over North America, Europe and Australia. What I'd i'd say is preparation. Before you go look up supermarkets, restaurants, you know, where are you're going to be. That's really important because you just never know what could happen. So having like those options, because you can't always carry a lot with you, can you? I mean, I i i have everything when I tour because I don't fly.
00:18:00
Speaker
i hardly ever fly. It would only be if I went to Australia home to see my family. Even when I went to North America in 2019, which was the last time I flew, I i got a bus and a train all the way to Sweden from Berlin where I lived. I was like trying to avoid flying. And so I so i basically have the most tiny setup of everything, like my cosmetics or anything of the tiniest little jars.
00:18:20
Speaker
And the same, so that means I can bring more food with me. So I always bring powdered oat milk with me. That's something I carry with me everywhere, even to the Netherlands, which is I've been going to recently a lot. And they're really good mostly. Well, actually, they are in some ways, but actually when you're in the the the train stations are not good.
00:18:37
Speaker
They are not good for vegan stuff. So, yeah, so I carry powdered oat milk. um I always carry, like, nut butter and nuts, um crackers, dried blueberries, hemp powder, hemp seeds,
00:18:49
Speaker
I'm homemade granola, dark chocolate. And then I try to carry like bananas, apples, blueberries with me. So like, or I top that up as I'm going through, because you can usually get that at stations. So that's my kind of basic stuff that I can always make a kind of crappy smoothie that I can just shake up and down or, you know.
00:19:06
Speaker
But I always bring that with me when I go to Germany as well. I mean, I know i get to know a lot of places, like when I travel there and so then I know where I can go to top up my things. And I think that's really important to prepare yourself before. Like when I went to Asia, it was really hard.
00:19:21
Speaker
China was especially hard. But um luckily I'd found ah vegan restaurant. Even though I didn't know everything I was eating, I knew it was vegan. So I couldn't i couldn't eat out really there because I i like i didn't i couldn't speak chinese and Mandarin Chinese or whatever. And I couldn't find, I couldn't. so So then I knew where the restaurants were, where I could get the food and the same with Singapore. But yeah, are being prepared, I think is really important. Something I learned from that trip in the US.
00:19:45
Speaker
And don't assume that the restaurant's going to be open as well. Like sometimes things happen and make sure that you've got backup ideas, like at least a supermarket or something. That is sad thing of traveling, isn't it? When you arrive at the restaurant that you found Happy Cow and there's a note on the door saying, oh no!
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to say it's a bit of a first world problem turning up at a restaurant and there's a note on the door saying, oh, you can't come into this vegan restaurant. But it still hurts, doesn't it? It hurts. And um the other thing is learning what you can tell. Like what I've also learned is when I go to a country with different language, I learn how to say certain things in vegan. I write it down and I take it.
00:20:25
Speaker
and then And then I ask them, you know, when I get there, I might go to a pizza Italian restaurant and they don't. It's not a vegan restaurant, but I can tell them this is what I want. Can you make this? And then um so I've done that a lot too.
00:20:37
Speaker
Like learning how to say, I've forgotten everything now, but French. French is really important because it's really hard to get vegan. It's not. Yeah, yeah. know, but that's, it's at least pretty easy, but France, that's really, so yeah, like having, just making sure, like that you, and even in China, I had some things like, this yeah, there's just certain things like a Buddhist meal is typically vegetarian, and also, yeah, if you go to to Asia, if you find the Buddhist temples, often they've got vegan food there, it's very interesting, there's a lot of things, yeah, you can learn, prepare yourself, be prepared, because things will always go wrong, something goes wrong, and then you're starving, I've been hungry in so many places,
00:21:14
Speaker
As I take my leave from this place Hurtling through the air I must find peace Underneath the dead skin as it peels away
00:21:32
Speaker
Okay, this song is called On the Wind, and it's a song I wrote about letting go and following your heart and getting out of the city, which was something that I was desperate to do for many years, and I achieved that in the last year. I'm here in this healing I do believe
00:21:53
Speaker
Leaving all I know an unknown faint Mary of soul I come
00:22:02
Speaker
Ride off the moon by the stones where the sea begins
00:22:51
Speaker
I'm just picturing you now with this like sort of picnic hamper going around the world. it's kind It's really tiny. It's like it's it's enough for like, you know, I always have enough for like one or two days.
