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The Backrooms (2026) w/ In Praise of Shadows
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Doug and Tony sit down with @praise_shadows to talk about the OTHER titanic horror debut from a filmmaker - that's right we're talking about Kane Parsons' web series adaptation/continuation The Backrooms! Are the Backrooms even that bad or is it a skill issue on everyone else's part? Can we finally stop debating the merits of YouTube filmmakers? We address these pressing questions and more in this very special episode!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Juice' and Show Overview
00:00:01
Speaker
Uncle Juice is a good man. He's never gonna stop being the Juice. He could explain a lot, Juice. Just hear him out, Juice. He's right, Juice. Listen, Juice. Juice, Juice, this is your life.
00:00:12
Speaker
Juice, Juice, please, Juice. Juice was there for me every night. It's like he's not really the Juice anymore. I gotta get you dressed, Juice. Juice, Juice, I will.
00:00:23
Speaker
Juice, Juice, Juice. Juice.
00:00:30
Speaker
Juice!
00:00:33
Speaker
They have some juice here.
Discussion on 'These Guys Got Juice' Show and Horror Themes
00:00:37
Speaker
They have some fucking juice. Anyway, this is a very special These Guys Got Juice. Doug and Tony are here with ah In Praise the Shadows to talk the and the latest horror sensation, Backrooms, directed by Kane Parsons.
00:00:54
Speaker
It's massive in there. It just goes on and on and on. All these rooms. This place builds them. Actually more like it remembers them.
00:01:11
Speaker
And the more times it remembers something, the less it does.
00:01:20
Speaker
In my mind, I don't know why I kept thinking. I'm like, yeah, 22. I think I just kept make was trying to make him older. i was i was just like, no, no, 20-year-olds can't make movies. That's not allowed.
00:01:32
Speaker
I feel still think that they someone someone out there is going to try to get like an even younger kid. you know like They're going to try to make it like a tabloid race to see how young of a child they can get into the record. Well, yeah, studios always learn the wrong lessons from stuff. Like when Barbie was a success, they're like, oh, more toy movies. That's what people were responding to. So I think with this that they're going to like, even though I think there is a demand for like like liminal space, like horror, I think that they're going to lean into the wrong things.
Kane Parsons' Work and Influence on Internet Horror
00:02:00
Speaker
Like like there's just I'm thinking of that scene with Jeff Bridges from the first Iron Man. He's like Tony Stark built this in a cave with a box of scraps. They're doing that. But it was like Kate Parsons built this with Blender.
00:02:12
Speaker
Fox scraps. but I guess that's a good place to start. We should go around and we should talk about our own familiarity with the, you know, this property or specifically the Kane Parsons, ah you know, lore. I feel like that's a good place to start. ah In Praise the Shadows, you want to go ahead? What's your familiarity with this property like? Um, honestly, uh, not a ton. Um, like internet horror is kind of one of my biggest, like modern, uh, blind spots, I guess, you know what i mean? Um, but I obviously knew about it. I'd never watched any of the shorts. Um, today I went and watched, uh, I think it was found footage three, the one where the car's in the wall. Is that the third one? Yes. Okay, so now I've seen that, but that's the only thing I've seen now.
00:02:59
Speaker
And so, yeah, no, I've just never really been, like, super involved in, like, Creepypons or anything like that, you know what I Outside of, like, I think, like, I was their age when the whole, like, Slenderman Marble Hornets thing was happening, and so, like, I was well-versed in that, but then, like, now it's all very forward to me, a lot of it is, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. I feel like especially with TikTok, there's been the evolution of analog horror and things have gotten a lot shorter and shorter and therefore there's become a lot more content. So it becomes a lot harder to keep track of like the big names or the ones that are actually good. Right. But, you know, for me personally, like I've always been fascinated about online horror. I think that it's like I viewed it more from a filmmaking perspective. I saw it as like, you know, people said that it would be possible for people to make short films and movies on YouTube. So Let's see what happens when people actually try to do that. And there's been certainly varying degrees of success. You brought Marble Hornets. I think that's a real crapshoot, to be honest with you. I think that's nice. But I think that there are some great examples. I was a huge fan of the stuff that Wham City Comedy did, specifically things like Alan Resnick's Alan Tutorial, you guys are familiar. That's very good. And very recently I discovered one called the Glendale Files. It's like a guy has shifted to an alternate dimension where he's the last man on earth and there's zombies after him. And it's all told in the format of like a YouTube vlog of like, today I did this. And it's him running away from zombies. Oh, that's cool. It's not as chipper as it sounds. But that's my familiarity with it. Doug, what's your familiarity with this larger thing, either back rooms or...
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, well, like I similarly have some kind of ah Internet horror and creepypasta blind spots. Like I like i I know like I know Marble Hornets, but I never really like delved into that. I basically was just like adjacent to like I knew friends that were into it. Like I, a lot of my and earlier exposure was like to the, the channel zero show, the sci-fi ah miniseries where like each season's an adaptation of of a
Kane Parsons' Career Path and Filmmaking Philosophy
00:05:08
Speaker
different one. Like, so, and then, you know, then I would go back, try to find like the original threads that like inspired it. But like, yeah, I wasn't really following like really any of them in in real time. I just remember a few years ago, a friend that I would like game with pretty regularly, like, you know, on one of our breaks, we're watching YouTube videos. He's like, yo, you got to check this out. And, you know, you know, there's always a friend show. He's showing his stuff on YouTube. and I'd be like, OK, is this going to be like some silly fan film or what what is this? You know, but I going to be racist.
00:05:39
Speaker
Like most of the Internet, will this be racist? No, I immediately was like, Theo Vaughn is apolitical. So, yeah. I locked in. It was like a very like visceral experience. It was like the first two ones he did that that I watched. um And yeah, i was I was really into the aesthetic and just the the whole vibe he was going for. And I didn't until after we like watched a couple and then he dropped the... Because I didn't have any context. He kind of just like threw it on. and he was like, yeah, he made that all in Blender. I was like, what the fuck you talking about? Because I thought... I thought i i was while watching it I was trying to figure out like are these sets like how did you fucking built this shit like like i was trying to wrap my head around it then when he said it was a blender I was like I I don't believe you that's that I mean, I'm also not good at animation. I know, like, i have a passing familiarity with Blender, so I definitely could not do any of this. So it was just very, very impressive. And then heard that, yeah, they age twenty four picked him up and gave him a budget. Didn't he, like, when they made the offer, he was, like, considering, like, whether he was going to go to college or, like, what his next move was going to be. And I think you i think wisely...
00:06:57
Speaker
Just make just make the movie. you know like look yeah i'm i'm not so i'm not you know Higher education can be valuable. And I went to film school. You can, you know, like valuable networking and other stuff. But like, there's no better experience than actually just like doing the thing. And it's like, well, he clearly obviously has been making short films. So he like has that experience. And like, it seems like he was ready for the, I mean... You know, like, we'll get into our individual thoughts, but I, I think he was ready.
Analysis of 'Backrooms' Film and its Narrative
00:07:25
Speaker
You know, like, I, I, I think this is like, was such a phenomenal debut. And I, I'm just, am really excited to talk about this. Yeah. I guess before we get into it like too much, right, I i will say like I was familiar with this series before ah the movies came out and um i did some catch up as well. I watched The Oldest View and like that's the one like I think that's his best work, you know, even including what we're here to talk about. today i think that like no matter what like i won't say anything about that won't spoil it but you guys check it out uh but since both you guys don't really have like a crazy amount of familiarity with the back rooms lore there might be some points where i like may interject later in the discussion to like fill some things in um but just to kind of paint a broader idea of what the shorts were right uh because you guys watched the individual found footage segments sure
00:08:20
Speaker
individual of the main timeline like those purposely take place five years ahead of this film even um so ah all of the main plot is actually within async and like a major malfunction that essentially causes that I guess entity branch of the government ah to like force itself to shut down. And what we're watching is like at the end of that story. I won't get too much into the weeds of it all.
00:08:46
Speaker
There's but certainly specific things that this movie kind of alludes to, but I'm also just interested to just kind of throw it back to you guys. um Without knowing much about the back rooms, like background, I guess, um did you guys feel like alienated or as if like you didn't have enough context to understand what was going on? Um, I, no, I thought that like, uh, I thought it did a good job explaining everything. And when it was going into like the sense of discovery, like I feel like the first quarter to half of the movie is the stronger part of the movie where like, it is about like introducing new idea, new idea, new idea, and like ah expanding on itself. Um, I thought that was some of the strongest stuff and like, yeah, I thought it was very, uh, easy to, to go along with it. Yeah, I mean, I'm a fan of being in the dark. Like, I kind of like horror when i have less ah context. So, ah like you like you were saying, like, the the sense of discovery, I was really digging because it's kind of like you get to go along with Clark, Chiotel's character. And we'll talk about him and, you know, like the performances in this, like this.
00:09:50
Speaker
I was actually surprised having seen a couple of the found footage yeah videos. I was like, oh, this is like plotty, not plotty, but this is like it has more conventional element, the storytelling elements than I was expecting. wasn't I wasn't sure what it was going to be. you know, like I knew it was going to be a mix of found footage. And, you know, like regular scripted stuff, I wasn't, I wasn't sure, you know, like if it was going to be presented in like a linear or coherent method, or if it was going to kind of just give you bits and pieces of, of, of whatever. But, you know, like actually like having characters that have arcs that they like, you know, like we, we can talk... I've seen people ah say the the script is, you know, like not strong or the weakest element of the film. I think that it is using like kind of like boilerplate archetypes or like, you know, kinds of characters and then like building off of them in like,
00:10:45
Speaker
unique way so like i I I actually don't I I don't have a problem with this with the script I actually think it does some uh like fun subversive stuff with the what what seemingly is like because like we were introduced to Clark and stuff like that that first scene I was like okay is this like gonna have like first screenplay syndrome even though he didn't write the script it was written by um shoot I had to Somebody else, so but somebody who wrote like a couple of episodes of television. like Yeah, I was trying to find out about them. They were in like Westworld and and stuff. And speaking of coherent incoherent sci-fi, like it was like, oh, wow, this this is more coherent than Westworld.
00:11:26
Speaker
Oh, homeland. interesting that they're kind of like seem to be downplaying that person's involvement here because like if you were just looking at like the campaign, you would think that Parsons wrote the script but based on how they're talking and stuff like that. Like I was really surprised to see that on Wikipedia page. Yeah. I was listening to him on the big picture earlier today, and he was talking about how ah in the pre-production phase, they had had another writer come on, and they fired that one and brought on a different one. And then there were things that once they had started production, he said that there were still fights that he wished that he had like not caved in on.
00:12:00
Speaker
like He was very frank in that interview, I must say. like he was very like open about you know like these were the things that we kind of had to sacrifice on and not. um But one of the major things that he kept on talking about was like, I wish we even pulled back even further. I wish that we could have reduced things. And and we're kind of talking talking nebulously about the screenplay just from a broader standpoint. What I'll say about it is, is that it's very literal and it puts all of the, you know, thematic context just on the plate and serves it to you. rather than letting you stmer simmer with it which is strange considering how the film tries to work within this like dream logic expressionist type type of delivery right so it's kind of at odds with itself which is also fascinating considering when you think about how all of the the majority of the backrooms shorts are like hard sci-fi um and satirical in nature um with like you know definitely the horror elements are predominant but it's like That was also kind of enforced by like Verhoeven, kind of almost, you know.
00:13:01
Speaker
ah So for me, and just on the broader standpoint from the screenplay in this film, um I just wish it was a lot less subtle, especially when we get into that third act. um But that being said, the broader points, the the the decisions it chooses to make, the the story it chose to tell, right? The fact there was an architect, you know, going into the back rooms is like, that's a draft one idea, right? Like, of course, then the idea of having like somebody who's going through this kind of surreal experience or unreal experience and then to force their therapist to come along with them, I think is also just like a fantastic idea.
00:13:38
Speaker
I think that more of the problems just come in how these seeds are planted really well and the mystery box is drawn out nicely, but then there's a point where the box has to be opened and it's not quite sure if you've gotten it fully. you know, and I wish that it was more assured in how it delivered that is the way I'd phrase Yeah. I mean, we can talk more specifically when we get to the spoiler section. There are some like I almost kind of like some of the ways that it's at odds with itself stylistically. But I do wish that they had held back on like one element or like one character that was like, oh, We didn't need to see him until like the end. Like, yeah, you probably know who I'm talking about, but we'll get we'll get to that. I don't know about what else to say. Spoiler free, because like I didn't watch really any of them. Get right into it. I didn't really watch any of the marketing, so I don't know, like, because that's usually my baseline, like, what's in the trailers? Like, that's fair game. But the trailer just showed that he has a furniture store and he found a door to a weird place, right? Like, those were the trailers. Yeah. I feel like
Character Development and Thematic Focus in 'Backrooms'
00:14:50
Speaker
it's like a very basic horror setup though, right?
00:14:52
Speaker
Like you find a creepy thing that takes you to a creepy place and you're walking around the creepy area. I don't think that like if you're an outsider to this concept, it's hard to, you know, buy into when you hear, when you see it. Right. And then it's how it like what it chooses its terror to be. Like, like people are so used to like the idea of, ah oh, ah the thing that's going to make people scared is like a ghost peeking around a corner. or like a guy with a knife who's coming at you, right? But this is a movie where it's like all of the tension is just going to be built out of weird architecture, out of yeah strange doorways, things that are just off kilter. And the fact that like when I was watching this film, ah maybe we could talk about crowd experiences as well. But like ah in my crowd, we got to that moment with the Christmas tree and like the energy was crazy. People were losing their minds in that theater. So like, it's it's crazy that something just like as simple as a Christmas tree in a dark room somehow sends those shivers up their spines. And the fact that that alone was an image that has not been utilized before in a horror context in a way. So I think that there's like primal stuff that really works in this film.
00:15:58
Speaker
And if we're talking from a broad spoiler list standpoint, people should just know that the fundamentals are still there. There's great filmmaking here. Yeah, agreed. Let's just let's just go to, let's go, the where we're in spoilers.
00:16:27
Speaker
Like, you should go, go, go see it if you have it. And yeah, ah so we're we're we're in the burn the spoiler section. ah Where do we start? Let's let's let's talk about Chiwetel. Let's get some Chiwetel talk going here. ah I'm trying to think, when was the last time like I would, because he's a fantastic actor, obviously, but he also does like a lot of crap.
00:16:53
Speaker
oop like yeah Like for someone of his caliber that ah I'm like, dude, you were you were 12 years a slave. Like, why why why are you doing the sequel to what's that? Charlize Theron Immortals. ah ah The Old Guard. ah the old Oh, yeah. Like good i don't like Netflix.
