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Bulworth (1998) w/ Kazmo
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Is Warren Beatty a radical filmmaker? Is he invited to the cookout? Is he a mad genius..or perhaps..insane in the brain??Tony & Doug sit down with Kazmo (@heykazmo) to answer these questions and more!
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Transcript
Introduction: Critique of Healthcare Systems and Discussion Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
Get the number now. Get now. Go. Everybody going to get sick someday, but nobody know how they going to Health care, managed care, HMOs. Ain't going to work no certain, not those.
00:00:11
Speaker
Because the thing that's the same and everyone I visit these motherfuckers there, the insurance companies.
00:00:18
Speaker
You can call a single payer a Canadian way. Only socialized medicine will ever save the day. Come on now, let me hear that dirty word. Socialism! Were you trying to get crazy with this scene?
Historical Context and Film Review Focus
00:01:04
Speaker
And we're here with ah Cosmo. I think this is as good time as I use this as kind of like the starting pistol because you and me, Tony, talked about like this year covering like a ah gamut of like political political films or movies like about. Maybe just straight up post-apocalyptic America, but also maybe movies that are kind of like feel pre-apocalyptic in some ways because it's, you know, it's 250 years. We're celebrating the death of America. Here's to... Good a time as any. Get the barbecue out.
00:01:38
Speaker
Perfect. Yeah. So this is the best, I feel like, best movie to, were just talking about off mic, how this, all the timing of this coming together and just like, I just feel like historically the timing of seeing this because me, Kazo, it's the first time, right? You've never seen it before? Yeah. Never seen it.
00:01:58
Speaker
Yeah. This is crazy so crazy to see now of all time. Yes. Yes. It's very timely. Like, I couldn't believe it. i I mean, like, you it came out in 98, but it's like, this is everything that's on my mind literally right now.
Warren Beatty's Career and Film Involvement
00:02:15
Speaker
96, I think. would Yeah, it said in 96. Yeah. so and And apparently they were trying to make it for six years. Right. Like from the moment that they started writing it to the moment that they had finished, it took them six years.
00:02:27
Speaker
um and And for me personally, I had seen this movie before, but I came at this from like a Warren Beatty perspective. Right. And like i'm I'm interested in testing the waters on what your guys' experience with Warren Beatty movies have been so far.
00:02:40
Speaker
ah For me, it's a big pro like, you know, like I know him as like and a personality or someone to collaborate or to work with, there's, you know, different levels of how great that experience that is. But yeah like the actual movies, like I've, I think I've liked all the ones I've seen. mean, Bonnie and Clyde, like, yeah, I like shampoo a lot. There could be a good double feature that we were talking, me and Tony were about like possible double features that this would pair with. Like I, uh, but Warren baby, Oh, parallax view.
00:03:15
Speaker
Like, Right, yeah. So, like, he's he's done political movies, too. so Yeah. And Reds, Reds. Great movie. Fantastic movie. Yeah. Probably my favorite Warren Beatty movie, honestly. haven't seen that one. haven't seen that. It's long, but it's, like like, the cool kind of epic where it's just about, like, ideas. just Just imagine, like, the, you know, Oscar bait version of Bullworth, right? like Yeah. Like, kind of, you know.
00:03:43
Speaker
and And it's like a romantic a love triangle between like Warren Beatty, Gene Hackman and Diane Keaton. Okay. Great movie. um but But for me, it like I always viewed Warren ba Beatty as this like weird, mysterious figure who just kind of swoops in and makes movies every while. Right. Like the movie he had made.
00:04:03
Speaker
Exactly. Dick Tracy was the movie prior to this. And then the next movie he makes is 18 years later with Rules Don't Apply, which is a bizarre
Film's Political Undertones and Editing Style
00:04:12
Speaker
movie. Is it Alden Einreich? Yeah, and Lily Collins. And like there's there's a crazy cast and it's about him as like Howard Hawks, I believe. And it's very strange. It's a strange movie. It's oddly perverted is the way But but the Warren Beatty, he's very political. Is that odd? Like, did Tracy's oddly perverted? I was going to say, yeah, he's pretty perverted himself from the stories I've heard about Warren. Yeah, he's got a rep to him. month Yeah. Ishtar? I didn't mention Ishtar. Oh, Ishtar, yeah.
00:04:50
Speaker
Yeah. um But... It's crazy that this movie is what it is and is in that it's I didn't know anything other than the image of him like in the yeah he like like a cartoon version that almost looks like like Bugs Bunny or something like x exactly. Yeah. Like like the gangster T-shirts. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
But he almost sold on the Bugs Bunny by the end. So that's like not misrepresentative of what the movie is. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's very cartoonish, like you're saying. It's extremely cartoonish. I mean, that's why I picked up the the VHS when I saw it at the thrift store. I was like, why does Warren B look like this? Why does he look like in Space Jam? Yeah, that's and People don't know the cover is like Warren Beatty, you know, like he's the Senator Bullworth. And it's like him the outside is like his normal, like buttoned up, like, you know, yeah like a politician thing. And then out comes the Warren Beatty, like the gangster version, like yeah coming through his mouth, like he's opening his mouth and coming out of it, kind of like the smile monster. But it's Warren Beatty. And his mouth is a gape, too. So you have to imagine there's even more. work now and there's some If I'm being honest
00:06:11
Speaker
honest. This movie exists as like the, I feel like 1998 is like that is like either the year or the year before that transition to DVD. Right. yeah And I feel like, like this movie kind of almost feels like spiritually, like a movie that came out on VHS. And it also went with this poster that we keep referencing. Yeah. I feel like it's very classically political and it's styling. And obviously you're meant to think of Uncle Sam. But I'm thinking about like the parallax view. I'm thinking about movies from the 70s that would have this kind of style of poster.
00:06:44
Speaker
So everything about this movie coming into it, even though it's trying to be very modern, there's clearly an aged element to it that it's not trying to hide. Yeah, very true. Yes. Sorry. my mom vo forite I need to have some energy drink. We've added out to this dead space. have The five-hour energy in in small increments. Water. I mean, I am going to go crazy with editing on this one because I do like to use, I've i've gotten more and more comfortable using like things we do not have the license to use. this strip Oh, But, you know, there is a rule of thumb that's not actually a rule, but like if you use it, it's like, oh if it's under 30 seconds or whatever. you So like if I did. Right. But there's there's multiple under 30 second clips. Like how many can you get away with? I don't know. I'll find out. find of folks too
00:07:35
Speaker
Also going to be using the soundtrack from this movie pretty literally throughout the episode. Okay. So how crazy is it that Ghetto Superstar was for this movie?
00:07:46
Speaker
the soundtrack because I was like this movie has some of the best songs like this this is like one of the best hip-hop soundtracks I've ever heard and it's in a warm bey what baby movie and then I see Ghetto Superstar and I'm like oh yeah I know that song but then I'm looking into it and it's like it's four balls of that time yeah you're just like holy shit cypress hill a lot of yes a lot of cypress hill one specific part of us one cypress hill you made me want to lose my mind
00:08:22
Speaker
And just that one specific part. It doesn't even go to the other parts of the song. It's all right. Yeah, it's pretty good. The verses are fine. Yeah. Just doing the chorus. And it's always like the same like like sound that it comes back. You're like, oh, why is it always on this beat?
00:08:38
Speaker
There's so many different beats it could come in on. Do we think – there's a ah credited editor, but do we how heavily do we think Warren Beatty was in the editing booth? like he gives Oh, no big time. excised control over everything. Yeah. Even movies he's not directing, so – yeah I feel like his sets are like, I feel like there's good days and bad days on Warren Beatty's sets. Like I feel there's, because like this movie, with whatever we're going to say, I think this movie is actually really well directed of all things. I agree. um But at the same time, ah there are certain moments where it just goes a little too far or there's flourishes that just don't quite hit the nail on the head, but everything else is so focused. Yeah.
00:09:18
Speaker
So I can imagine like working with somebody who's a perfectionist that way, who's just not getting it quite right every time. Could be an exhausting set, you know. Certainly some people who look exhausted in this movie.
00:09:30
Speaker
But that helps the narrative.
Exploration of Cultural and Political Themes
00:09:32
Speaker
sweet you were talking about flourishes that maybe don't all work. What do we think about how... yeah i mean, we'll we'll we're jump pull jump around. we We'll start, like, we could go through the movie, but there's there's certain things. Like, when he goes to the black church versus the white the white church, the camera's more locked down. And then in the black church, there's there's some movements happening, you know? yeah that was... The timing of those movements, like, the way it's... I was like, whoa, like, baby just went, like, kamikaze with the freaking camera here. Like, he just, I don't know, like, it was like we're on, like, a flying carpet or something like that. i don't know why he decided.
00:10:12
Speaker
I guess it's black to him, you know, keeping it, like, sideways. He gets to make a movie with drones, like, where he makes his ambulance. Oh, and my. own know He's Michael Bay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I have. or or Yeah. Or he does like the Steven Soderbergh movie with the ghost, right? Presents. Oh, for pre yeah and the yeah. but i but Something I read um about this movie was that like ah so essentially everything in the intro was like locked down and then the rest of the movie was shot entirely in steadicam.
00:10:41
Speaker
Right. So that makes sense. Once we get that introduction. Right. It's so noticeable. Right. And then through the rest of the film, like once I had read that fact and I was watching it, ah like the film never locks down after that fact. It is always moving around in some subtle way or another.
00:10:57
Speaker
So I think that it's like at least a creative way of doing that. But I do also have to point out, like, I feel like in the 90s, like, black churches in, like, music, right, R&B and stuff, it was huge, right? Yeah. So on the campaign trail, right, it was definitely, like, a premier spot for the Democrats, especially in that time, right? So I feel like it was actually hitting the nail on the head in terms of, like, what was relevant in that time period, which is interesting when you see the perspective that this film is coming at it.
00:11:30
Speaker
we'll get into it as we keep going. Speaking things that are relative to this time period, Halle Berry's in this movie. A fact that I maybe kind of knew, but did dead did my cultural memory of the movie that I'm not having not seen is just the cover. So like, I kind of don't know, didn't know like the scope of the of the cast of the ensemble around it. But This is when they still allowed Halle Berry movies. And I think they should, we should go back to that. I mean, outside of Netflix, you know, Netflix every like, like, I don't know, three years. I should watch some of those just because there's no, nothing. don't, there's no other alternative than where else to see. It's the only way can get your fix. Yeah, that's true. Fucking junkie.
00:12:11
Speaker
She also has locks, which I thought was interesting. I mean, it's not something you see her with nowadays. and They were really, you know, pushing the black Halle Berry thing a lot, which I thought was fun.
00:12:24
Speaker
I like her whole whole swag is very different. She's got like a lollipop in her mouth. like Yeah. Yeah. Like, I love what she's doing because what she's been asked to do is impossible. Right. Like, at no point do I ever feel as though they are genuinely in love. Right. I don't feel like the chemistry is there. And it's partially because like Warren Beatty is too comedic. He's like playing it far too broadly and it can't be that way. So she she knows that she just has to play the straight man in this case. Right. Stonewall it. And she does that like a pro in this movie. Yeah. Every time you're watching her, you know that she's acting her ass off. But then when you're watching the scene, there's also like, you're kind of like, this kind of has to happen for the plot to happen. It just kind of feels weird watching these two people act and say these things to each other sometimes.
00:13:16
Speaker
Yeah. But she's such a star. Like, she's so hypnotizing. Like, I understand why Bullworth, like, when he saw her, he picked her out of the crowd because it's like, she just calls you. It's like his only main animating thing. Like, this man is a decidal and then he decides, like, wait, I want to live. Exactly. Exactly.
00:13:39
Speaker
exactly Something funny I had read about this film, right? When the when they had originally pitched it, right? ah He pitched it to the studio as Senator plans to kill himself, but then falls in love and tries to call it off, right? That was the only part of the pitch.
00:13:53
Speaker
He added in all of this other political commentary after he had gotten it greenlit for $30 million, right? So I think that's insane that he was just like, went so modern with it, but then also like...
00:14:06
Speaker
Well, it's modern in a sense because it needs to call out the establishment, neoliberal establishment of the time. And it's definitely far more left than the Bill Clinton era. And it's certainly calling towards how will the Democrat Party became, right? Especially...
00:14:23
Speaker
in the time. So I wonder if it would have been like, people be like, no, that's too crazy in the era. That's like, ah, that's like, this is a fantasy, right? And now it's just kind of like, some of the things that are happening in this almost feel too real.
00:14:37
Speaker
That's why I said this would make a good double feature with ah Network. Because I mean, that that was like decades ahead of the curve in terms of like where we are now. So that that's crazy. But like, this is also super pressured because it's like, this is shit. Trump just did the evil version of this instead of like preaching for the so socialized meit health care and, you know, ah just a general like be like a leftist threat to the establishment. Like he just went the ah ah right way of the hyper right wing populist in terms of like, you know, I'm for you guys. Everyone else is bullshit, even though he's more bullshit.
00:15:16
Speaker
Exactly. couldn't I couldn't stop thinking about Trump
Film's Political Critique and Inspirations
00:15:20
Speaker
as I was watching this, because, you know, like Oliver Platt, who's great in this, is is just losing his mind whenever
00:15:30
Speaker
Bullworth says something. And it's just then I think about all the things that Trump said in all his campaigns. and it's funny this is so nusty like where we Like you say, we got the evil version of this and it did and it worked. it went yeah It went perfectly well.
00:15:46
Speaker
Career ending thing that happens a day at least. Yeah, exactly. It just like, ping, bounces off. Yeah, so no problem. So this, like seeing this happen, you've i but was I wonder if in the 90s it was harder to buy the pivot of like, wait, is this working? People are, yeah, because then where i I can buy now because ive exactly I've seen it work. But I don't know if I'd be like, oh, come on. People would be throwing them out like yeah I can put this. Right. and And I love that it's it's of all people. The person that makes Oliver Platt turn to Bullworth's side is Larry, Larry King, you know. Yeah. And and i think that that's really telling that no matter who else he's meeting with, the lobbyists, what have you, right? Like it's Larry King, who's the person who's like, oh, you know what? I'm on board.
00:16:33
Speaker
And it it's even said early on, like this this whole movie opens with him watching the television flipping through. There's a show. we We don't even know what his interior life is, but we know that Bulworth knows television and we know that sooner that he's put in a position where he can be on camera, he's going to exploit that. And he even says like in the first speech, like when he's in that black church, he says, ah you know, ah you guys aren't doing any effective change because you're too obsessed with the OJ trial. Just like a really ah like pointed statement. And then also at the same time, ah he ends up kind of becoming that as well. Like what I find interesting is that he has to kind of be a martyr in order for him not to be the corrupted version of this. Yeah.