00:23:02
Speaker
You know, it's enough just to because I know where I'm going. You know, it's always really tiny. And my partner's always laughing because he's like, come on, you need to bring more. And I'm like, you don't understand this 200 grams is going to like put it over, it you know. so yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
But that's just from experience, you know, like being a musician and touring so often and being big and back in like the early 2010s or whatever, like I had to learn really quickly how to be organised, yeah. You must, i guess, because, you know, more so than a lot of the people you're touring around and stuff, I mean, i mean um I'm lucky to travel a little bit myself, but you must see...
00:23:35
Speaker
some things that are positive change as well in in in certain countries that are getting better. like I think we've said like, you know, America's a lot easier now. and unless I even went to Paris last year and found some restaurants doing classic French dishes and patisseries and stuff and like,
00:23:52
Speaker
The rest of France tricky, but yeah, some of these things must must be kind of looking better to you, mustn't they, in the most recent travels? I mean, Venice was amazing. Venice, I couldn't believe how easy it was to be vegan. Like, there's a little restaurant. I've been going to Venice since I was, like, don't know, a long time. I love Venice.
00:24:07
Speaker
And there's a place that I've been going for like 16, 17, 18 years. I can't remember that I visit. And now they have these vegan calzonis, which is amazing. And vegan pizza. And I was like, wow, like they didn't have that like 15, 16 years ago.
00:24:21
Speaker
And they have vegan crepe in like Venice. You can like, there's all sorts of things now. It's um... I'm in the yeah UK like I saw what it was like when I used to come here because I used to tour here with another band I lived in London a very long time ago like 2001 and one and i I just sang in a band and I did lots of stuff and I can see the changes I'm here are amazing Australia was a shock actually I went six seven years ago on I did some shows and I played of two vegan festivals there actually and um i I got a ride like between the states, which was like an 11-hour ride, and we stopped in some little tiny place, and I couldn't believe they had soy milks in a vending machine. i mean, I've never seen that anywhere. i was like, wow.
00:25:00
Speaker
I think I've had you see that in Brighton, I think. Yeah, I mean, exactly. Like, this is in a rural place in Australia. I couldn't believe it. So, Australia, I'd say, has really changed. Like, I mean, I'm shocked. I go back and I'm like, wow. like You've mentioned like lots of – food practicalities there, which which is is really important, of course.
00:25:18
Speaker
But you've also alluded to earlier in our conversation about challenges with regards to other people's reactions to your to your beliefs, your lifestyle, and things like that.
00:25:30
Speaker
how How do you manage those things day to day? Because they're just as much a part of things, aren't they? If if not more, is it like, do you write a song? Do you ah keyboard warrior it? Do you just bury it down deep inside? What what about managing
Influencing Others Through Veganism
00:25:45
Speaker
those things? and Well, I mean, I have 7,500 fans on Facebook. Not that they see anything anymore because of the algorithms, but I have a lot of, especially German fans who are not vegan. And I've had, you know, I've always talked about it and I've always played a lot of vegan themed events. And so I've had people write to me and say, oh, I took some of your, you inspired me to to to eat less meat or I've for lunch there decided to have a vegan sandwich because of you.
00:26:11
Speaker
And umm so I've had things like, I guess I'm more gentle in the way that I live my life as a vegan. I don't i don't get angry and scream at people. I have a lot of friends who do that, you know, activists, friends who do a lot of stuff. um But it's just not my character, I guess. So I try to just show people.