00:17:13
Speaker
Yeah. And the first yeah yeah the first one was like a real director. may i mean, i don't know. Maybe I i don't want to shit on whoever did the old guard, too. But. ah Be like, I could, I could understand actors. It's same person. No, it's not. Gina Plintz, uh, uh, Bythewood did the first old guard because she had like one, she'd been wanting to do like an action thing, you know, like that was, uh, before her Viola Davis, uh, one. And she was like, yeah, I want to, I want to do this. But she did not come back for the sequel. The sequel was like, might've been like the DP of the first one or something. I don't even know if it was like an actual director. That's never a good sign.
00:17:52
Speaker
You never want to hear the DPs taking over. So I always think about that Transcendence movie, the Johnny Depp one, where it was a one- Oh, right. It was, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, this is the assistant director from Rise of Skywalker did the sequel. So, you know, we're good hands. didn't finish. I feel like actually that was better.
00:18:14
Speaker
We're in spoilers now. you you You wanted to talk about Clark, and and I feel like yeah the reason you were so excited for it and then also just like i'm in agreeance with you I think that that's the most successful stuff in the film. Like this character, the way he's menacing and the way he's tied to the back rooms.
00:18:29
Speaker
um The back rooms in the original series is so much more about like a separate space that was created by, you know, corporate meddling. This is so much more about like how it's tethered to people. And I see a lot of Jordan Peele's Us in this movie. Absolutely. And as someone to Us is my favorite Peele movie, like I would say probably on a filmmaking level, like, yeah, Nope is him at at his height of his powers. But just personally in terms like...
00:18:56
Speaker
primally like what gets under my skin and like the kind of like he's and that's that's a movie that's kind of at odds with itself as similarly in some parts where like I did want that movie to be sparse there's like exposition at the ah end where they kind of give an explanation for like the doppelgangers and stuff and I was like was this a studio note like this feels like I didn't like I did not need to you could have just you know whatever she takes an escalator underground and then there's like it like i don't need to know what that is it just like ah viscerally it's like oh yeah she's descended into hell this is where the like doppelganger people came from like like i don't i don't need like to know literally what what that is uh but yeah i definitely can see the the strands of of us in this and i i think that the uh
00:19:43
Speaker
it It would have been very easy for them to go in many different directions with like the monsters in this. And I do like the fact that it's all practical. The fact that they're tangible things rather than like a CGI thing coming at you down the hall. Like there's some very like like tactile feel to this whole film. And the fact that the set design is reflective, not just of, you know, the nature of this ah place, but also of the emotions of the people on the ah outside of the space. I think ah comes across without needing to hit you over the head with it, but then sometimes they will do that anyways. um it's It's a strange place to be. um But I kind of going back to Clark, um I think that Ejiofor and Renee, when we get to her as well, they're handed some like very obvious stuff. Like he said, like, you know, slam dunk for those things. um But these are like Oscar caliber actors and they're treating this like it's Oscar caliber material. And Ejiofor specifically really finds the pain of this character without, you know, ah making him feel redemptive. Like we know he's a bad person. or i don't think that we ever, you know, are fully sympathetic to him.
00:20:52
Speaker
But then there's moments like him trying to make that commercial and he's on the peg leg and you just see him in pain. And there's a part of you where you just completely get him. You know, you don't need anything else. That scene alone tells you everything. So, yeah, that's just my thoughts early on with him specifically. That was one of my favorite scenes. um And my biggest complaint with the movie as a whole is that it doesn't lean, it doesn't ever lean into those character moments. Like the two, ah like videographer characters, I thought, based on the trailer, I thought they were going to be like in a ah bunch. and They're, they're really not, you know, they're, um, and I just feel like this could have been a lot better with like an extra 10 to 20 minutes of just character stuff with, you know, uh, with the back rooms and even before that too, you know? Um, but yeah, no. Yeah. Because they kind of just exist, the two kids who like he brings in to to film everything, like they kind of just exist in the abstract as like ah representations of characters. like Clark's selfishness or like his desperation and like the cost of that.
00:22:01
Speaker
But yeah, it would it would land a lot more and it would make him more monstrous if we could like ah ah like actually understand them as as people. Like, I mean, i mean even even short, i mean, because they are doing some shorthand for for even Clark and Mary in terms of like, you know, these aren't like, you know, the the most mind blowing character archetypes they could have. They could have given like, yeah, I'm trying to think of like,
00:22:24
Speaker
what do What do I even describe their deal as? Like, ah they're to get therere a couple. like think give the And another, I can't, like, tell you, like, anything about, well, the the one guy has a... He's wearing a cool shirt. Yeah, i like I like his shirt, so that tells you something about him. ah But why is a cat wearing a shirt that tells me anything about what she's about? It's two things, right? One, we need a body count in this movie, right? And two, it's like, if if we did have that extra time, right, it would have been so much more interesting. I fully agree with your point there. And and in what I think would have been more interesting too is if we had just more of the found footage segments in general. Maybe if we had like people diverge a little bit, it feels like everybody kind of finds each other very quickly in this movie, which is bizarre considering it's an a labyrinth. Right. I would have liked it more if there was, you know, maybe more individual ah struggles going on. here I feel like I'm nitpicking. um I'm very high on this movie. um
00:23:27
Speaker
I'm in a situation where um I think that obsession, you know, I feel like that's the natural comparison point people have been doing recently because they came out so close together. um I think obsession is like the better movie.
00:23:40
Speaker
But I feel as though Backrooms is like the headspace I prefer in films, the, you know, the the atmosphere I want to be trapped in. um And for that, I kind of prefer it, you know, like I would watch this movie more and more. I would like to, you know, see the little details a bit more in this film. But I still like, you know, that's not to diminish obsession by any means. That's just my personal opinion. um No, yeah, I am. Oh, sorry, sorry, you go ahead. Oh, no. One thing that I have been thinking about since watching it on Thursday is that I think i think the impression of it will be harmed in the short term, not the long term probably, but in the short term at least, by coming out so close to Obsession because people watched something that was like...
00:24:20
Speaker
so good with its character work and stuff like that and then to see this like right afterwards it's very easy in your mind to make like a comparison there um and and i wonder if some of because there has been a lot of like mid-tier the reviews and takes on it you know people have given it a lot of like threes and stuff like that and i wonder if that is part of because it's so close to the obsession window. You know what i mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like getting a a chocolate ah cake from a really good bakery. Right. And then like 30 minutes later, somebody comes with you with another chocolate cake, but it's like, you know, from Walmart and you're like, it's fine. You know, it's ah maybe not Walmart. That's very diminished. I was going to say, oh, shush fire. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. But like maybe like a slightly less, good place yeah but like they do like one thing really good you know like the icing's really good and and you're like oh but i really like the icing here so maybe i would get like you know what i mean like it's yeah it's like it's a slightly different thing but the fact that there are those little nitpicks means that this film will always have that hanging over it and and ah honestly i i do get the impression that many of the shortcomings of this film feel as though it's not because parsons isn't fully at the wheel I feel like if he was fully in charge, we probably would have gotten something a bit more complete and maybe something a little more vague as well. yeah Yeah. The more vague part is what, you know, like we said in the first section, like it surprised me how straightforward it is in a lot of ways. And the one thing that I was alluding to before like, I really wish they held back on was, was Mark Duplass like that. We don't really need to, I love seeing him. He's a great actor. you know, good filmmaker in his own right. ah
00:26:03
Speaker
But i I think if you hold him until that final conversation at the end, because like all the things, you know, someone's watching from like the, you see cameras, you see, you know, like ah things that are staged and set up there that could,
00:26:19
Speaker
are at odds with like the nature of, you know, there's nothing natural about the back rooms, but natural for that ecosystem that are like, no, someone put this, this stuff here. So you know that, that someone's like observing or something. And I feel like if you just withheld on who, like that, that's just creepy enough as is to know that you're in this weird place and someone's watching and like the implications of, hey, like, what is this? this some kind of experiment? Like I don't just to cut to like him out at a monitor. Like I don't I don't I don't need that. i We get everything we need in that final conversation ah because I do like that. He's just a guy like he's not even like the, the you know, highest level of async or anything like he's just a researcher there. But there's still, you know, like it. there is a larger threat behind him, even though he is kind of trying to, you know, talk plainly to have like, hey look, ah kind of like a cop in an interrogation, be like, I'm be your buddy, you know, come on, man.
00:27:17
Speaker
Uh, he kind of, he kind of has that energy, but like just seeing all that happen in that, in that moment was all I needed. I didn't need to see him at home, like with his family or any of that. It's, There's two things I wanted to say about Duplass's character, but one of them, before I say it, I want to ask you guys, do you have any plans on watching those short films by Kane Parsons? are you Absolutely. spoiling them or no? Like, do you want me to spoil them or no? You can, like, this is like ah going to be async stuff.
00:27:42
Speaker
This is async stuff. In Praise the Shadows, are you fine with this or no? Yeah, yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. The reason i'm bringing up is because it's directly related to this film. And, you know, I don't think that, you know, the film needs you to know this for this to matter, but I think it's important to know. um So the async plot line in the back rooms is kind of built around um a horrible HR disaster, apparently. Well, not apparently, but like ah essentially somebody is on a, you know, expedition.
00:28:12
Speaker
They go down a wrong, you know, corner. They get transported months ahead and in time and then they reunite with Async. And when they reunite with Async, they find out that they thought that he had died.
00:28:23
Speaker
So they told the family had died. They had the whole funeral and everything and claimed it was an accident. Right. So there wouldn't be any, you know, legal repercussions. But the problem is, is that he's back. Right. And then now they need to find a way to reintegrate him into society. You know, how to explain this to everybody that they just told he had died. um But he runs back into the back rooms after three weeks of captivity because he doesn't know if he's ever going to leave async, goes back to back rooms,
00:28:49
Speaker
is there for three days. um Async comes back after him. He ends up killing somebody, tries to escape the back rooms one more time. And then they say that he hit his head and fell um and he died. um And that's the reason that Async is shutting down. And that happened two weeks before ah the end of this film.
00:29:10
Speaker
that's a really interesting point for us to come in at this point. And then also that question at the end, right, of ah that Renee has, is or or I should say Mary, you know, ah Mary has that question of, um you know, like, what's going to happen to me, right? have just think about what happened to that guy, right? You know, he was trapped in the facility. He ends up going back to the back rooms because that seems better. and then by the time he gets out, he gets, you know, disappeared. So this async facility is completely untrustworthy, right? But the second thing I was going to say, I've been rambling a lot, but ah you know there's a lot of things with this. um What I did like about seeing Mark Duplass throughout the film was that um he was essentially a reflection of Clark. um And this is most pronounced ah through ah the never-ending story ah being played and then Clark watching Santa Claus conquers the Martian. They're both guys who with arrest development. And they're both people who are entranced by the back rooms.
00:30:06
Speaker
Right. And when um Mary is talking to Phil at the end of the film, she realizes that she's just talking to a different kind of evil. Right. Once she's already encountered. So I do like that inclusion for the finale of the film. It's very underhanded.
00:30:21
Speaker
Right. I could I could very easily see that not landing with everybody. um But I also think that ah there could have been more done, you know, just I think if he was more of a presence, I think if Async was more of a presence, this film would have been better. Yeah, because you could ah my feeling is like either show him less or give us more of a reason. Like I get what you're saying of that ah parallel between him and Clark. I kind of would have, I guess, wanted to see that it's it's expanded on and like through him, you could like, i because i guess the fear is like, you don't want to tell us too much about async. So they're shadowy and scary, but like you can, if you do that through the eyes of like a lower rung guy like you can still be withholding about like the larger picture while still kind of showing us how they operate. um Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:13
Speaker
but The ah the ah only thing I have related to that was um I did like, because I had so little familiarity that when we saw him the first time with his kids, I thought in the back of my head, it would be fun if they're in there.
00:31:29
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, cause I, cause that scene has so little context that I thought it was a fun idea that like, is this like in reality or is is this a place in the back room that these people are? living in and I thought that was kind of a fun idea like in my head not knowing much about it you know what i mean um but ah you're on the absolute right track because that's what the original plan that Async had was their original plan was to colonize society yes into the back rooms they were like back rooms is infinite space we take we take over the back rooms we move society into the back rooms no more global warming right infinite power right like that's what Async's idea was Right. So you're hitting the nail on the head.
00:32:08
Speaker
I feel like that's still up for great. Cause like we, like you said, we get so little context. We don't really, well, we know he's somewhere where there's a TV signal and he can watch, you know, like ah Clark's commercials. Although, There is ah because like i'm I'm jumping around, but one of the more unsettling things, ah because I've seen people say that they wish we saw ah more of Clark's time solo during that window of when we jump back to Mary him when he comes back. And i I agree that'd be interesting, but there is something that's so eerie about like we've cut away from him and then Mary just gets that voicemail from him about, you know, saying like, I opened the window, I'm not coming back. And so do you just like could kind of hear his state just from his voice. But then it's also like, I don't think he left to make that phone call. So he made a call from the back rooms like that. That I did something like they get phone service in there. What the fuck's going on?
00:33:09
Speaker
Those 1990s cell phones, they were different, man. He brought the whole bookcase down, you know? That's what he did. um No, the ah I like that ah transition point because it's always a great classic bit, right? when You've got the one guy who's going stir-crazy, right? The one guy who's buying into it a bit too much. And with these therapist meetings that we get early on with Mary, and I do want to crack into Mary quite a bit because I think she is a fascinating character, right?
00:33:37
Speaker
has some of the same problems with Clark. But with ah Clark in those therapy meetings, it's very clear he's an abusive man. And it's also very clear that this film is operating on the same kind of wavelength of The Shining, in the very least that Jack or Clark in this case is crazy from the beginning, right? And it's not a matter of, you know, him turning nuts. It's a matter of him just, you know, further descending. And we're just watching that. And I think that Ejiofor knows that. And when he's going through the back rooms, there's almost an excitement to him. I really love the moment when ah you see the chairs thrown in the other room and he doesn't run away.
00:34:16
Speaker
He just walks away. And and and he he just kind of walks up the hill as is a thing that's presumably coming towards him. So clearly he's not in any kind of urgency.
Symbolism and Lore in 'Backrooms' Film
00:34:26
Speaker
There's some some kind of ah sense of being resigned to his fate that I just really liked. i don't know. Just thought. You're more familiar with the overall lore and like the entities within. I know that like, you know, we'll we'll elaborate more on like when Clark kind of makes his discovery or like what his explanation for some of the things we we see. But I know that like but some of those, a lot of the entities we see in this are known as like still life. I think ah they're called like when the ones that kind of like ah copies of people.
00:34:58
Speaker
ah But is that for sure the like the one, you know, like the Captain Clark that at the end that's that's chasing her around is is that was throwing chairs in that room? Because I like, has it copied him yet? I don't know if it has. Like, is that just another entity dicking around in there? There's a few things I actually want to touch on here because there's a few like lore related questions that have been dropped in the past a little bit. I want to like catch on to those because the first one was, ah you know, there was this question about like, what is async now at the end? That was question was brought up again. I want to reiterate, right? Those found footage sections, right? Those take place everywhere. After the events of this film, these are people who are just wandering through life, who just wind up in the back rooms, right? And what the film what the shorts suppose are that once the portal is opened, it creates a bunch of places like that across America and people just start going missing.
