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Euphoria Season 3 Episodes 1-5
66 Plays7 days ago
Is anyone watching this? Well Doug and Tony are for some reason
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Transcript
Reboot Discussion: 'Booth at the End'
00:00:01
Speaker
Uncle Juice is a good man. He's never gonna stop being the Juice. He could explain a lot, Juice. Just hear him out, Juice. He's right, Juice. Listen, Juice. Juice, Juice, this is your life.
00:00:12
Speaker
Juice, Juice, um, please, Juice. Juice, Juice was there for me every night. It's like he's not really the Juice anymore. I gotta get you dressed, Juice. Juice, Juice, I will.
00:00:23
Speaker
Juice,
Storytelling Methods: Telling vs. Showing
00:00:24
Speaker
Juice, Juice. Juice. Juice! Juice. They have some juice here.
00:00:37
Speaker
They have some fucking views. We're missing the good stuff. Yeah, we're going through great content. The most important resource in the world. That was like the straight getting the straight open back up has been such a priority because of the content that's being blocked. It's like not the resources and like, you know, the shipping channels. like the there's so much content.
00:00:59
Speaker
Did you guys notice that the moment that the straight was reopened, we started hearing from Lena Dunham again? You know, like it's not ah just a coincidence. these these are These things are tied. You know, we're materialists here on These Guys Got Juice. We had analyzed geopolitics and bring that into our film and television analysis.
Show Critiques: Geopolitics and Direction
00:01:18
Speaker
I think I heard she was part of the negotiations.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yes, that's right. They're big girls fans. Yes. Mm-hmm. There are some, you know, like, yeah, no, I have nothing to build off of that bit. That's just what I imagine. ah Sorry, I'm just going to just quit on this. I have nothing. You know, i just lost my train of thought. Yeah. Edit that out. Hopefully, who knows? But.
00:01:45
Speaker
No, that's fine. I didn't have, I don't really have bunch more girls material prepared other than i just really like that gif from the Patrick Wilson episode. And it's hard for me to see Patrick Wilson stuff. Like I was finally watching, I was like, you know what?
00:01:59
Speaker
i I don't really care about the non-James Wan insidious movies, but I was just like having trouble sleeping one i was like, let me see the one Patrick Wilson directed. but let' let's so let's so What's that all about? I didn't finish Not very good.
00:02:11
Speaker
It was pretty boring, but I just was like, oh, it'd be so funny if Lena Dunham showed up. Or if the demon showed up and like did the same. It was like, ah. The little Darth Maul creature. yeah Yeah, that'd be amazing.
00:02:26
Speaker
the the The thing that's funny for me, too, is like ah Patrick Wilson, even like back then, you know, like I've just always spiritually seen him as a 40 year old. He just always gives off that impression. So even in that show where they were supposed to be, you know, romantically involved, I'm like, he is too old for her. You know? Yeah. and And maybe he is, you know? I don't know what his actual age is. that Like, I know that ah part of that her character, you know, didn't, like, every new partner every week kind of thing. But at the same time, ah he's 52 now. So that means, like, 20 years ago, he would be in, like, early 30s.
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. Mm-hmm. maybe even late 20s. Wow. That's surprising. That is surprising. Yeah, he has just always looked like that.
Character Development: Hollywood Stereotypes and Narrative Coherence
00:03:12
Speaker
Wow. He is, he is like a maybe he's a vampire, you know, maybe like one day he's just going to disappear from society and then he'll reappear as another celebrity 20 years after that. Remember when he was Newby Rapace's father for a scene in Prometheus when she's like looking, and like David's looking at her dreams or something. And it's like, completely forgot that. Patrick Wilson's like, yeah, I'm your dad. Do we replace
00:03:40
Speaker
I'm a big fan of the original girl with the dragon tattoo. Like, he's like, and I don't know why they kept that line in, it but I'm glad Ridley Scott did it. He's an appreciator, appreciator of foreign arts, you know, watches films from all backgrounds. um Yeah, no, Newby Rapace,
00:04:01
Speaker
I feel like we kind of lost an ingredient there. You know, she's a good and talent, you know, i wish that she was still, I think they just couldn't figure out how to slot her into American stuff. And then it just, they kind of just gave up.
00:04:14
Speaker
Uh, yeah. Cause I'm like looking at her IMDB. I mean, Lamb wasn't that long ago, but like in terms like bigger stuff, like they stopped trying with other than like, oh, yeah, she has an Apple show that lasts a season where it's basically like a Twilight Zone episode. I watch a couple episodes of It's like she's an astronaut and there's a problem on the space station. She comes back and it's like not her timeline. It's like, oh, she came back to the wrong Earth.
00:04:39
Speaker
You know, if ah Natasha Lyonne didn't fall down that ah that horrible chasm that opened up in the middle of the Midwest and that swallowed her whole. And that she got like 127 hours, but for all her limbs. Yeah, at the same time. But she still has to cut them all off. like that's what's good That's what she's going through right now. She's still down there.
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, and like we we want to help her. We really do, but like. It's out of our hands, you know, out of our hands, just like it's out of hers. ah ah but the But what I was getting at there is, you know, if she wasn't in this predicament, then like I feel as though a new mirror pace would be a perfect candidate to be on something like poker face, you know? swoop in, remind people why she's talented and then disappear. You know, that I feel like that would, of course, corrected things better than any kind of like, I don't know, dead man down, you know, it's not going to, you know, get anybody rushing to the theater. She's on a season of the Jack Ryan show. She probably advocating for invading Iran or something or whatever they do on that show. And she's, she's just starts talking about how Venezuela is really dangerous out of nowhere. Yeah.
00:05:52
Speaker
That seems crazy. ah Have you seen that Peter Berg, speaking of evil military
Directorial Approaches: Berg vs. Spielberg
00:05:59
Speaker
things, when he's promoting battleship and he he's just like, yeah, the most, Iran's the biggest threat to to the human race, not aliens.
00:06:10
Speaker
Well, yeah like, first off, right, because, ah like, it starts off and you're like, okay, it's an Israeli, you know, broadcast that's interviewing him, right? And he's like, already kind of on eggshells in a sense, but you're also just like, it's a media hit, you know, how bad could it be, right? But Peter Berg has the energy of somebody that you, like, put a napkin on top of your drink, you know? Like, I would really...
00:06:34
Speaker
really loath to be in the presence of Peter Berg and the way that he says it the way that he says exactly what you just said about Iran he turns into like he's he's doing a lecture like it's like that's the way things have to be you know like it's been ingrained in him and it's it's like he can't hear another answer or otherwise and and a it speaks to like how he was brought up a and then b it's like you can clearly tell that he believes this shit, you know? He's internalized this and he's okay with it. And that's why he's the perfect director for Call of Duty.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that movie is going to be pure evil. You know, I i think that's going to that might that also might open up a rift in the middle of the Midwest. I mean, the Spielberg version probably also would have been evil because like he pitched them on a a Call of Duty movie. But that would have been like probably good, you know, like war propaganda from one of the great filmmakers is like, yeah, it's probably be pretty watchable.
00:07:34
Speaker
Well, a Spielberg Call of Duty would be like neoliberal. You'd probably get like Tom Hanks as like the person at mission control. And then you'd get like a a lot of amazing action sequences. Like you would get like mini Saving Private Ryans that would as like the missions. And I feel like that would be cool. And I just think that there is an irony there too to like how he had a hand in Medal of Honor, right? I was going to did he forget that he helped create another war, the war franchise that was, uh, you know, cannibalized by call of duty. The different, the difference is, is that this one's modern, you know, please he he's already done world war two. He can't go back.
00:08:14
Speaker
Um, but the, uh, the thing that's an issue here is that Taylor Sheridan and, and Peter Berg, you know, like these are fairly conservative people. And, uh, You know, when it comes to the idea of capturing the spirit of the Call of Duty games, just like imagining what that entails sends a shiver up my spine. The idea of like trying to cater to whatever that audience is. No, thank you. you know?
00:08:40
Speaker
Also on pre-production, i it says they're doing a Hancock 2. And last there was an update on it. Will Smith said Zendaya was being eyed for a role.
00:08:54
Speaker
I don't know what that means. It's like, cause she's going to be his daughter. Zendaya needs to, like, find a way to escape these problematic men. You know, like, but what's what's going on here? You know? Will will Smith, he's he's never done anything ever.
00:09:10
Speaker
No, no, no. He's like really normal in it, well adjusted.
00:09:17
Speaker
Wasn't there like a rumored like thing where he had like an affair with Margot Robbie, like the time that he was making. With that movie where they were like swindlers or something. like Yeah, like directed by the people who did Crazy Stupid Love.
00:09:31
Speaker
i never saw it. Fairly okay movie. You get a couple of great speeches from Will Smith in it. But like, I remember like there was a rumor at the time where it was like him and Margot Robbie, maybe it hooked up. And I'm like, if, if he went down that route, you know, maybe just made the clean break then, you know, maybe everyone would have been happier, you know? Cause I don't think that Jada Piggott Smith's happy with him. You know, i don't i don't think anyone involved in that's happy.
00:10:01
Speaker
I she was very clearly unhappy the moment that it happened. You know, he supposedly did it in her defense and she looked, mean, because like, yeah, that'd be super embarrassing if you're
Public Perception: Will Smith and Margot Robbie
00:10:14
Speaker
her. If you're like, oh, no, don't. You just want to like move on. Even if you don't like the joke, it's like, well, don't fucking slap the guy.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's like.
00:10:26
Speaker
there's there's a different way in terms of just like handling like your business, right? In terms of like in public, right? and and Beat them up in the parking lot, you know? like There you go, right? Don't do it in front on public leave. Everyone.
00:10:39
Speaker
There there there are layers to this, right? but yeah It's a lot different if it's a CCTV than like a high definition thing. He was in the middle. oh He was about to present an award to Questlove for a documentary. Don't don't interrupt that.
00:10:54
Speaker
Questlove's in the house.
00:10:59
Speaker
Was it before they even announced the winner for that? Because he was just up on stage riffing right before he presented, right? So it was like he, they hadn't even got into like what the category or the award was.
00:11:10
Speaker
And then they still had to do it afterwards. and And then the fateful night that Jay McCarroll got hit and everything got changed.
Zendaya's Career Evolution
00:11:20
Speaker
Speaking of everything that got changed. Go ahead.
00:11:24
Speaker
i was going to say, wait, okay, no, wait, never mind. Jay McCarroll was Chris Rock. I was to say, does that mean Jay McCarroll won for King Richard? But that would be funny if he got hit and then he won for King Richard, though.
00:11:36
Speaker
um He still wrote the song, you know, like that's still his claim to fame, but like it still led to the same. Well, actually, no, because if Jamie Carroll, you know, is in that position, that means he was Chris Rock. So that means that he had to have, you know, ah you know, he was in Madagascar.
00:11:55
Speaker
But but I guess like canonically, he would have only been what? He would have been like six, seven, six. a child star no the timeline hasn't diverged yet could Well, speaking of ah divergence, you know, I feel like now's as good but any time to talk about our topic. Well, I brought up Zendaya and then we almost started drifting from from that. But but ah yeah, we're here. so These guys
Euphoria's Provocative Themes and Challenges
00:12:23
Speaker
got juice. We're going to talk about the hottest show on TV right now. That's right. We're talking about Goonphoria season three.
00:12:36
Speaker
Sorry, mom and dad you can have the pit. Now it's time for the cool kids show smoking on camel cigarettes, Joe camel cigarettes. Oh, it's the bird of euphoria. I get feeling in my lungs and my lyrics.
00:12:53
Speaker
I mean, this show does give you cancer, so it's like not a too far off comparison. You know, actually, that might be a great, perfect comparison of what this show is, you know, because like when I think about cancer, right, I think about, you know, you get it from getting doing things that you may want to do, you know, like, let's say you want to be out in the sun, you know, oh, sorry, you're out in the sun for too long, you could get skin cancer, you know,
00:13:17
Speaker
I don't like that, you know? ah The thing with Euphoria is, like, you know, sometimes you'll get really cool camera movements, you know, like cool push-ins or something, right? But then you're watching the substance of the show, and you can feel, like, on a molecular level, you know, your liver is dying, or, like, year your your blood has now contracted some kind of disease. That's that's kind of what watching the show is. But, you know, like, I guess, like, a great place for us to start would just be, like,
00:13:46
Speaker
how we heard of Sam Levinson first, not even this show, but like, how did you first hear about Sam Levinson or like get familiar with his work? Uh, well, I've liked some of Barry Levinson's movies and then, uh, I actually hadn't seen any of his other stuff until,
00:14:06
Speaker
ah you fought Well, I guess I saw Wizard of Lies. That was like an HBO TV movie that Barry Levinson directed. but I didn't realize that like until later, I was like, oh, his son was one of the writers on it. And I remember nothing about it. it There's just, you know, ah the poster here, it's De Niro in a chair and he's Bernie Madoff, earth the titular Wizard of Lies.
00:14:34
Speaker
The HBO period where Barry Levinson was making these super sleepy movies. ah Very fascinating period of films to watch. Like I remember falling asleep to that film. I had to watch it like twice.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, like I can't, i don't even remember like that I like, I'm like, oh, that was terrible. But I was like, I literally don't. And then like, like you said, like he was doing, he was just doing shit like this. Like he did that Joe Paterno movie with Al Pacino. Like he he had to do both. He's like, well, did De Niro, so I got to do the other guy, you know.
00:15:04
Speaker
He did a few with Pacino. He did it he did a Dr. Gorkian movie with him. What was that one called?
00:15:14
Speaker
Let me find it.
00:15:23
Speaker
You don't know Jack. Yeah, you don't know Jack. I never saw that one.
00:15:30
Speaker
Uh, that one was, you know, for Kevorkian movie, it's about exactly what you'd want. And then, uh, but, but, you know, that's the thing with Barry Levinson, right? Like, cause, cause he was kind of, Barry Levinson was kind of like seen as an art house guy because he had some kind of vision. But when you go back and you watch his films, like his films are not, you know, super flashy or hyper stylized. He's a fairly,
Sam Levinson's Filmmaking Style
00:15:54
Speaker
like standard filmmaker in terms of craft right he he has very classical structural uh components to him so i mean i still have to see the bay the bay might be an exception exception to that from what i've heard about it like it's ah it's like found footage right Yeah, it it does some cool things with the format in the sense of like doing some things that people at the time had not thought of. But narratively, it's kind of really shaggy, right? I would say that that might be his most formally daring film just by default. But even then, like like think about a movie like Toys, right? Have you seen Toys by Barry Levinson?
00:16:34
Speaker
No, I've only seen the poster, and it scared me. Oh, you should. You should watch that movie. That's an interesting one. Okay. you know what the premise is? ah No.
00:16:45
Speaker
So it's like ah the military buys out a toy company. it Sounds like that's pretty good. Yeah. and And like there's a very it's very stylistic film. But like I don't think that you would say that the filmmaking in terms of like, you know, the camera movement or the stylization of performances are really is what's bringing out the style of that film. It's actually just in the production design and in the cinematography and how they frame it. Right.
00:17:13
Speaker
And Barry Levinson is usually just setting up the scene to just put it there. and I think it's important to point out the delineation to Sam Levinson, because I feel like Sam Levinson goes in the opposite direction, right? He's super stylized, but he doesn't really have a lot in terms of like a formal structure. He doesn't have like the baseline to at least work from like his father does. um And personally, i I actually watched Assassination Nation before Euphoria ever came out. I, I, I just,
00:17:44
Speaker
happened to find it i guess maybe joel mikhail was in it and i just it came on my radar that way uh you were still watching everything he was in at that at time i was a crazy cinephile let me tell you you mikhail head i mean also it's just in hindsight it's like colman domingo's in that mod apatow uh are there any other euphoria ites uh No, I guess those are the main two.
00:18:15
Speaker
It's kind of surprising Odessa Young is not on Euphoria. Like, it seems like she's like the demographic of like, yeah, she should probably be with those kids doing stump something.
00:18:31
Speaker
what What did you think of that movie? You've seen it, right?
00:18:36
Speaker
Uh, I honestly was like flipping channel flipping and, uh, I, I didn't stay with it for that
Euphoria's Influence on TV Storytelling
00:18:44
Speaker
long. Cause there was something else on a different HBO channels. Like it was probably like they're playing Dune or something. was like, you know what? This seems safer. I'm just going to go to do Dune 2. I want to, want to hear the Christopher Walken say this, this ma deeb. Yeah. The way you got the chin down too. That is late period Christopher Walken, I have to say.
00:19:11
Speaker
i watched Assassination Nation and I felt to myself that like, because sometimes you watch like a young a filmmaker or like a first time filmmaker, they'll do something and like their dials are all off, right? But you can feel that there is some kind of perspective there that just needs to iron it out, right? So sometimes when you watch a first film, you're just like, okay,
00:19:34
Speaker
something's here there's somebody with a ah like a possible vision that can work through all of this and while I don't really like love assassination nation or anything I thought it was okay you know almost kind of in like a Joseph Kahn like ah absurdist like maximalist ah parody of the American culture of the time right Which seems to be something he wants to do, but he, like you said about the dials being off, it's like, it seems like he gets less in touch with that the more time goes on. So I, I kind of want to revisit it, ah that one. I'm like, so maybe that's closer to like a, a better version. I mean we're both in agreement, Euphoria season one, good. Like it's like, you know, I, I don't really even have qualifiers for it. I mean, when someone says that's not their thing, I'm like, yeah, fair. Like it is it could be a lot. It overwhelms the senses, you know, like, but ah yeah I think that that does have a ground, you know, like it's doing cool things visually with the cinematography, but there is a pretty clear through line with Rue's storyline. and And from what I remember, at least like the ancillary storylines like supported that or like didn't veer too off from that. Whereas when you immediately, when you get to season two,
00:20:55
Speaker
There's like, even if I didn't know behind the scenes, like problems that were going on, i'd be like, yeah, what is going on? Like this character kind of just disappeared. Like, like the way Barbie Ferreira is just like, just vanishes from, from the show. I'm like, what?
00:21:10
Speaker
but It turned out she was doing it for the best. You know, she got out while she's still good. um No, like her quote, I told her she was like, yeah, I would rather instead of being on like the biggest show ever where I'm not doing anything, I'd rather be in an indie movie where I'm actually acting. You know, like, yeah, well, that's yeah you want to work. So like go to do do the place where you can actually do that.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah. and And I respect her a million times more for doing that. Right. Cause we'll get into season three, but like a lot of these people do not want to be here. but with season one, I was kind of late to watching it. Even after watching assassination nation, I had heard the praise. I'd heard some good things. Um, you know, like it's hard to be sold on this kind of like teen drama thing. You you and I spoke about the screen TV series for a few weeks. Right. yeah And like, that's essentially what euphoria is kind of going for, but they're pushing things to the max, right? Like in those shows, there would be drugs, but this time the drugs are even harder. And then like, there would always be sex in those shows, but now the sex is even crazier. And like in it's HBO. They can do whatever the fuck they want. And, and yeah, so like that already comes with the loadedness of like,
00:22:22
Speaker
It's going to be a discourse show because like there's going to be, I feel like that was like besides that and Game of Thrones, like those were the things that people, when people be like, there's too much sex and like movies and TVs now. like Those were the two things. It would be like the rape in Game of Thrones and all the excessive euphoria stuff. But but even though we're like in one of the chastest eras of like you know like mass media, pop culture, it's like, okay, well, that's a premium cable channel where they you know they're allowed to do that.
00:22:53
Speaker
Well, it's also like speaking to like the chase, like era that we're living in, in quotations, like the the reality is, is that most of the time when people put out something that's ultra violent or ultra sexual, it does often receive praise or popularity because people are expressing one thing, but they want another thing. Right. Ultimately, that's the way that people are, you know, consuming media. But the problem is with somebody like Sam Levinson is that he sees himself as like like a De Palma style provocateur, right? He's, he's aping people that he likes stylistically and trying to, you know, interrogate people by making them uncomfortable. Uh, but the problem is, is that in see Euphoria season one, um, he,
00:23:36
Speaker
clearly didn't have as much control over the show. Like he was still, you know, like he was showrunner, but he wasn't like fully all in. And to the point where like he was getting the cast to like help write the show with him.
00:23:47
Speaker
Right. There are many stories of how like Hunter Schaefer's character was essentially built with her. Right. so And then she wrote the special. Cause that was the thing between season one and two, there were the two specials. There was like the Rue one and the Hunter Schaefer one. And then Hunter Schaefer. Yeah. Like she helped.
00:24:05
Speaker
you know conceptualize her character but then also just wrote that special and i haven't seen the Israeli show it's called hot right is that the yeah I don't I'm never gonna watch it you know and I'm never gonna watch it I'm just curious so like did was season one closer like did he at least have like a ah backing of like some kind of idea of an is that like why one is more coherent because there was like he was basing it off of something That would make a lot more sense in that way, right? If he was like, you know, being a bit more faithful to the story. But what I was going to say about the first season is that it like, it felt like a lot of the things that you could put against it, right?
Polarizing Projects: 'Malcolm & Marie'
00:24:47
Speaker
Like the exploitative nature and its,
00:24:49
Speaker
presentation right uh in terms of like oh you know here are these model-esque women who are just like in all these outfits kind of stomping around making out with people and all that right um i think that what the show did really well was that tried to interrogate problems that weren't often depicted because oftentimes on shows like pretty little liars or whatever they could only go so far and they were like hoping to have more honest conversations and specifically with zendaya's character you know like being a
00:25:19
Speaker
pretty harsh drug addict you know like not like your average drug addict in high schools I think that that was actually like a great decision as separate from whatever it could have been you know based on but all this is so what I'm trying to say is that like I feel like Sam Levinson gave off a different impression when he was making the first season of the show for and even on that in between where they made those separate episodes versus when we came into season two but before we even got the season two there was Malcolm and Marie did you ever see that one unfortunately i watched all it i don't know why i don't know why that's the one that i you know kept on and didn't turn off maybe because i was just like i think it was maybe just like the season one of like well i'm like that was good so he's probably going somewhere with this even though this this is pretty boring and not good i don't remember where uh
00:26:15
Speaker
Had Tenet come out yet? Like, where was I on John David Washington? That was before Tenet. i believe Okay, so I was just agnostic on John David Washington because I didn't watch his HBO show ah Players. Weren't a big bla Black Klansman fan? No.