00:26:26
Speaker
By posting on social media, which I've done a lot, I'm doing playing this vegan the festival. Look at the lovely things they have. and This is terrible. Did you know this happens to animals? Sometimes I would post that. and ah and and Also, I guess like people always say to me, all why you vegan?
00:26:42
Speaker
and I guess the one thing that seems to work that shuts people up, which um I decided I was on an island in Canada many years ago, and I met some people that hunted and killed their own animals. And I thought, you know, i if I were to eat my own meat, I would feel I would have to hunt my own animals. And I don't want to do that because I love animals and I don't want to hurt them. And so this is something i always tell everyone when they give me crap. I say, well, this is my choice that i if I were to eat meat, I would want to hunt animals hunt my own animals. And I don't want do that. It actually upsets me and I love animals and I don't want to hurt them.
00:27:15
Speaker
And so usually that kind of works. Maybe because it gets them thinking a little bit. And I say because I want to take responsibility for my choices. That would be. And and and so, yeah, so I'd have gone a bit off track. But, yeah, that's something that I thought a lot about. I still, that's something that I'm constantly telling people still that I need to tell people because they question me, say comments or, you yeah. Are there any other things in your life that you think have helped you go vegan and on things that have maybe made it difficult? We've talked, we've touched on some of these already, I think, but I just wondered if there's anything else.
00:27:49
Speaker
Obviously, the touring a challenge, the practicalities, maybe people around you, support, nut support, etc. Is there anything else that that has helped or hindered you, do you think? Yeah, i mean, like my partner's vegan, but his family are not vegan.
00:28:01
Speaker
um And that can be quite difficult. Sometimes it upsets me. They did mostly go vegan park at Christmas now. they There's maybe cream that they have on their dessert, but they pretty we will have a completely savory vegan meal, which I think is good.
00:28:16
Speaker
So since we've been since we've moved over here, then they've they've done that, which I think is good. So we have a nut roast now instead of meat, which I think is really good. And does does dev one does everyone have that? do they Yeah, everyone has it. um but Sometimes my partner's mother gives, she's pretty much vegetarian and she sometimes gives us crap her about it. She doesn't understand, come on, you can have this, come on.
00:28:37
Speaker
Other animals aren't, they're not actually hurt so much. That's propaganda. But I can't argue with her. She's one of those people you just can't win. so So that gets me a bit wound up sometimes. That is difficult. But um like we had our we had our hand fasting last year, which is like a Celtic wedding, and we did the whole thing vegan completely.
00:28:54
Speaker
Got it, found a caterer, did all vegan. And everyone came and they were like, wow, this is so good. And they were surprised that the cakes were really nice. And, you know, they were all like, wow, then you know, the cinnamon buns were vegan. They were so delicious. And and so...
00:29:08
Speaker
I don't know. I think, yeah, I mean, yeah, i I mean, I get angry all the time. Living in this area is really hard and I don't think we'll stay here long term. i Virtually I can't ah can't handle it, you know, just constantly being here has been really, we lived in Berlin before, you know, so Berlin is completely open-minded and more and here is like the opposite.
00:29:27
Speaker
It's like even the places up the street, the cafes don't have vegan, any like vegan milk as far as I could see. I went to all of them. i mean, that's how behind it is. pretty pretty yeah It's really, so really, like in every way that you can imagine, culturally, all right everything.
00:29:43
Speaker
and And so that is difficult because every day you're seeing the you're seeing the lambs, like we're seeing the lambs right now. And I just drive past my bed. I said, I won't say the words that I use about the people involved or I see the farmers or the animals in the trucks and I just think what kind of person can do that in this day and age and in the industrial scale of things, you know, you might argue ah it was different back in the day when the farmer had two cows or something and they lived outside or whatever. You can say whatever you like, but there's no excuse now. I don't, I think, you know what i mean? That's my kind of feeling.