00:17:20
Speaker
Another movie, just if we're talking about older movies that you could definitely draw parallels to, a Face in the Crowd. You guys like that movie? 100%. that movie. I feel like definitely Warren Beatty was like, i need to pull from that. Thinking about that, yeah, for sure. That one of Spike Lee's movies went on Turner and was like, guess oh yeah. Ace in the Crown, the other one was like Kirk Douglas, I think. Ace in the Hole. still need see Ace in the Hole. more Yeah, I haven't seen it either. yeah You guys would love it. It sounds awesome. I mean, it's kind of like this whole same stuff, like yeah yeah manipulation and like taking advantage of of the of, you know, the right time and place of of that stuff.
00:18:00
Speaker
Um... There's another double feature being there. I was thinking of ah Peter Sellers movie because he like ah ah only knows he only knows how to say stuff that he watches on TV and and that and this Warren Beatty has ideas that are at least from what we're seeing within the movie. He obviously heard it somewhere else. like Yeah. And we see the walls of like all these, you know, like, ah you know, black freedom fighters that he's like, yeah he he holds some regard for these people. So like we know, ah it's it's not just like a ah photo op thing of like, look, this is cool. I, you know, knew that knew this guy. It definitely is that too, but this is kind of the movie of those two sides like boring within him.
00:18:45
Speaker
Mm-hmm. anyone Well, we opened the movie with him watching his campaign ads. Right. And it's him running as a Democrat moving to the right. Right. Against affirmative action, which, you know, if you think about the Democrats in America today, you know, the ones who are moving right. That is hilarious. I'm sorry. Like there are a lot of people who are doing exactly that right now. I mean, that's kind of what what Bill Clinton's thing was, though. the people Exactly. He's like, I'm a Democrat, but, you know, I i get you farmer guy.
00:19:13
Speaker
Exactly. I understand. It was the vibe at the time, right? And what what I find interesting is that as he's watching these commercials, he is breaking down and crying, right? The fact that like you can fill in the gaps there. he probably entered into politics for more noble reasons and has descended so much and can't recognize the reason why he got there in the first place. And like...
Character Analysis and Narrative Structure
00:19:37
Speaker
we haven't seen this yet or heard this yet, but like, we know that he's been up for three days. He hasn't eaten for three days. And ah like, there's a sense of delirium, but he hasn't broken yet. And I think the movie does a good job transitioning into that delirium.
00:19:52
Speaker
asia Yeah. This would happen to of Paul. Like how, how do they sleep at night? You know? Very good question. The tunnel falling over, right? Yeah. It's happened. Yeah, he hadn't slept for days, so he just fell over. He was supposed to get a DJ. Sorry, go ahead.
00:20:11
Speaker
and No, it's just funny that that's like, like technically he fasted and had like a enlightenment, you know, just that's like what happened to him. Like he finally, he saw God or something, like he finally woke up and once he got some sleep, it was funny like how he, his demeanor kind of changed, but you know, he still...
00:20:31
Speaker
i thought I thought towards the end that he was going to, like, change up on everybody once he, you know, got some rest and got his suit fixed and everything. thought maybe that was going to be the way it was. Yeah. Didn't even care about Halle Berry. Exactly, yeah. But then it's more just like, no, he's, like, ah insecure about, so like, her reaction to it.
00:20:52
Speaker
and I think that might be like the best acting from Beatty in the entire movie. Cause like, i agree. One time where you can't tell what he's doing. Right. So broad the whole movie that when you have that moment of uncertainty, it actually does pull the rug from under you. So yeah. um There's just those weird pockets that work, but like, as we're getting that transition ah with him, like he's, you can, you can see it bubbling up. Like obviously with the assassination, we haven't even talked about the assassin. Yeah. So the premise of the, know, like, people are familiar with Bulwark. Yeah. I kind of, all I just knew the Prentice besides Lord Beatty was going to rap at some point. That's like a politician, like just start saying the truth, you know, like, or whatever, like he says, what's on is he loses his filter. And, uh, but I didn't know the specifics of, so he like takes a hit out on himself.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. I love it. I love it. did not expect that. i was like, oh, this has like another plot to it where he's got to be constantly running from his own assessment. That's so funny. Like, I just think that's hilarious.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, because he's already done the serious mooc version of a political... Exactly....where someone's trying to kill him because he knows too much or something. But this is like, no, I've decided I need to go.
00:22:14
Speaker
it It feels like an old-fashioned 40s, 50s movie, right? because Yeah. How those movies, they'll always have like five different movies in one picture. Right, exactly. You can't believe that by the second act you've seen so many storylines so well. And Bulworth kind of has that energy for stretches. It's a weirdly lopsided film because we spend too much time in certain places. and yeah It's also just a hangout movie. It is a hangout. Big time Big time.
00:22:45
Speaker
it's It's more just like cool characters you hang out with. The great cast again. yeah that we're got It's insane. It's such a deep... bench when the credits were rolling I was like we're on like the sixth credit and I know who all these people are like what and then even the people who aren't credited I'm just like I know that I know who that is there that's Michael Duncan like what what is he doing here and hes in this Don Chiebel.
00:23:11
Speaker
Yeah. Just walking right into the movie. Just like beeline. Literally. and in Into when they're at the club. Yeah. because Because that is the movie. They just go to spots and like hang out there for a little. Club is like one part like that takes up a chunk. And then we that's how we get introduced. I feel like that's like not like late, late into the movie, but like we're already like past like normally like where the first act would be. Yeah. when we say And we're still introducing new elements. I'm like, damn. Okay.
00:23:40
Speaker
Well, like we haven't even talked about to how, ah you know, like the whole movie is framed around also like ah so we we have this assassination that we brought up. Right. he's He's going to kill himself via this assassin who's targeting him. But then he has a change of heart ah and he decides that he wants to evade the assassination. And at the same time, he's also on the last stretch of his like failed political bid for the Senate race. And you're seeing that he knows and realizes that he has nothing left to lose. And everybody's just kind of using this as a vulturist moment, right? I think that Beatty's playing all of this stuff really well because we all know that he's going to be rapping soon, right? We know that he's going down that path, but he's still playing that on level. But they build up to They don't just jump to him rapping. They're like, he has to show the slide.
00:24:31
Speaker
but ah His rapping is so funny because there's a moment where... you um where one of the kids is like, why do why do white people, I mean, like, what do you say white people rap like that or something like that? Oh, yeah. White people rap sounds like that. Yeah, exactly. That's one of the kids that like works for Don Shield. Right, yeah.
00:24:51
Speaker
And I was thinking that the entire, every time he started rapping, I was like, why do white people always go for this like Fred Astaire of rap? Like, what do we need? And it's like, they turn into puppets and it's just so weird.
00:25:06
Speaker
yeah he does it so well though and he's like he's like a songstress It's incredible. Kind of reminds me of when the Dean raps in Community. I think that's like the later season where you can have their paychecks and then he's he's like has dressed as a payday bar and then he doesn't rap.
00:25:22
Speaker
I was going to bring up the Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, right? The alphabet rap or something? Yes. I think that, like, so obviously it's on the table. We got to talk about his rapping, right? So it's clearly a decision to rap this way. he he dialed in exactly the register of off-tempo. Yes. And it's really funny. I think that he's doing that stuff really well, even if, like, the rhymes suck. He's not a really good rapper, Right. Like, his flow is... all over terrible yeah it's really funny to listen to like i would never accuse warren baby being egoless but this is kind of an egoless performance and the it is similar to ishtar where so much of the joke is like these guys fucking suck like anytime you hear them sing they're like off key just losers yeah i kept thinking like
00:26:14
Speaker
Like you said, the egoless thing, because i was like, why would Warren want to do this?
Film's Political Themes and Audience Reception
00:26:19
Speaker
Like Warren is a movie star. Like he and he's gorgeous. Like he's a gorgeous movie star. Royalty. Exactly. was he in his prime, he had so much power. And then he arguably has more now that he can when he did this to give because. Yes. Do this.
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah. And you didn't dig Tracy. Like you're you're you're on top of the world. Why would you want to be like this dopey idiot? ge who can't rap who's super white in his shoes. I just don't understand. But I'm glad he did it because it's like it's the most fun I've had watching a movie in a long time.
00:26:53
Speaker
Absolutely. And he gets to kiss Halle Berry at the end. so Very important. that's yeah why he youre like why did he do this? like yeah yes I get it.
00:27:04
Speaker
yeah I feel like this was a situation where like i like he's playing with topics that usually go very wrong. Like in other hands, it's like you fumble that ball and it just goes into the massively offensive territory, right? I think that this movie is like very close to being on the exact right mark and it misses it a couple of times, right?
00:27:26
Speaker
But at the same time, it's hearts in the right place most of the time to where it's like, oh, I can let some of this like keep going to the point where I'm not going like to shut this off, right? Right. So it's like a ah great balance in terms of having fun with it.
00:27:40
Speaker
Yeah. the Because this could have easily gone off rails in several parts. I mean, when the West Bank gets invoked and when he's at those out, now one event, I was like yeah i train my whole body was like, yeah let's so what's he about to say?
00:27:55
Speaker
know And he and he he doesn't really like that's is not the end of it. Like he does keep going with that. Right. And yeah like it's it's kind of crazy to hear that in the 90s as well to be released. What was he saying? You want me say you want just say something bad about Farrakhan? Yes, exactly. I was like, oh, my God.
00:28:14
Speaker
Nuts. And there were two things I wanted to bring up ah because you brought up Ishtar, right? And and ah I had read online that apparently ah Warren Beatty had shown the script to Elaine May before they had made it to see like if she had any notes for it. And she called the movie a piece of shit and said, not make it. Like she was like, no, it was a terrible idea. It was a piece of shit.
00:28:36
Speaker
Yeah, she said Bullworth was a piece of shit and you should not waste your time making it, right? and And then the second thing I wanted to bring up, right? So when Warren Beatty made the movie, he was really self-conscious about it. Like he was thinking about shelving it and not never releasing it, right? Because this is something else I was going say too. like Like on that note of like, if this goes wrong, he could look really bad. And like certainly there are certain moments like that you could post online and be like, isn't this embarrassing? It's definitely in the context of the movie, it's like...
00:29:04
Speaker
Funny, I guess. But like, when he showed it to Cornel West to get his opinion. And Cornel West said, everybody needs to see this. So he decided to release the film.
00:29:16
Speaker
Shout out to Cornel. Two exact right people. Because if you wanted if you want to talk to a great comedy filmmaker, you know, like he consults with Elaine May. He wants to know of course what what what she thinks. And then you ask Cornel West. It's and And he made the right call by going with Cornel West. Yeah, that's a good idea. My favorite member of the Matrix Reloaded ensemble.
00:29:40
Speaker
but I love that he's just like on the console, Zion. On the console, yeah. It's great. It's funny, right butot I recently watched um Hollywood Shuffle. um before I watched this. And so talking about like things could go wrong.
00:29:57
Speaker
I kept thinking about Hollywood Shuffle because, you know, in the movie, it's all about how like Black people only get roles where they're the gangsters and, you know, the crooks and slaves and stuff like that. And then I watched this and it's like every Black person in Hollywood is in this movie. And they're all, i mean, they're all being very,
00:30:17
Speaker
you know, they're gangsta. Like they're all like that. And I was like, this might not go well. Like this might be very bad. But like you said, as it goes on, I'm like, no, this is like, he like, it's, it's very honest where this is coming from. And like very, it's not,
00:30:33
Speaker
It's not judgmental at all. You know, it's just it's it's not even like very preachy or anything like that to to me. So i was I was very like relieved because just having that movie in my mind and then seeing all these black people was like oh, this is not going to go well. But it really is somehow sticks the landing, even though it doesn't always. But he got there, you know. I think the key is that he always lets himself be the butt of the jokes.
Class Struggle and Economic Populism
00:31:01
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Like, because he's that cartoonishly big, even though i think we're all in agreement. Like, we once he becomes woke, we're like, yeah, he's everything he's saying. Correct. Not everything.
00:31:12
Speaker
Yeah. She's getting right on this one, especially V-C-V healthcare. care That's why they take him out. Because he was too correct about it. Yeah, that's right.
00:31:23
Speaker
That's right. I like the part when he was just kind of like humming and going. Yeah. That's my favorite part of his rapping ever. But ah that transition that he makes, that political awakening. And I think that what this movie is largely getting at, right, because there are stereotypes in this movie for sure. There are certain moments where it's like, you know, bush brushing up with those things in ways that are problematic, right? But then I think what the larger point of the film is this idea of like a deracialization kind of like and and uniting under class struggle, right? think that ultimately that's like a more... um
00:32:03
Speaker
but Like that's a more, um what's the word? like Like it's working towards a better goal. Like I feel like at the end of the day, everybody is united by class at the end of the day. Right. and and Economic populism.
00:32:15
Speaker
and and And that's what Warren Beatty's getting at, it the leftist that he is, right? Like leaning totally in the socialist department. Right. Something that Boots Riley is probably going to be saying with I Love Boosters later. Yes. like Definitely going to be something that more people are going to be making movies about even, right? So you to see like Bullworth saying that in this period, it's a breath of fresh air, even if it's clumsily handled, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like the KFC scene, right? like Yeah. That's tough. Like, why? Like, now he's he's super woke, so he eats KFC. I mean, you know, what are you talking about?
00:32:53
Speaker
Is this the original Dark Woke? yeah Yeah. It might be. It might be. I'm actually so happy it came out when it came out, because if it came out now, like, it would get clipped to death, and, like, people would be tearing it apart. Like, it Like, Orin Beatty said the N-word, like, that's the end of that movie, you know? Even though i know it wasn't loved at the time, but, you know.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it just also probably wouldn't be able to be released in the form that it's it. Yeah. Not in the right wing way where where those people say like, oh, you can't make these and this jokes anymore. Like you can. It's just like from the studio system that he would have to go through to make it. Right. No way.