00:35:55
Speaker
And they start increasing. And when you see those found footage shorts, ah there is no ah sign of async. So that means like after whatever happens in this film, they no longer continue going to the back rooms. And it just keeps getting worse in the sense that it keeps on developing. When it comes to like the development of ah the Clark pirate, as well as um the kind of like entity, life form, villains, whatever you want to call them. um The Captain Clark one, I could buy him being the one that we are meant to you know be scared of through the whole movie in the sense that if we're thinking of it in the longer timeline, the back rooms is escalating. It's changing and getting crazier faster and faster. So I could buy this being a situation where it's like um it didn't need a much time to to make this. And also another thing that's important to note, these still life characters, these are like new. These have never been in the original. Like there was like one that maybe you could see is that. But the idea has always been that like the back rooms create these like stringy things out of just like molecular compounds to kind of puppet. And then the more that people um enter the back rooms, it essentially takes human biology and then morphs its own. So like you would see like mold growing, but the mold would be alive. Right. So this is like the end point, I would say.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like we've seen the string, we went to the mold, now we're here, right? That would be my answer for that question. Okay. Yeah, I buy that because like it almost, from a character standpoint, it makes sense. And in a way, you know, for the think about the back rooms itself as like, you know, i mean, it builds things, but I don't know that it has like,
00:37:38
Speaker
a consciousness or will of its own, but it almost feels like it is reaching out to Clark in in sense of like before he even finds the door, the threshold or whatever. There's that thing with the light switch, like things are bleeding into his side, you know, like it's not just contained to like in the back rooms itself. Like I love that light switch going the wrong way and the electrician being like, it's not even attached to anything. i don't know what that what that would control, you know. So that's, yeah, it's almost, it does feel like it's kind of like, you know, kind of Similar to the, the, the overlook, you know, like, you know, welcoming Jack, you know, be like, come on, you know, like the, it almost feels like the back rooms like, yeah, Clark, come on, check this out. It's both that, right. But then it's like grizzly man, right. where he thinks that he's in charge of these things. But the reality is, is that like the back rooms is a hostile place. The back rooms is welcoming people in, but those entities are like essentially like animals, right? they They don't have like consciousness or anything. They're not like, you know, going to talk to you.
00:38:39
Speaker
ah They essentially see you as a threat. They're go to take you out, right? That's the way they've always been depicted. So for him to hang out with these entities, I see it as him like hanging out with a bunch of grizzly bears. And he's like, they're my friends, you know, like they're cool with me. So so what happens to him is almost like a matter of time scenario. It's kind of surprising that he was able to, cook you know, exist copacetically with them. for and I don't know if we get an exact timeline, like how many days pass between, disease do they say a number, like three days or something, that he was gone before Mary comes in? oh Yeah, it it seems like it's been a a couple days or or however long, but... It's like, oh, he managed to work out something where they weren't immediately attacking him or they were just vibing with him or lulling him and into a false sense of security. But in terms of those entities, like, ah you know, like being animals, I think it's interesting that we see... like those like in that awesome set piece where where they have the rope and they're lowering like the the boyfriend down there and he sees like all the it's it's basically like a hoarder's ah den but like ah animals do that with behavior like some animals will just like grab like trinkets of things or like something whatever catch catches their attention they just like make piles of it so like but the fact that it said that it that denotes like a level of something like like not saying that they're like you know conscious you know fully sentient conscious things but it's like well it it made some choices there in terms of like gate you know taking things uh so you know i think i think that's interesting and i just love the idea of async just leaving these cardboard like caveman that's like just playing like ah audio like um because what what that is I think I saw like a translation of, of, um, I forgot. I saved it. No, no, no. I'll just tell you what it is. no no, no. It's the golden record. It's the thing they put on the satellite for first. oh
00:40:39
Speaker
Oh. Yeah. So of course this company would try to be like, yeah, well let's, let's make context. Let's let's try see what are they thinking? Hmm. Do the shorts ever go into, because it felt like more time passed in there while he was in there than in reality. Do the shorts go into like time passing differently? Yes. So actually you caught that onto that perfectly. So the the time in the back rooms moves slower than in natural reality, but there are points of time, there's time pockets essentially, where it's like you go down the wrong hole, right? You walk down the wrong corridor and now all of a sudden you're months in the future. Actually, one of the interesting things is ah the very first Backroom short, right?
00:41:20
Speaker
um He's in 1991. He goes through the ah Backroom's area. ah The whole event happens. And then his camera falls through the sky. And you see on the time code that four years had passed. So time time dilation is really crazy and unpredictable in the Backrooms. that. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, we were talking about Clark. I feel like I want to save that final confrontation between Clark and Mary. Like, like let's so let's do little table setting for for for Mary. and Oh, yeah. ah I would love to. Is is it Renee? How do you pronounce her name? I think it's Renee. I don't have it in front of me, but Renee. Okay. the the The worst person in the world, as some people might know her as. I would i wouldn't say she's that bad. I think she, you know...
00:42:10
Speaker
It's fine by me. People were being really rude. They're like, this woman is the worst person ever just for existing. Oh, your horses? Jeez. It'd take to see a woman live. It's fine, sir.
00:42:23
Speaker
But no, I thought she was great in that. Also in A Different Man. Like I've enjoyed just seeing her in and everything so far. So I was looking forward to, I think she was a replacement for originally they were trying to, there was negotiations for Kristen Melody to ah play this part. and Oh, that would have been so good. I mean, I really love her, ah but that almost feels like too obvious. Like she's always getting stuck in places or like stuck with abusive men and stuff. So, you know, like ah the I really like what Renee brings to this. Wow. I think that ah she's perfect casting similar in the way the Ejiofor is where she's taking this very seriously. And there are very specific line reads that are like nobody else would have done it the way that she had done it. Like I'm thinking about sequences like that happened in the third act where she's like very aggressive. And like she does a good job of boiling over. Something that we haven't talked too much about is ah how this film is largely anti-nostalgia. It's anti, it's like kill your darlings, essentially. It's like um holding on to something for too long, essentially, like, is the thing, the rot inside of you. And ah her subconscious is actually a lot more closely linked to the back rooms itself than even... Clark's is, it seems. um But ah to kind of get into some of the stuff that I find interesting about her on the beginning surface level, she has this like worldview that she's constructed for her ah clients. But it seems like she's in the part of the like part in her life where she's realizing that she doesn't buy her bullshit anymore. And that sequence of her watching her own commercial there. um I think that's such a, you know, slap in the face, like, ah what am I doing here? Like, how did I do this? you know? Yeah. No, I i really liked that. I, you know, I knew, you know, she was in the movie, but I wasn't sure to the extent of like, I was assuming Clark's our main POV. So I was, i was, you know, very happy to see that we, you know, like when we shift to senior at home, i'm like, okay, yeah, we're not just going to get her like through Clark that like,
00:44:32
Speaker
She is like her own character with with her own, you know, ah set set of issues. But to that point of nostalgia, like, you know, this is set in 1990. And it's interesting the way that the film is shot that like the real world looks more artificial than the back rooms at times. Like that. I think there's like that that. That's very intentional about, like you said, of like the kill your darlings or Kylo Ren once said, you know, kill... kill the past or something.
00:45:05
Speaker
Well, so I'm just glad you didn't say Anakin Skywalker, who famously said killed the Padawans, you know, killed the younglings. I mean, sorry, younglings. I messed it up. ah He was talking about the beer, youngling. He fucking was pounding them right back. Yeah. you You mean yinglings. You messed up too. Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
um But ah ah with with with ah Mary, right, um we're introduced to her with that handprint moment, right? And I think that that scene is really well handled. I like that, like, we see them doing the handprint on the the pavement and her mom's with her. And you then you see the bulldozer drop the shrapnel on them. And then there's that harsh cut. That's a great shot. Right. Right. And then also the match cut on the pavement.
00:45:52
Speaker
And it makes you think that they had just destroyed it. And then we find out later that she just has that, you know, block. And and also, i admired the restraint of the film for not telling us whose hand she kept.
00:46:04
Speaker
Did she keep her mother's hand? Did she keep her own hand? I want to know. Yeah, I it is interesting what they have restraint on what they don't. But I'm glad that that is a thing that they don't feel the need to to spell out or specify. But like and and like you said, some of some of the stuff is like almost like first draft ideas, like to be like the therapist of the main character. who's going through some kind of you know episode and is not well has a her mother was you know uh had psychotic break from from reality and then now she's led into a surreal dream world like like but even though i'm saying it it makes it sound like i don't fucking love how it plays because i did an execution i'm like yeah this is fucking rad like it gets me amped when i realize like That's where we're we're going with it, even if it is like a kind of predictable starting point. But I i do love the way that that informs her character and like, ah you know, where we go with her. One thing you said just a moment ago ah that I didn't want to like forget, but I want to touch on also. You said it's in 1990.
00:47:08
Speaker
Does the movie ever actually like say that early on? Yeah, it does title card. Okay, because I don't remember seeing that. And it also confused with with her specifically. It confused my boyfriend. Because he leaned over and whispered at one point, when he was like trying to like convince her, when he showed her the map and he was trying to convince her that this was real, he leaned over and he was like, why doesn't he take a picture of it and show her? And I was like, I'm pretty sure this is in the 90s. I got in the vibe that this one, I didn't remember seeing that title card, but that had he had missed that detail that this was supposed to be in the ninety s And so I thought that was kind of... interesting that it was easy possibly to miss that in the beginning. Well, he saw the end apartheid shirt and he's like, which one?
00:47:48
Speaker
you know yeah Right. um yeah um But then also, and also, by the way, i like just as a side note, Kane Parsons knew what he was doing, just as a side note. Well, because like, yeah, yeah like it's, it makes sense for a guy in the nineties to have that, but because there's an intentional blurring between past and present, like I, to speaking to your point, like, I think that's almost a benefit that you could easily miss that it's the nineties because that's, that is intentional of saying like, no, yeah, like we're still stuck here. but there, there is a small title card at the beginning of the film. Like if you guys were maybe like, you know, talking or like,
00:48:23
Speaker
just had come into the theater whatever right like very easy to miss gotcha okay yeah i was i wanted to touch on that because i was like i was watching it i was pretty sure i was like i'm pretty sure this is somewhere in the early 90s but like i didn't remember actually seeing that detail i think it's uh like most of the events of the like fallout of everything in the youtube series that's may and we're watching the beginning of june um and uh Going back to Mary a bit, I think that it's so stupidly obvious and I'm saying stupid, but it's also clean enough to work to have it so that her childhood was being forced to be stuck inside. Right. So then she's like, you know, perfectly equipped to deal with the back rooms. The one who's known for letting the window open or whatever, right?
00:49:09
Speaker
um I think all that stuff is like thud, you know, like thuddingly obvious. But Renee is doing such a great job in terms of performing it. um And I do think the fact... I do like the fact that we see her character go to the places that she does and not get an easy out in the end.
00:49:28
Speaker
I think that ultimately all of that stuff makes up for how obvious it is. And I could see a version of this film that would have been just a bit sharper with this. Um, I don't think the problem is in the therapy, really. I think it's in this mother stuff. Last thing I'll say on this, there was this like minor non-controversy that kind of flared up on Twitter recently um where people were saying, oh, Osgood Perkins, like, or whoever had ghost directed the film or what have you, right? And ah I would say that if anybody ever wanted to like try to legitimately level that case, I would say that all of the mother stuff in this film feels shockingly similar to stretches of long legs.
00:50:07
Speaker
um And, you know, i think that movie is good. ah But, you know, if the detractors want to take that, they could take that. I get what you're saying in terms of, like, the mother-daughter arcs and in in those movies. ah Yeah, but I think it's absurd that people but you think that Cade didn't, like, direct. Like, I agree with what you were saying earlier that, like, it does maybe feel like some of our issues with this movie are due to, like, how much control did he have? You know, like, because you know he was...
00:50:40
Speaker
You're giving a 20 year old like a, you know, a but, you know, like it's still low budget in terms of like horror just costs less than other genres. But you're giving a lot of resources to to this kid. So they probably, you know, there's there's, you know, they want to watch their money probably. So I'm like, how how how much freedom did he have on on that set? And it seems like, yeah, there were there are instances where he wish he could have done more. I think it's a weird position because it's it was framed, you know, from when they were making it that he was getting the privilege to do this. Right. But now we're at the hindsight of this. It's this movie is going to be like 90 to 100 million opening weekend. Right. He was the one providing legitimacy to A24. Right.
00:51:21
Speaker
he hit what he was bringing to the table is actually like worth more than, you know, going to filmmaking actually. And like, this is kind of outside of the film itself, but quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Kane Parsons at some point in his career decides to just go back to YouTube because like, quite frankly, they're like, the the the time commitment that it takes to make something like this versus the result, right, that he may see and the impact that he may have, right, it may not make the same amount of
Comparative Analysis of 'Backrooms' and Other Films
00:51:49
Speaker
sense. And and and like I just think that'll be an interesting thing for him to weigh in the future and how this will evolve. Because this is essentially the changing of filmmaking itself.
00:51:58
Speaker
This is like how short films will be given out in the future. So I think that it's important to see how somebody in this position who's kind of carving through that kind of approaches this, you know? yeah it will It will be interesting to see how he evolves or like what his path is. Yeah, like I guess it depends on like what his priorities are like from a storytelling standpoint because I would like him to try to stick with uh, you film, uh, at least a little bit, but, but push it in the more abstract withholding method, like, like, ah like in terms of like more sparse storytelling, like, like he's like kind of melding of worlds with this one in terms of like, okay, we have a screenwriter and they're giving you like, you know, these, these,
00:52:43
Speaker
a basic starting points but like it was like okay let's let's take that away let let's let him let him cook with just whatever you know so i it will be interesting to see where he goes from here i want him to hang out with jane schoenbrunn i feel like they would really yeah i can't wait for teenage sex I know. I'm excited for it. It's like with ah with all of these movies that are coming out, right? Like, oh, Obsession. So good. Oh, Backroom. So good. Faces of Death. So good. I'm like, I'm just like holding out because I'm like, I know Camillia's going to be the best one.
00:53:14
Speaker
Like, um I don't want to like get too hyperbolic on any of these other ones because I know that that's probably going one of my favorite movies of the year, if not my favorite, you know. I mean, TV Glow was like top three or two of that year. Yeah. It was one for me. like i im but I want to revisit it because like um I had like ah almost like a near panic attack during that movie. like i had a really like weird effect on me that like, do you things have?
00:53:38
Speaker
And weirdly, like the only two movies in the past, like recent memory that like in theaters that did that was that and The Fablemans. I also had like an almost panic attack experience. that Yeah, like that was a very anxiety-ridden movie to me. um And so I would like to revisit Teen Eagle because it's been like two years ago, like next week or something like that, right? And I'd like to rewatch it again.