00:30:16
Speaker
There's no need. There's no need. It's just people want it. and But that's just how people are in the world right now with everything, I think. It's not just i think we should you know it's not just um animal consumption. It's everything. It's gone it's gone it's gone k y you know yeah Still a selfishness out there, isn't it? Yes, yes, I think so, yeah. and cute Curious question maybe on your on your wedding because it's something like I've read many times. Did you get anyone who ah said they're not going to come because it was a vegan event? No, no, it's good no, we did we don't. we don't have I don't have people like that in my life. Basically, I don't have people in my life that are weird like that anyway in any way. yeah Everyone that we have. No, they're all. And also, like, I think. Call them off.
00:30:58
Speaker
No, I mean, look. Look, we had this c we had this wedding and my friend came from Ireland and she's like a herbalist and she did like a weird ceremony she was calling our ancestors from the West and the East.
00:31:08
Speaker
And that was already like quite challenging for a few of the people in the audience. I'm like, what the, is this like hippie witch stuff, you know? But I think everyone really enjoyed the whole thing because it was different and it was something they like, it was really different. You know, we never had this with anyone else. So I think people...
00:31:24
Speaker
think we're weird anyway in the family in a way they're like oh what are they doing they've moved over into this weird place and that we grow a lot of our own vegetables as well and they just think we're weird but anyway so they just accept it everyone's like yeah yeah it's just them but not everyone's like that we have you know we have Luke has a lot of friends who are quite open and his aunt is really cool so like yeah we're really lucky if I was in Australia I think it'd be a much a slightly different story to be honest a trick of winter when the snow melts Sleeping green leaves awake, waiting in the dirt.
00:31:57
Speaker
This song is called Bender the Trees and it's a song about healing nature and being disconnected from ourselves in the cities and lost in screens and technology.
00:32:18
Speaker
Plugged into a programmable world where we sell our souls And breathe screens, living and loving through buttons and keys And the bands are singing, can you hear them?
00:32:32
Speaker
Can you hear them? Light it on They know this magic, they will not forget the cars they need to mean, mind you, when I was last over there, some of my family members tried tofu for the first time.
00:32:50
Speaker
We went to a Buddhist temple to have the meal there. and um and And they were sort of like, oh, it's not it's all right. It's not not so bad. yeah yeah you know what mean? And this was just two, I don't know, this was only eight, seven years ago or something. And um so...
00:33:04
Speaker
yeah i mean i think things are changing aren't they and yeah yeah i mean my my nan in australia no way she could she died two years ago but she couldn't she couldn't understand it she couldn't number understand what vegan was and she just couldn't ever accept it that was you know she just couldn't accept it and she'd say oh but come on dear you can have this cream and she just didn't get it she's very very old-fashioned and you sort of have to And very traditional in every every single way you could imagine. And Australia is a little bit, you know, these people are coming from a generation where we were very behind Australia, like probably behind a lot of other countries. Everything, like like it was the 1950s and the 1980s in some ways in Australia, you know what mean? So these people, you sort of got to accept, ah okay, they're coming from a very small town.
00:33:48
Speaker
They've never really been anywhere. You kind of just change the subject. There's no point. It gets a bit like, um I think and we've talked about it before, where especially if you're thinking about, communicating veganism around it there's some people you just look at and you think the jump is too far here it'll be too much energy to expel to try and yeah exactly yeah exactly way one to yeah move on yeah yeah make a difference where you can make a difference yeah and um like i always give a percentage of my a small percentage of my cd sales to like local animal charities everyone knows that and i usually mention it at the show and
00:34:21
Speaker
and like So if they're not vegan, but if they follow me, they're going to see things in my social media. And I have had a lot of people come to me and say, know, actually had someone say they went vegan initially because they saw they followed me and they you know they changed eventually. So I think even if it's people reducing meat or at least thinking a little bit, I feel like, yeah, my gentle way of doing things. I mean, I have my songs that are animal. I've got a new animal welfare song coming out on my new album, which is quite dark.