00:26:29
Speaker
oh Oh, that was 2018. No, I really like Black Klansman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. i mean, yeah, i mean, it's just fucking bullshit, Green Book. yeah That's not even my favorite Spike Lee, but the fact that Green Book beats that movie is absurd. Although it does give us one of the greatest clips ever of him being asked about Green Book. He's like, are are you British? He's like, wasn't my cup of tea.
00:26:56
Speaker
little prance he does he's got a purple outfit on he looks like a fucking comic book villain well yeah i think like prince had just died right and he was like already prince you know that makes sense yeah man oh he's he's simply the best and you like whenever he's wearing one of those outfits you know it's for a reason or or because like the mets are playing you know i should say the knicks yeah Yeah, so, no, so i I, you know, that's a great performance in Black Klansman, a really good movie. So, yeah, I was i i was pro both, because, like season one, I should say, i was also, ah there's an inherent skepticism of any one that comes from, like,
00:27:37
Speaker
like ah a Disney kid, you know, like, or something. I'm like, and I didn't even watch the show that she was on or or any of that. Like I had not consumed any of that media, but just when someone comes from that pipeline, I kind have my hands on my hip. I'm like, okay, you're pushing this kid. Even though they're hard, some of those kids have gone, like, you know,
00:27:55
Speaker
ah even though I might think he's making questionable career choices now, Ryan Gosling, you know, was like a, you know, the Mickey Mouse club kid or something. ah So, you know, it Miley Cyrus has made some good songs, you know, think Selena Gomez can be funny from time to time. Kiki Palmer was a Disney person, you know, like they're,
00:28:17
Speaker
There's a lot of like you know good talent that could come from Disney, but with Zendaya specifically is that a lot of her talent feels effortless. There has never been a a project I've watched from Zendaya where I haven't just loved her performance, even if she isn't doing much in it.
00:28:33
Speaker
It's specifically when she doesn't have anything to do. where there can be some issues, you know? And I think that Malcolm and Marie is a great example of that. um i was spoken too much of a different definite there when I said that I loved how Oliver performs this. Malcolm and Marie is a great example of where she can go wrong because like that movie is so one note. It's clearly like...
00:28:55
Speaker
because Because what i was saying before about the idea of, like, the first season of Euphoria giving him goodwill, the second movie almost, like, the second project after Euphoria, it almost feels like he's whining and complaining, and it's for no reason.
00:29:07
Speaker
It's like, why, like, I feel like Sam Levinson is already going through this period of, like... oh, they don't get me kind of almost, you know, like he's he's mad about that. He's just kind of like having a middle-aged stand-up comedian arc of like, oh, people are mad about the joke that I made. Well, I'm going to spend the rest of my life like doubling down and and complaining about the people who criticized me. Because like that's – john david washington's character is a director right like and he's like they just came from like a premiere and like he's like you know like raging against his critics and like that's causing like this this marital strife too and i'm like so who are i yeah like there are there's controversy around euphoria but it's a pretty like praise successful show like like this is like you're at your height now so are you making this now
00:30:05
Speaker
Well, it's also important to note that, like, the structure of that film is about, like, how the script that he's getting the praise for and, like, hopefully is going to be his next big thing was, like, inspired by Zendaya's character, right? And, like, it kind of starts to mimic what the production of the first season of Euphoria was in a strange way. And
Ensemble Performance in 'Euphoria'
00:30:24
Speaker
it's, like...
00:30:24
Speaker
It just goes to show that like he has a very thin skin, right? He can't like he he wants to be a provocateur, but he can't take what he dishes. And so Euphoria season two is before the idol, right?
00:30:38
Speaker
Right. And like, what did you think of season two of Euphoria? Yeah. It looks really cool. and Like, there's, like, stuff that... And also, it has the benefit of, like, we talked about Zendaya, but the show has, ah like, a really good ensemble. Like, it's, like... I don't think it's, like, an accident that... I mean, or maybe, you know, they got lucky of, like, casting all these people, like, right before they, like, you know, get bigger. But, you know, everyone from...
00:31:06
Speaker
i mean, RIP Angus Cloud, ah but but I think like he's... like i can't I can't really think of anyone who's like bad in in in the ensemble. It's just a matter of like what they're given to do, especially and when you get to season two, when they kind of... like Rue is still like our through line mostly, but like when you go around to other characters, a weirdly, Wad Apatow's character has the most like ah the clearest through line of like the supporting characters. And when she was like very kind of like, she was just like the sober friend that Zendaya would like go to like, but I don't remember her being like,
00:31:48
Speaker
a huge component of of season one. So like her having like such, such a big, like, like the climax kind of like is all set. It's like, it's all leading to her play, her play with fucking ridiculous school. Like what the kind of budget did the school give her? It was like all these like elaborate sets and like the choreography and in her play. It's like a really good play, but I'm like, damn girl.
00:32:13
Speaker
well There's like literally like a set piece in her play where like she like there's a the set is made to look like she's walking down like a street or something and and like it's moving with the character. I'm like, what high school production like that is some real ah l L.A. shit, you know. That is truly how you know that Maude Apatow is going there because only Nepo babies are putting on plays like this. And I feel like what you're talking about, this idea of the play becoming so important and Maude Apatow's character getting this upgraded prominence, it's Sam Levinson revealing that he is really a theater kid at heart. That's why he's so interested like,
00:32:47
Speaker
high school and like the theatrics in the sense the grand drama the arch drama um i feel as though ah he's he clearly wants to be a great filmmaker but he's a lot more of a of like a campy nerd than he knows and and i feel as though he needs to like lean more into that realm and on that note of like the focus uh being off on certain characters um you can tell that he certainly gets obsessed with Sidney Sweeney in the second season, uh, because like the entire show just kind of like is about Rue for the majority. And then like talking about Cassie for as much as possible and, and giving Sidney Sweeney as many moments to shine. And I think like back in when that season came out, um,
00:33:36
Speaker
Sydney Sweeney pulled off a great performance in that second season. i she's really good. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was everybody else, of course, you know, but I think that Sydney Sweeney really, really was impressive. Similar to Zendaya in the sense of like, you know, maybe you're watching like Dune and you're like,
00:33:53
Speaker
She's not like she's in a blockbuster. She doesn't really have a lot of place to show what her range is, right? Something like Euphoria would be a great thing to point to and be like, well, watch this. And it really acts her ass off of this. I feel like Euphoria could act like that for Sidney Sweeney, if not for everything else that came afterwards.
00:34:10
Speaker
Right, because I'm like, what else does she have? I never saw Immaculate. I just remember thinking it was cool that she, like, pushed so hard to get that, like, out the gate. I was like, oh, well, that's that's cool that she used, like, her cachet to do something that sounds, sounds like, kind of gnarly like that. um I never saw. For a pro-abortion horror film.
00:34:33
Speaker
Like it's ah it's like pretty like gnarly and radical and how it's depicted. Uh, even if it's not a, you know, great movie, it's like, if if, if like for whatever reason it could be your first horror film, it would be a fine first horror film.
00:34:48
Speaker
Uh, I also never saw, there's an HBO movie where she played like, uh, that, uh, government intelligence person who leaked the stuff reality when, uh,
00:35:01
Speaker
She's supposed to be good in that. People said she was... It's just called reality. Yeah, that's a good movie. She's really good in that movie. that that Again, she it's like solid actor, unfortunately, Sydney Sweeney, when she's got the right role. I'd say in the past like two, three years, she's sucked. she but I prefer Quentin DuPont's reality. She should be in a Quentin DuPont movie. Yes, that's right. she needs to like She needs to be in the Source Engine looking Blender animated film that he's got coming down the pipework. Have you seen that?
00:35:31
Speaker
no he's He's got two movies coming out this year, right? So the first movie is that. It's an animated film. It was animated in Blender, but it looks like it was made in Source Engine. And then he's got like a farce coming soon with Woody Harrelson and Tim Heidecker.
00:35:49
Speaker
So he's going to have two movies this year. Yeah, it's going to be really cool. um But I guess like the thing that like happened with season two was that, you know, like he he had this whole bitter contact. Like he had this bitter approach to of the critics after Malcolm and Marie, you know, which was already a movie that was bitter to the critics. And so he took the paycheck that he got from HBO and he became super indulgent. right and a lot of people started like really hounding the production every ah time an episode was coming out for the second season there was a lot of hubbub uh surrounding like how people were treated on set right and to this day you know there have been no like allegations of mistreatment of people on sets from sam levinson what have you the key difference though is that
00:36:42
Speaker
He would extend days like crazy. He would take what they had written and planned for days and he would completely improvise. And I think that that speaks to something a bit different. And I think that that speaks to a lack of care and respect for the people he works with. And I think that that is it's not abuse, but it ah it does also speak to a certain kind of shittiness, you know, a certain kind of person you don't want to have around. You know what i mean?
00:37:05
Speaker
Well, especially someone who at this point has more experience under their belt. Because like as someone who's dabbled in no-budget filmmaking, I've been like unprepared and stuff where actors are waiting around and you know they're kind of like... wanting to know like what is the next shot going to be ready and so and i yeah feel bad about it because it's like shit like yeah i did like something it's like something unforeseen or that i should have seen happen and things were taking more time and it's like yeah i could have i need to be better prepared next time and stuff like that that's like that's like first time filmmaking stuff that's like yeah that's common if you're a first time filmmaker but he's not a first time filmmaker
00:37:48
Speaker
Well, it's the thing that... It's the fact that he's not a first-time filmmaker that makes it worse, right? Because he's using his cachet and his clout to then go, okay, no, I can do whatever I want, right? And and it's it's to the ah suffering of the people on set, you know? Yeah. like um I mean, you hear about Spielberg tweaking the blocking of an action set piece like on the day or something, but he's fucking Spielberg, so like his brain... he has autism for a good set piece filmmaking. So like, you know, he could do that.
00:38:25
Speaker
some people you know they build their trains in the basement and spielberg he's you know he gets tom hanks in a goofy suit and they do something really amazing uh everybody's different you know uh but the the uh the thing about ah ah the difference with the spielberg and sam levinson is that he knows that he's going to shift things before he gets to set and he allows he cooks that into his uh process because he does a lot of like pre-blocking where he'll actually have stand-ins block the scenes with him while the actors are uh you know uh getting ready and uh that gives him a freedom in terms of changing things up but that's something that you're not really supposed to do usually right you're that's taking a bit of this this decision making away from the actors at that point you're only able to do that because you're steven fucking spielberg sam levinson
00:39:16
Speaker
different story because Sam Levinson, he's like, okay, I got these plans. He gets there and then he goes, okay, no, but wouldn't it be cool if like fucking ah this one guy punched another guy really hard, you know, and they had to like, you know, bring all the squibs. They had to change the whole setups, you know, like that's intensive ways of filmmaking. It's not like changing line for everybody else. Or like, or what if you, you know, do this action in this way? It's like full on,
00:39:44
Speaker
but Like you said, like if if someone gets shot or hit or something or you're adding like like some kind of choreography or that like that's that's whole shit that that needs to be prepared. It's like you have to like to bring extra people who maybe weren't even supposed to be there that day for the stuff like that.
00:40:01
Speaker
speaking Speaking of people who shouldn't have even been supposed to have been there that day, I guess that's a perfect way to segue into the idol, which was ah ah Sam Levinson's hostile takeover, Amy Simetz's project. Did you ever watch that one? i Unfortunately, i watched all of it. It was it was like a trade. Well, because here's the thing. I have a soft spot for when...
00:40:23
Speaker
you cast like, uh, comedy people in like some, something more dramatic. So like in the ensemble, you have fucking, uh, Hank Azaria. And Divine Joy Reignoff, she's like an a real actress, but like she's also been in in playing comedial comedic stuff. Rachel Sennett. Sennett, yeah. Yeah, like, you know, there's there's funny people in the ensemble, so I'm like, well, this has to be something, right? and
00:40:55
Speaker
and like, you know, I like some Troye Sivan songs. um ki I'm curious of like... ah Oh, and I think another, ah I think Red Rocket had come out at this point. So I was like, oh, Susanna's son, like, I can't wait to see whoever uses her next and like what they do.
00:41:14
Speaker
And then it almost feels like it's kind of derailed whatever Red Rocket momentum. One, she won she's barely gets any, there's like a like one song something. maybe two where she gets to like kind of chime in You hear her voice. She's got a great voice. ah But i don't remember her like doing much in the show. And then like you look at like what's come after for her.
00:41:39
Speaker
It's like she did some... Oh, they did another Fear Street thing on Netflix. she's Oh, God. Wow. Okay.
'The Idol': Narrative Pitfalls
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's that's dark. Because, like, she's she's amazing at Red Rocket. Like, like it that that yeah that should be, like, a star-making career or star-making performance.
00:41:58
Speaker
um She's going to toe to toe with Simon Rex in that movie, and he's delivering one of the best performances of the decade, you know, so like, by all means, she is a great actor, and I hope that she's able to get more work in the near future. And and in that show, too, they posit her as like, you know, oh, going be the next big thing. They're even kind of being like, separate you from this whole thing. We'll talk.
00:42:19
Speaker
her and dev divine join Randolph have that talk. And and the the problem with that show was that like, it wasn't that, um, nobody got what it was doing. It was that like, everybody got what it was doing so quickly that, uh,
00:42:36
Speaker
any goodness that could have been there, right? Any, any like ah insightful point that it could have made. ah it felt like it was so obvious to the point where people just like were up against it. And then like the finale is like strangely misogynistic. Like that is definitely the low point of Sam because the whole the whole season you have the weekend who's like the sleazy cub owner and on paper I like the idea because you like he's almost presented like has the theatricality of like this is like what if what if what if Dracula was a sleazy club owner but but also had no game at all because he's like he's like a he's a loser and very inept but like it's like taking it out on lily rose depths like he's like trying to impose his you know control manipulate him but he it's so clear that like whenever he tries to intimidate someone else that it's like no he has nothing and like and i like you know people point to scenes of
00:43:35
Speaker
Like, I don't think The Weeknd's a good actor at all. Like, you he lucked out, and, like, but that scene in Uncut Gems, he's in his fine. yeah Like, I think i think he fake thought from that that he could turn that into career. But but he he's okay. He's at least, i like, I...
00:43:52
Speaker
the the the character is supposed to be pathetic and unconvincing so he does at least and embody that like so like like like like he's he's doing that it's just the the show doesn't have another like idea on top of that until the finale when they're like ah the real manipulator was this bitch oh It was the woman. I bet you didn't see that one coming, was was what Sam Levinson was saying. and And because I think it's important to contextualize everything that we've like all of this. Right. Because there's been a lot of hubbub around Levinson. And I feel like this right here was him trying to be like, you think I'm the bad guy? Well, I'm really going to be the bad guy. I'm going to take this story in a place that like everyone's going to hate. And they're all going get mad at me, but it's like, that's the show business, baby. You know, sometimes there are, you know, God dang suck you by, you know. um but What was the Amy Simons' like take originally?
00:44:53
Speaker
we'll We'll get there in a quick second, but just to round out my point here is like nobody cared, right? Yeah. Yeah. Even when he did this, right, this shocking, like, oh, I went in that direction.
00:45:05
Speaker
Everybody was just kind of like, eh, you know, like nobody was bad, you know. It's just kind of boring. Exactly, right? Like he has this persecution complex to him, Sam Levinson does. and And we've seen this time and time again with the ways that he's responded with his projects, et cetera. Just to get back to that note about the Amy Simons version of the project, they were very close to filming it.
00:45:27
Speaker
Like they they they had done a lot of like pre-production and they had like, ah there's there's pre there's a behind the scenes stills of like what the first season was supposed to look like.
00:45:39
Speaker
And they were definitely doing more of a traditional like what it's like after Disney stardom kind of direction. um Like they had like Lily Rose Depp ah cutouts, like cardboard cutouts where she was like essentially done up like a Hannah Montana character. Right. And it was going to be something like that, you know, where it was like Miley Cyrus's career or something. but But what the idol was...
00:46:02
Speaker
Like it it wasn't, it wasn't Dracula. It wasn't Miley Cyrus. It wasn't Spring Breakers. It was just kind of boring. It wasn't able to become its own thing. And it was inspired by so many other things and just altogether became lame and, and ultimately unguided and unfocused. Like it felt like all the episodes were, what, what are we watching this for? and then they, and then we only had any kind of plot motivation in the first two episodes and the last two episodes.
00:46:28
Speaker
Yeah, and then it's just like, you know, there like we said, there's like some talent it like in the cast, and then they're not used to like any means. I mean, there's talented people in the cast, and then Eli Roth's also there for some reason.
00:46:42
Speaker
Well, I was going to bring him up, right? Because that's another problem part of the equation here, right? Like he's very cozy with Zionists, right? And ah that's another thing that is a thing and against Mr. Levinson here. And coming into like Euphoria Season 3, right?
00:47:00
Speaker
Idol was supposed to be his big thing. That didn't like that kind of like proof that he was a serious filmmaker. That didn't work. Malcolm and Marie was supposed to be, you know, a a thing outside of euphoria that made him seem like a serious filmmaker. It's in black and white. work This is serious.
00:47:16
Speaker
Just like Clerks. That's ah that's a serious movie. um but But what I'm getting at here is that this is all he's got, right? He doesn't have anything else anymore, right?
Euphoria Season 3: Challenges and Evolution
00:47:27
Speaker
euphoria He's the euphoria guy. you can't, like, go to another studio and pitch something the same way that he could have but if he had made the first season or what have you, right?
00:47:38
Speaker
and Yeah, like, there's set the juice has kind of gone, like it's definitely gone in terms like, his filmic ability, but in terms of just, like, the cachet he has, it's kind of hard to imagine, like,
00:47:51
Speaker
i don't I haven't seen like what the ratings are for season three. If people tuned in, like if it it was doing numbers, there's going to be a steep drop-off. I know for a fact that will happen.
00:48:03
Speaker
Or people just watch it just to watch. I don't know. I don't i don't i don't really engage with the Euphoria fandom, so I don't know how devout they are in terms of like that they're like ride or die. They're just going to see it through to the end. But like in terms of like what he can get after this, maybe HBO can...
00:48:18
Speaker
throw him a bone that like yeah i'm saying like maybe he can only other get hbo stuff it made in the future he's gonna do a sequel bernie madoff movie you know like that's how he's gonna keep himself afloat um honestly like if we're talking about just like the success of season three before we get into anything else like i have heard nobody talking about this like i i I'm not seeing anything. internal and I follow like a diverse group of people. you know i like to get a good feeling of things. but um well I checked the For You tab too where kind of just like, okay, algorithm, what's what's going on other next to the wood? I've seen maybe one person post Zendaya, like the close-up of Zendaya's face from the end of this episode, which, hey, hey i'll I'll start off in the back. She's still...
00:49:09
Speaker
ah fun to watch you know like she she she she's a good actress you know so like like that that that's that's that's still part of the show but like yeah so like for someone to pop but yeah people people are posting that is like like oh she's such a great great actress like she's supposed to clip from challengers or something like there's other stuff you could like talk to yeah the the The thing with this season is that obviously Sam Levinson, this is his only thing, right? This is all he's got left. And I guess because they hadn't completed the arcs of all these characters, all these actors have some kind of necessity to come back to this project. But literally everybody else has better things going on. Literally everybody else. like It feels like true was Best Picture a nominated film. Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:57
Speaker
Exactly. yeah Yeah, exactly. Like fucking, i mean, I, you know, I'm mixed on Frankenstein, but Jacob Elordi is great in it. Like, like I, Yeah, the best part.
00:50:08
Speaker
Yeah, he's the most entertaining part of it. One of, probably like one of my favorite you know, it and takes on that character. ah But ah so to see him back, like he was so checked out in this that I started retroactively as cause like ah from my recollection, he's good in season one, but then he's like, so checked out. I'm like, this American accent and always sounds so low effort. Cause he's like barely, he's like, I am Nate Jacobs. I am a con. I it's so hard to build.
00:50:48
Speaker
go Come on, Maddie. I just need to sort this out one more job and then everything will go right for the wedding. like it's like one of those performances. Yeah. um and i mean, the idea of Nate, like I do like,
00:51:05
Speaker
Like, again, like this is like other Sam Levinson stuff where it's like in better hands, maybe this could be something because idea of like that kind of guy who is cranked to 11 and exaggerated as euphoria is or 100 percent. Like that's a real guy. Nate Jacobs, like season one and two. Like if if people people are like, no, there's no one like that in my high school, then maybe you were the Nate Jacobs. But, ah but, but someone like that, then kind of just like becoming a loser as an adult who's like barely treading water like, like, that's an interesting arc because like that does happen to those kind of guys where it's like they peak in high school and like, you know, then they get on to the real world and they don't have any power. I mean, some of those guys then do go on to wield actual power, but also a lot of them just don't have power.
00:51:54
Speaker
Well, like, honestly, like, Sam Levinson and Nate Jacobs share a lot of similarities in the sense that they're Nepo babies, right, who are being thrust into that position, and they don't really know what they're doing, right? And and we'll we'll get more into, like, you know, the arcs and the characters and stuff. I just really wanted to drill in on how everybody is more busy, right? Because, like, Sidney Sweeney,
00:52:16
Speaker
had a film career and the film career died in between the second season and the third season of this, right? Hunter Schaefer is probably like one of the most popular actresses in the world right now, right? Just like it most in demand, right? Same with Zendaya, right? Zendaya is like the face of Noon pretty much, you know, and like will continue to be that as well as an art house darling because of char Challengers. So it's like, and is Alexa Demi is the one who's like, like if I look at her upcoming, it's blank. But I, you know, a little ah unfair. From what I heard, she was supposed, like she was a part of like the whole, you remember how there was like a Madonna movie that was trying to be made?
00:53:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. with with what's Yeah, apparently she was like ah really trying to get that. And apparently like that was like the one role she was trying to work towards in between this period. And and even then the movie didn't happen. And even in that idea of it trying to happen, she wasn't even like the final choice.
00:53:18
Speaker
So I imagine that was probably very devastating for her. Yeah, I mean, the only other thing that I can think of that she's done between seasons was there's that great moment in the A24 podcast where she's talking to Nathan Fielder and she brings up believing in fairies. And then classic Nathan Fielder fashion, he's like, wait a minute, you're going to have to unpack that.
00:53:44
Speaker
What do you mean by fairies? She doesn't realize that she's in an episode of Nathan for you when that starts happening. And and it it plays out exactly like one. and And what I loved is like that was like one of the last eight twenty four episodes for a while. Like they don't usually do that podcast very often. So like I remember months, that was like the only one you could listen to. and i I mean, end on a high note, you know, like don't do any more episodes. You're not going to top that. i don't think.