00:33:37
Speaker
They're going to note it to like, yeah, you can't be doing that. Can't be talking like that, white baby. Yeah. Well, like the strange thing about this movie is that it's like complex in how it's structured and frames, right? Like the way that it's flowing through all of these things, they can only make sense in the way that it's delivered. Right, exactly. if if If it were done any other way, then it would almost like feel like it would veer off and in such different directions. now Another framing device we haven't talked about is how ah we have like these reporters that are following them around with a camera that's also adding this like
00:34:15
Speaker
ah sense of being watched to both. Yeah. Wendell Pierce, the great Wendell Pierce, and then, what's her name? Billy Loomis' Melori Metcalf. Yeah. And Sean Astin with the camera. It's great. It's great. I love when he's just going off on a tirade at the end in the background. Yeah. Like I kind of wanted the characters, several characters walk by. I'm like, let's just stop here. I want to go here. Yeah. I want to hear the whole thing of everything you say. Because every time we cut back in, I'm like, what?
00:34:50
Speaker
yeah There are some crazy ah quotes in this movie, right? Like there there was one in this early section of the film where he's like meeting with that insurance person. Right. And there and he's talking about like,
00:35:02
Speaker
oh, you know, like everything could be going wrong and stuff. And Bo says something to the effects of like, well, I don't think he can catch AIDS from a house burning down. Yes. at your point exactly That was one I just. yeah Yes. That was the great Paul Servino, which is just like another guy. Like, why is he here He's just doing this. And like Jack Warden is in this. He's just like a ah like he's his little, ah guy that does what he wants. Like, I don't like, I'm just like, why would these people take these parts? But I'm happy they did. Like, it's it's such an incredible cast. I hope they all just believed in the mess.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah, I hope that that's the truth. Yeah. They read the script and they were just like, I'm in. Yes. I think i think more realistically speaking, it's the mystique of Warren Beatty, right? Yeah. Dick Tracy. and That's true. You know, Madonna, you know, the stars. Yeah.
00:35:52
Speaker
All of them, they're thinking like, this is the next thing. And also another thing I should bring up. do you guys know that Aaron Sorkin did rewrites on this movie? No. No. Oh.
00:36:03
Speaker
So, like, I'm bringing that up Aaron Sorkin did something good. No, I'm kidding. He's done it. That's like, Well, I was going to say, like, doesn't this not feel like Aaron Sorkin, though? Like, it doesn't have that stink on it. It doesn't. Yeah. They do walk in and talk.
00:36:17
Speaker
so That's true. hey that's on the table That's actually very funny. Right? like Because now I'm trying to feature Oliver Platt's character in like, the West Wing. In the West Wing, exactly, yeah. I'm, like, doing bumps.
00:36:36
Speaker
Oliver Platt. He's just the best, like always delivers. He's so good at like being a kiss ass and like that. And also a little bit slimy. I love when he does that. This does both of those because he is the kiss ass. But then or, you know, the one whose career is riding on the line of this. So but yeah, he's also willing to flip like that. Like we said, Larry King thinks it's cool. So he's just like, yeah, so he's like, trying to ipress us yeah he doesn't even take a second to like you know. That's what I've been saying. like he just on the do and He plays it so well. um It's so good.
00:37:11
Speaker
Who's the other assistant? Yeah, who's that guy? pla like The one one who's trying to get to the the Coke spoon. I like it when Beatty's asking for the hotel room key from him and he keeps on prolonging giving him the key. He's like, oh, oh your room key. Yeah. But he also it also believable because you're like, he doesn't want to do it because like, you know, that's bad for what his job is. But then also, yes, I feel like everyone in the presence of Halle Berry's, their brain starts getting scrambled. Right. Because that's what what happened. Like you were just kind of yeah like, what was I saying?
00:37:51
Speaker
just thinking about swordfish now. hi incredible. Also, it does, you like, we did say like we never buy that ah she's in love with him, but it does help. So, we've we're already jumping around and we should say, like, obviously yeah watch the movie if you haven't seen it because we spoiled some stuff, but spoilers. But, like,
00:38:14
Speaker
When we find out that she's part of the plot, at least that for me clicked in terms where I could buy into like a baseline, even though the movie itself is cartoonish. or I'm like, OK, well, at least it's justified why she's like been around what she's doing. yeah Yeah. Like there's no way she's just in love with this guy like that. That made so much more sense. I was like, OK, rising.
00:38:35
Speaker
You're really supposed to buy that he's saying the exact right things. And yeah, it is refreshing what he says at the church when we have that breakdown. Right. Because he's definitely being confrontational. But I don't think that he's saying anything that these people weren't already thinking, you know. Right. Like that the Democrats don't care about black people. Exactly. Yeah. Isn't that obvious?
00:38:59
Speaker
It is obvious. Totally. and And this movie is definitely hearkening back to a lot of like America's history and coming from the 90s. This is obviously only like 20, 30 years removed from like the 60s and 70s. And as something that we can obviously see with our eyes and ears is that like the Democrats have been kind of like feasting off the 60s and 70s.
00:39:22
Speaker
since and haven't done anything since, right? Like to have this kind of commentary in the 90s definitely feels appropriate because it's like 30 years out, what have you done, right? Yeah, talking exactly. like literally Bulworth is, what's it called, Mr. I'm not going to do affirmative action, right? Yeah, right.
00:39:40
Speaker
So to then have it, so he flips these and exact opposite where he's calling that out, right? That's a pretty radical statement in the If you were to say that now, it would be even more radical now. um Yes, and I think so.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, because they've done nothing. Really. Yeah.
Character Dynamics and Liberal Critique
00:39:56
Speaker
um But yeah, no, when it comes to ah this whole like church event, like he has like those two women who start to become like his like groupies.
00:40:08
Speaker
Yes, I don't, yeah. They're like his muses. It could have, it could have really fucked up there, but it helps. Yeah. They're fun the entire time, so like, I don't, i don't have to, like, because they are large, like, like a lot of the, we said, you know, there's a lot of stereotypes within the movie, but like, yeah those are coming from a loving place, and like, it's always,
00:40:29
Speaker
Like I said before, it's keeping Beatty himself as like the focus of like the i like, well, he's being buffoonish. Like, it's not like everyone else is like playing it up or they're doing like ah a heightened version of a thing. But like that there's there's still humanity and empathy to those. Right.
00:40:49
Speaker
And they're so much fun. Like, who cares? I mean, you who would not want to hang out with those girls? Yeah. And like when they're at the white church and they're singing and all the white people are like, what the heck is going on?
00:41:00
Speaker
But they're like making the song better. Like, doesn't which this is what you need. Doing good. Yeah, it's like, this is what you guys need. harmonizing Yeah. Yeah. They were crushing it.
00:41:13
Speaker
They were amazing. i I wanted to know who they were. Like, were they so like a group or something? But like I didn't see anything. But they're really cool. Yeah. I don't really recognize them. I didn't recognize them either.
00:41:25
Speaker
I feel like the movie does a good job in terms of like knowing the right people to critique for most of the time. Right. Because I feel like what the movie is doing in many of these cases is is showing these stereotypes of like black people, but then upending those stereotypes for. Right. The, you know, ah hypothetical white moderate liberal watching this movie. Right. um And then there's ah the flip side of it, though, where ultimately this movie is about like a white guy looking for validation within. Yes. Black culture. Right. And that's where like a lot of the large.
00:42:00
Speaker
issues with the film can kind of start to rear their head right that ultimately it does feel like a prize for him to win rather than any kind of like genuine feeling to actually make a difference like it all of this is like we've already gone into spoilers a bit so I'll just say all of this is essentially like a fable all of this is like a Right. Kind of like a Kennedy kind of thing.
00:42:20
Speaker
Right. This idea of like, what could he be a problem? Right. But at the end of the day, he was ultimately moving on mostly selfish primal instincts. Right. Right. How far could that go? So it's like, yeah, it's an interesting, i don't know.
00:42:36
Speaker
stuff on Yeah. It's interesting with this movie. I agree. And it's like, I don't know. as I was watching it, it was, it feels like, But now that you say it took him six years to make it, but it feels like Warren Beatty like had a like a really fun night with like a black woman. And like it'll be sure like it's like he just learned about black people. So that'll know for the first time. It's like he's like, this is actually great. to this Yeah, exactly.
00:43:05
Speaker
He showed him a side of the town he's never seen. it's like, whoa. His eyes wide, just like, I never thought about it like that. I never thought about it like that. That's interesting. You know? Yeah. of those yeah And like, I like that most of the things he said, like you said, he's parroting from the people that he's hanging out with. Like it's from the black people that he's learning this stuff on the fly and he's just saying it. So it's not even like,
00:43:30
Speaker
he he is like an empty vessel like he has nothing you know and he's just he's just spewing what he's getting what he's absorbing from the community which I think is very interesting and it's cool like when he's on the debate and he's saying all this crazy stuff and her family is at home watching it and they're like oh my god because I'm I was going oh my god because that's like it's it's It's unbelievable to even think that a white politician would get up and say stuff like that. And that like he's going there. What if Joe Biden just started rapping one day? Yeah, it's very Biden. Well, ah I tweeted this out earlier. Right. But like there there there is a famous apparently like internal memo slash like conversation that had happened during Barack Obama's term where apparently there were several times where Barack Obama would say, I wish I could just go Bullworth.
00:44:21
Speaker
great So like Barack Obama is a certified Bullworth fan. The thought of going Bullworth, like the Hulk or something. Exactly. What in the world?
00:44:32
Speaker
You just decided to keep drones? Using the drones instead of going Bullworth, I guess? Wall Street. That makes sense. Yeah, exactly. you You hung it with Jay-Z all of those times and for what? For nothing. For what?
00:44:46
Speaker
he said it You know we' could gone on Bullworth, but you did. Imagine Obama coming out in the Bullworth outfit instead of that tan suit. hugh They would have loved it. There would just be a crater where Fox News was because they would... they Exactly. Like they would him would they would either self-immolate or it be spontaneous combustion. Yeah. Yeah. Bill O'Reilly would just come up seppuku. You know, he would just cut himself open with a samurai sword on TV. Oh my goodness. It would have been over for them. Yeah. Best rating day ever. Yeah, you exactly. Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
Because we should say, as we were alluding to before, like this doesn't, he he is ridiculous the whole movie, but it is working. Like, because what he's doing is cutting through to, especially to demographics that would have been probably pretty bored with what he had to
Socialist Themes and Political Commentary
00:45:44
Speaker
offer before. It was just like the same old. The same old stuff, yeah. ah Kind of worse than the same old because of like moving the party even more to the right. So, and people are tired of hearing that.
00:45:55
Speaker
you can't do more. So someone like acknowledging why that is, because like we know why that is, but the politicians seem to like have, you know, an implicit like it's it's crazy that like lobbyists are a thing that we see and know that they're there, but then they get to act like that. That's not like what they're doing. For it all.
00:46:16
Speaker
and As if that like that's not why these people become the senators and the governors that they become. Right. Because that's where the actual money is rather than actually doing anything. Right. Yeah. It's this idea of the slipping, like the slipping of democracy just over time. Right. And this is a movie where it's like, oh you know, what if we could rustle that away and say, no, we're going to actually do a change. and And it it makes like it's no mistake that it's so socialist. It's so this is even Marxist. a cop You know, this is a very left leaning film. and And this message ah strikes very deeply, especially when ah the capitalist system is crumbling to the degree that it is right. Where those systems aren't working.
00:47:00
Speaker
And like I almost feel like in the 90s, like people wouldn't almost feel that way because like people were loving the Clinton years. Right. they Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The end of history. History was over. we did it. Right.
00:47:14
Speaker
Done. Everything's over. Liberal democracy solved it. All of they had Name a problem. It didn't address. So, if and if the problem wasn't solved by liberalism, it just didn't try to use liberalism hard enough. I know better than anything. But the the thing. They went two laps. That's when it doesn't work. Yeah.
00:47:38
Speaker
the the The thing that works with him is like he's clearly a ridiculous vessel. I think that anybody watching the television would be like, oh, this is a ludicrous person. But the reason that everybody resonates with him is because he's saying the right things and the right things are making sure that basic needs are met.
00:47:54
Speaker
You know, right. That's the fundamental tenets of like leftist values ultimately. right Right. Especially when you have, as the world is presented within the context of this film, he's splitting hairs to the degree where he's saying I'm against affirmative action. That kind of world is just like, you know, hellscape of micromanagement until it slips into just full fascist hell. Right. And at least this is putting the power back into the people. So I think that all of that stuff is really so sound and good.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But it does... it's It's incredible how sound and good a lot of it is. And then it's like, then there's moments where I'm just like, I can't get mad because you' you mean well, but it's almost as equally as ludicrous. like when Like when Don Cheadle's character, who's a drug dealer, he's like, guess now, because I heard what Bullworth said during the debate, we're going to change all of this and put money back into the community and you don't owe me any money anymore because you're going to help me change the community. I'm just like, okay. Okay. i need your man Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I don't think it works that way. Or like when, when he's, when Bullworth is with those kids who are also drug dealers, um,
00:49:10
Speaker
he gets some ice cream and saves them from the police and stuff like that. It's just, it's, it it's so good and't so good, but it's just so silly. Like, I don't care what happens. That's not how that goes down, but you know, it's, it's a lot of fun. The police would maybe have pause once they learned you were a Senator, but they're still fuck you up. Cause you'd like, Yeah, exactly. feel like I would have shot him then found out he was the same. Yeah, exactly. That's the way. That cop would not be noticing that poster and putting it together because cops aren't that smart anyway. They can't tell people who they were. And they'd be like, no. Yeah, no.
00:49:47
Speaker
He was wearing that Echo Unlimited. we had yeah exactly. Exactly. exactly And then they frame one of the black kids. Exactly. was dressed like a hood. Exactly. Those kids did have guns, though. And like they did. Impressive revolvers, too. Big six shoes. The smallest one had the revolver. Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't like one of those like mini like taxi driver guns you hide in your sleep. Full on gun.
00:50:14
Speaker
the The recoil alone. Like I i struggled to fly, you know. you like like oh yeah yeah exactly those kids were great though i recognized a lot of them too they were they were they were a fun group and they they sold i mean they they sold all their lines like perfectly which is it's always like worrisome for me when i see kids in a movie especially like like older movies i guess but they were like really good i'm like these guys are professional
00:50:46
Speaker
Like, it's just a good bit, right? because Yeah, it's great. And this scene in the membrane sequence, I guess. Yes, it is. Membrane chapter, because it's not just that yeah part. It's when you come to see Nina's family, who are also, also like, we've seen brother previously. Yeah. they're Like, you're trying to Mac on my sister, and then he has to ask what Mac is. What Mac is, yeah. Well, this kind of goes back to something we were talking about before about him kind of like ah taking in everything that's around and all that. I like those moments when he's kind of like calibrating. You can kind of like everything else is going on and they're doing like that ultimate thing where the audio's different dialogues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can hear Warren Beatty in the audio just going like, oh, Macon, you know, like, what's that mean? Mac, you know? He's just like, yeah he do himself and yeah he's doing that the entire movie. And if you're just listening for that, I think that that alone is its own funny, you know, real right. um but But even then, there are certain moments where you're just like, I don't know about that one. Yeah. Like, what's the...