00:34:49
Speaker
actually it's my darkest one it's very heavy and um a lot of people cry at festivals when I play it but I only played at vegan festivals because it's just so dark and umm so I'm not sure how we'll see how that goes I mean the the last one I did someone did say oh it doesn't fit on the album the the animal welfare one but I thought screw that it's part of me and that you know but yeah I mean but I've got most of my fans are not vegan or even vegetarian and yet they support me and they they follow me and they and I hope that something yeah that i'm talking about it's at least getting to them right do you know what i mean they wouldn't get it they wouldn't get it anywhere else probably and so they're seeing stuff that maybe you know just gets them to think a little bit more You obviously have ah a choice as to what degree your animal rights views and your vegan lifestyle comes into your art and and and your work.
00:35:42
Speaker
And that's ah I imagine there has to be a bit of a practical, pragmatic balance. there as well like how how do you walk that tightrope because I can imagine you could you could go too far one way and and and one thing would be too compromised and you go too far the other way and and the other thing's compromised how do you make so like I mean there's just certain things I won't do i won't play on a farm like if it's a like if there's a farm that has like a music series or a concert series I won't play there So that's first thing. No, not doing that. If it's like, and again, like if I get offered a gig somewhere that's like a really meat heavy kind of, I'm not going to do it. You know, I can't not play places where some restaurants or some festivals like they they're going to have, you know, unfortunately the catering, but there's just certain things or if I,
00:36:28
Speaker
hear something, even vegan things, if I hear something I don't like, that they're doing something else, I won't do it. You know, there's certain factors, my moral compass or my minimum things I want to have that I want to be involved in. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess like, you know, there's other people who are just vegan artists.
00:36:45
Speaker
That's all they are. And that's cool. um That's what they do. And they only do and animal welfare songs and that's awesome and we need those people, definitely. um But I guess I come from a different place where,
00:36:57
Speaker
I also suffered from like severe mental health problems. So that's in my music as well. There's a lot of that in in my music, talking about mental health. And also talking about finding yourself and being yourself and being okay with being yourself. I guess I i talk a lot about that.
00:37:12
Speaker
Reconnecting to, I guess that kind of goes against reconnecting. We're connecting with traditions or ancestors. or But I guess a lot of my kind of thing is going back to being true and being back to basics and and and having a connection to things around you, i guess, being connected, reconnected.
00:37:30
Speaker
And I think if we are, you know, we're not living 300 years ago or 500 years ago. We're living in a different place now where we don't need to hurt people. animals you know it's a different society where you know there's a choice we can make a choice we're different than our ancestors living ah thousand two thousand three thousand years ago that's different you can't compare it we're living in ah in a very modern society where we can make better choices and so i think there's less excuse and yeah i talk a lot about connecting to to the earth to the earth connecting to nature and therefore reconnecting with yourself i guess and um
00:38:04
Speaker
And so that's why I like to grow vegetables. I like to be connected. And that's why I wouldn't eat, would never eat. Well, I don't like the taste of animals and I i don't want to have anything to do with it. And I don't want to hurt animals. And I would never, even if I, I just would never do it because I don't want to hurt them. But, and that's why I talk about to people, I don't, I would, if I were to eat animals, I would have to hunt them myself and take responsibility. and i think,
00:38:24
Speaker
a lot of people don't take responsibility. I think if we take more responsibility for our actions and the way we live, a lot of people would make different choices. I really do believe that. If they had to actually take responsibility in every factor, including animal, you know.
00:38:40
Speaker
eating animals I think they would they would live differently but it's made society's made so easy that we can just make decisions and not think about it and so that's kind of what I'm all about and I and part of it is the animal welfare um that's one part of it and mental health and um connecting to to nature and and finding yourself again so it's all kind of a I think it all goes together I think I wouldn't have um Being able to, for me it's it's all part of the same thing in a way, you know?