00:54:12
Speaker
you what Who else are we going get? Fucking Daniel Radcliffe and Noomi Rabase in a room. You know, like, what do they got to talk about, you know? But but the the ah the thing is, is that the show is now something different. We're out of high school because it's been too long. and it would be a little ridiculous having people breaching their 30s, you know, in high school. I mean, if we should say, like all those things we mentioned that happened between seasons. This is four years since season two, like in real life, in terms of in the show, it's also been like a few years. Right. Like because it doesn't sound like she just got out of.
00:54:48
Speaker
ah high school. it seems like she was out of high school for a little bit before the ruthless drug Lord played by Martha Kell. It's so funny because I i loved Baskets, the Zach Galifianakis show. She's hysterical on it. Like, like, um Yeah, yeah, she's she's like a highlight of of of that show. So to see her still still having the same like deadpan affectation, but to be like, no, you don't get it. This woman's terrifying. It's like very funny idea. And I would love to see that idea of a character in like a good show. Because like that sounds funny. Like her her being ah a ruthless joke. Like do Breaking Bad starring Martha Kelly.
00:55:28
Speaker
I'd watch that. I don't know why, because because like, when we think about Sam Levinson's stuff, right, like Malcolm and Marie, ah we had ah The Idol, we have Euphoria, and we have Assassination Nation, right? These are all very ah youth-centric projects, right? But but he's, ah he's if if we can, like,
00:55:51
Speaker
find anything that he's actually good at in terms of ah as a director beyond any of the stylization, he does get good performances out of people. You know, he he gives them the room to like breathe. And i think that he would probably do better making adult like genre films, you know, like with adult like character actors, right. Rather than like trying to hire models and trying to make them fit within the mold of this, because Euphoria was pretty little liars, right? Pretty easy to see why, you know?
00:56:24
Speaker
Now he's trying to do like a Western satire of America, like with the characters that he had made with the show. And it feels like he's trying to make like his like dream project within the framework of what Euphoria set up.
00:56:40
Speaker
Well, I think it's like what you said. He doesn't have anything else. So it's like if he ever had the inkling of like, yeah, I'd like to do like some kind of neo-Western like satire thing. i guess I'll just do this because like yeah he he he was already running out of ideas for like the...
00:56:59
Speaker
you know souped up after school special riff uh in season two so like what what else are you going to do like a lot like a lot of things that we've mentioned i think at better hands a pivot like this could be fun like because like i there is something to especially in tv where you can kind of like uh do anthology stuff of like yeah fucking just do a different genre every season whatever that that so that's stupid that could that could be fun but it's the fact that he's giving into the wrong indulgences and like the lack of focus also hurts it because it's like also it can only be the like neo-western thing for the drug smuggling Zendaya's stuff there's not enough like bandwidth like
00:57:48
Speaker
You cut to the other character, like, okay, Ahmad Apatow's in Hollywood now. How does that fit into the Western? You can't do that with all the characters. now we're at the point where it's like all these different characters because of how they were established they can't fit within the tone of what Sam Levinson wants to do because as we're kind of alluding to Zendaya is going through more of a crime centric story not so interpersonal so far and everybody else is not in that same realm the issue is is that
00:58:19
Speaker
either like I would have been happier if none of the other characters came back and it was just Zendaya show right I feel like that would have been more successful more interesting what have you but it's the fact that it's so beholden to what it used to be and and it can't choose between that because all of the other actors are such a big deal where it's like they need to come back you know they they're international superstars so it's like it's a really tough space where it's it's held back by what it was supposed what it was and it's also held back, but why it's trying to be.
00:58:52
Speaker
Right. Cause it can't, it can' it can't reconcile the two. Maybe a better storyteller could, because like we said, season one he, you know, there at least were other cooks in the kitchen creatively and stuff. This is all, there's no writer's room.
00:59:09
Speaker
and you know, so if now. So, like, no one's, or, you know, at least we're not seeing credits of, like, you know, oh, Hunter Schaefer helped with this episode or whatever. This is this is all him. Maybe, ah ah you know, a better team of people could figure out how to, like,
00:59:27
Speaker
put some salve over these these issues and like maybe make it a little more coherent but my biggest thing is like can we make it interesting because like let's right ah let' like let's like let's just go by Rue. If we just focus on the the Western of it all, of like, okay, so she's, ah Martha Kelly catches up with her and is like, oh you owe me all this money now. Now you're going to smuggle fentanyl up your ass across across the border.
01:00:00
Speaker
the The opening... down Down her throat, actually. is down her throat. Yeah. Right. And then she has to... It'll come out her ass. Yeah. The opening bit with the car over the border wall is not bad. Like, as, like, an opening... It's good As, a like, an opening, like, set pace piece or bit, like, I'm, like...
01:00:20
Speaker
okay, I'm, I, you have my attention and Zendaya is still, regardless of like how different the show is trying to be, she's still locked into like, she's trying to bring some continuity of character to like, this is Rue because she's a good actress, you know? So like, and I, I'm professional. Yeah, so I'm i'm i'm enjoying watching Rue trying to problem-solve, like, being stuck and, like, seeing her go back and forth in the car. And then even her, like, coming upon, like, the the Mormon family and, like, the whole bit of, like, she comes up with the story of, like, that she's writing a paper, a story about, like, drugs being smuggled. And and and they're like, hey, can you can you send me ah us a copy of of your story? And she's like...
01:01:09
Speaker
commies and at school don't change it. Like, like there's like little funny, but there's still like moments where I'm ah, well that's good but because like, like you said, Zendaya is a pro so she can like, she can do this stuff in her sleep.
01:01:21
Speaker
Uh, and, but like pretty much as soon as we're done with this like little opening, we're already running out of steam. Like, cause yeah, it's like, okay, what other ideas you got?
01:01:35
Speaker
yeah, it doesn't even have enough ideas for like Martha Kelly's drug Lord. Cause they have to be like, well, she's now works. She has like a like inbred white trash family that is part of like her drug empire. I'm like, okay, I don't know who these people are. You know, like that you're just like introducing them. And then,
01:01:54
Speaker
Chloe Cherry's character who from what I remember just kind of hung around uh it did drugs angas cloud yeah yeah yeah yeah she was just kind of like in his entourage and now she's like smuggling with with with Rue but then they're like oh one of the like drug guys likes her and maybe Rue's gonna use her to steal from him like that's all you're already like I'm like what are we doing here? Because you're, you're already like losing, you're already being ADD about like the Western thing. Cause I'm like, Oh, if shouldn't we be focusing on like that aesthetic? And then they kind of try to get her back to it with the, um, I don't want to mispronounce his name. I like this actor, a Adele, uh,
01:02:46
Speaker
ah ah I'm just... Mr. Echo from Lost. Right, yeah. Mr. Echo from Lost is in this, yeah. He's a great actor. He's amazing.
01:02:56
Speaker
But their idea of what to do with him, they're like, okay, so like, what if he's like a blaxploitation cowboy? Yeah. And i it's like...
Season 3 Critiques: Thematic Execution
01:03:08
Speaker
Hey, Black Exploitation, like, throwback riffs can be fun. I love Undercover Brother. I like Black Dynamite. I even like Pootie Tang. Directed by... ACKs. Yep. Who directed
01:03:26
Speaker
A normal and chill dude. Somebody who has never did anything wrong. Oh, no. do not look it up, unfortunately. And so...
01:03:38
Speaker
You know, ah just like original Blacksploitation that i had white filmmakers, I'm not opposed to the idea of a white director taking their stab at doing that idea. But usually, especially if you're doing some kind of modern, like, take on it, there is some kind of black creatives involved in the writing or something, ah some kind of black ownership, you know, helping to...
01:04:02
Speaker
steer steer the ship uh but uh it just he it this is it's immediately is so messy because i'm like even even though i'm seeing faces i like you know miss mr echo from blast uh like a lot of the people who work for this this character of fucking what's what's his character's name You got the guy with the like longer leather jacket and the kind of like smaller Afro, right? Who's got like no sense of humor. I don't know what that character's name is, but you know I'm talking about? Yeah, I like that. and I've seen that actor in other stuff. I like him.
01:04:38
Speaker
ah And then ah we also see... Oh, he the so Mr. Echo's name is Alamo Brown. Yeah, again, blaxploitation. Yeah.
01:04:49
Speaker
Right. And then who else? There was another familiar face that was like at his his like manner. ah The guy who was like, I think he was like a football player, but now like.
01:05:02
Speaker
Oh, oh, fucking from Bottoms. That's what you're talking about, right? Like the best part of Bottoms. I know which guy. Marshawn Lynch, is that his name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's he's very funny. Like I said, he's very funny in Bottoms. I've i've seen him in other stuff, for the compelling. Like, i I would like to see him in good stuff, but but i something tells me he's not going to be maybe be underutilized or not used well in in this. Like, it just it just is it just is very clear there's no conception of, like,
01:05:38
Speaker
what this is other than like a purely aesthetic thing other like yeah black exploitation but he's wearing a cowboy hat so we're back at the western thing uh how is he gonna test rue when he finds out that the there was fentanyl laced in the drug she brought uh he's gonna shoot an apple off her head what's fucking crazy crazy bro
01:06:03
Speaker
but it's It's speaking to like baseline like Sam Levinson just going like wouldn't it be neat if blank right and I think a great way to delineate the difference in exploitation actually comes earlier on if we're talking about Chloe Cherry's character for a moment. So there's that sequence that we alluded to before about drug smuggling. And and also you talked about the fact that the show is doing too much. You're absolutely right. Because like if there were if this was a real crime story, right, we wouldn't have Rue just telling us this stuff. We'd have her noticing these things. And as the audience, we'd be like along the journey with her, right? Instead, she's telling us this because they're going to be executed very quickly and we have no time and we got to get these set pieces out of the way because there's probably whatever million ideas that Sam Levinson has. But what I'm trying to get to here is that there's the sequence when they're explaining these like little, what look like dumplings that are filled with Coke. um And both Zendaya and Chloe Cherry have to like swallow them by lubing them up and then swallowing them. And if they puncture, it could kill them. And what, what this scene told me in just in this filmmaking
01:07:14
Speaker
Right. So you got like Zendaya doing it and it's a really gross act. Right. Like it's just like, you know, lubes it up, swallows it. She's like puking, like almost like she's like, you know, ah they cut the Chloe cherry and like, you know, the lube is coming from her finger to her lip and it's like, It's it's very it's very porny. and we should quote yeah Chloe Cherry is an adult film star. and and the you know lot of of Many times they you know will make a transition to ah you know a more traditional filmmaking, which I don't have a problem with, but it just is very clear that...
01:07:56
Speaker
Sam Levinson kind of doesn't have any interest in her outside of a se sex object. For sure. What is her character, even? Well, just to continue with it, right? Because, like, exactly that, right? He's fetishizing her. He's sexualizing her in that moment. But then also as just as, like, somebody who, is as a director, who's supposed to be, like, dialing the knobs, you know? Keeping the tone you know, in the right places at the right times, right?
01:08:23
Speaker
to cut from one person, you know, who is like a fairly grounded Zendaya, you know, who's just like, you know, going through this and it's pretty gross, right? And then to cut to like the cartoonish, like exaggeration version of that. And it's two characters who are then going to share scenes with one another. And it's like, these are two people who exist within the world. It's like, you have two different ideas of what reality is in your mind, Sam Levinson. And you can't have it, like your show has to have some kind of,
01:08:51
Speaker
inherent worldview and instead it's just going with where the wind blows in terms of what he feels in that moment which you know there are people who will say that like a tourist expression there is a freedom that comes with that and that there is a level of interestingness that can come with that but i feel like that's what season two was season three it's lost so much of what made season two so compelling in its stylistic expression yeah Yeah, ah he's just lost the the thread. And, like, I'm not opposed to, like, juggling different tones. Like, ah good filmmaker or satirist can walk that line. Like, ah i don't I don't think they're going for similar things at all, but I can't help but think, like, I i recently restarted um because it's ah I wanted to finish in also something different We might cover on this, but Boots Riley's show, Amazon show, I'm a Virgo. yeah you know like his his his He did
01:09:54
Speaker
it it deals with a very surreal world, but but then you know there'll be some kind of emotional character grounding. So there is something for us as an audience to latch on to and for sometimes just...
01:10:07
Speaker
If you want to make it more dramatic to hammer point home, he's able to walk in between ah and dial dial those knobs to the right frequency, like very definitely, you know, even as you know, like he's has one film and one, you know, TV show and another movie on the way. And he's already very good at like, you know, navigating that. Yeah. like i said, like they're not going for the same thing, but I'm just thinking of like someone who does satire who can like kind of know, knows what, what pitch to have things at. Whereas that this is someone with ostensibly more experience under their belt, but is less in control of, of their tone because then we'll go to like,
01:10:50
Speaker
Colman Domingo, who like, you know, like a lot of the people in the cast has like only gotten, you know, so much bigger in between seasons. The first season from what I remember. nominated Yeah.
01:11:01
Speaker
From the first season, he's like kind of shows up at, at the end and isn't a huge part of it. And then there's that Rue special where it's just him and Rue in, in this diner. And it's great, you know, cause they're both great actors playing off each other.
01:11:16
Speaker
ah Even if they're just talking about how gay sex is bad. now you shouldn't have me having gay sex coming out of a gay man's voice. i mean It is insane to yeah put these words in his mouth. ah Clearly they're having fun. like its they're and They're having fun, and they're good scene partners. And in a better show, this could be an idea because, like, you know, Rue's arc across the whole show, you know, like, she's she's a drug addict, and ah i think...
01:11:46
Speaker
one of the best things the show does in season one is that it has her relapse that it is like about how it is really, really hard. Even if someone truly wants to, to shake that monkey off their back and maybe she doesn't even really want to, you know, like playing with that idea of like,
01:12:06
Speaker
maybe she likes who she is when she's high better, you know? So like those those are, ah ah it felt like a fresh take on that kind of story. And ah to have someone be the counterbalance to that who is making a good you know case for sobriety coming at it from a religious angle i i think there could be a ah interesting back and forth especially you know if he's uh you know a more devout maybe has more conservative traditional but beliefs and you know she's you know
01:12:43
Speaker
you know, more, ah like like, way more liberal and would, you know, she's, she's you know, she's a gay character, would would push back on on certain things like, you know, the homophobia in in the Bible and stuff. Like, that could...
01:12:56
Speaker
be something there you know like like if that if if the show really wanted to interrogate that tension and that idea but by the end of the scene i almost thought they were playing it as a joke but by the end of the scene she's like no okay i'm gonna be religious now and yeah i was like oh this is this a bit but then she like calls back to it later in a way where i'm like okay, so this isn't, they are playing it for laughs, but it isn't a bit for the character. Cause like, cause like she's like listening to the Bible on tape while she's doing Uber and stuff. And then like, that's when, uh, Alamo Brown, you know, threatens her that she's like, Oh, I just thought this was God, you know, maybe. in and, uh, I think we're that's all supposed to, we're supposed to take that as like genuine on her part, but that doesn't, yeah weve We leave leapfrog over like it does with so many other ideas where I'm like, okay, we we need to build to this.
01:13:55
Speaker
ah In many ways, this this show is kind of like ah a rattle, like a death rattle of ah neoliberalism, right? Like there a lot of like neoliberal ideologies are on display in this particular episode of television. And and one of them is this idea of how great America is, right?
01:14:14
Speaker
That's something that I feel like is actually going to be like a common theme throughout the season. I get that impression. And there's clearly like supposed to be like an oxymoronic thing. They're going to be talking about a lot of inequality and how things are shitty. But I do think that there is an aw shucksness to this episode. Like, oh, there's a lot of darkness here. But like the great thing about America is that you can be anyone. You can do anything. Right. And a lot of this religion talk that we get, it feels like the show is asking us like,
01:14:43
Speaker
We're going to get religious. Is that okay? It feels really self-conscious. it It doesn't feel like it actually believes in the religion. It just feels like now is the time in which we need to believe in something in order for this to continue to work.
01:14:57
Speaker
and and And that's what it feels like rather than anything. and And actually, I want to go back to the exploitation thing real quick. Because ah it shows that ah Levinson's idea of, you know, people is very two dimensional and built from like media. Right. Because like they don't sound like characters. They sound like, you know, Quentin Tarantino when he's in an interview with black people. Right. I was to say, it feels very Quentin Tarantino or even Tim Burton. you know like I think back to the Soul Train stuff in Beetlejuice, where for a second I was like, there's black people in a Tim Burton movie. This is great. And then i read you realize
01:15:41
Speaker
then you realize he has no interest in using that other than the aesthetic. of so It's just a Soul Train joke. Well, the answer is clear. He's just got to do Pee Wee again, but he's got to make him black.
01:15:54
Speaker
Like, I feel like that, like, B for B, it would kill. or you just have a regular ass Tim Burton character and then just cast a bite. Like you don't need to even change the writing. They can be goth and be like, ah death, you whatever. they just, cause there's black guys. I mean, that's the thing.
01:16:13
Speaker
he Exactly. It's like a particular energy that has not really been shown on film before. and And Tim Burton could be the guy, but he's dropping the ball. And Sam Levinson, you know, what does he, what does he bring to the table? He's going like, here's,
01:16:29
Speaker
a daughter of a, you know, religious family, you know, and she's maybe one day I'll make something of my life, you know, ah, shucksing it up again. And it's like, it feels like the show has become even more toothless than it used to be. Because it's supposed to be non-ironic when Rue is like, I would trade places with you in a heartbeat. And she refers back to that, that girl in the family later of like, they just seem so happy. And like, that's one of her motivations for becoming religious. So,
01:16:58
Speaker
ah it it just feels It just feels so unearned and, like you said, toothless because I'm like, the old Euphoria would be like cranking the like religion satire to the max. So like, you know, in Rue's objections to stuff when like she's having that debate in the in the booth, which ah does does does he ever leave this diner?
01:17:24
Speaker
he always... I feel like Domingo's just like, they've got great cherry pie. I just sit here and eat the cherry pie. Like that's all he does. They're doing and a reboot of the the booth at the end. did you ever see that? I think it was like, I forgot what it was originally on, but I've watched it on Hulu. Now I think it's on Tubi. It's like Xander Berkeley in a very Twilight Zone-esque. Like it's like all set in this diner and he sits in a booth and and people come to him with like a wish.
01:17:57
Speaker
ah that some you know something might be something impossible and then but he'll give them a task that they have to complete to do it but since we're only in the booth we only see the person coming with the request and then and part of their deal is that they have to come back to them and describe what they were doing so like you know that's how we get the other the other side of it and there's like Yeah, it's it's very engaging, even though if it's just characters, if it's, you know telling instead of showing, because it'll be like something like, like, oh, a nun wants to, you know, like, ah hear God, like, literally, she wants to literally hear the voice of God, like, that's her request. And then like, the
01:18:37
Speaker
I feel like that the thing that he asked her to do is like something sexual or something that she has to like go on a date or something to like hear a guy. It'll be like something that might be kind of counterintuitive to like what the request is. So like, ah ah yeah, i I don't know. I went i went off tangent, but i those that that's what they reminded me of that. He's just in this booth. I'm like, oh, we're rebooting that.
01:19:02
Speaker
He's just always there. He can't leave. he's it's It's like his power station, right? yeah That's where he goes to recharge his batteries. um like The interesting thing also with this episode is like we're we're getting reintroduced to some characters and Hunter Schaefer is obviously being left. We even brought up Sharon Stone is in this show now. Yeah. I was getting there for sure, right? But, like we we am like, we have, like, three people who are, like, going to be the returning people, it seems, right? Like, we've got, like, Maddie, Casey, and we've got Maude Apatow's character, right? And clearly Maude Apatow's character is going to be the most interesting one with the most meat on their bones with shot ah Sharon Stone. And when Sharon Stone appeared, I was like, oh, this unlocks something.
01:19:47
Speaker
Paul Verhoeven, right? ah Basic Instincts Paul Verhoeven, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've heard of him. I'm a fan. um Yeah, yeah, heard of him. this This is him doing all, this is Sam Levinson doing like his showgirls as well.
01:20:00
Speaker
Like, do you like also get that impression from this? Yeah. I feel like the like actively they're trying to chase showgirls in tone and approach, but it's obviously, i don't i don't think it's even going to be as crass as showgirls.
01:20:15
Speaker
We'll get to Maddie. I don't even think, I'm trying to think, what's what's my least favorite Verhoeven movie? I don't think Sam Levinson could even do Hollow Man. yeah I hope not. I hope not. and We don't need more Hollow Mans.
01:20:31
Speaker
We don't need Kevin Bacon raping people. That sounds terrible. i don't want that. i mean, there is there is some truth to that, though. It's like, man becomes invisible, all unaccountable for his action, immediately becomes raping. I like it was like, okay, I mean, I don't enjoy the act of watching that movie, but I'm like, you you're still on to, so there's still some Verhoeven insightfulness to be gleaned from from that.
01:20:55
Speaker
Yeah, the the problem is that like it puts you in the driver's seat, where it's like, we're go to you're going to follow this, and this is what the whole movie is, you know? There's there's a real lewdness to that film that's gross, you know? Whannell's film feels like it gets the dials right, right? But... ah but When it comes to at least what Sam Levinson is doing here, he at least is trying to play into the sideshow element. He is aware of what people are saying. and He's trying to go like, we're going to go even crazier than you think. You know, we're gonna do things that you're going to be so upset about. and and And I get that immediately from Sidney Sweeney's character in this.
01:21:34
Speaker
she's an influencer. And then, you know, like you, the needle drop of how much is that doggy in the window? And then she's doing like puppy play stuff.
01:21:45
Speaker
It, it just feels so toothless. Like, like, like a lot of the other stuff that it does. I'd like it. it's it's supposed to have the energy of a UK won't believe the buttons were put. And then she's going to be doing only fans. I'm like, is that going to be boring too?
01:22:03
Speaker
Because like so far, none of the, like, it's just, yeah, it's, ah it's like a boring guy's idea of what is shocking and like, uh, like sexually provocative.
01:22:21
Speaker
I'm wondering how far they will take this subplot, you know, if if it'll go like darker and darker and it'll go, they'll leave her hands in some way. um But at the same time, um what we're seeing here, it's it like, it's so empty, provocative.