00:51:52
Speaker
Nappy. Nappy dugout. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah i sort bo Or like when he's when he's DJing at the party and he just keeps on cutting between dick and pussy. This is so good. on the Yeah. be And like, I'm like, why?
00:52:12
Speaker
why did he do that It's so good. I i wish that I watched this on my VHS, so I didn't have like subtitles or anything.
Musical Elements and Comedic Tone
00:52:21
Speaker
So I really want to watch this again because there are all those overlapping themes. i can only pick one thing to like listen to. Yeah. So I want to go back and like hear what everybody's saying, because i was i was dying laughing at like him whispering that.
00:52:34
Speaker
sp And Nephi dug out. Nephi dug out really, really got him. Yeah, it did. Yeah. which was amazing. I love that. I love that scene of them at the, you know, at the fundraiser and he's calling out each table. It's like, it becomes like a ah mini musical. Like it's so, it's so beautifully crafted, you know, including Halle Berry, like they're kind of, yeah. They're dancing through. Yeah. Yeah. a Much better than Amelia Perez. Yeah. No.
00:53:06
Speaker
yeah what a tel aviv and no ah But I like that, again, carrying through with that, like, approach to Warren Beatty's rapping, right? Like, the performance sucks. like he's yeah like Like, nobody's watching this from the audience and actually going, like, I'm going to put this on my yeah cassette, right? Yeah. um But at the same time... Yeah, it's no L to the OG or whatever. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Like, oh, that kid's got bars.
00:53:35
Speaker
he didn't He didn't have the costume yet. You know, he didn't like and put on. That's right. Go unlimited. Instead, he was just wearing the suit. If you maybe like put a bit more pizzazz. They had to build to it. Like superheroes don't normally put on their normal costume the first. That's true. Like a handmade version of it. So he just has his suit gets rumplier and rumplier as it because he doesn't sleep like it's a weekend.
00:53:58
Speaker
and Is it like five days without sleep before he falls asleep at the end? How long is he supposed to have like been awake for? ah Like, yeah that sounds about right. Like five. Yeah, think that's right. Yeah.
00:54:09
Speaker
Yeah. You would go fucking cuckoo banana. Like that. That's what is scary about. I already invoke taxi driver before, but like in that movie begins, you're not sure how long that's been. Yeah, exactly. It's been a while since I've slept. I'm like, what the fuck? This is like.
00:54:25
Speaker
Have you guys seen the Wag the Dog? Oh, yeah. No, I haven't. I want to. That's on my list. You should definitely check it out. It's an interesting movie. like it's Who is it? It's ah Dustin Hoffman and Robert Harrow, right? um But this that movie has a very similar structure to this one where it's constantly going to different places. It's kind of a hangout movie. It's very political, all that stuff.
00:54:49
Speaker
um But that movie, ah it's obviously far more relaxed. You know, it's low key. um But this one is definitely pushing it to the nth degree in all these scenarios. I i lost my point there.
00:55:01
Speaker
I was going to say something else. I completely forgot it. um There was something else I wanted to bring up about this whole ah dinner ball thing. I want to shout out the wife that he's with. Yeah. Yeah. That actress who I ah will always remember from the terrible Grinch remake. Yes. Yeah. Christy Bransky. Yeah.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yes. The beauty. Yeah. Sleeping with a Baldwin in this. Yes. Well, there was another thing. I was like, a Baldwin? and Which one is it that she's with? Is it William? and It looks like William. Yeah, I think that's right.
00:55:35
Speaker
I couldn't tell you any of them beyond Alec, honestly, that after that point. I know Stephen is blonde most of the time. So that's how I just know that about him. Yeah, it's it's William. Perfect.
00:55:48
Speaker
They were harder to tell him apart back then now yeah then. Now, I feel like there are are larger, like obviously there was, you know, Alec was always more, to see oh and we just saw him more, but like, him more yeah I could always pick him out lineup, but yeah, I feel like William has like a look, like by the time he's in, what was that?
00:56:08
Speaker
ah Nicholas Wendon Refn miniseries, Too Old to Die Young. Oh, Too Old to Die Young. Yeah. Can I, I've got a William Baldwin hot take. What's the take? Okay.
00:56:19
Speaker
Backdraft sucks. Oh, the Fairfinder movie, it's ridiculous. It's, I mean, it's, Ron Howard's made worse movies, you know. That's the worst. And he's still worth three for doing that. Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah.
00:56:34
Speaker
He didn't have to deserve any jail time for his teleology. That's crazy. so i'm Partially responsible, I actually believe. But that like movie does have Donald Sutherland as the like, ah pyro collector that they he has to consult, you know, like when they're doing their arson investigation and he's... Just like the the older arsonist has been caught. that Right. Like, I like that idea. Like, I almost wish the movie would met that idea and just Donald Sutherland kills it. So he is great in that like scene or two. that Yeah.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah. That movie is only good for like when I watched it It's only good for yelling backdraft every time there's a backdraft. that's all That's what I do when I watch backdraft. it i am I was just confused in that movie because it's like they go deeper into buildings as the fire rages. Like without water. There's a lot of times they yeah have no hose and they go deeper with just their acts. I'm like, are you guys going to punch it? Like what's the point? That's the thing that's cool about it is that they treat the fire like it's a person. And yeah, then they're going to you feel like they're going to catch it and wrangle it. And you get involved. They're going to fight it. They're fire fighters. See, seeing now Cosmo, like perfectly put, but that's also the reason why I don't like the movie. Doesn't that sound kind of cool? It does sound cool.
00:58:00
Speaker
But I understand the movie does not execute it well, because even when i as I was watching it, it's just so i don't know. It's is it slow or something? It's just so meandering. And and then do you have De Niro in it, who's like doing nothing. like It's like he does not want to be there.
00:58:16
Speaker
So I get it. I definitely get it. And Kurt Russell, just the sleepiest. Yes. It's like, what are you doing man? I love you. didn't mean to take it too far from Bullworth. Let's find another. We lost the backtrack demo. We lost the backtrack demo. community. Sorry, guys.
00:58:40
Speaker
I'll win them back. The Backdraft Experience at Universal Studios, that was an Oh, that's cool. that's cool There you go. would I would go into that. There's random ass around Howard movies I'll stick up for. I think Night Shift is one of the great comedies.
00:58:55
Speaker
yeah Hey, Apollo 13. I was going to say Apollo 13 is magic. I don't i don't care what anybody says. I love that movie. My guy. guy. Everybody's guy. I love it. What do we think of A Beautiful Mind? How is that? it I don't like it.
00:59:11
Speaker
don't like it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And I used to watch it a lot for some reason because it was like one of the only DVDs I had. So I would play it a lot and I never liked it every time. was just nice.
00:59:24
Speaker
Sorry. I like Club Bettany. you know No, I'm just trying to take myself back to, I'm like, was that like a baby's first twist movie or something? Yeah, it's true, true, true. Usual suspects or other things where there was like big... Yeah. But that was, I feel like, yeah, like, oh my God, I can't believe that. can't believe it. Yeah.
00:59:43
Speaker
what what What year did Seven come out? Was it like 98, 99? Like it was close to the end of the ninety s right? ah Yeah, I think it was 95, yeah. 95? 95. That's surprising.
00:59:55
Speaker
He called the shot. he did? Yeah. like he definite There definitely was that kind of like influx of twist movies. i Oh, yeah. but Like the Sixth Sense. like But that's like a great one because it's like good. probably knew the twist before I saw Sixth Sense by the time I saw it because I didn't see it like right away. Yeah. But knowing knowing the twist actually makes that movie better. don't know. A hundred percent. Yes. yeah like yeah Like, I feel like a lot of people like at the time were obsessed with like how that was such a shock. But I feel like the strength strength of the writing is that when you revisit it and you're knowing what to look for, it's actually much.
01:00:32
Speaker
It enriches it. Yeah. It makes it a smarter script because otherwise you're like, This scene is like when where will he'll just be like talking at his wife. who like oh Yeah, exactly. What's wrong with these guys? We've seen so many cliches of this. Yes. Guys like, don't know, Rox or whatever. You're like, no, it's because he's dead. She's like, look at him.
01:00:54
Speaker
To bring it back to Bullworth, I guess, i mean, we talked about everything, but like this has like ah not a twist ending, but a very shocking, like I was not
Stereotypes and Gen X Political Awareness
01:01:03
Speaker
prepared. i i was literally in the middle of cheering because we solved everything and then he gets freaking shot.
01:01:12
Speaker
I could not believe it. could not believe it or whatever happened. Well, cause I knew even in this fantasy version, I was like, they're not going let us have socialized healthy. I guess so. I was too i was too hopeful.
01:01:25
Speaker
They kept cutting to Paul Servino too much, even before the finale, where he would just, yeah ever even not just in the dinner scene, like later, he would just be lurking around and be like, you gotta kill Bullworth.
01:01:39
Speaker
It's crazy that he did it. So he did it himself? I mean, like it was like, insurance company? Yeah, exactly. Doesn't have, like, things to do? He can't get his hands dirty like that. I don't know. moneyed interest. Yeah. would be the corporate lobby who would be the most upset about these things. So I guess it makes sense from that perspective, but also... Would that like Tilda Swen. Exactly. Better movie? maybe Maybe. Like, who's to say? We haven't seen it, so we can't say it.
01:02:07
Speaker
um But ah like I love the ending because like to me I know that that ending's coming because of all these other movies we've referenced in relation to it. Because like you could imagine this movie also as like a Preston Sturges class comedy. You could also imagine this as is like a Charlie Chaplin class comedy. Yes. And those films are far more optimistic and it's certainly yeah trying to like like push things in that direction. But Cosmo like you did a great job in terms of calling out the biblical references because I feel like that's definitely what's happening in his later half, right? Yeah. he's so He's a martyr. He's a messiah, you know, like the idea of ah Bulworth is better than who he was. Right. And also ah a lot of this movie is certainly like an echo of John F. Kennedy. Like this is a lot about like the response to that and imagining what it would be like to have a figure like that. um In relation to that, um have you guys seen the movie Bob Roberts?
01:03:02
Speaker
No. No, that's been, in my mind, i kind of conflated the two movies. That's totally fair. Yeah. That was also a 90s movie, earlier 90s, but that's like ah Tim Robbins, right? Is he like a folk yeah singer who becomes like a conservative senator or something? Exactly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm.
01:03:23
Speaker
So to like fill that in for anyone listening, you know, in terms of like what that means in terms of this film, I feel like Bob Roberts is kind of like the dry run for what this movie is. You know, like Bob Roberts is almost like the clean, safe way of doing that. I think that Bob Roberts is the better movie.
01:03:41
Speaker
Get the time to check it out. I mean, Robbins is a good filmmaker because he's not just starring. He wrote and directed it to. Right. Yeah. Oh, cool. It's his first movie, you know, Giancarlo Esposito was really good. Oh, nice. If I remember correctly, I've seen the clip of him doing his version of that Bob Dylan music video where he has like the cue car. Yeah. And it's just like the different, the different words on it. I saw, I saw the Bob Dylan version after I'd already seen the music video. There's a conveyor belt and he's getting like the,
01:04:16
Speaker
Right. When I saw Bob Dylan, i was like, oh, Bloodhound Gang reference. Oh, that's crazy. I didn't know he was a fan. He was Weird Al for me. Weird Al. I was like, well, were talking about the biblical. stuff like but I don't know if he's like like a Rasta or like a homeless man. i don't know who that... In the credits, he's called Rasta Man the Griot. Rasta Man, yeah.
01:04:39
Speaker
Griots, yeah. But... but Yeah. Talk about stereotypes. Yeah. He is a magical bro, for sure. yeah He is, yeah. Yeah, he's like... He's saying you gotta be a spirit. You can't be no ghost. Be a ghost. Yeah, I thought that was so beautiful. I mean, it but it...
01:04:57
Speaker
Once again, like thinking about that, it's obvious that, you know, Bullworth is going to get killed, but it's, it's like having, you know, having your prophet with you along this journey, you know, and he's like, you got to sing, you got to have a song. and And then the ending with that was like, I don't know, it hit me like a shot. I, as he walked off and was saying that I was, I was very moved by it, which I was not prepared for when I was watching Bullworth. Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:25
Speaker
To kind of get back into the directing of this film, and this movie does a great job in terms of like how it goes into the framing devices, then comes out of the framing devices. And and yeah using this character as a way to kind of center that, we always see him at when ah Bulworth is at his highest peaks.
01:05:43
Speaker
Right. like He's surrounded by a lot of people or he's getting a lot of inspiration. And ah the the interesting thing about how it's played is that you never really get the impression that other people are aware of him. Right. is Just to Bulworth. Right. Obviously, that leads into those problematic stereotypes on one hand. But then on the other hand, ah the message that he is delivering this idea of like becoming this like figure. Right. Right. This this also leads into like what that conversation that he has with Halle Berry is. Right. This conversation about like, ah why are there no ah black leaders this? I love that scene. That's incredible. yeah and harryy comes a She becomes a real character that scene. Finally, she has things to say. has point of view. Yes, exactly. The action of the plot initially. And then in the movie literally makes it like, no, she is the part of the plot. so Right, exactly. she She really has nothing to do other than further that until that scene where you're like, oh, okay. Yeah.
01:06:44
Speaker
Because he's like underestimating her. He's like, do you Exactly. hed thinks she doesn't know. Yeah. And what she's talking about, right, the idea that manufacturing has left the like all like blue collar communities. And it's not so much about like, ah you know, ah racial demographics, but it's about just like geographically, it's all been off outsourced to other countries. It just means no opportunities within the country itself. Right. Which is just true and has only gotten worse. or Worse. I know. it's so It's so painful to hear her say all that stuff. yeah but
01:07:17
Speaker
back then because it's like a hundred times worse right now. but Like it's so bad. did we not do anything? People actively made it worse. Made it worse. It's incredible. It's because it almost, I mean, like obviously we know that politicians have always known this, but like when you see it in the movie, you know that people's heard this and they, they, they can't act like they didn't.