00:53:59
Speaker
bought the Blu-ray and I've never... I've never put it in. um so I need to do that at some point. Perfect ah reason to do so now. This conversation hopefully was an instigator to do so. Yeah. that that that That was one of those movies that like, moment I watched it, I was like, oh, I i get it. You know, like I was like, oh, this is great. You know, i loved it. And yeah like, it's one of those movies that like I've shown to people. I've been the annoying person to bring my own Blu-ray around and be like,
00:54:26
Speaker
We're going to watch this tonight, you know, and it but it works. You know, I haven't had any negative, you know, criticisms, you know, so I'll keep doing it until the morale doesn't improve.
00:54:37
Speaker
um but we We were talking about ah other stuff with Mary's character in this film. I do like that she is a tape kind of person. It feels so outside of her own temperament, right? Like but there's like this kind of like new age size to side to her versus this, you know, reserved. and And she's almost because because this whole ah exercise that she's doing with Clark is is in a way enabling him. Right. In a way, it's keeping him in that space, forcing him to relive this thing over and over again And the film literalizes this through the environment itself. The fact that it's a copy of a copy of a copy over and over again in this environment. And the more that it goes over the same space, the more it gets wrong.
00:55:19
Speaker
Right. And I like those are not just, you know, again, this, this script is very obvious, right? Those lines land with thuds, but they also make it easier to describe. Right. So, i yeah, I think that all of that stuff is very clean. As delivered sometimes. Yeah. Is ah that still life that's that he takes the like red hair from to put on her at the end, is that a copy of his wife? Yeah. You see a picture of her.
00:55:45
Speaker
but Yeah. They do have, like, ah by her bedside, she has the red hair. And then ah when when they're they're sitting at the table, right, he's having that moment where he's like, well, this guy, you know, like maybe there's a guy who's sitting with a lamp, you know, and he he doesn't have any legs. And then there's this guy, maybe he's this. And then he goes, and then her. And he just does. It's finished with her. Yeah. He's like, yeah, I'm not explaining that. Maybe a little too obvious. Right. But but Doug, I'm sorry. Like we were sirens going off. You just cracked the seal on the dinner scene. Right. And I feel like we just got to pull over here at the side of the road because this is the best scene in the movie. We go we go full Texas Chainsaw Massacre here. right I mean, they that's my favorite scene from that movie.
00:56:27
Speaker
Not as good as that. Let's be clear. Not as good as that. No, no, no. I'm not. I'm just saying kind of in that vein a little bit. You know, like if we were talking about Inspirated, like Shining in terms of Jack and Clark, but this feels like we're definitely in that.
00:56:42
Speaker
in that territory but uh yeah it's it's it's the height of the movie that's why i disagree with when people are saying like yeah the first half's good and then after the found footage part like it all sucks i'm like okay there's a lot of good stuff at the end you're throwing out um Uh, but yeah yeah like, Oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh no. I, I, uh, the only thing that like that sequence was the only moment that in my screening was getting like a reaction. Uh, you know what i mean? And I can always tell like if a horror movie is being successful or not, my boyfriend is very animated. And if he like starts like slapping me or something, like I know something is like working.
00:57:20
Speaker
and like the, when he started cutting the like food off of that guy's tummy, that was like, a really interesting detail and just the like casual comment of like and you can eat uh his delivery of that is incredible i'm like that's why you cast him smile right it's because because he it's not that he's cutting he stops cutting he puts the knife down he starts scooping it out right like it's like a pulp inside of a pumpkin right um and then he looks at peace like like oh Yeah, no, all of that stuff is great. And and ah what i what I like about it is it reminded me a lot of the movie Tourist Trap. Have you guys seen that one? Yeah. Yeah, yeah so so ah definitely you know then ah how that movie is all about like here's this like domain that this person has, right? You've entered their domain and you don't know what the rules are and they're going to play with you in surreal ways. They're going to make you feel smaller because they know more. And ah and and there's a comic slash perverse thrill that they get from it. And like the audience is kind of on edge because of it. I think that, you know, ah Texas Chainsaw is the obvious like point that this is pulling from. But I'm feeling a lot of tourra ah tourist trap, especially in this moment. And then um i love the architecture of this scenario because there's the like kind of hallway to nowhere behind Mary's character. And the moment that, you know, Cabin Clark's come in, um you know, his... ah life a still life version of his wife runs into that corner and just starts, you know, like flailing. Right. And something that we didn't talk about earlier, because ah we were talking a bit about like how these things work, what's their, you know, headspace. They don't like communicate ah to to each other or anything. It's not like, you know, communication or, you know, vocalization is something it does for fun. It only does that when it's trying to like lure but a human to kill.
00:59:13
Speaker
in the series or in the movie, right? So the fact that it's wailing like that is like completely new. Like that's that's a new kind of pain, i would say. Well, the implication to me is like, our they is it trying to reenact or duplicate the dynamic of Clark and his wife? because it's when Captain Clark enters and like we said, like he's clearly, whether or not in the actual marriage Is is he just verbally abusive or has he actually struck her unclear? Like, you know, like in that that is more disturbing that we don't fully get because you we're getting the, you know, details from his account of it. So, you know, he's ah clearly going to not you know share that part to to to his therapist. But ah the the implications, though, of the still life version of his wife, you know, flailing away in terror is troubling. hmm. Well, all I'll say is like, if there, if, if like all it takes is three days and I get the time dilation or whatever, but like if all it takes is three days for you to start eating people, were not, you know, didn't take a couple steps to the edge. You were already at the edge, you know? Like he, he was clearly already crazy as a, going back to the whole Jack thing. Well, Kat's head is in the fridge. Why did he keep it there? Like, even if she, I forgot about that. Like, I kind of, I like, I do wish more was filled in with her and her boyfriend, but I like the fact that that's just like just there. And we're left to so like our brains fill in of like, so what the last time we saw her, she's on the other side of like a one way mirror, and like the arc, the some, suck some kind of thing where she can see through, but he can't see her. And then Captain Clark is coming from behind him and picks up the camera. And then presumably Captain Clark killed her, but I'm like, how did that work out? And then he kept her head like, well,
01:01:00
Speaker
I know electricity is working there for the lighting, but I'm surprised that the fridges work. You know, like they they they got all of that stuff right. What's what I'm saying? They got phones. You can live there. Like they got everything. Well, Well, actually, that's something like not to get too into the weeds with the lore, right? But like that that's something that's interesting about the back rooms is that like, like, it's so in the weeds that there's like a 15 minute special devoted to just talking about the lighting, right? And how the molecular compounds structures work, right? And what's interesting is that a lot of the like, surface will be the exact same to human reality, right? Like, A piece of drywall will feel like a piece of drywall or whatever. But then it's like the moment that you go beyond the surface, you'll realize that the like composition is like an so like ah like kind of like guessing, right? Like it's it's trying to piece together what it would have been. So like a lot of the, you know, goop that you're seeing out of that, it's like combination of like polymers, you know, like in, I don't even know how it's edible, you know, like i don't even, like it's it's like it's assumption of biology.
01:02:04
Speaker
Imagine that, right? They have no organs or anything in there. There's just something so bizarre about that. and and I like it as a concept. oh and And then also with the, with the, you know, that whole sequence, I just like the guy with the lamp. I just wanted to say.
01:02:16
Speaker
Oh, well, that that I did too. He feels like the most Twin Peaks element of it. Right. Like, does doesn't it doesn't it get if you feel like that? I mean, the whole back rooms itself, like the red room where time time dilation is this future or is it past? yeah So, like, i feel like there's there's some overlap there. I noticed, um I'd be curious about the reason why this was like a practical production reason or what was going on. In close-up, we could really like, the guy in the chair next to the lamp, we could like clearly see every detail of him.
01:02:50
Speaker
But then most other shots, he was like heavily in shadow. And the lighting around that particular character didn't make a lot of sense. Not that it needed to, but I was curious about why it was that way. Because every time we cut light to him, like we you could see like every detail of his clothing and face. and everything like that.
01:03:05
Speaker
um He stuck out to me. I liked him a lot. he like In the light, he looked like Edgar Allan Poe almost. There's something like really strange about that. um One thing I would like to do is i would like to go back to the movie and see if there were direct parallels with those two other characters that we could find within the film. um like that That would be interesting. and Because the the guy that he cuts the hole in, like for the first time we saw him, I was like, is that the electrician? Is that the guy that we saw? flipping in the boards and stuff but i don't think it's him and i wish that it it was a little more cheeky in that sense but not maybe that would have been too tidy or whatever there's also i don't know if it's him or not there's that shot of like the guy putting the stuff in the buggy the like down shot in the parking lot is it i don't remember what that guy he the homeless guy like your yeah yeah but the car yeah yeah yeah i'd have to rewatch yeah that the But I kind of do like the if it we don't see the one to one of everything since there is since it is so tidy in other areas that like I'm like, I don't need to know what it was copying for those because like just just the weird details of like when he finds like, is it like a dead seagull or something? ah yeah Yeah. I'm like, is that just a one flew in? It accidentally came through or did it cop or did it just copy a dead seagull?
01:04:29
Speaker
No, I think that that's what it was, Doug. think seagulls are flying through because we see the fly, right? The fly goes through. And actually, one of the things that's interesting in Found Footage 3, it's established that something comes out of the back rooms and into reality. So like that'd be cool to see like what would they would do with that in the future. um But when it comes to... um like Because we were talking about the other life forms, I guess. Was that where we were at there, Doug? Sorry, you didn't... Well, I was just ah ah you know like speculating on our our guest at at the you know did dinner scene, but ah about that that scene, i just want to... you remember. Your earlier point about that there's like ah this grizzly man aspect to to Clark, because... like
01:05:13
Speaker
His explanation seems like that is correct in terms of like yeah how the back rooms duplicates things like he's been there enough to observe that process. But the fact that he thinks that he is safe in that knowledge, like like I'd still like that. It's like, yeah, he's figured out some of the mechanics of this thing, but this isn't.
01:05:32
Speaker
A human space, you know, like this is not somewhere where people are meant to be. That's the whole idea of liminal spaces is like, it's like you're staying too long in a place you're supposed to be passing through. Like, it's like the you should, even if you figured out some kind of way to exist here, that's not, that's not supposed how it's supposed to work. So like, that's not going to be sustainable. Well, theres there's been studies that have been linked to like prolonged fluorescent light exposure, right? Like if you don't have any daylight exposure and you're just under intense like like that, that's really bad, not just for your you know physical state, but mentally as well. Yeah. And, and It's touched on in the web series, but like there is a psychological component to the back rooms as well. ah The longer that you are there, the worse you are off, generally speaking. um So i think that that's a representation of that as well. um If we're talking about tidy things, right, we were talking about, you know, um things that would have been too tidy or whatever. There are two things I noticed that were tidy that I really liked. Uh, one of them being, um, the chair that, uh, Clark sits on during that commercial that breaks is the chair that he sees when he walks into that room.
01:06:41
Speaker
Did you guys catch that? Yeah. the so and Okay. And then the second one was when, uh, Mary has the confrontation with him in the reverse, um, you know, Captain Clark's, uh,
01:06:55
Speaker
it's almost the same track like track that he takes in that commercial. And he winds up in the same spot where he sits down in the center and then he hurts his leg. And that's where she hits his peg leg, of course. um So, you know, not not like it's doing like an Edgar Wright, you know, told you the thing at the beginning of
Reflections on Horror Themes and Influences
01:07:14
Speaker
the movie kind of thing. But I just thought it was interesting that if you were paying attention, you could spot that. I like that. i didn't notice that. Yeah, i't I didn't really catch it. I'm excited to to rewatch this. I feel like I will get a lot out of ah subsequent viewings. But ah before ah yeah we were talking about the Jersey, but I kind of want to also go back to like when he first goes into the back rooms and he comes out and then he goes to marry.
01:07:36
Speaker
i do like the detail of like, you know, I said it's interesting what what this film decides to over explain or not. But did he ask her, like, have you ever 5150 someone which is Like if you know about, you know, that thing is like, yeah, it's an involuntary cycle, but the, it doesn't, you can tell from context what he's talking about as the conversation continues, but it doesn't feel the need to be like this, you know, or or he, instead of having him just say, have you ever placed anyone under like an involuntary hold? Like, I, I just like the choices just have them be like, yeah, you ever 51 50 anyone. and And just the idea of him being like, cause like i
01:08:11
Speaker
You know, any rational person would know this is going to sound crazy. but So he's like checking you like you can't commit me if I tell you this. Right. You know, like I like that he's smart enough to know that he's he's really like we we said a lot of things about how we like Clark, but he he really is pathetic. Right. And it does have to be noticed. Right. That like his architecture sucks. Right.
01:08:33
Speaker
Right. Like all of his plans that he wants to do um have really poor perspective, much like a similar notable 20th century historical figure who was also known to be whiny, by the way. and That's that's a lot to put on Clark. I'm sorry. But at the same time, I find i find that um all of that stuff, ah he's like a schemer. Right. He feels like he's been wronged by society, by life. Right.
01:09:01
Speaker
So that he he begins to act that way to others, right? He thinks that he's owed something by everybody. And I think that that's ah that's an interesting quirk to make that way. And he's even kind of implicitly being that way to Mary in that instance by asking her that question, right? Can can I be on the level with you or are youre just going to, you know, go crazy on me? You know, is is what the, you know, backhanded thing of that is. and And then there's also the other flip side where it's like, I just always do like it in a horror film where it's like, you are in that position. You are talking to your therapist. You're like, I am in this position where something unusual is happening, right? Do you believe me or not? Right. That's an interesting hook. Right. And the fact that it's given to somebody who I'm at arm's length with to someone that I'm like, you are a bad person.
01:09:47
Speaker
Right. I think that's also it gives us a position where we're like, yeah, he's right. But it's also like, don't wrap her into your bullshit. She's got enough going on. She she's going through her own identity crisis. Don't bring her into yours. Right. Right. but We were talking about Captain Clark, you know, the bigger thing just briefly. I don't want to like pull us too forward into this, but I do want to say, did you guys know it was practical? Did you know they just got a guy in a suit for that? Yeah, I was looking up the actor that they had. It's just a really big guy.
01:10:16
Speaker
yeah that's awesome. He did the alien and alien rhombus. Oh, the hybrid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. that ways that Is Romulus, is that new one? I get the subtitle. Unfortunately. Yeah. Okay. yeah yeah Yeah. I mean, that was the like kind of interesting part of that movie. And then even then I'm like, you just did re Resurrections ending again.
01:10:36
Speaker
that that That might be the least interesting alien movie. Yeah, absolutely. Out of all of them. I'm saying even Resurrection has more going on under the hood there.