01:22:38
Speaker
It's an empty provocation, right? Because it's talking about how Sydney Sweeney's been, you know, objectified, you know, in her persona as ah an actor. but it But it does feel a little different when she's leaned into it so heavily and then has also come out and and been so negative in her political influence, you know? Like, it does feel like there's an oxymoronic thing that's happening there, right? Like, wouldn't you agree?
01:23:07
Speaker
Well, they like explicitly state, too, that she's in like a conservative, like affluent like suburb like or like the community that she's in. saw i was like, oh, are they going to comment on like that thing? But not really. like it's just it's It's baked into it, like the oxymoronicness of it, but...
01:23:32
Speaker
I, again, like with so many other things in the show, i don't think it has any follow through idea what to do with this because that could be ballsy of like, if you're like kind of throwing it in Sydney Sweeney, the person's face, like her conservativism and you're like, like the show like a more interesting show. Yeah. calling it out and challenging it but that doesn't does not seem where like where the storyline is going I don't know where the storyline is going other than I've seen the trailers that like Maddie somehow becomes involved as like she's like helping her take the pictures for OnlyFans or is like like I don't know she takes Sydney Sweeney on as like a client now I mean she's a client for like real actors so I don't know why she would like be like an OnlyFans content creator um I mean it seems like there's some probably a personal angle but if it if it just boils down thinking if it's just boiling down to like, she's like upset over nate
01:24:22
Speaker
I'm like, that's, that's the boring. Like, I mean, no if it's just like it's a betrayal and she wants revenge. Yeah. Yeah. I And that tracks for the character, I guess, but I, I don't trust the show to the degree where I'm like, is she going actively pursue as Maddie going to want Nate back? Cause I'm like, that's no, no,
01:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, no, I would, I think that we would be more likely for Nate to try to get back with like Hunter Schaefer's character, you know, like almost like I feel like it could go in that direction. But because we should say like ah in between seasons, ah the actor that played Nate's dad ah passed away is tragic. Unfortunately, yeah.
01:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, lost a couple members of members of the cast. ah But yeah, Eric Dane. So yeah I think, I think, on paper, Nate becoming his dad and fulfilling the role of some of those subplots could, could have been something. i don't think it's good. Like, even if it does end up like that, like, Oh, um,
01:25:30
Speaker
Nate's going to end up pursuing Hunter Schaefer. just don't have a lot of faith in that being something that's like compelling interesting to watch beyond the fact that there's like good actors on my screen, you know, like I, but they're not acting. They're not acting well. but like Like these are people who were on the show. I know they're good at acting because they were good on the show, but nobody on screen besides Zendaya actually looks like they want to be there. Like, yeah, Like, uh, Sydney Sweeney is like, she's posing for the camera, you know, as this dog, but her eyes look empty, you know, more so than usual. Some people will say, but you know, you watch reality, you watch earlier season euphoria. There's intentionality there, you know, there's a difference, emptiness that's happening here. And Jacob Elordi is horrendous in the show right now. You know, like he is not good. Like, I don't know what happened. if you You've been a bad dog. No, I think he's just in his head. He's like, i fucking worked with Guillermo del Toro. I was nominated for an Oscar. I'm about to do a Ridley Scott movie. yeah He's just like, he's just reminding himself in his head of like other like, like real things that he has going on.
01:26:47
Speaker
honestly the shock in his eyes makes me think that he's thinking like more immediately like he's thinking he's gonna go home he's like i'm gonna go home i'm gonna play so much kingdom arts i'm gonna play through uh the tron world from kingdom arts 2 again and that's gonna make everything all right you know this is just another day on set uh it is really rough to see this because also like this idea that like he doesn't know like the the you know ins and outs of OnlyFans like at this point you know somebody this age who doesn't understand what OnlyFans is or like what it means uh uh Sidney Sweeney is like explaining it to him it feels like really uh it almost feels like Sam Levinson himself is detached from reality at that point you know
01:27:37
Speaker
Well, I got the same, like, maybe this is me giving it too much credit. i don't think any there's any of this, like, in the performance, but just contextually, i think he gets what it is, but is just, like, so powerless to, like, because she's throwing in his face, like, the financial reality of it all and that...
01:27:58
Speaker
that she is like not budging on the, the wedding cost stuff. And that like, like she need, they need this extra income that he's conceding it to her. But the thing that I have trouble buying of like,
01:28:13
Speaker
did Nate ever really care about Cassie to the degree of like, that he would call her bluff on like, where she's like, maybe we just don't get married and he'd be like, fine, you know? Cause like, like even, even if, if yeah if this is a more, ah you know, ah feeble, powerless version of Nate, as he's been, you know, forced to reckon with the real adult world, he would still be trying to manipulate in his household. Like we see it with the housekeeper or whatever. So like that the fact that he would kind of just let her bulldoze over him feels like, like, Oh, you've just given up. Like, like, or is his father, like kind the way that his father ended up in the end of the last season, I feel like you would have like a lot of shame, you know, and a lot of like,
01:29:04
Speaker
things he needs to work, like come ah ah like a work across, like he needs to get over it himself, you know? um Because obviously both of them had their own shit that they needed to work through internally, right? And it it feels like starting this season, there's no reference of that conflict at all. And it feels really out of step. It feels like we're missing a key part of what made ah him an interesting character in the first place.
01:29:31
Speaker
but what made him an interesting character and like his dad, I had like, you know, there was that whole flashback last season where you're like the, they explicitly are like, no, the dad was closeted, like, you know, and he forced himself into this heteronormative life. And that kind of,
01:29:47
Speaker
kind of broke him him in terms of like why he is the way that he is as an adult. And you kind of get the vibe of like, oh, is that also happening with, with Nate? Because he does seem very detached from the the relationships with the like women in his life. So, uh, that could be something compelling, especially if you have a good actor like Jacob Elordi of like, yeah, no, he is, he actually is his father's son. uh,
01:30:16
Speaker
This is just, you know, the mask that he's wearing because he's doubling down on it because of the shame of like what came out about his father that he's like, no, okay, well, I need to even be more of the like straight hetonormative, you know, pitch per ah perfect American family. Like that there's, i have no choice now.
01:30:39
Speaker
He's locked in and he's locked in with somebody that like, you know, he he got with Sidney Zweeney's character out of like, you know, ah status and, you know, he's like jock, you know, kind of bullshit. Right.
01:30:51
Speaker
um it's It's a situation. Also, by the way, whatever happened to his best friend? Remember when he had like a best friend in the first season, you know, that had his own shit going on and they were setting him up for his own things? Like, like,
01:31:03
Speaker
got assaulted. Like when he went to like, you like there was like some frat thing or something. Right. right like Cause he was the one, he was the one who was originally with Sydney, sweetie.
01:31:15
Speaker
If I remember correctly. Exactly. I feel like to have a character like that around right now would be a bit more interesting, wouldn't it? But I feel like for whatever reason, Sam Levinson has let those tools out of the toolbox. But we're also, um you know, getting introduced to Alex Ademi, you know, working as this, you know, manager for the stars and how she's got like no money left for herself, you know. classic struggle it it makes total sense that she would be as put together as she is though like it sucks for her life right now but I do see an impression that she's going places and I do believe her character would be going places that's the easiest like sell for me on like where are they now like I kind of can like it makes sense that Maude Apatow because she's Maude Apatow would be working in entertainment but the fact that she's like risen up the ranks so quickly like well because we jumped ahead we didn't see i presume she did other jobs beforehand and other things but from the show's perspective it's like she did a really impressive play now she's in Hollywood now she's giving notes yeah she gave notes one day on the set of of the soap opera and her boss like alright giving you power now
01:32:39
Speaker
oh I just hope that like she just does a remake of the play on TV somehow, you know, we just do the same thing again. Fantastic. Like the finale of the show. Cause there's not going to be, this is the finale, the final season. Yeah. that that That'll be like the finale in their, their soap is like, yeah.
01:33:02
Speaker
And maybe that's it takes place in Israel.
01:33:08
Speaker
full circle, you know, that's how you get back to your roots. I mean, if anything, that has the potential to be, like, the show within the show would probably be more entertaining than watching what he's presented to us so far. Because this is basically like a repilot, you know? Like, we're, we're like reintrodued like, reselling a new idea. And shows do this sometimes where they're like, yeah, we're just pivoting now. We're taking these characters and this is the new concept. This is not a successful repilot in terms of its selling of, like, a trajectory of, like,
01:33:41
Speaker
you You go on board for this? I'm going to watch it because I want to see how far off the river. If I see a car driving towards a cliff, I'm like, well, that's not going to end well, but I kind want to see what that looks like. i've You know, there's a board. Yeah. It's the whole effect of like when there's a car accident. Right. The the traffic slows down. Right. Everybody wants to see what's going to happen.
01:34:05
Speaker
Exactly. Right. And when the idol was premiering. Right. Like I had like I was like, yeah, I hope that Sam Levinson can make something good for the sake of just making a good project. And when I heard that it was sucking, I was like, I got to watch that, you know. But it wasn't even bad in an interesting way, like we said.
01:34:23
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like, unfortunately, we're getting to that point again with Euphoria. I feel like Euphoria Season 3 starting to resemble more like, you know, Malcolm and Marie and the Idol than Euphoria ever did. it feels like ah he he is too high on his own supply, and he doesn't realize his own... um position even you know like this is supposed to be like his big blowout this is his big satire in america almost and it's pulling its punches in really strange ways at least in this first episode and uh something that we haven't even talked about stylistically speaking this is a pretty bland episode beyond like some montages you know we had some push-ins you know but like
01:35:09
Speaker
first season of euphoria had like a fucking room turning on its head inception style you know like it had a room turning there's that whole like ah musical number basically as she's relapsing and like you know oding like like that and then the finale and like like or just like the visual flourishes in season two uh like you said i'm not i'm having trouble thinking of anything that Because if this is like a neo-Western, this is like a pretty, like like, there's like a tour neo-Western riffs that I could be watching on streaming right now.
01:35:49
Speaker
I could just rewatch Too Old to Die Young. You know? Exactly. It does almost feel like it like he saw that in in certain parts. but he like, I can do that. Yeah.
01:36:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. he He's like, I can do that, but I can also make it like Sergio Leone, you know? And, ah like, another thing that we haven't talked about is that the ah composer for the show, Labyrinth, and somebody who was, like, you know, a part of, like, so the music supervising as well, from what I ah heard, he's gone. And his absence from this production is immediately apparent. The score on this is horrible. Like, the... I think it was Hans Zimmer, right? Hans Zimmer stepped in to do it now.
01:36:34
Speaker
Yeah. Or, you know, someone in employment. Yeah. hi I'm too busy, you know, just like showing up to a place and and waving. Can you do the Euphoria season three soundtrack? He's got like the Dune score to do or something, you know, like he he he does like one project every few years where he probably actually shows up.
01:36:59
Speaker
And then, you know, maybe a half of that where he's like actually like locked in
01:37:06
Speaker
And instead, this this feels like stock music to me, you know, like classic, like Western whistles and, oh ah and and you know, like it's trying. Here's the thing about Westerns. They look cool. Usually, you know. Yeah.
01:37:20
Speaker
that too the the filmmaking is not meeting that style of expression and so it feels like there's a disjointedness that's going on and then also on that note right because like what was so great about those first seasons of euphoria was that it would have modern pop music it would have deep cuts but they were always like timed to the cutting there was a there was like a you know fluidity there was a emotion to both the song choices and what we were like how was cut together with the images imagery this is like shockingly lazy like it doesn't feel like anything's timed cut wise to the music like it's just like way less kinetic than the first season or the second season ever was yeah because there's like a quiet like
01:38:05
Speaker
Of the, you know, early on, like if someone was the Levy complaints of against ah Sam Levinson for like season one, of you like, oh, he's, this is too much like a music video in less like a show. Like though that that's to me, at least in the form of season one, that's a plus. Like, I think that's like a cool thing about it.
01:38:27
Speaker
But if this was a music video, this is a bad music video. Yeah.
01:38:34
Speaker
Like, the the like, we're thinking we're talking, okay, so if we're going to talk about music videos from the perspective of like, Euphoria season one, right? Let's imagine Euphoria season one is like a Mark Roman X music video or like a Spike Jonze music video, right? Like, very tight, you know, it may not entirely make logical sense right but emotionally it makes sense right and then like this third season it's like Michael Bay music videos from like the 80s right like just sucks just bland and garish and and ah playing with stereotypes in the ways that like are broad and stupid
01:39:13
Speaker
um like Honestly, I'm struggling to find much more else to talk about with this episode. The last thing I wanted to bring up was like ah the phone calls with Angus Cloud, right? The idea that like they haven't killed him off in the show.
01:39:29
Speaker
Do you think they're going to do... What's his name from Fast and Furious? Paul Walker? Yeah, they're going to do a Paul Walker because, like, you know, he ah not killed off. You know, when when they did the end of ah a Furious 7, where I'm like, okay, well, they didn't kill him off, but the way he's driving off it is like, you know, like we've seen the last of of him. He's going to be a father or whatever. and you know, he'll be done from these movies. No, his character is still present in future sequels. And they'll keep referring to Brian. They'll be like, there's brand and Brian's car. And like up to the point where you're like, I kept getting progressively more nervous. like, Vin, you going to like fully like deep fake? hit Like he's just going to be walking around and like the climax of, of one of these. And, and probably if there ever, you know, comes ah another movie or a final movie rather that,
01:40:23
Speaker
That could be something that happens in it. But like I'm getting that tension now of like, okay, did you not kill him off out of like some kind of idea of respect? Or are you going to like ah carry Fisher him into it? Be like, we have Angus cloud footage or something. Cause it's like, he died a couple of years ago. This didn't, when did this start filming?
01:40:48
Speaker
Well, like if I remember correctly, he died about like a year or two after he did the second season of Euphoria. Like it was quick after that. Like his last movie is Abigail, I believe. like Right. Like vampire film. So like, ah you know, like he was,
01:41:04
Speaker
very shocking and sudden is passing. Like when it comes to the show, they, I don't think they had filmed anything. I don't think that they had done much in terms of setting up scheduling.
01:41:16
Speaker
Maybe it even pushed things back. Who knows? But what I find interesting is that they're setting them up to be like the moral compass that's off to the side. And I think that's a really hard thing to do for a character you can't see.
01:41:30
Speaker
or here, because there's no, right. I can't even conceptualize a way where you like take other dialogue of that's already recorded. Like they would have to do something tacky, like ai his voice on a phone call and spiritually AI again. Sorry. Spiritually Israeli. I don't think Sam Levinson's above that, unfortunately. So we could end up getting something like that where, you know, mod finally has some call with Angus cloud and it's,
01:42:02
Speaker
you know, helps her reach some kind of emotional point she needs to hit or And it's like montaging through other characters. So his words are supposed to carry wisdom or something. And I'm like, at that point, it's like, yeah, you should have killed him off. Or if you really need that, if your narrative like hinges on that so much, you just have another actor come and do those lines. If it's like a voice thing, like, like, uh, I, I, I,
01:42:33
Speaker
But a again, if if that's the point you're at where your narrative requires that you're probably in trouble. speaking of like uh loose narrative threads that you know would probably leave him in trouble uh glad that dominic fyke isn't back glad that that guy just doesn't know not even referenced he's not referenced but i think he is on the cast oh that's hilarious that's hilarious i had no idea because i'm like
01:43:06
Speaker
what what What do you do with him? You know, like what's what's the what's the concept here? All I know about him is that like he was in a relationship with Hunter Schaefer and apparently he cheated on her. and I'm just like, man, you fumbled the bag, you know, like you fumbled legendary bag there.
01:43:29
Speaker
ah Yeah, Legendary Bag Fumbler supposed to be okay. I mean, because in a show, they can credit someone for the whole season, but there might be only in like, you know, half of the episodes.
01:43:42
Speaker
But it's specifically listing him as for like the rest of the season. Like every episode is not episode one. But again...
01:43:53
Speaker
You know, we've already said this, like, this is, this is like too many ideas, but also not anything at all. So I'm like, what the fuck is your conception for Dominic Fyke's character? Because that was already, i felt like I was being trolled in the finale when he's like, going to play a song for you. And then it like kept going. It almost felt like some kind of lonely Island bit or something where I'm like, okay, that this is longer than like a minute. it Oh, this is longer than two minutes. Yeah. We're doing the whole song. We're still going. ah like His character barely had anything, but he did service a good function for the second season, especially in trying to complicate, ruin... ah
01:44:36
Speaker
like ah Honor Shaper and Zendaya's relationship. He was like another obstacle, you know? And that was really the only use he had in terms of like a wrench in their relationship.
01:44:49
Speaker
But is like Is he going to be in Hunter Schafer's storyline? Like, I hope not. hope not. What the fuck is that? but But also, if he's not, why is he here? Because it's not like he was like a fan favorite. I mean, he's like a musician, right? I've never listened to any of this stuff besides that one song I was forced to listen to in Euphoria. He's got some okay music. He's not the worst. Yeah. But is he popular enough where they're like, we can't write his character off or they'll be right? now
01:45:23
Speaker
No, he's not like that popular. He's like, he's got institutional popularity. He's done songs with Paul McCartney is the way I'll phrase it, you know? So it's like, we'll put Paul McCartney in this. Yeah, of course. Have him dating. Oh, Schaefer.
01:45:41
Speaker
Oh, Miss Hunter Schaefer, show you the best clubs in all of London. we have a goofy time. ah man. Tell you about the time me and John jacked each other off.
01:45:54
Speaker
Or as we call it John. We called it John and each other off.
01:46:02
Speaker
Had to keep it down. Yoko is in the next room. But to be clear, we're both completely straight. It wasn't gay.
01:46:14
Speaker
Don't you ever just sit and jerk off with the homies? I like how we're just like turning it into a ghost rather than British, you know, in voice. Ooh. Marley, Marley. Not to spoil things too much.
01:46:32
Speaker
Not to spoil too much, but I do know that Britney Spears is going to be making a cameo appearance later on. Oh, good. Like, I think that's perfect, but also at the same time, I'm not sure if this is that show anymore, right? i feel like that would have been perfect for old Euphoria. And also just actually before, I forget this point.
01:46:55
Speaker
something that was interesting for me was that like part of the appeal of euphoria season one and two is that it was not just a story about ruse addiction, but it was a story about like queer romance in high school.
01:47:07
Speaker
Right. The idea of like being a lesbian. Right. And, and like her sexual identity is not even interrogated beyond her fears being like, Hey, you're a sex trafficker. That's awesome. You know, and i think that that's really strange, you know? I think it's just her being into the like the big breast, the women with the fake breast at, at, uh, Alamo Brown's place and her being excited that like, she's like partying with them. And yeah, like you said, like she thinks like, Hey, you're sex traffic. You're in the pussy business. That's fucking tight.
01:47:38
Speaker
Uh, but we're so far removed from like the queer, like we said, we've already moved away from that with, the Jacobs. So I don't know that we're ever going to get back to that with them. And it feels like Rue and Jules are so far removed because like they make reference to what she's up to that she's, you know, like a sugar baby. i'm like, so how is that going to, cause that should be like,
01:48:01
Speaker
the thrust of the show right beyond her addiction is like, are they going to find some way back to each other? or like, is, is there some, or like they keep finding each other. and Like you can do some kind of like before sunset, before, but you know, like with them where they keep running back into each other at different stages in their life.
01:48:19
Speaker
But they, it just seems like, like geographically and plot wise that they're so far removed that it's going to feel if they do come together at any point, like just for scenes or something, I don't know what that looks like or how they're going to like make that gel with like what they're morphing the show into.
01:48:41
Speaker
I don't think that they could ultimately end up together just based on what season two was and then that time jump, right? Because like season two, they were on the rocks and they were rightfully so, you know, like they were going in different directions.
01:48:55
Speaker
and And I feel like in season three, if they were to just end up happily together, it would feel like, ah you know, Hollywood romance, you know, haha whatever. And it feels like- why im i'm not even saying they end up together. I'm just saying they end up in a room together. Sharing multiple scenes is hard to conceptualize at this point of like how we connect those dots.
01:49:16
Speaker
Like, cause like you wouldn't think you would least see if they don't get together there. You want to like have that tension of like that this, this was like the life we could have had or something, you know, but. theirre Their Paris fashion week schedules barely align anymore. How do you think that they're supposed to show up for a television show?
01:49:35
Speaker
Right. And like, yeah, there's the real logistics of like, everyone has different, like they're so much bigger now. That's why all these plot lines are so like, so far removed, but that ultimately hurts the show. Like you can't do something where, you know, as people get older in life, you're like, you're not, everyone's not in contact with the people they went to high school with, but like you could find some way to like, have these storylines actually be paralleling or bouncing off each other in some meaningful way. And then like, find a way for our lead to and intersect, you know, ping pong off of like different storylines. Like even as messy as season two was, there's that still that great episode. I've seen some people refer to it as like the Rue-pocalypse of like where she's basically like, you know, like her... it's where Jules tells her mom she's using again and she like runs away and then she's like kind of like rampaging through the lives of everyone else in the show that's like she reveals to Maddie that Cassie's been with Nate and stuff like that's a that was like a cool way to like intersect those storylines like I don't of course even see how we do that now
01:50:48
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't, like, she has nothing anymore in her background, right? Like, there's nothing tethering her in a real meaningful sense, right? She comes crash on Maude Apatow's couch sometimes, and she's like, yeah, I'm doing Uber. Ha ha.
01:51:03
Speaker
I'm definitely not a drug trafficker. and And like, I feel like the God stuff is like trying to wallpaper over her lack of interiority at this point. You know, like it's like that's like the cheap thing you do, right? Like, oh, you give them some theology and and then all of a sudden they've got some something deeper to them rather than, you know, just having nothing to them, which we're unfortunately, it seems like that's what's happening. Right. It feels like all all the things that were being set up in the first two seasons of Euphoria, they're gone for what Sam Levinson finds interesting for right now. And it doesn't seem like any of the performers who have read the material are particularly interested in what that is.
01:51:48
Speaker
Yeah. ah Things we have to look forward to. ah Apparently, Eli Roth, you know, he makes a cameo as Batman or like a guy on the Hollywood Boulevard. That was him?
01:52:01
Speaker
That was Eli Roth, ah according to the credits. ah Yeah, great. But he's credited for multiple episodes this season. So I'm like, does he come back as the guy who plays Batman? Are we going to keep getting Batman check-ins on Euphoria?