Artistic Integration of Vegan Themes
00:39:08
Speaker
because because Because my true self is not someone that wants to hurt animals and that was something that was deep in me for such a long time and I wouldn't listen to it.
00:39:17
Speaker
You know, I didn't want to, it's not normal, don't don't do that, you know? And so that ah the bottom line of it is is being true to yourself and if you, I mean, if you actually speak to people who eat meat, a lot of them actually do feel guilty. That's the crazy thing, you know?
00:39:31
Speaker
it's it's such It's such an important message and um and it it sounds like you' you're doing a lot of great work in in in and spreading that and and and getting people thinking, which is is fabulous. Kudos to you. Kudos to you.
00:39:45
Speaker
I've only got time for one more question from me and and then port Paul can have a final question. I guess my... um going sound a little bit um melancholic, aren't asking this, but it's just a sort of hypothetical.
00:39:57
Speaker
If you could go back to the start of your vegan or vegetarian animal rights journey and and change anything, is there anything that you'd go about differently with the benefit of hindsight?
00:40:11
Speaker
probably would have done it a lot earlier and maybe... That's what we all said. It's funny that everyone says that, isn't it? lot earlier and maybe because back then in some ways, it's weird, in some ways I was more brave and I didn't give a crap about... It's weird. I think maybe I would have said more.
00:40:29
Speaker
um Maybe I would have fought more because now I feel like I'm getting older. I'm like, oh, you know, bit tired with people. But maybe then i had a bigger mouth and I could have just used it more. Maybe.
00:40:40
Speaker
Maybe I could have done more activism. I've always been on visas. I've always been in countries where if you get arrested, your visa gets taken off. And so I've always been like, oh. but But I, you know, i would um I've done some, like, marches and things in in Germany, but I never visited a slaughterhouse. I actually don't know if I could. I think there's people that do that. I've got friends who also follow the pig trucks and then give the pigs water when they – and I don't know if like I – actually think I might crumble if I – I don't know if I'm emotionally able to cope with that.
00:41:09
Speaker
you know, with my depression. And so I, you know, but yeah, I guess I i wish that when I'd had a bigger mouse and I was younger, i wish I'd done and said a bit more maybe, been a bit more angrier, I think, when I could have. Now I feel ooh, because I think when you get older, sometimes you think, oh, I can't do that. You know, when you're younger you're sort of experimenting and doing new things, you sort of just blurt things out. And I wish I'd been a bit more angry maybe.
Future Projects and Farewell
00:41:30
Speaker
and gone vegan earlier brilliant thank you so yeah last question really just to ah give you um give you some space to talk about your upcoming gigs and album i know you've mentioned to us uh directly about those did you want to just tell everyone about those uh yeah um well i've got a few festivals coming up in the uk um i'm doing i don't remember the dates though sorry right yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. um I'm playing at Freedom Fields, which is at a sanctuary in the UK.
00:42:02
Speaker
um I think that's near the end of July. I'm terrible with remembering these things. And then I'm doing Veg Out West in Wales, which is, when's that? That's the middle of July, I think. And then there's another one coming up that hasn't been, like, I can't give the details yet, that's um happening. It's in your it's in just outside of York. So anyway, that'll be ah I'll have it all on my website and everything.
00:42:21
Speaker
and um And there could be more coming up. Usually things just sort of pop up everywhere. And I'm doing a tour of Germany, but that doesn't help with people in the UK. um But i'll be doing I'll be doing some little shows. have listeners in Germany. Oh, do you? Yeah. Really?
00:42:34
Speaker
Oh, wow. Okay. Cool. Awesome. So that's awesome. um So, yeah, so I'm doing a tour of Germany um from the end of May till early June with my partner.