01:10:49
Speaker
ah We're not talking about from a, you know, quality perspective, you know. Sure, Romulus might be, you know, the Walmart brand alien, right? But I'd maybe watch the messy Resurrections first, who
Exploring Film Themes and Character Motivations
01:11:01
Speaker
knows. um But I made a joke tweet earlier this week comparing Obsession to Hellraiser 1. But this film really does kind of strangely feel like Hellraiser 2. little bit uh and i've always held the opinion that that the second one's better i mean the first one's hornier so like you know like i have to give it that but two i just like that it does the like i i don't like when sequels nowadays hold off on ideas because they're trying to build out future sequels i'm like spend your whole concept in one movie just go as far as you can with this but that's what i feel like the hellraiser 2 is doing where they're like yeah fuck it there's like
01:11:41
Speaker
ah It's going to invade the real world now. It's the apocalypse. Like they. Death labyrinth. Yeah. And they just have to resolve it there. And i I love I love that it just keeps going. Like it's just kind of like yes anding itself. But yeah, I do get that vibe from here. ah There's something i i i don't. think the movie is necessarily taking this viewpoint because I would really not square with what I know about Cain Parsons ah views, even though he's not the the screenwriter. But if I was to play devil's advocate, what do you think of the notion that the whole like Mary's whole retort to that that dinner conversation
01:12:21
Speaker
is basically kind of like you're responsible for yourself, you know, like stop blaming other people. But could that be interpreted as a kind of conservative message? You know like when poor people are like, like, oh, stop blaming other people for being poor. And, you know, like, you know, you should take some responsibility. You know, that that's always like what conservatives retort when someone's like complaining about systemic racism. issues or systemic, you know, you know, financial you know inequality. So i don't I don't think that's what the movie is saying. But like there was a moment when she like, know, touched back with that. I was like, huh, that it had like a bit of a feel. So that I'm going to push back. Right. Because like there's the line that happens earlier in the film where he's like, I wish somebody would come and help me. Right. And then later on, it he makes it clear that he wanted his girlfriend slash wife to do it. Right. He he didn't want her to go to law school, not because he didn't. you know, think that she was ready for it because it suited her, but because he wanted her to operate the store while he became an architect, right? He feels like a victim of his circumstance over and over and over again. And the reality is, is that like, if he hates working at the fucking Ottoman Empire so much, fucking sell the land, you know, do something different, right? He's got ah a plot of land and a bunch of inventory. You go through like one clearance sale. That's enough to do something different, right? I hear what you're saying, Doug, but then there's also the the element of action there too, right? And I think that that's the key element that Clark is missing is that he himself will not make that step and that's what's causing it. And also there's the added context of him being like 49, 50, right? you know, like Edu4 is, right? I'm not arguing that, like, ultimately he is to blame, but I just mean like that I also a little bit, even though he sucks, like I kind of do see him as a victim of circumstance. It's just that he's taking the wrong approach response to it and blaming other people for something that's not really anyone's fault other than, you know, the world or the economy's fault, you know? if If we like rotate to the beginning, like pre this film, right? Like what how did he become this guy, right? I imagine he was sold this lot, right? And sold these this inventory and he's like, oh, it will it will sell itself or whatever. he was like caught in a money pit. Right. And and one one thing I will say that's interesting, too, is that he he's idolizing ah other guys who are selling furniture on
'Backrooms' as a Metaphor for Reality and Society
01:14:52
Speaker
TV. and And he's trying to emulate their advertisements. And what's funny about their stuff is that they shot their stuff outside. Yeah. Well, it's hard to move around with a peg leg outside. You know, there might be gravel or like a pebble and you fucking trip. you bus he He almost busted he busted his shit inside the store just from sitting down. Yeah, for this shitty inventory.
01:15:16
Speaker
For his shares that will kill people if they sent him out. I was hoping that there would be a subplot where he would take the furniture from the back rooms and sell it. i Yeah, because that big pile goes away, and I do wonder what happens to it. Right? When she first goes in. Yeah, like the big pile, like in the doorway. Hmm. Maybe he made like a really cool bedroom, you know, he yeah on all that. just made a cool crash pad. It's like now i making the coolest spot ever. i guess that would be the upside of living in the back rooms. Like there's one graphic in one of the web series where they do that thing where it's like this is the size of Earth. or And then here's the size of the back rooms right now. Right. going ah So it's like you you could literally do whatever you want in there. That'd be cool. And it seems to be infinitely expanding. So like it's not it's only going to get bigger. Well, the the implication is that the async terror is actually making it so the backer was will one day overtake reality. It's the implication of the series. I think that's an improvement. It's good that that's happening.
01:16:13
Speaker
Well, that that actually speaks to something that I think that this film thematically is going for, which is that this film is actually about like the conversation of the elimination of spaces, right? and like Or places, I should say, right? third third Third place, right? Like third space, I should say. um The idea of, you know, these in ah in between communal spaces that have, you know, disappeared from society. And with the in in the original pitch of the series, the idea was to move them into the back room. So obviously there's that intention. But within this film, we have it. So Clark is already living within the store before the movie starts. Right. right He is bought into just full assimilation with the second space.
01:16:52
Speaker
And now um with Renee's character, Mary, at home, there's She is in a position where the first base is being impeded, right? Like she feels the pressure. It's coming to her there, right? She doesn't feel safe and within her own home and it's pushing her outside of it and leads her to the back rooms. So I think that it's interesting that Kane Parsons is not only like talking about nostalgia, which we could even talk about more later on.
01:17:18
Speaker
But he's he's also talking about um what I just illuminated there. Yeah, ah because i've I've seen people, ah I mean, you know, not that we have to go through every brain dead take that someone has online, but someone like a plot, like, yeah, finally, like a a movie that that's not political or, you know, like not woke. And it's like, I think the movie has things to say. Yeah. No, no, no, no, Doug. I think you're reading too much into the end of Parthide shirt.
01:17:45
Speaker
It's just, it's just a random shirt he picked. I did see one tweet. It was like, it was someone trying to like talk about what they saw in the movie and someone quote tweeted and said, actually, it's about like spooky monsters chasing somebody. And like, that's one of my least favorite, like things that people do with horror. happens like all the time. Drives me crazy. Um, actually the curtains are just blue, you know? Yeah, exactly. yeah you know, like, It's it's brain dead because it's flattening, right? And it's especially brain dead for something like this, where ah the exposition for the space is so directly linked with the subconscious of these characters. Right. And like... we're preaching to the choir here, all art is political, right? This was going to have some kind of political thing to say regardless. And I do think that this film is trying to rectify with people who are stuck in the past and the people who are willing to let it go. and and one of the things that we see in the ending of this film, right, like kind of jump to, like it's's it's so blaringly obvious, but the fact that she takes that stone and she smacks her,
01:18:46
Speaker
captain clark in the head right the way that she does that again hire a better screenwriter you could have done that a bit better but the idea itself makes sense and it is sound and i do like that the film is at least approaching saying that right that she's willing to like go of the the past or where she's kind of forced to but also the captain clark almost seems like he is feeling pain in that instance when she strikes back which contradicts what clark said earlier when he was cutting open the guy like they don't even feel pain i'm like i don't know maybe maybe they do a little bit
01:19:20
Speaker
No, no, Doug, Doug, remember what I said before? The only reason they communicate is to lure you in, right? What he's doing is he's whining. Like with like the real Clark. Exactly. And then also like that whole thing about when Clark takes a bite out of him, right? I just love that it's like inferred. It's like I learned it from watching you. like he he's been watching him eat other people all day, right? he's like, oh, why why can't i I have a bite, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that is true. it's yeah I just like having Clark's proportions, the way he looks. like like That's a good villain design, I think. It's a little goofy, but I like that. you know I like that there's something about it that's like, this is going to be the thing that gets me in the end?
01:20:03
Speaker
i don't know. I
Technical Aspects of 'Backrooms' Filmmaking
01:20:04
Speaker
like it when a movie has something like that. That makes it kind of scarier that it's like a goofy, like ah uncanny looking thing. And ah to the idea of like what the movie is talking about, I feel like ah the screenwriter and Kane Parsons probably have some kind of opinion on AI, right? You know, like the whole idea of like a copy of a copy, not being able to, you know, like it's it's just a shitty facsimile of of a thing and there's no actual soul inside of it. Not being able to get fingers and eyes right. Yeah. Yeah. The proportions are all weird.
01:20:37
Speaker
And yeah, you can't. The thing is, you can't at least yet. No one's been able to eat any the anything that's been AI generated. So the back rooms wins. What do you think those power facilities are for? You know, that's why my electric bill's going up. Let us. Let's see. What else? um what What did you guys think? Like, did you guys catch any of the Blender use of in this film? It was really hard to tell. when I just knew from reading beforehand that, yeah, the back rooms, especially the the found footage segments were going to use Blender. So it was it because like so much of it was clearly concrete that it did...
01:21:19
Speaker
It's like, okay, well, like when she's getting chased around by, you know, the Captain Clark at the end, I feel like when there's she's in that, she has to go up and then there's like all those levels down. like, okay, well, that's animated. But like, I don't, i there's a lot of stuff that kind of just blurs together. where I'm like, is this the set? Is it not? I think that we when I was watching it, I i think the last...
01:21:41
Speaker
pool room was a real set but I think the other like rooms with like water that he was running through I think that was done with Blender um that was like the most obvious one to me because like the light on the tiling like struck me as like not entirely real uh which works fine within the context of the film um but that was the only one that really stuck out to me like It's seamless regardless. I think in the yeah in the web series, I think it's almost lifelike just because of the way he did it. And also just by the way, it's something I found interesting is that Kane Parsons actually will do it in in Blender and then he'll convert it to VHS tape, convert it back to ah digital and upload it before. And that's how he accomplishes the look. I wasn't sure if he put a filter on or not. But what I found interesting was that most of those found footage sequences are just Blender.
01:22:24
Speaker
like he all he ah Like he will like film a segment where an arm is there. And then like the moment that you see the arm go away, it's back to Blender. And like I was able to catch those moments and and I wasn't sure if other people would. But like go back when you watch it again. This movie has a lot of Blender in it. And I would be i would be surprised if more people don't realize the kind of effect you could get at a Blender. Because ah like Flo...
01:22:49
Speaker
right the one that won uh the oscar for best animated feature was animated in blender oh okay and i feel like there's there's these two you know polars right that was a stylized animated film this is something that looks lifelike and it's like giving you know cgi houses a run for its money i would be i'd be shocked if more people didn't go more down this route um where was i what else was going with this Um, I, I think that also the melding of these physical elements, you know, to have like a tactile creature that's going through these spaces and the fact that there are sets to go along with these things, it makes it all work together. It's like not an over-reliance on one thing or another. And and it kind of going that point, Dougie had brought up the, the ending, that staircase, right?
01:23:33
Speaker
What a great set piece, right? Like um that's an amazing design. I mean, that and then also the little hole that he has to climb through earlier, like when there's like the door with the three knobs, like there's just something that's so fun. And like, I i know like in overall series or more as like the a little bit the fans filling in in terms like how game like the back rooms is and in in the web series. And like, you know, like there's like. There's there's levels and in things. like i I like to the the touches of of this where it does seem like there's just different kinds of spaces, but there's not an actual... The only thing we see of levels is like when she gets knocked out and then we go... I love that of like when we're when we're like just going down like an elevator. Yeah, we're just sinking down and down. So we're like, oh, we're like...
01:24:26
Speaker
Similarly, it's like I said the end of us when it seems like she's going to hell. It's like, oh, we've gone to the lowest rung now. my My favorite was the Dogville one where you just saw the outline of all furniture. But actually to that point, Doug, you bring up a really good point in terms of like the lore in the sense that like there is that delineation between like Cain Parsons like lore and fan fiction. Right. And ah what you're describing there, the version of there being different levels is the fan fiction. Pete Parsons' version of the back rooms is that it's just continuous. That just keeps going on and on and on. There's no delineation, right? The idea ah that the people online have come up with,
Backrooms Lore and Fan Engagement
01:25:05
Speaker
right?
01:25:05
Speaker
The back rooms is a place that you go to, right? You no-clip into the back rooms, but there's no escape. There is no async that's created and or anything. You've now just entered into this reality and this is your new reality, right? and And that whole lore is built around like how to survive in the back rooms, right?
01:25:23
Speaker
That's the kind of lens that I would, you know, tell you. Yeah, like haven't they come up with like healing items and stuff like they've really gamified like like the idea of it, the the fandom has, which is interesting. Like I but I'm glad that.
01:25:38
Speaker
That's not in the movie. you know like like there to To me, there gamey elements like when he's trying the different knobs of a door, but that's like like more subtle, and i i I prefer that than to be like, yes, this is these are levels, and here's your health bar. Uh-uh. I am so glad that there are no smilers in this movie. There are no party goers in this movie. they like the The problem with the backroom's lore, as it is with the fandom versus Kane Parsons, is it has a real SCP problem. I think the SCPs are the fucking worst. I hate it.
01:26:13
Speaker
I hate it. Get rid of it. And the reason it's bad is because it's for people who want to be creative writers, but they're only good at writing like forms. You know, they're only good at writing like, you know, incident reports. And rather than try to make a create compelling world, they're just like, here's this badass thing that will kill you if you look at it. And I can't even describe it. It's so bad, you know. And that's the vibe of the backrooms fandom, really, where it will be like, here's this thing. It's a bug, but the bug will kill you if you look at it. But if you if you if you got a light, if you shine a light on the bug, the bug goes away and then you run away. but But you can't go anywhere because there's still the back rooms. Like there's no there's no respite. There's no worldview. Right. If you're talking about the idea of no politics or whatever, there you go. You know, that's I guess that's that. But even then there's politics, I would argue. Yeah. But like that is the kind and and also stuff like that is encouraged by literal video games. You know, there is a video game called Escape from the Backrooms where it's essentially steeped in the lore of the fans. But what I will say is that I think with this movie, we're going to get like a Star Wars effect where like all that shit's going to not matter anymore. I think that Cade Parsons going to own this, unfortunately for them.
Film's Climax and Ending Critique
01:27:30
Speaker
Fortunately for people who like good stories. Yeah. So we had talked to ramble. Sorry. No, no, that was it was a need to clarify, because I knew there was some, you know, like fan added lore, but I wasn't sure where the line was. except There were very explicit things I saw from fans like complaining about, like, why wasn't this in the movie? I'm like, was that even part of the thing? Like, seems like you just made up you just made up a thing to get mad at.
01:27:58
Speaker
um But we talked about the end with with Mark Duplass. But I just like how we get to all of that because we've seen, ah you know, those caveman, you know, cutouts before. and And so the fact that her tripping that just sets off like it's just knockout gas flooding the room and that she's like barely staying conscious to get away from from the ah pirate ah Clark like that's so intense. With the knockout gas, was it affecting the the pirate? Because I'm like, they don't have organs. So like they don't like, quote, quote, breathe like we do. So like because like the idea of using like gas to knock someone i was like making a lot of biological assumptions. Right. Like I feel like you're like assuming that stuff that works on us will work on them. But I like didn't seem like he was too. He was more slowed down by being hit with the thing than like the knockout gas. Yeah. Yeah, no, it seems like ah they don't have regular bile. They can't feel pain. Right. So it's like I don't think the gas was for them. I think the gas was for her. Right. And like, as we know, they sink from the way they've been perceived in the film. They watch. They don't interfere unless they absolutely have to. She runs into them.