01:52:18
Speaker
Like, it feels weird. Maybe like Maud Apatow like sees him as Batman and she's like, wait a second, but you're actually Batman. Yeah. What if Batman was on our soap and Sharon Stone's like, that's brilliant. It's the best idea I've ever heard.
01:52:36
Speaker
what what's so What soap operas have had popular IPs on there? You know, that that'd probably be a game changer. Yeah. would be ah a legal nightmare, but it'd be a game changer for sure. be a game changer, sure. Natasha Lyonne is credited. She's going to be showing up, probably talking about ai or David Lynch or some combination of the two.
01:53:01
Speaker
um It's very interesting. you just ask it any question you want.
01:53:11
Speaker
um I don't recognize. I'm just looking at like, what do we have to look forward to? Since nothing in this first episode is giving me much hope. I don't really recognize a ton of these other names in the credits. Pop star Rosalia is apparently supposed to show up as well. She's, she's a good pop star. I like her as well. Playing someone called magic.
01:53:31
Speaker
that's an That's an X-Men character. Maybe she's going to, this is an X-Men ah backdoor, you know, this is how they reboot it. And the MCU is on Euphoria. See, they're like, yeah, we know the kids, what the kids are watching, Euphoria.
01:53:46
Speaker
This is how we get the backdoor pilot for the Gambit TV series. Like, ah you know, you get Channing Tatum. You know, he comes in and he's like, oh, it's me from the bayou.
01:53:57
Speaker
I'm going to make a name for myself or whatever he fucking says in Deadpool. The one funny bit in Deadpool, because I hate that movie, but I did just because Channing Tatum's like, you know, a funny guy that I was like, okay, movie. I did chuckle there.
01:54:14
Speaker
I've still never seen that movie. You're not you're not missing anything. ah When Wesley Snipes shows up, his triumphant return is Blade. He's like the first one. triumphant return from tax evasion.
01:54:27
Speaker
The first thing he says is like, calls like Deadpool and Wolverine or something. That's Yeah. I'm like, what happening? What?
01:54:41
Speaker
the Because someone pointed out in the original Blade movie, ah you know, he's the character, at least, you know, Wesley Snipes' conception of it, totally unflappable, its all the time monotone, except for the time the cops shoot at him, where he's like, motherfucker, you out of your damn mind? Which is funny, that juxtaposition having that. But him, could you know, throwing the R slur around is like, what is what are we doing here?
01:55:09
Speaker
Tax evasion. That movie is tax evasion incarnate. um I feel like we don't have much else to say about Euphoria. Yeah, when we first were saying that we were going this, like, oh, fucking, this is going to be a goldmine of fucking, is going to be so messy and, like, ripe with with fucking discourse. And hopefully something fucking interesting happens ah as it goes along. But honestly, I could see this becoming, like, it instead of just doing weekly, we'd just be like, all right, every couple episodes, maybe we see what to check in or something. Because, like, it...
01:55:47
Speaker
We're really stretching it here as is And there's only eight episodes, you know? So feel like whatever ends up happening, they don't really have a lot, you know? And I imagine that these episodes are going to feel very similar to this one. We'll see, you know? Like, I'm down to see this through to the end. But this is also a situation where it's like... I'd love to be proven wrong because sometimes season can have, like, you're like, that's not a good premiere. And then they actually do pull something through. don't think that's going to happen here.
01:56:21
Speaker
But, ah you know, I would like everything to be good. um And, you know, there's, like I said, there's faces we haven't, I would, yeah I don't think she they're going to give her anything of interest to do, but I would like to see Hunter Schaefer. Yeah.
01:56:36
Speaker
It is interesting of like all the breakouts in between season. Austin Abrams is not, they're bringing about Dominic Fike, but Austin Abrams is not, you know, one of the hot. He's busy. He's got, I mean, well, he already filmed Resident Evil, so he's he could he could show up a couple in a Whale Fall. Oh, i can't wait for that.
01:56:57
Speaker
Let me hear the wave. A movie where a guy's getting digested. Let me hear it from the ball. And you mean Pinocchio.
01:57:10
Speaker
Yeah. ah Yeah, I'm looking forward to him as an actor. It's just funny that it's like yeah he's having a big moment. I can't fucking wait for Resident Evil. Yeah. CinemaCon is such a funny thing to hear people post about, like, you're not going to believe this trailer when you see it. Like, this trailer is fucking crazy. It's not even screenings of the movie. And then we don't see the thing.
01:57:34
Speaker
They're like, okay, so we're going to see the trailers? Like, no i like I like that there's still some areas where mystery can be held in promotional stuff. No, I like not knowing stuff, but it's just weird that there's like an E3 for movies. Like, we don't even have E3 anymore. and And like, there's like this, but even E3 was like, no, you can see the trailer, even if you're not watching the thing. you can We'll post the trailers. So, and yeah, it's weird.
01:58:06
Speaker
and I just like that most the biggest, like best received ah announcements came from Warner Brothers, which is openly a company that's about to get bought out. And like I imagine is about to get changed into something completely unrecognizable from all of the fun stuff that it was announced.
01:58:25
Speaker
How many more movies in into the gun verse do you think they're going to get before it ah before the gun jams? I think that they're going to get a third Superman movie, but the third Superman movie is when he's going to come out and be like, it was about Israel all all along. Yeah. He's going to like burn all of the bridges, you know, like that's where it's, it's, it's going to be literally about like the formation of Israel in, in like using Superman as a metaphor for that. So yeah. Look out for that one, folks. Like, like Sleuther forms Israel or something. Yeah. Yeah.
01:59:00
Speaker
He's like the the only, ah what was the name of the country in that Superman movie? Dracovia, Bracovia, something like that. Yeah, i already forgot. Dracovia is like the only democracy in the Middle East is what they'll say.
01:59:16
Speaker
Bravia in John. Bravia. Yeah, that's right. Mm-hmm. oh Yeah, ah it's a shame because, you know, is even if I have my qualms with his DCU as is, ah I mean, it's like, it's mixed because it's like, I like the stuff, like, I like Superman, but then it's like, there's stuff that, like, doesn't work for me and that, and then...
01:59:41
Speaker
I really liked Peacemaker season one and then season two was like mostly good. And but then it's like, ah, we're actually the white supremacy critique. We seem like we're building up to. It's not about that. We're setting up something for the Superman sequel, actually.
01:59:58
Speaker
it
02:00:01
Speaker
It's like, okay, that's how you're ending your season and of supposedly the show because he already said before any of this, like, restructuring or the purchase Warner Bros. happening, he was saying there's no plans for Peacemaker Season 3 that, like, you know, either, you know, you're going to see that character in other projects or something.
02:00:19
Speaker
ah Here, it's spoilers for the of Peacemaker Season 2. He ends up in a... i haven't even seen the first season. Like, im I have no nothing no context on this. are do Do you care if I tell you?
02:00:30
Speaker
At this point, no. You know, like, ah like if like at this point you're already there, go for it. He gets thrown into another dimension. ah That's like a prison for like super powered people. Like it's basically like Gitmo for, for superheroes. And so ah it's the father of the guy that he killed in the suicide squad wants revenge and throws them into this other dimension.
02:00:57
Speaker
um and that's like it's like right after he gets a happy end like i do like that the rug pull of like it almost feels like almost like a kind of ramey-esque cynicism well and also with james gunn's other stuff where he has a mean streak of like ah thought this gonna be a happy ending psych but the fact that it's just set up for like this that's supposedly that other dimensions would be like a big part of like other dcu stuff and mana tomorrow that i was just like yeah and then Like, even if the show continues, it'll probably have another name because his friends form like ah like ah a private investigation company that's like a thing, a group from the comics that maybe two people have heard of called Checkmate or something. And they're like, yeah, it'll probably be like a Checkmate show when it comes back. I'd be like, just call it...
02:01:42
Speaker
Because some people were defending and be like, well, if Peacemaker's barely in the show, why are we still call Peacemaker? I'm like, I don't care. Call it Peacemaker. That's the show that people are watching. Like, you can cause This is fucking John Cena. Everybody knows who John Cena is. That's why you call it Peacemaker. i don't know. I'm so out on the superhero stuff. And I feel like even with the CinemaCon stuff, with, like, Infinity Vision, with superheroes... and Oh, that's so funny because because it's just like...
02:02:08
Speaker
That they didn't want to move dates because, you know, like, because are they still the opening the same day as Dune? Yeah. All they're doing is they're turning up the brightness on the bulbs and they're jacking the sound systems. That's all they're doing. Because Dune is getting the IMAX screen. So yeah they're just like, oh, we also have a different, do you guys like different formats as witnessed by the sinners in one battle? So yeah, we have, we have another Yeah.
02:02:35
Speaker
So we just fucking whip something out of our asses and and you're going to eat it because you're fucking piggies. Enjoy the slop. It's depressing seeing Robert Downey Jr. ah like parade around. for It was so funny how flat like his bit with Chris Evans was at the Oscars. Oh, perfect.
02:02:57
Speaker
It was like, to to the room of people that just awarded you for escaping the slot machine, you're almost like throwing it back in their face and then to just be met with cricket. it's with with like As you deserve.
02:03:10
Speaker
With a poorly written... bit Yeah, because I know there's people are like, oh good for him. Get that bag. i don't give a shit. Like, you like fucking he has money already. He's doing fine. Like, he could have just done more real movies.
02:03:26
Speaker
Exactly. Instead of playing Dr. Doom, which they've confirmed his Doom performance will have an accent. Yaximas, my name My name is Doom.
02:03:42
Speaker
My lightning.
02:03:47
Speaker
and Finally. Actually, on that note, I saw there's a new Sacha Baron Cohen film coming out soon to Netflix, and I was like, oh. Guys, you won't believe if you haven't heard or seen the trailer for this movie, imagine a world.
02:04:03
Speaker
ah har Let me do a round circle. Imagine a world where women who were in charge instead of men. what like it's like It's like a 2000s era comedy. This is like a 2000s era comedy starring like Mel Gibson or something, but now it's a Netflix slop streaming slop with Shasha Barrett-Cohen.
02:04:28
Speaker
I'm shocked Amy Schumer isn't in it. like It seems like Amy Schumer has written all over this. The female lead is Rosamund Pike. Gone girl herself. I'm just shocked by that.
02:04:40
Speaker
I'm just shocked by that. i Yeah, i mean, fucking Rosamund Pike. were you Fucking euphoria. Fucking euphoria. Fucking Sam Levinson, fucking piece of shit.
02:04:53
Speaker
Fucking hiring Eli Roth all the time. Who do you think he is? Fucking a piece of shit. Turning in into Joe Biden. z What if the Batman arc with Eli Roth is like good? What if it's just another Batman movie? What if he just does the Dark Knight? It's Sam Levinson's Dark Knight. Like they just are like, yeah, forget Mexico and the smuggling. This is actually about Eli Roth. The perfect Bruce Wayne we've been waiting for.
02:05:21
Speaker
they keep trying to fan cast online. Who's going to be the next Bruce Wayne? Guys, it's been right in front of you. It's Eli Roth. You went wrong. The guy who made Death Wish. You know, the one you like. Everyone's favorite Death Wish.
02:05:34
Speaker
nice Oh, no. I'm, ah you know, I'd be happier if it went that direction. Unfortunately, we're stuck in this area where it feels like they have nothing going on. um All the provocation, like everything that they're trying to provoke feels empty and toothless. the The exciting filmmaking that once was there has been pulled back. Zendaya is still trying, but it seems like everything else is just not there. So I'm excited to see what else happens here. But, you know, I mean, she's optimistic. She's still watchable, even if everything around her sucks shit and is boring. Like you said, like she's like giving it her all. She's a pro. I mean, she's also we should say being paid, paid I think, a million per episode. So good for her.
02:06:25
Speaker
Yeah. Get that bag. ah But if you are going to pay that much to get her back, maybe give her something like interesting. I'm just spitballing.
02:06:40
Speaker
Not to tell you what to do, to Mr. Levinson. You know, you're you're you're making this, you know, but, you know, there's room for improvement. Yeah. Yeah, i don't know. I'm disappointed that wasn't more of a train wreck, to be honest. But ultimately, I'm excited to see where this goes.
02:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm i am interested interested not in like as like I'm engaged in the plot, but it's just like like we said, like the the car wreck effect of it all. of Like what what the fuck is... Because even though there's so many things that he throws at the first episode, it's also nothing. So it doesn't really give a shape of like,
02:07:20
Speaker
all right, so she's going work for Alamo. Like, is's what what what are we goingnna what are we doing here? Like, is it going to be like a drug war between Alamo and Martha Kelly or something? Well, it's like they gave us the bit of that, but then it's like we don't have many of the stakes plotted out beyond that. Like, they're setting up a million other new storylines with what we've already had given. So it's like everything feels weightless. I don't know. Not inspiring a lot of confidence.
02:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, no. The finale, the last episode, said all the the episode titles. You know, made episode title naming can and in and of itself be be an art form. ah i don't I'm not saying that for these episode titles, but the title is called In God We Trust of the finale. So I think it's going to be 100% what you're saying of like introducing religion as like a and Not just as like a give Rue interiority, but I think that's almost like their Hail Mary at a like end game for her of like that. They're like, well, are we just going keep having a relapsing again? i don't know how we like end that. She's become religious.
02:08:30
Speaker
Well, it was even in the plot line of the first season and the second season. And even think about the, yeah like on the score, there was always this ah gospel choir. Yeah, a gospel choir. Yeah. And it was always leading to this point to technically speaking. It's just now that we're here, it feels more like a gimmick than it does like a natural progression for this character because it came out of nowhere. It didn't, they didn't build to this.
02:08:57
Speaker
No, because like the other stuff we were talking, like the gospel choir and stuff, those felt more like aesthetic flourishes. And even if there was like religion and characters around or like Coleman Domingo, it never felt like that that was like Like, yeah, I get what you're saying. Like, this is this is where it was headed, but also it was just like, there was no, we weren't on any path towards that. If anything, it just seemed like, like okay, Rue's just going to be in a cycle of yeah relapsing and, like, fucking up her life. Like, I mean, which is a real thing that happens in people's lives. And that would be more interesting than her becoming religious, honestly.
02:09:36
Speaker
For sure. Yeah, we we we want to see the natural outcome of her actions, but it feels like we're going to get a like it something that's going to be more optimistic, more sunny. and And I'm not sure if they've even earned that. I'm not sure if they've earned anything. And I feel like that's going to be the constant thing that we're going to come up against with these episodes. There's going to be like ah at least one big deus ex machina, probably several. And that's going to be like reaffirming her faith of like, oh, yeah and that and that also the show gets to be like kind of cheeky about like, ah, you know, we know we're doing a deus ex machina. So it's actually not lazy writing. And it's like, no
02:10:16
Speaker
And it's also like religion can be used as confirmation bias and like any of her wrongdoing that's supported by, you know, her escaping could be seen as like God looking out for her. We've seen it done a million times. It's not like they're doing anything new here. This movie feels like, you know, like the Red scalele or Scare podcast turning Catholic, right? Like it doesn't feel like it actually means it It's like Shia LaBeouf becoming Catholic.
02:10:41
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's that kind of you know, like they don't really mean it kind of thing. Yeah. This feels like the kind of show Shia LaBeouf would be in now. Don't count it out.
02:10:52
Speaker
Who knows? You know, if if they ever get to the bayou, you know, he's stomping around those there. I fuck with the Bible heavy or whatever he said in that. Oh, that's right.
02:11:04
Speaker
ah Andrew Calhan also like two, two sexual abusers in a room. like i was like, oh, he just got to come back too. That's weird. Yeah, that's why I didn't watch it. You know, I was like, you know, I'm i'm interested in the train wreck of Shiloh Luff. I don't need to give Andrew Callahan views. That's the way i looked at it.
02:11:20
Speaker
I was just confused. I was like, I thought they fired him. And oh, he's back. Oh, no, no. He owns it. That's the thing. Yeah, no. I need to leave. I'm sorry. like i line things up yeah I'm sorry. like yeah I don't mean to rush things out.
02:11:37
Speaker
we're done the you're foreign you don't need to get but euphoria I don't know why I said it like that. Like it was like a fruitopia ad.
02:11:49
Speaker
I don't. Yeah, yeah. yeah so I guess just to say, hello, listeners, just before you even get any side of the intro, just to keep the momentum of what we were saying. I was saying that, like, you know, watching Stranger Things as it was unfolding. I like i didn't watch the show, mind you. I only watched the first season.
02:12:04
Speaker
Okay, that's the only season that you needed to see. Like, its's that wasn't even groundbreaking television. It was just solid, you know? Like, it was it was solid nostalgia slop, you know? Like...
02:12:15
Speaker
but But it was also like the perfect like reckoner of like the worst kind of nostalgia slop where it's like, okay, well, this is trying to evoke E.T. But you have to ask yourself the question if it's just doing a beat by beat kind of thing. And, you know, it's trying to evoke the thing rather than authentically have its own emotion. It gets to the point where you're like, well, I could just go and watch E.T. Yeah. Yeah. and Stranger with Things, right? And i don't have to wait like years between seasons. But the point I was ultimately trying to catch you guys up with, audience, is I was saying this, it's like watching like ah an accident that's happening in slow motion. And I'm on the sidelines saying how fucked up it is. And I was comparing that to how I feel about how this final season of The Boys is because I feel like every time I check in on social media, it's like a wake.
02:13:00
Speaker
Yeah. I it's funny that I've I still see some shooters like in replies and then like some of my posts when I rant about it but uh it does kind of feel a little bit of that Stranger Things vibes where it's like everyone's being let down and this is like not even new like I'm of the mindset that the show has been on the decline for a couple seasons you know like uh it has like some fundamental problems just as a show like i'm not even like tackling it as a garth enos adaptation i haven't read i'm gonna pick up the comic soon and read it like everything i see like elvis post about or other like enos fans post about like yeah that sounds really good wish the show did some some stuff like that but uh i i think it skated by on it has a really strong cast uh and it it it can skate especially like Carl Urban and Anthony star. And then also Jack Quaid, although the show is like really done him dirty. I feel like where he's just like a side character. I'm like, is he like the protagonist? And then he'll just occasionally be in the background and be like, Hey, I'm still Jack Quaid. Hey, like you. Yeah.
02:14:13
Speaker
Did he seem to drop off in like later seasons as he's become more famous? or I think that's what it feels like, because like he's kind of just ah a boyfriend of one of the good heroes on the team now. who like so he he's He's supposed to be the moral heart of the thing who always... when Carl Urban who who his character supposed to be almost Punisher like who he's like you know willingly ceded his humanity and becomes increasingly more monstrous the show always walks that back will be like be like at the end of this season like well butch you're finally crossed the line here there's never ah things will never be the same beginning the next season he shows up to the boys like hey let's get the team back together like all right man We're not going to we don't care. We saw you brutally murder an innocent person right in front of us. We're cool with that.
02:15:04
Speaker
ah But, but, but yeah, Jack Quaid's supposed to be the one who's like, no, but you're, it's, you know, stuff is good. Also, I like Billy Joel. That's one of his things. He likes Billy Joel so they can do Billy Joel needle drops.
02:15:16
Speaker
I assume they're saving piano man for the final episode. Cause they haven't done the most obvious one. So there's probably just going to be a montage. Yeah. And set to PN. Who's going get Billy Joel? yeah Why not? What else is he doing? And then kill him. then kill them heavy explode him. That's what that show likes to do with all their cameos. Like a couple episodes ago, they had they basically did like a shittier recreation of This Is The End where Seth Rogen as himself, Kamil Nanjiani, Will Forte, McLovin. named all their real names and then I just said McLovin. That's his name. Christopher Mintz, please, deserves that treatment.
02:15:59
Speaker
Yeah, they're just like they're playing a poker with like another celebrity superhero and then they all get exploded. Like that's the show's like go to punchline out besides like just like the basis like dick and balls humor, which I've seen Yeah. Yeah. it seems like there is some of that immaturity in the comic, but from what I've heard, like it gets past that pretty quickly. And then you get to, cause the thing with Enos, I mostly am just familiar with Enos from his Punisher work, which is excellent. But that it's, there is a lot of shock value stuff, but then you get past that and there's like, Oh, it is like achingly sincere at times. And even if he does have like a very cynical worldview that he puts through his stuff, Uh, it's like, it's like having both contradictory things at the same time, which is true seemingly of like his politics of like, you know, like I think most great comic writers probably are, you know, at best their politics are incoherent. I mean, Uh, uh, other Alan Moore, he's just a straight up leftist, like, right. But he, i mean, he's got other weird stuff. case as well yeah yeah definitely written some shameful things alan moore has but definitely some great things as well uh the the thing about what you were saying about comic book writers and i think kind of a larger umbrella that i can put this with this boys conversation right is like whenever i talk to somebody about it it's like
02:17:21
Speaker
Oh, you should watch the show, you know, so many fucked up things happen and they tell you about how fucked up like each of the different individual people are. Yeah, I can't be sustained over like six or seven seasons. to Correct. It can't.
02:17:37
Speaker
Like, it's like there's a ceiling where it's like, okay, well, I've seen these people do such deplorable things to where I'm a no longer surprised when they do so fucked up things or when fucked up things happen to them. And then be the, you know, when these fucked up things happen, it like, there has to be an escalation point where it's like even more fucked up for the last time. But and but there's like ah jumping the shark because at a certain point there's nowhere else to go to, you know, like ah Jack, Jack Quaid's character got raped like two times last season. and and And the showrunner even said that like one of them is supposed to be kind of like as a bit. I'm like,
02:18:17
Speaker
That was supposed to be funny. cause they're go to for showing the debauchery of these superheroes is always like kink stuff. Like it's like, it's like a surprisingly sex negative show where it's like any sexual deviancy. They're like, well, that's, see that's how you know they're bad. Like, look at all the like weird shit they're doing. Uh, it's like, don't know. Like if if they, if they were just doing that sexual stuff and then not killing people, I'd be like, there that's fine.
02:18:46
Speaker
It really speaks to me in the sense that like what I get from the impressions I do from the boys, like the, like people always share like reaction gifts of like the main people. And I'm like, I don't really like the fact that it's kind of like the American cycle thing all over again, the idea, like, of the wrong people uh you know being like uh my face when you know with this and it's like you shouldn't really be thinking about like your face when unless like it's a really funny but i'd say like ryan cranston and breaking bad gets away because the show is a comedy ultimately
02:19:17
Speaker
I mean, more meaningful ways than the boys. The boys, when it's at its best, which occasionally even in the shittiest moments, it still will shine through that it it is trying to be satirical and comedic. And I think the the guy who's always gifth Anthony Starr is Homelander, their fascist Superman. He's he's not Bryan Cranston level, but he is kind of walking that line where he is deplorable. But it is really funny. He is. Because he's, he's sort like, none of my complaints ah about the show are really about what he's doing. It's really just how much the, like, I kind of get the impulse. Like, when you see how good he is, I kind of get the impulse where you're like well, let's just give a chocolate cake. Like, this is great. Like, I just want to eat chocolate cake all the time. But the problem is, like...