01:07:41
Speaker
And then they still do it. It's, it's crushing really. I'm just like, no, we had every, chance, but we just were like, we're not going to do it. This is a real, like, don't look up, like, we really had it all, didn't we? yes Yeah. In the 90s specifically, because yes I always think to, like, Gen Xers as, like, really titled almost. you know Yeah. yeah that That's that meme of, like, all their movies are, like, the worst possible scenario is, like, they have an office shot. like did they live Exactly. Their whole life is in a cube. It's like, oh, you have steady employment. I don't what this is.
01:08:14
Speaker
Right, right. And then what did they all do? They got those office jobs. yeah They took them all. Pulled out. And they won't leave. Exactly. And a lot of them voted. That was this. I expected like boomers and older to to go that way. But then that's like I think that was like the very most recent election. Like Gen X actually like more vig than other gen. That's true. Yeah, which is crazy because they're mean, you know, you growing up watching movies from the 80s and 90s. They're the cool guys. Like they're the anti-establishment. We hate, you know, we're not going to sell out like they trick you. who They trick you into believing that that's how you got to be, too. And then they don't even do it. like
01:08:56
Speaker
Thanks for selling me a lie. There's an easy explanation. Not caring is even cooler. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. A ah hundred percent. The explanation for this is the lead poison generation, you know. Right. Yes. like Because like truthfully, you know, studies have been linked, you know, more aggressive personalities, you know, all of sudden is scientifically backed, you know. so That's true. That's true. ah But ah that that ah speaking on that whole like, you know, ah anti-establishment, don't care, don't give an F. which is, Yeah.
01:09:29
Speaker
I love that whole sequence when they have the sit-down interview, the whole, like, you know, profanity speech that he gives. Yeah,
Race, Identity, and Political Messaging
01:09:37
Speaker
that's kind of easy. It's almost like a George Carlin version. Right, yeah. And also, like, reading up on this movie before coming on the podcast, like, this used to be, like, one of those, like, record holders for, like, most expletives in a movie, kind of.
01:09:53
Speaker
Oh. so So, like, at that point, In the 90s specifically, because I'm sure you guys remember as well, like in the 90s, that stuff mattered a lot more than does. Oh, yeah. and And it definitely feels like this movie is trying to say something by being like, we we can say whatever we want. Yeah. Put it out there and no one's going to stop us. And I think that's kind of cool.
01:10:13
Speaker
I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like that scene a lot. Like, I just love the whole vibe of this. Like you said, it's a hangout movie and it's just so loose. And it feels like it feels like people really had stuff to get off their chests. And they were and like, we're just going to do it. Like, nobody's going to stop us. it It just feels it feels so not safe.
01:10:35
Speaker
that it's empowering a little bit. you you know It is from this white perspective, but it's still, it feels, it feels very like, like we got it. Like it's so hopeful, but also not. The casualness of it makes it more radical. I feel like. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. that It's not everything is riding on this, you know. Right.
01:10:56
Speaker
Because even if like even him dying, it's the movie is not saying like we can't have this. It's saying. Yeah. It's just like they're going to try be he really, really hard to stop it. like Yeah. They're going to throw everything at it. So but yeah it's worth it. Like the movie presents as clearly like that is what our path forward should be.
01:11:18
Speaker
Right. Especially because even though he, Bullworth dies, you still have Don Cheadle's character who's still going to do whatever he was going to And probably now he's going to do it even harder because Bullworth got shot for the things he was saying. So it's like, it's, it's very like, let's do it. After Bullworth gets shot, but before he gets shot, I still am like. No, me too. He's about Don Cheadle. Me too. Yeah. It was too sudden. Is he finding an angle to scam him? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still crazy. But you just work for him now.
01:11:54
Speaker
Oddly enough, this is kind of tied up within Bullworth's own obsession with like the N-word and being yeah like associated with like black culture. Right. Because the moment that he is called the N-word by Halle Berry is the moment that he is no longer considered white and is the moment that he's treated like a black person. just Yeah. In the street like that. Right. Right. The conversation was already brought up before. Like, why are there no black leaders? Right. Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, we already know.
01:12:21
Speaker
Right. Yeah. At that point, if he is one of those figures at that point, if he is like throwing in the towel in terms of seeing himself as a white person. Right. just That's what's going to happen. Right. So it's like,
01:12:33
Speaker
I think like logically it makes sense. Right. But then also like it does kind of lean into those things where it's like, is Warren Beatty the person to be telling the story? Is he telling the story the exact right way? is he as aware of these things, you know, vis-a-vis the KFC thing? Yeah. Yes. or Like that that's, that's like where I'm coming at it from where like, yeah, it's imperfect. But at the same time, i appreciate that he's making, he's calling out the right people, you know, right. so Going after like the the forces that divide.
01:13:04
Speaker
That's my thing. It's like, I don't I would rather you just do it. Like if you if you feel this way, just say it, even if you it may be imperfect and you might make some mistakes along the way. Like it's oh like we got to be better about just like not just hating everything because of a little drop of nonsense. You know what I'm saying? Like. Right. Sometimes people are just going to get it completely right, but their heart is in the right place and they're saying they're still saying these things that need to be said. So, you know, I'll take it. Like, I love it I think that's awesome.
01:13:38
Speaker
you know This movie is an argument against leftist infighting and leftist piracy test. Yeah. I can see that. This guy is imperfect, but God damn it, he gets results. And I think making him a martyr, it kind of enshrines it and protects him. Because like the I think the movie is aware of his hypocrisy. Like I talked about the wall of the black leaders on, you know, in in his study at at his office at the beginning. But then also...
01:14:05
Speaker
it this is ultimately about his ego because it's not that him wanting to make a difference is what makes him decide to live it be a kind of but I think it's more just it feels good to him to finally say this shit and have berries yeah gonna die I just yeah like the moments where he's like looking at her from across the room because yes, he he just like kind of like goes cross idle. He's just like, yeah, it's so good. It's so good. Like you said, it's so well directed, like the the pacing and when he decides to separate them and the way that the camera is when they look at each other, it's just so it's
01:14:43
Speaker
Even though I don't believe in the love between them or anything, it's still very powerful. You know, like you do get lost in the sauce with them i I think it's so good. Like, it's the things that need to happen for it to make sense. and i'm saying Right. But it's like, if if you know how to make those things work, if you are a good filmmaker, filmmaker, those beats, you know, like,
01:15:07
Speaker
off to the races. So many people try to do these things and play it straight and they fail. And I think that it's because this film embraces the absurdity, knows how crazy it is in theory and in execution, but because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel ashamed of that. It just feels like that's a part of the fabric. Yeah.
01:15:24
Speaker
Right. It's why it's a more respectable film than like even like a Tropic Thunder, you know, which I would honestly compare this to. You know, that film is also trying to have similar kinds of commentary for the modern era at the time, but it does it in a way that feels a lot more sloppy. It feels more so for the shock value rather than the commentary. And instead, it's got a point to say, and it does so effectively.
01:15:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because tropics the difference in Tropic Thunder is is just trying to... like Not that it doesn't have a thing it's it's trying to say about about that moment, but its main goal is just to be funny and be... Be funny, exactly.
01:16:00
Speaker
Like, this is trying to be funny, but it's also, like, the message is just as important, if not more, than the human truth. And I think Tropic Thunder also has, like, that whole moment where...
01:16:11
Speaker
um the actual black character like calls robert downey jr out and everything that he does which is to me it just feels like a cop-out because it's like now and in bulwark he's just doing this stuff but now it's like you gotta preach at us to make sure that we know that it's bad that he's pretending to be black and it's just like we do that like we know yeah like you don't have to some credit yeah exactly we're not stupid like we We don't have to do that. But I guess, you know, that's why I feel like they felt more scared with Tropic Thunder than with a movie like Bulwars, where they're just like, we're just going to let him act this way. and Nobody's going to really do anything. So it's cool. Like, it's just feel it feels way more loose and lively, you know?
01:16:57
Speaker
Well, like what you're speaking to there, right? Like the idea that like a black character in Tropic Thunder has to say that, though we already know how bad that is. It's insulting, right? And at
Comparisons with Other Political Films
01:17:08
Speaker
that point it becomes, it's not so much for like, you know, oh, don't worry, black audience, we know. yeah i said Instead, that's actually ah letting the a white audience know, like, oh, did you remember? did Yeah, yeah. even Consider this, you know? Yeah, exactly. Instead, in in this movie, it doesn't do a talking down. No. It's because it's coming at this not from a position of race first, necessarily. Yes, no. it it It certainly gets its feet ah muddy in terms of that, but it it is coming from this from a class conscious perspective. Class, yeah, so exactly. who
01:17:43
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and when he is talking down, he gets called on it like that. Exactly. So like, like, yeah, he's checking itself. But it yeah doesn't feel like a cheat, like the tropic. Exactly. Exactly. Is Warren Beatty the first white boy to successfully sit down and listen?
01:18:02
Speaker
yeah That might be true. I don't think they've ever sat actually sat down and listened. He literally sits down and listens to John Pindle. Yeah, he does. yeah and then he wraps his way out he's like it takes his car and takes his car yeah absolutely wild move and i love don she's reaction to that is they all get their guns he's like all right let's get ready to get on the news like i'm like yeah it's a fun way to say let's let's go a set kill a senator yeah
01:18:32
Speaker
that is a good line also love that don cito has like an ulcer or something like he has to constantly hotchack It's just a nice little character to me. Don Cheadle is playing this great because like Don Cheadle doesn't feel like a gangster or crime lord. No. He's got more dweeb energy to me. and ah But at the same time, he's playing it kind of almost like a career character. Right. He's a businessman. Yeah. yeah Yeah. Like, come on, man. Like you're like, you got to think about my bottom line here. Right. Like that's the way he's talking about having like child soldiers. on the Yeah. You know, like, and that's kind of awesome in my eyes that he's paying in that way.
01:19:14
Speaker
And then also the fact that he is radicalized. the idea Yes. You know, like it's this again, the idea of an imperfect messenger of this person. You know, we may not agree with his methods. We may like the way that he is, like he's doing these things, but he's saying the right thing. So that's what ultimately pushes him through. I think that that's ultimately the driving force in politics. I think that that's actually something that most people don't.
01:19:39
Speaker
don't think about consciously, but it's like when you really but bring it down to it, right? Think about why people voted for Trump in the first place, right? People talk ah talk about voting for Trump and they say affordability and they say no new wars, right? Yeah. And look at how stupid they look now, right? Because they don't understand what a conservative platform is, right? Yes. So it's like, It's it's one of those situations where it's just basic understanding of the messaging.
01:20:04
Speaker
Yeah. That that was still talking to those basic needs and meeting those needs. That that was what was the the thing that pushed it forward. And I think that Bullworth is calling that out way back in the 90s. Yeah.
01:20:15
Speaker
Yeah. We knew this. What he say that we all have to fuck each other until we're the same race? Until the same color. Yeah. Which I've heard of. I've heard that so many times, but was the first time I heard it in a movie. I was like, wait minute. I can't believe they put that in. Maybe they're getting it from Bulwur. Yeah, maybe it came from Bulwur. I don't know. Procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just got to keep fucking everybody till they all the same. That's one of those moments where I want the live Cornel West cam, you know. And he's cheering. Yeah, he loves it. That's what they were kind of doing Zion in, uh,
01:20:53
Speaker
oh um that's what they were kind of doing in zion in ah in the matrix. I think they were working out, working towards that. i mean, that was, they'd have all that was the idea. Yeah. she didn' That was the, uh, their original operator, right. Uh, the, the guy who was like Tommy Chong's son, I forget. Yeah. But like, cause he was home. They said like, he doesn't have plugs cause he was like born. Right.
01:21:19
Speaker
And he looks like, you know, you don't know what he is. everything Exactly. I love that we brought up the Matrix like dozens of times on this podcast. Like, like the Matrix rules, right? Yeah, it's great. And it's my favorite movie. So I'll find a way to connect the dots. if there is good and No, I feel like I wouldn't have it any other way.
01:21:38
Speaker
It's an anti-capitalist text. It's like it's about the same stuff. I mean, we're just saying you're going to get shot for talking like that. And then the Matrix is like, you got to kill a lot of cops. There's so many. You just got to like in with a bunch of guys. Well, at least Woolworth didn't get hit with the Columbine, you know. Oh, my goodness. Yes.
01:22:00
Speaker
It's ridiculous. It might have inspired some people to rap, which could be more dangerous. wish it was a problem. Inspiring white people to rap. I have to say, like, like that when he's doing his rapping, it's like that is what it feels like when people are like, all right, now you rap to me. And I'm like, I'm not doing this, you know, like, No. we believe don ask me to do that because I know I'll sound like Bullworth you know like like like i that's that's not something I gotta to do and um that is funny that it there wasn't was it I would think that more I guess they weren't going to watch this but like more politicians would have took that approach and like maybe we should start rapping like we should make sure make some more videos to connect with the youth you know
01:22:47
Speaker
I like the line that Oliver Platt has where he just sits down and he goes, now he's rhyming. He's rhyming now. You know, like I'm very disconcerted about this. yeah Yes, that's right.
01:22:59
Speaker
Like this, this is like the scariest thing he's ever seen. Yeah, that was the bridge too far. I love that he says rhyming in that rapping. Yeah. He's not rapping. He is indeed rhyming. It's true.
01:23:15
Speaker
He's very like, ah you know, like the the early, early rap, you know, like. Exactly. Very early. Like, yeah rappers delight. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to rhyme now or you can just like Eminem taught us in the song song Venom that he did for the movie Venom. that yeah You can
Racial Themes and Satirical Education
01:23:33
Speaker
rhyme Venom with adrenaline and then you can rhyme adrenaline with adrenaline. He says. Yeah.
01:23:41
Speaker
i I still love ah that's an awfully hot coffee pot. Should I put it on Donald Trump's head? Probably not. Not yet. An innovator.
01:23:51
Speaker
Yeah. I say, like, you know how people recite prayers before they go to sleep? die Yeah. iris That's what you do. Yeah. and Yeah, I was to say by default, though, he's still probably like top five white rapper. Better than Macklemore, probably. Yeah, better than Asher Roth.
01:24:13
Speaker
Yes. He's not better than Tom Green. I think Tom Green. Okay. Yeah. yeah The question is, here's the delineation factor. Is Bullworth a better rapper than Mac Miller?
01:24:27
Speaker
I was just, but that's who I was thinking of. and Cause he's like the bar, I think that you got to get over. don't know. That's the Bullworth Macklemore. I'm sorry. No, I said Macklemore. I just mixed them up. Fucking Mac Miller. yeah why why is the Why are there so many white rappers named Mac?