01:29:13
Speaker
Right. She tripped something that forced her into them and they were upset to see her. Right. They don't want anything to do with her and they don't anything to do with any other person who comes into the back rooms because it just reminds them of their failure in my eyes. I would I would like maybe within the movie itself, either more with them at the end or less. Yeah. Because it does feel like we have the climax and then we have this extra section that like almost feels unneeded, almost kind of deflates the ending of the movie a little bit when we reach them. Like it almost feels like we're starting like another act that doesn't actually like get going. You know what mean? That would have been cool if it was like a third act of her with Asic. I think that that have been a cool way to go with it. But one element of that ending that I really didn't like, I really don't like the part when she comes through the entrance and she's there and there's all those people and they're blurry. I like the effects that Parsons used. He's used this effect before. Watch the oldest view. He uses the effects there in the sequence. But what I don't like about this is this is the most glupshadow. This is the async portal that Async created from the series, right? This was the moment that was to be for the fans, I would say. Right. Oh, OK. Somebody who knows that context. Right. I'm going like this is fucking lame. I'd rather just like I care more about Mary at this point. Right. I want to see her thing through. So I guess like successfully so from Cain Parsons and company, you know, they were able to make a good character in that sense. But I do also agree with you that it's like hat on hat on hat. I'm like enough. Too many hands. Well, it's like if you tease that, like without even knowing that that's what that was from the series, I was like, oh, well, it makes me want to just another segment where she's trying to escape from a sync now, you know, like that we get to see her run through those. facilities but also when mark duplass is kind of debriefing interesting word choice of when he's asking i mean he's like asking questions that we already know the answers to but he needs to like verify these things for you know purpose of their report or whatever but he asked how did you get in here and like that almost made me think to like your point earlier like oh was he in the back rooms with his family like it almost feels like an uncertainty of like where they actually were in terms of like, do they just have like kind like a base camp on that side? And that's where they were there. They're briefing her because I'm like, did they even had to has she even come back to the real world, you know, by the time we're at the end? I would argue they are in the real world, but I do like that it asks that question and it makes you doubt it, right? I think that that is earned. You know, lesser movies would try to pull that shit and you would be like, oh, come on, you know? I'm getting my popcorn ready and you're pulling that shit, right? But this is a movie that actually is able to do that and you're like, I actually believe that this environment is so unsettling that even if you see a window, you don't buy it, right?
01:32:20
Speaker
kind of Going back to The Shining, right? If you were to map out the floor plan of The Shining, right? It doesn't make geometrical sense. like you You walk around something where windows are, there shouldn't be a window there. So like it it would make sense that you would have that same kind of... ah feeling and actually something to like uh in praise of shadows you've seen uh part three of found footage you've seen that in the back rooms it gets to the point where they're mimicking ah the
Potential Franchise Continuation and Audience Impact
01:32:45
Speaker
sky right which i which is one of the most arresting images in the in the short slides um but yeah no the fact that there is that question at the end there's a lot of classic horror film in this movie you got people eating people right you got guy going crazy right this is is it all a dream or is it all in my head version you know And I think it's a this one earns it. What do you guys think of the I guess it's like a montage, but the ending of like, you know, because we kind of just leave Mary's fate up in the air. And then we're cutting to like all these spaces that it's like her old neighborhood that that it's copied. And then we finally see the the copy of her, which was inevitable. But that almost felt like some kind of version of.
01:33:24
Speaker
you know, like there's that montage at the end of, ah of, of Halloween, you know, where it's like Michael Myers is gone and then you hear Loomis like being like, he could be anywhere. And then you're just showing all these different, you know, places, you know, and then, and then boom, credits. I mean, I love how abrupt Carpenter endings are, which is like movies over by, but like, you know, it did have a little bit of, of that,
01:33:48
Speaker
energy of like, yeah, we're going to show you these spaces that it's recreated. There's the other Mary. Now go back out into the dead mall that you came in to see this. thing like I saw it it um ah in about the the of AMC. I saw it that was inside of the mall. So it was interesting to go back out and like, I'm in the back rooms now. This was my favorite, like, if there was like a favorite moment in the movie, it was these like sequence of shots.
01:34:12
Speaker
um And I could have used more of that just throughout, like in between scenes, you could have had some more of this ambience. Because ah another one of my criticisms with the movie is I feel like it would have been more effective, like scenes that are trying to build tension. If there had been more of a focus on sound design and and music, I feel like both of those were pretty like, they were there, but they weren't like front and center. You know what i mean?
01:34:36
Speaker
And I feel like certain ambient shots like that could have been a place to like sell moments like that more. But I did love these like two shots there. I love the one of the telephone poles that are slowly going into the... With the missing pictures of of ah Kat and her boyfriend. Yeah.
01:34:53
Speaker
yeah love i Yeah. I almost did want Clark to come back after they're gone to like so that he had to like come up with a lie to because I wasn't sure of like where they were going before we cut away and went back to Mary of like, oh, is he going to like come out and kind of just keep feeding people into the bed, like trying to convince other people like to to to come in? I mean, he kind of does with like bring Mary in. um ah But like, yeah, I almost wanted to see some kind of reckoning of like he did directly murder them, but he's responsible for their deaths.
01:35:31
Speaker
I would love it if like, because we can we know we we're going to get sequels of this, right? But like, I would love it if we got like the diminishing returns version of this franchise where it's just Ejiofor coming back every time. And he's like the main villain. And he's like this. I've been dead the whole time, but I'm back for whatever reason. And you thought I was dead. He has an eye patch because the pirates have eye patches. hmm.
01:35:55
Speaker
but By the way, I just love the branding of his store. And I like they call it the incongruity for sure. But the fact that he calls it Ottoman Empire because he loves the like reference of Ottomans, you know. Right. But then has went with this pirate theme, even though like Ottomans are obviously Turkish. and There's no like historical you connection to pirates. I just love that. That's just a. And also the fact that the pirate has two swords. Did you guys notice that on the sign? He's got like two different yeah blades for whatever reason. I like that. That reads of mistake to me, you know, so like that works really well. And then with this, ah this ending, right, where we're seeing all of these different things back and forth. I don't want to keep on bringing up the series. I feel like I brought up the series too much on this. but No, I mean, that's the perspective we need for it. Yeah. Yeah. There is what one of the shorts in the series is like a one minute long short where it's just ah missing persons flyers, right? And it's to it's meant to convey the growing missing person epidemic in America, right? And very similar to what you're saying in Braze of Shadows, the idea of just relying on the music and and just like putting it on there. And actually it goes back to the beginning of the film too, right? The way that the hand is put into the pavement.
01:37:10
Speaker
And the way that the bulldozer comes above their head, these silent moments where it's just the exposition kind of plays out in this way. um Parsons has done it, you know, he usually reserves it for these short second sections. But honestly, I could watch like a five minute stretch of movie that feels like this. yeah A 30 minute stretch, even if I wanted to get greedy. Right. So he's got it in his back pocket, but it's just like he hasn't, you know, refined it just yet, you know. Yeah, because all I need, like, it it's almost like a bonus that this gave me, like, interesting characters. Because I was like, I just need imagery and in ah a vibe, you know? but but But the fact that there are characters that meet, you know, like, ironic fates or fates that are, you know, tied to, like, you know, their sordid past or or whatever. Like, it does... it does
01:37:59
Speaker
like it It is additive and kind of gives this, you know, ah I feel like this does deserve the official Twilight Zone Cinema stamp of of approval. Like like that that we're we're we're we're in that zone. I mean, you know, butd Rod Serling would love, RIP Rod Serling would love the background. Hey. so For something to be Twilight Zone-esque doesn't mean it has to be perfect, right? Not every episode of the Twilight Zone was perfect, right? A lot of work. Especially that season with one-hour episodes. a lot of those like, tighten that up.
01:38:35
Speaker
Yeah. um But but ah yeah I think you're hitting the nail on the head that this is definitely within that Serling morality tale ah worldview. and And then also, like, I think I briefly brought him up, but this does this does feel like it could have been made by Richard Kelly in the sense that a lot of this is about, like,
01:38:54
Speaker
quantum physics about like you know a science-y mechanic thing that's above everything it would have been you know probably closer to the series if it was like directed by Richard Kelly or whatever um but at the same time i think that there are shades of Kelly in Parsons and also in Jane Schoenberg which is another reason why I think they would get along um but um Also, like i think that um it's wonderful because people are already going on Twitter, going finding reasons to be like, this is why it's bad or this is why it's good. I just like that there's a horror film that's not obsessed with you know the baseline thrills, that this is so much about atmosphere, dread, and impressionist impressionism, you know like just kind of taking what you get from it.
Cultural and Industry Impact of 'Backrooms'
01:39:41
Speaker
The fact that that has wide appeal right now tells me that we're heading in a very healthy direction, just broadly speaking. Yeah, because this is ultimately like, ah i mean, yes, there there are more methodically paced horror movies, but I would say by a lot of modern standards, this is a slow burn horror in terms like it does it does take its time to set up where we're going, even if we know where kind of where where're where that is. But like in the fact that my audience, at least like it does help that I went to like an earlier showing during afternoon. I feel like especially with the kind of youthful audience coming out for this, you're rolling the dice if you go late at night or like on the weekend at night. You might get some rowdy kids. but But for me, during my showing, people were quiet. There were a little like comments to, you know, the next person they they were with during stuff. But the fact that people were willing to take that ride of like, all right, you're setting this up. Let's see where we're going. Like we were all along for the ride. And I think... Like you said, that that's a healthy indication. Yeah, I had a... I think that... Go ahead In my screening, there was like diagonally right to me a group of teenagers and a man did get up.
01:40:49
Speaker
This was Thursday night. On the row in front of them did get up and walk like four seats over and leaned over somebody to tell these people, to like these kids to like be quiet. This was like five minutes in the movie he could tell like this is going to be a problem and he was going to like stop this like before it got out of hand and then they were quiet the rest of the movie and i thought that was really funny that guy is a hero i do it yeah yeah you you have to do it early or else they will just keep going like i've had several bad experiences like that it's like yeah someone needed to tell them to shut up and they did so that's good I've had to be that guy. I i have done that exactly. Right. So like when I see them, you know, they're a hero. But then also it's like be the change you want to see in the world. You know what I mean? um Well, it's easy to say you're Canadian. America, there's 50 percent chance the person has a gun. No, you're right. You're right. No, you're 100% right. I'm speaking from a privileged perspective. um When it comes to ah my ah a screening experience, packed house, um everybody was super engaged. I was sitting on the aisle, right? There was like two seats on the aisle for each row, right? And the way the way that it it worked out was that I was sitting on the aisle and then there was a guy beside me. And that guy was like maybe like a 16 year old kid.
01:42:08
Speaker
Right. And then behind me was like his sister and her friend who had taken him to see the movie. Right. So he he was a fan of the franchise and he was like locked in. And it was funny to just like, you know, just every once in a while I like notice him like leaning over. or whatever. And then like behind me, like the sister and her friend knew what the back rooms was as well. And I was getting their color color commentary the entire time. Like they saw the ah backwards stop sign. I'm like, Oh, that's scary. You know? And like, it was very interesting just to see because it it showed me that there was this, like, it wasn't just like aesthetic behind what was scaring these people. It's like they understood why it was scary. They understood how these places were, not in a grander lore sense, but you could tell that this was connecting with them.
01:42:56
Speaker
and and And I think that that's special. You know what i mean? Mm-hmm. No, and I do think that this movie is kind of special in that sense. I don't think it's... Like, we've we've said countless times, it's not perfect, but, like, there's a lot about it that, like, is pretty promising.
01:43:11
Speaker
and And I'm excited for more. I'm definitely excited for more. i Like, yeah, i I think... I think it's promising that people are having that reaction because like despite some people's protests of like, would the back rooms be better if there wasn't a scary monster? To me, this is like more cake, you know, because, you know, like, yeah, I love a scary monster and it actually represents something, you know, like for the character and like what the movie is trying to say.
01:43:35
Speaker
But then also there are, ah you know, kind of like other unsettling elements like that, that, that stop sign that you meant mentioned, like where where it's like just off enough to like leave you feeling unsettled. Like the, the movie is giving it to you on multiple levels. So like, or it can just show you a Christmas tree in a dark room and that's, you're fucking freaked out. You can feel everyone's buttholes in the theater clench. You're like, yeah, this is great.
01:44:00
Speaker
just Just like ah if you guys have ever been to like the, you know, Disney World, there's like a Bugs Life attraction there. Have guys been to that? You guys know what I'm talking about? Yeah. There's that moment where like the bugs go on your butt, you know? And yeah, that's what's happening during that sequence.
01:44:17
Speaker
Oh, that that was something. They had like the seats that move, D-Box. Do you guys have that in America, by the way? D-Box, you know what talking about? Is that like 4DX? We have 4DX here where like it'll like be like interactive, ah like shake when something action's happening or if there's like yeah it might squirt you with something. So so we have 4DX as well, but then we just have like a separate section of seats in our premium theaters that are in between IMAX and the regular screens called D-Box, which is essentially just like, you know, the best three rows, the the three rows at the back.
01:44:52
Speaker
They have D-Box seats, which are just the motors in the 40X theaters. So they just move around to the action. I think that Backrooms would be a great movie to watch D-Box in. And for the record, the last movie I watched D-Box in was Madame Webb. Oh, so you feel it when she like crashes an ambulance into the people. Better.
01:45:10
Speaker
You feel it when she's in the wheelchair at the end of the movie. Ha ha! that That was one of those, like, I was so glad I had chosen that. You know what I mean? like I was like, i couldt I could have seen this movie anyway, but I chose to see it this way. And that was my reward, you know? Imagine Dakota Johnson in the back rooms. Sounds good.
01:45:32
Speaker
it's Yeah. You're getting me hot and bothered. Just thinking about it, you know. Calvin Klein's writing up the check right now. We've got to get everybody in the back room. That's a funny thing, too. is like ah Today I saw that like McDonald's had posted like a two-minute short of like the back rooms with their stuff. And I'm like, this is going to only grow blow up. This is going to become like a Halloween. This is going to become like a Nightmare on Elm Street kind of thing. where This movie... If if it if it makes as as much money as it is, it is it's going to make three times the amount of money as Purge did, right? And Purge became like a scourge for a decade, right? So like whatever that was, this is three times that. This is this is something that's generational, really. yeah in terms of like what this means to us. So I think that not even us, like to even people younger, right? So I think it's really interesting to be at that, you know, inflection point of something that really does matter. And to see where that allows Parsons to go as an artist, because like we've said, like...
01:46:35
Speaker
He ah if he was held back on certain elements after the success of this, no one can tell him shit. Right. Like, I mean, yeah, he's still young as hell, but he's more than proven himself in terms of like money's talk. So like, you know, like, I think they're just going to be like, oh, OK, he knows what he's doing. Right. Let's just fucking let him go.