02:20:05
Speaker
but You maybe just set him up in the first season and then save like if he's going to be your big bad every season of the show has been like we got to stop Homelander. So there's like there's you peter out eventually when you have to keep resetting the stakes of like, oh, OK, something else kind of came in the way that we have to do this where it sounds like the comic is more like a monster of the week kind of deal where they're like, oh, we're going after a different superhero team like each issue And then, you know, like Homelander is the final confrontation, but like what it by the time we get like the finales next week and it doesn't feel like we've like we've really built up to anything like, yeah, I guess he killed the president, but he also has been unopposed in his power for several seasons. and So I didn't even really feel feel like that meant anything. i was like, yeah okay, that's just more glory crushed the president's head. The president who surprisingly instead of a Trump riff is like George W. Bush coded, which I mean, I guess the comics were written during that time. I feel like when it is leaning into that more generic kind of like evangelical Republican conservative stuff that like. You could easily make those observations in the two thousands. Like that stuff kind of lands. Like there is a fight to be digs plays like a evangelical preacher superhero. He's has a pretty fun performance.
02:21:22
Speaker
ah But like, yeah, the Trump of it all, I feel like it's really fucked the show. The show has other problems, but like once they decide to lean into like, and I get your fascist Superman bill and you're like,
02:21:33
Speaker
okay, yeah, that's our Trump analog, but like one, it dates the show and it clearly, I feel like a noise Kripke, the the showrunner that when the stuff Trump does stuff that is like one for one, the show, like, cause it's like bad for your satire. If it's like not even an escalation of the reality, cause that's been a storyline this season where Homelanders decided that he's God, you know, like, and he wants to be the one true God in it, like have state religion where he's worshiped and stuff. And then so like, That was like coming out like right around the time that Trump had all the, you know, religious iconography of like him as Jesus and stuff. And he was, and he, his reaction his, he seemed like clearly annoyed. I'm like, yeah, that's not like not great for you that it like, it really dates the show when, if you were just making like kind of just a broader analysis of conservative am America, like there are,
02:22:26
Speaker
and interesting things baked in the idea that this company that manufactures the superheroes is all is an entertainment company, but then also a military, like arms manufacturer, like that's a funny way to poke fun at like the link between entertainment in the military industrial complex, like like like that, that's a fun idea. But they peter out on like things to do with that so quickly other than just reference, like, recent releases or like announcements of superhero things. It was like, Oh, okay. It's kind of reminds me of the doomsday announcement or something, but it's like that. Well, you're not really saying it. You're just mimicking the thing.
02:23:05
Speaker
It's like, it's It's one of those shows where kind of what you were saying before about how the comic seems to be more of like a hero, villain, monster, whatever you want to call it of the week. Like television as we know it today is so averse to serialization in that way. Like I feel like it's so like most streaming shows are so worried about doing like a repetitive cycle within an episode. And they only have eight episodes in a season. Yeah.
02:23:33
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Treat it more like British television at this point. Right. Which is, you know, understandable. Right. But at the same time, in a format sense, we lose something. Right. And and I feel like the boys is showing that. And then also with this Donald Trump comparison, it's like everyone's talking about how this Homelander character is the worst. He needs to die and go away. But then they're shackled to the fan base's reaction to them being so good and the actor being so good.
02:23:58
Speaker
And the parallels being so close, right? Right. Well, like there is a side of this where it's like, it's good to lean into this because it's clearly talking to a certain people. But now we're seeing is as the further that's gone along, the thinner it's gotten and the more hollow the whole project has become. So like it's it's kind of like they ate out on the bill too many times and now they have to pay it. They don't have the funds. That's what it feels like. No, you're're you're spot on. And then it's also just that they've become, you know, you were meant to defeat the dark side, not to join it. It's not that the show was ever the like the greatest thing ever, but it did feel refreshing in the first season, like when that time of all the endless superheroes slapped. But now they're doing all the same sins, like announcing all these spin, like they spent a significant chunk of their final season and setting up a spinoff, like prequel show, And like all these plot threat, like ignoring plot threats that have been set up in previous seasons that like people probably expect to be paid off in service of like, well, ah that's an interesting thing we alluded to that happened in the 60s. Wouldn't you like to see that? And it's like you guys, you guys are ah like doing the thing worse than the thing you're parodying too, because like, exactly.
02:25:15
Speaker
Like they had, they had a spinoff show, which I thought was a good premise where it's like superhero college that if they had just let that be its own thing, i I was enjoying that initially better than the boys because I feel like those characters are like more enjoyable and it's just a fun, you could dick around with that premise a lot, but instead they didn't have, you know, lent it, leaned into the overall story arc of both shows and it fucked both shows over. ah in and And in a way where it's like, man, even Marvel does the tie in stuff better than you guys are doing right now. Like, this is like embarrassing.
02:25:53
Speaker
Well, I would even just say the fact that they made spinoff shows, right? Like if you're if you're making something right, that's poking fun at the way that the popular media is right. Like they're making fun of superhero movies. And they started doing that when superhero movies were still on top. Right. So when it came out, it kind of had a bit of an edge to it. But now it's superhero movies are already on the way out and they're already feeding into the same practices that made people sick of superhero movies in the first place. So when you're selling people on the fact that, oh, we're going to have a whole expanded universe, you know, there's going to be three, five different. The Vaught Cinematic Universe, which is so funny. They're calling it cinema. I'm like, it's their TV show. So it's a cinematic universe.
02:26:36
Speaker
the The closest comparison, right? Like they they think that they are doing something that's really brand new. We're just getting The Walking Dead again. This is the same trajectory and the show is just like the same problems that were with The Walking Dead are present within the boys. And I'm saying this as an outsider, I've never seen an episode, but you know, like that's just the vibe I get.
02:26:57
Speaker
No, you're it's so that's a spot-on comparison. ah ah They should get, that just like with The Walking Dead, they never should have fired Frank Darabont.
02:27:09
Speaker
They should have just gotten Frank Darabont to do The Boys. Well, full circle back to Stranger. I, I, I, I was tempted to watch that final season just when I heard that. Cause he hasn't done shit for like not 20 years, but like, like 15. It's been like a long ass time since he's been on anything. ah so so the reason he didn't work all that period is cause he didn't need the money for all that time. and Yeah.
02:27:38
Speaker
Yeah, because, like, i i I feel like they've said so stuff about what went down with Walking Dead, but I wasn't sure, like, in terms of, like, does he kid does he get a pay... Like, did he get, like, a fat payday outside of the work he did on that first season? Like, because I feel like there was some kind of, like, legal dispute about, like, him being let go and, like, that he was trying to get more... money So I was like, oh, so did did he get paid out from then? He's just been good for a while because that show was printing money for a while. And I don't know, they're still making spinoffs of Daryl's riding his bike around France or something. I don't even see like the stands posting clips of it. I'll just occasionally just I.
02:28:25
Speaker
watch other things because HBO AMC and shutter are like, you know, it's the same thing. So I'll see ads for AMC things. And I'm like, Oh, this is still going on.
02:28:37
Speaker
Well, there was a short, brief period in time where Joe Bob Briggs was introducing a Walking Dead special. Oh, God. so So, like, he did a special where he, like, did the first ah episode from the first season, right? He did actually, he did the first couple episodes of the first season. He went back to it, right? Okay. He did, like, a couple of the spinoffs. And I have to say, because I did watch them, because I did like Joe Bob, and I was like,
02:29:02
Speaker
Let's see where this goes. I wanted to see these things out of context without any understanding of where the show's gone because, like, I gave up during, like, the halfway through season two. So I had no idea what had happened beyond, like, you know, Steven Yeun being killed by... the baseball bat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that whole cliffhanger, which was a good... which was a good thing in theory, but the problem with any cliffhanger is paying it off. And clearly they didn't think that part through. Yeah. But what I will say out of all that ramble, it was that the, the Daryl Dixon show the first C the first episode or two, i just watched that.
02:29:37
Speaker
It was actually good. Like that for whatever reason, i was like, this is actually like a good, well-told story so far with decent action for television. I was like, this is actually working ways that other walking dead things. So, I would never accuse Norman Reedus of being a great actor, but I suspect maybe his time with Hideo Kojima, who is, you know, as we all know, is 60 percent movies, according to his Twitter profile that that that like 40 percent pervert. Yeah. So I'm thinking some of that 60% like rubbed off on Norman Reed is because he is legit good in those games. Like, especially like I'm not that far into two so far, but I'm like, damn, like he is kind of the perfect game protagonist in terms of like, especially for Kojima thing where like the characters like just grizzled and like terse and, and he'll just just be like asking questions about like lore specific jargon, you know, like Metal Gear, like, like he's, he's good at that kind of shit.
02:30:36
Speaker
he also has like a brevity to him he doesn't like he takes himself seriously in terms of like that's his bit right people like the grizzled nature to him but he's he can be light-hearted he can be comedic when the moment calls for it which is obviously something that you want when you have somebody who's supposed to be like uh almost an anti-hero you don't know if he's going to be a good guy or a bad guy at any moment but he ultimately leans on like what the ultimate good, you know, kind of like a classic Western trope. That's why I like him, you know, as a character and why it worked in that a little snippet that I saw. um But yeah, um when it comes to ah the larger television conversation of the boys, um i just feel like this is a reason why I don't usually watch television.
02:31:19
Speaker
I feel like what we're talking about today is also a great example of why don't watch television usually. I feel like it's not when we get to that. it's for okay like after all that preamble i guess i will will introduce the hot kisses these guys got juice doug and tony we're back you know last we left off uh yeah i'm gonna combine this with the i hadn't posted like our euphoria season one episode because i'd been so i was gonna combine that that talk with this you know but ah so So last thing people would have heard from us is ah is our pit coverage. But it's funny that like after the pit ended, just a lot of shitty TV.
02:31:58
Speaker
yeah Yep. Just one hour. And for me personally, I have no horse in this race. I'm a movie man. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm a um but movie man. But when it comes to this show in particular, we started this good because because the listener at home, they're not going to notice the jump. They're going to be like, why are these guys addressing it so much? But what I will say is that when the first when the show first came out, the whole, oh, what's going to happen with this like train wreck of season three? And now the conversation has moved to a different point, as well as the show has evolved to such a different point to where it's like,
02:32:32
Speaker
it's, it's almost like the least interesting outcome because it almost feels like we're getting what happened with the idol again. And it's some ways interesting. In some ways it's more boring than the idol in some ways, just because by virtue of them having talented ensemble, it is, it's not as bad as the idol, but also, you know what I mean? Where it's like the decisions they're making with these characters are like, just,
02:32:59
Speaker
the most uninspired directions they could do and maybe that's like a way to do it is to go through characters instead of episode by episode because like i i don't even know and remember at this point like what happens in each specific episode uh but it'd be easier just to chart through loosely chronological as we get to it and obviously other characters will come up as they come up right and yeah And one thing we should just say out the gate, right? Because it there's two things, actually, we should say out the gate. So one, it's very clear that they very rarely got all of the same actors in the same room. But getting like an Arrested Development season three or four scenario here.
02:33:38
Speaker
and And I would say as flawed as that season is, and season four actually grew on me, but like ah that that eats the show's lunch in terms of like it it still was able to, it recontextual it it reconfigured some of its writing patterns and joke delivery to fit that format of like, oh, we're going to follow one of these. Actors and characters per episode so you would see like like Rashomon style like like certain things play out from multiple perspectives I think they leaned into that in a fun way. There's not any creative use of that limitation here. There's just scenes where it's just Jacob Elordi in a house by himself and It's like oh no you didn't have anyone else I
02:34:27
Speaker
They're like, okay, we've got him in between like Gilmore del Toro's Frankenstein and Wuthering Heights. Yeah. Like maybe they got him for like, you know, a couple weeks max because it feels like we only see him at the house, right? He never leaves that location. Other people come to him, right? Yeah. Yeah. uh it goes to like his motivations as a character right like it's completely different from how he was in the first couple of seasons right before he was a lot more of a effective skeething mastermind i kept i kept waiting for this to be like the like oh that he's been repressed since he's like tried to like you know live legitly well not legitly but like you know like Do do the nuclear family attempt, you know, like the normal life and that but that all these like setbacks, we're eventually get him snap and he becomes the old Nate. Like no, none of that's happening. He's basically in like a shitty Coen Brothers movie.
Euphoria's Shift from Neo-Western Themes
02:35:23
Speaker
Where he just, like, ah owes money, is really bad at scheming, which could be fun. like Like, now that I said that out loud, like, Coen Brothers, get back to the together, cast Jacob Elordi. Like, that would be... I'd watch i fucking watch that. ah But, yeah.
02:35:39
Speaker
But in this execution of it, it's so fucking repetitive. Like, even if I was to the divorce the idea of, like, that this is, like, a different Nate and, like, that they're just... Because this season has basically just become, like...
02:35:53
Speaker
they they've kind of abandoned even the neo-western of like through story i mean they come back in and out of it i guess that you know they still have al alamo brown they can lean on yeah it's the alamo stuff and specifically the henchman that's all the western stuff has been relegated to which is bizarre yeah it's it's a lack of because when they said like oh it's gonna you know there's gonna be Mexico's gonna be part of the season I'm like well there's potential there for some kind of genre riff like it'd probably be in poor taste but you know I like western so like it would be it could be a fun exercise but no they don't they don't do that all it's basically the show is just like they were literal yeah the old Mexico is literally there yeah the first step no we you saw it she went on the board across the border ah that funny yeah funny it was therefore Mexico was there
02:36:44
Speaker
This is just shitty GTA, like in terms of like, it like the student and not that even GTA is, you know, that's the easiest joke to make of how tired their satire is. But but by comparison, this GTA looks like Citizen Kane in terms of like the observations they're making.
02:37:04
Speaker
100 the problem because like if we're going to make the gta comparison and i've heard it before so you know i've indulged it in thinking about it in time and time and the reason it like gta beats this in my eyes is because like gta is more of a brazen satire it will go a bit further especially in the older games right and i feel like in the newer ones they are kind of sanding it out and i think gta 6 specifically when that comes out it's not going to be as crass as like the other ones have been i feel like the games have kind of been in that trajectory and the problem with euphoria is that like in gta it would be crass but there would be commentary actually it would be you know actually saying something and sometimes with this what euphoria is doing is like the base most basic commentary it could have gone a bit
02:37:50
Speaker
further with all that stuff and it feels like the reasons it doesn't go further is because of sam levinson and like it really does feel like a young quentin tarantino in the worst ways like the the ways in which it doesn't um actually drill into the meanings of the words or rather trying to like make it as flowery as possible and i think that there's a reason why films like that don't get made anymore because you have to do it in a very very particular way and you don't then you really fall on your face face and I feel like that's what's happening here with Sam Levinson he thinks he's a lot more talented than he actually is because the the dialogue he's given he clearly thinks some of his dialogue's inspired when you'll hear like Alma Brown with his minions and they'll spend far too long in a scene going back and forth like with with their banter like he thinks this is really good. And like, there's good actors in those scenes, but they're nothing they're saying is of any consequence at all. I mean, I like when the one guy references Paladin cause I've watched that Western, but that's just, that's, that's just like the easiest member barrier. I'm like, who is that for? You know, like I've watched old TV Westerns cause of my dad. Like, I don't know ah any of the show's fan base is going to know have gun, will travel. Yeah.
02:39:03
Speaker
Be like, oh, they played the Hampton Travel theme song. He is quite signaling to Quentin Tarantino. Like, that's what what it is, right? Because Tarantino loves those Westerns, right? And clearly the show trying to harken to some, like, grand American, like, yeah early colonial ah capitalist message, right? And there's certain characters we can talk about that specifically more on. But when it comes to what Sam Levinson is trying to do, Like, I don't feel as though we're mounting to a place where the commentary is going to meet what it's promising, which is not something that I'm saying because I just have some kind of bias against what we've seen so far. I see it as like a pattern of Sam Levinson at this point, you know, with like two season two with Malcolm and Marie. with the idol, you know, this just seems to be happening with this project. So I feel like we're in that rut again, where the trajectory is starting to fall into that fall and descent period. And it's like, it's going to be presenting itself as more shocking than I actually believe it's going to
02:40:06
Speaker
Yeah. And I feel like there's just no North star to guide the show because, you know, originally at the outset, he, you know, was very straightforward about, even though if it's not a one-to-one that he said like Rue's struggles with addiction are somewhat, he's drawing from his own experiences with, with substance abuse. And I like, I,
02:40:28
Speaker
I don't even, if there is a self-insert character at this, at this part, at this point, it's probably like Judd Apatow's daughter, right? Like, I don't even think,
Character Arcs: Cassie's Development
02:40:38
Speaker
I don't think he like sees himself in these characters anymore, which is troubling if it's the Judd Apatow's daughter, ah if if she's if she's the point of view because she's like the slut she Like and one, like, like be like, ah just to see sex workers. This is this is have you ever thought that like sex work is like exploitive? Have you ever considered that?
02:41:05
Speaker
Have you considered that? The sex work conversation is like, oh, wait, that's a bigger thing. i do want to drill into Maude Apatow really quickly in the sense that like it's it's a tale as old as time.
02:41:19
Speaker
America is more efficient when you're breaking the rules and getting away with it and paying off the right people rather than when you're following them. Right. And this show is really getting at that and also drawing direct parallels between ah the Alamo strip club slash like like prostitute, den. Brothel, club, yeah.
02:41:41
Speaker
Sex trafficking, right? We called that out in our first episode, right? And it's saying that that is analogous to OnlyFans, right? And I do think that there are some massively problematic conflations. I do think that there are some interesting observations they could have said. You know, I think that there are ways that could go down. I think that, like, making Maddie the character she seems that she's going to become is is pretty nefarious um and and not in interesting way, like in a way that's like benign evil, you know, like it makes sense that they'd go this way, but it's like, I didn't want to see.
02:42:17
Speaker
I didn't want to see her become a pimp. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah. Yeah. that wasn't on. I like that actress. I kept waiting for them to... Because the idea of when she's introduced that you know ah that she's putting on airs and she's really living below her means but is trying to exude ah wealth and and success. There could be something there in that arc. like I saw so someone make the observation. like I don't think they were like praising the show. They just thought it was interesting in terms of... like
02:42:51
Speaker
how the show's like depictions of class because like ah most shows kind of exist in like a perpetual like even if it takes place now it still feels like it's like in the 2010s in terms and like there's still like an like the characters are like upper middle class and and stuff like you don't really have shows or say things that deal with like like ah other than like early seasons of Atlanta where I'm thinking like where the show like oh yeah this is what with being poor is like Like, you know, so sure um you you could you could have done something interesting with that with Matt, because like there's there's no we don't see any in-betweens. We just see people who are struggling like her and then like the the the outmost excess, you know, like like that influencers like house, you know, like that's supposed to be like like fucking like Caligula's palace, basically, you know, like it's like like what a den of debauchery.
02:43:49
Speaker
Well, it's this idea of America itself, right? The idea of like anybody can make it if you pull yourself up by the bru bootstraps and just know how to make it ahead, right? That's because that's kind of the thesis of the season so far where Rue, it's like she's incompetent based on her A, on her own willingness to like grow up in quotations, right? And then B, in a way of like trying to like know what she needs, you know, rec rectify the parts of herself that she's not kind of coming to terms with. And the the problem is, is that we don't have that with all of the characters. We have that with just like couple and everybody else is just broad strokes. Here's the most two dimensional version of all of that.
02:44:28
Speaker
I don't recognize Cassie from the first season to this one, right? I feel like what she's done with Sydney Sweeney has gone completely off the rails. Yeah. It's really leaned into and there could be something interesting playing at like, you know, quote unquote, like the culture war aspect around her outside life, like following like in between seasons, like, you know, like. oh, like she's doing, you know, right wing dog whistle jeans commercials and stuff like that. Like they they say that she, ah well, that that like she's in this like, you know, conservative, like neighbor, you know, rich affluent neighborhood.
02:45:10
Speaker
But like the the show doesn't have any like actual commentary on her politically. Like, like I mean, in the most recent episode, you see like that she's like rage baiting to like up her engagement, like, you know, like saying stuff like,
02:45:25
Speaker
someone's like like you sound like a liberal and then she says like you know i'm not our slur you know like like shit shit like that although although i would still count you know people are like well cassie's not conservative she's just you know she doesn't have any actual thoughts she's just you know trying to you know profit off the rage bay i'm like well that's concern you know like i'm Most conservative grafters don't actually believe anything. They're just, they're like failed actors and, you know, like, um I don't know if I just like make this my thing.
02:45:59
Speaker
hmm. I feel like Cassie is now becoming less an actual stand in for who she is. Right. I think that people are reading it as like as a commentary on Sydney Sweeney. I think that like to some degree it is. But I do think that it it's also a commentary on how people perceive Euphoria as a show. It's about how it's the terrible carnival. Step right up. We're going to show you all these grotesque things, these like horrible, you know, perverted, you know, Sam Levinson wet there in quotations. And all of it's a provocation, right? It's supposed to be like, everybody's watching the show because they assume that all these terrible things are happening. And, you know, by all accounts, it's like no more terrible than what most...
02:46:43
Speaker
productions have right so it's like ultimately there was nothing really people could get Clevenson on but he's still annoying as fuck and is not a great filmmaker so it's like it's an annoying provocation because it's so hollow because I'm like we we keep saying like oh he like he's trying to be like i went there but I'm like what is like the worst thing he even depicts in the in the season I mean, there are things that like she's filming for her OnlyFans page that I've seen other sex workers comment like, hey I don't know if like the age play stuff that would probably get flagged. Like you may i probably might not be able to do like to do that bad shit. But like, ah and like this is stuff that you could see in an R rated movie. Like, like she's moaning and you see all the toys laid out and stuff and she grows really tall and presses her tits against some glass. I'm like, this is like very basic pervert stuff. Like it's not, it doesn't even feel perverted.