01:24:47
Speaker
That's an issue. yeah Because it's easy. This movie, The Mac. Yeah, meant The Mac. They're Mac-ing. And I like how the entry says The Mac, you know, like, that which is a famous Blacksploitation movie, The Mac, the right by the marquee. Yes, yes. And Blackula. And Blackula, yeah. I was hoping they would go watch it. I really wanted to. I wanted to see some of an that. i'm like oh I want to see Warren Beatty come out, you know. Yeah.
01:25:11
Speaker
Because you're like, that's probably a more comfortable reference point for black culture for him. is like yes From that time. But it's almost like he's acknowledging his weaknesses, whereas Tarantino will be like, all of my black culture comes exploitation films. And I think that's cool. Cool. I think that's fucking so cool, man. Actually, that's like, I feel like that's a great reference point there. Cause like Warren Beatty says the N word, Tarantino says the N word. I feel like. Which one am I more upset at? Tarantino. Exactly. Right. Cause that, that feels almost hateful. Right. Like, why did you do that? Right. I'm so caught up in the movie and the character and the message of the thing that I'm not thinking about it in a Tarantino scene. I'm thinking about this man wants to really say this. In this movie, I feel like they're really trying to thread the needle. They're like, how can we do this? Yeah, right, right, right. And I don't think they do it. But at the same time, I'm like, I see. But they make him look stupid enough that it works. I don't know. He's just so out. Yeah. He's just so out of it.
01:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. it's something. Yeah, it is like, I don't know. Like, as soon the movie starts, I'm i'm like, okay. Warren is going to say the N-word some point. Like, i just I just know he's got to do it. so I'm glad they got it out the way kind of early. but and he's just, it's like he just...
01:26:37
Speaker
He's newly born as this like oaf that is absorbing all the black culture. And somebody said it to him first. And that's why he he parroted it back. So I think I think when I think about it that way, it's not as offensive, even though still it's like we don't need this. But he's not will willfully stealing it. Kind of like how Baz Luhrmann's Elvis is like, no, Elvis was just the he he was black, basically. So yeah. This his culture too, right? three
01:27:13
Speaker
I like the scene that comes right after that, which is like when he goes up and he starts to smoke the blunt. yeah Yes. and And I love the little like little like hip thing that yeah he does when he's like smoking on the blunt. Like Warren Beatty is surprisingly a great comedic actor. like Really good. Yeah. Like Ishtar certainly is a good comedic performance from him as well. But like this might be his funniest performance in my house He's hilarious. I also like if Havoc can hit with us, he might be funnier in this. Yeah.
01:27:43
Speaker
Yeah. That's true. Yeah. it's It's a really funny movie, a really thorny movie, but, ah you know, ah Like when I first watched it, I didn't like it as much as I did coming back this time. Like I kind of came into this kind of being like, oh, we're going to like, you know, laugh about it a little, you know, but but like kind of revisiting it and like obviously like hopping back on. Like I feel like this is a lot more of and um not important in the sense of like put it in the schools, you know? Yeah. Like important. I mean important in the sense of like, you know,
01:28:18
Speaker
people want to be politically literate. People want to be socially conscious. I feel like this strikes a lot of the nails on the head that a lot people are thinking about right now. Yeah. And it's a good intro, I think, like, especially if you can do it while making people laugh. and And I feel like that stuff always sticks in my mind easier when I'm like having a good time. And then and then I hear like some truth, a truth bomb in there. I'm like, OK, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like it's It does feel, i mean, like you said, it's not capital I important, but it's like, this is good to get in front of people, you know, we can, you know, let's get, you know, get people to start thinking about this stuff a little bit.
01:28:57
Speaker
But it is bolder than a lot of other capital I important movies. Oh, yeah. Like, so like, like, and that's true. Yeah, very radical. absolutely Yeah, that's true. Scenes we want to highlight or share our shout out. I mean, just like it it's I i don't.
01:29:13
Speaker
Like, yeah yeah, it's not a perfect movie, but I'm never like bored at any moment. No, that's so true. Yeah. and You see, the pacing is all over the place, too, because like like we said, it is kind of a hangout for a long period, even when like the stakes should be life or death. But they're not playing that the whole time. We keep cutting to like what we find out is like a like paparazzi guy. but like they're playing it like he's an assassin. Yeah. And so it's supposed to be like, you know, like the creeper, the killer stalking him and yeah like ratcheting up the tension from that. But like ah we never, I don't know. I'm not, even if I kind of have the feeling that, yeah, maybe he will die at the end. We're not playing like the stakes. up That's only really only played for last as he like jumps around, like when he's like, or he'll pick up his pace randomly. Like it's really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:30:03
Speaker
ah like visual gooks or like his behind the scenes playing that those moments. Yeah. You definitely don't feel scared. i mean, I never felt scared. I never was worried that he was actually going to get killed by that guy. And I did i really liked the scene that and we keep talking about the club scene, but I loved when he was dancing with Halle Berry. I thought it was incredibly dynamic. I was like, this is like an MTV music video. They should have put this on every screen in America. i think it's
01:30:34
Speaker
i think it's so incredible. I get a superstar was a hit, you know? Yeah, it's so good. I just love the tongue thing that they're doing. as Oh my goodness. Yes. She's flicking her tongue. Yeah. oh that's just perfect.
01:30:48
Speaker
What were they? One. I love it. I just feel like they were just like, keep the cameras going. Like we're just not, we're not going to cut here. We're just going to vibe out as much as we can.
01:30:59
Speaker
um that he does call off the hit midway through. yeah And it's, the guy just has like a heart attack, but he's like, in know, insane something he sends his one guy there to be like, okay, so wait, yeah, wait, be there when he wakes up. So you can find out if he if he calls it off and yeah, they are trying to make it look like that. He's calling that paparazzi guy that's been been stalking. Right. It's, it's Halle Berry. It's just Halle Berry. I never thought,
01:31:28
Speaker
she was going to do it either. That's what I mean. like i'm not worried about any of those like visible threats. When we see Servino towards the end, like, yeah, that's probably he's probably like not happy about all that's happening. i didn't I didn't think he was going to personally himself. Do it, yeah. Me either. That's what shocked me. He's like, why is
Film's Lasting Impact and Societal Commentary
01:31:49
Speaker
Big Pauly do doing the hit himself?
01:31:54
Speaker
ah Big Pharma, you have good... Exactly. people are gonna know you like and they all immediately pointed it out to like where the shot came from oh goodness suddenly not like he can move like a ghost that he's like suddenly just like not just out yeah he's light on his feet and right that as yeah yeah i wish i would i really do wish i would have saw this as a kid because i would have i would have learned so much so much sooner i would have got woke a lot faster if i saw it
01:32:27
Speaker
As a child, I think, like, it really does teach you teach you a lot, you know. It just puts things on your mind, which I always like a movie to do. It wouldn't be on my mind that early. because No, exactly. I wouldn't be looking out. Yeah. The idea that radicalized me, I feel like the political nature of the... I 100% the first time watching Make-A-Share, I'm like, this is just this tight. Like, they're using... is just awesome yet but yeah I'm not thinking about like yeah the anti-capitalist part of it but yeah maybe like around 2001 when I first started playing Metal Gear Solid and the
01:33:07
Speaker
Now you saw three changes, people. welcome yeah ah two I started with two. that's the one that came out in 2001. And that's like, oh, the government manipulates media. right, right, right. Around that time, the government was manipulating media. life they're Like, wow, this is crazy.
01:33:24
Speaker
This is on point. It's a war. And they talked about proxy wars. Yes. Oh, my goodness. Project wars. Imagine that.
01:33:36
Speaker
concept this This film largely works in like the fable, you know, ah the myth. 100%. And I think that that's why a lot of it can work because we're, we, us as an audience, we know not to take it so seriously. Seriously. It is a satire to a degree where it's able to play with these things.
01:33:56
Speaker
to a part where it doesn't feel like it's harmful. It doesn't feel like it's contributing to, you know, ah the same things that it's, you know, pointing out as cruelty. So ultimately that's where a lot of the film gets like high marks.
01:34:09
Speaker
um And, and when it comes to like these things that you guys are saying about, like, I wish this was more of a a woke awakening. I think that's kind of like the best kind of compliment you could say about a film was like perspective. all Like you're, you're kind of almost saying like, you know, this movie, you know,
01:34:25
Speaker
hit the nail on head. So yeah like i'm I'm glad you guys have that response, you know, um for for me, like I kind of came around on it. I can't, you know, I was almost like, what what are you doing here, Mr. Beatty? Because like, so like, i'm I'm thinking about all the other Beatty things that I've seen. And I'm like, you know, is this guy's is like heart in the right place, you know? And and now I'm like, yeah, no, no, this is great.
01:34:49
Speaker
Right. No, because, ah sorry. No, sorry, you go ahead it But it's like, I haven't seen that many baby movies. So like this really does like blow up my whole like perspective on him like I've only seen like Bonnie and Clyde parallax view shampoo like I all that stuff I've seen is like he's just like a hot like hot throb guy who's after women all the time like that's the way I've always thought of him and this is like oh wait a minute like he's got like stuff on his mind yeah that's so true he says it in the song yeah like he is a buffoon but we we we need you to know he does fuck yeah yeah yeah
01:35:27
Speaker
A lot. And that's okay because his wife does too. So it's all good. Yeah. I feel like there's a victim there, you know. Exactly. no But you're like, the press would not accept that. Although, I don't know how many. We don't know. yeah Nowadays. suppress Exactly.
01:35:48
Speaker
Confirmed sex criminals. So, you know, it's all good. hey I just like that he like like Bullworth himself would kind of be like ah almost like a Pete Buttigieg, you know, or like he's not even like, you know, like the top Democrat, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. died you know yeah yeah I could go on about it. Man, that would be great if Pete like became a real boy, like if he came online and and and and became a real person. Yeah. Is there rhyming? Yeah.
01:36:18
Speaker
Also, I love that, like, ah so so something about his rapping, this is very minute. I'm sorry. I know we're kind of rounding out this conversation, but ah I love that in his rapping, Warren Beatty as an actor has decided, like, how impassioned he's going to be with his rapping. So we were like, there are points where he stops rapping and starts speaking instead. and then he's back into rapping. And that's right. Other points where, like, he becomes Dr. Seuss and, like, he's, like, really enunciating what he's saying. Yes. I think all that stuff's actually really clever performance-wise. I think he's doing a good job.
01:36:53
Speaker
And it's hard to do. i don't like, he he keeps coming in and out of a cadence, which is like, even for like a regular rapper, like that's not easy to switch up your flow and and make it sound good and like get the get the message through. and like, it doesn't really sound good, but it's like, whoa, like he's actually like moving through some styles you know Look, he's got a goal. You know, he's really committed to socialism. Right. When he gets to that part, he's really good. you know Yeah. he yeah he Yeah. And like that obscenity, ah like, you know, rap that he does. It's like it's like slam poetry. Like he he starts turning into like Maya Angelou or something. I'm just like, whoa, slow down, white boy. Where'd you get that from? Yeah.
01:37:42
Speaker
I feel like she had to. If Cornell was, you know. Al Sharpton definitely watched this. Bucket of popcorn. over weekend like That's Al Sharpton. yeah Also, I just got to shout out John Witherspoon is the preacher at the black church. And it's just like, what the heck? He's here. And then but and then we don't see him again. But I'm just like, OK, that's great.
01:38:08
Speaker
So I mean, everyone in the 90s were important. Yeah, everybody. You brought up Michael Clark Duncan before. Yeah. i just I wanted to call out the fact that in the credits, he's credited as Michael Big Mike Duncan. Oh, nice.
01:38:24
Speaker
Nice. I just like the, i like in my mind, I almost imagine that's what Warren Beatty called him. a Big Mike. Yes, Big Mike. yeah Because when we called him out earlier. Doug, you called him out. like Like, he feels like Joe Biden, right? Like, yeah.
01:38:40
Speaker
Spiritually. Spiritually, for sure. Yeah, I mean, when he's up on stage and, you know, he starts, like, looking off into the distance and you're... what he's about to do yeah except this he becomes lucid and so really I think Biden needed less sleep he needed to get more tired he could lock in yeah he was like a little too lucid so like if yeah we just like sleep deprived him needed to talk about NATO more you know oh imagine if there was a corn pop story in this one you know yeah hell yeah yeah like this movie is one big corn pop story but But on the side of like, no not only was Corn Pop real, but Biden was on right side of this one. Yes, he was right.
01:39:30
Speaker
Oh, my God. Oh, man. Fuck Joe Biden. that Like, geez, Louise, what a clown. or do you think get into how How far do you you think he may get into this before he falls asleep? Bullworth?
01:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like he has a heart attack when the word socialism is on. Yes. yeah That would kill him. Yeah. It's hard to imagine him watching anything.
01:39:53
Speaker
and
Oscars and Film Industry Observations
01:39:54
Speaker
yeah It'd be like that sequence in Monty Python, the Holy Grail, where it's like, and then the writer heard it and he died, you know, like his heart stops and he falls back, you know, watching this movie like 30 minutes in, you know, reads the opening title card. He's that's too much for him. Yeah. like like like well Something that's always interesting with each presidency is like what movies they play there, what movies they host. And one thing that I'll never forget is the fact that Joe Biden hosted the Flamy Hot Cheeto movie and at the White House.
01:40:27
Speaker
Oh, I did not know that. i never saw that. I mean, I missed that one. Academy Award nominated. Yes, it is. little sad you know Was it nominated for best song?
01:40:40
Speaker
Yes, indeed it was. diane Warren, she gets them in there. I feel like people always talk about... Sorry. No, I'm just looking at the cast for Flamin' Hot. It's strange. It's a strange movie.
01:40:54
Speaker
um But but like people always talk about, like oh Diane Warren, why doesn't it like have an Oscar? But then like nobody's talking about the fact that like she's been scamming that category for years. She's been patting the deck with movies that nobody's... Every time it's a movie that doesn't exist. I'm like, how is she doing that?
01:41:13
Speaker
Was the movie she was nominated for this year a movie about how she's always nominated and does the movie? I think that's what the was about. I'm not even joking. I think that's what... my God. Me neither. I didn't listen to it, but I just saw someone say that I took it as fast. Oh, my goodness. I feel like we've thoroughly mined Bullworth. Bullworth. Any, like, last thoughts? Like, I feel like.
01:41:43
Speaker
I don't know. Can't think about any on Bullworth. This is our first episode post the Oscars, though. How did you guys feel about it? I thought it was pretty good.