00:42:45
Speaker
And I'm trying to think if there's any vegan things happening. but But anyway, they all know I'm vegan and they always prepare for me, prepare when we're coming. So it's nice. um And yeah just like little shows here and there. And then I'm doing an album, my second album. It's taken me a long time to get this album done because of COVID. And then I've also had chronic illness, which is something I'm also writing a little about little bit about in music.
00:43:07
Speaker
um And that will be coming out a bit delayed. um That'll be coming out in early September as well. And there's going to be that really dark animal welfare song on it. And other songs, again, about nature and reconnecting and mental health and all sorts of things.
00:43:22
Speaker
And just think what else. I mean, I'm always open to it if anyone wants to collaborate and do something, I'll come anywhere. um if someone And I'm willing to do charity stuff as well. If someone someone needs a musician to play to raise money for animals, and if I can do it, I'm there.
00:43:38
Speaker
And hopeful hopefully hopefully we'll see you back in Worcester as well. I know you were trying to get back to to the church where we saw you. Yeah, yeah. They they they said they wanted us back, but I haven't heard anything back yet. so So fingers crossed, yeah.
00:43:50
Speaker
Brilliant, brilliant. Okay, that's that's great. So, yeah, I mean, thank you very much for your time um in answering those questions. was really interesting to listen to and obviously the opportunity for hearing the music as well. So, yeah, thank you very much for that.
00:44:05
Speaker
And, yeah. Thank you. Look forward to seeing again soon. Yeah, hopefully. Thanks a lot. This song is called Seal Song and this was written about the Canadian seal hunt.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I originally wrote it especially for a sea shepherd benefit back in 2009 that Paul Watson attended and I got to meet him as well. And it's a little bit dark, but I hope I got the story of what happens to the seals in Canada in the song well.
00:44:45
Speaker
And so the day begins. They pull up a 12-man crew armed with clubs and girls. But this is not a what I'll see it coming.
00:44:55
Speaker
They can barely swim. Some are only 12 days old. There's a kind of local competition here out on the ice floes to immobilize as many babies as possible.
00:45:08
Speaker
And they'll come back later to finish the job, skin them alive, skin them dead a dozen. matter to them. So go and stand tall, I dare you to wear your suits and your excuses.
00:45:22
Speaker
Be prepared to fall, cause I'll be damned if my taxes are paying for this killing spree. So I ask you, how can Canadians sit by let this hour unfold day after day, year after year?
00:45:41
Speaker
Where did we go wrong? Have we no compassion at all? It really breaks my heart. So go and stand tall, I dare you to wear your suits and your excuses.
00:45:55
Speaker
Be prepared to fall, cause I'll be damned if mine. Taxes are paying for this killing spree
00:46:11
Speaker
You spin you can make excuses You can try to live with yourself However you tell it, calling up statistics Washed down in the blood bar for cash However you sell it, it all comes down to business It all comes down to greed over life Greed over life Grade over life, life, life, life And so the day begins They pull up a twelve-man crew armed with clubs and guns But this is not a war they'll see you coming They can barely swim Some are only twelve days old
00:47:14
Speaker
This has been an Enough of the Falafel production. We're just a normal bunch of everyday vegans putting our voices out there. The show is hosted by Zencaster. We use music and special effects by zapsplap.com.
00:47:29
Speaker
And sometimes, if you're lucky, at the end of an episode, you'll hear a poem by Mr Dominic Berry. Thanks all for listening, and see you next time.
00:47:55
Speaker
This episode may have come to an end, but did you know we've got a whole archive containing all our shows dating back to September 2023? twenty twenty three That is right, Dominic. There's over 100 episodes on there featuring our brilliant range of different guests, people's stories of going vegan, philosophical debates, moral quandaries, and of course...
00:48:16
Speaker
around a dozen news items from around the world each week so check back on your podcast player to hear previous episodes and remember to get an alert for each new episode simply click like or follow and also subscribe to the show thanks for your ongoing support wherever you listen to us from