01:46:55
Speaker
I saw I think I think it was. said that it was the third biggest Thursday for a horror movie ever behind just the two It movies. It won in chapter chapter one and chapter two, which is pretty crazy. Which is insane.
01:47:06
Speaker
yeah Like if you know how well those movies performed, right? Those are some of the best performing R-rated movies of all time, right? Like it's the It movies and the Deadpool movies and that's It, right? So it's shocking that a debut film made for $10 million dollars was able to rake in that cash. And, you know, we talk shit about like the, the lore that was invented by the fandom or whatever, but like the success of this film is kind of on them too, because like that was born from like TikTok shorts and stuff. That's like what the sisters behind me knew, you know, more than the guy beside me. Right. And it's, it's speaking to two different audiences in that sense right um and and and the fact that it's being able to brought under under that one umbrella it's just this a one-of-a-kind phenomenon and and i think that that's really interesting like it's interesting and i'm not too cynical about this you know at all um and yeah um Yeah, because I've seen the sentiment of like, oh, well, so this is There's so much more hype behind this than a new Spielberg coming out. And I'm like, well, those are those are different things. And also, he hasn't been ah like the same kind of box office draw for a while. I mean, yes, COVID and other factors play a part. But like horror is always, you know, overperformed ah over stuff like... I mean, this is like over, overperforming. But like, you know, like... I i don't i don't see those things at odds with each other. Like, I ah am excited for a Disclosure Day. i wish just called Disclosure, although I guess they don't want to be associated with other movies called that. I don't know.
01:48:42
Speaker
But yeah. i Or the DJ duo. Yeah. but But yeah, I can love both. And I i think that it's... its six i'm I've been pro YouTube filmmakers. Like, I never really got the argument against that. Because it's like, that's what better training ground to... Like, you learn by doing it. So, like, that's an ecosystem where you can, you know, make shorts and then put them out. Yeah, people...
01:49:10
Speaker
have sort of like yeah but they're making it with the mindset of just its content but it's like okay well you start with content and then you go to make your way to film you know like that you build you build off of that mean west uh you know like and people people start in all different places uh you know like west craven did poor not that that not to blow that because that was also an era when porn was like ma actually like artistic more it' so yeah George Romero did political ads in industrial films, right?
01:49:38
Speaker
Like, the what's what's interesting about this, you know, anti-YouTuber thing is that it's strictly on Twitter. And it's strictly from people who are looking to try to control the conversations around kind of films. It's the same people every single time. Like, one of these days, we'll just say these people's names ah straight out, you know, because the reality is is that some of these people are just...
01:50:03
Speaker
trying to hold back progress is the way I'll phrase it. It's like, like reality is, is that it has like what your profession is to become a filmmaker should not be the thing that has somebody looking down upon you. I would never look down upon, you know, a plumber who decided to make a movie, you know? I'd just be glad that the plumber made a movie, you know? And the fact that they've got experience within a fictional storytelling medium should be something that I would be rewarding.
01:50:29
Speaker
And beyond that too, we've already had YouTuber success stories coming from people like Markiplier. a Let's Play gamer, you know? and And Chris Stuckman, not a filmmaker, but a film critic, right? So it's like, why are we getting upset about, you know, um a guy who has spent his entire, you know, public-facing life making fictional material for people to enjoy? Same goes with Curry Barker, right? And rather than, you know, anybody else. I don't know. I just think that this obsession with profession is something that people only hold as a superficial force in an argument. It's a thought-terminating argument, and I wish people would leave it in the past. They're trying to be Pauline Kael, but they don't have the sauce. Yeah. yeah And like... I'm sorry.
01:51:13
Speaker
No, no, no. It was necessary. Like, that's where I wanted to go for a long time. And for like past five years, I've used YouTube as like a justification of slowly building like a little mini studio to facilitate something like that. Like I'll use this video to justify buying a camera.
01:51:32
Speaker
I'll use this video to justify buying lights and everything like that. And I've slowly like built like a whole like crew that I can just run myself. You know what i mean? Like, um, and so like, like it's, and making videos is different than like,
01:51:47
Speaker
what you would need going into film. Like the closest to like a movie I would say that I've made so far is my video on ah Joanne Denton, where I went back to my hometown and like interviewed her. And like, that was more like a traditional doc than anything I've ever done before. And that's when I bought my camera. um But it does like, even just making videos gives you like experience. And it's like, I think completely legitimate. You know what mean? Right. exist know Because what you just described was like documentary filmmaking. So like that's like, you know, like teaching you like what's needed for that. Like that's still yeah storytelling. well Well, actually, like this is a great point that you're bringing up, Doug, because like, you know, Defunctland brought this up in some of the videos that he's made as well. Right. Where it's like video essays exist within a very peculiar space where they're taking over what documentaries were.
01:52:34
Speaker
Right. Just, you know, with deducted pay and even smaller crews. Right. And they're hyper niche, but it's those niches exist because, you know, somebody is like, I want to watch a movie about ah whatever Horvath, Courage the Cowardly Dog, I've said before, you know, you video on that. Right. So, say you know, somebody wants to watch that. They're going to find that. Right. um But at the same time, um you know, people are getting mad at YouTube.
01:52:59
Speaker
Right. ah Sorry, YouTube filmmakers um or people who use YouTube to find prominence. Right. But if they want to get upset at those individuals who are able to use those tools to maintain that prominence or to secure that prominence or to even have like a, you know, lifestyle secured through it, get mad at YouTube.
01:53:17
Speaker
You know, get mad at the people who created the infrastructure. Because I've seen people be like, oh, you you shouldn't have to, you know, go on YouTube to make this thing and circumvent the system. And I'm like, what do you want them to do? Go back to film festivals.
01:53:28
Speaker
Was that a fair like way of people to get their things seen? I don't think so. You know, it's like harder than ever to break in. So like anyone can use like like the fact that. Like a regular person who's not like related to someone can still find a way to get their stuff seen and then ultimately make a movie off that that should be encouraged. Right. Why why why are we getting upset about like somebody from anywhere being able to make it? You know, like Curry Barker was from Alabama.
01:53:59
Speaker
Right. Like, i think that's a good thing. Why are we like it's just so bizarre that we have to have this argument every time, you know, because every time that we have these arguments, it's because it's the same people who are having these hangups who are just essentially like pushing it forward. And it's like it's annoying.
01:54:18
Speaker
It's done. It's lame. You know, i feel like people have moved past it. Even yeah there's there's mentally speaking. They're stuck in the past like Clark. They're they're in the back rooms of their own design. Again, similar to how the weapons as transphobic people were very similar to Aunt Gladys. Maybe you're right, Doug.
01:54:37
Speaker
Maybe you're right. In Praise the Shadows, we just mentioned Courage the Cowardly Dog. Have you been have you heard of or watched the the show on Apple, ah Widow's Bay? Because some people have called it live action Courage the Cowardly Dog. like And I think there is a little bit of that in there.
01:54:56
Speaker
No, it's called Widow's Bay. Yeah. So it's Matthew Rhys from the Americans. He's like the mayor of this like seaside town that kind of has like a little Stephen King vibes. But like most of the episodes are kind of like monster of the week where there'll be like some superstition or like. like, yeah you know, ah folk fable that then is real and that the mayor who's skeptical ah has has to deal with, you know, because he's of the mind of like, no, there's no no like curse on the island or nothing weird here. And then him having to like confront ghosts or a sea hag. And then him, he does such a good job of that courage to cowardly dog energy of like, this is the scariest guy of all all time. Like yeah he's he's doing like Charlie Chaplin- style mugging in some scenes when like how expressive he is and when he plays like shocked and stuff. It is, it's pretty great stuff. No, yeah I've not heard of that. i I'm going to make a note of that right now because I want to check that out. I'm really loving it. It's one of my favorite shows of of the year. It's like the creator of it. She's the Katie Dippold. She did that famous Babadook tweet where she went to the like Halloween dinner party. Oh, yeah. Realize it wasn't a costume thing. So that's that's her show. Okay, i love that. That's very funny. Well, she also wrote the Lady Ghostbusters movie that everyone hated, but I maintain is way better than the shit that came after it. The like legacy sequel Ghostbusters. I've not seen any of the modern Ghostbusters stuff. I've not seen that one or the two new ones they did ah after that. um I love the original, but never seen check those out. The original for me, like I'm weird because like I like I feel like the biggest fan base that's keeping that series going are like 80s kids. I i was a 90s kid, but Ghostbusters was like my Star Wars in terms of like I had so many more Ghostbusters.
01:56:48
Speaker
toys and stuff like that. Maybe just because I was like, well, that's like set in the real world, you know, like they're in New York. Like i I could be a Ghostbuster. I can't be Luke Skywalker. He's in fucking space. You know, like I could be Bill Murray and neg a woman until she loves me. Like that's a table. Well, we saw Ghostbusters too. that Even that didn't work. But the the ah one one thing I was going to say about that, Doug, is like yeah I've been podcasting with you for a while. I would love to like go through every episode that we've done. And I want to see the number of episodes that you brought up Ghostbusters versus the episodes you've not brought up Ghostbusters versus. Like I would wager to guess that like 75%, like at some point, you know, and I'm not complaining because like Ghostbusters, they've got legacy, you know, they they've got something. Yeah. um Yeah. Yeah. I'm not calling you out. I'm just saying. it No, I mean, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll cop to it. Yeah. I mean, they have that legacy and you could see the DNA of it and other stuff, but it just is a shame that they've tarnished their, like, cause to me it's the franchise is cannibalized itself. It is that like, uh, you know, Ouroboros thing of like, it's just force feeding nostalgia and regurgitating it. And it it's it's ah it's a shame that they couldn't figure out It's like either just end it or you could just do something new with it. You don't have to keep bringing back Bill Murray, who doesn't want to be there to show up for a few minutes and be like, hey, I'm contractually obligated. Or, you know, like it that they that doesn't need to you could just you could set it somewhere like go new characters in a new city that do ghostbusting stuff. Or you could do a low budget TV show where it's just a monster of the week thing. Like do something else. i I can't believe I've never told you this before, Doug, but in Praise the Shadows, you're here for a great moment. You know, this so this is a great moment for you to witness. So, Doug, ah when I when I was younger. Right. Because like personally, I don't have a lot of, you know, like obsessions with franchises. Like I would say like where where that comes up in disagreeing. So I say like Twilight Zone, Godzilla, you know, like I love those to unreasonable degrees. Just the concept films.
01:58:59
Speaker
Yeah, fair, fair, fair. yeah But I challenged myself at one point in my life. I was like, um if I were to take a franchise and if I were to make my own version of the franchise, what would I make? Right. And I ended up choosing Ghostbusters and I have a full treatment for a Ghostbusters reboot um under my belt. Like I fully wrote it.
01:59:20
Speaker
I was like, this is my idea of what to do with the Ghostbusters. I'll I'm not going to go through it now because that would be lame and I'm not going to do it on mic or whatever. But just so you know, Doug, like i have I've sat down and I've plotted out my idea of what the perfect Ghostbusters movie would be and I just did it for fun.
01:59:38
Speaker
obviously i want i want because cause I was like, what am I going to come up with? Robocop movie? Robocop's perfect. you know i was like, I need to find something that like I see problems in. And I saw problems in Ghostbusters and I was like, I'm going write my own Ghostbusters. so that I can't believe I haven't told you this something until this time. I'm surprised you You've hidden it from me because now I'm like, off mic, we need to talk. It will just change the names enough to make it legally distinct. And then, you know, now we then then we just have something to to pitch.
02:00:08
Speaker
Ironically enough, has a lot to do with the idea that I had already come up with. But yeah, it's like, I think it's a good idea. But like, that's blowing smoke my own ass. But you know what I mean? No, I mean, especially where the franchise is now, like I'm almost certainly it's better were kidding Hey, if there's anything that'll help, there's no ah flashbacks or nostalgic characters anything like that. It's a brand new take, you know, like it's ah it's a new.
02:00:34
Speaker
Where's Slimer? I'm not showing up with Slimers, sir. there There was no mention of Slimer from my recollection of what I did. hey don't think i Did you ever see the Max Landis ah pitch where he is like going over like some opening of ah of a cult sacrificing an overweight man and then that ends up being Slimer? Like like he he gives an origin for Slimer.
02:01:00
Speaker
like obviously fuck man max lane but i love the way his brain works i because i because it's so like transparent you know right it's so shallow the moment yeah the moment you start to hear his pitches or whatever you're just like i'd stop i know where stop come on man like that's that's what it's like and you saying that that's that's the same reaction i had but because i know his tricks i was laughing There's like a nightmare situation I had like two years ago. was maybe a year ago, maybe two. don't remember. Where someone had commented frequently on my videos to the point that like there were long comments to where they stuck in my mind. And I didn't realize this was over the course of like three years. And I didn't realize that it was Max Landis the whole time because I didn't know his YouTube channel. And he was like watching like all of them. So was he like commenting thoughtful things? Was he like, yeah, yeah. Like, Oh, that's so, that's so funny. That is. Yeah, absolutely. I had no idea that it was him because it was like he has a YouTube channel. I didn't recognize the name of it, though. Was it like Up To My Knees or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I stayed following him after the cancellation for a while because his post-cancellation was really funny in the sense that he kept on trying to do Superman fan films, right? So I liked getting the notification every once a while where it's like, Here is an hour and a half fan film of Superman with a thousand views. I just really liked getting that notification every once in while just to be like, that's what he's been up to. But there was also, was following him because of that, but then he did an episode with Breddy Stenellis on his podcast.
02:02:40
Speaker
And like do you guys know much about Breddy Stenellis? Have you ever reached into that side of- Yeah, so no ah so you're nodding, you know. So it's like he he had Max Landis on and he was like, so tell me about everything, you know? It was like one of those, you know, like tell me about how it was everybody else's fault, you know? um and and the And the term that Max Landis kept using, and it made my skin crawl every time he said it, it was um my public shaming. ah my my My public shaming. That makes it sound like he has a humiliation kink.
02:03:14
Speaker
Yeah. What a Captain Clark you are, you know, where it's just like, oh, it's every everyone else, you know, everyone else, you know, i like it's this movie. Backrooms is about cancel culture. Yeah. Clark's just like, oh, the woke mob kicked me out of my house. You know, you know I really thought it was you fitting when Clark was watching Bill Maher before the ah power.
02:03:37
Speaker
yeah people were talking about anachronisms in the movie. It was weird that he was watching not Bill Maher's earlier show, but but yeah he was watching watching realtime current episodes of real time. He was watching the podcast.