01:41:54
Speaker
I had a great time. yeah i had a wonderful time. I mean, it was a cool year, just like in terms of like who was. I agree. Mm F1, what are you doing there? Well, you know.
01:42:06
Speaker
As a ceremony, it was really exciting to watch because like sinners in one battle after another were kind of going blow for bull. Trading, yeah. Yeah. So like just like from a, you know, viewer standpoint, I like that, you know. um And then one battle after another winning, you know, like I think that's a great win.
01:42:22
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. and And I think that the jokes were good. My biggest complaint really is the same complaint I have every year, which is just let people speak.
01:42:33
Speaker
like what i mean, what is so hard about it? And then we give the the presenters all this time to say a bunch of am muck that they can't even get through. They're like the worst. Like I know, like you guys are professional actors, like just do like pretend that you're acting or something because like this is so hard for them like live television is so hard for them so it's like okay editing is magic that exactly it saves these people like they need it so bad a gordon e weaver god bless her soul she's struggling oh it was hard for her it was hard your scene partner was grogu so fuck him you know like i'm
01:43:10
Speaker
I like that you didn't even reference the guy that she was with. And yeah I'm realizing in this moment that I've forgotten who she was with. and yeah I think it's Pedro. Yeah. and that's Unfortunate for him. Because he came out with no facial hair. So was going say, nobody knows who he is. yeah who is who Who is this hairless man?
01:43:28
Speaker
yeah It's like when you see a hairless cat, you're like, that's a creature. Yeah.
01:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, and then had Downey, you had RDJ and Chris Evans. That was just, it was so awful. I wanted to, like, leave. I was like, I gotta, like, get out of here. That was like the Emilia Perez, like, win with them singing. I was just like, please stop. You can feel the oxygen just... Yes, everybody's like... On track of how many Doomsday ticket pre-orders. Oh my goodness, yes. During that time.
01:44:00
Speaker
um my My favorite part is like they come out and they're introducing this this category there and Chris Evans is just like, well, ah Robert Downey, didn't you remember that I got you this gift to commemorate our 40-year anniversary working on the Avengers film? I'm like...
01:44:17
Speaker
Like, do I celebrate the 14th year anniversary? Exactly for anything? Yeah. What are you talking about? it makes me feel like nothing was written for them. and they're like they had Yeah.
01:44:30
Speaker
and and it feels like it And like every year they always bring out the Marvel people. They always will have a moment. They got to. Here's Captain America, whatever. Right. This was the first year that like they came out and it felt like everybody was like, get the fuck off. Yes. without Yeah. energy That was there. um and And also ah with within in terms of the energy within the crowd, I felt like the crowd was a lot better. Yeah. which Yeah. Yeah. Like it just felt like they reacted to things better.
01:44:58
Speaker
Yeah. Well, Conan's just really funny. I mean, I'm a like a Conan stan. So like, I can't really, I can't be objective about it. But he's just a funny guy. yeah He really like, involves you, you know, you feel like, I know, it always feels like he really wants you to laugh so but it's great I was trying to put my finger on it before, but I think I i know what it is now. I think that he's taken what Billy Crystal did. And I think that he's like just given it a bit more of his own. and his Yeah, exactly. Because Billy Crystal's a little too sanitized and then like out of touch in bizarre ways. And yeah Conan O'Brien, he knows where to straddle that line a bit more. So just also like on the note of like, you know,
01:45:41
Speaker
our general thoughts on the Oscars. Like, Doug and I, we've got a long history of talking about the movie Weapons, you know? Just have to say, like, total weapons vindication. Yeah. It's been cemented in the league, like, movie history. Mm-hmm.
01:45:56
Speaker
Intuitively. Yes. Especially with that Oscars. Yeah. Very happy. Very happy for that for them. Tiana should have won, though. I agree. You know, that's what I would have picked. But, you know, like I can't be mad at Amy winning. Like, and especially like I loved her speech and she's just is so winning. She's obviously such like a nice person. And like Gladys is an amazing performance. I'm sorry. Like, that's the thing I remember most from that movie.
01:46:22
Speaker
It's the truth. Yeah. No, I was saying like even the winners that I wouldn't have picked, I'm pretty OK for the most part. I mean, I yeah wish I wish it was just an accident. Didn't walk away empty handed. true Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and also je yeah i That hurt.
01:46:38
Speaker
ah And then also best actress. I would have given it to Rose Byrne. I mean, Rose Byrne. Yeah. hmm. Like I said it before as well, like ah if I had legs, I'd kick you like is like is better than any of the movies that how my back into I still think about that movie. like It's Yeah.
01:46:59
Speaker
Like, it's just ah just an amazing movie. What can I say? ah the the one thing also I also wanted to say on, it was just an accident. I still seen that movie, but I'm calling it now. Jafar Panahi will get a Best Picture win. He will get a a director win within his lifetime.
01:47:14
Speaker
He is on the track for in eyes. I kind assumed for the narrative that they would maybe give it to, I think, didn't... Did another ah iran Iranian filmmaker win in like a documentary? Oh, like like there's been several like amazing Iranian filmmakers throughout history. No, no, I mean, this award's won. I mean, like this year, wasn't there another filmmaker of besides him that maybe was at least nominated? I don't remember if they they won. i remember. I don't remember specifically, ah to be honest with you. Like this this year with the Oscars, I was a little more tapped out than usual. Like usually I do ballots, like I like mark everything. i didn't do that, you know? And there were key movies I didn't watch. Like I didn't catch Hamnet. I didn't catch that value.
01:47:58
Speaker
i I still haven't seen Hamnet. i But I still feel qualified to say that it's Roseburg. Like I know, come on. I put like Jesse Buckley in the same field as like Claire Foy.
01:48:11
Speaker
Right. or You know, like they're they're always like kind of overlooked in a way. So like for Jesse Buckley to win was cool in that sense. Yeah. like I'm like, oh, that's a cool. Yeah, exactly. Right. But Rose Byrne delivered the better performance in my eyes because like how could any like that was a woman under the influence in my eyes. Yeah.
01:48:29
Speaker
Approach. Yeah. yeah What else with the Oscars? There was no slap this year. it it's been It's been four years of his tenure. but Wow. Is it 10 years still? Yeah, it is 10 years. They should just rescind it after That's what I'm saying. Just be like, come on, man.
01:48:49
Speaker
Yeah, but let him come back. Like, you like, separate from like how big that event was or like how dangerous it was, like, it's the best thing to ever happen. I know.
01:49:01
Speaker
They needed that so bad. Yeah. And imagine like the Oscars where you could be like, this is the first year that Will Smith is back. Yeah. Everyone's watching because you're like, whoa, shit. What's what's he going to do? yeah And then sits he gets up on stage and he goes, ah Jaden Smith has a new album.
01:49:21
Speaker
Richard Williams was a fierce defender of family. Oh my goodness. I love that like social media terror that they did when like they were on like Facebook videos. Right. And you had like Will Smith crying, like talking to Jada. Like, I don't know what's going on in that family, but I guess you tell that nobody is doing anything right. There was weird stuff before that. That's when he was having quote on the like press circuit for King Richard where he was saying shit like, yeah, I had so much sex that it's giving me a gag reflex. yeah yeah and that's excuse excuse me sir this is a Wendy like what was the quote yeah oh we were talking about your boobie
01:50:00
Speaker
and
01:50:05
Speaker
I thought uh well when was the first time a woman won best cinema cinematography which was like oh my god like that's crazy first you're like exactly in my life like I'm a young person okay like why is this stuff happening like you could actually feel in the room as people were realizing like yes like who were going like oh they won and then going and it's like oh this um it's like a very big deal like something's happening guys and it's a woman of color like whoa you know Sinners which is also just yeah a beautiful movie yes one for that too like yeah it's incredible
01:50:48
Speaker
I was worried it was going to get a lot of noms and then kind of get shut out. i was still Me too. that was what i That's what I thought was going to happen for sure. I thought the Academy was like, let's give them a bunch of nominations so everybody will shut up and we're not going to give them anything. yeah But it did not go that way. Thank God. I i assumed it was going to be the genre bias and it's just, yes you know? so Yes, it's very black. The combination of those two things, is you that's like two strikes. You're out. Yes, exactly.
01:51:16
Speaker
What I did like was that even though that like one battle after another won, you know, and that deflates a lot of what happened with Sinners, right? I didn't feel as though what the Academy was doing by having this kind of like Sinners and one battle after another kind of blow for blow. I think what they were doing in structuring it that way was that they eventually essentially put Ryan Coogler and Piled Thomas Anderson on the same level. Right. I really liked that because they both walked away with Oscars. They both. Right. Right. And there's like a bunch of pictures of them together. Like it it feels like everybody won that night, even though he took away, he got the best picture win. It still feels like Cougar's right there with PTA of all people. You know, it's, it's very incredible. ah incredible
01:52:01
Speaker
If it were up to me, he would have won Best Picture for Creed. like me
Action Films and Political Satires
01:52:05
Speaker
I've not seen that. Yeah, I gotta watch that. I know. and I want to watch all the other Rockies first before I watch it. You do get a little more from it, but honestly, straight up, it's better than all that. I know it is. I know it is.
01:52:21
Speaker
It easily the best Rocky movie, but all of the other Rocky movies are Rocky 4. I love it. I always hear about Rocky 4. Yeah. It's entirely a montage. Yeah, that's what I hear.
01:52:33
Speaker
um I just want to do a day where I just watch all of them. Like, I want to get it all. I want to get each hit. Because i I've seen the first one, which I really like, but i i just haven't seen the rest of them. Yeah.
01:52:45
Speaker
I'm calling it now. I would love to hear Cosmo's take on the fifth movie. I feel like we get a lot out of the fifth movies. Okay. I'm very excited for this. though I want to see it. We do every Stallone. Every Stallone? I don't know. Oh, my God. ah can Can we talk about his unproduced Edgar Allan Poe biography that he wanted to do I'm sorry. What? He was? So so so I'm trying to dropping this on you guys for fun a little bit. But he he had the script where he wanted to play Edgar Allan Poe and then direct it. It was kind of like the kind of dream project had after Rocky. He tried to make it for decades and it just never happened. You can read the scripts like you could read about like all of it. Wow. Yeah. I'm trying to imagine.
01:53:35
Speaker
Okay. What I will say, right, is that Stallone did have a good take. Like, he stands Edgar Allan Poe. and and and And Stallone of the 80s and 70s is a different Stallone from Stallone. Right, than now. Yeah.
01:53:48
Speaker
I think he's a good writer. I mean, at least with Rocky. I think it's like a really well-written movie. Like, i think and and I think it's beautiful. So i I wouldn't be surprised that he could, you know, he could do it.
01:54:00
Speaker
That's just, I didn't know he had an interest in Edgar Allan Poe like that. Yeah. Yeah. I always took more to like in the comparison between the two, like Arnold and always interested me more because he had seemed to pick more interesting projects in terms, at least for a stretch, like, and like up through like the maybe early 90s or something. But, but, yeah oh, what the the the directors he's choosing to work with too. Like, this is interesting that right give himself over to these guys.
01:54:30
Speaker
Yeah. Arnold's definitely my guy. Like, I got a whole wall covered in Arnold VHS. It's because that's what that's my dude. Absolutely. Usually, there's another idea to the movie. So, because it's not just like Predator's not just like an Arnold vehicle. It's just like a groundbreaking, like, action sci-fi movie. And then, like, other stuff like that, like Terminator, is there's other stuff going on where I feel like a lot of Stallone movies do fall into the, like, this guy's queer. Yeah. Just one thing. Yeah. he Yes. see
01:55:01
Speaker
Cosimo, as an Arnold Schwarzenegger aficionado, right? yeah Before I ask you this question, I have to ask you the question, have you seen Shoot'em Up? And I think you have, right? No, haven't. Oh, wait, wait. What's Shoot'em Up?
01:55:13
Speaker
What's Shoot'em Up? I don't think so. 2007. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. yeah yes I definitely have. So I think that Shoot'em Up is the successor to Commando.
01:55:26
Speaker
Oh, yes. I see that. Yeah, i that that makes sense. I recently watched Commando for the first time because that's always been one of my Arnold blind spots. and It's amazing.
01:55:39
Speaker
and It's not what i thought it was going to be it's great yeah You remember the part where I said I was going to kill you last? I lied. It's so good. Wow. I should do a double feature and now with shoot him up in Commando because that's a very interesting idea. Yeah. It's that kind of like post ironic kind of like action of of the action movie. Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah when did when did Crank come out? Oh, 2006, I believe. so so of time and it's interesting because like, I feel like crank, i always cite as like that being, uh, Jason, uh, fucking, why am I blanking now? Uh, Jason Jason Oh, Christ, it's Jason Bourne.
01:56:24
Speaker
Jason Statham's version of Bugs Bunny, like he's playing Bugs Bunny in those movies. And then fucking yeah Clive Owen literally has a carrot. He like shoves it through yes like punches it through someone's bag back of their head and says, eat your vegetables. Yeah. yeah So much fun. When does Lucky Number Slevin come out? Is that 08 or or oh wait or that later? let me check because because i like i like you're recalling a time period that I think about often. Yes, sure. It was great.
01:56:57
Speaker
Okay. good Okay. Kansas City Shuffle. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Bruce Willis, Josh Harnett, Ben Kingsley, Morgan Freeman, Lucy Liu, Stanley Tucci. That's a proper cap. That was my movie.
01:57:12
Speaker
It's so ridiculous. but that that They were in their pocket with like the huge ensemble action movies, you know, like it was it was a fun time to be alive. Yeah. Smoking Aces as well. Yeah.
01:57:25
Speaker
Yeah. Good times. It wasn't a crazy ensemble and Smoking Aces. Yeah. yeah Well, now now we know what to talk about next time. ah Yeah. an Action ensemble. Yes. 2000s.
01:57:37
Speaker
I mean, you're the domino. Oh, domino. Yeah. Oh, Domino. That'd be good. Yeah. Richard Kelly. Yeah. I mean, yeah like I said at the top, I think this is if we're going to be doing like a lot of like a political like satires or kind of like end of America movies, like this, the Bullworth is like the great, a great start. So yeah, it is.