02:47:39
Speaker
Actually, that that whole kaiju moment was a perfect representation of that, right? Because I think a more interesting scene, a version of that scene, would have been if she was just monstrous, right? If she wasn't sexualized in that moment, if she was just literally destroying buildings exactly as Godzilla would.
02:47:57
Speaker
And that would feel more like Cassie than we knew. Yeah. Ironically, yeah. Right. Instead, what this is, is that like instead it objectifies her quite literally, right? Like in in a way that the satire is unaware that it's it's doing, right? Like it feels like it's trying to be above ah ah the objectification. It feels like it's trying to have a commentary upon it, but it actually comes across as just still doing the thing. and and And I'm not saying that to complain about, you know, the prosthetic boobs going through the windows because that's hilarious. Yeah, it's a fun bit, but it just feels tired like a lot, like a rest of it. Like, it it just made, I was just like, man, gauntlet drop because the bar is low here, but Tim Burton, your Attack of the 50-Foot Woman movie, you but you does the i don't think he watches Euphoria, but but you've been called out, sir. Time to break it bring the heat. bring Bring that Mars Attacks pervert energy.
02:48:57
Speaker
see like so like the other day, were like on Twitter showing like ah pervert lists, right? Like pervert movie lists, right? And you need to have, like a lot of the lists were just like strict standard like romance films, you know? Yeah. Like kinky stuff. and I'm like, no, they have to be like things that are not specifically romances, but the perversion comes across to spite Like how the Grinch stole Christmas or the so oh my god the super, the super Mario brothers movie is weirdly horny in parts, you know, like stuff like that.
02:49:30
Speaker
You get it right. Like things where it's like, that's not the intention, but they can't help it because it just ends up coming across in that way. right Yeah, that would be my litmus test for it. Right. And
Inconsistencies in Character and Theme
02:49:41
Speaker
that's the same exact deal that's happening here with Sam Levinson is that they think that they're making these propagations. they They think that that's the stuff that's most interesting. But in reality, it's like I care a lot more about the catty petty drama. Yeah. Yeah. Feels like an episode with Desperate Housewives. You know, that's when the show is at its best. You know, when when they're when they have that wedding. Right. And that old friend comes in and she's pregnant. I'm like, that's one of the best parts of the season so far. If this show was like that, like 90 percent of the time, I'd be on board.
02:50:11
Speaker
And is checked out as ah ah Lordy is and like how he's solely not na Nate Jacobs anymore. Like I like that. ah but I like i parts of that episode and just seeing him in that like suburban bubble, like they're like, there's fun you could have there, like in a very, you know, like desperate housewives way, especially like the interplay of like, his dad I assume those are probably the last scenes we're getting of Eric Dane. Like, it doesn't feel like narratively he might, unless they got like some other one more day before he passed of of him in it. ah
02:50:51
Speaker
It's a shame. I mean, cause he's, he's a great actor, especially in the the first two seasons. Like ah i think, I think he's doing all that he physically can in in his, his scenes.
02:51:04
Speaker
It's just that the show is, it's drunk. Yeah. Yeah, they don't really give it's it's kind of it feels feels weird watching that be like, this is the last I'm gonna see of this actor. and these are like the final words you're giving him to say on screen. Like, like it just it's it's and Like, sure, I get, like, okay, ah Cal has been outed as, you like, he's a registered sex offender now. Like, he's, like, washed up or whatever. and And, like, there could be something to to that arc, but it should lean into, like,
02:51:37
Speaker
the sadness of it, like even if he has done bad stuff, stuff the show has, you know, i feel like that's just good drama when you can have ah empathy for someone who's, you know, like a horrid person and and like it portrayed...
02:51:54
Speaker
I think they needed to go in the opposite direction. I don't think he should have come back. I think that the way that they could in season two, they could have cut him out and would have been better. you know They could have just been like, he's in prison. Yeah, good. Exactly. Right. and And the reason I say that is because Nate Jacobs whole like arc this season is about like how he has to take over what his father was doing. And he's completely inadequate at it.
02:52:18
Speaker
But the problem is, is that we don't see any of his inadequacy and he's still talking to his father. His father could just give him advice, but it's just literally because he's so prideful that he doesn't reach out to other people. Right. And there's a degree where that's interesting, but then there's a point where logic leaves that scenario where he could, you know, reach out to at least somebody who could help in that scenario. And he does. And it's the most boring way for all of this to play it because it's so expected and The least, the most shocking moments are when Sydney Sweeney's evolved, mainly because like, I'm so shocked at how many scenes that they don't share together. Right. Yeah, exactly. think they get them apart pretty quickly. I feel like after the, the wedding stuff and, and, and just, uh, what, what, One more note on Cal, because I agree that that's probably the best direction to do with Cal is just to to write him off, like, instead of doing any of this, which sucks to to see this this great actor given, like, nothing. It's just it's just it's just shitty that they play, like, his sexual stuff as ah as a joke. Like, the only time it's brought, like, when you when Nate's calling him out of, like, no, you like you were closeted, dad, it fucked you up. Like that could be the start of an interesting scene confrontation between these two. And then it it just plays out, plays it for a joke where he like, well, I'm not gay. I was just pitching, not catching. And it was like, no, no, did the show the show itself had done but like, there was like a whole flashback in beginning of one episode where it showed like his, his like, you know, first like boy crush and like, How, you know, like kind of losing that like was just formative thing for him. And then to play that off now, like, like a joke, it just is like really weird.
02:54:01
Speaker
he He's fun. He pulled a Kevin Spacey, right? Let's be honest here. Right. And ah the show's playing it as if like Kevin Spacey were in that role. Right. The idea that he would be so, you know, flippant about it and the people around him would just be like, oh well, he's here.
02:54:15
Speaker
You know, I think there's something gross about that. You know? Yeah. Why isn't everyone at the wedding being like, why is there a sex offender? Exactly. I feel like everybody should be scandalized. Hunter Schaefer shouldn't be like, you know, oh, let's have a little snippy conversation. I feel like she'd be like disgusted to see him there, you know? Yeah, there' a lot she had porn of it or her, you know.
02:54:37
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. Like, that's fucked up, you know. so but I feel like they they should have at least attempted to have that conversation, mainly because it's more interesting and ah deepening for these characters than the alternative. And the alternative feels like it's almost like, you know, caping for that perspective, which I don't like.
02:54:59
Speaker
Because, yeah, he even says something to the effect of, like, I thought you were older or something about about ah about her. And um it's just so tone deaf. Like, I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah. no justification. And I'm not saying that to, you know, like tar and feather Sam Levinson. I'm not going to sit on this podcast and be like, you know, stop him from making television. But what I am saying is that it's like he's trying to be provocative and he doesn't understand the areas where he his provocation comes across as just ignorance. And and that's what getting at.
02:55:32
Speaker
Because there's a world in which that character justifies his actions to himself, which I buy, but it's with how it's contextualized and how everyone reacts to those justifications. Because they're kind of just like, oh, you you know, it's like, no, this man is the pedophile.
02:55:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's nuts. It's nuts. But I guess we're living in a world where Brett Ratner is with ah Trump and China. So, you know, I guess like that's how ah seriously people take that. And it would be more interesting if Sam Levinson was commenting upon that, but he's not. It sounds like instead he's whatever. It sounds like he's a part of whatever...
02:56:13
Speaker
establishment that doesn't see that stuff and cares more about other ways of provoking. But this this season, we kind of get back to Cassie a little bit. um Like, I feel like Sydney Sweeney herself, again, is doing a good performance. I don't think that she's the problem. She's, she's, like good yeah, no, I would, I would say that she, her performance in a vacuum of itself is straight up good. It's just like what they're doing with it. And the, I mean, the fact that the discongruity between those versions of of Cassie, like there's not enough connective tissue there. Like that's just like an overall show problem for a lot of these characters where we, they just want to jump to like them being in this place. Cause he, Sam O'Buson wants to do this thing and they haven't like justified or like made us the audience in on like how the character could have gotten to this place. Realistically, that he doesn't really care that if if that makes sense, that he's just like, I just want to do this. I just want her to do only fans. I just um,
02:57:19
Speaker
you know, Rue to be, you know, a drug smuggler. I just want a fucking, wait what's, what's, what's other character bullshit that, that he pulls. I mean, with Jules' storyline, like, let's,
02:57:35
Speaker
it's It's a ball whole bunch of nothing. She's ah she's a sugar baby. and But the scenes where Rue's over there, weren't there like early reports that he initially had an idea where it was like a noir season or something? That was it. yeah I feel like there's still some of that left in the draft of like when Jules will be like lounging and like having a cigarette and then Rue is there. Slip dresses yeah more than you'd think. Yeah. Yeah, it's like they didn't he didn't like course correct or like give her anything in place of that when the show pivoted from that idea ah to now she she's just sits around in this this perverts, of ah you know, a penthouse that he has for her. And like, she's a good actress. and She's just not given the best that she's given to do, I feel like.
02:58:29
Speaker
is the moment when like, you know, her sugar daddy has that thing of like, i have a family like, you know, when she bring it, I can't be bringing AIDS home and like, like just like the look on her face, like it's like a wordless like reaction from her of like kind of like the reality of,
02:58:46
Speaker
what she's in setting in i feel like she plays that pretty well like it's i don't think that's an interesting or good storyline for her but like i i i can buy or see the humanity of jewels in that moment whereas other times she's just being used as a like when when she gets brought in on the the soap to like do the painting and with yeah Even if there was no parameters given of like, she she's kind of like like, just do whatever, you know, make make it like that famous picnic in the park painting kind of, but like she's not given any other guidelines. I feel like Jules smart enough to know no nudity family. On a sitcom. this is supposed to be on a sitcom and and nudity that's very prominent with the artwork. Like, there are ways in which her character in that moment is not necessarily approaching this thing in a realistic manner, right? But then there's also the thing where it's like, Mon Apatow definitely was pulling their strings in ways that, you know, you know were realistic, but then also like...
02:59:55
Speaker
ah Like a lot of that stuff, it feels like ah it it goes comes and goes so quickly that it gives Jules no interiority, of course. And then also to talk about the whole like sugar daddy situation. um what i What I really don't like is that in the first couple of seasons with Jules's character, a lot of her mistakes were kind of chalked up to like understanding herself. She was in high school, you know, like identity. And now there was a degree of that with all of the characters. Yeah. And it feels like the way that they're morphing Jules specifically is that she's a very submissive character, one who, like, is not only, you know, being dominated, but she's seeking that out, right? She's, like, prompting Rue to do it. She's saying, like, take me, make me yours. Exactly.
03:00:39
Speaker
and And it's to the point where it's getting in the way of her artistic ambitions. And I'm interested in seeing if the show will meaningfully explore that. But the problem is, is that in all of these seasons so far, this is what happens with Jules is they'll set up something very interesting. And then they kind of don't pay out in the final stretch of the season.
03:01:00
Speaker
It even happened in the first season where it's like it was setting up these things. And I'm like, it's going to be pay off more in the next seasons, but they never did. and it feels like it's always a reset every time we come back to Jules. And it's like, she's more of a mystery and an enigma because like, she's like the, the one that got away. And and I think that the the problem is that as a character, she can never function at full happiness because she has to always see be seen as attainable by Rue, right? Like that's the the neutral. They have to set it to she She can't be self fulfilled because then there's no reason there's no reason you would want Rue or even entertain that possibility if her like life was together. So they have to have like be a mess or like, you know, like trying to not know what she's doing because I'm like, is that like the end game? Like, are they trying to be like and Jules together forever? Because it doesn't feel organic. organic That doesn't feel organic to what this is. I mean, yeah, it's very on the nose of like, oh Romeo and Juliet, Rue, Jules. Oh, that's... So that's something familiar there. But that doesn't mean, i mean, that, that, I don't know if people know about Romeo and Juliet. That's like a tragedy. So you, I, you know, if you're going to be referencing that, it doesn't feel like the natural endpoint is they get together.
03:02:23
Speaker
The reason I think that it it is ultimately going to lead down that path is because there they are trying to find some kind of salvation for Rue. And and i'll I'll just come out the gates before we even get into Rue deeper. it ceases arc.
03:02:36
Speaker
were We're at the point where we see a golf club about to hit her into her head. I'm just going to say right now, she's not dead. she's hang her she's not, so but it would be really funny if she did. i don't, I, yeah I don't think, because they, they, you know, made a point to not show her in the preview for next week. was like, they, that but this would be such Sam Ellis would be a lot dumber than I think he is and I already think he's pretty dumb if this was was how he killed like it on paper killing your protagonists when there's still some episodes left to go and then still having them narrate the proceedings could be interesting artistically like if it was like in in better hands like spoilers for a much better show but uh you know i i said before we talked this felt like sam levison saw too old to die young and was like i can i can do that uh uh and you know the the the seeming protagonist of that show is is dispatched when there's like there are so like two more episodes after he dies
03:03:43
Speaker
Uh, I, you know, like it would, it would surprise me if I was a song. He's like, Oh, yes that's really bull. I should do something bull. But no, I don't think he's doing that. Uh, and also if he, if this is him, it's really stupid.
03:04:00
Speaker
Well, a lot of the reason why Too Old to Die Young actually is able to pull lot of that stuff off is because it's very indulgent. And some of those episodes are as long as other movies, right? So it's like that show is able to get away with things because formally speaking, each episode is technically its own contained narrative. and you could theoretically just watch each of them you would be lost for sure but the arcs are you're able to follow them right and uh with with this show it's trying to do this thing where it's leaning more in the genre sensibilities and we see that with rue for sure as this uh show is moving on where this is trying to become more of like a crime thriller that's heavy on the dialogue uh with with not nearly as much camera invention, by the way. Like we, on previous seasons, what we talked about was what we appreciated was um the invention of how everything was captured. But this is a far more dull show now, like beyond just being captured on film. I feel like the way that it's shot is actually fairly hollow.
03:04:59
Speaker
I'm trying to think of what is even is the most interesting visual of the season, I guess, by default, Kaiju Cassie, just because it's like, yeah, they did build miniatures for her to stomp around. Like, you know, I don't know. I guess by virtue of the fact that it wasn't CGI, was nice, right? But like, really, like the lighting, I guess you could say, was nice with the film that they shot on. But beyond that, that's not something that's exclusive to digital film. You can get that with, you know, color correction. hate to say that. I don't, you know, want to say that. But at the same time, it is true, right? And this whole idea of shooting on film, I would expect there to be a bit more of a stamp. This is the whole thing that we were expecting with Sam Levinson. And he's trying to get his stamp across and is writing this go around. That's the interesting thing about this. He thinks that he's not a good writer. It's a problem, especially with all this like Tarantino wannabe crime stuff like.
03:06:00
Speaker
Like, ah sure, there'll be flourishes of, you know, when Rue is in the middle of, know, we're jumping all around, but she gets pinched and then they, you know, make her an informant. And there's a scene where she's seemingly about to get outed, but then there's like a robbery at the club.
03:06:18
Speaker
I do like the robbers having Obama man. yeah I thought that was a funny bit, but it it it doesn't have, like, again, if this was GTA, it it would it would feel more meaningful or pointed that that was we were getting that imagery or something. Like, the most we've gotten with, though like, yeah, they're rednecks and we see a Confederate flag, so, like, yeah. That's a Nazi flag. Oh, a Nazi. Sorry, sorry, sorry. i There's the same thing to me, Confederate Nazi flag. Yeah.
03:06:50
Speaker
It's unified in their goals. They're the same. But yeah, so so they're neo-Nazis and them wearing Obama masks. It's like, oh, the irony of that are like, you know, like, yeah, they're they're racist. So it's that's funny that they're doing that. But like, that's that's as deep as his idea goes. Like, wouldn't it be funny if...
03:07:10
Speaker
Exactly. um I find that the like, there are certainly things that we could talk about when it comes to like the racial politics of the show, right? Like, specifically, people have talked about like his deploying of the N word, right? And when it comes to all that stuff, it feels like the Tarantino thing again. right it feels like he's not necessarily writing for like a good character he's writing for a good black character right like that you know what i mean like there's this he thinks i think he thinks he's is really clever in the fact that alamo brown isn't set off by like a slur or anything it's the fact that uh he's called a pig and that there's all these conversations about Like a pig is like, oh, it'd be one thing if she called me the N word, but a pig. And he's probably like patting himself on the back. He's like, I'm fucking, I'm so smart. Like, no, you're knowing somebody with principles i'm not. I'm not a two dimensional person who is, you know, annoyed by boring shit. Yeah, like that' the yeah he's not two-dimensional. He's one-dimensional because all his scenes are the exact same. There'll be him being, like, super insecure over a thing like the most recent episode when he's, like, chewing out one of his minions about, like, oh what kind of suit? Is is this a suit for, like, a 6'2 guy who seems like a 5'10 pants or something? Like, you think I'm an anybody man? You think I'm anybody... You know, like, it just goes... repeats that same beat over and over again. I'm like, this is a good actor and you're fucking, wait, you've given him nothing.
03:08:43
Speaker
Like it's trying to be blaxploitation. It's trying to do like classic, like 70s style blaxploitation. And I feel like if they were to do like a standard film that was made by black people, With these actors, it would be good, you know, but with Sam Levinson, it has a different feel to it. Instead, it feels like trying to be something that you're not. And it feels like that's the impression that you get the entire time you're watching these sequences. And what's made worse is that this this incongruity that we've talked about with the sex work, right? The fact that these are blatant sex traffickers who are seen as like the better alternative to the Laurie outcome, which is fair, you know, in the sense that I don't want to be around Nazis. Yeah, they're not Nazis, but they're also horrible. like Yeah, that's yeah let's well let's not in any way try to like, you know, ah talk about sex trafficking as like a morally better choice and analogous to the American dream as much as they do here. And I hope that they go further with calling that out in future episodes. But at the time being, like, especially considering how Maddie's going. Yeah.
03:09:48
Speaker
I was just, gonna go that it feels out of so out of character for her. like Like, I can track the logic of her arc this season in terms of, like, why she would make this pivot in wanting to represent some of Alamo's girls, but it doesn't feel like Maddie at all that she wouldn't be, like, red flags would be going off around Alamo Brown. Like, she's smarter than that to, like,
03:10:12
Speaker
be like even like you could say like oh she's feigning being charmed because she wants something out of him and she sees a business opportunity sure but there does seem to be like in the same way that rue kind of saw alamo genuinely aspirational that like she's kind of like has a glint in her eye of like oh like you know like this is my you know this could be my in and And if she didn't get caught by the cops, I don't think that she would like fully leave. Like, it seems like she's like at
Portrayal of Sex Work and Capitalism
03:10:43
Speaker
least fine being complacent up until that point and was only freaked out a little by the stuff. Would you, wouldn't you agree? Which was weird. The placement of, you know, like the episode was called like Kitty likes to dance or so or something. and in like the scene where she's watching on, on the security feed and, And there's like all this, they're they're cutting between like Cassie at the influencer party. And then you're seeing this girl, like it's like a frat party's like gang banging her or something. And and do you get it? It's like, oh it's the same. do you see see how gross? And like, the it felt it felt weird for, it's like, this is Rue sobering up. like Like, this is like, i it doesn't it doesn't track really. In terms of like, what do you think was happening here?
03:11:32
Speaker
What did she, what what did she think was the business? model I thought they just had big boob boo ladies around and they dance. Yeah. I thought the people who were buying drugs from the people that I used to work for were completely on the level. they were I thought that they like they only brought in ah these women and as strippers and that's it. you know like That was the logic she seemed to be uploading on. And the problem is that Sam Levinson is expecting you to like just buy that. I'm like, I know that Rue can be impulsive. I know that she can be a rash, but I don't that she's that stupid. She comes across as stupid. Yeah.
03:12:08
Speaker
Every character this season is as dumb as he needs them to be. Like we talked about the jewels thing for like whatever story he wants to play because there is a natural like, well, nothing about the season is natural, but like a natural point in what they've already established for that could be like Rue's like awakening or like her like kind of sobering moment. and ah when she takes that one dancer to rehab, that could be something you build off of into like her, like being like, yeah, what am I a part of? This is gross. But doesn't that that's it. That feels disconnected. Like she does is skeeved out by the like rehab place. But then she kind of just puts that out of mind is just like is like whistling, working for Alamo again, you know, like that. it's Like it's a one off scenario. It's one bad apple versus the rest of the scenario. Yes. so so And then like then when she sees the the feed with what's happening with Kitty, then she's like, oh, but this is, I didn't know. I'm like, what? You didn't pick up on that?
03:13:10
Speaker
Like, it's very bizarre how naively they're writing these characters, and it feels only like they're doing that because of plot convenience, and it's it's hack writing. And, ah you know, again, it goes back to this thing where it's like, sure, it could be that commentary thing, but it's like,
03:13:26
Speaker
I don't think that commentary is saying anything particularly new or insightful to justify the broadness or boldness in the swings that it's taking in, at least in the subject matter that it's approaching. So it's like, I would want it to take, go down these paths. I'd want it to, you know, at least explore the similarities that can be drawn because like the idea of only fans and, you know, stripping being the same, not, you can't do a one-to-one, but I do think you can talk about, you know,
03:13:52
Speaker
the commodification of sex work, how the, there's one thing that Maddie said about how Hollywood makes what she says, like $8 billion. And then she says that only fans made seven. So it's like, I think that there's something you could do with that. i think that And in shining a light on like who holds the powers in these industries with, with, without that,
03:14:18
Speaker
demonizing the sex workers themselves, which it does feel like the show and Levinson and Maude Apatow like tisking them for making these to like, come on, ladies, like, you know, think better of yourselves or something when it's kind of being ignorant to the realities that why someone would would be and in this line of work. and And it it doesn't really seem interested in them as people in that way. And like circling back to Cassie, I feel like even Cassie, the Cassie from the first two seasons,
03:14:55
Speaker
would be, I'm not saying that I could never picture her doing OnlyFans, but feel like she would be smarter in a lot of the scenarios. Like when that one influencer is like telling her of like, like it's like a reveal that Maddie's not actually successful and she's just ah an assistant. I'm like, I feel like Cassie would be picking up on that or like be like seeing through like Maddie's, char even though they've been apart for a while. Like that I'm like,
03:15:24
Speaker
did she get a brain injury between season two and three? Like, something I was hoping that they would do. And then there's enough time in the season where they could do this. Right. But I like, I do believe that it would be more interesting if Maddie were to essentially step up as her new husband. Right. Essentially new, like, is what they're showing is like, okay, so when she leaves ah Nate's house, right. There's that shot where you have the two little girls, right. Sitting on the curb. It's like, it's very similar to when we saw them as kids in prior seasons. And actually, again, another one of the better moments of the season, actually. And what that told me, and what it would have been more interesting was if Cassie like kind of saw through some of the ways that Maddie was taking advantage of her and she was the more lenient one, right? The fact that it's like, there's a ah level of like mutual skeeving that's going on. They're still at each other's throats.