02:03:50
Speaker
He's watching Bill Maher talk. Oh, yeah. No, no, that's better. That's better. it's It's just those fucking weird camera angles. Those are back rooms. Club Random is the back room. love that? Because he doesn't want to be doing it. It seems like he's like near suicidal every clip I've seen shared on my timeline. and and then the guest no no no is like someone who's no clip there. No, no, you've got it the other way around. it's the other he wants to be there too much. he You know that's his basement? He shoots that in his basement. That's not surprising. so so it's like what he did, what he did, i shit you not. So what he did was his basement is wired up with a bunch of cameras. And the whole concept of Club Random is the people can't see the cameras, right? He wants it to kind of feel like, oh, it's hangout, you know, you know, you know, you know, they're there, you know, he's he's rigged his basement with a bunch of cameras, not to, you know, be a weird sex creep, which is already weird, you know?
02:04:44
Speaker
he wants to shoot a podcast with like the worst chemistry ever. Like that's better for sure. You know, but like, that's still weird. You know, he's still weird that he did it that way, you know, and having like the Hawk to girl on, you know, like what what's his MO with that? Well, that's the part where I'm like, does he even want to do, even if he really wants to be there, but it's like the choice of guests. You feel like that though, they're almost like court mandated sometimes where it's like,
02:05:11
Speaker
I get I I understand that he he probably really wants to have Woody Allen on but like the hawk to a girl or like other viral people I'm like there's no way that he gives a shit well so something about Bill Maher's lore I can say just from my own knowledge is the sense that like the word in Hollywood was that he was like like you know a massive swinger you know going to sex parties you know and it was the word on the street was that he had a big dick like a really big one right And like that, that cause, that's like a lot of the reason why he's got that whole like, oh, but but who you know, like swag, swag, swag. He's, he's acting like really machismo. Right. But then when you think about his like actual world beliefs, it's really CUNY and pathetic. Right. Yeah. um That's the ultimate in Krongerudy with Bill Maher. And then what makes all of this stuff worse? All that things that I just said before. Right. That's him younger. Right. Like he's what? Late 60s. early 70s now, right? he's He's creepy old man territory because he's still not changed the way that he's behaved, you know? Now he seems like, you know, just the pervy uncle that you're like, or like the pervy grandfather, the pervy whoever, you're just like, get away, you know? Who keeps insisting he's cool because he smokes weed. And I'm like, yeah, i I like weed, but shut up. Yeah, exactly. That setup you described where he just has the cameras and the guests don't know they're there. ah Have you heard of or seen any of Lil Dicky's podcast with with Benny Blanco where it's like...
02:06:41
Speaker
edited like it's like a 90s sitcom and it's just the cameras in their living room and i i only watched some of it because they had Barry Keoghan on and I was just i was just curious but just to see what that was like and it was like he was kind of getting emotional and really it was like a weird disparity because like the way it's edited has that artificial sitcom feel but then it just didn't seem staged at all in terms of like him Barry opening up about like and kind of not being able to handle some of the social media reaction to like what well people just calling you ugly or just the whole thing where I guess it's got started as a rumor that he like cheated on Sabrina Carpenter and that that that that kind of just became the narrative when that wasn't really the case. ah It seems like someone just straight up just just made up made that up. Cause I remember hearing that and I'd like, and it reported as fact that that is what what happened. I was like, Oh, okay. That, that wasn't the case. I'll be honest with you, Doug. I'm not going to watch ah ah podcast with a little dicky. I'm not telling you to watch it. personal I watched it. So you don't have to. ah
02:07:54
Speaker
What actually, when you said Little Dicky, the one little synopsis in my brain that fired was, did you ever watch his XXL freshman cypher rap? Do you ever watch those? guys watch those? No. talking about? guys know what I'm talking about? I saw him once. My friend group went like 10 years ago to one of his shows. That's my only connection it. You watched Little Dicky live?
02:08:19
Speaker
Hell yeah. Yeah, I did. did. That's hilarious. Yeah, my friends were going and they asked me if I wanted to go. That's the only thing. That's awesome. My only connection to them, though. Oh, that's so funny. I can't talk shit because I went to Macklemore. But the reason bring to...
02:08:38
Speaker
The XXL Freshman. so You guys don't know what this is. I'm shocked. I'm going fill you in. ah So ah every year, ah this magazine puts out like a cipher, right? Or multiple ciphers where they get like a group of 12 of the newest rappers coming up, right? And they're like, oh, here's...
02:08:57
Speaker
just freestyle, right? And ah if you look at their track record, like a lot of the biggest rappers will go on there as they're, you know, coming up. Like Kendrick Lamar was on there. Mac Miller was on there. Like like big, big, big, big names, right? um But Lil Dicky did one. Right. And little Dickie did one with ah Anderson pack and a designer.
02:09:20
Speaker
you, do you guys know who those people are? Yeah. Yeah. I'm just looking at the cover of that, that one. And it's like the people they have listed as like, yeah, Anderson pack designer, 21 Savage, Kodak black, Denzel Curry, little Yachty. Like there'd be like, these are his peers. Yeah.
02:09:38
Speaker
Yeah, no. And then the the craziest part was that Little Dicky's the best one on his cipher. Like, he he is he is really good in comparison to everybody else on there. His freestyle's pretty fun, like what I've seen when he does it. Like, yeah, know.
02:09:52
Speaker
I'm just an Anderson.Paak fan. I'm a little butthurt. No. He just hadn't done enough cocaine with Bruno Mars yet. He hadn't really fully unlocked that that part. um I realize it's getting late. Are we are we keeping you in Brace of Shadows? Like, I don't want to... like Oh, no, no. I was just sending an update text, but no, not at all. No, no, no. I just saw the time. We've been recording for a long period of time, so I just didn't mean to, you know, like, I was just like, oh, no. But um we can keep going. We're so far away from the back rooms. Is there anything else we want to talk about the back rooms? Oh, no. I just, I'm really excited about the, I like the, I really like the movie itself, but I'm excited about like where it's indicating that that we're going and just, you know, I said before when we talked about, i think Kokum with like, the like yeah, it's kind of felt like the the the starter pistol of like, oh, movies are coming out now that I'm actually like, you give a shit about but this does feel like because the fact that this and Obsession are overtaking Mandalorian and Grogu like we were talking about dead franchises that cannibalize themselves I mean Star Wars is like kind of ground zero for that and I'm you know I guess maybe the the child part of me that's deep down inside there's maybe tip but I'm mostly glad that like it's like no there's a clear message being sent of like fucking we're over this Fuck you, old man.
02:11:17
Speaker
but But it's also like a a situation where weve weve we've been stuck in this drought, or not even drought, I guess abundance, of just like constant reboot, remake, and then like the constant mining of ah Boomer and Gen X nostalgia. We've gotten to the point where, you know, because when Star Wars came out, right, it was reminiscent of things of the past. It was yeah referencing Flash Gordon and all that. But ah what made it interesting was that it was a story of its time.
02:11:45
Speaker
You know, it was their own mythology. It was their new fantasy. Right. And there isn't anything like that on film right now for the Zoomers or even for the Millennials or anyone else. Right. Yeah. It's just been constantly rebooting the same things over and over again. And like,
02:12:00
Speaker
the Like when you look at the history of films within the decade by decade thing, right? Like you look at all of the different films that make the decades, right? And you look at the 2010s and it's just the reboots and the remix, right? there's There's like beyond Christopher Nolan films or like one-offs, right? It's just like completely dominated by this like regurgitation.
02:12:21
Speaker
And what I like about Backrooms is not only is the film with itself a repudiation of that, but then like stuff like this, And then like the Minecraft movie and the Mario movie, I do think spells like a shift away from a different side of storytelling. I don't like think that Minecraft and Mario are good. I don't think that. they're spelling a good side of filmmaking, but I think that it's representative of this style of ah what what people are looking for in their entertainment shifting. And then the back rooms is like the best example of that, right? the The slow pace in this is something that you would hope for
02:12:59
Speaker
in a horror film in the 80s. Right. Like yeah in the 80s, somebody would watch something that felt like this and be like, I wish it felt like this back in the 60s, you know? Like, like so I don't know. there's There's so much about this to appreciate. As a complete counterpoint to all of that, have you seen that some of the critics' advanced reviews are trying to to make gaslight me and make us believe that the He-Man movie is is good? I saw one crit compared to, I saw the TV glow.
02:13:27
Speaker
of like that it's about ah that like in terms of like but for masculinity I guess in terms of like vi of finding your identity as a man ah so yeah that's that that's where we'll leave that thought is there anything else that you guys wanted to bring up ah I hardly recommend uh i i've been seeing people recommend like other uh you know horror thing lesser known horror are things that maybe me have adjacent vibes like because i am into you know the whole liminal uh space thing but i would say if you like creepypastas turn horror things i channel zero i've i've invoked it earlier this episode and many other times I don't know. I'm kind tempted to do a rewatch and maybe like do some coverage. I mean, the most direct one that I say i would think is most similar to Backrooms this season to No End House. Yeah. And that that's my Carol Lynch. That's my favorite season, mostly because of that performance and and him in it. ah
02:14:25
Speaker
ah Some people say three, I mean, right and Rutger Hauer is great and that three is great. But yeah, two two is definitely where it's at for me. i i I wouldn't be surprised if there's something in the future where we do that because I, yeah, i would I'd really want to talk about that. I saw him i loved in person last year and got so excited. it was ah in New York at the ah the Bobby Darin musical. It's set up like a club where like the floor is a club and then like the sides are like bleachers. And I was on one side of the bleachers and I realized that sitting directly across from me, like, because the stage is like to the left and bottom. So you're looking like down like that way. And but directly across from me was John Carroll Lynch the entire show. Fantastic.
02:15:07
Speaker
hilarious that's hilarious that's yeah that's awesome and i had like an inverse reaction when you brought up bobby darren because like in my mind i i always think about the bobby darren biopic that spacey made uh so like i was just like oh be on the sea and i was thinking about the the sequences in that film um if we're talking about other uh things that this film evoked or things that you kind of like could sink into um there's definitely like a good spread of args you could sink into if you like this but honestly people should just watch the oldest view and and you guys haven't seen the oldest view so you you guys should watch the oldest view I think it's better than this movie. I think it's like his it's probably his best artistic statement.
02:15:52
Speaker
and And there are direct sequences in this film that are recreations from The Oldest View. oh cool. um So like like this is a movie that like is a leveling up, but The Oldest View was like narratively more so in line with what he seems to be drawn to.
02:16:08
Speaker
um And then maybe if there's other stuff that's like, because actually like I'll go away from the recommendations. I'll go into a different conversation. So like people have been talking about how this movie is like unique, right? Like all the idea of like an online folklore that's been created and nothing. I think this is just the modernization of the urban legend. i Absolutely. I don't think that the back. Yeah. I don't think that the back rooms is anything entirely new. I think that this movie is just this generation's version of like Black Christmas or When a Stranger Calls. Yeah. yeah and And when people talk about the new wave in horror, that's what the pull quote they'll put in the history books. I feel like that's the accurate way of looking at this. Not, you know, that this is Halloween, that this is, you know, Friday the 13th. This is Black Christmas. This is, you know. And I extend the same thing to obsession too. i don't think obsession is like, you know, that kind of realm. I think it's like, you know, foundational. I think we're, we're about to hit the mat mass critical event very soon. But they're laying the foundation now, like for what is going to hopefully be like the next stage. Oh, when the Poppy's Playtime movie hits, you know, game over, you know, like the only problem with the FNAF movie was that it wasn't good. They made a good movie there. If they made a good movie there, then it would have been game over for everybody. Right. That would have made more money than the Mario movie. i mean, because they still made a fuck ton of money with a shit movie. So it's like, yeah, imagine if it had been good. Yeah, exactly. ah Well, yeah, i I think. I think we've just about covered it. um
02:17:36
Speaker
In Praise of Shadows, do you have anything you want to plug? um Just ah my channel doing videos about once a month or so. ah It's just called In Praise of Shadows. Working on some other stuff at the moment, but that's so mostly most what I got going right now. Hell yeah. The videos I've seen are are really good, especially like I think we mentioned that curse cowardly dog. Thank you. appreciate it. That's really good. but Yeah. It just has to be said because we have you on again, like the fact that you have such long videos and they're so thoughtful, you know, like some people, they'll they'll make long videos and they'll just like, like people make the thing about Quentin reviews or whatever, right? Where just like, blah, blah, blah. I don't hate Quentin reviews. I think it's fine that he does that, right? But I like that you're reviews are so long but they're so thoughtful you know like you you don't leave any stone unturned in that sense and when I put on one of your stuff it's like that's my eating almost you know so like when when a youtuber can accomplish that I think that that's a good thing thank you so Always a pleasure. and Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. To echo what Tony was saying about your videos. Nowadays, everyone doesn't want to talk about it. got something to say, but nothing goes out. The nose is chipperish. And everybody, like they forgot about Praise the Shadows.
02:18:53
Speaker
Wow. Wow. I can't. Wow. that was, that was a, that was a deep pocket. That was a, that was a sure you can, what you just pulled out there. I think I, that's going to be a running bit for this podcast. Cause or like ah the other year i did, I did a, a forgot about cray intro for Craven. Yeah.
02:19:16
Speaker
Oh my God. I just like the idea of like Eminem just being associated with the Sony Spider-Verse movie. Because of the, I mean, Venom is better. The Venom music video is a better artistic statement than the Venom movie.
02:19:34
Speaker
Sure, sure. I'll give you that. Yeah. But Madame Webb is better than that. Well, but imagine if Eminem did a rap for Madame Webb and then Dakota Johnson's in the video. Yeah, yeah. shes She's just kind of like standing there just like in the coffin. Or in the chair. She's in the wheelchair because it's like set at the end of the movie. But she but she's kind of like pivoting it. like She's just like dancing, you know, maybe she's just like a circle. Yeah.
02:20:03
Speaker
Tony, do you have anything to plug? Actually, you know what? like What I will say is that I recorded another podcast this morning on the back rooms. So I'll plug that
Podcast Appearances and Upcoming Projects
02:20:14
Speaker
podcast. ah Movie Friends, ah Seth Vargas hosts that show. um i was on there. um I was definitely sleepy. And so so was he. But like there was something really funny and yeah deranged about that episode. So I definitely recommend people check that one out when it comes out. i think it'll be coming out on Monday. um And then um other episodes, I just recorded an episode on Two Cent Film Critic on ah special effects, the Larry Cohen film. Definitely check that episode out. um And obviously, ah Doug and I have been on Unsourced Wall Radio. We're going to be doing the last Children of the Corn movie this Sunday. So ah by the time that people are listening to this, you'll be able to listen to all of our reviews of the Children of the Corn movies. So if you want to hear us, um have an identity crisis and just know it's there.
02:21:05
Speaker
ah we We're finally at the end. I mean, yeah, i'm I'm looking forward to coming up for fresh air. I don't i don't want to spoil what we're doing now. i don't know if Elvis is officially announced, but but i'm I'm looking forward to that. Like, oh, some good food is coming. so stay tuned for that.
02:21:22
Speaker
Yeah. I wouldn't even say it's like great food. I would just say it's like, you know, at least food that I don't have to like, you know, look over my shoulder to make sure no one's judging me for eating, you know? It's like digestible, you know, like that's that's ah but at least what you want from a meal. Yeah, exactly.