01:58:04
Speaker
And any any other ones you're interested in coming back on for, you know, like let us know because this is, yeah, that this is this was a really good pick. I'm glad. Yeah. Yeah, no, this is, it's so much fun when I get to watch a movie that's like,
01:58:17
Speaker
good out the gate you know like I was I was already like into it I was like oh okay yeah because i really I mean it's really worrisome looking at that case I just did not know what I was watching and be dealing with but I was like it it had me from go so I'm so happy like I got a a new favorite movie like I feel like I gotta like share this with people like I need everybody to watch Bullwark Wow, that's awesome.
01:58:40
Speaker
Yeah, I do. I'm going to start posting clips of it a lot. I feel like yeah just the soundtrack is enough to like win people. That's what have been the hook for real. Yeah, as a kid, besides like the politically activating part, I would have had good enough music. I was usually like that movie is good. This movie actually good. But like if the movie ah there's shit like Ghostbusters 2 because it had a good soundtrack. I'm like, well, it's got one DMC on and like Bob Brown. So this movie's good. be good.
01:59:12
Speaker
I don't want to crack into this movie too much because I feel like we're routing it out. But there's two things I want to bring up. First off, Ennio Morricone did a score. Yes. Yes. It's so insane. So like, because I know you guys are relatively new to this movie, you may not know this, right? So I'm just to throw out there. So Ennio Morricone wrote 50 minutes worth of score for this movie. 10 minutes of score was used in this movie. He threw out the rest of the score to just use the rap music. Right. That was better suited for this one, right? Yeah. The right choice. It was the right choice. And actually on that note, I think that the best confluence of that idea is there's a car chase when you get that Eazy-E song. Then you get the orchestration that becomes integrated with it. Like that's when the movie works the best in my mind. when it's integrating like his old fashioned sensibilities with the, you know, hip hop, with the political intrigue. I think that that's actually when the movie's working its best, when it's kind of like be able to mix all those things together. It's when it feels all desperate that maybe that falls apart a little bit. But regardless, I think that the thing that we're all saying here is that like, it is consistently hitting those marks enough. Yeah. It's an easy recommend.
02:00:29
Speaker
Yeah. And that's a i just also got to say, that's a dope stunt, too. I was not expecting um the cool like the the driving with that limo and the turns he was making. i was like, oh, we got like a little bit of like an action movie going on right now. It was dope.
02:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, i thought it was just going to be a comedy. I wasn't expecting it.
02:00:49
Speaker
and And it's simple because it's like a limo driving and against traffic and then a projection. Like it's yeah simple filmmaking tricks that have been since the 50s that he's doing in this movie. And we don't think about it. We're just like. no Yeah. Yeah. It's good.
02:01:07
Speaker
The movies just used to look like movies. I mean, I know it's overspin, but it's just like. Yeah. Another trap card. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know shot this movie? like oh So let me get his name, actually, because this this is insane, who shot this movie.
02:01:22
Speaker
So, ah okay, so Bullworth was shot by pulling it up, good cause Because like this this is ah a historically important cinematographer. Yeah. Okay. ah Let me pull him up. There he is. Vittorio Storaro. Okay. I believe if I'm saying that correctly. He is the
Revisiting Bullworth and Warren Beatty's Legacy
02:01:44
Speaker
cinematographer of Apocalypse Now. Oh, my God. He he is known for being like Francis Ford Coppola's guy. became warren baty's guy and then unfortunately He became became post-cancellation Woody Allen's guy. Yeah.
02:01:59
Speaker
He's done all of the Woody Allen movies like after Amazon dropped them. Yeah. That's a little. Oh, that's tough. That's tough.
02:02:13
Speaker
It looks great, though. Also did Ishtar. yeah Also did. I'll sing the praise of Ishtar. I mean, I'm just I love ah Elaine Mays. All Elaine Mays movies. heart Heartbreak Kids is one of my favorite movies of all time.
02:02:26
Speaker
And a one, two, three, four, two, two, three. I'm thinking about Ishtar now. Also, have you seen Ishtar? Oh, yes. Yeah, I have. And I enjoyed it a lot. i just get you it's what It's so weird when you hear about these movies and all you hear is bad, bad, bad. Like it was such a historic flop. and like Yeah, and that's all I know about it. Yeah, funny but it was it good yeah but it's like great. how Like it's funny. Like and it moves. Like what are we upset about?
02:02:56
Speaker
Charles Warren baby. So good. ah yeah. No, I'm so glad we talked about this movie in particular. Like this, this was just one of those things that like, I wasn't sure if I even wanted to return to this. like I was kind of just like, this, is this will be a good conversation, but like coming back to it, I was just like, so glad to come back to it with these eyes.
02:03:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad I picked it up. Cause I almost didn't. I was like, let me just take a picture of this. I don't really need this. Like, I'm not ah i'm not a big Warren Beatty person. So I'm like, yeah. But I was like, no, I'm going to bring this home because I'm just that intrigued. Yeah, like, I might be way more into it now. Especially because he directed this. Like, I don't know if I've seen any of his other, like, directed movies. So this might be the first one I saw.
02:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, so... It's really good. Maybe to round out this conversation, because we've talked about Warren Beatty, Warren Beatty. So we've talked about Dick Tracy, but do you guys know about the Dick Tracy TECM special?
02:03:56
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Yes, I do. He legally has to do something with it every whatever, or something amount of. Some years, yeah. it' it To maintain the rights, which bit which makes me think, I'm like, so he's sitting on, like, he has an idea that for something he wants to do, or he's just holding in his back pocket. Yeah. Just in case. but I'm like, does he have, like, old man Logan, but for Dick Tracy, even though he already was old. the old Yeah, he already.
02:04:23
Speaker
So it's just going to be old, old Dick Tracy. I think it's even better than that. I think he's just like so petty and just doesn't want anybody else to make a Dick Tracy movie. He's just like, I'm going to end a sentence.
02:04:35
Speaker
Yeah. and and And like, he's probably back shot like, you know, several. Wow. worth Yeah. I think Tracy's videos to put out. That's my opinion. It's just so funny that he wants it that bad. I mean, it's just like, it's a guy in a big yellow suit, but I mean, he loves it. It's like super weird. Yeah. It's funny that he's so obsessed with it. Yeah, but unlike every other like superhero or comic character, there's only one. you know like There's been multiple. yeah That's true. spider yeah there's There's one Dick Tracy.
02:05:06
Speaker
Yeah. Wire, yeah.
02:05:12
Speaker
Aaron Sorkin, by the way, related to Molly's Game. You know how Tobey Maguire is that character that Michael Cera is supposed to be playing? Oh, right. Yeah. I always love that fact about that movie. I just so like I can't remove that. Michael Cera is doing a great Tobey Maguire impression. and i Michael Cera should be in Warren Beatty's next movie.
02:05:33
Speaker
Tobey Maguire is kind of the new Warren Beatty in a way. You know, he's barely, um you know, yeah's not he's just not directing, you know, that's the. Yeah. Actually, you know what?
02:05:44
Speaker
I know who the new Warren Beatty is. And you guys were talking about all like if they were to do this today, I know exactly who would do this today. If we're going to imagine who would this would be. Jonah Hill. Oh, my God. Yeah.
02:05:59
Speaker
mid-90s, so it's I'm not familiar with it. That's a bad movie. my semester my video It's messed up. It didn't look very interesting. What do we think of his new movie coming out next month? that's that was that the oh that's his movie. didn't know it was his. Okay. Oh, right. I don't know. I don't know what to think about. He doesn't make anything I care about. i like Whenever I read what it's about, I'm like, I don't care about that.
02:06:29
Speaker
When I see Jonah Hill, i'm just like, get away from me. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Not one of my guys. Sorry. You know, I think he's great in Wolf of Wall Street, but grand I think that's just Scorsese.
02:06:41
Speaker
I think he's pretty funny in This Is The End. i mean, he's just playing a heel in that. Yeah. Like, yeah, this guy sucks, doesn't he? yeah um i think that ah I think that rounds it out, right?
02:06:53
Speaker
Yeah. yeah That's bulwark for you. yeah I'm going to rewatch this like a lot. like is Yeah, me too. Or just listen to the soundtrack. Absolutely.
02:07:04
Speaker
Go insane in the membrane. Yeah.
02:07:11
Speaker
I really need to hear Cosmo's radicalization through Reds. I feel like doesn' feel like if you really like this movie, you will love Reds. Yeah. Great movie.
02:07:21
Speaker
um and And I'm glad that we could come back to it with these eyes, you know, because I feel like we we had a lot of fun talking about it. Yeah. ah Admiring its absurdity while still appreciating the serious points that I was trying to make. Yeah.
02:07:36
Speaker
Yeah. Don't be surprised if you guys see me dress like Halle Berry. Like that might become my new persona. Yeah. It was great. It's out of this world. It's amazing.
02:07:49
Speaker
Yeah. Shout out to whoever did the costume. Costuming. yes Yeah. Yeah. Warren Beatty. with He's so tapped in. He's so tapped in. He's incredible. and I've been watching that MTV. You heard of Lauryn Hill, you know, that's him being like, do you know who he is? Yeah. just he didber in real Yeah. yeah That's what the viewers got to feel like at times, you know? like Yeah. Have you guys heard about this stuff?
02:08:21
Speaker
but Yeah. it does Exactly. It's that definitely that vibe. yeah and that's what I'm saying. It's all new to him. And he's just like, can you believe it? Can you believe this is all out there?
02:08:33
Speaker
Yeah. And we're excited for him. i Yeah. for him I love it. Yeah. I mean, you can follow me on Twitter at HeyCosmo.
02:08:44
Speaker
um But, you know, if you just want to hear some more silly takes that. e Good take. and You're a good follow. I heavily recommend. Yeah. So follow me on Twitter. Let's have some fun.
02:08:59
Speaker
I was saying to Doug, like, like i followed you when I had like zero followers, you know, and yes like absolutely one of the funniest people that like I am been able to be mutuals with this entire time, you know, so like I've just been so like ah happy to have you on the podcast, you know, to have these, this conversation. And then also I want to ask is like you, you like collect a lot of VHS tapes. This is something that the the audience should know too. Like, Yeah, I do. Buying VHS tapes. And I just want to know more about that. Like what's. Yes. was that
02:09:32
Speaker
Yeah. I'm i'm at 800 now. That was my VHS tape. Yeah. They're everywhere. There's only so many places you can put VHS tapes. But. The husband loves it. he Yeah. You know.
02:09:46
Speaker
He's like whatever you want. like I love it. He has one thing. You know. yeah exactly. me. He has his bionicles, so he can sit on those. That's equal. Exactly. Exactly. I got the history of cinema. He's got the history of Mata Nui or whatever.
02:10:10
Speaker
It's the mask, actually. Yeah. Okay, yeah. But yeah, I love my tapes. Oh, it's so much fun to have them. And it's like a work of art as well, because i have them displayed all over the place as well. So they're they're great.
02:10:25
Speaker
And it's just fun to get back into that that feeling of the crackling, you know, TV and everything. so Well, and there's just something about the, you know, because I'm like, I do understand the the ah value of wanting to preserve like the intentional um vision of like the director and the cinematographer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People who complained like, well, that that tape's been fader. That transfer's not like the same color. Yeah. like well Yeah, but I like the way that one looks. look So it's like. Yeah, like that.
02:10:54
Speaker
It's I mean, it's not like I won't watch it in another format. Like, I'm not saying that, you know, like, but I for me personally, this is where my heart and soul is when it's when it's this big and it's all staticky. Like, I love that. That just makes me feel good. And and that's OK. Yeah.
02:11:11
Speaker
I just like the colors on the open mat. Exactly. Yeah. what she was Important question. Were there any great advertisements before Bullworth on the VHS? No, I was so surprised. I don't know. i don't know they didn't put any on there, but i I played the tape from the very beginning. There's nothing before it. What is going on? yeah they were like, the movie speaks for itself. Advertisers were scared. Maybe. i Yeah, they probably were. And they're like, don't put our movie in front of that.
02:11:40
Speaker
but ni because that's one of the fun things about the tapes. It's like, you get to go back in the past and like, do it then it's like CD-ROMs and like video like old games that it pop up before. Yeah. And it's like, this one was like, nope, here's Bullworth.
02:11:54
Speaker
was like, okay. Well, it's a singular moment in and of itself. So I guess that's a pre-emptive. You're like, no, this happened. Yep. Bullworth is something that happens to you then. Yes, exactly. Yeah. That makes perfect sense. That's a great way to close it out.
02:12:11
Speaker
but That's about to be me before Bullworth and after Bullworth. Like I'm just a total new person. Yeah, BB and... Yeah, yeah exactly.
02:12:23
Speaker
It was great having you like Anything you want to plug? Me? Yeah, you do stuff.
Upcoming Features and Listener Engagement
02:12:30
Speaker
I do stuff, but like, yeah, both Doug and I, we do unsourceful radio sometimes, and this week we're going be doing Children of the Corn. We're going to be doing Children of the Corn movies. Oh, my God. Very exciting. Can't wait to do that. Honestly, I just love talking movies with Elvis. And that just sounds like a good time with me. We got that coming up.
02:12:56
Speaker
ah Two Cent Critics. It's actually going to be the two-year anniversary. They've been invited on to their anniversary show where we'll have all of the regular co-hosts. come We're going to have a big thing there. That'll be a lot of fun. Then in early April, there's going to be the Larry Fesson interview on In Films We Trust.
02:13:12
Speaker
And then ah ah Seeing Faces of Movies, the podcast with Felicia. Oh, yeah. Very excited to come back onto that podcast. We're be talking about Fritz Lang. Get ready for it. Oh, my guy. Yes. yes ah Very excited. yeah A lot of stuff going on. So, yeah, that's my plug area. ah Take it away, Doug.
02:13:31
Speaker
ah Yeah, I mean, i don't know. You can find me here, mostly. love Like Tony said, ah me and him are going to Elvis' show on Sourced Wall Radio. ah And you can follow Twitter at the Doug Files. But ah if anyone has, you know...
02:13:47
Speaker
um political satires or favorite, you know, like dystopian movies they want to see us like ah talk about this year, shoot us. I mean, you can DM me ah on on Twitter or wherever, but also ah you can email theseguysgodjuice at gmail.com. You know, or if you just have general comments or or so so something, we'll we'll we'll take that. I've, you know, I don't want blow up anyone's spot but I did get some good great feedback recently someone said that they they landed a date thanks to our weapons episode and that's true so we we brought we brought film fans together at an oscar party they had they had some he had something to talk about so yeah that's so it's all about that's ah hearing that I'm like so that's that's why we do this yeah that's nice just just like bulwark this this is about bringing people together right yeah
02:14:37
Speaker
Yeah, so just stay tuned here. Have a good night out.