03:16:18
Speaker
I think that's actually less interesting. I would have liked it more if like there was a degree where they do make up in a way, you know, where they want to continue their friendship and it evolves because they're older, but instead it's treated like a business and instead it's treated like the the emotions are removed from it. And that's the least interesting way to go for it for me Well, especially building off of like where you left those characters in season two, not that they should make a clean reconciliation, but I agree that there's something there to the idea of like, she, she's like quote, quote free of Nate, but then she, there's like
03:16:54
Speaker
ah eat her relationship with Maddie could be deepening while also, ah you know, exploring the idea of like, is is this just another manipulation, you know, like toxic relationship that she's like deepened herself into, like you said, like like ah a new husband basically that that that she's she's found herself with. Because like there could be something like with the date of it all of like a guy like that ah you know, realizes on the real world doesn't have as much power as he did in high school. So he has to pivot it to a different kind of manipulation, but it doesn't even feel like that's what's happening between him and Cassie. It's besides the literal, just like logistics of like, I don't think they had much time to for these Lordy scenes. of So, but like,
03:17:47
Speaker
ah like there could be ah another way where you put play him profiting off of her only fans and then starting to encourage it when he was against it of like, no, this is the same Nate that we knew. He's just taken a different shape in terms of like his, his manipulation and stuff. But he's just, you know, like I made the Coen brothers, right? he's just like a sad set character. Like he's like a, that's right yeah, he's just desperate and stupid.
03:18:13
Speaker
He doesn't have a gun. He pulled a gun on Maddie in a previous season to like threaten and scare her And I'm not saying like, yeah, you shoot one of those goons that doesn't solve his problems. But you know, Nate's like a kind of a violent guy based on what we've seen prior. Like,
03:18:31
Speaker
One, right? One. You would think that if you knew that guys were coming, you would have something to defend yourself when they came, right? He just runs to the bathroom. assumed the escalation of him going up to the bathroom was like, oh, he's got a weapon up there. And it's like, no, he's just going to keep screaming and be like, I have the money. I'm like, what was your plan?
03:18:52
Speaker
And then also it's like, why wouldn't you move? Right. Like, why would you like, is that at this point it seems like he's not even a land developer. It seems like he's given up on doing anything productive because of the terrible way that that boardroom meeting went. Right. So he tried to get the permits. the Oh, fuck the flower situation, which was like minorly funny during the wedding when he's like saying that to the investor guy. Yeah. It's so blatant, like, you know, small, like local business owner kind of shit where it's like, whatever. fuck the flower
03:19:24
Speaker
the the the The thing with the him is that all of it is made to make him look pathetic. And then to go back to Cassie, it's like her, she's kind of like doing the whole failing upwards thing, right? She's almost kind of unaware of just exactly how she is getting some of these positions. She is aware of certain elements for sure. She's in the driver's seat of many situations, but there are a lot of situations where she's just in the right place in the right time. And what I do think... we're seeing is she definitely had a rise and fall with the Nate wedding. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a full fall again. i wouldn't be surprised if we see her at the strip club by the end of this season. Right. Like kind of feels like that. That's where, cause like having her have this hyper successful only fans and then like still be on top by the end of the season feels incongruous with what it feels like the thesis of this, the show now is, I guess like, ah
03:20:23
Speaker
which is It's just, it's pretty weird. Like, I don't want to, you know, I would never accuse the show of being the most sex positive thing before, but it yeah I feel like in terms of certain, certainly in terms of representation for progressive, you know, like having a trans main main character and ah you know, just the casualness would be the scene. Like, I feel like it was the first season where Rue's giving like the tutorial on like, like dick pics or something. And you're just, they're casually showing like the full frontal male nudity. Like, yes, that is shock stuff. But I feel like that was also just trying to normalize of like, whatever, they're just dicks. Like, you know, like, like that, that, uh, I like that feels like a wholly different spectrum than this season's attitude towards like sex work in terms of like, that this is like the root of all evil.
03:21:17
Speaker
Well, like, it's another reason why this feels like the idol, because I would say the idol is a reactionary piece of fiction. And this is shaping up to be reactionary. Yeah, feels like it's, it's, it's going down that path of, it's not going to comment upon the time, in a sense, where it's like, the time is this way, because of systemic issues, it's going to talk about this time as a problem born of individual greed and, ah you know, the the desire to get ahead the American dream. And it just feels like to that point you were just making, the show has become a less interesting one than it promised. One that used to experiment in ways that excited us and would, you know, make us want to tune in. But now does the most boring thing possible.
03:22:00
Speaker
I hate the fact that we keep on hearing about Fez go in jail. Even the fact that, like, She answers a call. She's like, i I feel like that's like right before she's pulled over. Right. When she saw her, she's like, I love you, bro. Like, I swear to God, if they're building up to a Paul Walker, esque like they were going to get some kind of CG monstrosity or deep fake. And and I don't know. It's going be bad. Yeah.
03:22:31
Speaker
the more respectful thing they could do would be like, she gets a call one day and it's like the wardens telling her that he got stabbed, you know, like I feel like at that point that would be more respectful of what they've been doing. And, and, and also on that point with stuff with Rue, I feel like they've really dropped the ball in terms of like whatever kind of religious, uh,
03:22:51
Speaker
coming she's supposed to have you know like I feel like they've totally sidelined the bible stuff they sideline it and then pay lip service to it in the most recent episode where Maddie brings up like God when she's talking about like her self-fulfillment and being like someone who's like at peace with like the universe and stuff like God is invoked and I feel like there is some kind of religious like bent to like the title of the last episode. And I feel like they've even shown her like in a church in a pew or something. So I'm like, they're going to circle back to that, but they've like, just, they bring it up in the beginning and then they just like, forget about it. And then they're going to bring it back again of like, Oh, she found God. And that was her way out. And that's like so fucking stupid and boring, especially when this social un convenient,
03:23:41
Speaker
When convenient, and then if if this is trying to be some kind of GTA satire on America, like, i you, ah she don't to explore Christianity's complicity in some of these fucked up, like, systems, or, like, I don't know.
03:24:00
Speaker
Instead of that just being, like, the easy way out for for her addiction, like, I don't know. Well, I think the honest answer is that I just don't think that Sam Levinson is as woke as the show is demanding, right? And we're just asking for like a better critique. We're asking for a critique that's closer to our own perspective. But even as a critique that's on their perspective, a critique that fits within their worldview, I think that there are far more entertaining versions of that than this is, you know? I would rather watch a Tarantino film I'd rather watch yeah any given of things that try to be Tarantino things instead of this, you know? i was about to say I'd rather watch Boondock Saints, but that's not true. There's no occasion where would rather watch Boondock Saints.
03:24:45
Speaker
I've never watched Clerks 3 before I've watched Boondock Saints again. yeah i'll watch i'll march I'll watch Clerks 3 when Rosaria Dawson talks about jerking off Benjamin, or no, um fucking George Washington Carpenter.
03:25:00
Speaker
I got to put a whole po the podcast for just a moment. And I just have to say, we got to talk about Napa boys. There's got to be a point where we talk about Napa boys. Oh, yeah. I feel like that'll be a chaser of like, let's talk about something good.
03:25:14
Speaker
yes please. Could we do that? Yes, I'd love that. But ah to get back to the you know, exactly why I brought it up. Oh, yeah. Yeah. same schnuin iish new kids But at the same time, back to you, Paul. Yeah.
03:25:31
Speaker
We should do a stream of the I don't I assume that Bluntmanicronic game has like co-op. So we should we should buy it into like a stream of Bluntmanicronic.
03:25:44
Speaker
I actually, I saw it on the site that I download Switch games from, you know, yeah saw that there was a Blow Manic product I was like, I got to download it. I haven't downloaded it yet, but I have no idea what it's like. I i assume it's like a side-scrolling, like, beat-em-up thing just based on the art style, like like some kind of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, like Simpsons arcade game thing. like it's I'm looking it up. We're we're down, like, i don't even care about Unifority. what's going on here with this game i just want to see it but like you guys saw the images i'll be able to see oh and of course when i type in blunt minute chronic game images the first thing that comes call duty multiple yeah exactly of their words i think yeah it does seem like this is going to be like some kind of like side scrolling beat-em-up thing uh of course there's lots of like hockey stuff of course yeah okay so this is just like exactly what i expected from this maybe closer to like Scott Pilgrim, but yeah it has a less distinct art style. This feels more like a new new a new ground game. you know You remember playing those? That's exactly what this art style looks like, yeah.
03:26:51
Speaker
yeah It doesn't even look congruous with like the art style that's been associated with ah Jane Silent Bob in the past. like Like, yeah, the comic of them in the movies that that that of the Bloodman chronic comes from. like that It doesn't look like that.
03:27:08
Speaker
It blatantly looks like a modern take that's being sold to people who just genuinely enjoy Bloodman Crong. A very funny concept to me. Those are the same people who went on the Kevin's Cruise, you know? That's a Venn diagram to me. And that's why I also love it, too. Yeah, I mean, they got me after. So I feel like we've said on Mike before, I mean, he's just been such a formative part of like just my taste in comedy, but then also just like getting into like filmmaking. You know, it's kind like baby's first indie filmmaker, you know, Kevin Smith. Like that was my in for like all of that shit.
03:27:51
Speaker
hey Hey, if cruises weren't an incubator for disease and plague, then I would go to the View Askew crew, right? Like that just sounds like a stupid, like I'm still going to go to the TCM movie cruise one of these days.
03:28:05
Speaker
That is in the books for me, but I think I may have to do the same. Is Mankiewicz going to be on it? Is he there? Mankiewicz is always there. it's It's all of the people who are on TCM and then they'll have like a whole like ah celebrity, you know, rotating thing. Like Richard Dreyfuss came once. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like imagine how fun that would be. yeah Like, because like, you askew, right, like you get like Randall, right? Randall, sorry. You get Eontay, right? And like, that's funny for its own reason, but to get like a Richard Dreyfuss, you know, like. I want, so yeah, I want someone who can maybe go off and yell at me. Like a Richard Dreyfuss. We're down the rabbit hole. I just want to see TCM Cruise 2025 guests. I want to see like what their most recent one was like, because ah hopefully the noir guy was there. I'm blanking on his name, but I like I like that guy.
03:29:06
Speaker
Okay, so they had some interesting people here. They had Keith Carradine. Steve Tobolowsky. wolowski oh ah Carl Franklin. um they They had a bunch of other people who are notable for, like, older films, people who I wouldn't be so familiar with, people like Stephanie Powers, Leslie Ann Warren. You know, actually, no, of course, Leslie Ann Warren. Nancy Kwan, um Jennifer Grant, Jennifer.
03:29:32
Speaker
Some of these people are like related to famous people. some of these people are still working within the industry. What I'm trying to get out here is that's an interesting thing. You know, that's like, it's framed around, you know, watching a bunch of movies on a boat, but then and like the idea of, you know, going up to the upper deck and it's Ben Mankiewicz with a microphone being like, and now we're doing the wet t-shirt content. I guess it sounds like a lot of fun.
03:29:55
Speaker
That sounds fucking awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Do we have anything else say about Euphoria? Because there's not much to it. Despite we, but there's like there's like five episodes worth that we were catching up on, right? like I feel like there's not even, like like because nothing else happened.
03:30:14
Speaker
yeah that's It's a really lame series the way that it's, and I don't mean season, I mean series the way that it's playing out. Sharon Stone is in this and it doesn't even matter. Like that that that should be grounds for prison oh yeah so So, like, the the the show is framing her character as, like, look at legendary she is, right? And as to whatever reason, they just can't sell her gravitas, and it's because her role is so small. She's barely in this. and it it's It's beyond paper thin. Like, like it's just...
03:30:49
Speaker
Yeah, like you could build something out of some of those, like like with the whole moment when Maude Apatow, when they see Jules' painting and then Maude Apatow very fucked uply like outs Jules' trans and then Sharon Stone's like, oh, this is a whole thing now. Like you could delve into like that kind of corporate mentalities viewpoint on like how they tackle like and representation and navigating like that kind of things like when they have to like you know like show a kind of liberalness but when they actually don't really give a fuck and it's just about the money
03:31:27
Speaker
I'm surprised the show didn't go more down that route. The reason they didn't go further is literally, I think because of the availability of people. Yeah. It literally feels like they needed to fill up a scene or a season or something or an episode of the season. They gave a side part and it just didn't work out. and And going back to this whole like Hollywood critique thing, there were people who were criticizing the studio, ah the first season of that and the style of critique of the system that it was doing.
03:31:53
Speaker
that That feels like fucking the player compared to this, like legitimately the player versus, you know, what it's doing. um the The way that this is commenting upon Hollywood just feels like the same kinds of things you've seen in a million kinds of other projects before. and there's no real new critique it's making that makes this one special to Sam Levinson.
03:32:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, at least the studio has Ice Cube up on stage saying, fuck a i fuck AI. It's something. It's an idea. Instead, we have, oh, you know, if they can say if they can read Shakespeare, they could be on LA nights. it's like It's like not even really clever within like the framework of the show. but like I feel like you could say that about anything in the joking way that they did. It wouldn't be as funny or more clever.
03:32:41
Speaker
I feel like it's not a good sign when in some kind of, you know, I always find it interesting, like when a good actor has to play an actor and whether or not they're depicted as being good or bad at it.
03:32:53
Speaker
i kind of wasn't sure what the show wanted me to think of her audition when she was doing Shakespeare characters. Cause I think it was like supposed to be funny of like, yeah, she's doing Shakespeare for this like small part. Like why, why the fuck she doing that? But then it keeps like going and like zooming in on her audition tape and stuff. I'm like, so is this supposed to be good within the context of the, the world, but then Sharon Stone's kind of like laughing at it. So it's like, it's like it it wants to do both things, like laugh at her and be like, well, she's a natural talent, right?
03:33:26
Speaker
Like, I don't know. It's coming from a neoliberal perspective. We already kind of
Future of 'Euphoria': Challenges and Production
03:33:31
Speaker
established this on the first episode, right? And the reason that it's being in this way is because like it's showing that capitalism is insufficient, right? Like that the the satire is showing that throughout every episode. But the inherent ah thing that's at the back of their minds is that there is no better system, right? they're not good they're They're not like, you know, saying that things should be better in one way or the other. They're just saying this is the way that you have to succeed in the best country in the world is the way they're framing it. Right. And I feel like that's disingenuous for a a sufficient political satire of the time.
03:34:04
Speaker
Frankly, i feel like, you know, in the age of China, you know, and Yeah, you know, I'm not saying that a satire has to suggest like a better alternative, but the fact that it has nothing on its mind to counteract what it's showing as the rot is, it just, it's just tired and lazy, like, like ah the rest of the the season. Like, yeah.
03:34:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it's just lazy. Like, I feel like we're struggling to find things to say about it. And I feel like we will have more to say as the episodes come along. But what this feels like is like he had the opportunity to make these things because of the controversy. He got the funding from HBO and I wouldn't be too surprised if they got another season for it. Cause it seems like that's up in the air. It seems like people are watching this. They've referred to the finale as season, like an official HBO materials. They've,
03:34:59
Speaker
started calling it the season finale and not series finale when I assumed I was like, there's nowhere else to go. Right. But i saw a press release from Sam Levinson today where he was talking about the possibility of other seasons as the up in the air.
03:35:15
Speaker
He's, he's essentially talking about it as like, he hasn't heard anything from HBO and the end of the season could be the series finale. It sounds like he is in his mind has more ideas and that this finale is like up in the air in terms of where it can go. Just logistically, though, they barely got everyone, like, schedules working out this time.
03:35:34
Speaker
They're only going to blow up, like like, so you just got to kill off Nate. Like, cause i'm like what there's nothing. You got go rid of Zendaya can stay on because she produces the show and and won the Emmy for this, right? like Right. For Zendaya, this is like an easy meal ticket, right? When she's not doing a new movie, when she's not doing Spider-Man or whatever, like, she can do this.
03:35:57
Speaker
Yeah. and And at that point, she's such a ah powerful force in in whatever universe. I wouldn't be surprised if Sam Levinson's just kicked off. I wouldn't be surprised to if it's just the Zendaya show and she brings on someone that she likes working with. what if Yeah.
03:36:13
Speaker
What she brings on Guarani? Oh, i Sign me up. That's a better... Guarani would make a great... you see that would that sounds That sounds fucking good. Yeah, that sounds really good. And he would he would play with the sexualization perfectly. He would he would really understand how how far to go. And he also really understands, like, soapy drama. Like, he understands, you know, like, making things cheesy and kitschy.
03:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, no, he would be... It would it would look cool. It'd probably have a fucking banger soundtrack. Like, it just as a... Like, as an audiovisual experience. Like, I keep forgetting that this is Hans Zimmer because there's not, like, anything... not that, like, not that he's lately has turned into the best work. I mean, but at least I can recall what sections of Dune sound like. But, like, He asked me, like, what does Euphoria Season 3 sound like? I'm like, I guess they... There's, like,
03:37:12
Speaker
western sound sometimes i don't know like i really i i don't think needle drops are less inspired than previous seasons like yeah in every like uh prior season of euphoria i'd like listen to the playlist of of the songs that they put in because there would be a couple of deep cuts and this time around it just feels like songs i've heard in other movies and i'm like i don't like that where i can recognize these things from better sequences and better projects instead of it being repurposed in this context.
03:37:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't really have anything else to add other than i will say, i don't, I think the storyline itself is like a we fart But I do like how ah like, obviously evil the cops are using, like, that they, that they like, do not care whether she lives or dies. Like, they just, they're just using her for for what they need, and they're, like, giving her nothing. And yeah, I mean, that's, that's very true to, to life, but like, I, I don't think the show has ah like a commentary beyond that. It's just ah showing more stuff like, yeah, this is all fucked, isn't it? You know, like even the cops are bad.
03:38:30
Speaker
the system man part of the system like it's it's one of those things fact the the the show is anti-establishment in so far as it will talk about the inadequacies and the ways that the systems are built against poor people but they won't analyze how poor people become poor people they won't analyze uh the ways these systemic things uh you know, create, kick the can further down the line. And and again, of Solely puts individual decision at the forefront, which ultimately gives the hand away in terms of what the show's political perspective is.
03:39:06
Speaker
Yeah, because that's an inherently reactionary viewpoint to be like, if you just made better choices, you could not be poor. like or like Or you wouldn't be living in such debauuchched debauchery and like you know hedonistic circumstances. Just don't be poor. Yeah.
03:39:23
Speaker
just don't be poor like can you just yeah you you You know it's broken anyway, so play into it is kind of the vibe that's happening. and And I would prefer that in a more pessimistic project, but the show is trying to be lighthearted and zippy and comedic. And I just don't think that they're necessarily needing the tone with what they had promised in the first seasons. And it's getting to the point where I'm embarrassed, frankly, for the people who are involved.
03:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's a shame. Like, cause like I said, there is, there is talent in this cast. It's just, they're not given anything. ah
03:40:03
Speaker
I don't have any bold predictions. I'm just, just out of boredom some nights. So I'll like go on the euphoria subreddit and be like, what what are people even saying over there? There'll be like theories about like, Hey, do you think that Alamo's like main minion? Do you think he's like undercover? Um, I'm like, well, he caught up a guy with a chainsaw in the shower, so probably not. But for knowing this show, it could they could pull Departed and Alamo's a fucking fed. you know Like, he's an informant.
03:40:36
Speaker
I feel like a euphoria of Reddit would just be like, you know, a lot of women who got caught up in, like, the drama stuff and, like, they've got a lot of sincere, like, you know, plot questions. And then a lot of creepy men who are just like, women?
03:40:51
Speaker
and they're like commenting on what they're saying and stuff, you know? Like, that's my impression of what that fan base would be like. That's not too far off. I feel like there is also the a female contingency of the fan base who are still, they're just like thirst for people on the kissy Oh, of course. Jacob Lurie, good-looking guy, even though he doesn't have a dick to do with this. There's people who thirst after Jules' is like sugar daddy. i'm like He's just like an evil, rich guy. like I don't even... ah like Unless you're into being wrapped in plastic.
03:41:26
Speaker
I don't know. Is that thing? If this show were like 15% better, you would have people desperately making fan camps, right? Because the people in the show are hot and they are always paraded around as hot as they are, right? And if you wanted to, you know, turn off the show's sound and just look at hot people on the screen, I guess if your shallow tastes are just out there, the show meets that, right?
03:41:51
Speaker
But, you know, I do demand more for my television. little bit. yeah And have the hot people do interesting things. Like, like is that a lot to ask? i don't know.
03:42:03
Speaker
That used to be the norm, you know, back in the day. But now...
03:42:10
Speaker
That's not true. they were It was always this. explosion ah But what what I'm getting at here is that this is just, you know, lame. It's it's ah not not good. And and Sam Levinson's an empty provocateur. I bet the Baywatch reboot will be more titillating, and that's probably going to be a oh pile of dog shit. I'm not to watch it because I don't have no connection to Baywatch as a thing. I was confused that they were even rebooting it. I was like, is this, are they trying to coast? Like did the rock movie do anything money wise? Are they trying to like, that did really poorly. act Oh, okay. So it was a notorious flop.
03:42:47
Speaker
Okay. So this is going to have nothing to do with that. Yeah. And I do feel like it's also an extension of like the rush hour for, uh, of media that's happening, you know, like leading more into conservative tastes.
03:43:01
Speaker
You guys want it? Well, and just like bringing back everything that everything has, a like, I could see there, but you know, like how in the nineties there was that, that like kind of gold rush of like, Oh, all these classic sitcoms. What if we did, what if we did like a Brady Bunch movie, we could do a Beverly Hillbillies movie. Adam's family. Yeah, Adam's family. I mean, they already they already have fucking Wednesday going, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone like reboots the Brady Bunch in some form sometime soon.
03:43:28
Speaker
i got a really gritty take on Snagglepuss that's really going to you know ah change the way that you view class dynamics.
03:43:38
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Far, far from home.
03:43:49
Speaker
Have gun, will travel, reach the card of a man A knife without armor in a savage land His fast gun for hire heats the calling wind A soldier fortune is the man called